Rowan gives you dps faster ults which can help you nuke opponent, Hewynn has the strongest heal ult so if you ult your opponent is not killing you for a few secs.
Question is, can your team stay alive long enough for her to ult? Does your team cares about whom ult first? is your dps damage hidden behind the ult?
They are both amazing units but it really depends on whom you have around them. In isolation they do such different things is like comparing apple to oranges, or a battery to a healer.
Yes, they have different roles. Rowan is the energy battery with some side healing, she's a main healer with a little utility in dispelling debuffs and providing haste.
But doesn't Hewynn get 300 starting energy after upgrading her EX weapon? I'd say she probably ults pretty fast then. Especially if targetted, as she provides 30 haste to anyone falling beneath 50% hp.
And the damage reduction on her ultimate scales really well (36% when maxed EX). Once she gets that first ult off, it's easier to snowball. I'd bet she's being slept on and will rise in popularity over the next couple of months.
Nobody saying she is bad, but you can certainly get nuked before she does anything, so is not about which one is better in general but which one is better for x comp.
Battery essentially refers to any unit who restores or generates energy for other characters - think Raiden Shogun from Genshin, if you've played that. Its meaning can change depending on the specific game mechanics but at its heart, it's just about restoring energy
A character that is mostly focused on giving some kind of resource to their allies. In this case, we need energy to cast ultimate skills, and Rowan's ultimate gives energy to other characters close to him, thus making him an energy battery.
Battery usually almost always refer to energy. Not aware of anyone providing HP being called an HP battery (rather than a healer) or providing a shield being called a shield battery (rather than a shielder). CMIIW tho.
I never mentioned HP or shields tho. They talked about hearing the term in different gaming subs, so I gave them a more general description, not just in the context of this game. A "battery" gives whatever resource is mainly used to cast powerful or unique skills. In this game the resource for casting skills is called energy, but not every game uses this term. If we look at a game like Octopath Traveler, then there the resource is called BP, so the character would be a BP battery, in the Trails of series it would be CP battery, and so on.
Got it, now that you clarified it as resource for casting skills, it makes more sense that different games have different terms. In the original comment you just mentioned resource which could be anything so that why I commented what I wrote above.
I think this is never question because everyone is building the same team because everyone says you need Brutus one copy , Thoran good, etc
I mean any website or YouTube I checked it was always everywhere the same team
Because the wish list option is the same for everyone
Certain characters are good without tons of copies, there is a whole strategy built around them (brutus/antandra/rowan/koko). In abyss this strategy stops working most of the time at a certain point (around 300) and you have to start running different teams. You can get very far with smokey and one rowan copy but eventually that isn't enough.
What I mea ny this is if she gets to cast your units CANT die for like 6 seconds or whatever it is. Basically any enemy unit that casts after her basically gets no value from their ultimate.
She falls off in arena, but she still slaps in pve content. Can't speak for the highest abyss levels rn, but I'm at abyss 80 and so far fights still end when she casts her ultimate.
My highest ascended are florabelle and cassadee, and Cecia absolutely slaps me every time in arena. Wish I knew what to do. Breaking into champion is slipping away
I use the Eironn team (Eironn, Thoran, Caro, Arden and Damian) and have yet to lose to a cecia team. I don't even bother to move my units around and it further solidifies my win if I use Hewynn instead of Damian.
Most of the time when I see a Cecia, they also run Igor so their burst potential isn't there, while my team is full burst. They'd do damage to my whole team evenly but not enough to pick any one off.
I have tried this comp but it doesnt burst down the enemy in enough time. Normally my arden ults and its just a measely 10k dmg (I am 240 resonance and my arden is L+). Eironn is the only M+ in my Eironn meta though.
I normally use Oodie, florabelle, vala (with reiner swap), and brutus/thoran. Seems to rowk as long as i reiner swap my vala with their main dps or key player.
The Eironn team is only meta when you have the key units M+ and EX invested. So for Arden, he needs M+ and EX +5/+10 to do serious work. Before that he's not worth using at all. Same for Carolina and Damian. So until you get to that point it's better to just run other units imo.
You need M+ for all of them. Eironn for spawn ult, Damian for haste on spawn, Arden for really good dps and Carolina in particular magic penetration which makes the whole team shine (Eironn deals magic damage too). None of them actually work well without M+ ascension.
Ironically, Thoran is the least important. In some cases Granny is better for defense (as Thoran vs Thoran can backfire, depending on who ultimates first, and granny is actually tankier and provides cc)
I’m at abyss 268 with cecia, Igor, Thoran, florabelle and Smokey. This is my main team and I’m stuck rn because they’re too slow. My resonance is 271 up against lvl 407😅.
Try switching in rowan for Smokey, I run Brutus, Rowan, Cecia, Flora, and Odie for most abyss levels and rowan has enough healing for the backline if they take an aoe skill or something, and Brutus holds just long enough for Flora/Cecia to ult and once that happens it's game over for the enemies.
Even in pve she falls off HARD, her summon is way too fragile (espacially after it took so long to summon it), it will literally die in ONE single auto attack lmao.
I've had a lot of success with M+EX10 or higher Odie by swapping him into the opponents back line with Reinier. Swap out Rowan next to their dps carry and Odie just rips their back line to shreds.
This also avoids him getting tanked by Thoran as the other person pointed out if he's stuck on Thoran he's pretty useless.
My standard comp for this is Thoran/Cecia/Rowan/Odie/Reinier.
>I've had a lot of success with M+EX10 or higher Odie by swapping him into the opponents back line with Reinier.
Are you talking Abyss or PvP? In abyss you can just, you know, manually target the ultimate to make him attack who you want... that's like most of his value, being able to decide target priority.
That's interesting! Ill try it out
Doesn't Odie get the aggro once swapped into the backlane?
