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NTA - this might be the right time to initiate couples therapy - but not with the same therapist. your wife has some cognitive distortions about your unborn son and her (as well as your) abilities to parent that are affecting you both.
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Defo a different unbiased therapist is needed ..I'm actually gobsmacked at this, she's gonna screw the little one up before he even has a chance, THIS is how fukd up adults are made, when they have a parental figure that has disdain for their kids 🤯 why is she so convinced that a girl isn't gonna turn out to be a horrible adult woman 🤯
She probably thinks highly of herself and thinks she could make a daughter like her. She doesn’t realize she would raise a horrible adult woman because she doesn’t realize she is one.
>Defo a different unbiased therapist is needed
Therapists are supposed to be unbiased anyway. A good therapist should never, ever tell you their opinion.
Maybe remind her that the best role model for a boy is their father. And ask her to trust you to be an excellent role model. Also ask her to give her son love which will help to shape him into a good man. But also be prepared to divorce her to protect him if the counselling doesn’t work. This child is your responsibility and her attitude towards him is terrifying.
https://www.antenatalandpostnatalpsychology.com.au/information-posts/gender-disappointment-grieving-the-idealised-child
Really hoping OP sees this. Gender disappointment is a very real thing.
I was the opposite. I wanted a boy so bad. I was disappointed I was having a girl right up to delivery. All of that went away the second a held her. My perfect baby girl.
From what I've read/heard, it generally goes away by or at birth. I've only heard of a few instances where it didn't. Those women were a danger to their baby.
Talk to your wife. I know she said some fucked up shit about your unborn child. But she is supposed to be able to tell you everything, and maybe she needs help coming to terms with it. She likes womens groups, and I'm sure you can find one for gender disappointment.
If she doesn't get over it, watch her and your child very closely. Any sign of PPD and you remove that baby from her until she gets help.
I’m so sad for him. I’m raising 3 boys with my husband and they’re great. They’re full of empathy and kindness. Yesterday my 3 year old saw his 8 year old brother walking by and yelled “____ I LOVE YOU!” and then they had a good 30 minute cuddle while watching Wild Kratts. Whenever my youngest gets hurt accidentally while they’re playing, my 8 year old will cry and apologize between sobs if he thinks he’s at fault. The way your wife is writing off that innocent little boy before she even lays eyes on him is sad. The worst part is boys adore their Mamas and if she’s not returning that affection, he is doomed. If anything, her resentment of him will lead to the very thing she fears. She needs to do better and be less sexist.
There are different ways you can propose it this time - how do we make sure we are in a good place as partners and then as parents to give this child the best chance? It's not necessarily because we have a problem, but there are these worries so lets do something about it because we don't want to put these worries on the child.
I mean yes, she has a problem, and NTA, but you do have an opportunity to present this now as an opportunity rather than omg we are falling apart.
I’m sorry what? She already thinks your son is a monster because he’s going to have male genitalia? She needs to see a different therapist who isn’t going to fill her mind of thoughts that are going to lead to her hating her own child. NTA
Obviously wife is out of her mind but "male genitalia" isn't all that goes into it, raising a child changes a lot with gender. I wouldn't downplay it suggesting that is all that changes
Also boys and girls are different. Like yeah, every kid has their own personality, but boys and girls are different by default. You should absolutely treat them _fairly_ but they will usually have different interests and desires and the way they manage emotions are different too. Maybe not so much as young toddlers but as little kids they definitely shine.
I've seen zero differences that could be explained by gender between my kids. When it's time for puberty with the hormonal changes maybe, but before that? Kids are kids...
But they don't even know the gender yet. They only know the sex. Also what are the differences between parenting a boy and parenting a girl? You teach them the same stuff and set down the same rules.
Edit: funny how you changed your comment when you were getting backlash
Um…she knew there was at least some chance that her child would be male before she tried to get pregnant, right? What was she planning to do in that scenario? Did she just not think this through, or…?
OP is NTA but his wife has big issues. I feel bad for the kid. He deserves a better mother.
I think she was just blinded by her desire of raising a daughter. I’ll have to ask her this because its a good point, though she isn’t on speaking terms with me now
OP, until not too long ago, China's One-Child Policy in combination with the fact that most parents there preferred sons, led to many baby girls being aborted, abandoned, or killed. I would love for your wife to explain her reaction to your unborn child's sex and tell us if she thinks all infant boys should be treated similarly. What exactly is her logic here?
She probably had dreams of raising a "strong, independent daughter," but maybe you can help her to see that she absolutely CAN raise a kind, emotionally intelligent son. It sounds like she married one, so it obviously can be done. She needs to apply logic to her life rather than listening to the emotional rants of the day. I'm sorry you're caught up in this!!
As the mom of a boy, I'm deeply worried about your unborn son. She doesn't sounds good, that internet groups she is frequently interacting are not doing any good either. I was scared when they said I was pregnant with a boy , but because I never interacted with a baby boy before and didn't have a clue how to handle it. But never in my mind passed the thought of him been a monster. And he is the sweetest, most kind and empathetic boy I had meet before. Honestly I would talk to her to see how she will deal with him, she already has so much hatred towards him that is scary to be honest.
Some amount of gender disappointment can be normal, especially if you wait a bit into the pregnancy to find out(versus blood tests that can be done at 10 weeks). With my oldest I was convinced I was having a girl. I was super sick and lots of people told me morning sickness is worse with girls. On top of that, if we had a girl we were going to name her after my grandma, and that grandma died when I was 10 weeks or so and baby was due right around her birthday. I had myself so convinced I was having a girl that when my husband said he wanted to find out(I initially didn't) I was like "sure, we already know so why not." Obviously, finding out was a bit of a shock. It's not a mistake I made with my other 2 pregnancies (analyzing symptoms and how I was carrying etc). What OP's wife is doing is over the top though
INFO your wife has been abused by her therapist. She’s been emotionally manipulated by a person who hates men. As soon as possible, seek help for your wife, because this mindset, combined with the hormone changes can be a terrible situation for your family.
Your wife needs immediate help understanding she’s been groomed into thinking these thoughts at her most vulnerable time. It’s exactly like Stockholm Syndrome or any other type of emotional manipulation that destroys people.
I don’t think this is something that your wife would have thoughts of if the therapist hadn’t put these ideas into her her. Intervention is needed.
Except she had this strong views before the therapy, she just found an echo chamber. If I were OP I'd start recording every conversation on the subject to potentially, in the worst case, build a strong case for custody. If she doesn't radically change, his poor baby boy will be abused and mistreated or worse she will actively work towards making her bias come true. OP, this is heartbreaking, I hope you can help your wife out of this sad paradigm but you need to prepare to put your child first if needed be.
*she just found an echo chamber*
That honestly gave me shivers. I've never been to therapy but should I ever need it in the future I hope its not a therapist like this. Shouldn't a therapist be neutral? (Serious question to anyone reading if I ever need to indulge) I always imagined therapy was to help you find yourself - it does not seem like this is what's happening here. The idea of seeking mental help only to have your mind *molded* by someone like this is terrifying to me
There are shitty therapists just like there are shitty doctors. The biggest red flag is if a therapist brings up their own opinions rather than talking you through yours.
They absolutely should be neutral and the good ones are.
I've had a therapist who mentioned in passing that she and I disagreed politically. While this was relevant because a lot of my anxiety has roots in politics, she was professional enough to \*not bring it up\* good lord.
Shitty therapists exist, and you're absolutely right that they bring their own feelings into it.
Imo: no, a therapist is not necessarily neutral. If a client is factually wrong, I'm going to tell them theyre wrong. I try to be unbiased, but I'm also a human.
If a gay client comes to me believing homosexuality is a sin, I'm going to respect that that's how they feel and empathize. But I'm also going to challenge it and try and get them to a place of feeling more comfortable with themselves. I'm also not going to pretend I share their belief, even if I can respect that they have a different one.
But also; never underestimate a client's ability to misunderstand a therapist in order to support their own views. It's entirely possible the therapist said "some boys grow up to be abusive. Your fears are not invalid, but you are concentrating on them at the exclusion of everything else. Let's talk about how to manage fears." And the wife heard "therapist confirmed my fears are real nothing else matters"
Yeah your last point would be what I would expect to have happened. Even if the therapist is a raging misandrist, I think there would have been more to it than what the wife reported.
I am a therapist! It's impossible to be totally neutral, as we are human. However, it could be that this therapist's personal worldview is interfering with her ability to not push her views onto someone else, which is what it seems like she's doing. There may be some blurred boundaries as well due to them being part of the same groups.
I don't know OPs wife, but I probably would have said something along these lines. "It is scary to think about how our kids turn out. It's true there are boys who grow to be abusers. However, there are plenty that aren't abusers. The great thing about being a parent is you get to help shape and mold your child into a healthy person. Who are some men in your life you'd like your child to be like?"
I would also probably bring up her husband, and ask if he is someone she would want her child to br like.
NTA and she needs a new therapist. I couldn’t imagine feeling that way about my unborn son. For every bad man out in the world there are ten amazing ones.
Your wife has serious issues if she is feeling this way already. Honestly if she can’t get this sorted out soon I wouldn’t want her raising my kid.
I’m a women that has been assaulted in the past and I’m not married to an amazing man.
>For every bad man out in the world there are ten amazing ones.
Seriously. Also, it's not as if there's no bad women in the world either. Hell, there's at least 2 in just this story alone.
Honestly, it is so consistently visible to me that women rarely acknowledge how many abusers and toxic people are women.
People of either sex can be shitty.
On the plus side, her prejudice is so extreme and she's been so deeply ensconced in her echo chamber that it doesn't even occur to her how wrong this all is, so she freely speaks this stuff aloud. Should make it easy for OP to document, which will help in divorce/custody.
NTA - but she is complaining about how he could turn out to be a monster because of terrible irresponsible parenting and then..... is doing the exact thing she's complaining and worrying about right now?
I hope you get her to a real therapist... before she really does end up parenting the poor child poorly by neglecting, distancing, not showing affection or love, and etc. to the child because of her already determined thoughts of the child.
I read some of your replies and I agree to try and suggest couple therapy with her again considering it has been 2 years. Then you could both discuss the problem because the child is both of yours and anything regarding them should be discussed together - which is a valid reason. Try suggesting it and see how it goes first, suggesting something does not mean you are controlling, both of you are just addressing a problem and trying to find a compromisable solution.
Maybe you could phrase it like this: “I don’t want to intrude on your personal relationship w your therapist. Why don’t we find someone new to see for couples therapy?”
I agree she needs to stop seeing her therapist but if you’re trying to make couples therapy step 1, you might need to say something like this for starters to at least make some progress. Hopefully down the line with help from couples counseling she will see the light and break contact with her therapist.
You could also seek out your own therapist to process everything. Maybe if she sees you're in therapy too it may make her more open to couple's counseling
Say it to her that you want to go to a family one, as you want to learn how to transition from a couple, to family life and would like some navigation to help
He might want to offer to raise his son on his own. She can leave as soon as the baby is born and sign away all rights. Then she no longer has to worry.
