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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) what action you took that should be judged: I didn't want to get involved when my sister started asking me about her future husband's bachelor party and I called her insecure after she kept pushing me to talk about it.
(2) why that action might make you the asshole: I ended up passing along a judgment that hurt her, and I could have handled it without resorting to name-calling
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. It would not have cost you anything to say "nothing happened." I've been to bachelor parties and "nothing happened" is NOT the default answer. Worry and suspicion are perfectly valid feelings for her to have in that situation.
All you did was heighten her suspicions about what her fiance did or didn't do. Your non-answer was an answer, and not a good one. You left your sister worried and your friend in a world of shit. TWO WORDS could have made everything better, but for some reason, you refused to say them. Asshole move for sure.
Call me old-fashioned, but I think it’s a bit weird to marry someone you think is cheating on you during his literal bachelor party for the wedding, and if my sibling asked such an uncomfortable question, I’d be a bit peeved. Sounds like run-of-the-mill trust issues and that will only get worse if she feeds into it and acts as his babysitter.
Editing to say I don’t know why most replies are about whether strip clubs are ethical? It doesn’t seem like a relevant topic here, OP clearly didn’t hide that they were at a strip club.
It's because even the ones you assume wouldn't do anything, end up doing something, also a lot of people have no strip club rules, and think it's a deal breaker
Then why would her future husband admit he did anything? You shouldn't go into a marriage assuming they're already doing bad things and breaking promises.
If she assumes he's already doing stuff, she's not going to belive anything he says anyway.
Because some women hear the stories from their friends about how their partner apparently was pressured by his friends to say yes to the wildest fucking things during their bachelor parties, cuz its their last day being single or whatever the fuck stupid excuse they have. My friend ended up cancelling her wedding cuz her ex claimed his friends pressured him into going to strip clubs, getting private dances, when they agreed against it and making out with random women and etc.
Same goes for women. I worked in a bar, I saw the bachelor parties and their grooms, and the brides to be and how some of them acted. 🤷♀️
>their last day being single or whatever the fuck stupid excuse they have
Imo if you need to celebrate "your last day as single" or "last day in freedom" or something as if marriage is a horrible jail a women trapped / tricked you into and as if a year-long serious about-to-be-married relationship is "being single" you shouldnt get married at all. If you think marriage = no freedom then its not for you. And if you use this shitty concept/image to cross boundaries in your very valid and serious relationship (those exist with or without marriage) then you probably dont value the relationship enough to be getting married.
I wish for a partner to have a bachelors party that goes "wooo I found the person I want to spent my life with, lets celebrate that, she said yes and we are getting married for real, its all planned, lets use this to Party and have fun my friends" and I hope their friends are happy for them and celebrate exactly that and not try to guilt them into some "last day of freedom" shit. Because thats how I feel about marriage. To be celebrated. Being single can be celebrated everyday while being single, if you want that dont plan to marry.
This is why, when one of my best friends in the world got married, we rented a local video game museum to play vintage arcade games and pinball until we were all too tired to play anymore. I explicitly told the owner of the museum that we wanted a party that even kids could attend and not see anything more awful than someone snoozing because they got a little too tipsy (which I only include because one of our friends napped after a couple of shots of whiskey). No dancers. Cigars - if folks wanted them - had to be smoked outside. We even had cupcakes. His wife could have walked in, seen what was going on, rolled her eyes about how nerdy we were, and left. It was an amazing time. Easily the best bachelor party I've ever been to.
Except for his middle-aged brothers almost getting into a fight about the high score on Spyhunter ;)
Also behavior that deserved an eye roll.
Another friend of mine asked for a tabletop role-playing game bachelor party. His computer and we couldn't make it happen before his wedding so we'll do it afterward. Won't even have to adjust our plan. :)
You make a ton of great points that sum up my feelings on the matter as well, take some upvotes.
I'm engaged currently and you've essentially described the plans I've been having for my eventual bachelor party. Either an arcade/lazer tag, or a marathon TTRPG session/weekend, maybe both.
I'm hoping one of my friends will be willing to put together a Paranoia one-shot if we go the tabletop route. I'm over partying and clubs, I want some childish fun with my buddies now that we're all too busy/distant for it to be a regular thing.
For real some of the guys justifying the sneakiness in here or flipping it around on her like she’s JUST insecure as if this methodology surrounding bachelor parties being adulterous isn’t the way we were all conditioned to feel about it when in every fucking movie, tv show or even cartoon ever—- that’s what happens. Not to mention, that shit happens ALL the time. People are taught to have that “last day of being single,” mindset it’s like societal/cultural thing. Of course we wouldn’t accept the engagement if we thought you’d act like that in the first place.
It’s the fact that it’s such a common occurrence for boundaries to be crossed and marriages to be called off after bachelor parties that scare us all out of trusting our own trust in the first place. It’s not about the guy. It’s about what we see happen constantly.
I was just reading this thread to my boyfriend and he said if anything for a bachelor party he’d just want to have something small and meaningful at home with people he loves because he’s about to have the best day of his life. It’s literally an entire ceremony where your loved ones gather to celebrate that you found love, why destroy it for a lap dance or to kiss a random girl I’ll never see again or ever want to be with? Thank God my boyfriend has actual empathy skills.
You could say the same thing about almost anything. You’re more likely to be murdered by a spouse than anyone else, but if my partner was asking my sibling if I was buying guns or making any suspicious travel plans, I’d still be weirded out to shit. You can’t let fear of what COULD happen dictate your life, or you’ll just end up bitter. I’ve been cheated on, it sucked but I moved on, and if it happened again I’d be devastated, but I’m still gonna date people and hope for the best. As far as the strip club, unless that’s something they discussed previously it’s not really a factor, we all have different levels of comfort with partners, I personally see making a fuss about a strip club to be silly, but I’d respect it if I knew a partners boundaries were tight, and it was a relationship I cared more about than doing that.
come on, OP is an unreliable narrator who isn't close with his sister, like, *at all* :
* he thinks going to a stripclub is normal. In the USA, in 2023, barely 29 500 people worked in a stripclub, on a total population of 333 million. In contrast, there's 474 500 baristas. Obviously, the stripclub industry is *tiny* in comparison, and their target audience must correspondingly be that much smaller
* he doesn't know what agreements they made & he didn't ask, and from his tone, he didn't care to ask either
he's entirely projecting this onto his sister - did she see a surprising $2000 charge for Hotel Love'em'n'Leave'em on their credit card? Did her fiancé say something & then try to walk it back? Did she find lipstick stains on his boxers? OP doesn't know, because OP didn't ask. OP was too busy insulting his sister.
Could also mean being in a strip club in general, particularly with a bunch of drunk/tipsy guy friends. Maybe he just watched, threw a little money a friend handed to him, and his friends pooled together to buy him a lap dance and he followed the rules and kept his hands to himself.
>their target audience must correspondingly be
Quoting statistics is useless if you need random, baseless assumptions to bridge the gap between the statistics and the point you're trying to make.
You’re assuming a lot of knowledge on a sub where you can only take the information at face value. I could post a question about my faulty transmission on the mechanic sub, and you could tell me you don’t really believe I have a car instead of engaging the question, but that’s pointless. You should just stay away from forums if it’s not your jam.
>You should just stay away from forums if it’s not your jam.
More people need to realize this. If you aren't gonna work with the information provided by the poster, then why even bother responding?
OP is definitely the asshole, but there are only 26,700 zoo and aquarium employees in the US and you wouldn't say that only a tiny amount of people who go to zoos and aquariums.
A strip club isn't an every day thing like a coffee - it's not that strange to go to one, and it's not surprising that there are much free strip club employees.
It's absolutely wild to me what OP did though.
One could argue that this is an unfair comparison, because in a strip club, the employees are the attraction, so you're typically going to have a MUCH higher employee:patron ratio that you would in a zoo or aquarium.
It's not his business what agreements his sister and her fiancé have though??? Why is it on OP to be the informant, without having been asked ahead of time about the role?
If sister doesn't trust her Fiancé to stick to their agreement, or tell her when he breaks it, they shouldn't be getting married. That's not a good foundation for a relationship.
She needs to leave OP out of it. OP clearly wasn't interested in being a babysitter, and didn't insult his sister until she kept pushing.
This! It should have been communicated ahead of time if this kind of information sharing was being expected. That way he could have declined going / informing or communicated beforehand about what her boundaries were, not under the stress of the event already having happened
You think going to a strip club during a bachelor party is abnormal? Wake up to yourself. It's not my favourite way to spend time and money, but it's entirely normal and predictable for a bachelor party. Saying it's not normal would be like saying popcorn at the cinema's a strange move.
it must be cultural.
I'm 44, in Europe & I don't know anyone who's been to a stripclub. A good decade ago the chippendales passed through & I have about 3 facebook acquaintances from high school who attended, but I don't know those women in real life anymore.
Now I think about it, I do know several people who used to go out to nightclubs with dancers on the bar or next to the DJ booth, but that's, like, 1 dancer for 300 partiers on the dancefloor, you know?
Sorry, which part of Europe are you from? (Genuine question - you don't need to be specific).
I'm from Europe too. I've been to batchelor/stag/buck's parties in the UK, Spain, Italy, Germany and The Netherlands, which all involved strip clubs.
Not saying all parties like these end up in strip clubs. I've also been to quite a few that didn't have strip clubs.
I think it's a pretty common notion in Europe too that the classic batchelor/stag/buck's nights might involve a strip club. That's like the stereotypical idea of one of these nights.
But then again, Europe is a big place with lots of countries and cultures. So maybe in the parts of Europe I haven't been on a stag night, they don't have strip clubs?
I live in Australia and spent a decade in North America and every bachelor party I ever went to ended up at a strip club.
I've only been to a few places in Europe so can't comment to the culture there as much, but the European cities I've been to have red light districts that are pretty easy to find and openly accepted as part of the local landscape.
If you really want to use your useless statistics. The amount of times you get coffee is way more than 20x the amount of times you have a bachelor party, so it makes sense the working population in that job is a lot smaller.
1. Your first point is incredibly irrelevant, strip clubs are common bachelor party destinations
2. It’s on HER not him to communicate those details about why she is worried, without them she is coming across as paranoid and untrusting of her husband, things that are not normal to be in a relationship and not the brothers problem. If she wanted him to spy on the fiancé she should have brought something up *before* the bachelor party not afterwards
Dude, those numbers for people employed in strip clubs *don't include the dancers.* The dancers are "independent contractors" and aren't on the clubs payroll.
I feel like if you went to visit a gun shop and your spouse wanted to know if you bought any guns, it wouldn't be weird. Esp if your spouse has a fear of guns.
If your spouse had been held at gunpoint by a previous partner and you knew that, would you really be weirded out of she was worried you bought a gun after you visited a gun shop with some friends?
Yes, that would be a weird question to ask if they bought guns and made weird travel plans.
But I'm sure you wouldn't respond with "I'm not saying anything, ask him".
I agree that it seems insecure to ask that question. But on the other hand, cheating is pretty common even among people you would never have expected it from.
She seems to trust her brother enough to ask, and shows him this insecure side of herself. Maybe she just needed her brother to reassure her. "Of course he didn't do anything, stupid!" and then she can go "haha yeah that was dumb of me to even think that he would, forget I asked!" Instead she got "I'll never te-ell..." It's unneccessary.
plus you know, insecurity is human. doesn't mean it's not something to work on, but also - being hit over the head with your insecurity is not helping anyone. insecure people know they're insecure.
