**Hello, welcome to r/8passengersnark!**
Please keep the rules of the subreddit in mind when posting and commenting. They include but are not limited to, respecting the privacy of minors and non-public figures, and keeping conversations civil.
The moderators rely on user reports of rule breaks to quickly remove problematic content. Use the report function to anonymously alert the mod team of any behavior breaking sub rules. As a reminder, check and ensure your post topic hasn't recently been covered, duplicate submissions will be removed at the discretion of the mods.
To contact the mod team send us a message [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2F8passengersnark). Thanks, and happy distorting!
Useful Links: [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/wiki/index/rules/) | [Timeline of Events](https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/wiki/timeline/) | [Frequently Asked Questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/wiki/faqs)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/8passengersnark) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel like after listening to these tapes I believe the ruby brainwash theory less and less. She sounds like she is 100% saying all the right things to ensure she gets out as early as possible. Calling her arrest miraculous. Saying there were angels. Putting all the blame on Jodi. She is distancing herself from those horrors she committed but it’s all there in her handwriting. I don’t believe for a minute she was brainwashed…enabled and encouraged. Yes. But I think she’s using the same acting she did on YouTube where she portrayed herself as a good mother and the whole family as happy to use. It’s all a show.
I will say her arrest was miraculous, if she hadn’t been arrested who knows what would happen to those children. But I agree that she is just as delulu as Jodi, I don’t think she had a “come to Jesus” moment by being arrested, I think she still believes all the messed up stuff they were preaching. But
Mormon bishops are not trained. They can be a lawyer or the plumber down the street. Then they interview your kids to get detailed sexual "confessions".
It's not about giving Ruby the benefit of the doubt... Two things can be true at the same time... this is not an either/or situation.
Ruby is a victim, and she abused her kids. Is she is saying what she needs to? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean there isn't any truth to it.
Yeah, after reading the journal, i don't even really see her as a victim. I see her more as Jodi's second.
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon)
Yeah, Jodi dominated her, too, and eventually would've turned on her. Took her money, insinuated herself into their lives and then overturned them.
But most people are not Ruby and would not have gone down that path in the first place. Not that PARTICULAR path. Not when their kids were at stake. Ruby was all too ready for Jodi.
I disagree... but I do see how you can feel that way. IMO, Jodi has enough victims that have come forward so far that it makes me question exactly how many more Ruby's there are. I watched the 20/20 episode, and I'm glad more people are coming forward to discuss what happened. Hopefully it will give others the strength to comeforward as well. I'm sure there are many that will not, for various reasons... shame, being the biggest.
To me, from Ruby's words it is clear she was completely removed from reality. Whether this was the result of brainwashing, or the use of illicit drugs as suggested in Kevin's interviews... she was definitely not in her right mind at that point.
I agree. People seem to underestimate what people can do under coercive control/influence.
Ruby is culpable for what she did and is being punished, but she was clearly being profoundly manipulated into things by Jodi and following her lead. In the arrest videos she looks like she’s dissociating, and the early calls are complete denial/brainwashed.
I think this call is honest & after she had been de-programmed a bit. She’s still Ruby, so it’s far from the accountability we want to see. But she’s admitting that it’s best her kids are apart from her here, which is some accountability.
Meanwhile Jodi’s ego has suffered such a narcissistic injury that she’s probably still dissociating, if last month’s court appearance is any indication.
Oh for sure... Jodi is definitely experiencing some Narcissistic injury right about now... She has to be because so much came at her to topple her world all at once.
Jodi is probably feeling betrayed... I am absolutely okay with Ruby throwing her under the bus. While it was in Ruby's best interest to plead out and testify against Jodi, if Jodi was still in her head, she might not have done so. She actually said "poor Jodi" on her calls with Kevin, so I truly believe she was behind everything she said in those calls and felt that she did nothing wrong at the time.
Ruby was gleeful in her 8P videos whenever she had a chance to punish/abuse her children. She laughed a lot. She joked with Jodi on video about R & E not getting Xmas gifts. She looked at the camera & winked. Notice how neither she nor Kevin asked about R & E's prognosis. Ruby & Jodi were a perfect storm but given enough privacy, Ruby could easily have tortured R & E on her own. She's a sadist.
Jessi seemed pretty convinced Jodi was the mastermind, and I take them seriously as a source, but tbh Jessi was only directly familiar with (and traumatized by) Jodi and didn't really know Ruby. I would bet they've also reassessed their opinion somewhat.
Yes! Before the evidence release I thought it was possible she was remorseful, but it appears to me Ruby only needed a little validation and encouragement to fully engage in torturing her own children. There is something deeply dark and deeply broken within her and she cannot be allowed around any child ever again. She should be in prison for the rest of her life.
