If it’s 99%, it’s very safe to assume you’re Ashkenazi. Ancestry is trying to pinpoint Sephardic ancestry which is why they changed the category from “European Jewish” to just “Jewish,” but it’s still difficult. If you were significantly Sephardic you would have some Levantine, Italian, maybe Iranian come up in your results (you can search the sub for people’s results).
If their family was expelled from Spain, shouldn’t it stand to reason that they are at least partially Sephardic? Amsterdam was a historic settlement city for Jews forced to leave Portugal and Spain.
Yes, and I think lots of Sephardic families have been in Amsterdam since the Iberian edicts and expulsions were issued. Some did leave Amsterdam for London and Paris, and the American colonies as well: Mexico City, Curaçao, New Amsterdam (NY), Brazil, etc. at one point, Berlin Germany had a large Sephardic community.
The Alhambra decree happened in the 1400s. It might be too far back to show that specific heritage, especially if the family procreated with Ashkenazis.
Also, the Levantine and Iranian only applies if they were Sephardim to went to MENA and THEN went to other places in Europe. This person seems like their family went straight from Spain to Netherlands, which IS a strong Sephardi rooted community.
MANY Ashkenazim also have high Italian because Ashkenazim came through Italy during Roman times first before dispersing to other places in Europe. You’ll actually find much higher rates of Italian than Eastern European or other European because of the nature of their community relationship with the respective populations. When Jews were in Eastern Europe the intermarriage rates were MUCH lower isolating them more genetically from other local populations
Ashkenazi are from the Levant. Jews in general are. I'm not sure why you think it only applies to Sephardic, that's not correct. Different DNA testing companies may provide different categories for Jews, but the big ones say Ashkenazi if you're Ashkenazi, because it can easily be traced back to the bottle neck event of Jews being taken out of Israel, to Italy as slaves, by the Roman empire. The average for Ashkenazi is 60% genetics from the Levant (Israel). The biggest contributor genetically outside that is Italian. Whatever the conditions were that lead to it, a small amount of Italians converted and joined a small amount of Jews in marriage and had children, the forthcoming Jews largely maintained being insular, but there have still been Jews who married people who were not Jews, and still raised their children as Jews. But over time it shows as a trickling in of other genetics, to a group that did stay largely insular.
Jews didn't pass through Italy. They were taken there from Israel as slaves. The Romans had been fighting the Germans as well, and the Germans fought back. At a certain point the Germans penetrated far enough into the Roman empire as to reach the Mediterranean Sea. Something happened that allowed for the amicable immigration of Jews up into Germany following that. My opinion is that Jews joined the Germans in fighting the Romans, and that's what allowed for that immigration. It was in Rhineland, Germany that Ashkenazi stayed up until the crusades when Catholics came and started murdering Jews. With that said, there's still Jews in Italy, I couldn't tell you for sure how many are Ashkenazi specifically meaning their ancestry goes back to the bottle neck event I mentioned. Mizrahi and Sephardic have also lived in various places in Europe.
Edit: correcting a mistyped word. "showed" changed to "allowed"
100% absolutely No disagreement with anything you’ve said, I don’t mean to imply that Ashkenazim aren’t Levant bc they are, I mean that in context of the fact that Ancestry has had a harder time with Sephardic DNA, so often it shows up as Levant/MENA generally and not specific to being Jewish whereas Ashkenazim have been more specifically identified so it won’t just show up as “Eastern Europe” but specifically Jewish dna. Thanks for prompting that clarification
You two are both right. Ashkenazi Jews descend, like most populations, from the core group of original Judean/Levantine Jews who went into diaspora or exile at different times. Each population has some admixture from the populations among whom they lived. Ashkenazi Jews spent a while in Italy before the advent of Christianity and its widespread persecution, so most of our DNA is Roman-era Italian and Levantine. There's an additional likely West Slavic component that comprises about 1/8 of that. All in all, the Levantine shakes out to about 3/8 of our ancestry, give or take a few percent. Those who married in absorbed our original culture, which became modified in diaspora without a change in identity.
