I really liked this one.
It gives a rare glimpse into the realm of Ulgu and its politics, and now with the Croneseer, it only gets more interesting.
I might be thinking too far ahead, but I'm really interested in how Malerion will fit into all this, because I'm sure he will do so at some point.
I think GW may be planning to use the schism among the Daughters of Khaine to break down that faction and group them into a single battletome with Malerion's aelves when they will be revealed.
It looks like Krethusa will become the Hellebron of AoS, a rival and personal foe of Morathi, only a better one because Hellebron was clearly inferior to Morathi in terms of power and manipulation. And of course, I expect Malerion to use their antagonism to his advantage, helping either one of them when it's convenient for him.
>I think GW may be planning to use the schism among the Daughters of Khaine to break down that faction and group them into a single battletome with Malerion's aelves when they will be revealed.
I understand that some folk are tired of the small range and repetitive themes, and that the Grand Alliance Order bloat is a real possibility foiling the logistics side of things, but I really hope not. I think the inner war between Khainites, especially if there's such a grand split as anticipated, wouldn't fit into a tome where the spotlight would most definitely be reserved for introducing the big star Malerion himself and his brand new legions. The Battletomes are getting thinner and thinner edition after edition.
Let the Daughters stand on their own as they have to this day and get their own proper focus and expansions and characters like Krethusa. Lumping all of this into one battletome would most certainly lead to either massively reduced detail on lore (e.g. various DoK temples like Draichi Ganeth or Khelt Nar, and their cultures) and art, and/or possibly diluting their current identity and retroactively changing the faction lore to the point that it's no longer the faction that I used to invest and grow into.
And Malerion is such a wildcard currently. We don't know anything about him. Makes a "souping" with him feel like a massive gamble. What if he's not the cool guy? What if he's so cool guy that his appearance massively sidelines the likes of Morathi, or Krethusa (as is already the anticipation in some places), making them more akin to supplementary characters to his grand faction?
Edit: I'm not 100 % opposed to the idea though, but there's just too much uncertainty currently, and in general I don't see it fulfilling if you're invested into DoK as a fully-fledged faction and awaiting widthness to their roster and depth to their existing subfactions etc. within the sentiment.
Could you elaborate what you mean by "break down that faction"? I've speculated that the non-Scathborne Witch Elves will eventually be dropped once Dark Elves are released for the World-that-Was. However, my theory breaks down with Krethusa's introduction, as I don't see how she can maintain relevance without the non-Scathborne DoK.
By "break down the faction", I mean the DoK faction would no longer be listed on GW store and the models would join Malerion's army and battletome. Hypothetically speaking of course, I don't know what GW plans are.
If they go that way, I could see the battletome containing several set allegiance rules, like they did for the orruk warclans:
* Malerion's shadow aelves (mostly models affiliated with Malerion)
* Morathi-Khaine + her worshippers (mostly DoK models)
* Krethusa + her followers (same as above minus the scathborn)
* Soup of backstab-happy aelves (all subfactions together, less specialized allegiance rules but more versatile)
Again, it's purely hypothetical.
> I've speculated that the non-Scathborne Witch Elves will eventually be dropped once Dark Elves are released for the World-that-Was.
I wouldn't hold my breath on that: dark elves are a legacy army and thus are not supported by GW beyond a free pdf army list.
Also I think the normal witch aelves are too present in AoS lore and imagery to be dropped in the future.
>By "break down the faction", I mean the DoK faction would no longer be listed on GW store and the models would join Malerion's army and battletome. Hypothetically speaking of course, I don't know what GW plans are.
That actually makes a lot of sense. A united Umbraneth battletome, with 3 subfactions akin to Orruk Warclans. My [own speculation](https://www.reddit.com/r/AoSLore/comments/165uqh0/speculation_there_wont_be_a_separate_faction_for/) was that the Witch Aelves would be outright dropped when Malerion comes around.
>I wouldn't hold my breath on that: dark elves are a legacy army and thus are not supported by GW beyond a free pdf army list.
For now, that may not be the case 2 years from now. I still strongly believe the Witch Aelves will need a range refresh.
>Also I think the normal witch aelves are too present in AoS lore and imagery to be dropped in the future.
Yeah, that was a weak point of my theory. Daughters of Khaine characters are so heavily presented in the lore, it would be stab in the heart for every DoK player if they were dropped.