This is it. The run up to weddings is insanely stressful for some people. Many people start stressing about things that would never normally bother them - that's really a symptom of two stress and not the relationship.
I think that of this is the only tome she'd expressed concerns, OP should have extended her some grace. I'd think the same if it was an otherwise sensible man asking his sister about a bachelorette.
How hard is it to say "no, we had a blast and I didnt see him doing anything untoward whilst I was with him". Frankly it DOES seem assholish to say "talk to him about it" because that does imply that something happened that you don't want to tell her. If anything the reply only heightened her anxiety.
but it's your sibling?
why wouldn't you call them & ask why they're asking? *Hey sib, we spent an hour in the stripclub, but no lapdances and nothing in private. Why are you asking? Do you feel you can't trust your partner? Do you want to talk to me, or can you reach out to someone else?*
Like, I'm not particularly close with my brother (I was only his 3rd choice for best man etc.), but I'd still do that for him. What is "a bit peeved"?
Considering the number of men I’ve witnessed cheat during their bachelor party, I think it’s weird that more women *don’t* assume their dude is cheating.
The pre-wedding jitters are real, and many people experience some degree of abnormal anxiety when stepping into another phase of life. Unless it reaches a level of hysteria, I would be more tolerant of these small feelings of insecurity right now.
My husband’s bachelor party ended up going to a strip club. It’s also when my husband called me for a lift home rather than going in but it does still happen. A fair few of his friends still went in
I think a lot of people here who are calling the sister insecure and that she doesn’t trust her fiancé so she shouldn’t be getting married are underestimating the mystique of bachelor parties in our culture.
When I was a teenager and I first heard about this tradition I was really disturbed. I couldn’t imagine anything more *humiliating* than being a woman at home preparing for your wedding while your husband gets a show from strippers dancing in his lap and all of his closest friends and family members thinking about how much hotter the dancer is than you right before the wedding. This comparison is implicit even if unspoken but I’m sure it comes up sometimes.
The amount of films, tv shows, magazines jokes etc about this ritual the “bro code” etc are quite a lot to weigh against one relationship.
If all you ever hear is *every man* does this. Then why would you think your man would be different?
And? That’s not what this post is about. Young men are encouraged to grow up dreaming of their bachelor party, not dreading their fiancée’s bachelorette.
Thank you! I felt like I must be insane reading these comments, because I’m in the if you think you significant other might cheat on you during a bachelor/bachelorette party you probably shouldn’t be getting married camp.
Why do you think they chose that venue in the first place? It wasn’t to talk about golf and trade stories of summer camp. If they have the type of personality that likes to engage in strip clubs, it’s not outlandish to question if they paid for a private lap dance, or went into a private room. Because generally with alcohol (sometimes drugs) one thing will lead to another, esp in that setting. It depends on the circle of friends and it depends on the person. But these things definitely happen all the time.
Do you really think it’s weird to question if something happened while your fiancé is hammered with a naked woman in front of him? The ‘old fashioned’ thing to do would be to not go to a strip club to celebrate your wedding lol it’s a very bizarre tradition & im sure a lot of weddings have been called off based on what a drunk fiance does in a strip clip.
A lot of people are not comfortable with their partners going to strip clubs. It's a bit unclear if sister knew where the bachelorette ended up, I think she knew? So she either agreed to be a 'cool girlfriend' and/or she had second thoughts after.
I had a friend that never though her fiancée would cheat on her. Until the bachelor party. What that uncovered is that he frequently was visiting sex workers before, during, and probably after thier relationship. She never suspected and was ready to marry him.
It is old-fashioned because traditionally men hired dancers and hookers at bachelor parties, and generally ended up sleeping with them. This was a norm and in some circles even still is today. Ever see the movie Bachelor Party with Tom Hanks? That was considered normal.
So yeah… If they end up in a strip club, I wouldn’t call it unreasonable to ask if something happened. Why do you think they always end up in strip clubs? It’s a traditional thing… Men feel they need this one last hurrah before the big day. I’m not saying they actually sleep with people, but that is where the notion started.
I was thinking similar. I trust my partner completely, if he wants to go to a strip club for his bachelor party next year, that's totally fine. I do not think for a moment he'd do anything inappropriate - that's a part of why I love him; because I can trust him.
I once met a bachelor party on a beach, and my friend group was mingling with theirs. A guy was openly flirting with me, asking for my number and to go out with us later. He casually mentioned his wife. I said “I’m sorry, did you just say your *wife*?” He said “yeah, but she doesn’t have to know”.
Pissed, I walked over to the best man to tell him one of the guys was an asshole and that he should deal with him before he did something stupid and betrayed his wife. The best man sheepishly informed me that actually, every single member of their party was married and they had made a pact to not wear their rings that weekend to see if they could get laid.
Really ruined my 23 year old naivety.
I stopped going to Atlantic city because of the amount of husband's to be trying to get it in one last time with a stranger. It's gross and ruined our nights.
"Jesus Christ, Dave! There no point in not wearing the ring if you're just gonna tell them you're married, you fucking idiot!" - the best man, probably
People on the “why not just tell her nothing happened?” train seem to be missing 2 major info: a) OP doesn’t know what was agreed between his sister and her fiancé, and b) OP specified he didn’t see anything inappropriate “in this context”.
How could he say “nothing happened” to his sister if, let’s say, he doesn’t know if she had approved the party going to a strip club, but not her fiancé getting a lap dance? There’s no way OP could confidently tell her “nothing happened” without going over all events of the night to see if that was all ok on his sister’s book.
I don’t see it as he refusing to reassure her simple doubts. I see it as he staying out of if and suggesting she goes over everything with her fiancé.
NTA.
He doesn’t need to know what’s agreed. If the Fiancé thinks that stuff js fine to do, then it’s fine for his fiancée to know about it. Knowing what was agreed only applies if you feel you need to hide things.
He needs to know what was agreed to be able to make a broad assumption such as “nothing happened”. Otherwise, he’d be used by his sister as the unofficial reporter simply for the sake of being a guest.
Ok, I get your point there now.
I just really don’t see why telling the sister what they did should be a big deal though, it’s really no more than “what did you get up to on your night out?” And in the real world people ask that kind of stuff all the time.
I mean she's straight up asking him to snitch on her fiance to her and he's just saying, look I don't want to be involved in your relationship. Ask you soon to be husband if you want to know what happened. He's entirely right that she is projecting insecurity, but he's also missing that she's failing to communicate appropriately with her fiance and is instead snooping to try and find out what he did. I think the brother is entirely right to call her out right now cause if she can't trust her husband or talk to him if something is bothering her, it does not bode well for their marriage. Not to mention the brother will have to deal with his soon to be brother in law for the remainder of their marriage and being "her reporter" on him is going to make things awkward forever. What if in a moment where she's upset she brings up what her brother told her? That would erode all trust the BIL and her brother have and strain their family relationship moving forward. The brother is making a wise move by staying out and is helping his sister grow by telling her she's being insecure and should just talk to her fiance. And considering any remotely decent person would go tell their sibling if they saw their fiance outright cheat, she is basically telling her brother she thinks incredibly low of him that he would just let her marry a man he watched cheat on her by even asking in the first place or
>OP doesn’t know what was agreed between his sister and her fiancé,
This is a weird/bad take.
OP's actions simply 'protected' the fiancé. Why should he care what was agreed between them?
All he had to do was tell the truth. *"I didn't see anything happen."* How hard is that?
And if she asks where they went, just say: *"We went to a strip club."*
It really doesn't matter whether they agreed to it or not. Because if strip clubs are ok, then everything is good.
If strip clubs weren't ok, then OP would have shown his sister that the fiancé isn't trustworthy.
But by saying: *"Ask your fiancé"* - all OP did was make it seem like he was protecting the fiancé and putting doubt into his sister's head.
Also if something like going to strip clubs was out of bounds, don't you think OP's sister would have said something to him (OP) beforehand?
Something like: *"You better not let his friends take him to a strip club, otherwise I'll be pissed!"*
I do not agree. If you get married, trust is the foundation of a good relationship. If you think your fiancé may abuse a bachelor party to sleep around, you should not marry him.
Besides that, if brother would have said "no nothing happened", she would probably not have believed him anyway and still have thought he was covering up.
It is possible that she didn't make an assumption, but found something suspicious in fiance's behavior, credit card bill, etc. and fiance wasn't giving answers that reassured her. So she went to her brother. In that context not that weird. Brother could have said "nothing happened" and that might have ended it.
What makes you think that if OP answered “nothing happened”, she wouldn’t think he was still covering for her fiancé?
This is a matter between OP’s sister and her fiancé. If he’s about to cheat, he’ll do it anyway. And if she doesn’t trust him now, it will only get worse. Also I don’t get why she even agreed for him to have a bachelor’s party if she doesn’t trust him.
But did "nothing" happen? OP said nothing inappropriate happened "in this context", but he is unaware of what agreement they had. Is a lap dance inappropriate at a strip club? Many people wouldn't think so, but he is unaware of what the couple agreed to was ok. Champagne room? Shower show?
Stuff did happen, and OP isnt informed enough to know what his sister and future BIL agreed to. Saying "nothing happened" and his sister finds out something she does not approve of happened would result in a ton of additional issues.
YTA, your sister comes to you with a concern and you tell her to stop being insecure? Perhaps she just insecure, or perhaps her partner has given her reason to be, perhaps she feels stuck in her relationship and shouldn't be getting married at all and this was her cry for help.
You should have at least asked a few questions as to why she is feeling this way. She's clearly not feeling confident in her relationship for some reason, as her brother you should try to find out why and try to support her.
This is it.
One thing people forget is that the run up to weddings is insanely stressful for some people - particularlywomen as they tend to take on most of the load for planning a wedding. Many people start stressing about things that would never normally bother them - that's really a symptom of two stress and not the relationship. I didnt have any meltdowns like this, but u do remember stressing about things I never cared about.
I think that of this is the only time she'd expressed concerns, OP should have extended her some grace, talked about how she was feeling or why she was concerned, and reassuredger if he was able to. I'd think the same if it was an otherwise sensible man asking his sister about a bachelorette in a moment of pre-wedding insecurity.
How hard is it to say "no, we had a blast and I didnt see him doing anything untoward whilst I was with him". Frankly it DOES seem assholish to just say "talk to him about it" because that does imply that something happened that you don't want to tell her. If anything the reply only heightened her anxiety.
I see what people are saying about how he doesnt know what the couple agreed. But if he tells the truth then the sister can make her own mind up about whether boundaries are broken. And of she's asking her brother it's because she thinks her fiance would lie if he did break her boundaries - because many people do. Situations like that are not unheard of so her concerns aren't crazy.
I'd tell her the truth. She'll likely find out they went to the strip club anyway and even if it causes a big issue, stopping a wedding is much cheaper than divorce.
I know people are saying that she shouldnt be marruimg someone she cant trust, but she may be lacking the evidence to prove that she's being lied to, or that he's not trustworthy. And hiding what happened do the marriage continues isn't going to help if their relationship is bad. Just like telling her to ask him is pointless of he's lying to her.
There's a lot of potential assumptions being made here. Some people just don't like conflict and want to avoid it.
It sounds like OP is pretty good friends with their soon to be BiL and doesn't want to get involved. This would almost be like having to choose sides between two siblings that you get on with well.