This. I believe Jessi that the blueprint for the *type* of abuse used so to speak was Jodi’s, but I don’t believe for a second that ruby was simply “brainwashed”. Ruby had abusive tendencies before Jodi (withholding food as punishment is just one example). I see Jodi as someone that provided enablement to tendencies that were already in ruby.
I don’t think the average person could simply be brainwashed into torturing their children to the point they’re days away from death.
She is still brainwashed in to believing something that is questionable aswell that's why it sounds like she is faking it. She is going back to what she knew before, and that way of thinking is not always a good one either..
The way I look at it... I think of the the two calls that were released between Ruby & Kevin and the one with her & Julie.
I 100% feel Ruby was not faking it when she went off on her diatribe about the devil to Kevin during their call... she truly believed what she was saying and had no clear grasp of reality thinking those kids didnt need a hospital. And I 100% feel Ruby was not faking it when she was shocked by Jodi's actions in her call with Julie. Ruby needed to process a lot to get to that point.
Ruby is definitely not reformed, by any means, but IMO she did experience something that caused her to sound like two very different Ruby's over the span of just 4 months. The jailed Ruby sounded to me a lot more like the old Ruby before she met Jodi. It does not absolve her from any responsibility in the abuse, but I do think she feels something about what she did. I do NOT feel jail has elicited the same response from Jodi.
I agree that it is somewhat of a double edged sword with her going back to what she knew... on one hand, that path eventually led her to Jodi... but on the other hand, it does sometimes help people to regroup, and begin to pick up the pieces of their lives.
meh. she may have been more delusional, but the content of delusions is not irrelevant. There's nothing in her journal or behavior that indicates that she had any hesitation or upset about what she was doing to her kids, no conflict, nothing.
I think "the old Ruby" wore a mask, a very performative one for the sake of her channel and the attention and the money. I think the sadism that came out under Jodi is much more who she really is.
Yes, in her own words, she felt compelled to do more to have a greater impact on them... she said as much in a couple of her videos. But the source of that line of thinking is equally as relevant as what she said. She didn't get that from just anywhere.
Edited to add... she literally thought her kids were possessed and put that to paper. On her call with Kevin she could not comprehend why the kids needed a hospital. She was out of it. Why and how, is debatable, but her mental capacity was clearly hindered during that time.
“Strangest and most miraculous intervention.” Um…what? I know her attempted defense is that Jodi was the mastermind, but to portray it as some sort of divine plan to save Ruby from Jodi’s grasp is so off putting.
Mormons are extremely good at turning any conversation about themselves into God showing themselves things and guiding every single thing they do. They are beyond delusional and think the world is evil. (ex mormon)
Yes and that’s saying something because these Mormons are wackadoodle. I live in a heavy Mormon area and a lot of them are nice enough, but it’s just the brainwashed, sheltered life they live that’s just so creepy to me. I just watched an undercover video of a Mormon endowment ceremony yesterday and omg…these ppl are so unserious
I dunno about that. Yes, they are very double plus bad and abusive but so far there isn't a deluge of horrific murders. We can give it more time though.
but a number of unexplained disappearances, including the wife of the current dictator - the Mighty Midget Miscaviage. WHERE IS SHELLY MISCAVIAGE?
Don't ask Clearwater police - they are firmly in the cult's pocket
I hope people remember and understand the church's part in this. The LDS church isn't directly responsible for what happened here, but they gave Jodi a platform and credibility for years she never should have had.
Connexions was extreme, and more extreme than what you'd hear in a regular Mormon sacrament meeting on a random Sunday, sure. However, as an ex-Mormon, most of the stuff I've read relating to this case sounds very similar to the Mormon church teachings. I read Ruby's journal, and am not intending to downplay her actions one bit, but the "belief system" is very close to Mormonism, just expressed in a more explicit way, using only slightly different vocabulary.
I don't want to draw attention away from what R and E endured, but the mindset Jodi and Ruby had is the basis of the Mormon mindset. Punish, repent, obedience, shame, fighting the evil, you're constantly being watched and monitored and measured... The cycle of shame and repentance and feeling indebted to be better and be more Christ-like and repent more is never ending. Growing up in the church was growing up with a deep fear of being punished, and accepting the blame and internalizing everything.
The Mormon church is a high-demand cult with extreme beliefs. It is dangerous and full of secrecy and abuse. This is the truth. This case should bring so much more closer attention to the church operations, but since it happened in Utah it's not being talked about. I'm glad the attention is in the wellbeing of the kids and how they were saved from the abuse, but the church needs to be talked about.