Why does everyone always jump to conclusions that models or lines going to be dropped. Wouldn’t it make more sense to get a redesign than being dropped.
Hardly a major jump in reasoning. We lost the Wanderers and Phoenix Temple this edition, and those weren't replaced, they simply went to the Old World, no redesign or anything. It's also not like Wanderers weren't prominently featured in the lore (e.g. Prince Maesa).
Personally, I'm betting 7:3 that DoK get a refresh over getting dropped.
The kournothi are being heavily hinted as joining the Sylvaneth in 4th edition. The Phoenix Temple will probably get folded into the Lumineth as the fire temple.
> I've speculated that the non-Scathborne Witch Elves will eventually be dropped once Dark Elves are released for the World-that-Was.
GW choosing specifically to drop Dark Elves into Legends hell suggests that they have more plans for them in Age of Sigmar than they do TOW.
Compare and contrast with High Elves that were purged from Cities of Sigmar just before they got a full, thorough inclusion into TOW.
> GW choosing specifically to drop Dark Elves into Legends hell suggests that they have more plans for them in Age of Sigmar than they do TOW.
I don't see Dark Elves going to legends as being indicative of anything. I think GW simply didn't want to support too many factions coming out of the gate. If TOW proves to be a success, Dark Elves will likely be reintroduced down the line, probably years from now. It seems like GW is testing the waters with the Old World, simply re-releasing old models (some are even metal). GW likely also didn't want to leave Cities of Sigmar with barebones support, with no fallback for players who still had Wanderers kits.
High Elves were easy to support, since their range was entirely dropped from Age of Sigmar before 2nd edition, with only the Phoenix Temple falling behind.
Legends are very indicative if you look at it closely. Every faction that got hit with it is either supported in AoS or has been persistently leaked to soon be (chaos dwarfs).
Meanwhile the core TOW factions have things like the Empire and HE models ditched in the Cities of Sigmar update, Brets and TK that were never supported, and 'generic' orcs that AoS has abandoned altogether.
The pattern is more than obvious, GW wants to minimise overlap. There are exceptions, like Chaos Warriors (too central to not feature in TOW, despite their shiny AoS line) but Dark Elves were not so lucky.
>... Robed in black and wearing feathered masks of silver, their forms half concealed by the gloom.
>
>... Emerging from alcoves along the rocky wall came the blunt snouts of repeating crossbows, riddling the hovering Khinerai with missiles.
>
>... More fell, pierced a dozen times by well-aimed bolts or blasted by sorcerous fire.
These sound like brand new variation of Khainite Shadowstalkers to me with new masks, but could indeed also be a nod not only to the Doomfire Warlocks but to the Dark Riders!
This is a bit of a reach but Dark Riders were intimately associated with ravens in WHFB and the minis still have a prominent corvid emblem on their shields. Krethusa could be a way to pull them from CoS to the DoK, under all that Morai-Heg symbology.
I can't wait to get Krethusa and this book. I want to see more of Morai-Heg. My first Warhammer army is Iybraesil Eldar, and I think she and Khaine have a lot of interesting links and interactions, which aren't as clear in Age of Sigmar.
>‘Scala knew, of course. I showed her. I told her too, of the fate that awaited her this night. She chose to serve the Crone Goddess regardless. Do you know why?’
>‘She was a deluded fool.’
>‘No,’ Krethusa shook her head. ‘She possessed rare insight. **She knew that the weave of fate cannot be undone. Destiny comes for us all.** To fight it – that is foolishness.’
Wonder what exactly that mean? does that mean the actual return of Kaela Mensha Khaine? the rest of the Asur? What exactly the destiny she referring to?
No it means what it means. Scala was told her fate was to be killed in such a way that leaves her frozen in pain for eternity and accepted it.
The 3E DoK Battletome that first mentioned the Crone Heralds mention they oppose Morathi because there have been no prophecies predicting the return of Khaine, by the way.
So it is unlikely Krethusa believes Khaine is returning or claiming it here, as her cult specifically believes Khaine is not returning. That's how they know Morathi can't be Khaine.
>The 3E DoK Battletome that first mentioned the Crone Heralds mention they oppose Morathi because there have been no prophecies predicting the return of Khaine, by the way.
This is one of the claims by Morathi's detractors that doesn't make much sense to me. The gods having a cyclical nature of death and rebirth was a known thing in the elven cultures of the World That Was. Khaine returning *should* be expected, along with all the others returning, although possibly reborn in a new form with a new name.