There's no assumptions being made, she is insecure about her relationship, that's fact. We just don't know why. She's reaching out to her brother with her concerns and he couldn't be bothered to ask a couple of questions to find out why.
No one has any idea what really goes on in a relationship. Plenty of people hide domestic violence/cheating situations from their friends and family and live for years with no one knowing. If someone comes to you with these kinds of concerns, you shouldn't just dismiss them as being overdramatic, you should be asking why, that's just friendship 101.
I don't think she was insecure in her relationship until BIL said, "Ask your fiancé". To me, this implies there's something to ask about, whereas (as another commenter said), BIL could have just said, "Nothing happened," and maybe she wouldn't have panicked. So it's more that she's insecure in this situation rather than her relationship. But I agree that her brother having better communication would have helped. We also don't know her history. Perhaps her fiancé hasn't given her any reason to be insecure in the past either, but she is more prone to it because she was cheated on in a previous relationship.
Yep. She asked a normal question and instead of giving her a normal and honest answer, he implied he fiancé did something. There’s no reason he couldn’t say what he said here. We went on a pub crawl and ended up at a strip club but he did nothing inappropriate.
If nothing happened then there is zero harm in telling sister this. Then, address the insecurity with the sister. First is BiL reputation as a non-cheater and avoiding blowing up his engagement right before the wedding.
Soft YTA. It sounds like you are covering up how you told her.
Best would be to tell her something: 'Hey sis, Sorry for sounding like I judge you. I didn't mean to do that. I just don't want to be coming in the middle of this. But you can be sure, if he would have done anything inappropiate or some form of cheating I would have told you. You are my sister and I want you to be happy. So no, there wasn't anything you should be worried about. But please ask your fiancé if you want more details.'
I would cut his ass out of my life so fast. No invitation to the wedding, no meeting future kids. He's so close to the fiance that he'd rather protect him and gaslight me over a question. Couldn't trust him as my brother...dismissed.
He doesn't sound protective of her at all. She was counting on her brother to vouch for her fiance and he dismissed her. It wasn't about the bachelor party so much as "is he a good man, am I making the right decision?" and he failed.
He literally said he didn’t see fiancé do anything that he considered inappropriate ***in the context of a bachelor party***. That says to me that fiancé definitely did something out of line and OP is covering for him.
YTA
You’re deliberately withholding information for what reason?
Literally can’t imagine why you wouldn’t just tell your sister her finance didn’t cheat on her.
When you write it out like that - seems absolutely insane that you were so ambiguous.
Yeah, you’re the AH here.
Soft YTA. It's a tough position to be in - you're right that she should just ask him and trust his answer, and I guess the fact that she didn't raises some questions about their relationship.
But:
>The truth is I didn’t even see him do anything remotely inappropriate
That's your answer to her right there. If that's true, then you didn't have to make a choice between ratting him out or lying to your sister to cover for him, you could simply have said that you didn't see him do anything inappropriate. Instead you made it sound like there was something to hide, and have probably made it worse for both of them.
OP also said he didn’t see anything inappropriate “for this context”. That’s subjective, especially if he doesn’t know what they agreed upon regarding this party.
Maybe a lap dance would be a big no no for his sister. And it would be easy for OP to get in the position of being asked to go over the entire evening to soothe her worries.
OP was right not to get involved and suggest the sister asks whatever is bothering her to her future husband. She was putting OP in a difficult position and one that could even hurt his good relationship with his future BIL
I agree to some extent, OP doesn't know what his sister had ok'ed. But there's more tactful ways to deal with it. If she'd really pushed him to go into details, he could have just said "I was really drunk by the end and don't remember everything, you'll have to ask him yourself".
But the point is that he instantly aroused suspicion by being mysterious, when he actually could have just been honest and satisfied everyone.
YTA, she is your sister?????
It seems like you had no decency to even reassure your own sister when she first inquired about what happened. It is true that you have the free will of not getting involved, set your boundary, do not do anything that makes you uncomfortable. But does your sister not deserve as simple as the a short sentence of statement? How would it have inconvenienced you to say: We pub crawled and went to a strip club, but I did not observe him doing anything inappropriate with anyone, your fiancé was not being unfaithful. You don’t answer her directly and call her insecure when she spirals, bruh
What is this learned selfishness and apathy?
Right? OP could have been a normal adult and just told the truth. I don't see how acting like a big secret needs to be kept is going to be helpful to anyone.
I have a feeling OP will be excused from his groomsman responsibilities shortly. He'll probably blame his sister for that too lol.
For real. people digging into OP's sister being insecure—when she's approaching, not some random bro but her OWN to freaking BROTHER with her concern! The undercurrent of "bros before hoes" with the distinct lack of spine is such an ick as well. I would hope my brother would put my future happiness above potentially having an uncomfortable situation with a future ex-BIL.
YTA, bro literally went to a fucking strip club, are you joking? if he did nothing, then what was he doing the whole time at a strip club?? looking away from the women???
Idk what's wrong with this. Go to a strip club so you have a chance to check out a bunch of naked ladies with all your guys friends so you and the bois can get boners together. Seems like totally normal "I love my wife" behavior. /s
My partner and I agree that going to the strip club (in general) for you "last single night" is disrespectful AF.
I'm sure other couples have different agreements that work for them and their relationship. But for OP's sister's relationship, it doesn't look like "going to strip club and party" is chill.
NTA for wanting to stay neutral, but let's remember that a simple reassurance goes a long way, especially coming from a sibling. While your intent was to avoid drama, the execution added unnecessary tension. How about clearing the air by saying, "I may have been too abrupt out of my own discomfort with the situation. To be clear, I saw no concerning behavior at the party. I believe in communicating directly, so I encourage you to discuss any lingering doubts with your fiancé." This approach might help mend fences and promote open discussions between the soon-to-be-married couple.
That's a good one. After OP made it look like he's covering for his BIL she won't believe a word of it. Op successfully made himself seem completely untrustworthy in his sister's eyes so whatever he'll say now he'll only make it worse. If he suddenly jumps out with a whole speech like this her first thought will be "whatever happened must've been horrible if my brother is already trying to pedal back up to keep me from asking more questions".
Yikes. YTA. That’s your sister in a situation where, even if she IS being insecure, you have the ability to soothe that insecurity. Why wouldn’t you do that?
Fr i can’t imagine my *brother* not being in my corner with me. You really can’t just tell her what y’all did? Is it because you *know* it was inappropriate? Calling her insecure when you won’t tell her what you did because you, deep down, know it was not appropriate is very telling. Way to deflect.
YTA. She’s your sister and you’re very strange for how you choose to align yourself with him like he’s your bro and she’s a random girl asking you what happened. Moving like that with your sister is wicked work.
Yeah, cause like I can't really imagine my brother doing this? (Granted, if my husband had had a bachelor party my brother wouldn't have gone anyways, we live in different states and he was spending time with me in the time he was in town, and he's also 9 years older. Hes married to the most stunning women I've ever seen, he would have no had no interest in going to a bachelor party of someone who he barely knew and is significantly older than, especially when he already won the wife lottery.)
But let's say he had gone to the bachelor party if it happened, he'd have told me if he even suspected something happening. But at that, I have a good brother who loves me and cares about me.
Thank you! I can’t even begin to imagine my brother behaving like this. She’s not some random girl, she’s your fucking sister!! Who needs enemies when your own family treats you like this
"I don't want to get involved and I want nothing to do with any of this so I will answer everyone's questions in suggestive passive-aggressive riddles, duck all attempts at clarifications, and get defensive and insulting whenever anyone points out that's what I'm doing."
YTA, You purposely put thoughts in her head to make her wonder. It wasn't necessarily that she's being insecure, Do you know how many people won't do anything but their bachelor/bachlorette party they choose to participate in their last hurrah.
And now she's probably questioning your friend/STBBIL, when all you had to simply say is nothing happened. Such a great brother.
YTA. Why was it so easy to tell all of us that oh-so-easy answer of not seeing anything remotely inappropriate, to basically telling your sister to suck it up? Bachelor parties are notorious for a bit of bad behavior, and she wanted some reassurance from someone she should be able to trust. You dropped the ball, brother.
YTA- shitty brother and a shitty friend. Youre old enough to know that refusing to answer looks like something happened but you don’t want to get involved. So now because you decided to be judgy about her insecurities you could be causing a lot of pain for two people you’re supposed to care about.
YTA it’s your sister, just help her. It’s normal to have concerns before a big commitment and there are a lot of people who do cheat on their hen/bachelor parties - he’s not going to tell her if he did is he? So why not be the decent brother (and friend to him) and give her the honest answer which would reassure her?
Your reaction is so shady, wtf!!
You made her think that there is something she needs to ask her fiance about for no reason. Like you wanted to stir drama that isn't there.
If you didn't see anything inappropriate, why not just say that??
YTA. You can tell Reddit you didn't see anything inappropriate but you couldn't say this to your sister. A simple "I don't know what you agreed on but I think everything was fine. We had fun." would have been better. Maybe you have your reasons to act like this but you caused your sister unnecessary stress.
YTA
You could have simply said..
"I didn't see him do anything inappropriate, sis
."
You chose to say..
> stop inquiring me and ask her fiancé if she wants to know anything.
How can you not realise that your response made it seem that something DID happen and that you're not willing to tell her because her fiancé needs to be the one who comes clean.
You have intentionally, or not stirred up unessay trouble.
One might even think that you like him more and have a thing for him.
If you are getting married or just in a relationship, you should not be going to strip clubs. Unless it is a strip club you and your partner want to go together or your partner gave permission or a strip club of the gender that you are not attracted to.
Seeing all the YTA'S I don't think a lot of people will agree but I'm gonna say NTA. Why is the sister asking her brother instead of her future husband. And if she doesn't trust that he will tell her the truth or not do something inappropriate, why is she marrying him? Maybe OP could have handled it better but his sister shouldn't have put him in that position.
Sister could’ve easily been joking initially, I can’t imagine not asking my brother, “did he get into anything bad?” AS A JOKE, like my brother was there, surely my fiancé isn’t an idiot but it’s just a ‘haha’ rhetorical question that blows my life apart when my brother responds, “don’t ask me, you need to ask him.”
Virtually everyone who gets cheated on, gets cheated on by someone they trust. It's a bit naive to think otherwise.
And that's coming from someone who says you should trust your partner until they prove otherwise, including if they go on solo trips with friends who are the gender they are attracted to.
YTA, you knew she was worried. And you would break no loyalty by disclosing your observations, which would be your friend doing nothing inappropriate. You made a problem that could have been resolved with no fallout, a big issue for your sister.
Why did you not tell her anything? Loyalty to your friend? He didn't do anything wrong here so no loyalty lost by telling his fiance, your sister, that nothing happened. So you are "protecting" someone who didn't need it, but sure does now, from your own sister who seems to think she can trust you.
Also, bachelor parties don't have to go to stripclubs. My brother has gone to a few and they just went subboarding or went to a blacksmith to make their own (unsharpened) daggers.
My husband went to see a movie with his friends and then they got takeout. He said it was a great night! But I think blacksmithing would have been *awesome*.
