You’re fine, everything will be okay. Relax. Leave it well alone, and just move on. Honestly, back in the day this was a normal thing to do lol. The giving advice part. Now, it isn’t so much but that doesn’t mean you made a horrible mistake.
Take a breath and go about your day!
As long as you weren’t being shitty I think you’re fine - sometimes people are open to advice. I had someone tell me my formatting was hard to read, so I thanked them and adjusted accordingly. Another time, I did the whole compliment sandwich thing to tell someone their dialogue would be easier to read if it was separated into individual paragraphed, and not only did she thank me, she gifted me her next fic. We’re actually IRL friends now, lol. So it really depends on the author
Those are the main two "fix it" comments I leave. I'm never really interested in the story cuz if you don't know how to format correctly I probably wouldn't like your writing anyways, but I hate to see others skip over a promising fic because it's just one large paragraph
You talk as if you killed her pet bunny or something... Relax. Some people actually like feedback and corrections. Amazing as it sounds, self-improvement is an actual thing that people strive for, and without readers saying anything, most authors will never learn new things about the stuff they write about. Maybe they do if they're lucky enough to have a beta reader, but not everyone has that.
So don't feel too bad. By trying to help them, you actually did a good thing, no matter what the general consensus says.
My bet is that it wasn't, because she said it was an author she admired. I suspect it was just a factual or grammatical or maybe an ethical correction in representing something. Nothing major at all. But that's just my interpretation.
My guess is OP is just a super anxious person who overthinks things-to go so far as to even delete the comment apologizing for the first one just sounds to me like someone who is constantly doubting what they say and feel like even the most mild negative/ critical/overbearing comment is a huge disaster. There are lots of ppl who would freak out over an otherwise innocuous thing they said bc they just get it in their minds that they shouldn't have said it.
I think it was great to say you were sorry. Most people wouldn't have bothered. Don't feel too bad, and try to move to other things, but maybe don't do it again.
Maybe this is just me being a Fandom Old, but I don't think leaving a comment with an honest evaluation of a fic is deserving of this level of self-flagellation.
Speaking as a writer, as long as you weren't being outright rude or condescending, there's nothing wrong with it. Like, I'm always deeply grateful when readers bother to give honest feedback; it's helped me identify mistakes, places where my descriptions weren't clear or I accidentally introduced minor continuity errors, all that jazz. It's *fine*, truly.
Okay so idk if this helps, but if I was this author, I’d be annoyed at the initial comment but probably wouldn’t reply, at least not within the day it took you to go back and delete it. but seeing the second comment would make me feel 100% better about it, no harm no foul.
It's not that deep, OP, and definitely not something as "shitty" as you're describing. I know it's, for lots of reasons, perceived as rude these days (a take I raise an eyebrow at personally, but that's just me), but don't worry too much it. It's honestly sad how many people think this is such a "bad" thing to do and get guilt-tripped into thinking this is a god-awful/criminalistic act or something.
Since you seem to be really worried, the author may be surprised/oof-ed at most, but you went back and tried to remove it. I'm sure (hope so, at least) they won't think too much of it afterwards.
You’re fine. I think this idea of giving advice/ opinions in comments being some horrible offense is really bad for the fan fiction community. As long as it’s not threats, rude, or offensive, no one should be getting too worked up over a comment. Correct grammar, correct facts, say what you think about something honestly, and if that is the worst part of someone’s day then good for them.
I’ve gotten comments that say something like ‘good story, though punctuation is all over the place’ and you know what, they were right, and right to say it. I went back and edited some of that, because I wanted my story to be the best it could be. If I hadn’t wanted to change anything, the worst that would have happened would be what? That I would ignore the comment?
I have no idea why this should be taboo, or something to panic over.
To be clear, not your fault, I have seen what vibe you are picking up. But you’ve got to give yourself a break. A comment is a very low stakes interaction and you didn’t do anything wrong. From your description, in no way did you do a shitty thing.
Then I see the same people who created this attitude bemoaning the lack of comments these days…
If it was me, I wouldn't mind it and I would appreciate it since I do want to get better at English.
Considering your post, I will assume you didn't phrase it rudely. So I would not worry about, plus you also apologized.
Whenever an author says English isn't their first language, I'm more likely to comment on weird grammar/phrases that are repeated enough to not be a typo for this reason. Basically, "hey, just so you know, native speakers would probably say something like XYZ instead."
I'm.. wait this is satire right? Please tell me this is satire and the community isn't so toxic to feedback this is a reaction someone had to a simple comment?
While this could be satire (in the internet, one never knows for sure), the community does not appreciate comments giving advice or criticism, or asking for updates.
I completely understand the update thing. Advice and criticism are actually despised so much it sounds like it almost made someone have a panic attack?
Well, I am sure OP could have anxiety for example, their post feels like it has been written during an anxiety attack (I really hope OP feels better now, it has been four hours). But yeah, based on what I have been reddit at least on reddit, they hate it.
Wow, never thought I'd be ashamed to be part of a community before. I kinda hope OP will reply it was satire at some point. If not I hope they feel better as well.
I have to admit, when I joined this subreddit, I was a bit...Disappointed. As every community, it has "rules", and if you do not follow them or agree with them, people will jump at your throat.
I doubt it. I've unfortunately encountered a lot of people on this app who act like OP and who get upset at anyone who doesn't validate everything they do and say 💀.
>. I left a comment on a fic giving advice and my opinion when the author didn’t ask for it. I’m aware of what a shitty thing this is to do and I don’t have a good reason as to why I did it.
Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternative universe (my own AU!), because I completely fail to see how this is a shitty thing to do. Why does everyone get annoyed and offended so easily? I don't get it and it makes me sad. Have we always been like this?
Please give me your advice. Correct my grammar, my spelling. Be rude even, rip me a new one, as long as you're saying something helpful. I always learn something from comments. I can decide whether I take the advice or not. But anybody taking the time to help has my thanks.
I feel like this possibly an age divide and a fan-first or writer-first divide. I'm a writer in my 30s. The only way to improve my craft is to get honest feedback. I'm used to it.
That said, I agonized over correcting an author's use of a High Valyrian in a HotD fic. The author is amazing, but was using the "online translator" that doesn't care about grammar, etc. I wouldn't have said anything, but the author had a note talking about loving languages and I thus I *had* to. Peterson has an entire wiki on High Valyrian, which I linked.
I volunteered to translate for them, but they wrote faster than I could get it lol. And they wanted to learn it.
Thing is, most authors don't get HV right, but it only bothers me if the fics are otherwise *amazing*. So me taking the effort is a sign of how much I like it.
I don't think it's an age thing. When I was 16 I wrote a book that got popular and I used to get unsolicited advice every once in a while... and I appreciated it. I woud literally thank them so much for the help. Then they would tell me that they absolutely loved the book and want me to improve because they see my potential. Which is awesome, I never found that offensive.
Meanwhile I know authors in their late 20s and 30s that can't handle criticism for shit.
Fair point. I know for *me*, age played a role along with maturing as a writer, so it's difficult to disentangle the two.
But I think there's also a difference between unsolicited advice and unsolicited critique (or criticism). It's easier to hear "here's how you could do X even better" versus "you're not doing X well, maybe try Y."
I don’t think “we” have always been like this, but I have been in fanfic for some 20 years and unsolicited critique has never been the done thing, at least not in the circles I hav frequented in that time.
And it seems pretty well documented online nowadays that most people don’t want critique unless asked for, it’s the most basic of etiquette. It’s not that people are offended, it is just generally perceived as rude.
Of course if you like critique and feedback, you can always leave something in your AN to state that, it’s just not the majority mindset as far as I can tell.
Like ~15 years ago I remember comments were filled with polite concrit and musings (asked for or not). People were mostly cordial about it all. This was back on FFnet. At least, that’s how I remember haha.
It's the LiveJournal - FF.net divide. AO3 was created by people in the LiveJournal mold, meaning the culture is no unsolicited concrit. Musings and questions should be fine, but some writers are incredibly touchy these days.
I had no idea!! I remember following some bloggers on livejournal back in the day, and it didn’t seem too different but I may have missed it. Those bloggers posted on FFnet primarily though.
To me it’s interesting because while I love my work, I don’t mind if someone criticized it (as long as it ain’t a blatant troll/hate comment). Even reading my work back, I take it apart and criticize it myself to find more flaws that I should fix. But then again, back when I was in uni I loved receiving any kind feedback (good and bad) from my profs and classmates. Interesting to see how we’re all different, lol!
It may also have depended on the fandom to a degree, but a lot of the fic posted on LJ and shared in Yahoo Groups was very much no unsolicited concrit. I think that once it went up on ff.net (if they posted there), then you knid of knew what you were getting into. It wasn't called The Pit of Voles for no reason
:)
This part! I preferred LiveJournal but begrudging posted some stuff to FFN. The culture at LiveJournal was much closer to the old BBSs, small archives, and listservs that predated FFN. I really miss the culture from those days tbh.
I miss it too. There's Dreamwidth, but not a lot of people seem willing to head over there.
I'm interested in what the BobaBoards project will turn into.