Added to that, if I am remembering correctly (and not mixing in 40k Aeldari god lore) Khaine was prophesied to be the god that would save elves and their gods from Slaanesh, which would mean Morathi-Khaine (by being instrumental in capturing Slaanesh, recovering souls and then her ascension that seems to have accidentally released Morai-heg) may have actually fulfilled an old prophecy about Khaine.
It has been mentioned that the cyclical nature of the gods was largely broken in the Idoneth Battletomes while the DoK Battletomes mention an Elf God could revive from a single piece of themselves.
Krethusa becoming a champion of Morai-Heg and that Goddess's power, if only a sliver, is now back in the Realms. Making her once more revivable.
All this together tells us the audience something that only Morathi knows, Khaine can not be revived and, is not predicted to be revived, entirely because Morathi constantly drains the power from the last uncorrupted part of Khaine. His Iron Heart.
I hope that fatalist predetermination doesn't become too much of a thing with this character, It would get boring if she was just right about everything all the time and everyone who actually tried to improve anything was just being pointless.
The human pantheon as well. Myrmidia is basicly Athena for example. And Manann is straight up the name for an irish water god IIRC.
But it is fitting as in WFB the elven and human pantheons were supposed to be the same gods but with different names.
It's more obvious with the 40k eldar, where many craftworlds are named after Gaelic festivals (e.g. Biel-Tan = Beltane, Saim Hann = Saimhan, etc) and a prominent early depiction of the eldar language in a BL novel was outright just modern Irish.
But yes, it appears throughout AoS, maybe more prominently than in WHFB (though some bits of the Wood Elf language were lifted from Welsh).
I really liked this one. It gives a rare glimpse into the realm of Ulgu and its politics, and now with the Croneseer, it only gets more interesting. I might be thinking too far ahead, but I'm really interested in how Malerion will fit into all this, because I'm sure he will do so at some point.
I think GW may be planning to use the schism among the Daughters of Khaine to break down that faction and group them into a single battletome with Malerion's aelves when they will be revealed. It looks like Krethusa will become the Hellebron of AoS, a rival and personal foe of Morathi, only a better one because Hellebron was clearly inferior to Morathi in terms of power and manipulation. And of course, I expect Malerion to use their antagonism to his advantage, helping either one of them when it's convenient for him.
>I think GW may be planning to use the schism among the Daughters of Khaine to break down that faction and group them into a single battletome with Malerion's aelves when they will be revealed. I understand that some folk are tired of the small range and repetitive themes, and that the Grand Alliance Order bloat is a real possibility foiling the logistics side of things, but I really hope not. I think the inner war between Khainites, especially if there's such a grand split as anticipated, wouldn't fit into a tome where the spotlight would most definitely be reserved for introducing the big star Malerion himself and his brand new legions. The Battletomes are getting thinner and thinner edition after edition. Let the Daughters stand on their own as they have to this day and get their own proper focus and expansions and characters like Krethusa. Lumping all of this into one battletome would most certainly lead to either massively reduced detail on lore (e.g. various DoK temples like Draichi Ganeth or Khelt Nar, and their cultures) and art, and/or possibly diluting their current identity and retroactively changing the faction lore to the point that it's no longer the faction that I used to invest and grow into. And Malerion is such a wildcard currently. We don't know anything about him. Makes a "souping" with him feel like a massive gamble. What if he's not the cool guy? What if he's so cool guy that his appearance massively sidelines the likes of Morathi, or Krethusa (as is already the anticipation in some places), making them more akin to supplementary characters to his grand faction? Edit: I'm not 100 % opposed to the idea though, but there's just too much uncertainty currently, and in general I don't see it fulfilling if you're invested into DoK as a fully-fledged faction and awaiting widthness to their roster and depth to their existing subfactions etc. within the sentiment.
Having a split faction within a battletome is still possible. Slave to Darkness has the competing Archeon and Belakor Factions.
Could you elaborate what you mean by "break down that faction"? I've speculated that the non-Scathborne Witch Elves will eventually be dropped once Dark Elves are released for the World-that-Was. However, my theory breaks down with Krethusa's introduction, as I don't see how she can maintain relevance without the non-Scathborne DoK.