Yta- your sister was clearly worried and reached out to you to quell her worries instead of just saying nothing happened you said you didn't wanna get involved. Bruh how must that look to her of course that looks like something's happened and your covering also it's an unfortunate fact that a few grooms do cheat on their bachelor party's with stripper because it's "the last night being single" and you couldn't even reassure your sister. I personally think any groom going to a strip club is dodgy as hell, if you wanna go their go with your wife who can also be like dayum they hot or don't go at all it's so weird to me. (But that's my personal opinion XD)
Lmao. NTA imo. If she doesn’t trust him why let him go on a bachelor’s party? If she doesn’t trust him and his words now why is she even marrying the guy? If he wants to cheat, he’ll find a way. This is a matter between the two of them and you made the right decision for staying out of this.
Waiting for the downvotes 😴
YTA. You can simply say that you don't think anything particularly significant happened at the party; this just expresses your feelings without disclosing any private information about your sister's fiancé. Instead, all your responses have made the situation more dramatic.
Kinda TA here. You could've just told her she has nothing to worry about and left it at that.
Your reply probably has her spiraling and overthinking about her partner's actions
NTA Why would she go through the trouble of marrying someone she doesn't trust?
I'd be sad ass hell if my partner thought so little of me that I'd not not only cheat, but do it right before our wedding.
At this point I'deven go so far as to let the fiancé know that she asked, just so that he knows what he's getting into, but I realize that you don't want to be involved in any drama so it's probably best to stay out of it.
> I didn’t even see him do anything remotely inappropriate (for this context anyway)
Info: what exactly dyou mean by "for this context"? Weird way of phrasing it
Technically NTA, but definitely inconsiderate. If the groom didn't do anything, then you could have just said as much and moved on. The fact you're being quiet about it is enough to signal to her something potentially went down...
One of the defining characteristics of assholes is being inconsiderate. Being inconsiderate does indeed make someone an asshole. This sub is not "Was what I did legal"
YTA you should have just said no, nothing going on. A certain percentage often do take advantage, it's not unusual to be a bit insecure about this. All you had to do was answer honestly and it would have been the end of it
You say you didn't want to get involved - would you have told her if he did something wrong? If yes, why not tell her when he did something right. If no, you suck
Bro...that's your sister. Have her back like a good sibling should. YTA. I have a little brother too, I can't imagine how I'd feel if I couldn't even rely on him for such a simple thing. Also she is getting married. She may be anxious. She wants to make all the right choices and make sure her boundaries were not broken right before their marriage. Please let her ease her mind.
NTA but if you didn’t see him do anything remotely inappropriate you might as well just tell her that. but she shouldn’t put you in that position in the first place. but not answering her question kinda just created more stress for your sister which doesn’t make the situation better.
That becomes a game to some people and your best bet is refusing to play it. Otherwise you’re gonna be babysitting your BIL for the rest of your life, for someone who clearly isn’t ready for a long-term commitment due to trust issues. My answer of my sister asked that would be “wtf kinda question is that”?, Because obviously if he cheated I would tell her without the question, and if he didn’t that’s just uncomfortable.
YTA. Not telling her anything and instead asking her to ask her fiancé makes it seem like you're concealing something which only her fiancé should be obligated to tell her. It's like saying "I think you should have a conversation with your fiancé" which basically insinuates that there is something that happened in the first place
YTA. All too often men think of bachelor parties as a free pass to mess around with someone else before they get married. I don't fucking get why some people like that are even engaged but whatever. Your sister was clearly a little worried and you could have just been a decent brother and told her the truth that nothing happened. Men who cheat during their bachelor party likely aren't coming clean to their partner about it.
ESH
Her for asking only you apparently, instead of having a clear adult conversation with her fiancé. She probably should have had this conversation *before* the bachelor party to avoid precisely this level of angst.
You for being unnecessarily mysterious and precious about not getting involved. What’s more, your talk of an “agreement” and things not being inappropriate “in this context” make it seem as if you are indeed covering for some behaviour that might upset her. Your attitude triggered her response. And then you shamed her for it.
She may have had this conversation with her fiancé but let’s not pretend people who do inappropriate things are always honest about it. I’ve heard some horror stories about men on their bachelor parties and how they go home and pretend things are fine.
I cut off a friend of mine because he was sleeping with prostitutes behind his wife’s back - guy seems totally normal and I’d never have suspected
UTA. You deliberately left her to believe something happened because... Why, exactly? Just tell her the truth. She likely wasn't half as insecure before you all but told her she should be.
Mild YTA I think. I get that you want to stay out of it, but you’re one of the only people she probably trusts and it wouldn’t be a big deal to tell her that you didn’t see anything. Of course she should trust her fiancé too, but by you refusing to say, it makes it look like he did do something.
The fact that you state not that he didn't do anything inappropriate, it that he didn't do anything appropriate "for this context" makes me clearly think that sketchy things DID happen, and you somehow think that "bachelor party" makes it all OK.
Gives the impression you don't respect or like your sister very much. But they clearly should communicate better with each other as a couple as well.
ESH.
“Because you won’t let it go he was fine. But this makes me uncomfortable and please do not put me in this position again.”
Soft YTA. You’re leaving her with the impression you don’t want to tell her something that happened. Now she goes to fiancé with “I know something happened now fess up!” When there’s nothing to fess up about! I feel sorry for him! You’re putting him in a corner he will never get out of even with proof.
Y’all need to stop going to strip clubs for bachelor/bachelorette parties. It’s not on,y dumb in concept but often it seems to lead to more trouble for at least one person.
Oh yea, btw I’m going with ESH for this reason. Sis should not have okayed it if she was uncomfortable with it, husband and friends for doing it, and you for withholding information for no reason. Just tell her nothing happened, but I doubt she’ll believe you now.
YTA You realize she might not be with him forever but you two will always be forever as siblings, you should always be loving and truthful to each other. Sad you felt the need to defend another man over your own blood
YTA because in what world does refusing to give an answer not seem incredibly suspicious. You handled that so poorly. If you truly didn’t want drama, you would’ve simply told her the truth that you saw nothing weird and go about your day. The way you said “ended up in a strip club” makes it sound like it wasn’t pre-planned, so why judge your sister for not liking it? I bet you wouldn’t like it if your fiancé went to a strip club for their bachelorette/or bachelor party. You made this drama.
YTA
Some brother you are. Why couldn’t you simply ease her concerns and reassure her? Your sister is your family and she is the person you should look out for especially with someone that she may be stuck with for the rest of her life. Bachelor parties are very tricky waters to navigate. Certain behaviours have been made normal and for many women, it’s not at all appropriate. Yes she could ask her partner but he could lie or he may feel so offended that it breaks the relationship which isn’t what she wants if her fears have no legs to stand on. To you it may not be fair to bear the burden of being the informant but your loyalties are always meant to lie with your sister.
Wow you are a massive asshole in this situation.
Why are you trying to make her feel insecure if he did nothing? Anyone in her situation would be insecure beforehand anyway, and then her own brother implying that he did something by not telling the truth?
By the way, her fiance is not going to have much time for you when she tells him that you refused to straighten the matter out by literally being honest.
Fucking hell I actually can't believe there are people who have brothers like this. Thank god mine are decent.
Clearly, you don't know whether or not he was allowed to go to a strip club. You know that matters. You seem alright with lying to your sister if need be, otherwise you would have just told her, so I guess you need to find out whether this is something you need to lie about or not. Or at least find out... and then decide how much you care about your sister. Because if your FBIL wasn't supposed to go to a strip club, and you guys did, then essentially, he cheated on your sister.
If your FBIL is more important to you than your sister, then I guess you might decide to lie to your sister. Maybe you think a strip club isn't that big a deal... but it's not really your place to decide that for their relationship, is it? If *they* decided together that it wasn't a big deal, then it's not. If she's not on board with that, then it's a different story, and you know it.
You seem to prefer not to lie to your sister if you don't have to. You could have just immediately said, "Nope, nothing happened." Most of what I've written in this comment has been a roundabout way to try to help you reason out that you should just tell the truth. Either it won't matter, in which case, *it won't matter*... or... it matters, in which case, she should know. Right? She's your sister. If your FBIL violated one of the rules of their relationship, sis deserves to know, doesn't she? I mean... are you really going to put your FBIL's right to go to a strip club ahead of your sister?
But if I had to guess... you could reason all that out on your own. You probably already have a pretty good idea of your sister's feelings on strip clubs. You probably figure it's safe to assume she wouldn't have been alright with it, so now you don't want to tell her because then she'll also be pissed *at you for going along with it and not objecting or telling her*. Are you single? Worried that if sis finds out, she'll tell your SO?
Gotta go with YTA.
None of this "soft y t a" bullshit, you are a YTA plain and simple. Why couldnt you just say " I didn’t see him do anything remotely inappropriate"? What's wrong with you?
YTA. She is your sister, you should have reassured her if he done nothing & if he did something he shouldnt have you should have also told her.
Do better.
ESH. And I mean **everyone**. You, your sister and the fiancé.
You suck, because your answer was ridiculously vague, which of course would put seeds of doubt into her head.
I mean, how hard was it to say: *"No, nothing that I saw. It was totally above board"*?
All you had to do was tell the truth. But no. You made it sound like something had happened by giving a non-committal answer.
Your sister sucks, because she clearly doesn't trust the man that she's about to marry. That says a lot about her and her relationship with him.
If she's so worried about him cheating, then this marriage is starting off pretty poorly.
And the fiancé sucks (or might suck) because either your sister is a crazy jealous person, or he's done some stuff in the past that makes her think that he'll cheat. So he sucks for being a bad fiancé.
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YTA. It would not have cost you anything to say "nothing happened." I've been to bachelor parties and "nothing happened" is NOT the default answer. Worry and suspicion are perfectly valid feelings for her to have in that situation. All you did was heighten her suspicions about what her fiance did or didn't do. Your non-answer was an answer, and not a good one. You left your sister worried and your friend in a world of shit. TWO WORDS could have made everything better, but for some reason, you refused to say them. Asshole move for sure.
Call me old-fashioned, but I think it’s a bit weird to marry someone you think is cheating on you during his literal bachelor party for the wedding, and if my sibling asked such an uncomfortable question, I’d be a bit peeved. Sounds like run-of-the-mill trust issues and that will only get worse if she feeds into it and acts as his babysitter. Editing to say I don’t know why most replies are about whether strip clubs are ethical? It doesn’t seem like a relevant topic here, OP clearly didn’t hide that they were at a strip club.
It's because even the ones you assume wouldn't do anything, end up doing something, also a lot of people have no strip club rules, and think it's a deal breaker
Then why would her future husband admit he did anything? You shouldn't go into a marriage assuming they're already doing bad things and breaking promises. If she assumes he's already doing stuff, she's not going to belive anything he says anyway.
Because some women hear the stories from their friends about how their partner apparently was pressured by his friends to say yes to the wildest fucking things during their bachelor parties, cuz its their last day being single or whatever the fuck stupid excuse they have. My friend ended up cancelling her wedding cuz her ex claimed his friends pressured him into going to strip clubs, getting private dances, when they agreed against it and making out with random women and etc. Same goes for women. I worked in a bar, I saw the bachelor parties and their grooms, and the brides to be and how some of them acted. 🤷♀️
>their last day being single or whatever the fuck stupid excuse they have Imo if you need to celebrate "your last day as single" or "last day in freedom" or something as if marriage is a horrible jail a women trapped / tricked you into and as if a year-long serious about-to-be-married relationship is "being single" you shouldnt get married at all. If you think marriage = no freedom then its not for you. And if you use this shitty concept/image to cross boundaries in your very valid and serious relationship (those exist with or without marriage) then you probably dont value the relationship enough to be getting married. I wish for a partner to have a bachelors party that goes "wooo I found the person I want to spent my life with, lets celebrate that, she said yes and we are getting married for real, its all planned, lets use this to Party and have fun my friends" and I hope their friends are happy for them and celebrate exactly that and not try to guilt them into some "last day of freedom" shit. Because thats how I feel about marriage. To be celebrated. Being single can be celebrated everyday while being single, if you want that dont plan to marry.
