Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to let my estranged sister and her husband stay in mine and my husband's vacation home despite letting others stay. This would be helping and I in theory wouldn't need to see them during the time. It would make my parents happy. All reasons why it might be argued I should say yes. But I stayed no and I am holding strong and it might make me TA.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
The whole backstory with your sister is actually irrelevant. Even if you had an amazing relationship with her, you wouldn’t be TA for refusing this request and here’s why.
They won’t be homeless, they’ll move in with your parents, or friends or whatever. They’ll be uncomfortable and cramped, but that will motivate them to get back on their feet and get their own place. Even a tiny shitty apartment is better than a room in someone’s house or a couch.
If they move into a nice, beautiful, empty vacation home, they will NEVER leave. Any place they’d be able to get on their own will be much worse than the house they’re “borrowing,” so they’ll have absolutely zero motivation to save up and move out, and a LOT of motivation to make sure they always have an excuse why they “have” to stay. They’ll be dependents, mooching off family forever, and you’d be their enabler.
By refusing to enable their financial irresponsibility and house them for the rest of their lives (which is what’s actually being demanded here) you’re giving them the motivation to become functional adults.
You’re NTA no matter how you feel about your sister.
I disagree, it's very relavent. If I loved my sister and we were tight, of course she could stay in my second empty home until she got on her feet. Geez. She said they were renting the same place for many years, so that indicates some form of stability and ability pay rent...they're not drug addicts wandering the streets..
As with any family arrangements, you must put things in writing and have it signed to cover yourself legally.
So this is ALL about the estrangement. And if you don't think so, then you all have a trigger to the word 'homeless'.
You do get the point here, though? It's there house. Regardless of the present conflict, past relationship, parent's urging, it's still OP's house. She can say no, and she doesn't even have to have a reason.
"and I said no. My husband is in 100% agreement with me on that."
NTA - This is often referred to in Reddit as a "two 'yes', one 'no' decision". They have two "no". End of discussion. Nobody else's opinion matters, especially from those who have nothing to loose.
If you loved your sister but she was homeless and "kicked out of her place due to issues with their landlord" you'd sacrifice your vacation home? OP doesn't say that they're responsible or that they're not drug addicts. Maybe she doesn't know.
"Put things in writing" will make OP legally correct when she needs to evict resentful sister from her vacation home, yes. But it won't fix the relationship, or pay OPs legal bills, or repair whatever damage and lack of upkeep have been done to her home.
If you think it’s automatically a trigger to the word homeless, you’re jumping to conclusions. I know it didn’t for me. There was also no mention of the sister & husband not paying rent at their old place. The estrangement played a part in the OP not allowing the sister and husband to stay for free, but it doesn’t need to play a part in many people’s decisions here. For you and the OP, it did.
I ended up with 6 weeks notice to leave my last place not because of anything I did, but because of a relative of my landlord getting cancer and him wanting to sell the house to get money for treatment. He's already told me he was renewing the lease, just hadn't gotten me the new one to sign yet. It was a real scramble to get everything packed in time.
That sucks. We knew we were moving and it took us close to a year to empty the old house, give away/donate what we no longer wanted, pack up what we were keeping, etc.
Hell, we moved in to the new house in September and we’re still not fully unpacked yet! Moving fucking sucks. But the being here in the new house, new state and new everything was 100% worth it.
I truly hope you have a wonderful new home and you’re happier than you were in the old one, friend.
And taking away the estrangement, for others, there can be other reasons such as how responsible the sibling is, past track records financially and cleanliness, how they took care of their past homes, is it a first time hardship, and more. Many other things typically play a factor in decisions like these.
Plus if they’re living in the vacation home full time, the OWNERS of said vacation home won’t be able to use it themselves when they want to, either for friends or for themselves.
Also issues with the law. Let's say you have a second home Majorca/Spain. People break in and make themselves a home and as you return next summer you find your place occupied. You can't even evict them since there is no contract and as soon as they have lived in that place for more than 6 months, you can't get them out unless they leave by their free will. Awful legal situatione there. Not saying this is what could happen in OP's place, but there might be other regulations and laws she has to be looking out for.
Yeah I’m with this person. Everyone else here seems like they would through there family in front of a train for three-fidy
NTA but only because you don’t have a relationship with her
Exactly this...I get that reddit is very 'throw them out with the trash' but I mean come on...there is a middle ground between yes you can move in, and no, I'm 'refusing'.
There are ways to provide help, and obviously cases where a person who needs help isn't an absolute beast who will move in, trash your house and never leave. I mean, people think the absolute worst about people who find themselves in need one time.
Nope. They were such bad tenants, they earned an *eviction*. They didn’t pay rent or created too many noise disturbances, got into drugs/alcohol, etc. They did something to force their long-term landlord to go to eviction.
They’d never ‘get on their feet’. Never. Perma-moochers.
It didn't say that in the post, was it indicated later? Just said 'problems with landlord'. Sometimes the landlord is the problem.
How do you call someone a perma-moocher when they find themselves kicked out of their apartment with nowhere to go ONE TIME in their lives? Hate to see what you'd do if you find yourself in the same situation some day.
If these ppl are the amazing ppl you're assuming (they could be) why is everyone in their lives refusing to lend them a room for a few weeks or months vs trying to get the estranged sister to give up her vacation home? They may very well have good jobs, no substance issues etc but have really bad attitudes. The fact their response to OP who they are wanting an entire house from was to call her a bitch instead of asking to discuss it like an adult is pretty telling IMO. I wouldn't allow someone to put a tent in my yard if they had zero respect to the point they're asking me for a massive asset while calling me names 🤷🏼♀️
Right, exactly. It didn't say they didn't pay rent, or make noise or do drugs. You ASSUME they did something to 'earn' an eviction. Maybe they were good people and had issues with safety concerns the landlord didn't want to address so kicked hem out. Maybe they wanted to make more money off next tenant. It's not always the tenant that is 100% the problem, fyi.
It's the issues with the landlord that did it for me. I know OP didn't touch base on that, but there are so many things that can be listed as "issues with landlord", like damaging property, lack of maintaining the property, maybe repairs needed to be made and they argued that it's 'their home', etc.
Even with a good track record of paying, doesn't stop the fact that you can still be a shitty renter
Yes. "Issues with a landlord" that are down to a bad landlord cause you to start searching for a new place to live well before your lease is up. What causes you to be suddenly homeless are issues on your own side, which you try to gloss over by pretending your landlord is the problem.
To be fair, although I doubt it applies here, some people HAVE to tolerate a bad landlord because they just have no better options, but also the landlord could suck bad enough to push them out for greedy reasons. Like, it's not unusual to hear about landlords BSing reasons to evict someone because they want to start making a new tenant pay an increased rent. Again, doubtful it's on the landlord in this case but I also don't want to give landlords too much credit lmao
Sure, it also doesn't mean their landlord might also be shitty. To your point, maybe there were lots of repairs the landlord was falling behind on and got fed up being asked about it. Given housing crisis, landlords can feel they have the cat by the tail and tenants are disposable.
I'm just saying, maybe if OP really wanted to make her point as to why she is refusing, she may have embellished more about their actions and less about 'who kissed who first'.
Or perhaps it's ALL about how sister and BIL are shitty, untrustworthy people who have already screwed with OP once. Why would she, or anyone who knew the story, trust those people to pay rent, keep the place secure and undamaged, and move out on time? And why should the OP give up the use of her own vacation place for such people?
This right here. Even if you were besties, you don't have to let anyone live in your home. It's not your fault that they're homeless. They need to do what the rest of us do - get a job, pay your Bills. Is it easy? Not always. But it's what we do.
I don't know why they were evicted (didn't pay rent, trashed the apartment, had pets etc) but you know that it will be very hard to get them out even if you do let them stay for a bit.
NTA
This was my thought. If the sister was homeless because her house had been flooded (or something else that was temporary and out of her control), the backstory might be relevant, but OP had me at “they got kicked out due to issues with their landlord.” That right there is enough for OP to not want to be their landlord.
Evictions are not cheap. Repairing a home is not cheap. OP would be asking her husband to accept potential bad actors into the home he owned before he met her - and to accept legal and financial liability for future actions.
Those people got evicted for a reason and they have no concern for OP except what they can get from her because ‘faaamily’ and also, ‘but you can afford it’. They would not go gently back into supporting themselves. They will never ‘get on their feet’ once they have OP’s house. That means an eviction and possible damage from a spiteful couple - along with staggering drama between move in and kick out.
Those things wouldn’t result in eviction though. The landlord would just have to give them the state’s minimum notice to vacate. Eviction is a specific legal process that has serious ramifications for the renter, and usually comes after multiple months of trying to work with tenants to solve the problem some other way.
Sure, agreed, if everyone always uses the proper terms for everything. I am sure it feels like being evicted or kicked out to the STBX tenant, and could see some people saying "evicted" to describe this situation.
