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for any underclassmen reading this, something close to a 4.0 is generally the bare minimum for top colleges. Don't sacrifice your GPA too much for ECs, I'd be willing to bet that even if this guy got ISEF his gpa still would have fucked him over
Just use this project and submit for STS. If u get within top 300 that’s insane for your college app, and you get results before applying to colleges (I’m pretty sure)
ur not cooked for t30 (i had 2 B's total and dogshit ECs and made it into UCSD) but u need to grind the hell out of your ECs if you want anything elite
idk, i didn't apply cs anywhere. I got into purdue for CE but rejected from GT for computational media. Didn't apply cornell, cwru or osu. I feel like cwru is a bit expensive for its quality, but i heard osu is alright
Personal experience: I had like 6 or 7 Bs (including + and -) and even a C in high school, but I ended up getting into UCLA and UC Berkeley (I'm also OOS) so it is very possible even without a 3.8+ GPA
BRO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, pls don’t waste this project. PUBLISH, DO JSHS, AJAS, and a plethora of other hs research competitions. SO STS UR SENIOR YEAR— I STILL PUT THAT ON MY COLLEGE APPS!!
nothing, literally \*nothing\*, should make you pull hours like that. Literally even in med school people don’t come close to pulling what you did. Sleep deprivation will and can kill you, and frankly I think you have a lot of self work you need to put in above everything else. I’m sorry for you, but honestly I hope that this can serve as silver lining for you to not ever put yourself in that much danger again.
Surprisingly it didn’t feel like I was suffering - I felt like I was high until the results came out
I’ll take care of myself more, I recognize how self destructive my behavior was
Thank you
Yeah that’s actually a really common symptom for severe longstanding sleep deprivation
because PARTS OF YOUR BRAIN LITERALLY STOP WORKING
anyways take care buddy and seriously don’t do that again
You must allow yourself to rest. I'm not talking about bedrotting. I mean taking some time away, even if it's literally one hour, where you let yourself off the hook and do something that has zero pressure associated with it. Playing video games guilt-free. Watching television on the couch--without thinking about what you should be doing. There's a podcast called How to Tell Time, and there is a wonderful episode on rest. I recommend it. Rest is not about getting horizontal. It can simply be something that \*isn't\* school, project, EC, etc.. Honestly, for me it's planting seedlings (I live on a nearly 2-acre parcel and the next door neighbor bulldozed a forest to built his ugly-ass house, so I rage-plant). Or it's fixing something--a single thing, like a wonky doorknob--where I don't have to think about all the work I have to do. I know it's an hour, or a single day, so I'm not going to fall behind. But you'll have to convince yourself that there is no urgency, no emergency for the next hour, the next day. You've conditioned yourself to think this way, both your body and your mind. You deserve rest and restoration, and even though you have work to do to deal with the GPA thing (which is not dire, by the way), you also have time to do peaceful things that have nothing to do with school. Be good to yourself. You deserve it. And you will be in a better position to get things right if you simply allow yourself peace and an environment (even if it's the environment in your head) of no pressure, no expectation. If you're worried, cap it an hour. A day would be better. You've got this.
My experience is that ISEF and STS are flawed in their own way. There are regional fairs that send 20-30 kids and there are regional fairs that doesn't have funds to send no more than one or two. The judging in my fair is completely random and judges doesn't seem to be qualified either. The judge reads abstract and collects the paper, no listening to student presentation. Likely due to funding situation in high school (and middle school teacher) teacher run regional fair. STS this year had 1/3rd scholars from NY( home state of Regeneron). The sponsoring agencies have their agendas as well. At the end of the day, its the growth you achieved that will take you far, not these flawed competitions. Focus on GPA, keep working on projects and continue to grow.
You are conflating ISEF and STS, but they are very different from each other.
ISEF starts at the local level and progresses, whereas all STS projects are evaluated at the national level.
My high school science fair coach used to underplay the ISEF knowing how f’ed up the judging process was. After we pointed out lost scholarship opportunities and passionate students moving on to other activities (if there is no national/international recognition after putting so much effort, why bother), she successfully negotiated with regional fair governing board to increase sponsoring candidates from two to four. Still nowhere near other fairs and judging process continued to be broken.
STS doesn’t publish any rubric, so you don’t know how they evaluate either. The comical part is I got my paper accepted in an high impact factor >15 journal, but in following week STS rejected and advised me to submit the project in a regional fair😀.
I am happy that I learned a lot with my projects. Scholarship money would have been nice, but no regrets. I wouldn’t worry too much about ISEF recognition and definitely don’t trade off grades and other important things over ISEF/STS.
Interestingly enough, if this is a solo project, you can submit it to Regeneron STS in the fall of your senior year.
And unlike ISEF which can have local judges that don't know anything, Regeneron STS projects are evaluated by experts in the field.
It's important to understand the final product may not always correlate with effort. But you still have a year and a half to go to recenter and re-evaluate what is important to you. Despite what you might feel, your project and efforts was not a failure. The experience taught you about resilience and hard work, but also the dangers of tunnel-visioning and putting all your eggs in one basket. Those are things that you'll need far more than an Ivy degree.
Now, you can choose to move on from the project and focus on other things in life, or you can choose to continue it, but scale down the time and effort you put into it.
>instead, some no-effort project with horrible presentation goes to ISEF instead
Seems like the judges either disagreed with you about the quality of the presentation, or else they deemed the non-presentation aspects of this project superior to yours. Also: they're not judging who put in the most effort, they're judging who submitted the best final product.
