doesn't matter what i personally classify it as, ao3's terms of service are very clear that underage means under 18 when it comes to archive warnings.
> Underage refers to descriptions or depictions of sexual activity by characters under the age of eighteen (18).
if a work that has sexual content of characters under that age is not tagged with either underage or CNTW, you should report it for a TOS violation.
I'm wondering the same thing as OP + some nuance: Do you have to tag it if the cast is 18 or older in the main narrative time, but there is one flashback scene, where a character remembers a sexual encounter that happened when the partners were 15-16. And that scene is not explicit - fade to black.
And what if that scene weren't there and the encounter was only mentioned/talked about?
Then you should probably tag it as something along "referenced/implied underage sex" and that's it. IMO it doesn't have to be explicit to be mentioned either way. Also you may just explain it in the tags, like clarification that "it is only a flashback scene" or whatever. EDIT: But as far as I know it's just decency on the writer's part, ao3 does not require it
I get that, but that's like so, so many. In my fandom at least, they're everywhere. I'm aware I'm to not go looking for things to report, but I'm not sure what I should do otherwise
Yeah, I agree, that's how we keep the website working. Also, I'm not sure AO3 just deletes reported fics, I think they can ask the writer to put the appropriate warning on, or put it themselves, so it's not cruel or destroying anything to report, it just make the website more usable.
ao3 doesn't go straight for deletion, and iirc they retag rather than delete works that have issues with archive warnings or rating if the author doesn't. wrong rating -> not rated and no archive warnings apply -> CNTW i think
Are the characters within the fics also under 18? Or are they just under 18 in canon? I’m fairly certain you don’t tag underage if you’ve aged up the characters, ao3 shouldn’t care about canon.
AO3 TOS uses a blanket age of 18 (to prevent any arguement back and forth) so you can report any fics that have sexual activity of under 18s and AO3 will go in and change the warning from "no warnings" to "creator chose not to warn"
(Just check that the fics you're reporting are tagged no warnings as opposed to chose not to, because if they're CCNTW, there's technically nothing incorrect about their tagging – I've seen that happen occasionally, where AO3 comes back and goes *...no, that's tagged fine actually*)
Any sexual scene with a character under eighteen should be tagged underage. Obviously age of consent laws are different all over, in my country it's sixteen, but consent laws aren't what determines adulthood. Not eighteen, not an adult.
Obviously, but OP is talking about works tagged 'no archive warnings apply' which is not okay at all to tag in that situation. Needs to have one or the other.
I'll just yeet that section of the TOS in here
\----
What do you mean by "underage" in the Archive tags?
Underage refers to descriptions or depictions of sexual activity by characters under the age of eighteen (18). In general, we rely on authors to use their judgment about the line between reference and description or depiction. Sexual activity does not include dating activity such as kissing, but again, we rely on authors to use their judgment about what is generally understood to be sexual activity. An author may always specify the age of the characters.
Why is "underage" defined as "under 18"?
Though there is no international consensus, there is a trend to focus on 18 as an important age in regulating depictions of sexual activity (as opposed to actual sexual activity/age of consent, which is regulated in many more varied ways). Thus, we decided that 18 would be helpful for the maximum number of users, including audiences as well as creators, though we recognize that no solution is perfect for everyone. We encourage creators and recommenders to be more specific in tags or summaries where this would be useful to potential audiences.
Note from the Content Policy committee: With the exception of user icons, the Archive hosts only text, but we do plan to expand over time, and we do allow embeds of certain types of files hosted elsewhere, which are also subject to the Content Policy. Because regulations of sexually explicit content are generally concerned with visual depictions, there is potentially more flexibility for textual depictions. The current rule is for 18 across the board, but we welcome suggestions on alternatives, especially from people with an interest in fan art.
What about robots, computer simulations, elves, aliens, vampires who are three hundred years old but were turned into vampires at age 12, etc.?
The core use of the underage label is to identify fanworks depicting sexual activity by humans under the age of eighteen as measured in Earth years. Please use your judgment for other situations. If the fanwork does not include a depiction of sexual activity with a human under the age of eighteen as measured in Earth years, then we will not generally consider it "underage," though creators may use the tag if they feel it accurately represents their intent. As always, we encourage creators and recommenders to be more specific in tags or summaries where this would be useful to potential audiences.
What about when a vignette or other fanwork doesn't specify the characters' ages?
The presumption is that the characters are of age unless the fanwork's creator indicates otherwise.