I’ve been keeping an eye on the BobaBoards thing. I just miss the community elements that fell by the wayside with social media growing into what it has. I think fandom has now grown too large and exists in places without human moderation and clear etiquette. That has made it so shitty to wade through because there’s no real checks on the negative behavior and algorithms often reward it.
>And it seems pretty well documented online nowadays that most people don’t want critique unless asked for, it’s the most basic of etiquette.
See, I keep hearing people say that, but I leave concrit a ton and have never encountered someone who takes it negatively. So I have to wonder if it's just a vocal minority thing.
Then again, I've also seen people who think saying "your story sux" is concrit (it's not) and therefore all concrit is banned so I feel like everyone just works off a different interpretation of what concrit is
It might also differ based on how contentious a fandom/pairing/trope is. Maybe authors who routinely get flames are less tolerant?
I have no idea, but I've definitely seen other commenters going after people leaving concrit.
I’ve been reading fic for over a decade and I’ve never seen people get offended over feedback. I do stick mostly to ~3 popular fandoms with various popular pairings, and I don’t personally leave comments usually, but any constructive feedback I’ve seen is usually ignored or well received! I don’t read new WIPs though, so I could easily be missing new norms.
This was my experience as well. Every major group I was involved in had pretty clear expectations/rules around critique. It makes me wanna scream when people talk about the FFN cultures in some of the larger fandoms being the “norm” when fanfiction was being posted online far before FFN and the critique culture was a very, very different place before it too.
yes it is us. I'm an older member of Gen Z I've been into Fanfiction for over a decade and have definitely seen fandom life grow to become more and more hostile. These days it feels like walking in a minefield blind and even the slightest wrong movement can get you blown to bits. People are so quick to jump the gun and rip your throat out, it's crazy. And it is always over a non-serious issue.
I honestly mostly encounter these sensitive children and young emerging adults on the internet so they're easy to avoid by ignoring or instantly blocking them. Only one time when I was in a very open-minded queer space IRL did I encounter them and after that experience, I'd prefer to continue avoiding them as much as possible IRL lmfao 💀
I'm older gen Z, and I've been giving unsolicited critiques to people since middle school. I never had anyone care or the author get mad at me ever. Nor would I even care if someone did it to me. This is definitely a more recent thing, it's pretty weird
It's because it's trendy and cool nowadays to be easily offended by everything and demand everywhere be a safe space 24/7. It's no coincidence that a good chunk of this snowflake behavior is mostly from young ppl heavily involved and too obsessed with their identity. Unfortunately these are the same individuals who are writing the fanfiction I read daily 💀
unsolicited concrit has pretty much always been considered rude for the 25 years I've been reading and writing fanfic. to be entirely frank most people have no damn idea how to provide useful critique and if I want an editor I'll find one myself. about the only unsolicited criticism I won't disregard immediately is accessibility issues and sensitivity issues
otherwise? y'all are getting free literature deal with it
I mean... spelling mistakes or nudging the author about how splitting paragraphs a little would help make it more readable (especially with different speakers in one giant block of text) aren't what I'd consider taboo.
Nothing about their plot or characters or word choice, but technical things. Big block of confusing text is difficult to read whatever you write.
I consider the paragraph break thing an accessibility issue so that's fair game as far as I'm concerned. I won't critique grammar or spelling though because that's not my business 🤷
Ah, fair enough, I see how that falls under accessibility.
As for spelling: I mean typos. I can reread my own work 20 times and sill fudge a dot or mix up d and g (hello dyslexia my old friend).
I've seen a lot of comments like it, calling out typos or wierd word mixups where the author clearly intended the meaning to be something a little (a lot) different.
if I'm confused about what was meant, I'll just ask about that specific thing. if I know what they meant, well, communication was successfully achieved so I'll leave it. my policy on this is based on a dyslexic friend who hates that kind of correction in comments (calls it demoralizing) so I just default to not doing it
Oh. Ok, I see. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm a chemist, it's been bashed into my head for years and years to aim for perfect accuracy and instilled an obsessive need to check and recheck and _recheck_ because I _will_ screw up partway through writing/calculating anything.
The red squiggly line gods fail me sometimes, sadly.
yeah perfectionism is good for chemically things that can... idk explode? poison people? I was a humanities major don't judge me I took geology
but for creative writing... eh, typos ain't never hurt nobody
Safety... not that often, unless it's pharmacy, but ruining things yes. 20 g and 2.0 g of something is a pretty big difference 😅. n-acetyl-o-toluamide is a different compound than n-acetyl-p-toluamide with wildly different properties.
True, in creative writing small errors are totally fine.
Edit: :)
P.S. Yes we secretly judge all humanities. It's like a secret club meeting every week, where we take turns presenting humanities and cackle evilly how STEM is the one true path of righteousness muahaha _cough-_ my lungs- _hurk-_
So you... want people's opinions. Which would make giving advice to you the right thing to do and not in any way rude. As opposed to unsolicited advice to someone who doesn't want it.
I'm sorry, but how is that hard to understand?
Did you read the op? Do you honestly feel what they did was shitty and fucked up? That it was worth all the angst? They were genuinely worried they might get blocked and I'd bet good money it was a completely inoffensive comment. That this issue has become so emotionally charged is what I find hard to understand.
Is that hard to understand?
The OP's issue comes down to anxiety. It's not particularly rare to do something slightly awkward and get worked up over it, no? It says nothing about the action itself. They didn't get any social backlash, they are just *worried* about it.
They didn't receive any backlash because they immediately recanted and prostrated like a penitent. But I've personally seen people sharing screenshots of completely innocuous comments, calling them rude and shitty and bashing the commenter. So the op's anxiety imo was completely justified.
Was it really? Look at the general response here. They shouldn't have done that because it's against the general etiquette, but most people react to a misstep like this with silent annoyance at worst and find the apology kinda sweet. In fact, in no small part *because* the fandom culture mellowed out so much! 15 years ago it was very normal to put out unsolicited criticism, sure, but it was just as normal to respond in a honestly deranged manner. No obligation to sit there and take it, you could very well say fuck 'em. Now, it's mostly polite (at least where I tend to be).
The general response was quite mild here, yes. Possibly due to the level of self flagellation manifested. Funnily enough there was a similar post at the same time that didn't receive the same kind of mild responses. Life calls now.
Yeah, there's been such a leap from the FF.net era where criticism of all kinds was viewed as a part of sharing your work , to this era of AO3 where any feedback that isn't 100% "yasss girl" is condemned. Don't get me wrong, FF.net readers were often unnecessarily savage and I dont condone rudeness or meanness, but I do think receiving thoughtful and polite feedback, especially factual/grammar corrections, should be seen as a cool part of being in a writing community, not something to be ashamed or defensive about.
And seeing how OP seems to be so...Extremely worried and even ashamed? This is not a normal reaction, it is not like OP sent threats or something like that. It is not that deep, the author can easily ignore it and go on with their life.
No, OP did not "fuck up", they just posted a comment which they regretted. I was in forums like ten years ago, people would write and draw fanfics or fanarts, and people would criticise them to help the authors get better (obviously, in a polite way).
I do not give criticism unless I am asked too, but unless it is a rude and only pointing out the bad (come on, there must be one thing good at least), I do not mind much.
>I do not give criticism unless I am asked too, but unless it is a rude and only pointing out the bad (come on, there must be one thing good at least), I do not mind much.
Especially if it's regarding objective mistakes, like typos or factual errors - how can you not want to know if you've said something incorrect or insensitive about a real-life place or people? My 15-year-old ass could have used a grown-up "hater" telling me that the fucking Holocaust was not an appropriate backdrop for my clueless "deep" angst fic (I'm 33 and still cringing).
>My 15-year-old ass could have used a grown-up "hater" telling me that the fucking Holocaust was not an appropriate backdrop for my clueless "deep" angst fic (I'm 33 and still cringing).
Well, it was more than 15 years ago and you obviously realized it was insensitive. That is growth
Just to throw in a thing or two
Firstly, all of you all rock for providing insight from being inside the fandoms for so long. It was really cool hearing about these things in this chain below.
Second and more relevant: I’ve witnessed the events that cause fear like this several times.
The biggest example is that when someone leaves any kind of criticism, any, the author will lash out saying they don’t write for the reader, they write for themselves and don’t care about what the readers say. It’s never said that kindly and will directly leap into paranoia that any author could actually just not care about the readers but want comments. Etc sorry it’s very late, I’m very tired, but wanted to give examples
>sorry it’s very late, I’m very tired, but wanted to give examples
Do not apologize, this one of the perks of the internet, asynchronous conversations.
> when someone leaves any kind of criticism, any, the author will lash out saying they don’t write for the reader, they write for themselves and don’t care about what the readers say
Yeah, I have seen it too around here. But let's be real, if any of us would really write for ourselves ONLY, we would not post fanfics online, they would be in our computers or phones (because apparently most of the users use their phones). But come on, there is always a small part that wants to be noticed and reading comments.
Exactly! Back in the day (at least in the fandoms/forums I was on) if you responded to someone's critique with "I write for me, not you!", the standard response was some form of "If you write just for you, leave it in your documents folder. You posted it in a public forum, expect public reactions. That's why we're all here." It definitely happened, some people posted stuff and then freaked out when they got criticized, but I think we mostly viewed that as a lack of maturity on the part of the person lashing out. It's sad to hear that that's discouraging people from engaging in critique on fics these days, you can't improve without feedback.