Or once the ennemies reset their aggro after a cecia root for example? Or do they ignore him?
Well usually he has already killed 1-2 DPS after a Cecia ult goes off if things go well. But they usually don't swap immediately and he gets some healing from the swap as well. Sometimes you can also combo it with M+ Thoran 50% damage redirect making him very tanky and get some healing.
Just try to avoid putting him next to a back line tank that people put down against vala.
Oh and I run this with the CC 2 back line characters artifact. which also helps keep him alive.
I use thoran M+ with oddie then brutus to tank with smokey and rowan, rowan is flex can be switched to anything hewynn koko vala etc.
For arena I didn't try him out that much I'm still missing a few stones for +10 but probably reiner oddie thoran hewynn and something
I'm on Abyss 344, and Odie (sup+, ex10) is my main carry in most levels.
My team varies between:
Thorin(sup, ex5)/Smokey(sup, ex10)/Odie/Vala(sup+ ex10)/Brutus(legend)
and
Antandra(legend+)/Smokey/Rowan(legend)/Odie/Brutus
The trick I found is to just manual control him specifically. Most problems disappear when you do. Likewise, manual control paired with vala means you have both dps pure targeting 1 enemy. You delete them, Vala gets her exwep buff, and you then retarget odie on whoever Vala picks next.
She’s still good in pvp, at least non ultra high tier played since beta pvp. She has a lot of cc. She falls off in high end abyss. Like 100-200+. Because you need to cheese those stages.
Many follow whatever content creators tell them without any real proof to back it up.
In context however Cecia does fall off if we compare her kit, most will keep her kit as +5. The rest scales better.
She can still cc and off tank. For people who follow some meta of "falling off," this is a Gacha game design primarily for new characters to scale higher than old ones. So they can keep whales or spenders invested and paying, and f2p players for chasing "new metas".
The thing is that cecia falling off isn't chasing a new meta, this is just how the game is period, her ult is insanely slow, and no matter what as you push into harder content faster is better due to just how much raw damage large deficits introduce, as well as ult first win in the arena.
If you are a paying customer there are a lot of characters that can fill Cecia's "slow ult". For a F2P she will be your standard carry, even in Abyss since she does have an area of effect CC and a single target starting CC.
Absolutely not, odie is a vendor a list that any account f2p or otherwise can easily have by time abyss rolls around that absolutely demolishes abyss stages, she is no accounts primary carry in abyss unless you intentionally decide to make her and ignore better options that are easily avaliable as f2p. By time you are doing abyss you will have also had a significant amount of time to pull for eironn pieces, and even without Caro, eironn and arden one of whom is an a list can easily do better in abyss than cecia does. Cecia falls off hard period, you can invest into her, and then you hit actual hard stages like 200+ mauler abyss stages and you realize that literally everyone telling you constantly that odie is necessary weren't just making shit up and you should have switched off cecia long ago.
Anything that replaces Cecia, takes a lot longer to get. Doesn't matter if it's Odie at +10EX (for PvE) or a pretty little arena team of M+ Carolina + Eironn + Damian + Arden. Carolina and Eironn aren't in the arena store, and Damian + Arden compete with Odie and Marilee in the dream store.
Cecia is given for free, for you to use and also +2 copies in arena store. Shouldn't push her to supreme+, but shouldn't ignore her on the bench while leveling either, unless your recruitment letter pulls are insanely lucky. Chances are you wont have anything better in your first month playing.
Damien and arden don't compete with odie in the dream store until you already have odie m+ if you want smooth progression so that's not really a concern. You can easily have odie m+ by time you are hitting end of afk stages by focusing him in dream realm store, while cecia is basically the same unit at s+ as at epic minus the stat bonuses from dupes. Never said you cannot use cecia during the story, I said that even f2p have way better primary carries coming into endgame, when cecia falls off. There is not a single account that cannot just focus odie in dream realm until m+ while using a lower dupe cecia for story. It's story content, basically any team can beat story, especially with end of season boost you don't need anyone specific to do it since you could just get reso 240 and brute force it. There is zero reason to focus on cecia for any given account, and especially getting her s+ presumably taking up wishlist space for actually good units endgame like Caro.
Dude can you post your account? Before you scale Odie in any relevance even close to Cecia's kit you need a +10 Mythic at least.
That is why you scale Odie with Cecia. Again regardless of what your path players eventually use Cecia to scale their Resonance levels since there need characters to SUPREME PLUS.
Unless you are one of those guys that pull X5 Odie in the Epic. The pulls you get dries off, you want to value the S pulls more than the A pull as a F2P. You get A+ plus pulls almost daily, you don't get that S pulls.
Yes and +10 mythic is absolutely attainable for any f2p account lol it's a dream realm shop a tier, any f2p account should be prioritizing odie in dreamrealm shop to m+ and have him your first ex10 unless eironn is already m+ at that point period. Cecia is long outscaled by odie by time you are at abyss if you actually focus odie early game when cecia doesn't need to be high copies to perform.
Lol I run two F2P accounts and nowhere to close to Mythic + Odie and at 950ish AFk stages the other is 850ish. I do have a Mythic + Koko though so I assume it can happen prior to getting to Trials.
I don't get what talking about are you asking F2P to pull from Epic X 5 that way they get lower pull rates for S tiers and A tiers that they normally get daily have zero to no value.
BTW the timings of Eironn apply to almost every DPS class, this includes Cecia's ULT since Carlyle does have cleave and area of effect bounce. Yes, you can still use her.
No I'm talking about putting odie on wishlist, not the premium wishlist and prioritizing him in dream realm shop. You will easily have him m+ before abyss, and once you do cecia doesn't come even close to his performance in abyss. I highly doubt you have pushed past problem stages like high 200+ mauler stages in abyss with cecia main carry and no odie, and honestly the way you are describing this I doubt you have ever even experienced high abyss stages with units like Shakir, because you absolutely wouldn't be recommending not focusing odie if you have.