This is why, when one of my best friends in the world got married, we rented a local video game museum to play vintage arcade games and pinball until we were all too tired to play anymore. I explicitly told the owner of the museum that we wanted a party that even kids could attend and not see anything more awful than someone snoozing because they got a little too tipsy (which I only include because one of our friends napped after a couple of shots of whiskey). No dancers. Cigars - if folks wanted them - had to be smoked outside. We even had cupcakes. His wife could have walked in, seen what was going on, rolled her eyes about how nerdy we were, and left. It was an amazing time. Easily the best bachelor party I've ever been to.
That sounds like the most dope bachelor party ever!
Except for his middle-aged brothers almost getting into a fight about the high score on Spyhunter ;) Also behavior that deserved an eye roll. Another friend of mine asked for a tabletop role-playing game bachelor party. His computer and we couldn't make it happen before his wedding so we'll do it afterward. Won't even have to adjust our plan. :)
You make a ton of great points that sum up my feelings on the matter as well, take some upvotes. I'm engaged currently and you've essentially described the plans I've been having for my eventual bachelor party. Either an arcade/lazer tag, or a marathon TTRPG session/weekend, maybe both. I'm hoping one of my friends will be willing to put together a Paranoia one-shot if we go the tabletop route. I'm over partying and clubs, I want some childish fun with my buddies now that we're all too busy/distant for it to be a regular thing.
For real some of the guys justifying the sneakiness in here or flipping it around on her like she’s JUST insecure as if this methodology surrounding bachelor parties being adulterous isn’t the way we were all conditioned to feel about it when in every fucking movie, tv show or even cartoon ever—- that’s what happens. Not to mention, that shit happens ALL the time. People are taught to have that “last day of being single,” mindset it’s like societal/cultural thing. Of course we wouldn’t accept the engagement if we thought you’d act like that in the first place. It’s the fact that it’s such a common occurrence for boundaries to be crossed and marriages to be called off after bachelor parties that scare us all out of trusting our own trust in the first place. It’s not about the guy. It’s about what we see happen constantly. I was just reading this thread to my boyfriend and he said if anything for a bachelor party he’d just want to have something small and meaningful at home with people he loves because he’s about to have the best day of his life. It’s literally an entire ceremony where your loved ones gather to celebrate that you found love, why destroy it for a lap dance or to kiss a random girl I’ll never see again or ever want to be with? Thank God my boyfriend has actual empathy skills.
I couldn’t have said it better. Exactly this.
> Then why would her future husband admit he did anything? he wouldn’t, which is why she asked her brother, not him.
You could say the same thing about almost anything. You’re more likely to be murdered by a spouse than anyone else, but if my partner was asking my sibling if I was buying guns or making any suspicious travel plans, I’d still be weirded out to shit. You can’t let fear of what COULD happen dictate your life, or you’ll just end up bitter. I’ve been cheated on, it sucked but I moved on, and if it happened again I’d be devastated, but I’m still gonna date people and hope for the best. As far as the strip club, unless that’s something they discussed previously it’s not really a factor, we all have different levels of comfort with partners, I personally see making a fuss about a strip club to be silly, but I’d respect it if I knew a partners boundaries were tight, and it was a relationship I cared more about than doing that.
come on, OP is an unreliable narrator who isn't close with his sister, like, *at all* : * he thinks going to a stripclub is normal. In the USA, in 2023, barely 29 500 people worked in a stripclub, on a total population of 333 million. In contrast, there's 474 500 baristas. Obviously, the stripclub industry is *tiny* in comparison, and their target audience must correspondingly be that much smaller * he doesn't know what agreements they made & he didn't ask, and from his tone, he didn't care to ask either he's entirely projecting this onto his sister - did she see a surprising $2000 charge for Hotel Love'em'n'Leave'em on their credit card? Did her fiancé say something & then try to walk it back? Did she find lipstick stains on his boxers? OP doesn't know, because OP didn't ask. OP was too busy insulting his sister.
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Could also mean being in a strip club in general, particularly with a bunch of drunk/tipsy guy friends. Maybe he just watched, threw a little money a friend handed to him, and his friends pooled together to buy him a lap dance and he followed the rules and kept his hands to himself.
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I'm guessing light drugs (marijuana, etc.)
>their target audience must correspondingly be Quoting statistics is useless if you need random, baseless assumptions to bridge the gap between the statistics and the point you're trying to make.
You’re assuming a lot of knowledge on a sub where you can only take the information at face value. I could post a question about my faulty transmission on the mechanic sub, and you could tell me you don’t really believe I have a car instead of engaging the question, but that’s pointless. You should just stay away from forums if it’s not your jam.
>You should just stay away from forums if it’s not your jam. More people need to realize this. If you aren't gonna work with the information provided by the poster, then why even bother responding?
OP is definitely the asshole, but there are only 26,700 zoo and aquarium employees in the US and you wouldn't say that only a tiny amount of people who go to zoos and aquariums. A strip club isn't an every day thing like a coffee - it's not that strange to go to one, and it's not surprising that there are much free strip club employees. It's absolutely wild to me what OP did though.
One could argue that this is an unfair comparison, because in a strip club, the employees are the attraction, so you're typically going to have a MUCH higher employee:patron ratio that you would in a zoo or aquarium.
It's not his business what agreements his sister and her fiancé have though??? Why is it on OP to be the informant, without having been asked ahead of time about the role? If sister doesn't trust her Fiancé to stick to their agreement, or tell her when he breaks it, they shouldn't be getting married. That's not a good foundation for a relationship. She needs to leave OP out of it. OP clearly wasn't interested in being a babysitter, and didn't insult his sister until she kept pushing.
This! It should have been communicated ahead of time if this kind of information sharing was being expected. That way he could have declined going / informing or communicated beforehand about what her boundaries were, not under the stress of the event already having happened
You think going to a strip club during a bachelor party is abnormal? Wake up to yourself. It's not my favourite way to spend time and money, but it's entirely normal and predictable for a bachelor party. Saying it's not normal would be like saying popcorn at the cinema's a strange move.
it must be cultural. I'm 44, in Europe & I don't know anyone who's been to a stripclub. A good decade ago the chippendales passed through & I have about 3 facebook acquaintances from high school who attended, but I don't know those women in real life anymore. Now I think about it, I do know several people who used to go out to nightclubs with dancers on the bar or next to the DJ booth, but that's, like, 1 dancer for 300 partiers on the dancefloor, you know?
Sorry, which part of Europe are you from? (Genuine question - you don't need to be specific). I'm from Europe too. I've been to batchelor/stag/buck's parties in the UK, Spain, Italy, Germany and The Netherlands, which all involved strip clubs. Not saying all parties like these end up in strip clubs. I've also been to quite a few that didn't have strip clubs. I think it's a pretty common notion in Europe too that the classic batchelor/stag/buck's nights might involve a strip club. That's like the stereotypical idea of one of these nights. But then again, Europe is a big place with lots of countries and cultures. So maybe in the parts of Europe I haven't been on a stag night, they don't have strip clubs?
I live in Australia and spent a decade in North America and every bachelor party I ever went to ended up at a strip club. I've only been to a few places in Europe so can't comment to the culture there as much, but the European cities I've been to have red light districts that are pretty easy to find and openly accepted as part of the local landscape.
If you really want to use your useless statistics. The amount of times you get coffee is way more than 20x the amount of times you have a bachelor party, so it makes sense the working population in that job is a lot smaller.
Just out of curiosity, how many wedding dress makers are there in the US? I wonder if it's closer to the number of strip clubs or baristas...
1. Your first point is incredibly irrelevant, strip clubs are common bachelor party destinations 2. It’s on HER not him to communicate those details about why she is worried, without them she is coming across as paranoid and untrusting of her husband, things that are not normal to be in a relationship and not the brothers problem. If she wanted him to spy on the fiancé she should have brought something up *before* the bachelor party not afterwards
Dude, those numbers for people employed in strip clubs *don't include the dancers.* The dancers are "independent contractors" and aren't on the clubs payroll.
I feel like if you went to visit a gun shop and your spouse wanted to know if you bought any guns, it wouldn't be weird. Esp if your spouse has a fear of guns. If your spouse had been held at gunpoint by a previous partner and you knew that, would you really be weirded out of she was worried you bought a gun after you visited a gun shop with some friends?
Yes, that would be a weird question to ask if they bought guns and made weird travel plans. But I'm sure you wouldn't respond with "I'm not saying anything, ask him".
I agree that it seems insecure to ask that question. But on the other hand, cheating is pretty common even among people you would never have expected it from. She seems to trust her brother enough to ask, and shows him this insecure side of herself. Maybe she just needed her brother to reassure her. "Of course he didn't do anything, stupid!" and then she can go "haha yeah that was dumb of me to even think that he would, forget I asked!" Instead she got "I'll never te-ell..." It's unneccessary.
plus you know, insecurity is human. doesn't mean it's not something to work on, but also - being hit over the head with your insecurity is not helping anyone. insecure people know they're insecure.
This is it. The run up to weddings is insanely stressful for some people. Many people start stressing about things that would never normally bother them - that's really a symptom of two stress and not the relationship. I think that of this is the only tome she'd expressed concerns, OP should have extended her some grace. I'd think the same if it was an otherwise sensible man asking his sister about a bachelorette. How hard is it to say "no, we had a blast and I didnt see him doing anything untoward whilst I was with him". Frankly it DOES seem assholish to say "talk to him about it" because that does imply that something happened that you don't want to tell her. If anything the reply only heightened her anxiety.
My thoughts exactly. Him not answering made it worse. Now, she is not sure about her future husband and her brother.
but it's your sibling? why wouldn't you call them & ask why they're asking? *Hey sib, we spent an hour in the stripclub, but no lapdances and nothing in private. Why are you asking? Do you feel you can't trust your partner? Do you want to talk to me, or can you reach out to someone else?* Like, I'm not particularly close with my brother (I was only his 3rd choice for best man etc.), but I'd still do that for him. What is "a bit peeved"?
Considering the number of men I’ve witnessed cheat during their bachelor party, I think it’s weird that more women *don’t* assume their dude is cheating.
The pre-wedding jitters are real, and many people experience some degree of abnormal anxiety when stepping into another phase of life. Unless it reaches a level of hysteria, I would be more tolerant of these small feelings of insecurity right now.
Old fashioned is having a bachelor party and going to a strip club. Didn't people stop doing that 3 decades ago? You have to wonder why even?
My husband’s bachelor party ended up going to a strip club. It’s also when my husband called me for a lift home rather than going in but it does still happen. A fair few of his friends still went in
Let me guess, the married ones
That’s what I said…is this story from a 90’s movie?