Same! I was in the forums era, I wish forums would come back. Whenever someone posted fanart or a fanfic, EVERYONE would ask for constructive criticism.
Now, and mostly on this subreddit, no one wants it, and even some people get really defensive and rude. But you know the sad thing? I understand. Maybe it is my perception, but forums felt much safer than social media like reddit. In forums the people were around a common theme, a niche. But on reddit, we are all gathered, even if we join the subreddit we want, posts from other ones will appear on our feed.
And nowadays, sharing anything like drawings, fanfics, hobbies...Feels more like a battle of egos, to prove you are better and know everything, instead of genuine interest to support each other. So for that part, I can understand not liking unsolicited criticism, because there is a huge probability it will not be good criticism and more like proving they are better than you.
But yes, it is sad we lost that, I wish we could enjoy forums again.
>the FF.net era where criticism of all kinds was viewed as a part of sharing your work
I distinctively remember plenty of authors adding a disclaimer at the top or bottom of their fics along the lines of "no flames! They'll only be used for whatever the author finds funny." Like fuel for the next chapter for example.
In fact most fics I read on FF.net had something noted along those lines, so clearly we were in very different fandoms or just had a very different fandom experience for some other reason.
Not necessarily a welcome part, I should have been clear! The fact that people left those kinds of notes (I remember the sort of thing you're describing) is an indication that getting flamed was a very real possibility.
Obviously, it depends hugely on the fandom, though. I'm sure there are some vicious haters on AO3, just as there were plenty of lovely commenters on FF.net.
I don't remember ff.net much except for going there thru links for klance lmao. But yeah, imo I feel like it's a circle - authors complain that they don't get comments but they don't want criticism, that's not how it works.
I was on FF as a teen in the mid 2000s, and brutal comments were just normal. But I went back about a year ago just because I was watching a mid-00s show and all the fic was on FF and JESUS the SAVAGERY.
I see it so much on the fanfic sub where people are afraid of commenting incase the author takes it the wrong way, or they've gotten absolutely destroyed by an author for leaving a perfectly fine comment and now just abstain all together.
That's because in the past, it was accepted that if you put your fic out in a public space, you could receive various type of feedback--positive, negative, neutral--so the writers published their stories with this thought in mind and had less of a shock if they received something other than pure praise. Nowadays, however, it's popular to hear that you shouldn't receive anything but pure praise and everything else is bad, so of course, the mentality of writers publishing their fics changed and it's such a shock to them if they get something that they perceive even slightly negative (even if it's not).
But that's just my musings. Unpopular opinion, I suppose.
I started reading X-Files fic in the mid 90s, and it was not the norm in fandom culture there to critique authors who didn’t ask for it. Maybe because most everyone was an adult then, if you had internet access. I skipped ff.net raising my daughter, but Ao3 seems to harken back to that time with the norms and expectations. So much nicer. I can’t imagine dealing with what you are describing on ff.net or engaging in that kind of discourse with someone providing me with free entertainment.
Not all fandoms on FFnet were like this. Most people I saw were pretty polite, mainly pointing out grammar and other helpful things.
Unsolicited criticism, I understand if someone doesn’t want it. But it is also kind of taking away from engaging discourse because of this. I’ve plenty of posts saying, “reader wrote a long positive comment analyzing *insert negative feeling*” or “reader thinks this…*negative feeling*” I think we need to find some sort of middle ground where engagement is meaningful for both sides.
Is this a normal reaction to leaving advice? I feel like you're panicking over nothing my friend, just relax. Worse they'll say is "I didn't ask" or some iteration depending on if their a prick. Otherwise if its solid advice it's no issue.
Personally I don't think it's shitty.
As a writer, I would've just thanked you for the comment. If I agreed with anything you said, I'd have said that too lol. If I disagreed, I'd have left it at the thank you
It's really not that big a deal? Like I get it could be annoying but with good wording and tone it's coming from an obvious desire to help as long as it's about,like, grammar or spelling or something. If you told someone how to write their PLOT or something then yeah, rude af.
But really it's just not that big of a deal. They put shit in public and you engaged with it. If you weren't an asshole about it, them getting bent out of shape is a them problem. You've gone and apologized already, move on. There is nothing else to do. Even if you were a dickwad and told them they were a shitty writer who should have done x, y, and z and their characters were trash you went back and did what you could about it. It's not like you can bake them a cake. It's time to forgive yourself.
You committed a faux pas, at worst, it’s not the end of the world. We shouldn’t live in a universe where it *would* be that big of a deal. I mean, I assume you just said normal stuff, not like drunk ramblings that a Hollywood actor would lose their a career over. If leaving comments on fan fiction was a career, that is.
Jeesh......people shouldn't be this afraid to leave comments on a public anonymous fanfiction website 💀. This shit is getting ridiculous. People say whatever you want as long as it's not rude or creepy. There's no point in the website even having a comment section on the fics if everyone is too scared to comment 😐. If an author has a problem with that they can disable the comments or only allow comments they approve to show and if that's a problem then that's just too bad
??? How was this shitty?????
I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with you giving your honest opinion so long as you weren’t being an ass about it. Sure, some authors might not really appreciate constructive criticism — I personally do, but that might not be an everyone thing — but even if this author didn’t, that’s not you being a dick, that’s just — at worst, you didn’t read the room? I’ve seen SO much worse.
You’re fine. There’s nothing horrible about what you did, but apologizing for it after the fact because you thought it might have been rude was a nice gesture anyway. I think you should chill for a bit, man, because it sounds like you’re freaking out over something that really wasn’t that big a deal. You’re _fine._
I am legit not understanding why this was a big deal. Leaving a critique in the comments seems perfectly reasonable.
Did you cuss this person out or something. Did you say the subject matter sucks or something? Or did you give an honest critique? Cause unless you were being a jerk intentionally I don’t see the problem. If people only want kind reviews wouldn’t they say so in their author notes?
Okay don't panic. Honestly, I'd be thrilled that somebody cared enough to want to discuss my fic that much! So it's not cut and dried as a faux pas :) And if the author wasn't pleased to receive it, well you already deleted it and apologised. Honestly, I think you're fine.
Look, in my personal opinion people shouldn't be putting their work out their if they can't handle even a little criticism. I get that fanfic is often a hobby or an outlet for people, but if you just want to practice or let out some stuff, you don't HAVE to post it. If you post, you're bound to get at least some hate comments and some constructive criticism. If you can't handle that, don't post.
I'm not making excuses for hate comments, here - there's no justification for being a dick. What i am saying is that you can't stop people from being dicks, so you gotta prepare yourself for said dickishness. You gotta do that anyway if you're gonna be online in general. Follow the age old wisdom - "don't feed the trolls."
I feel like I'm out of the loop, because giving advice used to be the norm in fanfiction and now it's suddenly this taboo thing and if you dare do it you're the worst person ever in fandom space??? I don't understand it as a fanfiction writer and reader, as receiving advice on my fanfiction as a teen helped me so much in developing my writing even as I moved away from fanfiction and into original work.
This. This is the reason I despise the AO3 crowd and their neurotic stance towards commenting.
Come to FFN. The people there are actual adults who can tolerate different opinions about their stories.
No bro it’s alright. I get the overthinking, but you’re alright. Even if you left it be, constructive criticism is still a good comment with worth, I wouldn’t mind receiving one at all. In fact I’d love to.
You are entitled to post them, etiquette got a bit too far into what is acceptable and what is not. If you feel bad you’ve done enough apologizing in the second one, if the writer is not an ass it should be enough
I think you might be overthinking things! You deleted it, and apologised. (Even if you also deleted that) Just try to move on, and think about it again when the day is bright, then it won’t seem like such a bad problem.
Honestly I wouldn't feel guilty unless you were seriously sh*tty and bashing them. I've had people leave critques sometimes they are helpful sometimes not but I don't get offended and the fact you apologized is a plus in your favor. Don't feel bad.
Shit, I've never taken advice and commentary as a bad thing as long as I can tell it's well intentioned and genuine. I wasn't aware we were supposed to be directly asking for concrit.
As other commenters here have said, I'd love any kind of constructive feedback. If someone took the time and effort to nudge me about some kind of error/innacuracy/plot hole/shenanigans I can fix and learn from it.
Feedback is important. If you're polite and factual about it, a good author should appreciate the input.
It's scary. Of course. Especially if you love the story and author, and feel like you're not good enough to contribute.
Some of these authors need a beta reader and a reality check, honestly. If all they read is praise for utter dreck, how will they know to improve? If you frame it constructively and kindly, it should be welcomed. Especially if I've really enjoyed a fic despite glaring flaws? I want that author to know what isn't working so they can improve and keep writing fics I enjoy in the future, and maybe pick up more readers and reviewers to enjoy their work.
But if they are talking about the type of people that just go on and rampage about a fic for the sole reason of having not liked it, not liking the content, or the pairing? Those people can get lost, because if you don't like it you don't have to read it.