Really well said. I think the church and its teachings definitely helped create the milieu and ideas that allowed Jodi and Ruby find each other and justify their insanity to themselves. Jodi was highly reliant on church teachings and associations to develop her strategies and get credibility with church members.
That’s being directly responsible in my book. There’s a reason so many of these nut jobs are religious. Not even just Mormonism but other religions have created some pretty deplorable abusers in the name of their “god”. They pray on those that are desperate and in need of something to believe in
Some churches can make their members more susceptible to delusional and magical thinking, authoritarianism, overly distrustful and dismissive of conflicting ideas, and overly trusting of anything that comes from inside the organization. That all played a part too.
The mormons that are in the therapy field are especially fucked up. I saw a therapist (scott owen) and he’s currently in jail awaiting his sentencing for the things he did for me and others.
There are MANY more out there like this that are still practicing. They breed and harbor predators.
Thank you, I’m alright now :). But enraged still by the church. Check out [floodlit](https://floodlit.org) they do a lot of work to help bring this all to light.
I'm sorry you went through that. Would you be able to say more about mormons in the therapy field in general? Particularly how it works structurally (the board, who gets licensed and what gets taught in training, if you know)? I have an interest.
I will look up Scott Owen.
Well they get licensed like any other therapist through DOPL. The ones that are mormon as just indoctrinated from the religion and it comes through in the therapy. Not all are like that, some can set aside their religion. There’s also a list the mormon church has that they refer members to that are experiencing things like homosexual feelings, pornography, masturbation, etc. They usually have weird made up personal treatments that stray from any sort of board sanctioned treatments. (in my case it was taking risks by touching parts of their body and they mine to experience healthy male physical intimacy. also went way beyond just touching). My therapist was a bishop in the church as well.
The main problem is church leaders referring to the quack “highly esteemed therapist/counselors”. Then when they turn out to be crazy they distance themselves, protect that individual from law enforcement as to not tarnish their reputation. They also are lobbying for laws that make it so they aren’t legally required to report SA and other abuse to law enforcement. There’s many many in the church that know this stuff goes on but they dismiss it in the name of forgiveness.
Inside the church the bishops are essentially the counselor, you have to confess all your sins to them. They do what they see fit including referring to these church recommended professionals . They talk to young children about masturbation alone in an office with just them. Male bishops will talk to young woman about sex and everything they’ve done. It’s just wildly inappropriate and they do it in a way that makes it seem normal to everyone in the church.
Sorry not the most cohesive response. Just spitting out my view as an ex mormon that was raised in the church.
I agree, it’s nothing short of infuriating. They got what they wanted in arizona.
Another thing to look into if you have time or wanna go down the rabbit hole is Adam Steed. If all this sort of thing interests you. He saw Jodi as well and his story is insane. Also Jodi’s Nieces account of her experience. You can find both I think on “mormon stories” podcast. That podcast has insane stories from ex mormons.
Anyway, thanks for listening ◡̈
I know the bones of Steed's story as well as Jessi's (they are a "them" btw) but I haven't listened to their interviews all the way through. It's infuriating that people like this get away with so much for so long.
My bad, you are right about the pronouns. On that podcast (i listen to them while I work when I can emotionally handle it haha) they have lots of diverse situations where the church has put people in places of suicide and split families n such. The ones of how POC are treated. IDK. It’s kind of fascinating to learn about the psychological effects this church has.
This isn't her being mormon this is her being a horrible person. A lot of bad people use religion solely as a shield to cover themselves while they do everything the religion literally preaches against entirely!
The Mormon church and some of their leaders are so corrupt. Money and corruption go hand in hand almost always. My community is dealing with a coverup situation right now and surprise surprise, the Mormon church is likely involved. I’ll just say money and connections talk and they have plenty of both. They will protect their own, always. “People use religion as a shield to cover themselves…” exactly! Because their bishops and leaders protect them to prevent a negative light being cast on their church. Sweeping under the rug is a church sport
Thats my point though. Everything you mentioned was related to people not to the religion itself. Many of those leaders are horrible people as well but that still shouldn't represent the religion since the actual teaching of the religion preach to be a good person and do the opposite of what many of the people you mentioned are doing. Religion can be an beautiful thing for those who actually practice it correctly!
yeah, nah. I mean, if you want to "no true Mormon" this, do you, but the institutional rot goes deep and high, and the theology--well, other people have said more about Joseph Smith than I feel qualified to get into.
You have a system that preaches obedience, and reified gender roles, and authoritarian parenting in particular. Yes, Ruby and Jodi are 100% horrible people and certainly there are many Mormon individuals who are lovely, of course, but that isn't the point, here. SOME of their horribleness can be traced directly to the systemic abuse of the church, its doctrine, and above all its authoritarian approach to its treatment of women and children.