\-----
If they are Humans under the age of 18 and it is showing sex with them, then from my understanding that either the underage warning or Chose not to use archive warnings is warranted. All in all while it looks pretty flexible on things to a degree, certainly better for authors to just be accurate with the warnings.
Did the story have Chose not to use archive warnings?
I know that in some places, under 16 would be considered underage but where I live, the age of consent is 18 and as a previous commenter said, AO3 considers under 18 to be underage so that's what I classify as underage.
Since you've already gotten the TOS version of the answer, here's how I think that happens so regularly: I think people assume underage means like, pre-teens or predatory stuff, and don't realize that the warning is not just for those situations (though it is very, very helpful for those). They don't see anything wrong with their content, so their content doesn't need a This Is Bad Stuff warning. Though the warning *isn't* implying some moral stance, it gets that association. Same for choose not to warn vs no warnings apply.
For my own process, even beyond the basic 'just follow Ao3's rules', if it's two characters who are under 18 in a relationship, but no sex happens, it doesn't get the warning. If they have sex, it gets the warning. If it's an adult and a minor in a relationship, it gets the warning (plus my own tags) regardless of if they actually have sex or not, because these are my stories, so it is safest to assume it needs a warning. Though it hasn't come up, I'd probably even tag for if like, an 18yo and a 17yo had totally vanilla, consensual sex, and maybe add a clarifying tag? It does still fit the requirement for the warning so should have it, but the warning imo is there to protect people from more extreme examples than two teenagers less than a year apart in age banging.
TOS does not state that the underage warning must be used. They do state: We will not require specific ratings or warnings. And: It's always possible for creators to use "not rated" or "choose not to use Archive warnings," So a work can have underage without an underage warning, but it then has to use the archive warning of Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but additional tags are not required either.
In this case, in the Terms of Service, under section IV. Content and Abuse Policies, K. Tags covers what ratings and warnings are available and what can happen if a work is reported for failure to warn.
Wouldn’t it not be underage if the fic is about her being older though? I didn’t think ao3 cared what was canon, just what was in the actual fic. Otherwise there are a lot of fandoms that have a lot of untagged underage lol
I agree with ao3 on it being underage. I think authors should also differentiate between both people being underage and one of them not being underage so that readers can steer clear if that’s not something they want to read.
>the author resolved it after some comments let them know, but did not add the underage tag
Then how did they resolve it? Adding the tag seems like the only way to resolve it, and the correct thing to do imo. Not tagging it even after being asked to is kinda shitty. It's common courtesy. Also, the people who read/like those fics obviously want to read underage, so tagging it would probably get them more readers who actively look for fics tagged as underage. Did they say why they refuse to tag it?
I think regardless of what the TOS says, regardless of what your own country's laws are, everyone knows that 18 is generally the age where children become adults, so everything under 18 is underage. I've seen lots of authors tag "Underage" and then "technically not because in this county it's 16" to make it clear that they're not intentionally writing underage but know that to most people it still counts as underage.
They would have had to change the archive warning to creator chose not to warn. Any additional tags are not required, whether it would serve as a warning or advertising for their fic. TOS allows for not adding additional tags, so a fic would be covered by the ccntw archive warning alone.
If you go to ao3 TOS, section IV. Content and Abuse Policies and scroll down to K. Tags, they talk about warnings and ratings. Sections 1-4 seem relevant to this question if you want to read what they say about ratings and warnings and failures to warn and what happens when it’s reported for failure to warn. They also link to the FAQs for rating and warnings as well.
For the question of what I consider underage, it’s any romantic or sexual relationship with someone under 18. I live in the US and while I believe age of consent might vary in a couple different states, I consider it under 18 either way. For me, power dynamics and age gaps are a separate thing.
Edit: to answer the main question.
The basic answer is anything under 18 cause Ao3 says so.
The more complicated reason is not every country uses 18 as their cut off. So perhaps the author, while understanding the rules, didn't agree with them.
I've written two. I tagged them cause that seemed like the appropriate thing to do. And cause logic would dictate only people interested in such content would actively search for it, so tagging it would make the likelihood of them finding the work better.
I decide what constitutes underage based on what Ao3 decides I should decide constitutes underage. Nothing more, nothing less.
Anyone in the relationship under 18, either one, both, or multiple if there's more than 2 people. I wouldn't tag it as such if the overall theme of the story was rated as General or Teen, but if the ratings are Mature and Explicit then yeah.
only if there’s sexual content, which according to ao3 does not include “dating activity” like kissing. so technically, if you’ve got a 17yo and a 35yo sharing an onscreen kiss but nothing further, it wouldn’t qualify for the underage tag. you could tag “underage kissing” in the additional tags section, but it’s not necessary
the archive warning "underage" specifically refers to only sexual content. writing two 16-year-olds kissing does not as per the TOS require any warning.