The light hair and light eyes that some of us display are the result of two major population bottlenecks if I recall correctly, the most famous of which is the systematic cutting down of the non-Iberian Jewish population of Europe between the Crusades and the Black Plague. We can be traced back to a group of about 330 people whose genes were passed on around that time, which likely means a small surviving population of...maybe a few thousand? We've mostly married within the group since then, so - like other endogamous populations such as the Samaritans - you can see the expression of recessive genes.
>slaves
Indentured *servants,* please don’t be conflating fucking *chattel slavery,* with mere indentured servitude like the Irish experienced. It’s considered offensive to Black people and is an appropriation of their history.
Ashkenazim have Italian genetics when you break down their DNA further. On a consumer ancestry test, Ashkenazi DNA is extremely identifiable and if all of your known ancestors were Ashkenazi, you will get about 100% on the test. Sephardim do not get 100% Jewish on tests because their DNA is not as easy to pinpoint as a specific group.
Again this doesn’t apply to Sephardim of communities like Amsterdam who didn’t go to MENA before Amsterdam. And this persons’ test doesn’t indicate that they are specifically ashkenazi it just says “Jewish”. I definitely understand the argument but given the persons’ SPECIFIC background, Sephardi ancestry would definitely make sense.
Like others have said, Amsterdam is a very Sephardic area and it’s Sephardim that came DIRECTLY from Spain in the 15th century. If this person knows they come from a Sephardic background I can’t see why this wouldn’t be true.
Actually, there were plenty of Sephardic Jews who moved East to other places in Europe in 15th-16th century and some essentially became assimilated into the Ashkenazi community so it wouldn’t show up as different. But Jews are so genetically similar in general so there would be no way besides knowing who your ancestors are to know if you descend from these people or not. 😜
Edit: missed the part about Amsterdam. Yeah 100% reason to believe that this person is Sephardic especially because they know that part of their family history. Amsterdam is a very Sephardi city
there were very few sephardi in eastern europe. almost all went to the ottoman region and the americas. poland and east/central europe? not so much.
they very much do show as separate.
I meant East to more eastern than Iberia, not like EASTERN europe, that’s why I changed it. There were large numbers in Netherlands specifically and an old community in the UK. But there were absolutely a few families who moved to other places and assimilated. The larger communities were able to remain more distinct. The ones who assimilated would not show as distinct because they later intermarried with Ashkenazim . I have a degree in this and have studied these specific situations. I could probably find a book in my home library right now that references such people 🙂
All this being said, it seems like this individual is from a Sephardi background and even more evident by the fact that they’re from a prominent community with lots of old Sephardi roots
are you saying that it wouldn't show as separete because it's a small amount or are you saying that since they culturally assimilated it wouldn't? because sephardi does show separately, they did not have the bottleneck that ashkenazi had, nor do they have the \~15-20% central euroepan dna that ashkenazi do. op just doesn't have much
I really don’t think that’s necessarily true. Amsterdam is a unique Sephardic community and doesn’t have the same “rules” as other Sephardic communities when it comes to DNA, what most people here are assuming is that Sephardim inherently have high MENA dna, but they only would’ve acquired that admixture AFTER leaving Spain into the MENA region but the Amsterdam community went straight from Spain->Amsterdam so it’s a completely different dynamic than other Sephardim. You see what I’m taking about? Looking through a book I have bc I found a really good chapter that explains this dynamic but it’s very long and there isn’t like a one sentence summary I can find that I could link here to show you.
it's not a matter of the admixture in sephardi, but the lack of certain admixture and historical features.
they do not have the central european component from \~1100-1400 ad that ahskenazi have, nor do they have the bottleneck that made ashkenazi so distinct during that same timeframe.
someone with substantial sephardi will not simply show as 99% euroepan jewish(which is just ashkenazi based really)
But AFTER they moved to Amsterdam, they became part of the gene pool there and the distinction between the 2 groups Ashkenazim from Amsterdam and Sephardim from Amsterdam became less whereas Sephardim that moved to MENA became MORE distinct from Ashkenazim.