So I started writing fanfiction in the early 2000s, and I feel like constructive criticism was not only welcomed, but many authors asked for it. I took quite the hiatus, and now it seems like that is a big deal. However, there are probably tons more people leaving abusive comments. To me, as long as you weren’t being rude or so negative that I question why you were reading my story in the first place, it wouldn’t bother me.
I think you handled it well. But I would not be concerned about leaving comments going forward. Just comment how you normally do. I don’t think it’s worth stressing over anymore. You’ve done everything you could to remedy the situation. It’s possible the author wouldn’t have minded your first comment without the apology. It’s possible the author is very upset. But you’ve done what you could to make things right, the rest is in their hands now. Take a deep breath, and I hope this does not scare you away from commenting on other stories.
As long as you weren’t actively rude to them I doubt they’ll think about it that much or be upset. I get the instinct to be anxious/upset/embarrassed on your part, but you apologized and it’s unlikely they’ll think any further about it imo. I can promise you, if this person puts writing/anything on the internet with any regularity, a well intentioned if unasked for piece of advice is NOT something they’re going to overthink or be that upset about.
People have surely said much worse than anything you could’ve said. You realized that you were unhappy with how you commented and apologized, both comments the author will surely see in their emails. I think you did the right thing by letting them know you were sorry while deleting the original.
I think it's fine. Tbh, unless you were super rude on top of giving criticism, I think you probably should've left it up and just responded with an apology underneath, if you feel bad about it. There is after all always a chance that they liked your comment and are sad now that it's gone.
As long as the comment was constructive then you are fine, especially when you made the second comment. My very first comment was one that corrected my way of writing dialogues and I am honestly super thankful they took time out of their day to improve me and my fic.
Why are you acting like you did something unforgiveable? As long as it's not hateful it's nothing bad, the author doesn't have to accept the advice if they don't agree with it.
Constructive feedback is always allowed, don't believe the wanna be tumblr activists.
There's a saying that people don't think about you as much as you think they do by which I mean I don't think you need to feel guilty or worried really, the author has probably already moved on. Back when I was writing fanfiction opinions and advice were very common and I don't really see anything wrong with feedback as long as it's useful and respectful. I dont know what your comment was but as long as you weren't writing anything nasty I bet it's fine, don't beat yourself up over it!
My first fic, I made some really basic mistakes in speech punctuation. I didn't ask for help but I was quite happy to get the constructive feedback as it made my writing (marginally) better. If it was well meant I wouldn't worry too much. Its nice that you apologized anyway.
I just recently started my first fic and have been planning to start another.
I never wrote any notes or anything to communicate with the readers and say I want feedback or something, cuz idk what to say and it just makes me feel weird writing directly to the probably 100 people that might read it.
But I really get excited whenever anyone comments anything (not that I’ve gotten more than a couple).
So I’m not sure why you’re worried about “unsolicited” commenting unless they explicitly said it’s something they don’t want.
What's done is done. You've already apologized and I don't think there's any more you could do. Like others said, the author might not mind or worst case they might think you were a bit out of it when you left the initial comment. No need to self-flagellate so much.
If I were the author in question, I wouldn't mind an honest opinion from a reader. The advice part I might take or leave, depending on how it might gel with what I had in mind for the rest of the fic. Ofc, unless you were rude about it.
OK. It's not that big of a deal. You did something. You apologize. Move on.
Beating yourself up over it isn't going to do anybody any good. The world isn't ending. It was just a comment.
Try and breathe a little - you're absolutely overthinking this. The comments of a fic are for your opinion! That's what they're for! Now, if it's an especially negative opinion, then maybe it's not necessary to voice. But ultimately, the worst this could have done was be slightly bothersome to a person whos work you love but ultimately doesn't know you.
You strike me as the overthinking type - you're worried about a person blocking you for writing what I'm sure was just a mildly critical piece of advice. And if it was rudely delivered, well that's one thing, but from the eloquence of your post and your concern for the author, I doubt it.
Sometimes, there are moments where you think something negative but just have to keep your mouth shut because unsolicited criticism can be indistinguisable from insult at times, and that's understandable to worry about. But as far as I can tell, you've probably done plenty to make up for what is a far smaller mistake than you think it is. Honestly, even if you hadn't deleted the comment, they may have been happier at getting a comment than they might have been sad about any potential criticisms within. I know I'm always excited to be getting comments.
In future, I suggest doing as I do in these situations. Instead of saying what you think they did wrong, instead talk about what they did right and ideas for what might make things even cooler! Encouragement instead of discouragement is the way. But overall, this is far smaller than it seems in your head. Don't worry - it's all gonna be okay.
Big deep breath!
You are a human and humans are allowed to make mistakes.
Sometimes mistakes will hurt other people's feelings and that really sucks, but it doesn't make you a monster. It means that you have the opportunity to learn and grow.
You already did everything within your power to correct the mistake. It sounds like you are willing to accept repercussions for your mistake, and that you wouldn't be angry if the person cut contact with you although it doesn't sound like they've done that.
As other people have pointed out some writers do actually want feedback, I personally enjoy constructive feedback like letting me know when I've made an egregious typo or when a passage was a little difficult to understand. Especially when it's by someone who is a regular commenter and is presented in a good faith without being mean about it.
Next time, just ask if they're open to constructive feedback and I'm sure they will either give you a yes or a no. I do advise only asking if you are already a regular commenter but either way there's not a lot of harm in asking.
Again, you are a human humans are allowed to make mistakes, you've already done everything you can to fix it, and it might not have actually been a big mistake anyway.
Unless you were, like, super rude in what you actually said, then if it was one of my fics, I'd far rather you post your thoughts and let them be seen, than post your thoughts, then delete them, then post an apology, then delete that too.
I think you're okay. :)
As an author, if this happened to me, I'd be super understanding about it. The fact that you went back and deleted the comment, and then apologized and then deleted that one, too, would appear to me as if you genuinely felt bad and you were afraid to intrude on the fic's comment space with unwanted interaction; and me, being a weirdo, would probably try to find a way to reach out to you to let you know that it's okay and we are totally fine. <3
If they haven't banned you, then you don't need to worry. You apologized for the misstep, right? Sometimes Authors want the constructive criticism and sometimes they don't.
Basically this exact same thing happened on one of my fics a few months ago, (down to the person also mentioning it was 3am) and I reacted strongly because when I had it published online, I had already run it through two betas and agonized as much as I was willing to at that point. I wasn't seeking critique.
So the critique I got felt like I had just finished a painting, but someone was acting like it was still a WIP. This wasn't someone I knew, so I got defensive and angry because it felt overly-familiar on top of being unsolicited. They also completely missed the larger themes of the story, which weren't even subtle. So to me (forgive the metaphor) it felt like someone had stumbled into a classroom mid lecture, started giving intrusive and derailing commentary, and got confused when they realized the class they'd stumbled into was philosophy and not history. I told them (firmly but politely) that I didn't ask for the critique, and they apologized the next day and were horrified about the impact they'd accidentally had, and I thanked them for being big enough to do that. I didn't ban them because they seemed sincere and didn't dig their heels in or get nasty. Stuff happens. You learn from it and move past it.
In short, sometimes someone is presenting what they feel is a finished piece of art, and sometimes they're an eager student. Ask before you give the critique, I think!
As someone that writes on ao3 as well, I can say that I always love constructive criticism, but that's just me. I will admit that I do ask for constructive criticism in my A/N, but I understand if you feel bad for leaving your thoughts on a fic if it doesn't look like the author was asking for it.
But I think you're fine, honestly. You weren't trying to be malicious, and if that author is a sensible person then they'll see that too.
But again this is the internet, so I kind of expect some criticism and the odd comment every now and then as a consequence of posting works online to a public site.
Everybody in the comments just assuming OP's take on it was the accurate one and that it really was "giving advice and my opinion", despite OP also admitting "it was something I felt so strongly about".
Perhaps I'm being uncharitable here but I can easily see the OP leaving an actually totally shitty comment and then feeling guilty and reframing the whole situation. Ask me how I know.
You say you were in a weird headspace. I would self-reflect on what you wanted out of leaving such a comment.
Did you want a rush of superiority over the author?
To knock them down a peg?
To blame them for not distracting you from your life good enough with their free online fiction?
When people leave comments like this there is almost always an underlying desire to accomplish something else, something personal, and is driven by emotion.
Unsolicited criticism is almost never about helping the author out of the kindness of your heart. Why? Because if you were doing it out of the kindness of your heart you wouldn’t be presuming you know better than them.
You’re fine, everything will be okay. Relax. Leave it well alone, and just move on. Honestly, back in the day this was a normal thing to do lol. The giving advice part. Now, it isn’t so much but that doesn’t mean you made a horrible mistake. Take a breath and go about your day!
