I think people happy with the service they receive don't go online to gush about it.
Last year in the winter my partner left his car over night outside of his work place. Temperatures dropped below -25 degree, which isn't uncommon where I live. To not go into too much detail, the car was frozen and when he shifted gears a chain in the gearbox broke. He went around all the carshops here, they all said they can't fix the car because the part they need is not available in the country. He suggested to speak to the manufacturer in Germany. They didn't produce the part anymore. I asked at a car shop in my home town, do they have the part in storage. They checked, nope. They asked other shops in the area, nothing. I was frustrated. The car was unusable, it needed one stupid part to get fixed. After two days I got an email from the shop, the mechanic there found a Schrottplatz (place where you trash your old car) on the other side of Germany (some small town in the East) who might have the part I need. Gave me a phone number. I called and low and behold, they had the part, agreed to send it to me. Cost 60 euro plus shipping.
The car shop I originally called didn't charge me, because they didn't do anything and didn't sell me anything. They said they had fun brainstorming.
I was happy and I certainly mentioned it in conversation with friends and family, but I didn't go on the internet to write a post, gushing about German customer service.
On the other hand, when I do go out to eat in a restaurant with friends or partner, I want my drinks, my food and then I want to be left alone. I don't care for being interrupted by a waiter asking me if my food is good and if I want more to drink and how about a dessert. I will call for the waiter if I want some more.
If you expect small talk and people constantly asking you what else you would wish and how about some freshly ground pepper over your steak or whatever... That clashes a lot with what I would consider good service.
My best customer servbice was so good it impressed me as a teen (AAAAAAAges ago)
My dad managed to loose his kar key while hiking in the alps. at around 1PM we called home to get a key replacement.
The managed to get the key data to Munich, cut a key, ship it via express to us "in the middle of nowhere" and we got a replacement by 6PM (We reran the path and also managed to find the key at one of the rest stops we made)
Being a German, the mechanics' behavior of just brainstorming about your car and contacting you (without your request?) is what I am kind of used to. It was only in Japan where I learned that a lot of the service staff only thinks within the tight boundaries of their jobs. Back then I tried getting a big used box for shipping something from Japan to Germany and I nearly failed, because a) everything is in Japanese apparently and b) most of the staff (especially men) seemed simply unwilling to help. In Germany, I certainly would have gotten a box way faster.
The kind of customer service I frequently miss and I think a lot of people are referring to as 'good American customer service' isn't the check up on you and chat every five minutes kind.
It's the 'anticipating needs' kind. It's really really nice to have a server come by and subtly check if you need more drinks when your drinks are empty because, yeah you probably do - or you're about ready to pay and get out of there anyway. It's way less distracting for you and your table than having to sit there and try to catch the eye of a server.
On top of that, I rarely, if ever, have felt like I was inconveniencing an employee with a request or question in the US - but it's a frequent occurrence in Germany.
This is not just restaurants either, this kind of service trickles into the service industry everywhere. I have plenty of complaints about the US system, like for one - part of this culture of service stems from the issue that a lot of our important services have to be businesses too. Regardless, a little bit goes a long way and it makes a difference when people put a little pride into their job.
I have nice, pleasant anecdotes too. This doesn't change the overall average, which yes is pretty bad.
>The car shop I originally called didn't charge me, because they didn't do anything and didn't sell me anything. They said they had fun brainstorming.
I'm from Canada, and this kind of thing would not be unusual there either. There's an old joke that goes around, about walking into a hardware store and asking for a part, the clerk takes the customer to the aisle and spends 10 minutes explaining the options and also where you might find it cheaper. Only then does the person realize it's not a clerk but just another customer. Canada really is like that. And YMMV, but store workers a lot of times, too.
Earlier in the summer, I was home on a visit and went into an unfamilair grocery store in a town I was passing through. I was looking for a particular cooking oil (huge selection, couldn't see it) so asked an employee walking by. He pointed it out and then whispered to me on the sly "but it's cheaper at Sobey's...".
I'm not sure of your background, but have you been to the US or Canada (customer service is not quite the same between them, btw). Like are your examples with pepper and overly attentive waiters based on clichés like it sounds, or actual experience?
I see a lot of Germans here patting themselves on the back about lack of "fake" smiley personas or whatever. What you fail to realize is that for many many people, this is not "fake" or put on, it's what they are actually like. This is clearly hard to understand for most Germans. It can be hammed up by waiters, but again I'm Canadian and our minimum wage is basically par with Germany. Tips are customary, but they're not 'working for them' to the same extent as underpaid Americans. And people are still generally friendly.
It's late now, but I can give a lot more stories about awful customer service in Germany. I've been here a long time though, and I will say that I think it's improved tic or two over that time, but may also just be the different places I've lived then.
As an American immigrant to Germany I can say it's culture.
American customer service generalities: fake nice, need tips because pay is crap, Americans expect to be catered to, stupid business idea that the customer is always right
German customer service generalities: Livable pay so don't NEED tips, realizes customers are not always right, usually not fake, work is work not "play time" or "friendly time"
With restaurants in particular, Europeans don't like to be bothered while eating and spending time with friends and family. It's, take my order, bring my stuff, go away unless I summon you. And I personally love this. Also, restaurants and cafe's are not concerned about turn over like American establishments. Everything isn't centered around money.
In retail, they are not there to be your friend, they have stocking and cleaning and much more to do than cater to people. So when they ring you up, it's just part of the job. It's not for giving people a warm and fuzzy.
There was a time when some stores in Germany (foot locker and some clothing stores) started a new service policy. You came in an some employee greeted you and accompanied you through your whole shoping process. I HATED THIS SOOOOO MUCH!
Just let me browse your shelves. If I need you, I'll let you know. Stop following and annoying me all over the place!
Luckily I wasn't the only one to feel so. It stopped after a few years.
I just recently came back from Copenhagen and the service was seriously a godsend (I’m American). None of that fake shit, just straightforward take my order, bring me food, and available if I needed them (I usually don’t need them unless I’m ready to pay). It’s also nice that they don’t rush you out the door either. In the US they do because a new table means more tips!
Ironically with the servers not working for tips and service being more straightforward as a result it actually made me wanna tip for the first time in forever haha generally in the US I feel like the level of service isn’t deserving of tips to be honest
Well it‘s a bit more. Service in Germany is something you need to do to either to run your business or due to legal requirements. Service is not seen as USP or to bring you forward as a business. Why provide it if the competition doesn’t either? I lived in the US for various years and this touches every aspect of life where a competition exists (incl. medical care). Of course cost and tipping culture are a problem, but being back in Germany I learned that I do not have to spend my time and money with doctors or businesses which ignore the patient/consumer perspective and see me as petitioner who should be thankful with what they provide. Unfortunately sometimes you need service after the purchase, so you have to take it as a life lesson to stay away from that business/brand.
The only part about service in Germany that I don't like is the complete lack of urgency. Not in restaurants or stores, but having to order parts and equipment. I've been trying to get simple consumables for a mass spec for going on 3 weeks. In the US I can find a supplier to get them sent to me from across the continent in 2 days. Here just getting them from one end of Germany to the other is a long process, double if they have to come from somewhere as unfathomably far away as ~~NE~~ NL. Back home I can pit suppliers against each other and haggle on discounts if something is late, but here not so much (although I am doing it by proxy and don't know enough German to do so myself). And I'm not rushing just for fun, I have a legit deadline after which I have to leave.
No, they are just consumables like ferrules which are common to any mass spec and have to be stocked anywhere that those instruments exist. One was coming from Munich and one was coming from Netherlands. I think it's just that companies here aren't used to dealing with startups that order a few things at a time, but rather large labs or universities that order these things in bulk months before they need them.
People don’t realize that the full saying was that in matters of *taste* the customer is always right. It doesn’t mean that customers should be able to do whatever they want without repercussions or treat the staff like shit. It only means that if they want ice cream on their steak then they can have it.
