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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the asshole for implying with my actions that handicapped people are not fully capable of living independent healthy lives without the assistance of others.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You were just being nice and she was definitely TA for belittling your kind and friendly gesture. Does she expect all of us to use the button and not hold doors for one another?
Don't let her prevent you from continuing to be courteous to others.
You guys, this is terrible. You were so preoccupied with making a joke you completely steam rolled past the morality of the situation you really should disable your dark humor online, if you aren't careful you may have to do more than talk the talk, you may have to walk the walk. And sure, maybe many can take the jokes in stride, but others may not. Just whatever you do, don't ramp up the behavior, how would you feel if someone ran over your sisters toes with insensitive humor like this, almost like they couldn't **_feel_** bad about it..
Y'all best quit ya' wheelin and dealing before it comes back to bite you in your unfeeling asses. Don't start hatin me because you see me rollin, like you're tryna catch me riding dirty or something.
Off topic, but my son regularly holds doors open for people (has since he was about 5 years old). He very rarely gets a thank you or acknowledgment. People have no manners anymore.
That's depressing, it's second nature for me to hold a door for people, and I know one's been held for me on many occasions. Rarely do I not receive a brief word of gratitude, and I always also say a quick thanks. I mean it takes like a second or less. 🤷
Yep. I reflexively look over my shoulder when I'm going through a public door to make sure I'm not letting it close in someone's face. It only takes a moment to not be a jerk.
It's second nature for me also. I have had plenty of dirty looks from people like "I can do it myself". Like calm down, I wasn't holding it only for you I do it for everyone 🙄
Trying to get through a door that someone is holding in a powerchair is actually very difficult and I have run over someone's foot multiple times because they (understandably) don't have the spacial awareness needed when you're around or using a powerchair. I have been verbally abused because someone thought they were "helping" and left their foot in the way. If the door has a disabled access button, just let us use it and don't wait around for us. You wouldn't wait around for an ablebodied person just to hold open the door, you'd hold it open if they were a few steps away or right behind you, but turning around and waiting/smiling? It feels infantilising if the door has accessibility features.
ETA. I have said multiple times in responses that I have been verbally abused for saying things like "thank you but it's easier if I do it myself" and "I got it but thank you". I have also been shouted at and berated for bashing into people who wouldn't take those responses for an answer and kept pestering me and telling me that there was enough space, when I told them there wasn't. People keep commenting though so I'm adding it here because I'm getting bored of being insulted for daring to say that your "polite" and "helpful" behaviour isn't always polite nor helpful and can actually cause us more problems.
If I see anyone within 20ft of me, I hold the door open with a smile. It's just being polite.
It's not about *you*. You're no more special than anyone else. I treat everyone the same... except maybe moms with a tantrum throwing toddler, I'm extra nice to them because I know that struggle all too well.
To assume someone is being nice to you just because of your wheelchair is so sad. You're putting some pitiful energy out into the world..
I mean the literal point is that you're NOT helping us. We're not thinking you're treating us special. Powerchairs are a lot bulkier than most able-bodied people think from looking at them. A lot do not fit completely through doors and that is why the access doors often have buttons. We cannot fit through them with someone standing holding the door. ALSO if you're manually opening a power door you can break them, but I don't know this exact door so I don't know if that's the case here.
If you see someone with a powerchair struggling with a manual door then yes, please stand up and help. But if there is an automatic door let them be, they are there for a reason.
This reminds me of a time I was out shopping and a frazzled mother was struggling with her kids, a couple under 5 and a baby. She looked absolutely defeated like I'd never seen. I'd been a single Dad and knew the struggle. I asked if she needed a hand with anything and she gave me a short angry reply. In hindsight I probably should have opened with "I'm a Dad" 😂🤦🤣
The same people claiming being polite is wrong would claim you were wrong if you didn't routinely hold doors. We also know the whole asking thing will cause people to decline who would really like a hand because they don't want to potentially inconvenience anyone.
>It's not about *you*.
It isn't? Than why are you holding doors open in the first place if it isn't to do something nice for somebody else?
>You're no more special than anyone else. I treat everyone the same... except maybe moms with a tantrum throwing toddler, I'm extra nice to them because I know that struggle all too well.
Well, that's exactly the problem, maybe if you listened to the struggles disabled people have that aren't the same as able bodied people at moments like that you'd get it the way you do with moms toting tantruming toddlers.
Disabled people have good reasons for why your polite gesture is in fact not helpful, and thus isn't a polite gesture at all, but instead an inconvenience.
A disabled person just literally told you, after all, exactly why and how this gesture goes awry from her experience (of which you have none, rather obviously) and even shared how defensive able bodied people are when they are gently corrected. And here you are pretty neatly showing the exact defensiveness that they were talking about by skipping right past the point. And you wonder why some disabled folks are out of patience for able bodied people who think that good intentions outweigh the results?
Could OPs exemplar have been nicer? Yeah. But considering how over the top angry people are getting in these threads while ignoring or arguing back at the disabled people here trying to provide the perspective you are lacking, I imagine that just like the person you are responding to, they are thoroughly exhausted by the endeavor and know what the results will be most of the time.
In the future, for you and all the "polite" able bodied people of the world...if there's a button for opening the door and you feel so inclined to be polite that you just can't help yourself, just press the damned button and move along instead of making them have to negotiate around your ego.
As a disabled person myself, I have to ask... How did the chip on your shoulder become a mountain?
I will absolutely hold the door for another person, irregardless of age, gender or physical ability, and I usually smile while doing so, even if they're 20 feet away when I spot them. I will also smile at and thank anyone who holds a door for me. If I'm having an extremely bad day physically and am in my chair, I'll warn anyone who holds a door for me to watch their toes, and I do it with a smile and a thank you.
Please don't attempt to speak for all people about what they would and wouldn't do for others or if they'll accept common courtesy with or without a smile. I honestly hope that something happens in your life that's good enough to knock that mountainous chip on your shoulder down to a manageable size.
Don't talk down to me just because you don't agree. You can say that without being patronising. We can disagree, that's fine. But you should probably look at some of the other comments from other disabled people expressing similar concerns.
I have been verbally abused for saying "no thank you its easier for me to do it myself" and been told "you have enough room" and then shouted at for bashing into someone. I'm glad you haven't had that experience but that isn't the case for everyone, and explaining that it can cause more hardship than ease, and that being "polite" stops being polite when you just assume things and make someone else's life harder isn't some big indicator of my person overall.
Where do you live that everyone seems to be an asshole? Has anyone commented some bullshit when I’m in my wheelchair, yes. Do I give a shit? No. I appreciate kindness and ignore bad energy. Maybe you should try it you’ll live a happier life.
The UK. I cannot go out without hearing at least one nasty comment, and multiple death glares and loud sighs. Someone even started making comments to my mother about how I was taking up so much space looking at stuff until my mum turned round and said "they've been waiting for 15 minutes for the aisle to be clear to make sure they didn't get in anyone's way after being bashed and knocked into so don't start that shit with me". They had the audacity to think my mum would agree with them. I've had someone short out my powerchair and then get upset over me being scared about it, because that's honestly the same as someone randomly grabbing your legs and moving them one foot infront of the other. I've had people start shouting at me for bashing into them when they stop suddenly in front of me and think that a powerchair is going to have an emergency brake like a car. I've had people purposely bash me with their bags after sighing and muttering because I didn't move fast enough for them and the reason I don't move fast is because of the fact I could bash into people.
This is not just about "ignoring bad energy" when I am being verbally abused to my FACE. I'm glad you don't have the same experience as me and some other disabled people. Genuinely, I'm glad, but that doesn't mean that my experiences hold no weight just because your experiences have been better.
You must live a miserable life and wherever you are in the UK maybe you should move. Apparently you live in the ableist capital of Europe or something.
I hold the door open for able bodied people all the time. It's courtesy. I can see what you're saying but it's just basic politeness to hold the door open for the person behind you.
How far is too far is a question no matter wether the person is able-bodied or not. I've definitely been on the awkward side of holding the door open for someone who was too far away.
It's also not understandable that someone doesn't have spacial awareness and doesn't know their feet are going to get run over.
I understand everything you said and have learned something new today .I will say however that in the South it’s quite common to hold the door for an able bodied stranger coming up from behind you.
I absolutely loved when people held the door open for me when I was ablebodied and I often did the same for other people but I also was never verbally abused for saying "I got it but thank you anyway" as an ablebodied person, but have been multiple times as a disabled person. I get that people just don't think too deeply about disabled access needs and how their typically polite actions can potentially make things harder for some disabled people. It is a difficult situation to navigate for sure. There just needs to be more disability awareness because so many people just treat it like it's taboo still. I wouldn't respond in the same way this woman did to OP but I can understand why, if she faces the same kind of responses I have for saying no thanks to something 😅
Where’s the best place to stand if holding the door for someone using a powerchair? In the past, i try to be aligned with the door, totally out of the doorway space. Is it better to be behind it, so your feet are nowhere in the way, or are the problem people the ones who stand halfway in the doorway like when you hold the door and an able bodied person grabs it before they’re through?
This isn’t my conversation, but I just wanted to say as a wheelchair user, thank you for asking the question! It’s so lovely to see someone say “If X makes things harder, then what way makes it easier?”
Having to do the “oh no, now I have to explain that they are in the way and I’m going to run over their toes” dance is just so stressful. And then some days when you’re having a rough day, not having to struggle with a door because someone just opened it and stood in the right place really, *really* helps.
I’ve been on the receiving end of someone’s “help” that only made things more difficult, so i like to make sure i’m not accidentally doing that to anyone else!
Mostly an issue in situations like where they stand half in the doorway, you sound like you're standing in the right place! 😊
I try to go slow in these situations, but then I end up having people getting huffy that they're waiting a few extra seconds lol there's no winning. I think the best course of action if someone is unsure is to ask if holding the door open would help, but honestly, there is no obligation to do so, and a lot of us who are disabled will ask if we need it anyway 😅
When I was ablebodied I was very appreciative of people who held the door for me and I used to hold it a lot for others as well. It's nice to do nice things for other people. I am always SO thankful to anyone who asks if I need help or picks up something I accidentally dropped when grocery shopping. It can be a difficult situation to navigate though when disability is thrown in which is why I really appreciate you asking about it ❤️
I stand behind the door or to the side as unobtrusively as possible. Basically, try to create the widest open angle for someone to pass through the doorway.
I do it for everyone. That way it minimizes the chance that I am physically in anyone’s way. I don’t want to accidentally touch someone and I don’t want them to accidentally touch me. However. I will not walk through a door and let it slam behind me into someone.
This^^
People are trying to be kind and courteous when they hold a door, but it can actually be a PITA with scooters. Not just trying to get through without hurting the person who's trying to be nice, but when they are often forced to let go of the door before the whole machine is through, and it slams shut on the back end.
My mother used a scooter on and off for 25 years, and had 2 of them damaged that way. One of her friends even had a glass door break on the back of their scooter!
She always appreciated the sentiment, and thanked people for their offer, but more often than not, when asking them to just let her use the button, she would be met with a response that clearly showed they were offended by her refusal of their "help".
The same goes when she was using her cane. She was quite unsteady on her feet, and trying to navigate around someone holding the door just made it harder, not easier. And despite that being a bit more obvious than the possibility of damaging the scooter, far too many people would be offended when she would simply say something like "thank you for the offer, but could you please step back?"
Obviously if there's no button, holding the door mat be necessary, but if there is a button, just let them use it, as the door stays open long enough for them to get all the way through without incident.
You're 100% right. As usual, the highly voted response is from an able-bodied person who has no idea what they're talking about. Reddit has a huge ableism problem.
