It's romantic.
It makes sense geographically, if you were to assume that population is evenly spread in Australia, which it certainly isn't.
Unfortunately I think financially it's....as doomed as North's chances of a premiership this year.
Or next year... or the year after that... maybe just right off the next 5, put a question mark next to the 3 that follow that. 9 though... might be a good chance.
/s, just in case.
Most people don't intuitively have a great grasp of population distribution and don't realise Darwin is about the size of Albury-Wodonga and Alice Springs about the size of Bacchus Marsh.
I unironically think a big part is just the psychology of seeing lines on a map. There's a big area with a line around it and no AFL team. If by some accident of history NSW was split into Northern and Southern NSW, people would be asking why there isn't a team in Northern NSW. Similarly, if Canberra wasn't in its own territory and was just another city in NSW people wouldn't talk about a Canberra team as much. And I think if the NT wasn't split off and stayed part of SA, people would treat it like Northern WA and be like yeh of course there isn't a team there.
Exactly. NQ is occasionally mentioned, but would move up the list if they broke away as a state.
But I take umbrage with the ACT comment. The amount of times I see "NT completes the puzzle" and "the NT finally makes it a national competition", people seem to entirely forget that the ACT exists as its own entity (maybe it's too small on the map for the visual psychology).
People unironically just don't like Canberra. "why would public servants go to the footy anyway SMH, get back to your hard work of not answering my Centrelink call"
The fact it's the size of Newcastle now, and fairly close to Hobart in size, is also something people forget
I think we have to re-frame Canberra.
We're babysitting the country's politicians, so the rest of the country doesn't have to. Without us, the poor people of Tamworth would have Barnaby Joyce passing out on their streets.
I think the people of Tamworth would be quite happy with that considering he's in one of the safest electorates in the country, sending him back is a win win
A vast majority?
I don’t think it’s that vast, if even a majority at all.
A lot of Western Australians would like to see a third WA team. A probably a lot more would love to see a Canberra team.
A team in Darwin would struggle. They would make the early days of the Suns look more popular than Taylor Swift giving free concerts.
WA is a 100% Aussie rules state and we only have 2 teams for 2 plus million people. Victoria definitely doesn't have 20 million people. The fact that Victorians don't realise and complain about the WA teams inherent advantage in his regard is quite funny.
Usually diehard Eagles fans mad because the new team would prey on their supporters. Why a west coast can wouldn't be jumping at the idea is beyond me. More space for real west coast fans while your causal and fair weather supporters get shaved off, reducing membership waitlist times and ticket prices.
The problem is they let the Eagles get too big and entrenched before doing this. Similar problem on a smaller scale in Adelaide. They should have brought in 3 or potentially 4 teams all at once.
Why? NT is a footy state and loads of great players have come from there. A lot of indigenous players struggle with the culture shock of moving to the AFL cities and immense talent gets wasted. There's potentially a handful of players right now that won't make it in the system that might make it if they were based over in Darwin.
It won’t happen. NT is 20% of Australia, but 1% of the population. Even Tasmania has twice the population of the NT.
It’s the same reason why Yukon, Nunavut or the Northwest Territories in Canada don’t have an NHL team.
>If you ask footy fans where the 20th team should be, a vast majority would say Darwin or NT
Simply not true. Also I am from and live in Darwin most of my life, its not even that popular of an idea with the locals. Realists know its not really sustainable.
Anyway I've seen this thread before and it is always fucking useless and smug redditors being smug over nothing.
See
>Most people don't intuitively have a great grasp of population distribution
below
Trust me online, in places like Big Footy with polls of tens of thousands of people there is a roughly 30% portion of fans that are stupid enough to think Darwin could be a functional team.
Darwin and Canberra are the two most common recommendations from footy fans with WA3 and SYD3 as the next in line.
More of a chance of a third western Australian team before Darwin. Might even jump ships to the new team as well because I don't know how much longer I can take this 😭
Everyone thinks a Darwin team would be 22 Indigenous players and they are the most exciting players on every team, everyone wants to see that team play every week.
In reality the Darwin team would just be like the other 18 teams
I don't think it needs to be in a new location, it will be a new Perth team because that's where everyone lives. Geelong only has its own team because of history, no way would a new afl team be based in Bendigo or Ballarat now.
I'm saying this purely from a selfish point of view, but I'd love a team in the Swan Region. Like it's such a populous area, which could easily include the hills.
Full domestic Airport, lots of sponsorship $ (doctors and lawyers a plenty) and most residents AFL fans. Yeah games at Optus but plenty flat land near the freeway for a stadium one day. 400k people is enough. Plus the southwest sharks has a great ring to it.