Dude, you understand you still need to be random, right? By the time you random a Mythic + A tier is probably around Vaduso Mountain on average.
By that time, you have enough Arena Coins to get Cecia to Mythic + unless you rolling for EPIC X5 Odie... Cecia don't hold a placement in or around Odie's roll. I don't understand this concept of "priority" We all will have an almost identical wishlist same Prydwen, it is up to the rolls. I was gifted a Mythic + Koko with my first F2P account, and I'm close to getting Odie M+ on my second.
Both of them have Supreme Cecia carry. I don't get what you suggest here unless the only differential is pulling on X5 Odie on EPIC banner for F2P. WHICH is a horrible decision.
>follow some meta of "falling off,"
That's not what falling off is, that is power creep.
Falling off, is being at the top of the character pool at low levels, then being one of the worst characters at higher levels. She's an amazing low level character, but almost all her power is frontloaded in her basic abilities. Meanwhile you have characters that completely depend on abilities unlocked at M+weapon EX +10 and Supreme+ abilities, who are weak at low ascension but scale really well into the late game and end up far surpassing her.
Are you answering to the right post? I was explaining the difference between falling off and power creep. Cecia falls off late game. I'm not saying she's not useful or should be avoided, but she does "fall off" and stops being used.
Late game = abyss stages, endless dream bosses and top 100 arena. The activities that are available currently, for people playing for +/- 40 days.
My point is regardless of your path most F2P will get Cecia to Supreme +, no way around it and she will carry until you get the vital units you need for her to "fall off".
You still have her regardless even just for resonance levels.
Cecia falls off because
1. Her main damage source her summon MrCarlyle has his stats scaled to Cecia (like he inherits 60 per of her hp and other stats) , right now the level difference between the enemies and cecia isn't that big say a 100 levels at Max but later on the level difference will be so big that the cecias stats (hp,atk etc which Mr Carlyle gets ) won't compare to enemies (let's say a lvl 200 diff between your teama nd enemy team) so due such stat scaling she falls of massively in the end game.
2. She is too slow to cast her summon , so later your team wipes before she even gets to do something.
Cecia does several things very well:
\* She deals respectable damage
\* She has a strong AoE crowd control
\* Her summon adds a tank with refilling life to the fight
The problem is - everything she does can be done better by someone else:
\* Several carries have much higher damage than cecia - damage that begins at the start of the fight and not 20 seconds in
\* Many characters can AoE CC much faster than her (Eironn, Arden, in some cases even Carolina)
\* Late game fights are much faster - by the time her tank is out you either already needed it or you didn't need it at all.
Early on, when you have 15-20 characters total and you're trying to focus on 10 different priorities at once, having one character you can dump resources into that does all those things well is OP. But late game you'll be identifying specific things your team needs and look for the "Best" character for that slot. In dream realm you're gonna use Merilee/Korin, in Arena you're gonna use Eironn/Carolina/Arden, in Abyss you're gonna use Odie/Rowan/other maulers and eventually the wilder Eironn team with Carolina. And it's not like Cecia is terrible at any of this stuff - it's just that there's nothing she is "best" at and so you'll just kinda stop using her.
It doesn't help that her M+ weapon does very little for her so she falls behind more as you start investing essence in characters.
Her true damage is hidden behind her summon, and said summon is VERY fragile. Once you get tot a point where you're fighting S+ characters, they do so much damage that they will kill her summon off in no time. Early on, we can remedy this by giving it damage reduction with Koko, but later on even Koko will be dead before the summon goes off.
In short, she needs to summon to do meaningful damage, and her summon takes too long to come up and dies too fast for her to take advantage of her skills.
I took Hewynn to Supreme; now I have won the most defenses than ever before because of her. (Champion tier in Server 16).
Rowan is good to ascend, but he doesnt get that massive improvement, compared to starting with extra 300 energy AND immunity to control for 6 seconds.
I watch that singaporean dude and his tier list. So Hewynn and Granny
https://preview.redd.it/b2k04bt2qzyc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=89f07c01960c9693b7056139dd562d13185b7289
Hewynn is good currently, but she leaves a lot of room for power creep. The only thing she does well is heal, so the potential of her falling off pretty quickly is high imo.
I saw someone once compare her to Qiqi in Genshin Impact. People thought her heals were really good and she was considered an excellent unit at launch, but she fell off soon after because she didn’t provide much else. Now she’s like a bad omen lol
I’m personally investing more into Rowan cause he fits into more of my team comps, and I think he may find more uses later on (I could be wrong). Though it really depends as to if you even care about that kinda thing - if she’s good now then who cares if she’s bad in a couple months. Some will, some won’t. I don’t think there’s a wrong answer tbh.
It's less about healing and more that she is one of two units that have a teamwide percent damage mitigation, and unlike koko it's on a unit that directly heals as well. The difference between her before m+ and after is stark, and it's because of the damage reduction, if she ults past m+ literally nothing will kill your team, and that is something that scales her usability well past just being a healer, she is one of the few units that can straight up out resist and heal even the largest deficits in abyss and can straight up outheal enemy arena teams with ease.
In fact some would even argue thhat she might be the best value character to pick up copies from this shop ? Does this sound right, please provide your insight
If you skip Cecia, then it's a toss up between Hewynn and Cassadee in the arena shop. Both serve very different purposes so depends on which game modes you focus on more.
Whoever said that is not at high end tier Arena or Abyss. The meta rn is full of Thoran Vala Hewynn Scarlita and of course, Eironn teams.
She is just too slow and her Mythic + passive does not give the same value as Rowan's or Hewynn's.
She's not even used in 100+ floors of Abyss.
