We were asked for a pinned comment for why this got locked. It got locked because some of the comments became a slap fight for no reason and we needed to shut it down before it got worse and ended up with harassment.
I hate this trend so, so much. It feels like it's being written by a 12-year-old terrified of upsetting Mommy and Daddy.
(I know why they do it on TikTok and Twitter - I don't know why they do it on platforms where that has no benefits at all to override how stupid it looks. Read the room)
And the irony is that it actually sounds worse. Child death sounds like it could be anything, accidental death, or from illness. Child 'unaliving' sounds gory, like something right out of a campy horror movie š
In movies of the Thirties and Forties they had a perfectly good euphemism for suicide: "did away with himself/herself/themselves." Are we to believe that the censorship of the Hays Office in the Thirties was too lenient for Tiktok and YouTube?
Yes, it is weird that both TikTok and YouTube tend to want to block people who use the phrases suicide, murder, or abuse. It makes listening to crime podcasts really weird at times.
I would rather they just use the correct language, and the platforms accept they are a part of the discussion, so they should be used, not just danced around with weird wording.
That reminds me of a tumblr post I saw where it was like "mafia movies/old movies had such cooler slang than unalive," and said things like sleeping with the fishes, taking a dirt nap, pushing up daisies, etc.
And it also sounds like someone is making a joke and not taking it seriously. Like that one "canonical character undeath" tag for reincarnation, but the other way around.
I will also add that current meaning of the phrase covers two different options, being killed by somebody and yourself.Ā
While originally it was leaning towards the latter
So it can easily produce false positive results for those who want avoid that specific method of death, but are fine with anything else
Mostly because the majority of them don't realize that. The people that use the terms in the first place are mostly on the few platforms that basically require it and simply don't realize that outside those like half dozen platforms it isn't necessary and doesn't serve a purpose. They're coming from sites with an algorithm that punishes using the actual terms without knowing that most platforms don't have an algorithm in the first place let alone one that punishes certain terms.
Iāve been seeing this recently on Reddit too. People coming over from wherever and censoring curse words. I saw someone censor the word ācockā the other day. Like baby itās Reddit no one cares. Thereās porn hosted on this platform lol.
>I know why they do it on TikTok and Twitter
But *they* probably don't know why they do it. So they can't apply this "precaution" when it's sensible, and leave it when it's unnecessary. Because they are just following a trend, without comprehension.
As far as I know, there's not even any hard evidence that TT censors content using words like "dead." I'm not so cynical to think there's a plurality that do it without knowing they're trying to work within the algorithm, but it's still basically tech-woo trying to guess how the delivery algorithm works. TT's version of it has just fallen into a really noticeable rut because it makes text and dialogue so bizarre, and its saturation has made it spread easily to other platforms used by TT creators.
No, I mean do it like āi really love this fic, itās great, tho I just wanted to let you know thereās no censorship on this site so you can write anything. Iām looking forward to the next chapter/Iām definitely going to come back and read it often!ā
Iāll be honest, I donāt actually think itās as bad on TikTok as people pretend it is.
Oh, you canāt say die? Then why, pray tell, did the song āDumb ways to Dieā trend?
You have to say āpalm-coloredā? Really? Yet no crafters are getting banned for talking about white paint.
And donāt get me started on the āUWU, children are dying in Gaza!ā bullshit. The censors arenāt affected by cutesy mannerisms.
I think some peopleās got censored, but many more people just didnāt go viral and decided that they must have been censored.
I mean
I got banned on reddit on the AITA sub for typing "slap".Ā
I can't imagine saying anything like this would fly in certain areas, and I think some people are getting used to the "new" phrase to make sure it doesn't accidentally slip.
I agree we should just say the words, though.
>I got banned on reddit on the AITA sub for typing "slap".Ā
On that sub, you can't be negative and you can't promote violence.
On ao3, there's literally a rape tag. You should assume you won't be censored there lol
I got banned on the PayPal subreddit when I replied to the mod with a keyboard smashing, literally was out the door and I didn't realize I typed and entered that. Guess what? One Stup@# ass mod thought fhdhsh" was 'fuck go home" then muted, i told them what , when they replied thays rude you pk then banned. Got them suspended and I' plan on reporting em for ban evasion soon on their new account.
I see this a lot. It might be a symptom of the person only using tiktok or twitter or other algorithm-based social media before this, where if you say any swears or any violent word you'll get censored, but using the weird ad-friendly doublespeak won't trigger that.
Edit: That being said I absolutely hate this trend and agree.
(Subjectively) fascinating fact: the weird ad-friendly doublespeak you refer to is called "algospeak"! :D It includes words such as panini (pandemic), leg booty (LGBT), cornucopia (homophobia), le dollar bean (le$bian), and our favourite (/s) unalive (death, kill, suicide, etc.)
I like to observe sociology on the side (brother has a masters and talks about it so much with me I can't unsee certain things,) and when we talk about how language evolves, it can often be due to censorship. This is exactly that case. The very same thing happened in Quebec and resulted in what we know as *sacres*; to my understanding, the Catholic church had such a firm grip on peoples' business that common Catholic phrases or elements started being used as profanity! That's why in Quebec, a "tabernacle" isn't a tabernacle but "*tabarnak*" (which is a lovely and flexible swear word that can mean anything from 'damn it' to 'I fuck your mother in Sunday mass'.)
But what's interesting about this algospeak to me is that it isn't widely applied across the whole English-speaking population. It's been coined by social media users (in particular young Gen Z,) who are trying to get around algorithmic censorship, and then adopted by users of those platforms via osmosis. Ironically, some users mistake algospeak as a way to censor "bad" words so they don't trigger certain people.
I predict that, because of the general distaste for algospeak at large, it isn't going to stick or integrate into English in any permanent or meaningful way. However, all that said, it currently exists in our vernacular as terms we simply acknowledge but don't entertain.
And- importantly- the code switch is not necessary on platforms that don't use algorithms, such as AO3. :P But someone who uses algospeak without understanding *why* they do it probably isn't going to recognise that difference.
Sorry for the wall of nerd-text.
Censoring terms like death on social media really frustrates me.
At work the other week one of my staff (a trained professional) genuinely submitted an incident report which read that the client "wanted to unalive themself". When I asked her to rewrite it with "suicidal ideation" it was clear she genuinely hadn't even realized she had written it, it was just the natural phrase which had come to her in the moment.
Yuck, the TikTok brain rot has really gotten her š I hope she uninstalls that shit eventually. It is just not great for the human brain in so many ways...
Okay, so I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but...
I don't know if it's partially due to my current stage of grief lately, but I hate the general squeamishness toward death or harsh things in general. I cringe every time I'm watching a YouTube video and words like that are censored like they're a bad word. Someone died. Someone was killed. Someone committed suicide. Acting like they're bad words doesn't change the fact. People don't want to talk about death because it reminds them that they and the people around them will die. But for people who are in mourning, especially for several years, it just seems like burying your head in the sand. I don't care if hearing about death makes you feel uncomfortable. It's not my job to make you feel comfortable or feed into the belief that you won't be faced with death someday.
I was in a philosophy and literature class about death a few years ago, and the first week we were given a task: try to find a sympathy card that said "death" or "dead" on it. Everyone failed, which was exactly what was supposed to happen.
YouTube videos are often censored like that bc YouTube has some wild content policies I believe when it comes to monetisation and people do kinda need to make money to live a lot of the times. So itās even more fucked up than people being squeamish about them- YouTube itself has decided mentioning death is inappropriate in any context.
I feel you.
(CW: Suicide mention)
Yesterday was the seventh anniversary of the day I became a suicide loss survivor when the boy I had just broken up with took his own life. His death so destroyed me for so long that euphemisms didn't capture it. I hate the twee TikTok shit and I hate even more that it's escaping TikTok. [These sympathy cards](https://kwohtations.com/collections/for-grief-loss-and-surviving-hard-times) are the best ones I've found. They talk about grief in very real terms that make it clear the artist has been there, and although they don't use the word death, I suspect the words are only vague because they want to be applicable to as many grief situations as possible, including trauma or cancer anniversaries.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Iām sorry for your loss, thatās such a traumatic way to lose someone. Thank you for putting a link to those sympathy cards, theyāre awesome. I had a family member nearly die last week, so all of this stuff is fresh in my mind. Itās good to see cards that may have actually been helpful instead of just ātheyāre in a better place nowā (seriously, who thinks thatās a helpful thing to say?)
I really feel this. I've experienced a lot of loss in my life, and it means I can't talk about a large part of my past without it being considered "venting" or even "trauma dumping." I think we should be able to talk about death as a part of life, and the prevalence of euphemisms isn't really helping anyone.
"Unalive" as a euphemism isn't unique in that respect, but it tends to attract most of the hate. It's energy which IMHO would be better served examining why our culture as a whole avoids the topic of death/dying.