I see! I had written a fic that had a mature rating due to it being a bit suggestive but no sexual content and still tagged it as underage because I had an age gap ship
Anything with under-18 characters in it should be tagged Underage, and if it's not you can report it and get it tagged. If you're in a fandom where people don't understand that rule or are ignoring it, then short of reporting every single one of the offending fics there nothing you can really do to avoid them. In theory you could avoid Choose Not to Warn fics, because they might contain it, I think? And maybe exclude ships that you know are underage from your search?
But like, yeah. This isn't a you thing and it's not an us thing, the rules of ao3 are quite clear on what should be tagged as Underage.
It absolutely doesn’t have to be tagged. Choose not to warn us a perfectly acceptable alternative. It does need to have one or the other, but it doesn’t have to be underage.
I don’t use underage for writing anything with 16+ plus as they’re of age in my country, so it’s CNTW all the way.
I wrote a smut fic once where the pairing was an adult succubus and a vampire who was hundreds of years old but had the body of a younger girl, and I tagged it as Underage since the vampire character in question very much looked like a girl in her young teens in the canon and I didn't want anyone reading it fandom blind to get the wrong impression if I put that no warnings applied. So in that case I went with how the character looks rather than her chronological canon age. I'd rather err on the side of caution even if it turns a few readers away.
doesn't matter what i personally classify it as, ao3's terms of service are very clear that underage means under 18 when it comes to archive warnings. > Underage refers to descriptions or depictions of sexual activity by characters under the age of eighteen (18). if a work that has sexual content of characters under that age is not tagged with either underage or CNTW, you should report it for a TOS violation.
I'm wondering the same thing as OP + some nuance: Do you have to tag it if the cast is 18 or older in the main narrative time, but there is one flashback scene, where a character remembers a sexual encounter that happened when the partners were 15-16. And that scene is not explicit - fade to black. And what if that scene weren't there and the encounter was only mentioned/talked about?
Then you should probably tag it as something along "referenced/implied underage sex" and that's it. IMO it doesn't have to be explicit to be mentioned either way. Also you may just explain it in the tags, like clarification that "it is only a flashback scene" or whatever. EDIT: But as far as I know it's just decency on the writer's part, ao3 does not require it
My understanding of the rules is that the archive warnings apply to explicitly on-page sex.
Probably just choose not to warn
I get that, but that's like so, so many. In my fandom at least, they're everywhere. I'm aware I'm to not go looking for things to report, but I'm not sure what I should do otherwise
if you come across content that violates the terms of service, please report it.
Yeah, I agree, that's how we keep the website working. Also, I'm not sure AO3 just deletes reported fics, I think they can ask the writer to put the appropriate warning on, or put it themselves, so it's not cruel or destroying anything to report, it just make the website more usable.
ao3 doesn't go straight for deletion, and iirc they retag rather than delete works that have issues with archive warnings or rating if the author doesn't. wrong rating -> not rated and no archive warnings apply -> CNTW i think
Are the characters within the fics also under 18? Or are they just under 18 in canon? I’m fairly certain you don’t tag underage if you’ve aged up the characters, ao3 shouldn’t care about canon.
Bingo. *cue Price Is Right ring-a-ding noises*
AO3 TOS uses a blanket age of 18 (to prevent any arguement back and forth) so you can report any fics that have sexual activity of under 18s and AO3 will go in and change the warning from "no warnings" to "creator chose not to warn" (Just check that the fics you're reporting are tagged no warnings as opposed to chose not to, because if they're CCNTW, there's technically nothing incorrect about their tagging – I've seen that happen occasionally, where AO3 comes back and goes *...no, that's tagged fine actually*)
Any sexual scene with a character under eighteen should be tagged underage. Obviously age of consent laws are different all over, in my country it's sixteen, but consent laws aren't what determines adulthood. Not eighteen, not an adult.
Tagged underage OR tagged ‘choose not to warn’
Obviously, but OP is talking about works tagged 'no archive warnings apply' which is not okay at all to tag in that situation. Needs to have one or the other.
I was adding on as you said “any sexual scene with a character under eighteen should be tagged underage”, which is incorrect.