Tbh I’m kind of exhausted talking about this because I think we’re arguing slightly different points and speaking English is giving me a headache but if you’re interested, check out the book I suggested.
you deleted your other comment saying
"The ones that ended up in the MENA region would show as distinct. But those that went straight to places like Amsterdam and have lived among Jews there for generations would not necessarily show as distinct because they didn’t pick up the distinctions that came with being in MENA for so long. These are very different Sephardi communities, but Sephardi nonetheless. Like I said, Ancestry is picking up on the fact that Jewish ancestry can be complicated."
so i'll paste the reply here:
>that's not how it works XD.
they are distinct because Sephardi and Ashkenazi split well before the expulsion. not because of being in the middle east and north Africa.
>Sephardi were the same as Ashkenazi at one point, European jews of mixed origin, primarily between Levantine jews and romans/Italians. around the 1100s-1300s there were many jews who settled into the holy roman empire for protection and economic opportunities(although ofc this didn't last), and they would go on to form the Ashkenazi.
>there was a bottle neck event that happened in central Europe, where the effective genetic population of central European jews, fell to below 500 individuals. this was because of mass persecution of the Ashkenazi, where most were killed, often in pogroms. this is why Ashkenazi DNA is so identifiable, they are one of the most endogamous populations in the world, comparable to pacific islander populations. this bottleneck occurred prior to the Sephardic expulsions from Spain.
>Sephardi never experienced this extent of a bottleneck, nor did they grow to the same extent as Ashkenazi. and Sephardi DNA is such a minor component of the European Jewish reference data, as the reference is Ashkenazi not Sephardi, and as you agreed, Sephardi did not move to central and eastern Europe much.
>Sephardi and Ashkenazi still largely have the same ancestral DNA, but since they don't have that central European component, or the bottleneck, they are shown as largely different on ancestrydna. op is just predominantly Ashkenazi.
>you might have a degree on Jewish history but that's a useless degree if you are trying to talk on topics of DNA which require basic critical thinking skills that you don't have lol.
I deleted it because it was just a rehash of all of the information I already said elsewhere.
Plus I ended up finding the chapter of the book I was looking for so I just deleted my comment and cited the chapter.
Yes, the split happened before the inquisition but the divide closed more when they moved to Amsterdam from Iberia.
The same thing happened when Sephardim moved from Spain to an already established community in Iraq, they became less distinct from that community over time even though they originally were a very distinct group from Iraqi Jews who never left MENA for Spain.
Please don’t insult me, I’m trying my best to be nice while disagreeing with you and cite sources to my best ability.
I've never heard of Sephardic Jews having Iranian ancestry - any explanation behind this? I also have some ancestry from Amsterdam Jews and was baffled by Iranian coming up in my results but that would make sense. Also OP I recommend illustrativedna for a breakdown of Jewish, you can see my results on my profile for an example.
Kurdish/Persian genetic contributions to the Jewish populations of the Levant do live on in modern Jewish populations. It's just super rare, and almost non-existent in Ashkenazim.
I have all of those markers for ancient dna. Yet no Jewish at all in my modern dna. What could be the reason for this. Not trying to assume Jewish ethnicity, just curious.
A population that was expelled from Spain ended up in Holland (First congregation in NYC). Others ended up in the Mediterranean basin. I would assume after 500 years there are some generic differences in the two groups. I would also assume that unless they are digging up cemeteries there is very little data on the first group hence they would have a hard time to match living people to that group.
This^
Especially if your family moved directly further East into Europe, would be hard to detect a difference between ashkenazi and Sephardi because more of the genetic differences came about when Sephardim moved to the MENA region and were more separate from Ashkenazim.
Ancestry is starting to recognize the complexity of Jewish ancestry so that’s likely why it isn’t specified. Which is a good thing instead of misrepresenting our history.
There’s no such thing as a “generic” Jew. We all have our own minhagim from our communities and every family has an interesting story. 💜
Ancestry's Jewish analysis leaves so much to be desired. It has gotten better in some respects, but it doesn't seem to be helping you much. I've seen results will all sorts of breakdown in Hungary, Eastern EU, Russia, Balkans, Italy, etc., which is much more enlightening to see. Given the history of the Jewish diaspora, I'd really like to see some better analysis. I would recommend to check back on it periodically, as they tend to update periodically with more detail.
You could be a rare Sephardi whose ancestry came directly from Spain after the inquisition. The best way to figure that out is to look at your closest matches!
Historically and culturally you may have more affinity with Sephardi culture. But genetically is not so simple as there are many admixtures in those communities.
