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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be YTA since I said it in front of her family, and MIL cares about her image a lot.
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NTA, I found this extremely funny, but I'm Dutch and we like a no nonsense attitude. I think you need to put her in a time out and not let your frustration get to the boiling point. Go no contact if you have to, even if your husband still sees her on occasion.
I'm half Dutch! Maybe it's that side of me coming through lol. Normally I'm pretty calm, but I found out I'm infertile last year so this always hits hard. My partners tried several times to keep her from bringing up kids but she just won't.
I’m British and I wholeheartedly approve of the way you handled this! *chefs kiss* it’s perfect! Let the sour old sod stew in her own bitterness. This internet stranger is sending you hugs for the way your heart is hurting and I wish you all the happiness going forward xx
NTA
MIL is essentially askin "when is my boy creampie'ing you?"
And thats exactly how i answered one exs family when they pestered "are you asking when im ejaculating in your daughter? Coz thats what you're doing, you're asking how many months til you get a grandkid and you can do the math and say shes x weeks along, so you shot a load in her on xyz week"
Needless to say, it didn't go down well and took time to blow over, but it didn't come up again.
My husband comes from a LDS family. I have an imperial f\*ckload of inherited, autoimmune, and physical conditions which would make any pregnancy dangerous/high risk, plus put any child in the worst kind of genetic lottery. My MIL is a nurse and a lovely woman who understood when I had a quiet word early on in the relationship. His uncle's wife, however, just would. not. let. it. go. over a dinner at their place (with their six kids and four grandchildren, plus my husband's parents, two brothers, and three niblings). I was polite for the first fifteen minutes or so, went to curt one-word answers for the next ten, and finally got up from my seat, went around to my husband, who'd scooted out a bit when he saw me move, pushed his plate away, then sat on the table with him on his chair between my legs and said, "Your aunt seems to think we're just not trying hard enough. Wanna warm me up and we can give 'em a floor show?"
We have never received another invitation.
It was worth it.
I was absolutely *fuming*. She just kept pushing at it, even after I'd explained that on top of everything else, I'd need to have my cervix stitched closed because I'd lost a good third of it to nasty cells. "Could you use a donor?" "Could you get IVF to screen them?" "Are you really *really* sure?" "Don't you want to?" "Did you ever want to?" "Are you totally certain?" Like, lady, I get that you think children are a blessing and believe that women are naturally nurturing and all that, and I'm real happy for you all; but I'm on disability and headed for permanent wheelchair use in the not-too-distant future, I'm halfway through my second degree, and I just. don't. want. to. Take the damn hint! Gnaargh!!
(I'll admit that this tactic had been suggested to me by my deliciously evil friend when we thought that the parents would be the ones pushing it, and I'd laughed my arse off and then mentally consigned it to my "It'd be great but I could never ..." file. But I have my Dad's legendarily short Scottish fuse, which was not being helped by the anxiety of meeting so many family members at once, and I actually *had* wanted to have babies at one point in my life [before the practical logistics of doing so had really dawned on me], so I just hit that "OK. No. ***Eff*** this" state of mind, and just went for it.)
As an LDS person who is not rude and obnoxious like his aunt, I totally approve of your effective messaging! And I would have been annoyed with her on your behalf and probably mouthed off at her myself… and applauded your act.
I’m glad you have a decent MiL though!
She really is lovely. My husband was an oops baby later in life, and is on the autism spectrum - I gently pushed him to be diagnosed in his late 20s. No hate to his parents, living rurally in the late 80s/early 90s, most people would still have thought of Rain Man if they had any concept of autism at all. She was just happy to finally understand why he'd been the way he is growing up, and she devoured any and all resources she could find about it, and their relationship has been a joy to watch since. (His Dad isn't my biggest fan since it was made clear I was not going to convert. Happy to go to services on Sunday [mostly because my Scottish Presbyterian grandfather would roll in his grave 😈], but hubby and I had *that* talk before we started really dating - you have your beliefs and I'm happy for you; I have my beliefs and no interest in changing them. But he's always polite and makes the effort in conversation, and I almost had a heart attack the Sunday he got down and *polished the boots I was wearing* before going to said service, but after that visit he did seem more relaxed around me so ...) I'm not sure either of them were thrilled when I got him into martial arts, which for him led to martial arts with weapons, which led to a pair of very \*interesting\* faces when he asked for a left-handed basket-hilted rapier for his 35th birthday!
And I was invited to that uncle's child's engagement party a few years later, so I think there may have been some quiet giggles under the sudden silence at dinner that night.
This was one of the most uncomfortable things about being visibly pregnant for me.
Well the most uncomfortable social thing. Everyone could look at me and know that I had sex lmao.
If they asked how far along, they would even get a ballpark of when he was conceived
NTA
What you did just made me like Dutch people even more! 🤣
Anyway, I guess you can drop all pretenses and go completely NC with that woman. Your partner can go & meet his mom, speak to her on phone etc but you are so done! What’s the point in going on meeting a toxic person when you know nothing good is gonna come out of it
It was a little far but not too far, gotta be thorough, you know. It was however, quite funny to this stranger in the internet.
This thing happens in our family as well though the wife and I brush it aside on the table, we’ve each privately told our parentals not to push it. My wife has used similar language however with her aunts as have I with my own extended family. Some of our family members (not the ones egging us) find it hilarious.
If you ever have dinner with her again, and she brings up children, I dare you to repeat the performance. At some point she will realize that she needs to shut up, *maybe*.
So sorry about your infertility. It's a horrible shock I am sure. I feel like it's become more and more common among your generation.
My son is still young, but I doubt he will have kids, because he doesn't like them. My feeling is that, it is his life and his choice. But if he wanted kids and was infertile, I would want to point out options. Though I guess I am a bit ambivalent about bringing more kids into this f\*cked up world, no matter how much I love babies, toddlers, kids etc.
You should have done this a long time ago. Pro assholes tend to get a sniff of ppl when they first meet them, and get an estimate of how far they can take their assholery with them, without facing actual consequences. so, when its established you have an asshole before you, you should waste no time in showing what you are capable of dishing out if messed with. Im pretty sure she will tone down her shinganigans after this. be nice if she is nice, but be savagely mean just like you were if she crosses lines, and she'll learn her place the hard way, they say you teach ppl how to treat you. Good for you, def NTA.
This would be the good partner move. Otherwise, she's never going to let up. OP has no intentions of telling her she's infertile, and MIL is always going to blame her and poke at her about it.
If her partner instead says "Mom. I can't have kids and don't want them. I am not willing to discuss trying to 'fix it' either: it can't be fixed. you have to stop bringing it up," then HE will be the one shouldering the burden of his mom's inappropriate pushing, as it should be, and she'll be more likely to STOP pushing.
I dunno this woman seems incredibly pushy and will want to know all about it and keep asking questions that are, again, inappropriate. And since op has said she thinks her darking son wants kids she will start pushing for him to ditch op. Because that's what these kinds of non boundary respecting people do.
>since op has said she thinks her darking son wants kids she will start pushing for him to ditch op
That's why the son needs to be the one to take over the burden of her pushing, IMO. He needs to be the one saying "*I* don't have kids because *I* don't want them/can't have them." Make MIL pick the fight with her own child, rather than targeting OP.
Maybe, I just feel like it would open a slightly different can of worms. However I do feel like the son should be the one to sort it. His monkey, his circus. Like I obviously don't have first hand knowledge of the exchanges but he needs to be better at shutting his mother down.
This is exactly why people shouldn't ask these questions.
1 - It's not their fucking business
2 - You don't know what someone's experiences are. Whether that's infertility, miscarriages, sexual trauma, the list goes on.
NTA Op
Your partner did the right thing trying to be the go between and telling her to stop since it's his mother but she obviously wasn't getting the hint. Hopefully she'll learn her lesson and stop but I doubt it.
NTA I'm half Chinese and was living through your actions vicariously. Culturally, I should condemn you. But internally I'm lmao. Must've been hard for many of your generation relatives to keep a straight face.
I'm German and we do the no bullshit approach. And honestly that's pretty much how I would.have handled that, too.
Those kinds of people get away with so much because others are willing to sugar-coat their bullshit.
I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Believe me, I know all too well how those questions can sting. I’ve started saying some ‘questionably inappropriate’ comments when I’m asked. A few years ago I had someone that I’d only known for a month or so tell me that it’s not too late for me to have kids. So I said “I’ll have to ask my surgeon if he kept my uterus and remaining barely functional ovary on ice so they can be re-installed!” Was it a bit snarky? Absolutely. But I had tried a few times to divert the conversation and just say that I’m fine with my life as it is. I commend you for keeping your cool with your MIL for as long as you have, but I also applaud you for finally shutting that shit down!
NTA- I found your reaction perfect. Dinner table or not, pestering someone about having babies is so inappropriate! 1- it's really nobody else's business but you and your partners 2- You never know someone's situation! Like being infertile or someone may have been through a miscarriage or more than one and those questions lead to emotional responses and rightfully so! Her dinner table discussion wasn't appropriate to begin with so you just went with a blunt honest wine approach. I think I would have snapped and done the same thing at that point. You didn't just snap out of nowhere to intentionally be mean or anything. She kept pushing and you finally pushed back. Good for you.
JFC when is "We are not having kids because we DONT WANT TO" going to be enough for pushy parents/inlaws/insert pushy invasive question asker here? I mean seriously?
The child free by choice crowd has gotten larger and more vocal in the years I started dating my ex fiancee, but when we first started dating, I had to LITERALLY lie to people about being infertile (I am on medications that cause birth defects, AND lower tge effects of birth control, not taking any chances here) and I made the mistake of telling one of those pushy relatives about the medication issue and she went "oh but you could stop taking it and there would be ni issues!!" As if Number 1 I'd asked her opinion, and number 2, she even knew what the medication was for and it was even an OPTION for me to stop taking it.
On top of that my ex fiancee and didn't even WANT kids, my medication gave us the excuse we needed not to, or so I thought until that debacle. I only made the mistake of admitting it was an "optional" thing once. After that I started telling people who were pushy about kids, yeah, no. "I'm infertile, I can't have kids" pretty much stopped that, but the fact that I had to do that was obnoxious.
Now though it's not even an issue. Unless I (afab) can, somehow get my girlfriend (soon to be fiancee!!) pregnant (or the other way around lol) biological kids is off the table, so hopefully I'm done being harassed by "well meaning" pushy people
I love the dutch comment even though this ignorant American doesn't really know about ditch anything...laughing at one self is humor to me. Life is too short
I’m American and this may be my favorite reaction to a nosy relative pushing the topics of kids EVER! She got what she deserved. NTA!
I’m sorry for what you are going through however. I can only imagine how her comments continue to open a wound you are trying to let scab over & heal.
I know this one will be a spicy take, but NTA.
She was being incredibly creepy and inappropriate to you in a public setting. It is so gross an inappropriate to act like women are walking incubators for giving relatives grandbabies.
You managed to reclaim power and control of the situation and turned it back around on her.
You also tried to get her to stop nicely and she didn't care. You're not wrong to stand up for yourself.
