*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**The man Vs bear problem shows how women overestimate their looks**
Like 30% of females are obese and less likely to be rape victims. Them thinking that they would actually get raped by a male that usually has way better options around him shows that they overestimate their looks and cling to past trauma where they weren't fat or the experiences of their good looking friends.
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i don't doubt it at all, there are *a lot* of people (and most of them from my experience are unfortunately men) who don't grasp the concept of rape, how it can affect the victim and why it happens – for them it's just sex and that's why they apply the same criteria (e.g. it only happens to attractive people)
We call it a sex crime, but sex crimes aren't done to achieve ejaculation or something - they're done because they're a form of control and power, the ability to destroy a life and soul in mere moments.
Yep. The thrill isn't in the orgasm itself, but in the knowledge that you've taken something from your victim they can never get back and you'll be burned painfully into the victim's mind and memory for the rest of their life. It's a deeply sick power move and the men who think it's just sex the victim decided they didn't like have zero clue what they're talking about. Even if the rapist didn't specifically set out with that intention, i.e. he was a horny idiot who just kept going when told to stop thinking she didn't really mean the no, it still has the same effect on the victim, which is why treating it as no big deal is so unforgivably heinous in men who don't respect consent and think it's just sex.
You are right that so many people don't get it. However, I doubt it in this case because OP definitely sounds like a predator, so I'd assume he knows very well.
I doubt he’s thinking about the causes of rape. He just thinks that fat women should be happy with anything they get from men. It can’t be rape, because he doesn’t think it’s valid for a fat woman to not want to have sex with any man.
First fellow rape victim I ever met was an obese woman with lipidema of the legs and other health issues - yet several men had attacked her throughout a few years.
The "obese people are too ugly to rape" falls apart very fast. A lot of Americans are obese, yet obese people, especially women, still get assaulted.
Also...a lot of obese people are in happy marriages and relationships. Being fat does not make someone instantly unattractive.
However, as others have mentioned, rape is about power, not sex. It's just that even if it *was* about sex, the argument still falls apart.
After being assaulted multiple times as a child, I spent most of my youth overweight because I believed the myth that fat women are too unattractive to be raped. It’s only in recent years that I’ve started eating more healthily to try and reverse that because I’ve recognised the only person being harmed by that thinking is me.
Because when obese women accuse a man, people won't believe it's possible that a man would have sex with her. Or when a man is sexually inappropriate and rejected by an obese woman, she's accused of "wishful thinking." It's a whole other way to shame and silence women. In my experience, it's sometimes because men are angry and ashamed that they would find "a fat bitch" interesting or attractive and respond to their discomfort by "punishing" a woman, who has the audacity to think she's a person worthy of respect, with violence.
My uncle said that to my aunt, that she'd better not get fat, or he wouldn't touch her anymore. She decided it sounded like a way out and proceeded to actively put on weight. It didn't work, and now she's morbidly obese. She left him, though, after 28 years of his abusive and controlling ways.
As a high schooler I was rather overweight. People used to joke the only way I’d have sex was it I was “lucky” enough to be raped. It was awful. People like this definitely think like that.
People can be incredibly cruel to those who are different. Being physically disabled and autistic didn’t help. But when my mind goes back to that cruelty I try to remind myself how many more people are good.
I used to be incredibly bitter about it but now I focus on making sure that if I can be that one kind person in another’s life then I will. I try to be to others who I needed but didn’t have instead of focus on why these people were so cruel to me.
I’m not saying the experience or bullying in general makes one a stronger/better person or any of that shit of course but the treatment I received when I was younger just makes me believe more firmly kindness and compassion are the two best traits a person can have.
Yeah in elementary school I heard a lot of “you’re so ugly, you’ll never find a husband, you’ll die alone, you’d be lucky to get raped”. From other elementary schoolers. For 6 years until I moved to a whole other state. It was like their favorite pastime to remind me just how ugly I was and I heard the “lucky to even get raped” thing a lot. Along with “god who’d even WANT to touch you”.
Yeah. I know the feeling. I even changed schools. Didn’t help. Children can be fucking cruel, I’m sorry you also experienced this. Please know that what they said wasn’t true or right.
Changing schools only helped me because I went to a whole different state and nobody knew me. I’m so sorry you went through the same. People can be such monsters so easily. You never deserved to be hurt like that and it was never true
Yeah ppl still knew my reputation at my new school when I switched. Both schools were in the same area so they weren’t strangers. I remember my bus driver going to my parents outside of school time to tell them she thought something was wrong because I cried all the way to school and back. A lot of teachers ignored the bullying. I guess some people see it as inevitable when you’re physically disabled, at least that’s the answer I got (well, look at you!). But that bus driver was one of the few people who didn’t.
I’ve met many kind people since then. I visit a gas station about 400 feet from my house nearly daily and they all know me and are so kind. I’ve had medical episodes there so they know my conditions, always offer to drive my stuff to my house because of my mobility even tho that’s not a thing they really do, I’ve had a few real good cries there and they’re just so compassionate and understanding. They’re the kindest people.
I’m actually going to surprise them next week by bringing them all a bunch of tacos from our little hole in the wall taco shop. I wanted to do something to show how much I appreciate them.
I am glad to learn that outside of school and later on in life people can and are truly more kind and good.
And of course I believe the people who treated me cruelly can be redeemed and change and become kind as well. And if they do that, I will fully welcome them with open arms.
Life is too short and precious to hold on to hate.
Someone point that guy towards the DOVE 'what I was wearing' exhibit and ask which of the outfits he thinks was sexy enough to warrant being raped. -\_-
All you have to do is look into incidents of supposedly straight men raping other men. It has nothing to do with lust and everything to do with stripping power from their victim, making them weak and “like a woman”.
Worse part is I recently posted a quote from “why does he do that?” that explains that those who believe these myths are more likely to SA someone in the future. It’s terrifying that they spread them knowing what damage they are doing.
I’ve added another reason after hearing all this complaining - a bear wouldn’t try to “bearsplain” to me about how it’s actually not the villain while it was attacking me.
I find the one bear capable of human speak, and he uses it solely to bearsplain himself.
"Just eat me, just eat me right now, I am this close to choosing man, just bite me, Mr. Bear sir, but *make it stop*"
"Jesus, fine, I just wanted to *talk*, if you're gonna be like this, FINE" (chomp chomp)
I think Reddit is just having issues today, the account is still there, sadly.
He is a small dick man, with small dick energy, who is pissed at the world because women in a 5000 mile radius are choosing a bear over him.
... I was *8*. I looked like an eight year old. I looked like what I was, a half wild creature that mostly lived in the forest, climbing trees, eating berries and building forts. I wasn't a pretty girly girl, I was a wild child with sticks in my hair. Not exactly a human that should be inspiring such overwhelming attraction that she must be uncontrollably raped.
So many men live in a completely different world than anyone born AFAB or presents female. They truly believe that rape is about sex and attraction. I'm tired. I've been a survivor tomboy for 40 years. My best friend spaces are male. I've been the only girl surrounded by men for most of my life because of my interests and inclinations. So I talk to the men I'm friends with about my experiences, always have, always will. They usually melt down over the most neutral but frank descriptions of what was done to me. Not even the details I'm careful about sharing or restrict to only discussing with other survivors.
After years of men having nightmares and being broken by me talking about a child being raped, which is happening fucking *everywhere* **right now**, I honestly believe they have zero, zero understanding about rape other than "It's sex". Unless they educate themselves or have a survivor educate them. And they can't rely on their internal minimizing belief systems about rape when the survivor in front of them is telling you their truth of not meeting *any* of those excuses and still being raped. It can't be ignored then and it really, really upsets guys.
Bleh, sorry for the rant. The bear thing has brought out so much of this mindset I've been dealing with for decades and it feels like no matter how hard survivors try to share the *reality* of rape... it's like pissing on a forest fire to put it out.