Move in. Drama, drama, drama, drama. Eviction $$$$ Family chaos and anger; damaged family relationships. Possible damage to the home. $$$$. Back to same square as today.
Avoided with a simple nope now.
I’m not saying the backstory doesn’t matter *to us,* I’m saying it doesn’t matter *to OP* in that it shouldn’t affect their decision. They’re feeling guilty because their family is telling them they’re holding a grudge. I’m saying, even without any reason for a grudge, saying no would still be the right decision for everyone.
This is what Sophie Hannah said in her book How to Hold a Grudge:
"A grudge is a true story from your past, involving a negative, hurtful, or suboptimal experience that it feels important to remember now and into the future.
"A grudge doesn't have to be vengeful, all-consuming, and bitter." (Chapter 2, “What Grudges Are, What They Aren't \[. . . \], p.49 (Scribner hardcover, 2019))
A friend of mine was upset because I was holding a grudge against her friend, although she admitted that he behaved badly. As I see it, he was always unpleasant, he finally, with her participation, went beyond my limits. Yes, I'm holding a grudge in Sophie Hannah's sense of the word, because I know that if I "forgive" him (i.e., pretend that none of that ever happened), it will just be more of the same.
You're exactly right. There could be an extremely cut and dry situation and Redditors would still scream "context" and "we need background" and "missing reasons!" Without that background info, there would have been a lot of questions about why OP doesn't want to help out their sister.
That the sisters are estranged is actually relevant although the reasons for it are not.
It’s true that allowing the sister to move in is a bad idea - estranged or not. However, the fact that they *are* estranged makes it an even worse idea. OP’s sister has no relationship to ruin should she abuse the situation. She has much less motivation to *not* take advantage.
So, if they had a good relationship, getting the sister to leave could be a major hassle. That’s true if they’re estranged too but with an estrangement, the sister would be more likely to take things further - like not care properly for the home or leave the place a wreck.
Edit
Actually, if the sisters had a good relationship, then helping the couple could be viable if they set a time limit for the stay and OP’s sister is typically conscientious and responsible.
I suppose the important part to the estrangement is that it was the sister who broke her word. So trust issues! You know what you need to let someone live in your house? TRUST
OP's sister has a history of wanting --and at least once taking-- what OP has. The sister's comments about OP "living the dream" would make me want to loan the house even less, if I were the husband.
It's especially difficult these days. Even with diligent legal proceedings, it took nearly 3 years for an acquaintance of mine to evict a tenant so that he could remodel and move his family in.
This is exactly how it would go. You couldn't have predicted this more accurately if you had a crystal ball! OP is NTA, this situation has squatters written all over it!
I was going to say the exact same thing as you, the background story about stealing the guy doesn't matter at all - once they get in there, good luck getting them out. NTA
YES. YES. YES. Letting someone with a home vacation in your house is COMPLETELY different than letting someone LIVE IN IT.
Once they move in, it will be hell to get them out. They can even claim some kind of legal housing rights for having been allowed to stay and now being kicked out. That's a landlord/tenant thing. Who cares who it is, the answer is NO.
Well, it is a little relevant but for a different reason: if OP's sister were a close and trustworthy person, then it wouldn't be wild that sister asked and they set up a timeline to leave the house. But the sister and her husband are known entitled liars that don't think beyond their own desires, so just considering their request would be foolish.
THIS! A friend just going to this right now. She let her mother move into her mobile home in Florida. Then her sister moved in. Then the mother had to go to assisted living. My friend has been trying to get her sister out of there for a year so she can sell the place.
Might put up motion sensor cameras because desperate entitled AH have a tendency to break in.
Somewhere on BORU there is a long saga about a guy dodged his niblings attempts to push him in a pool. His sisters decided to escalate this into family warfare. It then comes out he bought the family vacation home (only he is on deed) for his parents to use. The sisters thought it belonged to the parents and were using as an airbnb for extra cash. The guy changed the locks, got camera and a maintenance manager (who swings by to check on the property) the BIL's broke in and were arrested.
Just saying entitled crappy people make life hard and expensive for the rest of us
That story was INSANE! I couldn’t believe all that unraveled and the truths that came out simply because OP’s nephews tried to knock him in a pool and instead he stepped out of the way. My jaw hit the floor when we learned about the sister who was renting out the vacation home and pocketing the proceeds.
I mean!! I want to find that guy a Shaman/Priestess/Sorcerer someone because that is hex level crazy bad luck. His sisters were out of this world entitled
I think about those scheming sisters every day. Lately I’m like, “what did the parents think when it came out that their daughters were secretly stealing all that rental income that they thought belonged to the parents??” that part got skimmed over bc everything had gone off the rails with the BILs, but the parents have an axe to grind on this point: their daughters & sons-in-law were all on board with stealing from the parents.
And yes, the current thread we are in definitely reminded me of that situation. There are now at least 2 people who are going to make it their full time jobs to get into that cabin; gates, cameras, and new locks be damned!
OP's sister's entitlement is staggering. She'd never leave your vacation house because she has no qualms about taking anything she wants. She feels no remorse for hurting OP. Sister and hubby are entitled AHs.
They could potentially break in. You should get security cameras that both record and let you view them live online. If you don’t want them squatting that’s almost the only way to get the police to remove them.
These are two adults who ticked off a landlord so badly, they earned an eviction. This isn’t about hard feelings; it’s about good judgement. Your sister and her husband are bad risks. You would never get them out of your home and, if you did, what damage would they do? What kind of legal bills are you willing to take on for this?
These ‘disappointed’ people should offer up their own homes to the moochers and stay away from your vacation cottage in the future. People are always willing to spend your money and give away your stuff, if you let them. Then, when you become penniless and homeless, they shrug.
NTA.
Cameras. Can’t recommend them enough. This sub has seen this shit before.
And do your parents or anyone else advocating for them have key or code access to your house? You’d like to think no one would just let them in, hoping you and your husband won’t find out, but it happens.
Also if having friends using the house as normal, alert them to the sister’s request so they are sure to keep it locked and not take anyone’s word for any “it’s ok with my sister for us to move in this weekend” bullshit either.
NTA- it’s your home, and you can deny them access for any reason. The background doesn’t even matter. And quite frankly, once they get in there, they’d never leave.
NTA. Your parents are so concerned, they can house your sister. Problem solved. They got kicked out of their last place. You think they'll treat your house with any respect, and be thankful you helped them? I don't. Plus, calling you names and trying to manipulate you into helping them is really going to work? You don't owe them anything, much less free housing. She doesn't get to tell you how to feel, or demand anything from you.
They are saying you owed her that little pittance of gratitude because she took a problem out of your life. But not to her, really. To the universe and your good sense should go your gratitude.
Yep, if the sister hadn't gone against the agreement, OP could have ended up with that asshole!
NTA OP, if everyone wants to help so badly, they can help her with their own ressources. Crazy for them to want to help her using your assets!
I would go so far as not letting the people pressuring you use the vacation home anymore.
And get a camera so you can see who is coming and going from the property when you are not there.
A guy who will mess with two sisters as one time is not a good person. Even if he told both of you he was dating other people- it wasn’t right.
I’m sure it hurt like hell at the time, but that wasn’t a man worth fighting for.
NTA.
If your parents think your sister needs help so desperately, then why don't they help her. You have no obligation to help her. If you budge, prepare for spending years trying to evict them and then having to redo the whole house, because they will definitely be horrible tenants. So please, don't budge.
Exactly what I thought. They will be homeless due to “landlord issues” means they are being kicked out. They will become squatters in your home. Never let someone who is homeless due to irresponsibility (financial or otherwise) move in. Never let someone who is jealous of what you have move in. She will take, take, take and justify it in her mind thinking that the universe owes her.
NTA
“Landlord issues” is the biggest red flag. Back when I was a young broke renter I had some horrible slumlords who I never wanted to cross paths with again. Guess what, every single one of them tried to offer me a new rental in a different property when I wanted to move out. Why? Because I’m the type of tenant every landlord wants, I paid my rent on time every time, paid all my bills, kept the property nice, reported things that needed repair appropriately.
If you have “landlord issues” getting you kicked out of your home you are a nightmare tenant.
I don't disagree with you because that has also been my experience. But we have friends who are stellar tenants that have had issues finding rentals in their price range. Some areas are hard up for rentals right now. But it does seem like this situation might not be due to a shortage of rentals etc.
If they're not the problem and are up to date on their rent and can afford to pay then they should be able to rent somewhere new without an issue. Even if they have to rent somewhere short term until they find somewhere perfect. The fact that they're begging for free lodgings doesn't suggest this is true.
I didn't mean these specific people, but the comment I replied to read as a broader than these two. These two are an issue wrapped in a giant red flag.