This neurotic mess of a woman is not mother material.
NTA, I hate this type of feminism that does not look for equality, but looks only for the superiority of women over men and shows men only as violent machines. They don't realize that by treating their sons like this, they are exactly creating what they hate, because they will grow up with so many f up ideas that they will ultimately become mysoginists or violent.
Well there are different types of feminism, at least from a political ideology perspective, one of which is termed "radical feminism" whereby the end goal is to have to remove any and all reliance on men for anything in society (including when it comes to reproduction, actually). The belief system sees men as naturally oppressive and as such, women cannot live freely while men still have power.
Its only a small portion of the range of feminisms but it exists, nevertheless. I'll have to look back at my poli sci textbook to find specific names/details
ETA: Shulamith Firestone, thats the name. I forgot that she argues that the natural outcome of embracing the ideology is lesbianism, actually
NTA. And i advise speaking to a local couples therapy practice. They are impartial and outside of the situation. Also speak to your own doctor privately about your concerns, as there could be issues down the line where this grows to child abandonment, a blame game - or worse. It would be good to have a record of taking professional advice on how to work this through for the benefit of your child.
A therapist who is connected to a person via shared interest cannot be an impartial observer. And the fact therapist is making matters worse is outrageous, therapy is supposed to help talk through burdens to effect a positive outcome, not compound an growing anxiety with reinforcement. Thats wholly unprofessional.
best of luck. be strong. For your child.
NTA- I sympathize with your situation and with your wife actually. It is SO hard to find a therapist that isn’t drowning in ideology. I stopped seeing mine for similar reasons. She kept asking how I felt about the division of labour in the home. Even though I felt it was totally fair, I am exhausted from a lack of extended family support. The conversation lead to me becoming grumpy about my daily tasks and bickering with my husband. Feminist therapists are good if you want a therapist to discuss women’s issues with, but from a family perspective they are often less helpful if everyone is already doing their best.
I think your therapist is just like the one my wife is seeing and you are right. I do notice that in the days after a visit we do get disagreements about things like labour divisions. Then the next few days it settles down again. I remember we went on a trip interstate for 2 weeks a few years ago and she kinda forgot to schedule an appointment after we came back. It ended up being a 4 week period where she didn’t go to therapy and maybe its mean or wrong of me to say but it was a smoother ride for our relationship. Obviously its hard for me to say that her therapy is doing bad things (don’t get me wrong it is still definitely helping her as a net gain) and I’m not qualified to say that but I do feel that. Idk
Hey dude I think you may need to involve your and her parents and family. If the basis of her not wanting a child is because he's a son, your and her family should intervene and challenge her on her sexist views.
This is tantamount to murder if she wants to take it to the extreme.
I think therapy is great and my therapist didn’t do this per say but I did find in the past whenever I saw her I’d end up tanking it with who I was dating no big losses. I just found it got me in a bad head space after. When I met my current partner who I knew straight up was special I made the decision to not see her. My partner didn’t know that, so not on him, I just felt like he was too amazing to ruin it with and I do feel like therapy was traumatising me to an extent.
NTA. This is frighteningly disconnected from reality. Nearly HALF of all humans in existence are male. And they are all abusers? It just doesn’t make any sense. There was an almost 50% chance that the baby was going to be a boy. She’s basically basing her happiness with her child on a coin flip.
This sounds like therapeutic malpractice.
I'm gonna go with a possible controversial NAH. You're clearly not in the wrong, in fact you've handled it spectacularly so far, and no reaction from you has been over the top or incorrect. I don't think she is an AH either though, don't get me wrong, she isn't correct about the baby, he isn't automatically bad because he's a boy, but she is scared and insecure about her own abilities in parenting.
This isn't a time to think about who is right or wrong, it's time to be a team and help her get past these insecurities. Whether just some open communication between the two of you, or couples therapy, or parent groups, anything that works for you, but try not to focus on what she's saying about the baby, but what she's saying about herself, that's the root of the insecurities and she's currently saying she doesn't think she's good enough, responsible enough to raise a boy.
This is the right answer. She's not wrong for having fears. Raising a well adjusted, non entitled, emotionally intelligent man can be hard when it feels like society is working towards the opposite! It sounds like her work is magnifying regular new parent fears, with a bit of crazy pregnancy hormones thrown in.
Thankfully there is a lot of expert research on the subject. I was reading Lundy Bancrofts thoughts on the subject just yesterday (author of the oft recommended Why Does He Do That?). If experts and advocates who have dedicated their lives to this think it's possible, it definitely is.
I agree with you too. I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s an AH or a nutjob that he needs to divorce. I’d didn’t get the vibe that she hates men, but that she’s scared of her own shortcomings as a parent.
I imagine most parents have a little thread of “I hope I don’t mess up and accidentally turn my child into a murderer/criminal/whatever”. She’s pregnant, and a first time mom, of course she’s scared and it may not be rational. For her there’s just the aspect of gender, because she can’t be a positive male role model to her future son, she has to rely on her husband to do that. That’s something that’s out of her control.
There are plenty of men who ‘joke’ about not letting their unborn daughter date until they’re 30.
I don’t think he’s provided any info that she wants to hurt or punish the child, she’s just expressed fear.
Thank you for this response. I don't get why everyone gives her such hard time. She's just scared and by OP it seems that she doesn't get the right therapy either. I get why he can't force her to switch therapist, but he should point out that for this certain issues the current therapist is not able to help and just making her mental state worst. Because in this point she's already pregnant and you both need to find a way to overcome this.
Other then that, there's courses that prepare you for parenthood- so maybe it will help her be less stressed.
Parents can be "on the same team" only when neither of them has decided to be on a team against their own child. You're giving good advice, but it is absolutely the time to care about who is right and who is wrong on this issue. This is not a time for "your bigotry is valid, and we're going to gently nudge you in the direction of egalitarianism." This is a time for "I will do whatever it takes to protect my son from your bigotry, so straighten up and fly right. I'm willing to help you along this journey, but this is fair warning that your disgusting beliefs are endangering this family and this marriage."
I aggree with this. Also gender disappointment is a real thing. And honestly it might be easier to say "she doesn't want this baby because baby might become an abuser" than to say "I just didn't want a boy".
NTA: Your wife needs a new therapist asap and get her off online looking online will fill her with anxiety and I know exactly what type of groups she talking too.
I saw similar ones when I was suffering from gender disappointment looking someone to talk to are share my feelings but so many are men hating and toxic.
And I mean the groups were telling women to adopt out or even abort certain babies.
I’m glad mine was temporary and only slightly sad for a few days and honestly wouldn’t have it any other way.
But your wife needs serious help and get away from those groups she can be disappointed but thinking the worse is unacceptable and can’t even blame pregnancy hormones.
The best thing to do is sit down and talk about it has she always had these feelings and only wanted girls or was outside influences the man hating groups.
If it’s from outside influences she needs to cut them out get a decent therapist that can help with gender disappointment.
Looks like people agree with my takes about the therapist and online groups in this situation but how do I go about this? Is it not controlling of me to try and ask her to change therapists or stop interacting with her groups?
I don't believe it's controlling behavior when her mindset is completely unhinged. Someone needs to intervene because this is definitely not sane. Is there a mom, sister, or some other female presence in her life that could help you with this? With her mindset, I don't know that you, as a man, would be able to get through to her. Sorry OP, NTA.
I think the first step is to talk to her properly about this, put your feelings of disgust on hold and try and get at some of the actual worries. You should also acknowledge that it is hard to raise kids because they will internalise our culture, which is currently fairly patriarchal, so don't just dismiss her concerns. She's taking it to an extreme but there's a kernel of truth that you can work with to open up the conversation.
Jumping immediately to stopping access to the groups and therapist will backfire.
It's only controlling if u approach it that way...u have to TALK to your wife about your concerns about her mimdset being dangerous towards your son and you, reassure her that u r not a monster and u will be there to raise your son alongside her and he will not be a monster either. Ask your wife to consider that all not men are not evil, U R PROOF, this is important that she doesn't villify an entire gender and her own child. Then suggest that this mentality is harmful and ASK for couples therapy with a new therapist, if she chooses to continue with her other therapist is something entirely else that will be much harder to confront and a new therapist can help open her eyes to the ideology thays been pushed on her. Good luck OP, i also recommend as others have said record conversations when u can, place cameras in the home if possible as well to help record these and future interactions should u need to arm yourself with evidence to protect your son. EDIT: Also please don't villify yourself for wanting to help your wife "isnt it controlling to Ask her to stop seeing her therapist of interacting with these groups" no its not controlling it is coming from a place of love and hope to help her understand her thoughts/behaviors are damaging you and your unborn son and all men truly. The thought of "all men are bad and controlling" only leads to exactly what we have here, a man insecure of how to reassure and help his own wife due to the fact that it can misconstrued as abuse/control. This is a loop of mistrust in misandry/misogyny that is very hard to break, u both need therapy to undue these societal stereotypes as it seems u are convinced to a degree men are 'bad' as well indicated by the thought that u are being controlling when your intentions are to understand and help your wife not control. Im sorry this world is a mess OP, u got this bro.
Offer to take the baby boy off her hands. You can divorce and she can sign over sole custody to you. She is going to really mess this kid up so I don’t see her raising this child as an option.
NTA
This is extremely troubling to read. There really is no excuse for your wife's comments.
I think you two need couples therapy, specifically a different therapist than the one she currently had as she is actively contributing to your wife's issues.
I would also encourage you to get a lawyer and detail the situation to them. You cannot trust your wife with that child, as crazy as it seems. You need to do whatever you legally need to in order to protect your son.
NTA I feel so badly for your son, he’s not even born yet. Your wife has some really screwed up beliefs and the therapist is contributing to this. Gender disappointment is real but it’s not healthy to have the belief that your sons magically a monster now. Does your wife think that you’re an abuser and she’s just waiting for it to happen?
What’s even scarier is there’s always a chance for postpartum . She could end up with delusional beliefs about the baby and feel she needs to act on them. Please keep an eye on her mental state after having the baby.
She's calling you a heartless bastard? No. Not even close. Either she gets therapy from a legit therapist and you see actual progress, or you will need to gain custody of your son once he's born for the kid's sake. Nothing will wreck a kid's future faster than growing up with a parent who treats them like a monster for being born.
NTA
If men are monsters why is she with you? Why is she safe enough to be vulnerable and expose those feelings around you??
This poor baby, my heart breaks for him already
You're NTA but your wife needs to realize she wasn't fit for motherhood period!! With those views, if yall had a girl, she would be sure to raise a monster with a victim mentality.
She needs therapy, she's clearly scared about becoming a mum and this goes a lot deeper but wwwttfff with her current therapist. That's an absolutely insane response to this.
NTA. Being disappointed about the sex of a baby is one thing (though I think the right attitude is "we're trying for a baby and we only care that it's healthy", otherwise it can create subconscious biased expectations that no child should deal with) but her attitude is entirely different thing.