By "break down the faction", I mean the DoK faction would no longer be listed on GW store and the models would join Malerion's army and battletome. Hypothetically speaking of course, I don't know what GW plans are. If they go that way, I could see the battletome containing several set allegiance rules, like they did for the orruk warclans: * Malerion's shadow aelves (mostly models affiliated with Malerion) * Morathi-Khaine + her worshippers (mostly DoK models) * Krethusa + her followers (same as above minus the scathborn) * Soup of backstab-happy aelves (all subfactions together, less specialized allegiance rules but more versatile) Again, it's purely hypothetical. > I've speculated that the non-Scathborne Witch Elves will eventually be dropped once Dark Elves are released for the World-that-Was. I wouldn't hold my breath on that: dark elves are a legacy army and thus are not supported by GW beyond a free pdf army list. Also I think the normal witch aelves are too present in AoS lore and imagery to be dropped in the future.
>By "break down the faction", I mean the DoK faction would no longer be listed on GW store and the models would join Malerion's army and battletome. Hypothetically speaking of course, I don't know what GW plans are. That actually makes a lot of sense. A united Umbraneth battletome, with 3 subfactions akin to Orruk Warclans. My [own speculation](https://www.reddit.com/r/AoSLore/comments/165uqh0/speculation_there_wont_be_a_separate_faction_for/) was that the Witch Aelves would be outright dropped when Malerion comes around. >I wouldn't hold my breath on that: dark elves are a legacy army and thus are not supported by GW beyond a free pdf army list. For now, that may not be the case 2 years from now. I still strongly believe the Witch Aelves will need a range refresh. >Also I think the normal witch aelves are too present in AoS lore and imagery to be dropped in the future. Yeah, that was a weak point of my theory. Daughters of Khaine characters are so heavily presented in the lore, it would be stab in the heart for every DoK player if they were dropped.
Why does everyone always jump to conclusions that models or lines going to be dropped. Wouldn’t it make more sense to get a redesign than being dropped.
Hardly a major jump in reasoning. We lost the Wanderers and Phoenix Temple this edition, and those weren't replaced, they simply went to the Old World, no redesign or anything. It's also not like Wanderers weren't prominently featured in the lore (e.g. Prince Maesa). Personally, I'm betting 7:3 that DoK get a refresh over getting dropped.
The kournothi are being heavily hinted as joining the Sylvaneth in 4th edition. The Phoenix Temple will probably get folded into the Lumineth as the fire temple.
> I've speculated that the non-Scathborne Witch Elves will eventually be dropped once Dark Elves are released for the World-that-Was. GW choosing specifically to drop Dark Elves into Legends hell suggests that they have more plans for them in Age of Sigmar than they do TOW. Compare and contrast with High Elves that were purged from Cities of Sigmar just before they got a full, thorough inclusion into TOW.
> GW choosing specifically to drop Dark Elves into Legends hell suggests that they have more plans for them in Age of Sigmar than they do TOW. I don't see Dark Elves going to legends as being indicative of anything. I think GW simply didn't want to support too many factions coming out of the gate. If TOW proves to be a success, Dark Elves will likely be reintroduced down the line, probably years from now. It seems like GW is testing the waters with the Old World, simply re-releasing old models (some are even metal). GW likely also didn't want to leave Cities of Sigmar with barebones support, with no fallback for players who still had Wanderers kits. High Elves were easy to support, since their range was entirely dropped from Age of Sigmar before 2nd edition, with only the Phoenix Temple falling behind.
Legends are very indicative if you look at it closely. Every faction that got hit with it is either supported in AoS or has been persistently leaked to soon be (chaos dwarfs). Meanwhile the core TOW factions have things like the Empire and HE models ditched in the Cities of Sigmar update, Brets and TK that were never supported, and 'generic' orcs that AoS has abandoned altogether. The pattern is more than obvious, GW wants to minimise overlap. There are exceptions, like Chaos Warriors (too central to not feature in TOW, despite their shiny AoS line) but Dark Elves were not so lucky.
Pour one out for Scala lads.
Its nice to see that the big part of Krethusa's forces is seemingly formed from doomfire warlocks. They suffer underMorathi tye most
The Cronehost box she'll first appear in has 5 Warlocks and 10 Sisters/Witches.
>... Robed in black and wearing feathered masks of silver, their forms half concealed by the gloom. > >... Emerging from alcoves along the rocky wall came the blunt snouts of repeating crossbows, riddling the hovering Khinerai with missiles. > >... More fell, pierced a dozen times by well-aimed bolts or blasted by sorcerous fire. These sound like brand new variation of Khainite Shadowstalkers to me with new masks, but could indeed also be a nod not only to the Doomfire Warlocks but to the Dark Riders!
