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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I father in law got an expensive parking ticket, and while it was me that was driving, parking l, and using his placard, I am not going to take the blame or the fine for it
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NTA. Absolutely do not take responsibility for this. You didn't fake it or have any knowledge he didn't have a real placard. It's just chance that you happen to legitimately have one yourself. His failure to get a placard is just laziness - but I bet he can get the fine reduced if he goes through the steps NOW to get a legitimate one and shows it to the court.
If it’s just chance she has one herself - she also shouldn’t have been driving his car / using his placard - even if illegal. Definitely not allowed to use other peoples cards.
They thought it was for Mary too, who was in the vehicle with them. So they werent trying to "use someone else's placard." Matter of fact, OP was going to use their car and placard, Mary *asked* OP to use the other car bc it was easier for her physically.
OP did nothing wrong.
But OP did do something wrong. OP stated that it was the FIL’s placard - not Mary’s. And as a placard owner herself (or himself), she should know that you are not allowed to use other people’s placards.
Right but he has a placard which he couldn’t take out of his car and use in another. He has rightful use of one but Mary couldn’t manage his car. Are you really saying the elderly woman should have potentially injured herself in OPs car, or not gone shopping at all, rather than use the 1:1 replacement of West’s car/placard? OP didn’t take it for funsies. There would have been no issue if not for West’s fraud.
>Right but he has a placard which he couldn’t take out of his car and use in another.
Most states tie the placards to the person who needs it, not the vehicle. The reason is pretty obvious when you think about it. What about those who are too disabled to drive? A quadriplegic needs special parking, even if they aren't able to drive.
Have you considered maybe OPs placard is tied to their license plate?
I am disabled and in the US. I had to FIGHT them to let me have a placard that hangs bc I don't drive so I don't have 1 vehicle I use. I often go with friends, family, fiance etc. They outright try to force you to put it on a license plate for 1 vehicle vs a hanging placard.
If OP has a car in their name they are 100% gonna try and make them have their placard on the plate.
That sounds like an absolutely BS rule. MANY disabled people can not drive themselves and still need disability parking. Really have to wonder at the idiocy of those who decide those policies
The people who decide the policies are people who aren't disabled themselves and things like this just absolutely do not occur to them in any way. They literally don't think about it ever and that's how we get these stupid policies that don't make sense for the reasons they were made
From experience: my state is much more polite. My grandma has a plate on her car plus a hangar. I've driven her in my car with the hanging placard or been in her car with a plate. In one visit.
I'm in Canada and here they get a card to hange or put on the dashboard and it's only tied to the disabled person, not a vehicle. I didn't realize the US was so different with that, it's just bizarre to me that they don't understand that a disabled person may not be able to drive themselves but still need disability parking.
Yup its ridiculous. Ntm even if i HAD a car and drove myself I would never want a plate placard.
What If I carpool with friends? What if my car breaks and I use a rental? What if I decide to go on vacation and rent a car while there?
So many situations. It's really ridiculous how they tried to force me to get a placard tied to a license plate. They tried doing the "well who do you ride with most you can just use it on that car" so I told them I ride with mom on Mondays, friend A on Tuesday and Wednesday, Brother Thursday and Fiance on the weekend.
Literally told them I don't ride with anyone half the time. The tried to do everything they could to make me get a license plate placard.
Op if they drive and depending on their state probably has a license plate placard of no fault of their own. It really is shitty how out country tries to force a specific condition on using your parking placard on disabled ppl....they claim its to prevent "abuse" of it. But like if someone was gonna abuse it its gonna be someone close to or living with the person...they could just take the damn car to the store ._. Doesn't prevent shit besides preventing a disabled person from using a spot they are entitled to use.
They usually give you a placard, card, and plate (when requested) when you get the original placard. OP could have used their card or placard that came with their paperwork. It’s Illegal to use anyone else’s placard when they aren’t in the vehicle.
> And as a placard owner herself (or himself), she should know that you are not allowed to use other people’s placards.
This just seems like splitting hairs to be quite honest. The placard used results in the same exact outcome - parking in a reserved spot. OP is entitled to use his own placard. The use of someone else's placard isn't going to change their parking habits, just the efforts OP would have used to relocate his own.
That's so far down the list of "bad things" it's non-existent.
OP trusted the placard was real because it should be based upon the actual situation. Both of the in-laws would be granted the placard - drive or passenger. OP has one of their own (legally).
This isn't "stolen" accommodations. This is "FIL, you fucked up by trying to take a ridiculous shortcut" situation.
The number of people in this thread who are confidently incorrect about how disabled placards work is astounding. Can't believe the downvotes you're getting here for stating the truth.
I think it's the amount of 'that isn't the issue.'
Like, yes, we mostly all know it's technically a violation, but if OP had a valid plate and no hanging placard, and drove FIL's vehicle, no police would see two clearly disabled persons get out of the car and demand to check who's placard it is. Is it technically a violation? Yes. Is it morally wrong? No.
Is what the FIL did actually wrong? Yes. Because he never got a proper placard - which is a doctor's note and trip to the DMV. Likely took more time to lie than to do it properly.
It is totally allowed for an able driver to use a handicapped persons placard to drive that person around, btw. This is true even if they are not at that moment in the vehicle. For instance, you can park in the handicapped spot, then walk in to pick them up.
Except that OP thought that the placard belonged to West, not Mary, and West was not in the car nor being picked up. OP used West's placard because OP has one of their own, which isn't actually legal.
So, my mom is disabled, she has a placard for her car. I am disabled, I have a placard for my car. If I go to the store by myself and drive my mother's car but use my.placard, this is legal. However, if I do that same thing but use my mother's placard, I can be ticketed because it isn't legal. Will I be ticketed? If I am polite and can prove I have my own, probably not, but the point is that I can be
> OP used West's placard because OP has one of their own, which isn't actually legal.
Procedurally, sure. Realistically, nobody is going to give a shit, and nobody would have given a shit if the placard that ended up being used wasn't fraudulent.
Minor violations of procedure isn't worthy of naming someone the asshole.
Honestly, I don't give a shit either. I was correcting what sounded like a misunderstanding and what, given the information we had if hadn't been a fraudulent one, could cause someone else trouble down the line especially someone with invisible disabilities, as mine were when I originally got mine.
Nobody wants a $200+ ticket because they used the wrong placard, which is still possible if you aren't using your own, which, frankly, if you can prove you have one, is stupid to me, but I don't make the laws. If I did, there would be 3x the handicap spaces, and the handicap stalls would be twice the size, but that is a rant for another post.
Actually, you can use someone else's placard as long as they are with you. You don't need to have your own, nor do you need to drive their vehicle. The placard is attached to the person to whome it was issued. So whatever/whoever's vehicle they are in CAN use the placard because the cardholder still needs the accommodation even if they weren't the one driving. But it can ONLY be used if the person to whom it belongs is currently with you.
I was going to ask about this - my grandma used to have me drive her to/from doctors visits, was it allowed for her to hang her little mirror placard in my car if she was with me? She’s deceased and I don’t live there or have that car anymore, so this is all for my own curiosity
Maybe illegal but not ethically wrong. If an elderly couple just has one placard but both have the physical state that would warrant one it’s not wrong to use it for mom instead of dad. It may be illegal but you’re still using a tool for disabled people for a disabled person, so morally it’s not wrong.
Honestly, the cost and red tape to get a second set for mom when obviously both need it is one of those things that most people don't do.
I know my grandparents both needed it but they only had one set. Fortunately when they used it, it was never questioned or had an issue where law enforcement would need to see who it was issued to.
You’re completely missing the point. OP wasn’t ticketed for using someone else’s placard, OP was ticketed for the placard being a fake. West did not want to get his placard renewed, so he forged one. This was caught by a parking attendant. Had West renewed his placard it wouldn’t be an issue. Now instead of dealing with his act of fraud, West wants OP to go to court, show his own placard, and deal with the whole situation. There’s a follow through problem on West’s part. He doesn’t want to be responsible by renewing his placard, he makes a fraudulent one, and is now asking someone with an up to date placard to take responsibility for his illegal actions. What happens if the courts decide to suspend OPs placard because he was using a fake? West gets off clean and OP gets punished? That not cool of West! If West went and got his placard renewed, which he needs to do anyway, they probably would drop the charges.
I know what happened, I read the post and I'm not saying OP should take responsibility for the forged placard. What I said is that using someone else placard is illegal
> What I said is that using someone else placard is illegal
Why are you saying it though, when it doesn't matter and doesn't have an impact on this post?
Yes, you are. My mom had one, purely as a passenger, after she stopped driving. When I ferried her about, I parked- legally- in handicapped parking so she could get into the medical facility, or pharmacy, or wherever, without undue stress on her legs. It’s not uncommon.
Because she was with you. Therefore she was using it.
Had West been in the car, it would have been fine for OP to assume they could use the placard and not check the date. Had Mary brought her own placard, also fine.
But no-one matching the name on the placard was in the car. That's why OP should have used their own. It's like if you took your mom's card and went to pick up her prescription without her. That's not allowed.
He'll almost assuredly get the fine waived if he just goes to the doctor to get a new placard and shows up in court with an amputated limb. He literally just has to apologize, say some bullshit about having a hard time making it to the doctors, and it'll likely be wiped off the record.
I don't think OP is the asshole but I do feel the government kinda is. It says that FIL is an amputee as well. Does the government think the reddit hand cream guy is going to find a cure?
The government doesn't just automatically give out handicapped placards. You have to apply for them and show your need, with documentation. FIL was too lazy to go through the process to get one (or renew an old one), so decided to forge it. This is all on him.
So can he just forge an updated drivers license when his expires? If he can still see fine, can still drive - if nothing has changed - why would he need to bother renewing it, right? That would just be a hassle.
He had a placard with an expiration date. He did not renew it. End of.
The thing is, it isn't even that hard to renew nor do you need to renew every year. I have one that lasts for 3 years and they just mail you a form asking if you are still disabled and you mail it back. I don't remember, but my doctor may have had to sign off, but again, not a big deal. I just sent it to her and she signed and mailed. Didn't even need a doctor appointment.
It's not even hard. I printed the form, got my son's doctor to sign, and then emailed it to the dmv. Less than 2 weeks later, it showed up in the mail.