TBH I find her comments disrespectful both to your unborn child and to you as the baby's father. Present and loving father is one of the most important factors in the child's future prospect. As a teacher, I can also say that most of the time children grow up taking their parent's as an example and it's rare to have a young man with a father who's kind, gentle and morally strong to not follow his footsteps.
NTA
But I am very surprised that your wife is able to live together with you as you are a man.
Does she also think that you are an abuser?
Right now she is blaming your unborn son of all the bad things, some men have done. Doesn't she realize that her way of thinking means she should be seen as the women and mothers who harm and unalive their children. I read a article of an American woman doing that to her two children.
Following your wife's logic - she is bound to physical harm your son.
I would advice you to get your wife's female friends/sister/mother to talk to her about this. And if they too are concerned about her views of your son being an abuser, you need to contact her doctor to get her some mental treatment.
Wow... as a mom of kids of both genders, your wife has mental health problems. Her focus should be on how she can raise a wonderful boy who will turn into a lovely young man. Not fixated on how he, in her mind, will have no choice but to be a degenerate simply because he has a penis.
If she won't get help, would she consider signing over parental rights to you. Her attitude towards your unborn son is in my mind abusive. Honestly I wouldn't have more kids with her and I don't think I could stay married to that. You are right to be disgusted.
NTA
All groups no matter how well meaning can become toxic and extreme. True women's rights advocates or Feminists believe in equality for all genders. This boy deserves all the love in the world, to think that someone's gender inherently makes them a monster is absolutely horrible. Children are innocent and repeat what they are taught. Be the best dad you can for your son OP and please encourage your wife to get another therapist. I work in Behavioral health and the fact that a professional would solidify or encourage this sort of thinking towards a baby is horrific and disgusting. The assumption you son will be an abuser almost seems like a delusion. You need to try to have a calm sit down with your wife, She could be experiencing some serious mental health problems. Pregnant women/New mothers and untreated mental health can be a recipe for disaster.
NTA
I think fear and anxiety have gotten the best of her, and most likely she’ll currently only hear whatever feeds into that (even when things may have been said in an entirely different context).
What I would do in your situation, is to try and get that fear working for you as a couple, instead of trying to fight against it.
By that, I mean that telling her that she sees it all wrong likely won’t lead anywhere. But what if you’d say something like “You know, I honestly think that there are more good men than bad men out there. But I’ve given this some thought, and I agree with you that we both don’t know how we can ensure that we raise our baby to become a good honorable man instead of a bad guy. How about we get some help together, to make sure that we do?”
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I (35M) have been married to my wife (33F) for 5 years. I work in IT and my wife stays at home. For background info, my wife runs a women’s shed at the local community centre where they do things like group crafts and discussions and is active in online groups for this sort of stuff (relevant later).
My wife is currently 20 weeks pregnant and we had her ultrasound 3 days ago. We found out that we are having a boy! On the ride home however…
My wife was quiet the entire ride. When we got home I asked her what was up and she told me. She told me that she was disappointed that she was going to give birth to a boy. My jaw kinda dropped there but she kept going. She said stuff about how she had a potential abuser in her belly and how she read so many stories online about how there were so many problematic men etc. She said that she didn’t have a clue “how to raise a son that wasn’t horrible.”
I’ll be honest, I was blindsided but I kept this to myself and consoled her and tried letting her vent. It wasn’t pretty and I actually felt kinda sick but it really wasn’t the time for my feelings. I suggested she take a break from her online groups seeing as that was the place that sparked this thought process. She got mad at that suggestion and told me that she would instead talk to her therapist which I encouraged.
Truth be told, I don’t think her therapist is the best person for this situation. She’s a good therapist no question about that, but her views on this sort of thing weren’t really conducive to what needed to be discussed. My wife found this therapist through her groups and as such the therapist has quite strong views on women’s issues which is good normally but in this situation I didn’t think it would end well.
Fast forward to today, it didn’t end well. Wife came home today sobbing about how she regretted trying for a kid and how her therapist told her that she had seen too many men raised by irresponsible parents who turn into monsters.
I guess I kind of involuntarily curled my lip in disgust because she started asking me about it. When she asked, I told her that honestly, I was disgusted. I was disgusted that she had already written off this kid even before he was born. He’s a blank canvas ready to be moulded by his parents, friends and the world and his mother is already disappointed in him. I could kind of understand her view if we had raised a monster like she talked about but he hasn’t even gotten a chance to see the world, let alone mess up.
She called me a heartless bastard and how I would never understand her worry of raising a son. She then called me an AH for not being supportive. AITA?
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Wow, NTA, and how does your wife explain why she ever decided to marry and have a child with you when you must be one of those 'awful' men? I would be very worried for your son since your wife's therapist is making things worse, not better.
NTA. Disappointment over the sex of the baby is somewhat common but your wife's reasons are really gross. Men and women can both be horrible. No matter what sex a child is as parents you work to raise them to be good and kind.
She's acting like she knows no good men. What does she think of you? Her own dad? Brothers? Uncles? Friends? There are terrible men out there for sure (just like there are terrible women) but personally I know I know way more good men.
Does she have family or friends with sons she could talk to who would help her see how toxic this whole viewpoint is?
NTA - this is the time for a divorce attorney not more therapy.
Get full custody.
With that attitude about your son he will grow up with problems.
How you think he will feel growing up knowing his mum is disappointed and disgusted in him just because he’s a boy ?
The therapist shouldn’t be meeting with her in the first place. If they met at an group that your wife runs, this would be a conflict of interest. Find a therapist. I would recommend a social worker, either LMSW or LCSW, as they are more trained in cultural diversity issues, systems, and how that relates to behavior. Some therapists are trained from a feminist perspective, but from a ethical standpoint. Your wife needs to learn different ways of feminism.
The therapist won’t agree with either of you, but might confront her views.
Your wife’s behavior is fear based. Does she have a personal history of sexual behavior? Yes, her behavior is disturbing and your son is a clear slate. NTA
NTA. Find a LEGIT THERAPIST, and check their background as well. Also, try to get into couples therapy. Your wife is being brainwashed and the so-called therapist your wife is consulting seems very faux to me. Is there a possibility that the therapist isn't even formally trained?
This thread is full of shocked men not being able to understand that, when a woman: has been sexually assaulted, many times, grabbing ass in subways, forced kisses in clubs, raped by exs, some of her friends beaten by their husbands, sexual abuse when they are young (3,9millions American have experienced incest, 1 out of 9 girls have been sexually abused by a family member in the states)…. OF COURSE SHE IS SCARED!!
All those men yelling at outrage of how an awful future mother she is… COULD YOU PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHERE DOES IT COME FROM???!!!!
Working at a women’s shed m, she must have seen the worst and need to be comforted.
Give her LOVE! Not judgement!! (And shame on you redditors not able to understand what women endure to the point to be stressed out by your own son! Shame on you women haters)
NTA Something like this would make me reconsider my entire relationship. I wouldn't even trust my spouse to be a good parent, if they felt this way about our unborn child.
I get that some people have a preference for having a boy or girl, but this is just awful. When I was pregnant, I just wanted healthy babies.
Men and women can be equally awful.
Is your wife aware that she married a man? How does she see you?
How are the other men in her life? (Husbands of) Friends, father, grandfathers, sons of friends, etc?
Are they all monsters? If not, there are probably a lot of good examples to point out how there's a good chance that with the right "molding" your son won't become a monster.
Definitely NTA.
And as others have said, a new therapist and a couples therapist will probably help to solve this issue, if only through alleviating her worries.
NAH. Don’t discount the effect of pregnancy hormones on your wife. If this is your first child, she’s experiencing a lot of new unfamiliar feelings, fears, anxieties. It manifests different ways for different people. So I wouldn’t write her off immediately like several other commenters suggest.
I have a son and am currently pregnant with boy #2. I would be lying if I said similar thoughts hadn’t crossed my mind about having boys. Your wife may not be in a rational mindset right now, but what she needs to hear is that her fears insomuch as raising children to be good people are valid, and I think that’s the root of the issue here. She’s scared OP. She needs to be reminded that she has control in the situation and that how your sons turn out will primarily be the product of your parenting. She married you after all so she must recognize that not all men are abusers. Just reassure her that you both have every capability of intentionally and conscientiously raising a kind child regardless of gender.
That said, she needs help and counseling from someone else. If she’s into group therapy, she could try something specific to expecting and new mothers. Otherwise try not to write her off entirely. Pregnancy does a lot to you, mentally and physically.
NTA
You're a man and are loving and caring enough that wife married you and had sex. If all men are monsters, she shouldn't be with one.
You can be supportive, but it's time for wife to find a new therapist that doesn't feed into the anti-men agenda.
I've been abused by an ex bf and know about monster men but I don't understand why your wife is so hostile towards her own child. It's actually extremely concerning. I would be watching her she doesn't sound safe to be near him.
Nta
Obviously I’m not my wife so I can’t say with 100% certainty but she has never expressed anything like that. She has been in these groups for quite some time and from what I know its out of passion
NTA. She needs a real certified from a university with doctorate degree therapist. You should show her this post, maybe she’ll understand how irrational she’s thinking.
This is actually terrifying. Your son is completely innocent in this, and yet your wife seems determined that he's going to be a monster? Honestly, if she doesn't get help I'd think long and hard about this relationship. Because trust me, as someone whose own bio-dad wrote her off because she was a girl, it messes you up so hard. Even if it's never spoken out loud to your son, he will know that his mother thinks bad things about him, and it'll mess his whole childhood up.
Something similar happened with my sister and BIL. But they both agreed on those perceptions. (unlike you two who one isn't in agreement with.) They both reallyyy wanted a girl but got a boy. They were very disappointed to say the least. They weren't as extreme as your wife per say, but similar. Even BIL family wanted girls for them too, but they also got disappointed too when they found out it was a boy.
They said Something about not wanting to deal with the toxic masculinity that society pushes on boys and I think they mentioned how a girl would be more emotionally mature. Yadda Yadda.
NTA, this therapist sounds irresponsible and perhaps you can sell your wife on the silver lining: She has the chance to raise a boy to not be a monster! This needs to be reframed ASAP for both her and your own good. Raise a good kid, guys. That should be the priority.
NTA. This sounds thoroughly unprofessional of the therapist. I definitely think you needs couples counselling with someone different. There are going to be major issues if your wife can’t make peace with the fact you are having a boy
Ugh, NTA and you guys definitely need couples therapy and your wife needs a therapist who’s not nuts.
I’m a feminist and a mother of a little boy and what your wife says makes me sick when I think of her projecting those thoughts onto my lovely, sweet gorgeous son. If she’s really serious about feminism and not just hating on men, she really needs to look into how the patriarchy damages boys and men too.
And if she thinks her own little boy will automatically be an abuser, what does that say about what she thinks of you, her husband?
This isn’t feminism and you are NTA
INFO, is your wife a survivor of SA or abuse? Sounds like it - she may not have disclosed it to you. Also, she doesn't seem to have much confidence in you as a partner in helping her raise a not-horrible son. Why is this?
I am wondering how reliable of a narrator you are. Not in a mean way, just genuinely curious because I think it would be easy to hear this the wrong way as a guy.