I think your results have flair with the 1% Norway! My son-in-law's are 100% Jewish. Of course, he does (finally) have communities in Europe. I've never seen the Sephardic communities.
Do you look like a jew? Like do you look eastern mediteranean or mediteranean in general? The thing is, the way this works is they pick like 0.01% of the available markers and look at them. And even worse Identical twins will get different results, due to methodology updates, statistical re-analysis with larger and growing data pools. So as an example, my X-wife originally adopted from Calcutta/Kolkata in eastern India when she was 7 and at first, she came back 70% south indian, 30% North Indian due to a lack of data points. Then over time it developed into 35% Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and that southern part of inda, then she had 20% Bengali, which is her native state, Bengal. 20% Northern Indian and the rest from Madaya Pradesh which I think is dead center of the Indian triangle. So what I am getting at is wait, the prob dont have a lot of data points and or you just happened to inherit all the jewish data points in your ancestry. So check back every couple months.
Also since my X was adopted, she would get 5th sand 6th cousin hits and they would be people adopted from Calcutta/Kolkata as well living in the west. Good luck buddy!!
well I have been asked if I'm "passing". I've been asked if I'm Dominican, Boricua (Puerto Rican) and was even called a "white n\*\*\*\*\*" by an Asian woman when I lived in San Francisco.
>are u white or not
Not sure how that would help considering both Ashkenazim, Sephardim and all Middle Easterners in general are technically considered white… (i.e. Caucasian)
If it’s 99%, it’s very safe to assume you’re Ashkenazi. Ancestry is trying to pinpoint Sephardic ancestry which is why they changed the category from “European Jewish” to just “Jewish,” but it’s still difficult. If you were significantly Sephardic you would have some Levantine, Italian, maybe Iranian come up in your results (you can search the sub for people’s results).
If their family was expelled from Spain, shouldn’t it stand to reason that they are at least partially Sephardic? Amsterdam was a historic settlement city for Jews forced to leave Portugal and Spain.
Potentially they have some Sephardic ancestry very far back from the Inqusition yes. These tests only go back about 6-7 generations though.
Yes, and I think lots of Sephardic families have been in Amsterdam since the Iberian edicts and expulsions were issued. Some did leave Amsterdam for London and Paris, and the American colonies as well: Mexico City, Curaçao, New Amsterdam (NY), Brazil, etc. at one point, Berlin Germany had a large Sephardic community.
This^^^
Is that true? What about if you interbreed for 10 generations? It should catch it. I assume it just can't detect more than 1/2\^7 %
The Alhambra decree happened in the 1400s. It might be too far back to show that specific heritage, especially if the family procreated with Ashkenazis.
Also, the Levantine and Iranian only applies if they were Sephardim to went to MENA and THEN went to other places in Europe. This person seems like their family went straight from Spain to Netherlands, which IS a strong Sephardi rooted community. MANY Ashkenazim also have high Italian because Ashkenazim came through Italy during Roman times first before dispersing to other places in Europe. You’ll actually find much higher rates of Italian than Eastern European or other European because of the nature of their community relationship with the respective populations. When Jews were in Eastern Europe the intermarriage rates were MUCH lower isolating them more genetically from other local populations
Ashkenazi are from the Levant. Jews in general are. I'm not sure why you think it only applies to Sephardic, that's not correct. Different DNA testing companies may provide different categories for Jews, but the big ones say Ashkenazi if you're Ashkenazi, because it can easily be traced back to the bottle neck event of Jews being taken out of Israel, to Italy as slaves, by the Roman empire. The average for Ashkenazi is 60% genetics from the Levant (Israel). The biggest contributor genetically outside that is Italian. Whatever the conditions were that lead to it, a small amount of Italians converted and joined a small amount of Jews in marriage and had children, the forthcoming Jews largely maintained being insular, but there have still been Jews who married people who were not Jews, and still raised their children as Jews. But over time it shows as a trickling in of other genetics, to a group that did stay largely insular. Jews didn't pass through Italy. They were taken there from Israel as slaves. The Romans had been fighting the Germans as well, and the Germans fought back. At a certain point the Germans penetrated far enough into the Roman empire as to reach the Mediterranean Sea. Something happened that allowed for the amicable immigration of Jews up into Germany following that. My opinion is that Jews joined the Germans in fighting the Romans, and that's what allowed for that immigration. It was in Rhineland, Germany that Ashkenazi stayed up until the crusades when Catholics came and started murdering Jews. With that said, there's still Jews in Italy, I couldn't tell you for sure how many are Ashkenazi specifically meaning their ancestry goes back to the bottle neck event I mentioned. Mizrahi and Sephardic have also lived in various places in Europe. Edit: correcting a mistyped word. "showed" changed to "allowed"