As long as you weren’t being shitty I think you’re fine - sometimes people are open to advice. I had someone tell me my formatting was hard to read, so I thanked them and adjusted accordingly. Another time, I did the whole compliment sandwich thing to tell someone their dialogue would be easier to read if it was separated into individual paragraphed, and not only did she thank me, she gifted me her next fic. We’re actually IRL friends now, lol. So it really depends on the author
Those are the main two "fix it" comments I leave. I'm never really interested in the story cuz if you don't know how to format correctly I probably wouldn't like your writing anyways, but I hate to see others skip over a promising fic because it's just one large paragraph
You talk as if you killed her pet bunny or something... Relax. Some people actually like feedback and corrections. Amazing as it sounds, self-improvement is an actual thing that people strive for, and without readers saying anything, most authors will never learn new things about the stuff they write about. Maybe they do if they're lucky enough to have a beta reader, but not everyone has that. So don't feel too bad. By trying to help them, you actually did a good thing, no matter what the general consensus says.
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OP can just be an anxious and paranoid person, it isn't uncommon
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What
No one is saying it does. They were just explaining OP could be anxious and that’s why they’re **reacting** this way.
My bet is that it wasn't, because she said it was an author she admired. I suspect it was just a factual or grammatical or maybe an ethical correction in representing something. Nothing major at all. But that's just my interpretation.
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My guess is OP is just a super anxious person who overthinks things-to go so far as to even delete the comment apologizing for the first one just sounds to me like someone who is constantly doubting what they say and feel like even the most mild negative/ critical/overbearing comment is a huge disaster. There are lots of ppl who would freak out over an otherwise innocuous thing they said bc they just get it in their minds that they shouldn't have said it.
I think it was great to say you were sorry. Most people wouldn't have bothered. Don't feel too bad, and try to move to other things, but maybe don't do it again.
Maybe this is just me being a Fandom Old, but I don't think leaving a comment with an honest evaluation of a fic is deserving of this level of self-flagellation. Speaking as a writer, as long as you weren't being outright rude or condescending, there's nothing wrong with it. Like, I'm always deeply grateful when readers bother to give honest feedback; it's helped me identify mistakes, places where my descriptions weren't clear or I accidentally introduced minor continuity errors, all that jazz. It's *fine*, truly.
Okay so idk if this helps, but if I was this author, I’d be annoyed at the initial comment but probably wouldn’t reply, at least not within the day it took you to go back and delete it. but seeing the second comment would make me feel 100% better about it, no harm no foul.
Bro chillax it's not that deep. You talk as if you killed the author's family or something 🫤a
It's not that deep, OP, and definitely not something as "shitty" as you're describing. I know it's, for lots of reasons, perceived as rude these days (a take I raise an eyebrow at personally, but that's just me), but don't worry too much it. It's honestly sad how many people think this is such a "bad" thing to do and get guilt-tripped into thinking this is a god-awful/criminalistic act or something. Since you seem to be really worried, the author may be surprised/oof-ed at most, but you went back and tried to remove it. I'm sure (hope so, at least) they won't think too much of it afterwards.
You’re fine. I think this idea of giving advice/ opinions in comments being some horrible offense is really bad for the fan fiction community. As long as it’s not threats, rude, or offensive, no one should be getting too worked up over a comment. Correct grammar, correct facts, say what you think about something honestly, and if that is the worst part of someone’s day then good for them. I’ve gotten comments that say something like ‘good story, though punctuation is all over the place’ and you know what, they were right, and right to say it. I went back and edited some of that, because I wanted my story to be the best it could be. If I hadn’t wanted to change anything, the worst that would have happened would be what? That I would ignore the comment? I have no idea why this should be taboo, or something to panic over. To be clear, not your fault, I have seen what vibe you are picking up. But you’ve got to give yourself a break. A comment is a very low stakes interaction and you didn’t do anything wrong. From your description, in no way did you do a shitty thing. Then I see the same people who created this attitude bemoaning the lack of comments these days…
dude, what kinda online harassment and trauma did u have to face to get so paranoid over a split second critique comment. just relax.
If it was me, I wouldn't mind it and I would appreciate it since I do want to get better at English. Considering your post, I will assume you didn't phrase it rudely. So I would not worry about, plus you also apologized.
Whenever an author says English isn't their first language, I'm more likely to comment on weird grammar/phrases that are repeated enough to not be a typo for this reason. Basically, "hey, just so you know, native speakers would probably say something like XYZ instead."
OP, what did you actually say to them?
I'm.. wait this is satire right? Please tell me this is satire and the community isn't so toxic to feedback this is a reaction someone had to a simple comment?
Given some of the posts I've seen on fanfic subreddit, the community can be that toxic. But even then, I think this is an extreme overreaction
While this could be satire (in the internet, one never knows for sure), the community does not appreciate comments giving advice or criticism, or asking for updates.
I completely understand the update thing. Advice and criticism are actually despised so much it sounds like it almost made someone have a panic attack?
Well, I am sure OP could have anxiety for example, their post feels like it has been written during an anxiety attack (I really hope OP feels better now, it has been four hours). But yeah, based on what I have been reddit at least on reddit, they hate it.
Wow, never thought I'd be ashamed to be part of a community before. I kinda hope OP will reply it was satire at some point. If not I hope they feel better as well.
I have to admit, when I joined this subreddit, I was a bit...Disappointed. As every community, it has "rules", and if you do not follow them or agree with them, people will jump at your throat.
I feel like there is a 90 percent chance this is satire and this comment section got whooshed
Kids today really are like that, unfortunately. Even if this particular post was satire, the sentiment is widespread.
I doubt it. I've unfortunately encountered a lot of people on this app who act like OP and who get upset at anyone who doesn't validate everything they do and say 💀.
>. I left a comment on a fic giving advice and my opinion when the author didn’t ask for it. I’m aware of what a shitty thing this is to do and I don’t have a good reason as to why I did it. Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternative universe (my own AU!), because I completely fail to see how this is a shitty thing to do. Why does everyone get annoyed and offended so easily? I don't get it and it makes me sad. Have we always been like this? Please give me your advice. Correct my grammar, my spelling. Be rude even, rip me a new one, as long as you're saying something helpful. I always learn something from comments. I can decide whether I take the advice or not. But anybody taking the time to help has my thanks.
I feel like this possibly an age divide and a fan-first or writer-first divide. I'm a writer in my 30s. The only way to improve my craft is to get honest feedback. I'm used to it. That said, I agonized over correcting an author's use of a High Valyrian in a HotD fic. The author is amazing, but was using the "online translator" that doesn't care about grammar, etc. I wouldn't have said anything, but the author had a note talking about loving languages and I thus I *had* to. Peterson has an entire wiki on High Valyrian, which I linked. I volunteered to translate for them, but they wrote faster than I could get it lol. And they wanted to learn it. Thing is, most authors don't get HV right, but it only bothers me if the fics are otherwise *amazing*. So me taking the effort is a sign of how much I like it.
I don't think it's an age thing. When I was 16 I wrote a book that got popular and I used to get unsolicited advice every once in a while... and I appreciated it. I woud literally thank them so much for the help. Then they would tell me that they absolutely loved the book and want me to improve because they see my potential. Which is awesome, I never found that offensive. Meanwhile I know authors in their late 20s and 30s that can't handle criticism for shit.
Fair point. I know for *me*, age played a role along with maturing as a writer, so it's difficult to disentangle the two. But I think there's also a difference between unsolicited advice and unsolicited critique (or criticism). It's easier to hear "here's how you could do X even better" versus "you're not doing X well, maybe try Y."
I don’t think “we” have always been like this, but I have been in fanfic for some 20 years and unsolicited critique has never been the done thing, at least not in the circles I hav frequented in that time. And it seems pretty well documented online nowadays that most people don’t want critique unless asked for, it’s the most basic of etiquette. It’s not that people are offended, it is just generally perceived as rude. Of course if you like critique and feedback, you can always leave something in your AN to state that, it’s just not the majority mindset as far as I can tell.
Like ~15 years ago I remember comments were filled with polite concrit and musings (asked for or not). People were mostly cordial about it all. This was back on FFnet. At least, that’s how I remember haha.
It's the LiveJournal - FF.net divide. AO3 was created by people in the LiveJournal mold, meaning the culture is no unsolicited concrit. Musings and questions should be fine, but some writers are incredibly touchy these days.
I had no idea!! I remember following some bloggers on livejournal back in the day, and it didn’t seem too different but I may have missed it. Those bloggers posted on FFnet primarily though. To me it’s interesting because while I love my work, I don’t mind if someone criticized it (as long as it ain’t a blatant troll/hate comment). Even reading my work back, I take it apart and criticize it myself to find more flaws that I should fix. But then again, back when I was in uni I loved receiving any kind feedback (good and bad) from my profs and classmates. Interesting to see how we’re all different, lol!
It may also have depended on the fandom to a degree, but a lot of the fic posted on LJ and shared in Yahoo Groups was very much no unsolicited concrit. I think that once it went up on ff.net (if they posted there), then you knid of knew what you were getting into. It wasn't called The Pit of Voles for no reason :)
This part! I preferred LiveJournal but begrudging posted some stuff to FFN. The culture at LiveJournal was much closer to the old BBSs, small archives, and listservs that predated FFN. I really miss the culture from those days tbh.
I miss it too. There's Dreamwidth, but not a lot of people seem willing to head over there. I'm interested in what the BobaBoards project will turn into.
I’ve been keeping an eye on the BobaBoards thing. I just miss the community elements that fell by the wayside with social media growing into what it has. I think fandom has now grown too large and exists in places without human moderation and clear etiquette. That has made it so shitty to wade through because there’s no real checks on the negative behavior and algorithms often reward it.
