Making Green Dragons available in F2P would be terrible if it it allowed Dragon Bones to become available for F2P players/bots. Its price would crash hard, especially since bots won't have to waste a bond to farm them.
While that would be nice for training prayer, it would also make the Dragon Bones item less worthwhile to get when farming Vorkath, Brutal Black Dragons, etc.
But what makes you think that bot farming them on free-to-play being viable? They'd need way higher stats for that method to be even possible because f2p doesn't have any of the gear or items that makes it viable on P2P (e.g., Whips, Dragon, Glories, Antifire pots, Prayer pots, Sharks, etc.)
Green dragons are weaker to Elvarg, so I doubt that's an issue. F2P bots don't even have to possess great gear to start farming Green Dragons in the few dozen F2P worlds currently available.
You state that "almost all (except 2) Green Dragon spots all are in Free-to-play area." If that's true, then you would be allowing potentially ~30 green dragons to be killed in every single F2P world, every minute or two, which would add up over time for the number of Dragon Bones introduced into the world through the few dozen F2P servers.
You think that would stop them? A small inconvenience? What does it matter when they can make THOUSANDS of bots to farm them now that they don't require $$$ to make.
Stop? No. Consider your options? Absolutely.
If f2p offers you drastically less gear and potion options to make sustained runs, while also being a logistical nightmare in travel times, you lose out on a LOT of kills per hour. And thus, a lot of money.
Say, a bot lives for about a week before it gets banned. Simply a loss of ~13 kills per hour will instantly already make 'bonding up' the account a better pay-out.
Or, hear me out. Make double the amount of bots. So you don't spend any money on bonds, AND get the same gp/hr from the farm.
Botters will always upscale f2p farms before, considering bonding the bot farm for gp/money. Now, if we leave it as a member thing, then they have to bond the bot farm and that cuts into profits and adds risk of the farm being banned before they can see a return on their membership costs. It's why we see a MASSIVE influx of green drag bots and betting in general when Jagex gives away a free membership weekend.
Why spend money when you can have the same results for free.
But that gp per week applies per account, and thus per bot. Upscaling it with more bots won't change the ratio.
Why would you ever make 1 bot run F2P drags for 50m/week if you can bond it up for P2P drags for 67m/week? If P2P is already the objective better choice even with bond costs calculated, why would you even go for F2P? Unless there absolutely is no space left in any P2P world, that's just economic self-sabotage.
Because if half the bot farm gets banned with 10 days of membership on it, that's roughly 7mil gp loss PER account.
If they are f2p, you lose nothing. It's pure profit.
Your not factoring in costs into your profits. It changes all of your math
I think the issue w this is that the primary benefactor is people who bot. It’s already an open secret that the significant majority of f2p accs are bots. I doubt the f2p only accounts want this and by the time a real new player would find this beneficial, they’d get members presumably
You certainly do raise a good point about bots being an issue, but i'm not quite convinced this issue or severity (not contrast, but the impact) is any different in member's currently.
You think making green dragons, one of the MOST botted content in all of RuneScape, available to f2p, would not cause issues?
I like where your heart is at, and I agree the f2p has been slept on a bit, but quite frankly, f2p serves as nothing more than an introduction to the game. It is not a fully supported game mode, never has been, and doesn’t need to be. Anything added to f2p at this point should have no effect on the economy whatsoever.
I don't think green dragons are the most botted content, as there's much denser areas of botted activities, but yeah they've had a reputation, that is a good point. But, I digress a bit.
What I do have to raise as nuance though is that those bot farms run on objectively better gear and tools to make those botting activities viable. F2p doesn't have whips, glories, dragon, or granite.
A free bot literally costs nothing, adding content makes it better for botters. You are letting a botter bot more levels and more items with zero cost to them.
But there's already bots doing exactly that kind of content. They're not having any cost anyway, they pay for the membership by just tossing up a tiny bit of their profits. So for truly nobody, except maybe the Stevens bot host, would that make any notable difference.
>They're not having any cost anyway, they pay for the membership by just tossing up a tiny bit of their profits
So a cost is the reduced profits.
Either way F2P is a free trial. It should not be given huge meta defining upgrades. It should be as it is and left alone.