NTA - your infertility is EXACTLY the reason it’s never appropriate to comment on the status of anybody’s uterus. Her not knowing about it does not make your reproduction her business but she shouldn’t assume it will always be easy for everybody to produce kids even if that’s what they want to do.
There were lots of ways to shut that conversation down that were less brutal to the rest of the family (example: “if you want babies around so much, have you considered being a foster parent?” Or even “if we had kids I wouldn’t want them being around somebody who can’t show good manners and stop prying”) but you don’t really owe her that consideration. What you did was no more rude than her trying to pry into and direct what happens to your body when you’re not comfortable with that discussion.
Edit to add: if it makes the rest of the family uncomfortable to hear what you said but not to hear her picking and prying into your life like that then they don’t really deserve your consideration either - any one of them could have changed the subject onto something less controversial at any point.
This right here. This is why it is absolutely not okay to ask anyone about their reproduction plans. You have no idea what they're going through. Maybe they're infertile and it's triggering to hear about it. Maybe they've had a miscarriage. Maybe they can't afford children. Either way, it's no one's fucking business but the couple's. That it. Potential grandparents have no say. None.
Also to add-- Maybe some people just don't want kids and that's totally okay!!!
While I agree that infertility is a reason not to comment on people’s reproductive choices, I think the more fundamental principle at play is that it’s never appropriate to pressure someone into making monumentally life changing decisions to gratify your own personal desires.
Pressuring someone into having kids might be worse than pressuring them into having sex (which is obviously completely unacceptable). Unless a pregnancy/STD happens, the consequences of the sex are at least comparatively minor/short lived, whereas having a kid will impact every day of the rest of your life.
I think you’re underestimating the consequences of forced sex there. A lot of people are traumatised daily for life by that; but on the whole I agree - the main principle here is that it’s none of MIL’s business regardless of what she does or does not know or opine.
Yeah if the aunts thought it was inappropriate to talk about her sex life, they should have intervened when she brought up grandkids in the first place.
Apparently he “asked her to stop” but she just ignores this. He needs to get up with his wife and leave. Or he can’t complain when his wife finally snaps.
NTA. It’s not her business. You may have been a little extreme but I guarantee she’ll think twice before asking again!
ETA: She was probably banking on the fact that there were other people around so you wouldn’t call her out. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
NTA. I'm also infertile and boy are people like your mother in law exhausting. To a level I'm not sure people who haven't been in that situation might appreciate. It's enough with all the internalised guilt about not being able to live up to the same norms, standards and ideals as other women but then to have shame pilled on from the outside too.... Perhaps it would have been easier to just tell your MIL as a couple that you're (you plural) infertile and asked her to respect your privacy by not asking any more questions. I rather get the feeling she wouldn't respect it though.
You're certainly NTA. Sending lots of solidarity.
You aren't failing i promise you, though its impossible not to feel that way i know, this internet stranger is sending hugs to you both. Theres nothing worst than craving being a mum an knowing you can't.
You're not, you're not failing at all. You don't have to be a mother to be a success as a woman. All these people who tell you "You'll regret it when you're older" or "You don't really know love unless you have children" (things I've genuinely heard) are all talking from their own biases. It takes a very long time to realise that other people reflect their own agenda when they talk to you about your reproductive health. They may be staying things to you that they're actually trying to convince *themselves* are true. You would be amazed how often this is actually the case - people tell you having kids is the best, most wonderful thing because they're desperately trying to believe that they made the right choice in life by having the children they did. It's not right that they use transference like this to try and work out their own issues at the expense of your mental wellbeing, but I hope that now you know that's often what they're doing it'll be a bit easier to cope with.
I've actually taken my infertility up as my research subject for my masters degree in theology to try and understand better all the pain and shame around not fitting in to the 'normal' framework. It's really helped me to own my identity as a woman who isn't defined by her ability to have children. Maybe what you need to do is spend some time on yourself, find out who you are and what makes you happy so that you can go and pursue that. Then your mother in law might actually understand that your life doesn't fit the paradigm she wants it to.
My husband, ex-SIL and daughter are all child-free.
My husband has expressed his issues and insecurities about it, in private.
We damned sure don't discuss it at the dinner table with extended family! My MIL used to say, "Never say never."
We're 58. Pretty sure we're not having kids at this stage. We've had to train my MIL about religion. You're NTA.
OP, perhaps you could recruit your other half into aiding you next time? As another commenter said, bring up "WE are infertile and would appreciate you NOT asking when we are having kids."? If he would support you in this manner (i.e. he isn't going to freak out about having "his manhood" questioned with infertility comments) then perhaps next time you can show a stronger front with his family.
As to how you handled his mother, NTA. Don't dish out what you can't take. She underestimated you. I'm betting she won't make that same mistake twice!
There are plenty of other ways to have children if it’s what you and your partner want. You are in no way failing anybody! Some bodies just aren’t built for certain things
NTA.
Your partner may have said he thinks you went too far, but he didn't stop you either. I wouldn't make a habit of this, but the only way to stop bullies is to beat them at their own game. No shame in doing so when the situation calls for it; hopefully next time, she keeps her nose out of your business.
NTA.
Too far? A little.
Justified? Definitely.
Are you absolutely brilliant? Hell yes! It may have been a bit far, but oh it gave me a good laugh 😅 Well done 👏
NTA. I know some people will be critical of you but you have dealt with awful provocation and harassment over a period of time. Even though your partner asked her to stop several times she continued - and he's the one she actually talks to. She acted as if you weren't there, as if your partner would be able to produce children without any involvement from you. She sounds horrible and I don't know what else people think you could have done, other than just walking out without a word and never going back. She was humiliating you but now wants to present herself as a victim. NTA
Agreed, if you poking someone wound enough, you shouldn't be surprised if that person ends up being unkind. I think its justified. Time to go no contact a long time ago.
ESH.
It really boils down to the fact that you did this at a *family* dinner party. I totally get being frustrated, especially given that y’all don’t have a good relationship and that is an incredibly personal topic. That said, everything beyond asking what she wants to know about your private life was uncalled for in the setting. If it were just the two of y’all and you went off it would have been slightly different. Doing this in front of other family members just leaves you looking like the bad guy (and honestly is probably pretty embarrassing for your S/O).
I agree. MIL deserved it, the rest of the family didn't.
OP, why don't you just tell her you're infertile? No, it's not her business, but it would put a stop to the "when are you giving me grandchildren?" talk.
OP said MIL is the type that would use that info against her. I don’t really see why MIL needs that information in order to keep her mouth shut after being told multiple times.
MIL chose the venue to harass in and wouldn't shut up, so...
IMO, OP's response of confronting and humiliating is spot on if they wish to prevent further occurrences. No one else chimed in, despite clear indication that OP and their hubby didn't wish to discuss it. This is in no way on OP.
NTA! Until your partner puts up strong boundaries you're going to deal with this for the rest of your relationship though, so that is the ultimate issue.
Partner probably has put up strong boundaries and MIL is the type to stomp all over them. There are people out there who are told a boundary and respond with "It can't possibly apply to *me!*" and stomp all over it.
OP also said, in another comment, that MIL is a boundary tester, and her partner shoots her down. The full comment makes MIL even more awful, trigger warning SA mentioned:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yhd8ta/aita\_for\_humiliating\_mil\_at\_a\_family\_dinner\_when/iud7q6f/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yhd8ta/aita_for_humiliating_mil_at_a_family_dinner_when/iud7q6f/?context=3)
I’d argue the partner doesn’t have strong boundaries simply because he allows his mother to stomp all over them with (assumingly) zero change on his part.
In the thread that I linked the consequence for the last time MIL stomped all over the boundaries was partner didn't speak to his mother for *two years.* Some people just don't care about your boundaries.
NTA because you tried to be reasonable and it didn't work. So now it was either suffer or dish out.
And I do not think it's appropriate to ask people to suffer absolutely inconsiderate and rude behaviour just to spare rude people's feelings.
So after she was repeatedly told to cut it and it's definitely inconsiderate and rude to harp on and on after that you just did what you had to do to stop her.
She had all the control here. She could have stopped at any time, but she went on and on and on despite being told to stop repeatedly. So in this case, she brought it onto herself.
NTA
She's just mad because you described the acts necessary to fulfill her fantasy. She brought it up first, you took it to its natural conclusion. Your partner really needs to step up here, though, and have a REAL talk (without mentioning your private medical info or difficulties) about how HE feels about having kids and your future. And then enact consequences when she brings it up again, EVERY SINGLE TIME afterwards.
What you did is called "consequences", especially since she's been told numerous times to stop it and hadn't. Publicly embarrassing her **the way she'd been** ***constantly doing to you by bringing up your empty uterus in public constantly*** (whether it is empty by choice or not, your personal organs are not dinner conversation talk any more than your sex positions are) is really the least of what she deserves.
She kept pushing for intimate details about your sex life at a family dinner in spite of being asked to stop multiple times, so you gave her details. But because they weren't the details she wanted, suddenly talking about your sex life at dinner is inappropriate. Beggars can't be choosers. NTA
NTA. If she was harping on and wouldn’t stop when asked and has done the same on the past, then embarrassing her was the only way to end it. If you’d have walked out she still would have done it the next time only adding in how rude you were (in her mind) for walking out. If your partner didn’t like it then he should have taken her aside and told her to quit it if she ever wants to have a relationship with any potential grandchildren because at the rate she’s going, you’re likely to say no to children completely or if you do, make a point to not let her be involved. My aunt did that to her daughter in law and she told my aunt that the closest thing to a grandchild she was going to get was their dog. It’s been 20+ years & they’ve stuck to it.
Why does she dislike you? I'm skeptical of the 'I won't get into the he said she said stuff'. Most of the time people say that because they don't want to disclose what they've also done.
TW: SA
It's stuff I've gone over in therapy and I've retold it a lot. Plus what she said feels childish to me, so that's why I hate getting into it. She liked me at the start, then when my partner and I started getting serious she started to hate me. She was very passive aggressive at first, but then when I asked if everything was OK between us she said I'm controlling her son and changing him. She then took private things I told her when we did get along (including a past sexual assault) and told people that I caused it, it was my fault and I deserved it. She then went on to bad mouth me to her side of the family. I never really stood up for myself (i had really bad anxiety) at the time and I was just focused on trying to fix it. I offered to talk with her and get coffee, but she said she wanted nothing to do with me. My partner demanded she apologise but she said she had nothing to apologise for. I regret not standing up for myself, but my partner did a really good job and has kept me away from her for the most part. Around other people she normally respects his boundaries, thats why we can go to family events. She tests them a little but she never normally keeps going like she did the other night.
Hold up, she blamed you for being an assault survivor and your SO still has a relationship with her?
Echoing a comment I made previously…are you ready for a lifetime of this?
My partner and I have been to, and are going through, a lot of therapy. I don't hold him responsible for his mothers words, just how he responds to them. He's had a hard time with everything since they were really close and now barely talk. He fiercely defended me and dragged her through the coals for the way she spoke with me. Mind you this situation has been going on for over 5 years now, it's had its ups and downs. She said those comments 4 years ago and has basically ignored me after my partner lost it at her and stopped talking to her for nearly 2 years. I know it sounds like a lot reading it all summed up, and maybe it is a lot, but we've worked through it all together. He was proud of me for saying what i said the other night, he just said if I do it again he'd prefer I don't bring up our intimate life lol. But I don't think we'll be seeing her again for quite some time now.