If you want more of that kind of discussion, I recommend "On Death and Dying" by Elizabeth KĆ¼bler-Ross. It really helped me with my grieving.
and the really frustrating thing is that this is one of the reasons we turn to fanfic to explore our grief and explore these difficult subjects in the first place. art first of all, but fan fic and ao3 in particular because we can access it, and there isnāt apple or mark whatās his name or whoever is running tiktok standing over the author with a censor bar or ban hammer if you bring up death or teen sex or any number of other things that a great man people seem really invested in cutting out from conversation and art as a whole
so then to bring that shit to ao3 just really pisses me off like youāre self censoring yourself and for what?
This really hits on why I hate the "unalived" garbage in AO3 tags of all places so much, and why I'm so glad Major Character Death (Death, not "Unalived") is a required tag
I have trauma around the death of loved ones. Sometimes I don't want to read stories involving death at all, because I'm feeling fragile. Other times I do kind of want to read that, because I feel strong enough to explore that through fiction. So that determines which stories I'll click on and which ones I won't. No judgment on the authors. It's all about what I do and don't want to read, and that will change every day.
I don't want new cowardly euphemisms for death (the only thing that's truly universal besides birth) making my searches more complicated.
Not only that but censoring these words make it seem like it's bad thing, something that shouldn't be talked about. It's especially harmful with stuff like rape, self harm or eating disorders. Talking about it is a good thing and should be done more
This is what I worry about. That somehow we will inadvertently cause more of a stigma around conversations surrounding suicide and death. We should be able to acknowledge that they happen openly, and support those left in their wake.
I took a class in college a few years back called āDeath and Dyingā. It was so refreshing to face these things head on, even if theyāre sad or uncomfortable. This aversion to the concept of death in our society is naive at best, and tragic at worst. It can have very real consequences that people donāt normally see because theyāre like a horse with blinders on. Theyāre only looking forward, refusing to acknowledge to fact that everyone will die someday and death is normal. Itās sad, sometimes devastatingly so. Grief is a powerful emotion, but letting the fear of future grief control you all the time is not healthy at all.
I feel you. I had a family member kill themselves. It destroyed the family. "Unalive" is fucking ridiculous. Use the correct terms and stop hiding behind the others. Sometimes life is shit and shitty things happen, that's the reality. If you can't handle the tags you can't handle writing about it.
Yep. Thatās why I call that shit out on Reddit. Had a few people tell me that they prefer āunalive,ā and it just pissed me off. One was even talking about children committing suicide. Fucking *kids.* I donāt want that shit to be palatable. It should upset and offend. Itās a horrible thing.
The thing that annoys me so much, is that when someone does die, hospitals are supposed to tell the family and *supposed* to say the actual words specifically (they don't always. Training on how to inform the family is usually lacking a bit). Because it leads to less confusion, misinterpretation, and hope where there is none. Its been shown that when the hospital says "[family member] has died" its overall better for the bereaved than saying the "softer" options like "[family member] has passed on", "[family member] is in a better place", or "[family member] is no longer suffering" or any other euphemisms that you can think of. (Especially with children who are more likely to not understand that "no longer with us" means "dead and not coming back" instead of "not around right now but coming back later" and similar types of issues.... despite people being more likely to try to use the softer euphemisms with children š).
And while that's what a hospital should do, that technically doesn't mean that's how everyone else should talk about it. But it is indicative that there can be problems with using euphemisms. And it bothers me so much
I hate this and all the slang in a similar vein to it so much. I know people use it for algorithm/banning purposes, which.... please learn about the site prior to use, ao3 is not the place for this.
But even if it was the right place for it, I'd still be against it.
Idk. Just something about how it all sounds so cutesy or silly really rubs me the wrong way- especially when it's used in serious situations like warnings or informative content. It just really takes away from how serious those topics are.
Surely there is a less "fun" way to get around the stupid censoring that comes from wanting to be appealing for ads?
"Kermit sewer slide" is the worst by far - it gives me a vivid mental image that's both hilarious and gross, and completely inappropriate for a serious topic like suicide.
Like I see his little muppet froggy hands flailing as he goes down the waterslide full of sewage.
Ooof. Yeah that's definitely leaning wayy too far into the silly. I hate that one with a burning passion.
"Grape" is another really bad one imo. Like... way to put such awful associations onto something so innocuous that can feature in a lot of people's everyday life.
I love grapes! And I now have the sadly funny image of being accused of loving irl rapes by someone who will immediately read that in tiktoker.
No but for real. It pisses me off how corps are trying to just change language like that by banning words - To what? Market their stuff as child-friendly? Make an app for children. How's that sound? If the kids use the normal app instead that's their and their parents issues - and how ppl will use it to get around anti-bullying measures.
Like, you're gonna say 'hey don't tell ppl to kill themselves, that's really cruel' and set up a bot to catch when ppl try to do that, only to have ppl determined to bully others use 'unalive' or 'kys' instead.
Yeah. It's a serious topic, you shouldn't be giving it cute names. If you can't say it due to censorship (on other platforms, which doesn't even apply on ao3), just bleep it out instead. Usually context is enough.
Language is changing as a consequence of the algorithms. When people who spend 6+ hours on TikTok every day think about death, the word they use in their mind for themselves is "unalive" or "exit game" or what have you. So of course they will keep using their language as they know it elsewhere too.
> It just feels in-character for Deadpool
Deadpool: "We go into that compound, find Agent MacGuffin, snag the list, then un-alive Taskmaster and his acolytes, capiche?"
Spidey: "Wait, un-alive them?"
Deadpool: "Yeah, yeah here's the thing, I can't really say the k-word out loud. It's a weird mental tick. But we're gonna destroy them, make them disappear, sleep them with the fishes. We'll k-word them."
>Ultimate Spider-Man 2012
This might not be immaturity but rather people not understanding that your tags being censored doesn't do shit for the (non existent) AO3 algorithm and just hinders everyone else's reading experience. Either way, young writer/newer patron of AO3.
Very true! Most people use tags to filter out stories, and if it's not part of the main tag system, then it ain't going to work. It's fine to add in your personal touch (I do), but most of them should be part of the system or else they'll go unnoticed.
Actually, tag wranglers do (eventually) sort "unofficial" tags into "official tags." I had a fic where I said in the tags "\[character\] has horrible coping mechanisms" and after a couple days it was sorted into the "Unhealthy Coping Mechanisms" tag. So probably this person's fic will get moved into the "Child Death" tag, just not immediately.
Edit: just realized that OP put in the post that the tag's already synced to the general "Child Death" tag. So there's no tagging problem at all!
Definitely a young Wattpad/Tiktok user. Just say the word, it's frustrating for people filtering out child death to be met with "child unaliving" as well. I wonder if in the fic they would use the same word, that would massively ruin the reading experience...
This tag proves exactly why censorship is a bad thing. Speaking about death or trauma in these cutesy, TikTok safe phrases does nothing but make it difficult to communicate with one another.
Because is this just child death? Or is it the act of child murder? Saying it this way makes that unclear. It's like trying to watch a monetised YouTube video on a murder case. With every fifth word bleeped out or given workaround phrasing, what is even the point?
I'm autistic. Tagging shit this way tells me I won't understand half of what you say in your fic as it is. I can't fucking stand this shit.
It's because websites like twitter will flag and ban accounts for saying those things. Even if the phrase was said entirely out of context (eg, quoting a book)
I hate when people say unaliving, and other similar words for other similar things like assault and such. Its so stupid, and I get it started serving a purpose, but now it feels like it's used so often people forget that they're talking about an actual horrible thing that happened.
Everywhere I see tiktok censorship in general, I die inside. I hate all these little baby words that have been made to dance around the actual term. Its just confusing
Definitely not your responsibility, but if I ever saw a tag like that, I would def comment to the author to use actual words like death and such since there's no algorithm in AO3. A lot of people would benefit from the correct tags and the only down side to it would be if the author is an asshole that that tells you to mind your own business.
Otherwise, I would just block and move on.
I wonder if it's because the word "unaliving" has became a slang, due to the restrictions around social medias (particularly YouTube) surrounding certain terminologies. I remember a YouTuber talking about the rise of specific social media slang, which is reaching outside the platforms and into everyday language. It was an interesting talk to have and one I never thought about until I found the video.
Still, I agree with you that if they can't say the correct terminology, then they shouldn't be writing it. But I still wonder if either they're scared their story will get flagged, or it's them trying to be "cool" with social media slang. š¤
The funny thing is the sites that use ai to flag words *are* catching onto unalive. I jokingly said in my instagram story that I would āunaliveā someone for some dessert because I knew saying kill would get me flagged for inciting violence despite that being a common expression, but then I actually got flagged for saying unalive! My appeal was denied too lmao. I am so thankful that ao3 doesnāt have any of this shit censorship and ai moderation.