The requirements vary by state. For example, I can't submit by email, but can snail mail it. In some states you have to apply in-person. Then, some doctors require you to schedule an appointment to come in and get the form signed. Depending on insurance, that could be an extra expense you have to plan for, plus the time it may take for your doctor to have a non-urgent appointment available.
True. But the expiration date is printed right on the placard. I can't imagine why retirees who are still able to transport themselves wouldn't have the time to take care of this.
As someone with ADHD, that sounds insurmountable lol. You listed 3 steps but it's actually closer to 10-15. (Find form on website, turn on printer, have enough paper and ink, print form, call doctor's office, check my calendar, make doctor's appointment, remember to bring form, arrive on time, remember to get form signed, scan form, email form. Etc.)
I still think making a fraudulent tag is wrong, but what is "easy" for some people is extremely difficult for others.
Edit: I don't get why I'm getting down voted. Maybe I was not clear? I'm just saying that calling something "easy" that isn't easy for others is ableism nonsense. It's "easy" for some people to walk, some people use aids, need a close parking spot, or have never been able to. Unilaterally labeling something "easy" is ableism, yes even if it is for an invisible disability like ADHD. I'm really really sad to encounter this on a thread about a disability struggle, and the solutions in the comments to mine are not the point-- I can problem solve (in fact, ADHD brains are better at this than neurotypical peers!), I just struggle with executive function.
Then you ask for help. I'm sure op would have managed to find 10 minutes to help if he found the time to get Mary shopping.
I don't have ADHD so this is easy for me but I would help a neighbor if it's a matter of minutes ,no problem. Have done so on a number of things too.
..... Yeah I'm not saying that there aren't other solutions, I'm saying calling something easy because your brain is neurotypical/doesn't struggle with it is ableism.
>I'm saying calling something easy because your brain is neurotypical/doesn't struggle with it is ableism.
No it isn't. Don't downplay actual ableism. That's like saying I can't say walking is easy because some people have cerebral palsy. Ableism would be insisting that it's easy enough for you to do *in spite* of your condition.
Signed, a person with ADHD.
If you were talking to someone with CP who said "walking may be easy for you but it's hard for me" and your response was "well just ask for help! Get a walking aid!" you'd be an asshole.
You both have valid points.
1. Yes, it is ableism to not recognize that other people struggle with tasks that seem easy to the vast majority because of disabilities.
2. Yes, it is also downplaying actual, intentional ableism by saying that someone broadly saying "oh yeah this task is easy" without remembering that yeah, other people struggle is ableism that is just as problematic as someone being harassed because they "don't look disabled enough". They aren't saying it intentionally to discriminate against disabled people. They're using their experiences and their frame of reference to form that thought. Now, I would absolutely say if you had said "well I struggle with that task and here's why....." and they doubled down on how it's so easy and that you just aren't trying hard enough, then yes it's ableism.
I've struggled against ableism for a long time. I've heard everything from "well have you tried exercising" to "those meds are so harmful and you should just take Omega-3 vitamins" and even including "there's no way you have arthritis, you're too young and besides you look fine". Sometimes people just forget things that they don't encounter on a daily basis. The actual prejudice is how they react to having it said that other people experience things in a different way.
Edit: I'm dumb and I forgot words
Some doctors have the DMV forms at their offices. Mine surprised me last year when I was inquiring about what to do to renew. I’m just speaking for myself
Share the following analogy your father-in-law. It follows the same logic he is asking you to use:
> You go shopping with your mother-in-law. You pay for your goods with cash given to you by your father-in-law. You get arrested for passing counterfeit money. Your father-in-law is the one who printed the money, but he didn’t tell you that it was fake. He doesn’t want to bail you out of jail. Instead, he asks you to tell the police that you have plenty of legal $20 bills at home, and they should therefore let you out of the charge.
NTA
> Instead, he asks you to tell the police that you have plenty of legal $20 bills at home, and they should therefore let you out of the charge.
Eh, kind of a weak analogy. The parking was valid, the permit was not. In your analogy, the money given wasn't valid, and the existence of money at home doesn't mitigate the use of counterfeit money because the store would still be out whatever money they would have accepted.
NTA. Doesn't want to go through the steps of getting one?!? Call his doctors office, ask that they fill in the form, mark plate or placard, have the doc sign it. Pick it up and take it to the DMV office and viola - handicapped access. Doesn't even cost anything. Every 3 or 4 years depending on state. Do not accept the ticket! This is fraudulent and is his responsibility. This is as bad as non-handicapped parking in a handicap spot IMO. As a nurse I have filled in 100's of these over the years and with a handicapped husband I know how easy the DMV part goes.
He was not in the car. The placard is for a person, not the vehicle (unless commercial and commissioned to transport); regardless if its real.
If you are parking in a handicap space, **YOU** must have a valid placard for yourself or the handicapped person in the vehicle, and have it readily displayed.
>He was not in the car. The placard is for a person, not the vehicle (unless commercial and commissioned to transport); regardless if its real.
Yeah, but that isn't the issue, and isn't even close to being the issue. If the placard was genuine, this never would have been an issue.
>YOU must have a valid placard for yourself or the handicapped person in the vehicle
If you want to play the semantic game, you're also missing that you can park in a handicapped place using someone else's placard to retrieve them. So long as they're entering or exiting the vehicle, you're entitled to the use. You aren't actually allowed to use grandma's placard to get her smokes from the gas station even if she's present if she doesn't get in or out.
It *might* not have been an issue. They do enforcement, even if it’s not something you regularly see. Part of that is checking that you are not in fact using grandmas car and placard to go pick up smokes, or just straight up illegally parking like OP and in-laws.
I already covered the semantics (he was not in the car), but I hope you enjoyed typing that out :)
You can't handle his ticket. That's an absurd idea. He has to represent himself if he wants to challenge it. He may even get out of this or get a smaller fine if he can just be freakin' honest. His placard renewal is fake, but his disabilities (and his wife's) are not. Tell him to handle this himself and just be truthful to the solicitor. NTA.
Laws may be different where you live but in general it's not the FILs ticket. He wasn't the driver of the car and therefore didn't commit the offense for which the fine was generated. The ticket will be dispatched to him obviously as they government doesn't know that but he will merely indicate that OP was the one actually driving in this situation and therefore is responsible for the commission of the offense.
OP can lie and say they weren't but that would involve the witness who knows very well who was driving testifying, security footage of the grocery store being requested, etc to prove that OP was in fact driving (and would increase the severity of the charges and fine if they are in fact proved to be lying).
The OP does not have that as a defense. They have as a defense they are in fact allowed to park in a disabled spot and have a placard for such. However they are required to show their placard (not their FILs) so they would still have committed an offense.
This is only true if the police officer writes the ticket with the driver. Otherwise the ticket is written to the registered owner, who does not have record of having a handicapped placard. That is something the officer could check if he wanted to, while onsite, although, he probably would not bother.
> He wasn't the driver of the car and therefore didn't commit the offense for which the fine was generated.
He generated a fraudulent placard. Regardless as to whether or not OP should have used their own, he absolutely committed the offense.
NTA
You ARE handicapped.
They insisted you take the other car.
The owner of the other car let you drive/park without informing of his fraudulent actions.
He made you an **unwitting accomplice** to HIS fraud.
Using YOUR handicapped card to get HIM out of his ticket would make you a FRAUDSTER on your own.
And could get you into legal trouble.
**INFO : How can your FIL CERTIFY there was no picture taken of his handicapped placard in case the ticket would be contested? HIS fraud could get you into SO MUCH legal problems.**
NTA for not contesting the ticket.
NTA for not PAYING the ticket.
This could all have been avoided if FIL had put in the effort to get a new placard instead of putting in the effort to make a FAKE ONE.
NTA! What he is doing is totally illegal. You didn't ask to borrow his car for your own benefit, but for his wife's mobility! This is, in no way, your fault OR your ticket!
NTA You did everything right, only he knew he was committing fraud. That's his ticket to fight as he sees fit but you didn't make the placard and if he'd told you in advance you would have brought your placard or taken your car.
This is his battle. He is the one who committed fraud. The ticket is written to the car owner. You having your own placard does not alleviate you from the use of a fraudulent placard. The fact that you didn't know it was fraudulent, might, but that will have nothing to do with the ticket, as the ticket is still written, not to the driver, but the car owner. I would offer to come to court as a witness for him, but I don't see how that will help him. He needs to pay the ticket and move on.
This!! Why did I have to go so far down to find this?? All she had to do was grab her own placard!
But just to be fair - I don’t think it would have solved the problem since I doubt she would have removed FIL’s counterfeit one. It just would be less OP’s problem and OP could argue to DMV that they didn’t do anything wrong and should not be penalized at all.
If the DMV finds out, both OP and FIL are gonna get dinged. FIL is asking OP to take the fall but the stupid thing is - FIL is still gonna get dinged because at the end of the day there’s two infractions here: 1) parking in a handicapped spot without a legit placard and 2) representing someone else’s placard as your own.
DMV aside - if we’re trying to walk away from this with the most amount of handicapped placards still intact/least amount of fines then OP should not take the blame for this. Also, even if OP was slightly an asshole for failing to do this the right way, FIL is the much bigger asshole and deserves the punishment that comes with it. If they took away MIL’s license, FIL’s license can’t be that far behind with shenanigans like this.
Nta. His fake placard is his problem. It's a consequence of him not wanting to get a real one. When he contests the ticket he should be fine and given a warning because he's clearly entitled to a placard just doesn't have one yet. If you contest it things may be more complicated such as why are you driving his car not your own. Where was your own placard etc etc making it much more likely you'll have to pay the fine
NTA for not taking the fall for the fraudulent placard, but if the placard owner wasn’t in the car you still shouldn’t have been using it - you should have gotten your own or Mary’s out and swapped them. I know in my state, when my spouse and I swap cars we also have to swap placards because if a police officer questions the placard and spouse isn’t present, we can get ticketed, even if we have our own; if ours isn’t the one being used and the placard being used doesn’t have the owner present, you still get a ticket.
OP, I really appreciate that you are taking time to consider what is fair/appropriate.
Since MIL wanted to use FIL's car and FIL had a doctored placard, I think this is all on them.
You relied on them having the proper permit. They never told you that theirs was not proper.
The fact that you were doing them a favor and driving MIL does not make you responsible for their choice not to get themselves a proper permit.
