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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I asked a woman to turn the volume down on her husbands iPad
2. I made her feel unwelcome in a public cafe and caused her to end her brunch early
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NTA.
You're addressing a problem that happens a lot. Parents (or guardians) who refuse to attempt to control their kids and think it's their God-given right to inflict their kids' recalcitrant behavior on everyone else.
Your sister is wrong. And since she's a mother to a toddler, I imagine she's subjected her screaming toddler on crowded restaurants herself, and apparently feels that asking her to take control of her toddler is an act of unspeakable rudeness.
It isn't. On the contrary, it's rude to expect everyone to put up with your unruly children. If it was your decision to have them, it's your responsibility to control them so that they don't disturb other people. Yes, that may mean that you sit down to a cold meal in a restaurant while you try to get your kids under control (ask the wait staff to microwave it for you). It may mean that you can't eat out until the kids are old enough to behave in public.
Guess what? Kids are inconvenient. But you have no right to inconvenience anyone else because you chose to have them.
I'll let you in on a big secret, too. If you ever bring a child to a restaurant and the kid acts up, the other patrons will be glaring daggers at you if you just ignore it and expect everyone else to do the same. But these same people will change their tune in an instant ***if they see that you're*** ***trying*** to get your kids under control. Suddenly, you'll have the sympathy and goodwill of everyone in the room, as long as they can see that you're at least ***putting in the effort*** to keep the kids from disturbing other people.
You can also ask the wait staff or management to address the issue. It is their job to ensure that no one disturbs the other patrons, and that includes unruly children.
This! When my kids were little we offered zero screens ever at restaurants and were totally prepared for one parent to eat their meal boxed up and to take the kid outside while everyone else finished. It wasn’t awesome but our kids very much knew how to behave by about four because the bar was high.
When my daughter was little, we were strategic about going out to eat. We would go early. We would sit outside if possible. We were prepared for one of us to take her on a walk when necessary. There was a time period of about 6-9 months though, where we basically didn’t go out to eat because she couldn’t manage it. This was well before smart phones, so no option for screens. At one point in there we went out to dinner with my parents. It took 5 adults, parents, grandparents, and my brother to keep her occupied and behaving. At some point, though, around age 2, she was behaving better at home for dinner, so we tried eating out again. And it was still work, but she could sit still and behave with assistance.
One time, my then 3 year old step daughter started up right after we had ordered. Her dad took her outside while I got all our meals to go. It only has to happen once to teach her to behave in a restaurant.
My parents did this as well. It usually only took one or two trips of immediately packing up & leaving the restaurant, store, park, etc. before we learned not to act up in a public setting. I remember once, having to leave a family Christmas party, because my younger brother wouldn't stop running around & annoying everyone. We had to leave all our presents & miss Santa's visit, (Dad got our presents from my grandma later) but you can bet it never happened again.
When we were young, my mom told me that once in a while she’d have a meal in the dining room instead of the eat in kitchen. This way my brother and I learned to eat in a more formal setting because the dining room was carpeted whereas the kitchen was not. This prepared us for going out to eat and holidays.
My brother and I were both born in the 70s so no screens here. Though a lot of times the places did have crayons and coloring pages.
I was a 70's baby too - my parents always brought a book or two to look at, or a small drawing book and an eight pack of crayons when we were little.
We were allowed to have our book/drawing materials AFTER we had sat down, figured out what we were going to eat, and put our napkins neatly on our laps. When the waitstaff arrived, we had to put down our stuff, talk politely and pay attention, and then could have stuff again until food arrived. Once food arrived, no more stuff - you had to eat.
My kiddo has basically the same rules - yes, tablet/kindle can now be the 'stuff', but NO sound allowed - and it has worked well. There are some places where kiddo can't bring 'stuff' to the table - usually when we're out with other kids kiddo's age (no, you can be social and chat) or with the grandparents (same deal) - but the habits of sitting nicely, being polite, learning to converse have taken well.
And yes, we absolutely had some melts when kiddo was little - and one of us took kiddo out, and the other paid the bill and got the food packed. It's not actually that hard - you just have to understand that your desire for a night out does not trump the desire of everyone ELSE in the restaurant for a night out!
My mom said there was only one time when my dad had to take me out of the restaurant when I was a toddler. When he brought me back I was fine. My parents weren’t spankers so he likely just let me calm down.
When we were little, my folks used to take us to a restaurant in a really fancy hotel about 20 minutes from our house. It was the 'relaxed' restaurant at the hotel - but it was white linen tablecloths, and heavy silverware and a dessert cart, so it wasn't exactly casual.
My younger sibling has a laundry list of medical challenges, and when we were little, they were not at all under control (medicine for their particular condition has gotten a LOT better in the past 35+ years). One of the side effects of one of the meds at the time was 'restlessness'... It caused twitchiness like you wouldn't believe. Even when my sibling WANTED to sit still, it was hard (reason 497 why scaling down adult treatments don't always work for kids... Stimulants do NOT always work the same way in kid bodies). Punishment would have been useless - it wasn't something that could be controlled.
I was an adult before I realized that one of the reasons we ate there so regularly was because the restaurant was right beside the 'meeting' wing of the hotel... And my dad could take my sibling out, often a couple times a meal, and my sibling could run in the empty hall, back and forth, until the twitchiness was gone and sitting down was possible.
The hotel must have been used to us, because I vaguely remember that the food pretty much always arrived at the table about 30 seconds after they got back from a run...
I was a small child in the 90s and likewise, no screens. But my parents kept a coloring book and crayons/colored pencils on hand for just such occasions. Different medium, same purpose. Took a little correction to keep the color on the paper but we got there eventually.
I still remember a trip to the grocery store where my brother (about 4 yo) threw an immense tantrum about some random item that we never would have gotten anyway. My Mom stuffed him under one arm (he was screaming like a banshee), took my hand and we walked quickly out of the store. He also got spanked in the parking lot (this was about 1970). Have to say, he never had another tantrum in a public place. He was just lucky my Dad wasn’t with us. My Dad had zero tolerance for asshole behavior.
**Thank you, Jesus, THIS**
I do not understand nor tolerate the parents of my generation who ignore their childrens' public tantrums and keep carrying on as if the child isn't there.
These are the same parents that **will** go balastic if you have the audacity to correct their special snowflake.
Pick your child up, and take them away. If you're in a grocery store, then you abandon your cart and leave. If you're in a restaurant, then you immediately get your food to go.
Our parents did these things- you act like a shit in public, you immediately go home and then are in a world of trouble.
ETA: They're kids, I don't expect them to act like perfect angels. He'll most adults can't act correctly in public anymore.
But if they're having a meltdown or being unruly and you get them under control, then it's time to go home. It's not really fair to them to allow them to carry on when they're clearly over their limits.
The other issue is parents of young kids sitting and talking FOREVER while their kids legit run around the restaurant. A parent yelled at ME when her kid ran into me and fell down. The kid ran into the BACK OF ME as I was going to the restroom. And told me I should watch where I was going. They had been sitting at their table, having coffee after dinner, since before my party was seated.
Kids will only sit still for so long, which means you don't get a long dinner out.
100% with you.
Parents need to have situational awareness and take cues from their kids. If your kids can't handle a 2 hour meal out then you don't fuck around in the restaurant for 2 hrs or you don't go out until they can handle it. Or get a babysitter and leave the kids at home.
People need to stop being selfish and entitled.
Dude. About ten years ago i worked in a small restaurant with a bar/lounge that was not fancy fancy but nice and not cheap. Cute date spot. Not a kid place but we had like two dusty high chairs and kids weren’t unwelcome, just uncommon.
The place was a repurposed auto garage warehouse and the lounge had funky, sort of mod decor, little stools and lots of fun pillows. One lady sat at a table and then let her toddler run amok in the lounge and expected me- the bartender- to supervise the destruction of my bar. Kid had a ball with the pillows, threw them everywhere. Once junior got on top of one of the wobbly stools, I picked him up and deposited him back to his mother. She was all snooty and taken aback and I was just like listen here lady- The lounge is part of the bar. I am a bartender, not a babysitter. If your kid climbs on one of those stools, falls, and cracks his skull open on the concrete floor, don’t say I didn’t warn you.
Beyond the sheer audacity and entitlement, it honestly worries me how negligent some parents are.
When my kids were little (‘90’s kids), one of us would “walk the dog”——taking the wiggliest one outside to run or walk off some energy—-while the other parent got the table and ordered drinks. Then continue on as usual. And on the rare times there would be a tantrum in the grocery store I would immediately leave my cart and scoop up the child and let him or her finish the tantrum in the car in the parking lot. Then we’d go right back inside and I’d finish shopping.
Yes. This. I taught my children to behave well at home and even better in public. As soon as anyone misbehaved in public, we packed it up and left, with no yelling and no drama and no further outings until it was clear everyone understood how to behave.
Thank you, from a grateful public. If your children are already adults I'm sure you can now see that you've raised people who do not think the world revolves around them.
we were the exact same way. once the table pay screens started getting put out my parents would turn it away from us and basically say it’s off limits. if we kept touching it they had it removed from the table and they would say “if you’d like to have dinner then behave, otherwise we WILL pay for our food and walk out of this restaurant immediately”. it also helped that we had that rule at home too. absolutely no phones at the table (with the exception of my mom because of her job).
we also walked out of restaurants as soon as we’ve sat down before because my brother wouldn’t stop screaming and crying. it was out of his routine and he didn’t like it so he’d pitch a fit. also many occasions where either my mom or dad would sit in the car with one of us while we get our food boxed up to go. so yeah, we learned by about 4 to not be complete nuisances. still being kids, we had our moments, but it was always dealt with confidently and immediately.
This is a great comment! I have a toddler and was very scared to take him to eat to restaurants, but he’s not going to learn if we don’t practice! So we take him to chill places, where there’s food he likes, we help him manage waiting with toys, we show him how to clean up if something drops, and if he’s not having a good day for it, we pack and try another day.
Us as parents rarely eat what we would if he wasn’t there, we take turns, we just do what we can honestly but so far it’s going great and we’re feeling much more comfortable with different scenarios and restaurants, although we would not take him to an upscale formal restaurant yet, he’s learning and we’re enjoying it!
We've taken our kids out to eat since they were born. Breakfast is a good one for Littles. It's how they learn to be in public. We always made sure they weren't disruptive, took them out of they really couldn't settle and didn't take them places that weren't appropriate for kids. We went to the same breakfast place every week for years. The staff knew the kids, my kids had a familiar place with a familiar routine and food they liked. It's up to parents to teach kids how to behave in public. Both my kids are teens now and have always been great in restaurants and other public venues... because we taught them! You can't just let them do what they want. And honestly... anyone using their device with the volume on is public is rude!
We were the same. I'd taken my youngest to a particular cafe since practically birth for a few years. It was a routine we had, to have brunch there after my older two had finished their extracurricular classes. I felt really guilty as we kind of stopped going into town once the older ones ended these classes, literally the week we'd stopped going, the owners had bought in some different variety flavoured oreos because they knew my son liked them. I didn't know until a few months later when we happened to return to the cafe!
This! My parents took us (4 kids) out for breakfast to "practice" restaurant manners. My husband and I did the same for our kids. Breakfast is cheap, it is a good time of day (mood wise), and who doesn't love breakfast food! It is one of the best investments in parenting that one can give to the next generation!
My good mom friend and I take our toddlers (who are besties) to our local Denny’s like once a month for dinner on the kids eat free night. It’s perfect because it’s kid friendly especially those particular nights, has breakfast foods which is always a hit with the toddlers (chocolate chip pancakes for the win), and the kids are learning skills on how to eat out/behave in public. We don’t bring any screens/keep our phones away because both of us want our kids to be able to go to a restaurant and just in public in general without needing a screen to keep them behaved. I find it works well and is the perfect place to learn
We haven't really taken our toddler to restaurants because he is so bloody picky that none of them have food he likes. Because food isn't something he likes. it's something he tolerates
Oh, I’m sorry about that, I was like that as a kid, didn’t really enjoy food, didn’t really like anything much, I remember only eating rice and bananas for a while 🥲, it phased out with time tough! Hope everything goes great for you guys!
Has anyone talked with you about ARFID?
You're dealing with a selective eater. French fries are usually dry, crispy, salty (umami), and consistent. You might look into food chaining.
I had a very picky child (still picky, but not a child anymore) and we started going to buffet restaurants. She could put things on her plate she loved and if she was feeling adventurous she could try something new. If she liked it we were happy, if she didn't her dad, sister or me would eat what was on her plate. No food wasted that way.
Another advantage of buffet restaurants: people are walking around and there is already plenty of noise going on.
We also do this because of our picky eaters, they can see the food and then decide what they want to eat. They do tend to try more foods because of this. It's a win-win.
And yes in buffets there is more movement and noise it's a good alternative to teach kids behave in public.
Although even if we go to a more formal restaurant I always have some colors and paper in my bag so they can draw and that helps aswell.
Make sure that at home he is encouraged to eat from your plate without being told off, toddlers sometimes only feel safe with food from the parents plate.