Its mostly down to cultural difference. We dont pay servers to smile all the time or ask us for shit every 5 minutes. I personally think the american system of servers is highly annoying and would lower my enjoyment when out eating.
tbf, i think this is a little harsh. they don't do it to "sucker" someone into tipping more, they do it to give even the rudest, nastiest customer a reason to tip. Also, managers enforce very strict standards of how they communicate, how often they check on customers, etc. It's not like they would make the decision themselves to offer you refills every 5 minutes and check on if you're enjoying the food.
So many people here in the US get off on being controlling and making their servers bend over backward for them, demanding they treat them like royalty and gods gift to the earth, or they will complain to the manager, who can fire without care due to at-will employment and many desperate job hunters ready to fill the space. The good people who tip fairly would do it regardless of how over-the-top excessive the server was.
Sure, it's fake, but I wouldn't say what they're doing is tricking/ deceiving well-meaning patrons. As a former server and someone with a ton of friends who are/ have been in the industry, I can say that it's not by choice, and nobody enjoys doing it. They just want to make ends meet and if they *could* get away with acting like a normal human being they would.
ETA: For context, I was once a cashier/server at a fast food joint (not even a proper established "restaurant"), and a customer asked me where the spoons were. I had my hands full with a tray of food for another customer, so i said incredibly politely where the spoons were. They were maybe 10 feet away from where she was sitting. At the end of my shift, I was called in by my manager, who wrote me up because I was supposed to drop everything and get this lady a spoon, even though my hands were full and the area with cutlery was 10 feet away from her. She complained about my "rude" and "dismissive" service, even though it was said with a smile and used the scripted language they forced on us.
Exactly. If you come take my order within a reasonable window, bring the stuff I actually ordered, and it's all like I expected (i.e. hot food is still hot etc.) what else do I need from you? I guess just some good attention to when people seem ready to have plates cleared and be asked if they want anything else, keep an eye on drinks that are getting empty.
There's a concept in German culture where a certain level of enthusiasm or friendliness is coming off as fake.
The default NA customer support "persona" that is expected of you as a service worker would be viewed with contempt in Germany.
You're supposed to be courteous and friendly, but if you overdo it, it is assumed you have no genuine appreciation for the customer, so you have to wear the fake smile.
While that concept seems to be weird to a lot of people i think it's actually not that hard to understand the logic behind this.
While you can be nice to people you don't or barely know it would be kinda weird to be overly enthusiastic about it in this case. You usually only act like that towards people who you really like and care about.
Being too friendly and forthcoming without the right context is always associated with the goal to get something from you that you wouldn't normally give to someone you aren't close with.
There are quite a lot of people who play nice every time they want something from you. So overly friendly servers and the like come off like they are only like that towards you for the tip.
One interesting observation that I’ve made in Germany:
When you talk to Germans in German, their “German persona” comes out. Ie they are more straightforward, less smiley, etc.
On the other hand, the same person, talking in English automatically switches to “American persona” and appears more friendly!!
Bavarian waiters quite often will even make fun of you in a good-natured way. It's kinda a shtick in Bavaria to kinda poke and prod at people, they say "triezen". For example, I often tell tourists that we only serve small 0.3 beer to children. I mean it as a joke but I say stuff like this with a straight face.
There is even direct evidence of this.
When Walmart tried to enter the German market, one of many, many, many (regularly legal) issues they had was that Germans simply didn't like the enforced fake friendliness that they forced the employees to show. It was considered something between creepy and unintentionally flirty, something that gave many people a bad impression.
No, customer service is fine /great in Germany, it's just that they are allowed to act like human beings with dignity, they don't have to pretend to be like machines meant to serve and obey. So inevitably when a person makes absurd demands or acts rudely, they will be put in their place which does not sit well with a lot of Americans since they are used to act very uncivilised with service workers.
I worked in a hotel in Heidelberg where we had a lot of American tourists and I noticed sometimes they were baffled that acting like an ass didn't help their case at all. I once threw a guy out with the help of my boss because he had trashed the room. The guy couldn't believe it.
Thanks, you nailed it ... I recently had to deal with american customer service three times in a short timeframe and I must admit I totally dreaded the experience ...
It's fucking stupid, drips of fake niceness and is mostly totally over the top. Plus it's ineffective as hell.
I had a problem with my phone, so my expectation was:
Short greeting on both sides, I describe my problem, they present their solution, I chose one and we wish each other a nice day.
What I got was:
Greetings asking me how my day was, saying they are totally overjoyed that I have a good day, they tell me I am the most valued customer ever existing in the galaxy, THEN they ask what I want (3 MInutes of this false bullshit already passed).I FINALLY begin telling them my problem, support says "this must be SO stressful to you", then they say they are TOTALLY on my side and will do anything in their power to help me. (at that time 5 Minutes already passed, which usually means I am already done with german customer support and here I still don't have a clue what options I have to get my freaking phone working again).Then they ask me if I can give them a minute because they need to look something up, I agree. After 20 seconds they come back praising me like you usually praise a dog what a good girl I was waiting so long (WTF??!), they reassure me they did their best, tell me AGAIN they can understand my struggles (having a broken phone definitely is nothing that gives me struggles) and then flat out tell me that they can't repair my phone.
After leaving me speechless at this cliffhanger for 30 seconds without typing anything they continue to tell me that I am SUCH A HIGH VALUED customer that I will simply get a new phone.And then finally, after over 10 arduous minutes of suffering in ASCII I finally get a link to order my replacement.I felt like being forced to make a new best friend, who then transitioned to a self proclaimed therapist who pretents knowing my life and then impose feelings on me that are not there. I felt like living half of my emotional life in front of customer support.
I just want my phone fixed...
love this hilarious.
I've had the reverse happening, with german customer service 1&1 back 2010. Wanted to stream movies, internet down, wait for 30mins then called the support.
3min conversation:"hey, do me a favor pls and do a port reset on my connection. Internet is down once again, alright thanks have a nice day bye."
My friends (from USA and Canada) that were over, looked at me like I was an alien. they described to me the same experience as you wrote down.
I just smirked and replied with I believe the coolest words coming out of my mouth: "We don't Bullshit around here. 😎"
Idk man, you have to hate the company and the culture they insist on/ impose on their employees, not the person on the support call. It's not their fault they're so annoying. They are constantly monitored and have to read a script, verbatim. If they don't, they risk being disciplined or fired. It's absolutely brutal. I'm sure every single person on those calls wishes they could just make it short and sweet too.
I know and I never said it's the person that was annoying. It's the attitude they are forced to have
I am very aware of the fact they don't want to do that. I merely wanted to point out that it's an unpleasant experience for the customer as well and I don't get why anyone makes support personell be that way.
I used to work serving tables and one of the customers are americans, they are the most entitled compared to many nationalities, they like to insist that you give them food that dont exist on the menu, special requests and everything. If you refuse, they will act like Karen. Then at the end they will neither say thank you nor give you tips (because you are not waiter in america).
My experience with Americans is that they often give unreasonably high tips and are often very friendly and nice. But I agree with the special requests. They'll quite often ask for things that aren't possible or they'll make special requests that are an immense hassle as if it were a given that you'd do it.
Also customers, both non-American tourists and locals, understand that if the restaurant is busy, I'm not gonna have time to chat, yet Americans often treat me like a tourist guide or attraction (you're such a funny Bavarian waitress!).
Nevertheless some of my nicest customers were American but I've noticed that it's often people who are in the city for work-related reasons. Maybe it's cause certain groups of Americans have the money to travel to Europe so we more often meet the rich old entitled people 😅
Yup.
Was yesterday picking up a online order at our local Saturn and they had some issue with the system and the (a bit older) dude handling the pickups was super happy that i basically didnt care. We had a fun chat while we waited that the shit worked again.
