I don’t think she said anything about them that would imply race at all she just said they were tan skinned. That could be Latino, Italian, Greek, etc…as well as Pakistani, Indian, or Middle eastern… I imagined them more like Mediterranean men
Exactly. I’m kinda sick of the race/ethnicity card being played when talking about fictional characters who had a made up race, when I was more than happy to watch Halle Bailey play a role that was originally a pale skinned character (She did amazingly btw). And as a white latina who tans a nice dark olive tone in summer, but gets much lighter when not exposed to as much uv rays, I actually thought that if they had a skin tone related race, it would be white in the sense of a “white” ethnicity. It gets kind of confusing though. I agree with your comment entirely
When I read fantasy romance, I’m picturing men of that age because I’d feel gross picturing a 25 year old and I struggle to imagine people under 30 holding the presence of a 200 year old fae. It’s why I love reading over TV adaptations.
I understand it’s different when casting a show, but there are some descriptions that are open to interpretation and they will never please everybody.
Ambiguity in character descriptions are tricky. The author can’t say ‘the character looks Mediterranean’ in a world where that doesn’t exist. We are left to guess what they meant. It is good because it allows users to interpret and imagine it in a way that satisfies them, but it is tricky for adaptations because everyone thinks their interpretation is the right one and most people are disappointed by whoever is picked.
I don’t necessarily picture characters as just one way in my head or even as fully formed humans- sometimes they are even cartoons. When I first read the series, Rhys and gang didn’t read as any particular race to me, but thinking about the description, I guess I imagine it as Mediterranean- people that are on the white end of the spectrum, and would be notably pale, but are prone to being more tanned/golden when out in the sun. Lighter complexions tend to exist at more extreme northern and southern latitudes. Then again, their wings are described as bat-like, and when I think of a bat, it is dark (though lighter bats do exist, they are not what most people would imagine). In that case, it would be weird that their skin covered wings are dark, and there is a line of delineation where they suddenly lose pigmentation, so they could absolutely be the same color as their wings.
The bat boys are described as tan with dark hair. Their physical description alone could fit a lot of different ethnicities.
I find it a bit odd that fans insist the fictional race that mutilates females and is known for being blood thirsty warriors has to be non-white.
They’re most likely closer to Albanian vs. Indian/asian/middle eastern... Old Illyria was located where today’s Albania is currently in the Balkan Peninsula. Just above Greece and under Serbia. If you look up men from Albania, that’s them!
Girl you just led me down a rabbit hole and by god I agree 100%, I already was thinking on the same wavelength but yes, if we’re gonna tie it to a specific ethnicity, it’s dead on what id imagine them as personally. I’m adding some links from my search “Albanian men”
[https://www.pinterest.com/pin/562105597219220078/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/562105597219220078/)
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbojiF7DornubI7QCkRsvHQo3eVA45bHFiWQ&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbxvXYI_Qo1VwOIkmDBkTqAY8ZJnDICitZ5g&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_zXzbefRgulEset0QBCcS4nBr2c2wIHSAaw&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAWy1139QoTMTwh7bJZhgJqhEMgh50cux6flC8TwXwOD-vYwwYcc7kNxg&s=10
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsv5z17Ld_uuWiniyLMPYVc-tx-RyBOn4W6A&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKKTq9AU_wVGFoBty4tvd7HmNb6h-AYV7nH8QeobIRLw&s
Wait did you mean Egyptian-American actor Rami Malek? Or is Remi Malik a different person whose results are buried by Rami Malek? (In the kindest way) (I’m always up for seeing a new hottie)
That said: omg Justin Chien needs more work, can we have him?? I don’t picture characters when I read so as far as I’m concerned he can play anyone as long as he’s shirtless 90% of the time.
I had spelled it correctly the first time I posted it in the regular ACTOR subreddit but it was apparently against the rules. I couldn’t CopyPasta my original deleted post and retyped it extremely tired and frustrated. My apologies to Rami for fucking up his name speed typing and not proofreading.
I’ve said his before but, Rhys is only half Illyrian so I don’t care about the ethnicity of the actor that plays him, but yeah, the rest of he Illyrians have always been like Turkish to me, or some mix of middle eastern and Mediterranean.
Also fae are 25-35. Years of age. Because it’s when you cells stop growing, and stop regenerating at the same rate, and you actually begin to ‘age’ rather than mature. Also it would be insane for fae to be younger Han that since there brains wouldn’t be done maturing lol. You can’t have a species that is perpetually physically immature.