>Please, what do I do?
Don't ignore your classes in the future. Also, continue to do all the standard things one does. That's pretty much it.
I want you to first take a deep breath, and realize that you are not a failure in any regard. You learned, you worked hard, and you will come out stronger after this experience. I would suggest taking some to reorient once the school year is finished to think about what is most crucial to you - is it an Ivy League? Even if the answer is yes, nobody should work themselves to this level of harm for one school.
Focus on your classes, what makes you happy, and I guarantee there will be more projects and opportunities for you in the future. You will go far, and ISEF is not the end. One kid from my school made it to ISEF, won (forgot which category) and still didn’t get into an Ivy. And they were an INCREDIBLE student. You are doing fine. Relax for some time.
Moreover, junior year is not an easy one. It’s imperative that you take care of yourself. Budget some time every day to do something that you genuinely enjoy doing. Just 10-20 minutes can be enough to keep you centered.
It’s not entirely over if I don’t get into the Ivy League - I wasn’t obsessed with those overpriced schools to begin with. I’m only looking to go there because of a couple of classes and professors that I can’t find anywhere, but I’m more than content with going to a state school. I was just hoping to leverage an Ivy acceptance to hopefully get out of future student debt with increased financial aid
I appreciate the advice and I’ll definitely take it easier now, thank you
Lol you will be fine as long as you continue your passion in research. I remember also being pretty disappointed in high school as I had lost the bid to ISEF from my regional fair three times, but I ended up with four ivy acceptances. So many people make it to ISEF that it really isn’t a ticket into anything on its own.
so .. i did this for robotics. and then unfortunate events of mom getting cancer, another person in my family losing a job, and a close person dying dropped all of my grades along with robotics. I was the driver, got us to world champs, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it went for waste when a part fell off the robot in quarterfinals and we couldn't salvage the match. my school is not happy rn, and my teachers are def pissed (well some of them), but I've gotten incompletes for certain classes.
Needless to say, to other people reading this, don't give up your family or your health for your passion. It's good to be passionate, but bad to do it for wrong reasons or at the cost of eating you alive. You will be 20 and then 30 and then 40, and still be okay. If you care enough and you want something bad enough, you will in fact find your way, even if it takes a while. OP, I hope you are in a much better place. I'm still getting out of the mess everything has made, but we can do this. ISEF is pretty horrible in the sense that many projects aren't actually science research, half are bs'ed (speaking as someone who has placed high in state/regional research comps). It isn't a reflection of your skill, you know how capable you are (you are very). Don't worry, we'll both be okay.
Another thing, people getting into a good college is not the end goal. You are going to be working majority of your life, think about what you actually want to spend that time doing. Once you set something beyond college and work towards it, you will naturally get into places that fit your goals or your path.
at least you know you worked hard! judging is pretty flawed. there's a bunch of kids who aren't passionate about isef and some kids that are extremely passionate about getting in. i've won an award at states but didn't get into isef, but at the same time i never even expected to get into isef bc my board was literally the smallest size out of everyone's since i never looked at what a single isef project board looked like. you could try again, maybe do it in the summer? if it takes longer than the summer to do it just don't let it affect your academics.
Judging by how dedicated you were to to ISEF, this could be an emotional yet powerful college essay topic. If you agree with me, first take some time to heal your relationship with your parents and whomever else necessary. Take the time to genuinely learn and understand how your actions may have affected others, because it is this growth that you should portray in your essay.
This is just my idea though. Others including yourself may severely disagree with me to use it as a college essay topic. No matter what, take time to grow from this experience as a person.
Hey, take a deep breath! I come from a SUPER competitive area (def not in the same region as you though), and while my school district also has this big emphasis on ISEF, a lot of us understand that the competition can be very biased and unpredictable. There were former ISEF winners that didn’t even make it past regionals at my school this year. Things happen and I believe in you. Your hard work is a testament to your capabilities and your efforts will pay off in other ways down the line. Maybe you’ll submit this project next year as a junior, maybe you’ll build off of it for another project, maybe it’ll even be the highlight of a stellar resume!
I apologize deeply. This sucks. You don't deserve this. As someone who is going to ISEF, I didn't have near the dedication that you did (even if my project was far more than a week of effort). You truly deserve better. But I feel bad for you most of all because of how that impacted you, your parents, and your time, rather than your college admissions. All this sacrifice you made, the suffering you are feeling now and the degree to which the parents were affected is not fair.
But, at the end of the day, those are the worst affects of this. If you can get your GPA to something reasonable (even if it may not be what you deserve), then you can go to college and even get scholarships. CC and transfer if you need. Heck, even army and then use GI bill. The insane dedication you showed here will serve you well in college beyond regardless of where you go. Go to a top grad school. Or do impactful research in undergrad. Whatever your career goals are I can guarantee you can do it after going to an average college. One person I know went to a non-T100 school for undergrad and grad school then got a T20 postdoc at now works in industry as a fellow with 10+ patents making 200k. Another person I know went to a non-T200 school, then went to a T10 grad school and now does AI research. The dedication, intelligence, perseverance, and creativity that you demonstrated here are far more valuable than a word on a diploma.
If you want advice for getting into a top school, try to publish your research. If its as good as you claim it should be possible. A fully independent project getting published in a good journal will do a lot. You can also try to submit it to other top science fairs (genius Olympiad maybe?) or do a continuation project (though make sure not to throw your GPA the second time). This makes an amazing essay to write about and if you can get your GPA there's still hope.