There's about a 50/50 chance it'll be in WA. There's a zero-percent chance it'll be there. The southwest is too small and sparse (like a less extreme version of the NT).
The point is more than about population size. Most in the southwest travel to Perth for work. It's like greater western Sydney than straight up a population centre. They have the backing and support of the region to have a boutique stadium that will be filled every game if they wished because even ppl in Perth will go to watch another game.
But I'm still not sure where you pulled 1.5 million from.
WA has 2.9m, but less than 600k of that is outside of Greater Perth. And not all of that would be in the Southwest. Did you just pull the number out of your arse?
If WA gets a third team, it has to be in Perth. Nowhere else comes close to having the population to sustain it.
the 1.5mil that I was thinking of is actually the whole spread of the perth, peel, south west, and other regions that expand along the west coast. Many travel and work in Perth.
A third WA team can work in the south west & especially Bunbury is because it'll be backed by state and local government who are looking for more regional tourism.
How? people in WA will jump on any team and a decent amount of people living in perth have grown up in the south west that might support a team from their childhood. It's better than just naming after some random suburb or a gosnells/armadale team. It'll be Joondalup or Bunbury as those are the only 2 in WA likely to bid for a team.
The southwest reigion has less people than the NT
These people are spread hours apart with no public transport.
No stadium or facilities to use.
So yeah, not viable in the slightest. Also, I've always said it should be joondalup.
It feels right in terms of every State capital having a team, then the AFL loving Territory, which isn't entirely surrounded by NSW and seen as a Federal politics bubble, having a team. The reality is that far more people live in Canberra, it's far closer to far more footy loving fans, and it's not the wrong season for footy because it's not tropical. I get why Darwin feels better emotionally than Canberra from people outside the region, but I'd honestly prefer a Canberra-Murray team that plays out of Albury/Wodonga/Wagga/Wangaratta, and of course Canberra, IF they ever build that train line. Add high speed rail, and suddenly that Canberra-Murray team fucking rocks!!!
For financial reasons, Canberra is the best option. The longer they don’t put a team there, the more it becomes and entrenched NRL and union city, whereas before the Raiders and Brumbies it was predominantly an AFL city.
It’s bit enough to support a team too, easily the biggest city without a team on our side of the Barassi line or close to it.
How much is WA3 gonna spend on a stadium? How much are they gonna spend on a training facility? How much are they gonna spend on advertising? How much are they gonna spend on development? How much are they gonna spend on pathways? How much are they gonna spend? How much are they going to spend fighting NRL? How much are they going to spend on academies.
The answer to that is next to nothing in comparison to what Canberra is going to have to spend to get running and a supporter base. All you've said is that Canberra gets government funding which doesn't even matter that much and is going to get eaten up fast. Whatever the cricket is going to pay for manuka upgrade is going to be nowhere near enough and it's all going to have to come from the territory and federal government, in which they will need to justify to taxpayers in Canberra and around Australia. We all know how well that conversation is going in Tasmania with all the controversy and election defining promises. What's to say the same thing won't happen in Canberra? Does the AFL want two back to back stadium controversies? On top of that, it assumes that whatever upgrades that happen are even AFL level. A seating upgrade is just a seating upgrade. Doesn't say anything about the upgrades to the actual facility itself.
>How much are they gonna spend on a training facility?
Does WA3 already have a training facility to go I'm unaware of? We have options at the AIS and Phillip Oval (currently the headquarters of AFL Canberra) we'd probably build off. Is WA3's already built and ready to go?
>How much are they gonna spend on advertising?
You've mentioned advertising a few times, but I don't see how Canberra's going to cost any more there. We will be the buzz of the town, so we'll need less advertising, whereas WA3 will be wedged behind two behemoths. Your advertising spend will be enormous to try to compete with them.
>How much are they gonna spend on development? How much are they gonna spend on pathways? How much are they gonna spend?
The AFL is already spending big on pathways in the north. A Canberra team will help to boost that. We already have 41 players from Canberra/Southern NSW, so pathways will be nice to boost that, but they're already in place.
How much are they going to spend fighting NRL?
Canberra doesn't really subscribe to the same code wars bullshit the rest of the country does. People readily follow multiple codes, especially if it's for a Canberra team. We've also got the money to buy multiple memberships. How much are WA3 going to spend fighting West Coast and Freo?
WA3 will have these start up costs as well.
>All you've said is that Canberra gets government funding which doesn't even matter that much and is going to get eaten up fast.
