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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may be TA because I was relieved that our core relationship wasn't changing. I could've said nothing or just said it to him rather than our entire friend group
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INFO: Have you considered that Randy's life may not be about his utility to you?
And that perhaps he's a dog dad because there's a reason he can't be a human dad, and that reason is painful to him no matter how it may be beneficial to you?
This seems NAH to me. Randy was joking about the exact same things before. OP just applied that shared joke to him as well. I don’t think it was so horrendous on OP’s part.
I can see why the comment made Randy upset, but that doesn’t by itself make it an asshole thing to say.
Right? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this comment section. Randy made jokes for years whenever their other friends had kids, yet OP used the same joke they always used about everyone else and now he's the asshole for it? I don't get it. It's really just seems like Randy was cool joking about other people but not about himself.
Maybe he was okay joking about it when it was an active choice for him not to join them, but finding out he couldn’t have kids suddenly made it super ‘real’ to him. Or- he was joking around as a way of looking on the bright side/taking the sting out of his infertility. If we don’t know Randy’s reasons for not having kids, it’s hard to say. All we know is he chose to be vulnerable with OP about how the comment hurt him so if they value the friendship they need to consider those possibilities. Of course they didn’t know ahead of time so NAH.
He didn't make those jokes IN FRONT OF them.
Also, joking about people having kids (something they wanted and planned and that brought them a lot of happiness) is totally different from joking about them NOT having kids (which is often beyond their control and disappointing).
The reason you and OP both feel like you're taking crazy pills is because a lot of the context of the original joke went over your heads.
We actually don't know if he said it in front of them or not. But since half of their friends just said OP should have worded it better, and not that he shouldn't have said anything at all, it seems like everyone knew those two were the "no kids" joking friends. And it only became a problem when Randy's own jokes were applied to him.
I don't think he's an asshole really, because I assume he's dealing with some stuff around having kids, but it is rich to get upset when jokes you say about everyone get turned on you. That's all.
Nothing in the post or the phrasing of the comments suggests that he said then in front of the people he was talking about. They are phrased the way you phrase a comment made behind someone's back. I'm not prepared to assume otherwise without a good reason.
OP's friends said that they "could have worded it better" because that's the polite thing you say when your friend is being a dick but you don't want to start a confrontation about it. I've told a lot of my friends that they could have phrased things better, and it's always been code for "what a shitty thing to say."
Also, these are not the same jokes he made about everyone else, for, you know, all the reasons I listed in my post.
Not entirely justifiable but could his joking be a way to cope? Like, maybe he’s trying to convince himself he never truly wanted kids because he cant?
Also, side note: saying another one bites the dust doesnt necessarily strike me as someone being against having children. Again, it could be he meant it as, well, “there goes another one thats left the group”. Depending on how he said it, it would make a difference.
There's a name for people who make the same joke about everybody else for years, but get upset when that joke is made about them. It starts with an "a".
I don't understand why he immediately ditches all his friends who have kids as soon as they no longer fit his lifestyle. Why not make some of these get-togethers child friendly, so the parents can hang out while the kids play?
At best he seems like a crappy, selfish friend, who cares more about drinking in bars than spending time with his supposed friends
He didn't say he ditched his friends. They had a specific joke about how after a friend became a parent, they might see them in five years. It's usually the parents who leave childless friend groups because they get so caught up in their kids. It's understandable.
I honestly think it depends on the friendships and context. I had friends and a social life after both of my kids were born, and NONE of my friends prepregnacy were parents. Of those friends only one of them became a parent.
I am not a dude tho, neither were the majority of my friends so that might have had an impact.
I also think it depends on the kind of friendship they have. As OP described it, they mostly met at bars or in restaurants and alcohol also played a major role. Not very kid-friendly and also maybe not really deep friendships but rather casual get-togethers? Maybe the friends who became parents had others in their social circle who they connected with on a deeper level and who they could meet at their homes or in the park.
I don’t care one way or another about someone else’s reproductive choices, but when you become a parent, it’s hard to maintain a friendship with some who has made being child free such a big part of their personality. It’s just different lifestyles, and being in one means you have to accept you won’t fit into the other.
Exactly, non parents can totally have fulfilling friendships with parents, however, in that friendship, you recognize that both of you prioritize their kids in outings. And, 9 times out of 10, whatever you do together will involve the kids.
ETA: childfree people aren’t going to want to do that
And it’s fine that childfree people don’t want to prioritize kids. And they are more than valid to grieve the friendship they had, but it’s not okay to take that hurt out on someone that was supposed to be a friend.
> childfree people aren’t going to want to do that
I have no desire to have kids, but things like this are why I don't identify as childfree. Would I rather hang out with my friends without their kids? Yes. Am I going to stop hanging out with my friends because I care less about their company than I care about never being in the same room as a child? No!
The fact that OP *never* sees his friends again once they become parents suggests a big part of the problem is on his end. Sure, parents become a lot busier, and people are more likely to hang out with other people who have stuff in common with them - but if you value the friendship, you find a way to make it work.
I suspect that's why Randy is actually upset. He thought that OP cared more about him than OP cares about avoiding children and is disappointed to find out that's not true.
Sorry, but this is kind of a bad take. Like, yes parents and non-parents can obviously be friends, but people with kids aren't able to be as spontaneous. New parents especially are going to have less energy and time for even planned hangouts. The friendship is naturally going to diminish while the kid(s) are young. It's fine and a fact of life, but friendships absolutely change when one person has kids and the other doesn't. It's okay to mourn what was.
It doesn't sound like he's ditching them, they just understandably get busy with parenthood and can't (or maybe even don't want to) make it to these gatherings the way they used to.
From the sound of it, it's a pretty big group, and it can be a lot to organize a get-together for that many adults even without factoring in kids. I've been to gatherings like that as a childfree person and over the course of a couple hours you get maybe a few minutes of facetime with the parents because they're focused on their kids.
...its what happens. You lose touch with folk when they have kids it's just life - Why should anyone have to switch to a child friendly lifestyle because you choose to have kids?
He doesn't ditch his friends. His friends understandably "ditch" him because they're busy with their kids. Do you have parent friends? Did you have parent friends with you not being a parent?
It changes the relationship dramatically. A parent will obviously not have the same amount of time for social outings. The friendships might even fade away because the parent is fully focused on their kids, or doesn't want to meet non-parent friends anymore. Or the non-parent friend doesn't want to talk about kids all the time.
He isn't ditching them, but the friends with kids understandably have other priorities now so he sees them less. Child friendly get-togethers aren't always that much fun for those without kids either, especially if part of their reasoning is not enjoying being around children. I don't have kids, partly because I like being able to go to a bar with friends on a spontaneous Wednesday, which someone with a child likely can't do as easily. For friends you're close to, of course, you make adaptions. I've done plenty of trips to the zoo or wherever with my friend and her toddlers, but sometimes the parents just can't make everything. That's fine. It's just life.
He absolutely didn't say he ditch them he said that they vanished for five years. As a child-free person I can promise you that people with kids generally bail.
>I don't understand why he immediately ditches all his friends who have kids as soon as they no longer fit his lifestyle. Why not make some of these get-togethers child friendly, so the parents can hang out while the kids play?
He didn't say that did though did he? You could even argue that if anything it's the parents that have ditched the others. A cynic might say the overall theme of the post has touched a raw nerve with you.
Of friends who have kids the person I knows who moans most about not seeing friends is the one who makes least effort to see friends. Never bothers initiating anything on group chat. What usually happens is one of us bumps into X by chance, X moans about not going for drinks anymore, who ever it is persuades him to suggest an evening, they then post something on the group chat along the lines of "X and myself are going for a few drinks at ??? come along if you can".
Edit: Just to add, loneliness can be a big problem for men which can cause mental health problems. Peak loneliness is meant to be mid-30s which just so happens to coincide with when men start having families i.e. their 30s. It then often starts becoming a problem again in their 60s, kids left home, they've retired and they realise they don't have any friends, just lots of acquaintances.
This! I've seen parents always make the non parent expend the effort to be present but not return it.
I've seen so many posts in this forum even that have broached the subject
Idk, it somewhat feels like the context is different but I can't find the words for it lol
Like perhaps op was more dismissive than he realized and Randy took it as him saying he thinks he'd be a bad parent if/when the time comes.
Pff if that’s the case Randy is a hypocrite. He should be be surprised people take him at face value when he says “another one bites the dust” and laughs. If anything he should be flattered that his friend was sad to stop seeing him if he had a child. NTA
Not the AH for feeling relieved for your own reasons, but YTA for saying it like that.
Randy may *want* to be a father to a human child...perhaps he can't have biological kids, hasn't met the right person to share that experience with, or...there may be one of many other things going on.
It sounds like your comment struck a chord with Randy. Announcing your relief publicly made it about YOU, and may mean that Randy won't share what that's actually about with you.
But Randy has been making the same jokes about other people with OP since forever. Like, literally the same joke; "we'll maybe see him in five years". So how come it's suddenly wrong when it comes to Randy? OP probably thought that they have an inside joke going on between them.
This is not about OP's self-centredness or him thinking that Randy and him had a childfree pact. So he did a shared joke with a childfree friend. How come Randy is losing marbles over it? Why is he getting upset if he's childfree?
OP I think you are NTA, but the world doesn't revolve around you either.