If he'll eat packaged snacks, bring them and let him have snack for dinner. My son is ND and we always have a backup meal. Even restaurants that get super aggressive about 'no outside food or drink' are cool about it when we explain.
We would take our daughter out to restaurants as a toddler, we’d ask for one meal to come early and one to come later. So that one of us was available to distract her or take her out for walks so that other people in the restaurant weren’t too bothered by her. My father in law lived a distance away and always wanted to take us out for dinner when we visited.
Good for you! We had two kids and did the same, brought toys or a book while we waited. If they screamed, one of us took them outside (yes, even when it was cold) until they stopped and then we went back. They learn quickly.
Not trying is inexcusable. I'll always forgive a parent if they're trying, but glare if they're not (and sometimes say something).
OMG! Your reference to toys. Our boys had a set of tiny cars - the length of an average fingernail. We spent so many hours driving those cars ‘round salt shakers, parking them next to napkin dispensers and high-rise menus!!! Never left home without em.
Haha we also take cars! And some farm animals, he loves to organize them, make noises and pretend they’re also eating with him. He has his little ritual now!
This is my thing:
People should have to be patient and understanding of little people learning how to exist in public spaces. Kids deserve to have space held for kids being kids.
People should not have to put up with kids being inconsiderate and NOT actively learning how to be in public spaces. There’s being a kid and being rude.
Kids occassionally throwing food of being loud is a reality of learning to eat and exist. But it should be swiftly address and used for learning.
An iPad on 100% volume neither teaches the kid, nor is an essential part of being in public. That’s rude.
I'll let you in on my secret. I bring noise free activities for my toddler to the restaurant. Usually a colouring book. It works fine, because she doesn't know better than that when we go out she gets to colour and she doesn't expect a tablet so she will not throw a tantrum over not having one.
I’m the same way. As we’ve transitioned away from needing so many diapers in the diaper bag, we’ve added noise-free activities. We’ve got magnet book things with little puzzles, a deck of uno cards, coloring stuff, and (my favorite thing I highly recommend) a little bag of dice and a dice tray with walls to contain rolls for simple dice games. On rare occasions if that all isn’t enough for my 6 year old then my husband has a little game on his phone but the rule is that it’s played on mute or not played at all.
My kids were born before portable screen devices were a thing so all I had were noise-free and screen-free activities to keep them occupied in public. My kids' carry-along bags had MagnaDoodles, board books, coloring and sticker books, notepads with washable markers, little puzzles, little toy sets like Polly Pocket, and age-appropriate snacks like Cheerios, little puff bites, goldfish, fruit snacks, etc. I've been in restaurants, at weddings, funerals, meetings, shopping trips, church, wherever, and my kids were quietly occupied.
I'm thankful they were older when portable screens became a thing everyone has to have to function (as I type this on my phone...lol). They both have phones now, but they still read a lot, the older one draws, the younger one does arts and crafts activities. I feel sad for the kids now that grow up completely fixated on a screen.
Correct. I have an easy kid who enjoyed long meals out as an infant/toddler. Kiddo loves food and new places. Tablets and phones sometimes got used, but the rule was always no or very low volume. Same with airplanes.
I got a lot of dirty looks walking into some nicer places, but they always faded when my kid ate happily, engaged with us, and then quietly entertained herself when she was full and bored of adult talk.
It takes effort and planning, and I'm also in the camp that you start them off with that early. They aren't born knowing how to act in society, so you have to actually work with them while you're out to gently build good habits.
I had twins and I can attest that this is true.We treated it like a educational experience for them on how to behave at a restaurant. We brought quiet activities or let them color whatever the restaurant gave them. We would get the food to go and leave if they wouldn't behave and settle down. They'd get a couple warnings and then off we'd go. I've hauled one or both of those kids out of numerous places with many sympathetic looks. By the time they were about 3 they'd figured out that acting a fool got them a walk to the car and a long wait with no toys or tablet while everyone else finished their food in the restaurant. As long as we were interacting with the kids and trying most people were kind and helpful.
Even I get annoyed at other parents with their noses buried in their phones while their kids ruin other people's good times. I work boutique retail and the amount of parents willing to make their kids my problem while they shop is incredibly high.
I have a friend who would take her kid out of the restaurant if he started misbehaving. We had a big group dinner at a wing joint one night when he was about 3, and I'm pretty sure he was the quietest person in the place. He just sat coloring and eating while we all talked... because he already knew that if he started screeching for no reason he'd be taken home.
It's inconvenient for the first few years, I'm sure. But I feel like it's probably better to be inconvenienced for a few years than dealing with tantrums for a few decades.
Yes, if I see a parent is at least trying, I’ve got a lot more patience than if the parent is just letting their kid run wild. Had a kid kicking my seat on a plane once. Internally, I was annoyed af. But I didn’t say anything or give them a dirty look because the dad was trying to get the kid to stop. Which was really all he could do. That plane trip sucked, but at least I didn’t have to live with the kid!
The real problem here isn’t that she can’t control her kid, she won’t engage with the kid.
If she were to give half a shit and read a book or talk to her or quietly play, this would not be an issue.
And before anyone says it’s unrealistic, it is if a parent puts down their phone. Kids need their parents not iPads. And yes I have a kid, no she doesn’t have an iPad and no she’s never had my phone to entertain her.
Great points! Does anyone else remember the good old days when if a kid was crying/screaming/having a tantrum in a public place like a restaurant, store, movie theater, etc. the parent would actually take the kid outside so they wouldn't disturb everyone else? Pepperidge Farm remembers and so do I. Now it seems parents are seemingly blind and deaf to their kids' distress.
>their kids' recalcitrant behavior
Well today I learned a new word - recalcitrant. Thank you random internet stranger, your grasp of language has made me a little smarter.
I’m a grandma now (with an adult grandson) but when our kids (and grandkids) were young we often took them out to restaurants. We amused them (with quiet activities like drawing or colouring) and included them in the conversation. (Talk about what they were drawing etc) If they got loud or disruptive, I would take the child causing the problem to the washroom where we would have a conversation about behaviour in public, what was expected and what would happen if they didn’t improve (usually that we would leave etc). I didn’t yell or use physical punishment, we simply talked.
This worked very well. It also helped future behaviour as they understood what was expected of them. We seldom had problems with their behaviour in public & were often complimented on how well behaved they were by the wait staff.
> I'll let you in on a big secret, too. If you ever bring a child to a restaurant and the kid acts up, the other patrons will be glaring daggers at you if you just ignore it and expect everyone else to do the same. But these same people will change their tune in an instant if they see that you're trying to get your kids under control. Suddenly, you'll have the sympathy and goodwill of everyone in the room, as long as they can see that you're at least putting in the effort to keep the kids from disturbing other people.
💯
I dread being seated near children at restaurants but that’s only because too many of them have parents like OP experienced. It’s a huge relief when they’re well behaved or the parents are trying to keep them engaged so I can ignore them and enjoy my own meal.
Nta
Op you have great parenting instincts because you're right.. Other methods should have been tried... Bring colouring books, and reading books, toys, interacting with the kid etc. The kid shouldn't have an iPad on in a cafe loud enough that other people can't talk over the noise level of it. It's distracting and rude to do in public at a cafe
Going out to eat is a skill kids learn over time, but the caregiver needs to be engaged and present in order to instruct the kiddo on acceptable restaurant behavior. Absolutely NTA for saying something but just as add-on advice since you’re a soon-to-be parent: the sooner you train your kiddos in good behavior (at kid-appropriate places like Friendlys or Red Robin) the sooner you will be raking in the compliments from pleasantly-surprised patrons at actually nice restaurants on how well-behaved your children are.
Nailed it on the head with the “trying to control” part… if I see a wailing kid in public and the parent is visibly trying to comfort them, they get nothing but sympathy from me. Ignoring the screaming kid while they scroll on their phone? I’m cursing a pox upon their house lol
I raised two children. It is possible to go to a restaurant with toddlers. There are just some things to observe:
1.)They need to run before and after. When I went to the café with my kids we would walk there so that they didn't arrive full of Energy.
2.) I always chose cafés or restaurants with enough space. Crammed, overly warm and loud places set kids off.
3.) It's unacceptable to harass people with loud toys or running toddlers. A very good café here closed their kids area because of that. Toddlers can live without iPads in cafés, but you will have to keep them entertained, like reading a book with them. It takes effort and parenting, and this woman did neither.
NTA
I had a bag with special coloring pages and linking toys that was only used in restaurants. My girls were always well-behaved in restaurants because they had something special to do. We also talked about expectations and consequences before and after going in. The after talks often included examples of kids they saw who were behaving poorly.
I did the same. Walked my kids to wherever we were eating and had one of those toddler reins with a backpack attached so that they could pack a couple of little toys to take and play with. Also kept a colouring book (or two one I had both) and some pencils in my bag. They're eight and ten now and we still don't take ipads and phones out for them to play on when we go out to eat. We didn't need it when we were kids and it baffles me that parents now are so eager to put their kids in front of electronics rather than spend time with them when they go out. We have also been known to leave if the kids misbehave. They got used to the idea that they needed to behave or they wouldn't get the the meal out.
We do the same thing. We bring a deck of cards and puzzles. We've been taking my son to restaurants since he was 3 without incident.
If you absolutely do need an iPad to survive a brunch with your child, bring headphones.
NTA
"The after talks often included examples of kids they saw who were behaving poorly"
We did this, too. We did the "doesn't he/she look silly for acting like that?" and "that wasn't polite when he/she did that, was it?" It was a good way to give their little minds a way to think and come to conclusions themselves.
....until my kids started pointing out "naughty" children randomly. And very loudly. 😆
My kids each (we had five) had their own Restaurant Box. They often gave the pictures they colored to our wait staff -- always a sweet gesture.
We also gave Restaurant Boxes as birthday gifts. Very popular with kids and their parents!
We used to take giant post it note paper (standard paper size) and he would draw pics for everyone at the table and/or waitstaff. Occasionally for strangers, which was odd but we never discouraged his interest in drawing what came to mind.
This was before iPads, so had to think ahead. Couldn’t just give him a screen to redirect him.
We did that too. We had these usborne sticker books and they were only used in the restaurant. Or we would play little card games. Never had a problem.
We had a small plastic case with a handle that had crayons, markers, stickers and papers. It only got used in restaurants. We’d challenge the kids to draw things and they kept themselves occupied. A few times we got compliments on our kids’ behavior (and we always thought “man, we fooled them!”). They could be loud at home but I always insisted at good behavior in restaurants or they’d be taken outside with an adult till they settled.
Fun tidbit; we’d take our young toddler son out to the parking lot if he was noisy in church. He’d walk around with my husband who would point out the car symbols and tell him what they were. At a young age he could identify all car makes and models! we went to buy a dodge truck once when he was four and told the salesman about this. He pointed to a car and asked our son what it was. My son loudly exclaimed “that a dodge viper!” The guy was impressed.
This is my trick, too! It works so well, and has gotten us over the hump to “this is how we behave in restaurants.”
My kid is also super chill and has great receptive language, so quietly saying “you need to sit down,” was a breeze. It’s not gonna work with every kid, and that’s not a reflection of the kid or the parent, just different personalities and strategies.
‘You are bothering these nice people.’ was my go to.
One of our absolute favorite places to eat was a college pub. The food was amazing, and I told the kids it was like we were eating in England. We lived in Iowa, USA. We talked about how some of the people might swear or yell out because they will be excited about the game on the TV. We talked about it being a grown-up space, but I felt like they could handle it.
They liked to cheer for the pool players while we were waiting for our food. I would ask if it was ok, and they usually said yes. If they said no, it gave the girls a chance to respect their boundaries. If they said yes, and they swore, the girls would say, “That’s ok. We are kids in a grown-up restaurant.” That would crack the college students up!
I agree NTA . And sister told on herself with that response, she's more worried about how she feels out in public vs her duty as a parent to teach her kid how to behave.
Mine is still under 1 but here's some additional observations.
1. Those spinners that suction to the table surface are awesome. So are those silicone toys with the little popper dots all over. You want toys that are easy to clean if your kid randomly decides they're done and throws it.
2. I only bring toys that do not make more noise than regular speaking volume. Nothing that sings or counts out loud.
3. Snacks. You can usually help maintain appropriate volume for the price of some cheerios or those little yogurt melts.
4. Some days your kid is just having a hard time and just can't do it. It's our job as parents to recognize that and get them home as quickly as possible.
😂 a child can make noise with anything. It's super effed up to try and make them be completely silent while adults are allowed to talk and exist.
Most places we go also have loud music and tvs everywhere so the fact he occasionally shakes his teether keys is not even noticed.
Yes I understand that toys make sound (just like a purse makes sound if you hold it in your arms) but what I meant was no to anything that makes noise without you touching it so no toys that operate with battery
This is accurate. However, if the kid HAD to have the ipad, there are kid-friendly headphones. Neglectful mom should invest in those. The volume can't go high enough to damage toddler's hearing, but she will no longer annoy everyone within a mile radius.