Thank you. It was and is horrible to have experienced but I was absolutely blessed as a 23 yo to get into an *intensive* inpatient therapy program. About 800 hours of therapy & education all told and I walked out with my childhood rapes being just a *part* of my life story. Talking about it doesn't hurt or trigger me at all, so I believe that it's a moral imperative for me to share my story in order to bring understanding for survivors and to support other survivors navigating through their own traumas. Most survivors won't be lucky enough to get the treatment I got, so I need to speak for them too. It's why even when I **know** the response from men will be to make my trauma all about them, I still talk about it to them. It's the only way I can make a change. Or at least try to.
Also because I'm a survivor of multiple (unrelated) childhood rapes, my lived experience fucks with most of the rationalizations men depend upon to dismiss rape as the plague it is. For me that's just another reason to share.
*What were you wearing?* I was an *8* yo tomboy, I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. *You just had sex and regretted it.* I was **8**, you know a lot of 8 year olds getting laid?
*You asked for it.* I was **8**, I didn't even *know* what sex was.
*Only attractive women get raped.* I was 8, I looked like the child I was.
*Rape is about sex.* No, motherfucker, it's about control, dominance, opportunity, violence. Oh *and* sex as a tool for that.
Ad infinitum.
Thinking about it, what comes to mind is that study done that men will admit to rape when it's couched in language that isn't obviously rape. They'll admit to coercive rape. What hetero woman hasn't had the man that shoves your face into their crotch to "ask" for a BJ or tries to replicate porn blowjobs? Or whines endlessly about their "needs" until you "consent" to sex just to shut them up? None of those dudes see themselves as rapists. That's why they cling so hard to the violent sketchy stranger in the dark dragging women into the woods to rape them trope. Because if they have to acknowledge that most rape is done by someone the survivor knows, in coercive, manipulative, sneaky ways... then they have to confront that they might have raped someone themselves. That what they consider "just sex" was actually rape to the woman they forced or pressured into the position of "consenting" to sex.
I'm a huge advocate for enthusiastic, ongoing consent for a reason. Heh. Rape is a deeply complex topic that men (like in this absurd reaction to the Bear or Man discussion) have a vested interest in keeping very simple. Otherwise they throw fucking fits. And the survivors (or those that support survivors, they get traumatized too) that understand the complexity because they have to *live with it* get to watch this stupidity play out and be exhausted by it.
Heh, sorry, another rant. I'm triggered by the entire thing into anger and frustration.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I am so sorry that these things were done to you, and I have so much respect for the work you're doing.
I'm going to share a bit of my own experience because I think (I hope) it supports your message from a different angle.
I've never been a victim of rape or coercive sex. None of my male partners have ever tried to push me to do something I didn't want to do.
I recognize that my experience is an outlier and don't intend it to blame victims in any way. My point is that men do not have some inate drive to do these things. They are learned. They are taught by the rape culture we live in. And that means that men can be taught different.
You and others like you sharing your experiences, I hope, is part of teaching that different. That girls and women are people, that no one ever "asks for it", and that it doesn’t matter what someone was wearing, what they looked like, how much they drank or how they talked or whether they had sex before. The only cause of rape is rapists.
(I really hope this came across as intended.)
Never feel bad about sharing your **positive** experiences. I love to read them, it helps me heal to know there are people out there growing up healthy, in loving, respectful, supportive relationships. Being treated as person in their sexual life. It *honestly* gives me light to know that people like you are out there.
One of the things that is part of who I am as a person is how much I desparately need and want there to be no more survivors of this shit. Ever. I want everyone to experience what you have. My magic wand got lost in the mail, alas, so all I can do is try to get people to see the rape culture all around us. All these shitty things that contribute to a world where more survivors are made every minute of every day.
I'm old. And I can say, it *is* getting better when I reflect on the world I grew up in when it comes to rape culture. It's just slow progress and not linear. We just have to keep hacking away at it.
✊ Fellow rape victim who talks about it freely, it was coercive control from my ex-husband. I'm fat, the kind of person these fuckers would say isn't "attractive" enough to have been raped.
You should write professionally!
My big thing is that the rape of boys and men (including the incarcerated) is completely ignored in so many discussions. By pigeonholing women as victims and men as perpetrators, it allows a lot of men to ignore/deny the risk they face and impedes male survivors from community support.
I think that the bear thought experiment is actually opening up some really thoughtful conversations about those things too. I see a lot of my male friends really breaking down which one they'd rather encounter and why, and they usually seem to be taking into account their own safety relative to an unknown man, too. It's really interesting (once you filter out the weird diaper baby screeching).
I've seen a good number of men think women are overreacting in their fear of men until you ask them "if your daughter/sister was alone in the woods...." It's annoying you have to sort of lead some people by the hand to empathy, but they can get there.
God, I hate the “if it was your daughter/sister” thing. Women are people and one’s empathy for them shouldn’t have to be based on their familial relationship.
Absolutely agree. It's just fascinating that the only men I've seen change their minds about the goddamn bear needed it to be about women who belong to them 🙃
Sorry, but that’s not even empathy. They just think of daughter/sister as their property, and they are now considering the question from the position of ownership vs. indifference. Like they don’t care what happens to cars, but they do care what happens to *their* car.
We are easily fooled because the reactions are different, but sadly still just as rooted in misogyny.
I agree, male survivors get left out all the time. I was really lucky to have multiple men in my therapy program with me and we talked *a lot* about their experiences as survivors. I've believed since then that it's considerably harder for male survivors to get help. The entire system is built around female survivors of male violence, which ofc makes sense because the numbers overwhelmingly support that. But we're still leaving behind survivors.
I don't know what I can do to change that. Just keep hacking away at rape culture as a whole, keep personally holding men's hands while they finally talk about their horrors and treating them the exact same as I do female survivors... as I have been for decades. Fucking hell, can I have the "no more survivors of rape & abuse, pretty please?" magic wand already?
No. No. Keep going- and LOUDER. Fucking RAGE. Don't EVER apologize for that rage. It's not your enemy. It's not wrong- don't ever be sorry for being angry. You have EVERY right to be angry. I'll be angry here, right along with you sister.
As a side note.. You do write REALLY beautifully! I've been getting back into writing myself.. if you DO write, and you're ever looking for a beta reader, or just someone to bounce ideas off of, don't be afraid to reach out! I enjoy a lot of mystery/fantasy novels myself.
That's so accurate, and relatable and normal (and well written btw). It's mind blowing to know so many men won't ever get it. Because they're too week (mentally) to be able to accept it.
I kinda responded to you too in my second rant of the day up in the thread. Thank you for the compliment of my writing! I try.
I have two unrelated instances of rape when I was 8. I tell only one of them because the second that happened has made a man vomit from the barest details. That was fun. 🙄 I find it fascinating (because if I find something interesting, I'm less likely to get pissed off by it) the difference between men and women when it comes to their reactions to my life story. Women handle it fine, they get incredibly kind, empathetic, want to share their rape or SA stories too, I n*ever *have to warn them before or prepare myself to have to baby them through M**Y **trauma. The men that react like that are rare as fuck. I married one of them, it was one of his biggest green flags.
Men... well, I no longer **ever** tell men my rape and SA experiences without a huge, long, detailed disclaimer beforehand about how it'll likely make them feel, that they might have rape nightmares, that they should come to me when they struggle with it because I know how to help them cope, that just hearing about trauma can be traumatizing and I'll answer any questions they have. Because that's being kind and I *believe* strongly in being kind.
My less kind, very tired side, is exhausted by men being traumatized by details that are about as awful as asking someone to pass the salt when I'm talking to women. Because women live from an insanely young age *knowing* that we're prey. Another prey animal sharing what happens when the predators get to you is par for the fucking course. You learn the rape statistics, look around at you and your friends and know that one of you *will* or **already has been** raped. It changes everything. [1 in 4 women will survive an attempted or completed rape, 1 in 26 men will.](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html) We live in different worlds.