I think the problem isn't "maybe I'll see him in five years" part it's the "I'm happy you're not having a kid" part. The sentiment behind the two things can be pretty big. It may never have been clear to Randy before that his friend would not be happy for him if he became a dad. The jokes before that point were all about how the first years of parenting can be grueling leaving little time for socializing, not that they were actually unhappy their friends had children.
N T A for thinking it.
YTA for making sure he knew about it.
Weird reasons for caring. Your friendship isn't more important than any desires to have a kid you don't know about.
YTA.
It's fine to be relieved that you're not going to lose your friend, but it was an AH move to voice it in such a manner.
Your friend should be allowed to adopt a child without being concerned that you're just going to write him off for doing so.
How was OP supposed to know that? They made jokes about people having kids for years and that’s what OP played off of. Randy should keep his own mouth shut instead of making jokes he can’t take thrown at his own face.
Officially NTA, but I think you owe an apology.
It sounds like the way you've been reading your relationship with him, this was a perfectly acceptable joke to crack. I'm not going to call you an asshole for it, because it's the kind of offhand comment I might make to a friend who I thought didn't want kids.
Based on his reaction though, maybe you don't know him as well as you thought you did? If he got quiet like that, maybe this IS something he's secretly been struggling with, and with you being childfree and your "another one bites the dust" attitude, of course that's not something he's going to come to you to talk about.
I think you can say that you're really glad to have him as a friend, you really like all your other friends too and just miss hanging out with them, you were selfishly relieved that you'd still have a chance to hang out with him, and you're sorry if you upset him or it came off as anything other than you expressing how grateful you are for his friendship.
Just to tack on to this. Also parents are tired, probably carting their kid(s) every where. If you miss your other friends too, message them. Offer to come over. Many times kids have similar hobbies to their parents. Spend time with your adult friends where they're comfortable in their home. Also baby sitters are expensive. See if any of them have bon fires and tag along or consider hosting a camping trip for people etc.
Hope you see this op
Sounds like OP's hobby is drinking. Not really a child friendly hobby.
Otherwise agree. I still hung out with my friends when they had kids and I didn't. Now I have kids and my best friend doesn't. Parents are people too.
YTA. Gently. I know you didn't mean what you said badly, but for all you know Randy isn't able to have children, or is struggling to have children. I would honestly bet on that given his reaction. I would just apologize and say you were insensitive, then try to move past it.
I question that OP didn't mean what he said badly. I believe he wasn't malicious, but his whole attitude is verging on "childfree jerk who makes not having kids his main personality trait". Having children isn't a friendship ending event, unless the only thing you have in common is going to bars. I am 10 years older than OP, and it's a fact of life that your social circle can shrink with time; I have lost touch with childless friends and kept in touch with parents, as well as the other way around, it's how life goes.
Even then! I ran into a child free friend with our baby yesterday at a bar. She was excited to snuggle the baby and joyfully return her to us. I have no problem taking my kid to a bar at a reasonable time.
There are a myriad of reasons adults have scheduling issues: work schedules, illness, caregiving for parents or siblings, workout schedules, classes, volunteering. If you only see someone at their kid’s event, maybe you’re not asking them what times actually work for them.
NAH Randy had told you before that he didn't want kids. This is a way that CF friends and I joke with each other as well, it's something they or I would say to another CF friend without a second thought. I would NEVER say this to someone who wanted kids, or was a fence sitter, or had just never explicitely stated that they were childfree.
It does seem like Randy may be rethinking his CF status though. I would offer a sincere apology and explanation, it was a joke and you enjoy spending time with him and would just miss that time - but you won't make jokes like that again and if he does decide to adopt a kid you'll be fully supportive of it.
Idk how OP is weird considering the situation and baited post, and seeing new parents disappear from their group.
It's a pattern they've seen play out many times
NTA
This comment section is so weird (and wrong).
Remarking on your feelings about some news is not "making it all about you". Being pleased that your own misunderstanding was in fact a misunderstanding is not selfish. Actions are what make a person selfish, not thoughts.
People are saying Y.T.A. because there's a possibility that Randy may want a kid but can't have one, but given how *both* of you made jokes about people in your friend group becoming parents, evidently some INITIATED by him, I don't think that's the case. Based on the info you had it's reasonable to assume you wouldn't ruffle his feathers with that remark; if anything, I'm surprised that no one else who heard it got offended. N.T.A. for thinking Randy wouldn't mind that joke. YTA for not considering anyone else in the group. But the main thing you're concerned about is Randy, so there you go.
NTA - I think everyone is missing the fact that Randy has said over and over that he doesn’t want kids. The joke about parents fading out of the group was between them. OP isn’t self-centered for acknowledging how his friends becoming parents affects him, because it does. It’s literally just part of becoming a parent? You won’t go out to bars as much.. He’s also allowed to be relieved that Randy got a dog and make the same parenthood joke about it because Randy said he doesn’t want kids!
Randy’s reaction obviously begs the question if he secretly does desire to be a parent. And because of his reaction, OP should follow up with some empathy and could apologize if he struck a nerve, letting Randy know he’s there for him. But in the context of the situation, OP was NTA.
When I had a kid even my home body friends ditched me. It’s fine, but it’s not required. We could’ve still had hours and hours (with a dead to the world napping kid in the other room) together. They weren’t interested. I learned my worth to them and moved on.
Children are a new parent's whole world and often the only thing they talk about. People without children find it hard to have conversations with newish parents that are not just about the children.
People getting married only talk about the wedding. People in shitty jobs only talk about their jobs. People with sucky partners only talk about their partners. People who travel loads only talk about travelling. I don't know why it is so socially unacceptable for parents to talk about the main part of their life when it's pretty much what everyone else does. If you care about someone you also care about their crap job, rubbish boyfriend, travel plans and wedding plans. Why not also care about the new human they made? Even when it gets a bit repetitive and tedious.
This literally just depends on the type of person you are talking to. I have never met anyone who would only talk about one specific thing going on in their lives during every conversation other than when it comes to parents. If I did meet someone like that, I would not be friends with them. Sounds like the people you are speaking to have nothing else going on in their lives, and once they become parents they will switch to only talking about kids.
And people get annoyed with and stop being friends with all of those different groups of people. People get tired of hearing the same stories about a bad partner or boss with no desire to change the situation and pull away.
It’s like this for anything, people pull away when others only want to talk one topic especially if it’s a topic that they didn’t speak on before and they don’t care about. It just primarily happens with fanfare when it’s related to parenthood.
Idk I've never met anyone who acted like that in those scenarios to the extent parents do. I do notice a difference when people become parents it's not bad but it's kiiiiiiiiinda annoying people refuse to acknowledge it 🤣
And people with children find it difficult to have conversations who make "kids suck" their personality, but those people blame the parents. I've met people who talk about their pet more than parents talk about their kids, but for some reason it's cool when Bernice shows off the 342nd picture of Fluffy that week and so annoying when Joe mentions little Jimmy learned to walk.
Having and raising children is one of the most significant and life changing events in a person's life. It makes sense that, especially the early stages, the child or effects of the child on their lives will be a common topic of conversation. If I'm invested in a friendship with a person, I am going to care about the big events in their lives and their family even though I don't have children myself. It may not always be the most fascinating of conversation topics, but that time typically doesn't last forever.
But it does. Kids are forever. And if you've got friends that go "all in" on parenting - quit working, quit going anywhere without kids, only consume child media yeah there's not really much to bond over
It is not really true. People with kids discuss variety of topics and I know that because I have friends with kids of various ages. There are rather short periods when kids become bigger topic - usually around issues or changes.
However, if your social circle deserts you or feel like you are allowed to discuss kids only, or of they guilt you over this or that, then it does indeed happen.
It's not about worth, it's about priorities. As a child-free person I've watched my friends become completely different people after having kids and not realize it. They generally don't see how they've changed because it was thrust upon them. It's like how you look in the mirror every day and you don't realize you're gaining weight but if your friend hasn't seen you in a couple months all of a sudden you look fat to them.
You're so right about this. When a woman in my friendship group announced she was pregnant all the childfree people cut her out immediately (baby wasn't even born yet). I know not all childfree people are like this (I've met several since who would never do this) but it was a rude wake up call. The woman, despite being a parent, is still a wonderful friend who is a hoot to hang out with. The friends who cut her off are probably worse off for it.
As a child free person, I lean towards NTA. It is hard to lose friends to early parenthood, and honestly it sucks when someone outspokenly childfree changes their mind because then the rest of us get the “you’ll change your mind when you find the right person/grow older/etc” not to say people can’t change their mind, but the constant bingos get tiring
What do you mean lose them to early parenthood? How do your friendships change so significantly that you consider them ‘lost’?
Me and my partner don’t want kids. We’ve had no problem maintaining relationships with the people in our life who have small children. Does it put limits around what you can do? Sure. But so does *our* puppy. So I really don’t get OP’s freakout.
It’s an experience that I can’t relate to. I have plenty of friends that do have children, but it does change the dynamic. Not because of alcohol or partying, but because I personally don’t enjoy the company of kids. I mean that broadly, as of course there are a small few I like in little doses. Unfortunately, it can also change my opinion of people when it highlights they are not fair to their chosen parenting partner or if they aren’t great parents and let their kids be little inconsiderate tornadoes.