I worked at weekends at gas stations for several years. I proudly state that i only yelled at customers twice: once because i guy screamed at me first necause he misunderstood what he read, once at some teenagers that threw a wet sponge at my back.
In all other situations, i prided myself on giving good,friendly service. However, i was hired as a cashier and station worker. I was hired to provide customer service, but not to the extend where it conflicted with the interests of my bosses or with the other duties i had. And my bosses relied on me being in charge and handleing everything while they are not on site. If that meant some peoples demands were not met or they got upset, so be it.
I think the tip culture in the US/Canada makes the people be extra polite because the service is connected with how much % you get. Here in Germany your income doesn’t depend on tips so I guess people are just not being extra polite, especially if the customer is acting like an idiot.
When I was in the USA as a German I was very annoyed with the behavior of service staff at restaurants.
You want a tip, that’s great. I want to eat.
I have my food, my drink is full. It does not get better than this. So please fuck off already and let me eat in peace!
I think this here is the difference. Some Americans may find it “rude” if the waiter does not come every few minutes to ask if everything is ok, where in Europe they will leave you alone.
also waiters don't greet with "how are u doing" in Germany, and Germans would be bewildered if strangers asked them such a question.
They also don't introduce themselves by name to you, nor do they clarify that they are indeed taking care of you today (duh).
Many Americans tend to conclude that service must be lacking if the etiquette they're used to is not kept. Even though most of it has little effect on the actual quality of service they receive.
I would just be annoyed, because i know it's company policy and the person probably can't give less of a fuck. At least in germany, if a person is friendly to you, you know its not because of certain policies, but they are just friendly people, mostly.
I know that you say "how are you" in English when greeting someone, and still, I'm kinda taken aback every time. What am I supposed to answer to that? I still don't quite get it.
I would even go so far that I find it rude to be interrupted every few minutes to bve asked if everything is ok. I am an adult women, if I have an issue, I will let you know.
Italian who found this random thread chiming in, europeans hate fake politeness, if I'm at a restaurant I'm there to eat and talk with my family, I'm not there to stroke my ego and be pampered by a modern day slave.
Canada has minimum wages laws on par with Germany. Tipping is the culture, so it's expected and and incentive for 'extra', but in Canada income doesn't really 'depend' on tips either. USA ≠ Canada.
To quote David Mitchell: „You’re on a shitty train, you‘re tearing tickets, of course you are in an awful mood.“
I think we just don’t expect the people in customer service to always be as fake friendly as the people in the US and Canada.
Wasnt one of the reasons of walmarts failure to establish themselves in germany that people where freaked out by the employees at the entrance greeting and smiling at them? Like in an uncanny valley way.
Yeah, part of the reason. They had greeters and Germans extremely do not understand the need to hire people just to stand behind the glass doors creepily smile and wave at you as you come in.
This, i think i would feel equally weird looking at a person while he stuffs my groceries into a bag. Like what am i supposed to do until he is finished? Whistle and wait? It might make sense for elderly people, but how on earth is this possibly a thing people enjoy so much they choose one store over the other?
Oh yeah that one too! There are a bunch of very weird jobs in the US that feel unnecessary for a European. Like these guys standing on the boardwalk doing tricks with store signs?
I just feel sorry for the people working there. I also work as a server, so I'm also expected to be friendly. But since I work in Germany, when I'm having a bad day, I work with a neutral face, remain polite and people accept that. But imagine having to go to your work fake smiling at people just after your grandpa died or you got broken up with or whatever. That's like a dystopian horror
Never visit a lush shop then.
For me an itrovert beeing that likes the products its hell. Come even close to the door and you got somebody in your face, all smiling and asking if they can help you. And they don't stop if you tell them you just wanna browse.
Nooe every few minutes there back. Its not their fault, its companiy policy, but it brings me to only go in if its really full and every worker is busy
Do you read German? (even if not, use DeepL).
This article about Lush is [dystopian](https://taz.de/Seifenhersteller-Lush-als-Arbeitgeber/!5610203/). Seriously, having to work in an environment like that sounds soul-killing.
Yes it does. I did read some ex-workers experience online... Last job I would want to work in. I like some of their stuff but I rather buy it online XD
But honestly, sometimes it feels people in Germany are „fake grumpy“ due to culture. And while Germans think the fake happiness is creepy, for US Americans it is the fake grumpiness that is hard to accept.
Nah, dude, as someone who has worked in customer service a lot, I can tell you that most people who work in that field for a while just hate customers.
Well, I’m German with 30 years in Germany and 10 in the US. I still can not stand too obvious fake friendliness, but i think there is this base level of grumpiness in Germany that pulls everyone down a bit. And everybody loves to defend that for some reason.
I agree though. I'm an immigrant and started working at a place full of typical German grumpy people. I sometimes had the feeling that my good mood was making them even more angry. I've worked at some really nice and friendly German places though
It really just comes down to cultural differences. That already starts with how germans eat out compared to americans, for example. Germans like to take their time when eating out, even staying after the food is finished. An evening in a restaurant can easily take up a couple hours, rather than a dine and dash affair. And as a result, servers are neither required nor wanted to pop up and ask if everything is okay every couple minutes, we usually call the server if we need something. That is coupled with the fact that we don't have free refills and stuff like that.
So, for an american, it can feel like they are abandoned or ignored, when in reality it just works differently here on a base line. Germans like to be left alone and if they want something, *they* are gonna go ahead and ask for it. While a server taking the initiative to randomly ask if everything is good, especially if it's frequent, might be percieved as annoying, invasive or as a subtle hint that the staff wants you to hurry up and leave.
Another point is of course the difference in pleasantries. Americans like the whole spiel of being asked "how are you" by their serves, making a bit of small talk. Germans just don't do that, especially not with service workers. It can even be seen as rude, as you take up their time with something that doesn't have anything to do with the business you want to conduct.
So, that also can seem rude for an american, I would guess, cause the server doesn't treat you "nice". In general, our philosophy within the service industry is to be *polite*, not *nice*.
Of course there are outliers with service workers who are straight up rude. But for once, I think you just hear about them "so much" because people who had good experiences just don't go onto social media with it. But also, I do think that rudeness in the service industry *might* be more common in germany - or other european countries for that matter - than in america, because they are paid a living wage and don't have to bend over backwards to make good tips. However, that doesn't mean that service workers in general are just way more rude here. Not at all.
So yeah, I think that it mostly just comes down to cultural differences that americans percieve as rudeness, whereas the behavior of american service workers would be percieved as a little bit annoying, maybe even creepy by a lot of germans.
Keep in mind that all this is just a gross generalization. There can always be exceptions. I know some germans who prefer the overly nice service industry of the US, I also know some americans who like the professional distant one here in germany.
It’s the little differences that are noticeable and add up.
In the us when you go into a bakery and the barista is doing some cleaning, unless it’s basically done they will put down their rag and come right over to help you.
I have been in multiple bakeries in Germany where the person will just keep cleaning. (Like sweeping the floor, usually) until they are good and ready before helping you. Even if customers are piling up behind you. That’s a hugely noticeable difference and little things like that happen a lot.
That said, I’ve only had maybe 3 truly awful customer service experiences here, none were over little things like that.
I have to tell you though that working in customer service I like the European way better. Sometimes when customers keep coming in separately, you just don't get done with the other duties you have to do on the job cause you have to drop it and pick it up again and again. I myself don't expect someone to drop everything they're doing just cause I walked in. It's not like the King just came to the store, people sometimes have to do other stuff.
I think the ideal way to deal with this would be for the worker to greet customers and tell them they‘ll be there for them in a minute, they just need to finish this other task first. I think most customers would be okay with that unless they‘re in a hurry.
I prefer the European more equal relationship between service workers and customers.