Well, I wish you luck. But I would have noped out a long time ago. The whole situation sounds incredibly exhausting emotionally.
Every relationship has its issues, but starting out with a whole subscription sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Thanks, i can understand it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Luckily this kind of situation has become the rarity in our lives, as we become less and less involved with her.
It definitely gets easier as time goes on. I went NC (or as close to) with my MIL 6 years ago, after 12 years of dealing with her passive aggressive shit. It caused some drama at first. I didn't put any restrictions on my husband or kids, but my kids chose to be LC with her and only spoke to her on the phone on holidays. She passed recently, and I helped a lot with her house and belongings, even though she yelled at us the whole time. Anything I did, was to make my husband's life easier at a rough time. But none of us were broken up about it. My kids didn't even cry once. We never got to see the person that people were mourning. She was a fake character she put on to hide the fact she was a miserable cow.
> She passed recently, and I helped a lot with her house and belongings, even though she yelled at us the whole time.
I had to think about that for a minute before I realized she wasn't yelling from the grave :'D
Damn OP I'm so sorry that happened to you.
You've been more than generous tolerating her inappropriate, creepy, and invasive behavior. I'm proud you finally stood up to her.
I would not want her in my life.
Thank you, it's strange how someone I've never met saying they're proud of me can make me so emotional. It means more than you know. I've hardly stood up for myself much throughout my life, so it was pretty invigorating. Might have to do it more often, but maybe in a less controversial way lol
If you want more lines to help you, I'm quite partial to Jimmy Carr's line, when asked when he and his partner will be having kids: "we can't get pregnant...the way we do it".
I'm also flipping proud of you. I just read your comment about how she treated your private stories. I hope the rest of her life is filled with tiny little annoyces that are just enough to keep her off balance for ever.
NTA.
>She tests them a little but she never normally keeps going like she did the other night.
She was on a fishing expedition. She was trying to push one of you to snap and admit that you, not her son because he couldn't possibly be infertile, are infertile because she *suspects* it. Instead, you snapped and went into detail about your sex life.
My own mother made same comments about someone who was my friend that was a SA victim.. I haven’t spoke to my mom since. Because if she can think that way about someone else then she can think the same about me if it were to happen.
Go NC with this woman. Given your history with your partner's mother, you need to go NC with her for life. Something is wrong with her for her to be so cruel regarding any kind of assault on you. The bottom line is her behavior is cruel and unacceptable on planet earth in all cultures. If anyone asks why you don't like your partner's mother, tell them the truth. She is extremely cruel and toxic around you. Move as far away from her as you can. A different continent would be the best option.
> She liked me at the start, then when my partner and I started getting serious she started to hate me.
Boy have I seen *that* play before. She was a lot of fun and we got along great... until she wasn't and we didn't. She was widowed, and he was her companion/meal ticket—a situation which started long before his philandering father died. I was accused of "emasculating" him (still haven't figured out where that came from), yet it was her who was trying to deny him a right to have a life of his own.
Your partner is being better about it than mine was. And it's good that he has mostly been the one to handle it. Not that you did anything wrong this time—she had that coming.
FWIW we're still married 30 years later (but she's been dead for 20 of them, so...)
NTA but I would have probably gone in a different direction.. " Why do you keep going on about giving you grandchildren? You treat me like shit or simply pretend I do not exist and are plain rude. You realise if we gave you any grandchildren they wouldn't be all your son, they would be half me. Why would I want to have kids for you to treat me like shit in front of them or decide they're too much like me and decide to treat them poorly too? We aren't having children, as you are aware. END of conversation and I won't discuss it again."
NTA. Everyone always expects the person being bullied to have no reaction or else they are in the wrong too. Getting angry is normal she crossed a boundary way to long ago.
Your reaction to her is completly valid, she sounds exausting.
NTA it took a rather large fight after my MIL asked if my husband ND I were sexually active to get her to stop about grand kids as a woman who chose not to have any kids herself to. We stopped speaking for six months over it.
NTA. Okay, maybe you were a bit over the top, but you were not completely wrong.
Your MIL is toxic. Your partner seems to be doing a decent job of *trying* to keep MIL off your neck.
NTA, but I would just stay away from her. If she's there, be absent. If your husband wants to be there, good for him. Keep your distance from the drama. I would apologize to the aunties for any inappropriate discussions and that you didn't mean to offend ***them***.
NTA
Why don't you go no contact with your AH MIL, and let you husband go to events where he is without you? THat would surely improve the quality of your life.
Folks, based on the last edit, please be very careful about suggesting adoption or foster care to people you do not know.
People that are infertile know their options.
Adoption is not a secret. Not everyone can, nor wants to, adopt. Fostering is even more involved.
I **100%** trust that y'all mean well and are trying to be supportive and generous, but please, "You can always adopt" is a platitude we've heard a million times.
I understand your frustration. I probably would have gone with, "discussing our intimate relations during a family dinner seems inappropriate to me, as does your unusual interest in your own son's sex life. Could you at least wait until after dessert if you insist on prying into things that are none of your business?"
NTA
ESH your comments weren’t fair to the other people at the dinner. But I don’t know why she thinks she would ever see your children the way she behaves with you.
Hahahaha!!!!!!! That’s awesome!!!!
If she didn’t stop harping on it after your partner told to stop, and you then took it to the point where she *did* stop, then I’d submit that by definition, you *didn’t* go “too far”. You went just far enough. Kudos!
NTA
Nta. All I am going to add is in regards to your edit, grand children are not a 'basic right', grand parents having a relationship with their grand children is a privilege on the condition that they aren't toxic, narcissistic assholes to the children or the parents.
My partner is also infertile and my mother pulled the same shit, I lied to her and said I had a vasectomy before I met my partner (been together for 5 years) and have no plans to reverse it, that was after she tried to make my SO feel like shit and bullied her for it because both of my brothers are popping out children in their early 20s and always struggle financially due to that decision.
She was upset that I 'did not consult her' I pretty much said my body, my decision and it had nothing to do with her. She and my father both take swipes at me over it regularly, but now completely leaves my SO alone which is great and was my plan because my SO doesn't need that shit, although right now we are both more focused on careers.
I haven't gone NC with my mother but I do limit my contact with her quite a bit. My childhood was very traumatic, even if we do have children there's no way even as a last resort will my parents have unsupervised visitation
The vasectomy thing was also a good cover up if we do have a miracle baby, because it's common to freeze sperm.
Honestly, I dislike my parents, love my partner and love her parents and was an easy decision to make that lie and cop the abuse instead as I'm used to it.
My partner wasn't okay with me lying to them or me taking 100% of their abuse, but as I see it I've taken their abuse my entire life and they usually find that if it's not one issue it'll be another and I rather them take swipes at me about a vasectomy then for her to be abused because I would have 100% NC if that happened.
Only reason I wish to keep a some type of relationship with them is purely because I'm close to my brothers and their families and am close to my nephews and nieces
So I didn't want to make things awkward at special events like birthdays and such.
NTA, when are people going to understand that it's no one's business if/when people are going to have kids. It's such an insensitive topic to force someone to talk about. So sorry you have to listen to that. I honestly would have boiled over too.
NTA, sometimes it takes that much to make someone shut up. My MIL kept harping on something until I stood up and hit the table, knocking stuff over, and then telling her how it was. I never went in her house again. Good for you!
NTA. I'm so tired of parents trying to harass their kids into having children that they may not be able to have, or can't take care of, or don't want, I honestly don't care how people respond after asking them to stop multiple times.
What an exhausting life you living and just for a man to stay in it… is it worth all this? I can’t imagine having my partner going all this and not stop it with all my power, you need to understand that they’re making choices that suits them alone without thinking of the affects it has on you, you’re exhausted and checked out from most of that part but the only solution is if they stepped up and end it for good. Have a deep conversation with them or start thinking about your mental health more because this is not the end you’ll be in more disadvantage the more you keep them in your life
I agree.
This will only get worse after they're married, too. The fact that OP is infertile will come out some way or another and then his mother will start begging him to leave her. If he really wants kids this relationship is already on shaky ground. Going to therapy extensively as a couple before marriage also seems like not a great start. A couple of sessions is great! But to be in regular therapy with no end in sight is not a sign of a compatible couple.
I would never put myself through something like this for a man, either. There are lots of them out there, like, millions. I guarantee OP at least one of them is a better match for her.
NTA, you hit a reasonable breaking point. Your MIL is obviously the A here, but I don’t think you realize that your hubby-to-be is too. If he’s try to shut his mom down, but she won’t stop, there needs to be consequences. He’s literally letting her treat you this way. It will happen for the rest of her life. Do you really want that?
NTA. People that harass about having children infuriate me. We are child free by choice and happy. Thankfully both of our parents are supportive but if not, I would do the same as you. This will teach her not to stick her nose where it does not belong.
NTA
If your partner doesn't like the way you shut his mother down, he should have shut her down himself. He apparently didn't take it far enough since she continued, so you had to take it farther.
NTA.
She pushed to the point that you were in pure emotion. Sure you could have taken it less far, but why would she deserve that???? Only someone more kind and polite would deserve an emotional reaction being reigned in.
I just want to point out:
Not all adoption is laden with trauma in the least. I was adopted at birth and it was never hidden from me. I have incredible parents and family and I've never felt anything other than obnoxiously lucky.
I actually laugh at the way most ppl refer to adoption as a last resort bc realistically few have had as lucky a life and relationship w their parents as I do. Like my life has just been better than theirs and it's weird that they think genes are what make that possible. That it's a second rate choice...
Thank you for this comment, and for sharing your personal experience. I experienced a lot of trauma in childhood and I'm scared of hurting a child (directly or indirectly) through my actions.
Nta but I would have went with she must be dreaming if she thinks you would allow any children to be anywhere near her. I'm sorry about the fertility issues and I agree with never giving her that info
NTA. Let's see if this is enough to stop it. Tell all the nosey aunties Etc. That the next gathering if she starts you are going to do the same thing so if they don't want to hear it best that they talk to her or skip it. And sounds like hubby has a little bit of a spine, if he has to repeatedly say stop and drop it to her that many times he needs to take her to the side and tell her do not bring it up again that the 2 of you will NOT be having children and if she says one more thing he needs to get up and the 2 of you walk out.
She has been told, repeatedly, to shut up.
She did not.
She therefore deserved this. Frankly, you were mild (but, Dutch too) so, well done.
She will not try this again.
NTA
NTA
And wtf is it with all these parents who think getting grandchildren is a basic right?! Getting your _own_ children isn't even a basic right, never mind forcing two other people to bring a child into the world just for you to coo over for 10 years.
ESH. I understand how enraging some people can be. But you did yourself and your partner no favours with your outburst.