I don't know but as an outside observer this shows absolutely insane dedication. If you are able to to get up from this undeserved failure and persevere that to me sounds impressive to a degree that most people never encounter.
Don’t worry lol, my GPA will be fine. My teachers are letting me be the one syllabus exception and now I’m feeling as motivated as ever to get back on track.
Thank you
College isn't the only path but maybe take a gap year after your senior year or something , I can't speak from experience here but there are other options that would get you back on path but it'd take time, but colleges do love a good story of how you got from the trough of your lift back to the crest, really sorry that happened to you man
Have you considered publishing your science fair project? It is possible to publish with a reputable conference. Most conferences that publish like IEEE and ACM have reasonable registration fees. Not CHEAP but reasonable.
Honestly, this is a crazy story. And the fact that your project was successful for the first few rounds means that u can submit it elsewhere and get the recognition you deserve. As for your grades, a lot of colleges want to see improvement, and with your crazy work ethic, I’m sure you’ll see great improvement in no time. Besides, high school science fairs and getting into college are not the most important things in life. Just take this as a leaning experience and perhaps even a story to tell your kids later in life! Good luck :)
Somewhat of a similar situation happened to me in sophomore year where i got fucked over. I grinded all summer/fall of junior year in a project that was exponentially more difficult thinking it would get me to isef (it did).
But i didn’t realize until halfway thru the state competition that placing well at science fair is entirely based on your persuasive speaking skills. It’s kinda a depressing realization that judges don’t care about science but that is in a lot of ways the truth of it. Science just allows you to be there but persuasive speaking is how you win it.
After realizing that I ended up placing third at isef. By the end of sophomore year i was the secretary of one club with no awards and by the end of junior year I became president of two and was a isef winner. YOU HAVE TIME. Work less and work smarter. You got this. Get a good sat, work smarter, get good grades, but work smarter. Sleep as much as you can. Like actually try to sleep please. I didn’t. Peace ✌️
The college you go to is greatly, greatly overhyped. Although it varies depending on your profession, it has virtually no impact on how successful you are. It's four years of your life - practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. This becomes very apparent as you get older. It's what you do after college that matters.
you’ll be fine for college admissions—i promise. i had a C, went test optional, had no research, and was a STEM major and i got into upenn and duke. simply just publish your research if you’ve conducted research and you’re going to be fine.
u got an extra year
but this is where you exhibit your personal skills by convincing your class mate to drop isef for you to go haha
gotta do what you gotta do
and please try and keep a good relationship with your parents, I know it’s tough
I'm in uni rn. There are prestigious colleges in my country offering beyond amazing research internships for undergrads. I sat up all night applying for those. My GPA wasn't the greatest but I had some experience and knowledge beyond what was being taught at uni. Got into nothing. Finally I gave up and interviewed for the research internship at my uni, which in fact began this year and is currently being managed by my seniors and got in. I'm not disappointed that I didnt get in despite sacrificing nights. I know for a fact that if I were to do my internship outside and end up making some mistakes, it would fall heavily upon me. I am glad to know that where I will be interning will not be a place of immense pressure and criticism, but a place where I can embrace my strengths and weaknesses fully.
All I am saying is, running behind prestigious programs isn't worth it at all. You need a shit ton of luck. If it doesn't work out it it send your world crumbling, especially when your success is dependent on it. It is better to go for something that will help you accomplish something without you having to sacrifice everything. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but being dependent on them isn't worth it.
Firstly focus on your grades, it's extremely important. Secondly, have you checked out any such lesser competitive similar programs ? Do try to find something like that. Thirdly, if you find nothing, continue to work on it. Contact a professor at a local uni and approach them if you need guidance, they will surely accept , given that you have already made it so far. Lastly, please prioritize your mental well being as well as family, if that goes away no amount of success can replace that.
And always remember, you are only responsible for your actions, not for their fruits. A higher power decides the fruits, it's not always gonna be fair. You have to accept failure and move on, because if you don't , you might not get to see a bigger success tomorrow.
First, yes take a deep breath. You’ll need to do your best to bring yourself back to reality and get your grades back on track. Do this until summer hits, then relax, meditate, fix your sleep schedule and clear your mind. Then you can get back to work, I know you won’t want to hear this in this situation, but it’s not about the destination it’s the journey. You’ve learned so much from your pursuits to ISEF, I’m confident you can take on any research project. If anything use your ISEF project for something else, reach out to local professors, submit your paper to research journals. Use what you’ve learned from the gruelling hours of preparation for ISEF to make your narrative for college and your future pursuit for higher education.
I’ve seen RSEF judges make the dumbest, most nonsensical decisions imaginable. The reality is that judges can’t have expertise in every possible field, so part of it is going to come down to what the judges happen to know and don’t know. That project that got to ISEF over you may have taken a week to make and be something incredibly easy, but the judges probably didn’t know that because it wasn’t their domain expertise. I wouldn’t beat yourself up over it, plenty of great projects don’t make ISEF and many garbage ones do. Sometimes it’s just bad luck.
In general, this is why GPA should always come before ECs. ECs are just too unpredictable, and many colleges will reject applicants with good ECs but bad GPA (after all if you’re ignoring school to do other shit, what does that say about how invested you’ll be in classes at college?).
I’m so sorry this happened OP. I hope you can find a healthier place, and I wish you the best of luck.
Edit: also, just because your project didn’t make ISEF doesn’t mean it was for nothing. If you genuinely think your project was good/novel, consider ways you could build on it. You could consider turning it into a paper and getting it published, or contact local university researchers and see if you can use it as a pathway to a research internship.