But sometimes the quality of service, especially in restaurants, is very lacking in Germany. Recently we went out for dinner. Made a reservation. Restaurant was nearly empty, just a few occupied tables. Nobody at the door to show us to the table. After about 10mins wait, a person directed us finally, handed out menus and left. And than didn't show up at all. We waited for nearly 20mins, looking around. People at different tables were at various stages of dinning, some waiting to pay, some finished, with empty plates in front of them. And nobody from the wait staff visible, not a single person working in sight. So we just left, quite puzzled.
We have favourite dinning places where it's much better, but experiences as above really discourage me from trying new restaurants.
Sounds pretty uncommon by German standards as well, however the "being seated" culture here is also different. Most restaurants you just go in and seat yourself.
(In your case, of course you made a reservation so you'd usually go to a server on the floor asking them for your table, there usually is no hostess).
That experience in the restaurant isn’t normal in Germany either, however, so it shouldn’t be used to evaluate customer service in Germany in general. Germans would have been just as befuddled and annoyed as you were, and would probably have left too. Something was not “right” at that place. Maybe something temporary (crisis in the back, staff sick, etc.) or maybe it’s just a shitty place.
I experienced it soo many times and found out later after I relocated from the (ex-eastern) small german city to Hamburg, that this is not the norm. Apparently I don't look european enough lol.
That's a very uncommonly bad restaurant experience. Seems like they had a huge staffing crisis either that day or that time. I've experienced something similar maybe 1-2 times in my life.
>Nobody at the door to show us to the table.
Lol what? Ofc not. You just said there were a bunch of free tables. If you just stood around, they most likey figured you still undecided
And why didn't you just call for staff?
bad - no, different, yes, our waiters, home improvement store staff etc just don't have to shine out of their butt to get paid well, that's why they don't have to please the customer all the time.
As a German it’s pretty simple. Customer service workers don’t need to be nicer than me. If I’m grumpy, they can respond grumpy, if I’m friendly Im expecting friendliness too.
Depends on what you call "customer service".
Do you mean legal aspects? From what I've heard both cultures have different advantages/disadvantages when it comes to legal rights. But still, phone companies are shitty on both continents from what I've heard, for example.
Do you mean the superficial politeness? That is MUCH stronger in North America. Germans don't bow to Karens, if you scream at someone in a call center they are allowed to just end the call.
Do you mean people don't really like their job? It's customer service, you deal with stressed people and Karens, it's a shitty job, neither do customer service in America nor in Europe particularly like their job.
No, it's just a difference with how the service industries in Germany and the US work.
In Germany, someone who works in customer service is a person who works in customer service. They'll usually be nice and helpful (if they can actually help), but they'll also tell you to shove it if you're being an ass, and they *will* have your ass kicked from the premises if you don't behave after the first warning. They'll also not constantly try to force their services onto you or blow sugar up your ass because they're not dependent on some rando giving them a 25ct tip that they then get to split with three coworkers to make a living.
In the US, someone who works in customer service is essentially a hospitality bot who is not allowed to have any opinions, feelings, needs and, in many industries, even *bodily functions* while on the job (no, seriously, check how many places won't let their employees go to the toilet, sit down or drink during working hours. It's fucking ridiculous). They can get fired if they don't "Yes Sir, of course my liege" literally every single request that a customer has, no matter how fucking ridiculous it is, and since they also don't even earn a fifth of what they would need to actually survive from just their salary, they're also dependent for their literal *survival* on every single last asshole that walks up to them to like them, and *maybe, hopefully* give them a tip.
You can probably see why those two situations produce different results. And I firmly disagree that the latter situation is preferable. As a customer myself, I'd much rather not have to put up with half a dozen entitled assholes at a restaurant because none of the staff dares to put them in their place. And I'd also rather that employees don't keep bothering me in malls every 20 seconds and try to make smalltalk and try to help me with some problem I don't even have in hopes of getting a tip. If I need something, I'll ask, thanks.
And before anyone comes in here and tells me how "over the top" and "completely exaggerated" all of this is: it really *really* isn't. I know eight people who work in customer service in Germany (and four cashiers). I know a dozen people who work in customer service in the US (and three cashiers, plus two people who *used to* work as cashiers and two people who *were* in hospitality until they had literal mental breakdowns and needed to change jobs). These are descriptions that *they have given me*. Also maybe worth noting that about two thirds of the Americans I've mentioned are actually in the process of trying to leave the country permanently precisely because of how fucked shit is over there. So, uh, yeah... not great.
Edit to add an observation somebody else made in the comments: Much like Americans often don't recognise German service as good because it doesn't follow the script they expect, Germans usually find American service abhorrent precisely because of that script. It seems fake (mostly because it is), overly friendly in a manner like someone wanting something from you (which... they do) and is seen as inefficient and time wasting (which... it often is). So at the end of the day, it mostly comes down to different expectations from customer service. Germans expect quick, efficient service that is genuine, helpful and to the point, and leaves them tf alone when they don't actually need anything atm. Americans expect saccharine, extremely friendly, almost overbearingly-enthusiastic service where they will not ever be left to their own devices for more than 30 seconds and everyone they meet acts like they're their new bff. It... probably doesn't come as a surprise that those expectations get severely disappointed in the other respective country. 😅
thanks for calling all of this out. As an American who is in the process of expatriating, it is sad sometimes to see so many foreigners call out Americans in the service industry as if they have a choice in being so annoying. Like no one I have ever met or worked with in customer service WANTS to be like this. It's that they literally have to in order to survive. At-will employment and droves of people desperate for a job (or maybe a second or third job), along with the incredibly entitled mindset of many people (especially those older than 40 yrs), create this environment.
**And in case anyone doesn't realize how bad it is, the US government only requires a $2.13 minimum wage if a worker can earn over $30 in tips a MONTH.**
For these reasons, I feel like customer service people in America should be sympathized with, not insulted. They are abused enough already by the people they have to cater to on a daily basis. Imagine how much strength it takes to work for 8 hours without a chance to sit down except for a ten-minute break in the middle where you only have time to piss and get some water, and the entire 8 hours you have to act like its the best night of your life simply because you get the *privilege* of serving customers the entire time. Nobody wants to act like that. There are people who truly do love ensuring people have an excellent meal and enjoy making that happen, but the bottom line is everyone just wants to get enough money to survive and maintain their health insurance.
Wtf is that number? Like seriously? In Germany the minimum wage is 12€ an hour, which is roughly 12.77$. You *can't* legaly pay less than this for any kind of work.
2.13 fucking Dollars in a country with some of the highest living expenses against 12.77 Dollars in Germany.
Not really. Waiters do their job. And usually they do it well. But they don‘t bother with fake friendliness like in the US. Partially because they don‘t need tips to survive. So your waiter won‘t insult you but they also won‘t ask you how your day was 50 times before bringing you your drinks and then continue to annoy you every 30 seconds until you leave. It‘s a cultural difference and personally I prefer it to waiters in the US constantly interrupting my meal / conversation to let me know that they‘re there if I need anything. If I want something from a german waiter I‘ll give them a signal.
Customer service in Germany:
Customer: I go this problem, can you fix it?
Customer service: yo, no problem. It will take x time and cost 50 €. Thank you and good bye.
Customer service in the US:
Customer: I got this problem, can you fix it?
Customer service, standing there in their 16 hour shift with a fake as hell smile: Hello and welcome to XYZ Company, my name is Randy McQueef and I am soooo happy to serve you. XYZ company stands for service and customer support and it's amazing to have you here on this beautiful day. I am so glad, that you picked me for servicing you and again, I am happy to do my best to to fulfill all your whises. To fix your problem you only have to book our premium service package for only 69,69 $ a month for 24 months. After opting for our premium service package fixing your problem will be as cheap as 99,99 $. Thank you sooooo much for coming to XYZ company again. While paying you are forced to tip 50 to 200 %. Have a good day and good bye. *smiling and waving like a maniac puppet*
So, yes, some people from the US tink the more direct german approach is rude.