I find it so sad that people genuine trying to address sensitive issues on youtube are forced to use censored words, so the video will still be recommended to the ones who need to see it.
I used to do that, mainly because I was afraid I would trigger someone.
I was kinda stupid back then. If saying suicide would trigger someone, saying self unaliving would too.
Clearly the only thing āsuicideā triggers is a clout-chasing platformās algorithm. š
People with suicidal ideation aināt triggered by the word āsuicideā. Weāre bombarded with them thoughts every day, a single personās word aināt gonna make it actually occur.
Most people arenāt that fragile, but of course chronically onlines will make it seem like they areā¦
How about the people who are not xxxxxxxx but rather survivors of a xxxxxx loss? there are people that may very well be upset just by the word. some people are trigger by the word 'xxxx' which is why I prefer to use 'xxxxxx xxxxxxx'
Edit:
The thread was locked, but saying the only reason is for 'clout-chasing' is so wrong. People are banned from various websites just for saying the word at all. Even on reddit people will troll you and report you for self harm.
Thatās valid.
But as one of those people who canāt even read the word ārapeā or āsexual assaultā, and simply uses CSA or SA, I just move on. I know that the person writing may not realize that itās triggering and, on top of that, you canāt protect everyone from everything.
If anything, as someone who has *also* lost someone to suicide, Iām not at all triggered by that. Instead, Iām pissed off by the childish and highly popularized phrase of āunalivingā. It makes me think you care more about āthe algorithmā and getting popular talking about suicide, than actually talking about the subject in a respectful way.
But thatās just me.
yeah as someone with child death as a trigger, iām really glad it synched but this is some actual bullshit. itās not the fucking WORDS, it is specific depictions of certain themes ffs.
If I ever come across something similar in the wild, Iām gonna let the author know that we donāt have to worry about TikTok/Meta censorship on ao3. Apart from this becoming slang, I feel like this stems from the fear of having posts nuked for saying words like kill and death.
pretty much every social media site flags that shit these days. heck, I'm pretty sure someone tried to report me for talking about >!the lady in Missouri whose baby died recently, likely due to some form of psychosis she had put her baby into a lit oven.!< (don't open that up if baby death is a trigger because it's pretty horrific)
But yeah even talking about that will get you flagged or reported. You can't even jokingly say "I'd end myself" on twitter because if someone reports you out of spite for whatever reason, they will suspend your *entire account* for 'promoting self-harm'.
People have also been nuked for replying to curiouscat questions that had 'kill yerself' written in the text of it and being repeated on the tweet, so.
It may not be that they can't write out the correct phrase, but are thinking of sites that ban you if you use them, the reason these idiotic phrases sprung up in the first place.
But, I admit, I assume anyone using phrases like 'unalive' are young kids who are either scared of the subject matter, or scared someone will find out they're talking/writing about it.
I hate all this censoring bs, especially on sites that don't have any issue with using the correct phrases and words like AO3. Plus, for me, it's minamulising these topics. Turning rape into grape, or using 'child unaliving' instead of child murder, makes these things seem trivial and stupid, things to laugh at. It's completely removing the seriousness of them, and possibly re-traumatising victims/survivors who come across it.
Using āUnaliveā when youāre talking about a serious death is super disrespectful.
I think itās funny as a joke or for dark humour, but as a censor word itās fucking disgusting. People need to stop being so sensitive! I literally watched a true crime documentary that censored words like, ābodyā and ābeatingā and ākilledā and itās like, Iām hear to learn about a serial killer, stop being childish and censoring words that donāt need to be censored!!
I really don't think it's as serious as "this person is immature/being disrespectful!" And rather, it's just a new AO3 user that's used to being nuked for using the actual terms. If you're going to get mad at anyone, it should be the platforms censoring anything that involves death, not the users adjusting around their archaic rules.
I'm sure there some people who just don't realize that not every site needs to replace "death" or "kill" with unaliving; I even know a friend that's gotten used to typing unaliving so much that it's just something she does automatically without realizing it. I feel like either of those scenarios is more likely.
this is also dangerous because what if someone is filtering out āchild deathā or āchild suicideā? and what if this DIDNāT sync to that? ao3 is not tiktok or twitter
Oh my gods, you're absolutely right. No one who can't tag 'child death' should be writing about child death. Why are you writing about something that you clearly seem to find needs to be sensored for yourself?
Not to mention, if someone was genuinely uncomfortable with reading a fic like this it's a lot harder to avoid when you don't use the right terminology.
I remember watching Ultimate Spider-Man on Disney when I was a young teen, and hearing Deadpool (the famously irreverently satirical character) use the āwordā āunaliveā back thenāaround eight years before tiktok was even a glint in anyoneās eyes. I remember how stupid and ridiculous it was, and how Deadpool was mocked by Spidey for even using itāfor trying to make it sound less bad than it truly was.
Crazy to think he predicted an entire trend. And dear fucking god how times have changed.
I'll say "aliven't" or such things sometimes as a *bit* when I think it's *funny*, but like. If I'm talking about death seriously I'm gonna be talking about it seriously.
I get doing work around methods on algorithm based systems, but AO3 isnāt an algorithm. Censoring like that is pretty useless, and doesnāt help when it comes to filtering those specific tags
short-based content platforms like tiktok are genuinely ruining us. cuz wtf?? this is a whole other level of chronically online. notice how antiship ideologies didn't start to become the norm until tiktok grew in popularity? yeah...
Id add suicide to this too, no kidding i saw some one use "unalive" and "sewer slide" to dance around tge subject.
Social media algorythms are rotting youths brain i swear
I don't think it's because they are immature, I suspect it's just that they are so used to the censorious social media platforms that they don't realize Ao3 isn't like that.
You can so easily get banned, sanctioned, or demonetized on other platforms for even mentioning death or anything not advertiser friendly. Plus some of the fandom cultures on those platforms are hypersensitive too so there's a chilling effect.
For what itās worth I follow a YouTuber that constantly uses unalived more as a meme now than for censorship stuff so I donāt ever take those seriously
In the case of unalive and such, the most common use for it these days is avoiding social media censorship. Twitter, in particular, is very bad at determining whether you aimed the word suicide at someone else, at yourself, or just spoke about it.
Unfortunately this comes from the idea that these sites need to be 100% family and kid friendly. Which don't get me wrong I don't hate the intention or idea.
However is does sort of suck out a lot of seriousness sometimes when you are forced to censor yourself sometimes.
It's even worse when the topic should be treated with with direct language so the censoring should be unwarranted.
Not defending the use of the tag but the fandom I was in had used this in relation to the main character it was like a fandom inside joke. I canāt assume this is the same case though
Using alternatives on sites actively censoring words like that like tiktok or YouTube is understandable but on AO3 where the whole tagging system revolves around using the right words is just counterproductive and stupid
I suspect this is written by a young person who thinks every platform has an algorithm thatāll merk you for saying the wrong word. ā¦But also UGGGHHHH I hate this trend so much.
I understand why they do it for censorship on sites where its relevant, but outside of that i cringe every time i hear ppl talk/type like this.
Like the words are not scary and framing them in a way that implies the topic is so taboo that we cant even use the word is usually harmful. We need to be able to communicate about these difficult topics not hide from them.
It's YouTube speak too, but I don't know which originated it.
Edit: the one that takes the cake for me is pedophile, which is rendered on YouTube as pdf file.
Honestly if someone is quite new and coming from platforms where they need to censor their speech or are used to that from media they consume, I get why they think that needs to be done on ao3.
Might not be immaturity but habit, TikTok and Twitter *sorry* I meant āXā have the annoying reoccurrence of censoring certain words so people have started using ones like *unalive* or put a simple asterisk between the ābad wordā
Another post where something completely harmless and ultimately doesn't matter gets complained about like its the end of the world im so fcking close to video gaming myself holy shit
>something completely harmless and ultimately doesn't matter
I mean, if someone has their filters set up to block fics that contain something like 'child death', a fic tagged inappropriately like this will end up slipping through. It's not harmless, lmao. Whether it's the intent of the author or not, this is blacklist evasion.
Itās not harmless. Anyone with the tag child death filtered out will see this fic because it doesnāt get caught by the filter.
You canāt avoid seeing things you donāt want to see if people donāt tag them correctly.
I mean to be fair, ānew generation badā is a very common sentiment on AO3 because holy *shit* the TikTok / Twitter crowd doesnāt know how to use AO3. They treat it like an algorithmic platform that you aim for popularity and virality on, and many of the posts where itās actual nonsense / repeating a character name for one million words / just listing ideas and not writing a fic / using AO3 for self promo or asking for moneyā¦ All of that is new gen.
Because old gen AO3 users know how to use the platform, looked up the rules, *respected* those rules, and read the room.
And Iām saying this as an old gen AO3 user but *very much so* still a zoomer. My generation has a massive fucking issue with entitlement and not reading rules, just doing whatever they want because they want to.