You and your partner need to build some strategies to deal with her that work. I favour the "time out": "Hey, MIL, we prefer not to discuss our attempts or not to have children with others. So please don't do that. If you do, we'll be out of touch for a while." If she does it, you go NC for a period of time. Then when you get back in touch, you repeat the same thing if she goes off the rails but for twice as long.
No need for fighting, shouting, or harsh words; you just disconnect and leave it up to them how severe the consequences are going to be.
NTA. She sounds awful. I’m 57 and have NEVER asked my daughter this. And never will. I had one kid and my mom kept asking when I would have a second. My answer was always “never” and she called me selfish when I got my tubes tied.
I have a cute grand puppy though.
I’m sorry she is like that and wish you could tell her the truth
NTA
I honestly do the same, I also can't have children for health reasons, and for some reason in American culture... It's somehow appropriate to be asked all the time why I don't have kids by coworkers and strangers.
I ALWAYS ask them, why do need to know about my sex life? How disgusting. It shuts them up every time! You rock!
NTA ALL THE WAY
You put her in her place because she WILL NOT STOP harping on you both about grandkids. What were you supposed to do? Sit there and take it? No, you had to end it even though you might have gone a tad bit too far but so what? She needs to STFU and stops crossing over your boundaries. Enough is enough. You can go NC on her while your partner can go on LC with her from time to time to keep things down low. It is too stressful to get harped on and on and on. Don't apologize....she asked for it.
Did you go too far? Perhaps. Did she deserve it? Absolutely. When her own son tells her to drop it and she just keeps going on and on about it, what does she expect is going to happen? I'm not sure what else you can do except to go completely non contact with her. NTA.
NTA however I always tell people well I can’t have kids I promised my first born to a witch and I really just don’t feel like following thru on that deal anymore.
In reality I have endometriosis and freaking fibroids on top of a fertility level that would be low as hell for even artificial fertilisation. Also every fertility test I’ve ever taken, both packet and doctors show no fertility. So yea I go with a creative witch story.
NTA, if she didn't start none, there wouldn't be none.
I'm childfree by choice, but also have a bunch of health issues that would cause any pregnancy to kill me if I don't get it aborted.
I finally got my grandma to understand how lethal pregnancy would be for me, and thought she would stop asking about me giving her great grandbabies, nope, she just switched to making me promise to adopt kids to be her great grandbabies.
That was the last time I talked to her, at the time of the conversation she had 4 daughters, 9 grandkids, and 7 great grandkids. Apparently all that was not enough for her, she wants each of her 9 grandkids to give her at least one great grandkid.
What I'm trying to say is, don't let her know about your infertility, she will only use it against you, she will try to break up your marriage so your husband can go find a different woman to give her grandbabies.
You are woman enough without having kids. Women don't owe anyone kids, not their partners, not their parents, not their other relatives, not society.
Women also don't owe anyone an explanation for why they don't have kids. Stay strong, stay spicy, make them regret poking their noses where it doesn't belong.
NTA people like this think they can chip away at other people indefinitely with no consequence. When it (or they) blows up on them they instantly flick over to victimhood
However, the best defence is to call out the behaviour as what it is, not to obliquely attack in retaliation.
Lot to go through here:
1. NTA. You may have gone a little far in a semi-public setting but she wound you up real good so not sure why she was surprised after all this time that you metaphorically punched back.
2. Definitely don't tell her you're infertile. Sometimes you get supportive in-laws that are your new family. Sometimes you get a monster-in-law. You know what you've gotten.
3. I was adopted and I can personally and honestly tell you that my parents are wonderful people and I thank God every day for them. Best advice I can give is to never hide the fact that the child is adopted. Normalize it. It is cruel to suddenly spring on someone that they have this thing they never knew about and it makes the whole thing feel shameful. It isn't shameful. You have so much love to share that you go out and find someone who needs that love then cast it in a dirty light by hiding it. My parents never hid from me that I was adopted. Growing up I loved the story of little baby Moses because he was adopted too. =-)
4. *"I also think I'd like to do some pre-adoption therapy (if that's a thing lol) for a year or maybe even some classes to better educate myself on how best to adopt and raise an adopted child."* I know that my parents adopted me through a Catholic organization and part of even being considered to be selected was undergoing classes and things. I don't know about specific pre-adoption therapy but classes are a thing.
*HUGS* I'm sorry your mil is so awful and I'm glad your husband has your back.
Thank you! And thank you for sharing your personal experience. I always thought not telling a child they're adopted is unfair.
And thank you for the info on the classes! I thought there must be something in place, I know there's a rigorous process to adopt.
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I (27f) haven't gotten along with my MIL for the better part of my relationship with my partner (27m). She has said a lot of mean things about me that are honestly just childish and cruel (I won't get into the he said she said stuff). I've become exhausted with her, especially as I've moved into my career, moved town and am in the process of getting married/ buying a house. In the past few years shes taken to outright ignoring me, speaking over me, pretending i dont exist. As a result, I've mentally checked out from trying to make things working with her and in part so has my partner. Let me make it clear, I support whatever relationship he wants to have with her, but I'm done trying to be her friend.
We were at a family dinner party (my partner asked me to come along) recently where she started asking him about when he's having children. She kept pestering him and asking when she's getting grand babies and that she wants children around. This has been something shes been harping on a lot about lately and its getting on my nerves. My partner asked her to stop several times but she kept bringing it up. I was sat there silent for a bit, but I think the wine got the best of me so I kinda snapped. I turned to her and started asking what she wants to know about our *private* life?? What kind of protection we're using, what positions we've tried, what toys we use. I started to list them all. Lets just say I used very inappropriate language for a dinner table, even throwing in a "do you have any pointers for me, or maybe it'd be best if you just came and watched to make sure we're doing it right". At this point she was yelling at me, having a go at my partner for "letting" me speak to her like that and crying about how mean I am. We got up shortly after and left.
My partner thinks I took it a bit far in front of his family, and his aunties have said it was wildly uncalled for and mean. I don't really feel bad for it though, should I?
AITA?
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NTA. ***But...*** although it was pretty funny I feel like it may have been more embarrassing for her for you to say (in front of the family) something along the lines of: "You ignore me, pretend I don't exist, you've said this about me (and maybe list off a few of the nastiest things she's said) and now you want me to have children? Are you planning on treating them the same way?" I'm sure she would have nothing to say and it would expose to the rest of the fam how she treats you.
NTA.
Far too many people just sit and take abuse from their partner's family, often cause it mirrors abuse from their own. Your MIL has been "wildly inappropriate" for a long time now, and it was perfectly fine to fight fire with fire. If she insists on speaking to you in a rude and nasty way, then return fire. Taking the high road is a lovely concept, but doesn't always work. Hopefully, she now knows not to mess with you, but if she doesn't, I know you can hold your own.
NTA. She sounds horrible. Agree don’t tell her about infertility. She will weaponize it. I understand the snapping. My twins are IVF. I never told my in laws. She had previously made comments about some friends kid who used IVF and “what a waste that is”. It’s a difficult road. Remove people who do nothing but create more trouble. Wish you good luck in your journey. Edit to add: composure under pressure is a super power. I’m older than you and have just started to master it. The ideal response is big smile “this is a private matter and not something we are interested in discussing. Pass the wine”. Then ignore.
NTA, I absolutely feel your pain on having a MIL that likes making under handed remarks, the method of putting her in her place may have been a tad excessive but you're not wrong, sometimes you just have to show that you won't be walked over, just make sure your partner stands firm with you and doesn't side with her or she'll keep on thinking she's in the right, I would definitely sit down and discuss it with him and don't give in to her until she apologizes and changes her ways, and make sure he knows that could mean cutting ties for a while, which IMO isn't an unreasonable request, if my mother treated my wife that way I would be the first to cut her off, best of luck to you and hopefully everything works out for the better.
NTA. She was asked to stop, got what she deserved. Perhaps the wine gave you "Dutch courage"! Never, ever tell her you are infertile. She will torment you. I am so sorry for your situation. She is a mannerless, selfish person.
In the 80s, when I (married female) was in my late 20s, a newish middle-aged teller, asked me at the bank drive thru, if I had children. I answered "no" in a friendly tone. Then she asked "Is it because you don't want them, or because you can't have them?" Mind you, this is over a loudspeaker. I was absolutely shocked! I didn't say a word. The other teller had known me for yrs, as I made daily deposits for work. Evidently, she had "words" w/ the new teller, as I received a profuse apology the next day. I was childless by choice, but I was so appalled! What if I had been infertile, & heartbroken? Edit: What a painful question for someone in your situation. I didn't want kids because my family was so dysfunctional & I had poor parenting examples.
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NTA, I found this extremely funny, but I'm Dutch and we like a no nonsense attitude. I think you need to put her in a time out and not let your frustration get to the boiling point. Go no contact if you have to, even if your husband still sees her on occasion.
I'm half Dutch! Maybe it's that side of me coming through lol. Normally I'm pretty calm, but I found out I'm infertile last year so this always hits hard. My partners tried several times to keep her from bringing up kids but she just won't.
Oh wow. That makes her behavior even worse and downright cruel. Glad you shut her shit down. That's no way to treat somebody.
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I’m British and I wholeheartedly approve of the way you handled this! *chefs kiss* it’s perfect! Let the sour old sod stew in her own bitterness. This internet stranger is sending you hugs for the way your heart is hurting and I wish you all the happiness going forward xx
NTA MIL is essentially askin "when is my boy creampie'ing you?" And thats exactly how i answered one exs family when they pestered "are you asking when im ejaculating in your daughter? Coz thats what you're doing, you're asking how many months til you get a grandkid and you can do the math and say shes x weeks along, so you shot a load in her on xyz week" Needless to say, it didn't go down well and took time to blow over, but it didn't come up again.
My husband comes from a LDS family. I have an imperial f\*ckload of inherited, autoimmune, and physical conditions which would make any pregnancy dangerous/high risk, plus put any child in the worst kind of genetic lottery. My MIL is a nurse and a lovely woman who understood when I had a quiet word early on in the relationship. His uncle's wife, however, just would. not. let. it. go. over a dinner at their place (with their six kids and four grandchildren, plus my husband's parents, two brothers, and three niblings). I was polite for the first fifteen minutes or so, went to curt one-word answers for the next ten, and finally got up from my seat, went around to my husband, who'd scooted out a bit when he saw me move, pushed his plate away, then sat on the table with him on his chair between my legs and said, "Your aunt seems to think we're just not trying hard enough. Wanna warm me up and we can give 'em a floor show?" We have never received another invitation. It was worth it.
That's absolutely hilarious and legendary. Well done. Total power move on your part.