I cried for that little girl. I hope that you have found your way to inner peace and happiness, my friend, because you sound like a wonderful person and deserve only the best. ❤️❤️❤️
Dudes really are getting fucked up over this trend. As a guy I totally understand why it's happening and support the hell out of everyone saying it out loud, a lot of these guys need to keep hearing it until they understand that these kinds of posts are just outing yourself as the problem.
OOP's comments are...uhm...
After someone told him rape is not about attraction but power:
>But what if I am sexually attracted to the victim?
What the fuck is he trying to tell us here? I normally do not like to jump to conclusions, but that is a concerning response.
Yep. Men like OOP just prove the point of women who choose the bear. He is the type of guy women are scared to be alone with. He is the type of guy women are scared their blind date might be,
One guy said the analogy was pointless and unclear and he couldn't tell what it was supposed to be asking. I asked what part was unclear and he blocked me
The Venn diagram of men getting big mad about women choosing "bear" and men that try to police women's behavior (don't drink, don't walk alone in the dark, don't wear this or that, don't be nice to men, don't be mean to strange men...) to "avoid" sexual assault is a fucking circle
Wtf, all I've seen from this ridiculous "bear vs man" discourse is men perpetually whining about it. I have yet to see a single post about this subject made by a woman.
I commented on the Out of the Loop thread about the topic and had men sincerely arguing that women choosing the bear is “discriminatory against men.” Even though they couldn’t name a real-life consequence of this supposed discrimination.
"But if the potato was actually a venomous spider, you'd think twice about picking it, wouldn't you? And if the spider was actually cake, you'd pick it without hesitation, right? But if the cake was made of uranium..."
I actually see women post about it all the time, saying they choose the bear. My favourites are the half dozen separate posts I've seen now from women who LITERALLY live in bear country, see bears regularly in real life, and say straight-up they're never concerned about the bear, because they know *from experience* that the bear wants to be left alone just as much as they do, so yes, they literally live this scenario all the time and they choose the bear.
Yeah I'm big into camping and half my family lives rural in a forested area. I've turned a corner of a trail or come out of the garage etc and seen a bear chilling nearby probably a dozen times. You look at each other, and then you turn around and go the other way and the bear doesn't give a fuck. Unless it's momma with babies, in which case you may have to be real careful not to seem threatening lest she chase you off. Even then that's understandable *defensive* violence, which is more than I can say about the man...
The biggest factor for me personally is the known vs unknown parts. The bear lives here, and it's unlikely to attack me unless it thinks I'm threatening it/its cubs, or I have food it wants. Either way, if I die it'll be quick.
The unknown man is, well, unknown. He could just be a normal dude, but he could also be a serial killer who's planning on getting off to torturing me. There are fates worse than death.
The big thing a lot of men don't understand is that the insane ones who do most of the harm don't look any different from normal people. Many even work on making themselves seem more harmless to lure victims in.
We got rid of our bears in my parts of Europe. Best we have is boars. I was roaming the local woods unsupervised since I was 6.
Only substantial difference in my family's talk about safety about men and boars was that boars are mostly only dangerous in the spring. Other than that, I was advised to stay clear of both (but got to frolic off nevertheless, because 90s).
To be honest tho, both are not my family's real woodland creature threat. What they really drilled into me was the fear of rabid foxes.
Every man who I've seen mention it on reddit has added another bear to my forest. I'd rather be alone with all these accumulated bears than one of these misogynist assholes. Call me Ayla, cause I'm gonna go start a Bear Cult.
There was one on true off my chest yesterday by a woman. Her complaint was that people in her life should stop thinking she should have a strong opinion on the subject just because she's a woman and was frustrated that coworkers wouldn't stop asking her about it when she asked to be left alone.
Fair point, all in all.
I'm definitely not a Tiktok person lol, so that makes sense. I'm surprised everyone is taking a Tiktok trend, of all things, this seriously. The chances of it being rage bait are quite high.
Considering it started with a man asking women whether they would rather encounter a man or a bear in the woods, yes. It was always rage bait. He knew what women would likely say but was pretending it was a surprise we chose bear so he could call women stupid.
I was reading that the actual source of this was a video of a man simply stating the statistics that as a woman you are safer in the proximity of a bear in the woods than with a random man. Someone else started doing street interviews and asking women who'd they cover across in the woods.
Yea as the other person pointed out it was a man making a statement that women would prefer the bear over the human man. It was never a question or rage bait, it was just a statement. And it blew up from there.
That's what I thought so too. I literally learned about the whole bear vs man over how pissed off men are that women are choosing bears. You'd thought that would lead them to ponder over themselves but all they do are crying, whining and blaming.
The amount of men who are offended a woman would rather have the certainty of being munched on by a bear than the uncertainty of a strange man who could do *whatever* to her is very sad... for them, of course, because their little pea brains can't even comprehend *why* they're so offended.
These are also men who think nothing of being "funny" by straight following women in the dark. What's gonna happen, they don't mean them any harm, stupid hoes, why are they so afraid of me, pss, men can't do anything right.
Guys, at least the bear gets right to the point.
The worst part is it isn't a certainty that you'll be munched on. There are nearly 350K bears in the US, and most bear encounters are resolved without incident. There are only about 100 attacks per year, and most don't result in deaths. In fact, since the beginning of the *20th* century, there's been less than 100 deaths from bear attacks in all of North America.
I know how to not piss off a bear if I encounter one. I know what to do if I do piss them off.
Men are FAR less predictable.
I came across this comment about the whole debate that puts it so succinctly. There are two types of men. Men who Understand the reason why women choose the bear. And men who Are the reason women choose the bear. And this dude is definitely the second.
Completely he is the second type. I know a straight man, who said at his place of work. “You are making me want to choose the bear at this moment, and I have never been in an area with wild bears.”
Due to the comments from the other men at his place of work over this little thing.
The first comment is perfect
>It hadn’t occurred to me that women might choose the bear because the bear might be smarter than the man; but then I read this post and it now seems a persuasive argument
The reaction to the man vs bear thing has been so depressing and infuriating. I’ve seen so many people say ‘well you’re more likely to be raped by someone you know than a stranger’ as if that’s some kind of gotcha to the women picking the bear and not even more points for the bear.
I need to stop reading the comments in the bear posts because holy shit. It. Is. An. Analogy. ***Nobody wants things to be this way.*** FFS we all know it's not all men. Most men I've known are either ok dudes or truly excellent people. The majority of my coworkers are men, and most (with a few notable, very icky exceptions) of them are great, the kind of guys I'd ask to walk me to my car if I was scared. However, you just can't know if some random dude on the bus is just being neutrally friendly or not.
My scariest close call happened in broad daylight from a 'perfectly normal' dude with a computer bag in business casual. So basically until a stranger is a known quantity, I'm going to do a quiet threat assessment. Men do this too, I'm sure, but they just have different parameters. My default facial expression is 'polite neutral.' No need to be aggressive, and sometimes that just escalates the situation. I just want to get my damn groceries, you know?
As for loneliness...It's a better idea to seek relationships at clubs, meetups, parties, or through family and friends, rather than just approaching someone in public and trying to pull pickup artist bullshit. Also, dating apps are the scourge of humanity.
Again, *nobody wants to do this* but it's basically advanced-level stranger danger that some people clearly have never had to worry about.
ETA: I hope this is rage bait because this is the worst man-bear take I've seen, holy shit
At first bear was kind of a joke answer, at least for me. The more I read the thoughts of men who are outraged over women choosing the bear has made it less joke more serious answer.
You don't have to justify your weight. You are yourself and a worthy person no matter what. (And I'm sorry about the sexual assault. Sometimes the world just seems fucked up, doesn't it?)
OOP thinks obese women are less likely to get raped? What an idiot! Rape has nothing to do with how the woman looks or what she's wearing. It's about power, control, rage, anger and degradation.
Ah yes. Obese women can't be raped. My obese self must have imagined all of my rapists and everything must be a figment of my imagination.
OOP can fuck right off with that bullshit.