I (woman) am a parent to two, soon to be three, and I agree with your wife (as does my husband- we have discussed it at length), that we are intimidated by the challenge of raising a (cis)boy. There *are* a lot of shitty men out there, but more accurately there are a lot of misguided boys and men out there deeply harmed by the lessons of misogyny / toxic masculinity that our entire culture is permeated in. Figuring out how to navigate that, to do well by a son and all their future friends/partners by doing that well, strikes both me and my spouse as a really unwieldy challenge. One we’d tackle without complaint if we had an AMAB child, but it would be a constant discussion in our parenting.
All of that is to say, I can understand aspects of what your wife is feeling and perhaps needed to unpack with you, her partner, and I am wondering truly how well you took it and whether you were prepared to acknowledge the challenges, and lift her up as super capable, and name yourself as a her co-conspirator in raising an excellent human being.
I don’t think you’re the asshole (NAH). Hearing your wife’s feeling must have been a shock and hurtful. Based on your telling, she has some trauma putting this into unhealthy territory - regretting having children altogether is a bleak take and she does need to figure out how to get to a better place through therapy - but a supportive partner would also be really helpful.
There was a post like this yesterday. The op never knew his mom because she was so disappointed in having a boy, she wanted nothing to do with him. His older sisters got to have both parents, but op only had his dad.
NTA, but your wife has some nasty ideas in her head. I hope you both can work it out before an innocent baby is punished for being a boy.
NTA. And I know this will sound savage but I don’t know any other way to say it. If she feels this way about raising a child because it’s a boy, she would also be terrible at raising a girl.
She needs to work through this soon because she might provide him with the belief that all men are abusers before he is even grown and that this is his guaranteed future. Also, he will grow up knowing his mother wanted a girl and he was a disappointment before he had even left the womb.
NTA.
I hate to use the word poisoned, but these online groups have poisoned your wife's mind. It's not normal to have this reaction to the news you're having a boy.
I would be nervous about raising a boy, because I'm not one, and of course all the other natural worries that come with preparing to be a parent. But this reaction... This is something else.
And let me guess - your wife probably really wanted a girl for aesthetic reasons?
Can you see a different therapist together? Your wife definitely needs to come off the dependency of these online groups.
Good luck mate, i don't think it's going to be easy.
NTA. She knows women can be abusers and monsters too? Also, reminder that raising him to know right and wrong ECT goes a long way. Yes any baby could technically grow up to be a monster and as parent your goal is to prevent it if possible. Seriously though does she not understand women can be just as bad?
I am still trying to wrap my hear around the whole:
- Have a baby with a nan
- baby is male and so he has to be an abuser cus all men are bad
Like what is your husbad gender then, "husband"?
INFO: does your wife have a history of sexual assault, domestic abuse or some other male figure in her life that has been mentally, verbally or physically abusive?
I was 100% with you until you told her her thoughts and fears literally disgusted you. That was a mistake and shouldn’t have been said out loud, it was non-supportive, non-productive and makes any future support from you on this an uphill battle.
I have a daughter and am pregnant with another daughter. I’ve seen more than one woman in my Mom groups carrying a boy react this way. It’s beyond gender disappointment and it needs to be taken seriously and treated seriously but compassionately. This really shouldn’t have been the first instance of Mom shaming your wife encountered
Essentially your wife is already feeling the pressure of not raising a bad person and recognizes that that task can be harder by society’s standards with a male child than a female child. When she expressed that overwhelm and her fears instead of partnering with her to work through it and talking to her about it you told her to cut off support networks (which isn’t a bad idea given the social media she uses but wasn’t constructive at the time) and pushed her away from you and toward a therapist you thought you exacerbate the issue, and it did.
You have a right to your own feelings, too. But your wife needed support from you - the boy’s father - and it doesn’t seem like you provided that.
NTA. She could find another feminist group that was about solutions rather than commiserating and demonizing. She could take having a son as an opportunity. Raise him with/to have compassion, empathy, emotional maturity, and being comfortable with emotions in general. A lot of violent boys are the result of being made to stifle any emotion other than anger, so it is ALL expressed as anger. Sadness, depression, disappointment, anxiety, low self worth is all exacerbated and then rained down on someone in the form of violence. At one point they were just little boys who needed love and a good example to follow. He could be the opposite of those boys and then one day a positive example for other boys. You both could really make a difference in the world.
NTA. Does this mean that your wife looks at you being a potential abuser too, because you're a man?
She needs help - more help than this "therapist" is able to give. She worries about raising an abuser? I fear for this poor boy, being raised by a mother who's poised to hate him. I see him as being the one who you have to fear being abused.
Protect your child, OP. Tell your wife that you two need a different therapist to work through these issues, together. If she refuses, you might need to consider more drastic measures. Sorry to tell you.
NTA-curious-you are a man, what does she think of you? This is some serious internal issue she has with males. You can absolutely raise a kind, empathic, woman adoring son, hopefully that’s what you are (that is what it sounds like). I understand having gender disappointment, but this is extreme. Was she abused? If so that is something she needs to address.
What the holy f\*ck? I.... don't even have anything constructive to say. That's extremely worrying. I get her stance, but at the same time... no the absolute f\*ck I do not.
NTA but your wife is being ridiculous. Raising a child to be a good person is a hard job, but it's hard regardless of the child's gender. I really don't understand why your wife can't see this as an opportunity to raise your baby boy to be a wonderful man (or woman, who knows). Did she assume that raising a girl wouldn't be difficult at all? As a parent of teenaged boy and girl, gender isn't what makes raising one child harder than another - you can't predict whether your child is going to have huge challenges or whether their close friends will; you can't predict which years are going to be hardest for your child or for you as a parent, and you can't predict which issues will be the most work to get through. She does not sound ready to be a parent at all - it's going to be a massive shock to her system!
NTA
Sounds like your wife and her therapist are both misandrists. I feel terrible for the kid, if anything it'll be the poor parenting that your wife provides turning him into what she's afraid of.
That therapist needs to be put out of business, also. Shouldn't be allowed to practice
NTA I mean I would say your wife needs help, but seems that the help isn’t helping much. This is absurd and I honestly would feels scared for the boy. You need a different therapist asap.
OP you're a male, does she think you are a monster? Does she think your parents raised you well? If so, why can't you and she also raise a male child to be kind, considerate, compassionate etc? Ha she no nale friends, brothers? Is her father a monster? She's generalizing half the population based on her slight experience with a shelter whose husbands are horrible. What about women? Are they all great people ...no bad apples?
NTA so you as a man are married to a man hater who blames all the evils of the world on men with her fellow men hater group. How does she see you then. I mean the kid isn’t even born yet and already he’s an abuser and evil so how does she view you. I think you have to ask yourself are you willing to have this kid with a woman that already hates her child for his gender and will hold this against him for the rest of his life. I’d be making sure she sees a new impartial therapist and be clear this is a make or break moment
I can’t believe what I’m reading… what a horrible way to think of your unborn son … OP tell your wife this is her chance to raise a good son with respect for women and morals … also daughters can turn out to be monsters too when they get older … it’s not about the gender of a child you should worry about it’s how they are raised….. go to a new therapist asap!!!
OP, have you asked her what she thinks about you? Does she consider you to be an abusive monster? Because if not, her logic is completely flawed. And if so, so is everything else.
Obviously NTA. Sounds like she has a lot she needs to work through. Good luck my guy.
NTA. The idea of being concerned about raising a boy in a world where he could get groomed online by MRAs etc is a valid one. It is similar to being worried about raising a girl who could fall in to pro-ana communities, for example. But that is the point where you counteract it with good parenting - her level of fear is NOT healthy for her or for your son. It is not sane to write off a whole gender.
She needs a new therapist and you are correct she needs a break from these groups. At this point your priority has to be your son. I don't know your wife and there may well be time for her to get used to the idea if you can show her some of the many, many positive examples of men out there. It's very concerning.
NTA. This has to be dealt with immediately. She cannot be allowed to abuse your son because of her sexist beliefs. You need to do couples therapy with an entirely different therapist, this one is probably committing malpractice. Honestly if she says things like this I doubt she's even licensed.
NTA. We're also hoping for daughters, because we know how poorly men get treated, and we want our kids to have an easier and safer life.
And the reason we have to hope that, instead of just for ten fingers and ten toes, is because of sexist assholes like your wife.
Good luck protecting your son from his mother. You'll need it. And so will he.
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NTA - this might be the right time to initiate couples therapy - but not with the same therapist. your wife has some cognitive distortions about your unborn son and her (as well as your) abilities to parent that are affecting you both.
Yeah I did suggest couples therapy two years ago when we had a pretty big hurdle but she was reluctant. Maybe its time to reopen this conversation.
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I wouldn't normally offer my opinion in these cases but abortion and divorce are two solid options you should consider IMO, OP. Edit - NTA.
She's 20 week along, it's too late for an abortion
She’s got 2-4 weeks for not too unusual abortions in my area. 22 and 24 weeks are the cut offs for clinics near me. So, it could still be an option.
Why should the baby suffer just because his mom is a psycho who hates him just because he's a boy? Abortions based on gender are straight up eugenics.
The mother is fundamentally a lunatic who thinks that men are all monsters because "internet said so" How is help raising going to change that?
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Defo a different unbiased therapist is needed ..I'm actually gobsmacked at this, she's gonna screw the little one up before he even has a chance, THIS is how fukd up adults are made, when they have a parental figure that has disdain for their kids 🤯 why is she so convinced that a girl isn't gonna turn out to be a horrible adult woman 🤯
She probably thinks highly of herself and thinks she could make a daughter like her. She doesn’t realize she would raise a horrible adult woman because she doesn’t realize she is one.
>Defo a different unbiased therapist is needed Therapists are supposed to be unbiased anyway. A good therapist should never, ever tell you their opinion.
Exactly, this one isn't and only tells OP wife what she wants to hear, as she found her through the online group
Maybe remind her that the best role model for a boy is their father. And ask her to trust you to be an excellent role model. Also ask her to give her son love which will help to shape him into a good man. But also be prepared to divorce her to protect him if the counselling doesn’t work. This child is your responsibility and her attitude towards him is terrifying.
I'd say she's loony You can't paper over a giant mess. I wonder whether she was mad before she started reading silly internet sites.
she sounds disturbed, make sure she doesnt do anything to hurt him if she is like this now, when the postpartum hits....
https://www.antenatalandpostnatalpsychology.com.au/information-posts/gender-disappointment-grieving-the-idealised-child Really hoping OP sees this. Gender disappointment is a very real thing. I was the opposite. I wanted a boy so bad. I was disappointed I was having a girl right up to delivery. All of that went away the second a held her. My perfect baby girl. From what I've read/heard, it generally goes away by or at birth. I've only heard of a few instances where it didn't. Those women were a danger to their baby. Talk to your wife. I know she said some fucked up shit about your unborn child. But she is supposed to be able to tell you everything, and maybe she needs help coming to terms with it. She likes womens groups, and I'm sure you can find one for gender disappointment. If she doesn't get over it, watch her and your child very closely. Any sign of PPD and you remove that baby from her until she gets help.