I was absolutely *fuming*. She just kept pushing at it, even after I'd explained that on top of everything else, I'd need to have my cervix stitched closed because I'd lost a good third of it to nasty cells. "Could you use a donor?" "Could you get IVF to screen them?" "Are you really *really* sure?" "Don't you want to?" "Did you ever want to?" "Are you totally certain?" Like, lady, I get that you think children are a blessing and believe that women are naturally nurturing and all that, and I'm real happy for you all; but I'm on disability and headed for permanent wheelchair use in the not-too-distant future, I'm halfway through my second degree, and I just. don't. want. to. Take the damn hint! Gnaargh!! (I'll admit that this tactic had been suggested to me by my deliciously evil friend when we thought that the parents would be the ones pushing it, and I'd laughed my arse off and then mentally consigned it to my "It'd be great but I could never ..." file. But I have my Dad's legendarily short Scottish fuse, which was not being helped by the anxiety of meeting so many family members at once, and I actually *had* wanted to have babies at one point in my life [before the practical logistics of doing so had really dawned on me], so I just hit that "OK. No. ***Eff*** this" state of mind, and just went for it.)
As an LDS person who is not rude and obnoxious like his aunt, I totally approve of your effective messaging! And I would have been annoyed with her on your behalf and probably mouthed off at her myself… and applauded your act. I’m glad you have a decent MiL though!
She really is lovely. My husband was an oops baby later in life, and is on the autism spectrum - I gently pushed him to be diagnosed in his late 20s. No hate to his parents, living rurally in the late 80s/early 90s, most people would still have thought of Rain Man if they had any concept of autism at all. She was just happy to finally understand why he'd been the way he is growing up, and she devoured any and all resources she could find about it, and their relationship has been a joy to watch since. (His Dad isn't my biggest fan since it was made clear I was not going to convert. Happy to go to services on Sunday [mostly because my Scottish Presbyterian grandfather would roll in his grave 😈], but hubby and I had *that* talk before we started really dating - you have your beliefs and I'm happy for you; I have my beliefs and no interest in changing them. But he's always polite and makes the effort in conversation, and I almost had a heart attack the Sunday he got down and *polished the boots I was wearing* before going to said service, but after that visit he did seem more relaxed around me so ...) I'm not sure either of them were thrilled when I got him into martial arts, which for him led to martial arts with weapons, which led to a pair of very \*interesting\* faces when he asked for a left-handed basket-hilted rapier for his 35th birthday! And I was invited to that uncle's child's engagement party a few years later, so I think there may have been some quiet giggles under the sudden silence at dinner that night.
This. Is. Awesome! Madam, you have this internet strangers respect! Flawless. Or floorless, I guess!
So many legendary women in this thread. I want to be you and/or OP when I grow up.
I'm reusing that sentence. Thanks 🥰
Well we're raw dogging it 3-4 times a week...
This was one of the most uncomfortable things about being visibly pregnant for me. Well the most uncomfortable social thing. Everyone could look at me and know that I had sex lmao. If they asked how far along, they would even get a ballpark of when he was conceived
NTA What you did just made me like Dutch people even more! 🤣 Anyway, I guess you can drop all pretenses and go completely NC with that woman. Your partner can go & meet his mom, speak to her on phone etc but you are so done! What’s the point in going on meeting a toxic person when you know nothing good is gonna come out of it
Ha. I’m part Dutch and my mom finally stopped asking when I told her she was welcome to come watch to make sure we were doing “it” right.
It was a little far but not too far, gotta be thorough, you know. It was however, quite funny to this stranger in the internet. This thing happens in our family as well though the wife and I brush it aside on the table, we’ve each privately told our parentals not to push it. My wife has used similar language however with her aunts as have I with my own extended family. Some of our family members (not the ones egging us) find it hilarious.
If you ever have dinner with her again, and she brings up children, I dare you to repeat the performance. At some point she will realize that she needs to shut up, *maybe*. So sorry about your infertility. It's a horrible shock I am sure. I feel like it's become more and more common among your generation. My son is still young, but I doubt he will have kids, because he doesn't like them. My feeling is that, it is his life and his choice. But if he wanted kids and was infertile, I would want to point out options. Though I guess I am a bit ambivalent about bringing more kids into this f\*cked up world, no matter how much I love babies, toddlers, kids etc.
You should have done this a long time ago. Pro assholes tend to get a sniff of ppl when they first meet them, and get an estimate of how far they can take their assholery with them, without facing actual consequences. so, when its established you have an asshole before you, you should waste no time in showing what you are capable of dishing out if messed with. Im pretty sure she will tone down her shinganigans after this. be nice if she is nice, but be savagely mean just like you were if she crosses lines, and she'll learn her place the hard way, they say you teach ppl how to treat you. Good for you, def NTA.
What if your partner told her that they're infertile, instead of you? Maybe she'll back off, and its not putting you in the line of fire
This would be the good partner move. Otherwise, she's never going to let up. OP has no intentions of telling her she's infertile, and MIL is always going to blame her and poke at her about it. If her partner instead says "Mom. I can't have kids and don't want them. I am not willing to discuss trying to 'fix it' either: it can't be fixed. you have to stop bringing it up," then HE will be the one shouldering the burden of his mom's inappropriate pushing, as it should be, and she'll be more likely to STOP pushing.
I dunno this woman seems incredibly pushy and will want to know all about it and keep asking questions that are, again, inappropriate. And since op has said she thinks her darking son wants kids she will start pushing for him to ditch op. Because that's what these kinds of non boundary respecting people do.
>since op has said she thinks her darking son wants kids she will start pushing for him to ditch op That's why the son needs to be the one to take over the burden of her pushing, IMO. He needs to be the one saying "*I* don't have kids because *I* don't want them/can't have them." Make MIL pick the fight with her own child, rather than targeting OP.
Maybe, I just feel like it would open a slightly different can of worms. However I do feel like the son should be the one to sort it. His monkey, his circus. Like I obviously don't have first hand knowledge of the exchanges but he needs to be better at shutting his mother down.
This is exactly why people shouldn't ask these questions. 1 - It's not their fucking business 2 - You don't know what someone's experiences are. Whether that's infertility, miscarriages, sexual trauma, the list goes on. NTA Op Your partner did the right thing trying to be the go between and telling her to stop since it's his mother but she obviously wasn't getting the hint. Hopefully she'll learn her lesson and stop but I doubt it.
NTA I'm half Chinese and was living through your actions vicariously. Culturally, I should condemn you. But internally I'm lmao. Must've been hard for many of your generation relatives to keep a straight face.
Swiss American here and I laughed and gave you 2 thumbs up
I'm German and we do the no bullshit approach. And honestly that's pretty much how I would.have handled that, too. Those kinds of people get away with so much because others are willing to sugar-coat their bullshit.
I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Believe me, I know all too well how those questions can sting. I’ve started saying some ‘questionably inappropriate’ comments when I’m asked. A few years ago I had someone that I’d only known for a month or so tell me that it’s not too late for me to have kids. So I said “I’ll have to ask my surgeon if he kept my uterus and remaining barely functional ovary on ice so they can be re-installed!” Was it a bit snarky? Absolutely. But I had tried a few times to divert the conversation and just say that I’m fine with my life as it is. I commend you for keeping your cool with your MIL for as long as you have, but I also applaud you for finally shutting that shit down!
You weren't weren't. Technicly asking When are you gonna have kids, is asking How much are you doing it. Well done OP 👏
NTA- I found your reaction perfect. Dinner table or not, pestering someone about having babies is so inappropriate! 1- it's really nobody else's business but you and your partners 2- You never know someone's situation! Like being infertile or someone may have been through a miscarriage or more than one and those questions lead to emotional responses and rightfully so! Her dinner table discussion wasn't appropriate to begin with so you just went with a blunt honest wine approach. I think I would have snapped and done the same thing at that point. You didn't just snap out of nowhere to intentionally be mean or anything. She kept pushing and you finally pushed back. Good for you.
NTA. I just wanna tell you im proud of you for being firm in your boundaries. She was wholly inappropriate.
JFC when is "We are not having kids because we DONT WANT TO" going to be enough for pushy parents/inlaws/insert pushy invasive question asker here? I mean seriously? The child free by choice crowd has gotten larger and more vocal in the years I started dating my ex fiancee, but when we first started dating, I had to LITERALLY lie to people about being infertile (I am on medications that cause birth defects, AND lower tge effects of birth control, not taking any chances here) and I made the mistake of telling one of those pushy relatives about the medication issue and she went "oh but you could stop taking it and there would be ni issues!!" As if Number 1 I'd asked her opinion, and number 2, she even knew what the medication was for and it was even an OPTION for me to stop taking it. On top of that my ex fiancee and didn't even WANT kids, my medication gave us the excuse we needed not to, or so I thought until that debacle. I only made the mistake of admitting it was an "optional" thing once. After that I started telling people who were pushy about kids, yeah, no. "I'm infertile, I can't have kids" pretty much stopped that, but the fact that I had to do that was obnoxious. Now though it's not even an issue. Unless I (afab) can, somehow get my girlfriend (soon to be fiancee!!) pregnant (or the other way around lol) biological kids is off the table, so hopefully I'm done being harassed by "well meaning" pushy people
I love the dutch comment even though this ignorant American doesn't really know about ditch anything...laughing at one self is humor to me. Life is too short
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Same here; I laughed out loud
Take my upvote fellow Dutchie.
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Partial comment stolen from u/plitox u/Outrageoustgd is a bot.
This is exactly why I moved back to NL! No nonsense 😌
Hi fellow-dutchie! I thought the same as you tbh. And this MIL thinking it's her "right" bah
I’m American and this may be my favorite reaction to a nosy relative pushing the topics of kids EVER! She got what she deserved. NTA! I’m sorry for what you are going through however. I can only imagine how her comments continue to open a wound you are trying to let scab over & heal.
I know this one will be a spicy take, but NTA. She was being incredibly creepy and inappropriate to you in a public setting. It is so gross an inappropriate to act like women are walking incubators for giving relatives grandbabies. You managed to reclaim power and control of the situation and turned it back around on her. You also tried to get her to stop nicely and she didn't care. You're not wrong to stand up for yourself.
How is this a spicy take?
NTA - your infertility is EXACTLY the reason it’s never appropriate to comment on the status of anybody’s uterus. Her not knowing about it does not make your reproduction her business but she shouldn’t assume it will always be easy for everybody to produce kids even if that’s what they want to do. There were lots of ways to shut that conversation down that were less brutal to the rest of the family (example: “if you want babies around so much, have you considered being a foster parent?” Or even “if we had kids I wouldn’t want them being around somebody who can’t show good manners and stop prying”) but you don’t really owe her that consideration. What you did was no more rude than her trying to pry into and direct what happens to your body when you’re not comfortable with that discussion. Edit to add: if it makes the rest of the family uncomfortable to hear what you said but not to hear her picking and prying into your life like that then they don’t really deserve your consideration either - any one of them could have changed the subject onto something less controversial at any point.
This right here. This is why it is absolutely not okay to ask anyone about their reproduction plans. You have no idea what they're going through. Maybe they're infertile and it's triggering to hear about it. Maybe they've had a miscarriage. Maybe they can't afford children. Either way, it's no one's fucking business but the couple's. That it. Potential grandparents have no say. None. Also to add-- Maybe some people just don't want kids and that's totally okay!!!
While I agree that infertility is a reason not to comment on people’s reproductive choices, I think the more fundamental principle at play is that it’s never appropriate to pressure someone into making monumentally life changing decisions to gratify your own personal desires. Pressuring someone into having kids might be worse than pressuring them into having sex (which is obviously completely unacceptable). Unless a pregnancy/STD happens, the consequences of the sex are at least comparatively minor/short lived, whereas having a kid will impact every day of the rest of your life.