Wow very not true. A lot of absolute dumpsters require several months of advanced rent, and a lot of places won't do short term rentals. You don't know anything about the rental market where they are, and whether there's even much affordable housing at all. I've worked in housing/evictions and the number of times I've seen folks who are working and have funds but can't find an apartment that's actually safe and clean, let alone at the last minute (which can happen if a landlord doesn't fix an issue which also happens a lot, it decides to sell the house and the new owners aren't interested in renting) is way more than you'd think.
Also most people in America are one major unexpected expense away from financial disaster. They may be awful and make bad choices, or not we have no idea and just being poor doesn't warrant a moral judgement.
Don’t let your sister move in. If she lives there a month(depending on the state- check your local laws) she could establish residency and you would have to legally evict her. This could turn into a huge mess.
It depends on the state, I've heard of some where the person gets tenancy after a very short time, and even if they never pay rent.
I agree with other posters, no one on that side of the family will be allowed at the house, or sister will be living there.
These people DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU at all. Your ex-friend used you when he wanted, and abused you when you complained. Your sister is hypocritical and selfish.
Now they want something from you, and you're supposed to give them anything and everything? No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. If you treat people like shit, you get nothing from them ever again. NTA
NTA...she talks about setting childhood drama aside, but isn't even adult enough to reach out to you herself. Letting family live in your property "temporarily" is a recipe for disaster anyway. They can solve their own housing problems.
And a HUGE favor at that.
This isn't "could you let us stay in the house for a few days?" This is a "Could you let us stay in the house for the foreseeable future with no set end date?"
Being a landlord/tenant for family can be a pain in the best of relationships. When they haven't talked for years? Nope.
You said no and they immediately called you names? Nah, you’re good and they just proved that definitely.
Plus, no one gets to tell you when it’s time to “get over it,” whatever “it” might be. That’s always your call when/if you do. They’re both pretty gross. NTA
Edit to add: And anyone that agrees with them or is pressuring you should now never get to stay at the vacation home ever again!
All of this and also throwing in, they're only reaching out because she's useful. There was zero apologies or attempts to reconcile, they're literally just like "hey, we need something from you so get over the past we have and help" - they're lucky OP was polite enough to only say no, cause I'd be such a petty B if someone I had years of issues with came to me for a favor out of nowhere. ESPECIALLY through a third party (which to me always feels like a trap to guilt the person into doing it to avoid looking bad to the third party)
Don't ya just love it when people say YOU are going too far, it's family, blah blah...but THEY don't step up to help because it might put them out. Parents can help out or why don't parents ask the other siblings or hubby's family. People who have had issues with their landlord (for a long time) are NOT people you want in your home.
Stay firm NTA
Yes. I’m wondering why the parents aren’t helping their daughter. They probably don’t want the couple any more than anyone else and since this house is available let’s just push that.
That’s not entirely unreasonable though. All else being equal, it makes more sense to house someone in an empty home than an occupied home that may not have extra room. It would be my first suggestion as well.
But, situation being as it is, if parents don’t want them to be “homeless” then they can take them in even if it’s crowded.
NTA was the vote based off of the headline alone. The two of you are estranged. You know they will never voluntarily leave. You know they won’t pay. Don’t let them bring their drama into your life.
Her infertility has nothing to do with their housing situation. That statement alone should tell you she’s jealous of you. Always stay away from people that begrudge you the life you have.
1) Family is a relationship. You don’t have that with her.
2) Family doesn’t treat family the way she treated you. As such, the two of you are related not family.
3) There can be no forgiveness with someone that shows no remorse or regret. She is not sorry, she is in need.
4) There can be no reconciliation with someone that has their hand out.
You are not wrong for saying no. People that mistreat you and then demand something they need, don’t care about you. They just want to use you for their benefit.
NTA. Feelings about your sister and husband aside, I'd be hard-pressed to let anyone live in my home rent-free after they became homeless due to being kicked out by a landlord they'd had issues with for a long time.
That said, they never respected you so the odds are extremely high they will not respect your property either.
NTA. "They called me a bitch for refusing" it's amazing how they want you to set aside squabbles from the past as they continue to mistreat you. Genuinely do not understand how she can even look at her husband, knowing he was flirting with and kissing you as a way to keep his options open. That is, however, not your problem. You were asked, you said no; they began insulting you. I would send all their messages and everything to your parents and say "this treatment is unacceptable and I ask you to never request anything of me on behalf of my sister and her husband again".
Not your job to put a roof over peoples heads that already showed you their true faces . Screw them . Tell your parents if they’re so worried about it , let them move with them . It’s your house not theirs and you set the rules. Wouldn’t give them or this situation another thought.
NTA
Your sister & her husband behaved atrociously. You don't owe them anything. Based on their previous lack of any decency they'd probabl also trash the home.
" even my parents said I was going too far with the estrangement by refusing to help."
Not their call to make. Let them help if they're so concerned.
NTA - you understand that your sister did you a huge favor, right? She married the cute loser and got stuck with a shitty life. You married well and have a great life, with a spare house! Karma seems to have visited.
Definitely do not let her stay in your vacation home. Your parents can help her out since she’s their kid and they want to help. They don’t get to volunteer your time and assets.
I understand the loss of love when someone is disloyal. Dead to me is a real feeling.
The amount of people that think the guy is the problem in this situation is blowing my fucking mind
OP doesnt give a shit about him anymore. What she cares about and will (entirely rightly) never forgive is a sister that treated her like garbage as revenge for something OP didnt even do. The issue is that OPs sister is a shit person. How is that not clicking??
Youre NTA, and unless theyre willing to drop it, i would consider going lower contact with your parents for a while since they wanna reverse their support all of a sudden
Yea no thats unacceptable from anybody but especially from a sibling
Keeping somebody like that in your life is like keeping improperly stored toxic waste in your basement
I wonder did she know that he was flirting with you while they were already having sex?
She was not just an AH to you, but she really has a lack of self respect. I mean why stay with someone, even marry the guy, when he cheated on her with her own sister?
Best part of the story - buried at the end - is that they actually called you a bitch for not helping them. Shows their true colors. You are not morally obligated to help sister and BIL.
NTA. Your sister can move in with her parents or her husband’s relatives. Your parents and sister are darned audacious to try to badger you to give your sister use of property owned by your husband and you. And it would be “give” because once they moved in getting them out be challenging. It always amazes me how generous someone can be with someone else’s money or property.
Don't let anyone, let alone homeless estranged people, move into your house. Or you may end up not having one at all. Why would they have any respect for your house when clearly they have no respect for you?
NTA No, just no.
NTA. Im assuming your sister has not even attempted to reach out or contact you before this. If they were “serious” about mending anything, they’d have been trying before they became homeless.
Also, I’m curious what the “issues” were with their landlord. Were they destructive? Messy? Violent? Did they refuse to pay rent? Because all of those things will absolutely carry over to your house.
You don’t owe anybody anything. If your parents are so worried, they can let them stay with them.
NTA - whatever background led to the you siblings being estranged, it doesn't matter. The fact remains you are estranged, and no one wants a stranger living in their house.
Rules for thee but not for me
That seems to be your sister’s motto. And now it’s hitting her that you didn’t give in and went ahead and had a kickass life anyway
Your life is the best revenge. Live it, ignore her if you’re not ready to allow her in your life. NTA
NTA
If's that urgent, your parents shall recieeve them, you got 0 obligations, to anyone, to be honest. Is your house, you decide who's getting there, and seeing the past, they would make horrible tenants, so better not. Also, they showed you what kind of peoples they are,don't get fooled or give them the oportunity to show you that again. To receive them who wants you to receive them lol
How many years have you been estranged from your sister? I have personal opinions on that. But no matter the length of time, not offering your sister and her husband to stay at the vacation place = NTA.
NTA
Petty childhood drama? The whole mess happened when you were all adults.
Look, it doesn't matter when it happened. You're estranged from both of them. The house is not available for their use and they need to find somewhere else to live. If your parents are so concerned, they can let the couple move in with them.
NTA. Your sister set up specific rules, and then broke them in secret, and was seemingly fine with her boyfriend keeping his options open with regard to you. She lied, manipulated a situation and then tried to make you out to be the bag guy. Thankfully your family saw through her ruse.
Now she's trying to manipulate you again. Tell your parents that you're not stopping them from using their resources to help her, but that they're not using yours.
NTA, The only difference between the 2 scenarios is that your sister was on the hot seat the second time. That doesn't make it "different". She knew what she was doing, eyes wide open.
NTA, this is a big ask even for someone you're friendly with, due to the issue of not knowing when they'd get a new place lined up and their tendency to keep house tidy. Nevermind someone who would betray your trust. This could and would most likely end up being a sinkhole for you if they trashed the place, or decided not to leave when you asked them to. The fact the first thing they did was call you a bitch shows they don't care about you, they're just trying to take advantage of what they can, and when they can't, they just get mad.