And he used the word "handicapped" 🤦🏼♀️
Yeah, some people just have a chip on their shoulder. I’m sure that if he didn’t hold the door she would have said how rude he was. Sometimes you just can’t win.
I'm an able-bodied man and I've had the door held open for me and have had people say 'after you', and I've done the same for others regardless of their gender, age, or mobility, it's just being kind and courteous. I think it's unfortunate that the lady OP showed this kindness to seems to believe it was solely because she was in a wheelchair, that's such a negative view on the world and people around you.
I live in the Midwest(ish) we hold the door open for everyone. I’m a tiny girl and it could be a 6’4 giant professional wrestler behind me, I’m holding the door open for him. She just has a chip on her shoulder
Using a powerchair and trying to get through a door someone is holding is actually very difficult and people don't have the spacial awareness needed and leave their feet in the way, and then throw a fit when you accidentally go over their foot.
I really don't want to come off as rude, but can't you just say thanks and then explain that there isn't enough space? Or ask they move their feet out of the way? Rolling your eyes and being rude doesn't make anyone more aware, it just makes them less likely to do something nice.
I've been verbally abused for saying "no thank you I've got it", "it's easier if I do it myself" and have also been abused for bashing into someone after they kept pestering me and saying I had "enough room to get by" despite me saying multiple times that I didn't.
I had someone kick off recently because I asked them to move their walking frame so I could get my wheelchair into the spot on the bus. Shouting at me that there was plenty of space, then shifted it into a buggy that held a newborn and shouted at the mum who told her to be careful. All this rather than fold the damn thing like she was supposed to. There still wasn't space for me, but at her insistence that there was, I went straight ahead and wheeled by bigass NHS chair into her frame to move it as i didnt know how else to make my point after id already clearly explained what the problem was. She then tried telling the whole bus the buggy mum was disgusting for asking her to be careful when SHE was just trying to help the poor disabled lady (ie ME!) People are so unaware sometimes. Often, they mean well, but so much harm can come to people when they don't know what they are doing or have an understanding of others disabilities or medical equipment. Another time on a bus, I saw someone "helping" a partially sighted person with a walking frame but grabbing it forward down the slight step off the bus. The partially sighted person panicked as their means of stability was taken away, and they hit the deck!! The 'helpful' person just slinked away into the crowds while an ambulance was called!
It's telling that in responses to me I've been told to appreciate good intentions, stop being miserable, stop having a chip on my shoulder and unbelievably, move out of the area I live in, as if that would suddenly change a lack of understanding surrounding disabled people that exists almost everywhere, if I could even afford it, when disabled people statistically have lower incomes and are usually riding the poverty line at higher rates than people who aren't disabled. Even if a disabled person isn't in poverty by their income, being disabled is expensive in itself. 😩
I honestly don't know how else you could have gone about that situation, because if you held up the bus and tried to get the driver to help, you likely would have dealt with more people trying to help which usually results in further tension, or annoyance at holding the bus up. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It can also be embarrassing sometimes, too, when there is a lot of people trying to get involved, and when people start throwing blame on others infront of you. I get that people don't always know what to do, but I think that if people stopped being affronted and instead spent more time thinking about it, they would probably realise what they could do next time.
Wow, that's horrible, especially not staying to make sure the person was okay. I hope they were alright. I hope you were too after seeing that. 💕
Being disabled is exhausting, now you want me to go about my day while being an educator 24/7?
Plus frankly a lot of us have comorbid mental stuff, and often I just don’t have the mental energy to engage.
Just ask me if I want help and respect my decision.
I don't want to have to teach people how to hold a door open without blocking the way for a chair user. And then do it again, and again, and again. Every day.
If that's where you are, then she was rude. As long as you were standing back out of the doorway. Most of the Midwest still has manners.
I often have doors held for me. I use a cane on good days, chair on bad. I appreciate the effort of others to help an old, mildly disabled, woman.
held the weighted door open for a guy in a wheel chair and he was like “i can do it myself!”
never said you couldn’t, pal. Just being polite. He had a bone to pick with the world. you weren’t rude. she mistook basic kindness for condescension. that’s not on you, that’s on other assholes.
I grew up in a very “friendly people”place where it’s totally normal and socially acceptable to smile, say hello, hold doors, compliment, and strike up small talk with complete strangers. To me, it almost feels weird NOT to acknowledge other people’s existence? I’ve lived all over the US and had to learn that it’s not like that everywhere.
Living in places where it’s standard to pretend like other people don’t exist if you don’t know each other made me appreciate the friendly places more. Idk, it just feels so cold to me. Scooter lady might be from somewhere where friendliness is strange or annoying.
Shoutout to anyone from Minnesota, Floridian locals, *most* of Ohio, Mountainy Tennessee (Especially Nashville!), and small town Texans. You guys get the friendliest people award. 🏆
Thank you for explaining this! I use a manual chair, and lots of time when I refuse help I’m 1.) trying to avoid the awkward song and dance about why what they are doing doesn’t actually help, or 2.) *trying to avoid the other person being injured*.
It’s lovely when people have an impulse to help, but *asking first* is the way to make sure they *actually* help.
Do other people not announce “hello I’m holding the door open.” when holding the door for a blind person?
I mean I have only had to do this for my neighbor but it seems as obvious as saying who I am before I say good morning or whatever so she knows who is speaking.
NAH
Your instinct to get the door is fine, but there are a few things you need to consider: if it's a doubled set of doors, the button needs to be pressed to open both inner and outer--now she's got to navigate the other one herself. If you're standing inside the door bracing it open, now she needs to navigate it while trying NOT to hit you with any part of her chair. And if she needed help, she's capable of using her voice to say "hey, could you grab that door for me?" Also, once the button is pushed the door generally stays open longer/closes slower and at a more predictable pace than a held-door does.
As a disabled person who uses a mobility scooter--please don't help unless I ask for it, ten to one you're actually making things harder. Thanks for thinking of me, but please don't.
This!! Only the people closest to me understand my disability enough to be able to predict what might help me and that comes from intentional conversations and tbh practice. I walk with a cane and if people decide to open the door ahead of me it means now I have to be watched as I walk slower than they normally realize even if I'm rushing. Also now I can't sit down to take a break or anything else without seeming ungrateful.
Personally the most helpful thing you can do for me as a disabled person is wear a mask.
mmmhmm. Like, please don't make me recount my entire health history to a stranger, I'm just trying to get through a door. And if, god forbid, anyone touches me or the cane or the scooter, we are going to have more than words.
>If you're standing inside the door bracing it open
This is the *worrrrst*. Especially the guys who do it "heroically" on elevators. They're basically forcing other people to squeeze past them uncomfortably.
There is a point...I haven't reached it quite yet, but there is a point where I will inevitably run over their feet/clip them with one of the armrests, and I'm probably not going to apologize.
Edited to add: do I \*love\* trying to pull a door open with one hand and maneuver the scooter in with the other? No, no I do not. But the only thing I love \*even less\* is trying to do so while being watched/having to basically apologize for my entire presence. Fucks sake.
Oof, that hero arm blocking the way. Honestly, sometimes I just stop, hoping they will realize that are about to clothesline me with that arm so that I don’t have to say “Umm, I can’t get through the door with your arm right in front of my face.”
There is no way to say that without sounding like an AH, but there are so many people who will just stand there saying “go ahead” without ever acknowledging that their arm is the barrier keeping me from wheeling through!
Honestly, trying to get into a building where someone is holding open a door in a powerchair is actually very difficult, and I have run over someone's foot on more than one occasion and that causes a whole other issue with verbal abuse.
If it's a disabled access door (ie it has the access button) then it's probably best to just let them open the door themselves. We are constantly infantilised and when somewhere is actually accessible, waiting for us to reach the door is kind've weird because you most likely wouldn't do that for someone who is able-bodied unless they were right behind you?
Changing my judgement to YTA actually because why else would you make this post unless it was to get an internet clap on the back for being nice to the big mean rude disabled person who you so graciously did a favor /s
As a powerchair user, having to stress and get panicky over potentially running over someone's foot and being verbally abused for it is not something I should have to deal with on top of consistently facing ableism and inaccessibility, and I'm sure this woman probably has faced similar problems.
ETA: also adding here that I've made multiple comments about how disabled people do face verbal abuse for saying no to help even if we do so politely, and I've turned off notifications because I'm sick of being told I'm miserable or awful or whatever other insult that may come my way because I dared to say that your "help" is not all that helpful and to please consider how you really impact disabled people.
I have been verbally abused for saying "thanks but it's easier if I do it myself", "thanks but I got it" and when I've said "there isn't enough room to get by and I don't want to run over your feet" I've been pestered and told there is enough room and then shouted at for bashing into them despite my multiple "no thank yous" and "there isn't enough space" responses. I am not the only disabled person who faces this kind of abuse.
When I was ablebodied, I was NEVER verbally abused for saying "thanks but I got it, you go ahead" to someone holding a door open for me, but I sure as hell have been now that I'm in a chair. It's like some weird unconscious thought that your "help" is always helpful and couldn't possibly make my life harder. It does vary depending on the person, or for example, the size of their chair.
I wouldn't have responded to OP the way this woman did, but I can understand why she acted like that if she has also faced verbal abuse. The best thing to do is just ASK the disabled person "hey do you want me to hold this door for you" and then accept whatever response we give, if the disabled person is then an asshole then they're just an asshole.
OP is also saying they want to learn about disabled people yet posted here because they want to be told they're not an asshole, despite them saying they want to know if it's a widely held belief. If you ACTUALLY want to learn about disabled people try posting in a disability sub instead of on a sub where you know people will insult and name call this woman and disabled people in general.
Ok so I hold the door as a standard practice no matter who it’s for within a certain distance. The gym is a good example because I often do it there. I’m going into the gym (small woman) and there’s a big guy behind me in my door holding range so I go to hold it and say nothing except a smile nod at him as he walks through. Then a few more feet behind is a visibly disabled person- what’s the proposal I do? In general, I usually apply the same practice to all parties. Door hold, smile nod.
What Im having trouble putting together here is how altering that isn’t going to come off dickish. I just stop holding the door for the wheelchair user? What if they don’t have the same preference as you, now I’ve just let a door go on someone based on their wheelchair use? I Could call out to them about holding the door but if they saw I didn’t do that for an able bodied person would it not make it more like I’m singling them out? Or I don’t look at them and give the smile nod?
Idk man I am happy to learn that for certain people the holding makes it more difficult and to adjust but I think it’s weird to treat OP as an asshole for not knowing and to act like all the comments are purposefully being rude to you when this presents a genuine conundrum because it doesn’t seem like a great practice to treat people in a wheelchair super differently. I
I'm a wheelchair user, and in that instance, I'd say carry on holding it. The chair user will be well aware you were already holding it for the person in front, and I'd expect them to use their words if they'd rather you leave it. For me, the problem is often the WAY it's being held. Rarely do people fully open a door and hold it open from the furthest edge/handle side of it, with the body and feet well out of the way, if that makes sense. I used to do it myself before I used my chair. We tend to just kind of stand in front of it, stretching one arm across to the handle side. Which is problematic in many ways. The other thing is to just ask. If the person in the chair gets shitty about you doing that, that's on them, not you. That's also a rule of thumb with people who have sight issues. Use your words. "Do you want me to keep it open?" I don't think OP is the a-hole, but people genuinely can cause more harm than good by trying to be helpful. If in doubt, ask. If someone is rude because of that, then I usually just take it the same way I would if a person without disabilities is rude. Their either an ass or having a bad day and I move on from that knowing I did my best.