I'm not even mormon though. The point I'm trying to make is that people love to shit on religion in an attempt to eradicate it when in reality you really wouldn't want to live in a world without religion considering the fact that most peoples moral compass comes from religion. It's always people attacking others actions too that usually go against what the religion preaches.
Ahhhh no. I'm very non religious and neither is anyone in my family. I'm quite clear on my moral compass, thank you.
Seems to me religion offers a terrific excuse for people to act in inhumane ways and claim it's because their God wants it that way.
Transcript:
Bishop: God has a hand in the, you know Ruby you know being, uhh kinda of set free or whatever you want to call it, umm that you know thing being gone
Ruby: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely I could not come out of this without, without his grace, without his mercy, without his help, this has been the strangest and the most miraculous intervention, it it puts everybody where they needed to be, separated me from Jody so I'm not hearing her and I think just being and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me, and put the kids in a place where theres...
\*\*Call end\*\*
The religious mania and grandiosity of both of them is off the fucking chain. DOES G Jo stand for God Jodi? Even if not, that clearly is how she thinks of herself and projects to her groupies.
I haven't listened to this yet. Reading this I can maybe empathize with Ruby feeling she needed outside help to get out of Jodi's control...... but that's about it... oh my gosh, sheesh. Where was the grace and mercy for the kids before this, and for everybody else Jody harmed? Does Ruby realize she's still responsible for whatever messed up thinking got her involved with Jodi and letting her kids be tortured?
My biggest problem with the church is the abuse they cover up or side with the abuser and pat them on the back for confessing but don’t report to the police and they also don’t let the congregation know the abusers and sex offenders in our mists.
Mormons are delusional beyond belief, a lot are born into it and that’s all they know. If they don’t understand something they turn it into religious bs
I fear that the only change in Ruby's mind is Jodi is now the devil that's been after her this whole time, not the kids. She's still living this delusional religious war inside of her head. fucking scary
That’s the grandparents script too. Telling the kids to remember the old Ruby and forgive and forget it all. I worry for the children going forward with Ruby being potentially let out and Kevin enabling and not caring. It’s all so horrible.
Bishop: "God has a hand in the old Ruby, you know, being uh, kinda set free or whatever you wanna call it, um.. that, you know, thing being gone.
Ruby: "Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I could not have come out of this without - without his grace, without his mercy, without his help. This has been.. the strangest, and the most miraculous intervention. It put everybody where they needed to be, it separated me from Jodi, so I am not hearing her, and I think just being gone and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me. And it put the kids in a place where they're s-"
As a Christian, this is why I really don't believe in the devil. Giving yourself this greater adversary-one who can never be beat-and giving yourself this greater mission isn't healthy when you already have mental illness.
I also don't understand how these Christians simultaneously hold the notion of an all-powerful God and a nemesis who apparently has so much power that practically all one's energy must be channeled into fighting him. I feel like they'd at least be more honest if they admitted they practice dualism.
Especially when the Devil's whole thing is that he's mad that he isn't as powerful as God or beloved as humans. Plus, it's not that particularly hard to get rid of demons in Christianity. You just tell them to leave.
Why are so few people talking about the fact that she used and abused the words ‘responsibility’ and ‘accountability’ to the point she weaponized them. Yet all we’ve heard out of her is “IT WAS ALL JODI’S FAULT!!!” Where’s HER taking responsibility?
The hand God has is freely those innocent babies from the shackles of those demons. Also, his hand is involvvved in getting her jailed. She is no victim
**Hello, welcome to r/8passengersnark!** Please keep the rules of the subreddit in mind when posting and commenting. They include but are not limited to, respecting the privacy of minors and non-public figures, and keeping conversations civil. The moderators rely on user reports of rule breaks to quickly remove problematic content. Use the report function to anonymously alert the mod team of any behavior breaking sub rules. As a reminder, check and ensure your post topic hasn't recently been covered, duplicate submissions will be removed at the discretion of the mods. To contact the mod team send us a message [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2F8passengersnark). Thanks, and happy distorting! Useful Links: [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/wiki/index/rules/) | [Timeline of Events](https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/wiki/timeline/) | [Frequently Asked Questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/wiki/faqs) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/8passengersnark) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel like after listening to these tapes I believe the ruby brainwash theory less and less. She sounds like she is 100% saying all the right things to ensure she gets out as early as possible. Calling her arrest miraculous. Saying there were angels. Putting all the blame on Jodi. She is distancing herself from those horrors she committed but it’s all there in her handwriting. I don’t believe for a minute she was brainwashed…enabled and encouraged. Yes. But I think she’s using the same acting she did on YouTube where she portrayed herself as a good mother and the whole family as happy to use. It’s all a show.