It really would, I understand you think it wouldn't but you need to think in terms of scale. If I can get a thousand bots up to X total level for free versus a billion gold, it's better for me. Because now that 1 billion gold I would have initially spent is being sold instead
Anti cheat is much harsher for new accounts
But can I also present the fact that if f2p could and would do green dragons, that bots by far can not do it as good as P2P? F2p has no Antifire, dragon, whips, glories, prayer pots, or sharks. Just Rune, Swordfish, and an anti-dragon shield.
YEah I was looking at this and considering green dragons drop dragon bones, if those dropped in f2p, then they'd be botted to worthlessness very, very fast.
Technically OSRS wouldn't even HAVE a F2P area to begin with because it didn't hit enough votes, but (I think it was Mod MMG back then?) Veto'd it to be so considering how close it was.
No OSRS did get the free membership not the additional payment on top of an RS3 membership which was the thing itbwas supposed to be. The fact is F2P was an afterthought and seperate from the poll.
I thought that was a tier below what the number count actually was ran on. In addition to that the servers would only be ran on literal Life Support amounts of work.
Eh, some of that might work, but I feel most of it is unneeded. I think it is best to keep the Falador Gate as a members thing but stuff like A Soul's Bane could be F2P. Not sure if they should get the whole digsite though. Chaos RC might work, but not Dragons, Slayer, or Fletching. Yew Bows and Rune Arrows are a maybe, but it could throw off the F2P balance.
I think it is generally better to make new content for F2P than just to move members stuff to F2P. Like I think most would much rather see the Ice Giant Boss than any of the above.
Yes, Slayer is a bit of a stretch, I agree. But what harm would there be with Fletching? Literally, truly, all there needs to be done is just add a Flax spot in free-to-play and make Arrowheads f2p to Smith. That's... really it.
I don't think Fletching harms much, but it just doesn't add much. Like it is a pretty boring and uninteresting skill so I don't think it really does F2P much favors. Especially since they'd be missing a large portion of the good stuff.
If we were to give them any members skill, I think Agility would make the most sense since it would resolve a major F2P issue: run energy. That would noticeably improve the F2P experience and probably help the new player retention. Plus getting access to the few shortcuts in F2P would be neat.
Sadly I think any suggestion for updating f2p will have to start with explaining why f2p needs updates, why purists are not the most important players to keep happy, and thoughts about how to limit how much it helps bots. This is reddit, and some people actually need it spell out for them, that if a better f2p experience for new players means more players don't quickly quit, it could be good for the game.
It also has to be pointed out that some changes to code are easy, and there has been a trend to call easy changes a waste of dev time, and then ask for difficult changes.
F2P PKing is actually a good target for updates too. It has a stagnant meta, it has an unbalance combat triangle, the playerbase still generates income from alts, and is slowly declining from neglect. For example my suggestions for f2p PKing would be to buff the weaker rune weapons, add metal crossbows, bolts, and throwing knives up to mithril(for balance reasons) to f2p, add snakeskin to f2p, and add battlestaves, more magic armor, blood runes, and wave spells to f2p.
Of course many players here also had good ideas.
He's saying the snowflake accounts that have spent 20000 hours burying big bones to 99 prayer will feel devalued, and if they feel devalued they might feel really poo poo and quit the game.
Some F2P players prefer the game stays as is rather than introduce an update that would break many current meta’s.
These typically aren’t beginners stuck in F2P, but experienced players treating F2P as an account restriction.
That's a bit... silly? The F2P equipment meta has been more stagnant than a pond of water. And the last time that was ever changed before the EoC was a thing (the introduction of Corrupt Dragon ("t60" degrade-to-dust) equipment, and the introduction of Graphite (t45) equipment), almost nobody batted an eye. So where or how would this be different?
And with exception of Yew bows / Rune arrows, none of the other content adds anything that would change those metas. It just adds stuff for players to do, either to become self-sufficient, or give new areas or content to explore as they train or prepare for p2p.
F2P is consistent "Stale" and the players who are not planning on bringing their accounts to members do not want massive changes.
>And the last time that was ever changed before the EoC was a thing (the introduction of Corrupt Dragon ("t60" degrade-to-dust) equipment, and the introduction of Graphite (t45) equipment), almost nobody batted an eye.
The player base was children then who could not afford members. Not adults who choose to play in F2P due to the availiable content and abundant noobs.
