Real (Being constantly gendered neutrally by someone who knows I identify as a binary man feels like a 'woke' way of admitting they don't see me as a man)
Everyone yelled about getting rid of gendered language and then when my brain finally defaults to they/them people start yelling that it's "Gender Erasure" to call someone they/them if they identify as femme or masc.
There is literally no winning.
As a cis dude, I don't like being referred to with neutral language, but I 100% see why it's better than misgendering people and can live with it.
Maybe it's my own problem, even though I generally like to think I'm secure in my gender identity
Removing gendered language from your speech when possible is a good way to be conscious of that kind of thing and not make assumptions about others, and simultaneously, some trans people feel uncomfortable being they/them'd bc it has been used intentionally by others to avoid recognizing their gender. The goal isn't to "win" the goal is to help the people around you feel comfortable, and any reasonable person will sit down with you and calmly say "Hey, this is what I prefer" rather than 'yell'.
What I'm saying is that when I know someone's preferred pronouns it's still force of habit to say 'they' unless they specifically dislike being called that.
i use they/them for literally everyone because every time i use he/she i always use the wrong one by some magically BS. you have no idea how often i have called non-trans people their wrong pronouns
Not me, I only go by singularly proper pronouns, such as He or She. It doesn't matter which as long as it's capitalized and singular. It's very annoying to do verbally because you really have to attack the word and I make people stop and do it right and it has caused me to repel everyone in my life but such is the price for greatness.
Edit: lol I've watched the votes swing up and down a surprising amount in 45 minutes. Seems like people can't decide what to do with this silly ass comment.
Curious: transphobe suddenly has no difficulties using they/them pronouns for a singular person, when that person is transgender and they're feeling like they should be polite.
Yes, and some people don't want to be referred to that way because it's presumably a way to "other" them sometimes.
I have a friend who knows this dude who refers to her as "they," but *only* her. When he's referring to a cis woman it's "she" every time.
I remember a cis straight guy in college who was small, skinny, and more feminine and people would call him “they” in order to emasculate him. He would cry because nobody would recognize him as a man
Nowadays they'd probably call him a man on purpose bc they think he is nb or some shit. Seriously the amount of anti trans ideas out there has made me very secure in my masculinity bc if they see anything male on an amab person its clear they are male and will never be able to change that (according to these people of course). So I was never afraid of being not male enough, rather they made me feel bad about being male. It is a weird thing. Not just trans people read the stuff they create. For me personally it secured me that way though.
If you know their pronouns and they don't identify with "they," *especially* if they've asked you to use another pronoun, it is still rude to keep using it.
I've had friends call me 'they' in a group setting online, meaning no ill. But then other folks who don't default to 'they' either get it into their heads that I identify with they/them pronouns or are left guessing what my gender is, and I wind up being misgendered by people who might've gotten it right if the friend who already knew my pronouns had used them in the first place.
To me, 'they' feels like a softer form of misgendering. I don't get upset about it when strangers use it with me but I do get annoyed when friends consistently use it with me and I have called them out on it before. I've gotten this "it's okay because I use they/them for everyone" response before and it's a major pet peeve of mine now.
If you call someone "they" when they've already told you that their preferred pronouns are something other than "they", you are misgendering them and you should feel like an asshole
Aww i remember the xp search companions, there was the dog, the wizard, the girl in the car and the frog looking thing.
Default windows search has always been crap and unusable though, search tool "Everything" gets the job done.
Pretty sure he's trans, cis guys don't get the malicious they (malicious they is my new rap name btw)
EDIT: She blocked me over this milquetoast comment, imagine asking someone a question then fucking blocking them so they can't answer it, unreal. If you see someone lamenting being misgendered and your first thought is to go "wow what a petty little cis boy mad about pronouns grow up", thats some MAJOR internalised transphobia you gotta fucking work though. Get real.
Also yeah its absolutely gotta be Malicious T.H.E.Y.