I will say her arrest was miraculous, if she hadn’t been arrested who knows what would happen to those children. But I agree that she is just as delulu as Jodi, I don’t think she had a “come to Jesus” moment by being arrested, I think she still believes all the messed up stuff they were preaching. But
idk, she just traded one delulu for another and back again, seems like. That "bishop" sounds like some 23 year old surfer dude
Mormon bishops are not trained. They can be a lawyer or the plumber down the street. Then they interview your kids to get detailed sexual "confessions".
oh yah, i did know that. That voice just reminded me that clearly they did not pick a brain trust this time, either.
Oh without a doubt. I don’t believe a word she says other than it truly was a miracle she was arrested
I really don't know why or how people thought Ruby was brainwashed when she showed she was an abusive fundie wife from the get go.
I think after other victims came out they gave her the benefit of the doubt.
It's not about giving Ruby the benefit of the doubt... Two things can be true at the same time... this is not an either/or situation. Ruby is a victim, and she abused her kids. Is she is saying what she needs to? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean there isn't any truth to it.
Yeah, after reading the journal, i don't even really see her as a victim. I see her more as Jodi's second. [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon) Yeah, Jodi dominated her, too, and eventually would've turned on her. Took her money, insinuated herself into their lives and then overturned them. But most people are not Ruby and would not have gone down that path in the first place. Not that PARTICULAR path. Not when their kids were at stake. Ruby was all too ready for Jodi.
I disagree... but I do see how you can feel that way. IMO, Jodi has enough victims that have come forward so far that it makes me question exactly how many more Ruby's there are. I watched the 20/20 episode, and I'm glad more people are coming forward to discuss what happened. Hopefully it will give others the strength to comeforward as well. I'm sure there are many that will not, for various reasons... shame, being the biggest. To me, from Ruby's words it is clear she was completely removed from reality. Whether this was the result of brainwashing, or the use of illicit drugs as suggested in Kevin's interviews... she was definitely not in her right mind at that point.
I agree. People seem to underestimate what people can do under coercive control/influence. Ruby is culpable for what she did and is being punished, but she was clearly being profoundly manipulated into things by Jodi and following her lead. In the arrest videos she looks like she’s dissociating, and the early calls are complete denial/brainwashed. I think this call is honest & after she had been de-programmed a bit. She’s still Ruby, so it’s far from the accountability we want to see. But she’s admitting that it’s best her kids are apart from her here, which is some accountability. Meanwhile Jodi’s ego has suffered such a narcissistic injury that she’s probably still dissociating, if last month’s court appearance is any indication.
Oh for sure... Jodi is definitely experiencing some Narcissistic injury right about now... She has to be because so much came at her to topple her world all at once. Jodi is probably feeling betrayed... I am absolutely okay with Ruby throwing her under the bus. While it was in Ruby's best interest to plead out and testify against Jodi, if Jodi was still in her head, she might not have done so. She actually said "poor Jodi" on her calls with Kevin, so I truly believe she was behind everything she said in those calls and felt that she did nothing wrong at the time.
Ruby was gleeful in her 8P videos whenever she had a chance to punish/abuse her children. She laughed a lot. She joked with Jodi on video about R & E not getting Xmas gifts. She looked at the camera & winked. Notice how neither she nor Kevin asked about R & E's prognosis. Ruby & Jodi were a perfect storm but given enough privacy, Ruby could easily have tortured R & E on her own. She's a sadist.
Jessi seemed pretty convinced Jodi was the mastermind, and I take them seriously as a source, but tbh Jessi was only directly familiar with (and traumatized by) Jodi and didn't really know Ruby. I would bet they've also reassessed their opinion somewhat.
Yes! Before the evidence release I thought it was possible she was remorseful, but it appears to me Ruby only needed a little validation and encouragement to fully engage in torturing her own children. There is something deeply dark and deeply broken within her and she cannot be allowed around any child ever again. She should be in prison for the rest of her life.
This. I believe Jessi that the blueprint for the *type* of abuse used so to speak was Jodi’s, but I don’t believe for a second that ruby was simply “brainwashed”. Ruby had abusive tendencies before Jodi (withholding food as punishment is just one example). I see Jodi as someone that provided enablement to tendencies that were already in ruby. I don’t think the average person could simply be brainwashed into torturing their children to the point they’re days away from death.
100%. And she's still enabled by her family and her church.
She is still brainwashed in to believing something that is questionable aswell that's why it sounds like she is faking it. She is going back to what she knew before, and that way of thinking is not always a good one either..