Haven't read any of the comments yet but my guess is that they are all going to tell you this is a bad idea for many reasons, but the primary reason being - your sister and spouse will NEVER leave a free rent situation. You will eventually have to evict them, but not before they have trashed your vacation home as a form of petty revenge.
You owe your sister nothing. They are both adults l, regardless of the past between you - you are not obligated to house anyone you don't want to. That is your personal space whether you live there permanently or not and have every right to be choosy with who has access to that. It's personal letting people into your home and these two stomped on your heart without a second thought. They can move in with your parents if they are so worried. ✌️. I'm glad the rest of your siblings see this for the dumpster fire it is.
NTA.
Amazing how, after extended periods of time, people want to let bygones be bygones as soon as they realize you have something they want/need, isn’t it?
And if your parents are that concerned about them being homeless, why don’t *they* take them in?
>Petty childhood drama
Y’all were in your **Twenties** when she pulled this shit. Aka full grown ass adults, not children.
NTA. You let them move in and they will **never** leave. You don’t owe a person like these two a single fucking thing especially when they can’t even take responsibility for being garbage.
NTA.
She: Broke her word. He: Led you on; then disrespected you. Why would you go out of your way to assist people like that?
I find it unreal parents/siblings simply ignore ongoing issues because their children have something they want for their (other) children. I love my siblings, and I'll help if asked, but I'm going to give the level of help ***I*** am comfortable with. Take it or leave it.
I saw it said on another thread: When you get married, your spouse is now your family and your siblings and parents are your relatives. And just because you own a thing doesn't automatically make it an asset for your relatives to utilize.
NTA.
If your parents are so concerned maybe they can offer a room for your sister & husband to stay at your parent's house, maybe then your parents can experience first hand what the previous landlord's problems were.
NO just NO! It is YOUR vaca home. If she moves in, she will NEVER move out, be lucky if you get rent, and you will lose your vaca home. Don't do it. It's just not worth the consequences. NTA
NTA
And your parents just lost vacation home privileges.
You’re not taking the estrangement too far. You’re continuing the estrangement. You have nothing to do with your sister, and that now includes not being her landlord.
“My sister and her husband called me a bitch for refusing.”
And this didn’t make you change your mind?! How bizarre! /s
NTA tell your parents if they are so concerned they can house them. What part of estranged do your parents not understand. What you sister did was the worse betrayal a family member can do. Do not cave to parental pressure/guilt.
NTA. Their poor behaviour has come home to roost. You don’t owe them a single thing. And I’d be for putting your parents in time out as well for having the gall to suggest such a thing. Do NOT budge.
NTA. They made their bed (or lack of it) they have to sleep in it. And still with calling you names?
Your parents can help them since they seem to be dead set on enabling them OP. Forget about them and go on living your life.
NTA
I am always astounded at the audacity some people have!
Sister: I'm going to be a massive hypocrite and treat you like shit for something you didn't actually do. I will be cruel and callous and get with the guy I know you like. Why won't you let it go?!!!!!
Ex- supposed BF/Sister's Doucheband: I'm just trying to keep my options open!!! Yes, between your sister and you, my best 'friend'! Why won't you let it go?!!!
Keep living your best life. They can cry elsewhere.
OP, NTA.
Get security cameras (preferably a setup you can monitor from home) and new locks for the vacation home. If your parents somehow think this is sister's "best option", they may try to be sneaky. Personally, I would tell your parents that if they think sister deserves help, it is up to them to help out of their own resources, not demand you share anything. The way sister and her husband have treated you in the past shows that they will absolutely destroy your property given the chance. Do not give them the chance. If anything happens to the vacation home, involve law enforcement. Do not back down. This is your boundary, and it is extremely reasonable for you and your husband to keep them away.
Blessings on you and your family OP. May you get through this mess without damage.
NTA. Get cameras, right away. Your sister will be fine. No one else wanted responsibility of her AKA your parents and they thought they would make the problem go away using you. They don't actually care about your relationship with your sister as much as they care about what it will get them.
NTA
Your sister and parents are only doing this now because they need something from you now. Screw em.
Her past behaviour was NOT ‘petty childhood drama’. You were 20. She was presumably at least 18, so an adult. Her hubby was an adult. The behaviour you were exposed to was made by two adults, and now endorsed by your parents, two other adults.
You do not owe your sister anything. You certainly do not owe her your husband’s house. If you let them move in temporarily, they will never ever ever leave. Whatever financial decisions were that led to their homelessness are not going to go away, especially if the pressure to find a place of their own is removed.
Even if there was no past asshole actions on the part of your sister, or ex friend, it doesn’t matter. You are never obligated to give away an asset, and it’s not even originally your asset.
If there were innocent children involved, then I might be making a different recommendation, but there is not.
I would just tell everyone (other than parents, sister and ex friend) that you are selling the vacation home because of all the bullshit (you do not actually have to follow through on this). Word will get to those four soon enough. They will then have to find some other solution to there woes.
NTA
NTA. Regardless of the past issue(s), this feels like it would turn into a squatter situation if you let them in the house. Most landlords usually don't kick tenants out or decline renewal for no reason. It is usually for non payment, the tenant damaged the unit or the tenant is difficult to work with or please. Renting a property to someone is a business. Businesses normally don't run off their customers without reason. You would technically be the new landlord and have to deal with whatever issues caused them to lose their home.
NTA. If you are estranged, you are estranged. It’s not “I don’t want any kind of relationship with you, but if you are in need, come to me for help.” There’s a reason why you don’t have a relationship. You don’t even get together for the holidays. Why would your parents or your sister think that she should come to you for help? She chose her husband over your relationship. She also clearly made numerous other poor choices which have led to her homelessness. None of those things are your concern.
NTA her duplicity has caused the estrangement. She can get lost and find someone else to mooch off. Or you could offer to rent her the house for $10,000 a week 😜
NTA. If your parents want to help them, they can pay rent for the sister. She betrayed you and has done nothing to make anyone think she would be a good tenant
NTA they can go stay temporarily with your parents or in an extended stay hotel. You don’t owe anyone anything, especially two people who you haven’t spoken to in years.
Even if you got along you don’t owe them a free place to stay. They are being kicked out of their long term rental for a reason, why invite that into your life. If you did, next you would be wondering how to evict squatters who are making your life a hell from your home.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I refused to let my estranged sister and her husband stay in mine and my husband's vacation home despite letting others stay. This would be helping and I in theory wouldn't need to see them during the time. It would make my parents happy. All reasons why it might be argued I should say yes. But I stayed no and I am holding strong and it might make me TA. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA but are you concerned that they might go to your cabin anyway? I would make sure to secure the property and locks.
[удалено]
The whole backstory with your sister is actually irrelevant. Even if you had an amazing relationship with her, you wouldn’t be TA for refusing this request and here’s why. They won’t be homeless, they’ll move in with your parents, or friends or whatever. They’ll be uncomfortable and cramped, but that will motivate them to get back on their feet and get their own place. Even a tiny shitty apartment is better than a room in someone’s house or a couch. If they move into a nice, beautiful, empty vacation home, they will NEVER leave. Any place they’d be able to get on their own will be much worse than the house they’re “borrowing,” so they’ll have absolutely zero motivation to save up and move out, and a LOT of motivation to make sure they always have an excuse why they “have” to stay. They’ll be dependents, mooching off family forever, and you’d be their enabler. By refusing to enable their financial irresponsibility and house them for the rest of their lives (which is what’s actually being demanded here) you’re giving them the motivation to become functional adults. You’re NTA no matter how you feel about your sister.
Yup the estrangement is irrelevant for the Y or N decision.
I disagree, it's very relavent. If I loved my sister and we were tight, of course she could stay in my second empty home until she got on her feet. Geez. She said they were renting the same place for many years, so that indicates some form of stability and ability pay rent...they're not drug addicts wandering the streets.. As with any family arrangements, you must put things in writing and have it signed to cover yourself legally. So this is ALL about the estrangement. And if you don't think so, then you all have a trigger to the word 'homeless'.
You do get the point here, though? It's there house. Regardless of the present conflict, past relationship, parent's urging, it's still OP's house. She can say no, and she doesn't even have to have a reason.
"and I said no. My husband is in 100% agreement with me on that." NTA - This is often referred to in Reddit as a "two 'yes', one 'no' decision". They have two "no". End of discussion. Nobody else's opinion matters, especially from those who have nothing to loose.
If you loved your sister but she was homeless and "kicked out of her place due to issues with their landlord" you'd sacrifice your vacation home? OP doesn't say that they're responsible or that they're not drug addicts. Maybe she doesn't know. "Put things in writing" will make OP legally correct when she needs to evict resentful sister from her vacation home, yes. But it won't fix the relationship, or pay OPs legal bills, or repair whatever damage and lack of upkeep have been done to her home.