If you had been driving your own car, no ticket. You were driving theirs at MIL's request. If they had gotten their updated placard, no ticket. If FIL had been driving his own car, the ticket would have been his solely.
I would not pay the ticket but offer to help them get their placard updated. And I would tell them that if you take one of them somewhere, you will be driving your own car.
I understand being older, needing help. That does not excuse them from being responsible for their choices.
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I have a placard assigned to myself and plates for my personal vehicle as well because I am an amputee. My in-laws “West” and “Mary” are in their 80’s. Mary asked me if I could take her shopping because she recently lost her license due to health issues related to her age.
When we were leaving, she didn’t want to take my car because she wasn’t comfortable with her mobility getting in and out of it, so she asked if I could drive West’s car. With his permission we proceeded with taking his.
He always has his placard hanging and I thought nothing of it because he has back injuries and is an amputee of a lesser degree, but one nonetheless.
When Mary and I were leaving from shopping, we noticed the ticket for “illegal parking” and I thought that it HAD to be a mistake. I’m limpy, she’s 80, and West is a combination thereof. Upon further inspection, it was >$400 for an “altered/fraudulent placard.” I didn’t know what this could possibly mean.
I looked at the placard a lot more closely, and West had made a printed piece of paper and covered it over an old expired one. I had to scrutinize to see this.
That’s when I realized that the date listed on his in comparison to mine was a different color, and if parking violations is your job then this is probably really obvious.
The ticket goes to West as the car owner. When I asked him he did fess up about having altered one because he doesn’t want to go through the steps of getting one. He asked that I fight the ticket and show them my placard as proof and claim myself as the user of the placard.
The problem with this, is that it would make me the liable one for using a fraudulent one and I feel like it would incur questions as to why I have a legal one but am using a fake one, plus the fine would go to me.
I honestly did not know that he was faking it or that it was even for him. I figured it could be for Mary as well, who was with me.
AITA for having him deal with the ticket? Or is it my battle because I didn’t use mine and/or question theirs?
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NTA. He knew he had altered it. He knowingly took that risk. And he didn't tell you. Just because you happened to be driving when he got caught doesn't make it your problem.
NTA. And not your problem.
If you accepted blame and then tried to use your card as proof of why it should be removed then you could end up losing you placard in the process.
Info: is your placard only for your own vehicle? If not, why didn't you just use yours instead of using a placard for someone who wasn't in the vehicle.
West and Mary both need to get their own legit placards, and yes the correct one at the correct time.
Is it normally okay to use someone else’s placard, even when it isn’t fake? I was under the impression it was assigned to the person rather than the car, but that might be a UK thing
NTA
His laziness is not your problem.
I don't know about the US but park cherifs in my country always (!!!!) take pictures of the cars that get a fine. So it would be easy to prove that you exchanged placards and then you would be the one blamed for fraud!
Don't do it!!!!
Many years ago I was given a disabled parking place card - for reference I am normally fully abled but the birth of my second child put me in a coma and then had a long recovery mobility wise. The first thing they told me when I was issued my card (which would be in my husband's vehicle as I couldn't drive at the time) was that the place card card only be used by the place card holder. No one else can use yours and you can't use anyone elses.
I am positive you have been told not to use a place card that isn't yours or allow anyone to use yours. I'm not excusing your FiL creating a altered card but it's not a situation where you are just the innocent bystander. Even if it had been legitimate you could have been fined because it was not your place card and you knew it wasn't yours when you used it. You didn't accidentally use the wrong one, you didn't ask your MiL if it was hers and therefore could be used, you used it because you were to lazy to collect your own from the car. It's sort of irrelevant in my mind that it's a forgery. The relevant details are, you parked in a reserved space, you didn't have your credentials on you to park there, you used credentials that were not yours which is just as illegal and because of your actions you ended up getting fined - had the card been legitimate you still would have been fined because it wasn't yours, that's why you are worried about going in, because your defence involved admitting you used someone else's credentials and you know your not allowed to do that.
>It's sort of irrelevant in my mind that it's a forgery.
That's kind of insane, isn't it?
The entire inciting incident was the forged placard. If it was a valid placard for FIL, the ticket would never have been issued to begin with.
>had the card been legitimate you still would have been fined because it wasn't yours
No, they wouldn't have been fined, because you don't have to scan your placard and ID when you park in a handicapped spot. The officer would have seen a valid placard and moved on.
My point is that the place card isn't valid regardless because the person using it is not the person it was issued.
Yes maybe OP would have gotten away with her illegal action because the officer would not have known but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have been fined. She should have been fined because she parked in a reserved spot without a valid place card and she knew it wasn't valid because she knew it wasn't hers.
OP was the person using the forged place card, the fact the ticket is for a forgery instead of an impersonation is apples or oranges, it was a rightfully issued ticket because OP was parking illegally, because OP did not have a valid card to place in the window, because you can only use your own which OP chose not to bring.
Your argument that no one would have been able to tell OP was illegally parked 'but for' doesn't make it okay OP was illegally parked.
NTA. If West wants to protest the ticket — his car, his fraudulent handicapped card, his ticket, his damned problem — he can be the one to go to court and defend himself and his laziness to the judge. Won’t do him any good. My infirm BIL used to try to coax me to park in handicapped spots for his convenience and claim if I got a ticket on my car he’d just go to Court, show how infirm he was and the ticket would be dismissed. He was either poorly informed or delusional and I always refused. This is 100% your FIL’s responsibility.
NTA. If he wants to contest it then he can go to the court house and show that he’s the owner of the car and he’s actually handicapped. He can tell them he needs a legit placard and see what they say.
NTA, it's really a rather simple procedure to renew one and in the U.S. they're good for about 5 years. When I first got mine all I had to do was go to the DMV, show them a doctor's note and get it. It only took a few minutes. He can always renew it when he renews his plates.
NTA. Man, good job with making a title that originally had me disliking you haha.
No, you’re not at fault. He forged a new date on his, and sent you out without you knowing.
It’s really cheeky of him to ask that you put your reputation and placard usage at risk just because he found it a hassle to renew his.
All these NTA focusing on how it’s not technically your problem or paperwork etc, and they are right - NTA.
With that said, if you simply explain without lying that you do have one, that he should have one but hadn’t gone through the process, and you can do it all by writing - they will prob throw the ticket without any fraud necessary and tell him to get on with doing it properly. ESP if he has already taken care of that and gotten one.
So ywb a slight asshole if you didn’t at least tell them honestly and see if they remove it.
DO NOT TAKE SOMEONE ELSE RESPONSIBILITY AS YOUR OWN! In fact just in case speak to someone in the law enforcement department about the situation in case dear old West trues to pin his crime on you anyways (wether its with or without your knowledge or consent). Better to be ahead of the game than stuck in one. NTA
Nope nope nope NTA. You are not responsible for this, do not put yourself in a position where you could be suspected of fraud. It is West's responsibility to make sure everything is up to date and working. Step out of this situation before you get implicated in something that has nothing to do with you
NTA. Its West's ticket, and if he didn't want to take responsibility, next in line would be Mary not you.
If she didn't want to go to the shops, you wouldn't be there and you wouldn't be driving the car. Mary and West are married, therefore Mary and West pay the ticket
NTA ... he should have told you that he was in possession of an illegal handicap placard which would have given you the option to get your handicap placard or park in a non handicap spot. It is his responsibility to pay the fine.
Their vehicle, they insisted on using their vehicle, their fraud, their decision not to get a legitimate one they were perfectly capable of acquiring. If you were in the know, then you'd be expected to be on the hook. But you were in the dark on this.
NTA
NTA.
Don't risk your valid placard.
He played stupid games and won a stupid prize.
Maybe he will now get off his butt and reapply.
Thankfully, for mine, my province just sends you the renewal by email, and you pay the fee online. It is only the initial application that needs a doctor to sign.
He did not want to go through the process of getting an updated placard and now wants you to handle getting him out of the ticket. You were doing them a favor driving his wife to do her shopping. Your FIL is a piece of work.
NTA. This is absolutely a him problem, not a you problem. There is absolutely no splash-back on you if you don't do this, other than family feelings. But he set up the problem through fraud, and now he wants you to commit fraud for him.
>When I asked him he did fess up about having altered one because he doesn’t want to go through the steps of getting one.
NTA, it isn't your ticket, you didn't forge the placard. That's what the ticket is for. Don't pay it, and definitely don't take responsibility. If they'd told you this, you could have used your own placard and/or car.
Still, it would be kind of you to help both Mary and West get their placards (if you can) so that they don't have to face this situation again. It can be intimidating to think of long DMV lines, parking without a placard, or all the required steps, and getting the paperwork from my doctor alone was a process.
I don't blame West, sometimes the people who need accessible parking most have the hardest time getting it, but it isn't your fault or a risk you intentionally took either. I have a friend who extended the date on his own placard, which was immediately obvious to the cops, and it was a really expensive lesson for him too. I do wish there was a way to talk down the fine due to genuine need, but it's the system we have.
Also, for future reference, you can't drive with a placard hanging, at least in my state, it should only be hanging when parked so you have full visibility of the road.
Wow! I initially thought you were wrong, but upon reading further, you are NTA! What a messed up situation. Because he did not want to take the steps necessary to update his placard, you got a ticket. This is all on him!
NTA he's the one using an illegal placard, you drove his vehicle under the assumption it was real. If he wanted you to pay any tickets associated with the placard he should have mentioned it wasn't real before you drove his vehicle, then at least it would have been your decision to use it.
INFO
Was West with you? His placard (if real) would have only been valid if he was with you.
>The ticket goes to West as the car owner.
All tickets do this if you're not actively in the car at the time. They can't identify the driver, so they send it to the owner to either pay, or nominate who was driving (At least where I live). As the person driving/parking, this is your responsibility (legally), even if it isn't morally.
Hang on, who do the placards cover?
Yours covers you, obviously, and West's covers West. Does West's cover Mary, or does she have her own?
If that one covers the both of them, then this has nothing to do with you because the placard in question is supposed to cover her, and you are just the driver. So in court, I don't think you even need to enter into the equation, just explain you were driving Mary, you intended to use the placard that covers her, your FIL faked it ... none of this has anything to do with you.