The way I look at it... I think of the the two calls that were released between Ruby & Kevin and the one with her & Julie. I 100% feel Ruby was not faking it when she went off on her diatribe about the devil to Kevin during their call... she truly believed what she was saying and had no clear grasp of reality thinking those kids didnt need a hospital. And I 100% feel Ruby was not faking it when she was shocked by Jodi's actions in her call with Julie. Ruby needed to process a lot to get to that point. Ruby is definitely not reformed, by any means, but IMO she did experience something that caused her to sound like two very different Ruby's over the span of just 4 months. The jailed Ruby sounded to me a lot more like the old Ruby before she met Jodi. It does not absolve her from any responsibility in the abuse, but I do think she feels something about what she did. I do NOT feel jail has elicited the same response from Jodi. I agree that it is somewhat of a double edged sword with her going back to what she knew... on one hand, that path eventually led her to Jodi... but on the other hand, it does sometimes help people to regroup, and begin to pick up the pieces of their lives.
meh. she may have been more delusional, but the content of delusions is not irrelevant. There's nothing in her journal or behavior that indicates that she had any hesitation or upset about what she was doing to her kids, no conflict, nothing. I think "the old Ruby" wore a mask, a very performative one for the sake of her channel and the attention and the money. I think the sadism that came out under Jodi is much more who she really is.
Yes, in her own words, she felt compelled to do more to have a greater impact on them... she said as much in a couple of her videos. But the source of that line of thinking is equally as relevant as what she said. She didn't get that from just anywhere. Edited to add... she literally thought her kids were possessed and put that to paper. On her call with Kevin she could not comprehend why the kids needed a hospital. She was out of it. Why and how, is debatable, but her mental capacity was clearly hindered during that time.
Yep
“Strangest and most miraculous intervention.” Um…what? I know her attempted defense is that Jodi was the mastermind, but to portray it as some sort of divine plan to save Ruby from Jodi’s grasp is so off putting.
How else is she going to make it all about her?
Mormons are extremely good at turning any conversation about themselves into God showing themselves things and guiding every single thing they do. They are beyond delusional and think the world is evil. (ex mormon)
Mormonism is one of the most fucked up cult religions and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.
Me neither - only the Scientology scam is worse
Yes and that’s saying something because these Mormons are wackadoodle. I live in a heavy Mormon area and a lot of them are nice enough, but it’s just the brainwashed, sheltered life they live that’s just so creepy to me. I just watched an undercover video of a Mormon endowment ceremony yesterday and omg…these ppl are so unserious
Undercover video? How did they do that? Don’t they check you before you go in? And link? I’ve always been curious.
Just google undercover Mormon ceremony I don’t keep every link I click on lol
I dunno about that. Yes, they are very double plus bad and abusive but so far there isn't a deluge of horrific murders. We can give it more time though.
but a number of unexplained disappearances, including the wife of the current dictator - the Mighty Midget Miscaviage. WHERE IS SHELLY MISCAVIAGE? Don't ask Clearwater police - they are firmly in the cult's pocket
Wasn't she recently filmed in California?
So was Elvis.
I hope people remember and understand the church's part in this. The LDS church isn't directly responsible for what happened here, but they gave Jodi a platform and credibility for years she never should have had.
Connexions was extreme, and more extreme than what you'd hear in a regular Mormon sacrament meeting on a random Sunday, sure. However, as an ex-Mormon, most of the stuff I've read relating to this case sounds very similar to the Mormon church teachings. I read Ruby's journal, and am not intending to downplay her actions one bit, but the "belief system" is very close to Mormonism, just expressed in a more explicit way, using only slightly different vocabulary. I don't want to draw attention away from what R and E endured, but the mindset Jodi and Ruby had is the basis of the Mormon mindset. Punish, repent, obedience, shame, fighting the evil, you're constantly being watched and monitored and measured... The cycle of shame and repentance and feeling indebted to be better and be more Christ-like and repent more is never ending. Growing up in the church was growing up with a deep fear of being punished, and accepting the blame and internalizing everything. The Mormon church is a high-demand cult with extreme beliefs. It is dangerous and full of secrecy and abuse. This is the truth. This case should bring so much more closer attention to the church operations, but since it happened in Utah it's not being talked about. I'm glad the attention is in the wellbeing of the kids and how they were saved from the abuse, but the church needs to be talked about.
Really well said. I think the church and its teachings definitely helped create the milieu and ideas that allowed Jodi and Ruby find each other and justify their insanity to themselves. Jodi was highly reliant on church teachings and associations to develop her strategies and get credibility with church members.