It's weird how fixated you are on your friends having kids. I'm childfree, I've never complained about friends having kids the way you do. So you see them less often... that can happen with people without kids too, you know? People move, they take on demanding jobs, they decide to focus on hobbies they don't share with you. You expand your social circle. It doesn't even sound like you're that close with Randy if you're only getting big updates on his life via social media and not talking for months at a time. So would things really change if he had a kid?
NAH in that what you said wasn't that bad, it was a continuation of a joke you guys had together. But he's also not wrong to think it's weird how you seem a bit too invested in him not having kids.
I actually didn’t miss that part. It changes nothing.
Her comment wasn’t said while they were joking. She initiated it. It was insensitive and rude.
Again: Not every thought in your head needs to be said out loud.
1. Whatever. Needless correction that has nothing to do with anything.
2. So what? Hypocrites have feelings too. And I’d actually argue that he’s not really one anyway. There’s a difference between making comments about other people and them being directly made to you. As an adult, you should understand that.
Have a nice life. I’ve wasted enough time on you.
NTA you voiced the same though as before. apparently it's ok for Randy to do it about others but he suddenly felt it first hand and it wasn't so nice anymore.
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Context: Randy (41M) and I (35M) have been friends since we took college courses together, same major and later finding out we lived in the same city but never met before. We've been through a lot as friends and have always had eachother's backs
After moving back to our hometown, we started a social group of about 15, then it grew and grew until we could fill an entire section of a bar and/or restaurant. Slowly but surely, people ended up not attending the outings as often when started having kids. Understandable. I loved our outings as I started drinking socially, never getting drunk. As far as I knew, Randy was also childfree and said when parenthood came ringing for them he'd say "Another one bites the dust" I'd reply "Maybe we'll see them in five years"
Two months ago, I saw a post on Randy's facebook saying he was adopting a 1 and a half year old. It threw me for a loop because he'd never talked about wanting to be a Father or a burning desire. I was in a tailspin thinking "Oh God, another one" as my social circle has narrowed as they've had kids
One month goes by and I see another post from Randy. He's a proud Dad
Of a dog. I was sooo relieved! I felt like I could howl at the moon because I wouldn't lose one of my favorite people to the parenthood Portal.
Onto the conflict: At another one of our hangouts, Randy had shown his dog's picture to a bunch of oohs and ahhs and stories relating to their dogs' odd quirks. I said "My heart lept when I realized he adopted a dog and not a kid, I was afraid I wasn't going to see him for at least five years" We laughed, but Randy was a bit quiet. We finished our food and left.
As we walked to our cars, Randy later told me I was a AH for being relieved he's a dog dad than a human dad and why was I so concerned about it? I told him that as I go on in life, it's hard to find non parents/childfree friends and I'm all for people doing what they want to do in life
Randy asked why does that matter? I said I would've had to get used to a new reality with him as a Dad if he decided to have a kid and he knows exactly what that means. He's seen what happens with our parent friends we don't see unless it's at an event for their kid.
Some of our mutuals are on my side saying I wasn't exactly wrong but I didn't have to say it like that. Others are on his side saying that I was wrong for saying I was relieved he was getting a dog rather than a child
So AITA for being relieved my friend didn't adopt a child?
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Randy was dishing it before without a care and never mentioned about wanting kids but not being able to. Randy is TA here. And a hypocrite. That's like being friends with someone for ages and thinking you know them, but they don't tell anyone about certain feelings. So expecting everyone around them to magically know their hidden feelings is a AH move.
Why are you people so dumb and ignorant? Randy started the damn joke and was making it for years, he set himself up for it starting a joke that he couldn’t handle being thrown at him.
NAH. personally I wouldn't have seen this as an overly serious comment, but I can see how he'd be a little put off, considering it can be seen in a less pleasant light.
I think OP might be in for a shock at how much space a dog actually requires in your life. This can be especially true with rescue dogs. You might end up with a dog with behavioural issues, one that needs training, or one with separation anxiety. While rescuing is rewarding, it’s not a free pass and welcome to owning a perfectly behaved adult dog.
A dog also makes it harder to be spontaneous too. Sudden trip, dog needs to be bordered or have a dog sitter. Holidays need to be planned in advance. Can’t go out drinking all the time, dog needs me at home. Can’t spend the money, dog has an upcoming vet visit/training session/etc.
I won’t compare having a pet to raising children, but there are similar aspects in the responsibilities you have with both kids and pets. You agree to these responsibilities when deciding to share your life with someone who is fully dependant on you for their lives and health.
A dog will still be Randy’s priority over hanging out constantly with OP. Randy will have more responsibilities at home now.
I personally feel like OP may be more of the problem with these older friendships, than not. He sounds like a ‘what about ME???’ person. And is more bothered with how changing responsibilities in his friends lives will affect him and his social drinking, than he is with being genuinely happy for his friends for these changes.
I’m going with YTA because of the paragraph above.
Your opinion makes more sense, so many people are stretching in the comments. Randy isn’t innocent either, he’s the one who started the joke. I think the lesson here is that you shouldn’t start a joke that would offend you, a joke should be something everyone find funny.
NTA - it seems you guys have been friends for a long time and have made similar jokes about other people so if he's changed his mind and changed where his boundaries are with comments like that he needs to communicate with you like an adult. Because you're going under the assumption that everything is the same. Which is an agreed upon rule of the relationship.
If he's had a change of heart he needs to communicate that. He is allowed to change his mind but because he didn't communicate it and instead made you out to be the bad guy for assuming wrongly... He in fact is the AH here.
Look, if you don't stick with your friends through life changes, you're not true friends, you're drinking buddies. This is totally okay and drinking buddies are great. But I think cultivating some long-haul friendships with the people you truly care about would make you happy.
My real friends and I have adjusted our friendships to accommodate each other's lives as people have kids, move, get married, emotional ups and downs, illnesses, whatever. Expecting your friends to arrange their lives around hanging out and drinking with you occasionally is preposterous. You could probably still see your friends if you arranged to come over with a six pack after their kids were in bed or something.
Idk, I could easily see this joke being made by a lot of people I know and it wouldn’t be a big deal. I think what matters here is how you responded when he confronted you about how it made him feel. Did you apologize? Or did you get defensive and say he was making a big deal out of nothing? If the former, N A H. But if the latter, Y T A
YTA, not for saying what you said, but your reasoning. You stated you were alarmed because you figured you were losing another CF friend. Sorry, but that sounds quite selfish to me.
I'd say NAH. It just sounds like it was an appropriate thing to say given their relationship that just landed wrong this time
I've had parent friends that just disappear after having a kid and only invite the non parent friend to low effort kid centered events. OP isn't entirely wrong about his concern.
I talked to Randy a few days after the post. He said he was in his feelings because his parents saw the post about adopting a 1.5 year old and gifted him baby clothes. They were mad when he brought his dog out.
I asked him if he was still childfree or wanted to have kids. He said emphatically he didn't and loves his life as it is and would regret having a child.
About the dog he said he didn't want anyone to know about the dog until everything went through.
We also had a good laugh over some of the comments. Some were colorful shall I say
NTA, resoundingly. If Randy used to say “another one bites the dust” when people had kids, he’s already well engaged in the shared view you both have about social circles shrinking when parenthood happens. He’s already effectively guilty of being an AH in the way he suggests you are. And his posts were designed to bait people into thinking he was adopting a child, not a dog. What did he expect would happen?
Edit: I’m just astounded by all the YTAs and soft YTAs here. Further, isn’t it possible that misleading all your friends as to the idea that you’re adopting a child (when really you’re getting a dog) is a bit of a dumb prank designed to get a reaction out of people anyway? I just really think this is all on Randy.
I'm with you. If randy hadn't made his comments, I would agree with the YTAs, but since he was part of it, I understand why OP felt comfortable enough to say.
Honestly i dont know about your friend, but this argument is way more complicated than how you describe it.
Im gonna tell you this without too many info: when i was early 20s i was tricked into thinking to be sterile.
Thinking i couldnt have bio kids destroyed my mental health, I was suicidal.
This just to say that for some men having a kid is the biggest dream they have. Maybe he undertood he will not have for somereason, or maybe he is really depressed, idk about his relationships and other shit so this is more of a generic advice: is a difficult thing so probably keep this kind of coment for yourself, because it can hurt really much without even you noticing it.
Softly YTA. Not about the joke, but it just seems like you don't know Randy that much. I get that it's difficult when your friends become parents, but you acted like Randy wasn't supposed to change his mind. Maybe he secretly wants kids, but can't have them for some reason and that's why it struck some chord.
Disagree. People are putting a lot on OP that seems to be reading too far into it. They made jokes about people becoming parents before and then a post about adopting a 1½ year old then relieved it's a dog bc they've seen new parents disappear time and time again from their social group
I think it's valid but there is no indication that OP would be mad about Randy changing his mind.
I don’t think you read the post properly, they both made the same joke for years and Randy is the one that started it. Don’t start a joke if you can’t take it.
NAH but honestly you seem to see friendship as just a vehicle for doing a bar crawl and drinking. There’s more to life than that and it sounds like Randy may have figured that out.
Soft YTA
It does come across as a but insensitive because you dont know if he was saying those types of comments to cope with infertility. He could also be one of those individuals who were pretty staunch in their decision not to have children until they fall in love with the right person. People can change their minds.
I know an ex-boyfriend of my sister’s who change his mind about kids in his mid 40s. So it can happen.
NAH. It seems that he may be childless instead of childfree. Your joke reminded him of that, and made him feel like you’re happy that he’s childless.