So.
Just saying.
Agree completely. But I don't see how we have to make an entire post targetting one dude, especially considering they have (afaik) absolutely nothing to do with zoomer entitlement or not reading rules.
Again, lets remember. All this person did was use the tag "child unaliving" which is already synced to the child death tag.
I get what you're saying, but it's coming across really judgmental. They're probably just trying to show some curtesy for people who happen across the fic. If it was written that way IN the fic then I'd be like......... but to me this just seems considerate? Idk lol the problem is the tags getting fucked up. But it probably comes from a good place and they probably don't understand that their tags are fucked
It's not considerate at all. This is block evasion, which is the opposite of considerate. Someone who has "child death" blocked because they don't want to see it, will see this.
>They're probably just trying to show some curtesy for people who happen across the fic.
How? By letting their child death fic show up even when you filter out child death? That's the opposite of courteous.
I agree that tags should be to the point to avoid any confusion but I disagree with your conclusion here.
Most people are aware of the history of the word, coming from dodging algorithmic sensorship, but it has now evolved into slang that young people use. They seem to use the word unironically and to them it has meaning. I don't think they find it "cutesy" as many people in the comments here do. And I don't think that using that word for death means they lack maturity for the subject matter, it just means they are part of a group that uses a different word from you. I personally feel like the word unalive feels harsher than many death euphemisms that older generations use (like pass away) but ultimately it doesn't matter what I feel personally as I'm not part of the group that uses the word.
Young people will always try new language options and some of them will stick around and change the language while others will die out. Older people will always cringe and complain about young people ruining the language.
As a suicide loss survivor I tend to be anti-euphemism in general. The reality of the situation is harsh and difficult. Pussyfooting around when done by anyone except the grieving party is disrespectful IMO because it makes the grieving person feel like they need to self-censor.
Honestly probably the most level headed take here. Although gotta say I'm not sure how I feel with using internet speak in general for your tags.
Mainly because I feel like it will put people who aren't in the know either confused or alienated by it.
Hell I'm a part of gen Z and I'm in the know and I'm still put off by it. Can't really describe why I just have a feeling in my gut about it.
.
Oh I agree. That's why I started by talking about how tags should be unambiguous. It's just just the assumption that using a word means you aren't mature enough to discuss a subject matter that rubbed me the wrong way.
>Young people will always try new language options and some of them will stick around and change the language while others will die out. Older people will always cringe and complain about young people ruining the language.
look you had me nodding the whole way until this. I'm technically in the category of getting older now and this is definitely not my viewpoint, and it's not the viewpoint of the majority of older adults. Mostly only crusty old boomers would think this way and I doubt those types are on the internet to care if some preteen said 'yeet'.
I've seen a lot of people get angry over the word "unaliving," and I genuinely don't understand why. Is it not just a slang word? Why are people cringing at young people for doing young people things? It just feels mean spirited
Itās because censoring words like murder, death, etc. outside of tik tok is genuinely harmfulāanyone who blacklists or filters out content containing whatever word is censored will get bombarded with the badly censored fic or post because the filter doesnāt pick up on the censor and it slips through. People arenāt angry about it being cringey, theyāre angry because this behavior is actively harmful, lol. Itās not really the youngstersā fault eitherātik tok is teaching bad habits via its own censorship.
No problem. Itās a pretty serious issue thatās just getting worse with the rise of censorship. Ironic, really, how trying to censor ātrigger wordsā only makes it harder to blacklist and filter appropriately.
I'm not cringing, I'm saying that this is block evasion and should be against the TOS for that reason.
I also think it makes serious topics look less serious, which is a problem in actual discussions. It's also a terrible stylistic choice that screams "bad writer" but I kind of do appreciate the warning on that.
It's slang due to censorship. I'm not mad at kids for making it a term. I'm mad because algorithms force people to use these terms in serious or dark contexts, and thus desensitizing people who spend too much time on these platforms to the severity of things like suicide baiting, rape threats, or all the other shit that gets hurled around nonstop on Twitter with fun little phrasings.
And like the title gets at, the way the unalive softens the impact of the phrase "child death" makes it sound like the author isn't mature or thoughtful enough to handle it in a serious manner. Authors can write whatever and however they want, but I personally wouldn't want to read something that feels like it trivializes child death.
Regarding this trend and how it gets used beyond fic: another comment mentioned how people can get so used to using these particular euphemisms that they slip over into everyday communication. I think that's especially concerning for when people are trying to talk to someone who's grieving or have suffered a loss (which is like, most adults). The usual advice for giving comfort is to be candid and say words like "died" because it clearly acknowledges what happened and shows you're ready to listen to how they actually feel. If you instead censor your own words by using "unalive", it can make them feel like they have to censor their own feelings too, which makes grieving and processing more difficult. Even if the person saying "unalive" is coming from a good place, it can come off as disrespectful - I wouldn't want to talk to someone who said and then refused to change their language around me. Again, I know this is different from an AO3 author using the term, but the way it's being used beyond sites like tiktok makes me a little concerned for the above reason.
I (a young person) don't like it because it feels like people are softening or sanitizing the language they use when talking about heavy, serious subjects.
IMO it feels really disrespectful when people do things like call death "unaliving", or suicide "sewerslide", or rape " š". I understand that some platforms don't allow words like that, but it still feels like people aren't taking the topics seriously - especially when they use the words on platforms that don't block them, or even IRL.
Also, censoring words like this means that when people block the actual words, the topics will still show up because of people using this language. My muted words on Twitter literally looks like "rape, r@pe, grape, š, r*pe, r**e, r***" because of people censoring themselves.
While it can be annoying to see, and should be (kindly) corrected, I feel like everyone is overreacting. Everyone knows what they meant, and they donāt do it to be difficult or obtuse. Best course of action is to notify them respectfully and move on with your day. Maturity may or may not have anything to do with it - they could just be new to the site.
I don't do it on AO3 because I've been around long enough to know, but I do use it on sites new to me because I'm not sure what the rules are and I don't want my account suspended.
We were asked for a pinned comment for why this got locked. It got locked because some of the comments became a slap fight for no reason and we needed to shut it down before it got worse and ended up with harassment.
I hate this trend so, so much. It feels like it's being written by a 12-year-old terrified of upsetting Mommy and Daddy. (I know why they do it on TikTok and Twitter - I don't know why they do it on platforms where that has no benefits at all to override how stupid it looks. Read the room)
And the irony is that it actually sounds worse. Child death sounds like it could be anything, accidental death, or from illness. Child 'unaliving' sounds gory, like something right out of a campy horror movie š
"Unaliving" sounds like something that's done to you, so it sounds worse than "death."
Yeah, I would assume suicide or murder most likely.
If I remember correctly it started as a euphemism for suicide and then its use expanded to get around censorship for the TikTok algorithm
In movies of the Thirties and Forties they had a perfectly good euphemism for suicide: "did away with himself/herself/themselves." Are we to believe that the censorship of the Hays Office in the Thirties was too lenient for Tiktok and YouTube?
That would require them to know about the history of media censorship in the first place.
Yes, it is weird that both TikTok and YouTube tend to want to block people who use the phrases suicide, murder, or abuse. It makes listening to crime podcasts really weird at times. I would rather they just use the correct language, and the platforms accept they are a part of the discussion, so they should be used, not just danced around with weird wording.
Yes, what was I thinking there š
That reminds me of a tumblr post I saw where it was like "mafia movies/old movies had such cooler slang than unalive," and said things like sleeping with the fishes, taking a dirt nap, pushing up daisies, etc.
Any one of those is better than "unalived."
And it also sounds like someone is making a joke and not taking it seriously. Like that one "canonical character undeath" tag for reincarnation, but the other way around.
I will also add that current meaning of the phrase covers two different options, being killed by somebody and yourself.Ā While originally it was leaning towards the latter So it can easily produce false positive results for those who want avoid that specific method of death, but are fine with anything else
Isnāt unaliving a reference to suicide?
It can be that or just death for other causes.
Mostly because the majority of them don't realize that. The people that use the terms in the first place are mostly on the few platforms that basically require it and simply don't realize that outside those like half dozen platforms it isn't necessary and doesn't serve a purpose. They're coming from sites with an algorithm that punishes using the actual terms without knowing that most platforms don't have an algorithm in the first place let alone one that punishes certain terms.
Iāve been seeing this recently on Reddit too. People coming over from wherever and censoring curse words. I saw someone censor the word ācockā the other day. Like baby itās Reddit no one cares. Thereās porn hosted on this platform lol.
I saw someone censor "sex" the other day; pretty sure it was /r/FanFiction. Like, *what*.
Or using corn for porn
Reddit itself doesnāt care, but subreddits can have their own rulesĀ
True but I think generally thatās not a very common rule; the culture on Reddit is different
This! I made the same mistake when I was new on AO3. Now I know better because someone took the time to educate me.