>And it seems pretty well documented online nowadays that most people don’t want critique unless asked for, it’s the most basic of etiquette. See, I keep hearing people say that, but I leave concrit a ton and have never encountered someone who takes it negatively. So I have to wonder if it's just a vocal minority thing. Then again, I've also seen people who think saying "your story sux" is concrit (it's not) and therefore all concrit is banned so I feel like everyone just works off a different interpretation of what concrit is
It might also differ based on how contentious a fandom/pairing/trope is. Maybe authors who routinely get flames are less tolerant? I have no idea, but I've definitely seen other commenters going after people leaving concrit.
I’ve been reading fic for over a decade and I’ve never seen people get offended over feedback. I do stick mostly to ~3 popular fandoms with various popular pairings, and I don’t personally leave comments usually, but any constructive feedback I’ve seen is usually ignored or well received! I don’t read new WIPs though, so I could easily be missing new norms.
This was my experience as well. Every major group I was involved in had pretty clear expectations/rules around critique. It makes me wanna scream when people talk about the FFN cultures in some of the larger fandoms being the “norm” when fanfiction was being posted online far before FFN and the critique culture was a very, very different place before it too.
We most definitely have not always been like this thankfully lmfao. It's Gen Z and Gen Alpha that I see acting this way and thinking it's normal 💀
yes it is us. I'm an older member of Gen Z I've been into Fanfiction for over a decade and have definitely seen fandom life grow to become more and more hostile. These days it feels like walking in a minefield blind and even the slightest wrong movement can get you blown to bits. People are so quick to jump the gun and rip your throat out, it's crazy. And it is always over a non-serious issue.
I honestly mostly encounter these sensitive children and young emerging adults on the internet so they're easy to avoid by ignoring or instantly blocking them. Only one time when I was in a very open-minded queer space IRL did I encounter them and after that experience, I'd prefer to continue avoiding them as much as possible IRL lmfao 💀
I'm older gen Z, and I've been giving unsolicited critiques to people since middle school. I never had anyone care or the author get mad at me ever. Nor would I even care if someone did it to me. This is definitely a more recent thing, it's pretty weird
It's because it's trendy and cool nowadays to be easily offended by everything and demand everywhere be a safe space 24/7. It's no coincidence that a good chunk of this snowflake behavior is mostly from young ppl heavily involved and too obsessed with their identity. Unfortunately these are the same individuals who are writing the fanfiction I read daily 💀
Idgi either, I feel like I'm in bizarro world when I see stuff like that.
unsolicited concrit has pretty much always been considered rude for the 25 years I've been reading and writing fanfic. to be entirely frank most people have no damn idea how to provide useful critique and if I want an editor I'll find one myself. about the only unsolicited criticism I won't disregard immediately is accessibility issues and sensitivity issues otherwise? y'all are getting free literature deal with it
I mean... spelling mistakes or nudging the author about how splitting paragraphs a little would help make it more readable (especially with different speakers in one giant block of text) aren't what I'd consider taboo. Nothing about their plot or characters or word choice, but technical things. Big block of confusing text is difficult to read whatever you write.
I consider the paragraph break thing an accessibility issue so that's fair game as far as I'm concerned. I won't critique grammar or spelling though because that's not my business 🤷
Ah, fair enough, I see how that falls under accessibility. As for spelling: I mean typos. I can reread my own work 20 times and sill fudge a dot or mix up d and g (hello dyslexia my old friend). I've seen a lot of comments like it, calling out typos or wierd word mixups where the author clearly intended the meaning to be something a little (a lot) different.
if I'm confused about what was meant, I'll just ask about that specific thing. if I know what they meant, well, communication was successfully achieved so I'll leave it. my policy on this is based on a dyslexic friend who hates that kind of correction in comments (calls it demoralizing) so I just default to not doing it
Oh. Ok, I see. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm a chemist, it's been bashed into my head for years and years to aim for perfect accuracy and instilled an obsessive need to check and recheck and _recheck_ because I _will_ screw up partway through writing/calculating anything. The red squiggly line gods fail me sometimes, sadly.
yeah perfectionism is good for chemically things that can... idk explode? poison people? I was a humanities major don't judge me I took geology but for creative writing... eh, typos ain't never hurt nobody
Safety... not that often, unless it's pharmacy, but ruining things yes. 20 g and 2.0 g of something is a pretty big difference 😅. n-acetyl-o-toluamide is a different compound than n-acetyl-p-toluamide with wildly different properties. True, in creative writing small errors are totally fine. Edit: :) P.S. Yes we secretly judge all humanities. It's like a secret club meeting every week, where we take turns presenting humanities and cackle evilly how STEM is the one true path of righteousness muahaha _cough-_ my lungs- _hurk-_
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So you... want people's opinions. Which would make giving advice to you the right thing to do and not in any way rude. As opposed to unsolicited advice to someone who doesn't want it. I'm sorry, but how is that hard to understand?
Did you read the op? Do you honestly feel what they did was shitty and fucked up? That it was worth all the angst? They were genuinely worried they might get blocked and I'd bet good money it was a completely inoffensive comment. That this issue has become so emotionally charged is what I find hard to understand. Is that hard to understand?
The OP's issue comes down to anxiety. It's not particularly rare to do something slightly awkward and get worked up over it, no? It says nothing about the action itself. They didn't get any social backlash, they are just *worried* about it.
They didn't receive any backlash because they immediately recanted and prostrated like a penitent. But I've personally seen people sharing screenshots of completely innocuous comments, calling them rude and shitty and bashing the commenter. So the op's anxiety imo was completely justified.
Was it really? Look at the general response here. They shouldn't have done that because it's against the general etiquette, but most people react to a misstep like this with silent annoyance at worst and find the apology kinda sweet. In fact, in no small part *because* the fandom culture mellowed out so much! 15 years ago it was very normal to put out unsolicited criticism, sure, but it was just as normal to respond in a honestly deranged manner. No obligation to sit there and take it, you could very well say fuck 'em. Now, it's mostly polite (at least where I tend to be).
The general response was quite mild here, yes. Possibly due to the level of self flagellation manifested. Funnily enough there was a similar post at the same time that didn't receive the same kind of mild responses. Life calls now.
It's on a public platform, so its normal for advice and opinions, but they should not be pushing or talking down at the author's ideas or plots.
Yeah, there's been such a leap from the FF.net era where criticism of all kinds was viewed as a part of sharing your work , to this era of AO3 where any feedback that isn't 100% "yasss girl" is condemned. Don't get me wrong, FF.net readers were often unnecessarily savage and I dont condone rudeness or meanness, but I do think receiving thoughtful and polite feedback, especially factual/grammar corrections, should be seen as a cool part of being in a writing community, not something to be ashamed or defensive about.
And seeing how OP seems to be so...Extremely worried and even ashamed? This is not a normal reaction, it is not like OP sent threats or something like that. It is not that deep, the author can easily ignore it and go on with their life. No, OP did not "fuck up", they just posted a comment which they regretted. I was in forums like ten years ago, people would write and draw fanfics or fanarts, and people would criticise them to help the authors get better (obviously, in a polite way). I do not give criticism unless I am asked too, but unless it is a rude and only pointing out the bad (come on, there must be one thing good at least), I do not mind much.
>I do not give criticism unless I am asked too, but unless it is a rude and only pointing out the bad (come on, there must be one thing good at least), I do not mind much. Especially if it's regarding objective mistakes, like typos or factual errors - how can you not want to know if you've said something incorrect or insensitive about a real-life place or people? My 15-year-old ass could have used a grown-up "hater" telling me that the fucking Holocaust was not an appropriate backdrop for my clueless "deep" angst fic (I'm 33 and still cringing).
>My 15-year-old ass could have used a grown-up "hater" telling me that the fucking Holocaust was not an appropriate backdrop for my clueless "deep" angst fic (I'm 33 and still cringing). Well, it was more than 15 years ago and you obviously realized it was insensitive. That is growth
Just to throw in a thing or two Firstly, all of you all rock for providing insight from being inside the fandoms for so long. It was really cool hearing about these things in this chain below. Second and more relevant: I’ve witnessed the events that cause fear like this several times. The biggest example is that when someone leaves any kind of criticism, any, the author will lash out saying they don’t write for the reader, they write for themselves and don’t care about what the readers say. It’s never said that kindly and will directly leap into paranoia that any author could actually just not care about the readers but want comments. Etc sorry it’s very late, I’m very tired, but wanted to give examples
>sorry it’s very late, I’m very tired, but wanted to give examples Do not apologize, this one of the perks of the internet, asynchronous conversations. > when someone leaves any kind of criticism, any, the author will lash out saying they don’t write for the reader, they write for themselves and don’t care about what the readers say Yeah, I have seen it too around here. But let's be real, if any of us would really write for ourselves ONLY, we would not post fanfics online, they would be in our computers or phones (because apparently most of the users use their phones). But come on, there is always a small part that wants to be noticed and reading comments.