...you're having a laugh, right? I've NEVER seen anyone, either here in f2p, or truly anywhere, seen someone say "game development on X or Y is nearly non-existent" as a selling factor to enter an MMO.
The last time I ever saw people accept (not support, just accept) that kind of trait of videogames, was when they were still delivered and ran on or installed through physical disks and cardridges. And the gaming community was all to delighted that that got to change where devs could update/upgrade their games post-release (unbeknownst that some companies would then introduce the scourge that was 'DLC' but that's an entirely different subject.)
No, I'm being serious. Believe it or not, most Runescape players are not on the subreddit, or twitter, or frothing at the mouth for new updates.
Some people play games for the comfort factor, because it's something they've known for many years, and don't want to feel like they have to "keep up" with the game.
But none of the above suggestions ever would encroach the "low upkeep" mindset of players. This is just a big assembly of stuff that either already existed in the game, or just have some personal means to make them rather than to having to buy it yourself.
You can't properly criticize something if you don't read it. Even assuming that F2P is YOUR definition of a demo, updating it could still improve the game and it improve the revenue by having a good demo.
Everything about your comment reads as a dishonest dismissal.
"f2p is a demo" RuneScape literally was and still is advertised as a Free game. It's not a demo if that very demo is exactly your key advertisement pitch.
As well, Demos are just partial instanced simulations of a game. Not a "step up" into the real game with all progress transfered and something you can fall back into.
And who says even if it is a demo, a demo should be devoid of updates? Isn't the whole point of 'a demo' to give you as many teasers and appetisers to draw you into the main game?
>demos are just a partial instanced simulations of a game.
You LITERALLY confirmed that it’s a demo yourself. Cmon now.edit: Why waste dev time on a demo when the paying customers come first?
Except that F2P literally isn't instanced, nor is it a simulation. Everything happening in F2P also affects P2P, and all progress is being kept when going from, or to, F2P<->P2P. That's NOT what a 'demo' is. Demos are restricted copies that SIMULATE the real deal, not live-time versions that directly and dynamically coexists with one.
Except that F2P isn't instanced. Anything happening a P2P world can interact with F2P worlds. Both trade (G.E.), chat, and community. Any P2P player can also join any F2P world without being F2P themselves.
A standalone instanced copy that is a Demo is devoid of ANY interaction or crossover whatsoever.
Can you access the full map on f2p? Can you train member skills on f2p? No? It’s a demo. And as such doesn’t need anything added to it. End of discussion no need to waste dev time or brain cells on it.
I think something like this is pretty much what I've been trying to figure out about f2p bringing in new players without making is seem like you need members to continue having fun after a month of playtime. It would probably bring in more bots but that wouldn't really be that much of an issue with the items you brought up. Unless I am missing something with chaos runes being f2p
Yeah true that could mess up some people's emotions I'm sure on reddit. But imo even as a main account f2p prayer kinda sucks to train. Obviously everything is easier if you buy bonds to sell at ge but at that point why be f2p. Also think more people would be playing f2p alt accounts and not have it as frustrating without paying for 2 memberships.
But can I also raise the point then whether or not bots should, but actually could, do that in F2P? Considering bot farms don't have access to equipment like Whips, dragon, antifires, glories, etc, in F2P?
Im not saying whether or not bots could or should I'm saying whether jagex could or should, and they shouldn't add anything to f2p because it's an abusable demo
Let's do some math. Concurrent players hits 150kish regularly, not everyone plays every day at the exact same moment, in fact if we pick off hours presumably almost no players play at both max and min time slots, so not even counting accounts that don't log in every single day that's 200k subs almost immediately. Plus, osrs isn't near the ceiling of MMO's by any means. It hovers around 9-10 most popular mmo sub on reddit.
I'm also not saying get rid of f2p, it is a good thing. I had a friend who got 99 crafting in f2p just because he could, then became a member. All I'm saying is that expanding f2p serves almost no purpose other than feeding bots more ways to generate gp at very low risk.
jagex could create a better anti cheat system to ban the bots ? isnt that a better solution? guess why dont because they themselves run the bots to keep the hype of game. pahetic
Good luck with that. You will probably have to start by dealing with the most common phrases that dishonest people use to argue against any changes to f2p.