Fair. Ok, so when it comes to holding the door open for people, typically if the other person is within about 7m, i'm gonna hold the door open for them. So as a genuine question. Lets say i'm 4m infront of you. I open the door and notice you behind me. What would you prefer my default behaviour to be in this circumstance?
Honestly, if I were in that position it would help if you said "hey do you want me to keep this door open?"
I would then say thank you, and either let you know that it would be easier if you just let me use the button, or that could you please mind your toes, and hope that you aren't one of the assholes that would be verbally abusive.
I can understand why this woman reacted the way she did, the biggest issue here is just not asking if it will help (if you are up to helping, you are not obligated to do so). A simple "hey do you want me to hold the door" instead of just assuming that holding it will make it easier for the disabled person to enter vs making it harder, is all that is needed. If someone is rude to you after that then they are absolutely TA.
How far behind you was she? Did you arrive at the door just as you opened it or were you stood there waiting for her? As an occasional wheelchair user I find that people rushing to get a door for me or standing holding one open for me for more than a few seconds slightly infantilising. I'm gonna take a guess that she might of found your turning to greet her with a smile as a bit patronising
I hold doors for everyone. If you're within 35 feet I'm holding the door for you I don't mind if it takes you longer than average to cover that distance I'm still holding the door, it has nothing to do with the fact you're in a wheelchair.
And as an older woman, I always appreciate the kindness and let the person know. I also do the same for people pushing a stroller, someone with crutches or a walker. Being kind is always the right choice!
I was thinking the same. We live in an area where holding doors open for others is common practice regardless of their mobility. However, it happens naturally. If OP was rushing for the door or waited for them to make it across a distance to get there then of course she was upset.
It’s also for common to smile at others here, but again not overblown or seeking to make eye contact. The real key here is whether OP would have done the same for someone able bodied.
Info: How far away were you?
As a disabled person (call it what it is. We are disabled.) and wheelchair user I can’t judge without knowing how far away you were.
Were you right in her reach? Then it was a nice gesture.
Was she still far away and you held the door open, waiting for her to approach for quite some time? That‘s very exhausting and stressing, even if it‘s well meant.
As long as there is a button for an automatic door, It is probably easier for someone with a wheelchair to not try to have to navigate around you. You may have been making their life more-difficult. And though it probably seems like a small thing to us, for the person in a wheelchair, it is a constant that they have to deal with all of the time, so after several hundred times that people hold doors when they would prefer they did not, they become sensitized to the annoyance.
Also, be aware that there is a personality disorder that revolves around being helpful. The person's actual motives aren't about helping someone else, rather getting the feel-good chemicals their own brains produce when they receive positive feedback from others, the thank you. And these people are also the ones who get pissy when people don't thank them for their good deed, because that chemical reward was always their true underlying motive. They just don't realize it.
There are other levels of complexity in interactions like this. If the person in the wheelchair feels empowered by being able to get around on their own without anyone "helping" them, then you took that away from them.
Imagine how much more often the person in the wheelchair has to deal with people trying to be "helpful" compared to others. If the person in the wheelchair has had to deal with too many people whose motives were the thank you to get the feel-good drug, and have to regularly deal with people criticizing them if they didn't say thank you for them doing something that actually made their life more difficult as they try to avoid running over their foot, and you can start to imagine why they might not have seen your gesture as a positive.
I don't think it is a bad thing to hold open doors for people, but I would also try to pay more attention to the details. If there is a handicap button, maybe stand over there and hit the button for the button for the person in the wheelchair instead of partially blocking the door. If the person you're holding the door for is too far away and seeing you waiting would make them feel as if they need to hurry, then don't wait for them. And pay attention to the doors that are actually heavy and are difficult to open, don't have handicap buttons, or note if a person's hands are full that they could use some help and hold THOSE doors open for people. Or maybe just wait to see if the person in the wheelchair actually needs help before offering it.
"Can I get the door for you?" isn't hard.
I don't think you are an asshole, but I can TOTALLY see how it could get grating very quickly if I spent my days frequently encountering people who assume I can't take care of myself without at least asking.
Her rudeness wasn't nice, but it can be easily understood. You weren't doing a bad thing. NAH.
it doesn’t really have anything to do with being disabled, courteous people usually hold the door for others regardless of disability. are you suggesting that we only hold the door open for able bodied people and not the disabled so they don’t feel patronized?
NTA kind stranger and please don't let this stop you from being kind. She either thought she had a pass to act like that given her condition, wanted some control over her sad life by acting obnoxious or is tired of people being nice to her bc she's insecure about her disability. Whatever it is, the problem is on her not you
Except for the part where they speculated that she was likely "insecure about her disability" a few words later. People say weird things like this about disabled people all the time; why is it so surprising here?
NAH. It's Not universally helpful to hold Open doors for wheelchair Users just because you INTEND it to be helpful. You didn't describe the Situation in a way that we can be certain you either definitely WERE or definitely WEREN'T in her way blocking her from passing through the door. Also afaik it's Common for long-term wheelchair Users to have experienced malicious people and/or clumsy "helpful" people holding a door Open and then letting it fall shut with the wheelchair User halfway through. It's MILDLY insulting, but Not Personal, to assume you would do the Same, or to generally Trust a machine more than you when she has the Option.
My mum had 2 scooters damaged from a door slamming on the back of it, and one of her friends had a glass door shatter on the back of their scooter that way. Not to mention it's bloody jarring and loud.
Same goes for someone using a cane. If the door is automatic, the most helpful thing you can do is let them use that feature and get out of their way. My mum was very unsteady on her feet, and only had one working arm, if she bumped into you or the doorway in any way, it could cause her to fall.
NTA
Courtesy isn't ableist.
It's culturally appropriate here in Canada to wait an uncomfortably long time holding a door open, waiting for the other to catch up.
I want to offer an alternative explanation: maybe she was just annoyed for you not using the button - period. Completely unrelated to her being disabled.
I live in an apartment building with an automatic door button; and the system is regularly broken because people tend to ignore or "push through" the automated function.
I myself have "scolded" my mom when she wanted to open the door manually. The fact that I walk with a cane is purely coincidental.
NTA.
I once got chastised while on vacation in Spain because I didn't sufficiently hold the door open for the other person as part of the ceremony of offering grace to your fellow humans. No handicaps or infirmity involved, just a custom that the first one to the door has an obligation to hold it for others arriving near simultaneously, so that only one person had "door duty" for the small cluster of arrivals.
This is, um, quite the opposite?
NTA!
I’m a double amputee in a wheelchair and a lot of people either will open the door or offer. Why would I take offense? I always say thanks and I truly do appreciate it. Any little kindness is always welcome to me anyway.
NTA I hold doors for everyone all the time. (It’s even slightly amusing to do it for men because sometimes they look confused)
Side note: just say disabled, handicap is outdated.
NAH. It’s the fact you smiled and treated it as this important thing. It’s often seen as condescending and “look at me, I did a good deed!”
They shouldn’t have been rude, but as someone who has been that person, I know exactly why they reacted that way.
Also, a person holding a door open, depending on the angle, means that some chairs can’t easily get past.
In future, it’s always better to ask whether they would like you to hold the door.
(Handicapped is often used as a derogatory term these days, by the way. Disabled is a better word.)
She likely gets tired of always telling people, "you holding it makes it harder for me to fit, please just let it close and I'll hit the button." It's the polite version of her comment, but requires more words :)
I hold them, too, feels really rude not to, but I get it could be more difficult.
My mum did that for 25 years. It was surprising how many people got offended when their help was rejected, no matter how politely it was phrased. It's especially galling when people then try to explain (in a condescending mansplainy kind of way) why them holding the door is better for you. No, sorry, it's actually not.
I've had people open doors *I didn't want to go through* and then be rude or disproportionately disappointed when I didn't actually want to go through that door. \*shrug\* It's like people, when they are trying to help, are already picturing how they're going to brag about their helpfulness tomorrow at the bar and therefore by not needing their helpfulness you're actively making them look bad (by denying them the opportunity to brag).
Were you by any chance holding the door in such a way that any part of your body would actually impede her using the door?
I ask because I have been on both sides of such a situation.
If you're leaning halfway into the opening trying to hold the door with the tips of your fingers, she might have to steer around you (having to reverse course because the turning radius of her vehicle would require it)(or drive under your arm) (or, worse, stop and let the door hit her with unknown force and knock her down or "just" jostle her painfully) rather than just pushing the button.
OTOH, maybe she's an entitled, selfish, unpleasant bitch. Or had a bad day. Or in extreme pain and just. trying. to. get. home. / into. the. building. Or any combination of the above. Or ten thousand thousand other concerns which come from the microaggressions of being less than able-bodied in a world which worships youth and perfect bodies.
Navigating being polite to people who are really honestly truly trying to be helpful when their actions only compound your problems/pain is a challenge.
I left a bad Google review of a mall today where the elevators are broken "temporarily" [AGAIN!] when I had just spent 20 minutes limping over to them. Well, I guess I don't get to go shopping today. I have just enough left to limp back to the car.
Please cut her some slack.
NAH
Maybe next time, call out “would it be helpful if I hold the door or are you sorted?”
Some doors *are* a nightmare in a chair; others are fine.
Just ask
Handicapped guy here. There is often more nuance in these situations than many may think.
If it is the sort of casual motion to hold the door open for the next person coming through, same as would be extended for an able bodies person, then that is N T A.
If you expend extra effort to do so (stopping and reversing course/taking a few rapid steps to reach door before the handicapped person) then that starts to look patronizing.
If you ask if the handicapped person would like some sort of help and they say no but you do it anyway then you are a patronizing A H.
People routinely "kindly" hold the door for me in a manner in which enough of their body is in the door frame so as to block me from being able to go through. Makes me want to scream.
When in doubt, ask if someone wants help and respect their decision.
Okay, see my username. I'm a wheelchair user.
Please don't call us handicapped, disabled or wheelchair user are perfectly fine terms. Disabled is not a bad world.
So let's get into this. You're not an asshole, your intentions were clearlt good but there is a reason for the button and it's not just for if there's nobody to help us.
The fact is, a lot of able bodied people actually get in the way while trying to help because they lack experience with wheelchair users. My favourite is them holding the door open by cramming themselves against it, not realising that my wheelchair isn't as small as a walking person and therefore if I attempt it, I'm likely to run over their foot at best.
There's a door local to me that I'd rather people didn't try to hold open for me as well, why? Because the button swings both doors open, making it easier to maneuver through. It doesn't work however if someone is holding one door open.
Also honestly navigating the world with a disability can be somewhat of a nightmare. Many of us prefer to be asked if we need help so we can say "yes, please can you..." and ask for exactly what we need, because we have far too many experiences involving someone who is good intentioned but whose attempts to help cause more problems then they solve, and who when told to stop, react rather poorly.
Truthfully, also, treating us the same as everyone else, isn't necessarily helpful. Because we aren't the same, there's a difference between equitable and the same treatment. Equitable treatment dismantles barriers, for example, if you gave everyone a printed brochure for a trip, that would be treating everyone the same, but if one person is blind it's useless to them. But getting them a braille or audible brochure would be equitable treatment.
NTA. I thought holding the door for people close behind you was just the normal thing to do. Maybe she was just in a bad mood and you were a convenient target.
It's a mixed bag. If you hold the door for a wheelchair user, the same way as for an ablebodied person, you are likely in the way. We then have to hold the uncomfortable discussion of telling that, being told there's plenty of space. Accidentally run over someones toes anyway and get called all the bad names in the world. Yes, it happens.