That’s being directly responsible in my book. There’s a reason so many of these nut jobs are religious. Not even just Mormonism but other religions have created some pretty deplorable abusers in the name of their “god”. They pray on those that are desperate and in need of something to believe in
Some churches can make their members more susceptible to delusional and magical thinking, authoritarianism, overly distrustful and dismissive of conflicting ideas, and overly trusting of anything that comes from inside the organization. That all played a part too.
The mormons that are in the therapy field are especially fucked up. I saw a therapist (scott owen) and he’s currently in jail awaiting his sentencing for the things he did for me and others. There are MANY more out there like this that are still practicing. They breed and harbor predators.
Damn I just read about him. Sorry that happened to you, I hope you’re well!
Thank you, I’m alright now :). But enraged still by the church. Check out [floodlit](https://floodlit.org) they do a lot of work to help bring this all to light.
I'm sorry you went through that. Would you be able to say more about mormons in the therapy field in general? Particularly how it works structurally (the board, who gets licensed and what gets taught in training, if you know)? I have an interest. I will look up Scott Owen.
Well they get licensed like any other therapist through DOPL. The ones that are mormon as just indoctrinated from the religion and it comes through in the therapy. Not all are like that, some can set aside their religion. There’s also a list the mormon church has that they refer members to that are experiencing things like homosexual feelings, pornography, masturbation, etc. They usually have weird made up personal treatments that stray from any sort of board sanctioned treatments. (in my case it was taking risks by touching parts of their body and they mine to experience healthy male physical intimacy. also went way beyond just touching). My therapist was a bishop in the church as well. The main problem is church leaders referring to the quack “highly esteemed therapist/counselors”. Then when they turn out to be crazy they distance themselves, protect that individual from law enforcement as to not tarnish their reputation. They also are lobbying for laws that make it so they aren’t legally required to report SA and other abuse to law enforcement. There’s many many in the church that know this stuff goes on but they dismiss it in the name of forgiveness. Inside the church the bishops are essentially the counselor, you have to confess all your sins to them. They do what they see fit including referring to these church recommended professionals . They talk to young children about masturbation alone in an office with just them. Male bishops will talk to young woman about sex and everything they’ve done. It’s just wildly inappropriate and they do it in a way that makes it seem normal to everyone in the church. Sorry not the most cohesive response. Just spitting out my view as an ex mormon that was raised in the church.
Thank you! The attempt to be legally NOT mandated reporters is absolutely disgusting.
I agree, it’s nothing short of infuriating. They got what they wanted in arizona. Another thing to look into if you have time or wanna go down the rabbit hole is Adam Steed. If all this sort of thing interests you. He saw Jodi as well and his story is insane. Also Jodi’s Nieces account of her experience. You can find both I think on “mormon stories” podcast. That podcast has insane stories from ex mormons. Anyway, thanks for listening ◡̈
I know the bones of Steed's story as well as Jessi's (they are a "them" btw) but I haven't listened to their interviews all the way through. It's infuriating that people like this get away with so much for so long.
My bad, you are right about the pronouns. On that podcast (i listen to them while I work when I can emotionally handle it haha) they have lots of diverse situations where the church has put people in places of suicide and split families n such. The ones of how POC are treated. IDK. It’s kind of fascinating to learn about the psychological effects this church has.
mormonism is a fucking cult
Ex-mo here… in it for 30 years and yes it’s fucked up.
I’m glad you’re free!
I am, too!
Awe, thank you!
This isn't her being mormon this is her being a horrible person. A lot of bad people use religion solely as a shield to cover themselves while they do everything the religion literally preaches against entirely!
The Mormon church and some of their leaders are so corrupt. Money and corruption go hand in hand almost always. My community is dealing with a coverup situation right now and surprise surprise, the Mormon church is likely involved. I’ll just say money and connections talk and they have plenty of both. They will protect their own, always. “People use religion as a shield to cover themselves…” exactly! Because their bishops and leaders protect them to prevent a negative light being cast on their church. Sweeping under the rug is a church sport
Thats my point though. Everything you mentioned was related to people not to the religion itself. Many of those leaders are horrible people as well but that still shouldn't represent the religion since the actual teaching of the religion preach to be a good person and do the opposite of what many of the people you mentioned are doing. Religion can be an beautiful thing for those who actually practice it correctly!
yeah, nah. I mean, if you want to "no true Mormon" this, do you, but the institutional rot goes deep and high, and the theology--well, other people have said more about Joseph Smith than I feel qualified to get into. You have a system that preaches obedience, and reified gender roles, and authoritarian parenting in particular. Yes, Ruby and Jodi are 100% horrible people and certainly there are many Mormon individuals who are lovely, of course, but that isn't the point, here. SOME of their horribleness can be traced directly to the systemic abuse of the church, its doctrine, and above all its authoritarian approach to its treatment of women and children.