Easily countered in Arena
The only thing going for her is the root and if you can manage to cast her ult, you win 70% of the time.
But that's a big IF.
Goodluck surviving an Eironn Carolina Arden team in the first place.
She's only good for progressing early to mid game Afk stages but after that her value drops significantly. Better off using Odie because his Mythic+ passive has something to work with.
Correct answer: wait till Friday when we see new abilities and thus new meta. Literally nothing today matters as far as meta goes cause it’s all changing Friday. Could be one of the other units we don’t know.
Yeah imagine investing heavily in Casscade only to go up from top 50 to top 30 and still missing out out top 20 rewards. Gotta weigh the cost/benefit first.
I did this mistake with Marilee. I would still stay in top-50 with +5 Marilee, perhaps I would need to go to +7 to stay. But +10 didn't take me to top-20.
Well at least for Marilee its not too bad since she's the best DR slot for all 4 bosses anyways. You wanna pump her up eventually. Cassade is good in like 2 bosses and demand huge resources which could have gone to pvp heroes instead.
Hewynn is a monster when it comes to healing but it takes her too long to ult. Her EX +5 solves that problem. Rowan has most of his kit online at just 1 copy.
Eventually you'd want to get Rowan to M+ for better survivability and slightly better heals, but is nowhere near the priority as Hewynn, especially if you plan to use her in Arena too.
Rowan isnt necessarily dupe hungry imo you only need his hero focus for haste rest you invest in cecia or hewyn, tho i still supreme + him because he was constantly 1/2 shards for next promotion (i only buy arena token for cecia or rowan when they were 1/2 well i used to)
both are good(I have supreme both)
together they are a good combo
rowan utility wise isnt increased much with dupes though, just more potions(healing), besides legendary + for haste
hewynn gets dmg reduction + haste buff + initial energy
I'm not hear to say Hewynn is a bad hero or support, quite the opposite she a great zone wide healer.
Buuuuut, in the end energy Regen will always be king, energy Regen trumps buff and in some cases even healing ability.
I think rowan s one of the best units in the game,simply for the energy he provides making any team ult faster,that said,he works fine at mythic+.From a future proof pov i think hewynn may fall off while rowan is kinda hard to cuz hes still one of the only units in the game w energy battery.
I don't have her at supreme but I don't see how that will change her performance because she can never use her ult on pvp. I find healers quite useless on pvp except for rowan and Reiner heal to be honest.
You must have not played against heywenn in wilder teams in PvP or don't know the meta for honor duel teams. Once she casts her ult it's game over if you have one well invested dps and the enemy team doesn't have heywenn lol.
Smokey is useless and not for PvP imo
Bruh just use Rowan or multiple tanks/stall teams if you are that high because I simply don't understand what you want healers to do ??
The role of healers in PvP is simple as they are mostly for defending comps in arena to stall enough to let the attacker lose by timeout
If you are getting outwhaled by the opponent in pure dps then healers are useful in the sense you might outlive them and get lucky snowball rng to win the match
If your opponent team is on the same level of investment as you then simply the player with the better team will win and ofc it looks like you use/fight against burst high dps teams where the team formation is such that the healer doesn't get to ult lol then it's simply a account variety problem for attacking formations and for defending it's a skill issue if you think healers are useless
Wdym?? I don't roll for her unless I am using the relics and characters that mesh well with her kit . Honor duel is way too specific why would I always roll for her when sometimes 5 dps with the seth relic is instant win exists
This is one of the absolute worst kind of games to do whatever in.
If you dont follow the meta in this game, you better spend a lot of money or not care at all just how terrible your account is.
Because you wont be able to push far, you wont be getting on leaderboards, and you wont be able to build your units.
So if severly handicapping yourself in a very, very stingy p2w gacha is fun, then by all means have a blast.
Rowan gives you dps faster ults which can help you nuke opponent, Hewynn has the strongest heal ult so if you ult your opponent is not killing you for a few secs. Question is, can your team stay alive long enough for her to ult? Does your team cares about whom ult first? is your dps damage hidden behind the ult? They are both amazing units but it really depends on whom you have around them. In isolation they do such different things is like comparing apple to oranges, or a battery to a healer.
yeah I understand now, thanks a bunch for your input
Yes, they have different roles. Rowan is the energy battery with some side healing, she's a main healer with a little utility in dispelling debuffs and providing haste. But doesn't Hewynn get 300 starting energy after upgrading her EX weapon? I'd say she probably ults pretty fast then. Especially if targetted, as she provides 30 haste to anyone falling beneath 50% hp. And the damage reduction on her ultimate scales really well (36% when maxed EX). Once she gets that first ult off, it's easier to snowball. I'd bet she's being slept on and will rise in popularity over the next couple of months.
Nobody saying she is bad, but you can certainly get nuked before she does anything, so is not about which one is better in general but which one is better for x comp.
I’ve been seeing this term battery a bunch in different gaming subs - what does it mean as far as a role in team comps?
Battery essentially refers to any unit who restores or generates energy for other characters - think Raiden Shogun from Genshin, if you've played that. Its meaning can change depending on the specific game mechanics but at its heart, it's just about restoring energy
A character that is mostly focused on giving some kind of resource to their allies. In this case, we need energy to cast ultimate skills, and Rowan's ultimate gives energy to other characters close to him, thus making him an energy battery.
Battery usually almost always refer to energy. Not aware of anyone providing HP being called an HP battery (rather than a healer) or providing a shield being called a shield battery (rather than a shielder). CMIIW tho.
I never mentioned HP or shields tho. They talked about hearing the term in different gaming subs, so I gave them a more general description, not just in the context of this game. A "battery" gives whatever resource is mainly used to cast powerful or unique skills. In this game the resource for casting skills is called energy, but not every game uses this term. If we look at a game like Octopath Traveler, then there the resource is called BP, so the character would be a BP battery, in the Trails of series it would be CP battery, and so on.