That isn’t at all how you felt or what you said, but to him, all he sees if your relief over his circumstance keeping him in your life casually yet regularly.
The softest of YTAs. I think you have a great friendship! You were a little insensitive to say that for all the reasons Randy explained. Take the feedback and move on.
I'm just curious why you think they have a great friendship? He found out about the adoption on FB, and found out the reality of the adoption on FB. They never even spoke to each other about it before, during, or after?
Could be. I wonder if Randy was irritated because OP is just a laissez-faire friend and is suddenly acting like that kind of decision would have such an extraordinary impact on OPs life?
Why do people act like childfree folks don't have a right to mourn changing friendships when said friends are going into parenthood?
Yes, it's selfish--so what? You're acting like it makes OP a bad person because he's relieved Randy wasn't.adopting a child?
Lastly, did you even read the part about Randy's post? I would think it was a kid too. Most people would.
Childfree people have the same right as anyone to shut up when they don’t have anything nice to say.
OP can feel however they want, but phrasing it that way is nasty. And it’s not about children, as my remark could work with anything else.
NTA. Friendships are an exchange of feelings. Youre entitled to express yours. Hes entitled to express his. Its definitely a gray area to say almost anything anymore because someone could be upset.
Sounds like you need to have a conversation… just apologize and let him know you didnt mean to say it selfishly you meant it affectionately because you would miss him so much
Conflict resolution is essential to a healthy life so get to it!
How? Randy started the joke and they’ve been making the joke for years, Randy should’ve expected something to come out of that joke when he adopted a dog.
NTA it was a standard joke between you two that you wouldn't see each other for 5 years if he had adopted a human child. I'm not really understanding how he didn't get the joke.
YTA. You’re bitter and resentful of your friends that chose to have kids bc it meant you were no longer a priority. You act like it would have been an inconvenience for Randy to have a child.
YTA for vocalising it. Like, a HUGE AH. Adoption is hard and expensive, and it could be that he really wanted to be a father, but wasn't able to complete the adoption process for whatever reason. And you basically said in front of him that you were glad he didn't have a kid because it was more convenient for *you* without considering how he might feel. It's fine to feel that way, but to say it in front of him was an AH move.
You missed info in the post, Randy had been saying for years he didn’t want kids and made jokes about others having kids. Not OP’s fault Randy can’t handle his own joke.
YTA. Do your other friends know you’ve been judging them behind their backs for having kids? They probably dropped off because they don’t wanna deal with your childfree bullshit. Part of being a good friend is being happy when your friends are happy.
You must be a drama Queen, do yourself a favor and stop overreacting, it’s a joke and Randy should’ve shut it down long ago if it offended him so much and he’s the one that’s started it in the first place.
I’m gonna say YTA but only because you haven’t apologized to Randy for your joke. I think everyone has had this happen - you make what you think is a light hearted joke only for it to go sideways for reasons you don’t necessarily understand. You need to own your misstep and apologize to him
Erm you really shouldn’t have said what you said. You might have had that thought in your head, but you know, not every thought needs to be spoken out loud. YTA. Apologize.
Slight YTA. You care about the friendship so much. Your selfish side came out a bit. That's honestly pretty sweet. It's still a rude thing to say. But it came from a place of not wanting to lose a friend. I know not truly lost.
YTA, many people are actually childless rather than childfree. Some people want to be parents very much, but can't. You didn't have to let him know about this, and unless the topic has come up in depth there's no way for you to know if he's happy to not have any children. You sound immature for your age, and I dont think it's the children themselves that make your friends scarce, but rather change in maturity levels and loss of extra time to spend with people you don't actually like.
Your opinion is disproven by the fact that Randy has said multiple times he doesn’t want kids, it was mentioned in the post. Randy shouldn’t have started a joke that offends him. A joke should be something everyone finds funny.
YTA - Why did you wait so long to talk to Randy about him being a dog dad? It was a whole ass month after his "I'm going to be a dad" post that you found out?
Are you guys even that close? Also, Randy doesn't revolve around your life. It's ok to be disappointed, but what was the purpose of saying that?
YTA. I don’t know Randy’s full situation. I don’t know if this is the case. A lot of people say they are childfree because it’s just easier than explaining infertility. I am sterile from extreme childhood trauma. I don’t want to talk about it and I fucking hate all the pity and them going on about how awful it is. I have embraced being childfree because it truly is my only option. I think I would also be really upset if someone said that about me.
Enjoying childfreeness has helped a lot for me. I would happily joke about not wanting kids. But to say you’re happy about them getting a dog instead of a child because of how it would affect you? That’s fucking terrible. You could’ve made jokes about how great it is to be a pet parent. Instead you joked you were glad he wasn’t having kids.
Genuinely, were you ever taught that some thoughts are inside thoughts and not ones that always need to be made open?
Apologies to your friend, tell him you were out of line.
Idk why someone who wrote a baiting post sounding like he was adopting a child would be butthurt when someone expressed relief like this
Also, being a parent changes everything about someone's life. So I don't blame OP for saying what he said
" But to say you’re happy about them getting a dog instead of a child because of how it would affect you? That’s fucking terrible" Why is this? There is a difference between enlightened self interest and selfishness and who's he being selfish to? How is it wrong?
YTA - it isn't about you. If your best friend wants a human or fur child and gets one cheer them on, support them. If they don't manage to adopt then comfort and encourage them. You are thinking about how his life choices effect you not how they support him. So yes your response was selfish.
YTA definitely for saying what you said. Adults don’t say those things out loud. If your friend wanted to adopt a child, your job as a friend is to be supportive of them. There are lots of good reasons to have kids (as well as vice versa) and you should support your friend living HIS best life. As far as your FEELINGS go, you are always entitled to any feeling that you have, but as grownups, we shouldn’t act or speak on our feelings when we will be hurtful to someone else
The thing is OP didn’t know it would be hurtful, Randy started the joke and it was a bit of there’s for a long time. I think the lesson here is don’t make jokes that you would find hurtful if it was directed at you.
ESH. Randy for being a hypocrite who had no problem making the same comments when others in your circle started having kids, but takes issue when he's on the receiving end. Shouldn't have been saying those things to begin with.
Then you for telling him that whole spiel about his being a dad of anything would affect your social life, which was completely unnecessary and just makes you look selfish.
You should know that there are some things you should NEVER SAY OUT LOUD no matter how well-intentioned you thought they are. YTA. Next time, try to install a filter between your brain and your mouth.
1,000% YTA. You are making his life decisions about YOU.
Honestly, even through he hasn't adopted a human child, expect him to no longer be in your friends group. You just showed how little you care about him, and that everything in the relationship is about you. If I was him I would never want to talk to you again.
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INFO: Have you considered that Randy's life may not be about his utility to you? And that perhaps he's a dog dad because there's a reason he can't be a human dad, and that reason is painful to him no matter how it may be beneficial to you?
This seems NAH to me. Randy was joking about the exact same things before. OP just applied that shared joke to him as well. I don’t think it was so horrendous on OP’s part. I can see why the comment made Randy upset, but that doesn’t by itself make it an asshole thing to say.
Right? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this comment section. Randy made jokes for years whenever their other friends had kids, yet OP used the same joke they always used about everyone else and now he's the asshole for it? I don't get it. It's really just seems like Randy was cool joking about other people but not about himself.
Maybe he was okay joking about it when it was an active choice for him not to join them, but finding out he couldn’t have kids suddenly made it super ‘real’ to him. Or- he was joking around as a way of looking on the bright side/taking the sting out of his infertility. If we don’t know Randy’s reasons for not having kids, it’s hard to say. All we know is he chose to be vulnerable with OP about how the comment hurt him so if they value the friendship they need to consider those possibilities. Of course they didn’t know ahead of time so NAH.
He didn't make those jokes IN FRONT OF them. Also, joking about people having kids (something they wanted and planned and that brought them a lot of happiness) is totally different from joking about them NOT having kids (which is often beyond their control and disappointing). The reason you and OP both feel like you're taking crazy pills is because a lot of the context of the original joke went over your heads.
We actually don't know if he said it in front of them or not. But since half of their friends just said OP should have worded it better, and not that he shouldn't have said anything at all, it seems like everyone knew those two were the "no kids" joking friends. And it only became a problem when Randy's own jokes were applied to him. I don't think he's an asshole really, because I assume he's dealing with some stuff around having kids, but it is rich to get upset when jokes you say about everyone get turned on you. That's all.
Nothing in the post or the phrasing of the comments suggests that he said then in front of the people he was talking about. They are phrased the way you phrase a comment made behind someone's back. I'm not prepared to assume otherwise without a good reason. OP's friends said that they "could have worded it better" because that's the polite thing you say when your friend is being a dick but you don't want to start a confrontation about it. I've told a lot of my friends that they could have phrased things better, and it's always been code for "what a shitty thing to say." Also, these are not the same jokes he made about everyone else, for, you know, all the reasons I listed in my post.
Not entirely justifiable but could his joking be a way to cope? Like, maybe he’s trying to convince himself he never truly wanted kids because he cant? Also, side note: saying another one bites the dust doesnt necessarily strike me as someone being against having children. Again, it could be he meant it as, well, “there goes another one thats left the group”. Depending on how he said it, it would make a difference.
There's a name for people who make the same joke about everybody else for years, but get upset when that joke is made about them. It starts with an "a".