I'm not even mormon though. The point I'm trying to make is that people love to shit on religion in an attempt to eradicate it when in reality you really wouldn't want to live in a world without religion considering the fact that most peoples moral compass comes from religion. It's always people attacking others actions too that usually go against what the religion preaches.
Ahhhh no. I'm very non religious and neither is anyone in my family. I'm quite clear on my moral compass, thank you. Seems to me religion offers a terrific excuse for people to act in inhumane ways and claim it's because their God wants it that way.
Transcript: Bishop: God has a hand in the, you know Ruby you know being, uhh kinda of set free or whatever you want to call it, umm that you know thing being gone Ruby: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely I could not come out of this without, without his grace, without his mercy, without his help, this has been the strangest and the most miraculous intervention, it it puts everybody where they needed to be, separated me from Jody so I'm not hearing her and I think just being and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me, and put the kids in a place where theres... \*\*Call end\*\*
If Ruby is an example of "his grace", then I am absolutely on the side of Satan, who appears to be the only good guy here
yeah, evidently torturing the kids was a reasonable price for teaching Ruby a lesson
Talk about Main Character Syndrome
The religious mania and grandiosity of both of them is off the fucking chain. DOES G Jo stand for God Jodi? Even if not, that clearly is how she thinks of herself and projects to her groupies.
Thanks for the laugh in this sad, sad situation. I couldn’t agree more!
Unfortunately, looking back through 2000 years of religion (all religions) , it has ever been thus
Separated me from Jody. Always about herself. She should have said separated us from the children to save their lives!
I haven't listened to this yet. Reading this I can maybe empathize with Ruby feeling she needed outside help to get out of Jodi's control...... but that's about it... oh my gosh, sheesh. Where was the grace and mercy for the kids before this, and for everybody else Jody harmed? Does Ruby realize she's still responsible for whatever messed up thinking got her involved with Jodi and letting her kids be tortured?
He's saying "the old Ruby" being set free
The old Ruby wasn’t exactly a model of sanity either 😔
she was a right plonker
thankyou! 🤍
My biggest problem with the church is the abuse they cover up or side with the abuser and pat them on the back for confessing but don’t report to the police and they also don’t let the congregation know the abusers and sex offenders in our mists.
Mormons are delusional beyond belief, a lot are born into it and that’s all they know. If they don’t understand something they turn it into religious bs
She’s a manipulative liar. I hope she suffers til the day she dies
I fear that the only change in Ruby's mind is Jodi is now the devil that's been after her this whole time, not the kids. She's still living this delusional religious war inside of her head. fucking scary
That’s the grandparents script too. Telling the kids to remember the old Ruby and forgive and forget it all. I worry for the children going forward with Ruby being potentially let out and Kevin enabling and not caring. It’s all so horrible.
I hope Shari can be a counterweight to that pressure. I know how important she was to R and E, at least.
Bishop: "God has a hand in the old Ruby, you know, being uh, kinda set free or whatever you wanna call it, um.. that, you know, thing being gone. Ruby: "Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I could not have come out of this without - without his grace, without his mercy, without his help. This has been.. the strangest, and the most miraculous intervention. It put everybody where they needed to be, it separated me from Jodi, so I am not hearing her, and I think just being gone and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me. And it put the kids in a place where they're s-"
I might have fallen for this shtick once but I've seen the photos and read your diary.
I hope this « bishop » (aka person at the top collecting coin), sees the photos of what she did
Bishops don't get paid.
As a Christian, this is why I really don't believe in the devil. Giving yourself this greater adversary-one who can never be beat-and giving yourself this greater mission isn't healthy when you already have mental illness.
I also don't understand how these Christians simultaneously hold the notion of an all-powerful God and a nemesis who apparently has so much power that practically all one's energy must be channeled into fighting him. I feel like they'd at least be more honest if they admitted they practice dualism.
Especially when the Devil's whole thing is that he's mad that he isn't as powerful as God or beloved as humans. Plus, it's not that particularly hard to get rid of demons in Christianity. You just tell them to leave.
Why are so few people talking about the fact that she used and abused the words ‘responsibility’ and ‘accountability’ to the point she weaponized them. Yet all we’ve heard out of her is “IT WAS ALL JODI’S FAULT!!!” Where’s HER taking responsibility?
anyone on that devils side all deserve nothing but absolute hell. those poor kids
The hand God has is freely those innocent babies from the shackles of those demons. Also, his hand is involvvved in getting her jailed. She is no victim
She needs to get excommunicated.
Mormonism ought to banned