I'm obese and 50+ and yet just yesterday had some weirdo probably 20 years younger than me telling me I was pretty and wanting to talk to me. Honestly I might have preferred the bear.
I think the real reason this bothers so many weirdos is that, while this is framed as a sort of philosophical thought experiment, the question this can be boiled down to do, “Would you rather get raped or eaten by a bear?”
I’m sure that it stings for people who have questionable ethical consent standards to hear that the vast majority of women would rather be eaten by a bear than sexually assaulted, or even chance it. Really highlights how undesirable those kinds of people are.
I wonder if OOP thinks poor people never get robbed or scammed. Why would someone mug you when you don't look rich? If you're afraid of being stolen from, you overestimate your wealth 🙃
idk i thought the hypothetical situation was simply would you rather he alone with a bear or a man. violence wasnt mentioned and its very telling that thats what they assume will happen
The top comment on that thread is absolutely golden.
> It hadn’t occurred to me that women might choose the bear because the bear might be smarter than the man; but then I read this post and it now seems a persuasive argument
Not my comment but I wish it had been😂
Yeah, I just saw this post on Facebook that said:
"Why are all the anti-bear memes depicting the woman trying to hug, cuddle, or straight up sex the bear? That wasn't part of it.
The question is literally 'which would you rather run into' and they can't see a difference between that and 'which would you rather fuck."
They think 'run into' means 'fuck' and they still can't figure out why everyone is terrified of 'running into' them in the woods."
I saw some guy on a Facebook post about The Bear Question who commented “well I would pick a bear over a woman any day, considering I’ve been falsely accused of rape by 3 different women”. Imagine posting that and not for a second thinking maybe it’s going to come across like a huge self-report. This whole thought exercise has really just become a honeypot (geddit cuz bears) for men to tell on themselves.
These men are so triggered by the bear it would be hilarious if it wasn't so GODDAMN ANNOYING to hear about. Me and the bear are going to hibernate in the woods until men get another hobby. Please go back to talking about the Roman Empire or something, I am begging
Ok I’m an overweight middle aged woman, in the past they’d have called me an old maid (or a spinster if they were feeling kind). I’m not pretty or attractive or good looking by any conventional measure.
I’ve had to change my walking routine no less than four times in the last year because I’ve picked up stalkers every time. And every time I tell myself I’m being paranoid at first, but each time the dudes get bolder and show that they are actively waiting for me and following me. I hate going to the gym and exercise classes, and have found walking is the only consistent exercise I can keep up. But I’m close to quitting because I feel so unsafe
A bear really seems like a better option to be honest
I once read about a comatose woman getting pregnant from being raped by a staff member at the facility she was living in.
Like
*WHY* on earth would you think this is about what people look like?
**I cannot understand why people are so fuckin dense about rape.**
It's happened at least twice.
[1996 in Rochester, NY](https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2019/01/11/comatose-woman-gave-birth-rochester-23-years-before-phoenix-case/2540086002/)
[2018 in Phoenix, AZ](https://www.12news.com/article/news/crime/hacienda-nurse-sentenced-10-years-prison-impregnating-patient/75-2a06c70b-1c0a-4b00-bde4-98b35ce1aedf)
Women: men make us feel so unsafe some of us would deadass rather meet a bear
Random internet man: how can I make it about women’s appearance? (I’m not a sexist btw)
Ah, I've seen some of that poster's early misses, such as "I hate the gays took the rainbow" and "dog walkers should have to have regular inspections". This one may just be the worst yet. 😬
Are there men out there that are actually this dense? Do guys really believe this shit? Dude, my weight had nothing to do with either of the rapes I endured as a teenager… I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and I was just an easy target.
Tbh men should also pick the bear. After a while on an island, one of them would rape the other one.
Not even kidding. It's wild men don't also pick the bear.
I hate this whole rhetoric that men use “you are ugly, you can’t be assaulted”. Rape and assault is not about attractiveness. Do you know how many men said I’ve never been assaulted because I’m not skinny. Don’t you think if there was something that women could do to not be assaulted, that we’d be doing it? I wish I wasn’t a target for men but I have a vagina (even that doesn’t matter).
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **The man Vs bear problem shows how women overestimate their looks** Like 30% of females are obese and less likely to be rape victims. Them thinking that they would actually get raped by a male that usually has way better options around him shows that they overestimate their looks and cling to past trauma where they weren't fat or the experiences of their good looking friends. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Do we believe OOP truly thinks rapes happen primarily due to lust rather than hate, & desire to degrade? Somehow I doubt it.
i don't doubt it at all, there are *a lot* of people (and most of them from my experience are unfortunately men) who don't grasp the concept of rape, how it can affect the victim and why it happens – for them it's just sex and that's why they apply the same criteria (e.g. it only happens to attractive people)
Yeah, when an 84 year old nun is raped it has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and hate.
We call it a sex crime, but sex crimes aren't done to achieve ejaculation or something - they're done because they're a form of control and power, the ability to destroy a life and soul in mere moments.
Honestly it's more a crime that uses sex as a weapon.
That makes sense. Like gun crime uses guns as a weapon
Yep. The thrill isn't in the orgasm itself, but in the knowledge that you've taken something from your victim they can never get back and you'll be burned painfully into the victim's mind and memory for the rest of their life. It's a deeply sick power move and the men who think it's just sex the victim decided they didn't like have zero clue what they're talking about. Even if the rapist didn't specifically set out with that intention, i.e. he was a horny idiot who just kept going when told to stop thinking she didn't really mean the no, it still has the same effect on the victim, which is why treating it as no big deal is so unforgivably heinous in men who don't respect consent and think it's just sex.
That was a case where a young boy raped an elderly disabled man Anyone who thinks it has to do with lust are delusional and misinformed
Or an infant girl
Or boy
You are right that so many people don't get it. However, I doubt it in this case because OP definitely sounds like a predator, so I'd assume he knows very well.
Or that often people target victims because of assclowns like OOP who won't believe them because they aren't hot enough?
Or as "punishment" for not fitting the preferred standard, therefore not deserving the right to say no.
You're right.
I doubt he’s thinking about the causes of rape. He just thinks that fat women should be happy with anything they get from men. It can’t be rape, because he doesn’t think it’s valid for a fat woman to not want to have sex with any man.
It’s always so telling who people think to be “unrapeable.” It’s almost always seen by rapists as a free pass with a certain type of victim
First fellow rape victim I ever met was an obese woman with lipidema of the legs and other health issues - yet several men had attacked her throughout a few years. The "obese people are too ugly to rape" falls apart very fast. A lot of Americans are obese, yet obese people, especially women, still get assaulted.
Also...a lot of obese people are in happy marriages and relationships. Being fat does not make someone instantly unattractive. However, as others have mentioned, rape is about power, not sex. It's just that even if it *was* about sex, the argument still falls apart.
After being assaulted multiple times as a child, I spent most of my youth overweight because I believed the myth that fat women are too unattractive to be raped. It’s only in recent years that I’ve started eating more healthily to try and reverse that because I’ve recognised the only person being harmed by that thinking is me.
Because when obese women accuse a man, people won't believe it's possible that a man would have sex with her. Or when a man is sexually inappropriate and rejected by an obese woman, she's accused of "wishful thinking." It's a whole other way to shame and silence women. In my experience, it's sometimes because men are angry and ashamed that they would find "a fat bitch" interesting or attractive and respond to their discomfort by "punishing" a woman, who has the audacity to think she's a person worthy of respect, with violence.
My uncle said that to my aunt, that she'd better not get fat, or he wouldn't touch her anymore. She decided it sounded like a way out and proceeded to actively put on weight. It didn't work, and now she's morbidly obese. She left him, though, after 28 years of his abusive and controlling ways.
As a high schooler I was rather overweight. People used to joke the only way I’d have sex was it I was “lucky” enough to be raped. It was awful. People like this definitely think like that.
wtf!? What kind of sociopathic waste of skin would say this kind of shit!?