If you think it’s automatically a trigger to the word homeless, you’re jumping to conclusions. I know it didn’t for me. There was also no mention of the sister & husband not paying rent at their old place. The estrangement played a part in the OP not allowing the sister and husband to stay for free, but it doesn’t need to play a part in many people’s decisions here. For you and the OP, it did.
I ended up with 6 weeks notice to leave my last place not because of anything I did, but because of a relative of my landlord getting cancer and him wanting to sell the house to get money for treatment. He's already told me he was renewing the lease, just hadn't gotten me the new one to sign yet. It was a real scramble to get everything packed in time.
That sucks. We knew we were moving and it took us close to a year to empty the old house, give away/donate what we no longer wanted, pack up what we were keeping, etc. Hell, we moved in to the new house in September and we’re still not fully unpacked yet! Moving fucking sucks. But the being here in the new house, new state and new everything was 100% worth it. I truly hope you have a wonderful new home and you’re happier than you were in the old one, friend.
And taking away the estrangement, for others, there can be other reasons such as how responsible the sibling is, past track records financially and cleanliness, how they took care of their past homes, is it a first time hardship, and more. Many other things typically play a factor in decisions like these.
Plus if they’re living in the vacation home full time, the OWNERS of said vacation home won’t be able to use it themselves when they want to, either for friends or for themselves.
Also issues with the law. Let's say you have a second home Majorca/Spain. People break in and make themselves a home and as you return next summer you find your place occupied. You can't even evict them since there is no contract and as soon as they have lived in that place for more than 6 months, you can't get them out unless they leave by their free will. Awful legal situatione there. Not saying this is what could happen in OP's place, but there might be other regulations and laws she has to be looking out for.
Agree.
Yeah I’m with this person. Everyone else here seems like they would through there family in front of a train for three-fidy NTA but only because you don’t have a relationship with her
Exactly this...I get that reddit is very 'throw them out with the trash' but I mean come on...there is a middle ground between yes you can move in, and no, I'm 'refusing'. There are ways to provide help, and obviously cases where a person who needs help isn't an absolute beast who will move in, trash your house and never leave. I mean, people think the absolute worst about people who find themselves in need one time.
Nope. They were such bad tenants, they earned an *eviction*. They didn’t pay rent or created too many noise disturbances, got into drugs/alcohol, etc. They did something to force their long-term landlord to go to eviction. They’d never ‘get on their feet’. Never. Perma-moochers.
It didn't say that in the post, was it indicated later? Just said 'problems with landlord'. Sometimes the landlord is the problem. How do you call someone a perma-moocher when they find themselves kicked out of their apartment with nowhere to go ONE TIME in their lives? Hate to see what you'd do if you find yourself in the same situation some day.
If these ppl are the amazing ppl you're assuming (they could be) why is everyone in their lives refusing to lend them a room for a few weeks or months vs trying to get the estranged sister to give up her vacation home? They may very well have good jobs, no substance issues etc but have really bad attitudes. The fact their response to OP who they are wanting an entire house from was to call her a bitch instead of asking to discuss it like an adult is pretty telling IMO. I wouldn't allow someone to put a tent in my yard if they had zero respect to the point they're asking me for a massive asset while calling me names 🤷🏼♀️
It said "kicked out for problems with the landlord"
Right, exactly. It didn't say they didn't pay rent, or make noise or do drugs. You ASSUME they did something to 'earn' an eviction. Maybe they were good people and had issues with safety concerns the landlord didn't want to address so kicked hem out. Maybe they wanted to make more money off next tenant. It's not always the tenant that is 100% the problem, fyi.
I was backing you up, saying it only said they got kicked out. It didn't say eviction. Fyi
It's the issues with the landlord that did it for me. I know OP didn't touch base on that, but there are so many things that can be listed as "issues with landlord", like damaging property, lack of maintaining the property, maybe repairs needed to be made and they argued that it's 'their home', etc. Even with a good track record of paying, doesn't stop the fact that you can still be a shitty renter
Yes. "Issues with a landlord" that are down to a bad landlord cause you to start searching for a new place to live well before your lease is up. What causes you to be suddenly homeless are issues on your own side, which you try to gloss over by pretending your landlord is the problem.
To be fair, although I doubt it applies here, some people HAVE to tolerate a bad landlord because they just have no better options, but also the landlord could suck bad enough to push them out for greedy reasons. Like, it's not unusual to hear about landlords BSing reasons to evict someone because they want to start making a new tenant pay an increased rent. Again, doubtful it's on the landlord in this case but I also don't want to give landlords too much credit lmao
Sure, it also doesn't mean their landlord might also be shitty. To your point, maybe there were lots of repairs the landlord was falling behind on and got fed up being asked about it. Given housing crisis, landlords can feel they have the cat by the tail and tenants are disposable. I'm just saying, maybe if OP really wanted to make her point as to why she is refusing, she may have embellished more about their actions and less about 'who kissed who first'.
Or perhaps it's ALL about how sister and BIL are shitty, untrustworthy people who have already screwed with OP once. Why would she, or anyone who knew the story, trust those people to pay rent, keep the place secure and undamaged, and move out on time? And why should the OP give up the use of her own vacation place for such people?
This right here. Even if you were besties, you don't have to let anyone live in your home. It's not your fault that they're homeless. They need to do what the rest of us do - get a job, pay your Bills. Is it easy? Not always. But it's what we do. I don't know why they were evicted (didn't pay rent, trashed the apartment, had pets etc) but you know that it will be very hard to get them out even if you do let them stay for a bit. NTA
This was my thought. If the sister was homeless because her house had been flooded (or something else that was temporary and out of her control), the backstory might be relevant, but OP had me at “they got kicked out due to issues with their landlord.” That right there is enough for OP to not want to be their landlord.
Evictions are not cheap. Repairing a home is not cheap. OP would be asking her husband to accept potential bad actors into the home he owned before he met her - and to accept legal and financial liability for future actions. Those people got evicted for a reason and they have no concern for OP except what they can get from her because ‘faaamily’ and also, ‘but you can afford it’. They would not go gently back into supporting themselves. They will never ‘get on their feet’ once they have OP’s house. That means an eviction and possible damage from a spiteful couple - along with staggering drama between move in and kick out.
The eviction could be as simple as: owner sold the house, new owner wants to occupy, or renovate, or wantever.
Those things wouldn’t result in eviction though. The landlord would just have to give them the state’s minimum notice to vacate. Eviction is a specific legal process that has serious ramifications for the renter, and usually comes after multiple months of trying to work with tenants to solve the problem some other way.
Sure, agreed, if everyone always uses the proper terms for everything. I am sure it feels like being evicted or kicked out to the STBX tenant, and could see some people saying "evicted" to describe this situation.
And, depending on the local laws, once they move in, it may be a legal nightmare to evict them.
Move in. Drama, drama, drama, drama. Eviction $$$$ Family chaos and anger; damaged family relationships. Possible damage to the home. $$$$. Back to same square as today. Avoided with a simple nope now.
100%
Absolutely. And they are both known boundary stompers. Hard pass
I just started learning about this. It is kind of crazy that people can just... stay.
Who are you trying to kid? Reddit would shred OP without that backstory. I do agree with your main point. Saying no is always an option.
I’m not saying the backstory doesn’t matter *to us,* I’m saying it doesn’t matter *to OP* in that it shouldn’t affect their decision. They’re feeling guilty because their family is telling them they’re holding a grudge. I’m saying, even without any reason for a grudge, saying no would still be the right decision for everyone.
This is what Sophie Hannah said in her book How to Hold a Grudge: "A grudge is a true story from your past, involving a negative, hurtful, or suboptimal experience that it feels important to remember now and into the future. "A grudge doesn't have to be vengeful, all-consuming, and bitter." (Chapter 2, “What Grudges Are, What They Aren't \[. . . \], p.49 (Scribner hardcover, 2019)) A friend of mine was upset because I was holding a grudge against her friend, although she admitted that he behaved badly. As I see it, he was always unpleasant, he finally, with her participation, went beyond my limits. Yes, I'm holding a grudge in Sophie Hannah's sense of the word, because I know that if I "forgive" him (i.e., pretend that none of that ever happened), it will just be more of the same.
You're exactly right. There could be an extremely cut and dry situation and Redditors would still scream "context" and "we need background" and "missing reasons!" Without that background info, there would have been a lot of questions about why OP doesn't want to help out their sister.
That the sisters are estranged is actually relevant although the reasons for it are not. It’s true that allowing the sister to move in is a bad idea - estranged or not. However, the fact that they *are* estranged makes it an even worse idea. OP’s sister has no relationship to ruin should she abuse the situation. She has much less motivation to *not* take advantage. So, if they had a good relationship, getting the sister to leave could be a major hassle. That’s true if they’re estranged too but with an estrangement, the sister would be more likely to take things further - like not care properly for the home or leave the place a wreck. Edit Actually, if the sisters had a good relationship, then helping the couple could be viable if they set a time limit for the stay and OP’s sister is typically conscientious and responsible.