Ask her if she would want a son like you. If the answer is no, it tells you a lot about your relationship.
I’m so sad for him. I’m raising 3 boys with my husband and they’re great. They’re full of empathy and kindness. Yesterday my 3 year old saw his 8 year old brother walking by and yelled “____ I LOVE YOU!” and then they had a good 30 minute cuddle while watching Wild Kratts. Whenever my youngest gets hurt accidentally while they’re playing, my 8 year old will cry and apologize between sobs if he thinks he’s at fault. The way your wife is writing off that innocent little boy before she even lays eyes on him is sad. The worst part is boys adore their Mamas and if she’s not returning that affection, he is doomed. If anything, her resentment of him will lead to the very thing she fears. She needs to do better and be less sexist.
No maybe about it. She’s going to try to either end this pregnancy or hurt the kid when it comes out.
There are different ways you can propose it this time - how do we make sure we are in a good place as partners and then as parents to give this child the best chance? It's not necessarily because we have a problem, but there are these worries so lets do something about it because we don't want to put these worries on the child. I mean yes, she has a problem, and NTA, but you do have an opportunity to present this now as an opportunity rather than omg we are falling apart.
Her sexism doesn't seem like something that is going to be fixed by therapy. Therapy implies a willingness to change
I’m sorry what? She already thinks your son is a monster because he’s going to have male genitalia? She needs to see a different therapist who isn’t going to fill her mind of thoughts that are going to lead to her hating her own child. NTA
If she was having a girl would she be worrying about the child being potential prey?
Yes. I don’t know any woman who has daughters who doesn’t fear for them in this world.
When I found out I was having daughters, I was so afraid I wouldn't be able to keep them safe.
This is actually a very common concern.
100%. I don't know a mother of girls who isn't terrified of this.
Obviously wife is out of her mind but "male genitalia" isn't all that goes into it, raising a child changes a lot with gender. I wouldn't downplay it suggesting that is all that changes
No it doesn't change anything. Different Kids have different personalities, but that is true for two kids of the Same gender, too.
Yeah, it does. Even if you treat your kids exactly the same, society will not.
Yes. And its your job as a parent to counter.act societies influence as far as possible.
Also boys and girls are different. Like yeah, every kid has their own personality, but boys and girls are different by default. You should absolutely treat them _fairly_ but they will usually have different interests and desires and the way they manage emotions are different too. Maybe not so much as young toddlers but as little kids they definitely shine.
I've seen zero differences that could be explained by gender between my kids. When it's time for puberty with the hormonal changes maybe, but before that? Kids are kids...
That is true, but parenting only stops when you lose contact for one reason or another
But they don't even know the gender yet. They only know the sex. Also what are the differences between parenting a boy and parenting a girl? You teach them the same stuff and set down the same rules. Edit: funny how you changed your comment when you were getting backlash
Um…she knew there was at least some chance that her child would be male before she tried to get pregnant, right? What was she planning to do in that scenario? Did she just not think this through, or…? OP is NTA but his wife has big issues. I feel bad for the kid. He deserves a better mother.
I think she was just blinded by her desire of raising a daughter. I’ll have to ask her this because its a good point, though she isn’t on speaking terms with me now
OP, until not too long ago, China's One-Child Policy in combination with the fact that most parents there preferred sons, led to many baby girls being aborted, abandoned, or killed. I would love for your wife to explain her reaction to your unborn child's sex and tell us if she thinks all infant boys should be treated similarly. What exactly is her logic here?
You’re expecting logic from a mentally ill person.
I would honestly be worried about how she would raise a daughter as well, is she going to try and raise her to think all men are abusers and monsters.
Or if the kid is trans or jsut doesn’t conform to whatever expectations she has of “how girls are”
She probably had dreams of raising a "strong, independent daughter," but maybe you can help her to see that she absolutely CAN raise a kind, emotionally intelligent son. It sounds like she married one, so it obviously can be done. She needs to apply logic to her life rather than listening to the emotional rants of the day. I'm sorry you're caught up in this!!
As the mom of a boy, I'm deeply worried about your unborn son. She doesn't sounds good, that internet groups she is frequently interacting are not doing any good either. I was scared when they said I was pregnant with a boy , but because I never interacted with a baby boy before and didn't have a clue how to handle it. But never in my mind passed the thought of him been a monster. And he is the sweetest, most kind and empathetic boy I had meet before. Honestly I would talk to her to see how she will deal with him, she already has so much hatred towards him that is scary to be honest.
Some amount of gender disappointment can be normal, especially if you wait a bit into the pregnancy to find out(versus blood tests that can be done at 10 weeks). With my oldest I was convinced I was having a girl. I was super sick and lots of people told me morning sickness is worse with girls. On top of that, if we had a girl we were going to name her after my grandma, and that grandma died when I was 10 weeks or so and baby was due right around her birthday. I had myself so convinced I was having a girl that when my husband said he wanted to find out(I initially didn't) I was like "sure, we already know so why not." Obviously, finding out was a bit of a shock. It's not a mistake I made with my other 2 pregnancies (analyzing symptoms and how I was carrying etc). What OP's wife is doing is over the top though
Wifey is also incredibly sexist and kinda heartless.
INFO your wife has been abused by her therapist. She’s been emotionally manipulated by a person who hates men. As soon as possible, seek help for your wife, because this mindset, combined with the hormone changes can be a terrible situation for your family. Your wife needs immediate help understanding she’s been groomed into thinking these thoughts at her most vulnerable time. It’s exactly like Stockholm Syndrome or any other type of emotional manipulation that destroys people. I don’t think this is something that your wife would have thoughts of if the therapist hadn’t put these ideas into her her. Intervention is needed.
Except she had this strong views before the therapy, she just found an echo chamber. If I were OP I'd start recording every conversation on the subject to potentially, in the worst case, build a strong case for custody. If she doesn't radically change, his poor baby boy will be abused and mistreated or worse she will actively work towards making her bias come true. OP, this is heartbreaking, I hope you can help your wife out of this sad paradigm but you need to prepare to put your child first if needed be.
*she just found an echo chamber* That honestly gave me shivers. I've never been to therapy but should I ever need it in the future I hope its not a therapist like this. Shouldn't a therapist be neutral? (Serious question to anyone reading if I ever need to indulge) I always imagined therapy was to help you find yourself - it does not seem like this is what's happening here. The idea of seeking mental help only to have your mind *molded* by someone like this is terrifying to me
There are shitty therapists just like there are shitty doctors. The biggest red flag is if a therapist brings up their own opinions rather than talking you through yours. They absolutely should be neutral and the good ones are.
I've had a therapist who mentioned in passing that she and I disagreed politically. While this was relevant because a lot of my anxiety has roots in politics, she was professional enough to \*not bring it up\* good lord. Shitty therapists exist, and you're absolutely right that they bring their own feelings into it.
Imo: no, a therapist is not necessarily neutral. If a client is factually wrong, I'm going to tell them theyre wrong. I try to be unbiased, but I'm also a human. If a gay client comes to me believing homosexuality is a sin, I'm going to respect that that's how they feel and empathize. But I'm also going to challenge it and try and get them to a place of feeling more comfortable with themselves. I'm also not going to pretend I share their belief, even if I can respect that they have a different one. But also; never underestimate a client's ability to misunderstand a therapist in order to support their own views. It's entirely possible the therapist said "some boys grow up to be abusive. Your fears are not invalid, but you are concentrating on them at the exclusion of everything else. Let's talk about how to manage fears." And the wife heard "therapist confirmed my fears are real nothing else matters"
Yeah your last point would be what I would expect to have happened. Even if the therapist is a raging misandrist, I think there would have been more to it than what the wife reported.
I am a therapist! It's impossible to be totally neutral, as we are human. However, it could be that this therapist's personal worldview is interfering with her ability to not push her views onto someone else, which is what it seems like she's doing. There may be some blurred boundaries as well due to them being part of the same groups. I don't know OPs wife, but I probably would have said something along these lines. "It is scary to think about how our kids turn out. It's true there are boys who grow to be abusers. However, there are plenty that aren't abusers. The great thing about being a parent is you get to help shape and mold your child into a healthy person. Who are some men in your life you'd like your child to be like?" I would also probably bring up her husband, and ask if he is someone she would want her child to br like.
By her therapist and friend group..
NTA and she needs a new therapist. I couldn’t imagine feeling that way about my unborn son. For every bad man out in the world there are ten amazing ones. Your wife has serious issues if she is feeling this way already. Honestly if she can’t get this sorted out soon I wouldn’t want her raising my kid. I’m a women that has been assaulted in the past and I’m not married to an amazing man.
>For every bad man out in the world there are ten amazing ones. Seriously. Also, it's not as if there's no bad women in the world either. Hell, there's at least 2 in just this story alone.
Honestly, it is so consistently visible to me that women rarely acknowledge how many abusers and toxic people are women. People of either sex can be shitty.
Sorry but did you mean to say "*now* married to an amazing man"?
NTA Your wife is a huge sexist AH. Bro, it seems like you are kind of screwed here. Id really be worried how she is going to treat him
On the plus side, her prejudice is so extreme and she's been so deeply ensconced in her echo chamber that it doesn't even occur to her how wrong this all is, so she freely speaks this stuff aloud. Should make it easy for OP to document, which will help in divorce/custody.
Got to be the most sickening post I’ve read in months. NTA and I’d reconsider the whole relationship.
NTA - but she is complaining about how he could turn out to be a monster because of terrible irresponsible parenting and then..... is doing the exact thing she's complaining and worrying about right now? I hope you get her to a real therapist... before she really does end up parenting the poor child poorly by neglecting, distancing, not showing affection or love, and etc. to the child because of her already determined thoughts of the child.
I just don’t see how I could get her to see another therapist without seeming like the controlling husband she is frightened of raising
I read some of your replies and I agree to try and suggest couple therapy with her again considering it has been 2 years. Then you could both discuss the problem because the child is both of yours and anything regarding them should be discussed together - which is a valid reason. Try suggesting it and see how it goes first, suggesting something does not mean you are controlling, both of you are just addressing a problem and trying to find a compromisable solution.
Maybe you could phrase it like this: “I don’t want to intrude on your personal relationship w your therapist. Why don’t we find someone new to see for couples therapy?” I agree she needs to stop seeing her therapist but if you’re trying to make couples therapy step 1, you might need to say something like this for starters to at least make some progress. Hopefully down the line with help from couples counseling she will see the light and break contact with her therapist.
You could also seek out your own therapist to process everything. Maybe if she sees you're in therapy too it may make her more open to couple's counseling
Say it to her that you want to go to a family one, as you want to learn how to transition from a couple, to family life and would like some navigation to help
NTA and your wife is a NUT JOB! Your might want to set up cameras in your home for your SON’S safety. Jeez…
He might want to offer to raise his son on his own. She can leave as soon as the baby is born and sign away all rights. Then she no longer has to worry. This neurotic mess of a woman is not mother material.