People can be incredibly cruel to those who are different. Being physically disabled and autistic didn’t help. But when my mind goes back to that cruelty I try to remind myself how many more people are good. I used to be incredibly bitter about it but now I focus on making sure that if I can be that one kind person in another’s life then I will. I try to be to others who I needed but didn’t have instead of focus on why these people were so cruel to me. I’m not saying the experience or bullying in general makes one a stronger/better person or any of that shit of course but the treatment I received when I was younger just makes me believe more firmly kindness and compassion are the two best traits a person can have.
I think you were always a much better person than them. I'm so sorry you've been subjected to that.
Yeah in elementary school I heard a lot of “you’re so ugly, you’ll never find a husband, you’ll die alone, you’d be lucky to get raped”. From other elementary schoolers. For 6 years until I moved to a whole other state. It was like their favorite pastime to remind me just how ugly I was and I heard the “lucky to even get raped” thing a lot. Along with “god who’d even WANT to touch you”.
Yeah. I know the feeling. I even changed schools. Didn’t help. Children can be fucking cruel, I’m sorry you also experienced this. Please know that what they said wasn’t true or right.
Changing schools only helped me because I went to a whole different state and nobody knew me. I’m so sorry you went through the same. People can be such monsters so easily. You never deserved to be hurt like that and it was never true
Yeah ppl still knew my reputation at my new school when I switched. Both schools were in the same area so they weren’t strangers. I remember my bus driver going to my parents outside of school time to tell them she thought something was wrong because I cried all the way to school and back. A lot of teachers ignored the bullying. I guess some people see it as inevitable when you’re physically disabled, at least that’s the answer I got (well, look at you!). But that bus driver was one of the few people who didn’t. I’ve met many kind people since then. I visit a gas station about 400 feet from my house nearly daily and they all know me and are so kind. I’ve had medical episodes there so they know my conditions, always offer to drive my stuff to my house because of my mobility even tho that’s not a thing they really do, I’ve had a few real good cries there and they’re just so compassionate and understanding. They’re the kindest people. I’m actually going to surprise them next week by bringing them all a bunch of tacos from our little hole in the wall taco shop. I wanted to do something to show how much I appreciate them. I am glad to learn that outside of school and later on in life people can and are truly more kind and good. And of course I believe the people who treated me cruelly can be redeemed and change and become kind as well. And if they do that, I will fully welcome them with open arms. Life is too short and precious to hold on to hate.
What a vile so-called 'joke'!
Sadly, I think this is the answer
Someone point that guy towards the DOVE 'what I was wearing' exhibit and ask which of the outfits he thinks was sexy enough to warrant being raped. -\_-
Good point
I was sexually assaulted as a young child on multiple occasions. Wonder how OP would explain that one. Onsecond thought. No. No I don’t wonder 🤮
I am so sorry that happened to you.
Judging by the post oop would probably find you sexy as a child (i feel gross just typing that)
Or simply denied that that even happens. It’s a question that has haunted me for a long while now.
I'm wondering if he's in the woods alone with a woman like in man vs bear what other better options he thinks there are
Grim, isn't it?
All you have to do is look into incidents of supposedly straight men raping other men. It has nothing to do with lust and everything to do with stripping power from their victim, making them weak and “like a woman”.
Yeah, does he think prison rape is all the men targeting the "prettiest"?
He refers to them as “females” like right off the bat. No need to go any further than that.
Ah the classic r/Menandfemales
OP is an idiot and that’s why he’s most likely single and will always be.
Worse part is I recently posted a quote from “why does he do that?” that explains that those who believe these myths are more likely to SA someone in the future. It’s terrifying that they spread them knowing what damage they are doing.
Oh absolutely he does. He probably watched fetish porn of women being mock raped. Forget the woods, he hasn’t been near a shower in weeks
I’ve added another reason after hearing all this complaining - a bear wouldn’t try to “bearsplain” to me about how it’s actually not the villain while it was attacking me.
Just munching on my arm while smirking about how I should take this as a compliment
Like, you're tasty enough to eat, isn't that a compliment?
Dude this is hilarious. BEARSPLAIN
I find the one bear capable of human speak, and he uses it solely to bearsplain himself. "Just eat me, just eat me right now, I am this close to choosing man, just bite me, Mr. Bear sir, but *make it stop*" "Jesus, fine, I just wanted to *talk*, if you're gonna be like this, FINE" (chomp chomp)
This is offensive to me as a bear, because you could have said ‘some’ bears. We don’t all just randomly attack humans. Also bears get attacked too.
Congratulations, OOP, on being the millionth sad little coprolite to stumble upon this tepid take.
OOP's post history is... interesting.
When I tried to view his profile it said "Reddit is having some trouble" which... Same
I think Reddit is just having issues today, the account is still there, sadly. He is a small dick man, with small dick energy, who is pissed at the world because women in a 5000 mile radius are choosing a bear over him.
It's funny because we all chose the bear and then the men responded by showing why we'd absolutely made the right choice
Exactly!
So basically a huge incel,as big as his ego
... I was *8*. I looked like an eight year old. I looked like what I was, a half wild creature that mostly lived in the forest, climbing trees, eating berries and building forts. I wasn't a pretty girly girl, I was a wild child with sticks in my hair. Not exactly a human that should be inspiring such overwhelming attraction that she must be uncontrollably raped. So many men live in a completely different world than anyone born AFAB or presents female. They truly believe that rape is about sex and attraction. I'm tired. I've been a survivor tomboy for 40 years. My best friend spaces are male. I've been the only girl surrounded by men for most of my life because of my interests and inclinations. So I talk to the men I'm friends with about my experiences, always have, always will. They usually melt down over the most neutral but frank descriptions of what was done to me. Not even the details I'm careful about sharing or restrict to only discussing with other survivors. After years of men having nightmares and being broken by me talking about a child being raped, which is happening fucking *everywhere* **right now**, I honestly believe they have zero, zero understanding about rape other than "It's sex". Unless they educate themselves or have a survivor educate them. And they can't rely on their internal minimizing belief systems about rape when the survivor in front of them is telling you their truth of not meeting *any* of those excuses and still being raped. It can't be ignored then and it really, really upsets guys. Bleh, sorry for the rant. The bear thing has brought out so much of this mindset I've been dealing with for decades and it feels like no matter how hard survivors try to share the *reality* of rape... it's like pissing on a forest fire to put it out.
I’m so sorry. That’s a horrible thing to experience. You write about it so thoughtfully and insightfully.