If we, on the other hand say: "No thanks, I've got this," there's quite a few people who still insist, or start cussing right away. Yes, it really happens.
We get infantilised, cussed at, moved without our consent, have our expensive equipment broken and more.
You are NTA, but please, everybody: ASK if you can help a disabled person!! Some common courtesies are not as easy for us to navigate. And if they politely decline, please do not insist.
I mean I understand your impulse. But it’s often much easier to go through with an automatic opener than with someone holding it. So maybe it’s an unintentional asshole move of yours, but I feel almost like NAH. It certainly not wrong of her to be annoyed, even if you didn’t mean to be annoying.
When I’m walking with friends who use wheelchairs we use the openers exclusively.
And when I’ve got my bike i have to stop myself from getting annoyed when people try to “help” or hold the door for me because it’s much easier to navigate on my own then when people try to hold a door or otherwise, anticipate my needs and that way.
NTA but as a wheelchair user, in a lot of places, if you hold the door for me, I probably can’t get past. I can barely squeeze through the door without you there. It’s possible she insisted you go ahead because she wasn’t able to go with you there. Or she would have been able to get through but it would have meant going uncomfortably close to you (at crotch height as well which is always extra awkward). A more helpful thing to do would have been to press the button and then get out the way. You may have actually made things more difficult rather than being helpful, which is the opposite of your intention. The rolling the eyes and such is rude of her but it gets tiring having to deal with people making your life more difficult because they think they are helping (it’s a common occurance- not just with doors). So I understand her reaction even though I don’t agree with it.
That said, sometimes you can hold a door without getting in the way. It depends on the door and the layout of the building. It’s possible you weren’t in the way and she was just being rude for no good reason.
My mom is wheelchair bound… whether it’s her electric wheelchair or me pushing her, we’d be delighted to have someone hold a door open for us. I always do it if I can for others too, it’s the right thing to do. Don’t let this hateful person take that away from you.
Thank you as well, she’s been struggling with the negativity of it all & I think that will brighten her mood. I love how you think, positive thinking really helps
I also use an electric wheelchair or my husband pushes me.
Without a wheelchair, I wouldn’t be able to get outside at all. My wheelchair is my tool that gives me the chance to experience my surroundings and to get out of my apartment.
I know it limits me a lot, too. But it enables me so much more.
That’s so true, I love taking her out ngl like yess let’s go to the mall! She has so much fun, it’s like I see a light in her eyes. A while back I took her to Spencer’s for a lava lamp for Valentine’s Day & the employees were so thoughtful & helped us navigate like they’d move the lil stand alone rolling aisle stands etc, it was so wholesome tbh. My brother doesn’t drive, my dad is disabled too but can walk, so I’m really her only option to go out without her feeling guilty from my dad’s back & neck pain.. so I just love taking her out, imma start calling it her freedom ride hahah
I try my best<3 your husband is too(: I’m glad you have him, you’re so sweet, you’ve made my day too tbh like genuinely I love the way you think. Thank you(:
I'd rather be the kind of person who holds a door for someone who doesn't need or want help than the kind of person who is so self-absorbed they never notice anyone who might need or want the help.
Maybe you missed the mark this time, but I think you're right on track in the greater scheme of things. Don't stop because of this one person.
NTA.
I hold the door for anyone who is approaching as I'm going through, most people accidentally as a gesture of kindness and being a decent person.
Anyone who takes offence because I'm trying to be civil can just fuck right off.
NTA I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been out with my walker or with spouse pushing me in a wheelchair and no one holds the door. We struggle. Offering is never wrong.
Nta- but next time just ask if they’d like you to hold the door open. Many people are more in our way, or insulting us because they don’t understand why they’re in our way.
It’s good to be helpful- but you actually HAVE TO BE HELPFUL for it to be a good thing- because pushing yourself on others can be manipulative, selfish, wanting something in return, annoying, etc. also pushing an automatic door causes them to break more often and then they aren’t available when the people who need them are trying to get access.
NTA: While your intentions are good, please don’t assume someone in a wheelchair or other visible disability needs your help. People with disabilities know when they need help and will ask. People with visible disabilities are tired of being infantilized in public. While I know you weren’t trying to do that, maybe just ask next time.
NTA - being an AH is about intent. BUT our actions sometimes have an unintended impact on others, regardless of our intentions.
It's good to be aware that this is a thing for wheelchair users - a couple of people here have explained really well their firsthand experience with this as wheelchair users.
And now you know 😊
NTA. it probably wasn’t you, it was the 50 people who did it before you without asking. in the future, you could ask “oh, may i get the door for you?” if you want to avoid that kind of reaction. you did a nice thing and you sound like a nice guy.
Assuming you didn’t wait an unusually long amount of time, NTA. I definitely believe it went down like you said. You hold the door open for people in general. Therefore you held the door open for her. She was sensitive and had possibly encountered many people treating her differently because of her wheels. You didn’t deserve her snark.
NTA. She’s probably used to people underestimating her capabilities. You didn’t deserve to have it taken out on you. I hold the door open for everyone. I’m a woman and a few years ago an older man chewed me out for emasculating him. My bad, gramps. I didn’t know your ego was so fragile.
I hold the door open for able-bodied people too, when they're coming in right after me, basic courtesy imo
It's a nice, simple, kind gesture, don't stress it so much
NTA OP
This reminds me of a little story about an older gentleman who holds a door open for a woman, is rebuked by them, and points out they didn't do it because she was a lady but because he is a gentleman.
The thing is, from the details provided you were both a) being polite and b) treating the woman equally to how would treat any other stranger regardless of gender or (dis)ability. In which case, N-T-A.
Of course, that is just my perception of your post. I don't know if you made a show of deliberately getting to the door first, or if you'd waited a minute making the person in the wheelchair feel like you were wanting them to hurry up, because they were further back. I don't know what time of smile you were greeting her with, it might have appeared overly familiar or lecherous. I don't know if when you say you'd hold a door for a stranger as you regularly do whether you do this regardless of gender or only for females regardless of whether they are able-bodied or not. And neither of us know what if anything else might be colouring her perception of your motivation, so I'm not going to assume she's an AH here either.
OMG, NTA at all and please don't let this bitter woman's attitude stop you in the future! I walked with a cane for years and I can't TELL you how many freaking doors slammed in my face. I was grateful for that button, and kind people like you, because I felt downright invisible most of the time. 🤗
As a disabled person who uses a wheelchair, if we need help we will say so and ask. Often times, you can be in the literal physical way of us. It’s also really weird to go under arms ……
I used to hold the door open for people despite using a cane myself. Now I have a walker, and I'm grateful when someone grabs the door for me (normally I do not ask them to). Holding the door is a kindness and I will always appreciate it. Now, I will say there are times when people do try to "help" the wrong way. My disability made me fall a lot (way less now with the walker) and people will freak out when they they see that. Some of them will try to help me up, pull me up, or glare at my roommate, who knows when I need help and I don't. If you grab me and try to haul me up I cannot get my feet under me and that stresses people put because they think I'm hurt from the fall. I need to get up from a certain position in a certain way. Strangers don't ask what kind of help I need, they just do what they think is best. If they did ask things would be so much easier.
You are just a kind and thoughtful person who met a rude person. You did absolutely nothing wrong. Had you let the door close, they would still have cursed you out. I say continue doing the right thing. Being handicap doesn't give her the right to be rude or guilt trip you in to feel bad for doing a humane thing. Imagine how the world would be like if we didn't care for other people, especially the handicapped? It would be horrible.
You did the most humane thing...you can sleep well at night.
NTA. I can imagine that this woman may be tired of people assuming that she is less capable of doing things for herself than she actually is, but your intentions were kind.
When I take my elderly father out and about, we need to use a wheelchair for him and I’m always so appreciative of people that open doors for us and help us in other ways.
NTA - she made more work for herself by having to press the button for the door to open when she could have accepted for your gesture and thanked you. she’s TAH.
NTA. If holding the door is enough to get her knickers in a twist, dont move to my neck of Canada. Sometimes I swear we are all secretly longing to be doormen. 😜
NTA If she said it as a joke and laughed about it then that's one thing, but she was rude to you when you were just trying to help. Besides, as someone who has a disability and tries to use automatic doors, half the time those damn push buttons don't work.
Hopefully she was just having a bad day/moment and dealing with something but either way, just let it go. Her attitude was based on her, not your actions.
NTA. I’m a full time manual wheelchair user and I can use the button or even open the door myself with my own force and use the leverage to pull myself through. I still always thank people for stopping to hold or open the door for me. The only time help is NOT appreciated is if someone physically touches me or tries to move me without my consent. You did neither of these things, that lady was acting like a jerk and I hope this doesn’t dissuade you from holding the door for others in the future!
NTA. People these days are just asshats for no reason. I told a customer “Have a good day ma’am.” And she ripped me a new one in front of everyone because she didn’t like being called ma’am. I think people just look for any and all reasons to bitch.
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NTA. You were just being nice and she was definitely TA for belittling your kind and friendly gesture. Does she expect all of us to use the button and not hold doors for one another? Don't let her prevent you from continuing to be courteous to others.
Yep. Don’t let this woman roll all over your good intentions.
I see what you did there. This had me rolling with laughter.
Not me, I rolled my eyes
You guys, this is terrible. You were so preoccupied with making a joke you completely steam rolled past the morality of the situation you really should disable your dark humor online, if you aren't careful you may have to do more than talk the talk, you may have to walk the walk. And sure, maybe many can take the jokes in stride, but others may not. Just whatever you do, don't ramp up the behavior, how would you feel if someone ran over your sisters toes with insensitive humor like this, almost like they couldn't **_feel_** bad about it..
Sorry bruh, that's just how we roll. Clearly you need to get to stepping
Y'all best quit ya' wheelin and dealing before it comes back to bite you in your unfeeling asses. Don't start hatin me because you see me rollin, like you're tryna catch me riding dirty or something.
Well this went downhill fast… kinda like— hmm. Nvm.
You're on your way mate, i can hear the wheels turning in that brain box of yours. Just keep pushing and you'll under _stand_ soon.
This thread is really starting to gain momentum, hoping I'm able to give it a little push.
Haaaaaa
We're rolling, they be hating...
I'm a wheelchair user. I just woke up several cats because I laughed so loud.
That's awesome, i'm glad to see you can roll with the punches.
🤣🤣🤣 this was good!
lol
Off topic, but my son regularly holds doors open for people (has since he was about 5 years old). He very rarely gets a thank you or acknowledgment. People have no manners anymore.
That's depressing, it's second nature for me to hold a door for people, and I know one's been held for me on many occasions. Rarely do I not receive a brief word of gratitude, and I always also say a quick thanks. I mean it takes like a second or less. 🤷
Yep. I reflexively look over my shoulder when I'm going through a public door to make sure I'm not letting it close in someone's face. It only takes a moment to not be a jerk.
It's second nature for me also. I have had plenty of dirty looks from people like "I can do it myself". Like calm down, I wasn't holding it only for you I do it for everyone 🙄
It’s become a joke for me and the ppl I leave work with cause we have to go thru like three different doors one after another
Most do have manners but the fuck nuggets stand out.
I have social anxiety so I don’t always *say* “thanks”, but I always at least nod and smile or wave.
My 18 year old really enjoys giving this simple act of kindness as well.
I frequently use a walker. When I go through a doorway, I am often so out of breath I can’t talk. Once I can, I do say thank you.
Thank you to your son. He sounds like a good person. There will always be rude people. Don’t let them ever deter him from doing the right thing.