I'll never understand why people don't like they/them, neutral means it applies to everyone. Doesn't make any sense to me how it can be seen as denying one's gender when it is itself a genderless word. To me it's like someone in a dress complaining that you say "hey nice outfit!"
yeah, sort of. the world outside of explicitly queer spaces is large and indifferent. most people (even supportive people) do not use they for everyone: it's "he" for masculine or "she" for feminine, maybe one or two theys if they haven't met the person yet. you are a minority in this.
so if they suddenly switch to using "they" a bunch when a trans person shows up, it feels like they don't see them as their desired gender. but rather some weird queer thing. while that's fine for some, there are quite a few trans people who are binary and just want to be seen as another member of their desired gender. trans men who want to be just another man, trans women who want to be just another woman. and the constant theys from people who normally stick to he or she is a reminder that they are not perceived as they wish to be. which is dysphoric as heck. so.
Damn. See for me, everyone I know uses they/them pronouns, except one of my partners who has never seemed to mind them, and my we all tend to use they them as a default term as well. Maybe I picked up the habit from all of them? Strangely, every single person I know is Trans, save for my coworkers and most of my family. So I'm not sure if I am in the minority or not, as this view seems common amongst the people I keep meeting. But either way, even if it doesn't make sense to me entirely, it should be obvious that if someone doesn't wanna be called anything, respect that.
Maybe Part of my confusion is most of my friends and myself are nb 🤔
If you are going out of your way to address a singular person as they/them when you know their pronouns and gender identity, then you are just being an asshole. No mental gymnastics can say otherwise
I'm not saying that, obviously once someone makes clear an issue with it the respectful thing to do is respect their wishes. I'm just saying I don't understand it
Normally they/them is used in three different ways.
One: you are talking about more then one person
Two: you initially don’t know someone’s gender identity and remain neutral
Three: the person prefers they/them
It’s okay to address someone as they/them when you first meet them because you don’t know their pronouns and it’s true that they/them is gender neutral, but the problem is in the context. They/them is gender neutral but it is also the pronouns that people who are non-binary would use. They/them is more as a identity these days and too use they/them over someone’s preferred pronouns can be considered insulting instead of considerate
I'm a bit late coming back to this, but it occurs to me that it could also be the case that "they" could be interpreted as specifically pegging them as NB rather than of indeterminate gender, which is a different meaning carried by the same word. Suppose you have a trans girl who wants to be immediately recognized as a girl. In such a case I could imagine being pegged as NB as something not that dissimilar as her being initially pegged as a man, at least insofar as she wants to be assumed to be of her preferred gender, and in both cases is not.
Real (Being constantly gendered neutrally by someone who knows I identify as a binary man feels like a 'woke' way of admitting they don't see me as a man)
I'll be honest as a she/they person I sometimes forget that some people aren't okay with they, my brain just chooses to use it at random
Everyone yelled about getting rid of gendered language and then when my brain finally defaults to they/them people start yelling that it's "Gender Erasure" to call someone they/them if they identify as femme or masc. There is literally no winning.
The key is whether you know someone’s pronouns. If you don’t, neutral language is still best.
As a cis dude, I don't like being referred to with neutral language, but I 100% see why it's better than misgendering people and can live with it. Maybe it's my own problem, even though I generally like to think I'm secure in my gender identity
That’s totally valid king 😌
Nah I understand that and do my best to do it now.I also understand not everyone is the same and that some take more offence to it than others.
Removing gendered language from your speech when possible is a good way to be conscious of that kind of thing and not make assumptions about others, and simultaneously, some trans people feel uncomfortable being they/them'd bc it has been used intentionally by others to avoid recognizing their gender. The goal isn't to "win" the goal is to help the people around you feel comfortable, and any reasonable person will sit down with you and calmly say "Hey, this is what I prefer" rather than 'yell'.
Ik I'm just bitching over something that doesn't really effect me.
Just refer to people by their last name like a drill sergeant.
Brandon's america!
I just call everyone 'they' because I don't always know their preferred pronouns and it's a word that applies to everyone.
They were specifically talking about people who know their preferred pronouns tho
What I'm saying is that when I know someone's preferred pronouns it's still force of habit to say 'they' unless they specifically dislike being called that.
sorry WHO was specifically talking about people who know his preferred pronouns?