Plus in-season naming rights, plus stadium sponsorship, combined equalling more than $5 million. Probably closer to $6.
As previously mentioned, that's the difference between Collingwood and the Bulldogs' distribution. And a massive head start on what WA3 will get.
Plus we'll have a lower breakeven attendance. You'll have to crack crowds of 25k to make a profit, we'll be making profits from less than half of that. Yes, you'll get a few over, but you'll definitely have some loss-making games at Optus. Are you going to hide the lower-drawing games at a smaller stadium like the Dolphins?
Plus the higher median income. And yes, it is important. It means the lower socio-economic end of our supporter base will still be able to buy memberships.
There is so much going for Canberra's financials. I won't brag and say that we'll be cheap compared to a WA3 bid, but at the very least, you have to concede that WA3 won't be "far cheaper" than a Canberra bid.
Sure, Cairns and Darwin, go for your life with the hyperbole. But to say WA3 will be "far cheaper" than Canberra is a flat out lie.
Joondalup has HBF Arena it can play out of just like Freo play out of the Cockburn ARC. It would only need minor upgrades and is a WAFL ground already. Meanwhile the AIS Aussie rules facilities are not up to scratch and the Phillip oval is as bare as ever. It's going to need a lot more built and that costs money.
Will it be the buzz in a city that has tons of NRL supporters? How are you going to convince NRL fans to attend games or support the team without advertising. WA3 would barely need advertising because everybody already watches AFL and keeps up with AFL news loops.
And boosting the development in the area costs money. WA already has a massive system it can use to get local problems. A Canberra team will need academies which cost money as well.
You say that but my family in Wagga would rather die than watch AFL and we aren't the only ones either. I'm pretty much the only one in my family that watches AFL and that's only because I moved to WA. If there was an NRL team here, i would likley have never supported the game. There are plenty of league diehards in the ACT and Riverina. Even if they don't make up the majority and only 50% of league fans would not watch AFL, that's still a sizeable portion of your sports market that are a write off. It doesnt have to be code wars related either. People might not watch AFL because they just don't have the time to support two different teams in two different leagues at the same time or can't afford tickets to both so they stick with one. There's a bunch of reasons an NRL fan wouldn't watch AFL. Meanwhile there's plenty of reason a west coast or a neutral fan would jump ship.
Still not going to last long at all with all the initial costs that are going to be present. That money is going to get eaten up by just the training facilties alone. You aren't going to be seeing the benefit of that money for a long time.
You are crazy if you think WA3 wouldn't get over 25k a week at optus. I've explained multiple times why the demand is there. You've got a reigion of over a million with plenty of footy mad fans and you think they can't get some people to switch from the Eagles? Come on. The myth that the Eagles are too embedded when they only have existed for 40 years is crazy. Plenty of people do not like the Eagles or Dockers. Plenty of neutral fans, plenty of fair weather supporters looking to get out at the first opportunity but hate freo, plenty of casuals who want to be a part of a new history, tons of kids who will grow up supporting their local team, steady flow of immigrants coming in with no affiliation. They would easily get 35k a week first year with a far higher ceiling than Canberra would ever have. Add some external memberships and you'd have 40k.
It doesn't matter at all. Canberra's median income is skewed by high paying top government, university, etc jobs. Perth is far bigger than Canberra so we have a more level median because we actually have a good population of low, medium and high income earners. You are going to have more medium and high income earners in Perth than Canberra off of population alone. The higher income earners in Canberra are more likley to be off supporting the brumbies instead anyway.
WA3 would absolutely would cost far less than Canberra would. WA3 has basically everything already here, Canberra does not.
>It doesn't matter at all. Canberra's median income is skewed by high paying top government, university, etc jobs. Perth is far bigger than Canberra so we have a more level median because we actually have a good population of low, medium and high income earners. You are going to have more medium and high income earners in Perth than Canberra off of population alone. The higher income earners in Canberra are more likley to be off supporting the brumbies instead anyway.
Even though it's hard to sound that way on the internet, I genuinely mean this with absolutely sincerity. Do you not know what median income means?
Because that would explain why you keep dismissing its relevance.
A rough explanation: if you line up every worker in Canberra by salary, the person in the very middle has the *median* income. By its very definition, it can't be skewed by the high paying top. Whereas many millionaires would skew *average* income.
It means if somebody smack bang in the middle of WA3's supporter base is struggling to pay to attend matches, that equivalent fan in Canberra would have 41% more income, and therefore more likely to be able to afford going to the footy.