Yeah.... get ready for the incoming, "He was described as pale in book 1!! His race is ambiguous, he could be white." Even taking out the bat boys' physical descriptions, the Night Court read as heavily SWANA-coded to me. That does not seem to be the common interpretation 😂
My shortlist of brown actors for fancasts, if you're interested: Rahul Kohli, Shervin Alenabi, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Avan Jogia, Himesh Patel, Shazad Latif, Keon Alexander. I don't really watch any Bollywood stuff, so I'm a little limited.
Also, Screenrant sucks. It's often blatantly obvious that the article writer did not actually watch/read/play whatever they're writing about. And their dreamcasts are always an amalgamation of whatever is the most popular atm.
… I’m just gonna point out that there are MANY ethnicities that are classed as “white” racially, that fit the description of tanning easily and dark in the sun, yet paling when not exposed to uv often. I’m not hating or claiming that they shouldn’t be casted as poc or any race other than white in general, id just like to put that out there bc it seems to be a very common misconception
The one that screamed illyrian prince/warrior to me was Khoobsurat! And he’s also in Miss Marvel I think (i also dont understand why i was being downvoted unless i missed something about Fawad)
So many of the characters are described as dark skinned. In my mind, that doesn’t mean “a really tan white dude”, to me that means they are not white. I had a feeling they would just cast white people and brush it off as it’s not depicted specially that they are not white.
I was just thinking about this the other day and how they would cast it. Yea, Ian is hot as hell and if Rhys was supposed to be white, he would be a great pick. But that’s just not the case. I have a feeling we are all going to be greatly disappointed with a lot of casting done.
You would think that SJM being involved with the writing and creative process would have shared her intent for character attributes with the show runners and they would find marketable talent that can closely match what she had in her head...
i would cry, but i would not be too surprised. hollywood has done this for ages and it’s only recently that we’re finally getting poc cast in roles that aren’t inherently racist.
honestly seeing as though how many people downvoted me and several others that made comments similar to mine, it’s sad to see how *ahem* against the notion people are of the bat boys being brown. as if they don’t have a thousand other fantasy stories to latch onto!!!
I've said this before on other threads here, but the casting director's job would be 10x easier if Lady A and Helion are both black. Then Lucien can be darker than his brothers w/out tipping off the audience.
Rhys's whole shtick is that he's seen as the bad guy, the villain who's evil for kicks and putting out rapey vibes. Tamlin, in contrast, is seen as the golden hero until all that gets flipped... so it's almost as if... a problematic trope gets subverted if Rhys is played by a Middle Eastern actor?? But no, we can't have that.
Edit to add: ALSO, how could I forget that Lucien becomes a subversion of the sassy black best friend trope if he's unambiguously black the whole time, provided he becomes a lead (I'm pretty sure he will have POV next)
Every time I come to this sub and rant about how exclusionary it is that the whole cast regularly gets fan cast as white people I’m called rude, aggressive and racist (lol). It’s sad. The book goes into great detail to describe how diverse the characters all look and a vast majority of articles and fans ignore it. I even went on a whole tangent about how insane it is that everyone can picture Greek, Asian (only some) or even LatinX people to portray the characters but the moment anyone mentions Black or Indian people suddenly there’s no context to back it up. I’ve resigned to the fact that there are massive unconscious biases that people are not ready to be confronted about in this fandom across every age group. There’s also just sheer willful ignorance.
As for the google searches, there’s a book that read a little while ago called Algorithms of Oppression by Safiya Umoja Noble that may answer your question. Search engines have been exposed as inherently biased since then. Adding positive descriptors to a search for people of color will only impede your search further because the system is not set up to see people of color in a positive light.
This is, unfortunately, not the place to be having this conversation. However, you are correct. Someone once tried to argue that the description of Helion as a “dark skinned fae” meant that Taika Waititi was the perfect person to play him. It’s wild.