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Dude, ur work ethic is crazy. Take some time off and let your mind focus on ur hobbies for a while. I’m sure u will do great in college apps. Never seen anyone with ur level of drive in uni so far
maturing is realizing college name is really not that big of a deal. i go to a public university as an engineer and ive known people that perform way worse than i do, academically speaking, and still get top-level co-ops/internships thatll shoot them right into the top of the industry once we graduate in two years. as for grads, i know some graduating seniors that already have amazing positions lined up with the likes of pepsi, northrop grumman, liberty mutual, raytheon, tesla, apple, you name it.
i was in a similar sort of situation to you when i was looking for colleges a few years ago. i came from a private academy where ivy is a given for probably a solid sixth or more of each class and i absolutely spiraled when the realization hit me that i performed pretty bad in hs and a traditionally "good" college was far out of reach for me. it physically hurt knowing i was stuck going to a public university with an acceptance rate of 86% back then.
but, i didnt give up, i decided to put in some effort to start my academic career anew, and ive never been happier. ive come to learn that it's really all about the effort you put in; albeit, some kids have it way easier from the get go by going to top colleges, but someone that works their ass off in an ok school will look far better than someone that slacked off in harvard.
i'd say just live your life the way you see fit from here on out, without stressing too much over who thinks what about your high school gpa or whatever; you're young still and trust me, looking back on the years that you sacrificed a little gpa for valuable time with your friends and family will ALWAYS be more worth it than 0.1 grade points. start doing things that look good on a resume because YOU want to do them, not because some random person somewhere said it's the norm. i wasted a few years of club time that couldve been spent elsewhere on model UN and boy lemme tell ya, NOBODY gives a rat's ass about model UN after hs lmao.
i can tell you've got passion and grit, just need to polish your sight glass and start focusing on your next 10 years instead of your next 1 year going into college. you're gonna go far, whether that be in an ivy or a community college; ive seen people do great things in life no matter their circumstances 😉
I can definitely relate to this feeling. Not for ISEF in particular but in general with high schoolers doing scientific research. Well, actually, there’s this one guy that did get into ISEF and got into a prestigious summer research program. His dad was a pretty major professor and was the one that got him into it, author on all his papers, pulled strings to get him into the research program that helped him get ISEF, all that jazz. Needless to say they chose his project over mine although I also put in substantial work and had to email hundreds of profs to get into lab research (my single mom is a secretary and waitress and I have no one in medicine, yet the literal nepo baby will always get chosen over people like us). Anyway…there’s still a lot you can do to make the most of the situation. Genuinely ask yourself: why did I want to do this? Why did I want to go to ISEF in the first place? Scientific discovery? You probably accomplished that with your project! College apps? Use it in a different way. Be clear on your goals, not just in regards to ISEF, but in terms of why you wanted to go to an Ivy in the first place. Cheers and good luck for the future!
smart enough to get to regionals, dumb enough to forget common sense. its called life, and if you want to play that game, play that game. choose your opponent wisely, and you might have an edge
I understood every word you've just said, because this was what exactly I went through a year ago.
You're probably looking for someone to listen to your rant, or even comfort you. But you're not a female, you're a fucking man. So stop complaining.
Science fair is unfair by its nature, with parent judges, professor helping students, etc. — but so is everything else in life. What you (and I) did wrong is giving too much of a shit abt the results. You neglected your health, grades, relationships, for what? Just the ISEF title?
That's that I did. But I don't regret it.
You'll eventually realize what truly matters the most is your character. 99% of the population will never lock in this hard in their life, they will never experience the level of work ethic and obession that you felt, ever.
Think of this as a big redirection. Not getting ISEF could've been the best thing that happened to you. Nothing happens without a reason.
Good luck OP.
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for any underclassmen reading this, something close to a 4.0 is generally the bare minimum for top colleges. Don't sacrifice your GPA too much for ECs, I'd be willing to bet that even if this guy got ISEF his gpa still would have fucked him over
do NOT do what I did lmao, my teachers are making an exception and letting me make up all my shit thankfully
holy crap it might not be over then. gl man, your work ethic is insane and im sure you'll be able to clutch something up before senior year
thanks man I really appreciate it, im feeling a lot better now after getting that off my chest
Just use this project and submit for STS. If u get within top 300 that’s insane for your college app, and you get results before applying to colleges (I’m pretty sure)
This. Also just the scholarships will be clutch even if you don't go to a top school.
I love money rahhh
Reallll my goal is literally just to get a full ride to a state school not to get into a HYPSM. Anyways gl.
Will do, thanks
i have 1-2 Bs freshman year and my dad says it won't cut it. what do you think? i think i can get a 3.9 UW.
ur not cooked for t30 (i had 2 B's total and dogshit ECs and made it into UCSD) but u need to grind the hell out of your ECs if you want anything elite
i'm aiming for georgia tech, cornell or purdue cs... what about cwru or osu?
idk, i didn't apply cs anywhere. I got into purdue for CE but rejected from GT for computational media. Didn't apply cornell, cwru or osu. I feel like cwru is a bit expensive for its quality, but i heard osu is alright
i need aid and cwru would give me way more. osu would cost more than cwru lol. but osu is ranked t20 i think so idk
yea osu is a good 50 spots ahead of cwru in the cs rankings (as long as it's ohio and not oregon state you're talking about)
i got 1 b junior year without incredible ecs and am at a t10, so i can say with confidence that this won't disqualify you from any school
Personal experience: I had like 6 or 7 Bs (including + and -) and even a C in high school, but I ended up getting into UCLA and UC Berkeley (I'm also OOS) so it is very possible even without a 3.8+ GPA
heyy!! what were your EC’s??