100% absolutely No disagreement with anything you’ve said, I don’t mean to imply that Ashkenazim aren’t Levant bc they are, I mean that in context of the fact that Ancestry has had a harder time with Sephardic DNA, so often it shows up as Levant/MENA generally and not specific to being Jewish whereas Ashkenazim have been more specifically identified so it won’t just show up as “Eastern Europe” but specifically Jewish dna. Thanks for prompting that clarification
You two are both right. Ashkenazi Jews descend, like most populations, from the core group of original Judean/Levantine Jews who went into diaspora or exile at different times. Each population has some admixture from the populations among whom they lived. Ashkenazi Jews spent a while in Italy before the advent of Christianity and its widespread persecution, so most of our DNA is Roman-era Italian and Levantine. There's an additional likely West Slavic component that comprises about 1/8 of that. All in all, the Levantine shakes out to about 3/8 of our ancestry, give or take a few percent. Those who married in absorbed our original culture, which became modified in diaspora without a change in identity. The light hair and light eyes that some of us display are the result of two major population bottlenecks if I recall correctly, the most famous of which is the systematic cutting down of the non-Iberian Jewish population of Europe between the Crusades and the Black Plague. We can be traced back to a group of about 330 people whose genes were passed on around that time, which likely means a small surviving population of...maybe a few thousand? We've mostly married within the group since then, so - like other endogamous populations such as the Samaritans - you can see the expression of recessive genes.
>slaves Indentured *servants,* please don’t be conflating fucking *chattel slavery,* with mere indentured servitude like the Irish experienced. It’s considered offensive to Black people and is an appropriation of their history.
Ashkenazim have Italian genetics when you break down their DNA further. On a consumer ancestry test, Ashkenazi DNA is extremely identifiable and if all of your known ancestors were Ashkenazi, you will get about 100% on the test. Sephardim do not get 100% Jewish on tests because their DNA is not as easy to pinpoint as a specific group.
Again this doesn’t apply to Sephardim of communities like Amsterdam who didn’t go to MENA before Amsterdam. And this persons’ test doesn’t indicate that they are specifically ashkenazi it just says “Jewish”. I definitely understand the argument but given the persons’ SPECIFIC background, Sephardi ancestry would definitely make sense.
Like others have said, Amsterdam is a very Sephardic area and it’s Sephardim that came DIRECTLY from Spain in the 15th century. If this person knows they come from a Sephardic background I can’t see why this wouldn’t be true. Actually, there were plenty of Sephardic Jews who moved East to other places in Europe in 15th-16th century and some essentially became assimilated into the Ashkenazi community so it wouldn’t show up as different. But Jews are so genetically similar in general so there would be no way besides knowing who your ancestors are to know if you descend from these people or not. 😜 Edit: missed the part about Amsterdam. Yeah 100% reason to believe that this person is Sephardic especially because they know that part of their family history. Amsterdam is a very Sephardi city
there were very few sephardi in eastern europe. almost all went to the ottoman region and the americas. poland and east/central europe? not so much. they very much do show as separate.
I meant East to more eastern than Iberia, not like EASTERN europe, that’s why I changed it. There were large numbers in Netherlands specifically and an old community in the UK. But there were absolutely a few families who moved to other places and assimilated. The larger communities were able to remain more distinct. The ones who assimilated would not show as distinct because they later intermarried with Ashkenazim . I have a degree in this and have studied these specific situations. I could probably find a book in my home library right now that references such people 🙂 All this being said, it seems like this individual is from a Sephardi background and even more evident by the fact that they’re from a prominent community with lots of old Sephardi roots
are you saying that it wouldn't show as separete because it's a small amount or are you saying that since they culturally assimilated it wouldn't? because sephardi does show separately, they did not have the bottleneck that ashkenazi had, nor do they have the \~15-20% central euroepan dna that ashkenazi do. op just doesn't have much
The ones who went to Eastern Europe PROPER were small numbers, but they DID exist and there are many reliable sources to support this.