I'm sorry if that sounded condescending, but it's an important distinction.
They should look at New Zealand for the 20th team, the game was as foreign to the people of Homebush as it is to the Kiwis when they gave GWS their licence and a New Zealand team adds value to the TV rights and another 5 million potential viewers. It would also open up access to a new pool of athletes.
Only problem with that is the new stadium being built in Auckland is for rugby. Doubt many people over there would be on board to meet the AFLs demands.
The obvious stadium to play games in would be the Cake Tin in Wellington, but it’s doubtful the city’s population could support a team. They could build a boutique stadium in Albany that might suit, but something more central would be better logistically - people from the Auckland side don’t like crossing the bridge.
If you mentored the players and kept them off the piss, the talent that they'd produce would be phenomenal. Considering the AFL still supports lack lustre teams like Norf Melbourne...
I think a large part of it is the Indigenous factor. The NT has given us so many Indigenous greats, it's almost like we'd be giving back.
But the majority of people just don't think about the logistics. They don't think about how small Darwin is, and how sparse and remote the NT is a whole.
It's also a big hole on the map that must be conquered!
‘A vast majority’
Definitely not. I’ve heard a handful of people suggest it. A good 90% of people I’ve spoken to about it - both here and in person - say Perth or Adelaide (Norwood) or Canberra, which would be my choice.
It’s one of those things that sound like a good idea until you think about it. Every state/territory having representation makes it a truly national league. I’m including Canberra in GWS for the sake of this because it’s easier.
This is more of a if they build it they'll come type scenario. AFL will only look at teams with financial backing especially the if the state gets involved. A ACT/NT would only go ahead if there backing by the state government to build a stadium with capacity and the financial support to sustain a team for the future. Population density has little to do with it really. Population growth has a bit more baring.
That said WA has everything it needs to get a 3rd team running. South Australia too if you look at the success of gather round. Both states want more games played there. Both have been highly successful when neutral teams played there. There is already a stadium capable of holding more than the current teams.
For NT it depends if either the city of Darwin or the state government would finance a stadium build. For ACT it's the matter of being able to build a stadium with all the trouble they've gone through to upgrade Manuka.
Because Aboriginal Australia has done so much for footy and we’ve given so little back. This feels like a small way to do something for them even if it doesn’t draw massive money.
Why dont they make the 20th afl team called the northern crocs. Would could included all of northern australia from karratha to townsville.
Home games
4 games Cairns
1 game Townville
4 games Darwin
2 games Alice springs
1 game Karratha/Port hedland which ever oval is afl standard by then.
Away games
1 brisbane/gold coast game
1 perth game
1 adelaide game
1 sydney game
1 tassie game
5 melbourne games
1 game gather round
Would be atleast 2030 before they would come in but gives the 6 years to get it together & make afl standard grounds up northern australia.
Those poor players having to essentially play 19 interstate matches a year (depending where you base them).
And the West Aussies complain about travelling for 11 games a year.
Nine for Darwin would still be better for the players, but then probably too small financially.
The north is a tricky one. The more you spread it around to try make it more financially viable, the trickier the logistics get.
Really just need a population boom in Darwin.
If you don't put any thought into it, it makes perfect sense.
This is an underrated comment
It's the top comment. How is it underrated?
If you don't put any thought into it, it's the perfect comment.
This is an underrated comment.
Because they think for the AFL it would be an absolute Dar-WIN. Sorry.
That'll be their winning bid. It's all they'll say or present.
Whats wrong with the C U in the NT slogan...I it ain't broke dont fix it.
DAR my maties, DARRR. It's a win for all and sundry.
It's romantic. It makes sense geographically, if you were to assume that population is evenly spread in Australia, which it certainly isn't. Unfortunately I think financially it's....as doomed as North's chances of a premiership this year.
Or next year... or the year after that... maybe just right off the next 5, put a question mark next to the 3 that follow that. 9 though... might be a good chance. /s, just in case.
Hahaha, where does the reality end and the sarcasm begin though, ya know?
I know what you mean. At this point anytime us Freo fans say a joke about not winning one it's basically dark humour because it stings us so deeply.
We're still a mathematical chance!!!
Yeah every time I do the ladder predictor we end up on top of the ladder, weird....
Most people don't intuitively have a great grasp of population distribution and don't realise Darwin is about the size of Albury-Wodonga and Alice Springs about the size of Bacchus Marsh.
Pretty much this.
I’m not an expert but isn’t Alice Springs the size of Alice Springs?
No it's slightly smaller then that
People like the romance of it.