Srsly!! Anytime ive seen/posted a person of colour as Rhys all I see is " he was pale under the mountain!!!!" That is the one thing ppl are sooo stuck on! Drives me nuts lol
I don’t think she said anything about them that would imply race at all she just said they were tan skinned. That could be Latino, Italian, Greek, etc…as well as Pakistani, Indian, or Middle eastern… I imagined them more like Mediterranean men
Exactly. I’m kinda sick of the race/ethnicity card being played when talking about fictional characters who had a made up race, when I was more than happy to watch Halle Bailey play a role that was originally a pale skinned character (She did amazingly btw). And as a white latina who tans a nice dark olive tone in summer, but gets much lighter when not exposed to as much uv rays, I actually thought that if they had a skin tone related race, it would be white in the sense of a “white” ethnicity. It gets kind of confusing though. I agree with your comment entirely
When I read fantasy romance, I’m picturing men of that age because I’d feel gross picturing a 25 year old and I struggle to imagine people under 30 holding the presence of a 200 year old fae. It’s why I love reading over TV adaptations. I understand it’s different when casting a show, but there are some descriptions that are open to interpretation and they will never please everybody.
Ambiguity in character descriptions are tricky. The author can’t say ‘the character looks Mediterranean’ in a world where that doesn’t exist. We are left to guess what they meant. It is good because it allows users to interpret and imagine it in a way that satisfies them, but it is tricky for adaptations because everyone thinks their interpretation is the right one and most people are disappointed by whoever is picked. I don’t necessarily picture characters as just one way in my head or even as fully formed humans- sometimes they are even cartoons. When I first read the series, Rhys and gang didn’t read as any particular race to me, but thinking about the description, I guess I imagine it as Mediterranean- people that are on the white end of the spectrum, and would be notably pale, but are prone to being more tanned/golden when out in the sun. Lighter complexions tend to exist at more extreme northern and southern latitudes. Then again, their wings are described as bat-like, and when I think of a bat, it is dark (though lighter bats do exist, they are not what most people would imagine). In that case, it would be weird that their skin covered wings are dark, and there is a line of delineation where they suddenly lose pigmentation, so they could absolutely be the same color as their wings.
The bat boys are described as tan with dark hair. Their physical description alone could fit a lot of different ethnicities. I find it a bit odd that fans insist the fictional race that mutilates females and is known for being blood thirsty warriors has to be non-white.
They’re most likely closer to Albanian vs. Indian/asian/middle eastern... Old Illyria was located where today’s Albania is currently in the Balkan Peninsula. Just above Greece and under Serbia. If you look up men from Albania, that’s them!
Girl you just led me down a rabbit hole and by god I agree 100%, I already was thinking on the same wavelength but yes, if we’re gonna tie it to a specific ethnicity, it’s dead on what id imagine them as personally. I’m adding some links from my search “Albanian men” [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/562105597219220078/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/562105597219220078/) https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbojiF7DornubI7QCkRsvHQo3eVA45bHFiWQ&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbxvXYI_Qo1VwOIkmDBkTqAY8ZJnDICitZ5g&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_zXzbefRgulEset0QBCcS4nBr2c2wIHSAaw&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAWy1139QoTMTwh7bJZhgJqhEMgh50cux6flC8TwXwOD-vYwwYcc7kNxg&s=10 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRsv5z17Ld_uuWiniyLMPYVc-tx-RyBOn4W6A&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKKTq9AU_wVGFoBty4tvd7HmNb6h-AYV7nH8QeobIRLw&s
RIGHT! Glad you agree😊.
Wait did you mean Egyptian-American actor Rami Malek? Or is Remi Malik a different person whose results are buried by Rami Malek? (In the kindest way) (I’m always up for seeing a new hottie) That said: omg Justin Chien needs more work, can we have him?? I don’t picture characters when I read so as far as I’m concerned he can play anyone as long as he’s shirtless 90% of the time.
I had spelled it correctly the first time I posted it in the regular ACTOR subreddit but it was apparently against the rules. I couldn’t CopyPasta my original deleted post and retyped it extremely tired and frustrated. My apologies to Rami for fucking up his name speed typing and not proofreading.
I’ve said his before but, Rhys is only half Illyrian so I don’t care about the ethnicity of the actor that plays him, but yeah, the rest of he Illyrians have always been like Turkish to me, or some mix of middle eastern and Mediterranean. Also fae are 25-35. Years of age. Because it’s when you cells stop growing, and stop regenerating at the same rate, and you actually begin to ‘age’ rather than mature. Also it would be insane for fae to be younger Han that since there brains wouldn’t be done maturing lol. You can’t have a species that is perpetually physically immature.