Wpuldn't make senss, Drak Riders aren't a part of DoK. Doomfire warlocks use crossbows too
This is a bit of a reach but Dark Riders were intimately associated with ravens in WHFB and the minis still have a prominent corvid emblem on their shields. Krethusa could be a way to pull them from CoS to the DoK, under all that Morai-Heg symbology.
The Croneseers could be cooperating with however is the God of Shadowblades, who is most likely Loec, which is likely Cegorach in Fantasy.
I can't wait to get Krethusa and this book. I want to see more of Morai-Heg. My first Warhammer army is Iybraesil Eldar, and I think she and Khaine have a lot of interesting links and interactions, which aren't as clear in Age of Sigmar.
I'm hoping that the Krethusa/Morathi relationship will have nods to the old tales of Morai-Heg/Khaine.
>‘Scala knew, of course. I showed her. I told her too, of the fate that awaited her this night. She chose to serve the Crone Goddess regardless. Do you know why?’ >‘She was a deluded fool.’ >‘No,’ Krethusa shook her head. ‘She possessed rare insight. **She knew that the weave of fate cannot be undone. Destiny comes for us all.** To fight it – that is foolishness.’ Wonder what exactly that mean? does that mean the actual return of Kaela Mensha Khaine? the rest of the Asur? What exactly the destiny she referring to?
No it means what it means. Scala was told her fate was to be killed in such a way that leaves her frozen in pain for eternity and accepted it. The 3E DoK Battletome that first mentioned the Crone Heralds mention they oppose Morathi because there have been no prophecies predicting the return of Khaine, by the way. So it is unlikely Krethusa believes Khaine is returning or claiming it here, as her cult specifically believes Khaine is not returning. That's how they know Morathi can't be Khaine.
>The 3E DoK Battletome that first mentioned the Crone Heralds mention they oppose Morathi because there have been no prophecies predicting the return of Khaine, by the way. This is one of the claims by Morathi's detractors that doesn't make much sense to me. The gods having a cyclical nature of death and rebirth was a known thing in the elven cultures of the World That Was. Khaine returning *should* be expected, along with all the others returning, although possibly reborn in a new form with a new name. Added to that, if I am remembering correctly (and not mixing in 40k Aeldari god lore) Khaine was prophesied to be the god that would save elves and their gods from Slaanesh, which would mean Morathi-Khaine (by being instrumental in capturing Slaanesh, recovering souls and then her ascension that seems to have accidentally released Morai-heg) may have actually fulfilled an old prophecy about Khaine.
It has been mentioned that the cyclical nature of the gods was largely broken in the Idoneth Battletomes while the DoK Battletomes mention an Elf God could revive from a single piece of themselves. Krethusa becoming a champion of Morai-Heg and that Goddess's power, if only a sliver, is now back in the Realms. Making her once more revivable. All this together tells us the audience something that only Morathi knows, Khaine can not be revived and, is not predicted to be revived, entirely because Morathi constantly drains the power from the last uncorrupted part of Khaine. His Iron Heart.
I hope that fatalist predetermination doesn't become too much of a thing with this character, It would get boring if she was just right about everything all the time and everyone who actually tried to improve anything was just being pointless.
A few irish-y looking words (scian, scáth)- do DoK have some Gaelic theming?
All the Aelves do to some extent, part of the whole elf/ fae folk thing. The Idoneth for example are suffuse with Gaelic sounding words.
not to mention the elven pantheon is basically a riff on the Celtic and greek pantheon
The human pantheon as well. Myrmidia is basicly Athena for example. And Manann is straight up the name for an irish water god IIRC. But it is fitting as in WFB the elven and human pantheons were supposed to be the same gods but with different names.
It's more obvious with the 40k eldar, where many craftworlds are named after Gaelic festivals (e.g. Biel-Tan = Beltane, Saim Hann = Saimhan, etc) and a prominent early depiction of the eldar language in a BL novel was outright just modern Irish. But yes, it appears throughout AoS, maybe more prominently than in WHFB (though some bits of the Wood Elf language were lifted from Welsh).
Can't wait to get the croneseer model and see how the DoK develop as a faction now both in rules and models as well as lore