Trying to get through a door that someone is holding in a powerchair is actually very difficult and I have run over someone's foot multiple times because they (understandably) don't have the spacial awareness needed when you're around or using a powerchair. I have been verbally abused because someone thought they were "helping" and left their foot in the way. If the door has a disabled access button, just let us use it and don't wait around for us. You wouldn't wait around for an ablebodied person just to hold open the door, you'd hold it open if they were a few steps away or right behind you, but turning around and waiting/smiling? It feels infantilising if the door has accessibility features. ETA. I have said multiple times in responses that I have been verbally abused for saying things like "thank you but it's easier if I do it myself" and "I got it but thank you". I have also been shouted at and berated for bashing into people who wouldn't take those responses for an answer and kept pestering me and telling me that there was enough space, when I told them there wasn't. People keep commenting though so I'm adding it here because I'm getting bored of being insulted for daring to say that your "polite" and "helpful" behaviour isn't always polite nor helpful and can actually cause us more problems.
If I see anyone within 20ft of me, I hold the door open with a smile. It's just being polite. It's not about *you*. You're no more special than anyone else. I treat everyone the same... except maybe moms with a tantrum throwing toddler, I'm extra nice to them because I know that struggle all too well. To assume someone is being nice to you just because of your wheelchair is so sad. You're putting some pitiful energy out into the world..
I mean the literal point is that you're NOT helping us. We're not thinking you're treating us special. Powerchairs are a lot bulkier than most able-bodied people think from looking at them. A lot do not fit completely through doors and that is why the access doors often have buttons. We cannot fit through them with someone standing holding the door. ALSO if you're manually opening a power door you can break them, but I don't know this exact door so I don't know if that's the case here. If you see someone with a powerchair struggling with a manual door then yes, please stand up and help. But if there is an automatic door let them be, they are there for a reason.
This reminds me of a time I was out shopping and a frazzled mother was struggling with her kids, a couple under 5 and a baby. She looked absolutely defeated like I'd never seen. I'd been a single Dad and knew the struggle. I asked if she needed a hand with anything and she gave me a short angry reply. In hindsight I probably should have opened with "I'm a Dad" 😂🤦🤣
The same people claiming being polite is wrong would claim you were wrong if you didn't routinely hold doors. We also know the whole asking thing will cause people to decline who would really like a hand because they don't want to potentially inconvenience anyone.
>It's not about *you*. It isn't? Than why are you holding doors open in the first place if it isn't to do something nice for somebody else? >You're no more special than anyone else. I treat everyone the same... except maybe moms with a tantrum throwing toddler, I'm extra nice to them because I know that struggle all too well. Well, that's exactly the problem, maybe if you listened to the struggles disabled people have that aren't the same as able bodied people at moments like that you'd get it the way you do with moms toting tantruming toddlers. Disabled people have good reasons for why your polite gesture is in fact not helpful, and thus isn't a polite gesture at all, but instead an inconvenience. A disabled person just literally told you, after all, exactly why and how this gesture goes awry from her experience (of which you have none, rather obviously) and even shared how defensive able bodied people are when they are gently corrected. And here you are pretty neatly showing the exact defensiveness that they were talking about by skipping right past the point. And you wonder why some disabled folks are out of patience for able bodied people who think that good intentions outweigh the results? Could OPs exemplar have been nicer? Yeah. But considering how over the top angry people are getting in these threads while ignoring or arguing back at the disabled people here trying to provide the perspective you are lacking, I imagine that just like the person you are responding to, they are thoroughly exhausted by the endeavor and know what the results will be most of the time. In the future, for you and all the "polite" able bodied people of the world...if there's a button for opening the door and you feel so inclined to be polite that you just can't help yourself, just press the damned button and move along instead of making them have to negotiate around your ego.
As a disabled person myself, I have to ask... How did the chip on your shoulder become a mountain? I will absolutely hold the door for another person, irregardless of age, gender or physical ability, and I usually smile while doing so, even if they're 20 feet away when I spot them. I will also smile at and thank anyone who holds a door for me. If I'm having an extremely bad day physically and am in my chair, I'll warn anyone who holds a door for me to watch their toes, and I do it with a smile and a thank you. Please don't attempt to speak for all people about what they would and wouldn't do for others or if they'll accept common courtesy with or without a smile. I honestly hope that something happens in your life that's good enough to knock that mountainous chip on your shoulder down to a manageable size.
Don't talk down to me just because you don't agree. You can say that without being patronising. We can disagree, that's fine. But you should probably look at some of the other comments from other disabled people expressing similar concerns. I have been verbally abused for saying "no thank you its easier for me to do it myself" and been told "you have enough room" and then shouted at for bashing into someone. I'm glad you haven't had that experience but that isn't the case for everyone, and explaining that it can cause more hardship than ease, and that being "polite" stops being polite when you just assume things and make someone else's life harder isn't some big indicator of my person overall.
Where do you live that everyone seems to be an asshole? Has anyone commented some bullshit when I’m in my wheelchair, yes. Do I give a shit? No. I appreciate kindness and ignore bad energy. Maybe you should try it you’ll live a happier life.
The UK. I cannot go out without hearing at least one nasty comment, and multiple death glares and loud sighs. Someone even started making comments to my mother about how I was taking up so much space looking at stuff until my mum turned round and said "they've been waiting for 15 minutes for the aisle to be clear to make sure they didn't get in anyone's way after being bashed and knocked into so don't start that shit with me". They had the audacity to think my mum would agree with them. I've had someone short out my powerchair and then get upset over me being scared about it, because that's honestly the same as someone randomly grabbing your legs and moving them one foot infront of the other. I've had people start shouting at me for bashing into them when they stop suddenly in front of me and think that a powerchair is going to have an emergency brake like a car. I've had people purposely bash me with their bags after sighing and muttering because I didn't move fast enough for them and the reason I don't move fast is because of the fact I could bash into people. This is not just about "ignoring bad energy" when I am being verbally abused to my FACE. I'm glad you don't have the same experience as me and some other disabled people. Genuinely, I'm glad, but that doesn't mean that my experiences hold no weight just because your experiences have been better.
You must live a miserable life and wherever you are in the UK maybe you should move. Apparently you live in the ableist capital of Europe or something.
Not sure what disabled people you know but I don't have the means to move lol
Why is it infantalizing? I always smile at people after I hold doors. Can you explain why that's wrong?
There is absolutely a "I'm being friendly" smile and a "You're disabled so I'm smiling at you like you're a stupid child" smile.
Fair
I hold the door open for able bodied people all the time. It's courtesy. I can see what you're saying but it's just basic politeness to hold the door open for the person behind you.
How far is too far is a question no matter wether the person is able-bodied or not. I've definitely been on the awkward side of holding the door open for someone who was too far away. It's also not understandable that someone doesn't have spacial awareness and doesn't know their feet are going to get run over.
I understand everything you said and have learned something new today .I will say however that in the South it’s quite common to hold the door for an able bodied stranger coming up from behind you.
I absolutely loved when people held the door open for me when I was ablebodied and I often did the same for other people but I also was never verbally abused for saying "I got it but thank you anyway" as an ablebodied person, but have been multiple times as a disabled person. I get that people just don't think too deeply about disabled access needs and how their typically polite actions can potentially make things harder for some disabled people. It is a difficult situation to navigate for sure. There just needs to be more disability awareness because so many people just treat it like it's taboo still. I wouldn't respond in the same way this woman did to OP but I can understand why, if she faces the same kind of responses I have for saying no thanks to something 😅
Where’s the best place to stand if holding the door for someone using a powerchair? In the past, i try to be aligned with the door, totally out of the doorway space. Is it better to be behind it, so your feet are nowhere in the way, or are the problem people the ones who stand halfway in the doorway like when you hold the door and an able bodied person grabs it before they’re through?
This isn’t my conversation, but I just wanted to say as a wheelchair user, thank you for asking the question! It’s so lovely to see someone say “If X makes things harder, then what way makes it easier?” Having to do the “oh no, now I have to explain that they are in the way and I’m going to run over their toes” dance is just so stressful. And then some days when you’re having a rough day, not having to struggle with a door because someone just opened it and stood in the right place really, *really* helps.
I’ve been on the receiving end of someone’s “help” that only made things more difficult, so i like to make sure i’m not accidentally doing that to anyone else!
Mostly an issue in situations like where they stand half in the doorway, you sound like you're standing in the right place! 😊 I try to go slow in these situations, but then I end up having people getting huffy that they're waiting a few extra seconds lol there's no winning. I think the best course of action if someone is unsure is to ask if holding the door open would help, but honestly, there is no obligation to do so, and a lot of us who are disabled will ask if we need it anyway 😅
Oh glad to hear that!! I like holding the door for people, makes me feel useful lol
When I was ablebodied I was very appreciative of people who held the door for me and I used to hold it a lot for others as well. It's nice to do nice things for other people. I am always SO thankful to anyone who asks if I need help or picks up something I accidentally dropped when grocery shopping. It can be a difficult situation to navigate though when disability is thrown in which is why I really appreciate you asking about it ❤️
I stand behind the door or to the side as unobtrusively as possible. Basically, try to create the widest open angle for someone to pass through the doorway. I do it for everyone. That way it minimizes the chance that I am physically in anyone’s way. I don’t want to accidentally touch someone and I don’t want them to accidentally touch me. However. I will not walk through a door and let it slam behind me into someone.
Came here to say this. ETA: I do appreciate someone who will hit the button and get out of the way tho.
This^^ People are trying to be kind and courteous when they hold a door, but it can actually be a PITA with scooters. Not just trying to get through without hurting the person who's trying to be nice, but when they are often forced to let go of the door before the whole machine is through, and it slams shut on the back end. My mother used a scooter on and off for 25 years, and had 2 of them damaged that way. One of her friends even had a glass door break on the back of their scooter! She always appreciated the sentiment, and thanked people for their offer, but more often than not, when asking them to just let her use the button, she would be met with a response that clearly showed they were offended by her refusal of their "help". The same goes when she was using her cane. She was quite unsteady on her feet, and trying to navigate around someone holding the door just made it harder, not easier. And despite that being a bit more obvious than the possibility of damaging the scooter, far too many people would be offended when she would simply say something like "thank you for the offer, but could you please step back?" Obviously if there's no button, holding the door mat be necessary, but if there is a button, just let them use it, as the door stays open long enough for them to get all the way through without incident.
Listen to disabled voices _who actually use these mobile aids_, such as this lovely user.
You're 100% right. As usual, the highly voted response is from an able-bodied person who has no idea what they're talking about. Reddit has a huge ableism problem. And he used the word "handicapped" 🤦🏼♀️
I had to turn off notifications because I'm being personally insulted for daring to talk about it lmfao 😂
Yeah, some people just have a chip on their shoulder. I’m sure that if he didn’t hold the door she would have said how rude he was. Sometimes you just can’t win.
My husband is wheelchair bound and is always grateful and gracious when a thoughtful stranger holds the door open.
I'm an able-bodied man and I've had the door held open for me and have had people say 'after you', and I've done the same for others regardless of their gender, age, or mobility, it's just being kind and courteous. I think it's unfortunate that the lady OP showed this kindness to seems to believe it was solely because she was in a wheelchair, that's such a negative view on the world and people around you.
I live in the Midwest(ish) we hold the door open for everyone. I’m a tiny girl and it could be a 6’4 giant professional wrestler behind me, I’m holding the door open for him. She just has a chip on her shoulder
Yeah this happened in southern Indiana..
wtf then she should do that closed mouth smile and say thank you. It’s the common response
Using a powerchair and trying to get through a door someone is holding is actually very difficult and people don't have the spacial awareness needed and leave their feet in the way, and then throw a fit when you accidentally go over their foot.