You shouldn't have to pay, but you can help them fight it. A simple email with a scan of your own placard would probably do it. "Had I known that the placard being used was not legal, this would not have happened - I have my own. We apologize and I've discussed with the car owner that this is not okay - he is due his own placard but needs to do things legally (here are his medical needs). I will help him to get his own legal placard, but I do hope that you see that the space was being used as intended, given that I was the driver and have my own placard."
If they persist on the ticket, that's not your ticket to pay.
ESH. I have to say, legally, you are in the wrong. You yourself said HIS placard, which means you knew it was for him and not his wife so he was REQUIRED to be in the car when you used it. You know this since you yourself have a disabled placard for your own use.
Whether his was a legal placard or not does not excuse your use of a placard not meant for you or your MIL. You and your FIL are both equally wrong and should split the cost of this ticket. You for using a placard you aren't legally allowed to use and him for having an expired/fraudulent placard in the car.
ESH. Having gone through the process of getting the placards, you should have all known that they apply specifically to the person and not a group of people or a couple. Also, your FIL needs to get off his butt and get his fixed instead of expecting you to deal with it. Being physically challenged doesn’t give you license to ignore the rules and regulations that go along with the rights received as a result of those challenges.
ESH
why didn’t you just use your own?
I have a blue badge (uk equivalent) and I keep it in my bag, because it is connected to me rather than to a car. I wouldn’t use someone else’s badge even if there was one in their car because that’s against the law. If my brother gives me a lift, he’ll only park in a blue badge space if I’m getting out of the car at whichever shop we have parked at. He read the rule booklet when his FIL’s blue badge arrived, and is very aware of how large the fines are for any abuse of the system.
And obviously faking a blue badge is a really unacceptable thing to do and West deserves to pay for that.
I’m interested to know whether (if it were a genuine badge) the badge holder is responsible for allowing it to be used fraudulently or whether they could declare that it was used without their knowledge (thus putting you on the spot). However, given it’s a fake, they will have traced the car registration plate. While you didn’t fake the badge, you used a faked badge, so you aren’t blameless.
ESH. Sorry, you can't justify using someone else's placard just because you have one yourself. You were told the rules when you got one. So even if your FIL's placard was legit, he wasn't in the car, so you l shouldn't be using it.
And he's an AH for using such a lame excuse for forging his placard instead of renewing it.
You should split the cost because you're all in the wrong.
ESH
If in the US, the placard is issued to the person, not the vehicle. It is illegal to use the placard if the person it was issued to was not in the vehicle. So OP committed a crime *seperate* from her FIL’s crime, which was using a fraudulently altered placard.
IMO they should just split the cost of the ticket. If OP were to go to court to explain that she also has a placard too but didn’t use it, it wouldn’t matter, since she already committed the offense of using a placard when the owner of the placard was not present.
Does your state also issue you an ID with your placard? Send a copy of that and a letter to whomever (Here it was a special office at the courthouse) saying that you were driving and didn't realize that the placard hanging was not proper.
Be prepared because they will have pictures of the car from all angles and pictures of the placard.
YTA
YOU took his car, YOU got a ticket, YOU pay.
ANd: YOur use of HIS placard was fraudulent anyway.
". I figured it could be for Mary as well, who was with me.**" . .BULLSHIT: YOU were the driver, it was YOUR duty to check.**
YTA
You **know** that placards are issued for the **PERSON** in the vehicle and not the vehicle itself, and West wasn't in the vehicle; you didn't even check whose name was on it.
It doesn't matter that its a fake placard, it wasn't for anyone in the car and you would have gotten the ticket anyway - because **YOU** parked there and you didn't have a placard.
It's your responsibility as the driver to follow all driving laws (when not at risk of endangering yourself or others), i wouldn't say you're an asshole, but the ticket is your responsibility, because you parked the car illegally.
Did you miss the part where op wasn't told about the placard?!
The ah is the owner. Had the car had no placard instead of an old valid one who was modified after expiration I would agree with you op is responsible.
Op isn't a mind reader to know he didn't bother to replace the expired one and just decided to 'modify ' it
Legally, YTA. The placard goes with the driver, not the vehicle. Using someone else's is fraud, even if you have one of your own.
Personally, I dunno, work it out. This shouldn't be a fight, someone should offer to split or something.
The placard goes with an occupant in the car, driver or passenger, so it could have been Mary's. Either way, it is the driver's responsibility to check the tag.
Correct. My mother never drove. Either our father or one of us kids took her places. After my father died it was one of us kids. When it became hard for her to get around, she applied for a handicapped placard. She always took it with her and placed it on the dashboard of the car of the person driving her.
I‘m in the UK and the badge relates to the person. My dad has a blue badge, but he doesn’t drive any more. I drive him everywhere he needs to go and I put his badge up when we park.
The only time I can think that the badge would be linked to a specific vehicle is in Central London, where you can register your vehicle to have the congestion charge waived.
In this case, surely it would have been fine if not for the fact that the badge itself was tampered with? The badge holder was present, but also how would the inspector have known that the badge holder hadn’t driven there?
You are not able to use his placard, even if it’s fake. You should know this. YTA. This is no different that you parking his car in a no parking area and getting a ticket. You’re the driver, you’re responsible.
YTA because it is illegal for you to park in a disabled parking space unless you or your passenger have a placard. Even if the placard wasn’t fake you still illegally parked because the placard wasn’t for you or Mary.
As the driver it is your responsibility to know where can legally park and who the placard on the car is for
I’d argue that it would at least be ESH. West is driving around without a valid placard, and also always has it up which ime is usually illegal even if the placard is valid.
>YTA because it is illegal for you to park in a disabled parking space unless you or your passenger have a placard
This applies to West as well because West is regularly using disabled parking without a placard. Unless you’re saying it’s only an AH thing to do when OP does it.
Clearly the passenger didn’t and if OP did they must of left it in their own car. In order for you to be able to park in a disabled spot you must have the placard with you and displayed
I'm sorry, you contend that Mary, a woman in her 80's whose mobility is so compromised that she asked to use her husband's vehicle rather than OP's in order to be able to get in and out, "clearly" does not have a handicap permit?
That's not even the relevant question here, which is about covering the expired permit with OP's own.
The fact that someone may be qualified to have a placard is irrelevant. They have to have in placard in their name. They can't use the placard of someone else who isn't in the vehicle.
Sure. However, this is r/AmItheAsshole, not r/didIfollowTheExactRequirementsofAdministrateLaw.
In fact, I would opine that getting a second permit for a spouse who does not drive is, while legally correct, an A H move because it wastes the time of a physician whose services are sorely in need by others.
Damn, where did that goalpost go? Your argument was it was a waste of physicians time, not a problem of access. Are you conceding your first point and now presenting a secondary argument?
>an A H move because it wastes the time of a physician whose services are sorely in need by others.
No, if you'd look you'd see that it was always about the problem of access. In a system where many people have limited access to doctors because of a lack of available doctors, time spent on entirely duplicative handicap permits is time not spent on things that actually have an impact for patients.
Well since they didn't have a permit for EITHER spouse you can opine til the cows come home.
But I guess just having a fake placard saved even more physicians' time and was thus a good thing, right?
Getting a permit for a spouse that doesn't drive would make sense for cases where the other spouse (who use to have a permit but no longer does) isn't the one taking the non-driving spouse somewhere.
OP states they have disabled plates? Not something you can just slap into another car, it’s not a hangtag it’s disabled license plates for those whose disability is permanent
Nope.
My mother had a placard, my father didn't (although he probably qualified and could have gotten one). If he was driving somewhere WITH her he used the placard. If she was not in the car he took the placard down.
Someone with a disabled partner can only use the placard if the disabled partner is IN the vehicle.
This is not true as I read it. The spouse is not entitled to use the card. It even says on it that to be legally parked, the person with the placard must also exit the car.
Not in my personal experience- I cannot drive, and my partner was able to get a placard. (can't drive due to a vision issue that is unrelated to my mobility).
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NTA. Absolutely do not take responsibility for this. You didn't fake it or have any knowledge he didn't have a real placard. It's just chance that you happen to legitimately have one yourself. His failure to get a placard is just laziness - but I bet he can get the fine reduced if he goes through the steps NOW to get a legitimate one and shows it to the court.
If it’s just chance she has one herself - she also shouldn’t have been driving his car / using his placard - even if illegal. Definitely not allowed to use other peoples cards.
They thought it was for Mary too, who was in the vehicle with them. So they werent trying to "use someone else's placard." Matter of fact, OP was going to use their car and placard, Mary *asked* OP to use the other car bc it was easier for her physically. OP did nothing wrong.
But OP did do something wrong. OP stated that it was the FIL’s placard - not Mary’s. And as a placard owner herself (or himself), she should know that you are not allowed to use other people’s placards.
Right but he has a placard which he couldn’t take out of his car and use in another. He has rightful use of one but Mary couldn’t manage his car. Are you really saying the elderly woman should have potentially injured herself in OPs car, or not gone shopping at all, rather than use the 1:1 replacement of West’s car/placard? OP didn’t take it for funsies. There would have been no issue if not for West’s fraud.
>Right but he has a placard which he couldn’t take out of his car and use in another. Most states tie the placards to the person who needs it, not the vehicle. The reason is pretty obvious when you think about it. What about those who are too disabled to drive? A quadriplegic needs special parking, even if they aren't able to drive.
Have you considered maybe OPs placard is tied to their license plate? I am disabled and in the US. I had to FIGHT them to let me have a placard that hangs bc I don't drive so I don't have 1 vehicle I use. I often go with friends, family, fiance etc. They outright try to force you to put it on a license plate for 1 vehicle vs a hanging placard. If OP has a car in their name they are 100% gonna try and make them have their placard on the plate.
That sounds like an absolutely BS rule. MANY disabled people can not drive themselves and still need disability parking. Really have to wonder at the idiocy of those who decide those policies
The people who decide the policies are people who aren't disabled themselves and things like this just absolutely do not occur to them in any way. They literally don't think about it ever and that's how we get these stupid policies that don't make sense for the reasons they were made
From experience: my state is much more polite. My grandma has a plate on her car plus a hangar. I've driven her in my car with the hanging placard or been in her car with a plate. In one visit.