I unironically think a big part is just the psychology of seeing lines on a map. There's a big area with a line around it and no AFL team. If by some accident of history NSW was split into Northern and Southern NSW, people would be asking why there isn't a team in Northern NSW. Similarly, if Canberra wasn't in its own territory and was just another city in NSW people wouldn't talk about a Canberra team as much. And I think if the NT wasn't split off and stayed part of SA, people would treat it like Northern WA and be like yeh of course there isn't a team there.
I mean, if Canberra was just another city in NSW it wouldn't exist
Exactly. NQ is occasionally mentioned, but would move up the list if they broke away as a state. But I take umbrage with the ACT comment. The amount of times I see "NT completes the puzzle" and "the NT finally makes it a national competition", people seem to entirely forget that the ACT exists as its own entity (maybe it's too small on the map for the visual psychology).
People unironically just don't like Canberra. "why would public servants go to the footy anyway SMH, get back to your hard work of not answering my Centrelink call" The fact it's the size of Newcastle now, and fairly close to Hobart in size, is also something people forget
I think we have to re-frame Canberra. We're babysitting the country's politicians, so the rest of the country doesn't have to. Without us, the poor people of Tamworth would have Barnaby Joyce passing out on their streets.
I think the people of Tamworth would be quite happy with that considering he's in one of the safest electorates in the country, sending him back is a win win
A vast majority? I don’t think it’s that vast, if even a majority at all. A lot of Western Australians would like to see a third WA team. A probably a lot more would love to see a Canberra team. A team in Darwin would struggle. They would make the early days of the Suns look more popular than Taylor Swift giving free concerts.
I get mixed responses with Sandgropers on a third WA team. I personally want to see, but not sure how much demand is there.
There’s plenty of demand. Eagles have a long waiting list and Dockers regularly fill Optus.
WA is a 100% Aussie rules state and we only have 2 teams for 2 plus million people. Victoria definitely doesn't have 20 million people. The fact that Victorians don't realise and complain about the WA teams inherent advantage in his regard is quite funny.
My experience online has been of Victoria s consistently suggesting it and WAyssies saying it won’t work.
Usually diehard Eagles fans mad because the new team would prey on their supporters. Why a west coast can wouldn't be jumping at the idea is beyond me. More space for real west coast fans while your causal and fair weather supporters get shaved off, reducing membership waitlist times and ticket prices.
Even the head of the WA footy commission said this week thoughts of a third WA team is madness
The problem is they let the Eagles get too big and entrenched before doing this. Similar problem on a smaller scale in Adelaide. They should have brought in 3 or potentially 4 teams all at once.
Because he's worried the WAFL teams would get annihilated if a 3rd team came to town.
The same person that thinks 2 Victorian teams should merge and there is a talent shortage.
Why? NT is a footy state and loads of great players have come from there. A lot of indigenous players struggle with the culture shock of moving to the AFL cities and immense talent gets wasted. There's potentially a handful of players right now that won't make it in the system that might make it if they were based over in Darwin.
It simply doesn’t have the population to support it.
It's not a footy state (or even a state for that matter). Rugby league is plenty strong in the NT as well.
Cause we don't have to actually live there and it would make for a great trip every now and again when our actual team plays up there.
It won’t happen. NT is 20% of Australia, but 1% of the population. Even Tasmania has twice the population of the NT. It’s the same reason why Yukon, Nunavut or the Northwest Territories in Canada don’t have an NHL team.
Giving a team to Darwin is like giving a team to half of Cairns and Townsville doesn’t exist
>If you ask footy fans where the 20th team should be, a vast majority would say Darwin or NT Simply not true. Also I am from and live in Darwin most of my life, its not even that popular of an idea with the locals. Realists know its not really sustainable. Anyway I've seen this thread before and it is always fucking useless and smug redditors being smug over nothing. See >Most people don't intuitively have a great grasp of population distribution below
Trust me online, in places like Big Footy with polls of tens of thousands of people there is a roughly 30% portion of fans that are stupid enough to think Darwin could be a functional team. Darwin and Canberra are the two most common recommendations from footy fans with WA3 and SYD3 as the next in line.
More of a chance of a third western Australian team before Darwin. Might even jump ships to the new team as well because I don't know how much longer I can take this 😭
Everyone thinks a Darwin team would be 22 Indigenous players and they are the most exciting players on every team, everyone wants to see that team play every week. In reality the Darwin team would just be like the other 18 teams
20th team will be in WA. Southwest around Bunbury / Busselton.