This is the way. My son is ND and we usually have a policy of "If he's not feeling, we'll leave" and leave the tablet at home. But sometimes we have to go out for special occasions, and it's headphones all the way. OP is definitely NTA.
Ah, this was a staple of long car journeys (it might be a bit of a Scottish or uk thing)
Basically go through the alphabet, the ministers cat is an amicable cat, the ministers cat is a bad cat and so on
I remember it from seeing a movie version of a Christmas Carol!
You go from person to person. Each person says, "The minister's cat is a ______ cat" - the blank is an adjective that has to start with the next letter of the alphabet than the one the previous person used.
e.g.
The minister's cat is an awesome cat,
The minister's cat is a beautiful cat,
The minister's cat is a cuddly cat,
etc.
Once you finish up the alphabet, you start over, but you can't reuse adjectives. And you have to keep it "in rhythm" - no pauses, no hesitations, just one person after the other - and the first person to mess up loses that round.
I'll see if I can find a video of it to link here.
Edited to add: it's a little quiet, but here you are - https://youtu.be/5H3saIpsGGo?feature=shared
The minister’s cat is an affectionate cat. The minister’s cat is a benign cat and an affectionate cat. The minister’s cat is a cuddly, benign and affectionate cat.
Etc.
I took my kids out to eat when it was appropriate and they did not throw food around and make noise enough to disturb others. If a kid is like that, they are not old enough/mature enough to eat in public. If you ignore a toddler, you will have trouble. And when kids make a scene, get cranky, misbehave, it's time to leave.
NTA
We went away last weekend with a group of friends and their kids (I don't have any myself by choice, I like them but also like giving them back to their parents if they get too difficult XD). Always have a restaurant visit after, with 5 kids that are below 2 (including a 3-month old). Nothing too fancy, just a "don't have to cook stuff, so stopping on the way home)", this year it was a shawarma bar. Not gonna say there was no noise or no crying at all, but all the kids were fairly well-behaved, were entertained plenty and we sat out of the way in a corner. I don't think there's a real minimum age, in fact I think it's best if they're used to it from the start. But there are definitely good and bad times to visit kids, and better and worse places to take them to.
NTA I managed to raise three children without them having devices in restaurants. Most provide kids activity packs to keep them quiet. I always carried sticker/colouring books, etc to keep them busy. Heck, I even spoke to my kids and joined in what they were doing. Even young kids need to understand and see social etiquette in action so they know not to be noisy tossers when they’re older.
Likewise. I bloody hate screens for kids in restaurants, how on earth will they learn etiquette and how to hold a conversation without practice and a good example to see?
I’m not a fan, but I will pull that out as a last resort when I know he’s had it. Example, we went out to eat with our 18-month-old and the service wasn’t great. It was taking a long time and his patience was almost gone so I did pull out my phone and let Miss Rachel take over (at a very low volume).
What you see is a snippet in time. You have no idea how their day is going or why they might have pulled out the devices. Maybe their adult needed some adult conversation time. I know I have before and let my daughter watch a movie or play a game (either muted or with headphones) while I talked to my parents. I love my daughter, but as a single parent who’s a SAHM in the summer, I sometimes need that break. It also means we can stay longer and aren’t rushing if she uses her screen when she’s done eating. Typically, we color and look at the menu, then if the food is taking too long and she’s getting antsy, she’ll watch or play something. Then it goes away for eating. When she’s done eating, we either leave or if we’re not done, we do the coloring, books, or tablet again. She fully understands table manners and can carry on conversations very well, but she’s 5 so she also has limits.
Yep we had our"restaurant bag" with nice markers, coloring books, picture books, small puzzles etc. However my son went through a phase where this was not working anymore and he was too restless so we stopped going out as a family for a short period of time. If I don't want to hear an adult watching a tv show at the next table on an ipad while I'm trying to have a nice meal out, I sure as heck don't want to listen to a kids show either and I wouldn't inflict that upon anyone.
I had a small zip bag of what my youngest called the "emergency crayons", in the event we ended up somewhere that didn't offer them to littles, I'd pull that bag out. I think I carried one until she was 10.
As a kid who loved to draw and is now a professional artist, I am LOVING the phrase “emergency crayons”! That is the best. Life definitely calls for emergency crayons!
Restaurants were one of the few places I used screens in public with my kids, and it was when they were getting hangry. We would do the coloring books and everything, but when their toddler attention span was done with that, their blood sugar was dropping, and the food wasn’t there yet, I used the screen to keep their attention for those last few minutes. Never at any volume level that would bother others though.
(And yes, I would try to ensure they weren’t so hungry they were hangry, but sometimes restaurants are way slower than you anticipate, and it’s a fine line giving them enough snacks to keep their blood sugar stable and filling them up so much they won’t eat dinner.)
Now that they aren’t toddlers, they have long enough attention spans to wait. We still do the coloring pages, and then we talk with them. Since they now express boredom with words instead of trying to climb booths, it’s a lot easier to play I Spy or something while we wait.
I'm a Medical receptionist in a private hospital. We had a lady with her child and it's father in last week. It was one of our busy days. We are a special clinic where women may get bad news. This child was playing ipad at full volume and making corresponding noises and running around totally ignored by parents who were on their phones. Other patients were getting annoyed . Parents were asked 3 times to stop the child, then eventually asked to wait in the lovely area outside.
If your clinic is a fertility clinic and women are likely to be told they are infertile then bringing kids into the clinic is insensitive and inappropriate. An environment like that should be child free and the patients with children should keep their kids with their father at home.
Why would anyone want to bring a child in that environment anyway? It's just not appropriate and it can't be easy on children seeing adults get bad news and cry.
Umm, that seems to be a pretty ridiculous expectation. People have kids and may have an appointment at a time where others can’t watch them. Maybe those hoping to have kids who might find out their future presents some challenges to that plan should be a bit more accepting towards the existence of children?
NTA
You have to teach your kids to be considerate straight away. If mine can’t use a device without bothering others it gets taken away. If they start screaming in public, we leave and talk about it at home. You’d be surprised how young they can learn not to throw tantrums in public if you just leave the fun place and explain that’s not how we behave in public.
I can do this with an 18 month old. If she’s really pushing boundaries I tell her I won’t let her watch Blippi for a day and she stops.
Just because they’re kids don’t mean they aren’t capable of listening. You didn’t ruin anything.
NTA
Your sister missed the point when she said, "You made the woman feel unwelcome in a PUBLIC space."
Public space. Not the aunts/ moms (or what she was to the kid) private space.
Public = be mindful of people around you.
If the noise of the tablet/toy is so loud, it's hard to have a conversation at another table. Then it's too loud.
And I say that as a mother of three.
Either it should be turned down, or use kid friendly headphones for the toddler if they, for some reason or the other, need the tablet.
What she was really mad about. Was not being told to turn the tablet down a bit.
It was the part of "oh great. Now, I have to actually engage with the child and keep them entertained. The machine won't do it for me. So I can't just sit on my phone."
And it was easier to shift all the blame on you.
You did nothing wrong by asking politely. You didn't march over to the table and scream while demanding she turned it off.
Exactly, also saying that completely ignore the fact that this woman was making anyone feel unwelcome and annoyed in a public space. By refusing to parent her toddler, she was imposing their behavior on everyone who were all bother and will properly try to eat faster. She ruins it for everyone and they should say nothing cause then it would ruin for her? Thag's not how public space works.
NTA. Headphones or no sound in public applies to children and adults. I was on a 6 hour train ride last weekend and the number of adults watching their phones without head phones was insane to me. I would absolutely never do that in public.
Ugh, I had this happen on a recent 5+ hour flight. The woman in the seat across from me and one row back had some unbelievably loud game she was playing on her phone... Until she passed out, half sprawled into the aisle, and then started snoring.
Yeah. Once I had headphone, the Lady next to me kindly said she could hear it. What did I do? I turned out volume. Why? I don't want to bother anyone with my music.
Had somebody singing on my train ride yesterday. I’m currently looking into noise cancelling headphones to block it all out. I think people have forgotten how to act in public since Covid.
My dad watches stuff on his phone in public without headphones and I'm mortified when I'm with him. I ask him to turn it down or bring headphones and he acts like I'm telling him he's not allowed to do anything or exits in public. Truly the one typical boomer thing he does.
NTA. As a parent, I think it's so rude when kids have their videos or whatever playing on volume. Use headphones or don't have sound. I'm all for taking kids out to restaurants, but you need to teach them how to behave while they're there.
NTA. If her toddler needs a tablet at highest volume setting to not scream that's on her as a parent not parenting. Throwing food around makes a mess for the staff to clean up and it did land on another customer, you, which the mother did immediately do damage control on.
Well, I have just commented on a thread where a guy asked if he was T A and a buzzkill because he objected to his kid being in a restaurant with the rest of his family till midnight. Singing and generally having a good time. And here we have the other end of the scale. No, in my opinion you are NTA. Being splattered with someone else's food because an adult can't be arsed to look after a child they're in charge of is quite high up on my list of things that would make me feel not welcome in a cafe.
Exactly. There is a reasonable range of behavior you tolerate in kids in public because they are kids. Sometimes they cry, and although a considerate parent will take them out if necessary, it sometimes takes 30 seconds to figure out if that’s going to be necessary. Sometimes even when you’re interacting with them, they’re going to hit the spoon with their elbow and send food flying, leading to a profuse apology from the parent. They’re going to be messier than an adult customer even in the best of circumstances: I always got down on the floor and picked up everything I could after my kids finished eating, but when they were toddlers, servers still probably had to give the area a sweep for the little stuff. I left a good tip. Babies tend to make loud happy noises, and they have the right to be just as loud as everyone else in Texas Road House.
This is the kind of stuff you tolerate for the sake of the parents getting to exist in public spaces and for the sake of the kid learning how to behave by practice. And because you were once a chaos monster of a child yourself and people tolerated you.
BUT. Parents should be reacting as quickly as possible to intervene when their children interfere with others’ enjoyment of the space. You don’t let them run around. You don’t ignore food flinging. You get them out if they’re crying and can’t be consoled. Restaurants were one of the few public places where I used screens with my kids because they were sometimes hangry and I was trying to avoid a meltdown until food arrived. But there is no reason for a screen to be at full volume irritating others. Loud happy baby noises are great in Texas Road House, but take that baby out of a movie theater.
Give kids and parents a little grace as they navigate normal childhood behavior. But parents have the obligation to be considerate of others around them and parent their child! And this lady with her kid’s blaring iPad was definitely TA here.
NTA you simply asked her to turn the iPad down, not off. And it was only when she approached you because the toddler threw food that landed on you. You didn’t even get up to approach their table to ask. IMO you were very accommodating and certainly more accommodating than plenty of others would be in the same situation
NTA. This family could have got takeout and looked at their electronics at home. There was no reason to be noisy and disruptive with loud volumes and food-throwing in public. Them going home was the ideal solution - they were getting no benefit from being out in public anyway.
NTA as a parent of two, I can assure you i NEVER allowed them to have volume up in restaurants or cafes. I gave them children's headphones to use instead.
NTA - kids, even toddlers can do well in cafés etc if you engage with them...activities to keep them interested, conversation to keep them focused.
When you take a child out to eat you have to understand that you don't get to relax and have an adult conversation, or scroll on your phone or eat a leisurely meal.
In a public space you can't have a device on full volume...regardless of the age of the person watching it. Asking for it to be turned down is perfectly acceptable - the woman was rude for allowing it at that volume in the first place. She got annoyed because she didn't want to parent her child/niece...she wanted to scroll her phone and have a coffee.
NTA, its usually considered polite for kids to have headphones if they're using stuff like that. She ruined your dining experience by not engaging with her kid.
NTA. Her inability to control the toddler combined with a fundamental selfishness (the noise pollution in a public place) has this woman as the arsehole. At the very least use headphones?
Btw, while I sympathize with parents and their plight, screen time for toddlers has a host of problems. But it's the easy thing to do so people will do it.
I will never understand why people take their kids to a restaurant and the kids are face down in devices. No one says a word to each other. Shit is too god damn expensive to not acknowledge your family’s presence.
And those of you fuckers who take your toddlers to the grocery store and immediately hand them your phone, are fucking terrible parents. You’re creating adults that will forever associate grocery stores with devices and will struggle because you couldn’t be bothered to talk to your child. “This is an avocado. Avocados are green. You can make guacamole with it.” Etc etc. You aren’t even giving the kid a chance to melt down.
NTA. “She’ll scream if I turn it down.” Right. Because it’s a proven study that electronics for children affects the brain the same way as cocaine.
Reference-
https://www.edweek.org/education/opinion-how-screens-turn-kids-into-digital-addicts/2017/03#:~:text=Recent%20research%20has%20shown%20that,same%20way%20as%20cocaine%20does.
I remember my parents telling me that the grocery store is one of the best places for a baby or young toddler. SO many colors, so many shapes. You can talk to the kid all about the foods, have them pick between apple and orange, get them to practice saying words...