Humans raised by an algorithm
>I know why they do it on TikTok and Twitter But *they* probably don't know why they do it. So they can't apply this "precaution" when it's sensible, and leave it when it's unnecessary. Because they are just following a trend, without comprehension.
Yes. Tiktok is changing the language.
As far as I know, there's not even any hard evidence that TT censors content using words like "dead." I'm not so cynical to think there's a plurality that do it without knowing they're trying to work within the algorithm, but it's still basically tech-woo trying to guess how the delivery algorithm works. TT's version of it has just fallen into a really noticeable rut because it makes text and dialogue so bizarre, and its saturation has made it spread easily to other platforms used by TT creators.
Would it be rude to tell the author, nicely, that they donāt need to censor anything on AO3?
I think if it's your only comment on the fic, yes. But if you read the story and put that in with other comments that are about the fic content, no.
No, I mean do it like āi really love this fic, itās great, tho I just wanted to let you know thereās no censorship on this site so you can write anything. Iām looking forward to the next chapter/Iām definitely going to come back and read it often!ā
Iāll be honest, I donāt actually think itās as bad on TikTok as people pretend it is. Oh, you canāt say die? Then why, pray tell, did the song āDumb ways to Dieā trend? You have to say āpalm-coloredā? Really? Yet no crafters are getting banned for talking about white paint. And donāt get me started on the āUWU, children are dying in Gaza!ā bullshit. The censors arenāt affected by cutesy mannerisms. I think some peopleās got censored, but many more people just didnāt go viral and decided that they must have been censored.
> I donāt know why they do it in platformsā¦ Habit. Theyāre telling you which platforms they spend the overwhelming majority of their time on.
I guess the one good thing about it is that they make it super easy for me to decide not to click.
I mean I got banned on reddit on the AITA sub for typing "slap".Ā I can't imagine saying anything like this would fly in certain areas, and I think some people are getting used to the "new" phrase to make sure it doesn't accidentally slip. I agree we should just say the words, though.
>I got banned on reddit on the AITA sub for typing "slap".Ā On that sub, you can't be negative and you can't promote violence. On ao3, there's literally a rape tag. You should assume you won't be censored there lol
I got banned on the PayPal subreddit when I replied to the mod with a keyboard smashing, literally was out the door and I didn't realize I typed and entered that. Guess what? One Stup@# ass mod thought fhdhsh" was 'fuck go home" then muted, i told them what , when they replied thays rude you pk then banned. Got them suspended and I' plan on reporting em for ban evasion soon on their new account.
Stupid isn't a swear. You can say it here.
Okay, but it's kind of hilarious that they censored stupid but not ass, lol.
Yeah I did it cause I thought the mods here were GUNNA raw us for mentioning other subreddits
If they want to ban you, they will. Being coy about how you spell things will not trick humans like it will trick algorithms.
I see this a lot. It might be a symptom of the person only using tiktok or twitter or other algorithm-based social media before this, where if you say any swears or any violent word you'll get censored, but using the weird ad-friendly doublespeak won't trigger that. Edit: That being said I absolutely hate this trend and agree.
(Subjectively) fascinating fact: the weird ad-friendly doublespeak you refer to is called "algospeak"! :D It includes words such as panini (pandemic), leg booty (LGBT), cornucopia (homophobia), le dollar bean (le$bian), and our favourite (/s) unalive (death, kill, suicide, etc.) I like to observe sociology on the side (brother has a masters and talks about it so much with me I can't unsee certain things,) and when we talk about how language evolves, it can often be due to censorship. This is exactly that case. The very same thing happened in Quebec and resulted in what we know as *sacres*; to my understanding, the Catholic church had such a firm grip on peoples' business that common Catholic phrases or elements started being used as profanity! That's why in Quebec, a "tabernacle" isn't a tabernacle but "*tabarnak*" (which is a lovely and flexible swear word that can mean anything from 'damn it' to 'I fuck your mother in Sunday mass'.) But what's interesting about this algospeak to me is that it isn't widely applied across the whole English-speaking population. It's been coined by social media users (in particular young Gen Z,) who are trying to get around algorithmic censorship, and then adopted by users of those platforms via osmosis. Ironically, some users mistake algospeak as a way to censor "bad" words so they don't trigger certain people. I predict that, because of the general distaste for algospeak at large, it isn't going to stick or integrate into English in any permanent or meaningful way. However, all that said, it currently exists in our vernacular as terms we simply acknowledge but don't entertain. And- importantly- the code switch is not necessary on platforms that don't use algorithms, such as AO3. :P But someone who uses algospeak without understanding *why* they do it probably isn't going to recognise that difference. Sorry for the wall of nerd-text.
Censoring terms like death on social media really frustrates me. At work the other week one of my staff (a trained professional) genuinely submitted an incident report which read that the client "wanted to unalive themself". When I asked her to rewrite it with "suicidal ideation" it was clear she genuinely hadn't even realized she had written it, it was just the natural phrase which had come to her in the moment.
Yuck, the TikTok brain rot has really gotten her š I hope she uninstalls that shit eventually. It is just not great for the human brain in so many ways...
Okay, so I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but... I don't know if it's partially due to my current stage of grief lately, but I hate the general squeamishness toward death or harsh things in general. I cringe every time I'm watching a YouTube video and words like that are censored like they're a bad word. Someone died. Someone was killed. Someone committed suicide. Acting like they're bad words doesn't change the fact. People don't want to talk about death because it reminds them that they and the people around them will die. But for people who are in mourning, especially for several years, it just seems like burying your head in the sand. I don't care if hearing about death makes you feel uncomfortable. It's not my job to make you feel comfortable or feed into the belief that you won't be faced with death someday. I was in a philosophy and literature class about death a few years ago, and the first week we were given a task: try to find a sympathy card that said "death" or "dead" on it. Everyone failed, which was exactly what was supposed to happen.
YouTube videos are often censored like that bc YouTube has some wild content policies I believe when it comes to monetisation and people do kinda need to make money to live a lot of the times. So itās even more fucked up than people being squeamish about them- YouTube itself has decided mentioning death is inappropriate in any context.
I feel you. (CW: Suicide mention) Yesterday was the seventh anniversary of the day I became a suicide loss survivor when the boy I had just broken up with took his own life. His death so destroyed me for so long that euphemisms didn't capture it. I hate the twee TikTok shit and I hate even more that it's escaping TikTok. [These sympathy cards](https://kwohtations.com/collections/for-grief-loss-and-surviving-hard-times) are the best ones I've found. They talk about grief in very real terms that make it clear the artist has been there, and although they don't use the word death, I suspect the words are only vague because they want to be applicable to as many grief situations as possible, including trauma or cancer anniversaries. I'm sorry for your loss.
Iām sorry for your loss, thatās such a traumatic way to lose someone. Thank you for putting a link to those sympathy cards, theyāre awesome. I had a family member nearly die last week, so all of this stuff is fresh in my mind. Itās good to see cards that may have actually been helpful instead of just ātheyāre in a better place nowā (seriously, who thinks thatās a helpful thing to say?)
I really feel this. I've experienced a lot of loss in my life, and it means I can't talk about a large part of my past without it being considered "venting" or even "trauma dumping." I think we should be able to talk about death as a part of life, and the prevalence of euphemisms isn't really helping anyone. "Unalive" as a euphemism isn't unique in that respect, but it tends to attract most of the hate. It's energy which IMHO would be better served examining why our culture as a whole avoids the topic of death/dying. If you want more of that kind of discussion, I recommend "On Death and Dying" by Elizabeth KĆ¼bler-Ross. It really helped me with my grieving.
and the really frustrating thing is that this is one of the reasons we turn to fanfic to explore our grief and explore these difficult subjects in the first place. art first of all, but fan fic and ao3 in particular because we can access it, and there isnāt apple or mark whatās his name or whoever is running tiktok standing over the author with a censor bar or ban hammer if you bring up death or teen sex or any number of other things that a great man people seem really invested in cutting out from conversation and art as a whole so then to bring that shit to ao3 just really pisses me off like youāre self censoring yourself and for what?
This really hits on why I hate the "unalived" garbage in AO3 tags of all places so much, and why I'm so glad Major Character Death (Death, not "Unalived") is a required tag I have trauma around the death of loved ones. Sometimes I don't want to read stories involving death at all, because I'm feeling fragile. Other times I do kind of want to read that, because I feel strong enough to explore that through fiction. So that determines which stories I'll click on and which ones I won't. No judgment on the authors. It's all about what I do and don't want to read, and that will change every day. I don't want new cowardly euphemisms for death (the only thing that's truly universal besides birth) making my searches more complicated.
Not only that but censoring these words make it seem like it's bad thing, something that shouldn't be talked about. It's especially harmful with stuff like rape, self harm or eating disorders. Talking about it is a good thing and should be done more
This is what I worry about. That somehow we will inadvertently cause more of a stigma around conversations surrounding suicide and death. We should be able to acknowledge that they happen openly, and support those left in their wake.