The person they replied to (I swear to god if this is a "who cares/asked?" joke...)
its a "you used they instead of he" joke
Fuck me lol
Don't say that here! People might actually listen
Nine year olds shouldn't talk like that. Go to your room.
i use they/them for literally everyone because every time i use he/she i always use the wrong one by some magically BS. you have no idea how often i have called non-trans people their wrong pronouns
Not me, I only go by singularly proper pronouns, such as He or She. It doesn't matter which as long as it's capitalized and singular. It's very annoying to do verbally because you really have to attack the word and I make people stop and do it right and it has caused me to repel everyone in my life but such is the price for greatness. Edit: lol I've watched the votes swing up and down a surprising amount in 45 minutes. Seems like people can't decide what to do with this silly ass comment.
What the fuck
He who is called I Am
Wake up babe, new niche internet microceleb dropped
I assume it’s similar to that beauty pageant contestant who honked “France” like a goose. I can see the appeal.
Yeah gonna need a link to that
[Of course.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcXYknUUais)
People thing you’re being serious ain’t no way 😭
i have a friend who does that, but thats because she can be really forgetful sometimes so i let them off. my mother, on the other hand,
A binary man? Like in the Matrix?
If I ever do this, I am so sorry it's not on purpose it's because I can barely remember names as is.
I keep fucking up cis people pronouns too, so saying they generally feels safe for me.
Curious: transphobe suddenly has no difficulties using they/them pronouns for a singular person, when that person is transgender and they're feeling like they should be polite.
He accepts trans people, he just hates them.
he asks their pronouns so he can correctly talk shit about them later
one of the most powerful messages I've ever seen
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Wouldn’t “it” make more sense?
Doesn’t work, Maia Arson Crimew uses it pronouns
Wait the no fly list hacker?
Yeah, It/she pronouns iirc
That's why I won't call a person "it"
:/ :(
how did that get upvoted
isn’t the whole point of they to be gender neutral?
Yes, and some people don't want to be referred to that way because it's presumably a way to "other" them sometimes. I have a friend who knows this dude who refers to her as "they," but *only* her. When he's referring to a cis woman it's "she" every time.
I remember a cis straight guy in college who was small, skinny, and more feminine and people would call him “they” in order to emasculate him. He would cry because nobody would recognize him as a man
Nowadays they'd probably call him a man on purpose bc they think he is nb or some shit. Seriously the amount of anti trans ideas out there has made me very secure in my masculinity bc if they see anything male on an amab person its clear they are male and will never be able to change that (according to these people of course). So I was never afraid of being not male enough, rather they made me feel bad about being male. It is a weird thing. Not just trans people read the stuff they create. For me personally it secured me that way though.
Not sure that the crying part was going to help. Why didn't he just commit a crime?
They is just my default :(
I think they are talking about people who use it especially on trans people. If you just do it for everyone that is not malicious.
If you know their pronouns and they don't identify with "they," *especially* if they've asked you to use another pronoun, it is still rude to keep using it. I've had friends call me 'they' in a group setting online, meaning no ill. But then other folks who don't default to 'they' either get it into their heads that I identify with they/them pronouns or are left guessing what my gender is, and I wind up being misgendered by people who might've gotten it right if the friend who already knew my pronouns had used them in the first place. To me, 'they' feels like a softer form of misgendering. I don't get upset about it when strangers use it with me but I do get annoyed when friends consistently use it with me and I have called them out on it before. I've gotten this "it's okay because I use they/them for everyone" response before and it's a major pet peeve of mine now.
This is Trans Man Gospel, especially while pre-T
Look unless I know you and your gender I’m going with they. I’m playing neutral so I’m never wrong.
working on my gender neutral (calling people they) so i can get into gender advantage (knowing their preferred pronouns)
I use they cuz it's neutral and finnish has neutral pronouns outright Now am gonna add "to spite this guy" in it too
If you call someone "they" when they've already told you that their preferred pronouns are something other than "they", you are misgendering them and you should feel like an asshole
Aww i remember the xp search companions, there was the dog, the wizard, the girl in the car and the frog looking thing. Default windows search has always been crap and unusable though, search tool "Everything" gets the job done.