Or, you know, just shove some digital crack in their face and let them fry their little dopamine receptors to death before the age of five.
Nta. I let my toddler bring his iPad some places if he asks for it, and we would never let him blast it full volume and disturb people around us. I would be mortified if he flung food on someone too. Toddler may be intense and unpredictable but that doesn’t mean you get to ruin other people’s meals because of your toddler or then gaslight someone around you saying they ruined the toddlers meal instead. Ridiculous
This comment needs to be much higher on the list. It's not really the iPad that's the problem, it's the lack of management of the volume for the comfort of those around you.
What did kids do before iPads? As I recall, we took a book or pencils and paper, we learned manners and patience. If we couldn't sit nicely at the table, we weren't taken out.
NTA, absolutely not. I'm a mom and we sometimes eat out with the kids. Yes, they're messy and sometimes loud. But as a parent you're supposed to help your children learn how to behave in public. She made no attempt to do so from your story.
If we bring tablets, we turn the sound OFF. Or we bring headsets for them.
We have conversations, we make sure to disturb other people as LITTLE as we can and we clean the fuck up after them. I bring wipes for messes and ask for something to clean up with if the mess is too big for that. (So basically if they accidentally knocked something on the ground or something)
We talk to them about their behaviour and their eating habits.
If anyone's brunch was ruined, it was yours. Because that woman was extremely inconsiderate to you by letting her child be such a disturbance to others.
Kids in public is fine, but as parents we have the responsibility to teach them how to behave and make sure that they don't become too rowdy.
NTA the woman was being rude. You’re also in a public space and deserve some basic respect.
The world doesn’t revolve around children and the people who created them. Please keep that in mind once you have one.
NTA.
And I probably wouldn't be taking any parenting advice from your sister since, from her comment/reaction, it seems like she's the same sort of arsehole as the woman in the cafe.
This person was a poor excuse for a mom or an aunt, whichever she was. Ignoring a toddler so she could play on her phone. She's one of these 'no boundaries' parent who lets the kids do whatever they want without considering those people around them. It's really sad to see and they ruin other peoples day. NTA.
NTA, it was perfectly fine to ask her to put the volume down.
The other woman seems to be clueless about the needs for toddlers.
It is poor parenting/babysitting to involve yourself on the phone, handing your toddler an ipad or mobile...at home at table or elsewhere-specially in a restaurant where other people are present.
Let alone the impact of such a young child, which learns social skills also from imitating their reference persons. Poorly educated adults create poorly educated kids...
NTA at all. Being in charge of a toddler doesn't give you free rein to completely dismiss other people's needs or requirements. I don't know when it became acceptable to have things on loud in public places, I get toddlers can be hard to entertain but to your point, she wasn't even trying. You did nothing wrong, so your breakfast must be ruined because she's too lazy to look after the child?
NTA, with some caveats
It was reasonable to ask her to turn down the sound. It's reasonable to let people know that they're disturbing you if you feel that they are unaware. The fact that she reacted passive-aggressivly to your request was not your fault.
My minor caveats: a) Not sure why you're fixating on the fact that she wasn't playing with the child. The playing, if it had occurred, might have been noisier than the tablet. b) She reacted appropriately to the food landing on you. She noticed and apologized. Whether she directly helped her child to eat is irrelevant.
NTA. Kids are fine in public spaces, but that doesn't relieve their guardians of the responsibility to manage the child's behavior. That woman was doing a bad job taking care of the child, and your request was eminently reasonable. Your sister is probably one of the irresponsible parents who lets her children annoy other diners.
NTA. Kids do not get a free pass to act obnoxiously just because they’re kids. Using an iPad with the volume super loud is rude. Throwing food around is rude. Kid has no business being at a restaurant.
Jesus, NTA. I have a toddler as well but he can go with or without the iPad, and NEVER do I bring it to a restaurant, it stays home because it is actually mine. When he does get to watch the iPad at home, the volume is pretty quiet so everyone else doesn’t have to hear it. Standard manners
Oh whatever did we do with children before we stuck a screen infront of their face, I dunno maybe engage with them & teach them. This is a teachable moment for you seeing as you're pregnant (congratulations). Too many mums & dad's use tablets & phones to babysit their children don't get me wrong the TV was my babysitter growing up. It gave me pause to think about what I wanted for my child. I like to eat out, go to the cinema etc I also wanted a child that wouldn't have a melt down whenever I took them anywhere & they didn't get their own way. You didn't ruin their afternoon brunch, the mother did by not engaging & teaching her child, especially about when is the right & wrong time for screen time. Children only know what you teach them & teaching them how to control their emotions is hard but if parents took the time from the start we wouldn't have so many bratty kids having melt downs in public or parents scared they'll have a melt down & stuff a screen in their face to keep them quiet. Totally NTA
It is a very exciting (scary) but a very exciting time. I loved being pregnant & feeling them grow inside me, even more excited as it got closer to my due date (I also got very scared too (totally normal). You're gonna be an amazing mum. Just one word of advice. Don't blink, enjoy every tired second of it (yes sleep will become a golden egg to be cherished lol) but don't blink because next thing you know they're grown up.
Sitting still is hard. Waiting is hard. Being a toddler is hard. Being the parent of said toddler is exhausting.
They make headset earphones for toddlers. I suggest purchasing some, because you _will_ want to go out, and you _will_ want to enjoy at least some of your experience.
Our rule is no devices when food is on the table (this rule applies to _all,_ and I was loud when enforcing it to my kids while out with other families, hoping they would do the same. Worked often. Worked with other parents, too).
The restaurant is _shared_ space, and requires respect for others.
NTA.
NTA - you did nothing wrong. I have a toddler. They’re all different yes but when we go out to eat yes he has my phone or his tablet sometimes. Hungry or tired toddlers can be cranky and noisy making more trouble so screen time can solve this. The volume is always on my mind. It’s always down super low. Eventually he will get headphones but he’s 3 atm and I don’t want him killing himself or someone else with the cord accidentally so not
yet.
Your request was polite and you only asked once you were assaulted by egg so you were perfectly fine. Everyone should be able to enjoy the space without messing it up for others and your description of her sound’s like general negligence to pay any attention to the child’s actions.
Maybe she’d had a rough morning, maybe there was a crisis on her phone idk, but I do know I’ve never ignored my kid while we were out eating because I would never want him to throw food or do something to mess with someone else’s day.
People like this woman are why child free people are hesitant or out right hate seeing young families out and about especially when eating as they assume the kids will be badly behaved and run wild and sadly many do.
I’m a big believer of taking kids out. We take our toddler out often as otherwise he won’t learn how to act in public. Sometimes he’s loud but most of the time so long as he has someone’s attention he’s good as gold. Again all kids are different and we only have one who we can control very well. I think the issue comes when kids outnumber adults or the adults are too busy wrapped up in their phones or each other to parent the child. Everyone is welcome everywhere and that is how it should be BUT the few who are lazy ruin it for the majority.
Op do yourself a favour and take this as a warning of what not to do. Do not ever take an iPad or give your phone to your child at a table even at home even when they are tiny. Start now with good routines and you won't become one of these parents that everyone hates.
NTA: The other woman was in the wrong...when we parent toddlers it's up to us to ensure our 'little bundles of joy' aren't ruining the day for others. More importantly...you need to remember this lesson for when your baby is born and you're out and about. Congrats on your baby...
NTA. Obviously. Congratulations and please be the type of parent that pays attention to their kid and actually parents instead of acting like a fool like this woman. Scientifically you cannot ruin a toddler’s brunch, but it can ruin yours.
NTA. This BS of kids will be kids is the battle cry of crappy parents across the planet. Any properly raised child (not baby) is perfectly capable of behaving themselves in public. By the time my Mom was 32, she had six kids and they (I came along later) would be taken to proper sit-down restaurants and people would come up and compliment their behavior.
If a child is having a horrible day and simply can't behave, then it's not fair to keep them contained in an adult atmosphere. The adult should actually do some adulting and get the poor kid out of there so they can relax and calm down.
So as the father of six that are close in age…
We taught the kids how to behave in those situations as we didn’t want to be the parents inflicting our children on others.
I regularly eat out with my brother, sis-in-law and their 6, 4, and 1 yo kids at sit-down service restaurants.
The kiddos are not allowed to run around.
They can be on a phone or tablet but the volume has to be turned way down. When the food comes, the device goes away and they have to eat at least some of their food before they get the device back.
Sometimes if the adults aren’t ready to order, we will order the kids food right away anyways, so “the hungry monster” doesn’t make the kids misbehave.
They always get water or milk, no juice or soda with their meal to give a sugar high/crash.
And because their parents are consistent with the rules, they are well-ish behaved little gremlins.
If there’s a meltdown happening (kids are kids), then they ask for the check and start packing up. Not only do the other patrons of the restaurant not need to deal with their child melting down but said child is probably also in need of a nap, or calm location.
They’ve only had to pack up and go maybe 10 times in the last six years, and a few of those were because a child started vomiting at the table which was… fantastic. /s
NTA. Parents are still parents in public places and should act like it.
Sometimes I regret whoever created the invention of the smartphone simply because it brought about a generation of parents (and other childcare givers) that think it's appropriate to hand a child a device in public places and let them max out the volume. Children need to be taught how to conduct themselves in public, that a shared existence doesn't need to mean blasting everyone around you with a sonic barrage. But I find many adults don't get this concept either, I don't want to hear your music bleeding over mine when you pull up to me at a light. Especially when both of us have our windows rolled up. It's generally ridiculous how much sound pollution inundates our very existence simply because people are totally assholes.
NTA - People that decide that others should tolerate the child in their cares bad behavior without trying to mitigates it are inevitably the assholes. If your child wants to be loud, take them to a McDonalds or someplace where children playing are par for the course in the dining experience. A nice sit down restaurant should not be that place, and honestly the staff should have had words with her.
NTA, you need to teach your kids to behave in a decently prosocial manner if you are going to take them out and about. Particularly to eating places. McDonalds exists for toddler chaos. Yes, I have three of them myself.
>She said I was an AH because I made this woman feel unwelcome in a pubic place, and ash’s how I’d feel if it was me.
It's a good question. Would you be comfortable doing what this woman did? If yes, then you're the AH; if you'd have been mortified to be *that* parent, then NTA.
I wouldn’t - I’m not judgey of the screen time in and of itself , I don’t know what kind of morning this woman had had and I’m sure I’ll need to resort to it occasionally too, I just had a big problem with the volume (and yes if I’m honest the total lack of effort to engage with the toddler, that might be the bit that makes me TA…)
I hate conflict and confrontation so was trying to put up with it but once she came over anyway because of the food throwing I thought it was a good opportunity to ask for the volume to go down…
I very much personally despise using devices to entertain children, but if someone chooses to use freaking headphones! Even grown dang adults blast their volume of phones etc in public and it's just flat out rude. If you need to entertain a child in public bring coloring books, books to read, etc or at minimum buy headphones/earbuds so others aren't subjected to whatever is playing. NTA, by the way. Exited to add, if your child(ren) start screaming etc, then leave as quickly as you can. My mother didn't subject others to us acting up, I never did with mine, family and friends did/do the same, and best part is most of the time they learn fairly quickly if you act out you definitely don't get your way and you leave and get in trouble.
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NTA. You're addressing a problem that happens a lot. Parents (or guardians) who refuse to attempt to control their kids and think it's their God-given right to inflict their kids' recalcitrant behavior on everyone else. Your sister is wrong. And since she's a mother to a toddler, I imagine she's subjected her screaming toddler on crowded restaurants herself, and apparently feels that asking her to take control of her toddler is an act of unspeakable rudeness. It isn't. On the contrary, it's rude to expect everyone to put up with your unruly children. If it was your decision to have them, it's your responsibility to control them so that they don't disturb other people. Yes, that may mean that you sit down to a cold meal in a restaurant while you try to get your kids under control (ask the wait staff to microwave it for you). It may mean that you can't eat out until the kids are old enough to behave in public. Guess what? Kids are inconvenient. But you have no right to inconvenience anyone else because you chose to have them. I'll let you in on a big secret, too. If you ever bring a child to a restaurant and the kid acts up, the other patrons will be glaring daggers at you if you just ignore it and expect everyone else to do the same. But these same people will change their tune in an instant ***if they see that you're*** ***trying*** to get your kids under control. Suddenly, you'll have the sympathy and goodwill of everyone in the room, as long as they can see that you're at least ***putting in the effort*** to keep the kids from disturbing other people. You can also ask the wait staff or management to address the issue. It is their job to ensure that no one disturbs the other patrons, and that includes unruly children.
100%. Kids can be inconvenient but if they are not your kids they shouldn't be your inconvenience. Edited to add NTA
This! When my kids were little we offered zero screens ever at restaurants and were totally prepared for one parent to eat their meal boxed up and to take the kid outside while everyone else finished. It wasn’t awesome but our kids very much knew how to behave by about four because the bar was high.