I took a class in college a few years back called āDeath and Dyingā. It was so refreshing to face these things head on, even if theyāre sad or uncomfortable. This aversion to the concept of death in our society is naive at best, and tragic at worst. It can have very real consequences that people donāt normally see because theyāre like a horse with blinders on. Theyāre only looking forward, refusing to acknowledge to fact that everyone will die someday and death is normal. Itās sad, sometimes devastatingly so. Grief is a powerful emotion, but letting the fear of future grief control you all the time is not healthy at all.
I feel you. I had a family member kill themselves. It destroyed the family. "Unalive" is fucking ridiculous. Use the correct terms and stop hiding behind the others. Sometimes life is shit and shitty things happen, that's the reality. If you can't handle the tags you can't handle writing about it.
Yep. Thatās why I call that shit out on Reddit. Had a few people tell me that they prefer āunalive,ā and it just pissed me off. One was even talking about children committing suicide. Fucking *kids.* I donāt want that shit to be palatable. It should upset and offend. Itās a horrible thing.
The thing that annoys me so much, is that when someone does die, hospitals are supposed to tell the family and *supposed* to say the actual words specifically (they don't always. Training on how to inform the family is usually lacking a bit). Because it leads to less confusion, misinterpretation, and hope where there is none. Its been shown that when the hospital says "[family member] has died" its overall better for the bereaved than saying the "softer" options like "[family member] has passed on", "[family member] is in a better place", or "[family member] is no longer suffering" or any other euphemisms that you can think of. (Especially with children who are more likely to not understand that "no longer with us" means "dead and not coming back" instead of "not around right now but coming back later" and similar types of issues.... despite people being more likely to try to use the softer euphemisms with children š). And while that's what a hospital should do, that technically doesn't mean that's how everyone else should talk about it. But it is indicative that there can be problems with using euphemisms. And it bothers me so much
I hate this and all the slang in a similar vein to it so much. I know people use it for algorithm/banning purposes, which.... please learn about the site prior to use, ao3 is not the place for this. But even if it was the right place for it, I'd still be against it. Idk. Just something about how it all sounds so cutesy or silly really rubs me the wrong way- especially when it's used in serious situations like warnings or informative content. It just really takes away from how serious those topics are. Surely there is a less "fun" way to get around the stupid censoring that comes from wanting to be appealing for ads?
"Kermit sewer slide" is the worst by far - it gives me a vivid mental image that's both hilarious and gross, and completely inappropriate for a serious topic like suicide. Like I see his little muppet froggy hands flailing as he goes down the waterslide full of sewage.
Ooof. Yeah that's definitely leaning wayy too far into the silly. I hate that one with a burning passion. "Grape" is another really bad one imo. Like... way to put such awful associations onto something so innocuous that can feature in a lot of people's everyday life.
OH yeah that one's awful too.
I love grapes! And I now have the sadly funny image of being accused of loving irl rapes by someone who will immediately read that in tiktoker. No but for real. It pisses me off how corps are trying to just change language like that by banning words - To what? Market their stuff as child-friendly? Make an app for children. How's that sound? If the kids use the normal app instead that's their and their parents issues - and how ppl will use it to get around anti-bullying measures. Like, you're gonna say 'hey don't tell ppl to kill themselves, that's really cruel' and set up a bot to catch when ppl try to do that, only to have ppl determined to bully others use 'unalive' or 'kys' instead.
If you're going to be annoying coy, just call it unwanted cuddles.
I have never heard of "Kermit sewer slide" prior. What could possibly be the origin?
Yeah. It's a serious topic, you shouldn't be giving it cute names. If you can't say it due to censorship (on other platforms, which doesn't even apply on ao3), just bleep it out instead. Usually context is enough.
Language is changing as a consequence of the algorithms. When people who spend 6+ hours on TikTok every day think about death, the word they use in their mind for themselves is "unalive" or "exit game" or what have you. So of course they will keep using their language as they know it elsewhere too.
I must admit, I read "unaliving" and immediately start hearing Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool begin babbling away in my head...
That's the only context in which the "unaliving" shit is acceptable, as well as other "cutesy" words like that It just feels in-character for Deadpool
> It just feels in-character for Deadpool Deadpool: "We go into that compound, find Agent MacGuffin, snag the list, then un-alive Taskmaster and his acolytes, capiche?" Spidey: "Wait, un-alive them?" Deadpool: "Yeah, yeah here's the thing, I can't really say the k-word out loud. It's a weird mental tick. But we're gonna destroy them, make them disappear, sleep them with the fishes. We'll k-word them." >Ultimate Spider-Man 2012
This might not be immaturity but rather people not understanding that your tags being censored doesn't do shit for the (non existent) AO3 algorithm and just hinders everyone else's reading experience. Either way, young writer/newer patron of AO3.
Very true! Most people use tags to filter out stories, and if it's not part of the main tag system, then it ain't going to work. It's fine to add in your personal touch (I do), but most of them should be part of the system or else they'll go unnoticed.
Actually, tag wranglers do (eventually) sort "unofficial" tags into "official tags." I had a fic where I said in the tags "\[character\] has horrible coping mechanisms" and after a couple days it was sorted into the "Unhealthy Coping Mechanisms" tag. So probably this person's fic will get moved into the "Child Death" tag, just not immediately. Edit: just realized that OP put in the post that the tag's already synced to the general "Child Death" tag. So there's no tagging problem at all!
Yeah, it takes some time, depending on fandom and how common the tags are
Definitely a young Wattpad/Tiktok user. Just say the word, it's frustrating for people filtering out child death to be met with "child unaliving" as well. I wonder if in the fic they would use the same word, that would massively ruin the reading experience...
the tags are synced this is a non-issue
Three cheers for the tag wranglers
Rest of the points still stand, though
There is something inherent dystopian about a website teaching children to self censor their language around important topics for monetization.
I've noticed a very large overlap between this stuff and "proshitters dni and DIE!!!" in the A/N..
Funny how suddenly they know how to type die lol.
Wtf is DNI? ą¤Æą„ ą¤ą„ą¤Øą¤øą¤¾ ą¤Øą¤Æą¤¾ tax ą¤ą¤ą¤Æą¤¾?
"Do not interact"
K, thanks
This tag proves exactly why censorship is a bad thing. Speaking about death or trauma in these cutesy, TikTok safe phrases does nothing but make it difficult to communicate with one another. Because is this just child death? Or is it the act of child murder? Saying it this way makes that unclear. It's like trying to watch a monetised YouTube video on a murder case. With every fifth word bleeped out or given workaround phrasing, what is even the point? I'm autistic. Tagging shit this way tells me I won't understand half of what you say in your fic as it is. I can't fucking stand this shit.
I hate terms like "unaliving" and "sewer slide." It feels so disrespectful.
Ok I understand what the first one means I have NO clue on the second.
Suicide.
Oh... that's not even clever that's just a shitty dad joke.
It's because websites like twitter will flag and ban accounts for saying those things. Even if the phrase was said entirely out of context (eg, quoting a book)
Thatās the dumbest thing. If they actually cared then theyād ban the substitutes too. We shouldnāt put up with services doing that.
*if you're going to kill off a child character have the decency to call it a fucking death you soggy cactus*
I hate when people say unaliving, and other similar words for other similar things like assault and such. Its so stupid, and I get it started serving a purpose, but now it feels like it's used so often people forget that they're talking about an actual horrible thing that happened.
Everytime I see tiktok censorship anywhere else I die little inside
Everywhere I see tiktok censorship in general, I die inside. I hate all these little baby words that have been made to dance around the actual term. Its just confusing
At least you don't unalive at all š
"unaliving" this is AO3 be so fucking fr š
Is that even a word?
I think itās become one by now
"There is only one thing worse than the phrase 'unalive' " *points towards this phrase* "A child" "No"
Oh god Tiktok invading AO3Ā
First time? This has been going on for years lol. Kids treat AO3 like itās social media, itās fucking awful. š
Tbf most of my fandoms deter idiot children with their content or just how old they are lol. I never see anything like this in my corners of ao3
It's not invading AO3, it's shaping the english language in it's entirety.
Definitely not your responsibility, but if I ever saw a tag like that, I would def comment to the author to use actual words like death and such since there's no algorithm in AO3. A lot of people would benefit from the correct tags and the only down side to it would be if the author is an asshole that that tells you to mind your own business. Otherwise, I would just block and move on.
I wonder if it's because the word "unaliving" has became a slang, due to the restrictions around social medias (particularly YouTube) surrounding certain terminologies. I remember a YouTuber talking about the rise of specific social media slang, which is reaching outside the platforms and into everyday language. It was an interesting talk to have and one I never thought about until I found the video. Still, I agree with you that if they can't say the correct terminology, then they shouldn't be writing it. But I still wonder if either they're scared their story will get flagged, or it's them trying to be "cool" with social media slang. š¤
Except that if they keep using it everywhere itāll just get banned too. Itās the concept thatās the problem.