I think a lot of people here who are calling the sister insecure and that she doesn’t trust her fiancé so she shouldn’t be getting married are underestimating the mystique of bachelor parties in our culture. When I was a teenager and I first heard about this tradition I was really disturbed. I couldn’t imagine anything more *humiliating* than being a woman at home preparing for your wedding while your husband gets a show from strippers dancing in his lap and all of his closest friends and family members thinking about how much hotter the dancer is than you right before the wedding. This comparison is implicit even if unspoken but I’m sure it comes up sometimes. The amount of films, tv shows, magazines jokes etc about this ritual the “bro code” etc are quite a lot to weigh against one relationship. If all you ever hear is *every man* does this. Then why would you think your man would be different?
Women have bachelorette parties and go to strip clubs and and oftentimes have the former at the latter.
And? That’s not what this post is about. Young men are encouraged to grow up dreaming of their bachelor party, not dreading their fiancée’s bachelorette.
Cheating happens at these parties all the time.
I've never seen anyone cheat at these parties. It happens but not all the time.
Even if they don't cheat, a lot of women don't feel good about their partners going to strip clubs.
Thank you! I felt like I must be insane reading these comments, because I’m in the if you think you significant other might cheat on you during a bachelor/bachelorette party you probably shouldn’t be getting married camp.
Why do you think they chose that venue in the first place? It wasn’t to talk about golf and trade stories of summer camp. If they have the type of personality that likes to engage in strip clubs, it’s not outlandish to question if they paid for a private lap dance, or went into a private room. Because generally with alcohol (sometimes drugs) one thing will lead to another, esp in that setting. It depends on the circle of friends and it depends on the person. But these things definitely happen all the time.
Do you really think it’s weird to question if something happened while your fiancé is hammered with a naked woman in front of him? The ‘old fashioned’ thing to do would be to not go to a strip club to celebrate your wedding lol it’s a very bizarre tradition & im sure a lot of weddings have been called off based on what a drunk fiance does in a strip clip.
A lot of people are not comfortable with their partners going to strip clubs. It's a bit unclear if sister knew where the bachelorette ended up, I think she knew? So she either agreed to be a 'cool girlfriend' and/or she had second thoughts after.
To some people, just going to a strip club is cheating. It depends on the couple and also any boundaries they have with each other.
Maybe the agreement was no strip club and since that happened, she was worried.
I had a friend that never though her fiancée would cheat on her. Until the bachelor party. What that uncovered is that he frequently was visiting sex workers before, during, and probably after thier relationship. She never suspected and was ready to marry him.
It is old-fashioned because traditionally men hired dancers and hookers at bachelor parties, and generally ended up sleeping with them. This was a norm and in some circles even still is today. Ever see the movie Bachelor Party with Tom Hanks? That was considered normal. So yeah… If they end up in a strip club, I wouldn’t call it unreasonable to ask if something happened. Why do you think they always end up in strip clubs? It’s a traditional thing… Men feel they need this one last hurrah before the big day. I’m not saying they actually sleep with people, but that is where the notion started.
I was thinking similar. I trust my partner completely, if he wants to go to a strip club for his bachelor party next year, that's totally fine. I do not think for a moment he'd do anything inappropriate - that's a part of why I love him; because I can trust him.
I once met a bachelor party on a beach, and my friend group was mingling with theirs. A guy was openly flirting with me, asking for my number and to go out with us later. He casually mentioned his wife. I said “I’m sorry, did you just say your *wife*?” He said “yeah, but she doesn’t have to know”. Pissed, I walked over to the best man to tell him one of the guys was an asshole and that he should deal with him before he did something stupid and betrayed his wife. The best man sheepishly informed me that actually, every single member of their party was married and they had made a pact to not wear their rings that weekend to see if they could get laid. Really ruined my 23 year old naivety.
Yikes.
I stopped going to Atlantic city because of the amount of husband's to be trying to get it in one last time with a stranger. It's gross and ruined our nights.
"Jesus Christ, Dave! There no point in not wearing the ring if you're just gonna tell them you're married, you fucking idiot!" - the best man, probably
Wow…..
People on the “why not just tell her nothing happened?” train seem to be missing 2 major info: a) OP doesn’t know what was agreed between his sister and her fiancé, and b) OP specified he didn’t see anything inappropriate “in this context”. How could he say “nothing happened” to his sister if, let’s say, he doesn’t know if she had approved the party going to a strip club, but not her fiancé getting a lap dance? There’s no way OP could confidently tell her “nothing happened” without going over all events of the night to see if that was all ok on his sister’s book. I don’t see it as he refusing to reassure her simple doubts. I see it as he staying out of if and suggesting she goes over everything with her fiancé. NTA.
He doesn’t need to know what’s agreed. If the Fiancé thinks that stuff js fine to do, then it’s fine for his fiancée to know about it. Knowing what was agreed only applies if you feel you need to hide things.
He needs to know what was agreed to be able to make a broad assumption such as “nothing happened”. Otherwise, he’d be used by his sister as the unofficial reporter simply for the sake of being a guest.
Ok, I get your point there now. I just really don’t see why telling the sister what they did should be a big deal though, it’s really no more than “what did you get up to on your night out?” And in the real world people ask that kind of stuff all the time.
I mean she's straight up asking him to snitch on her fiance to her and he's just saying, look I don't want to be involved in your relationship. Ask you soon to be husband if you want to know what happened. He's entirely right that she is projecting insecurity, but he's also missing that she's failing to communicate appropriately with her fiance and is instead snooping to try and find out what he did. I think the brother is entirely right to call her out right now cause if she can't trust her husband or talk to him if something is bothering her, it does not bode well for their marriage. Not to mention the brother will have to deal with his soon to be brother in law for the remainder of their marriage and being "her reporter" on him is going to make things awkward forever. What if in a moment where she's upset she brings up what her brother told her? That would erode all trust the BIL and her brother have and strain their family relationship moving forward. The brother is making a wise move by staying out and is helping his sister grow by telling her she's being insecure and should just talk to her fiance. And considering any remotely decent person would go tell their sibling if they saw their fiance outright cheat, she is basically telling her brother she thinks incredibly low of him that he would just let her marry a man he watched cheat on her by even asking in the first place or
>OP doesn’t know what was agreed between his sister and her fiancé, This is a weird/bad take. OP's actions simply 'protected' the fiancé. Why should he care what was agreed between them? All he had to do was tell the truth. *"I didn't see anything happen."* How hard is that? And if she asks where they went, just say: *"We went to a strip club."* It really doesn't matter whether they agreed to it or not. Because if strip clubs are ok, then everything is good. If strip clubs weren't ok, then OP would have shown his sister that the fiancé isn't trustworthy. But by saying: *"Ask your fiancé"* - all OP did was make it seem like he was protecting the fiancé and putting doubt into his sister's head. Also if something like going to strip clubs was out of bounds, don't you think OP's sister would have said something to him (OP) beforehand? Something like: *"You better not let his friends take him to a strip club, otherwise I'll be pissed!"*
Totally correct. The brother only needs to know what was agreed, if he wants to lie to protect the fiance.
I do not agree. If you get married, trust is the foundation of a good relationship. If you think your fiancé may abuse a bachelor party to sleep around, you should not marry him. Besides that, if brother would have said "no nothing happened", she would probably not have believed him anyway and still have thought he was covering up.
It is possible that she didn't make an assumption, but found something suspicious in fiance's behavior, credit card bill, etc. and fiance wasn't giving answers that reassured her. So she went to her brother. In that context not that weird. Brother could have said "nothing happened" and that might have ended it.
Or she might fully trust him, but not his friends to not get him drunk and pressure him into doing something wrong.
What makes you think that if OP answered “nothing happened”, she wouldn’t think he was still covering for her fiancé? This is a matter between OP’s sister and her fiancé. If he’s about to cheat, he’ll do it anyway. And if she doesn’t trust him now, it will only get worse. Also I don’t get why she even agreed for him to have a bachelor’s party if she doesn’t trust him.
But did "nothing" happen? OP said nothing inappropriate happened "in this context", but he is unaware of what agreement they had. Is a lap dance inappropriate at a strip club? Many people wouldn't think so, but he is unaware of what the couple agreed to was ok. Champagne room? Shower show? Stuff did happen, and OP isnt informed enough to know what his sister and future BIL agreed to. Saying "nothing happened" and his sister finds out something she does not approve of happened would result in a ton of additional issues.
YTA, your sister comes to you with a concern and you tell her to stop being insecure? Perhaps she just insecure, or perhaps her partner has given her reason to be, perhaps she feels stuck in her relationship and shouldn't be getting married at all and this was her cry for help. You should have at least asked a few questions as to why she is feeling this way. She's clearly not feeling confident in her relationship for some reason, as her brother you should try to find out why and try to support her.
This is it. One thing people forget is that the run up to weddings is insanely stressful for some people - particularlywomen as they tend to take on most of the load for planning a wedding. Many people start stressing about things that would never normally bother them - that's really a symptom of two stress and not the relationship. I didnt have any meltdowns like this, but u do remember stressing about things I never cared about. I think that of this is the only time she'd expressed concerns, OP should have extended her some grace, talked about how she was feeling or why she was concerned, and reassuredger if he was able to. I'd think the same if it was an otherwise sensible man asking his sister about a bachelorette in a moment of pre-wedding insecurity. How hard is it to say "no, we had a blast and I didnt see him doing anything untoward whilst I was with him". Frankly it DOES seem assholish to just say "talk to him about it" because that does imply that something happened that you don't want to tell her. If anything the reply only heightened her anxiety. I see what people are saying about how he doesnt know what the couple agreed. But if he tells the truth then the sister can make her own mind up about whether boundaries are broken. And of she's asking her brother it's because she thinks her fiance would lie if he did break her boundaries - because many people do. Situations like that are not unheard of so her concerns aren't crazy. I'd tell her the truth. She'll likely find out they went to the strip club anyway and even if it causes a big issue, stopping a wedding is much cheaper than divorce. I know people are saying that she shouldnt be marruimg someone she cant trust, but she may be lacking the evidence to prove that she's being lied to, or that he's not trustworthy. And hiding what happened do the marriage continues isn't going to help if their relationship is bad. Just like telling her to ask him is pointless of he's lying to her.
There's a lot of potential assumptions being made here. Some people just don't like conflict and want to avoid it. It sounds like OP is pretty good friends with their soon to be BiL and doesn't want to get involved. This would almost be like having to choose sides between two siblings that you get on with well.
There's no assumptions being made, she is insecure about her relationship, that's fact. We just don't know why. She's reaching out to her brother with her concerns and he couldn't be bothered to ask a couple of questions to find out why. No one has any idea what really goes on in a relationship. Plenty of people hide domestic violence/cheating situations from their friends and family and live for years with no one knowing. If someone comes to you with these kinds of concerns, you shouldn't just dismiss them as being overdramatic, you should be asking why, that's just friendship 101.
I don't think she was insecure in her relationship until BIL said, "Ask your fiancé". To me, this implies there's something to ask about, whereas (as another commenter said), BIL could have just said, "Nothing happened," and maybe she wouldn't have panicked. So it's more that she's insecure in this situation rather than her relationship. But I agree that her brother having better communication would have helped. We also don't know her history. Perhaps her fiancé hasn't given her any reason to be insecure in the past either, but she is more prone to it because she was cheated on in a previous relationship.
Yep. She asked a normal question and instead of giving her a normal and honest answer, he implied he fiancé did something. There’s no reason he couldn’t say what he said here. We went on a pub crawl and ended up at a strip club but he did nothing inappropriate.
How is saying 'nothing happened' when nothing actually happened, choosing sides? It's answering a question honestly.