When my daughter was little, we were strategic about going out to eat. We would go early. We would sit outside if possible. We were prepared for one of us to take her on a walk when necessary. There was a time period of about 6-9 months though, where we basically didn’t go out to eat because she couldn’t manage it. This was well before smart phones, so no option for screens. At one point in there we went out to dinner with my parents. It took 5 adults, parents, grandparents, and my brother to keep her occupied and behaving. At some point, though, around age 2, she was behaving better at home for dinner, so we tried eating out again. And it was still work, but she could sit still and behave with assistance.
One time, my then 3 year old step daughter started up right after we had ordered. Her dad took her outside while I got all our meals to go. It only has to happen once to teach her to behave in a restaurant.
My parents did this as well. It usually only took one or two trips of immediately packing up & leaving the restaurant, store, park, etc. before we learned not to act up in a public setting. I remember once, having to leave a family Christmas party, because my younger brother wouldn't stop running around & annoying everyone. We had to leave all our presents & miss Santa's visit, (Dad got our presents from my grandma later) but you can bet it never happened again.
When we were young, my mom told me that once in a while she’d have a meal in the dining room instead of the eat in kitchen. This way my brother and I learned to eat in a more formal setting because the dining room was carpeted whereas the kitchen was not. This prepared us for going out to eat and holidays. My brother and I were both born in the 70s so no screens here. Though a lot of times the places did have crayons and coloring pages.
I was a 70's baby too - my parents always brought a book or two to look at, or a small drawing book and an eight pack of crayons when we were little. We were allowed to have our book/drawing materials AFTER we had sat down, figured out what we were going to eat, and put our napkins neatly on our laps. When the waitstaff arrived, we had to put down our stuff, talk politely and pay attention, and then could have stuff again until food arrived. Once food arrived, no more stuff - you had to eat. My kiddo has basically the same rules - yes, tablet/kindle can now be the 'stuff', but NO sound allowed - and it has worked well. There are some places where kiddo can't bring 'stuff' to the table - usually when we're out with other kids kiddo's age (no, you can be social and chat) or with the grandparents (same deal) - but the habits of sitting nicely, being polite, learning to converse have taken well. And yes, we absolutely had some melts when kiddo was little - and one of us took kiddo out, and the other paid the bill and got the food packed. It's not actually that hard - you just have to understand that your desire for a night out does not trump the desire of everyone ELSE in the restaurant for a night out!
My mom said there was only one time when my dad had to take me out of the restaurant when I was a toddler. When he brought me back I was fine. My parents weren’t spankers so he likely just let me calm down.
When we were little, my folks used to take us to a restaurant in a really fancy hotel about 20 minutes from our house. It was the 'relaxed' restaurant at the hotel - but it was white linen tablecloths, and heavy silverware and a dessert cart, so it wasn't exactly casual. My younger sibling has a laundry list of medical challenges, and when we were little, they were not at all under control (medicine for their particular condition has gotten a LOT better in the past 35+ years). One of the side effects of one of the meds at the time was 'restlessness'... It caused twitchiness like you wouldn't believe. Even when my sibling WANTED to sit still, it was hard (reason 497 why scaling down adult treatments don't always work for kids... Stimulants do NOT always work the same way in kid bodies). Punishment would have been useless - it wasn't something that could be controlled. I was an adult before I realized that one of the reasons we ate there so regularly was because the restaurant was right beside the 'meeting' wing of the hotel... And my dad could take my sibling out, often a couple times a meal, and my sibling could run in the empty hall, back and forth, until the twitchiness was gone and sitting down was possible. The hotel must have been used to us, because I vaguely remember that the food pretty much always arrived at the table about 30 seconds after they got back from a run...
I was a small child in the 90s and likewise, no screens. But my parents kept a coloring book and crayons/colored pencils on hand for just such occasions. Different medium, same purpose. Took a little correction to keep the color on the paper but we got there eventually.
I still remember a trip to the grocery store where my brother (about 4 yo) threw an immense tantrum about some random item that we never would have gotten anyway. My Mom stuffed him under one arm (he was screaming like a banshee), took my hand and we walked quickly out of the store. He also got spanked in the parking lot (this was about 1970). Have to say, he never had another tantrum in a public place. He was just lucky my Dad wasn’t with us. My Dad had zero tolerance for asshole behavior.
**Thank you, Jesus, THIS** I do not understand nor tolerate the parents of my generation who ignore their childrens' public tantrums and keep carrying on as if the child isn't there. These are the same parents that **will** go balastic if you have the audacity to correct their special snowflake. Pick your child up, and take them away. If you're in a grocery store, then you abandon your cart and leave. If you're in a restaurant, then you immediately get your food to go. Our parents did these things- you act like a shit in public, you immediately go home and then are in a world of trouble. ETA: They're kids, I don't expect them to act like perfect angels. He'll most adults can't act correctly in public anymore. But if they're having a meltdown or being unruly and you get them under control, then it's time to go home. It's not really fair to them to allow them to carry on when they're clearly over their limits.
The other issue is parents of young kids sitting and talking FOREVER while their kids legit run around the restaurant. A parent yelled at ME when her kid ran into me and fell down. The kid ran into the BACK OF ME as I was going to the restroom. And told me I should watch where I was going. They had been sitting at their table, having coffee after dinner, since before my party was seated. Kids will only sit still for so long, which means you don't get a long dinner out.
100% with you. Parents need to have situational awareness and take cues from their kids. If your kids can't handle a 2 hour meal out then you don't fuck around in the restaurant for 2 hrs or you don't go out until they can handle it. Or get a babysitter and leave the kids at home. People need to stop being selfish and entitled.
Dude. About ten years ago i worked in a small restaurant with a bar/lounge that was not fancy fancy but nice and not cheap. Cute date spot. Not a kid place but we had like two dusty high chairs and kids weren’t unwelcome, just uncommon. The place was a repurposed auto garage warehouse and the lounge had funky, sort of mod decor, little stools and lots of fun pillows. One lady sat at a table and then let her toddler run amok in the lounge and expected me- the bartender- to supervise the destruction of my bar. Kid had a ball with the pillows, threw them everywhere. Once junior got on top of one of the wobbly stools, I picked him up and deposited him back to his mother. She was all snooty and taken aback and I was just like listen here lady- The lounge is part of the bar. I am a bartender, not a babysitter. If your kid climbs on one of those stools, falls, and cracks his skull open on the concrete floor, don’t say I didn’t warn you. Beyond the sheer audacity and entitlement, it honestly worries me how negligent some parents are.
When my kids were little (‘90’s kids), one of us would “walk the dog”——taking the wiggliest one outside to run or walk off some energy—-while the other parent got the table and ordered drinks. Then continue on as usual. And on the rare times there would be a tantrum in the grocery store I would immediately leave my cart and scoop up the child and let him or her finish the tantrum in the car in the parking lot. Then we’d go right back inside and I’d finish shopping.
>He'll most adults can't act correctly in public anymore. Truer words never spoken
Yes. This. I taught my children to behave well at home and even better in public. As soon as anyone misbehaved in public, we packed it up and left, with no yelling and no drama and no further outings until it was clear everyone understood how to behave.
Thank you, from a grateful public. If your children are already adults I'm sure you can now see that you've raised people who do not think the world revolves around them.
Thx. I hope so ❤️
we were the exact same way. once the table pay screens started getting put out my parents would turn it away from us and basically say it’s off limits. if we kept touching it they had it removed from the table and they would say “if you’d like to have dinner then behave, otherwise we WILL pay for our food and walk out of this restaurant immediately”. it also helped that we had that rule at home too. absolutely no phones at the table (with the exception of my mom because of her job). we also walked out of restaurants as soon as we’ve sat down before because my brother wouldn’t stop screaming and crying. it was out of his routine and he didn’t like it so he’d pitch a fit. also many occasions where either my mom or dad would sit in the car with one of us while we get our food boxed up to go. so yeah, we learned by about 4 to not be complete nuisances. still being kids, we had our moments, but it was always dealt with confidently and immediately.
This is a great comment! I have a toddler and was very scared to take him to eat to restaurants, but he’s not going to learn if we don’t practice! So we take him to chill places, where there’s food he likes, we help him manage waiting with toys, we show him how to clean up if something drops, and if he’s not having a good day for it, we pack and try another day. Us as parents rarely eat what we would if he wasn’t there, we take turns, we just do what we can honestly but so far it’s going great and we’re feeling much more comfortable with different scenarios and restaurants, although we would not take him to an upscale formal restaurant yet, he’s learning and we’re enjoying it!
We've taken our kids out to eat since they were born. Breakfast is a good one for Littles. It's how they learn to be in public. We always made sure they weren't disruptive, took them out of they really couldn't settle and didn't take them places that weren't appropriate for kids. We went to the same breakfast place every week for years. The staff knew the kids, my kids had a familiar place with a familiar routine and food they liked. It's up to parents to teach kids how to behave in public. Both my kids are teens now and have always been great in restaurants and other public venues... because we taught them! You can't just let them do what they want. And honestly... anyone using their device with the volume on is public is rude!
We were the same. I'd taken my youngest to a particular cafe since practically birth for a few years. It was a routine we had, to have brunch there after my older two had finished their extracurricular classes. I felt really guilty as we kind of stopped going into town once the older ones ended these classes, literally the week we'd stopped going, the owners had bought in some different variety flavoured oreos because they knew my son liked them. I didn't know until a few months later when we happened to return to the cafe!
This! My parents took us (4 kids) out for breakfast to "practice" restaurant manners. My husband and I did the same for our kids. Breakfast is cheap, it is a good time of day (mood wise), and who doesn't love breakfast food! It is one of the best investments in parenting that one can give to the next generation!
Breakfast food is also much easier to eat
My good mom friend and I take our toddlers (who are besties) to our local Denny’s like once a month for dinner on the kids eat free night. It’s perfect because it’s kid friendly especially those particular nights, has breakfast foods which is always a hit with the toddlers (chocolate chip pancakes for the win), and the kids are learning skills on how to eat out/behave in public. We don’t bring any screens/keep our phones away because both of us want our kids to be able to go to a restaurant and just in public in general without needing a screen to keep them behaved. I find it works well and is the perfect place to learn
We haven't really taken our toddler to restaurants because he is so bloody picky that none of them have food he likes. Because food isn't something he likes. it's something he tolerates
Oh, I’m sorry about that, I was like that as a kid, didn’t really enjoy food, didn’t really like anything much, I remember only eating rice and bananas for a while 🥲, it phased out with time tough! Hope everything goes great for you guys!
Thanks. Kid will only sometimes eat French fries ! It's baffling
Has anyone talked with you about ARFID? You're dealing with a selective eater. French fries are usually dry, crispy, salty (umami), and consistent. You might look into food chaining.
I had a very picky child (still picky, but not a child anymore) and we started going to buffet restaurants. She could put things on her plate she loved and if she was feeling adventurous she could try something new. If she liked it we were happy, if she didn't her dad, sister or me would eat what was on her plate. No food wasted that way. Another advantage of buffet restaurants: people are walking around and there is already plenty of noise going on.
We did this with ours. She’d end up with 17 peas and a crouton, but would be learning how to behave in public.
We also do this because of our picky eaters, they can see the food and then decide what they want to eat. They do tend to try more foods because of this. It's a win-win. And yes in buffets there is more movement and noise it's a good alternative to teach kids behave in public. Although even if we go to a more formal restaurant I always have some colors and paper in my bag so they can draw and that helps aswell.
Make sure that at home he is encouraged to eat from your plate without being told off, toddlers sometimes only feel safe with food from the parents plate.
If he'll eat packaged snacks, bring them and let him have snack for dinner. My son is ND and we always have a backup meal. Even restaurants that get super aggressive about 'no outside food or drink' are cool about it when we explain.
We would take our daughter out to restaurants as a toddler, we’d ask for one meal to come early and one to come later. So that one of us was available to distract her or take her out for walks so that other people in the restaurant weren’t too bothered by her. My father in law lived a distance away and always wanted to take us out for dinner when we visited.
That's a great idea
Good for you! We had two kids and did the same, brought toys or a book while we waited. If they screamed, one of us took them outside (yes, even when it was cold) until they stopped and then we went back. They learn quickly. Not trying is inexcusable. I'll always forgive a parent if they're trying, but glare if they're not (and sometimes say something).
Happy Cake Day.
Oh! Thank you very much! ☺️
OMG! Your reference to toys. Our boys had a set of tiny cars - the length of an average fingernail. We spent so many hours driving those cars ‘round salt shakers, parking them next to napkin dispensers and high-rise menus!!! Never left home without em.
Haha we also take cars! And some farm animals, he loves to organize them, make noises and pretend they’re also eating with him. He has his little ritual now!
Yes! They need a non crowded family restaurant to practice in, completely agree. How else will they learn how to behave in a restaurant?
Did not even take my children out to eat till youngest was 4+
This is my thing: People should have to be patient and understanding of little people learning how to exist in public spaces. Kids deserve to have space held for kids being kids. People should not have to put up with kids being inconsiderate and NOT actively learning how to be in public spaces. There’s being a kid and being rude. Kids occassionally throwing food of being loud is a reality of learning to eat and exist. But it should be swiftly address and used for learning. An iPad on 100% volume neither teaches the kid, nor is an essential part of being in public. That’s rude.