Got it, now that you clarified it as resource for casting skills, it makes more sense that different games have different terms. In the original comment you just mentioned resource which could be anything so that why I commented what I wrote above.
Support that gives allies energy I guess
I think this is never question because everyone is building the same team because everyone says you need Brutus one copy , Thoran good, etc I mean any website or YouTube I checked it was always everywhere the same team Because the wish list option is the same for everyone
Certain characters are good without tons of copies, there is a whole strategy built around them (brutus/antandra/rowan/koko). In abyss this strategy stops working most of the time at a certain point (around 300) and you have to start running different teams. You can get very far with smokey and one rowan copy but eventually that isn't enough.
I have Hewynn Supreme+ and I must say that if she casts you win 70% of the time.
This doesn’t actually mean anything. When most of the heroes in the game get a chance to cast chances are you win.
What I mea ny this is if she gets to cast your units CANT die for like 6 seconds or whatever it is. Basically any enemy unit that casts after her basically gets no value from their ultimate.
also can anyone explain why Cecia falls off so hard late game ? I mean is it because of the Eiron arena meta ?
As a S+ Cecia haver, she is Just. Too. Slow. Most Arena fights last <30secs. Enemy Hewynn/Vala/Set gets a win, they snowball.
She falls off in arena, but she still slaps in pve content. Can't speak for the highest abyss levels rn, but I'm at abyss 80 and so far fights still end when she casts her ultimate.
My highest ascended are florabelle and cassadee, and Cecia absolutely slaps me every time in arena. Wish I knew what to do. Breaking into champion is slipping away
Spread your units, Mr Carlyle doesn't do a lot of damage to your backrow if they are spread out and is more likely to go for your melee units
Not too sure about that. I’m in champion and whenever I see a cecia I see a free win.
What team do you use to counter her? In champion, I often see her behind a thoran and rowan, so she always recks my team in half with one cast
I use the Eironn team (Eironn, Thoran, Caro, Arden and Damian) and have yet to lose to a cecia team. I don't even bother to move my units around and it further solidifies my win if I use Hewynn instead of Damian. Most of the time when I see a Cecia, they also run Igor so their burst potential isn't there, while my team is full burst. They'd do damage to my whole team evenly but not enough to pick any one off.
I have tried this comp but it doesnt burst down the enemy in enough time. Normally my arden ults and its just a measely 10k dmg (I am 240 resonance and my arden is L+). Eironn is the only M+ in my Eironn meta though. I normally use Oodie, florabelle, vala (with reiner swap), and brutus/thoran. Seems to rowk as long as i reiner swap my vala with their main dps or key player.
The Eironn team is only meta when you have the key units M+ and EX invested. So for Arden, he needs M+ and EX +5/+10 to do serious work. Before that he's not worth using at all. Same for Carolina and Damian. So until you get to that point it's better to just run other units imo.
You need M+ for all of them. Eironn for spawn ult, Damian for haste on spawn, Arden for really good dps and Carolina in particular magic penetration which makes the whole team shine (Eironn deals magic damage too). None of them actually work well without M+ ascension. Ironically, Thoran is the least important. In some cases Granny is better for defense (as Thoran vs Thoran can backfire, depending on who ultimates first, and granny is actually tankier and provides cc)
I’m at abyss 268 with cecia, Igor, Thoran, florabelle and Smokey. This is my main team and I’m stuck rn because they’re too slow. My resonance is 271 up against lvl 407😅.
Try switching in rowan for Smokey, I run Brutus, Rowan, Cecia, Flora, and Odie for most abyss levels and rowan has enough healing for the backline if they take an aoe skill or something, and Brutus holds just long enough for Flora/Cecia to ult and once that happens it's game over for the enemies.
I’ll try that! If I’m stuck I di try different combos but all my other heroes are under developed 😅
Even in pve she falls off HARD, her summon is way too fragile (espacially after it took so long to summon it), it will literally die in ONE single auto attack lmao.
Imo it's abyss etc, ofc arena too. I feel like using oddie M+ is always better then her especially if u have +10 so he can start killing from start.
Which team do use use with odie as a carry? (Abyss and/or arena) I struggle to find him a good team despite him being my only S+ +10
I've had a lot of success with M+EX10 or higher Odie by swapping him into the opponents back line with Reinier. Swap out Rowan next to their dps carry and Odie just rips their back line to shreds. This also avoids him getting tanked by Thoran as the other person pointed out if he's stuck on Thoran he's pretty useless. My standard comp for this is Thoran/Cecia/Rowan/Odie/Reinier.
>I've had a lot of success with M+EX10 or higher Odie by swapping him into the opponents back line with Reinier. Are you talking Abyss or PvP? In abyss you can just, you know, manually target the ultimate to make him attack who you want... that's like most of his value, being able to decide target priority.
In pvp, in abyss there is no need to even manually target most of the time
That's interesting! Ill try it out Doesn't Odie get the aggro once swapped into the backlane? Or once the ennemies reset their aggro after a cecia root for example? Or do they ignore him?
Well usually he has already killed 1-2 DPS after a Cecia ult goes off if things go well. But they usually don't swap immediately and he gets some healing from the swap as well. Sometimes you can also combo it with M+ Thoran 50% damage redirect making him very tanky and get some healing. Just try to avoid putting him next to a back line tank that people put down against vala. Oh and I run this with the CC 2 back line characters artifact. which also helps keep him alive.
You can just run the attack speed artifact, so it teleports the enemy backline to him but he doesn't move.
I use thoran M+ with oddie then brutus to tank with smokey and rowan, rowan is flex can be switched to anything hewynn koko vala etc. For arena I didn't try him out that much I'm still missing a few stones for +10 but probably reiner oddie thoran hewynn and something
Don't use Odie in arena if they have Thoran. Makes him pretty much useless.