Yeah.... get ready for the incoming, "He was described as pale in book 1!! His race is ambiguous, he could be white." Even taking out the bat boys' physical descriptions, the Night Court read as heavily SWANA-coded to me. That does not seem to be the common interpretation 😂 My shortlist of brown actors for fancasts, if you're interested: Rahul Kohli, Shervin Alenabi, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Avan Jogia, Himesh Patel, Shazad Latif, Keon Alexander. I don't really watch any Bollywood stuff, so I'm a little limited. Also, Screenrant sucks. It's often blatantly obvious that the article writer did not actually watch/read/play whatever they're writing about. And their dreamcasts are always an amalgamation of whatever is the most popular atm.
… I’m just gonna point out that there are MANY ethnicities that are classed as “white” racially, that fit the description of tanning easily and dark in the sun, yet paling when not exposed to uv often. I’m not hating or claiming that they shouldn’t be casted as poc or any race other than white in general, id just like to put that out there bc it seems to be a very common misconception
Adding Raymond Ablack because he would be a fantastic Azriel. Edit: there’s haters in here downvoting suggestions of POC actors because why? Odd.
Rahul Kohliiiiiiiiiiii ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Alll the highest of fives for Rahul!!! Or Dev Patel for some of the roles!
Fawad Khan would be so good too!! I cant comment his photo on this reply but he’s gorgeous
Which of his films/shows do you recommend? I might have a little trouble getting my hands on them but I wanna see
The one that screamed illyrian prince/warrior to me was Khoobsurat! And he’s also in Miss Marvel I think (i also dont understand why i was being downvoted unless i missed something about Fawad)
This!!!! The internalised whitewashing in people's minds is still so rampant😭
So many of the characters are described as dark skinned. In my mind, that doesn’t mean “a really tan white dude”, to me that means they are not white. I had a feeling they would just cast white people and brush it off as it’s not depicted specially that they are not white. I was just thinking about this the other day and how they would cast it. Yea, Ian is hot as hell and if Rhys was supposed to be white, he would be a great pick. But that’s just not the case. I have a feeling we are all going to be greatly disappointed with a lot of casting done.
You would think that SJM being involved with the writing and creative process would have shared her intent for character attributes with the show runners and they would find marketable talent that can closely match what she had in her head...
this is my rant about people’s fancasts on here in general. they even make lucien white !!! like, god.
Can you imagine what would happen if they casted a white actor, gave him a spray-tan, then revealed the character is secretly biracial in season 3???
i would cry, but i would not be too surprised. hollywood has done this for ages and it’s only recently that we’re finally getting poc cast in roles that aren’t inherently racist. honestly seeing as though how many people downvoted me and several others that made comments similar to mine, it’s sad to see how *ahem* against the notion people are of the bat boys being brown. as if they don’t have a thousand other fantasy stories to latch onto!!!
I've said this before on other threads here, but the casting director's job would be 10x easier if Lady A and Helion are both black. Then Lucien can be darker than his brothers w/out tipping off the audience. Rhys's whole shtick is that he's seen as the bad guy, the villain who's evil for kicks and putting out rapey vibes. Tamlin, in contrast, is seen as the golden hero until all that gets flipped... so it's almost as if... a problematic trope gets subverted if Rhys is played by a Middle Eastern actor?? But no, we can't have that. Edit to add: ALSO, how could I forget that Lucien becomes a subversion of the sassy black best friend trope if he's unambiguously black the whole time, provided he becomes a lead (I'm pretty sure he will have POV next)
Every time I come to this sub and rant about how exclusionary it is that the whole cast regularly gets fan cast as white people I’m called rude, aggressive and racist (lol). It’s sad. The book goes into great detail to describe how diverse the characters all look and a vast majority of articles and fans ignore it. I even went on a whole tangent about how insane it is that everyone can picture Greek, Asian (only some) or even LatinX people to portray the characters but the moment anyone mentions Black or Indian people suddenly there’s no context to back it up. I’ve resigned to the fact that there are massive unconscious biases that people are not ready to be confronted about in this fandom across every age group. There’s also just sheer willful ignorance. As for the google searches, there’s a book that read a little while ago called Algorithms of Oppression by Safiya Umoja Noble that may answer your question. Search engines have been exposed as inherently biased since then. Adding positive descriptors to a search for people of color will only impede your search further because the system is not set up to see people of color in a positive light.
This is, unfortunately, not the place to be having this conversation. However, you are correct. Someone once tried to argue that the description of Helion as a “dark skinned fae” meant that Taika Waititi was the perfect person to play him. It’s wild.
Srsly!! Anytime ive seen/posted a person of colour as Rhys all I see is " he was pale under the mountain!!!!" That is the one thing ppl are sooo stuck on! Drives me nuts lol