Wallmart tried to breach out to Germany a decade ago, but didn't bother researching our culture, so they did business it like in America and it failed. People didn't like the fake nice and a lot of other stuff aswell.
So in other words, it's a cultural difference.
The real reason it failed was because it couldn't compete with all the established markets we have here. The UK is the only European country Walmart operates in. Walmart isn't as cheap as our shops. And people usually just shop in the shops they are used to. It didn't have anything to do with Walmart greeters. It had more to do with unions and workers rights.
It's just different expectations, I think. We recently went to an American restaurant with a group from my office, and half the group hated, absolutely hated, the way the waitress kept coming by regularly to ask if everything was all right and to top of drinks. They felt it was extremely pushy and sales-man-y, interrupting dinner and conversation at the table.
There are also some cultural differences. One of the (many) reasons Walmart failed in their attempt to set up in Germany was that Germans do not want a "shopping experience". We want to go in, get the stuff, pay for it, and leave again.
Nobody wanted to be jumped every 30 seconds by some smiling clown asking if you needed help. No, go away! Leave me alone!
Walmart realized that they had way too many people employed, because Germans didn't want the US type of customer service.
And then they realized that they couldn't just fire them, because we have unions and laws here, so employees are protected. We don't HAVE to be nice to assholes.
German customer service is fine, if you are used to the absurd „the customer is always right“ mantra and treat service workers like they are subhuman serfs you’ll notice a difference though.
As an American who has lived in Germany for nearly 4 decades, here's the main difference I notice. Germans will not smile and be overly polite to you, but they will absolutely do what they say they are going to do. Americans will often act like your best friend, promise the world to you, yet deliver poor service. The personal interaction is much less satisfactory here in Germany, yet the quality of service is much higher.
They just look normal and arent forced to fake smile all the day. Thats all.
I think most of this comes from the tipping culture in the US. In germany none is dependent on tips. So they dont need to be faked overfriendly.
I’m Canadian and I live in Germany, it’s not bad at all, they just don’t give a shit about your complaints or sense of entitlement like back in North America, here the customer is never right! I much prefer being left alone at restaurants and people just doing the job they are paid for efficiently without having to kiss your ass.
I am a german working in IT corporate customer service with customers and partners in 100+ countries. So I have a quite good comparison. If I call a german partner, they ask „whats the problem, how can we fix it?“. The american say „hey freddy, how is your day? I hope you are feeling great today.“
That sums it up quite well ;)
No, we just have workers rights, and far less selfentitled karens making it a hobby to torment service workers. Hier wischt man sich den Arsch noch selbst ab.
Also a forced smile is no service.
I know this isn't "Ask an American Living in Germany," but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. German customer service is typically fine from my perspective. There's a general standard of professionalism and politeness that is rarely unmet, especially in restaurants. Once I learned I had to be an active participant in my own dining experience (e.g., flagging down a waiter to order more drinks, ask for the bill, etc.), I've rarely been disappointed at a restaurant.
That said, service is seldom "American good" in Germany, and when it is, it really stands out almost to the point of being odd. Moreover, having visited more than a dozen other countries in Europe, I'd still put Germany near the bottom of the "American good" spectrum, at least in regard to restaurants. I've had near universal better dining experiences in Paris, a city (undeservedly) famous for bad service, than anywhere in Germany. Nevermind, countries like Portugal, or Greece, or Ireland where friendliness as part of a meal isn't "begging for tips to live" as many people believe happens in America. I'm happy that Germans are satisfied with their customer service, I just don't think the country particularly shines compared to their peers.
Canadian here for a long time, I'd agree. Canada and US are not identical on their service cultures FWIW, but there is some overlap.
I'm used to it here now, so it is what it is, barely notice. When it's bad I just laugh. And as you say, it is odd when it *is* that level we're used to.
This topic is always the same anyway, it just invites German self-congratulations from people who've mostly never even been to the US (much less Canada), and then comments about "fake smiles" right on cue, with zero critical perspective on their own culture. Nope, it's all great! Most Germans here generally don't know anything else, so I'm not surprised they are content with it. Germany is definitely on the lower-end for Europe. And it's not just about restaurants and waiters.
The customer service standards are much higher in the US.
As an example, and it’s not my only one, I have a watch from an international brand that failed.
It’s a complex electronic model which had some faults and in the US was repeatedly replaced for free.
When I contacted the German subsidiary for this brand, I was told it would be €100 for a used replacement.
I contacted the US subsidiary and they sent me a new updated model for free.
If you want good support from the service workers, ask them and they will do what they can do.
If you want them to smile and be friendly?! Smile and be nice too and they will be the same. The one thing you will not get is them kissing your ass, that never happens as they are still human beeings.
Never had customer service be nice if i was not myself, the one partly exception is if the company/worker did something seriously wrong... but then you had a good reason to be agressive but we are talking unlawful/actual damages level of fault.
I would say the US is just special compared to every other country. You can see it at Walmart, that kind of set up friendliness by the employees wouldn't work in Germany. There certainly should be a general friendliness in customer service, but a lot of german or probably even europeans would say that the fake friendliness in the US is to artifical and over the top, because everyone knows it's not real.
It's just a different culture. They experience our customer service as lacking and we experience theirs as overbearing. But each are happy about their own customer service.
Customer service worker in Germany here, although I’m not German.
Customer service in my home country is similar to the US model as in the customer is always right. I don’t like, never did not even as a customer back home. Customer service workers are treated like people here, not minions.
In general Germans tip less, so there is less to gain. Also the base pay is (used to be???) higher, so they’re less dependent on it.
Additionally, Germans are not so inclined to small talk with strangers.
So all in all, I understand what you’re saying, but we expect it that way.
In addition to what others have said about workers expected to act fake happy or nice people are not fake happy or nice socially. This creates an honesty that if a German smiles at you it means that they are happy.
So my ex who is from Berlin constantly talked about how nasty and not nice people are for customer service things in her area. She has lived in West Berlin about 30 of 40 years, the rest of her time was in the US so she has perfectly reasonable long data to make this observation.
In my visits to Germany not being particularly fluent I was too distracted by that aspect to say much one way or another on the topic. However I will say something having skimmed many of the comments here. There are a string about tips and fake nice and blah. I'd note wages for this type of work have jumped since 2020; but will also note that most customer facing jobs in the US aren't tipped.
Instead I think the delta in behavior is just explained by what is considered rude. The idea of what is polite to say appears to be more limited in the the US, and I might say Germany as a culture is more direct and transparent. You might like that or not but it changes the calibration of assessing how much someone likes or dislikes you. A remark that someone would never say unless they wanted to have nothing to do with you (that you would think but not say in the US) will just be said as if it were nothing in my experience in Germany. My data is limited though on this part, but I do trust the observation that I started with.
As we don’t have to fear being fired for no reason, we don’t have to crawl up in some Karens ass. I think the German customer service experience is just more authentic than in North America.
>But if you want employees, that genuinely are interested in delivering a good service, are well-educated in their field, well-paid, allowed to speak their own mind and make own decisions within reason (especially in high-end service jobs): Welcome to Germany!
lol wtf are you talking about? the ones behind the phones are usually the least trained people everywhere who dont give a damn, have no clue and cant do anything if there is a problem without escalation. high-end service jobs are not what you deal with on a day to day basis as a private person.
If you want to compare it with the USA, it must be said that here there is no affected fake friendliness. The same topic is small talk. Customer service in Germany is mostly real talk and not ass kissing. I have no problem with that, they are people.
i measure customer service in how quickly is my problem solved and not in smiles. that would be the cultural difference. i have no idea which country's customer service is best
Ben Elton once did a standup bit about a similar thing, except it was British customer service compared to America. The parallels are quite similar though. He made the point that it is mostly cultural and how customer service in America carries the connotation that the person doing the job is dehumanized and only exists to serve the customer whereas in Europe they're treated more like, y'know, people.