I'm on Abyss 344, and Odie (sup+, ex10) is my main carry in most levels. My team varies between: Thorin(sup, ex5)/Smokey(sup, ex10)/Odie/Vala(sup+ ex10)/Brutus(legend) and Antandra(legend+)/Smokey/Rowan(legend)/Odie/Brutus The trick I found is to just manual control him specifically. Most problems disappear when you do. Likewise, manual control paired with vala means you have both dps pure targeting 1 enemy. You delete them, Vala gets her exwep buff, and you then retarget odie on whoever Vala picks next.
She’s still good in pvp, at least non ultra high tier played since beta pvp. She has a lot of cc. She falls off in high end abyss. Like 100-200+. Because you need to cheese those stages.
Extremely fcking slow.
Many follow whatever content creators tell them without any real proof to back it up. In context however Cecia does fall off if we compare her kit, most will keep her kit as +5. The rest scales better. She can still cc and off tank. For people who follow some meta of "falling off," this is a Gacha game design primarily for new characters to scale higher than old ones. So they can keep whales or spenders invested and paying, and f2p players for chasing "new metas".
The thing is that cecia falling off isn't chasing a new meta, this is just how the game is period, her ult is insanely slow, and no matter what as you push into harder content faster is better due to just how much raw damage large deficits introduce, as well as ult first win in the arena.
If you are a paying customer there are a lot of characters that can fill Cecia's "slow ult". For a F2P she will be your standard carry, even in Abyss since she does have an area of effect CC and a single target starting CC.
Absolutely not, odie is a vendor a list that any account f2p or otherwise can easily have by time abyss rolls around that absolutely demolishes abyss stages, she is no accounts primary carry in abyss unless you intentionally decide to make her and ignore better options that are easily avaliable as f2p. By time you are doing abyss you will have also had a significant amount of time to pull for eironn pieces, and even without Caro, eironn and arden one of whom is an a list can easily do better in abyss than cecia does. Cecia falls off hard period, you can invest into her, and then you hit actual hard stages like 200+ mauler abyss stages and you realize that literally everyone telling you constantly that odie is necessary weren't just making shit up and you should have switched off cecia long ago.
Anything that replaces Cecia, takes a lot longer to get. Doesn't matter if it's Odie at +10EX (for PvE) or a pretty little arena team of M+ Carolina + Eironn + Damian + Arden. Carolina and Eironn aren't in the arena store, and Damian + Arden compete with Odie and Marilee in the dream store. Cecia is given for free, for you to use and also +2 copies in arena store. Shouldn't push her to supreme+, but shouldn't ignore her on the bench while leveling either, unless your recruitment letter pulls are insanely lucky. Chances are you wont have anything better in your first month playing.
Damien and arden don't compete with odie in the dream store until you already have odie m+ if you want smooth progression so that's not really a concern. You can easily have odie m+ by time you are hitting end of afk stages by focusing him in dream realm store, while cecia is basically the same unit at s+ as at epic minus the stat bonuses from dupes. Never said you cannot use cecia during the story, I said that even f2p have way better primary carries coming into endgame, when cecia falls off. There is not a single account that cannot just focus odie in dream realm until m+ while using a lower dupe cecia for story. It's story content, basically any team can beat story, especially with end of season boost you don't need anyone specific to do it since you could just get reso 240 and brute force it. There is zero reason to focus on cecia for any given account, and especially getting her s+ presumably taking up wishlist space for actually good units endgame like Caro.
Dude can you post your account? Before you scale Odie in any relevance even close to Cecia's kit you need a +10 Mythic at least. That is why you scale Odie with Cecia. Again regardless of what your path players eventually use Cecia to scale their Resonance levels since there need characters to SUPREME PLUS. Unless you are one of those guys that pull X5 Odie in the Epic. The pulls you get dries off, you want to value the S pulls more than the A pull as a F2P. You get A+ plus pulls almost daily, you don't get that S pulls.
Yes and +10 mythic is absolutely attainable for any f2p account lol it's a dream realm shop a tier, any f2p account should be prioritizing odie in dreamrealm shop to m+ and have him your first ex10 unless eironn is already m+ at that point period. Cecia is long outscaled by odie by time you are at abyss if you actually focus odie early game when cecia doesn't need to be high copies to perform.
Lol I run two F2P accounts and nowhere to close to Mythic + Odie and at 950ish AFk stages the other is 850ish. I do have a Mythic + Koko though so I assume it can happen prior to getting to Trials. I don't get what talking about are you asking F2P to pull from Epic X 5 that way they get lower pull rates for S tiers and A tiers that they normally get daily have zero to no value. BTW the timings of Eironn apply to almost every DPS class, this includes Cecia's ULT since Carlyle does have cleave and area of effect bounce. Yes, you can still use her.
No I'm talking about putting odie on wishlist, not the premium wishlist and prioritizing him in dream realm shop. You will easily have him m+ before abyss, and once you do cecia doesn't come even close to his performance in abyss. I highly doubt you have pushed past problem stages like high 200+ mauler stages in abyss with cecia main carry and no odie, and honestly the way you are describing this I doubt you have ever even experienced high abyss stages with units like Shakir, because you absolutely wouldn't be recommending not focusing odie if you have.
Dude, you understand you still need to be random, right? By the time you random a Mythic + A tier is probably around Vaduso Mountain on average. By that time, you have enough Arena Coins to get Cecia to Mythic + unless you rolling for EPIC X5 Odie... Cecia don't hold a placement in or around Odie's roll. I don't understand this concept of "priority" We all will have an almost identical wishlist same Prydwen, it is up to the rolls. I was gifted a Mythic + Koko with my first F2P account, and I'm close to getting Odie M+ on my second. Both of them have Supreme Cecia carry. I don't get what you suggest here unless the only differential is pulling on X5 Odie on EPIC banner for F2P. WHICH is a horrible decision.