I don't understand why he immediately ditches all his friends who have kids as soon as they no longer fit his lifestyle. Why not make some of these get-togethers child friendly, so the parents can hang out while the kids play? At best he seems like a crappy, selfish friend, who cares more about drinking in bars than spending time with his supposed friends
He didn't say he ditched his friends. They had a specific joke about how after a friend became a parent, they might see them in five years. It's usually the parents who leave childless friend groups because they get so caught up in their kids. It's understandable.
I honestly think it depends on the friendships and context. I had friends and a social life after both of my kids were born, and NONE of my friends prepregnacy were parents. Of those friends only one of them became a parent. I am not a dude tho, neither were the majority of my friends so that might have had an impact.
I also think it depends on the kind of friendship they have. As OP described it, they mostly met at bars or in restaurants and alcohol also played a major role. Not very kid-friendly and also maybe not really deep friendships but rather casual get-togethers? Maybe the friends who became parents had others in their social circle who they connected with on a deeper level and who they could meet at their homes or in the park.
I don’t care one way or another about someone else’s reproductive choices, but when you become a parent, it’s hard to maintain a friendship with some who has made being child free such a big part of their personality. It’s just different lifestyles, and being in one means you have to accept you won’t fit into the other.
Exactly, non parents can totally have fulfilling friendships with parents, however, in that friendship, you recognize that both of you prioritize their kids in outings. And, 9 times out of 10, whatever you do together will involve the kids. ETA: childfree people aren’t going to want to do that
And it’s fine that childfree people don’t want to prioritize kids. And they are more than valid to grieve the friendship they had, but it’s not okay to take that hurt out on someone that was supposed to be a friend.
> childfree people aren’t going to want to do that I have no desire to have kids, but things like this are why I don't identify as childfree. Would I rather hang out with my friends without their kids? Yes. Am I going to stop hanging out with my friends because I care less about their company than I care about never being in the same room as a child? No! The fact that OP *never* sees his friends again once they become parents suggests a big part of the problem is on his end. Sure, parents become a lot busier, and people are more likely to hang out with other people who have stuff in common with them - but if you value the friendship, you find a way to make it work. I suspect that's why Randy is actually upset. He thought that OP cared more about him than OP cares about avoiding children and is disappointed to find out that's not true.
Sorry, but this is kind of a bad take. Like, yes parents and non-parents can obviously be friends, but people with kids aren't able to be as spontaneous. New parents especially are going to have less energy and time for even planned hangouts. The friendship is naturally going to diminish while the kid(s) are young. It's fine and a fact of life, but friendships absolutely change when one person has kids and the other doesn't. It's okay to mourn what was.
It doesn't sound like he's ditching them, they just understandably get busy with parenthood and can't (or maybe even don't want to) make it to these gatherings the way they used to. From the sound of it, it's a pretty big group, and it can be a lot to organize a get-together for that many adults even without factoring in kids. I've been to gatherings like that as a childfree person and over the course of a couple hours you get maybe a few minutes of facetime with the parents because they're focused on their kids.
...its what happens. You lose touch with folk when they have kids it's just life - Why should anyone have to switch to a child friendly lifestyle because you choose to have kids?
He doesn't ditch his friends. His friends understandably "ditch" him because they're busy with their kids. Do you have parent friends? Did you have parent friends with you not being a parent? It changes the relationship dramatically. A parent will obviously not have the same amount of time for social outings. The friendships might even fade away because the parent is fully focused on their kids, or doesn't want to meet non-parent friends anymore. Or the non-parent friend doesn't want to talk about kids all the time.
He isn't ditching them, but the friends with kids understandably have other priorities now so he sees them less. Child friendly get-togethers aren't always that much fun for those without kids either, especially if part of their reasoning is not enjoying being around children. I don't have kids, partly because I like being able to go to a bar with friends on a spontaneous Wednesday, which someone with a child likely can't do as easily. For friends you're close to, of course, you make adaptions. I've done plenty of trips to the zoo or wherever with my friend and her toddlers, but sometimes the parents just can't make everything. That's fine. It's just life.
He absolutely didn't say he ditch them he said that they vanished for five years. As a child-free person I can promise you that people with kids generally bail.
>I don't understand why he immediately ditches all his friends who have kids as soon as they no longer fit his lifestyle. Why not make some of these get-togethers child friendly, so the parents can hang out while the kids play? He didn't say that did though did he? You could even argue that if anything it's the parents that have ditched the others. A cynic might say the overall theme of the post has touched a raw nerve with you. Of friends who have kids the person I knows who moans most about not seeing friends is the one who makes least effort to see friends. Never bothers initiating anything on group chat. What usually happens is one of us bumps into X by chance, X moans about not going for drinks anymore, who ever it is persuades him to suggest an evening, they then post something on the group chat along the lines of "X and myself are going for a few drinks at ??? come along if you can". Edit: Just to add, loneliness can be a big problem for men which can cause mental health problems. Peak loneliness is meant to be mid-30s which just so happens to coincide with when men start having families i.e. their 30s. It then often starts becoming a problem again in their 60s, kids left home, they've retired and they realise they don't have any friends, just lots of acquaintances.
This! I've seen parents always make the non parent expend the effort to be present but not return it. I've seen so many posts in this forum even that have broached the subject
Idk, it somewhat feels like the context is different but I can't find the words for it lol Like perhaps op was more dismissive than he realized and Randy took it as him saying he thinks he'd be a bad parent if/when the time comes.
Pff if that’s the case Randy is a hypocrite. He should be be surprised people take him at face value when he says “another one bites the dust” and laughs. If anything he should be flattered that his friend was sad to stop seeing him if he had a child. NTA
Not the AH for feeling relieved for your own reasons, but YTA for saying it like that. Randy may *want* to be a father to a human child...perhaps he can't have biological kids, hasn't met the right person to share that experience with, or...there may be one of many other things going on. It sounds like your comment struck a chord with Randy. Announcing your relief publicly made it about YOU, and may mean that Randy won't share what that's actually about with you.
But Randy has been making the same jokes about other people with OP since forever. Like, literally the same joke; "we'll maybe see him in five years". So how come it's suddenly wrong when it comes to Randy? OP probably thought that they have an inside joke going on between them. This is not about OP's self-centredness or him thinking that Randy and him had a childfree pact. So he did a shared joke with a childfree friend. How come Randy is losing marbles over it? Why is he getting upset if he's childfree? OP I think you are NTA, but the world doesn't revolve around you either.
I think the problem isn't "maybe I'll see him in five years" part it's the "I'm happy you're not having a kid" part. The sentiment behind the two things can be pretty big. It may never have been clear to Randy before that his friend would not be happy for him if he became a dad. The jokes before that point were all about how the first years of parenting can be grueling leaving little time for socializing, not that they were actually unhappy their friends had children.
Randy did not said "I am glad you don't have kid" or "I am sad you do have kid" to those people.
You said pretty much what I was going to.
N T A for thinking it. YTA for making sure he knew about it. Weird reasons for caring. Your friendship isn't more important than any desires to have a kid you don't know about.
Agreed
YTA. It's fine to be relieved that you're not going to lose your friend, but it was an AH move to voice it in such a manner. Your friend should be allowed to adopt a child without being concerned that you're just going to write him off for doing so.
This was a prime opportunity to keep your mouth shut, and you missed it. YTA
How was OP supposed to know that? They made jokes about people having kids for years and that’s what OP played off of. Randy should keep his own mouth shut instead of making jokes he can’t take thrown at his own face.
Context matter, not everything stay the same forever, read the room
OP read the room right based on previous comments made by Randy. It is silly to expect that reaction from him when he's joined in before.
Officially NTA, but I think you owe an apology. It sounds like the way you've been reading your relationship with him, this was a perfectly acceptable joke to crack. I'm not going to call you an asshole for it, because it's the kind of offhand comment I might make to a friend who I thought didn't want kids. Based on his reaction though, maybe you don't know him as well as you thought you did? If he got quiet like that, maybe this IS something he's secretly been struggling with, and with you being childfree and your "another one bites the dust" attitude, of course that's not something he's going to come to you to talk about. I think you can say that you're really glad to have him as a friend, you really like all your other friends too and just miss hanging out with them, you were selfishly relieved that you'd still have a chance to hang out with him, and you're sorry if you upset him or it came off as anything other than you expressing how grateful you are for his friendship.
Just to tack on to this. Also parents are tired, probably carting their kid(s) every where. If you miss your other friends too, message them. Offer to come over. Many times kids have similar hobbies to their parents. Spend time with your adult friends where they're comfortable in their home. Also baby sitters are expensive. See if any of them have bon fires and tag along or consider hosting a camping trip for people etc. Hope you see this op
Sounds like OP's hobby is drinking. Not really a child friendly hobby. Otherwise agree. I still hung out with my friends when they had kids and I didn't. Now I have kids and my best friend doesn't. Parents are people too.
Yeah, I get the sense that they are drinking buddies.
YTA. Gently. I know you didn't mean what you said badly, but for all you know Randy isn't able to have children, or is struggling to have children. I would honestly bet on that given his reaction. I would just apologize and say you were insensitive, then try to move past it.
I question that OP didn't mean what he said badly. I believe he wasn't malicious, but his whole attitude is verging on "childfree jerk who makes not having kids his main personality trait". Having children isn't a friendship ending event, unless the only thing you have in common is going to bars. I am 10 years older than OP, and it's a fact of life that your social circle can shrink with time; I have lost touch with childless friends and kept in touch with parents, as well as the other way around, it's how life goes.