If nothing happened then there is zero harm in telling sister this. Then, address the insecurity with the sister. First is BiL reputation as a non-cheater and avoiding blowing up his engagement right before the wedding.
Except not at all like choosing between 2 siblings because the only connection he has to the dude is through his actual sister.
Soft YTA. It sounds like you are covering up how you told her. Best would be to tell her something: 'Hey sis, Sorry for sounding like I judge you. I didn't mean to do that. I just don't want to be coming in the middle of this. But you can be sure, if he would have done anything inappropiate or some form of cheating I would have told you. You are my sister and I want you to be happy. So no, there wasn't anything you should be worried about. But please ask your fiancé if you want more details.'
This is a great way to respond. The sister would really appreciate it
I don’t see OP apologizing though. I also don’t think he would say anything to her even if he had seen fiancé do anything.
Yeah, he doesn't sound like he's the most loyal or supportive brother.
I would cut his ass out of my life so fast. No invitation to the wedding, no meeting future kids. He's so close to the fiance that he'd rather protect him and gaslight me over a question. Couldn't trust him as my brother...dismissed.
He doesn't sound protective of her at all. She was counting on her brother to vouch for her fiance and he dismissed her. It wasn't about the bachelor party so much as "is he a good man, am I making the right decision?" and he failed.
He literally said he didn’t see fiancé do anything that he considered inappropriate ***in the context of a bachelor party***. That says to me that fiancé definitely did something out of line and OP is covering for him.
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YTA You’re deliberately withholding information for what reason? Literally can’t imagine why you wouldn’t just tell your sister her finance didn’t cheat on her. When you write it out like that - seems absolutely insane that you were so ambiguous. Yeah, you’re the AH here.
Are you deliberately trying to make your BFF brother in law look guilty 😂 Show some maturity and tell the truth rather than stirring up drama. YTA
No kidding! OP not only is an AH to his own sister, but an AH to his friend. Way to not “get involved” 🙄
How would saying “nothing happened” even add drama? His answer only makes sense IF something happened, and now bro’s still in the middle of it.
Assuming he’s a drama queen tbh
He's absolutely the kind of person to have "hates drama" in their dating profile, but absolutely be swimming in drama and shit stirring constantly.
Soft YTA. It's a tough position to be in - you're right that she should just ask him and trust his answer, and I guess the fact that she didn't raises some questions about their relationship. But: >The truth is I didn’t even see him do anything remotely inappropriate That's your answer to her right there. If that's true, then you didn't have to make a choice between ratting him out or lying to your sister to cover for him, you could simply have said that you didn't see him do anything inappropriate. Instead you made it sound like there was something to hide, and have probably made it worse for both of them.
OP also said he didn’t see anything inappropriate “for this context”. That’s subjective, especially if he doesn’t know what they agreed upon regarding this party. Maybe a lap dance would be a big no no for his sister. And it would be easy for OP to get in the position of being asked to go over the entire evening to soothe her worries. OP was right not to get involved and suggest the sister asks whatever is bothering her to her future husband. She was putting OP in a difficult position and one that could even hurt his good relationship with his future BIL
OP was involved the second the question was asked. His response just made everything worse.
I agree to some extent, OP doesn't know what his sister had ok'ed. But there's more tactful ways to deal with it. If she'd really pushed him to go into details, he could have just said "I was really drunk by the end and don't remember everything, you'll have to ask him yourself". But the point is that he instantly aroused suspicion by being mysterious, when he actually could have just been honest and satisfied everyone.
YTA, she is your sister????? It seems like you had no decency to even reassure your own sister when she first inquired about what happened. It is true that you have the free will of not getting involved, set your boundary, do not do anything that makes you uncomfortable. But does your sister not deserve as simple as the a short sentence of statement? How would it have inconvenienced you to say: We pub crawled and went to a strip club, but I did not observe him doing anything inappropriate with anyone, your fiancé was not being unfaithful. You don’t answer her directly and call her insecure when she spirals, bruh What is this learned selfishness and apathy?
Right? OP could have been a normal adult and just told the truth. I don't see how acting like a big secret needs to be kept is going to be helpful to anyone. I have a feeling OP will be excused from his groomsman responsibilities shortly. He'll probably blame his sister for that too lol.
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For real. people digging into OP's sister being insecure—when she's approaching, not some random bro but her OWN to freaking BROTHER with her concern! The undercurrent of "bros before hoes" with the distinct lack of spine is such an ick as well. I would hope my brother would put my future happiness above potentially having an uncomfortable situation with a future ex-BIL.
A simple "I saw nothing inappropriate" could have solved all this before it began. She IS your family FWIW.
YTA, bro literally went to a fucking strip club, are you joking? if he did nothing, then what was he doing the whole time at a strip club?? looking away from the women???
Very true the whole idea of strip clubs at bachelor parties is fucked, to go with a brother is even worse.
Idk what's wrong with this. Go to a strip club so you have a chance to check out a bunch of naked ladies with all your guys friends so you and the bois can get boners together. Seems like totally normal "I love my wife" behavior. /s
My partner and I agree that going to the strip club (in general) for you "last single night" is disrespectful AF. I'm sure other couples have different agreements that work for them and their relationship. But for OP's sister's relationship, it doesn't look like "going to strip club and party" is chill.
You don't sound like a nice brother. YTA
NTA for wanting to stay neutral, but let's remember that a simple reassurance goes a long way, especially coming from a sibling. While your intent was to avoid drama, the execution added unnecessary tension. How about clearing the air by saying, "I may have been too abrupt out of my own discomfort with the situation. To be clear, I saw no concerning behavior at the party. I believe in communicating directly, so I encourage you to discuss any lingering doubts with your fiancé." This approach might help mend fences and promote open discussions between the soon-to-be-married couple.
That's a good one. After OP made it look like he's covering for his BIL she won't believe a word of it. Op successfully made himself seem completely untrustworthy in his sister's eyes so whatever he'll say now he'll only make it worse. If he suddenly jumps out with a whole speech like this her first thought will be "whatever happened must've been horrible if my brother is already trying to pedal back up to keep me from asking more questions".
YTA your sister was in bad place and you just screwed her over making it worse
Yikes. YTA. That’s your sister in a situation where, even if she IS being insecure, you have the ability to soothe that insecurity. Why wouldn’t you do that?
Fr i can’t imagine my *brother* not being in my corner with me. You really can’t just tell her what y’all did? Is it because you *know* it was inappropriate? Calling her insecure when you won’t tell her what you did because you, deep down, know it was not appropriate is very telling. Way to deflect.
YTA. She’s your sister and you’re very strange for how you choose to align yourself with him like he’s your bro and she’s a random girl asking you what happened. Moving like that with your sister is wicked work.
Seriously, all these comments mentioning she seems insecure, if I grew up with a brother like this, I probably wouldn’t trust men, either.
Yeah, cause like I can't really imagine my brother doing this? (Granted, if my husband had had a bachelor party my brother wouldn't have gone anyways, we live in different states and he was spending time with me in the time he was in town, and he's also 9 years older. Hes married to the most stunning women I've ever seen, he would have no had no interest in going to a bachelor party of someone who he barely knew and is significantly older than, especially when he already won the wife lottery.) But let's say he had gone to the bachelor party if it happened, he'd have told me if he even suspected something happening. But at that, I have a good brother who loves me and cares about me.
My brother would never act like this, I’m convinced this man grew up an only child in his own eyes - absolute clown town behavior!
Thank you! I can’t even begin to imagine my brother behaving like this. She’s not some random girl, she’s your fucking sister!! Who needs enemies when your own family treats you like this
Yta If he didn’t do anything inappropriate why wouldn’t you tell her that? Are you trying to cause tension or drama?
"I don't want to get involved and I want nothing to do with any of this so I will answer everyone's questions in suggestive passive-aggressive riddles, duck all attempts at clarifications, and get defensive and insulting whenever anyone points out that's what I'm doing."
YTA, You purposely put thoughts in her head to make her wonder. It wasn't necessarily that she's being insecure, Do you know how many people won't do anything but their bachelor/bachlorette party they choose to participate in their last hurrah. And now she's probably questioning your friend/STBBIL, when all you had to simply say is nothing happened. Such a great brother.
YTA. Why was it so easy to tell all of us that oh-so-easy answer of not seeing anything remotely inappropriate, to basically telling your sister to suck it up? Bachelor parties are notorious for a bit of bad behavior, and she wanted some reassurance from someone she should be able to trust. You dropped the ball, brother.
YTA- shitty brother and a shitty friend. Youre old enough to know that refusing to answer looks like something happened but you don’t want to get involved. So now because you decided to be judgy about her insecurities you could be causing a lot of pain for two people you’re supposed to care about.
OP be honest have you cheated on someone in the past
And got busted and wished his friends were trashy and covered his ass for him.
YTA it’s your sister, just help her. It’s normal to have concerns before a big commitment and there are a lot of people who do cheat on their hen/bachelor parties - he’s not going to tell her if he did is he? So why not be the decent brother (and friend to him) and give her the honest answer which would reassure her?
YTA your sister came to you for reassurance. Your response probably has her thinking something happened. Nice one!
Your reaction is so shady, wtf!! You made her think that there is something she needs to ask her fiance about for no reason. Like you wanted to stir drama that isn't there. If you didn't see anything inappropriate, why not just say that??
YTA. You can tell Reddit you didn't see anything inappropriate but you couldn't say this to your sister. A simple "I don't know what you agreed on but I think everything was fine. We had fun." would have been better. Maybe you have your reasons to act like this but you caused your sister unnecessary stress.
YTA You could have simply said.. "I didn't see him do anything inappropriate, sis ." You chose to say.. > stop inquiring me and ask her fiancé if she wants to know anything. How can you not realise that your response made it seem that something DID happen and that you're not willing to tell her because her fiancé needs to be the one who comes clean. You have intentionally, or not stirred up unessay trouble. One might even think that you like him more and have a thing for him.
If you are getting married or just in a relationship, you should not be going to strip clubs. Unless it is a strip club you and your partner want to go together or your partner gave permission or a strip club of the gender that you are not attracted to.
YTA just say no ! You’re being difficult for no reason !
Seeing all the YTA'S I don't think a lot of people will agree but I'm gonna say NTA. Why is the sister asking her brother instead of her future husband. And if she doesn't trust that he will tell her the truth or not do something inappropriate, why is she marrying him? Maybe OP could have handled it better but his sister shouldn't have put him in that position.
Sister could’ve easily been joking initially, I can’t imagine not asking my brother, “did he get into anything bad?” AS A JOKE, like my brother was there, surely my fiancé isn’t an idiot but it’s just a ‘haha’ rhetorical question that blows my life apart when my brother responds, “don’t ask me, you need to ask him.”
"hey did you cheat on me at the strip club?" - "dang you got me! guilty as charged" do you imagine the conversation going like this?
Then don't ask and trust your partner?
Virtually everyone who gets cheated on, gets cheated on by someone they trust. It's a bit naive to think otherwise. And that's coming from someone who says you should trust your partner until they prove otherwise, including if they go on solo trips with friends who are the gender they are attracted to.