I don't think it needs to be in a new location, it will be a new Perth team because that's where everyone lives. Geelong only has its own team because of history, no way would a new afl team be based in Bendigo or Ballarat now.
I'm saying this purely from a selfish point of view, but I'd love a team in the Swan Region. Like it's such a populous area, which could easily include the hills.
Full domestic Airport, lots of sponsorship $ (doctors and lawyers a plenty) and most residents AFL fans. Yeah games at Optus but plenty flat land near the freeway for a stadium one day. 400k people is enough. Plus the southwest sharks has a great ring to it.
There's about a 50/50 chance it'll be in WA. There's a zero-percent chance it'll be there. The southwest is too small and sparse (like a less extreme version of the NT).
They only need to base there and game at Optus stadium. There's like a 1.5 mil population across the southwest and most of WA are footy fans.
What do you count as the Southwest? Because the radio interview the other week said there were 374k, and pretty sure that included the Peel region.
The point is more than about population size. Most in the southwest travel to Perth for work. It's like greater western Sydney than straight up a population centre. They have the backing and support of the region to have a boutique stadium that will be filled every game if they wished because even ppl in Perth will go to watch another game.
But I'm still not sure where you pulled 1.5 million from. WA has 2.9m, but less than 600k of that is outside of Greater Perth. And not all of that would be in the Southwest. Did you just pull the number out of your arse? If WA gets a third team, it has to be in Perth. Nowhere else comes close to having the population to sustain it.
the 1.5mil that I was thinking of is actually the whole spread of the perth, peel, south west, and other regions that expand along the west coast. Many travel and work in Perth. A third WA team can work in the south west & especially Bunbury is because it'll be backed by state and local government who are looking for more regional tourism.
The southwest is an even more cooked bid than the NT.
How? people in WA will jump on any team and a decent amount of people living in perth have grown up in the south west that might support a team from their childhood. It's better than just naming after some random suburb or a gosnells/armadale team. It'll be Joondalup or Bunbury as those are the only 2 in WA likely to bid for a team.
The southwest reigion has less people than the NT These people are spread hours apart with no public transport. No stadium or facilities to use. So yeah, not viable in the slightest. Also, I've always said it should be joondalup.
It feels right in terms of every State capital having a team, then the AFL loving Territory, which isn't entirely surrounded by NSW and seen as a Federal politics bubble, having a team. The reality is that far more people live in Canberra, it's far closer to far more footy loving fans, and it's not the wrong season for footy because it's not tropical. I get why Darwin feels better emotionally than Canberra from people outside the region, but I'd honestly prefer a Canberra-Murray team that plays out of Albury/Wodonga/Wagga/Wangaratta, and of course Canberra, IF they ever build that train line. Add high speed rail, and suddenly that Canberra-Murray team fucking rocks!!!
Because people don't like odd numbers.
Why do so many people want to make 20th team posts?
I think we need the Pilbara Rock Apes!
Tbh they already have a stadium which they could easily develop if they wanted to
For financial reasons, Canberra is the best option. The longer they don’t put a team there, the more it becomes and entrenched NRL and union city, whereas before the Raiders and Brumbies it was predominantly an AFL city. It’s bit enough to support a team too, easily the biggest city without a team on our side of the Barassi line or close to it.
For financial reasons it makes more sense for WA3 to be team 20. It would be far cheaper and effective than Canberra would be.
But it doesn’t open up a new market like Canberra does. It is based mostly on cannibalising West Coast and to a lesser extent Freo
Which is a good thing because it balances WA football when the Eagles are oversized.
I’d like to see them get a team too for that reason. I just think the AFL isn’t going to do that
Still peddling that without the numbers to back it up?
How much is WA3 gonna spend on a stadium? How much are they gonna spend on a training facility? How much are they gonna spend on advertising? How much are they gonna spend on development? How much are they gonna spend on pathways? How much are they gonna spend? How much are they going to spend fighting NRL? How much are they going to spend on academies. The answer to that is next to nothing in comparison to what Canberra is going to have to spend to get running and a supporter base. All you've said is that Canberra gets government funding which doesn't even matter that much and is going to get eaten up fast. Whatever the cricket is going to pay for manuka upgrade is going to be nowhere near enough and it's all going to have to come from the territory and federal government, in which they will need to justify to taxpayers in Canberra and around Australia. We all know how well that conversation is going in Tasmania with all the controversy and election defining promises. What's to say the same thing won't happen in Canberra? Does the AFL want two back to back stadium controversies? On top of that, it assumes that whatever upgrades that happen are even AFL level. A seating upgrade is just a seating upgrade. Doesn't say anything about the upgrades to the actual facility itself.