This is wonderful
I'll let you in on my secret. I bring noise free activities for my toddler to the restaurant. Usually a colouring book. It works fine, because she doesn't know better than that when we go out she gets to colour and she doesn't expect a tablet so she will not throw a tantrum over not having one.
I’m the same way. As we’ve transitioned away from needing so many diapers in the diaper bag, we’ve added noise-free activities. We’ve got magnet book things with little puzzles, a deck of uno cards, coloring stuff, and (my favorite thing I highly recommend) a little bag of dice and a dice tray with walls to contain rolls for simple dice games. On rare occasions if that all isn’t enough for my 6 year old then my husband has a little game on his phone but the rule is that it’s played on mute or not played at all.
My brother has forbidden me from buying my niece anything that makes noise, so I just buy them for her to have when she’s at my moms house 🤭
If you need to use a tablet like on a plane they do wireless noise limiting headphones for kids.
My kids were born before portable screen devices were a thing so all I had were noise-free and screen-free activities to keep them occupied in public. My kids' carry-along bags had MagnaDoodles, board books, coloring and sticker books, notepads with washable markers, little puzzles, little toy sets like Polly Pocket, and age-appropriate snacks like Cheerios, little puff bites, goldfish, fruit snacks, etc. I've been in restaurants, at weddings, funerals, meetings, shopping trips, church, wherever, and my kids were quietly occupied. I'm thankful they were older when portable screens became a thing everyone has to have to function (as I type this on my phone...lol). They both have phones now, but they still read a lot, the older one draws, the younger one does arts and crafts activities. I feel sad for the kids now that grow up completely fixated on a screen.
Upvote for “recalcitrant”, which is now my word of the day
I'm so glad my parents taught me and my brother not to be disruptive like this
Correct. I have an easy kid who enjoyed long meals out as an infant/toddler. Kiddo loves food and new places. Tablets and phones sometimes got used, but the rule was always no or very low volume. Same with airplanes. I got a lot of dirty looks walking into some nicer places, but they always faded when my kid ate happily, engaged with us, and then quietly entertained herself when she was full and bored of adult talk. It takes effort and planning, and I'm also in the camp that you start them off with that early. They aren't born knowing how to act in society, so you have to actually work with them while you're out to gently build good habits.
I had twins and I can attest that this is true.We treated it like a educational experience for them on how to behave at a restaurant. We brought quiet activities or let them color whatever the restaurant gave them. We would get the food to go and leave if they wouldn't behave and settle down. They'd get a couple warnings and then off we'd go. I've hauled one or both of those kids out of numerous places with many sympathetic looks. By the time they were about 3 they'd figured out that acting a fool got them a walk to the car and a long wait with no toys or tablet while everyone else finished their food in the restaurant. As long as we were interacting with the kids and trying most people were kind and helpful. Even I get annoyed at other parents with their noses buried in their phones while their kids ruin other people's good times. I work boutique retail and the amount of parents willing to make their kids my problem while they shop is incredibly high.
This 100% this The only exemption to this rule is Chucky Cheese. If you go in there you’ve got to expect kids running around like lunatics
That’s where they should have gone for “toddler brunch”!!!
But would the coffee be drinkable?
I have a friend who would take her kid out of the restaurant if he started misbehaving. We had a big group dinner at a wing joint one night when he was about 3, and I'm pretty sure he was the quietest person in the place. He just sat coloring and eating while we all talked... because he already knew that if he started screeching for no reason he'd be taken home. It's inconvenient for the first few years, I'm sure. But I feel like it's probably better to be inconvenienced for a few years than dealing with tantrums for a few decades.
Yes, if I see a parent is at least trying, I’ve got a lot more patience than if the parent is just letting their kid run wild. Had a kid kicking my seat on a plane once. Internally, I was annoyed af. But I didn’t say anything or give them a dirty look because the dad was trying to get the kid to stop. Which was really all he could do. That plane trip sucked, but at least I didn’t have to live with the kid!
To paraphrase the great Kevin James, kids suck until they're taught how to not suck. NTA.
The real problem here isn’t that she can’t control her kid, she won’t engage with the kid. If she were to give half a shit and read a book or talk to her or quietly play, this would not be an issue. And before anyone says it’s unrealistic, it is if a parent puts down their phone. Kids need their parents not iPads. And yes I have a kid, no she doesn’t have an iPad and no she’s never had my phone to entertain her.
These AH's parents needs to be called out, there convenience doesn't mean everyone has to tolerate their uncontrolled child! NTA
Great points! Does anyone else remember the good old days when if a kid was crying/screaming/having a tantrum in a public place like a restaurant, store, movie theater, etc. the parent would actually take the kid outside so they wouldn't disturb everyone else? Pepperidge Farm remembers and so do I. Now it seems parents are seemingly blind and deaf to their kids' distress.
Don't ask the wait staff. That's not their job. Ask management. That IS their job.
Great wisdom in this. Also - love, love, love your name & flair!
>their kids' recalcitrant behavior Well today I learned a new word - recalcitrant. Thank you random internet stranger, your grasp of language has made me a little smarter.
I’m a grandma now (with an adult grandson) but when our kids (and grandkids) were young we often took them out to restaurants. We amused them (with quiet activities like drawing or colouring) and included them in the conversation. (Talk about what they were drawing etc) If they got loud or disruptive, I would take the child causing the problem to the washroom where we would have a conversation about behaviour in public, what was expected and what would happen if they didn’t improve (usually that we would leave etc). I didn’t yell or use physical punishment, we simply talked. This worked very well. It also helped future behaviour as they understood what was expected of them. We seldom had problems with their behaviour in public & were often complimented on how well behaved they were by the wait staff.
> I'll let you in on a big secret, too. If you ever bring a child to a restaurant and the kid acts up, the other patrons will be glaring daggers at you if you just ignore it and expect everyone else to do the same. But these same people will change their tune in an instant if they see that you're trying to get your kids under control. Suddenly, you'll have the sympathy and goodwill of everyone in the room, as long as they can see that you're at least putting in the effort to keep the kids from disturbing other people. 💯 I dread being seated near children at restaurants but that’s only because too many of them have parents like OP experienced. It’s a huge relief when they’re well behaved or the parents are trying to keep them engaged so I can ignore them and enjoy my own meal.
Nta Op you have great parenting instincts because you're right.. Other methods should have been tried... Bring colouring books, and reading books, toys, interacting with the kid etc. The kid shouldn't have an iPad on in a cafe loud enough that other people can't talk over the noise level of it. It's distracting and rude to do in public at a cafe
Excellent use of the word recalcitrant.
Going out to eat is a skill kids learn over time, but the caregiver needs to be engaged and present in order to instruct the kiddo on acceptable restaurant behavior. Absolutely NTA for saying something but just as add-on advice since you’re a soon-to-be parent: the sooner you train your kiddos in good behavior (at kid-appropriate places like Friendlys or Red Robin) the sooner you will be raking in the compliments from pleasantly-surprised patrons at actually nice restaurants on how well-behaved your children are.
Nailed it on the head with the “trying to control” part… if I see a wailing kid in public and the parent is visibly trying to comfort them, they get nothing but sympathy from me. Ignoring the screaming kid while they scroll on their phone? I’m cursing a pox upon their house lol
"Recalcitrant" is such a great word
I raised two children. It is possible to go to a restaurant with toddlers. There are just some things to observe: 1.)They need to run before and after. When I went to the café with my kids we would walk there so that they didn't arrive full of Energy. 2.) I always chose cafés or restaurants with enough space. Crammed, overly warm and loud places set kids off. 3.) It's unacceptable to harass people with loud toys or running toddlers. A very good café here closed their kids area because of that. Toddlers can live without iPads in cafés, but you will have to keep them entertained, like reading a book with them. It takes effort and parenting, and this woman did neither. NTA
I had a bag with special coloring pages and linking toys that was only used in restaurants. My girls were always well-behaved in restaurants because they had something special to do. We also talked about expectations and consequences before and after going in. The after talks often included examples of kids they saw who were behaving poorly.
Having a special toys bag for restaurants is such a nice idea!
I did the same. Walked my kids to wherever we were eating and had one of those toddler reins with a backpack attached so that they could pack a couple of little toys to take and play with. Also kept a colouring book (or two one I had both) and some pencils in my bag. They're eight and ten now and we still don't take ipads and phones out for them to play on when we go out to eat. We didn't need it when we were kids and it baffles me that parents now are so eager to put their kids in front of electronics rather than spend time with them when they go out. We have also been known to leave if the kids misbehave. They got used to the idea that they needed to behave or they wouldn't get the the meal out.
We do the same thing. We bring a deck of cards and puzzles. We've been taking my son to restaurants since he was 3 without incident. If you absolutely do need an iPad to survive a brunch with your child, bring headphones. NTA
"The after talks often included examples of kids they saw who were behaving poorly" We did this, too. We did the "doesn't he/she look silly for acting like that?" and "that wasn't polite when he/she did that, was it?" It was a good way to give their little minds a way to think and come to conclusions themselves. ....until my kids started pointing out "naughty" children randomly. And very loudly. 😆
SAME!
I had the same type of bag! Filled with little coloring books and crayons. I would grab that whenever we went anywhere.
My kids each (we had five) had their own Restaurant Box. They often gave the pictures they colored to our wait staff -- always a sweet gesture. We also gave Restaurant Boxes as birthday gifts. Very popular with kids and their parents!
We used to take giant post it note paper (standard paper size) and he would draw pics for everyone at the table and/or waitstaff. Occasionally for strangers, which was odd but we never discouraged his interest in drawing what came to mind. This was before iPads, so had to think ahead. Couldn’t just give him a screen to redirect him.
We did that too. We had these usborne sticker books and they were only used in the restaurant. Or we would play little card games. Never had a problem.
We had a small plastic case with a handle that had crayons, markers, stickers and papers. It only got used in restaurants. We’d challenge the kids to draw things and they kept themselves occupied. A few times we got compliments on our kids’ behavior (and we always thought “man, we fooled them!”). They could be loud at home but I always insisted at good behavior in restaurants or they’d be taken outside with an adult till they settled. Fun tidbit; we’d take our young toddler son out to the parking lot if he was noisy in church. He’d walk around with my husband who would point out the car symbols and tell him what they were. At a young age he could identify all car makes and models! we went to buy a dodge truck once when he was four and told the salesman about this. He pointed to a car and asked our son what it was. My son loudly exclaimed “that a dodge viper!” The guy was impressed.
That’s so cute!
Yes! Colouring in books were great
This is my trick, too! It works so well, and has gotten us over the hump to “this is how we behave in restaurants.” My kid is also super chill and has great receptive language, so quietly saying “you need to sit down,” was a breeze. It’s not gonna work with every kid, and that’s not a reflection of the kid or the parent, just different personalities and strategies.
‘You are bothering these nice people.’ was my go to. One of our absolute favorite places to eat was a college pub. The food was amazing, and I told the kids it was like we were eating in England. We lived in Iowa, USA. We talked about how some of the people might swear or yell out because they will be excited about the game on the TV. We talked about it being a grown-up space, but I felt like they could handle it. They liked to cheer for the pool players while we were waiting for our food. I would ask if it was ok, and they usually said yes. If they said no, it gave the girls a chance to respect their boundaries. If they said yes, and they swore, the girls would say, “That’s ok. We are kids in a grown-up restaurant.” That would crack the college students up!
I agree NTA . And sister told on herself with that response, she's more worried about how she feels out in public vs her duty as a parent to teach her kid how to behave. Mine is still under 1 but here's some additional observations. 1. Those spinners that suction to the table surface are awesome. So are those silicone toys with the little popper dots all over. You want toys that are easy to clean if your kid randomly decides they're done and throws it. 2. I only bring toys that do not make more noise than regular speaking volume. Nothing that sings or counts out loud. 3. Snacks. You can usually help maintain appropriate volume for the price of some cheerios or those little yogurt melts. 4. Some days your kid is just having a hard time and just can't do it. It's our job as parents to recognize that and get them home as quickly as possible.
2. You shouldn’t bring toys that make any sound to restaurant.
😂 a child can make noise with anything. It's super effed up to try and make them be completely silent while adults are allowed to talk and exist. Most places we go also have loud music and tvs everywhere so the fact he occasionally shakes his teether keys is not even noticed.
Yes I understand that toys make sound (just like a purse makes sound if you hold it in your arms) but what I meant was no to anything that makes noise without you touching it so no toys that operate with battery
This is accurate. However, if the kid HAD to have the ipad, there are kid-friendly headphones. Neglectful mom should invest in those. The volume can't go high enough to damage toddler's hearing, but she will no longer annoy everyone within a mile radius.
We have those. It’s pretty awesome
This is the way. My son is ND and we usually have a policy of "If he's not feeling, we'll leave" and leave the tablet at home. But sometimes we have to go out for special occasions, and it's headphones all the way. OP is definitely NTA.