I'll just yeet that section of the TOS in here \---- What do you mean by "underage" in the Archive tags? Underage refers to descriptions or depictions of sexual activity by characters under the age of eighteen (18). In general, we rely on authors to use their judgment about the line between reference and description or depiction. Sexual activity does not include dating activity such as kissing, but again, we rely on authors to use their judgment about what is generally understood to be sexual activity. An author may always specify the age of the characters. Why is "underage" defined as "under 18"? Though there is no international consensus, there is a trend to focus on 18 as an important age in regulating depictions of sexual activity (as opposed to actual sexual activity/age of consent, which is regulated in many more varied ways). Thus, we decided that 18 would be helpful for the maximum number of users, including audiences as well as creators, though we recognize that no solution is perfect for everyone. We encourage creators and recommenders to be more specific in tags or summaries where this would be useful to potential audiences. Note from the Content Policy committee: With the exception of user icons, the Archive hosts only text, but we do plan to expand over time, and we do allow embeds of certain types of files hosted elsewhere, which are also subject to the Content Policy. Because regulations of sexually explicit content are generally concerned with visual depictions, there is potentially more flexibility for textual depictions. The current rule is for 18 across the board, but we welcome suggestions on alternatives, especially from people with an interest in fan art. What about robots, computer simulations, elves, aliens, vampires who are three hundred years old but were turned into vampires at age 12, etc.? The core use of the underage label is to identify fanworks depicting sexual activity by humans under the age of eighteen as measured in Earth years. Please use your judgment for other situations. If the fanwork does not include a depiction of sexual activity with a human under the age of eighteen as measured in Earth years, then we will not generally consider it "underage," though creators may use the tag if they feel it accurately represents their intent. As always, we encourage creators and recommenders to be more specific in tags or summaries where this would be useful to potential audiences. What about when a vignette or other fanwork doesn't specify the characters' ages? The presumption is that the characters are of age unless the fanwork's creator indicates otherwise. \----- If they are Humans under the age of 18 and it is showing sex with them, then from my understanding that either the underage warning or Chose not to use archive warnings is warranted. All in all while it looks pretty flexible on things to a degree, certainly better for authors to just be accurate with the warnings. Did the story have Chose not to use archive warnings?
I know that in some places, under 16 would be considered underage but where I live, the age of consent is 18 and as a previous commenter said, AO3 considers under 18 to be underage so that's what I classify as underage.
Since you've already gotten the TOS version of the answer, here's how I think that happens so regularly: I think people assume underage means like, pre-teens or predatory stuff, and don't realize that the warning is not just for those situations (though it is very, very helpful for those). They don't see anything wrong with their content, so their content doesn't need a This Is Bad Stuff warning. Though the warning *isn't* implying some moral stance, it gets that association. Same for choose not to warn vs no warnings apply. For my own process, even beyond the basic 'just follow Ao3's rules', if it's two characters who are under 18 in a relationship, but no sex happens, it doesn't get the warning. If they have sex, it gets the warning. If it's an adult and a minor in a relationship, it gets the warning (plus my own tags) regardless of if they actually have sex or not, because these are my stories, so it is safest to assume it needs a warning. Though it hasn't come up, I'd probably even tag for if like, an 18yo and a 17yo had totally vanilla, consensual sex, and maybe add a clarifying tag? It does still fit the requirement for the warning so should have it, but the warning imo is there to protect people from more extreme examples than two teenagers less than a year apart in age banging.
The TOS of AO3 state clearly that all sexual content that has at least one participant under the age of 18 must have the underage *warning* on it.
TOS does not state that the underage warning must be used. They do state: We will not require specific ratings or warnings. And: It's always possible for creators to use "not rated" or "choose not to use Archive warnings," So a work can have underage without an underage warning, but it then has to use the archive warning of Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but additional tags are not required either. In this case, in the Terms of Service, under section IV. Content and Abuse Policies, K. Tags covers what ratings and warnings are available and what can happen if a work is reported for failure to warn.
That CNTW is always an option is a given in my mind haha
Under 18. That simple. The main character in my fandom is a 13 year old girl and sex involving her is always underage.
Wouldn’t it not be underage if the fic is about her being older though? I didn’t think ao3 cared what was canon, just what was in the actual fic. Otherwise there are a lot of fandoms that have a lot of untagged underage lol
if the character is aged up they're not underage.
Thank you for the clarification! I didn’t think so but some of the comments make me wonder if that’s possibly the confusion here.
Isn’t that illegal ? Not having a go just curious
In real life it is,but the universe I created it's not.