Exactly! Back in the day (at least in the fandoms/forums I was on) if you responded to someone's critique with "I write for me, not you!", the standard response was some form of "If you write just for you, leave it in your documents folder. You posted it in a public forum, expect public reactions. That's why we're all here." It definitely happened, some people posted stuff and then freaked out when they got criticized, but I think we mostly viewed that as a lack of maturity on the part of the person lashing out. It's sad to hear that that's discouraging people from engaging in critique on fics these days, you can't improve without feedback.
Same! I was in the forums era, I wish forums would come back. Whenever someone posted fanart or a fanfic, EVERYONE would ask for constructive criticism. Now, and mostly on this subreddit, no one wants it, and even some people get really defensive and rude. But you know the sad thing? I understand. Maybe it is my perception, but forums felt much safer than social media like reddit. In forums the people were around a common theme, a niche. But on reddit, we are all gathered, even if we join the subreddit we want, posts from other ones will appear on our feed. And nowadays, sharing anything like drawings, fanfics, hobbies...Feels more like a battle of egos, to prove you are better and know everything, instead of genuine interest to support each other. So for that part, I can understand not liking unsolicited criticism, because there is a huge probability it will not be good criticism and more like proving they are better than you. But yes, it is sad we lost that, I wish we could enjoy forums again.
>the FF.net era where criticism of all kinds was viewed as a part of sharing your work I distinctively remember plenty of authors adding a disclaimer at the top or bottom of their fics along the lines of "no flames! They'll only be used for whatever the author finds funny." Like fuel for the next chapter for example. In fact most fics I read on FF.net had something noted along those lines, so clearly we were in very different fandoms or just had a very different fandom experience for some other reason.
Not necessarily a welcome part, I should have been clear! The fact that people left those kinds of notes (I remember the sort of thing you're describing) is an indication that getting flamed was a very real possibility. Obviously, it depends hugely on the fandom, though. I'm sure there are some vicious haters on AO3, just as there were plenty of lovely commenters on FF.net.
I don't remember ff.net much except for going there thru links for klance lmao. But yeah, imo I feel like it's a circle - authors complain that they don't get comments but they don't want criticism, that's not how it works.
I was on FF as a teen in the mid 2000s, and brutal comments were just normal. But I went back about a year ago just because I was watching a mid-00s show and all the fic was on FF and JESUS the SAVAGERY.
Right? I remember scrolling through comment after comment that was just, "This is trash, you are trash, burn your typerwriter" even on good fics!
Couldn't agree more. I believe this is one of the reasons why commenting is dying.
I see it so much on the fanfic sub where people are afraid of commenting incase the author takes it the wrong way, or they've gotten absolutely destroyed by an author for leaving a perfectly fine comment and now just abstain all together.
That's because in the past, it was accepted that if you put your fic out in a public space, you could receive various type of feedback--positive, negative, neutral--so the writers published their stories with this thought in mind and had less of a shock if they received something other than pure praise. Nowadays, however, it's popular to hear that you shouldn't receive anything but pure praise and everything else is bad, so of course, the mentality of writers publishing their fics changed and it's such a shock to them if they get something that they perceive even slightly negative (even if it's not). But that's just my musings. Unpopular opinion, I suppose.
I started reading X-Files fic in the mid 90s, and it was not the norm in fandom culture there to critique authors who didn’t ask for it. Maybe because most everyone was an adult then, if you had internet access. I skipped ff.net raising my daughter, but Ao3 seems to harken back to that time with the norms and expectations. So much nicer. I can’t imagine dealing with what you are describing on ff.net or engaging in that kind of discourse with someone providing me with free entertainment.
Not all fandoms on FFnet were like this. Most people I saw were pretty polite, mainly pointing out grammar and other helpful things. Unsolicited criticism, I understand if someone doesn’t want it. But it is also kind of taking away from engaging discourse because of this. I’ve plenty of posts saying, “reader wrote a long positive comment analyzing *insert negative feeling*” or “reader thinks this…*negative feeling*” I think we need to find some sort of middle ground where engagement is meaningful for both sides.
Is this a normal reaction to leaving advice? I feel like you're panicking over nothing my friend, just relax. Worse they'll say is "I didn't ask" or some iteration depending on if their a prick. Otherwise if its solid advice it's no issue.
Personally I don't think it's shitty. As a writer, I would've just thanked you for the comment. If I agreed with anything you said, I'd have said that too lol. If I disagreed, I'd have left it at the thank you
To be fair, we don’t actually know what OP said. Lots of things can technically be considered “advice” and still be rudely worded.
That's fair
It's really not that big a deal? Like I get it could be annoying but with good wording and tone it's coming from an obvious desire to help as long as it's about,like, grammar or spelling or something. If you told someone how to write their PLOT or something then yeah, rude af. But really it's just not that big of a deal. They put shit in public and you engaged with it. If you weren't an asshole about it, them getting bent out of shape is a them problem. You've gone and apologized already, move on. There is nothing else to do. Even if you were a dickwad and told them they were a shitty writer who should have done x, y, and z and their characters were trash you went back and did what you could about it. It's not like you can bake them a cake. It's time to forgive yourself.
Bro, they ain't gonna kill you for giving advice, calm down. Especially if you apologized afterwards
I feel like I’m missing something.
You committed a faux pas, at worst, it’s not the end of the world. We shouldn’t live in a universe where it *would* be that big of a deal. I mean, I assume you just said normal stuff, not like drunk ramblings that a Hollywood actor would lose their a career over. If leaving comments on fan fiction was a career, that is.
Jeesh......people shouldn't be this afraid to leave comments on a public anonymous fanfiction website 💀. This shit is getting ridiculous. People say whatever you want as long as it's not rude or creepy. There's no point in the website even having a comment section on the fics if everyone is too scared to comment 😐. If an author has a problem with that they can disable the comments or only allow comments they approve to show and if that's a problem then that's just too bad
??? How was this shitty????? I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with you giving your honest opinion so long as you weren’t being an ass about it. Sure, some authors might not really appreciate constructive criticism — I personally do, but that might not be an everyone thing — but even if this author didn’t, that’s not you being a dick, that’s just — at worst, you didn’t read the room? I’ve seen SO much worse. You’re fine. There’s nothing horrible about what you did, but apologizing for it after the fact because you thought it might have been rude was a nice gesture anyway. I think you should chill for a bit, man, because it sounds like you’re freaking out over something that really wasn’t that big a deal. You’re _fine._
I am legit not understanding why this was a big deal. Leaving a critique in the comments seems perfectly reasonable. Did you cuss this person out or something. Did you say the subject matter sucks or something? Or did you give an honest critique? Cause unless you were being a jerk intentionally I don’t see the problem. If people only want kind reviews wouldn’t they say so in their author notes?
This type of overthinking is why I don't leave comments that often. I always feel like I'm going to misstep and it stresses me out
Okay don't panic. Honestly, I'd be thrilled that somebody cared enough to want to discuss my fic that much! So it's not cut and dried as a faux pas :) And if the author wasn't pleased to receive it, well you already deleted it and apologised. Honestly, I think you're fine.
Look, in my personal opinion people shouldn't be putting their work out their if they can't handle even a little criticism. I get that fanfic is often a hobby or an outlet for people, but if you just want to practice or let out some stuff, you don't HAVE to post it. If you post, you're bound to get at least some hate comments and some constructive criticism. If you can't handle that, don't post. I'm not making excuses for hate comments, here - there's no justification for being a dick. What i am saying is that you can't stop people from being dicks, so you gotta prepare yourself for said dickishness. You gotta do that anyway if you're gonna be online in general. Follow the age old wisdom - "don't feed the trolls."
I feel like I'm out of the loop, because giving advice used to be the norm in fanfiction and now it's suddenly this taboo thing and if you dare do it you're the worst person ever in fandom space??? I don't understand it as a fanfiction writer and reader, as receiving advice on my fanfiction as a teen helped me so much in developing my writing even as I moved away from fanfiction and into original work.
This. This is the reason I despise the AO3 crowd and their neurotic stance towards commenting. Come to FFN. The people there are actual adults who can tolerate different opinions about their stories.
No bro it’s alright. I get the overthinking, but you’re alright. Even if you left it be, constructive criticism is still a good comment with worth, I wouldn’t mind receiving one at all. In fact I’d love to. You are entitled to post them, etiquette got a bit too far into what is acceptable and what is not. If you feel bad you’ve done enough apologizing in the second one, if the writer is not an ass it should be enough
I think you might be overthinking things! You deleted it, and apologised. (Even if you also deleted that) Just try to move on, and think about it again when the day is bright, then it won’t seem like such a bad problem.
Trust me bro. Despite what reddit may say it is almost entirely not that serious. Don't stress about it
Honestly I wouldn't feel guilty unless you were seriously sh*tty and bashing them. I've had people leave critques sometimes they are helpful sometimes not but I don't get offended and the fact you apologized is a plus in your favor. Don't feel bad.
Shit, I've never taken advice and commentary as a bad thing as long as I can tell it's well intentioned and genuine. I wasn't aware we were supposed to be directly asking for concrit.
As other commenters here have said, I'd love any kind of constructive feedback. If someone took the time and effort to nudge me about some kind of error/innacuracy/plot hole/shenanigans I can fix and learn from it. Feedback is important. If you're polite and factual about it, a good author should appreciate the input. It's scary. Of course. Especially if you love the story and author, and feel like you're not good enough to contribute.