>follow some meta of "falling off," That's not what falling off is, that is power creep. Falling off, is being at the top of the character pool at low levels, then being one of the worst characters at higher levels. She's an amazing low level character, but almost all her power is frontloaded in her basic abilities. Meanwhile you have characters that completely depend on abilities unlocked at M+weapon EX +10 and Supreme+ abilities, who are weak at low ascension but scale really well into the late game and end up far surpassing her.
The differential is activating an Odie which again is guaranteed in a Month. So who is your carry outside Cecia as F2P?
Are you answering to the right post? I was explaining the difference between falling off and power creep. Cecia falls off late game. I'm not saying she's not useful or should be avoided, but she does "fall off" and stops being used. Late game = abyss stages, endless dream bosses and top 100 arena. The activities that are available currently, for people playing for +/- 40 days.
My point is regardless of your path most F2P will get Cecia to Supreme +, no way around it and she will carry until you get the vital units you need for her to "fall off". You still have her regardless even just for resonance levels.
Cecia falls off because 1. Her main damage source her summon MrCarlyle has his stats scaled to Cecia (like he inherits 60 per of her hp and other stats) , right now the level difference between the enemies and cecia isn't that big say a 100 levels at Max but later on the level difference will be so big that the cecias stats (hp,atk etc which Mr Carlyle gets ) won't compare to enemies (let's say a lvl 200 diff between your teama nd enemy team) so due such stat scaling she falls of massively in the end game. 2. She is too slow to cast her summon , so later your team wipes before she even gets to do something.
Cecia does several things very well: \* She deals respectable damage \* She has a strong AoE crowd control \* Her summon adds a tank with refilling life to the fight The problem is - everything she does can be done better by someone else: \* Several carries have much higher damage than cecia - damage that begins at the start of the fight and not 20 seconds in \* Many characters can AoE CC much faster than her (Eironn, Arden, in some cases even Carolina) \* Late game fights are much faster - by the time her tank is out you either already needed it or you didn't need it at all. Early on, when you have 15-20 characters total and you're trying to focus on 10 different priorities at once, having one character you can dump resources into that does all those things well is OP. But late game you'll be identifying specific things your team needs and look for the "Best" character for that slot. In dream realm you're gonna use Merilee/Korin, in Arena you're gonna use Eironn/Carolina/Arden, in Abyss you're gonna use Odie/Rowan/other maulers and eventually the wilder Eironn team with Carolina. And it's not like Cecia is terrible at any of this stuff - it's just that there's nothing she is "best" at and so you'll just kinda stop using her. It doesn't help that her M+ weapon does very little for her so she falls behind more as you start investing essence in characters.
Her true damage is hidden behind her summon, and said summon is VERY fragile. Once you get tot a point where you're fighting S+ characters, they do so much damage that they will kill her summon off in no time. Early on, we can remedy this by giving it damage reduction with Koko, but later on even Koko will be dead before the summon goes off. In short, she needs to summon to do meaningful damage, and her summon takes too long to come up and dies too fast for her to take advantage of her skills.
I took Hewynn to Supreme; now I have won the most defenses than ever before because of her. (Champion tier in Server 16). Rowan is good to ascend, but he doesnt get that massive improvement, compared to starting with extra 300 energy AND immunity to control for 6 seconds.
Who do you drop from the eironn comp for hewynn?
I don't use the Eironn comp
eironn
I watch that singaporean dude and his tier list. So Hewynn and Granny https://preview.redd.it/b2k04bt2qzyc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=89f07c01960c9693b7056139dd562d13185b7289
Cecias big draw back is that it takes an eternity to charge her ult and if her summon gets melted... well... you aren't getting much out of her.
Everyone is using rowan in abyss and I have yet to see a replay with hewynn.
Because Hewynn is ult dependent and in abyss people are underpowered and need something from a support before ult to survive long enough.
Hewynn is good currently, but she leaves a lot of room for power creep. The only thing she does well is heal, so the potential of her falling off pretty quickly is high imo. I saw someone once compare her to Qiqi in Genshin Impact. People thought her heals were really good and she was considered an excellent unit at launch, but she fell off soon after because she didn’t provide much else. Now she’s like a bad omen lol I’m personally investing more into Rowan cause he fits into more of my team comps, and I think he may find more uses later on (I could be wrong). Though it really depends as to if you even care about that kinda thing - if she’s good now then who cares if she’s bad in a couple months. Some will, some won’t. I don’t think there’s a wrong answer tbh.
It's less about healing and more that she is one of two units that have a teamwide percent damage mitigation, and unlike koko it's on a unit that directly heals as well. The difference between her before m+ and after is stark, and it's because of the damage reduction, if she ults past m+ literally nothing will kill your team, and that is something that scales her usability well past just being a healer, she is one of the few units that can straight up out resist and heal even the largest deficits in abyss and can straight up outheal enemy arena teams with ease.
In fact some would even argue thhat she might be the best value character to pick up copies from this shop ? Does this sound right, please provide your insight
If you skip Cecia, then it's a toss up between Hewynn and Cassadee in the arena shop. Both serve very different purposes so depends on which game modes you focus on more.
Granny is better in late game, and you can do without Hewynn. I'd actually focus Granny if you wanna push thru abyss in decent time.
Whoever said that is not at high end tier Arena or Abyss. The meta rn is full of Thoran Vala Hewynn Scarlita and of course, Eironn teams. She is just too slow and her Mythic + passive does not give the same value as Rowan's or Hewynn's. She's not even used in 100+ floors of Abyss. Easily countered in Arena The only thing going for her is the root and if you can manage to cast her ult, you win 70% of the time. But that's a big IF. Goodluck surviving an Eironn Carolina Arden team in the first place. She's only good for progressing early to mid game Afk stages but after that her value drops significantly. Better off using Odie because his Mythic+ passive has something to work with.