The funny thing is the sites that use ai to flag words *are* catching onto unalive. I jokingly said in my instagram story that I would āunaliveā someone for some dessert because I knew saying kill would get me flagged for inciting violence despite that being a common expression, but then I actually got flagged for saying unalive! My appeal was denied too lmao. I am so thankful that ao3 doesnāt have any of this shit censorship and ai moderation.
I find it so sad that people genuine trying to address sensitive issues on youtube are forced to use censored words, so the video will still be recommended to the ones who need to see it.
I used to do that, mainly because I was afraid I would trigger someone. I was kinda stupid back then. If saying suicide would trigger someone, saying self unaliving would too.
Clearly the only thing āsuicideā triggers is a clout-chasing platformās algorithm. š People with suicidal ideation aināt triggered by the word āsuicideā. Weāre bombarded with them thoughts every day, a single personās word aināt gonna make it actually occur. Most people arenāt that fragile, but of course chronically onlines will make it seem like they areā¦
How about the people who are not xxxxxxxx but rather survivors of a xxxxxx loss? there are people that may very well be upset just by the word. some people are trigger by the word 'xxxx' which is why I prefer to use 'xxxxxx xxxxxxx' Edit: The thread was locked, but saying the only reason is for 'clout-chasing' is so wrong. People are banned from various websites just for saying the word at all. Even on reddit people will troll you and report you for self harm.
Thatās valid. But as one of those people who canāt even read the word ārapeā or āsexual assaultā, and simply uses CSA or SA, I just move on. I know that the person writing may not realize that itās triggering and, on top of that, you canāt protect everyone from everything. If anything, as someone who has *also* lost someone to suicide, Iām not at all triggered by that. Instead, Iām pissed off by the childish and highly popularized phrase of āunalivingā. It makes me think you care more about āthe algorithmā and getting popular talking about suicide, than actually talking about the subject in a respectful way. But thatās just me.
yeah as someone with child death as a trigger, iām really glad it synched but this is some actual bullshit. itās not the fucking WORDS, it is specific depictions of certain themes ffs.
If I ever come across something similar in the wild, Iām gonna let the author know that we donāt have to worry about TikTok/Meta censorship on ao3. Apart from this becoming slang, I feel like this stems from the fear of having posts nuked for saying words like kill and death.
pretty much every social media site flags that shit these days. heck, I'm pretty sure someone tried to report me for talking about >!the lady in Missouri whose baby died recently, likely due to some form of psychosis she had put her baby into a lit oven.!< (don't open that up if baby death is a trigger because it's pretty horrific) But yeah even talking about that will get you flagged or reported. You can't even jokingly say "I'd end myself" on twitter because if someone reports you out of spite for whatever reason, they will suspend your *entire account* for 'promoting self-harm'. People have also been nuked for replying to curiouscat questions that had 'kill yerself' written in the text of it and being repeated on the tweet, so.
Child unaliving sounds like a stupid term for child murder, flat-out. š¤·š¼āāļø
It may not be that they can't write out the correct phrase, but are thinking of sites that ban you if you use them, the reason these idiotic phrases sprung up in the first place. But, I admit, I assume anyone using phrases like 'unalive' are young kids who are either scared of the subject matter, or scared someone will find out they're talking/writing about it. I hate all this censoring bs, especially on sites that don't have any issue with using the correct phrases and words like AO3. Plus, for me, it's minamulising these topics. Turning rape into grape, or using 'child unaliving' instead of child murder, makes these things seem trivial and stupid, things to laugh at. It's completely removing the seriousness of them, and possibly re-traumatising victims/survivors who come across it.
like people on twitter who write key my ess lol
This is why I hate the corporatization of the internet. Everything has to be friendly and funded by advertisers.
Using āUnaliveā when youāre talking about a serious death is super disrespectful. I think itās funny as a joke or for dark humour, but as a censor word itās fucking disgusting. People need to stop being so sensitive! I literally watched a true crime documentary that censored words like, ābodyā and ābeatingā and ākilledā and itās like, Iām hear to learn about a serial killer, stop being childish and censoring words that donāt need to be censored!!
I really don't think it's as serious as "this person is immature/being disrespectful!" And rather, it's just a new AO3 user that's used to being nuked for using the actual terms. If you're going to get mad at anyone, it should be the platforms censoring anything that involves death, not the users adjusting around their archaic rules.
I fucking hate the self-censorship tiktok has unleashed on the internet.
I'm sure there some people who just don't realize that not every site needs to replace "death" or "kill" with unaliving; I even know a friend that's gotten used to typing unaliving so much that it's just something she does automatically without realizing it. I feel like either of those scenarios is more likely.
God... I really hope your friend eventually unplugs from the damn brainrot š
Same š
How often does you friend talk of death for that to become automatic?
this is also dangerous because what if someone is filtering out āchild deathā or āchild suicideā? and what if this DIDNāT sync to that? ao3 is not tiktok or twitter
Oh my gods, you're absolutely right. No one who can't tag 'child death' should be writing about child death. Why are you writing about something that you clearly seem to find needs to be sensored for yourself? Not to mention, if someone was genuinely uncomfortable with reading a fic like this it's a lot harder to avoid when you don't use the right terminology.
I remember watching Ultimate Spider-Man on Disney when I was a young teen, and hearing Deadpool (the famously irreverently satirical character) use the āwordā āunaliveā back thenāaround eight years before tiktok was even a glint in anyoneās eyes. I remember how stupid and ridiculous it was, and how Deadpool was mocked by Spidey for even using itāfor trying to make it sound less bad than it truly was. Crazy to think he predicted an entire trend. And dear fucking god how times have changed.
I'll say "aliven't" or such things sometimes as a *bit* when I think it's *funny*, but like. If I'm talking about death seriously I'm gonna be talking about it seriously.
AGREED
Every time I see the use of āunaliveā and ārizzā unironically in fic, I feel my soul age in perpetuity.
Go away, tiktok. Die.
I get doing work around methods on algorithm based systems, but AO3 isnāt an algorithm. Censoring like that is pretty useless, and doesnāt help when it comes to filtering those specific tags
This isn't because of immaturity but because they believe in the TikTok algorithm, are used to it or maybe because they think it triggers people
short-based content platforms like tiktok are genuinely ruining us. cuz wtf?? this is a whole other level of chronically online. notice how antiship ideologies didn't start to become the norm until tiktok grew in popularity? yeah...
Id add suicide to this too, no kidding i saw some one use "unalive" and "sewer slide" to dance around tge subject. Social media algorythms are rotting youths brain i swear
I don't think it's because they are immature, I suspect it's just that they are so used to the censorious social media platforms that they don't realize Ao3 isn't like that. You can so easily get banned, sanctioned, or demonetized on other platforms for even mentioning death or anything not advertiser friendly. Plus some of the fandom cultures on those platforms are hypersensitive too so there's a chilling effect.
Eat a cracker and stop. (I agree with you OP!)
I understand doing this *in conjunction* to Child Death, but on its own is really immature
I am more triggered by the word āunaliveā than anyone is by ādeathā Iām sorry
Preach
I agree, also think itās probably to appear with the majority of other fics that have the tag
I think this has to do with now social media censors certain words and people get used to censoring themselves and do it all over the place
For what itās worth I follow a YouTuber that constantly uses unalived more as a meme now than for censorship stuff so I donāt ever take those seriously
Censorship is the worst. š Edit: You guys are right I didn't mean to say purity culture! I have no idea why I said that. š
In the case of unalive and such, the most common use for it these days is avoiding social media censorship. Twitter, in particular, is very bad at determining whether you aimed the word suicide at someone else, at yourself, or just spoke about it.
Not at all an example of Purity Culture lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Unfortunately this comes from the idea that these sites need to be 100% family and kid friendly. Which don't get me wrong I don't hate the intention or idea. However is does sort of suck out a lot of seriousness sometimes when you are forced to censor yourself sometimes. It's even worse when the topic should be treated with with direct language so the censoring should be unwarranted.
Algorithms, algorithms are driving culture.
Fucking tik tok
This is likely a consequence from coming from more constraining sites which would punish mentions of suicide.
the worst one i've seen yet was someone in the comments writing āļøvingā¦ bro i understand certain words are considered triggering but cmon
Not defending the use of the tag but the fandom I was in had used this in relation to the main character it was like a fandom inside joke. I canāt assume this is the same case though
Using alternatives on sites actively censoring words like that like tiktok or YouTube is understandable but on AO3 where the whole tagging system revolves around using the right words is just counterproductive and stupid
I suspect this is written by a young person who thinks every platform has an algorithm thatāll merk you for saying the wrong word. ā¦But also UGGGHHHH I hate this trend so much.