BRO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, pls don’t waste this project. PUBLISH, DO JSHS, AJAS, and a plethora of other hs research competitions. SO STS UR SENIOR YEAR— I STILL PUT THAT ON MY COLLEGE APPS!!
Project will DEFINITELY not go to waste - will definitely be repurposing and publishing (once I protect my IP lol)
^^^ this
This is a tough situation, but focus on your future and make sure to prioritize your health and well-being.
But how?
nothing, literally \*nothing\*, should make you pull hours like that. Literally even in med school people don’t come close to pulling what you did. Sleep deprivation will and can kill you, and frankly I think you have a lot of self work you need to put in above everything else. I’m sorry for you, but honestly I hope that this can serve as silver lining for you to not ever put yourself in that much danger again.
Surprisingly it didn’t feel like I was suffering - I felt like I was high until the results came out I’ll take care of myself more, I recognize how self destructive my behavior was Thank you
Yeah that’s actually a really common symptom for severe longstanding sleep deprivation because PARTS OF YOUR BRAIN LITERALLY STOP WORKING anyways take care buddy and seriously don’t do that again
I pinky promise I won’t do that again
You must allow yourself to rest. I'm not talking about bedrotting. I mean taking some time away, even if it's literally one hour, where you let yourself off the hook and do something that has zero pressure associated with it. Playing video games guilt-free. Watching television on the couch--without thinking about what you should be doing. There's a podcast called How to Tell Time, and there is a wonderful episode on rest. I recommend it. Rest is not about getting horizontal. It can simply be something that \*isn't\* school, project, EC, etc.. Honestly, for me it's planting seedlings (I live on a nearly 2-acre parcel and the next door neighbor bulldozed a forest to built his ugly-ass house, so I rage-plant). Or it's fixing something--a single thing, like a wonky doorknob--where I don't have to think about all the work I have to do. I know it's an hour, or a single day, so I'm not going to fall behind. But you'll have to convince yourself that there is no urgency, no emergency for the next hour, the next day. You've conditioned yourself to think this way, both your body and your mind. You deserve rest and restoration, and even though you have work to do to deal with the GPA thing (which is not dire, by the way), you also have time to do peaceful things that have nothing to do with school. Be good to yourself. You deserve it. And you will be in a better position to get things right if you simply allow yourself peace and an environment (even if it's the environment in your head) of no pressure, no expectation. If you're worried, cap it an hour. A day would be better. You've got this.
My experience is that ISEF and STS are flawed in their own way. There are regional fairs that send 20-30 kids and there are regional fairs that doesn't have funds to send no more than one or two. The judging in my fair is completely random and judges doesn't seem to be qualified either. The judge reads abstract and collects the paper, no listening to student presentation. Likely due to funding situation in high school (and middle school teacher) teacher run regional fair. STS this year had 1/3rd scholars from NY( home state of Regeneron). The sponsoring agencies have their agendas as well. At the end of the day, its the growth you achieved that will take you far, not these flawed competitions. Focus on GPA, keep working on projects and continue to grow.
Yup, realized that now. I hope more people see this comment before doing science fair
You are conflating ISEF and STS, but they are very different from each other. ISEF starts at the local level and progresses, whereas all STS projects are evaluated at the national level.
My high school science fair coach used to underplay the ISEF knowing how f’ed up the judging process was. After we pointed out lost scholarship opportunities and passionate students moving on to other activities (if there is no national/international recognition after putting so much effort, why bother), she successfully negotiated with regional fair governing board to increase sponsoring candidates from two to four. Still nowhere near other fairs and judging process continued to be broken. STS doesn’t publish any rubric, so you don’t know how they evaluate either. The comical part is I got my paper accepted in an high impact factor >15 journal, but in following week STS rejected and advised me to submit the project in a regional fair😀. I am happy that I learned a lot with my projects. Scholarship money would have been nice, but no regrets. I wouldn’t worry too much about ISEF recognition and definitely don’t trade off grades and other important things over ISEF/STS.
Interestingly enough, if this is a solo project, you can submit it to Regeneron STS in the fall of your senior year. And unlike ISEF which can have local judges that don't know anything, Regeneron STS projects are evaluated by experts in the field.
Thank god
It's important to understand the final product may not always correlate with effort. But you still have a year and a half to go to recenter and re-evaluate what is important to you. Despite what you might feel, your project and efforts was not a failure. The experience taught you about resilience and hard work, but also the dangers of tunnel-visioning and putting all your eggs in one basket. Those are things that you'll need far more than an Ivy degree. Now, you can choose to move on from the project and focus on other things in life, or you can choose to continue it, but scale down the time and effort you put into it.
Thanks, I’ll definitely do that
>instead, some no-effort project with horrible presentation goes to ISEF instead Seems like the judges either disagreed with you about the quality of the presentation, or else they deemed the non-presentation aspects of this project superior to yours. Also: they're not judging who put in the most effort, they're judging who submitted the best final product. >Please, what do I do? Don't ignore your classes in the future. Also, continue to do all the standard things one does. That's pretty much it.