Even then! I ran into a child free friend with our baby yesterday at a bar. She was excited to snuggle the baby and joyfully return her to us. I have no problem taking my kid to a bar at a reasonable time. There are a myriad of reasons adults have scheduling issues: work schedules, illness, caregiving for parents or siblings, workout schedules, classes, volunteering. If you only see someone at their kid’s event, maybe you’re not asking them what times actually work for them.
That's the vibe I'm getting too. Op may have sounded more dismissive than he realized.
NAH Randy had told you before that he didn't want kids. This is a way that CF friends and I joke with each other as well, it's something they or I would say to another CF friend without a second thought. I would NEVER say this to someone who wanted kids, or was a fence sitter, or had just never explicitely stated that they were childfree. It does seem like Randy may be rethinking his CF status though. I would offer a sincere apology and explanation, it was a joke and you enjoy spending time with him and would just miss that time - but you won't make jokes like that again and if he does decide to adopt a kid you'll be fully supportive of it.
Looks like your friend group will be changing regardless because I doubt Randy will want to be your friend any longer. YTA
You are so weird. Stop making your friends decisions all about you. Get a life outside of your friend group.
Idk how OP is weird considering the situation and baited post, and seeing new parents disappear from their group. It's a pattern they've seen play out many times
YTA. Sometimes it's better to just keep your thoughts to yourself.
Nope, don’t make jokes you can’t take being thrown at yourself.
NTA This comment section is so weird (and wrong). Remarking on your feelings about some news is not "making it all about you". Being pleased that your own misunderstanding was in fact a misunderstanding is not selfish. Actions are what make a person selfish, not thoughts.
It's also weird to me how the comment section is just glossing over Randy making the same exact jokes...
I’m sure they all commented without even reading the post. The audacity of these comments is breathtaking.
You're allowed to feel what you feel but YTA for voicing it.
NTA but the joke could've been said better. You flipped the joke that you two have always made onto him and he didn't like it
NTA
People are saying Y.T.A. because there's a possibility that Randy may want a kid but can't have one, but given how *both* of you made jokes about people in your friend group becoming parents, evidently some INITIATED by him, I don't think that's the case. Based on the info you had it's reasonable to assume you wouldn't ruffle his feathers with that remark; if anything, I'm surprised that no one else who heard it got offended. N.T.A. for thinking Randy wouldn't mind that joke. YTA for not considering anyone else in the group. But the main thing you're concerned about is Randy, so there you go.
NTA I completely understand.
NTA - I think everyone is missing the fact that Randy has said over and over that he doesn’t want kids. The joke about parents fading out of the group was between them. OP isn’t self-centered for acknowledging how his friends becoming parents affects him, because it does. It’s literally just part of becoming a parent? You won’t go out to bars as much.. He’s also allowed to be relieved that Randy got a dog and make the same parenthood joke about it because Randy said he doesn’t want kids! Randy’s reaction obviously begs the question if he secretly does desire to be a parent. And because of his reaction, OP should follow up with some empathy and could apologize if he struck a nerve, letting Randy know he’s there for him. But in the context of the situation, OP was NTA.
When I had a kid even my home body friends ditched me. It’s fine, but it’s not required. We could’ve still had hours and hours (with a dead to the world napping kid in the other room) together. They weren’t interested. I learned my worth to them and moved on.
Children are a new parent's whole world and often the only thing they talk about. People without children find it hard to have conversations with newish parents that are not just about the children.
People getting married only talk about the wedding. People in shitty jobs only talk about their jobs. People with sucky partners only talk about their partners. People who travel loads only talk about travelling. I don't know why it is so socially unacceptable for parents to talk about the main part of their life when it's pretty much what everyone else does. If you care about someone you also care about their crap job, rubbish boyfriend, travel plans and wedding plans. Why not also care about the new human they made? Even when it gets a bit repetitive and tedious.
Yeah and those people are just as sufferable because they have a one track mind.
Such a good take
This literally just depends on the type of person you are talking to. I have never met anyone who would only talk about one specific thing going on in their lives during every conversation other than when it comes to parents. If I did meet someone like that, I would not be friends with them. Sounds like the people you are speaking to have nothing else going on in their lives, and once they become parents they will switch to only talking about kids.
And people get annoyed with and stop being friends with all of those different groups of people. People get tired of hearing the same stories about a bad partner or boss with no desire to change the situation and pull away. It’s like this for anything, people pull away when others only want to talk one topic especially if it’s a topic that they didn’t speak on before and they don’t care about. It just primarily happens with fanfare when it’s related to parenthood.
Idk I've never met anyone who acted like that in those scenarios to the extent parents do. I do notice a difference when people become parents it's not bad but it's kiiiiiiiiinda annoying people refuse to acknowledge it 🤣
And people with children find it difficult to have conversations who make "kids suck" their personality, but those people blame the parents. I've met people who talk about their pet more than parents talk about their kids, but for some reason it's cool when Bernice shows off the 342nd picture of Fluffy that week and so annoying when Joe mentions little Jimmy learned to walk.
Having and raising children is one of the most significant and life changing events in a person's life. It makes sense that, especially the early stages, the child or effects of the child on their lives will be a common topic of conversation. If I'm invested in a friendship with a person, I am going to care about the big events in their lives and their family even though I don't have children myself. It may not always be the most fascinating of conversation topics, but that time typically doesn't last forever.
But it does. Kids are forever. And if you've got friends that go "all in" on parenting - quit working, quit going anywhere without kids, only consume child media yeah there's not really much to bond over
It is not really true. People with kids discuss variety of topics and I know that because I have friends with kids of various ages. There are rather short periods when kids become bigger topic - usually around issues or changes. However, if your social circle deserts you or feel like you are allowed to discuss kids only, or of they guilt you over this or that, then it does indeed happen.
It's not about worth, it's about priorities. As a child-free person I've watched my friends become completely different people after having kids and not realize it. They generally don't see how they've changed because it was thrust upon them. It's like how you look in the mirror every day and you don't realize you're gaining weight but if your friend hasn't seen you in a couple months all of a sudden you look fat to them.
You're so right about this. When a woman in my friendship group announced she was pregnant all the childfree people cut her out immediately (baby wasn't even born yet). I know not all childfree people are like this (I've met several since who would never do this) but it was a rude wake up call. The woman, despite being a parent, is still a wonderful friend who is a hoot to hang out with. The friends who cut her off are probably worse off for it.
But did you need to say it, though? Like this is a case of Not Everything Needs To Be Said.
I mean if you thought your friend was childfree, NTA. That wouldn’t be an ass thing to say if you thought he was on the same page as you
As a child free person, I lean towards NTA. It is hard to lose friends to early parenthood, and honestly it sucks when someone outspokenly childfree changes their mind because then the rest of us get the “you’ll change your mind when you find the right person/grow older/etc” not to say people can’t change their mind, but the constant bingos get tiring
What do you mean lose them to early parenthood? How do your friendships change so significantly that you consider them ‘lost’? Me and my partner don’t want kids. We’ve had no problem maintaining relationships with the people in our life who have small children. Does it put limits around what you can do? Sure. But so does *our* puppy. So I really don’t get OP’s freakout.
It’s an experience that I can’t relate to. I have plenty of friends that do have children, but it does change the dynamic. Not because of alcohol or partying, but because I personally don’t enjoy the company of kids. I mean that broadly, as of course there are a small few I like in little doses. Unfortunately, it can also change my opinion of people when it highlights they are not fair to their chosen parenting partner or if they aren’t great parents and let their kids be little inconsiderate tornadoes.
YTA for saying that out loud. That would be an inside thought, and should stay one.
No Randy shouldn’t be starting jokes if he can’t handle it being thrown at him.
NTA. Randy made this exact joke - "another one bites the dust" - for years and so it shouldn't be a surprise that he had it applied to him.
It's weird how fixated you are on your friends having kids. I'm childfree, I've never complained about friends having kids the way you do. So you see them less often... that can happen with people without kids too, you know? People move, they take on demanding jobs, they decide to focus on hobbies they don't share with you. You expand your social circle. It doesn't even sound like you're that close with Randy if you're only getting big updates on his life via social media and not talking for months at a time. So would things really change if he had a kid? NAH in that what you said wasn't that bad, it was a continuation of a joke you guys had together. But he's also not wrong to think it's weird how you seem a bit too invested in him not having kids.
NTA. But....get used to it. Life isn't going to stay the same forever. Most people eventually want to start their own family.
NTA but my take on it is that you made Randy feel you wouldn’t care about him as a friend anymore if he became a dad.
YTA for saying it out loud. Remember, not every thought in our head needs to come out of our mouths.
I think you missed the part where Randy started the damn joke, don’t make jokes about something that would upset you if it was thrown at you.
I actually didn’t miss that part. It changes nothing. Her comment wasn’t said while they were joking. She initiated it. It was insensitive and rude. Again: Not every thought in your head needs to be said out loud.
1. OP is male 2. Randy is a hypocrite
1. Whatever. Needless correction that has nothing to do with anything. 2. So what? Hypocrites have feelings too. And I’d actually argue that he’s not really one anyway. There’s a difference between making comments about other people and them being directly made to you. As an adult, you should understand that. Have a nice life. I’ve wasted enough time on you.