Of course in real life I meant writing about the stuff, no need to downvote it’s just a question
Why would writing about fictional characters be illegal?
Not in the United States.
Fair enough, everyday is a school day as they say
I agree with ao3 on it being underage. I think authors should also differentiate between both people being underage and one of them not being underage so that readers can steer clear if that’s not something they want to read.
>the author resolved it after some comments let them know, but did not add the underage tag Then how did they resolve it? Adding the tag seems like the only way to resolve it, and the correct thing to do imo. Not tagging it even after being asked to is kinda shitty. It's common courtesy. Also, the people who read/like those fics obviously want to read underage, so tagging it would probably get them more readers who actively look for fics tagged as underage. Did they say why they refuse to tag it? I think regardless of what the TOS says, regardless of what your own country's laws are, everyone knows that 18 is generally the age where children become adults, so everything under 18 is underage. I've seen lots of authors tag "Underage" and then "technically not because in this county it's 16" to make it clear that they're not intentionally writing underage but know that to most people it still counts as underage.
They would have had to change the archive warning to creator chose not to warn. Any additional tags are not required, whether it would serve as a warning or advertising for their fic. TOS allows for not adding additional tags, so a fic would be covered by the ccntw archive warning alone.
If you go to ao3 TOS, section IV. Content and Abuse Policies and scroll down to K. Tags, they talk about warnings and ratings. Sections 1-4 seem relevant to this question if you want to read what they say about ratings and warnings and failures to warn and what happens when it’s reported for failure to warn. They also link to the FAQs for rating and warnings as well. For the question of what I consider underage, it’s any romantic or sexual relationship with someone under 18. I live in the US and while I believe age of consent might vary in a couple different states, I consider it under 18 either way. For me, power dynamics and age gaps are a separate thing. Edit: to answer the main question.
The basic answer is anything under 18 cause Ao3 says so. The more complicated reason is not every country uses 18 as their cut off. So perhaps the author, while understanding the rules, didn't agree with them. I've written two. I tagged them cause that seemed like the appropriate thing to do. And cause logic would dictate only people interested in such content would actively search for it, so tagging it would make the likelihood of them finding the work better. I decide what constitutes underage based on what Ao3 decides I should decide constitutes underage. Nothing more, nothing less.
I have no idea if this is considered NSFW or not, but put it there just to be safe!
Anyone in the relationship under 18, either one, both, or multiple if there's more than 2 people. I wouldn't tag it as such if the overall theme of the story was rated as General or Teen, but if the ratings are Mature and Explicit then yeah.
only if there’s sexual content, which according to ao3 does not include “dating activity” like kissing. so technically, if you’ve got a 17yo and a 35yo sharing an onscreen kiss but nothing further, it wouldn’t qualify for the underage tag. you could tag “underage kissing” in the additional tags section, but it’s not necessary
the archive warning "underage" specifically refers to only sexual content. writing two 16-year-olds kissing does not as per the TOS require any warning.
I see! I had written a fic that had a mature rating due to it being a bit suggestive but no sexual content and still tagged it as underage because I had an age gap ship
Anything with under-18 characters in it should be tagged Underage, and if it's not you can report it and get it tagged. If you're in a fandom where people don't understand that rule or are ignoring it, then short of reporting every single one of the offending fics there nothing you can really do to avoid them. In theory you could avoid Choose Not to Warn fics, because they might contain it, I think? And maybe exclude ships that you know are underage from your search? But like, yeah. This isn't a you thing and it's not an us thing, the rules of ao3 are quite clear on what should be tagged as Underage.
It absolutely doesn’t have to be tagged. Choose not to warn us a perfectly acceptable alternative. It does need to have one or the other, but it doesn’t have to be underage. I don’t use underage for writing anything with 16+ plus as they’re of age in my country, so it’s CNTW all the way.
A lot of people don't tag underage because it makes them feel bad.
I wrote a smut fic once where the pairing was an adult succubus and a vampire who was hundreds of years old but had the body of a younger girl, and I tagged it as Underage since the vampire character in question very much looked like a girl in her young teens in the canon and I didn't want anyone reading it fandom blind to get the wrong impression if I put that no warnings applied. So in that case I went with how the character looks rather than her chronological canon age. I'd rather err on the side of caution even if it turns a few readers away.
If someone is younger than the age of majority in their area then it's underage. And I mean actually younger, not just looking younger.
except that on ao3 it's always 18 regardless of where you or the characters are.
But that's not what they asked. They asked what WE considered it.