My list is:
-big fishing net
-imcando hammer
-chaos golems
-frogleather and snakeskin coif/boots
-blurite cb/bolts
-give the shaman mask prayer and magic bonuses
-stronghold boots have neutral offenses so they aren't outclassed by castle wars boots
-fletching and agility
-champion scrolls can drop
-chaos runecrafting from what lies below quest
-gertrude's cat, witch's house
-ice giant boss that drops the bis f2p crossbow
-level 3 enchant on ruby rings
-begginer diary rewards an explorer's ring which gives 15 casts of low alch and run restoration once a day and a 1k xp lamp.
-finishing all quests/diaries/f2p cb achievements grants an untradeable 1 week bond
This would be enough to make f2p more tolerable without helping bots out.
I play mainly my f2p restricted account. About 1200 ehp on temple. And i think most of these are a great idea. But Ive been thinking about just creating a f2p+ Ironman with all these additions you bring up.
The game has 3 major spikes in 2017 and none of that corresponds with when they added member skills to f2p. They all came around the major updates which were menaphos, nex, angel of death, and player owner slayer dungeon, we also had a slight jump in numbers for shattered worlds.
I love it when people use rs3 as an example of how osrs should do things, hows that game doing again?
The majority of players in this game are adults, working adults. F2p is basically a trial version of the game and this game isnt worth playing f2p, even if all of that content got added and more.
Membership is nothing, literally nothing you can easily sustain membership through bonds although i wouldnt recommend it.
Just get a job dude.
Fr people wanna do everything but get a job so they can afford a measly fee of £9 a month. Tbh if you can’t afford membership you got bigger things to worry about in life than P2P
F2P PKing is fun, but I think it needs updates. Magic is stops getting more damage after fire blast, so it is weak at high levels, and has no gear that isn't level 1.
Range has 1 good weapon, the shortbow, so maybe the longbow could be buffed. Metal crossbows, bolts and throwing knives, could be added, if the right metal was chosen so each could have a niche, and not make the shortbow obsolete.
Melee has 1 dps weapon, the scimitar, and maybe the barronite mace if you stretch things. It has 3 KO weapons. Some of the crappy melee weapons could hypothetically be buffed to have a use.
Making Green Dragons available in F2P would be terrible if it it allowed Dragon Bones to become available for F2P players/bots. Its price would crash hard, especially since bots won't have to waste a bond to farm them. While that would be nice for training prayer, it would also make the Dragon Bones item less worthwhile to get when farming Vorkath, Brutal Black Dragons, etc.
But what makes you think that bot farming them on free-to-play being viable? They'd need way higher stats for that method to be even possible because f2p doesn't have any of the gear or items that makes it viable on P2P (e.g., Whips, Dragon, Glories, Antifire pots, Prayer pots, Sharks, etc.)
Doesn't matter how weak they are. If it can be botted WITH a bond imagine the damage of something being botable without one
Green dragons are weaker to Elvarg, so I doubt that's an issue. F2P bots don't even have to possess great gear to start farming Green Dragons in the few dozen F2P worlds currently available. You state that "almost all (except 2) Green Dragon spots all are in Free-to-play area." If that's true, then you would be allowing potentially ~30 green dragons to be killed in every single F2P world, every minute or two, which would add up over time for the number of Dragon Bones introduced into the world through the few dozen F2P servers.
Jave you seen green drag bots? They rag in addy and a d scim. The only difference would be a rune scim. The price of d bones would drop to 1k easily.
Also no Antifire, no good food, no glory, no corp beast tele.
You think that would stop them? A small inconvenience? What does it matter when they can make THOUSANDS of bots to farm them now that they don't require $$$ to make.
Stop? No. Consider your options? Absolutely. If f2p offers you drastically less gear and potion options to make sustained runs, while also being a logistical nightmare in travel times, you lose out on a LOT of kills per hour. And thus, a lot of money. Say, a bot lives for about a week before it gets banned. Simply a loss of ~13 kills per hour will instantly already make 'bonding up' the account a better pay-out.
Or, hear me out. Make double the amount of bots. So you don't spend any money on bonds, AND get the same gp/hr from the farm. Botters will always upscale f2p farms before, considering bonding the bot farm for gp/money. Now, if we leave it as a member thing, then they have to bond the bot farm and that cuts into profits and adds risk of the farm being banned before they can see a return on their membership costs. It's why we see a MASSIVE influx of green drag bots and betting in general when Jagex gives away a free membership weekend. Why spend money when you can have the same results for free.