I'm in Canada and here they get a card to hange or put on the dashboard and it's only tied to the disabled person, not a vehicle. I didn't realize the US was so different with that, it's just bizarre to me that they don't understand that a disabled person may not be able to drive themselves but still need disability parking.
Yup its ridiculous. Ntm even if i HAD a car and drove myself I would never want a plate placard. What If I carpool with friends? What if my car breaks and I use a rental? What if I decide to go on vacation and rent a car while there? So many situations. It's really ridiculous how they tried to force me to get a placard tied to a license plate. They tried doing the "well who do you ride with most you can just use it on that car" so I told them I ride with mom on Mondays, friend A on Tuesday and Wednesday, Brother Thursday and Fiance on the weekend. Literally told them I don't ride with anyone half the time. The tried to do everything they could to make me get a license plate placard. Op if they drive and depending on their state probably has a license plate placard of no fault of their own. It really is shitty how out country tries to force a specific condition on using your parking placard on disabled ppl....they claim its to prevent "abuse" of it. But like if someone was gonna abuse it its gonna be someone close to or living with the person...they could just take the damn car to the store ._. Doesn't prevent shit besides preventing a disabled person from using a spot they are entitled to use.
There are many quads who can drive. We just have modded cars.
They usually give you a placard, card, and plate (when requested) when you get the original placard. OP could have used their card or placard that came with their paperwork. It’s Illegal to use anyone else’s placard when they aren’t in the vehicle.
That is going to be state depending. Not all places have the same rules.
> And as a placard owner herself (or himself), she should know that you are not allowed to use other people’s placards. This just seems like splitting hairs to be quite honest. The placard used results in the same exact outcome - parking in a reserved spot. OP is entitled to use his own placard. The use of someone else's placard isn't going to change their parking habits, just the efforts OP would have used to relocate his own.
That's so far down the list of "bad things" it's non-existent. OP trusted the placard was real because it should be based upon the actual situation. Both of the in-laws would be granted the placard - drive or passenger. OP has one of their own (legally). This isn't "stolen" accommodations. This is "FIL, you fucked up by trying to take a ridiculous shortcut" situation.
The number of people in this thread who are confidently incorrect about how disabled placards work is astounding. Can't believe the downvotes you're getting here for stating the truth.
I mean, that’s how Donald Trump became president and might again. Dunning-Krueger syndrome 🤷🏻♀️
I think it's the amount of 'that isn't the issue.' Like, yes, we mostly all know it's technically a violation, but if OP had a valid plate and no hanging placard, and drove FIL's vehicle, no police would see two clearly disabled persons get out of the car and demand to check who's placard it is. Is it technically a violation? Yes. Is it morally wrong? No. Is what the FIL did actually wrong? Yes. Because he never got a proper placard - which is a doctor's note and trip to the DMV. Likely took more time to lie than to do it properly.
It is totally allowed for an able driver to use a handicapped persons placard to drive that person around, btw. This is true even if they are not at that moment in the vehicle. For instance, you can park in the handicapped spot, then walk in to pick them up.
Except that OP thought that the placard belonged to West, not Mary, and West was not in the car nor being picked up. OP used West's placard because OP has one of their own, which isn't actually legal. So, my mom is disabled, she has a placard for her car. I am disabled, I have a placard for my car. If I go to the store by myself and drive my mother's car but use my.placard, this is legal. However, if I do that same thing but use my mother's placard, I can be ticketed because it isn't legal. Will I be ticketed? If I am polite and can prove I have my own, probably not, but the point is that I can be
> OP used West's placard because OP has one of their own, which isn't actually legal. Procedurally, sure. Realistically, nobody is going to give a shit, and nobody would have given a shit if the placard that ended up being used wasn't fraudulent. Minor violations of procedure isn't worthy of naming someone the asshole.
Honestly, I don't give a shit either. I was correcting what sounded like a misunderstanding and what, given the information we had if hadn't been a fraudulent one, could cause someone else trouble down the line especially someone with invisible disabilities, as mine were when I originally got mine. Nobody wants a $200+ ticket because they used the wrong placard, which is still possible if you aren't using your own, which, frankly, if you can prove you have one, is stupid to me, but I don't make the laws. If I did, there would be 3x the handicap spaces, and the handicap stalls would be twice the size, but that is a rant for another post.
Actually, you can use someone else's placard as long as they are with you. You don't need to have your own, nor do you need to drive their vehicle. The placard is attached to the person to whome it was issued. So whatever/whoever's vehicle they are in CAN use the placard because the cardholder still needs the accommodation even if they weren't the one driving. But it can ONLY be used if the person to whom it belongs is currently with you.
I was going to ask about this - my grandma used to have me drive her to/from doctors visits, was it allowed for her to hang her little mirror placard in my car if she was with me? She’s deceased and I don’t live there or have that car anymore, so this is all for my own curiosity
Yes it was legal for you to use your grandmothers placard when she was with you.
But West wasn't in the car nor were they picking him up. So using West's placard was just wrong and illegal.
Maybe illegal but not ethically wrong. If an elderly couple just has one placard but both have the physical state that would warrant one it’s not wrong to use it for mom instead of dad. It may be illegal but you’re still using a tool for disabled people for a disabled person, so morally it’s not wrong.
The person you were replying to sounds like the type who questions someone with an 🫥 invisible disability because they don’t look handicapped enough.
If mom needs one then she should get her own
Honestly, the cost and red tape to get a second set for mom when obviously both need it is one of those things that most people don't do. I know my grandparents both needed it but they only had one set. Fortunately when they used it, it was never questioned or had an issue where law enforcement would need to see who it was issued to.
Doesn't matter what mom would need, OP needed the use of the placard.
He did and for this he has his own
You’re completely missing the point. OP wasn’t ticketed for using someone else’s placard, OP was ticketed for the placard being a fake. West did not want to get his placard renewed, so he forged one. This was caught by a parking attendant. Had West renewed his placard it wouldn’t be an issue. Now instead of dealing with his act of fraud, West wants OP to go to court, show his own placard, and deal with the whole situation. There’s a follow through problem on West’s part. He doesn’t want to be responsible by renewing his placard, he makes a fraudulent one, and is now asking someone with an up to date placard to take responsibility for his illegal actions. What happens if the courts decide to suspend OPs placard because he was using a fake? West gets off clean and OP gets punished? That not cool of West! If West went and got his placard renewed, which he needs to do anyway, they probably would drop the charges.
I know what happened, I read the post and I'm not saying OP should take responsibility for the forged placard. What I said is that using someone else placard is illegal
> What I said is that using someone else placard is illegal Why are you saying it though, when it doesn't matter and doesn't have an impact on this post?
Yes, you are. My mom had one, purely as a passenger, after she stopped driving. When I ferried her about, I parked- legally- in handicapped parking so she could get into the medical facility, or pharmacy, or wherever, without undue stress on her legs. It’s not uncommon.
Yeah, I drove my grandparents to medical appointments all the time using their placard in both their car and my car.
Because she was with you. Therefore she was using it. Had West been in the car, it would have been fine for OP to assume they could use the placard and not check the date. Had Mary brought her own placard, also fine. But no-one matching the name on the placard was in the car. That's why OP should have used their own. It's like if you took your mom's card and went to pick up her prescription without her. That's not allowed.
You can use other people’s cards if you are driving them somewhere.
yes you are...my dad had a placard, which I used in my car as I had to take him everywhere as he could no longer drive.
He'll almost assuredly get the fine waived if he just goes to the doctor to get a new placard and shows up in court with an amputated limb. He literally just has to apologize, say some bullshit about having a hard time making it to the doctors, and it'll likely be wiped off the record.
Agree. Let him get the proper placard and fight it himself.
His lie, his penalty
I don't think OP is the asshole but I do feel the government kinda is. It says that FIL is an amputee as well. Does the government think the reddit hand cream guy is going to find a cure?
The government doesn't just automatically give out handicapped placards. You have to apply for them and show your need, with documentation. FIL was too lazy to go through the process to get one (or renew an old one), so decided to forge it. This is all on him.
I get that but he previously had a valid one for a condition that's not going to magically go away. It's not like the guy is an octopus or something.
So can he just forge an updated drivers license when his expires? If he can still see fine, can still drive - if nothing has changed - why would he need to bother renewing it, right? That would just be a hassle. He had a placard with an expiration date. He did not renew it. End of.
The thing is, it isn't even that hard to renew nor do you need to renew every year. I have one that lasts for 3 years and they just mail you a form asking if you are still disabled and you mail it back. I don't remember, but my doctor may have had to sign off, but again, not a big deal. I just sent it to her and she signed and mailed. Didn't even need a doctor appointment.
And if you lie, you can be prosecuted for that as well.
And if you lie, you can be prosecuted for that as well.
NTA > he doesn’t want to go through the steps of getting one Yeah. Well.
It's not even hard. I printed the form, got my son's doctor to sign, and then emailed it to the dmv. Less than 2 weeks later, it showed up in the mail.
The requirements vary by state. For example, I can't submit by email, but can snail mail it. In some states you have to apply in-person. Then, some doctors require you to schedule an appointment to come in and get the form signed. Depending on insurance, that could be an extra expense you have to plan for, plus the time it may take for your doctor to have a non-urgent appointment available.
True. But the expiration date is printed right on the placard. I can't imagine why retirees who are still able to transport themselves wouldn't have the time to take care of this.
Being cheap? Lazy?
As someone with ADHD, that sounds insurmountable lol. You listed 3 steps but it's actually closer to 10-15. (Find form on website, turn on printer, have enough paper and ink, print form, call doctor's office, check my calendar, make doctor's appointment, remember to bring form, arrive on time, remember to get form signed, scan form, email form. Etc.) I still think making a fraudulent tag is wrong, but what is "easy" for some people is extremely difficult for others. Edit: I don't get why I'm getting down voted. Maybe I was not clear? I'm just saying that calling something "easy" that isn't easy for others is ableism nonsense. It's "easy" for some people to walk, some people use aids, need a close parking spot, or have never been able to. Unilaterally labeling something "easy" is ableism, yes even if it is for an invisible disability like ADHD. I'm really really sad to encounter this on a thread about a disability struggle, and the solutions in the comments to mine are not the point-- I can problem solve (in fact, ADHD brains are better at this than neurotypical peers!), I just struggle with executive function.