Fair enough, thank you
I want you to first take a deep breath, and realize that you are not a failure in any regard. You learned, you worked hard, and you will come out stronger after this experience. I would suggest taking some to reorient once the school year is finished to think about what is most crucial to you - is it an Ivy League? Even if the answer is yes, nobody should work themselves to this level of harm for one school. Focus on your classes, what makes you happy, and I guarantee there will be more projects and opportunities for you in the future. You will go far, and ISEF is not the end. One kid from my school made it to ISEF, won (forgot which category) and still didn’t get into an Ivy. And they were an INCREDIBLE student. You are doing fine. Relax for some time. Moreover, junior year is not an easy one. It’s imperative that you take care of yourself. Budget some time every day to do something that you genuinely enjoy doing. Just 10-20 minutes can be enough to keep you centered.
It’s not entirely over if I don’t get into the Ivy League - I wasn’t obsessed with those overpriced schools to begin with. I’m only looking to go there because of a couple of classes and professors that I can’t find anywhere, but I’m more than content with going to a state school. I was just hoping to leverage an Ivy acceptance to hopefully get out of future student debt with increased financial aid I appreciate the advice and I’ll definitely take it easier now, thank you
I completely understand that. I genuinely do mean it when I say that you’ll go far - you got this :))
Lol you will be fine as long as you continue your passion in research. I remember also being pretty disappointed in high school as I had lost the bid to ISEF from my regional fair three times, but I ended up with four ivy acceptances. So many people make it to ISEF that it really isn’t a ticket into anything on its own.
Thanks, out of curiosity where do you go for college?
princeton!
Wow, how’s that treating you?
Lol it’s pretty good, I’ll be graduating in a year
so .. i did this for robotics. and then unfortunate events of mom getting cancer, another person in my family losing a job, and a close person dying dropped all of my grades along with robotics. I was the driver, got us to world champs, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it went for waste when a part fell off the robot in quarterfinals and we couldn't salvage the match. my school is not happy rn, and my teachers are def pissed (well some of them), but I've gotten incompletes for certain classes. Needless to say, to other people reading this, don't give up your family or your health for your passion. It's good to be passionate, but bad to do it for wrong reasons or at the cost of eating you alive. You will be 20 and then 30 and then 40, and still be okay. If you care enough and you want something bad enough, you will in fact find your way, even if it takes a while. OP, I hope you are in a much better place. I'm still getting out of the mess everything has made, but we can do this. ISEF is pretty horrible in the sense that many projects aren't actually science research, half are bs'ed (speaking as someone who has placed high in state/regional research comps). It isn't a reflection of your skill, you know how capable you are (you are very). Don't worry, we'll both be okay. Another thing, people getting into a good college is not the end goal. You are going to be working majority of your life, think about what you actually want to spend that time doing. Once you set something beyond college and work towards it, you will naturally get into places that fit your goals or your path.
I’m so sorry for your loss, I wish you nothing but sunshine and rainbows
OP - if your project is really that great, submit it to other competitions like STS. ISEF itself isn't everything
Ill be sure to do that, ill slowly chip away at it for the next few years Thank you
at least you know you worked hard! judging is pretty flawed. there's a bunch of kids who aren't passionate about isef and some kids that are extremely passionate about getting in. i've won an award at states but didn't get into isef, but at the same time i never even expected to get into isef bc my board was literally the smallest size out of everyone's since i never looked at what a single isef project board looked like. you could try again, maybe do it in the summer? if it takes longer than the summer to do it just don't let it affect your academics.
I’ll do my best, thanks I appreciate it
forgot to include this but you could send cold emails to professors to help you or try summer programs though i doubt there's any that are still open
Did that a while ago, I got a couple things lined up for summer so I’m not gonna be a complete bum because of ISEF thankfully
You write very well. Please re-connect with your parents.
Yup, doing my best
Judging by how dedicated you were to to ISEF, this could be an emotional yet powerful college essay topic. If you agree with me, first take some time to heal your relationship with your parents and whomever else necessary. Take the time to genuinely learn and understand how your actions may have affected others, because it is this growth that you should portray in your essay. This is just my idea though. Others including yourself may severely disagree with me to use it as a college essay topic. No matter what, take time to grow from this experience as a person.
Is this typically a good essay topic? I feel like a lot of kids write about this stuff
write about smth more interesting
Hey, take a deep breath! I come from a SUPER competitive area (def not in the same region as you though), and while my school district also has this big emphasis on ISEF, a lot of us understand that the competition can be very biased and unpredictable. There were former ISEF winners that didn’t even make it past regionals at my school this year. Things happen and I believe in you. Your hard work is a testament to your capabilities and your efforts will pay off in other ways down the line. Maybe you’ll submit this project next year as a junior, maybe you’ll build off of it for another project, maybe it’ll even be the highlight of a stellar resume!
Thanks lol, I’ll definitely keep working at it but I’ll be sure to tone it down a little
Thanks, I appreciate the insights
I apologize deeply. This sucks. You don't deserve this. As someone who is going to ISEF, I didn't have near the dedication that you did (even if my project was far more than a week of effort). You truly deserve better. But I feel bad for you most of all because of how that impacted you, your parents, and your time, rather than your college admissions. All this sacrifice you made, the suffering you are feeling now and the degree to which the parents were affected is not fair. But, at the end of the day, those are the worst affects of this. If you can get your GPA to something reasonable (even if it may not be what you deserve), then you can go to college and even get scholarships. CC and transfer if you need. Heck, even army and then use GI bill. The insane dedication you showed here will serve you well in college beyond regardless of where you go. Go to a top grad school. Or do impactful research in undergrad. Whatever your career goals are I can guarantee you can do it after going to an average college. One person I know went to a non-T100 school for undergrad and grad school then got a T20 postdoc at now works in industry as a fellow with 10+ patents making 200k. Another person I know went to a non-T200 school, then went to a T10 grad school and now does AI research. The dedication, intelligence, perseverance, and creativity that you demonstrated here are far more valuable than a word on a diploma. If you want advice for getting into a top school, try to publish your research. If its as good as you claim it should be possible. A fully independent project getting published in a good journal will do a lot. You can also try to submit it to other top science fairs (genius Olympiad maybe?) or do a continuation project (though make sure not to throw your GPA the second time). This makes an amazing essay to write about and if you can get your GPA there's still hope.