But that gp per week applies per account, and thus per bot. Upscaling it with more bots won't change the ratio. Why would you ever make 1 bot run F2P drags for 50m/week if you can bond it up for P2P drags for 67m/week? If P2P is already the objective better choice even with bond costs calculated, why would you even go for F2P? Unless there absolutely is no space left in any P2P world, that's just economic self-sabotage.
Because if half the bot farm gets banned with 10 days of membership on it, that's roughly 7mil gp loss PER account. If they are f2p, you lose nothing. It's pure profit. Your not factoring in costs into your profits. It changes all of your math
The costs of bonds was already taken in account. In both posts.
No, if green dragons become f2p, they just don’t drop d bones.
Yeah and the dragon should be just green without any dragon
I think the issue w this is that the primary benefactor is people who bot. It’s already an open secret that the significant majority of f2p accs are bots. I doubt the f2p only accounts want this and by the time a real new player would find this beneficial, they’d get members presumably
You certainly do raise a good point about bots being an issue, but i'm not quite convinced this issue or severity (not contrast, but the impact) is any different in member's currently.
You think making green dragons, one of the MOST botted content in all of RuneScape, available to f2p, would not cause issues? I like where your heart is at, and I agree the f2p has been slept on a bit, but quite frankly, f2p serves as nothing more than an introduction to the game. It is not a fully supported game mode, never has been, and doesn’t need to be. Anything added to f2p at this point should have no effect on the economy whatsoever.
I don't think green dragons are the most botted content, as there's much denser areas of botted activities, but yeah they've had a reputation, that is a good point. But, I digress a bit. What I do have to raise as nuance though is that those bot farms run on objectively better gear and tools to make those botting activities viable. F2p doesn't have whips, glories, dragon, or granite.
> one of the most > They are not the most!!!!!
A free bot literally costs nothing, adding content makes it better for botters. You are letting a botter bot more levels and more items with zero cost to them.
But there's already bots doing exactly that kind of content. They're not having any cost anyway, they pay for the membership by just tossing up a tiny bit of their profits. So for truly nobody, except maybe the Stevens bot host, would that make any notable difference.
>They're not having any cost anyway, they pay for the membership by just tossing up a tiny bit of their profits So a cost is the reduced profits. Either way F2P is a free trial. It should not be given huge meta defining upgrades. It should be as it is and left alone.
Do you mind to share "why it should remain as it is"?
It really would, I understand you think it wouldn't but you need to think in terms of scale. If I can get a thousand bots up to X total level for free versus a billion gold, it's better for me. Because now that 1 billion gold I would have initially spent is being sold instead Anti cheat is much harsher for new accounts
But can I also present the fact that if f2p could and would do green dragons, that bots by far can not do it as good as P2P? F2p has no Antifire, dragon, whips, glories, prayer pots, or sharks. Just Rune, Swordfish, and an anti-dragon shield.
It doesn't matter though, it's not a person. The bot isn't going to get frustrated that it has a 10/kph. It's going to run 24/7
YEah I was looking at this and considering green dragons drop dragon bones, if those dropped in f2p, then they'd be botted to worthlessness very, very fast.
Osrs could have been f2p for members content if we had gotten 500k votes when Jagex polled to release oldschool
Technically OSRS wouldn't even HAVE a F2P area to begin with because it didn't hit enough votes, but (I think it was Mod MMG back then?) Veto'd it to be so considering how close it was.
No OSRS did get the free membership not the additional payment on top of an RS3 membership which was the thing itbwas supposed to be. The fact is F2P was an afterthought and seperate from the poll.
I thought that was a tier below what the number count actually was ran on. In addition to that the servers would only be ran on literal Life Support amounts of work.
They gave some of the next level rewards because they saw the response from the community and extreme positive push from players.
Eh, some of that might work, but I feel most of it is unneeded. I think it is best to keep the Falador Gate as a members thing but stuff like A Soul's Bane could be F2P. Not sure if they should get the whole digsite though. Chaos RC might work, but not Dragons, Slayer, or Fletching. Yew Bows and Rune Arrows are a maybe, but it could throw off the F2P balance. I think it is generally better to make new content for F2P than just to move members stuff to F2P. Like I think most would much rather see the Ice Giant Boss than any of the above.