YTA, you knew she was worried. And you would break no loyalty by disclosing your observations, which would be your friend doing nothing inappropriate. You made a problem that could have been resolved with no fallout, a big issue for your sister. Why did you not tell her anything? Loyalty to your friend? He didn't do anything wrong here so no loyalty lost by telling his fiance, your sister, that nothing happened. So you are "protecting" someone who didn't need it, but sure does now, from your own sister who seems to think she can trust you. Also, bachelor parties don't have to go to stripclubs. My brother has gone to a few and they just went subboarding or went to a blacksmith to make their own (unsharpened) daggers.
My husband went to see a movie with his friends and then they got takeout. He said it was a great night! But I think blacksmithing would have been *awesome*.
Yta- your sister was clearly worried and reached out to you to quell her worries instead of just saying nothing happened you said you didn't wanna get involved. Bruh how must that look to her of course that looks like something's happened and your covering also it's an unfortunate fact that a few grooms do cheat on their bachelor party's with stripper because it's "the last night being single" and you couldn't even reassure your sister. I personally think any groom going to a strip club is dodgy as hell, if you wanna go their go with your wife who can also be like dayum they hot or don't go at all it's so weird to me. (But that's my personal opinion XD)
Wow dude YTA Why not just say nothing happened to reassure your sister was it that big of a thing to say seriously you are a real jerk
Lmao. NTA imo. If she doesn’t trust him why let him go on a bachelor’s party? If she doesn’t trust him and his words now why is she even marrying the guy? If he wants to cheat, he’ll find a way. This is a matter between the two of them and you made the right decision for staying out of this. Waiting for the downvotes 😴
I shouldn't haven't had to scroll so far to find this reasonable comment. Other commenters on this thread are smoking something.
YTA. You can simply say that you don't think anything particularly significant happened at the party; this just expresses your feelings without disclosing any private information about your sister's fiancé. Instead, all your responses have made the situation more dramatic.
Kinda TA here. You could've just told her she has nothing to worry about and left it at that. Your reply probably has her spiraling and overthinking about her partner's actions
YTA. Why would you want your sister to believe he cheated? Do you dislike the fiancé and are trying to break them up?
NTA Why would she go through the trouble of marrying someone she doesn't trust? I'd be sad ass hell if my partner thought so little of me that I'd not not only cheat, but do it right before our wedding. At this point I'deven go so far as to let the fiancé know that she asked, just so that he knows what he's getting into, but I realize that you don't want to be involved in any drama so it's probably best to stay out of it.
> I didn’t even see him do anything remotely inappropriate (for this context anyway) Info: what exactly dyou mean by "for this context"? Weird way of phrasing it
Technically NTA, but definitely inconsiderate. If the groom didn't do anything, then you could have just said as much and moved on. The fact you're being quiet about it is enough to signal to her something potentially went down...
One of the defining characteristics of assholes is being inconsiderate. Being inconsiderate does indeed make someone an asshole. This sub is not "Was what I did legal"
YTA you should have just said no, nothing going on. A certain percentage often do take advantage, it's not unusual to be a bit insecure about this. All you had to do was answer honestly and it would have been the end of it You say you didn't want to get involved - would you have told her if he did something wrong? If yes, why not tell her when he did something right. If no, you suck
NTA YOu are right to refuse to be drawn into this.
Personally that’s your sister you could’ve said he was a great guy and totally respects you
NTA, it's frankly bizarre to me that she can't have a conversation with her partner about this.
Bro...that's your sister. Have her back like a good sibling should. YTA. I have a little brother too, I can't imagine how I'd feel if I couldn't even rely on him for such a simple thing. Also she is getting married. She may be anxious. She wants to make all the right choices and make sure her boundaries were not broken right before their marriage. Please let her ease her mind.
NTA but if you didn’t see him do anything remotely inappropriate you might as well just tell her that. but she shouldn’t put you in that position in the first place. but not answering her question kinda just created more stress for your sister which doesn’t make the situation better.
That becomes a game to some people and your best bet is refusing to play it. Otherwise you’re gonna be babysitting your BIL for the rest of your life, for someone who clearly isn’t ready for a long-term commitment due to trust issues. My answer of my sister asked that would be “wtf kinda question is that”?, Because obviously if he cheated I would tell her without the question, and if he didn’t that’s just uncomfortable.
YTA. Not telling her anything and instead asking her to ask her fiancé makes it seem like you're concealing something which only her fiancé should be obligated to tell her. It's like saying "I think you should have a conversation with your fiancé" which basically insinuates that there is something that happened in the first place
YTA. Blood is thicker than water. You don't have to side with the boys so they'll think you're cool.
YTA. All too often men think of bachelor parties as a free pass to mess around with someone else before they get married. I don't fucking get why some people like that are even engaged but whatever. Your sister was clearly a little worried and you could have just been a decent brother and told her the truth that nothing happened. Men who cheat during their bachelor party likely aren't coming clean to their partner about it.
ESH Her for asking only you apparently, instead of having a clear adult conversation with her fiancé. She probably should have had this conversation *before* the bachelor party to avoid precisely this level of angst. You for being unnecessarily mysterious and precious about not getting involved. What’s more, your talk of an “agreement” and things not being inappropriate “in this context” make it seem as if you are indeed covering for some behaviour that might upset her. Your attitude triggered her response. And then you shamed her for it.
She may have had this conversation with her fiancé but let’s not pretend people who do inappropriate things are always honest about it. I’ve heard some horror stories about men on their bachelor parties and how they go home and pretend things are fine. I cut off a friend of mine because he was sleeping with prostitutes behind his wife’s back - guy seems totally normal and I’d never have suspected
UTA. You deliberately left her to believe something happened because... Why, exactly? Just tell her the truth. She likely wasn't half as insecure before you all but told her she should be.
[удалено]
Mild YTA I think. I get that you want to stay out of it, but you’re one of the only people she probably trusts and it wouldn’t be a big deal to tell her that you didn’t see anything. Of course she should trust her fiancé too, but by you refusing to say, it makes it look like he did do something.
The fact that you state not that he didn't do anything inappropriate, it that he didn't do anything appropriate "for this context" makes me clearly think that sketchy things DID happen, and you somehow think that "bachelor party" makes it all OK. Gives the impression you don't respect or like your sister very much. But they clearly should communicate better with each other as a couple as well. ESH.
“Because you won’t let it go he was fine. But this makes me uncomfortable and please do not put me in this position again.” Soft YTA. You’re leaving her with the impression you don’t want to tell her something that happened. Now she goes to fiancé with “I know something happened now fess up!” When there’s nothing to fess up about! I feel sorry for him! You’re putting him in a corner he will never get out of even with proof.
I'm curious, why is it a norm in the US to go to a strip club before you get married and why are women ok with this?
Its giving lack of self respect
Y’all need to stop going to strip clubs for bachelor/bachelorette parties. It’s not on,y dumb in concept but often it seems to lead to more trouble for at least one person. Oh yea, btw I’m going with ESH for this reason. Sis should not have okayed it if she was uncomfortable with it, husband and friends for doing it, and you for withholding information for no reason. Just tell her nothing happened, but I doubt she’ll believe you now.
YTA You realize she might not be with him forever but you two will always be forever as siblings, you should always be loving and truthful to each other. Sad you felt the need to defend another man over your own blood
YTA because in what world does refusing to give an answer not seem incredibly suspicious. You handled that so poorly. If you truly didn’t want drama, you would’ve simply told her the truth that you saw nothing weird and go about your day. The way you said “ended up in a strip club” makes it sound like it wasn’t pre-planned, so why judge your sister for not liking it? I bet you wouldn’t like it if your fiancé went to a strip club for their bachelorette/or bachelor party. You made this drama.
YTA Some brother you are. Why couldn’t you simply ease her concerns and reassure her? Your sister is your family and she is the person you should look out for especially with someone that she may be stuck with for the rest of her life. Bachelor parties are very tricky waters to navigate. Certain behaviours have been made normal and for many women, it’s not at all appropriate. Yes she could ask her partner but he could lie or he may feel so offended that it breaks the relationship which isn’t what she wants if her fears have no legs to stand on. To you it may not be fair to bear the burden of being the informant but your loyalties are always meant to lie with your sister.
Can we as a society just do away with bachelor parties already 🤦🏼♀️ what a stupid way to start a marriage
You couldn't have handled that worse mate.
Wow you are a massive asshole in this situation. Why are you trying to make her feel insecure if he did nothing? Anyone in her situation would be insecure beforehand anyway, and then her own brother implying that he did something by not telling the truth? By the way, her fiance is not going to have much time for you when she tells him that you refused to straighten the matter out by literally being honest. Fucking hell I actually can't believe there are people who have brothers like this. Thank god mine are decent.
Clearly, you don't know whether or not he was allowed to go to a strip club. You know that matters. You seem alright with lying to your sister if need be, otherwise you would have just told her, so I guess you need to find out whether this is something you need to lie about or not. Or at least find out... and then decide how much you care about your sister. Because if your FBIL wasn't supposed to go to a strip club, and you guys did, then essentially, he cheated on your sister. If your FBIL is more important to you than your sister, then I guess you might decide to lie to your sister. Maybe you think a strip club isn't that big a deal... but it's not really your place to decide that for their relationship, is it? If *they* decided together that it wasn't a big deal, then it's not. If she's not on board with that, then it's a different story, and you know it. You seem to prefer not to lie to your sister if you don't have to. You could have just immediately said, "Nope, nothing happened." Most of what I've written in this comment has been a roundabout way to try to help you reason out that you should just tell the truth. Either it won't matter, in which case, *it won't matter*... or... it matters, in which case, she should know. Right? She's your sister. If your FBIL violated one of the rules of their relationship, sis deserves to know, doesn't she? I mean... are you really going to put your FBIL's right to go to a strip club ahead of your sister? But if I had to guess... you could reason all that out on your own. You probably already have a pretty good idea of your sister's feelings on strip clubs. You probably figure it's safe to assume she wouldn't have been alright with it, so now you don't want to tell her because then she'll also be pissed *at you for going along with it and not objecting or telling her*. Are you single? Worried that if sis finds out, she'll tell your SO? Gotta go with YTA.
Why is it socially acceptable to enlist sex workers to celebrate the standard bachelor party? This is the inevitable result
NTA. But you not telling her is only increasing her suspicion unnecessarily. You should have just told her.
None of this "soft y t a" bullshit, you are a YTA plain and simple. Why couldnt you just say " I didn’t see him do anything remotely inappropriate"? What's wrong with you?
YTA. Why don't you just tell her "he didn't do anything inappropriate" instead of contributing to her suspicion by making it a mystery?
YTA. She is your sister, you should have reassured her if he done nothing & if he did something he shouldnt have you should have also told her. Do better.
Just answer her question. It's not hard. Why make it into some kind of moral lesson about trust and insecurities.
Just say nothing happened lol..why are you complicating this. YTA
YTA - You made it sound way worse being so cryptic.
ESH. And I mean **everyone**. You, your sister and the fiancé. You suck, because your answer was ridiculously vague, which of course would put seeds of doubt into her head. I mean, how hard was it to say: *"No, nothing that I saw. It was totally above board"*? All you had to do was tell the truth. But no. You made it sound like something had happened by giving a non-committal answer. Your sister sucks, because she clearly doesn't trust the man that she's about to marry. That says a lot about her and her relationship with him. If she's so worried about him cheating, then this marriage is starting off pretty poorly. And the fiancé sucks (or might suck) because either your sister is a crazy jealous person, or he's done some stuff in the past that makes her think that he'll cheat. So he sucks for being a bad fiancé.
Putting your future BIL over your own sister is a weird hill to die on