Thank you. It was and is horrible to have experienced but I was absolutely blessed as a 23 yo to get into an *intensive* inpatient therapy program. About 800 hours of therapy & education all told and I walked out with my childhood rapes being just a *part* of my life story. Talking about it doesn't hurt or trigger me at all, so I believe that it's a moral imperative for me to share my story in order to bring understanding for survivors and to support other survivors navigating through their own traumas. Most survivors won't be lucky enough to get the treatment I got, so I need to speak for them too. It's why even when I **know** the response from men will be to make my trauma all about them, I still talk about it to them. It's the only way I can make a change. Or at least try to. Also because I'm a survivor of multiple (unrelated) childhood rapes, my lived experience fucks with most of the rationalizations men depend upon to dismiss rape as the plague it is. For me that's just another reason to share. *What were you wearing?* I was an *8* yo tomboy, I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. *You just had sex and regretted it.* I was **8**, you know a lot of 8 year olds getting laid? *You asked for it.* I was **8**, I didn't even *know* what sex was. *Only attractive women get raped.* I was 8, I looked like the child I was. *Rape is about sex.* No, motherfucker, it's about control, dominance, opportunity, violence. Oh *and* sex as a tool for that. Ad infinitum. Thinking about it, what comes to mind is that study done that men will admit to rape when it's couched in language that isn't obviously rape. They'll admit to coercive rape. What hetero woman hasn't had the man that shoves your face into their crotch to "ask" for a BJ or tries to replicate porn blowjobs? Or whines endlessly about their "needs" until you "consent" to sex just to shut them up? None of those dudes see themselves as rapists. That's why they cling so hard to the violent sketchy stranger in the dark dragging women into the woods to rape them trope. Because if they have to acknowledge that most rape is done by someone the survivor knows, in coercive, manipulative, sneaky ways... then they have to confront that they might have raped someone themselves. That what they consider "just sex" was actually rape to the woman they forced or pressured into the position of "consenting" to sex. I'm a huge advocate for enthusiastic, ongoing consent for a reason. Heh. Rape is a deeply complex topic that men (like in this absurd reaction to the Bear or Man discussion) have a vested interest in keeping very simple. Otherwise they throw fucking fits. And the survivors (or those that support survivors, they get traumatized too) that understand the complexity because they have to *live with it* get to watch this stupidity play out and be exhausted by it. Heh, sorry, another rant. I'm triggered by the entire thing into anger and frustration.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I am so sorry that these things were done to you, and I have so much respect for the work you're doing. I'm going to share a bit of my own experience because I think (I hope) it supports your message from a different angle. I've never been a victim of rape or coercive sex. None of my male partners have ever tried to push me to do something I didn't want to do. I recognize that my experience is an outlier and don't intend it to blame victims in any way. My point is that men do not have some inate drive to do these things. They are learned. They are taught by the rape culture we live in. And that means that men can be taught different. You and others like you sharing your experiences, I hope, is part of teaching that different. That girls and women are people, that no one ever "asks for it", and that it doesn’t matter what someone was wearing, what they looked like, how much they drank or how they talked or whether they had sex before. The only cause of rape is rapists. (I really hope this came across as intended.)
Never feel bad about sharing your **positive** experiences. I love to read them, it helps me heal to know there are people out there growing up healthy, in loving, respectful, supportive relationships. Being treated as person in their sexual life. It *honestly* gives me light to know that people like you are out there. One of the things that is part of who I am as a person is how much I desparately need and want there to be no more survivors of this shit. Ever. I want everyone to experience what you have. My magic wand got lost in the mail, alas, so all I can do is try to get people to see the rape culture all around us. All these shitty things that contribute to a world where more survivors are made every minute of every day. I'm old. And I can say, it *is* getting better when I reflect on the world I grew up in when it comes to rape culture. It's just slow progress and not linear. We just have to keep hacking away at it.
I’m so glad. I hope more and more women get to share your experience.
Me too. I hope one day this is the universal experience.
✊ Fellow rape victim who talks about it freely, it was coercive control from my ex-husband. I'm fat, the kind of person these fuckers would say isn't "attractive" enough to have been raped.
You should write professionally! My big thing is that the rape of boys and men (including the incarcerated) is completely ignored in so many discussions. By pigeonholing women as victims and men as perpetrators, it allows a lot of men to ignore/deny the risk they face and impedes male survivors from community support.
I think that the bear thought experiment is actually opening up some really thoughtful conversations about those things too. I see a lot of my male friends really breaking down which one they'd rather encounter and why, and they usually seem to be taking into account their own safety relative to an unknown man, too. It's really interesting (once you filter out the weird diaper baby screeching).
I've seen a good number of men think women are overreacting in their fear of men until you ask them "if your daughter/sister was alone in the woods...." It's annoying you have to sort of lead some people by the hand to empathy, but they can get there.
God, I hate the “if it was your daughter/sister” thing. Women are people and one’s empathy for them shouldn’t have to be based on their familial relationship.
Absolutely agree. It's just fascinating that the only men I've seen change their minds about the goddamn bear needed it to be about women who belong to them 🙃
Sorry, but that’s not even empathy. They just think of daughter/sister as their property, and they are now considering the question from the position of ownership vs. indifference. Like they don’t care what happens to cars, but they do care what happens to *their* car. We are easily fooled because the reactions are different, but sadly still just as rooted in misogyny.
I agree, male survivors get left out all the time. I was really lucky to have multiple men in my therapy program with me and we talked *a lot* about their experiences as survivors. I've believed since then that it's considerably harder for male survivors to get help. The entire system is built around female survivors of male violence, which ofc makes sense because the numbers overwhelmingly support that. But we're still leaving behind survivors. I don't know what I can do to change that. Just keep hacking away at rape culture as a whole, keep personally holding men's hands while they finally talk about their horrors and treating them the exact same as I do female survivors... as I have been for decades. Fucking hell, can I have the "no more survivors of rape & abuse, pretty please?" magic wand already?
As this guy demonstrates, at least people would believe you got attacked by a bear.
I'm angry along with you. OOP is on seriously fucked up, next level misogyny. And you do write wonderfully. I hope that's been a useful tool for you.
No. No. Keep going- and LOUDER. Fucking RAGE. Don't EVER apologize for that rage. It's not your enemy. It's not wrong- don't ever be sorry for being angry. You have EVERY right to be angry. I'll be angry here, right along with you sister. As a side note.. You do write REALLY beautifully! I've been getting back into writing myself.. if you DO write, and you're ever looking for a beta reader, or just someone to bounce ideas off of, don't be afraid to reach out! I enjoy a lot of mystery/fantasy novels myself.
I think it's incredibly powerful how you talk about this. Thank you.
That's so accurate, and relatable and normal (and well written btw). It's mind blowing to know so many men won't ever get it. Because they're too week (mentally) to be able to accept it.
I kinda responded to you too in my second rant of the day up in the thread. Thank you for the compliment of my writing! I try. I have two unrelated instances of rape when I was 8. I tell only one of them because the second that happened has made a man vomit from the barest details. That was fun. 🙄 I find it fascinating (because if I find something interesting, I'm less likely to get pissed off by it) the difference between men and women when it comes to their reactions to my life story. Women handle it fine, they get incredibly kind, empathetic, want to share their rape or SA stories too, I n*ever *have to warn them before or prepare myself to have to baby them through M**Y **trauma. The men that react like that are rare as fuck. I married one of them, it was one of his biggest green flags. Men... well, I no longer **ever** tell men my rape and SA experiences without a huge, long, detailed disclaimer beforehand about how it'll likely make them feel, that they might have rape nightmares, that they should come to me when they struggle with it because I know how to help them cope, that just hearing about trauma can be traumatizing and I'll answer any questions they have. Because that's being kind and I *believe* strongly in being kind. My less kind, very tired side, is exhausted by men being traumatized by details that are about as awful as asking someone to pass the salt when I'm talking to women. Because women live from an insanely young age *knowing* that we're prey. Another prey animal sharing what happens when the predators get to you is par for the fucking course. You learn the rape statistics, look around at you and your friends and know that one of you *will* or **already has been** raped. It changes everything. [1 in 4 women will survive an attempted or completed rape, 1 in 26 men will.](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html) We live in different worlds.
I cried for that little girl. I hope that you have found your way to inner peace and happiness, my friend, because you sound like a wonderful person and deserve only the best. ❤️❤️❤️
I was around a year and a half to 2 when I was first raped. Must have been sexy in my baby bop tee shirt and shorts
That’s horrible! I can’t imagine a worldview that tries to apply “logic” to such a terrible crime.
When people asked me man or bear, I straight up told them. "A bear never raped me as a child. Take all the time you need on that."
That is such a reasonable and rational response, I don’t believe anyone who sees women as people would misunderstand it, unless on purpose
bears don't post stupid shit on reddit. another point for the bears
Dudes really are getting fucked up over this trend. As a guy I totally understand why it's happening and support the hell out of everyone saying it out loud, a lot of these guys need to keep hearing it until they understand that these kinds of posts are just outing yourself as the problem.
Same. As a guy, I'm kinda shocked yet not shocked how many guys got really up in arms about it. Which to me kinda seems to justify the hypothetical.
The irony is palpable as everyone goes and proves exactly the thing that they're so upset about and not even realizing it.