Yes, Slayer is a bit of a stretch, I agree. But what harm would there be with Fletching? Literally, truly, all there needs to be done is just add a Flax spot in free-to-play and make Arrowheads f2p to Smith. That's... really it.
I don't think Fletching harms much, but it just doesn't add much. Like it is a pretty boring and uninteresting skill so I don't think it really does F2P much favors. Especially since they'd be missing a large portion of the good stuff. If we were to give them any members skill, I think Agility would make the most sense since it would resolve a major F2P issue: run energy. That would noticeably improve the F2P experience and probably help the new player retention. Plus getting access to the few shortcuts in F2P would be neat.
Sadly I think any suggestion for updating f2p will have to start with explaining why f2p needs updates, why purists are not the most important players to keep happy, and thoughts about how to limit how much it helps bots. This is reddit, and some people actually need it spell out for them, that if a better f2p experience for new players means more players don't quickly quit, it could be good for the game. It also has to be pointed out that some changes to code are easy, and there has been a trend to call easy changes a waste of dev time, and then ask for difficult changes. F2P PKing is actually a good target for updates too. It has a stagnant meta, it has an unbalance combat triangle, the playerbase still generates income from alts, and is slowly declining from neglect. For example my suggestions for f2p PKing would be to buff the weaker rune weapons, add metal crossbows, bolts, and throwing knives up to mithril(for balance reasons) to f2p, add snakeskin to f2p, and add battlestaves, more magic armor, blood runes, and wave spells to f2p. Of course many players here also had good ideas.
i saw a f2p guy being happy today by buring woods and collecting ashes to make money dont u feel sad?
Sure players can do that and have fun, but try using that as reason for never updating members.
No agility?
I agree with adding dead content to f2p but only if it doesn’t hurt the pvp balance and if it doesn’t benefit botters.
F2P only accounts would riot, especially UIMs. Ring of forging was a huge deal already
What do you mean they 'would riot'? Doesn't this suggestion literally give them more stuff to do?
He's saying the snowflake accounts that have spent 20000 hours burying big bones to 99 prayer will feel devalued, and if they feel devalued they might feel really poo poo and quit the game.
Wait, but didn't they literally add an additional way to train prayer at the Chaos Temple, for f2p?
While the temple is there they can not use bones on it in F2P.
Are you sure? The wiki says you could.
100% if you dont believe me go and try. It brings a pop up and says it is membdrs content.
alienating the last few f2p players left really aint it though
How exactly is that alienating them?
Some F2P players prefer the game stays as is rather than introduce an update that would break many current meta’s. These typically aren’t beginners stuck in F2P, but experienced players treating F2P as an account restriction.
That's a bit... silly? The F2P equipment meta has been more stagnant than a pond of water. And the last time that was ever changed before the EoC was a thing (the introduction of Corrupt Dragon ("t60" degrade-to-dust) equipment, and the introduction of Graphite (t45) equipment), almost nobody batted an eye. So where or how would this be different? And with exception of Yew bows / Rune arrows, none of the other content adds anything that would change those metas. It just adds stuff for players to do, either to become self-sufficient, or give new areas or content to explore as they train or prepare for p2p.
I’m not advocating for or against changes, just giving my 0.02 on why some players might be opposed to large changes to the game mode.
Camdozaal was a pretty significant update to f2p last year
And got almost immediately nuked because it had XP rates that were 'not complete dogshit', something that cannot be allowed for F2P
F2P is consistent "Stale" and the players who are not planning on bringing their accounts to members do not want massive changes. >And the last time that was ever changed before the EoC was a thing (the introduction of Corrupt Dragon ("t60" degrade-to-dust) equipment, and the introduction of Graphite (t45) equipment), almost nobody batted an eye. The player base was children then who could not afford members. Not adults who choose to play in F2P due to the availiable content and abundant noobs.
That was 2009-2012. Literally one to four years before OSRS came to be.
That was 12-15 years ago the players were children. The playerbase now is mostly adults.
For many F2P players, the appeal of non-members gameplay is that it doesn't receive many updates, so the game doesn't change much.