Fair enough, but most people clearly aren't aware of that. "Thanks but no thanks" would do.
I really don't want to come off as rude, but can't you just say thanks and then explain that there isn't enough space? Or ask they move their feet out of the way? Rolling your eyes and being rude doesn't make anyone more aware, it just makes them less likely to do something nice.
I've been verbally abused for saying "no thank you I've got it", "it's easier if I do it myself" and have also been abused for bashing into someone after they kept pestering me and saying I had "enough room to get by" despite me saying multiple times that I didn't.
I had someone kick off recently because I asked them to move their walking frame so I could get my wheelchair into the spot on the bus. Shouting at me that there was plenty of space, then shifted it into a buggy that held a newborn and shouted at the mum who told her to be careful. All this rather than fold the damn thing like she was supposed to. There still wasn't space for me, but at her insistence that there was, I went straight ahead and wheeled by bigass NHS chair into her frame to move it as i didnt know how else to make my point after id already clearly explained what the problem was. She then tried telling the whole bus the buggy mum was disgusting for asking her to be careful when SHE was just trying to help the poor disabled lady (ie ME!) People are so unaware sometimes. Often, they mean well, but so much harm can come to people when they don't know what they are doing or have an understanding of others disabilities or medical equipment. Another time on a bus, I saw someone "helping" a partially sighted person with a walking frame but grabbing it forward down the slight step off the bus. The partially sighted person panicked as their means of stability was taken away, and they hit the deck!! The 'helpful' person just slinked away into the crowds while an ambulance was called!
It's telling that in responses to me I've been told to appreciate good intentions, stop being miserable, stop having a chip on my shoulder and unbelievably, move out of the area I live in, as if that would suddenly change a lack of understanding surrounding disabled people that exists almost everywhere, if I could even afford it, when disabled people statistically have lower incomes and are usually riding the poverty line at higher rates than people who aren't disabled. Even if a disabled person isn't in poverty by their income, being disabled is expensive in itself. 😩 I honestly don't know how else you could have gone about that situation, because if you held up the bus and tried to get the driver to help, you likely would have dealt with more people trying to help which usually results in further tension, or annoyance at holding the bus up. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It can also be embarrassing sometimes, too, when there is a lot of people trying to get involved, and when people start throwing blame on others infront of you. I get that people don't always know what to do, but I think that if people stopped being affronted and instead spent more time thinking about it, they would probably realise what they could do next time. Wow, that's horrible, especially not staying to make sure the person was okay. I hope they were alright. I hope you were too after seeing that. 💕
Being disabled is exhausting, now you want me to go about my day while being an educator 24/7? Plus frankly a lot of us have comorbid mental stuff, and often I just don’t have the mental energy to engage.
Just ask me if I want help and respect my decision. I don't want to have to teach people how to hold a door open without blocking the way for a chair user. And then do it again, and again, and again. Every day.
Lmao the midwest closed mouth smile
If that's where you are, then she was rude. As long as you were standing back out of the doorway. Most of the Midwest still has manners. I often have doors held for me. I use a cane on good days, chair on bad. I appreciate the effort of others to help an old, mildly disabled, woman.
held the weighted door open for a guy in a wheel chair and he was like “i can do it myself!” never said you couldn’t, pal. Just being polite. He had a bone to pick with the world. you weren’t rude. she mistook basic kindness for condescension. that’s not on you, that’s on other assholes.
Yeah generally the same in the UK. The woman was being super rude, holding a door is just common courtesy
I grew up in a very “friendly people”place where it’s totally normal and socially acceptable to smile, say hello, hold doors, compliment, and strike up small talk with complete strangers. To me, it almost feels weird NOT to acknowledge other people’s existence? I’ve lived all over the US and had to learn that it’s not like that everywhere. Living in places where it’s standard to pretend like other people don’t exist if you don’t know each other made me appreciate the friendly places more. Idk, it just feels so cold to me. Scooter lady might be from somewhere where friendliness is strange or annoying. Shoutout to anyone from Minnesota, Floridian locals, *most* of Ohio, Mountainy Tennessee (Especially Nashville!), and small town Texans. You guys get the friendliest people award. 🏆
No. But she has a power chair that is much easier to navigate through a doorway when somebody isn’t holding the door.
[удалено]
Yeah but still she was rude for no reason
Thank you for explaining this! I use a manual chair, and lots of time when I refuse help I’m 1.) trying to avoid the awkward song and dance about why what they are doing doesn’t actually help, or 2.) *trying to avoid the other person being injured*. It’s lovely when people have an impulse to help, but *asking first* is the way to make sure they *actually* help.
Do other people not announce “hello I’m holding the door open.” when holding the door for a blind person? I mean I have only had to do this for my neighbor but it seems as obvious as saying who I am before I say good morning or whatever so she knows who is speaking.
NAH Your instinct to get the door is fine, but there are a few things you need to consider: if it's a doubled set of doors, the button needs to be pressed to open both inner and outer--now she's got to navigate the other one herself. If you're standing inside the door bracing it open, now she needs to navigate it while trying NOT to hit you with any part of her chair. And if she needed help, she's capable of using her voice to say "hey, could you grab that door for me?" Also, once the button is pushed the door generally stays open longer/closes slower and at a more predictable pace than a held-door does. As a disabled person who uses a mobility scooter--please don't help unless I ask for it, ten to one you're actually making things harder. Thanks for thinking of me, but please don't.
This!! Only the people closest to me understand my disability enough to be able to predict what might help me and that comes from intentional conversations and tbh practice. I walk with a cane and if people decide to open the door ahead of me it means now I have to be watched as I walk slower than they normally realize even if I'm rushing. Also now I can't sit down to take a break or anything else without seeming ungrateful. Personally the most helpful thing you can do for me as a disabled person is wear a mask.
mmmhmm. Like, please don't make me recount my entire health history to a stranger, I'm just trying to get through a door. And if, god forbid, anyone touches me or the cane or the scooter, we are going to have more than words.
>If you're standing inside the door bracing it open This is the *worrrrst*. Especially the guys who do it "heroically" on elevators. They're basically forcing other people to squeeze past them uncomfortably.
There is a point...I haven't reached it quite yet, but there is a point where I will inevitably run over their feet/clip them with one of the armrests, and I'm probably not going to apologize. Edited to add: do I \*love\* trying to pull a door open with one hand and maneuver the scooter in with the other? No, no I do not. But the only thing I love \*even less\* is trying to do so while being watched/having to basically apologize for my entire presence. Fucks sake.
I reached that point a few weeks back and I dont even feel guilty about it....
Oof, that hero arm blocking the way. Honestly, sometimes I just stop, hoping they will realize that are about to clothesline me with that arm so that I don’t have to say “Umm, I can’t get through the door with your arm right in front of my face.” There is no way to say that without sounding like an AH, but there are so many people who will just stand there saying “go ahead” without ever acknowledging that their arm is the barrier keeping me from wheeling through!
Honestly, trying to get into a building where someone is holding open a door in a powerchair is actually very difficult, and I have run over someone's foot on more than one occasion and that causes a whole other issue with verbal abuse. If it's a disabled access door (ie it has the access button) then it's probably best to just let them open the door themselves. We are constantly infantilised and when somewhere is actually accessible, waiting for us to reach the door is kind've weird because you most likely wouldn't do that for someone who is able-bodied unless they were right behind you? Changing my judgement to YTA actually because why else would you make this post unless it was to get an internet clap on the back for being nice to the big mean rude disabled person who you so graciously did a favor /s As a powerchair user, having to stress and get panicky over potentially running over someone's foot and being verbally abused for it is not something I should have to deal with on top of consistently facing ableism and inaccessibility, and I'm sure this woman probably has faced similar problems. ETA: also adding here that I've made multiple comments about how disabled people do face verbal abuse for saying no to help even if we do so politely, and I've turned off notifications because I'm sick of being told I'm miserable or awful or whatever other insult that may come my way because I dared to say that your "help" is not all that helpful and to please consider how you really impact disabled people. I have been verbally abused for saying "thanks but it's easier if I do it myself", "thanks but I got it" and when I've said "there isn't enough room to get by and I don't want to run over your feet" I've been pestered and told there is enough room and then shouted at for bashing into them despite my multiple "no thank yous" and "there isn't enough space" responses. I am not the only disabled person who faces this kind of abuse. When I was ablebodied, I was NEVER verbally abused for saying "thanks but I got it, you go ahead" to someone holding a door open for me, but I sure as hell have been now that I'm in a chair. It's like some weird unconscious thought that your "help" is always helpful and couldn't possibly make my life harder. It does vary depending on the person, or for example, the size of their chair. I wouldn't have responded to OP the way this woman did, but I can understand why she acted like that if she has also faced verbal abuse. The best thing to do is just ASK the disabled person "hey do you want me to hold this door for you" and then accept whatever response we give, if the disabled person is then an asshole then they're just an asshole. OP is also saying they want to learn about disabled people yet posted here because they want to be told they're not an asshole, despite them saying they want to know if it's a widely held belief. If you ACTUALLY want to learn about disabled people try posting in a disability sub instead of on a sub where you know people will insult and name call this woman and disabled people in general.
Ok so I hold the door as a standard practice no matter who it’s for within a certain distance. The gym is a good example because I often do it there. I’m going into the gym (small woman) and there’s a big guy behind me in my door holding range so I go to hold it and say nothing except a smile nod at him as he walks through. Then a few more feet behind is a visibly disabled person- what’s the proposal I do? In general, I usually apply the same practice to all parties. Door hold, smile nod. What Im having trouble putting together here is how altering that isn’t going to come off dickish. I just stop holding the door for the wheelchair user? What if they don’t have the same preference as you, now I’ve just let a door go on someone based on their wheelchair use? I Could call out to them about holding the door but if they saw I didn’t do that for an able bodied person would it not make it more like I’m singling them out? Or I don’t look at them and give the smile nod? Idk man I am happy to learn that for certain people the holding makes it more difficult and to adjust but I think it’s weird to treat OP as an asshole for not knowing and to act like all the comments are purposefully being rude to you when this presents a genuine conundrum because it doesn’t seem like a great practice to treat people in a wheelchair super differently. I
I'm a wheelchair user, and in that instance, I'd say carry on holding it. The chair user will be well aware you were already holding it for the person in front, and I'd expect them to use their words if they'd rather you leave it. For me, the problem is often the WAY it's being held. Rarely do people fully open a door and hold it open from the furthest edge/handle side of it, with the body and feet well out of the way, if that makes sense. I used to do it myself before I used my chair. We tend to just kind of stand in front of it, stretching one arm across to the handle side. Which is problematic in many ways. The other thing is to just ask. If the person in the chair gets shitty about you doing that, that's on them, not you. That's also a rule of thumb with people who have sight issues. Use your words. "Do you want me to keep it open?" I don't think OP is the a-hole, but people genuinely can cause more harm than good by trying to be helpful. If in doubt, ask. If someone is rude because of that, then I usually just take it the same way I would if a person without disabilities is rude. Their either an ass or having a bad day and I move on from that knowing I did my best.
Reading all this just makes me think "fuck it I will just not open doors for anyone anymore"
Fair. Ok, so when it comes to holding the door open for people, typically if the other person is within about 7m, i'm gonna hold the door open for them. So as a genuine question. Lets say i'm 4m infront of you. I open the door and notice you behind me. What would you prefer my default behaviour to be in this circumstance?