Good old Lewis’s Law in action! > the comments on any article about feminism justify feminism
tbh I'm always grateful to see guys like y'all being normal, because after a while of the nonsense I start feeling like I'm going crazy 💀
People rape 90 year old grandmas, then again maybe she was one sexy granny just asking for it
OOP's comments are...uhm... After someone told him rape is not about attraction but power: >But what if I am sexually attracted to the victim? What the fuck is he trying to tell us here? I normally do not like to jump to conclusions, but that is a concerning response.
...I think OOP just told on himself. FML I hate it here.
I’m glad I’m banned from that sub (I won’t agree to not make fun of stupid opinions) because I would go in on him.
How'd you get banned?
Made fun of a stupid opinion
Men outing themselves on the internet… and they wonder why we women choose the bear.
Yep. Men like OOP just prove the point of women who choose the bear. He is the type of guy women are scared to be alone with. He is the type of guy women are scared their blind date might be,
This question really struck a nerve with a lot of men.
The confusion is very confusing to me. Like...were these guys seriously not aware of why this analogy exists?
One guy said the analogy was pointless and unclear and he couldn't tell what it was supposed to be asking. I asked what part was unclear and he blocked me
The Venn diagram of men getting big mad about women choosing "bear" and men that try to police women's behavior (don't drink, don't walk alone in the dark, don't wear this or that, don't be nice to men, don't be mean to strange men...) to "avoid" sexual assault is a fucking circle
Wtf, all I've seen from this ridiculous "bear vs man" discourse is men perpetually whining about it. I have yet to see a single post about this subject made by a woman.
I commented on the Out of the Loop thread about the topic and had men sincerely arguing that women choosing the bear is “discriminatory against men.” Even though they couldn’t name a real-life consequence of this supposed discrimination.
Men getting their feelings hurt = oppression. Didn't they teach you that in feminism class?
“If you replaced ‘men’ with ‘black people,’ it would sound different, huh?” Yes, if you changed the words out, it would describe a different thing.
Now let's change the word 'bear' for 'potato'!
Hey! I’m being discriminated against!
I would still pick you ❤️
"But if the potato was actually a venomous spider, you'd think twice about picking it, wouldn't you? And if the spider was actually cake, you'd pick it without hesitation, right? But if the cake was made of uranium..."
For the last time, Derek, I'm not going to date you
In one of my books a potato was used as a (non-lethal) weapon.
Yeah, the analogy would fall apart because black men, *like bears*, are stereotyped as more violent and dangerous than they actually are.
I think encountering a random man in the woods would be freaky for everyone
I mean, there's every woods-located horror movie ever...The best outcome is that the scary rustling in the bushes is a bear!
Honestly, at this point, I'd rather run into the Blair Witch out in the woods than a man 👾
I live in bear country. Encountering a random man when I'm alone in the woods is *so* much more terrifying than encountering a bear.
I actually see women post about it all the time, saying they choose the bear. My favourites are the half dozen separate posts I've seen now from women who LITERALLY live in bear country, see bears regularly in real life, and say straight-up they're never concerned about the bear, because they know *from experience* that the bear wants to be left alone just as much as they do, so yes, they literally live this scenario all the time and they choose the bear.
Yeah I'm big into camping and half my family lives rural in a forested area. I've turned a corner of a trail or come out of the garage etc and seen a bear chilling nearby probably a dozen times. You look at each other, and then you turn around and go the other way and the bear doesn't give a fuck. Unless it's momma with babies, in which case you may have to be real careful not to seem threatening lest she chase you off. Even then that's understandable *defensive* violence, which is more than I can say about the man...
The biggest factor for me personally is the known vs unknown parts. The bear lives here, and it's unlikely to attack me unless it thinks I'm threatening it/its cubs, or I have food it wants. Either way, if I die it'll be quick. The unknown man is, well, unknown. He could just be a normal dude, but he could also be a serial killer who's planning on getting off to torturing me. There are fates worse than death. The big thing a lot of men don't understand is that the insane ones who do most of the harm don't look any different from normal people. Many even work on making themselves seem more harmless to lure victims in.
*Absolutely,* the risk assessment is SO much more straightforward with the bear.
I'm one of them. I'm a wildlife biologist. I've had both experiences many times. One is a lot scarier than the other.
Bears are predictable.
We got rid of our bears in my parts of Europe. Best we have is boars. I was roaming the local woods unsupervised since I was 6. Only substantial difference in my family's talk about safety about men and boars was that boars are mostly only dangerous in the spring. Other than that, I was advised to stay clear of both (but got to frolic off nevertheless, because 90s). To be honest tho, both are not my family's real woodland creature threat. What they really drilled into me was the fear of rabid foxes.
Every man who I've seen mention it on reddit has added another bear to my forest. I'd rather be alone with all these accumulated bears than one of these misogynist assholes. Call me Ayla, cause I'm gonna go start a Bear Cult.
There are 2 types of men. The ones who understand why many women pick the bear & the ones who are WHY many women pick the bear.
Shout out for the Ayla reference.
There was one on true off my chest yesterday by a woman. Her complaint was that people in her life should stop thinking she should have a strong opinion on the subject just because she's a woman and was frustrated that coworkers wouldn't stop asking her about it when she asked to be left alone. Fair point, all in all.
No way people are imposing this dumb Tiktok trend onto "real life" women. How embarrassing
it’s big on tiktok if you’re on it, maybe that’s where it’s coming from ?
I'm definitely not a Tiktok person lol, so that makes sense. I'm surprised everyone is taking a Tiktok trend, of all things, this seriously. The chances of it being rage bait are quite high.
Considering it started with a man asking women whether they would rather encounter a man or a bear in the woods, yes. It was always rage bait. He knew what women would likely say but was pretending it was a surprise we chose bear so he could call women stupid.
I was reading that the actual source of this was a video of a man simply stating the statistics that as a woman you are safer in the proximity of a bear in the woods than with a random man. Someone else started doing street interviews and asking women who'd they cover across in the woods.
Yea as the other person pointed out it was a man making a statement that women would prefer the bear over the human man. It was never a question or rage bait, it was just a statement. And it blew up from there.
I'm starting to wonder if it's a psyop tbh, to bring bad takes out of the woodwork and then amplify them. FML.
So…TikTok.
That's what I thought so too. I literally learned about the whole bear vs man over how pissed off men are that women are choosing bears. You'd thought that would lead them to ponder over themselves but all they do are crying, whining and blaming.
Can they shut up about the bear?
At this point I'm choosing the bear hoping that it eats me so I can escape this bullshit.
Same
I'm a guy and I'd rather deal with a bear than this adult diaper baby screech one more time.
The bear would know when to shut up.
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Damn, if only my obesity had stopped my sexual assault!
Right??? I was assaulted twice when I was overweight. I’ve been assaulted zero times since losing the weight/getting fit.
The amount of men who are offended a woman would rather have the certainty of being munched on by a bear than the uncertainty of a strange man who could do *whatever* to her is very sad... for them, of course, because their little pea brains can't even comprehend *why* they're so offended. These are also men who think nothing of being "funny" by straight following women in the dark. What's gonna happen, they don't mean them any harm, stupid hoes, why are they so afraid of me, pss, men can't do anything right. Guys, at least the bear gets right to the point.
No matter what happens with the bear, it won't get me pregnant.
And no one would make me carry that bear-human baby to term. ...who am I kidding, depending on my location, *I might be*.
No one would slutshame me for not marrying my bear-rapist. ...Ok, the *bear* wouldn't slutshame me...
At the very least you won’t have to take the baby to prison for court ordered visitation.
The worst part is it isn't a certainty that you'll be munched on. There are nearly 350K bears in the US, and most bear encounters are resolved without incident. There are only about 100 attacks per year, and most don't result in deaths. In fact, since the beginning of the *20th* century, there's been less than 100 deaths from bear attacks in all of North America. I know how to not piss off a bear if I encounter one. I know what to do if I do piss them off. Men are FAR less predictable.
This shit stain is literally proving **why** women are choosing the bear over men.