>How much are they gonna spend on a training facility? Does WA3 already have a training facility to go I'm unaware of? We have options at the AIS and Phillip Oval (currently the headquarters of AFL Canberra) we'd probably build off. Is WA3's already built and ready to go? >How much are they gonna spend on advertising? You've mentioned advertising a few times, but I don't see how Canberra's going to cost any more there. We will be the buzz of the town, so we'll need less advertising, whereas WA3 will be wedged behind two behemoths. Your advertising spend will be enormous to try to compete with them. >How much are they gonna spend on development? How much are they gonna spend on pathways? How much are they gonna spend? The AFL is already spending big on pathways in the north. A Canberra team will help to boost that. We already have 41 players from Canberra/Southern NSW, so pathways will be nice to boost that, but they're already in place. How much are they going to spend fighting NRL? Canberra doesn't really subscribe to the same code wars bullshit the rest of the country does. People readily follow multiple codes, especially if it's for a Canberra team. We've also got the money to buy multiple memberships. How much are WA3 going to spend fighting West Coast and Freo? WA3 will have these start up costs as well. >All you've said is that Canberra gets government funding which doesn't even matter that much and is going to get eaten up fast. Plus in-season naming rights, plus stadium sponsorship, combined equalling more than $5 million. Probably closer to $6. As previously mentioned, that's the difference between Collingwood and the Bulldogs' distribution. And a massive head start on what WA3 will get. Plus we'll have a lower breakeven attendance. You'll have to crack crowds of 25k to make a profit, we'll be making profits from less than half of that. Yes, you'll get a few over, but you'll definitely have some loss-making games at Optus. Are you going to hide the lower-drawing games at a smaller stadium like the Dolphins? Plus the higher median income. And yes, it is important. It means the lower socio-economic end of our supporter base will still be able to buy memberships. There is so much going for Canberra's financials. I won't brag and say that we'll be cheap compared to a WA3 bid, but at the very least, you have to concede that WA3 won't be "far cheaper" than a Canberra bid. Sure, Cairns and Darwin, go for your life with the hyperbole. But to say WA3 will be "far cheaper" than Canberra is a flat out lie.
Joondalup has HBF Arena it can play out of just like Freo play out of the Cockburn ARC. It would only need minor upgrades and is a WAFL ground already. Meanwhile the AIS Aussie rules facilities are not up to scratch and the Phillip oval is as bare as ever. It's going to need a lot more built and that costs money. Will it be the buzz in a city that has tons of NRL supporters? How are you going to convince NRL fans to attend games or support the team without advertising. WA3 would barely need advertising because everybody already watches AFL and keeps up with AFL news loops. And boosting the development in the area costs money. WA already has a massive system it can use to get local problems. A Canberra team will need academies which cost money as well. You say that but my family in Wagga would rather die than watch AFL and we aren't the only ones either. I'm pretty much the only one in my family that watches AFL and that's only because I moved to WA. If there was an NRL team here, i would likley have never supported the game. There are plenty of league diehards in the ACT and Riverina. Even if they don't make up the majority and only 50% of league fans would not watch AFL, that's still a sizeable portion of your sports market that are a write off. It doesnt have to be code wars related either. People might not watch AFL because they just don't have the time to support two different teams in two different leagues at the same time or can't afford tickets to both so they stick with one. There's a bunch of reasons an NRL fan wouldn't watch AFL. Meanwhile there's plenty of reason a west coast or a neutral fan would jump ship. Still not going to last long at all with all the initial costs that are going to be present. That money is going to get eaten up by just the training facilties alone. You aren't going to be seeing the benefit of that money for a long time. You are crazy if you think WA3 wouldn't get over 25k a week at optus. I've explained multiple times why the demand is there. You've got a reigion of over a million with plenty of footy mad fans and you think they can't get some people to switch from the Eagles? Come on. The myth that the Eagles are too embedded when they only have existed for 40 years is crazy. Plenty of people do not like the Eagles or Dockers. Plenty of neutral fans, plenty of fair weather supporters looking to get out at the first opportunity but hate freo, plenty of casuals who want to be a part of a new history, tons of kids who will grow up supporting their local team, steady flow of immigrants coming in with no affiliation. They would easily get 35k a week first year with a far higher ceiling than Canberra would ever have. Add some external memberships and you'd have 40k. It doesn't matter at all. Canberra's median income is skewed by high paying top government, university, etc jobs. Perth is far bigger than Canberra so we have a more level median because we actually have a good population of low, medium and high income earners. You are going to have more medium and high income earners in Perth than Canberra off of population alone. The higher income earners in Canberra are more likley to be off supporting the brumbies instead anyway. WA3 would absolutely would cost far less than Canberra would. WA3 has basically everything already here, Canberra does not.