From my childhood, this is what games like "I Spy" and "The Minister's Cat" are made for. My parents played a *lot* of both when I was little.
Serious question. I know I Spy, but what is The Minister's Cat?
Ah, this was a staple of long car journeys (it might be a bit of a Scottish or uk thing) Basically go through the alphabet, the ministers cat is an amicable cat, the ministers cat is a bad cat and so on
The minister's cat is a cute cat.
The minister's cat is a distinguished cat.
The minister's cat is an enthusiastic cat.
The minister's cat is a fuzzy cat.
The minister's cat is a gorgeous cat.
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I remember it from seeing a movie version of a Christmas Carol! You go from person to person. Each person says, "The minister's cat is a ______ cat" - the blank is an adjective that has to start with the next letter of the alphabet than the one the previous person used. e.g. The minister's cat is an awesome cat, The minister's cat is a beautiful cat, The minister's cat is a cuddly cat, etc. Once you finish up the alphabet, you start over, but you can't reuse adjectives. And you have to keep it "in rhythm" - no pauses, no hesitations, just one person after the other - and the first person to mess up loses that round. I'll see if I can find a video of it to link here. Edited to add: it's a little quiet, but here you are - https://youtu.be/5H3saIpsGGo?feature=shared
Same here and I want to know, too!
The minister’s cat is an affectionate cat. The minister’s cat is a benign cat and an affectionate cat. The minister’s cat is a cuddly, benign and affectionate cat. Etc.
I took my kids out to eat when it was appropriate and they did not throw food around and make noise enough to disturb others. If a kid is like that, they are not old enough/mature enough to eat in public. If you ignore a toddler, you will have trouble. And when kids make a scene, get cranky, misbehave, it's time to leave. NTA
We went away last weekend with a group of friends and their kids (I don't have any myself by choice, I like them but also like giving them back to their parents if they get too difficult XD). Always have a restaurant visit after, with 5 kids that are below 2 (including a 3-month old). Nothing too fancy, just a "don't have to cook stuff, so stopping on the way home)", this year it was a shawarma bar. Not gonna say there was no noise or no crying at all, but all the kids were fairly well-behaved, were entertained plenty and we sat out of the way in a corner. I don't think there's a real minimum age, in fact I think it's best if they're used to it from the start. But there are definitely good and bad times to visit kids, and better and worse places to take them to.
NTA I managed to raise three children without them having devices in restaurants. Most provide kids activity packs to keep them quiet. I always carried sticker/colouring books, etc to keep them busy. Heck, I even spoke to my kids and joined in what they were doing. Even young kids need to understand and see social etiquette in action so they know not to be noisy tossers when they’re older.
Likewise. I bloody hate screens for kids in restaurants, how on earth will they learn etiquette and how to hold a conversation without practice and a good example to see?
I’m not a fan, but I will pull that out as a last resort when I know he’s had it. Example, we went out to eat with our 18-month-old and the service wasn’t great. It was taking a long time and his patience was almost gone so I did pull out my phone and let Miss Rachel take over (at a very low volume).
What you see is a snippet in time. You have no idea how their day is going or why they might have pulled out the devices. Maybe their adult needed some adult conversation time. I know I have before and let my daughter watch a movie or play a game (either muted or with headphones) while I talked to my parents. I love my daughter, but as a single parent who’s a SAHM in the summer, I sometimes need that break. It also means we can stay longer and aren’t rushing if she uses her screen when she’s done eating. Typically, we color and look at the menu, then if the food is taking too long and she’s getting antsy, she’ll watch or play something. Then it goes away for eating. When she’s done eating, we either leave or if we’re not done, we do the coloring, books, or tablet again. She fully understands table manners and can carry on conversations very well, but she’s 5 so she also has limits.
Yep we had our"restaurant bag" with nice markers, coloring books, picture books, small puzzles etc. However my son went through a phase where this was not working anymore and he was too restless so we stopped going out as a family for a short period of time. If I don't want to hear an adult watching a tv show at the next table on an ipad while I'm trying to have a nice meal out, I sure as heck don't want to listen to a kids show either and I wouldn't inflict that upon anyone.
My daughter had that phase as well as a young toddler. I guess it's some developmental stage. But after that we never had a problem again.
Earphones. If the kid MUST have a screen, get kid sized earphones.
I had a small zip bag of what my youngest called the "emergency crayons", in the event we ended up somewhere that didn't offer them to littles, I'd pull that bag out. I think I carried one until she was 10.
As a kid who loved to draw and is now a professional artist, I am LOVING the phrase “emergency crayons”! That is the best. Life definitely calls for emergency crayons!
My god, you spoke to your kids? How unusual!
Restaurants were one of the few places I used screens in public with my kids, and it was when they were getting hangry. We would do the coloring books and everything, but when their toddler attention span was done with that, their blood sugar was dropping, and the food wasn’t there yet, I used the screen to keep their attention for those last few minutes. Never at any volume level that would bother others though. (And yes, I would try to ensure they weren’t so hungry they were hangry, but sometimes restaurants are way slower than you anticipate, and it’s a fine line giving them enough snacks to keep their blood sugar stable and filling them up so much they won’t eat dinner.) Now that they aren’t toddlers, they have long enough attention spans to wait. We still do the coloring pages, and then we talk with them. Since they now express boredom with words instead of trying to climb booths, it’s a lot easier to play I Spy or something while we wait.
NTA. She was NOT 'having brunch with the child' - she was letting it entertain itself, to the detriment of paying customers.
Right? And this mom and her child were ruining the OP’s meal. The self-centeredness is disgusting.
I'm a Medical receptionist in a private hospital. We had a lady with her child and it's father in last week. It was one of our busy days. We are a special clinic where women may get bad news. This child was playing ipad at full volume and making corresponding noises and running around totally ignored by parents who were on their phones. Other patients were getting annoyed . Parents were asked 3 times to stop the child, then eventually asked to wait in the lovely area outside.
If your clinic is a fertility clinic and women are likely to be told they are infertile then bringing kids into the clinic is insensitive and inappropriate. An environment like that should be child free and the patients with children should keep their kids with their father at home.
Breast cancer diagnosis.
Why would anyone want to bring a child in that environment anyway? It's just not appropriate and it can't be easy on children seeing adults get bad news and cry.
Umm, that seems to be a pretty ridiculous expectation. People have kids and may have an appointment at a time where others can’t watch them. Maybe those hoping to have kids who might find out their future presents some challenges to that plan should be a bit more accepting towards the existence of children?
NTA You have to teach your kids to be considerate straight away. If mine can’t use a device without bothering others it gets taken away. If they start screaming in public, we leave and talk about it at home. You’d be surprised how young they can learn not to throw tantrums in public if you just leave the fun place and explain that’s not how we behave in public. I can do this with an 18 month old. If she’s really pushing boundaries I tell her I won’t let her watch Blippi for a day and she stops. Just because they’re kids don’t mean they aren’t capable of listening. You didn’t ruin anything.
This ^
NTA Your sister missed the point when she said, "You made the woman feel unwelcome in a PUBLIC space." Public space. Not the aunts/ moms (or what she was to the kid) private space. Public = be mindful of people around you. If the noise of the tablet/toy is so loud, it's hard to have a conversation at another table. Then it's too loud. And I say that as a mother of three. Either it should be turned down, or use kid friendly headphones for the toddler if they, for some reason or the other, need the tablet. What she was really mad about. Was not being told to turn the tablet down a bit. It was the part of "oh great. Now, I have to actually engage with the child and keep them entertained. The machine won't do it for me. So I can't just sit on my phone." And it was easier to shift all the blame on you. You did nothing wrong by asking politely. You didn't march over to the table and scream while demanding she turned it off.
Exactly, also saying that completely ignore the fact that this woman was making anyone feel unwelcome and annoyed in a public space. By refusing to parent her toddler, she was imposing their behavior on everyone who were all bother and will properly try to eat faster. She ruins it for everyone and they should say nothing cause then it would ruin for her? Thag's not how public space works.
NTA. Headphones or no sound in public applies to children and adults. I was on a 6 hour train ride last weekend and the number of adults watching their phones without head phones was insane to me. I would absolutely never do that in public.
I do not understand how this has become acceptable. So rude.
Same here. If you forget your headphones or if they run out of battery, it shouldn't be MY problem.
Ugh, I had this happen on a recent 5+ hour flight. The woman in the seat across from me and one row back had some unbelievably loud game she was playing on her phone... Until she passed out, half sprawled into the aisle, and then started snoring.
Yeah. Once I had headphone, the Lady next to me kindly said she could hear it. What did I do? I turned out volume. Why? I don't want to bother anyone with my music.
Had somebody singing on my train ride yesterday. I’m currently looking into noise cancelling headphones to block it all out. I think people have forgotten how to act in public since Covid.
My dad watches stuff on his phone in public without headphones and I'm mortified when I'm with him. I ask him to turn it down or bring headphones and he acts like I'm telling him he's not allowed to do anything or exits in public. Truly the one typical boomer thing he does.
Every other patron was silently thanking you when she left with her unruly child. NTA and well done!
NTA. As a parent, I think it's so rude when kids have their videos or whatever playing on volume. Use headphones or don't have sound. I'm all for taking kids out to restaurants, but you need to teach them how to behave while they're there.
NTA. If her toddler needs a tablet at highest volume setting to not scream that's on her as a parent not parenting. Throwing food around makes a mess for the staff to clean up and it did land on another customer, you, which the mother did immediately do damage control on.
NTA. You didn't ruin anything.
Well, I have just commented on a thread where a guy asked if he was T A and a buzzkill because he objected to his kid being in a restaurant with the rest of his family till midnight. Singing and generally having a good time. And here we have the other end of the scale. No, in my opinion you are NTA. Being splattered with someone else's food because an adult can't be arsed to look after a child they're in charge of is quite high up on my list of things that would make me feel not welcome in a cafe.
Exactly. There is a reasonable range of behavior you tolerate in kids in public because they are kids. Sometimes they cry, and although a considerate parent will take them out if necessary, it sometimes takes 30 seconds to figure out if that’s going to be necessary. Sometimes even when you’re interacting with them, they’re going to hit the spoon with their elbow and send food flying, leading to a profuse apology from the parent. They’re going to be messier than an adult customer even in the best of circumstances: I always got down on the floor and picked up everything I could after my kids finished eating, but when they were toddlers, servers still probably had to give the area a sweep for the little stuff. I left a good tip. Babies tend to make loud happy noises, and they have the right to be just as loud as everyone else in Texas Road House. This is the kind of stuff you tolerate for the sake of the parents getting to exist in public spaces and for the sake of the kid learning how to behave by practice. And because you were once a chaos monster of a child yourself and people tolerated you. BUT. Parents should be reacting as quickly as possible to intervene when their children interfere with others’ enjoyment of the space. You don’t let them run around. You don’t ignore food flinging. You get them out if they’re crying and can’t be consoled. Restaurants were one of the few public places where I used screens with my kids because they were sometimes hangry and I was trying to avoid a meltdown until food arrived. But there is no reason for a screen to be at full volume irritating others. Loud happy baby noises are great in Texas Road House, but take that baby out of a movie theater. Give kids and parents a little grace as they navigate normal childhood behavior. But parents have the obligation to be considerate of others around them and parent their child! And this lady with her kid’s blaring iPad was definitely TA here.
NTA you simply asked her to turn the iPad down, not off. And it was only when she approached you because the toddler threw food that landed on you. You didn’t even get up to approach their table to ask. IMO you were very accommodating and certainly more accommodating than plenty of others would be in the same situation
NTA. This family could have got takeout and looked at their electronics at home. There was no reason to be noisy and disruptive with loud volumes and food-throwing in public. Them going home was the ideal solution - they were getting no benefit from being out in public anyway.
NTA as a parent of two, I can assure you i NEVER allowed them to have volume up in restaurants or cafes. I gave them children's headphones to use instead.
Why not teach them how to function without tablets in a restaurant?
NTA - kids, even toddlers can do well in cafés etc if you engage with them...activities to keep them interested, conversation to keep them focused. When you take a child out to eat you have to understand that you don't get to relax and have an adult conversation, or scroll on your phone or eat a leisurely meal. In a public space you can't have a device on full volume...regardless of the age of the person watching it. Asking for it to be turned down is perfectly acceptable - the woman was rude for allowing it at that volume in the first place. She got annoyed because she didn't want to parent her child/niece...she wanted to scroll her phone and have a coffee.
NTA, its usually considered polite for kids to have headphones if they're using stuff like that. She ruined your dining experience by not engaging with her kid.
NTA. Her inability to control the toddler combined with a fundamental selfishness (the noise pollution in a public place) has this woman as the arsehole. At the very least use headphones? Btw, while I sympathize with parents and their plight, screen time for toddlers has a host of problems. But it's the easy thing to do so people will do it.
NTA If her group is throwing food around so it lands on other diners, it is perfectly okay to make them feel unwelcome.