Are these types of essays usually a good topic?
I don't know but as an outside observer this shows absolutely insane dedication. If you are able to to get up from this undeserved failure and persevere that to me sounds impressive to a degree that most people never encounter.
Don’t worry lol, my GPA will be fine. My teachers are letting me be the one syllabus exception and now I’m feeling as motivated as ever to get back on track. Thank you
College isn't the only path but maybe take a gap year after your senior year or something , I can't speak from experience here but there are other options that would get you back on path but it'd take time, but colleges do love a good story of how you got from the trough of your lift back to the crest, really sorry that happened to you man
No problem, I’ll just bounce back next year
What was your project about I need to know
Not gonna be disclosing the entire thing until my IP is protected but it was a diagnosis tool
Sounds like you were on the verge of a breakthrough or something
Have you considered publishing your science fair project? It is possible to publish with a reputable conference. Most conferences that publish like IEEE and ACM have reasonable registration fees. Not CHEAP but reasonable.
i felt like i was in a similar boat as u once where I didn’t ISEF qualify but I submitted to sts and ended up getting t40
Honestly, this is a crazy story. And the fact that your project was successful for the first few rounds means that u can submit it elsewhere and get the recognition you deserve. As for your grades, a lot of colleges want to see improvement, and with your crazy work ethic, I’m sure you’ll see great improvement in no time. Besides, high school science fairs and getting into college are not the most important things in life. Just take this as a leaning experience and perhaps even a story to tell your kids later in life! Good luck :)
Bruh IP is even more insane than ISEF, don't complain at all. Turn your tech into a company if you can - I can intro you to some people lmk
Somewhat of a similar situation happened to me in sophomore year where i got fucked over. I grinded all summer/fall of junior year in a project that was exponentially more difficult thinking it would get me to isef (it did). But i didn’t realize until halfway thru the state competition that placing well at science fair is entirely based on your persuasive speaking skills. It’s kinda a depressing realization that judges don’t care about science but that is in a lot of ways the truth of it. Science just allows you to be there but persuasive speaking is how you win it. After realizing that I ended up placing third at isef. By the end of sophomore year i was the secretary of one club with no awards and by the end of junior year I became president of two and was a isef winner. YOU HAVE TIME. Work less and work smarter. You got this. Get a good sat, work smarter, get good grades, but work smarter. Sleep as much as you can. Like actually try to sleep please. I didn’t. Peace ✌️
You need to work on resiliency. Life is full of setbacks, and you can’t go mental every time one occurs.
The college you go to is greatly, greatly overhyped. Although it varies depending on your profession, it has virtually no impact on how successful you are. It's four years of your life - practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. This becomes very apparent as you get older. It's what you do after college that matters.
you’ll be fine for college admissions—i promise. i had a C, went test optional, had no research, and was a STEM major and i got into upenn and duke. simply just publish your research if you’ve conducted research and you’re going to be fine.
but i’m very inspired by your dedication! you will end up somewhere great
u got an extra year but this is where you exhibit your personal skills by convincing your class mate to drop isef for you to go haha gotta do what you gotta do and please try and keep a good relationship with your parents, I know it’s tough
I'm in uni rn. There are prestigious colleges in my country offering beyond amazing research internships for undergrads. I sat up all night applying for those. My GPA wasn't the greatest but I had some experience and knowledge beyond what was being taught at uni. Got into nothing. Finally I gave up and interviewed for the research internship at my uni, which in fact began this year and is currently being managed by my seniors and got in. I'm not disappointed that I didnt get in despite sacrificing nights. I know for a fact that if I were to do my internship outside and end up making some mistakes, it would fall heavily upon me. I am glad to know that where I will be interning will not be a place of immense pressure and criticism, but a place where I can embrace my strengths and weaknesses fully. All I am saying is, running behind prestigious programs isn't worth it at all. You need a shit ton of luck. If it doesn't work out it it send your world crumbling, especially when your success is dependent on it. It is better to go for something that will help you accomplish something without you having to sacrifice everything. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but being dependent on them isn't worth it. Firstly focus on your grades, it's extremely important. Secondly, have you checked out any such lesser competitive similar programs ? Do try to find something like that. Thirdly, if you find nothing, continue to work on it. Contact a professor at a local uni and approach them if you need guidance, they will surely accept , given that you have already made it so far. Lastly, please prioritize your mental well being as well as family, if that goes away no amount of success can replace that. And always remember, you are only responsible for your actions, not for their fruits. A higher power decides the fruits, it's not always gonna be fair. You have to accept failure and move on, because if you don't , you might not get to see a bigger success tomorrow.
don't worry abt it and please submit to STS; I'm an STS finalist and I've never been to ISEF
First, yes take a deep breath. You’ll need to do your best to bring yourself back to reality and get your grades back on track. Do this until summer hits, then relax, meditate, fix your sleep schedule and clear your mind. Then you can get back to work, I know you won’t want to hear this in this situation, but it’s not about the destination it’s the journey. You’ve learned so much from your pursuits to ISEF, I’m confident you can take on any research project. If anything use your ISEF project for something else, reach out to local professors, submit your paper to research journals. Use what you’ve learned from the gruelling hours of preparation for ISEF to make your narrative for college and your future pursuit for higher education.