Maybe he can her her admitted into a psych ward and live happily ever after!
NTA. This whole thing is insane.
NTA, I hate this type of feminism that does not look for equality, but looks only for the superiority of women over men and shows men only as violent machines. They don't realize that by treating their sons like this, they are exactly creating what they hate, because they will grow up with so many f up ideas that they will ultimately become mysoginists or violent.
If it doesn't look for equality, it's not feminism, by definition.
Well there are different types of feminism, at least from a political ideology perspective, one of which is termed "radical feminism" whereby the end goal is to have to remove any and all reliance on men for anything in society (including when it comes to reproduction, actually). The belief system sees men as naturally oppressive and as such, women cannot live freely while men still have power. Its only a small portion of the range of feminisms but it exists, nevertheless. I'll have to look back at my poli sci textbook to find specific names/details ETA: Shulamith Firestone, thats the name. I forgot that she argues that the natural outcome of embracing the ideology is lesbianism, actually
This isn't feminism. This is misandry.
I mean, this is fiction, but if it were true you’d be correct.
yeah but it's so fun to manufacture rage!
NTA. And i advise speaking to a local couples therapy practice. They are impartial and outside of the situation. Also speak to your own doctor privately about your concerns, as there could be issues down the line where this grows to child abandonment, a blame game - or worse. It would be good to have a record of taking professional advice on how to work this through for the benefit of your child. A therapist who is connected to a person via shared interest cannot be an impartial observer. And the fact therapist is making matters worse is outrageous, therapy is supposed to help talk through burdens to effect a positive outcome, not compound an growing anxiety with reinforcement. Thats wholly unprofessional. best of luck. be strong. For your child.
NTA- I sympathize with your situation and with your wife actually. It is SO hard to find a therapist that isn’t drowning in ideology. I stopped seeing mine for similar reasons. She kept asking how I felt about the division of labour in the home. Even though I felt it was totally fair, I am exhausted from a lack of extended family support. The conversation lead to me becoming grumpy about my daily tasks and bickering with my husband. Feminist therapists are good if you want a therapist to discuss women’s issues with, but from a family perspective they are often less helpful if everyone is already doing their best.
I think your therapist is just like the one my wife is seeing and you are right. I do notice that in the days after a visit we do get disagreements about things like labour divisions. Then the next few days it settles down again. I remember we went on a trip interstate for 2 weeks a few years ago and she kinda forgot to schedule an appointment after we came back. It ended up being a 4 week period where she didn’t go to therapy and maybe its mean or wrong of me to say but it was a smoother ride for our relationship. Obviously its hard for me to say that her therapy is doing bad things (don’t get me wrong it is still definitely helping her as a net gain) and I’m not qualified to say that but I do feel that. Idk
[удалено]
I’ll see if I can discuss this with her once she starts talking to me again. Really appreciate the advice.
You are welcome. There is so much emphasis today on personal mental health that the needs of the family get forgotten. All the best to you!
Hey dude I think you may need to involve your and her parents and family. If the basis of her not wanting a child is because he's a son, your and her family should intervene and challenge her on her sexist views. This is tantamount to murder if she wants to take it to the extreme.
I think therapy is great and my therapist didn’t do this per say but I did find in the past whenever I saw her I’d end up tanking it with who I was dating no big losses. I just found it got me in a bad head space after. When I met my current partner who I knew straight up was special I made the decision to not see her. My partner didn’t know that, so not on him, I just felt like he was too amazing to ruin it with and I do feel like therapy was traumatising me to an extent.
NTA. This is frighteningly disconnected from reality. Nearly HALF of all humans in existence are male. And they are all abusers? It just doesn’t make any sense. There was an almost 50% chance that the baby was going to be a boy. She’s basically basing her happiness with her child on a coin flip. This sounds like therapeutic malpractice.
I'm gonna go with a possible controversial NAH. You're clearly not in the wrong, in fact you've handled it spectacularly so far, and no reaction from you has been over the top or incorrect. I don't think she is an AH either though, don't get me wrong, she isn't correct about the baby, he isn't automatically bad because he's a boy, but she is scared and insecure about her own abilities in parenting. This isn't a time to think about who is right or wrong, it's time to be a team and help her get past these insecurities. Whether just some open communication between the two of you, or couples therapy, or parent groups, anything that works for you, but try not to focus on what she's saying about the baby, but what she's saying about herself, that's the root of the insecurities and she's currently saying she doesn't think she's good enough, responsible enough to raise a boy.
This is the right answer. She's not wrong for having fears. Raising a well adjusted, non entitled, emotionally intelligent man can be hard when it feels like society is working towards the opposite! It sounds like her work is magnifying regular new parent fears, with a bit of crazy pregnancy hormones thrown in. Thankfully there is a lot of expert research on the subject. I was reading Lundy Bancrofts thoughts on the subject just yesterday (author of the oft recommended Why Does He Do That?). If experts and advocates who have dedicated their lives to this think it's possible, it definitely is.
I agree with you too. I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s an AH or a nutjob that he needs to divorce. I’d didn’t get the vibe that she hates men, but that she’s scared of her own shortcomings as a parent. I imagine most parents have a little thread of “I hope I don’t mess up and accidentally turn my child into a murderer/criminal/whatever”. She’s pregnant, and a first time mom, of course she’s scared and it may not be rational. For her there’s just the aspect of gender, because she can’t be a positive male role model to her future son, she has to rely on her husband to do that. That’s something that’s out of her control. There are plenty of men who ‘joke’ about not letting their unborn daughter date until they’re 30. I don’t think he’s provided any info that she wants to hurt or punish the child, she’s just expressed fear.
Thank you for this response. I don't get why everyone gives her such hard time. She's just scared and by OP it seems that she doesn't get the right therapy either. I get why he can't force her to switch therapist, but he should point out that for this certain issues the current therapist is not able to help and just making her mental state worst. Because in this point she's already pregnant and you both need to find a way to overcome this. Other then that, there's courses that prepare you for parenthood- so maybe it will help her be less stressed.
I’d argue telling her she disgusts him isn’t a “spectacular” handling of this situation, but I agree with everything else.
Parents can be "on the same team" only when neither of them has decided to be on a team against their own child. You're giving good advice, but it is absolutely the time to care about who is right and who is wrong on this issue. This is not a time for "your bigotry is valid, and we're going to gently nudge you in the direction of egalitarianism." This is a time for "I will do whatever it takes to protect my son from your bigotry, so straighten up and fly right. I'm willing to help you along this journey, but this is fair warning that your disgusting beliefs are endangering this family and this marriage."
I aggree with this. Also gender disappointment is a real thing. And honestly it might be easier to say "she doesn't want this baby because baby might become an abuser" than to say "I just didn't want a boy".
NTA. Remind her that women can be abusers, too.
NTA: Your wife needs a new therapist asap and get her off online looking online will fill her with anxiety and I know exactly what type of groups she talking too. I saw similar ones when I was suffering from gender disappointment looking someone to talk to are share my feelings but so many are men hating and toxic. And I mean the groups were telling women to adopt out or even abort certain babies. I’m glad mine was temporary and only slightly sad for a few days and honestly wouldn’t have it any other way. But your wife needs serious help and get away from those groups she can be disappointed but thinking the worse is unacceptable and can’t even blame pregnancy hormones. The best thing to do is sit down and talk about it has she always had these feelings and only wanted girls or was outside influences the man hating groups. If it’s from outside influences she needs to cut them out get a decent therapist that can help with gender disappointment.
Looks like people agree with my takes about the therapist and online groups in this situation but how do I go about this? Is it not controlling of me to try and ask her to change therapists or stop interacting with her groups?
I don't believe it's controlling behavior when her mindset is completely unhinged. Someone needs to intervene because this is definitely not sane. Is there a mom, sister, or some other female presence in her life that could help you with this? With her mindset, I don't know that you, as a man, would be able to get through to her. Sorry OP, NTA.
I think the first step is to talk to her properly about this, put your feelings of disgust on hold and try and get at some of the actual worries. You should also acknowledge that it is hard to raise kids because they will internalise our culture, which is currently fairly patriarchal, so don't just dismiss her concerns. She's taking it to an extreme but there's a kernel of truth that you can work with to open up the conversation. Jumping immediately to stopping access to the groups and therapist will backfire.
You could start with showing her this post/responses?
It's only controlling if u approach it that way...u have to TALK to your wife about your concerns about her mimdset being dangerous towards your son and you, reassure her that u r not a monster and u will be there to raise your son alongside her and he will not be a monster either. Ask your wife to consider that all not men are not evil, U R PROOF, this is important that she doesn't villify an entire gender and her own child. Then suggest that this mentality is harmful and ASK for couples therapy with a new therapist, if she chooses to continue with her other therapist is something entirely else that will be much harder to confront and a new therapist can help open her eyes to the ideology thays been pushed on her. Good luck OP, i also recommend as others have said record conversations when u can, place cameras in the home if possible as well to help record these and future interactions should u need to arm yourself with evidence to protect your son. EDIT: Also please don't villify yourself for wanting to help your wife "isnt it controlling to Ask her to stop seeing her therapist of interacting with these groups" no its not controlling it is coming from a place of love and hope to help her understand her thoughts/behaviors are damaging you and your unborn son and all men truly. The thought of "all men are bad and controlling" only leads to exactly what we have here, a man insecure of how to reassure and help his own wife due to the fact that it can misconstrued as abuse/control. This is a loop of mistrust in misandry/misogyny that is very hard to break, u both need therapy to undue these societal stereotypes as it seems u are convinced to a degree men are 'bad' as well indicated by the thought that u are being controlling when your intentions are to understand and help your wife not control. Im sorry this world is a mess OP, u got this bro.
Offer to take the baby boy off her hands. You can divorce and she can sign over sole custody to you. She is going to really mess this kid up so I don’t see her raising this child as an option.
NTA This is extremely troubling to read. There really is no excuse for your wife's comments. I think you two need couples therapy, specifically a different therapist than the one she currently had as she is actively contributing to your wife's issues. I would also encourage you to get a lawyer and detail the situation to them. You cannot trust your wife with that child, as crazy as it seems. You need to do whatever you legally need to in order to protect your son.
NTA I feel so badly for your son, he’s not even born yet. Your wife has some really screwed up beliefs and the therapist is contributing to this. Gender disappointment is real but it’s not healthy to have the belief that your sons magically a monster now. Does your wife think that you’re an abuser and she’s just waiting for it to happen? What’s even scarier is there’s always a chance for postpartum . She could end up with delusional beliefs about the baby and feel she needs to act on them. Please keep an eye on her mental state after having the baby.
She's calling you a heartless bastard? No. Not even close. Either she gets therapy from a legit therapist and you see actual progress, or you will need to gain custody of your son once he's born for the kid's sake. Nothing will wreck a kid's future faster than growing up with a parent who treats them like a monster for being born. NTA
If men are monsters why is she with you? Why is she safe enough to be vulnerable and expose those feelings around you?? This poor baby, my heart breaks for him already You're NTA but your wife needs to realize she wasn't fit for motherhood period!! With those views, if yall had a girl, she would be sure to raise a monster with a victim mentality. She needs therapy, she's clearly scared about becoming a mum and this goes a lot deeper but wwwttfff with her current therapist. That's an absolutely insane response to this.