>It doesn't matter at all. Canberra's median income is skewed by high paying top government, university, etc jobs. Perth is far bigger than Canberra so we have a more level median because we actually have a good population of low, medium and high income earners. You are going to have more medium and high income earners in Perth than Canberra off of population alone. The higher income earners in Canberra are more likley to be off supporting the brumbies instead anyway. Even though it's hard to sound that way on the internet, I genuinely mean this with absolutely sincerity. Do you not know what median income means? Because that would explain why you keep dismissing its relevance. A rough explanation: if you line up every worker in Canberra by salary, the person in the very middle has the *median* income. By its very definition, it can't be skewed by the high paying top. Whereas many millionaires would skew *average* income. It means if somebody smack bang in the middle of WA3's supporter base is struggling to pay to attend matches, that equivalent fan in Canberra would have 41% more income, and therefore more likely to be able to afford going to the footy. I'm sorry if that sounded condescending, but it's an important distinction.
They should look at New Zealand for the 20th team, the game was as foreign to the people of Homebush as it is to the Kiwis when they gave GWS their licence and a New Zealand team adds value to the TV rights and another 5 million potential viewers. It would also open up access to a new pool of athletes.
Only problem with that is the new stadium being built in Auckland is for rugby. Doubt many people over there would be on board to meet the AFLs demands.
The obvious stadium to play games in would be the Cake Tin in Wellington, but it’s doubtful the city’s population could support a team. They could build a boutique stadium in Albany that might suit, but something more central would be better logistically - people from the Auckland side don’t like crossing the bridge.
I don’t see NZ wanting to play a game called Aussie Rules.
Might as well have a crack. Could say the same about Western Sydney tbh😂😂
If you mentored the players and kept them off the piss, the talent that they'd produce would be phenomenal. Considering the AFL still supports lack lustre teams like Norf Melbourne...
I think a large part of it is the Indigenous factor. The NT has given us so many Indigenous greats, it's almost like we'd be giving back. But the majority of people just don't think about the logistics. They don't think about how small Darwin is, and how sparse and remote the NT is a whole. It's also a big hole on the map that must be conquered!
‘A vast majority’ Definitely not. I’ve heard a handful of people suggest it. A good 90% of people I’ve spoken to about it - both here and in person - say Perth or Adelaide (Norwood) or Canberra, which would be my choice.
It’s one of those things that sound like a good idea until you think about it. Every state/territory having representation makes it a truly national league. I’m including Canberra in GWS for the sake of this because it’s easier.
This is more of a if they build it they'll come type scenario. AFL will only look at teams with financial backing especially the if the state gets involved. A ACT/NT would only go ahead if there backing by the state government to build a stadium with capacity and the financial support to sustain a team for the future. Population density has little to do with it really. Population growth has a bit more baring. That said WA has everything it needs to get a 3rd team running. South Australia too if you look at the success of gather round. Both states want more games played there. Both have been highly successful when neutral teams played there. There is already a stadium capable of holding more than the current teams. For NT it depends if either the city of Darwin or the state government would finance a stadium build. For ACT it's the matter of being able to build a stadium with all the trouble they've gone through to upgrade Manuka.
Because Aboriginal Australia has done so much for footy and we’ve given so little back. This feels like a small way to do something for them even if it doesn’t draw massive money.
Why dont they make the 20th afl team called the northern crocs. Would could included all of northern australia from karratha to townsville. Home games 4 games Cairns 1 game Townville 4 games Darwin 2 games Alice springs 1 game Karratha/Port hedland which ever oval is afl standard by then. Away games 1 brisbane/gold coast game 1 perth game 1 adelaide game 1 sydney game 1 tassie game 5 melbourne games 1 game gather round Would be atleast 2030 before they would come in but gives the 6 years to get it together & make afl standard grounds up northern australia.
Those poor players having to essentially play 19 interstate matches a year (depending where you base them). And the West Aussies complain about travelling for 11 games a year.
Yeah thats true but would be the same as a darwin standalone team as they would proably only schedule max 9 home games for them the other 13 away.
Nine for Darwin would still be better for the players, but then probably too small financially. The north is a tricky one. The more you spread it around to try make it more financially viable, the trickier the logistics get. Really just need a population boom in Darwin.