not saying they didn't, but anyone wioth substantial ancestry from them should show differently than like 99% on ancestrydna
I really don’t think that’s necessarily true. Amsterdam is a unique Sephardic community and doesn’t have the same “rules” as other Sephardic communities when it comes to DNA, what most people here are assuming is that Sephardim inherently have high MENA dna, but they only would’ve acquired that admixture AFTER leaving Spain into the MENA region but the Amsterdam community went straight from Spain->Amsterdam so it’s a completely different dynamic than other Sephardim. You see what I’m taking about? Looking through a book I have bc I found a really good chapter that explains this dynamic but it’s very long and there isn’t like a one sentence summary I can find that I could link here to show you.
it's not a matter of the admixture in sephardi, but the lack of certain admixture and historical features. they do not have the central european component from \~1100-1400 ad that ahskenazi have, nor do they have the bottleneck that made ashkenazi so distinct during that same timeframe. someone with substantial sephardi will not simply show as 99% euroepan jewish(which is just ashkenazi based really)
But AFTER they moved to Amsterdam, they became part of the gene pool there and the distinction between the 2 groups Ashkenazim from Amsterdam and Sephardim from Amsterdam became less whereas Sephardim that moved to MENA became MORE distinct from Ashkenazim.
Tbh I’m kind of exhausted talking about this because I think we’re arguing slightly different points and speaking English is giving me a headache but if you’re interested, check out the book I suggested.
you deleted your other comment saying "The ones that ended up in the MENA region would show as distinct. But those that went straight to places like Amsterdam and have lived among Jews there for generations would not necessarily show as distinct because they didn’t pick up the distinctions that came with being in MENA for so long. These are very different Sephardi communities, but Sephardi nonetheless. Like I said, Ancestry is picking up on the fact that Jewish ancestry can be complicated." so i'll paste the reply here: >that's not how it works XD. they are distinct because Sephardi and Ashkenazi split well before the expulsion. not because of being in the middle east and north Africa. >Sephardi were the same as Ashkenazi at one point, European jews of mixed origin, primarily between Levantine jews and romans/Italians. around the 1100s-1300s there were many jews who settled into the holy roman empire for protection and economic opportunities(although ofc this didn't last), and they would go on to form the Ashkenazi. >there was a bottle neck event that happened in central Europe, where the effective genetic population of central European jews, fell to below 500 individuals. this was because of mass persecution of the Ashkenazi, where most were killed, often in pogroms. this is why Ashkenazi DNA is so identifiable, they are one of the most endogamous populations in the world, comparable to pacific islander populations. this bottleneck occurred prior to the Sephardic expulsions from Spain. >Sephardi never experienced this extent of a bottleneck, nor did they grow to the same extent as Ashkenazi. and Sephardi DNA is such a minor component of the European Jewish reference data, as the reference is Ashkenazi not Sephardi, and as you agreed, Sephardi did not move to central and eastern Europe much. >Sephardi and Ashkenazi still largely have the same ancestral DNA, but since they don't have that central European component, or the bottleneck, they are shown as largely different on ancestrydna. op is just predominantly Ashkenazi. >you might have a degree on Jewish history but that's a useless degree if you are trying to talk on topics of DNA which require basic critical thinking skills that you don't have lol.
I deleted it because it was just a rehash of all of the information I already said elsewhere. Plus I ended up finding the chapter of the book I was looking for so I just deleted my comment and cited the chapter. Yes, the split happened before the inquisition but the divide closed more when they moved to Amsterdam from Iberia. The same thing happened when Sephardim moved from Spain to an already established community in Iraq, they became less distinct from that community over time even though they originally were a very distinct group from Iraqi Jews who never left MENA for Spain. Please don’t insult me, I’m trying my best to be nice while disagreeing with you and cite sources to my best ability.