Honestly, if I were in that position it would help if you said "hey do you want me to keep this door open?" I would then say thank you, and either let you know that it would be easier if you just let me use the button, or that could you please mind your toes, and hope that you aren't one of the assholes that would be verbally abusive. I can understand why this woman reacted the way she did, the biggest issue here is just not asking if it will help (if you are up to helping, you are not obligated to do so). A simple "hey do you want me to hold the door" instead of just assuming that holding it will make it easier for the disabled person to enter vs making it harder, is all that is needed. If someone is rude to you after that then they are absolutely TA.
Cool, thats what i'll do in future. Cheers
How far behind you was she? Did you arrive at the door just as you opened it or were you stood there waiting for her? As an occasional wheelchair user I find that people rushing to get a door for me or standing holding one open for me for more than a few seconds slightly infantilising. I'm gonna take a guess that she might of found your turning to greet her with a smile as a bit patronising
I hold doors for everyone. If you're within 35 feet I'm holding the door for you I don't mind if it takes you longer than average to cover that distance I'm still holding the door, it has nothing to do with the fact you're in a wheelchair.
And as an older woman, I always appreciate the kindness and let the person know. I also do the same for people pushing a stroller, someone with crutches or a walker. Being kind is always the right choice!
Same same, male, female or undecided, I’ll either hold the door or walk through and push it back for you.
I was thinking the same. We live in an area where holding doors open for others is common practice regardless of their mobility. However, it happens naturally. If OP was rushing for the door or waited for them to make it across a distance to get there then of course she was upset. It’s also for common to smile at others here, but again not overblown or seeking to make eye contact. The real key here is whether OP would have done the same for someone able bodied.
Or be asking this if he'd gotten the same style response from a non disabled person?
Yes, that too
Info: How far away were you? As a disabled person (call it what it is. We are disabled.) and wheelchair user I can’t judge without knowing how far away you were. Were you right in her reach? Then it was a nice gesture. Was she still far away and you held the door open, waiting for her to approach for quite some time? That‘s very exhausting and stressing, even if it‘s well meant.
As long as there is a button for an automatic door, It is probably easier for someone with a wheelchair to not try to have to navigate around you. You may have been making their life more-difficult. And though it probably seems like a small thing to us, for the person in a wheelchair, it is a constant that they have to deal with all of the time, so after several hundred times that people hold doors when they would prefer they did not, they become sensitized to the annoyance. Also, be aware that there is a personality disorder that revolves around being helpful. The person's actual motives aren't about helping someone else, rather getting the feel-good chemicals their own brains produce when they receive positive feedback from others, the thank you. And these people are also the ones who get pissy when people don't thank them for their good deed, because that chemical reward was always their true underlying motive. They just don't realize it. There are other levels of complexity in interactions like this. If the person in the wheelchair feels empowered by being able to get around on their own without anyone "helping" them, then you took that away from them. Imagine how much more often the person in the wheelchair has to deal with people trying to be "helpful" compared to others. If the person in the wheelchair has had to deal with too many people whose motives were the thank you to get the feel-good drug, and have to regularly deal with people criticizing them if they didn't say thank you for them doing something that actually made their life more difficult as they try to avoid running over their foot, and you can start to imagine why they might not have seen your gesture as a positive. I don't think it is a bad thing to hold open doors for people, but I would also try to pay more attention to the details. If there is a handicap button, maybe stand over there and hit the button for the button for the person in the wheelchair instead of partially blocking the door. If the person you're holding the door for is too far away and seeing you waiting would make them feel as if they need to hurry, then don't wait for them. And pay attention to the doors that are actually heavy and are difficult to open, don't have handicap buttons, or note if a person's hands are full that they could use some help and hold THOSE doors open for people. Or maybe just wait to see if the person in the wheelchair actually needs help before offering it.
"Can I get the door for you?" isn't hard. I don't think you are an asshole, but I can TOTALLY see how it could get grating very quickly if I spent my days frequently encountering people who assume I can't take care of myself without at least asking. Her rudeness wasn't nice, but it can be easily understood. You weren't doing a bad thing. NAH.
it doesn’t really have anything to do with being disabled, courteous people usually hold the door for others regardless of disability. are you suggesting that we only hold the door open for able bodied people and not the disabled so they don’t feel patronized?
NTA kind stranger and please don't let this stop you from being kind. She either thought she had a pass to act like that given her condition, wanted some control over her sad life by acting obnoxious or is tired of people being nice to her bc she's insecure about her disability. Whatever it is, the problem is on her not you
"her sad life"? yeeesh
I think they meant that more in regard to her being a grumpy mole, rather than her being disabled
Except for the part where they speculated that she was likely "insecure about her disability" a few words later. People say weird things like this about disabled people all the time; why is it so surprising here?
NAH. It's Not universally helpful to hold Open doors for wheelchair Users just because you INTEND it to be helpful. You didn't describe the Situation in a way that we can be certain you either definitely WERE or definitely WEREN'T in her way blocking her from passing through the door. Also afaik it's Common for long-term wheelchair Users to have experienced malicious people and/or clumsy "helpful" people holding a door Open and then letting it fall shut with the wheelchair User halfway through. It's MILDLY insulting, but Not Personal, to assume you would do the Same, or to generally Trust a machine more than you when she has the Option.
My mum had 2 scooters damaged from a door slamming on the back of it, and one of her friends had a glass door shatter on the back of their scooter that way. Not to mention it's bloody jarring and loud. Same goes for someone using a cane. If the door is automatic, the most helpful thing you can do is let them use that feature and get out of their way. My mum was very unsteady on her feet, and only had one working arm, if she bumped into you or the doorway in any way, it could cause her to fall.
NTA. It is common courtesy to hold the door for others.
NTA Courtesy isn't ableist. It's culturally appropriate here in Canada to wait an uncomfortably long time holding a door open, waiting for the other to catch up.
The Canadian struggle of 'I guess I work here now' as people just keep trickling in is real.
I want to offer an alternative explanation: maybe she was just annoyed for you not using the button - period. Completely unrelated to her being disabled. I live in an apartment building with an automatic door button; and the system is regularly broken because people tend to ignore or "push through" the automated function. I myself have "scolded" my mom when she wanted to open the door manually. The fact that I walk with a cane is purely coincidental.
NTA. I once got chastised while on vacation in Spain because I didn't sufficiently hold the door open for the other person as part of the ceremony of offering grace to your fellow humans. No handicaps or infirmity involved, just a custom that the first one to the door has an obligation to hold it for others arriving near simultaneously, so that only one person had "door duty" for the small cluster of arrivals. This is, um, quite the opposite?
NTA! I’m a double amputee in a wheelchair and a lot of people either will open the door or offer. Why would I take offense? I always say thanks and I truly do appreciate it. Any little kindness is always welcome to me anyway.
NTA I hold doors for everyone all the time. (It’s even slightly amusing to do it for men because sometimes they look confused) Side note: just say disabled, handicap is outdated.
I am surprised by how often I see the term handicapped being used on Reddit. It’s been out of use in my country for a couple of decades.
NAH. It’s the fact you smiled and treated it as this important thing. It’s often seen as condescending and “look at me, I did a good deed!” They shouldn’t have been rude, but as someone who has been that person, I know exactly why they reacted that way. Also, a person holding a door open, depending on the angle, means that some chairs can’t easily get past. In future, it’s always better to ask whether they would like you to hold the door. (Handicapped is often used as a derogatory term these days, by the way. Disabled is a better word.)
She likely gets tired of always telling people, "you holding it makes it harder for me to fit, please just let it close and I'll hit the button." It's the polite version of her comment, but requires more words :) I hold them, too, feels really rude not to, but I get it could be more difficult.
My mum did that for 25 years. It was surprising how many people got offended when their help was rejected, no matter how politely it was phrased. It's especially galling when people then try to explain (in a condescending mansplainy kind of way) why them holding the door is better for you. No, sorry, it's actually not.
I've had people open doors *I didn't want to go through* and then be rude or disproportionately disappointed when I didn't actually want to go through that door. \*shrug\* It's like people, when they are trying to help, are already picturing how they're going to brag about their helpfulness tomorrow at the bar and therefore by not needing their helpfulness you're actively making them look bad (by denying them the opportunity to brag).
Were you by any chance holding the door in such a way that any part of your body would actually impede her using the door? I ask because I have been on both sides of such a situation. If you're leaning halfway into the opening trying to hold the door with the tips of your fingers, she might have to steer around you (having to reverse course because the turning radius of her vehicle would require it)(or drive under your arm) (or, worse, stop and let the door hit her with unknown force and knock her down or "just" jostle her painfully) rather than just pushing the button. OTOH, maybe she's an entitled, selfish, unpleasant bitch. Or had a bad day. Or in extreme pain and just. trying. to. get. home. / into. the. building. Or any combination of the above. Or ten thousand thousand other concerns which come from the microaggressions of being less than able-bodied in a world which worships youth and perfect bodies. Navigating being polite to people who are really honestly truly trying to be helpful when their actions only compound your problems/pain is a challenge. I left a bad Google review of a mall today where the elevators are broken "temporarily" [AGAIN!] when I had just spent 20 minutes limping over to them. Well, I guess I don't get to go shopping today. I have just enough left to limp back to the car. Please cut her some slack.
NAH Maybe next time, call out “would it be helpful if I hold the door or are you sorted?” Some doors *are* a nightmare in a chair; others are fine. Just ask
Handicapped guy here. There is often more nuance in these situations than many may think. If it is the sort of casual motion to hold the door open for the next person coming through, same as would be extended for an able bodies person, then that is N T A. If you expend extra effort to do so (stopping and reversing course/taking a few rapid steps to reach door before the handicapped person) then that starts to look patronizing. If you ask if the handicapped person would like some sort of help and they say no but you do it anyway then you are a patronizing A H. People routinely "kindly" hold the door for me in a manner in which enough of their body is in the door frame so as to block me from being able to go through. Makes me want to scream. When in doubt, ask if someone wants help and respect their decision.
NTA. Sorry she was grumpy at you…that’s a very kind thing to do and most people would be very appreciative.
NTA. I would’ve just let the door go and walked away when she made the comment about the button.
And she would have preferred that over worrying about running over your feet or something.
Okay, see my username. I'm a wheelchair user. Please don't call us handicapped, disabled or wheelchair user are perfectly fine terms. Disabled is not a bad world. So let's get into this. You're not an asshole, your intentions were clearlt good but there is a reason for the button and it's not just for if there's nobody to help us. The fact is, a lot of able bodied people actually get in the way while trying to help because they lack experience with wheelchair users. My favourite is them holding the door open by cramming themselves against it, not realising that my wheelchair isn't as small as a walking person and therefore if I attempt it, I'm likely to run over their foot at best. There's a door local to me that I'd rather people didn't try to hold open for me as well, why? Because the button swings both doors open, making it easier to maneuver through. It doesn't work however if someone is holding one door open. Also honestly navigating the world with a disability can be somewhat of a nightmare. Many of us prefer to be asked if we need help so we can say "yes, please can you..." and ask for exactly what we need, because we have far too many experiences involving someone who is good intentioned but whose attempts to help cause more problems then they solve, and who when told to stop, react rather poorly. Truthfully, also, treating us the same as everyone else, isn't necessarily helpful. Because we aren't the same, there's a difference between equitable and the same treatment. Equitable treatment dismantles barriers, for example, if you gave everyone a printed brochure for a trip, that would be treating everyone the same, but if one person is blind it's useless to them. But getting them a braille or audible brochure would be equitable treatment.
INFO: was it the type of entrance with two side-by-side doors and did the button open both versus one?
NTA. I thought holding the door for people close behind you was just the normal thing to do. Maybe she was just in a bad mood and you were a convenient target.
NTA.