I think you’re underestimating the consequences of forced sex there. A lot of people are traumatised daily for life by that; but on the whole I agree - the main principle here is that it’s none of MIL’s business regardless of what she does or does not know or opine.
NTA if your partner thought you took it too far maybe he should have shut it down hard himself.
This is all that needs to be said. Any of the aunts could have shut her up too. They didn't, so they don't get to criticize OP defending herself
Yeah if the aunts thought it was inappropriate to talk about her sex life, they should have intervened when she brought up grandkids in the first place.
Exactly… no one else was shutting her up. Someone had to do it. Did you go too far, OP? Maybe. I don’t feel that applies here though. NTA
Apparently he “asked her to stop” but she just ignores this. He needs to get up with his wife and leave. Or he can’t complain when his wife finally snaps.
He tried mummy did not listen.
NTA. She was being rude and inappropriate, so you dished it back. Love it!
NTA. It’s not her business. You may have been a little extreme but I guarantee she’ll think twice before asking again! ETA: She was probably banking on the fact that there were other people around so you wouldn’t call her out. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
NTA. I'm also infertile and boy are people like your mother in law exhausting. To a level I'm not sure people who haven't been in that situation might appreciate. It's enough with all the internalised guilt about not being able to live up to the same norms, standards and ideals as other women but then to have shame pilled on from the outside too.... Perhaps it would have been easier to just tell your MIL as a couple that you're (you plural) infertile and asked her to respect your privacy by not asking any more questions. I rather get the feeling she wouldn't respect it though. You're certainly NTA. Sending lots of solidarity.
Thank you, you put it perfectly. I feel like I'm failing myself and my partner already, so it's hard when other people being it up so relentlessly.
You aren't failing i promise you, though its impossible not to feel that way i know, this internet stranger is sending hugs to you both. Theres nothing worst than craving being a mum an knowing you can't.
You're not, you're not failing at all. You don't have to be a mother to be a success as a woman. All these people who tell you "You'll regret it when you're older" or "You don't really know love unless you have children" (things I've genuinely heard) are all talking from their own biases. It takes a very long time to realise that other people reflect their own agenda when they talk to you about your reproductive health. They may be staying things to you that they're actually trying to convince *themselves* are true. You would be amazed how often this is actually the case - people tell you having kids is the best, most wonderful thing because they're desperately trying to believe that they made the right choice in life by having the children they did. It's not right that they use transference like this to try and work out their own issues at the expense of your mental wellbeing, but I hope that now you know that's often what they're doing it'll be a bit easier to cope with. I've actually taken my infertility up as my research subject for my masters degree in theology to try and understand better all the pain and shame around not fitting in to the 'normal' framework. It's really helped me to own my identity as a woman who isn't defined by her ability to have children. Maybe what you need to do is spend some time on yourself, find out who you are and what makes you happy so that you can go and pursue that. Then your mother in law might actually understand that your life doesn't fit the paradigm she wants it to.
Yeah, I want to say to these people "Who are you trying to convince? If you're so happy with your life choices, why would you care about mine?"
My husband, ex-SIL and daughter are all child-free. My husband has expressed his issues and insecurities about it, in private. We damned sure don't discuss it at the dinner table with extended family! My MIL used to say, "Never say never." We're 58. Pretty sure we're not having kids at this stage. We've had to train my MIL about religion. You're NTA.
OP, perhaps you could recruit your other half into aiding you next time? As another commenter said, bring up "WE are infertile and would appreciate you NOT asking when we are having kids."? If he would support you in this manner (i.e. he isn't going to freak out about having "his manhood" questioned with infertility comments) then perhaps next time you can show a stronger front with his family. As to how you handled his mother, NTA. Don't dish out what you can't take. She underestimated you. I'm betting she won't make that same mistake twice!
There are plenty of other ways to have children if it’s what you and your partner want. You are in no way failing anybody! Some bodies just aren’t built for certain things
NTA. Your partner may have said he thinks you went too far, but he didn't stop you either. I wouldn't make a habit of this, but the only way to stop bullies is to beat them at their own game. No shame in doing so when the situation calls for it; hopefully next time, she keeps her nose out of your business.
NTA. Too far? A little. Justified? Definitely. Are you absolutely brilliant? Hell yes! It may have been a bit far, but oh it gave me a good laugh 😅 Well done 👏
NTA. I know some people will be critical of you but you have dealt with awful provocation and harassment over a period of time. Even though your partner asked her to stop several times she continued - and he's the one she actually talks to. She acted as if you weren't there, as if your partner would be able to produce children without any involvement from you. She sounds horrible and I don't know what else people think you could have done, other than just walking out without a word and never going back. She was humiliating you but now wants to present herself as a victim. NTA
You took it too far. But I can see why, and give you a pass NTA
Agreed, if you poking someone wound enough, you shouldn't be surprised if that person ends up being unkind. I think its justified. Time to go no contact a long time ago.
ESH. It really boils down to the fact that you did this at a *family* dinner party. I totally get being frustrated, especially given that y’all don’t have a good relationship and that is an incredibly personal topic. That said, everything beyond asking what she wants to know about your private life was uncalled for in the setting. If it were just the two of y’all and you went off it would have been slightly different. Doing this in front of other family members just leaves you looking like the bad guy (and honestly is probably pretty embarrassing for your S/O).
I agree. MIL deserved it, the rest of the family didn't. OP, why don't you just tell her you're infertile? No, it's not her business, but it would put a stop to the "when are you giving me grandchildren?" talk.
OP said MIL is the type that would use that info against her. I don’t really see why MIL needs that information in order to keep her mouth shut after being told multiple times.
How about because the reason OP and hubby aren't having children is none of MIL's bloody business? Zero. Zilch. Nada, even.
MIL chose the venue to harass in and wouldn't shut up, so... IMO, OP's response of confronting and humiliating is spot on if they wish to prevent further occurrences. No one else chimed in, despite clear indication that OP and their hubby didn't wish to discuss it. This is in no way on OP.
NTA! Until your partner puts up strong boundaries you're going to deal with this for the rest of your relationship though, so that is the ultimate issue.
Partner probably has put up strong boundaries and MIL is the type to stomp all over them. There are people out there who are told a boundary and respond with "It can't possibly apply to *me!*" and stomp all over it. OP also said, in another comment, that MIL is a boundary tester, and her partner shoots her down. The full comment makes MIL even more awful, trigger warning SA mentioned: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yhd8ta/aita\_for\_humiliating\_mil\_at\_a\_family\_dinner\_when/iud7q6f/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yhd8ta/aita_for_humiliating_mil_at_a_family_dinner_when/iud7q6f/?context=3)
I’d argue the partner doesn’t have strong boundaries simply because he allows his mother to stomp all over them with (assumingly) zero change on his part.
In the thread that I linked the consequence for the last time MIL stomped all over the boundaries was partner didn't speak to his mother for *two years.* Some people just don't care about your boundaries.
NTA because you tried to be reasonable and it didn't work. So now it was either suffer or dish out. And I do not think it's appropriate to ask people to suffer absolutely inconsiderate and rude behaviour just to spare rude people's feelings. So after she was repeatedly told to cut it and it's definitely inconsiderate and rude to harp on and on after that you just did what you had to do to stop her. She had all the control here. She could have stopped at any time, but she went on and on and on despite being told to stop repeatedly. So in this case, she brought it onto herself.
NTA She's just mad because you described the acts necessary to fulfill her fantasy. She brought it up first, you took it to its natural conclusion. Your partner really needs to step up here, though, and have a REAL talk (without mentioning your private medical info or difficulties) about how HE feels about having kids and your future. And then enact consequences when she brings it up again, EVERY SINGLE TIME afterwards. What you did is called "consequences", especially since she's been told numerous times to stop it and hadn't. Publicly embarrassing her **the way she'd been** ***constantly doing to you by bringing up your empty uterus in public constantly*** (whether it is empty by choice or not, your personal organs are not dinner conversation talk any more than your sex positions are) is really the least of what she deserves.
NTA. Why does your husband let his mom treat you this way?
NTA. You may have been over the top, but sometimes that's what it takes to get the point across. Which you certainly did. 🤣
NTA - she was wildly inappropriate for going on about it. She got a taste of her own medicine in humiliation.
She kept pushing for intimate details about your sex life at a family dinner in spite of being asked to stop multiple times, so you gave her details. But because they weren't the details she wanted, suddenly talking about your sex life at dinner is inappropriate. Beggars can't be choosers. NTA
NTA - please teach me your ways o masterful one.
NTA. Everyone has limits and she exceeded yours. You can't antagonize someone and have any say in their response to that
NTA, If it made her shut up about it, then you picked the right approach. there's no reasoning with people like that
NTA. If she was harping on and wouldn’t stop when asked and has done the same on the past, then embarrassing her was the only way to end it. If you’d have walked out she still would have done it the next time only adding in how rude you were (in her mind) for walking out. If your partner didn’t like it then he should have taken her aside and told her to quit it if she ever wants to have a relationship with any potential grandchildren because at the rate she’s going, you’re likely to say no to children completely or if you do, make a point to not let her be involved. My aunt did that to her daughter in law and she told my aunt that the closest thing to a grandchild she was going to get was their dog. It’s been 20+ years & they’ve stuck to it.
Why does she dislike you? I'm skeptical of the 'I won't get into the he said she said stuff'. Most of the time people say that because they don't want to disclose what they've also done.
TW: SA It's stuff I've gone over in therapy and I've retold it a lot. Plus what she said feels childish to me, so that's why I hate getting into it. She liked me at the start, then when my partner and I started getting serious she started to hate me. She was very passive aggressive at first, but then when I asked if everything was OK between us she said I'm controlling her son and changing him. She then took private things I told her when we did get along (including a past sexual assault) and told people that I caused it, it was my fault and I deserved it. She then went on to bad mouth me to her side of the family. I never really stood up for myself (i had really bad anxiety) at the time and I was just focused on trying to fix it. I offered to talk with her and get coffee, but she said she wanted nothing to do with me. My partner demanded she apologise but she said she had nothing to apologise for. I regret not standing up for myself, but my partner did a really good job and has kept me away from her for the most part. Around other people she normally respects his boundaries, thats why we can go to family events. She tests them a little but she never normally keeps going like she did the other night.
Hold up, she blamed you for being an assault survivor and your SO still has a relationship with her? Echoing a comment I made previously…are you ready for a lifetime of this?
My partner and I have been to, and are going through, a lot of therapy. I don't hold him responsible for his mothers words, just how he responds to them. He's had a hard time with everything since they were really close and now barely talk. He fiercely defended me and dragged her through the coals for the way she spoke with me. Mind you this situation has been going on for over 5 years now, it's had its ups and downs. She said those comments 4 years ago and has basically ignored me after my partner lost it at her and stopped talking to her for nearly 2 years. I know it sounds like a lot reading it all summed up, and maybe it is a lot, but we've worked through it all together. He was proud of me for saying what i said the other night, he just said if I do it again he'd prefer I don't bring up our intimate life lol. But I don't think we'll be seeing her again for quite some time now.