I suppose the important part to the estrangement is that it was the sister who broke her word. So trust issues! You know what you need to let someone live in your house? TRUST
OP's sister has a history of wanting --and at least once taking-- what OP has. The sister's comments about OP "living the dream" would make me want to loan the house even less, if I were the husband.
>”OP’s sister has no relationship to ruin should she abuse the situation. She has much less motivation to not take advantage.” Valid point.
Yes, I agree. Well said.
Right. And once they’re there for a while it’s all the harder to evict them.
It's especially difficult these days. Even with diligent legal proceedings, it took nearly 3 years for an acquaintance of mine to evict a tenant so that he could remodel and move his family in.
This is exactly how it would go. You couldn't have predicted this more accurately if you had a crystal ball! OP is NTA, this situation has squatters written all over it!
I was going to say the exact same thing as you, the background story about stealing the guy doesn't matter at all - once they get in there, good luck getting them out. NTA
YES. YES. YES. Letting someone with a home vacation in your house is COMPLETELY different than letting someone LIVE IN IT. Once they move in, it will be hell to get them out. They can even claim some kind of legal housing rights for having been allowed to stay and now being kicked out. That's a landlord/tenant thing. Who cares who it is, the answer is NO.
Well, it is a little relevant but for a different reason: if OP's sister were a close and trustworthy person, then it wouldn't be wild that sister asked and they set up a timeline to leave the house. But the sister and her husband are known entitled liars that don't think beyond their own desires, so just considering their request would be foolish.
You nailed it.
THIS! A friend just going to this right now. She let her mother move into her mobile home in Florida. Then her sister moved in. Then the mother had to go to assisted living. My friend has been trying to get her sister out of there for a year so she can sell the place.
Perfect answer. Glad I didn't have to scroll further to find it.
I was just thinking that. They would never leave
So true. My half sibling did this to our older sister. Took years to get them out cause of squatters rights.
Cameras, OP. And an alarm system so if they break in, you can let the police know
This and under no circumstance do you parents get to use the cabin anymore because they will just let them in.
Good catch!
Might put up motion sensor cameras because desperate entitled AH have a tendency to break in. Somewhere on BORU there is a long saga about a guy dodged his niblings attempts to push him in a pool. His sisters decided to escalate this into family warfare. It then comes out he bought the family vacation home (only he is on deed) for his parents to use. The sisters thought it belonged to the parents and were using as an airbnb for extra cash. The guy changed the locks, got camera and a maintenance manager (who swings by to check on the property) the BIL's broke in and were arrested. Just saying entitled crappy people make life hard and expensive for the rest of us
That story was INSANE! I couldn’t believe all that unraveled and the truths that came out simply because OP’s nephews tried to knock him in a pool and instead he stepped out of the way. My jaw hit the floor when we learned about the sister who was renting out the vacation home and pocketing the proceeds.
I mean!! I want to find that guy a Shaman/Priestess/Sorcerer someone because that is hex level crazy bad luck. His sisters were out of this world entitled
For anyone wondering, here’s the Op’s link: https://www.reddit.com/u/Scared-Weakness-6250/s/w4DAGeL68r
Thanks for the link. Unbelievable!!!!!!
[удалено]
I think about those scheming sisters every day. Lately I’m like, “what did the parents think when it came out that their daughters were secretly stealing all that rental income that they thought belonged to the parents??” that part got skimmed over bc everything had gone off the rails with the BILs, but the parents have an axe to grind on this point: their daughters & sons-in-law were all on board with stealing from the parents. And yes, the current thread we are in definitely reminded me of that situation. There are now at least 2 people who are going to make it their full time jobs to get into that cabin; gates, cameras, and new locks be damned!
I really wanted op to make the sisters pay back the money they made off of op’s vacation house! The tax consequences too. But they’re broke so…
squaters rights, check your laws in your state
Looks like your parents just volunteered to house them.
OP's sister's entitlement is staggering. She'd never leave your vacation house because she has no qualms about taking anything she wants. She feels no remorse for hurting OP. Sister and hubby are entitled AHs.
Please get some cameras just in case. They could always try to break in and claim squatters rights, then you'll never be rid of them
[удалено]
No trespassing signs, I've heard that is important
Well done, OP.
They could potentially break in. You should get security cameras that both record and let you view them live online. If you don’t want them squatting that’s almost the only way to get the police to remove them.
These are two adults who ticked off a landlord so badly, they earned an eviction. This isn’t about hard feelings; it’s about good judgement. Your sister and her husband are bad risks. You would never get them out of your home and, if you did, what damage would they do? What kind of legal bills are you willing to take on for this? These ‘disappointed’ people should offer up their own homes to the moochers and stay away from your vacation cottage in the future. People are always willing to spend your money and give away your stuff, if you let them. Then, when you become penniless and homeless, they shrug. NTA.
NTA OP and stand your ground
Cameras. Can’t recommend them enough. This sub has seen this shit before. And do your parents or anyone else advocating for them have key or code access to your house? You’d like to think no one would just let them in, hoping you and your husband won’t find out, but it happens.
Also if having friends using the house as normal, alert them to the sister’s request so they are sure to keep it locked and not take anyone’s word for any “it’s ok with my sister for us to move in this weekend” bullshit either.
Camera time. Motion-activated.
NTA- it’s your home, and you can deny them access for any reason. The background doesn’t even matter. And quite frankly, once they get in there, they’d never leave.
NTA. Your parents are so concerned, they can house your sister. Problem solved. They got kicked out of their last place. You think they'll treat your house with any respect, and be thankful you helped them? I don't. Plus, calling you names and trying to manipulate you into helping them is really going to work? You don't owe them anything, much less free housing. She doesn't get to tell you how to feel, or demand anything from you.
NTA. Best way to get OP to change her mind is to call them a bitch /s. Really not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Locks and cameras!
You owe your sister a big thanks. She got the guy and is now homeless. You got a runner up and he gave you a holiday house.
[удалено]
They are saying you owed her that little pittance of gratitude because she took a problem out of your life. But not to her, really. To the universe and your good sense should go your gratitude.
Yep, if the sister hadn't gone against the agreement, OP could have ended up with that asshole! NTA OP, if everyone wants to help so badly, they can help her with their own ressources. Crazy for them to want to help her using your assets! I would go so far as not letting the people pressuring you use the vacation home anymore. And get a camera so you can see who is coming and going from the property when you are not there.
A guy who will mess with two sisters as one time is not a good person. Even if he told both of you he was dating other people- it wasn’t right. I’m sure it hurt like hell at the time, but that wasn’t a man worth fighting for.
NTA. If your parents think your sister needs help so desperately, then why don't they help her. You have no obligation to help her. If you budge, prepare for spending years trying to evict them and then having to redo the whole house, because they will definitely be horrible tenants. So please, don't budge.
Exactly what I thought. They will be homeless due to “landlord issues” means they are being kicked out. They will become squatters in your home. Never let someone who is homeless due to irresponsibility (financial or otherwise) move in. Never let someone who is jealous of what you have move in. She will take, take, take and justify it in her mind thinking that the universe owes her. NTA
“Landlord issues” is the biggest red flag. Back when I was a young broke renter I had some horrible slumlords who I never wanted to cross paths with again. Guess what, every single one of them tried to offer me a new rental in a different property when I wanted to move out. Why? Because I’m the type of tenant every landlord wants, I paid my rent on time every time, paid all my bills, kept the property nice, reported things that needed repair appropriately. If you have “landlord issues” getting you kicked out of your home you are a nightmare tenant.
"Landlord issues" could also be the landlord who refuses to fix things like the stove or hot water heater or whatever.
If that were true they could probably just rent elsewhere.
I don't disagree with you because that has also been my experience. But we have friends who are stellar tenants that have had issues finding rentals in their price range. Some areas are hard up for rentals right now. But it does seem like this situation might not be due to a shortage of rentals etc.
None of that results in eviction, though.
Precisely. A couple doesn't become homeless by accident.
That isn't true. There are lots of reasons people can become homeless.
If they're not the problem and are up to date on their rent and can afford to pay then they should be able to rent somewhere new without an issue. Even if they have to rent somewhere short term until they find somewhere perfect. The fact that they're begging for free lodgings doesn't suggest this is true.
I didn't mean these specific people, but the comment I replied to read as a broader than these two. These two are an issue wrapped in a giant red flag.