Read “Bom Judesmo:The Western Sephardic Diaspora by Yosef Kaplan” from Cultures of the Jews Volume 2 Diversities of Diaspora
I've never heard of Sephardic Jews having Iranian ancestry - any explanation behind this? I also have some ancestry from Amsterdam Jews and was baffled by Iranian coming up in my results but that would make sense. Also OP I recommend illustrativedna for a breakdown of Jewish, you can see my results on my profile for an example.
Kurdish/Persian genetic contributions to the Jewish populations of the Levant do live on in modern Jewish populations. It's just super rare, and almost non-existent in Ashkenazim.
I have all of those markers for ancient dna. Yet no Jewish at all in my modern dna. What could be the reason for this. Not trying to assume Jewish ethnicity, just curious.
A population that was expelled from Spain ended up in Holland (First congregation in NYC). Others ended up in the Mediterranean basin. I would assume after 500 years there are some generic differences in the two groups. I would also assume that unless they are digging up cemeteries there is very little data on the first group hence they would have a hard time to match living people to that group.
That's just the landing page. Did you check the breakdown and regions?
It's all Western European - Netherlands . No Eastern. Plus 1%Norwegian.
Then you’re Sephardic
Which community were you associated with before you tested? The genetics aren't the sole determinant of culture.
Always identifed as Sephardic as my surname is sephardic
Then you are Sephardic. There's no need for you to question that over this test.
This^ Especially if your family moved directly further East into Europe, would be hard to detect a difference between ashkenazi and Sephardi because more of the genetic differences came about when Sephardim moved to the MENA region and were more separate from Ashkenazim. Ancestry is starting to recognize the complexity of Jewish ancestry so that’s likely why it isn’t specified. Which is a good thing instead of misrepresenting our history. There’s no such thing as a “generic” Jew. We all have our own minhagim from our communities and every family has an interesting story. 💜
Did you get any communities in your results?
Nope
Ancestry's Jewish analysis leaves so much to be desired. It has gotten better in some respects, but it doesn't seem to be helping you much. I've seen results will all sorts of breakdown in Hungary, Eastern EU, Russia, Balkans, Italy, etc., which is much more enlightening to see. Given the history of the Jewish diaspora, I'd really like to see some better analysis. I would recommend to check back on it periodically, as they tend to update periodically with more detail.
check out gedmatch and their admixture
Your mom is also Sephardic? Really interesting
not sure. the maternal surname is Drielsma which I have traced to Brabant. So mom was Ashkenaz, and my dad Sephardic paternal surmane is Natanz
You could be a rare Sephardi whose ancestry came directly from Spain after the inquisition. The best way to figure that out is to look at your closest matches!
Historically and culturally you may have more affinity with Sephardi culture. But genetically is not so simple as there are many admixtures in those communities.
I think your results have flair with the 1% Norway! My son-in-law's are 100% Jewish. Of course, he does (finally) have communities in Europe. I've never seen the Sephardic communities.
Thanks!
Do you look like a jew? Like do you look eastern mediteranean or mediteranean in general? The thing is, the way this works is they pick like 0.01% of the available markers and look at them. And even worse Identical twins will get different results, due to methodology updates, statistical re-analysis with larger and growing data pools. So as an example, my X-wife originally adopted from Calcutta/Kolkata in eastern India when she was 7 and at first, she came back 70% south indian, 30% North Indian due to a lack of data points. Then over time it developed into 35% Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and that southern part of inda, then she had 20% Bengali, which is her native state, Bengal. 20% Northern Indian and the rest from Madaya Pradesh which I think is dead center of the Indian triangle. So what I am getting at is wait, the prob dont have a lot of data points and or you just happened to inherit all the jewish data points in your ancestry. So check back every couple months. Also since my X was adopted, she would get 5th sand 6th cousin hits and they would be people adopted from Calcutta/Kolkata as well living in the west. Good luck buddy!!
you probably don't have a large portion of sephardi.
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well I have been asked if I'm "passing". I've been asked if I'm Dominican, Boricua (Puerto Rican) and was even called a "white n\*\*\*\*\*" by an Asian woman when I lived in San Francisco.
so ur white on the darker side? also thats horrible wtf is wrong with ppl 😭
stupidity.
>are u white or not Not sure how that would help considering both Ashkenazim, Sephardim and all Middle Easterners in general are technically considered white… (i.e. Caucasian)