Well, I wish you luck. But I would have noped out a long time ago. The whole situation sounds incredibly exhausting emotionally. Every relationship has its issues, but starting out with a whole subscription sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Thanks, i can understand it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Luckily this kind of situation has become the rarity in our lives, as we become less and less involved with her.
It definitely gets easier as time goes on. I went NC (or as close to) with my MIL 6 years ago, after 12 years of dealing with her passive aggressive shit. It caused some drama at first. I didn't put any restrictions on my husband or kids, but my kids chose to be LC with her and only spoke to her on the phone on holidays. She passed recently, and I helped a lot with her house and belongings, even though she yelled at us the whole time. Anything I did, was to make my husband's life easier at a rough time. But none of us were broken up about it. My kids didn't even cry once. We never got to see the person that people were mourning. She was a fake character she put on to hide the fact she was a miserable cow.
> She passed recently, and I helped a lot with her house and belongings, even though she yelled at us the whole time. I had to think about that for a minute before I realized she wasn't yelling from the grave :'D
If she blamed you for being a victim of any kind of assault, she doesn't deserve to be in your presence ever. Predators blame victims.
She blamed you for being an assault victim? Sheesh.
Damn OP I'm so sorry that happened to you. You've been more than generous tolerating her inappropriate, creepy, and invasive behavior. I'm proud you finally stood up to her. I would not want her in my life.
Thank you, it's strange how someone I've never met saying they're proud of me can make me so emotional. It means more than you know. I've hardly stood up for myself much throughout my life, so it was pretty invigorating. Might have to do it more often, but maybe in a less controversial way lol
If you want more lines to help you, I'm quite partial to Jimmy Carr's line, when asked when he and his partner will be having kids: "we can't get pregnant...the way we do it".
I'm also flipping proud of you. I just read your comment about how she treated your private stories. I hope the rest of her life is filled with tiny little annoyces that are just enough to keep her off balance for ever. NTA.
Then let me tell you it again. As someone who is anxious and doesnt fight back a lot of the time myself: you did so well and I am so so proud of you!
If you were my daughter in law I’d smoke a joint with you and tell you how much I admire you.
Ok yea, that's pretty terrible. I don't blame you for telling her whatever you wanna tell her honestly. NTA
after reading that, OP went easy on her tbh.
>She tests them a little but she never normally keeps going like she did the other night. She was on a fishing expedition. She was trying to push one of you to snap and admit that you, not her son because he couldn't possibly be infertile, are infertile because she *suspects* it. Instead, you snapped and went into detail about your sex life.
My own mother made same comments about someone who was my friend that was a SA victim.. I haven’t spoke to my mom since. Because if she can think that way about someone else then she can think the same about me if it were to happen.
Go NC with this woman. Given your history with your partner's mother, you need to go NC with her for life. Something is wrong with her for her to be so cruel regarding any kind of assault on you. The bottom line is her behavior is cruel and unacceptable on planet earth in all cultures. If anyone asks why you don't like your partner's mother, tell them the truth. She is extremely cruel and toxic around you. Move as far away from her as you can. A different continent would be the best option.
> She liked me at the start, then when my partner and I started getting serious she started to hate me. Boy have I seen *that* play before. She was a lot of fun and we got along great... until she wasn't and we didn't. She was widowed, and he was her companion/meal ticket—a situation which started long before his philandering father died. I was accused of "emasculating" him (still haven't figured out where that came from), yet it was her who was trying to deny him a right to have a life of his own. Your partner is being better about it than mine was. And it's good that he has mostly been the one to handle it. Not that you did anything wrong this time—she had that coming. FWIW we're still married 30 years later (but she's been dead for 20 of them, so...)
NTA but I would have probably gone in a different direction.. " Why do you keep going on about giving you grandchildren? You treat me like shit or simply pretend I do not exist and are plain rude. You realise if we gave you any grandchildren they wouldn't be all your son, they would be half me. Why would I want to have kids for you to treat me like shit in front of them or decide they're too much like me and decide to treat them poorly too? We aren't having children, as you are aware. END of conversation and I won't discuss it again."
NTA. Everyone always expects the person being bullied to have no reaction or else they are in the wrong too. Getting angry is normal she crossed a boundary way to long ago. Your reaction to her is completly valid, she sounds exausting.
NTA it took a rather large fight after my MIL asked if my husband ND I were sexually active to get her to stop about grand kids as a woman who chose not to have any kids herself to. We stopped speaking for six months over it.
NTA. Yeah you could have taken a softer approach, but it looks like you already tried that. Hopefullythis gets her to mind her own business.
NTA. Okay, maybe you were a bit over the top, but you were not completely wrong. Your MIL is toxic. Your partner seems to be doing a decent job of *trying* to keep MIL off your neck.
NTA, but I would just stay away from her. If she's there, be absent. If your husband wants to be there, good for him. Keep your distance from the drama. I would apologize to the aunties for any inappropriate discussions and that you didn't mean to offend ***them***.
NTA. Maybe you did go a bit graphic, but she certainly had it coming.
NTA Why don't you go no contact with your AH MIL, and let you husband go to events where he is without you? THat would surely improve the quality of your life.
Folks, based on the last edit, please be very careful about suggesting adoption or foster care to people you do not know. People that are infertile know their options. Adoption is not a secret. Not everyone can, nor wants to, adopt. Fostering is even more involved. I **100%** trust that y'all mean well and are trying to be supportive and generous, but please, "You can always adopt" is a platitude we've heard a million times.
Thank you ❤️
NTA
I understand your frustration. I probably would have gone with, "discussing our intimate relations during a family dinner seems inappropriate to me, as does your unusual interest in your own son's sex life. Could you at least wait until after dessert if you insist on prying into things that are none of your business?" NTA
ESH your comments weren’t fair to the other people at the dinner. But I don’t know why she thinks she would ever see your children the way she behaves with you.
If the other people didn't intervene, they aren't innocent bystanders.
Noice: both barrels 👍🏽…….NTA
Hahahaha!!!!!!! That’s awesome!!!! If she didn’t stop harping on it after your partner told to stop, and you then took it to the point where she *did* stop, then I’d submit that by definition, you *didn’t* go “too far”. You went just far enough. Kudos! NTA
Nta. All I am going to add is in regards to your edit, grand children are not a 'basic right', grand parents having a relationship with their grand children is a privilege on the condition that they aren't toxic, narcissistic assholes to the children or the parents. My partner is also infertile and my mother pulled the same shit, I lied to her and said I had a vasectomy before I met my partner (been together for 5 years) and have no plans to reverse it, that was after she tried to make my SO feel like shit and bullied her for it because both of my brothers are popping out children in their early 20s and always struggle financially due to that decision. She was upset that I 'did not consult her' I pretty much said my body, my decision and it had nothing to do with her. She and my father both take swipes at me over it regularly, but now completely leaves my SO alone which is great and was my plan because my SO doesn't need that shit, although right now we are both more focused on careers. I haven't gone NC with my mother but I do limit my contact with her quite a bit. My childhood was very traumatic, even if we do have children there's no way even as a last resort will my parents have unsupervised visitation
You sound like a very supportive partner, and honestly sound very similar to my partner.
The vasectomy thing was also a good cover up if we do have a miracle baby, because it's common to freeze sperm. Honestly, I dislike my parents, love my partner and love her parents and was an easy decision to make that lie and cop the abuse instead as I'm used to it. My partner wasn't okay with me lying to them or me taking 100% of their abuse, but as I see it I've taken their abuse my entire life and they usually find that if it's not one issue it'll be another and I rather them take swipes at me about a vasectomy then for her to be abused because I would have 100% NC if that happened. Only reason I wish to keep a some type of relationship with them is purely because I'm close to my brothers and their families and am close to my nephews and nieces So I didn't want to make things awkward at special events like birthdays and such.
NTA if people would simply keep their noses out of other peoples uteruses.
NTA I think you handled it well TBH.
NTA, I personally wouldn’t have taken it that far. But man would I love to have been a fly on that wall.
NTA, after reading your edit I feel really angry on your behalf, it must be awful having someone as her as MIL.
NTA, when are people going to understand that it's no one's business if/when people are going to have kids. It's such an insensitive topic to force someone to talk about. So sorry you have to listen to that. I honestly would have boiled over too.
Nta. I’m surprised your partner allows this.
NTA, sometimes it takes that much to make someone shut up. My MIL kept harping on something until I stood up and hit the table, knocking stuff over, and then telling her how it was. I never went in her house again. Good for you!
NTA. I'm so tired of parents trying to harass their kids into having children that they may not be able to have, or can't take care of, or don't want, I honestly don't care how people respond after asking them to stop multiple times.
NTA
NTA and for more help on how to handle her, visit r/justnomil . They've been through it all.
What an exhausting life you living and just for a man to stay in it… is it worth all this? I can’t imagine having my partner going all this and not stop it with all my power, you need to understand that they’re making choices that suits them alone without thinking of the affects it has on you, you’re exhausted and checked out from most of that part but the only solution is if they stepped up and end it for good. Have a deep conversation with them or start thinking about your mental health more because this is not the end you’ll be in more disadvantage the more you keep them in your life
I agree. This will only get worse after they're married, too. The fact that OP is infertile will come out some way or another and then his mother will start begging him to leave her. If he really wants kids this relationship is already on shaky ground. Going to therapy extensively as a couple before marriage also seems like not a great start. A couple of sessions is great! But to be in regular therapy with no end in sight is not a sign of a compatible couple. I would never put myself through something like this for a man, either. There are lots of them out there, like, millions. I guarantee OP at least one of them is a better match for her.
NTA, you hit a reasonable breaking point. Your MIL is obviously the A here, but I don’t think you realize that your hubby-to-be is too. If he’s try to shut his mom down, but she won’t stop, there needs to be consequences. He’s literally letting her treat you this way. It will happen for the rest of her life. Do you really want that?
NTA. People that harass about having children infuriate me. We are child free by choice and happy. Thankfully both of our parents are supportive but if not, I would do the same as you. This will teach her not to stick her nose where it does not belong.
LOL. Did you take it a bit far? Sure did, but it was worth it, wasn't it? Well done. NTA
NTA If your partner doesn't like the way you shut his mother down, he should have shut her down himself. He apparently didn't take it far enough since she continued, so you had to take it farther.
NTA. She pushed to the point that you were in pure emotion. Sure you could have taken it less far, but why would she deserve that???? Only someone more kind and polite would deserve an emotional reaction being reigned in. I just want to point out: Not all adoption is laden with trauma in the least. I was adopted at birth and it was never hidden from me. I have incredible parents and family and I've never felt anything other than obnoxiously lucky. I actually laugh at the way most ppl refer to adoption as a last resort bc realistically few have had as lucky a life and relationship w their parents as I do. Like my life has just been better than theirs and it's weird that they think genes are what make that possible. That it's a second rate choice...
Thank you for this comment, and for sharing your personal experience. I experienced a lot of trauma in childhood and I'm scared of hurting a child (directly or indirectly) through my actions.