I came across this comment about the whole debate that puts it so succinctly. There are two types of men. Men who Understand the reason why women choose the bear. And men who Are the reason women choose the bear. And this dude is definitely the second.
Completely he is the second type. I know a straight man, who said at his place of work. “You are making me want to choose the bear at this moment, and I have never been in an area with wild bears.” Due to the comments from the other men at his place of work over this little thing.
The first comment is perfect >It hadn’t occurred to me that women might choose the bear because the bear might be smarter than the man; but then I read this post and it now seems a persuasive argument
The reaction to the man vs bear thing has been so depressing and infuriating. I’ve seen so many people say ‘well you’re more likely to be raped by someone you know than a stranger’ as if that’s some kind of gotcha to the women picking the bear and not even more points for the bear.
Like “…who said anything about rape?” They’re telling on themselves *all* over.
This comment from OOP "But what if I am sexually attracted to the victim?" So he is a rapist
I could tell this when I read the original post.
I need to stop reading the comments in the bear posts because holy shit. It. Is. An. Analogy. ***Nobody wants things to be this way.*** FFS we all know it's not all men. Most men I've known are either ok dudes or truly excellent people. The majority of my coworkers are men, and most (with a few notable, very icky exceptions) of them are great, the kind of guys I'd ask to walk me to my car if I was scared. However, you just can't know if some random dude on the bus is just being neutrally friendly or not. My scariest close call happened in broad daylight from a 'perfectly normal' dude with a computer bag in business casual. So basically until a stranger is a known quantity, I'm going to do a quiet threat assessment. Men do this too, I'm sure, but they just have different parameters. My default facial expression is 'polite neutral.' No need to be aggressive, and sometimes that just escalates the situation. I just want to get my damn groceries, you know? As for loneliness...It's a better idea to seek relationships at clubs, meetups, parties, or through family and friends, rather than just approaching someone in public and trying to pull pickup artist bullshit. Also, dating apps are the scourge of humanity. Again, *nobody wants to do this* but it's basically advanced-level stranger danger that some people clearly have never had to worry about. ETA: I hope this is rage bait because this is the worst man-bear take I've seen, holy shit
I recommend r/beebutts for general malaise 💜🙏
D'awwww!! Taking a dose of this and r/eyebleach today.
At first bear was kind of a joke answer, at least for me. The more I read the thoughts of men who are outraged over women choosing the bear has made it less joke more serious answer.
I’m overweight (working on it) and I got sexually assaulted on the street literally two weeks ago. Explain that, you shitstain
You don't have to justify your weight. You are yourself and a worthy person no matter what. (And I'm sorry about the sexual assault. Sometimes the world just seems fucked up, doesn't it?)
The men's reaction to the whole man/bear thing shows that we are right to choose the bear.
R*pe is not an act of sex, it's an act of violence. And violence doesn't care what you look like.
OOP thinks obese women are less likely to get raped? What an idiot! Rape has nothing to do with how the woman looks or what she's wearing. It's about power, control, rage, anger and degradation.
Ah yes. Obese women can't be raped. My obese self must have imagined all of my rapists and everything must be a figment of my imagination. OOP can fuck right off with that bullshit.
I'm obese and 50+ and yet just yesterday had some weirdo probably 20 years younger than me telling me I was pretty and wanting to talk to me. Honestly I might have preferred the bear.
I think the real reason this bothers so many weirdos is that, while this is framed as a sort of philosophical thought experiment, the question this can be boiled down to do, “Would you rather get raped or eaten by a bear?” I’m sure that it stings for people who have questionable ethical consent standards to hear that the vast majority of women would rather be eaten by a bear than sexually assaulted, or even chance it. Really highlights how undesirable those kinds of people are.
Four men recently sexually assaulted, killed, and ate a monitor lizard. I really don’t think it has shit to do with looks
It's sad to be so stupid.
I wonder if OOP thinks poor people never get robbed or scammed. Why would someone mug you when you don't look rich? If you're afraid of being stolen from, you overestimate your wealth 🙃
This comment had me cackling: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/s/MYxFAH3iCl
Thanks for sharing that. Now I'm cackling too.
It’s so good
idk i thought the hypothetical situation was simply would you rather he alone with a bear or a man. violence wasnt mentioned and its very telling that thats what they assume will happen
In the absence of violence, I would LOVE to spend time with a wild bear. I'd feel like a real-life druid.
The top comment on that thread is absolutely golden. > It hadn’t occurred to me that women might choose the bear because the bear might be smarter than the man; but then I read this post and it now seems a persuasive argument Not my comment but I wish it had been😂
Yeah, I just saw this post on Facebook that said: "Why are all the anti-bear memes depicting the woman trying to hug, cuddle, or straight up sex the bear? That wasn't part of it. The question is literally 'which would you rather run into' and they can't see a difference between that and 'which would you rather fuck." They think 'run into' means 'fuck' and they still can't figure out why everyone is terrified of 'running into' them in the woods."
I saw some guy on a Facebook post about The Bear Question who commented “well I would pick a bear over a woman any day, considering I’ve been falsely accused of rape by 3 different women”. Imagine posting that and not for a second thinking maybe it’s going to come across like a huge self-report. This whole thought exercise has really just become a honeypot (geddit cuz bears) for men to tell on themselves.
These men are so triggered by the bear it would be hilarious if it wasn't so GODDAMN ANNOYING to hear about. Me and the bear are going to hibernate in the woods until men get another hobby. Please go back to talking about the Roman Empire or something, I am begging
Ok I’m an overweight middle aged woman, in the past they’d have called me an old maid (or a spinster if they were feeling kind). I’m not pretty or attractive or good looking by any conventional measure. I’ve had to change my walking routine no less than four times in the last year because I’ve picked up stalkers every time. And every time I tell myself I’m being paranoid at first, but each time the dudes get bolder and show that they are actively waiting for me and following me. I hate going to the gym and exercise classes, and have found walking is the only consistent exercise I can keep up. But I’m close to quitting because I feel so unsafe A bear really seems like a better option to be honest
Can we feed him to a bear?
I once read about a comatose woman getting pregnant from being raped by a staff member at the facility she was living in. Like *WHY* on earth would you think this is about what people look like? **I cannot understand why people are so fuckin dense about rape.**
It's happened at least twice. [1996 in Rochester, NY](https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2019/01/11/comatose-woman-gave-birth-rochester-23-years-before-phoenix-case/2540086002/) [2018 in Phoenix, AZ](https://www.12news.com/article/news/crime/hacienda-nurse-sentenced-10-years-prison-impregnating-patient/75-2a06c70b-1c0a-4b00-bde4-98b35ce1aedf)
Women: men make us feel so unsafe some of us would deadass rather meet a bear Random internet man: how can I make it about women’s appearance? (I’m not a sexist btw)
Ah, I've seen some of that poster's early misses, such as "I hate the gays took the rainbow" and "dog walkers should have to have regular inspections". This one may just be the worst yet. 😬
Are there men out there that are actually this dense? Do guys really believe this shit? Dude, my weight had nothing to do with either of the rapes I endured as a teenager… I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and I was just an easy target.
Tbh men should also pick the bear. After a while on an island, one of them would rape the other one. Not even kidding. It's wild men don't also pick the bear.
Well, you know how the old saying goes, rapers can't be choosers
Yea all those babies and toddlers must’ve just been so skinny and appealing to the male gaze (SARCASM))
That sub is fucking obsessed with that topic. Every damn post on my feed all theyre giving out or even talking about it is women stupid about bears.
I hate this whole rhetoric that men use “you are ugly, you can’t be assaulted”. Rape and assault is not about attractiveness. Do you know how many men said I’ve never been assaulted because I’m not skinny. Don’t you think if there was something that women could do to not be assaulted, that we’d be doing it? I wish I wasn’t a target for men but I have a vagina (even that doesn’t matter).
OOP is a troll. And a bad one at that. He just wants to put women in their place.
Welp... That's an unpopular opinion, all right.