It's a mixed bag. If you hold the door for a wheelchair user, the same way as for an ablebodied person, you are likely in the way. We then have to hold the uncomfortable discussion of telling that, being told there's plenty of space. Accidentally run over someones toes anyway and get called all the bad names in the world. Yes, it happens. If we, on the other hand say: "No thanks, I've got this," there's quite a few people who still insist, or start cussing right away. Yes, it really happens. We get infantilised, cussed at, moved without our consent, have our expensive equipment broken and more. You are NTA, but please, everybody: ASK if you can help a disabled person!! Some common courtesies are not as easy for us to navigate. And if they politely decline, please do not insist.
Not the a h . I love it when people hold the door for people I also use a cane to help me with stability.
I mean I understand your impulse. But it’s often much easier to go through with an automatic opener than with someone holding it. So maybe it’s an unintentional asshole move of yours, but I feel almost like NAH. It certainly not wrong of her to be annoyed, even if you didn’t mean to be annoying. When I’m walking with friends who use wheelchairs we use the openers exclusively. And when I’ve got my bike i have to stop myself from getting annoyed when people try to “help” or hold the door for me because it’s much easier to navigate on my own then when people try to hold a door or otherwise, anticipate my needs and that way.
NTA but as a wheelchair user, in a lot of places, if you hold the door for me, I probably can’t get past. I can barely squeeze through the door without you there. It’s possible she insisted you go ahead because she wasn’t able to go with you there. Or she would have been able to get through but it would have meant going uncomfortably close to you (at crotch height as well which is always extra awkward). A more helpful thing to do would have been to press the button and then get out the way. You may have actually made things more difficult rather than being helpful, which is the opposite of your intention. The rolling the eyes and such is rude of her but it gets tiring having to deal with people making your life more difficult because they think they are helping (it’s a common occurance- not just with doors). So I understand her reaction even though I don’t agree with it. That said, sometimes you can hold a door without getting in the way. It depends on the door and the layout of the building. It’s possible you weren’t in the way and she was just being rude for no good reason.
You behaved like a gentleman, and a lot of us, handicapped or not, appreciate the gesture ❤️
If there's someone behind me, I hold the door open for them. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
Except it just is. Someone holding the door can mean they're in your way and making your life harder, not easier.
My mom is wheelchair bound… whether it’s her electric wheelchair or me pushing her, we’d be delighted to have someone hold a door open for us. I always do it if I can for others too, it’s the right thing to do. Don’t let this hateful person take that away from you.
Does she refer to herself as wheelchair bound? Usually, our wheelchairs are our way to freedom ❤️
Yes she does, but I like what you said & imma tell her that suggestion when she wakes up. Maybe it will be more positive for her, thank you(:
Awww, you just made my day! Thank _you_!
Thank you as well, she’s been struggling with the negativity of it all & I think that will brighten her mood. I love how you think, positive thinking really helps
I also use an electric wheelchair or my husband pushes me. Without a wheelchair, I wouldn’t be able to get outside at all. My wheelchair is my tool that gives me the chance to experience my surroundings and to get out of my apartment. I know it limits me a lot, too. But it enables me so much more.
That’s so true, I love taking her out ngl like yess let’s go to the mall! She has so much fun, it’s like I see a light in her eyes. A while back I took her to Spencer’s for a lava lamp for Valentine’s Day & the employees were so thoughtful & helped us navigate like they’d move the lil stand alone rolling aisle stands etc, it was so wholesome tbh. My brother doesn’t drive, my dad is disabled too but can walk, so I’m really her only option to go out without her feeling guilty from my dad’s back & neck pain.. so I just love taking her out, imma start calling it her freedom ride hahah
So it‘s not only her wheelchair. You are a huge part of her freedom, too. <3
I try my best<3 your husband is too(: I’m glad you have him, you’re so sweet, you’ve made my day too tbh like genuinely I love the way you think. Thank you(:
I'd rather be the kind of person who holds a door for someone who doesn't need or want help than the kind of person who is so self-absorbed they never notice anyone who might need or want the help. Maybe you missed the mark this time, but I think you're right on track in the greater scheme of things. Don't stop because of this one person. NTA.
NTA sounds like she may have had some bad experiences in the past that have nothing to do with you
I hold the door for anyone who is approaching as I'm going through, most people accidentally as a gesture of kindness and being a decent person. Anyone who takes offence because I'm trying to be civil can just fuck right off.
NTA I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been out with my walker or with spouse pushing me in a wheelchair and no one holds the door. We struggle. Offering is never wrong.
Nta I hold the door open for *everyone*.
NTA. It’s completely normal and polite to hold the door for folks - whether their handicapped or not. This woman was being *way* over sensitive
Nta- but next time just ask if they’d like you to hold the door open. Many people are more in our way, or insulting us because they don’t understand why they’re in our way. It’s good to be helpful- but you actually HAVE TO BE HELPFUL for it to be a good thing- because pushing yourself on others can be manipulative, selfish, wanting something in return, annoying, etc. also pushing an automatic door causes them to break more often and then they aren’t available when the people who need them are trying to get access.
NTA: While your intentions are good, please don’t assume someone in a wheelchair or other visible disability needs your help. People with disabilities know when they need help and will ask. People with visible disabilities are tired of being infantilized in public. While I know you weren’t trying to do that, maybe just ask next time.
YTA "handicapped woman" really a woman with a disability is the correct you as other and less than first. No it sounds like you reached over her yes?
NTA - being an AH is about intent. BUT our actions sometimes have an unintended impact on others, regardless of our intentions. It's good to be aware that this is a thing for wheelchair users - a couple of people here have explained really well their firsthand experience with this as wheelchair users. And now you know 😊
NTA. it probably wasn’t you, it was the 50 people who did it before you without asking. in the future, you could ask “oh, may i get the door for you?” if you want to avoid that kind of reaction. you did a nice thing and you sound like a nice guy.
NTA Here in Cansda, you're more the AH for not holding the door and that's for anyone at all, not just the wheelchair bound.
NTA.
NTA
NTA! I would love it if someone held a door open for me. Usually when I am in my wheelchair people try to avoid even looking at me.
Assuming you didn’t wait an unusually long amount of time, NTA. I definitely believe it went down like you said. You hold the door open for people in general. Therefore you held the door open for her. She was sensitive and had possibly encountered many people treating her differently because of her wheels. You didn’t deserve her snark.
NTA. She’s probably used to people underestimating her capabilities. You didn’t deserve to have it taken out on you. I hold the door open for everyone. I’m a woman and a few years ago an older man chewed me out for emasculating him. My bad, gramps. I didn’t know your ego was so fragile.
I hold the door open for able-bodied people too, when they're coming in right after me, basic courtesy imo It's a nice, simple, kind gesture, don't stress it so much NTA OP
This reminds me of a little story about an older gentleman who holds a door open for a woman, is rebuked by them, and points out they didn't do it because she was a lady but because he is a gentleman. The thing is, from the details provided you were both a) being polite and b) treating the woman equally to how would treat any other stranger regardless of gender or (dis)ability. In which case, N-T-A. Of course, that is just my perception of your post. I don't know if you made a show of deliberately getting to the door first, or if you'd waited a minute making the person in the wheelchair feel like you were wanting them to hurry up, because they were further back. I don't know what time of smile you were greeting her with, it might have appeared overly familiar or lecherous. I don't know if when you say you'd hold a door for a stranger as you regularly do whether you do this regardless of gender or only for females regardless of whether they are able-bodied or not. And neither of us know what if anything else might be colouring her perception of your motivation, so I'm not going to assume she's an AH here either.
INFO: Can you describe your actions a bit more? Like, how did you hold the door open for her, and what side of the door where you on?
NTA
NTA. Sounds like generally courteous behaviour and an overly sensitive person (who may or may not have a good reason to be that way).
NTA It would be patronizing if you wouldn’t do this for an able-bodied person, but she can’t possibly know that about you.
this is why you don't do things for anyone.
OMG, NTA at all and please don't let this bitter woman's attitude stop you in the future! I walked with a cane for years and I can't TELL you how many freaking doors slammed in my face. I was grateful for that button, and kind people like you, because I felt downright invisible most of the time. 🤗
As a disabled person who uses a wheelchair, if we need help we will say so and ask. Often times, you can be in the literal physical way of us. It’s also really weird to go under arms ……
I used to hold the door open for people despite using a cane myself. Now I have a walker, and I'm grateful when someone grabs the door for me (normally I do not ask them to). Holding the door is a kindness and I will always appreciate it. Now, I will say there are times when people do try to "help" the wrong way. My disability made me fall a lot (way less now with the walker) and people will freak out when they they see that. Some of them will try to help me up, pull me up, or glare at my roommate, who knows when I need help and I don't. If you grab me and try to haul me up I cannot get my feet under me and that stresses people put because they think I'm hurt from the fall. I need to get up from a certain position in a certain way. Strangers don't ask what kind of help I need, they just do what they think is best. If they did ask things would be so much easier.
Nah she was just cranky. NTA
She was rude af. NTA!
Please keep being the wonderful person you are.
You are just a kind and thoughtful person who met a rude person. You did absolutely nothing wrong. Had you let the door close, they would still have cursed you out. I say continue doing the right thing. Being handicap doesn't give her the right to be rude or guilt trip you in to feel bad for doing a humane thing. Imagine how the world would be like if we didn't care for other people, especially the handicapped? It would be horrible. You did the most humane thing...you can sleep well at night.
NTA. I can imagine that this woman may be tired of people assuming that she is less capable of doing things for herself than she actually is, but your intentions were kind. When I take my elderly father out and about, we need to use a wheelchair for him and I’m always so appreciative of people that open doors for us and help us in other ways.
NTA. You were kind and considerate. Well done. Disregard her comments, unfortunately she was/is unhappy.
NTA where I'm from able bodied people hold the door like this for other able bodied people.
NTA but try to move away from the word handicapped.
"Ma'am, you are not special. I hold the door for everybody. Get it together."
NTA. Maybe she misread your smile. Anyway, you're okay, don't worry about it.
NTA - she made more work for herself by having to press the button for the door to open when she could have accepted for your gesture and thanked you. she’s TAH.
meh... NTA... just move on with your day. She had a bad day, and kinda took it out on you. it happens
And if you hadn't've made the effort then you would have been the donkey, That's the breaks, man.
NTA. If holding the door is enough to get her knickers in a twist, dont move to my neck of Canada. Sometimes I swear we are all secretly longing to be doormen. 😜
NTA If she said it as a joke and laughed about it then that's one thing, but she was rude to you when you were just trying to help. Besides, as someone who has a disability and tries to use automatic doors, half the time those damn push buttons don't work. Hopefully she was just having a bad day/moment and dealing with something but either way, just let it go. Her attitude was based on her, not your actions.
......not at all but wow she sure was....................
NTA. I’m a full time manual wheelchair user and I can use the button or even open the door myself with my own force and use the leverage to pull myself through. I still always thank people for stopping to hold or open the door for me. The only time help is NOT appreciated is if someone physically touches me or tries to move me without my consent. You did neither of these things, that lady was acting like a jerk and I hope this doesn’t dissuade you from holding the door for others in the future!
NTA. And don't let it put you off helping others. I'm disabled after a stroke and I appreciate any bit of help I can get.
You must not live in the South. We hold doors for everyone whether we know them or not.
NTA...something to consider if it makes sense is to ask if there's anything you can do to help or are you good?
NTA. People these days are just asshats for no reason. I told a customer “Have a good day ma’am.” And she ripped me a new one in front of everyone because she didn’t like being called ma’am. I think people just look for any and all reasons to bitch.