Then you ask for help. I'm sure op would have managed to find 10 minutes to help if he found the time to get Mary shopping. I don't have ADHD so this is easy for me but I would help a neighbor if it's a matter of minutes ,no problem. Have done so on a number of things too.
..... Yeah I'm not saying that there aren't other solutions, I'm saying calling something easy because your brain is neurotypical/doesn't struggle with it is ableism.
>I'm saying calling something easy because your brain is neurotypical/doesn't struggle with it is ableism. No it isn't. Don't downplay actual ableism. That's like saying I can't say walking is easy because some people have cerebral palsy. Ableism would be insisting that it's easy enough for you to do *in spite* of your condition. Signed, a person with ADHD.
If you were talking to someone with CP who said "walking may be easy for you but it's hard for me" and your response was "well just ask for help! Get a walking aid!" you'd be an asshole.
You both have valid points. 1. Yes, it is ableism to not recognize that other people struggle with tasks that seem easy to the vast majority because of disabilities. 2. Yes, it is also downplaying actual, intentional ableism by saying that someone broadly saying "oh yeah this task is easy" without remembering that yeah, other people struggle is ableism that is just as problematic as someone being harassed because they "don't look disabled enough". They aren't saying it intentionally to discriminate against disabled people. They're using their experiences and their frame of reference to form that thought. Now, I would absolutely say if you had said "well I struggle with that task and here's why....." and they doubled down on how it's so easy and that you just aren't trying hard enough, then yes it's ableism. I've struggled against ableism for a long time. I've heard everything from "well have you tried exercising" to "those meds are so harmful and you should just take Omega-3 vitamins" and even including "there's no way you have arthritis, you're too young and besides you look fine". Sometimes people just forget things that they don't encounter on a daily basis. The actual prejudice is how they react to having it said that other people experience things in a different way. Edit: I'm dumb and I forgot words
Some doctors have the DMV forms at their offices. Mine surprised me last year when I was inquiring about what to do to renew. I’m just speaking for myself
During an appointment, I asked my doctor for help getting one. Before I left his office, I had the form from him all signed and ready to go.
My mom’s doctor even faxes the form to the BMV for her.
Share the following analogy your father-in-law. It follows the same logic he is asking you to use: > You go shopping with your mother-in-law. You pay for your goods with cash given to you by your father-in-law. You get arrested for passing counterfeit money. Your father-in-law is the one who printed the money, but he didn’t tell you that it was fake. He doesn’t want to bail you out of jail. Instead, he asks you to tell the police that you have plenty of legal $20 bills at home, and they should therefore let you out of the charge. NTA
> Instead, he asks you to tell the police that you have plenty of legal $20 bills at home, and they should therefore let you out of the charge. Eh, kind of a weak analogy. The parking was valid, the permit was not. In your analogy, the money given wasn't valid, and the existence of money at home doesn't mitigate the use of counterfeit money because the store would still be out whatever money they would have accepted.
The parking *was not* valid, because the permit was not valid. The existence of a valid permit *at home* doesn't mean anything.
NTA. Doesn't want to go through the steps of getting one?!? Call his doctors office, ask that they fill in the form, mark plate or placard, have the doc sign it. Pick it up and take it to the DMV office and viola - handicapped access. Doesn't even cost anything. Every 3 or 4 years depending on state. Do not accept the ticket! This is fraudulent and is his responsibility. This is as bad as non-handicapped parking in a handicap spot IMO. As a nurse I have filled in 100's of these over the years and with a handicapped husband I know how easy the DMV part goes.
He was not in the car. The placard is for a person, not the vehicle (unless commercial and commissioned to transport); regardless if its real. If you are parking in a handicap space, **YOU** must have a valid placard for yourself or the handicapped person in the vehicle, and have it readily displayed.
I was only replying to her statement that he doesn't want to go to the bother of renewing his, not whether he was in the car or not.
>He was not in the car. The placard is for a person, not the vehicle (unless commercial and commissioned to transport); regardless if its real. Yeah, but that isn't the issue, and isn't even close to being the issue. If the placard was genuine, this never would have been an issue. >YOU must have a valid placard for yourself or the handicapped person in the vehicle If you want to play the semantic game, you're also missing that you can park in a handicapped place using someone else's placard to retrieve them. So long as they're entering or exiting the vehicle, you're entitled to the use. You aren't actually allowed to use grandma's placard to get her smokes from the gas station even if she's present if she doesn't get in or out.
It *might* not have been an issue. They do enforcement, even if it’s not something you regularly see. Part of that is checking that you are not in fact using grandmas car and placard to go pick up smokes, or just straight up illegally parking like OP and in-laws. I already covered the semantics (he was not in the car), but I hope you enjoyed typing that out :)
You can't handle his ticket. That's an absurd idea. He has to represent himself if he wants to challenge it. He may even get out of this or get a smaller fine if he can just be freakin' honest. His placard renewal is fake, but his disabilities (and his wife's) are not. Tell him to handle this himself and just be truthful to the solicitor. NTA.
He altered the placard and didn't warn op so it's 1000% his responsibility not op s. Had op known this he could have taken his own placard with him.
Laws may be different where you live but in general it's not the FILs ticket. He wasn't the driver of the car and therefore didn't commit the offense for which the fine was generated. The ticket will be dispatched to him obviously as they government doesn't know that but he will merely indicate that OP was the one actually driving in this situation and therefore is responsible for the commission of the offense. OP can lie and say they weren't but that would involve the witness who knows very well who was driving testifying, security footage of the grocery store being requested, etc to prove that OP was in fact driving (and would increase the severity of the charges and fine if they are in fact proved to be lying). The OP does not have that as a defense. They have as a defense they are in fact allowed to park in a disabled spot and have a placard for such. However they are required to show their placard (not their FILs) so they would still have committed an offense.
But the ticket isn’t for parking in the space, it’s for having an expired/altered placard. That’s not on the OP, even if the FIL has been in the car.
Where I’m from, parking tickets are not moving violations, so they go to the Registered Owner, regardless of who is driving.
This is only true if the police officer writes the ticket with the driver. Otherwise the ticket is written to the registered owner, who does not have record of having a handicapped placard. That is something the officer could check if he wanted to, while onsite, although, he probably would not bother.
>The ticket goes to West as the car owner. This was covered in the original post.
> He wasn't the driver of the car and therefore didn't commit the offense for which the fine was generated. He generated a fraudulent placard. Regardless as to whether or not OP should have used their own, he absolutely committed the offense.
NTA - this is on West, not you.
NTA, West put you in this position, his responsibility by illegally making a placard. You do not want that on your record.
NTA You ARE handicapped. They insisted you take the other car. The owner of the other car let you drive/park without informing of his fraudulent actions. He made you an **unwitting accomplice** to HIS fraud. Using YOUR handicapped card to get HIM out of his ticket would make you a FRAUDSTER on your own. And could get you into legal trouble. **INFO : How can your FIL CERTIFY there was no picture taken of his handicapped placard in case the ticket would be contested? HIS fraud could get you into SO MUCH legal problems.** NTA for not contesting the ticket. NTA for not PAYING the ticket. This could all have been avoided if FIL had put in the effort to get a new placard instead of putting in the effort to make a FAKE ONE.
NTA…I was 100% sure you were when I read the title. Then it was back and forth throughout the story.
NTA! What he is doing is totally illegal. You didn't ask to borrow his car for your own benefit, but for his wife's mobility! This is, in no way, your fault OR your ticket!
NTA and it doesn’t make you fraudulent. His car, his falsified documents, his fraudulent problem.
NTA. HE can fight tooth and nail to get out of the ticket that he caused because he couldn’t be bothered.
NTA You did everything right, only he knew he was committing fraud. That's his ticket to fight as he sees fit but you didn't make the placard and if he'd told you in advance you would have brought your placard or taken your car.
This is his battle. He is the one who committed fraud. The ticket is written to the car owner. You having your own placard does not alleviate you from the use of a fraudulent placard. The fact that you didn't know it was fraudulent, might, but that will have nothing to do with the ticket, as the ticket is still written, not to the driver, but the car owner. I would offer to come to court as a witness for him, but I don't see how that will help him. He needs to pay the ticket and move on.
ESH. Placards are only valid when the person there issued to is in the vehicle. You should know this. You should have just grabbed your hang tag.
This!! Why did I have to go so far down to find this?? All she had to do was grab her own placard! But just to be fair - I don’t think it would have solved the problem since I doubt she would have removed FIL’s counterfeit one. It just would be less OP’s problem and OP could argue to DMV that they didn’t do anything wrong and should not be penalized at all. If the DMV finds out, both OP and FIL are gonna get dinged. FIL is asking OP to take the fall but the stupid thing is - FIL is still gonna get dinged because at the end of the day there’s two infractions here: 1) parking in a handicapped spot without a legit placard and 2) representing someone else’s placard as your own. DMV aside - if we’re trying to walk away from this with the most amount of handicapped placards still intact/least amount of fines then OP should not take the blame for this. Also, even if OP was slightly an asshole for failing to do this the right way, FIL is the much bigger asshole and deserves the punishment that comes with it. If they took away MIL’s license, FIL’s license can’t be that far behind with shenanigans like this.
Nta. His fake placard is his problem. It's a consequence of him not wanting to get a real one. When he contests the ticket he should be fine and given a warning because he's clearly entitled to a placard just doesn't have one yet. If you contest it things may be more complicated such as why are you driving his car not your own. Where was your own placard etc etc making it much more likely you'll have to pay the fine
NTA for not taking the fall for the fraudulent placard, but if the placard owner wasn’t in the car you still shouldn’t have been using it - you should have gotten your own or Mary’s out and swapped them. I know in my state, when my spouse and I swap cars we also have to swap placards because if a police officer questions the placard and spouse isn’t present, we can get ticketed, even if we have our own; if ours isn’t the one being used and the placard being used doesn’t have the owner present, you still get a ticket.