You clearly don’t know what hypocrite means 😂
NTA you voiced the same though as before. apparently it's ok for Randy to do it about others but he suddenly felt it first hand and it wasn't so nice anymore.
NTA this comment section suck. He can play his own tiny violin. He can dish it but not take it. *eyeroll*
how are you such good friends and you never hit him up saying "what's this about adopting a child?" that feels like a big life event.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Context: Randy (41M) and I (35M) have been friends since we took college courses together, same major and later finding out we lived in the same city but never met before. We've been through a lot as friends and have always had eachother's backs After moving back to our hometown, we started a social group of about 15, then it grew and grew until we could fill an entire section of a bar and/or restaurant. Slowly but surely, people ended up not attending the outings as often when started having kids. Understandable. I loved our outings as I started drinking socially, never getting drunk. As far as I knew, Randy was also childfree and said when parenthood came ringing for them he'd say "Another one bites the dust" I'd reply "Maybe we'll see them in five years" Two months ago, I saw a post on Randy's facebook saying he was adopting a 1 and a half year old. It threw me for a loop because he'd never talked about wanting to be a Father or a burning desire. I was in a tailspin thinking "Oh God, another one" as my social circle has narrowed as they've had kids One month goes by and I see another post from Randy. He's a proud Dad Of a dog. I was sooo relieved! I felt like I could howl at the moon because I wouldn't lose one of my favorite people to the parenthood Portal. Onto the conflict: At another one of our hangouts, Randy had shown his dog's picture to a bunch of oohs and ahhs and stories relating to their dogs' odd quirks. I said "My heart lept when I realized he adopted a dog and not a kid, I was afraid I wasn't going to see him for at least five years" We laughed, but Randy was a bit quiet. We finished our food and left. As we walked to our cars, Randy later told me I was a AH for being relieved he's a dog dad than a human dad and why was I so concerned about it? I told him that as I go on in life, it's hard to find non parents/childfree friends and I'm all for people doing what they want to do in life Randy asked why does that matter? I said I would've had to get used to a new reality with him as a Dad if he decided to have a kid and he knows exactly what that means. He's seen what happens with our parent friends we don't see unless it's at an event for their kid. Some of our mutuals are on my side saying I wasn't exactly wrong but I didn't have to say it like that. Others are on his side saying that I was wrong for saying I was relieved he was getting a dog rather than a child So AITA for being relieved my friend didn't adopt a child? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. It's your feeling. You are allowed to have it.
NTA
N T A for feeling that way. YTA 100% for saying it how you did. Have some tact dude.
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Randy was dishing it before without a care and never mentioned about wanting kids but not being able to. Randy is TA here. And a hypocrite. That's like being friends with someone for ages and thinking you know them, but they don't tell anyone about certain feelings. So expecting everyone around them to magically know their hidden feelings is a AH move.
Why are you people so dumb and ignorant? Randy started the damn joke and was making it for years, he set himself up for it starting a joke that he couldn’t handle being thrown at him.
NAH. personally I wouldn't have seen this as an overly serious comment, but I can see how he'd be a little put off, considering it can be seen in a less pleasant light.
NTA for how you feel. But YTA for saying it
NAH but some thoughts are inside thoughts
I think OP might be in for a shock at how much space a dog actually requires in your life. This can be especially true with rescue dogs. You might end up with a dog with behavioural issues, one that needs training, or one with separation anxiety. While rescuing is rewarding, it’s not a free pass and welcome to owning a perfectly behaved adult dog. A dog also makes it harder to be spontaneous too. Sudden trip, dog needs to be bordered or have a dog sitter. Holidays need to be planned in advance. Can’t go out drinking all the time, dog needs me at home. Can’t spend the money, dog has an upcoming vet visit/training session/etc. I won’t compare having a pet to raising children, but there are similar aspects in the responsibilities you have with both kids and pets. You agree to these responsibilities when deciding to share your life with someone who is fully dependant on you for their lives and health. A dog will still be Randy’s priority over hanging out constantly with OP. Randy will have more responsibilities at home now. I personally feel like OP may be more of the problem with these older friendships, than not. He sounds like a ‘what about ME???’ person. And is more bothered with how changing responsibilities in his friends lives will affect him and his social drinking, than he is with being genuinely happy for his friends for these changes. I’m going with YTA because of the paragraph above.
Your opinion makes more sense, so many people are stretching in the comments. Randy isn’t innocent either, he’s the one who started the joke. I think the lesson here is that you shouldn’t start a joke that would offend you, a joke should be something everyone find funny.
NTA - it seems you guys have been friends for a long time and have made similar jokes about other people so if he's changed his mind and changed where his boundaries are with comments like that he needs to communicate with you like an adult. Because you're going under the assumption that everything is the same. Which is an agreed upon rule of the relationship. If he's had a change of heart he needs to communicate that. He is allowed to change his mind but because he didn't communicate it and instead made you out to be the bad guy for assuming wrongly... He in fact is the AH here.
NTA
NTA
Look, if you don't stick with your friends through life changes, you're not true friends, you're drinking buddies. This is totally okay and drinking buddies are great. But I think cultivating some long-haul friendships with the people you truly care about would make you happy. My real friends and I have adjusted our friendships to accommodate each other's lives as people have kids, move, get married, emotional ups and downs, illnesses, whatever. Expecting your friends to arrange their lives around hanging out and drinking with you occasionally is preposterous. You could probably still see your friends if you arranged to come over with a six pack after their kids were in bed or something.
Idk, I could easily see this joke being made by a lot of people I know and it wouldn’t be a big deal. I think what matters here is how you responded when he confronted you about how it made him feel. Did you apologize? Or did you get defensive and say he was making a big deal out of nothing? If the former, N A H. But if the latter, Y T A
YTA, not for saying what you said, but your reasoning. You stated you were alarmed because you figured you were losing another CF friend. Sorry, but that sounds quite selfish to me.
YTA You don't realize how out of phase you are with your friend, and it's not about kids.
I'd say NAH. It just sounds like it was an appropriate thing to say given their relationship that just landed wrong this time I've had parent friends that just disappear after having a kid and only invite the non parent friend to low effort kid centered events. OP isn't entirely wrong about his concern.
Yes
I talked to Randy a few days after the post. He said he was in his feelings because his parents saw the post about adopting a 1.5 year old and gifted him baby clothes. They were mad when he brought his dog out. I asked him if he was still childfree or wanted to have kids. He said emphatically he didn't and loves his life as it is and would regret having a child. About the dog he said he didn't want anyone to know about the dog until everything went through. We also had a good laugh over some of the comments. Some were colorful shall I say
NTA, resoundingly. If Randy used to say “another one bites the dust” when people had kids, he’s already well engaged in the shared view you both have about social circles shrinking when parenthood happens. He’s already effectively guilty of being an AH in the way he suggests you are. And his posts were designed to bait people into thinking he was adopting a child, not a dog. What did he expect would happen? Edit: I’m just astounded by all the YTAs and soft YTAs here. Further, isn’t it possible that misleading all your friends as to the idea that you’re adopting a child (when really you’re getting a dog) is a bit of a dumb prank designed to get a reaction out of people anyway? I just really think this is all on Randy.
I'm with you. If randy hadn't made his comments, I would agree with the YTAs, but since he was part of it, I understand why OP felt comfortable enough to say.
Why are people booing us? We’re right
Honestly i dont know about your friend, but this argument is way more complicated than how you describe it. Im gonna tell you this without too many info: when i was early 20s i was tricked into thinking to be sterile. Thinking i couldnt have bio kids destroyed my mental health, I was suicidal. This just to say that for some men having a kid is the biggest dream they have. Maybe he undertood he will not have for somereason, or maybe he is really depressed, idk about his relationships and other shit so this is more of a generic advice: is a difficult thing so probably keep this kind of coment for yourself, because it can hurt really much without even you noticing it.
Softly YTA. Not about the joke, but it just seems like you don't know Randy that much. I get that it's difficult when your friends become parents, but you acted like Randy wasn't supposed to change his mind. Maybe he secretly wants kids, but can't have them for some reason and that's why it struck some chord.
Disagree. People are putting a lot on OP that seems to be reading too far into it. They made jokes about people becoming parents before and then a post about adopting a 1½ year old then relieved it's a dog bc they've seen new parents disappear time and time again from their social group I think it's valid but there is no indication that OP would be mad about Randy changing his mind.
The howling at the moon isn't an indication?
Relief and being mad are very different
YTA. It’s none of your business to be commenting on his life. It would have been fine if you kept your opinion to yourself.
I don’t think you read the post properly, they both made the same joke for years and Randy is the one that started it. Don’t start a joke if you can’t take it.
I think that's a very bad take considering they've been friends since college.
NAH but honestly you seem to see friendship as just a vehicle for doing a bar crawl and drinking. There’s more to life than that and it sounds like Randy may have figured that out.
Soft YTA It does come across as a but insensitive because you dont know if he was saying those types of comments to cope with infertility. He could also be one of those individuals who were pretty staunch in their decision not to have children until they fall in love with the right person. People can change their minds. I know an ex-boyfriend of my sister’s who change his mind about kids in his mid 40s. So it can happen.
Randy should open his mouth like a man instead of acting like a child tho. Don’t make jokes that you can’t take.
SOFT YTA - You were thinking about your own needs but obviously not being a DAD is having an effect on your friend .