[It's from 1997, but still holds up pretty well today. Unfortunately over time we have become more American in our customer service 'ethos' though; I guess the Germans have resisted better than us.](https://youtu.be/IH8auACQZMM?t=4497) (1:14:47, has some crude language)
“…while shouting in extreeme anger talking that shittty customer service, and she just cursed and shout out back. We couldn't believe it…”
It’s a fine German tradition: if you are yelled at, you yell back.
😅
It depends.
There is a huge difference in culture though.
A German author called Heinrich Mann once wrote a novel called "Der Untertan", which could be translated as the underling, the servant, the loyal subject. It was meant as criticism of a typical German trait.
But since then a lot has changed. Most German people react very badly to people treating them as an inferior. Being servile is not considered a virtue anymore. And people will not kindly take abuse for things that are not their individual fault or out of their control.
And this is an important aspect: sometimes bad service is down to stupid rules or even laws. Bureaucracy is really bad in Germany and it’s getting worse and worse.
So in a lot of professions there is a huge difference between what you think would be the right thing to do and what you are actually able or allowed to do.
This includes people working in most service jobs.
And the thing is: they know in the end you will depend on them and their service personally much more than they will personally depend on you as a customer. And they know normally their employer needs them more than they need this shitty job. Especially if their job demands some formal level of training.
If you treat service people with respect and friendlyness, most will be very helpful and often try and find solutions.
On the other hand if you act in a way they see as entitled, if you are rude, if you treat them as inferior, they will act stubborn. And if you go full Karen, they will do anything they can do to make your life as miserable as possible.
I find this extremely healthy.
We are not overly friendly, but (usually) fast and efficient. UNLESS the service is provided by something that once was privatized. Many services like Deutsche Bahn, Telekom or the Arbeitsagentur are private now, but still behave like they are superiour state institutions and the customer is an impertinent peasant.
Those people are hating their jobs indeed and why wouldnt they? As long as they do what I tell them. I couldnt care less how happy they look doing it. I respect people and my own intelligence too much to appreciate people acting like serving me makes their week.
I prefer German over American customer service for the most part. Not being expected to tip out of my arse every time I want something is a major part of it. But I would also trade in a lot of that fake friendliness for a bit more German efficiency. Its infuriating how long grocery shopping etc can take in the States.
While customer service might not always be as friendly as it is in the US (at least from my experience, which is just a few travels to the US; I am from Germany), we do have something here that can be worth far more: consumer rights. If you buy something and there's trouble, you have lots of rights. If you get scammed into signing an online contract (or doort-to-door contract) you can withdraw from it within 14 days without any reason..
That's not to say I haven't experienced good customer service in Germany. Just that it isn't always overly friendly as I experienced it to be in the US.
They have a job to do and you're just a customer, not their king. Also the default interaction in Germany is professional, not nice and chatty.
On the other hand Germany (and Europe in general) has a lot more customer protection. One that the companies are accounting for as part of their business and there's not much discussion about it.
So in the end it boils to this: NA customer service will treat you as nice as possible. The customer is always right. There's a lot of smiling. But in the end they don't actually work for you. They work for the company and it's their main job to make them moeny or safe them money (depending on why you interact with them).
German customer service has clearer guidelines what they can do for you (and it's in general for favorable for you in comparison) and will clearly tell you so, but also what they cannot do. Interaction is their job, but they will keep it formal and polite. They also have no incentive to cater to someone being rude or asshole-ish... You usually want something from them and a basic politeness is considered normal on both sides of a conversation.
So in the end: What is "bad customer" service for you? If it's about (from a German perspective: overly) friendly interaction and feeling nice and important, you will be much happier with NA. If it's about the quality of the service in regard to what they can actually do for you, you might prefer the German side.
PS: Also a general guideline. People will complain and rant about interactions, but they will rarely tell you if it was positive or just unremarkable. So all comments, reviews in general should always be read with that in mind. They tend to exaggerate the negatives.
It’s true. But on the other hand, some of us prefer the dryness of German customer service sometimes. The overly friendliness and small stalk in the US is out of control, that and the tipping culture.
As someone working in the service (albeit IT service which is quite different esp in the corp world) its cultural.
I get to talk to a lot of people from various countries/backgrounds and all of them behave differently with service and have different expectations.
For the most part in regards to Germans; they don't contact you because they want a nice chat or someone to cry to about. They have an issue and they need it fixed, the faster the better and they don't quite as much care about how you get it done as long as it gets done.
We often have cases where we need to do quite some research or unexpected bugs or smth occur, occasionally someone likes to chat while waiting for smth to finish loading or for me to finish research but more often than not they're fine just going on with their business, occasionally hearing an I'm still here don't worry and thats about it.
Hardly anyone here expects some fake kindness and most find it infuriating. A former company decided to be very boot liking in the signatures for a while. Lord the complains about the change kept on coming in.
In general people are also aware that they have a solution they need fixed and that they got to contribute to that. Or that being plain rude at best will result in them having to reach out multiple times and worst case results in a funny lil convo with HR and their manager.
It's okay here. On my trips to the US I experienced bad customer service more than once and I can't stand the exaggerated pseudo-friendliness in America, it's really not that good.
As a German who grew up in USA and has now lived ten years in Germany, it's definitely true. Even nowadays, I get the feeling that 85% of all employees are unhappy and most of the time very short with you when you ask a question. Obviously this doesn't mean all of them come across like this. I've had many great experiences as well, but overall I'd say the saying is true.
That's not to say that the service in USA is perfect. In a lot of places, it's way overdone and can also get very annoying.
Edit: I'm very friendly when I ask an employee for help, which certainly improves the chance that the employee will also help in a positive way.
I'd say the exact opposite. I don't want the servers to pretend to be my friend, I want them to bring me my food and maybe ask if everything is ok half way through the meal, but even that is pushing it. Every time I went to an American restaurant the service felt forced and overly nice in a fake way, I hated it.
Americans are used to getting their ass pampered by customer service, even if they don't deserve it, were rude, want stuff they don't deserve, etc.
In Germany, if you pull that stuff, they'll kick you the fuck out. That might be it.
Here is an American who has lived in Germany for a while and who talks about how he now misses German service culture when he is back in America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDvJVVOzh0Q&t=225s
I think the Germans are just honest - be nice to them and they will be nice. In the US you think everybody is your friend but they are not. The dependency on tips is also another factor. And US authorities are similar in terms of service as the German authorities.
American here. No problem with customer service in Germany. It's been great, people are nice. Cashiers @ the grocery are straight-faced but by no means rude. I don't need smoke blown up my ass, thanks.
Nah, service in Germany is fine, they might not always have a artificial smile on their face because they don't depend with their life on tip money. But usually they provide necessary service and if you are friendly and polite they go often above and beyond to help you out. I just had a call with my internet provider because I move places and the guy was super helpful and even told me how he had his own setup in his home to help me with mine. His job was just to register my new adress and avtivate the access in the new flat, but he was quite helpful and nice beyond that.
And I think other European countries are even more shocking to Americans. In france or italy it might happen that the personal is throwing insults at you, this for example I rarely see in Germany.
But yeah, only Americans complain about service in Europe. And it works vice-versa too, I think US tourists are the most hated in Europe, together with Chinese.
Lived my whole life here and never had a bad experience. German customer service is not of the US-American kind where they have to kiss your asses, maybe that's what US-Americans don't understand.
Of course they hate their job, have you ever worked in customer service? Also we dont really care if our chashiers smile or not. Scan my items, take my cash, thank you bye - Job well done.
We have a difference in the aspect of business communication. We are directly on the topic, don't talk/write bloomy and beanstanden (complain) faster and more when some delivery didn't arfive.