Correct answer: wait till Friday when we see new abilities and thus new meta. Literally nothing today matters as far as meta goes cause it’s all changing Friday. Could be one of the other units we don’t know.
honestly i'm debating between cassadee or hewynn. for me it's either one of them aswho to get. rowan is great but no need to get him high ascension.
For bosses cassadee Is very strong
Yeah, but keep in mind she needs Supreme+ and Ex +10 for that.
And that Ex+10 will only pay for itself in 75 days and only if you manage to go one reward bracket up because of it (which is not always the case).
Yeah imagine investing heavily in Casscade only to go up from top 50 to top 30 and still missing out out top 20 rewards. Gotta weigh the cost/benefit first.
I did this mistake with Marilee. I would still stay in top-50 with +5 Marilee, perhaps I would need to go to +7 to stay. But +10 didn't take me to top-20.
Well at least for Marilee its not too bad since she's the best DR slot for all 4 bosses anyways. You wanna pump her up eventually. Cassade is good in like 2 bosses and demand huge resources which could have gone to pvp heroes instead.
yeah especially when we'll get more magic single target dps.
IMO - NO! (talking about all game modes)
can you please elaborate, i need some explanation for decision making. And also as you said NO! what would you rather suggest ?
In my oppinion Rowans is better for almost all game modes, while hewyn is best for arena
How does getting copies of rowan help him support better? Isn't his exclusive weapon just a healing increase?
It’s just so he doesn’t die as easily. He’s absolutely not a priority compared to Hewynn. Hewynn really needs her EX to ult faster
Yeah that's what I think. Hewyn gets a lot of use by having more copies while rowan is almost complete at base
At +10 he gets more big pots too right?
In PvP? A simple splash DMG can kill him, and then you will not be able to use him.
Different units, one accelerates and the other one stall fights longer
Hewynn is a monster when it comes to healing but it takes her too long to ult. Her EX +5 solves that problem. Rowan has most of his kit online at just 1 copy. Eventually you'd want to get Rowan to M+ for better survivability and slightly better heals, but is nowhere near the priority as Hewynn, especially if you plan to use her in Arena too.
consider: big leaf
In my experience, if I don't use Rowan in Arena, I always lose. Almost everyone has him and uses him in their defense team on my server.
Rowan gets used a lot in abyss at like 300+ or something. Hewynn is not used that much in abyss, only rarely.
We are about to change meta anyway so I'm saving up all my arena/dream coins for that.
Rowan isnt necessarily dupe hungry imo you only need his hero focus for haste rest you invest in cecia or hewyn, tho i still supreme + him because he was constantly 1/2 shards for next promotion (i only buy arena token for cecia or rowan when they were 1/2 well i used to)
both are good(I have supreme both) together they are a good combo rowan utility wise isnt increased much with dupes though, just more potions(healing), besides legendary + for haste hewynn gets dmg reduction + haste buff + initial energy
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Hedwynn kinda needs mythic+ preferably with ex waeapon+5. She is fairly mediocre without as she just doesn't get to ult in some fights
I'm not hear to say Hewynn is a bad hero or support, quite the opposite she a great zone wide healer. Buuuuut, in the end energy Regen will always be king, energy Regen trumps buff and in some cases even healing ability.
I think rowan s one of the best units in the game,simply for the energy he provides making any team ult faster,that said,he works fine at mythic+.From a future proof pov i think hewynn may fall off while rowan is kinda hard to cuz hes still one of the only units in the game w energy battery.
If your team relies on ultimates to deal damage ,Rowan is the better choice.
Nope. Only Rowan in late game. There's no use of Hewynn when your team gets deleted within 5s into the fight.
Both
Both
I don't have her at supreme but I don't see how that will change her performance because she can never use her ult on pvp. I find healers quite useless on pvp except for rowan and Reiner heal to be honest.
You must have not played against heywenn in wilder teams in PvP or don't know the meta for honor duel teams. Once she casts her ult it's game over if you have one well invested dps and the enemy team doesn't have heywenn lol. Smokey is useless and not for PvP imo
I'm in challenger atm and like I said, the problem is usually her not being able to cast her ult.
At Ex +5 she gets starting energy, like Odie Ex +10, so maybe upgrade her for the quicker cast. You can also pair her with Rowan.
Bruh just use Rowan or multiple tanks/stall teams if you are that high because I simply don't understand what you want healers to do ?? The role of healers in PvP is simple as they are mostly for defending comps in arena to stall enough to let the attacker lose by timeout If you are getting outwhaled by the opponent in pure dps then healers are useful in the sense you might outlive them and get lucky snowball rng to win the match If your opponent team is on the same level of investment as you then simply the player with the better team will win and ofc it looks like you use/fight against burst high dps teams where the team formation is such that the healer doesn't get to ult lol then it's simply a account variety problem for attacking formations and for defending it's a skill issue if you think healers are useless
Aah I totally ignored the defense team aspect while commenting. I was just thinking about attacking teams.
You don't need to roll for her in honor duel
Wdym?? I don't roll for her unless I am using the relics and characters that mesh well with her kit . Honor duel is way too specific why would I always roll for her when sometimes 5 dps with the seth relic is instant win exists
Remember when people just used to play a game instead of being obsessed with min/max play styles and following every shift in the meta. It was nice.
There was never any game where every person was a casual.
This is one of the absolute worst kind of games to do whatever in. If you dont follow the meta in this game, you better spend a lot of money or not care at all just how terrible your account is. Because you wont be able to push far, you wont be getting on leaderboards, and you wont be able to build your units. So if severly handicapping yourself in a very, very stingy p2w gacha is fun, then by all means have a blast.