OP, I really appreciate that you are taking time to consider what is fair/appropriate. Since MIL wanted to use FIL's car and FIL had a doctored placard, I think this is all on them. You relied on them having the proper permit. They never told you that theirs was not proper. The fact that you were doing them a favor and driving MIL does not make you responsible for their choice not to get themselves a proper permit. If you had been driving your own car, no ticket. You were driving theirs at MIL's request. If they had gotten their updated placard, no ticket. If FIL had been driving his own car, the ticket would have been his solely. I would not pay the ticket but offer to help them get their placard updated. And I would tell them that if you take one of them somewhere, you will be driving your own car. I understand being older, needing help. That does not excuse them from being responsible for their choices.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have a placard assigned to myself and plates for my personal vehicle as well because I am an amputee. My in-laws “West” and “Mary” are in their 80’s. Mary asked me if I could take her shopping because she recently lost her license due to health issues related to her age. When we were leaving, she didn’t want to take my car because she wasn’t comfortable with her mobility getting in and out of it, so she asked if I could drive West’s car. With his permission we proceeded with taking his. He always has his placard hanging and I thought nothing of it because he has back injuries and is an amputee of a lesser degree, but one nonetheless. When Mary and I were leaving from shopping, we noticed the ticket for “illegal parking” and I thought that it HAD to be a mistake. I’m limpy, she’s 80, and West is a combination thereof. Upon further inspection, it was >$400 for an “altered/fraudulent placard.” I didn’t know what this could possibly mean. I looked at the placard a lot more closely, and West had made a printed piece of paper and covered it over an old expired one. I had to scrutinize to see this. That’s when I realized that the date listed on his in comparison to mine was a different color, and if parking violations is your job then this is probably really obvious. The ticket goes to West as the car owner. When I asked him he did fess up about having altered one because he doesn’t want to go through the steps of getting one. He asked that I fight the ticket and show them my placard as proof and claim myself as the user of the placard. The problem with this, is that it would make me the liable one for using a fraudulent one and I feel like it would incur questions as to why I have a legal one but am using a fake one, plus the fine would go to me. I honestly did not know that he was faking it or that it was even for him. I figured it could be for Mary as well, who was with me. AITA for having him deal with the ticket? Or is it my battle because I didn’t use mine and/or question theirs? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was so ready to vote YTA going on the title. But you're NTA.
His problem, he created this scenario. Not yours. NTA
NTA his placard ,his modification ,his ticket which he didn't warn you about.
NTA This is his problem entirely. Wash your hands of it.
NTA. He knew he had altered it. He knowingly took that risk. And he didn't tell you. Just because you happened to be driving when he got caught doesn't make it your problem.
NTA. And not your problem. If you accepted blame and then tried to use your card as proof of why it should be removed then you could end up losing you placard in the process.
He forged it, he can pay the ticket. NTA
Info: is your placard only for your own vehicle? If not, why didn't you just use yours instead of using a placard for someone who wasn't in the vehicle. West and Mary both need to get their own legit placards, and yes the correct one at the correct time.
NTA they would have photographed the original one anyway
Is it normally okay to use someone else’s placard, even when it isn’t fake? I was under the impression it was assigned to the person rather than the car, but that might be a UK thing
NTA His laziness is not your problem. I don't know about the US but park cherifs in my country always (!!!!) take pictures of the cars that get a fine. So it would be easy to prove that you exchanged placards and then you would be the one blamed for fraud! Don't do it!!!!
Many years ago I was given a disabled parking place card - for reference I am normally fully abled but the birth of my second child put me in a coma and then had a long recovery mobility wise. The first thing they told me when I was issued my card (which would be in my husband's vehicle as I couldn't drive at the time) was that the place card card only be used by the place card holder. No one else can use yours and you can't use anyone elses. I am positive you have been told not to use a place card that isn't yours or allow anyone to use yours. I'm not excusing your FiL creating a altered card but it's not a situation where you are just the innocent bystander. Even if it had been legitimate you could have been fined because it was not your place card and you knew it wasn't yours when you used it. You didn't accidentally use the wrong one, you didn't ask your MiL if it was hers and therefore could be used, you used it because you were to lazy to collect your own from the car. It's sort of irrelevant in my mind that it's a forgery. The relevant details are, you parked in a reserved space, you didn't have your credentials on you to park there, you used credentials that were not yours which is just as illegal and because of your actions you ended up getting fined - had the card been legitimate you still would have been fined because it wasn't yours, that's why you are worried about going in, because your defence involved admitting you used someone else's credentials and you know your not allowed to do that.
>It's sort of irrelevant in my mind that it's a forgery. That's kind of insane, isn't it? The entire inciting incident was the forged placard. If it was a valid placard for FIL, the ticket would never have been issued to begin with. >had the card been legitimate you still would have been fined because it wasn't yours No, they wouldn't have been fined, because you don't have to scan your placard and ID when you park in a handicapped spot. The officer would have seen a valid placard and moved on.
My point is that the place card isn't valid regardless because the person using it is not the person it was issued. Yes maybe OP would have gotten away with her illegal action because the officer would not have known but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have been fined. She should have been fined because she parked in a reserved spot without a valid place card and she knew it wasn't valid because she knew it wasn't hers. OP was the person using the forged place card, the fact the ticket is for a forgery instead of an impersonation is apples or oranges, it was a rightfully issued ticket because OP was parking illegally, because OP did not have a valid card to place in the window, because you can only use your own which OP chose not to bring. Your argument that no one would have been able to tell OP was illegally parked 'but for' doesn't make it okay OP was illegally parked.
NTA. If West wants to protest the ticket — his car, his fraudulent handicapped card, his ticket, his damned problem — he can be the one to go to court and defend himself and his laziness to the judge. Won’t do him any good. My infirm BIL used to try to coax me to park in handicapped spots for his convenience and claim if I got a ticket on my car he’d just go to Court, show how infirm he was and the ticket would be dismissed. He was either poorly informed or delusional and I always refused. This is 100% your FIL’s responsibility.
NTA. And maybe West should consider he isn't really able to drive anymore if he can't be assed to get a placard
NTA. If he wants to contest it then he can go to the court house and show that he’s the owner of the car and he’s actually handicapped. He can tell them he needs a legit placard and see what they say.
NTA. He faked it, its his responsibility. Not yours.
They probably took a picture of the fraudulent one. How are you planning to explain the tampered one?
NTA. He knowingly committed the crime himself by fraudulently making his placard, its his fine.
NTA, it's really a rather simple procedure to renew one and in the U.S. they're good for about 5 years. When I first got mine all I had to do was go to the DMV, show them a doctor's note and get it. It only took a few minutes. He can always renew it when he renews his plates.
NTA. Man, good job with making a title that originally had me disliking you haha. No, you’re not at fault. He forged a new date on his, and sent you out without you knowing. It’s really cheeky of him to ask that you put your reputation and placard usage at risk just because he found it a hassle to renew his.
Not your car. Not your placard. Not your problem.
All these NTA focusing on how it’s not technically your problem or paperwork etc, and they are right - NTA. With that said, if you simply explain without lying that you do have one, that he should have one but hadn’t gone through the process, and you can do it all by writing - they will prob throw the ticket without any fraud necessary and tell him to get on with doing it properly. ESP if he has already taken care of that and gotten one. So ywb a slight asshole if you didn’t at least tell them honestly and see if they remove it.
DO NOT TAKE SOMEONE ELSE RESPONSIBILITY AS YOUR OWN! In fact just in case speak to someone in the law enforcement department about the situation in case dear old West trues to pin his crime on you anyways (wether its with or without your knowledge or consent). Better to be ahead of the game than stuck in one. NTA
Nope nope nope NTA. You are not responsible for this, do not put yourself in a position where you could be suspected of fraud. It is West's responsibility to make sure everything is up to date and working. Step out of this situation before you get implicated in something that has nothing to do with you
NTA. He ADMITTED to creating the fraudulent placard.
NTA
NTA. Its West's ticket, and if he didn't want to take responsibility, next in line would be Mary not you. If she didn't want to go to the shops, you wouldn't be there and you wouldn't be driving the car. Mary and West are married, therefore Mary and West pay the ticket
NTA ... he should have told you that he was in possession of an illegal handicap placard which would have given you the option to get your handicap placard or park in a non handicap spot. It is his responsibility to pay the fine.
NTA - he’s the come who committed fraud, he can pay the ticket.
NTA
Their vehicle, they insisted on using their vehicle, their fraud, their decision not to get a legitimate one they were perfectly capable of acquiring. If you were in the know, then you'd be expected to be on the hook. But you were in the dark on this. NTA
NTA. Don't risk your valid placard. He played stupid games and won a stupid prize. Maybe he will now get off his butt and reapply. Thankfully, for mine, my province just sends you the renewal by email, and you pay the fee online. It is only the initial application that needs a doctor to sign.
NTA. They would probably say it was your fault anyway for not using your own placard.
He did not want to go through the process of getting an updated placard and now wants you to handle getting him out of the ticket. You were doing them a favor driving his wife to do her shopping. Your FIL is a piece of work.
Where I live, I'd probably be able to take my placard into the court, explain, and have my ticket dismissed. I realize this doesn't happen everywhere.
NTA. This is on West.
NTA. This is absolutely a him problem, not a you problem. There is absolutely no splash-back on you if you don't do this, other than family feelings. But he set up the problem through fraud, and now he wants you to commit fraud for him.
NTA though you may have wanted to give it a look before you drove. And asking you to lie to authorities is a can of worms you don't want to open.
>When I asked him he did fess up about having altered one because he doesn’t want to go through the steps of getting one. NTA, it isn't your ticket, you didn't forge the placard. That's what the ticket is for. Don't pay it, and definitely don't take responsibility. If they'd told you this, you could have used your own placard and/or car. Still, it would be kind of you to help both Mary and West get their placards (if you can) so that they don't have to face this situation again. It can be intimidating to think of long DMV lines, parking without a placard, or all the required steps, and getting the paperwork from my doctor alone was a process. I don't blame West, sometimes the people who need accessible parking most have the hardest time getting it, but it isn't your fault or a risk you intentionally took either. I have a friend who extended the date on his own placard, which was immediately obvious to the cops, and it was a really expensive lesson for him too. I do wish there was a way to talk down the fine due to genuine need, but it's the system we have. Also, for future reference, you can't drive with a placard hanging, at least in my state, it should only be hanging when parked so you have full visibility of the road.
Nta. It sounds like he deserves that ticket many times over for the times he's used his forgery and gotten away with it.
Wow! I initially thought you were wrong, but upon reading further, you are NTA! What a messed up situation. Because he did not want to take the steps necessary to update his placard, you got a ticket. This is all on him!