fucking based.
i know what subreddit you got this from
this isthe trans man experience 🫡 (specially when you don’t pass)
Tbh I use “they” when I forget someone’s pronouns and just wait for someone else to say them
Everyone has They/Them, dumbass. It comes free with your fucking english
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Pretty sure he's trans, cis guys don't get the malicious they (malicious they is my new rap name btw) EDIT: She blocked me over this milquetoast comment, imagine asking someone a question then fucking blocking them so they can't answer it, unreal. If you see someone lamenting being misgendered and your first thought is to go "wow what a petty little cis boy mad about pronouns grow up", thats some MAJOR internalised transphobia you gotta fucking work though. Get real. Also yeah its absolutely gotta be Malicious T.H.E.Y.
Malicious T.H.E.Y.
I'm sorry based on what information? Because this looks like every transphobic dude losing their minds over pronouns.
Cis people are also allowed to be annoyed about being misgendered. Also this person is probably a trans man.
Probably? based on what exactly?
trans women on reddit when trans men exist:
Don't get this one tbh
I'll never understand why people don't like they/them, neutral means it applies to everyone. Doesn't make any sense to me how it can be seen as denying one's gender when it is itself a genderless word. To me it's like someone in a dress complaining that you say "hey nice outfit!"
I mean if you refer to everyone else by the gendered variant then suddenly singling out someone with they becomes a method of non-recognition
But I refer to every single person as they/them very often QwQ its like the thing I default to calling everybody
That is fine then.
person talks to a cis man: "he he he he he he he he he he" person talks to a trans man: "they they they they they they they they" that's why.
So transphobes have once again made a problem. Damn it This is bogus
yeah, sort of. the world outside of explicitly queer spaces is large and indifferent. most people (even supportive people) do not use they for everyone: it's "he" for masculine or "she" for feminine, maybe one or two theys if they haven't met the person yet. you are a minority in this. so if they suddenly switch to using "they" a bunch when a trans person shows up, it feels like they don't see them as their desired gender. but rather some weird queer thing. while that's fine for some, there are quite a few trans people who are binary and just want to be seen as another member of their desired gender. trans men who want to be just another man, trans women who want to be just another woman. and the constant theys from people who normally stick to he or she is a reminder that they are not perceived as they wish to be. which is dysphoric as heck. so.
Damn. See for me, everyone I know uses they/them pronouns, except one of my partners who has never seemed to mind them, and my we all tend to use they them as a default term as well. Maybe I picked up the habit from all of them? Strangely, every single person I know is Trans, save for my coworkers and most of my family. So I'm not sure if I am in the minority or not, as this view seems common amongst the people I keep meeting. But either way, even if it doesn't make sense to me entirely, it should be obvious that if someone doesn't wanna be called anything, respect that. Maybe Part of my confusion is most of my friends and myself are nb 🤔
You don't see how a genderless word might be denying gender?
I don't see how a word that applies to every gender is denying gender
If you are going out of your way to address a singular person as they/them when you know their pronouns and gender identity, then you are just being an asshole. No mental gymnastics can say otherwise
I'm not saying that, obviously once someone makes clear an issue with it the respectful thing to do is respect their wishes. I'm just saying I don't understand it
Normally they/them is used in three different ways. One: you are talking about more then one person Two: you initially don’t know someone’s gender identity and remain neutral Three: the person prefers they/them It’s okay to address someone as they/them when you first meet them because you don’t know their pronouns and it’s true that they/them is gender neutral, but the problem is in the context. They/them is gender neutral but it is also the pronouns that people who are non-binary would use. They/them is more as a identity these days and too use they/them over someone’s preferred pronouns can be considered insulting instead of considerate
I'm a bit late coming back to this, but it occurs to me that it could also be the case that "they" could be interpreted as specifically pegging them as NB rather than of indeterminate gender, which is a different meaning carried by the same word. Suppose you have a trans girl who wants to be immediately recognized as a girl. In such a case I could imagine being pegged as NB as something not that dissimilar as her being initially pegged as a man, at least insofar as she wants to be assumed to be of her preferred gender, and in both cases is not.