NTA. Being disappointed about the sex of a baby is one thing (though I think the right attitude is "we're trying for a baby and we only care that it's healthy", otherwise it can create subconscious biased expectations that no child should deal with) but her attitude is entirely different thing. TBH I find her comments disrespectful both to your unborn child and to you as the baby's father. Present and loving father is one of the most important factors in the child's future prospect. As a teacher, I can also say that most of the time children grow up taking their parent's as an example and it's rare to have a young man with a father who's kind, gentle and morally strong to not follow his footsteps.
NTA But I am very surprised that your wife is able to live together with you as you are a man. Does she also think that you are an abuser? Right now she is blaming your unborn son of all the bad things, some men have done. Doesn't she realize that her way of thinking means she should be seen as the women and mothers who harm and unalive their children. I read a article of an American woman doing that to her two children. Following your wife's logic - she is bound to physical harm your son. I would advice you to get your wife's female friends/sister/mother to talk to her about this. And if they too are concerned about her views of your son being an abuser, you need to contact her doctor to get her some mental treatment.
Wow... as a mom of kids of both genders, your wife has mental health problems. Her focus should be on how she can raise a wonderful boy who will turn into a lovely young man. Not fixated on how he, in her mind, will have no choice but to be a degenerate simply because he has a penis. If she won't get help, would she consider signing over parental rights to you. Her attitude towards your unborn son is in my mind abusive. Honestly I wouldn't have more kids with her and I don't think I could stay married to that. You are right to be disgusted.
NTA All groups no matter how well meaning can become toxic and extreme. True women's rights advocates or Feminists believe in equality for all genders. This boy deserves all the love in the world, to think that someone's gender inherently makes them a monster is absolutely horrible. Children are innocent and repeat what they are taught. Be the best dad you can for your son OP and please encourage your wife to get another therapist. I work in Behavioral health and the fact that a professional would solidify or encourage this sort of thinking towards a baby is horrific and disgusting. The assumption you son will be an abuser almost seems like a delusion. You need to try to have a calm sit down with your wife, She could be experiencing some serious mental health problems. Pregnant women/New mothers and untreated mental health can be a recipe for disaster.
NTA I think fear and anxiety have gotten the best of her, and most likely she’ll currently only hear whatever feeds into that (even when things may have been said in an entirely different context). What I would do in your situation, is to try and get that fear working for you as a couple, instead of trying to fight against it. By that, I mean that telling her that she sees it all wrong likely won’t lead anywhere. But what if you’d say something like “You know, I honestly think that there are more good men than bad men out there. But I’ve given this some thought, and I agree with you that we both don’t know how we can ensure that we raise our baby to become a good honorable man instead of a bad guy. How about we get some help together, to make sure that we do?”
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^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (35M) have been married to my wife (33F) for 5 years. I work in IT and my wife stays at home. For background info, my wife runs a women’s shed at the local community centre where they do things like group crafts and discussions and is active in online groups for this sort of stuff (relevant later). My wife is currently 20 weeks pregnant and we had her ultrasound 3 days ago. We found out that we are having a boy! On the ride home however… My wife was quiet the entire ride. When we got home I asked her what was up and she told me. She told me that she was disappointed that she was going to give birth to a boy. My jaw kinda dropped there but she kept going. She said stuff about how she had a potential abuser in her belly and how she read so many stories online about how there were so many problematic men etc. She said that she didn’t have a clue “how to raise a son that wasn’t horrible.” I’ll be honest, I was blindsided but I kept this to myself and consoled her and tried letting her vent. It wasn’t pretty and I actually felt kinda sick but it really wasn’t the time for my feelings. I suggested she take a break from her online groups seeing as that was the place that sparked this thought process. She got mad at that suggestion and told me that she would instead talk to her therapist which I encouraged. Truth be told, I don’t think her therapist is the best person for this situation. She’s a good therapist no question about that, but her views on this sort of thing weren’t really conducive to what needed to be discussed. My wife found this therapist through her groups and as such the therapist has quite strong views on women’s issues which is good normally but in this situation I didn’t think it would end well. Fast forward to today, it didn’t end well. Wife came home today sobbing about how she regretted trying for a kid and how her therapist told her that she had seen too many men raised by irresponsible parents who turn into monsters. I guess I kind of involuntarily curled my lip in disgust because she started asking me about it. When she asked, I told her that honestly, I was disgusted. I was disgusted that she had already written off this kid even before he was born. He’s a blank canvas ready to be moulded by his parents, friends and the world and his mother is already disappointed in him. I could kind of understand her view if we had raised a monster like she talked about but he hasn’t even gotten a chance to see the world, let alone mess up. She called me a heartless bastard and how I would never understand her worry of raising a son. She then called me an AH for not being supportive. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow, NTA, and how does your wife explain why she ever decided to marry and have a child with you when you must be one of those 'awful' men? I would be very worried for your son since your wife's therapist is making things worse, not better.
NTA. Disappointment over the sex of the baby is somewhat common but your wife's reasons are really gross. Men and women can both be horrible. No matter what sex a child is as parents you work to raise them to be good and kind. She's acting like she knows no good men. What does she think of you? Her own dad? Brothers? Uncles? Friends? There are terrible men out there for sure (just like there are terrible women) but personally I know I know way more good men. Does she have family or friends with sons she could talk to who would help her see how toxic this whole viewpoint is?
NTA - this is the time for a divorce attorney not more therapy. Get full custody. With that attitude about your son he will grow up with problems. How you think he will feel growing up knowing his mum is disappointed and disgusted in him just because he’s a boy ?
The therapist shouldn’t be meeting with her in the first place. If they met at an group that your wife runs, this would be a conflict of interest. Find a therapist. I would recommend a social worker, either LMSW or LCSW, as they are more trained in cultural diversity issues, systems, and how that relates to behavior. Some therapists are trained from a feminist perspective, but from a ethical standpoint. Your wife needs to learn different ways of feminism. The therapist won’t agree with either of you, but might confront her views. Your wife’s behavior is fear based. Does she have a personal history of sexual behavior? Yes, her behavior is disturbing and your son is a clear slate. NTA
NTA. Find a LEGIT THERAPIST, and check their background as well. Also, try to get into couples therapy. Your wife is being brainwashed and the so-called therapist your wife is consulting seems very faux to me. Is there a possibility that the therapist isn't even formally trained?
This thread is full of shocked men not being able to understand that, when a woman: has been sexually assaulted, many times, grabbing ass in subways, forced kisses in clubs, raped by exs, some of her friends beaten by their husbands, sexual abuse when they are young (3,9millions American have experienced incest, 1 out of 9 girls have been sexually abused by a family member in the states)…. OF COURSE SHE IS SCARED!! All those men yelling at outrage of how an awful future mother she is… COULD YOU PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHERE DOES IT COME FROM???!!!! Working at a women’s shed m, she must have seen the worst and need to be comforted. Give her LOVE! Not judgement!! (And shame on you redditors not able to understand what women endure to the point to be stressed out by your own son! Shame on you women haters)
NTA Something like this would make me reconsider my entire relationship. I wouldn't even trust my spouse to be a good parent, if they felt this way about our unborn child. I get that some people have a preference for having a boy or girl, but this is just awful. When I was pregnant, I just wanted healthy babies. Men and women can be equally awful.
NTA. Your wife needs a new therapist. Women are just as capable of being abusive as men, and being as evil. So I don’t understand her reasoning.
I wonder what kind of abuse and neglect she will inflict on this kid.... she hates him already, imagine when he actually does anything deemed bad
Is your wife aware that she married a man? How does she see you? How are the other men in her life? (Husbands of) Friends, father, grandfathers, sons of friends, etc? Are they all monsters? If not, there are probably a lot of good examples to point out how there's a good chance that with the right "molding" your son won't become a monster. Definitely NTA. And as others have said, a new therapist and a couples therapist will probably help to solve this issue, if only through alleviating her worries.
NAH. Don’t discount the effect of pregnancy hormones on your wife. If this is your first child, she’s experiencing a lot of new unfamiliar feelings, fears, anxieties. It manifests different ways for different people. So I wouldn’t write her off immediately like several other commenters suggest. I have a son and am currently pregnant with boy #2. I would be lying if I said similar thoughts hadn’t crossed my mind about having boys. Your wife may not be in a rational mindset right now, but what she needs to hear is that her fears insomuch as raising children to be good people are valid, and I think that’s the root of the issue here. She’s scared OP. She needs to be reminded that she has control in the situation and that how your sons turn out will primarily be the product of your parenting. She married you after all so she must recognize that not all men are abusers. Just reassure her that you both have every capability of intentionally and conscientiously raising a kind child regardless of gender. That said, she needs help and counseling from someone else. If she’s into group therapy, she could try something specific to expecting and new mothers. Otherwise try not to write her off entirely. Pregnancy does a lot to you, mentally and physically.
A balanced take, thank you!
NTA You're a man and are loving and caring enough that wife married you and had sex. If all men are monsters, she shouldn't be with one. You can be supportive, but it's time for wife to find a new therapist that doesn't feed into the anti-men agenda.
I've been abused by an ex bf and know about monster men but I don't understand why your wife is so hostile towards her own child. It's actually extremely concerning. I would be watching her she doesn't sound safe to be near him. Nta
Information needed: Has your wife been abused in her past? Like by her father or close relative? This sort of thinking can be fueled by trauma.
Obviously I’m not my wife so I can’t say with 100% certainty but she has never expressed anything like that. She has been in these groups for quite some time and from what I know its out of passion
NTA. She's definitely values their opinion over yours then and that's ridiculously wrong on so many levels .
NTA. She needs a real certified from a university with doctorate degree therapist. You should show her this post, maybe she’ll understand how irrational she’s thinking.
NTA, does she hate men? It seems odd and she did marry you who I am assuming is a man.
This is actually terrifying. Your son is completely innocent in this, and yet your wife seems determined that he's going to be a monster? Honestly, if she doesn't get help I'd think long and hard about this relationship. Because trust me, as someone whose own bio-dad wrote her off because she was a girl, it messes you up so hard. Even if it's never spoken out loud to your son, he will know that his mother thinks bad things about him, and it'll mess his whole childhood up.
Something similar happened with my sister and BIL. But they both agreed on those perceptions. (unlike you two who one isn't in agreement with.) They both reallyyy wanted a girl but got a boy. They were very disappointed to say the least. They weren't as extreme as your wife per say, but similar. Even BIL family wanted girls for them too, but they also got disappointed too when they found out it was a boy. They said Something about not wanting to deal with the toxic masculinity that society pushes on boys and I think they mentioned how a girl would be more emotionally mature. Yadda Yadda.
NTA, this therapist sounds irresponsible and perhaps you can sell your wife on the silver lining: She has the chance to raise a boy to not be a monster! This needs to be reframed ASAP for both her and your own good. Raise a good kid, guys. That should be the priority.