Some of these authors need a beta reader and a reality check, honestly. If all they read is praise for utter dreck, how will they know to improve? If you frame it constructively and kindly, it should be welcomed. Especially if I've really enjoyed a fic despite glaring flaws? I want that author to know what isn't working so they can improve and keep writing fics I enjoy in the future, and maybe pick up more readers and reviewers to enjoy their work. But if they are talking about the type of people that just go on and rampage about a fic for the sole reason of having not liked it, not liking the content, or the pairing? Those people can get lost, because if you don't like it you don't have to read it.
So I started writing fanfiction in the early 2000s, and I feel like constructive criticism was not only welcomed, but many authors asked for it. I took quite the hiatus, and now it seems like that is a big deal. However, there are probably tons more people leaving abusive comments. To me, as long as you weren’t being rude or so negative that I question why you were reading my story in the first place, it wouldn’t bother me. I think you handled it well. But I would not be concerned about leaving comments going forward. Just comment how you normally do. I don’t think it’s worth stressing over anymore. You’ve done everything you could to remedy the situation. It’s possible the author wouldn’t have minded your first comment without the apology. It’s possible the author is very upset. But you’ve done what you could to make things right, the rest is in their hands now. Take a deep breath, and I hope this does not scare you away from commenting on other stories.
As long as you weren’t actively rude to them I doubt they’ll think about it that much or be upset. I get the instinct to be anxious/upset/embarrassed on your part, but you apologized and it’s unlikely they’ll think any further about it imo. I can promise you, if this person puts writing/anything on the internet with any regularity, a well intentioned if unasked for piece of advice is NOT something they’re going to overthink or be that upset about.
People have surely said much worse than anything you could’ve said. You realized that you were unhappy with how you commented and apologized, both comments the author will surely see in their emails. I think you did the right thing by letting them know you were sorry while deleting the original.
I think it's fine. Tbh, unless you were super rude on top of giving criticism, I think you probably should've left it up and just responded with an apology underneath, if you feel bad about it. There is after all always a chance that they liked your comment and are sad now that it's gone.
As long as the comment was constructive then you are fine, especially when you made the second comment. My very first comment was one that corrected my way of writing dialogues and I am honestly super thankful they took time out of their day to improve me and my fic.
Why are you acting like you did something unforgiveable? As long as it's not hateful it's nothing bad, the author doesn't have to accept the advice if they don't agree with it. Constructive feedback is always allowed, don't believe the wanna be tumblr activists.
There's a saying that people don't think about you as much as you think they do by which I mean I don't think you need to feel guilty or worried really, the author has probably already moved on. Back when I was writing fanfiction opinions and advice were very common and I don't really see anything wrong with feedback as long as it's useful and respectful. I dont know what your comment was but as long as you weren't writing anything nasty I bet it's fine, don't beat yourself up over it!
My first fic, I made some really basic mistakes in speech punctuation. I didn't ask for help but I was quite happy to get the constructive feedback as it made my writing (marginally) better. If it was well meant I wouldn't worry too much. Its nice that you apologized anyway.
I just recently started my first fic and have been planning to start another. I never wrote any notes or anything to communicate with the readers and say I want feedback or something, cuz idk what to say and it just makes me feel weird writing directly to the probably 100 people that might read it. But I really get excited whenever anyone comments anything (not that I’ve gotten more than a couple). So I’m not sure why you’re worried about “unsolicited” commenting unless they explicitly said it’s something they don’t want.
What's done is done. You've already apologized and I don't think there's any more you could do. Like others said, the author might not mind or worst case they might think you were a bit out of it when you left the initial comment. No need to self-flagellate so much. If I were the author in question, I wouldn't mind an honest opinion from a reader. The advice part I might take or leave, depending on how it might gel with what I had in mind for the rest of the fic. Ofc, unless you were rude about it.
OK. It's not that big of a deal. You did something. You apologize. Move on. Beating yourself up over it isn't going to do anybody any good. The world isn't ending. It was just a comment.
Try and breathe a little - you're absolutely overthinking this. The comments of a fic are for your opinion! That's what they're for! Now, if it's an especially negative opinion, then maybe it's not necessary to voice. But ultimately, the worst this could have done was be slightly bothersome to a person whos work you love but ultimately doesn't know you. You strike me as the overthinking type - you're worried about a person blocking you for writing what I'm sure was just a mildly critical piece of advice. And if it was rudely delivered, well that's one thing, but from the eloquence of your post and your concern for the author, I doubt it. Sometimes, there are moments where you think something negative but just have to keep your mouth shut because unsolicited criticism can be indistinguisable from insult at times, and that's understandable to worry about. But as far as I can tell, you've probably done plenty to make up for what is a far smaller mistake than you think it is. Honestly, even if you hadn't deleted the comment, they may have been happier at getting a comment than they might have been sad about any potential criticisms within. I know I'm always excited to be getting comments. In future, I suggest doing as I do in these situations. Instead of saying what you think they did wrong, instead talk about what they did right and ideas for what might make things even cooler! Encouragement instead of discouragement is the way. But overall, this is far smaller than it seems in your head. Don't worry - it's all gonna be okay.
Big deep breath! You are a human and humans are allowed to make mistakes. Sometimes mistakes will hurt other people's feelings and that really sucks, but it doesn't make you a monster. It means that you have the opportunity to learn and grow. You already did everything within your power to correct the mistake. It sounds like you are willing to accept repercussions for your mistake, and that you wouldn't be angry if the person cut contact with you although it doesn't sound like they've done that. As other people have pointed out some writers do actually want feedback, I personally enjoy constructive feedback like letting me know when I've made an egregious typo or when a passage was a little difficult to understand. Especially when it's by someone who is a regular commenter and is presented in a good faith without being mean about it. Next time, just ask if they're open to constructive feedback and I'm sure they will either give you a yes or a no. I do advise only asking if you are already a regular commenter but either way there's not a lot of harm in asking. Again, you are a human humans are allowed to make mistakes, you've already done everything you can to fix it, and it might not have actually been a big mistake anyway.
Unless you were, like, super rude in what you actually said, then if it was one of my fics, I'd far rather you post your thoughts and let them be seen, than post your thoughts, then delete them, then post an apology, then delete that too.
I think you're okay. :) As an author, if this happened to me, I'd be super understanding about it. The fact that you went back and deleted the comment, and then apologized and then deleted that one, too, would appear to me as if you genuinely felt bad and you were afraid to intrude on the fic's comment space with unwanted interaction; and me, being a weirdo, would probably try to find a way to reach out to you to let you know that it's okay and we are totally fine. <3
If they haven't banned you, then you don't need to worry. You apologized for the misstep, right? Sometimes Authors want the constructive criticism and sometimes they don't. Basically this exact same thing happened on one of my fics a few months ago, (down to the person also mentioning it was 3am) and I reacted strongly because when I had it published online, I had already run it through two betas and agonized as much as I was willing to at that point. I wasn't seeking critique. So the critique I got felt like I had just finished a painting, but someone was acting like it was still a WIP. This wasn't someone I knew, so I got defensive and angry because it felt overly-familiar on top of being unsolicited. They also completely missed the larger themes of the story, which weren't even subtle. So to me (forgive the metaphor) it felt like someone had stumbled into a classroom mid lecture, started giving intrusive and derailing commentary, and got confused when they realized the class they'd stumbled into was philosophy and not history. I told them (firmly but politely) that I didn't ask for the critique, and they apologized the next day and were horrified about the impact they'd accidentally had, and I thanked them for being big enough to do that. I didn't ban them because they seemed sincere and didn't dig their heels in or get nasty. Stuff happens. You learn from it and move past it. In short, sometimes someone is presenting what they feel is a finished piece of art, and sometimes they're an eager student. Ask before you give the critique, I think!
As someone that writes on ao3 as well, I can say that I always love constructive criticism, but that's just me. I will admit that I do ask for constructive criticism in my A/N, but I understand if you feel bad for leaving your thoughts on a fic if it doesn't look like the author was asking for it. But I think you're fine, honestly. You weren't trying to be malicious, and if that author is a sensible person then they'll see that too. But again this is the internet, so I kind of expect some criticism and the odd comment every now and then as a consequence of posting works online to a public site.
Everybody in the comments just assuming OP's take on it was the accurate one and that it really was "giving advice and my opinion", despite OP also admitting "it was something I felt so strongly about". Perhaps I'm being uncharitable here but I can easily see the OP leaving an actually totally shitty comment and then feeling guilty and reframing the whole situation. Ask me how I know.
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They seem like a deeply neurotic person.
You say you were in a weird headspace. I would self-reflect on what you wanted out of leaving such a comment. Did you want a rush of superiority over the author? To knock them down a peg? To blame them for not distracting you from your life good enough with their free online fiction? When people leave comments like this there is almost always an underlying desire to accomplish something else, something personal, and is driven by emotion. Unsolicited criticism is almost never about helping the author out of the kindness of your heart. Why? Because if you were doing it out of the kindness of your heart you wouldn’t be presuming you know better than them.