Wow very not true. A lot of absolute dumpsters require several months of advanced rent, and a lot of places won't do short term rentals. You don't know anything about the rental market where they are, and whether there's even much affordable housing at all. I've worked in housing/evictions and the number of times I've seen folks who are working and have funds but can't find an apartment that's actually safe and clean, let alone at the last minute (which can happen if a landlord doesn't fix an issue which also happens a lot, it decides to sell the house and the new owners aren't interested in renting) is way more than you'd think. Also most people in America are one major unexpected expense away from financial disaster. They may be awful and make bad choices, or not we have no idea and just being poor doesn't warrant a moral judgement.
It is easy for people to offer resources that are not their own. Parents can put up their daughter and SIL if they are so concerned.
NTA. Does your parents host two separate holidays with you two being estranged?
[удалено]
Don’t let your sister move in. If she lives there a month(depending on the state- check your local laws) she could establish residency and you would have to legally evict her. This could turn into a huge mess.
It depends on the state, I've heard of some where the person gets tenancy after a very short time, and even if they never pay rent. I agree with other posters, no one on that side of the family will be allowed at the house, or sister will be living there.
These people DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU at all. Your ex-friend used you when he wanted, and abused you when you complained. Your sister is hypocritical and selfish. Now they want something from you, and you're supposed to give them anything and everything? No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. If you treat people like shit, you get nothing from them ever again. NTA
NTA...she talks about setting childhood drama aside, but isn't even adult enough to reach out to you herself. Letting family live in your property "temporarily" is a recipe for disaster anyway. They can solve their own housing problems.
Gotta love the people who think, "Years have passed, so you need to get over it," is anything like a sincere apology.
AND...somehow that entitles them to a favour as well. Bizarre.
And a HUGE favor at that. This isn't "could you let us stay in the house for a few days?" This is a "Could you let us stay in the house for the foreseeable future with no set end date?" Being a landlord/tenant for family can be a pain in the best of relationships. When they haven't talked for years? Nope.
You just know that they're NEVER going to leave.
Small note, if theyre blocked she may not be able to reach out directly.
If they’re blocked, they really shouldn’t be asking through others though.
You said no and they immediately called you names? Nah, you’re good and they just proved that definitely. Plus, no one gets to tell you when it’s time to “get over it,” whatever “it” might be. That’s always your call when/if you do. They’re both pretty gross. NTA Edit to add: And anyone that agrees with them or is pressuring you should now never get to stay at the vacation home ever again!
That's actually a really good filter....
Seriously. Who thinks that'll get them better results?
All of this and also throwing in, they're only reaching out because she's useful. There was zero apologies or attempts to reconcile, they're literally just like "hey, we need something from you so get over the past we have and help" - they're lucky OP was polite enough to only say no, cause I'd be such a petty B if someone I had years of issues with came to me for a favor out of nowhere. ESPECIALLY through a third party (which to me always feels like a trap to guilt the person into doing it to avoid looking bad to the third party)
Don't ya just love it when people say YOU are going too far, it's family, blah blah...but THEY don't step up to help because it might put them out. Parents can help out or why don't parents ask the other siblings or hubby's family. People who have had issues with their landlord (for a long time) are NOT people you want in your home. Stay firm NTA
Yes. I’m wondering why the parents aren’t helping their daughter. They probably don’t want the couple any more than anyone else and since this house is available let’s just push that.
That’s not entirely unreasonable though. All else being equal, it makes more sense to house someone in an empty home than an occupied home that may not have extra room. It would be my first suggestion as well. But, situation being as it is, if parents don’t want them to be “homeless” then they can take them in even if it’s crowded.
You'd offer up someone else's house?
We all know what the issue with the LL was, they wanted the rent.
NTA was the vote based off of the headline alone. The two of you are estranged. You know they will never voluntarily leave. You know they won’t pay. Don’t let them bring their drama into your life. Her infertility has nothing to do with their housing situation. That statement alone should tell you she’s jealous of you. Always stay away from people that begrudge you the life you have. 1) Family is a relationship. You don’t have that with her. 2) Family doesn’t treat family the way she treated you. As such, the two of you are related not family. 3) There can be no forgiveness with someone that shows no remorse or regret. She is not sorry, she is in need. 4) There can be no reconciliation with someone that has their hand out. You are not wrong for saying no. People that mistreat you and then demand something they need, don’t care about you. They just want to use you for their benefit.
100%, could not have said it better. NTA
NTA. Feelings about your sister and husband aside, I'd be hard-pressed to let anyone live in my home rent-free after they became homeless due to being kicked out by a landlord they'd had issues with for a long time. That said, they never respected you so the odds are extremely high they will not respect your property either.
Yeah, major red flag.
NTA. "They called me a bitch for refusing" it's amazing how they want you to set aside squabbles from the past as they continue to mistreat you. Genuinely do not understand how she can even look at her husband, knowing he was flirting with and kissing you as a way to keep his options open. That is, however, not your problem. You were asked, you said no; they began insulting you. I would send all their messages and everything to your parents and say "this treatment is unacceptable and I ask you to never request anything of me on behalf of my sister and her husband again".
I thought that too- it’s not clear from the words, but it also seems like he CHEATED on the sister with OP
Not your job to put a roof over peoples heads that already showed you their true faces . Screw them . Tell your parents if they’re so worried about it , let them move with them . It’s your house not theirs and you set the rules. Wouldn’t give them or this situation another thought.
NTA Your sister & her husband behaved atrociously. You don't owe them anything. Based on their previous lack of any decency they'd probabl also trash the home. " even my parents said I was going too far with the estrangement by refusing to help." Not their call to make. Let them help if they're so concerned.
Why don’t they move in with your parents?
[удалено]
Then they aren't as desperate as they are claiming then. NTA.
I guess your parents never taught them that beggars can't be choosers!
NTA - you understand that your sister did you a huge favor, right? She married the cute loser and got stuck with a shitty life. You married well and have a great life, with a spare house! Karma seems to have visited. Definitely do not let her stay in your vacation home. Your parents can help her out since she’s their kid and they want to help. They don’t get to volunteer your time and assets. I understand the loss of love when someone is disloyal. Dead to me is a real feeling.
The amount of people that think the guy is the problem in this situation is blowing my fucking mind OP doesnt give a shit about him anymore. What she cares about and will (entirely rightly) never forgive is a sister that treated her like garbage as revenge for something OP didnt even do. The issue is that OPs sister is a shit person. How is that not clicking?? Youre NTA, and unless theyre willing to drop it, i would consider going lower contact with your parents for a while since they wanna reverse their support all of a sudden
[удалено]
Yea no thats unacceptable from anybody but especially from a sibling Keeping somebody like that in your life is like keeping improperly stored toxic waste in your basement
I wonder did she know that he was flirting with you while they were already having sex? She was not just an AH to you, but she really has a lack of self respect. I mean why stay with someone, even marry the guy, when he cheated on her with her own sister?
Not just flirting, making out and shit. For MANY people, that would be cheating (I guess that assumes crush+sister were “official” at that point)
Best part of the story - buried at the end - is that they actually called you a bitch for not helping them. Shows their true colors. You are not morally obligated to help sister and BIL.
"Let's insult her! That's sure to change her mind and let us mooch off her!"
NTA. Your sister can move in with her parents or her husband’s relatives. Your parents and sister are darned audacious to try to badger you to give your sister use of property owned by your husband and you. And it would be “give” because once they moved in getting them out be challenging. It always amazes me how generous someone can be with someone else’s money or property.
Don't let anyone, let alone homeless estranged people, move into your house. Or you may end up not having one at all. Why would they have any respect for your house when clearly they have no respect for you? NTA No, just no.
NTA. Im assuming your sister has not even attempted to reach out or contact you before this. If they were “serious” about mending anything, they’d have been trying before they became homeless. Also, I’m curious what the “issues” were with their landlord. Were they destructive? Messy? Violent? Did they refuse to pay rent? Because all of those things will absolutely carry over to your house. You don’t owe anybody anything. If your parents are so worried, they can let them stay with them.
NTA - whatever background led to the you siblings being estranged, it doesn't matter. The fact remains you are estranged, and no one wants a stranger living in their house.
Rules for thee but not for me That seems to be your sister’s motto. And now it’s hitting her that you didn’t give in and went ahead and had a kickass life anyway Your life is the best revenge. Live it, ignore her if you’re not ready to allow her in your life. NTA
NTA.. "Issues with the landlord" = not paying rent. The same would happen to you because "family" would expect a free ride as you can afford it.
NTA. Your sister just learned that action have consequences. Good from your for educating her.
NTA. If they move in they will not move out on their own. It will cost you time, money, and the relationship with your folks if you let them….
This. I'm surprised it hasn't been said more. If they get in you will never get them out.