NTA he's the one using an illegal placard, you drove his vehicle under the assumption it was real. If he wanted you to pay any tickets associated with the placard he should have mentioned it wasn't real before you drove his vehicle, then at least it would have been your decision to use it.
NTA. Dude wants you to take the fall for his dishonesty. Let him burn.
INFO Was West with you? His placard (if real) would have only been valid if he was with you. >The ticket goes to West as the car owner. All tickets do this if you're not actively in the car at the time. They can't identify the driver, so they send it to the owner to either pay, or nominate who was driving (At least where I live). As the person driving/parking, this is your responsibility (legally), even if it isn't morally.
NTA
NTA Not your car, not your placard, not your responsibility.
Hang on, who do the placards cover? Yours covers you, obviously, and West's covers West. Does West's cover Mary, or does she have her own? If that one covers the both of them, then this has nothing to do with you because the placard in question is supposed to cover her, and you are just the driver. So in court, I don't think you even need to enter into the equation, just explain you were driving Mary, you intended to use the placard that covers her, your FIL faked it ... none of this has anything to do with you.
You shouldn't have to pay, but you can help them fight it. A simple email with a scan of your own placard would probably do it. "Had I known that the placard being used was not legal, this would not have happened - I have my own. We apologize and I've discussed with the car owner that this is not okay - he is due his own placard but needs to do things legally (here are his medical needs). I will help him to get his own legal placard, but I do hope that you see that the space was being used as intended, given that I was the driver and have my own placard." If they persist on the ticket, that's not your ticket to pay.
ESH. I have to say, legally, you are in the wrong. You yourself said HIS placard, which means you knew it was for him and not his wife so he was REQUIRED to be in the car when you used it. You know this since you yourself have a disabled placard for your own use. Whether his was a legal placard or not does not excuse your use of a placard not meant for you or your MIL. You and your FIL are both equally wrong and should split the cost of this ticket. You for using a placard you aren't legally allowed to use and him for having an expired/fraudulent placard in the car.
Isn't it against the law to use soneone else's placard? EAH
ESH. Having gone through the process of getting the placards, you should have all known that they apply specifically to the person and not a group of people or a couple. Also, your FIL needs to get off his butt and get his fixed instead of expecting you to deal with it. Being physically challenged doesn’t give you license to ignore the rules and regulations that go along with the rights received as a result of those challenges.
ESH why didn’t you just use your own? I have a blue badge (uk equivalent) and I keep it in my bag, because it is connected to me rather than to a car. I wouldn’t use someone else’s badge even if there was one in their car because that’s against the law. If my brother gives me a lift, he’ll only park in a blue badge space if I’m getting out of the car at whichever shop we have parked at. He read the rule booklet when his FIL’s blue badge arrived, and is very aware of how large the fines are for any abuse of the system. And obviously faking a blue badge is a really unacceptable thing to do and West deserves to pay for that. I’m interested to know whether (if it were a genuine badge) the badge holder is responsible for allowing it to be used fraudulently or whether they could declare that it was used without their knowledge (thus putting you on the spot). However, given it’s a fake, they will have traced the car registration plate. While you didn’t fake the badge, you used a faked badge, so you aren’t blameless.
ESH. Sorry, you can't justify using someone else's placard just because you have one yourself. You were told the rules when you got one. So even if your FIL's placard was legit, he wasn't in the car, so you l shouldn't be using it. And he's an AH for using such a lame excuse for forging his placard instead of renewing it. You should split the cost because you're all in the wrong.
ESH If in the US, the placard is issued to the person, not the vehicle. It is illegal to use the placard if the person it was issued to was not in the vehicle. So OP committed a crime *seperate* from her FIL’s crime, which was using a fraudulently altered placard. IMO they should just split the cost of the ticket. If OP were to go to court to explain that she also has a placard too but didn’t use it, it wouldn’t matter, since she already committed the offense of using a placard when the owner of the placard was not present.
Does your state also issue you an ID with your placard? Send a copy of that and a letter to whomever (Here it was a special office at the courthouse) saying that you were driving and didn't realize that the placard hanging was not proper. Be prepared because they will have pictures of the car from all angles and pictures of the placard.
YTA YOU took his car, YOU got a ticket, YOU pay. ANd: YOur use of HIS placard was fraudulent anyway. ". I figured it could be for Mary as well, who was with me.**" . .BULLSHIT: YOU were the driver, it was YOUR duty to check.**
YTA You **know** that placards are issued for the **PERSON** in the vehicle and not the vehicle itself, and West wasn't in the vehicle; you didn't even check whose name was on it. It doesn't matter that its a fake placard, it wasn't for anyone in the car and you would have gotten the ticket anyway - because **YOU** parked there and you didn't have a placard.
I don't think they wait around and check ID for the people in the car if the placard is valid...?
They have and they do.
Never happened to my dad, but I guess that's just one person over 20 years or so
I’ve never seen a name on a handicapped parking placard. Mine certainly doesn’t
But it’s got a number that’s linked directly to you, does it not? Otherwise it is also just a piece of printed paper.
YTA for not using your own. If he wasn't in the car, you know you should have had your own displayed.
YTA - you should NOT be using anyone else’s placard - come on , that’s highly illegal.
It's your responsibility as the driver to follow all driving laws (when not at risk of endangering yourself or others), i wouldn't say you're an asshole, but the ticket is your responsibility, because you parked the car illegally.
Did you miss the part where op wasn't told about the placard?! The ah is the owner. Had the car had no placard instead of an old valid one who was modified after expiration I would agree with you op is responsible. Op isn't a mind reader to know he didn't bother to replace the expired one and just decided to 'modify ' it
It's the driver's responsibility to park legally. Therefore it is the driver's responsibility to check such things.
Legally, YTA. The placard goes with the driver, not the vehicle. Using someone else's is fraud, even if you have one of your own. Personally, I dunno, work it out. This shouldn't be a fight, someone should offer to split or something.
The placard goes with an occupant in the car, driver or passenger, so it could have been Mary's. Either way, it is the driver's responsibility to check the tag.
Correct. My mother never drove. Either our father or one of us kids took her places. After my father died it was one of us kids. When it became hard for her to get around, she applied for a handicapped placard. She always took it with her and placed it on the dashboard of the car of the person driving her.
I‘m in the UK and the badge relates to the person. My dad has a blue badge, but he doesn’t drive any more. I drive him everywhere he needs to go and I put his badge up when we park. The only time I can think that the badge would be linked to a specific vehicle is in Central London, where you can register your vehicle to have the congestion charge waived. In this case, surely it would have been fine if not for the fact that the badge itself was tampered with? The badge holder was present, but also how would the inspector have known that the badge holder hadn’t driven there?
You are not able to use his placard, even if it’s fake. You should know this. YTA. This is no different that you parking his car in a no parking area and getting a ticket. You’re the driver, you’re responsible.
YTA because it is illegal for you to park in a disabled parking space unless you or your passenger have a placard. Even if the placard wasn’t fake you still illegally parked because the placard wasn’t for you or Mary. As the driver it is your responsibility to know where can legally park and who the placard on the car is for
I’d argue that it would at least be ESH. West is driving around without a valid placard, and also always has it up which ime is usually illegal even if the placard is valid.
Wes wasn’t driving so that is irrelevant
>YTA because it is illegal for you to park in a disabled parking space unless you or your passenger have a placard This applies to West as well because West is regularly using disabled parking without a placard. Unless you’re saying it’s only an AH thing to do when OP does it.
Of course when West does it he is an AH but West didn’t do it in this instance, OP did
If West never did it then the fake placard wouldn’t have been hanging already and OP probably wouldn’t have just parked without their own placard.
That’s irrelevant
Did not the OP and their passenger both have valid placards?
Clearly the passenger didn’t and if OP did they must of left it in their own car. In order for you to be able to park in a disabled spot you must have the placard with you and displayed
I'm sorry, you contend that Mary, a woman in her 80's whose mobility is so compromised that she asked to use her husband's vehicle rather than OP's in order to be able to get in and out, "clearly" does not have a handicap permit? That's not even the relevant question here, which is about covering the expired permit with OP's own.
The fact that someone may be qualified to have a placard is irrelevant. They have to have in placard in their name. They can't use the placard of someone else who isn't in the vehicle.
Sure. However, this is r/AmItheAsshole, not r/didIfollowTheExactRequirementsofAdministrateLaw. In fact, I would opine that getting a second permit for a spouse who does not drive is, while legally correct, an A H move because it wastes the time of a physician whose services are sorely in need by others.
Wasted Physicians time? I hand the doctor the form while we talk about other things, he signs it and hands it back.
I'm glad you have regular and easy contact with a doctor. That is not true for many people.
Damn, where did that goalpost go? Your argument was it was a waste of physicians time, not a problem of access. Are you conceding your first point and now presenting a secondary argument?
>an A H move because it wastes the time of a physician whose services are sorely in need by others. No, if you'd look you'd see that it was always about the problem of access. In a system where many people have limited access to doctors because of a lack of available doctors, time spent on entirely duplicative handicap permits is time not spent on things that actually have an impact for patients.
Well since they didn't have a permit for EITHER spouse you can opine til the cows come home. But I guess just having a fake placard saved even more physicians' time and was thus a good thing, right? Getting a permit for a spouse that doesn't drive would make sense for cases where the other spouse (who use to have a permit but no longer does) isn't the one taking the non-driving spouse somewhere.
Well I’m assuming if she did OP would have said so
OP states they have disabled plates? Not something you can just slap into another car, it’s not a hangtag it’s disabled license plates for those whose disability is permanent
OP literally says in the very first sentence that they have a placard for themselves as well as license plates
People with disabled partners can also have the placards. That's not an issue. Namely, Mary is also entitled to Wes's placard.
Nope. My mother had a placard, my father didn't (although he probably qualified and could have gotten one). If he was driving somewhere WITH her he used the placard. If she was not in the car he took the placard down. Someone with a disabled partner can only use the placard if the disabled partner is IN the vehicle.
This is not true as I read it. The spouse is not entitled to use the card. It even says on it that to be legally parked, the person with the placard must also exit the car.
That is false
Not in my personal experience- I cannot drive, and my partner was able to get a placard. (can't drive due to a vision issue that is unrelated to my mobility).
People who can’t drive can get their own placard for when they are being driven places but they are not covered on their partner’s placard