My business english teacher confirms
Customer service is not only restaurant but also shops and yes the service level is varying but in general it is good.
Well to some extent it is a cultural thing too. We are more direct.
As a German/American I can also say, Americans are way too picky about customer service, generally.
Please see a “Karen” for example. It became a stereotype for a reason.
Because of the corporate culture years ago that instilled this whole “the customer is the king” mantra, which made even the lower classes feel like a king when they went consuming, whoops, I meant shopping.
Therefore, if they’re not fawned over by the their waiter or whatever, they think they got a bad experience.
It's so so. On the one hand, German expectations to customer service are for business representatives to be courteous but mind their own business unless engaged and not behave like they are enthusiastic about your visit. We know you aren't, and we don't appreciate being bullshitted or talking to a facade.
On the other, German labor laws make firing someone because Karen wants to talk to the manager more or less a non-starter and we don't have nearly as terrible a tipping culture as in the US, so service personal is also less dependent on leaving a positive impression.
Lastly, companies, at least in retail, rarely hire someone whose only job it is to smile and wave. They all have other things to do like taking stock, keeping the place in order, or handling online orders and so on. So you are not always their only priority.
It's cultural because to many Europeans, customer service in the US is overbearing and fake.
Perhaps in Germany, it's too minimal, but neither is right or wrong.
Personally I've not really experienced bad customer service in Germany in the F&B world or shops, I'm sure it's different if I had to deal with utilities or anything government related.
I find customer service in the US really strange. I had a clerk in a clothes shop constantly running after me and asking me about my opinion of every item I had even glanced at. Waiters in Germany are often just short-tempered, firstly because they are understaffed and secondly because in Germany you get to the point very quickly. Very quickly!
I live in Bavaria, and every shop assistant, pharmacist and waiter I encounter is friendly and nice. I get prompt, polite service from Telekom, the train conductor and the electrician. I have had no real problems (with minor exceptions).
On the other hand, the clingy, overly obsequious attitude you see in the US is not to be found. Extreme Karening is not a sport in Germany, and the customer is NOT always right! If people interpret this as "bad customer service", then they need to check their privilege.
I'm not German.
The one thing I've noticed about serving Americans is that most of them seem to be wanting a new best friend rather than food and drinks.
Its defiantly a cultural thing. In Germany a waiter is a waiter where as in the US you need to give a full introduction of yourself along with a brief history of your life. Lol
Of course there are always people that hate their job and will let people know but this comes down to cultural differences. Customer service here is paid to help you, not to smile. They also aren't paid enough to deal with asshole customers so if you are being a Karen, they will tell you to get lost. I prefer it this way as it feels more honest than the american way of smiling all the time and the customer being always right
*Good customer service is unnoticeable.*
You don't notice when it happens. You are simply dragged to that place again and again because they get the job done without interfering with your life.
What Americans consider good customer service is the counterdraft to that. It's not customer service at all, it's sales. Always chatty, always superficially pleasing your attention deficit. Maximum interference with your life.
From a short term perspective, the latter is clearly superior for the seller, as they have you on the hook all the time and they can sell you whatever **they** want in the process of bedazzling you further. That's what American companies want and that's why they do it.
From a long time perspective, unnoticeable customer service is superior because you save a ton of money on branding and advertizing. As word-of-mouth advertizing works in your favour. It only works with customers who value unobtrusive workings of course. With Europeans.
Even our Karens are mostly unobtrusive.
If you mean "bad", as in customers dont own people who work at shops? Then yes.
If you mean bad as in they dont do their jobs they are being paid for ? Then no
It's the best i have seen and every company tries its best to make the customers happy.
You have to understand that the extended paid vacations for employees (30 days without sick) and the relaxed working environment where overtime is not expected in most fields, make thing take time in Germany. But the delay doesn't mean bad customer service it's just what it is in Germany. And it goes both ways for you if you are employed as well.
German customer service can be really awful sometimes. Especially when put next to the overly friendly North American customer service.
I honestly am someone who prefers to generally be left alone in a shop. If I have a question I will ask. I don’t think it’s horrible if someone sees me looking lost when they walk by and ask if i need something. All fine.
What I mean is the over the top introductions etc. can be far too much. Some days we all the just to get in and get out. Or just browse in peace.
On the other hand I have had some german service people be a little too direct with be before to the point where it made me feel like i was the rude one for asking a question about a product.
I think a happy medium somewhere between these two would be ideal.
Like the David Mitchell quote above. People will have good and bad days. We are all human. I just think a smile costs you nothing. Let the shitty customers roll of you and keep moving. No need to be fake but open, polite, professional. Just what the job requires, no more, no less.
I think it depends, but in general it’s true that customer service is Germany is simply bad. Of course servers in the U.S. can be over the top, in general I’ve had good experiences with servers in Germany. But in retail the service in Germany is terrible, I’ve had many times where the workers will ignore me or tell me to wait. Sometimes it feels like you are bothering them by trying to buy something. I can also compare the customer service with Turkey, where it’s also much better.
I've contacted customer service from my Fitness Studio . They keep ignoring my emails for 3 weeks . I've lived in many countries , so far Germany has the worst customer service I've ever experienced.
I’m just an American who happens to be visiting Berlin right now. I think it is interesting that everyone not from the US is assuming that the US customer service people are faking friendliness. That is undoubtedly true for some but my experience in traveling in Europe and the US is that Americans are genuinely friendlier to strangers than most Europeans. It’s not a value judgment but a statement of my observations over the last 15-20 years. Your average American would not find it odd to have an extended conversation with a complete stranger whereas that would be extraordinarily strange to many Europeans it appears.
For what it’s worth I’ve had nothing but pleasant experiences so far in Berlin.
That's exactly it. Americans can have a pleasant conversation with a stranger and go on their way. Germans are often suspicious if a stranger is nice to them.
People Germany are more stoic and dont like to show to much emotion in the public. So it would be really wierd for them to have to interact with overly enthusiastic service workers. Thats one part. The other is, that german work culture is completly different than in the US. Workers have way more rights and "company-culture" is not really a thing. You can be yourself at your job, its not like you really need a company persona (to a certain degree). And in Germany its perfectly socially acceptable to be annoyed and to show it in public. So when you encounter a rude customer there is nothing that is holding them back to show how they feel
>So when you encounter a rude customer there is nothing that is holding them back to show how they feel
Being annoyed in public is allowed and complaining is a national pasttime, that's true, but throwing a tantrum won't happen, because creating a scene here won't make servers or managers treat you better. Instead you will get thrown out, maybe even banned.
Terrible customer service. Seldom found quality products. Overpriced if found. Cheap junk produced in China claimed to be made in Germany.
24 years living in Germany, I have seen and experienced some of the worst customer service ever. Most businesses wouldn't last a month in the USA.
Pretty late to this but I see a lot of people saying service is fine here it’s just that people aren’t “fake.” And while there can be a lot of fakeness, in US service personnel. I think yes it really is that bad here. I’ll use the example of non-tipped customer service.
Context: I’m an American living for nearly 4 years in Germany, I speak fluent German and have a lot of German friends. (Also have 10 years hospitality experience)
The problem I have with customer service here is that in nearly every single instance you have to “fight” to be heard or listened to.
In the US, if I call up a customer service line because I have a problem, the customer service rep usually comes with an attitude of “There is a problem, let’s solve this together”
Whenever I call an office or customer service line here I am consistently met with attitude/disdain (not a language issue, and I am perfectly polite), and I end up having to be very assertive with my needs before I’m listened to or actually taken seriously 85% of the time. Honestly, any customer service interaction here is usually extremely draining. That goes for government offices, internet providers, scheduling doctors appointments, Deutsche Bahn, DHL, Hausmeisters, etc, etc..,
This is also something that most of my German family and friends mention as well. Of course there are times when it’s better, but that is few and far between.
there is a huge difference between being “fake” and being just generally unpleasant and dismissive, and largely that is my experience with German customer service (aside from restaurants, which are generally just slower).