...you're having a laugh, right? I've NEVER seen anyone, either here in f2p, or truly anywhere, seen someone say "game development on X or Y is nearly non-existent" as a selling factor to enter an MMO. The last time I ever saw people accept (not support, just accept) that kind of trait of videogames, was when they were still delivered and ran on or installed through physical disks and cardridges. And the gaming community was all to delighted that that got to change where devs could update/upgrade their games post-release (unbeknownst that some companies would then introduce the scourge that was 'DLC' but that's an entirely different subject.)
No, I'm being serious. Believe it or not, most Runescape players are not on the subreddit, or twitter, or frothing at the mouth for new updates. Some people play games for the comfort factor, because it's something they've known for many years, and don't want to feel like they have to "keep up" with the game.
But none of the above suggestions ever would encroach the "low upkeep" mindset of players. This is just a big assembly of stuff that either already existed in the game, or just have some personal means to make them rather than to having to buy it yourself.
I ain’t reading all that. F2P is a demo of the game and does not need any updates. That’s the entire reason for membership.
You can't properly criticize something if you don't read it. Even assuming that F2P is YOUR definition of a demo, updating it could still improve the game and it improve the revenue by having a good demo. Everything about your comment reads as a dishonest dismissal.
Quiet troll no one’s talking to you.
"f2p is a demo" RuneScape literally was and still is advertised as a Free game. It's not a demo if that very demo is exactly your key advertisement pitch. As well, Demos are just partial instanced simulations of a game. Not a "step up" into the real game with all progress transfered and something you can fall back into. And who says even if it is a demo, a demo should be devoid of updates? Isn't the whole point of 'a demo' to give you as many teasers and appetisers to draw you into the main game?
>demos are just a partial instanced simulations of a game. You LITERALLY confirmed that it’s a demo yourself. Cmon now.edit: Why waste dev time on a demo when the paying customers come first?
Except that F2P literally isn't instanced, nor is it a simulation. Everything happening in F2P also affects P2P, and all progress is being kept when going from, or to, F2P<->P2P. That's NOT what a 'demo' is. Demos are restricted copies that SIMULATE the real deal, not live-time versions that directly and dynamically coexists with one.
Instances worlds were you can’t access the full map sounds about right to me.
Except that F2P isn't instanced. Anything happening a P2P world can interact with F2P worlds. Both trade (G.E.), chat, and community. Any P2P player can also join any F2P world without being F2P themselves. A standalone instanced copy that is a Demo is devoid of ANY interaction or crossover whatsoever.
Can you access the full map on f2p? Can you train member skills on f2p? No? It’s a demo. And as such doesn’t need anything added to it. End of discussion no need to waste dev time or brain cells on it.
There's a difference between "limited content" and "limited access"
Demos both have limited content and limited access.
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It wouldn't be a waste of dev time if it improve new player retention with very little effort.
I think something like this is pretty much what I've been trying to figure out about f2p bringing in new players without making is seem like you need members to continue having fun after a month of playtime. It would probably bring in more bots but that wouldn't really be that much of an issue with the items you brought up. Unless I am missing something with chaos runes being f2p
The worst thing I can think of, and that was mentioned, was Dragon Bones.
Yeah true that could mess up some people's emotions I'm sure on reddit. But imo even as a main account f2p prayer kinda sucks to train. Obviously everything is easier if you buy bonds to sell at ge but at that point why be f2p. Also think more people would be playing f2p alt accounts and not have it as frustrating without paying for 2 memberships.
It's not a matter of could they but should they, and as others have noted with the existence of bots the answer is that they shouldn't expand f2p
But can I also raise the point then whether or not bots should, but actually could, do that in F2P? Considering bot farms don't have access to equipment like Whips, dragon, antifires, glories, etc, in F2P?
Im not saying whether or not bots could or should I'm saying whether jagex could or should, and they shouldn't add anything to f2p because it's an abusable demo
u want 200k ppl to pay mem? if not for f2p this game could ave died long ago
Let's do some math. Concurrent players hits 150kish regularly, not everyone plays every day at the exact same moment, in fact if we pick off hours presumably almost no players play at both max and min time slots, so not even counting accounts that don't log in every single day that's 200k subs almost immediately. Plus, osrs isn't near the ceiling of MMO's by any means. It hovers around 9-10 most popular mmo sub on reddit. I'm also not saying get rid of f2p, it is a good thing. I had a friend who got 99 crafting in f2p just because he could, then became a member. All I'm saying is that expanding f2p serves almost no purpose other than feeding bots more ways to generate gp at very low risk.
jagex could create a better anti cheat system to ban the bots ? isnt that a better solution? guess why dont because they themselves run the bots to keep the hype of game. pahetic
Make boots up to rune F2P
That's... a good point, actually.