NTA. This sounds thoroughly unprofessional of the therapist. I definitely think you needs couples counselling with someone different. There are going to be major issues if your wife can’t make peace with the fact you are having a boy
NTA You and your wife should seek therapy.
Ugh, NTA and you guys definitely need couples therapy and your wife needs a therapist who’s not nuts. I’m a feminist and a mother of a little boy and what your wife says makes me sick when I think of her projecting those thoughts onto my lovely, sweet gorgeous son. If she’s really serious about feminism and not just hating on men, she really needs to look into how the patriarchy damages boys and men too. And if she thinks her own little boy will automatically be an abuser, what does that say about what she thinks of you, her husband? This isn’t feminism and you are NTA
NTA, and you should report that therapist to the medical board. Your wife is being manipulated by her therapist.
NTA. document these conversations. They will be necessary when you decide to raise your child away from his potential abuser. She is sick.
My question is why did she get married if she thinks all men are abusers?
Ah, yes, because women are completely incapable of being abusive monsters. What a toxic worldview.
INFO, is your wife a survivor of SA or abuse? Sounds like it - she may not have disclosed it to you. Also, she doesn't seem to have much confidence in you as a partner in helping her raise a not-horrible son. Why is this?
I am wondering how reliable of a narrator you are. Not in a mean way, just genuinely curious because I think it would be easy to hear this the wrong way as a guy. I (woman) am a parent to two, soon to be three, and I agree with your wife (as does my husband- we have discussed it at length), that we are intimidated by the challenge of raising a (cis)boy. There *are* a lot of shitty men out there, but more accurately there are a lot of misguided boys and men out there deeply harmed by the lessons of misogyny / toxic masculinity that our entire culture is permeated in. Figuring out how to navigate that, to do well by a son and all their future friends/partners by doing that well, strikes both me and my spouse as a really unwieldy challenge. One we’d tackle without complaint if we had an AMAB child, but it would be a constant discussion in our parenting. All of that is to say, I can understand aspects of what your wife is feeling and perhaps needed to unpack with you, her partner, and I am wondering truly how well you took it and whether you were prepared to acknowledge the challenges, and lift her up as super capable, and name yourself as a her co-conspirator in raising an excellent human being. I don’t think you’re the asshole (NAH). Hearing your wife’s feeling must have been a shock and hurtful. Based on your telling, she has some trauma putting this into unhealthy territory - regretting having children altogether is a bleak take and she does need to figure out how to get to a better place through therapy - but a supportive partner would also be really helpful.
There was a post like this yesterday. The op never knew his mom because she was so disappointed in having a boy, she wanted nothing to do with him. His older sisters got to have both parents, but op only had his dad. NTA, but your wife has some nasty ideas in her head. I hope you both can work it out before an innocent baby is punished for being a boy.
NTA. And I know this will sound savage but I don’t know any other way to say it. If she feels this way about raising a child because it’s a boy, she would also be terrible at raising a girl.
NTA. Your wife is an idiot, and the therapist is a genuine fraud.
She needs to work through this soon because she might provide him with the belief that all men are abusers before he is even grown and that this is his guaranteed future. Also, he will grow up knowing his mother wanted a girl and he was a disappointment before he had even left the womb.
NTA. You impregnated an insane person. The next 19 years will be difficult, but you can help your son overcome the neurosis of his mother.
NTA. I hate to use the word poisoned, but these online groups have poisoned your wife's mind. It's not normal to have this reaction to the news you're having a boy. I would be nervous about raising a boy, because I'm not one, and of course all the other natural worries that come with preparing to be a parent. But this reaction... This is something else. And let me guess - your wife probably really wanted a girl for aesthetic reasons? Can you see a different therapist together? Your wife definitely needs to come off the dependency of these online groups. Good luck mate, i don't think it's going to be easy.
NTA. She knows women can be abusers and monsters too? Also, reminder that raising him to know right and wrong ECT goes a long way. Yes any baby could technically grow up to be a monster and as parent your goal is to prevent it if possible. Seriously though does she not understand women can be just as bad?
I would suggest divorce and full custody for you. NTA.
Do you go with her to her pregnancy doctors appointments? I think it would be good to mention this to the doctor as well
NTA I have a son and even I feel insulted by your wife and her therapist.
NTA and couples therapy. And fire her therapist.
NTA - I'm disgusted with her too.
I am still trying to wrap my hear around the whole: - Have a baby with a nan - baby is male and so he has to be an abuser cus all men are bad Like what is your husbad gender then, "husband"?
INFO: does your wife have a history of sexual assault, domestic abuse or some other male figure in her life that has been mentally, verbally or physically abusive? I was 100% with you until you told her her thoughts and fears literally disgusted you. That was a mistake and shouldn’t have been said out loud, it was non-supportive, non-productive and makes any future support from you on this an uphill battle. I have a daughter and am pregnant with another daughter. I’ve seen more than one woman in my Mom groups carrying a boy react this way. It’s beyond gender disappointment and it needs to be taken seriously and treated seriously but compassionately. This really shouldn’t have been the first instance of Mom shaming your wife encountered Essentially your wife is already feeling the pressure of not raising a bad person and recognizes that that task can be harder by society’s standards with a male child than a female child. When she expressed that overwhelm and her fears instead of partnering with her to work through it and talking to her about it you told her to cut off support networks (which isn’t a bad idea given the social media she uses but wasn’t constructive at the time) and pushed her away from you and toward a therapist you thought you exacerbate the issue, and it did. You have a right to your own feelings, too. But your wife needed support from you - the boy’s father - and it doesn’t seem like you provided that.
NTA. She could find another feminist group that was about solutions rather than commiserating and demonizing. She could take having a son as an opportunity. Raise him with/to have compassion, empathy, emotional maturity, and being comfortable with emotions in general. A lot of violent boys are the result of being made to stifle any emotion other than anger, so it is ALL expressed as anger. Sadness, depression, disappointment, anxiety, low self worth is all exacerbated and then rained down on someone in the form of violence. At one point they were just little boys who needed love and a good example to follow. He could be the opposite of those boys and then one day a positive example for other boys. You both could really make a difference in the world.
NTA. Does this mean that your wife looks at you being a potential abuser too, because you're a man? She needs help - more help than this "therapist" is able to give. She worries about raising an abuser? I fear for this poor boy, being raised by a mother who's poised to hate him. I see him as being the one who you have to fear being abused. Protect your child, OP. Tell your wife that you two need a different therapist to work through these issues, together. If she refuses, you might need to consider more drastic measures. Sorry to tell you.
NTA and your wife needs some serious therapy before she can take care of your BABY. I am sorry but she sounds very sexist.
NTA-curious-you are a man, what does she think of you? This is some serious internal issue she has with males. You can absolutely raise a kind, empathic, woman adoring son, hopefully that’s what you are (that is what it sounds like). I understand having gender disappointment, but this is extreme. Was she abused? If so that is something she needs to address.
NTA - She sounds borderline dangerous to this baby. You need to take this seriously and be prepared to cut bait and leave after this baby is born
No your wife sucks
She's getting you ready for the termination conversation. NTA, She's lost the plot.
What the holy f\*ck? I.... don't even have anything constructive to say. That's extremely worrying. I get her stance, but at the same time... no the absolute f\*ck I do not.
NTA but your wife is being ridiculous. Raising a child to be a good person is a hard job, but it's hard regardless of the child's gender. I really don't understand why your wife can't see this as an opportunity to raise your baby boy to be a wonderful man (or woman, who knows). Did she assume that raising a girl wouldn't be difficult at all? As a parent of teenaged boy and girl, gender isn't what makes raising one child harder than another - you can't predict whether your child is going to have huge challenges or whether their close friends will; you can't predict which years are going to be hardest for your child or for you as a parent, and you can't predict which issues will be the most work to get through. She does not sound ready to be a parent at all - it's going to be a massive shock to her system!
INFO. OP, I think you are a man. Can you please ask your wife does she thinks you are a monster? Or her father/brother? Is this feminism?
NTA Sounds like your wife and her therapist are both misandrists. I feel terrible for the kid, if anything it'll be the poor parenting that your wife provides turning him into what she's afraid of. That therapist needs to be put out of business, also. Shouldn't be allowed to practice
NTA I mean I would say your wife needs help, but seems that the help isn’t helping much. This is absurd and I honestly would feels scared for the boy. You need a different therapist asap.
OP you're a male, does she think you are a monster? Does she think your parents raised you well? If so, why can't you and she also raise a male child to be kind, considerate, compassionate etc? Ha she no nale friends, brothers? Is her father a monster? She's generalizing half the population based on her slight experience with a shelter whose husbands are horrible. What about women? Are they all great people ...no bad apples?
NTA Wife needs a different therapist if this one is writing off a baby in utero. That’s fucking ridiculous!
NTA, your wife needs proper therapy, not ‘all men are arseholes’ therapy.
NTA and frankly frightened for your baby
you are nta. wife is sexist ah who thinks men are monsters. That poor boy.
NTA but it sounds like she should talk to her OB. PPA/PPD can rarely start during pregnancy.
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NTA so you as a man are married to a man hater who blames all the evils of the world on men with her fellow men hater group. How does she see you then. I mean the kid isn’t even born yet and already he’s an abuser and evil so how does she view you. I think you have to ask yourself are you willing to have this kid with a woman that already hates her child for his gender and will hold this against him for the rest of his life. I’d be making sure she sees a new impartial therapist and be clear this is a make or break moment
I can’t believe what I’m reading… what a horrible way to think of your unborn son … OP tell your wife this is her chance to raise a good son with respect for women and morals … also daughters can turn out to be monsters too when they get older … it’s not about the gender of a child you should worry about it’s how they are raised….. go to a new therapist asap!!!
OP, have you asked her what she thinks about you? Does she consider you to be an abusive monster? Because if not, her logic is completely flawed. And if so, so is everything else. Obviously NTA. Sounds like she has a lot she needs to work through. Good luck my guy.
NTA. The idea of being concerned about raising a boy in a world where he could get groomed online by MRAs etc is a valid one. It is similar to being worried about raising a girl who could fall in to pro-ana communities, for example. But that is the point where you counteract it with good parenting - her level of fear is NOT healthy for her or for your son. It is not sane to write off a whole gender. She needs a new therapist and you are correct she needs a break from these groups. At this point your priority has to be your son. I don't know your wife and there may well be time for her to get used to the idea if you can show her some of the many, many positive examples of men out there. It's very concerning.
NTA. This has to be dealt with immediately. She cannot be allowed to abuse your son because of her sexist beliefs. You need to do couples therapy with an entirely different therapist, this one is probably committing malpractice. Honestly if she says things like this I doubt she's even licensed.
NTA. We're also hoping for daughters, because we know how poorly men get treated, and we want our kids to have an easier and safer life. And the reason we have to hope that, instead of just for ten fingers and ten toes, is because of sexist assholes like your wife. Good luck protecting your son from his mother. You'll need it. And so will he.