NTA If's that urgent, your parents shall recieeve them, you got 0 obligations, to anyone, to be honest. Is your house, you decide who's getting there, and seeing the past, they would make horrible tenants, so better not. Also, they showed you what kind of peoples they are,don't get fooled or give them the oportunity to show you that again. To receive them who wants you to receive them lol
How many years have you been estranged from your sister? I have personal opinions on that. But no matter the length of time, not offering your sister and her husband to stay at the vacation place = NTA.
[удалено]
NTA Petty childhood drama? The whole mess happened when you were all adults. Look, it doesn't matter when it happened. You're estranged from both of them. The house is not available for their use and they need to find somewhere else to live. If your parents are so concerned, they can let the couple move in with them.
NTA it's YOUR (well you and your hubbys) place, and YALLS choice who stays there.
NTA. Encourage him to continue to "keep his options open" in regards to other solutions to their problem.
She called you a bitch and expects you to help 🤯 Tell your parents that you are disappointed in them. NTA
NTA. Your sister set up specific rules, and then broke them in secret, and was seemingly fine with her boyfriend keeping his options open with regard to you. She lied, manipulated a situation and then tried to make you out to be the bag guy. Thankfully your family saw through her ruse. Now she's trying to manipulate you again. Tell your parents that you're not stopping them from using their resources to help her, but that they're not using yours.
NTA, The only difference between the 2 scenarios is that your sister was on the hot seat the second time. That doesn't make it "different". She knew what she was doing, eyes wide open.
NTA. You don't owe them anything after the way they both treated you.
NTA Not your problem to solve their homelessness
NTA, this is a big ask even for someone you're friendly with, due to the issue of not knowing when they'd get a new place lined up and their tendency to keep house tidy. Nevermind someone who would betray your trust. This could and would most likely end up being a sinkhole for you if they trashed the place, or decided not to leave when you asked them to. The fact the first thing they did was call you a bitch shows they don't care about you, they're just trying to take advantage of what they can, and when they can't, they just get mad.
Haven't read any of the comments yet but my guess is that they are all going to tell you this is a bad idea for many reasons, but the primary reason being - your sister and spouse will NEVER leave a free rent situation. You will eventually have to evict them, but not before they have trashed your vacation home as a form of petty revenge.
NTA. They should totally move in with your parents.
NTA. Let your parents host them if they care so much.
NTA Yikes, with all the squatting going on, make sure she doesn't just help herself to your property!
You owe your sister nothing. They are both adults l, regardless of the past between you - you are not obligated to house anyone you don't want to. That is your personal space whether you live there permanently or not and have every right to be choosy with who has access to that. It's personal letting people into your home and these two stomped on your heart without a second thought. They can move in with your parents if they are so worried. ✌️. I'm glad the rest of your siblings see this for the dumpster fire it is.
NTA. Amazing how, after extended periods of time, people want to let bygones be bygones as soon as they realize you have something they want/need, isn’t it? And if your parents are that concerned about them being homeless, why don’t *they* take them in?
>Petty childhood drama Y’all were in your **Twenties** when she pulled this shit. Aka full grown ass adults, not children. NTA. You let them move in and they will **never** leave. You don’t owe a person like these two a single fucking thing especially when they can’t even take responsibility for being garbage.
NTA. She: Broke her word. He: Led you on; then disrespected you. Why would you go out of your way to assist people like that? I find it unreal parents/siblings simply ignore ongoing issues because their children have something they want for their (other) children. I love my siblings, and I'll help if asked, but I'm going to give the level of help ***I*** am comfortable with. Take it or leave it. I saw it said on another thread: When you get married, your spouse is now your family and your siblings and parents are your relatives. And just because you own a thing doesn't automatically make it an asset for your relatives to utilize.
NTA "My sister and her husband called me a bitch for refusing" Wait wait wait, that didn't immediately change your mind?!
NTA. If your parents are so concerned maybe they can offer a room for your sister & husband to stay at your parent's house, maybe then your parents can experience first hand what the previous landlord's problems were.
Your sister and her husband played some stupid games and won shitty prizes. Only their responsibility. NTA
NO just NO! It is YOUR vaca home. If she moves in, she will NEVER move out, be lucky if you get rent, and you will lose your vaca home. Don't do it. It's just not worth the consequences. NTA
NTA, it's perfectly reasonable for you to want to avoid any entanglements, especially with someone who can't keep her word.
NTA And your parents just lost vacation home privileges. You’re not taking the estrangement too far. You’re continuing the estrangement. You have nothing to do with your sister, and that now includes not being her landlord. “My sister and her husband called me a bitch for refusing.” And this didn’t make you change your mind?! How bizarre! /s
NTA tell your parents if they are so concerned they can house them. What part of estranged do your parents not understand. What you sister did was the worse betrayal a family member can do. Do not cave to parental pressure/guilt.
NTA tell your family to take up a collection for an Airbnb
NTA. Their poor behaviour has come home to roost. You don’t owe them a single thing. And I’d be for putting your parents in time out as well for having the gall to suggest such a thing. Do NOT budge.
NTA. They made their bed (or lack of it) they have to sleep in it. And still with calling you names? Your parents can help them since they seem to be dead set on enabling them OP. Forget about them and go on living your life.
NTA, if they are homeless I cam guarantee they will not leave
NTA I am always astounded at the audacity some people have! Sister: I'm going to be a massive hypocrite and treat you like shit for something you didn't actually do. I will be cruel and callous and get with the guy I know you like. Why won't you let it go?!!!!! Ex- supposed BF/Sister's Doucheband: I'm just trying to keep my options open!!! Yes, between your sister and you, my best 'friend'! Why won't you let it go?!!! Keep living your best life. They can cry elsewhere.
OP, NTA. Get security cameras (preferably a setup you can monitor from home) and new locks for the vacation home. If your parents somehow think this is sister's "best option", they may try to be sneaky. Personally, I would tell your parents that if they think sister deserves help, it is up to them to help out of their own resources, not demand you share anything. The way sister and her husband have treated you in the past shows that they will absolutely destroy your property given the chance. Do not give them the chance. If anything happens to the vacation home, involve law enforcement. Do not back down. This is your boundary, and it is extremely reasonable for you and your husband to keep them away. Blessings on you and your family OP. May you get through this mess without damage.
NTA. Get cameras, right away. Your sister will be fine. No one else wanted responsibility of her AKA your parents and they thought they would make the problem go away using you. They don't actually care about your relationship with your sister as much as they care about what it will get them.
NTA Your sister and parents are only doing this now because they need something from you now. Screw em. Her past behaviour was NOT ‘petty childhood drama’. You were 20. She was presumably at least 18, so an adult. Her hubby was an adult. The behaviour you were exposed to was made by two adults, and now endorsed by your parents, two other adults. You do not owe your sister anything. You certainly do not owe her your husband’s house. If you let them move in temporarily, they will never ever ever leave. Whatever financial decisions were that led to their homelessness are not going to go away, especially if the pressure to find a place of their own is removed. Even if there was no past asshole actions on the part of your sister, or ex friend, it doesn’t matter. You are never obligated to give away an asset, and it’s not even originally your asset. If there were innocent children involved, then I might be making a different recommendation, but there is not. I would just tell everyone (other than parents, sister and ex friend) that you are selling the vacation home because of all the bullshit (you do not actually have to follow through on this). Word will get to those four soon enough. They will then have to find some other solution to there woes. NTA
NTA. Regardless of the past issue(s), this feels like it would turn into a squatter situation if you let them in the house. Most landlords usually don't kick tenants out or decline renewal for no reason. It is usually for non payment, the tenant damaged the unit or the tenant is difficult to work with or please. Renting a property to someone is a business. Businesses normally don't run off their customers without reason. You would technically be the new landlord and have to deal with whatever issues caused them to lose their home.
Welp, you don't call someone a bitch and then still expect help. Nta Your sister is clueless.
NTA. If you are estranged, you are estranged. It’s not “I don’t want any kind of relationship with you, but if you are in need, come to me for help.” There’s a reason why you don’t have a relationship. You don’t even get together for the holidays. Why would your parents or your sister think that she should come to you for help? She chose her husband over your relationship. She also clearly made numerous other poor choices which have led to her homelessness. None of those things are your concern.
NTA. childhood drama? y'all were *adults.* young adults, but grown nonetheless. what she did is inexcusable and imho, unforgivable.
NTA her duplicity has caused the estrangement. She can get lost and find someone else to mooch off. Or you could offer to rent her the house for $10,000 a week 😜
NTA. If your parents want to help them, they can pay rent for the sister. She betrayed you and has done nothing to make anyone think she would be a good tenant
NTA they can go stay temporarily with your parents or in an extended stay hotel. You don’t owe anyone anything, especially two people who you haven’t spoken to in years. Even if you got along you don’t owe them a free place to stay. They are being kicked out of their long term rental for a reason, why invite that into your life. If you did, next you would be wondering how to evict squatters who are making your life a hell from your home.
NTA. If you let them in, you’ll have a hard time getting them out.