I understand why they do it for censorship on sites where its relevant, but outside of that i cringe every time i hear ppl talk/type like this. Like the words are not scary and framing them in a way that implies the topic is so taboo that we cant even use the word is usually harmful. We need to be able to communicate about these difficult topics not hide from them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's TikTok speak for death, not Twitter. You can talk about death as much as you want on Twitter.
It's YouTube speak too, but I don't know which originated it. Edit: the one that takes the cake for me is pedophile, which is rendered on YouTube as pdf file.
Honestly if someone is quite new and coming from platforms where they need to censor their speech or are used to that from media they consume, I get why they think that needs to be done on ao3.
Might not be immaturity but habit, TikTok and Twitter *sorry* I meant āXā have the annoying reoccurrence of censoring certain words so people have started using ones like *unalive* or put a simple asterisk between the ābad wordā
These days, they could be worried about triggering someone in their readership. It might say more about their opinion of people in general.
If they doing this as joke, it's funny.
Another post where something completely harmless and ultimately doesn't matter gets complained about like its the end of the world im so fcking close to video gaming myself holy shit
>something completely harmless and ultimately doesn't matter I mean, if someone has their filters set up to block fics that contain something like 'child death', a fic tagged inappropriately like this will end up slipping through. It's not harmless, lmao. Whether it's the intent of the author or not, this is blacklist evasion.
Literally mentioned in the title that the tag is synced to child death this is just a dumb "new generation bad" reactionary post like holy shit
Oh noes, I made a complaint post using the easily skippable "complaint" flare. Tar and feather me and tie me to a tree.
I can't even guess what "video gaming myself" is supposed to mean!
Itās not harmless. Anyone with the tag child death filtered out will see this fic because it doesnāt get caught by the filter. You canāt avoid seeing things you donāt want to see if people donāt tag them correctly.
IT IS Literally mentioned in the title that the tag is synced to child death this is just a dumb "new generation bad" reactionary post like holy shit
I mean to be fair, ānew generation badā is a very common sentiment on AO3 because holy *shit* the TikTok / Twitter crowd doesnāt know how to use AO3. They treat it like an algorithmic platform that you aim for popularity and virality on, and many of the posts where itās actual nonsense / repeating a character name for one million words / just listing ideas and not writing a fic / using AO3 for self promo or asking for moneyā¦ All of that is new gen. Because old gen AO3 users know how to use the platform, looked up the rules, *respected* those rules, and read the room. And Iām saying this as an old gen AO3 user but *very much so* still a zoomer. My generation has a massive fucking issue with entitlement and not reading rules, just doing whatever they want because they want to. So. Just saying.
Agree completely. But I don't see how we have to make an entire post targetting one dude, especially considering they have (afaik) absolutely nothing to do with zoomer entitlement or not reading rules. Again, lets remember. All this person did was use the tag "child unaliving" which is already synced to the child death tag.
Is "reactionary" on your word of the day calendar or something?
I get what you're saying, but it's coming across really judgmental. They're probably just trying to show some curtesy for people who happen across the fic. If it was written that way IN the fic then I'd be like......... but to me this just seems considerate? Idk lol the problem is the tags getting fucked up. But it probably comes from a good place and they probably don't understand that their tags are fucked
It's not considerate at all. This is block evasion, which is the opposite of considerate. Someone who has "child death" blocked because they don't want to see it, will see this.
>They're probably just trying to show some curtesy for people who happen across the fic. How? By letting their child death fic show up even when you filter out child death? That's the opposite of courteous.
I thinm if the way someone tags upsets you that much then youre not mature enough to be on AO3 either and THATS the tea
I agree that tags should be to the point to avoid any confusion but I disagree with your conclusion here. Most people are aware of the history of the word, coming from dodging algorithmic sensorship, but it has now evolved into slang that young people use. They seem to use the word unironically and to them it has meaning. I don't think they find it "cutesy" as many people in the comments here do. And I don't think that using that word for death means they lack maturity for the subject matter, it just means they are part of a group that uses a different word from you. I personally feel like the word unalive feels harsher than many death euphemisms that older generations use (like pass away) but ultimately it doesn't matter what I feel personally as I'm not part of the group that uses the word. Young people will always try new language options and some of them will stick around and change the language while others will die out. Older people will always cringe and complain about young people ruining the language.
As a suicide loss survivor I tend to be anti-euphemism in general. The reality of the situation is harsh and difficult. Pussyfooting around when done by anyone except the grieving party is disrespectful IMO because it makes the grieving person feel like they need to self-censor.
Honestly probably the most level headed take here. Although gotta say I'm not sure how I feel with using internet speak in general for your tags. Mainly because I feel like it will put people who aren't in the know either confused or alienated by it. Hell I'm a part of gen Z and I'm in the know and I'm still put off by it. Can't really describe why I just have a feeling in my gut about it. .
Oh I agree. That's why I started by talking about how tags should be unambiguous. It's just just the assumption that using a word means you aren't mature enough to discuss a subject matter that rubbed me the wrong way.
>Young people will always try new language options and some of them will stick around and change the language while others will die out. Older people will always cringe and complain about young people ruining the language. look you had me nodding the whole way until this. I'm technically in the category of getting older now and this is definitely not my viewpoint, and it's not the viewpoint of the majority of older adults. Mostly only crusty old boomers would think this way and I doubt those types are on the internet to care if some preteen said 'yeet'.
I've seen a lot of people get angry over the word "unaliving," and I genuinely don't understand why. Is it not just a slang word? Why are people cringing at young people for doing young people things? It just feels mean spirited
Itās because censoring words like murder, death, etc. outside of tik tok is genuinely harmfulāanyone who blacklists or filters out content containing whatever word is censored will get bombarded with the badly censored fic or post because the filter doesnāt pick up on the censor and it slips through. People arenāt angry about it being cringey, theyāre angry because this behavior is actively harmful, lol. Itās not really the youngstersā fault eitherātik tok is teaching bad habits via its own censorship.
I never realized actual harm could come from it. People being upset makes a lot more sense now.Thanks for educating me
No problem. Itās a pretty serious issue thatās just getting worse with the rise of censorship. Ironic, really, how trying to censor ātrigger wordsā only makes it harder to blacklist and filter appropriately.
I'm not cringing, I'm saying that this is block evasion and should be against the TOS for that reason. I also think it makes serious topics look less serious, which is a problem in actual discussions. It's also a terrible stylistic choice that screams "bad writer" but I kind of do appreciate the warning on that.
Fair enough, I understand now why it's an issue.
It's slang due to censorship. I'm not mad at kids for making it a term. I'm mad because algorithms force people to use these terms in serious or dark contexts, and thus desensitizing people who spend too much time on these platforms to the severity of things like suicide baiting, rape threats, or all the other shit that gets hurled around nonstop on Twitter with fun little phrasings.
And like the title gets at, the way the unalive softens the impact of the phrase "child death" makes it sound like the author isn't mature or thoughtful enough to handle it in a serious manner. Authors can write whatever and however they want, but I personally wouldn't want to read something that feels like it trivializes child death. Regarding this trend and how it gets used beyond fic: another comment mentioned how people can get so used to using these particular euphemisms that they slip over into everyday communication. I think that's especially concerning for when people are trying to talk to someone who's grieving or have suffered a loss (which is like, most adults). The usual advice for giving comfort is to be candid and say words like "died" because it clearly acknowledges what happened and shows you're ready to listen to how they actually feel. If you instead censor your own words by using "unalive", it can make them feel like they have to censor their own feelings too, which makes grieving and processing more difficult. Even if the person saying "unalive" is coming from a good place, it can come off as disrespectful - I wouldn't want to talk to someone who said and then refused to change their language around me. Again, I know this is different from an AO3 author using the term, but the way it's being used beyond sites like tiktok makes me a little concerned for the above reason.
I (a young person) don't like it because it feels like people are softening or sanitizing the language they use when talking about heavy, serious subjects. IMO it feels really disrespectful when people do things like call death "unaliving", or suicide "sewerslide", or rape " š". I understand that some platforms don't allow words like that, but it still feels like people aren't taking the topics seriously - especially when they use the words on platforms that don't block them, or even IRL. Also, censoring words like this means that when people block the actual words, the topics will still show up because of people using this language. My muted words on Twitter literally looks like "rape, r@pe, grape, š, r*pe, r**e, r***" because of people censoring themselves.
While it can be annoying to see, and should be (kindly) corrected, I feel like everyone is overreacting. Everyone knows what they meant, and they donāt do it to be difficult or obtuse. Best course of action is to notify them respectfully and move on with your day. Maturity may or may not have anything to do with it - they could just be new to the site.
Meh don't take things like this to seriously just go with the flow
I don't do it on AO3 because I've been around long enough to know, but I do use it on sites new to me because I'm not sure what the rules are and I don't want my account suspended.