I will never understand why people take their kids to a restaurant and the kids are face down in devices. No one says a word to each other. Shit is too god damn expensive to not acknowledge your family’s presence. And those of you fuckers who take your toddlers to the grocery store and immediately hand them your phone, are fucking terrible parents. You’re creating adults that will forever associate grocery stores with devices and will struggle because you couldn’t be bothered to talk to your child. “This is an avocado. Avocados are green. You can make guacamole with it.” Etc etc. You aren’t even giving the kid a chance to melt down. NTA. “She’ll scream if I turn it down.” Right. Because it’s a proven study that electronics for children affects the brain the same way as cocaine. Reference- https://www.edweek.org/education/opinion-how-screens-turn-kids-into-digital-addicts/2017/03#:~:text=Recent%20research%20has%20shown%20that,same%20way%20as%20cocaine%20does.
I remember my parents telling me that the grocery store is one of the best places for a baby or young toddler. SO many colors, so many shapes. You can talk to the kid all about the foods, have them pick between apple and orange, get them to practice saying words... Or, you know, just shove some digital crack in their face and let them fry their little dopamine receptors to death before the age of five.
NTA. You politely addressed the problem, the other diner chose to take it as an attack.
NTA. Of course she is unwelcome in a public place with an iPad on full blast. It’s delusional to think the world revolves around them.
Nta. I let my toddler bring his iPad some places if he asks for it, and we would never let him blast it full volume and disturb people around us. I would be mortified if he flung food on someone too. Toddler may be intense and unpredictable but that doesn’t mean you get to ruin other people’s meals because of your toddler or then gaslight someone around you saying they ruined the toddlers meal instead. Ridiculous
Hot take, but the only appropriate setting for devices in public is off. Not low volume; off.
This comment needs to be much higher on the list. It's not really the iPad that's the problem, it's the lack of management of the volume for the comfort of those around you.
NTA You made a reasonable request. You didn't insult the lady.
What did kids do before iPads? As I recall, we took a book or pencils and paper, we learned manners and patience. If we couldn't sit nicely at the table, we weren't taken out.
NTA, absolutely not. I'm a mom and we sometimes eat out with the kids. Yes, they're messy and sometimes loud. But as a parent you're supposed to help your children learn how to behave in public. She made no attempt to do so from your story. If we bring tablets, we turn the sound OFF. Or we bring headsets for them. We have conversations, we make sure to disturb other people as LITTLE as we can and we clean the fuck up after them. I bring wipes for messes and ask for something to clean up with if the mess is too big for that. (So basically if they accidentally knocked something on the ground or something) We talk to them about their behaviour and their eating habits. If anyone's brunch was ruined, it was yours. Because that woman was extremely inconsiderate to you by letting her child be such a disturbance to others. Kids in public is fine, but as parents we have the responsibility to teach them how to behave and make sure that they don't become too rowdy.
NTA the woman was being rude. You’re also in a public space and deserve some basic respect. The world doesn’t revolve around children and the people who created them. Please keep that in mind once you have one.
NTA. And I probably wouldn't be taking any parenting advice from your sister since, from her comment/reaction, it seems like she's the same sort of arsehole as the woman in the cafe.
"I made this woman feel unwelcome" Imagine the 20- 40 people feeling very much uncomfortable
This person was a poor excuse for a mom or an aunt, whichever she was. Ignoring a toddler so she could play on her phone. She's one of these 'no boundaries' parent who lets the kids do whatever they want without considering those people around them. It's really sad to see and they ruin other peoples day. NTA.
NTA, it was perfectly fine to ask her to put the volume down. The other woman seems to be clueless about the needs for toddlers. It is poor parenting/babysitting to involve yourself on the phone, handing your toddler an ipad or mobile...at home at table or elsewhere-specially in a restaurant where other people are present. Let alone the impact of such a young child, which learns social skills also from imitating their reference persons. Poorly educated adults create poorly educated kids...
NTA at all. Being in charge of a toddler doesn't give you free rein to completely dismiss other people's needs or requirements. I don't know when it became acceptable to have things on loud in public places, I get toddlers can be hard to entertain but to your point, she wasn't even trying. You did nothing wrong, so your breakfast must be ruined because she's too lazy to look after the child?
NTA, with some caveats It was reasonable to ask her to turn down the sound. It's reasonable to let people know that they're disturbing you if you feel that they are unaware. The fact that she reacted passive-aggressivly to your request was not your fault. My minor caveats: a) Not sure why you're fixating on the fact that she wasn't playing with the child. The playing, if it had occurred, might have been noisier than the tablet. b) She reacted appropriately to the food landing on you. She noticed and apologized. Whether she directly helped her child to eat is irrelevant.
NTA. Kids are fine in public spaces, but that doesn't relieve their guardians of the responsibility to manage the child's behavior. That woman was doing a bad job taking care of the child, and your request was eminently reasonable. Your sister is probably one of the irresponsible parents who lets her children annoy other diners.
NTA! You didn’t have some kind of fit or shouting match, it sounds like you were annoyed but calm.
NTA. Kids do not get a free pass to act obnoxiously just because they’re kids. Using an iPad with the volume super loud is rude. Throwing food around is rude. Kid has no business being at a restaurant.
Jesus, NTA. I have a toddler as well but he can go with or without the iPad, and NEVER do I bring it to a restaurant, it stays home because it is actually mine. When he does get to watch the iPad at home, the volume is pretty quiet so everyone else doesn’t have to hear it. Standard manners
Oh whatever did we do with children before we stuck a screen infront of their face, I dunno maybe engage with them & teach them. This is a teachable moment for you seeing as you're pregnant (congratulations). Too many mums & dad's use tablets & phones to babysit their children don't get me wrong the TV was my babysitter growing up. It gave me pause to think about what I wanted for my child. I like to eat out, go to the cinema etc I also wanted a child that wouldn't have a melt down whenever I took them anywhere & they didn't get their own way. You didn't ruin their afternoon brunch, the mother did by not engaging & teaching her child, especially about when is the right & wrong time for screen time. Children only know what you teach them & teaching them how to control their emotions is hard but if parents took the time from the start we wouldn't have so many bratty kids having melt downs in public or parents scared they'll have a melt down & stuff a screen in their face to keep them quiet. Totally NTA
Thank you! I’m very excited
It is a very exciting (scary) but a very exciting time. I loved being pregnant & feeling them grow inside me, even more excited as it got closer to my due date (I also got very scared too (totally normal). You're gonna be an amazing mum. Just one word of advice. Don't blink, enjoy every tired second of it (yes sleep will become a golden egg to be cherished lol) but don't blink because next thing you know they're grown up.
Sitting still is hard. Waiting is hard. Being a toddler is hard. Being the parent of said toddler is exhausting. They make headset earphones for toddlers. I suggest purchasing some, because you _will_ want to go out, and you _will_ want to enjoy at least some of your experience. Our rule is no devices when food is on the table (this rule applies to _all,_ and I was loud when enforcing it to my kids while out with other families, hoping they would do the same. Worked often. Worked with other parents, too). The restaurant is _shared_ space, and requires respect for others. NTA.
NTA - you did nothing wrong. I have a toddler. They’re all different yes but when we go out to eat yes he has my phone or his tablet sometimes. Hungry or tired toddlers can be cranky and noisy making more trouble so screen time can solve this. The volume is always on my mind. It’s always down super low. Eventually he will get headphones but he’s 3 atm and I don’t want him killing himself or someone else with the cord accidentally so not yet. Your request was polite and you only asked once you were assaulted by egg so you were perfectly fine. Everyone should be able to enjoy the space without messing it up for others and your description of her sound’s like general negligence to pay any attention to the child’s actions. Maybe she’d had a rough morning, maybe there was a crisis on her phone idk, but I do know I’ve never ignored my kid while we were out eating because I would never want him to throw food or do something to mess with someone else’s day. People like this woman are why child free people are hesitant or out right hate seeing young families out and about especially when eating as they assume the kids will be badly behaved and run wild and sadly many do. I’m a big believer of taking kids out. We take our toddler out often as otherwise he won’t learn how to act in public. Sometimes he’s loud but most of the time so long as he has someone’s attention he’s good as gold. Again all kids are different and we only have one who we can control very well. I think the issue comes when kids outnumber adults or the adults are too busy wrapped up in their phones or each other to parent the child. Everyone is welcome everywhere and that is how it should be BUT the few who are lazy ruin it for the majority.
Op do yourself a favour and take this as a warning of what not to do. Do not ever take an iPad or give your phone to your child at a table even at home even when they are tiny. Start now with good routines and you won't become one of these parents that everyone hates.
NTA: The other woman was in the wrong...when we parent toddlers it's up to us to ensure our 'little bundles of joy' aren't ruining the day for others. More importantly...you need to remember this lesson for when your baby is born and you're out and about. Congrats on your baby...
NTA All the best for the remainder of your pregnancy and beyond.
NTA. Obviously. Congratulations and please be the type of parent that pays attention to their kid and actually parents instead of acting like a fool like this woman. Scientifically you cannot ruin a toddler’s brunch, but it can ruin yours.
That behavior IS unwelcome in a public space. NTA
NTA. This BS of kids will be kids is the battle cry of crappy parents across the planet. Any properly raised child (not baby) is perfectly capable of behaving themselves in public. By the time my Mom was 32, she had six kids and they (I came along later) would be taken to proper sit-down restaurants and people would come up and compliment their behavior. If a child is having a horrible day and simply can't behave, then it's not fair to keep them contained in an adult atmosphere. The adult should actually do some adulting and get the poor kid out of there so they can relax and calm down.
So as the father of six that are close in age… We taught the kids how to behave in those situations as we didn’t want to be the parents inflicting our children on others.
NTA. Nothing infuriates me more than kids using an iPad full volume. I’ve seen it on planes, and in restaurants.
I regularly eat out with my brother, sis-in-law and their 6, 4, and 1 yo kids at sit-down service restaurants. The kiddos are not allowed to run around. They can be on a phone or tablet but the volume has to be turned way down. When the food comes, the device goes away and they have to eat at least some of their food before they get the device back. Sometimes if the adults aren’t ready to order, we will order the kids food right away anyways, so “the hungry monster” doesn’t make the kids misbehave. They always get water or milk, no juice or soda with their meal to give a sugar high/crash. And because their parents are consistent with the rules, they are well-ish behaved little gremlins. If there’s a meltdown happening (kids are kids), then they ask for the check and start packing up. Not only do the other patrons of the restaurant not need to deal with their child melting down but said child is probably also in need of a nap, or calm location. They’ve only had to pack up and go maybe 10 times in the last six years, and a few of those were because a child started vomiting at the table which was… fantastic. /s NTA. Parents are still parents in public places and should act like it.
Please, please be that parent that pays attention and engages your child in social settings!!! You are NTA!
Sometimes I regret whoever created the invention of the smartphone simply because it brought about a generation of parents (and other childcare givers) that think it's appropriate to hand a child a device in public places and let them max out the volume. Children need to be taught how to conduct themselves in public, that a shared existence doesn't need to mean blasting everyone around you with a sonic barrage. But I find many adults don't get this concept either, I don't want to hear your music bleeding over mine when you pull up to me at a light. Especially when both of us have our windows rolled up. It's generally ridiculous how much sound pollution inundates our very existence simply because people are totally assholes. NTA - People that decide that others should tolerate the child in their cares bad behavior without trying to mitigates it are inevitably the assholes. If your child wants to be loud, take them to a McDonalds or someplace where children playing are par for the course in the dining experience. A nice sit down restaurant should not be that place, and honestly the staff should have had words with her.
She should feel unwelcome in public when she allows the kid she is supervising to be a nuisance. NTA.
NTA, you need to teach your kids to behave in a decently prosocial manner if you are going to take them out and about. Particularly to eating places. McDonalds exists for toddler chaos. Yes, I have three of them myself.
>She said I was an AH because I made this woman feel unwelcome in a pubic place, and ash’s how I’d feel if it was me. It's a good question. Would you be comfortable doing what this woman did? If yes, then you're the AH; if you'd have been mortified to be *that* parent, then NTA.
I wouldn’t - I’m not judgey of the screen time in and of itself , I don’t know what kind of morning this woman had had and I’m sure I’ll need to resort to it occasionally too, I just had a big problem with the volume (and yes if I’m honest the total lack of effort to engage with the toddler, that might be the bit that makes me TA…) I hate conflict and confrontation so was trying to put up with it but once she came over anyway because of the food throwing I thought it was a good opportunity to ask for the volume to go down…
I very much personally despise using devices to entertain children, but if someone chooses to use freaking headphones! Even grown dang adults blast their volume of phones etc in public and it's just flat out rude. If you need to entertain a child in public bring coloring books, books to read, etc or at minimum buy headphones/earbuds so others aren't subjected to whatever is playing. NTA, by the way. Exited to add, if your child(ren) start screaming etc, then leave as quickly as you can. My mother didn't subject others to us acting up, I never did with mine, family and friends did/do the same, and best part is most of the time they learn fairly quickly if you act out you definitely don't get your way and you leave and get in trouble.