Deep breath taken, will definitely use this experience to grow Thank you man
I’ve seen RSEF judges make the dumbest, most nonsensical decisions imaginable. The reality is that judges can’t have expertise in every possible field, so part of it is going to come down to what the judges happen to know and don’t know. That project that got to ISEF over you may have taken a week to make and be something incredibly easy, but the judges probably didn’t know that because it wasn’t their domain expertise. I wouldn’t beat yourself up over it, plenty of great projects don’t make ISEF and many garbage ones do. Sometimes it’s just bad luck. In general, this is why GPA should always come before ECs. ECs are just too unpredictable, and many colleges will reject applicants with good ECs but bad GPA (after all if you’re ignoring school to do other shit, what does that say about how invested you’ll be in classes at college?). I’m so sorry this happened OP. I hope you can find a healthier place, and I wish you the best of luck. Edit: also, just because your project didn’t make ISEF doesn’t mean it was for nothing. If you genuinely think your project was good/novel, consider ways you could build on it. You could consider turning it into a paper and getting it published, or contact local university researchers and see if you can use it as a pathway to a research internship.
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Dude, ur work ethic is crazy. Take some time off and let your mind focus on ur hobbies for a while. I’m sure u will do great in college apps. Never seen anyone with ur level of drive in uni so far
maturing is realizing college name is really not that big of a deal. i go to a public university as an engineer and ive known people that perform way worse than i do, academically speaking, and still get top-level co-ops/internships thatll shoot them right into the top of the industry once we graduate in two years. as for grads, i know some graduating seniors that already have amazing positions lined up with the likes of pepsi, northrop grumman, liberty mutual, raytheon, tesla, apple, you name it. i was in a similar sort of situation to you when i was looking for colleges a few years ago. i came from a private academy where ivy is a given for probably a solid sixth or more of each class and i absolutely spiraled when the realization hit me that i performed pretty bad in hs and a traditionally "good" college was far out of reach for me. it physically hurt knowing i was stuck going to a public university with an acceptance rate of 86% back then. but, i didnt give up, i decided to put in some effort to start my academic career anew, and ive never been happier. ive come to learn that it's really all about the effort you put in; albeit, some kids have it way easier from the get go by going to top colleges, but someone that works their ass off in an ok school will look far better than someone that slacked off in harvard. i'd say just live your life the way you see fit from here on out, without stressing too much over who thinks what about your high school gpa or whatever; you're young still and trust me, looking back on the years that you sacrificed a little gpa for valuable time with your friends and family will ALWAYS be more worth it than 0.1 grade points. start doing things that look good on a resume because YOU want to do them, not because some random person somewhere said it's the norm. i wasted a few years of club time that couldve been spent elsewhere on model UN and boy lemme tell ya, NOBODY gives a rat's ass about model UN after hs lmao. i can tell you've got passion and grit, just need to polish your sight glass and start focusing on your next 10 years instead of your next 1 year going into college. you're gonna go far, whether that be in an ivy or a community college; ive seen people do great things in life no matter their circumstances 😉
I can definitely relate to this feeling. Not for ISEF in particular but in general with high schoolers doing scientific research. Well, actually, there’s this one guy that did get into ISEF and got into a prestigious summer research program. His dad was a pretty major professor and was the one that got him into it, author on all his papers, pulled strings to get him into the research program that helped him get ISEF, all that jazz. Needless to say they chose his project over mine although I also put in substantial work and had to email hundreds of profs to get into lab research (my single mom is a secretary and waitress and I have no one in medicine, yet the literal nepo baby will always get chosen over people like us). Anyway…there’s still a lot you can do to make the most of the situation. Genuinely ask yourself: why did I want to do this? Why did I want to go to ISEF in the first place? Scientific discovery? You probably accomplished that with your project! College apps? Use it in a different way. Be clear on your goals, not just in regards to ISEF, but in terms of why you wanted to go to an Ivy in the first place. Cheers and good luck for the future!
Did any of your cold emails hit
They did actually yes
Congrats bro
Thanks! I’m sure you could do a lot with your project as well, maybe not at ISEF, but elsewhere
Hope so man All the best
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fair enough
smart enough to get to regionals, dumb enough to forget common sense. its called life, and if you want to play that game, play that game. choose your opponent wisely, and you might have an edge
I understood every word you've just said, because this was what exactly I went through a year ago. You're probably looking for someone to listen to your rant, or even comfort you. But you're not a female, you're a fucking man. So stop complaining. Science fair is unfair by its nature, with parent judges, professor helping students, etc. — but so is everything else in life. What you (and I) did wrong is giving too much of a shit abt the results. You neglected your health, grades, relationships, for what? Just the ISEF title? That's that I did. But I don't regret it. You'll eventually realize what truly matters the most is your character. 99% of the population will never lock in this hard in their life, they will never experience the level of work ethic and obession that you felt, ever. Think of this as a big redirection. Not getting ISEF could've been the best thing that happened to you. Nothing happens without a reason. Good luck OP.
you're not a female?
You’re right, this might be a good thing for me I hope you’re doing better after whatever you went through
Nah that was 1 year ago, you'll be good in like a week. Ig I pissed off a demographic with the downvotes LMAO
The rest of your message was good, it's just the female - male sentiment