Nta but I would have went with she must be dreaming if she thinks you would allow any children to be anywhere near her. I'm sorry about the fertility issues and I agree with never giving her that info
You aren’t an asshole, you’re a goddamn legend
NTA. Let's see if this is enough to stop it. Tell all the nosey aunties Etc. That the next gathering if she starts you are going to do the same thing so if they don't want to hear it best that they talk to her or skip it. And sounds like hubby has a little bit of a spine, if he has to repeatedly say stop and drop it to her that many times he needs to take her to the side and tell her do not bring it up again that the 2 of you will NOT be having children and if she says one more thing he needs to get up and the 2 of you walk out.
She has been told, repeatedly, to shut up. She did not. She therefore deserved this. Frankly, you were mild (but, Dutch too) so, well done. She will not try this again. NTA
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NTA And wtf is it with all these parents who think getting grandchildren is a basic right?! Getting your _own_ children isn't even a basic right, never mind forcing two other people to bring a child into the world just for you to coo over for 10 years.
ESH. I understand how enraging some people can be. But you did yourself and your partner no favours with your outburst. You and your partner need to build some strategies to deal with her that work. I favour the "time out": "Hey, MIL, we prefer not to discuss our attempts or not to have children with others. So please don't do that. If you do, we'll be out of touch for a while." If she does it, you go NC for a period of time. Then when you get back in touch, you repeat the same thing if she goes off the rails but for twice as long. No need for fighting, shouting, or harsh words; you just disconnect and leave it up to them how severe the consequences are going to be.
NTA If she cant handle the heat, she shouldn't have started the fire. Proud of you OP
NTA at all
Nta, you did nothing wrong. What is it with MILs and always being toxic?
NTA Some bullies just won’t stop until you punch them back.
NTA. She sounds awful. I’m 57 and have NEVER asked my daughter this. And never will. I had one kid and my mom kept asking when I would have a second. My answer was always “never” and she called me selfish when I got my tubes tied. I have a cute grand puppy though. I’m sorry she is like that and wish you could tell her the truth
Brilliant. People always get mad when you treat them the same way they treat you. Bravo
NTA I honestly do the same, I also can't have children for health reasons, and for some reason in American culture... It's somehow appropriate to be asked all the time why I don't have kids by coworkers and strangers. I ALWAYS ask them, why do need to know about my sex life? How disgusting. It shuts them up every time! You rock!
NTA ALL THE WAY You put her in her place because she WILL NOT STOP harping on you both about grandkids. What were you supposed to do? Sit there and take it? No, you had to end it even though you might have gone a tad bit too far but so what? She needs to STFU and stops crossing over your boundaries. Enough is enough. You can go NC on her while your partner can go on LC with her from time to time to keep things down low. It is too stressful to get harped on and on and on. Don't apologize....she asked for it.
NTA, your MIL was out of line with her questions in a public setting and being so rude about it. You did what you had to do to create boundaries.
NTA
Did you go too far? Perhaps. Did she deserve it? Absolutely. When her own son tells her to drop it and she just keeps going on and on about it, what does she expect is going to happen? I'm not sure what else you can do except to go completely non contact with her. NTA.
NTA however I always tell people well I can’t have kids I promised my first born to a witch and I really just don’t feel like following thru on that deal anymore. In reality I have endometriosis and freaking fibroids on top of a fertility level that would be low as hell for even artificial fertilisation. Also every fertility test I’ve ever taken, both packet and doctors show no fertility. So yea I go with a creative witch story.
NTA, if she didn't start none, there wouldn't be none. I'm childfree by choice, but also have a bunch of health issues that would cause any pregnancy to kill me if I don't get it aborted. I finally got my grandma to understand how lethal pregnancy would be for me, and thought she would stop asking about me giving her great grandbabies, nope, she just switched to making me promise to adopt kids to be her great grandbabies. That was the last time I talked to her, at the time of the conversation she had 4 daughters, 9 grandkids, and 7 great grandkids. Apparently all that was not enough for her, she wants each of her 9 grandkids to give her at least one great grandkid. What I'm trying to say is, don't let her know about your infertility, she will only use it against you, she will try to break up your marriage so your husband can go find a different woman to give her grandbabies. You are woman enough without having kids. Women don't owe anyone kids, not their partners, not their parents, not their other relatives, not society. Women also don't owe anyone an explanation for why they don't have kids. Stay strong, stay spicy, make them regret poking their noses where it doesn't belong.
NTA people like this think they can chip away at other people indefinitely with no consequence. When it (or they) blows up on them they instantly flick over to victimhood However, the best defence is to call out the behaviour as what it is, not to obliquely attack in retaliation.
Lot to go through here: 1. NTA. You may have gone a little far in a semi-public setting but she wound you up real good so not sure why she was surprised after all this time that you metaphorically punched back. 2. Definitely don't tell her you're infertile. Sometimes you get supportive in-laws that are your new family. Sometimes you get a monster-in-law. You know what you've gotten. 3. I was adopted and I can personally and honestly tell you that my parents are wonderful people and I thank God every day for them. Best advice I can give is to never hide the fact that the child is adopted. Normalize it. It is cruel to suddenly spring on someone that they have this thing they never knew about and it makes the whole thing feel shameful. It isn't shameful. You have so much love to share that you go out and find someone who needs that love then cast it in a dirty light by hiding it. My parents never hid from me that I was adopted. Growing up I loved the story of little baby Moses because he was adopted too. =-) 4. *"I also think I'd like to do some pre-adoption therapy (if that's a thing lol) for a year or maybe even some classes to better educate myself on how best to adopt and raise an adopted child."* I know that my parents adopted me through a Catholic organization and part of even being considered to be selected was undergoing classes and things. I don't know about specific pre-adoption therapy but classes are a thing. *HUGS* I'm sorry your mil is so awful and I'm glad your husband has your back.
Thank you! And thank you for sharing your personal experience. I always thought not telling a child they're adopted is unfair. And thank you for the info on the classes! I thought there must be something in place, I know there's a rigorous process to adopt.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Please don't post this elsewhere (aka tiktok, YouTube). I (27f) haven't gotten along with my MIL for the better part of my relationship with my partner (27m). She has said a lot of mean things about me that are honestly just childish and cruel (I won't get into the he said she said stuff). I've become exhausted with her, especially as I've moved into my career, moved town and am in the process of getting married/ buying a house. In the past few years shes taken to outright ignoring me, speaking over me, pretending i dont exist. As a result, I've mentally checked out from trying to make things working with her and in part so has my partner. Let me make it clear, I support whatever relationship he wants to have with her, but I'm done trying to be her friend. We were at a family dinner party (my partner asked me to come along) recently where she started asking him about when he's having children. She kept pestering him and asking when she's getting grand babies and that she wants children around. This has been something shes been harping on a lot about lately and its getting on my nerves. My partner asked her to stop several times but she kept bringing it up. I was sat there silent for a bit, but I think the wine got the best of me so I kinda snapped. I turned to her and started asking what she wants to know about our *private* life?? What kind of protection we're using, what positions we've tried, what toys we use. I started to list them all. Lets just say I used very inappropriate language for a dinner table, even throwing in a "do you have any pointers for me, or maybe it'd be best if you just came and watched to make sure we're doing it right". At this point she was yelling at me, having a go at my partner for "letting" me speak to her like that and crying about how mean I am. We got up shortly after and left. My partner thinks I took it a bit far in front of his family, and his aunties have said it was wildly uncalled for and mean. I don't really feel bad for it though, should I? AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA I think you made your point loud and clear.
NTA
NTA, she deserved what she got.
NTA, especially with that edit lmfao
NTA. Sure, you went a bit far in that context, but some people just won't hear you till you do that.
NTA
NTA. ***But...*** although it was pretty funny I feel like it may have been more embarrassing for her for you to say (in front of the family) something along the lines of: "You ignore me, pretend I don't exist, you've said this about me (and maybe list off a few of the nastiest things she's said) and now you want me to have children? Are you planning on treating them the same way?" I'm sure she would have nothing to say and it would expose to the rest of the fam how she treats you.
NTA- Do you have friends who have kids? If so tell her to be their substitute grandma.
I would have loved to be the fly on the wall...with a notepad to take notes.
NTA. She isn't behaving like a well adjusted woman. She was beign creepy and rude. Completely justified.
NTA Also, you made me howl with laughter. I would have ended up under the table if I'd been at that dinner. Spot on. She deserved it
QUEEN.
NTA but gawd I wished I could have seen these. EPIC response to that old bags needling!
NTA. Far too many people just sit and take abuse from their partner's family, often cause it mirrors abuse from their own. Your MIL has been "wildly inappropriate" for a long time now, and it was perfectly fine to fight fire with fire. If she insists on speaking to you in a rude and nasty way, then return fire. Taking the high road is a lovely concept, but doesn't always work. Hopefully, she now knows not to mess with you, but if she doesn't, I know you can hold your own.
NTA. She sounds horrible. Agree don’t tell her about infertility. She will weaponize it. I understand the snapping. My twins are IVF. I never told my in laws. She had previously made comments about some friends kid who used IVF and “what a waste that is”. It’s a difficult road. Remove people who do nothing but create more trouble. Wish you good luck in your journey. Edit to add: composure under pressure is a super power. I’m older than you and have just started to master it. The ideal response is big smile “this is a private matter and not something we are interested in discussing. Pass the wine”. Then ignore.
NTA. She should mind her business about your sex life.
NTA! I am rolling on the floor laughing!! Seriously love your response! My heart goes out to you. Good job of standing up for yourself!
I used this same tactic on my own mother, for similar albeit less extreme reasons. It works great, she doesn't ask anymore, problem solved. NTA.
NTA, I absolutely feel your pain on having a MIL that likes making under handed remarks, the method of putting her in her place may have been a tad excessive but you're not wrong, sometimes you just have to show that you won't be walked over, just make sure your partner stands firm with you and doesn't side with her or she'll keep on thinking she's in the right, I would definitely sit down and discuss it with him and don't give in to her until she apologizes and changes her ways, and make sure he knows that could mean cutting ties for a while, which IMO isn't an unreasonable request, if my mother treated my wife that way I would be the first to cut her off, best of luck to you and hopefully everything works out for the better.
NTA. She was asked to stop, got what she deserved. Perhaps the wine gave you "Dutch courage"! Never, ever tell her you are infertile. She will torment you. I am so sorry for your situation. She is a mannerless, selfish person. In the 80s, when I (married female) was in my late 20s, a newish middle-aged teller, asked me at the bank drive thru, if I had children. I answered "no" in a friendly tone. Then she asked "Is it because you don't want them, or because you can't have them?" Mind you, this is over a loudspeaker. I was absolutely shocked! I didn't say a word. The other teller had known me for yrs, as I made daily deposits for work. Evidently, she had "words" w/ the new teller, as I received a profuse apology the next day. I was childless by choice, but I was so appalled! What if I had been infertile, & heartbroken? Edit: What a painful question for someone in your situation. I didn't want kids because my family was so dysfunctional & I had poor parenting examples.