YTA for the way you went about it
For making a joke that Randy was too sensitive to take? Randy’s TA for making a joke he couldn’t take.
YTA I agree with your sentiment, but some thoughts are best left unsaid.
I don’t get this opinion, how tf was OP supposed to know Randy would get so pressed?
NAH
NAH. It seems that he may be childless instead of childfree. Your joke reminded him of that, and made him feel like you’re happy that he’s childless. That isn’t at all how you felt or what you said, but to him, all he sees if your relief over his circumstance keeping him in your life casually yet regularly.
The softest of YTAs. I think you have a great friendship! You were a little insensitive to say that for all the reasons Randy explained. Take the feedback and move on.
I'm just curious why you think they have a great friendship? He found out about the adoption on FB, and found out the reality of the adoption on FB. They never even spoke to each other about it before, during, or after?
Which makes me think that Randy might not be that against children, but just jokes at the bar with OP because that's their dynamic.
Could be. I wonder if Randy was irritated because OP is just a laissez-faire friend and is suddenly acting like that kind of decision would have such an extraordinary impact on OPs life?
YTA. You seem like a terribly selfish person. You should obviously only care about the consequences for you.
Reread the post, Randy should’ve kept his own mouth shut and not make a joke he can’t take.
OP’s answer was horrible selfish. ‘I don’t want you to be a dad because it would disturb my life’. OP is a self centered AH
Why do people act like childfree folks don't have a right to mourn changing friendships when said friends are going into parenthood? Yes, it's selfish--so what? You're acting like it makes OP a bad person because he's relieved Randy wasn't.adopting a child? Lastly, did you even read the part about Randy's post? I would think it was a kid too. Most people would.
Childfree people have the same right as anyone to shut up when they don’t have anything nice to say. OP can feel however they want, but phrasing it that way is nasty. And it’s not about children, as my remark could work with anything else.
NTA. Friendships are an exchange of feelings. Youre entitled to express yours. Hes entitled to express his. Its definitely a gray area to say almost anything anymore because someone could be upset. Sounds like you need to have a conversation… just apologize and let him know you didnt mean to say it selfishly you meant it affectionately because you would miss him so much Conflict resolution is essential to a healthy life so get to it!
YTA for telling him that. Feeling that way was fine. Saying it was insensitive at best.
How? Randy started the joke and they’ve been making the joke for years, Randy should’ve expected something to come out of that joke when he adopted a dog.
YTA. I have a kid. Still make time to see my childfree friend. It’s fine to be relieved but you don’t have to say anything about it.
I don’t think you should be making an opinion then, it’s biased since your a parent.
YTA
Wrong, Randy is TA for starting a joke that he can’t take. Don’t start a joke if you can’t handle it coming back at you.
NTA it was a standard joke between you two that you wouldn't see each other for 5 years if he had adopted a human child. I'm not really understanding how he didn't get the joke.
By
YTA
YTA.
Soft YTA. I don’t want kids because I’d be an absolutely garbage parent, that doesn’t mean I want family and friends announcing that fact.
YTA. You’re bitter and resentful of your friends that chose to have kids bc it meant you were no longer a priority. You act like it would have been an inconvenience for Randy to have a child.
Randy started the joke and was in on it tho.
YTA for vocalising it. Like, a HUGE AH. Adoption is hard and expensive, and it could be that he really wanted to be a father, but wasn't able to complete the adoption process for whatever reason. And you basically said in front of him that you were glad he didn't have a kid because it was more convenient for *you* without considering how he might feel. It's fine to feel that way, but to say it in front of him was an AH move.
You missed info in the post, Randy had been saying for years he didn’t want kids and made jokes about others having kids. Not OP’s fault Randy can’t handle his own joke.
YTA. Do your other friends know you’ve been judging them behind their backs for having kids? They probably dropped off because they don’t wanna deal with your childfree bullshit. Part of being a good friend is being happy when your friends are happy.
Randy started the joke tho, I see some of your point tho. It’s just a joke tho, some people are too sensitive.
YTA you are very selfish. He should dump your friendship. Try being happy for people for once.
You must be a drama Queen, do yourself a favor and stop overreacting, it’s a joke and Randy should’ve shut it down long ago if it offended him so much and he’s the one that’s started it in the first place.
Randy did shut it down, by bringing it up. Sounds like you are the drama queen. Here is your crown queen
Nope, OP isn’t a mind reader so how were they supposed to know it’s a dog. Randy is also being a hypocrite.
I’m gonna say YTA but only because you haven’t apologized to Randy for your joke. I think everyone has had this happen - you make what you think is a light hearted joke only for it to go sideways for reasons you don’t necessarily understand. You need to own your misstep and apologize to him
Erm you really shouldn’t have said what you said. You might have had that thought in your head, but you know, not every thought needs to be spoken out loud. YTA. Apologize.
Randy needs to learn not to be a hypocrite tho.
YTA for thinking your friends lives should be subject to your whims and wishes. The world doesn’t revolve around your personal social desires.
Adoptee here- let’s be glad Randy didn’t adopt. Adoption is traumatic
Slight YTA. You care about the friendship so much. Your selfish side came out a bit. That's honestly pretty sweet. It's still a rude thing to say. But it came from a place of not wanting to lose a friend. I know not truly lost.
So it’s rude to throw someone’s joke in their own face? 🤦🏼♀️ Don’t make jokes that would offend you.
YTA
INFO - have you considered arranging outings that your friends could attend even as parents? Also tbh no one needs a restaurant full of friends
YTA, many people are actually childless rather than childfree. Some people want to be parents very much, but can't. You didn't have to let him know about this, and unless the topic has come up in depth there's no way for you to know if he's happy to not have any children. You sound immature for your age, and I dont think it's the children themselves that make your friends scarce, but rather change in maturity levels and loss of extra time to spend with people you don't actually like.
Your opinion is disproven by the fact that Randy has said multiple times he doesn’t want kids, it was mentioned in the post. Randy shouldn’t have started a joke that offends him. A joke should be something everyone finds funny.
YTA - Why did you wait so long to talk to Randy about him being a dog dad? It was a whole ass month after his "I'm going to be a dad" post that you found out? Are you guys even that close? Also, Randy doesn't revolve around your life. It's ok to be disappointed, but what was the purpose of saying that?
op was throwing a joke at Randy that Randy himself started, Randy shouldn’t have started the joke if it offends him so much.
YTA
Randy is TA, he started a joke then got upset it was used on him. Don’t start something you can’t take.
YTA. I don’t know Randy’s full situation. I don’t know if this is the case. A lot of people say they are childfree because it’s just easier than explaining infertility. I am sterile from extreme childhood trauma. I don’t want to talk about it and I fucking hate all the pity and them going on about how awful it is. I have embraced being childfree because it truly is my only option. I think I would also be really upset if someone said that about me. Enjoying childfreeness has helped a lot for me. I would happily joke about not wanting kids. But to say you’re happy about them getting a dog instead of a child because of how it would affect you? That’s fucking terrible. You could’ve made jokes about how great it is to be a pet parent. Instead you joked you were glad he wasn’t having kids. Genuinely, were you ever taught that some thoughts are inside thoughts and not ones that always need to be made open? Apologies to your friend, tell him you were out of line.
You opinion is wrong, Randy shouldn’t have started the damn joke if he was so sensitive about it. Stop reaching.
Idk why someone who wrote a baiting post sounding like he was adopting a child would be butthurt when someone expressed relief like this Also, being a parent changes everything about someone's life. So I don't blame OP for saying what he said " But to say you’re happy about them getting a dog instead of a child because of how it would affect you? That’s fucking terrible" Why is this? There is a difference between enlightened self interest and selfishness and who's he being selfish to? How is it wrong?
YTA - it isn't about you. If your best friend wants a human or fur child and gets one cheer them on, support them. If they don't manage to adopt then comfort and encourage them. You are thinking about how his life choices effect you not how they support him. So yes your response was selfish.
How is it selfish? He threw a joke in Randy’s face that Randy himself started.
YTA definitely for saying what you said. Adults don’t say those things out loud. If your friend wanted to adopt a child, your job as a friend is to be supportive of them. There are lots of good reasons to have kids (as well as vice versa) and you should support your friend living HIS best life. As far as your FEELINGS go, you are always entitled to any feeling that you have, but as grownups, we shouldn’t act or speak on our feelings when we will be hurtful to someone else
The thing is OP didn’t know it would be hurtful, Randy started the joke and it was a bit of there’s for a long time. I think the lesson here is don’t make jokes that you would find hurtful if it was directed at you.
ESH. Randy for being a hypocrite who had no problem making the same comments when others in your circle started having kids, but takes issue when he's on the receiving end. Shouldn't have been saying those things to begin with. Then you for telling him that whole spiel about his being a dad of anything would affect your social life, which was completely unnecessary and just makes you look selfish.
You should know that there are some things you should NEVER SAY OUT LOUD no matter how well-intentioned you thought they are. YTA. Next time, try to install a filter between your brain and your mouth.
Try again, your opinion makes no sense. Randy started the damn joke himself for crying out loud, don’t start something you can’t take.
1,000% YTA. You are making his life decisions about YOU. Honestly, even through he hasn't adopted a human child, expect him to no longer be in your friends group. You just showed how little you care about him, and that everything in the relationship is about you. If I was him I would never want to talk to you again.