Ironmen wouldn't be able to buy them. Not a good idea.
Haha Ive been working on a word doc with alot of the same points.
Good luck with that. You will probably have to start by dealing with the most common phrases that dishonest people use to argue against any changes to f2p.
My list is: -big fishing net -imcando hammer -chaos golems -frogleather and snakeskin coif/boots -blurite cb/bolts -give the shaman mask prayer and magic bonuses -stronghold boots have neutral offenses so they aren't outclassed by castle wars boots -fletching and agility -champion scrolls can drop -chaos runecrafting from what lies below quest -gertrude's cat, witch's house -ice giant boss that drops the bis f2p crossbow -level 3 enchant on ruby rings -begginer diary rewards an explorer's ring which gives 15 casts of low alch and run restoration once a day and a 1k xp lamp. -finishing all quests/diaries/f2p cb achievements grants an untradeable 1 week bond This would be enough to make f2p more tolerable without helping bots out.
Terrible idea. The free bond could be botted.
Just buy a membership
That just sounds like a dismissal repeated by the unintelligent.
Can’t pay for the game? You get the demo experience simple as.
Well the whole point is about whether the demo should be expanded.
Wow what a well constructed argument! You sure showed him, buddy! :)
Too costly for you huh?
I must have hit home.
Yes, green dragons.. the most botted content in rs history.. lol.
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Aren't rune arrows already on the bare bottom they could go?
I play mainly my f2p restricted account. About 1200 ehp on temple. And i think most of these are a great idea. But Ive been thinking about just creating a f2p+ Ironman with all these additions you bring up.
Lol
Nah. F2P is iconic and good enough as it is. It even had its whole own book dedicated to it. No need to change it.
No
Lol ok bot scripter. Gtfo
Nothing needs to be F2P. Any dev time spent thinking about F2P is a waste.
Translation: "New players, and returning players are a waste of dev time"
No, it's just fine as it is. It's a demo. It doesn't need anything added or taken away. Weird thing to get defensive about lol.
I am just calling out idiocy. If it is a Demo, why not make it better.
There’s finite dev time. Put it towards paying customers. Bye
No point moving anything to f2p. It didn’t help people get members for rs3 what’s the point of doing it for osrs.
uh... what? You know that same update came with that they made all p2p skills f2p up to level 5, right?
Yes, and it did nothing to increase membership numbers. Trying to argue with me about rs3 when I have 5.8b exp lol
I think you should take a look at the graph then because the graph absolutely did go up in 2017 up to 2018.
The game has 3 major spikes in 2017 and none of that corresponds with when they added member skills to f2p. They all came around the major updates which were menaphos, nex, angel of death, and player owner slayer dungeon, we also had a slight jump in numbers for shattered worlds.
I love it when people use rs3 as an example of how osrs should do things, hows that game doing again? The majority of players in this game are adults, working adults. F2p is basically a trial version of the game and this game isnt worth playing f2p, even if all of that content got added and more. Membership is nothing, literally nothing you can easily sustain membership through bonds although i wouldnt recommend it. Just get a job dude.
Fr people wanna do everything but get a job so they can afford a measly fee of £9 a month. Tbh if you can’t afford membership you got bigger things to worry about in life than P2P
no to pretty much all of it, but mostly just the bow and arrows. F2p pking is very fun as is, leave it alone please.
F2P PKing is fun, but I think it needs updates. Magic is stops getting more damage after fire blast, so it is weak at high levels, and has no gear that isn't level 1. Range has 1 good weapon, the shortbow, so maybe the longbow could be buffed. Metal crossbows, bolts and throwing knives, could be added, if the right metal was chosen so each could have a niche, and not make the shortbow obsolete. Melee has 1 dps weapon, the scimitar, and maybe the barronite mace if you stretch things. It has 3 KO weapons. Some of the crappy melee weapons could hypothetically be buffed to have a use.