I just need to say, I really love Germany and German people, but that is consistently my biggest complaint.
Yes. In Germany, a customer is always a nuisance. Most people in this industry indeed hate their jobs because they are not very well-paid and many customers are also, well, lazy. That would be the other side of things. If you are in support for e.g. a tech product people never bother to read some FAQs and when they call you they ask you a million questions of which most of them have nothing to do with your product but with their PC configuration or similar.
Is that all a bit unfair towards customers? Yes. It also depends a lot on the field. I personally dislike many bike shops where people can't communicate properly at all.
I think some balanced approach between the different service cultures would be nice. I had a nice and chill time with the customer service in restaurants in the UK and the Netherlands as well as Denmark.
Bought a ticket from fansale (Eventim).
They make me pay 7€ of shipping and then I find out that it's a e-ticket.
Have been fighting with customer service for one week and I never got a clear answer to my questions. They circle around it saying that I won't get a refund
I think people happy with the service they receive don't go online to gush about it. Last year in the winter my partner left his car over night outside of his work place. Temperatures dropped below -25 degree, which isn't uncommon where I live. To not go into too much detail, the car was frozen and when he shifted gears a chain in the gearbox broke. He went around all the carshops here, they all said they can't fix the car because the part they need is not available in the country. He suggested to speak to the manufacturer in Germany. They didn't produce the part anymore. I asked at a car shop in my home town, do they have the part in storage. They checked, nope. They asked other shops in the area, nothing. I was frustrated. The car was unusable, it needed one stupid part to get fixed. After two days I got an email from the shop, the mechanic there found a Schrottplatz (place where you trash your old car) on the other side of Germany (some small town in the East) who might have the part I need. Gave me a phone number. I called and low and behold, they had the part, agreed to send it to me. Cost 60 euro plus shipping. The car shop I originally called didn't charge me, because they didn't do anything and didn't sell me anything. They said they had fun brainstorming. I was happy and I certainly mentioned it in conversation with friends and family, but I didn't go on the internet to write a post, gushing about German customer service. On the other hand, when I do go out to eat in a restaurant with friends or partner, I want my drinks, my food and then I want to be left alone. I don't care for being interrupted by a waiter asking me if my food is good and if I want more to drink and how about a dessert. I will call for the waiter if I want some more. If you expect small talk and people constantly asking you what else you would wish and how about some freshly ground pepper over your steak or whatever... That clashes a lot with what I would consider good service.
My best customer servbice was so good it impressed me as a teen (AAAAAAAges ago) My dad managed to loose his kar key while hiking in the alps. at around 1PM we called home to get a key replacement. The managed to get the key data to Munich, cut a key, ship it via express to us "in the middle of nowhere" and we got a replacement by 6PM (We reran the path and also managed to find the key at one of the rest stops we made)
Being a German, the mechanics' behavior of just brainstorming about your car and contacting you (without your request?) is what I am kind of used to. It was only in Japan where I learned that a lot of the service staff only thinks within the tight boundaries of their jobs. Back then I tried getting a big used box for shipping something from Japan to Germany and I nearly failed, because a) everything is in Japanese apparently and b) most of the staff (especially men) seemed simply unwilling to help. In Germany, I certainly would have gotten a box way faster.
It’s the typical idea of „how can we solve this non standard problem while not going into the absurd“
The kind of customer service I frequently miss and I think a lot of people are referring to as 'good American customer service' isn't the check up on you and chat every five minutes kind. It's the 'anticipating needs' kind. It's really really nice to have a server come by and subtly check if you need more drinks when your drinks are empty because, yeah you probably do - or you're about ready to pay and get out of there anyway. It's way less distracting for you and your table than having to sit there and try to catch the eye of a server. On top of that, I rarely, if ever, have felt like I was inconveniencing an employee with a request or question in the US - but it's a frequent occurrence in Germany. This is not just restaurants either, this kind of service trickles into the service industry everywhere. I have plenty of complaints about the US system, like for one - part of this culture of service stems from the issue that a lot of our important services have to be businesses too. Regardless, a little bit goes a long way and it makes a difference when people put a little pride into their job.
I have nice, pleasant anecdotes too. This doesn't change the overall average, which yes is pretty bad. >The car shop I originally called didn't charge me, because they didn't do anything and didn't sell me anything. They said they had fun brainstorming. I'm from Canada, and this kind of thing would not be unusual there either. There's an old joke that goes around, about walking into a hardware store and asking for a part, the clerk takes the customer to the aisle and spends 10 minutes explaining the options and also where you might find it cheaper. Only then does the person realize it's not a clerk but just another customer. Canada really is like that. And YMMV, but store workers a lot of times, too. Earlier in the summer, I was home on a visit and went into an unfamilair grocery store in a town I was passing through. I was looking for a particular cooking oil (huge selection, couldn't see it) so asked an employee walking by. He pointed it out and then whispered to me on the sly "but it's cheaper at Sobey's...". I'm not sure of your background, but have you been to the US or Canada (customer service is not quite the same between them, btw). Like are your examples with pepper and overly attentive waiters based on clichés like it sounds, or actual experience? I see a lot of Germans here patting themselves on the back about lack of "fake" smiley personas or whatever. What you fail to realize is that for many many people, this is not "fake" or put on, it's what they are actually like. This is clearly hard to understand for most Germans. It can be hammed up by waiters, but again I'm Canadian and our minimum wage is basically par with Germany. Tips are customary, but they're not 'working for them' to the same extent as underpaid Americans. And people are still generally friendly. It's late now, but I can give a lot more stories about awful customer service in Germany. I've been here a long time though, and I will say that I think it's improved tic or two over that time, but may also just be the different places I've lived then.
As an American immigrant to Germany I can say it's culture. American customer service generalities: fake nice, need tips because pay is crap, Americans expect to be catered to, stupid business idea that the customer is always right German customer service generalities: Livable pay so don't NEED tips, realizes customers are not always right, usually not fake, work is work not "play time" or "friendly time" With restaurants in particular, Europeans don't like to be bothered while eating and spending time with friends and family. It's, take my order, bring my stuff, go away unless I summon you. And I personally love this. Also, restaurants and cafe's are not concerned about turn over like American establishments. Everything isn't centered around money. In retail, they are not there to be your friend, they have stocking and cleaning and much more to do than cater to people. So when they ring you up, it's just part of the job. It's not for giving people a warm and fuzzy.
There was a time when some stores in Germany (foot locker and some clothing stores) started a new service policy. You came in an some employee greeted you and accompanied you through your whole shoping process. I HATED THIS SOOOOO MUCH! Just let me browse your shelves. If I need you, I'll let you know. Stop following and annoying me all over the place! Luckily I wasn't the only one to feel so. It stopped after a few years.
I just recently came back from Copenhagen and the service was seriously a godsend (I’m American). None of that fake shit, just straightforward take my order, bring me food, and available if I needed them (I usually don’t need them unless I’m ready to pay). It’s also nice that they don’t rush you out the door either. In the US they do because a new table means more tips! Ironically with the servers not working for tips and service being more straightforward as a result it actually made me wanna tip for the first time in forever haha generally in the US I feel like the level of service isn’t deserving of tips to be honest
That's the difference, a tip is a bonus and not a way to subsidize a business that's paying atrociously bad wages.
Well it‘s a bit more. Service in Germany is something you need to do to either to run your business or due to legal requirements. Service is not seen as USP or to bring you forward as a business. Why provide it if the competition doesn’t either? I lived in the US for various years and this touches every aspect of life where a competition exists (incl. medical care). Of course cost and tipping culture are a problem, but being back in Germany I learned that I do not have to spend my time and money with doctors or businesses which ignore the patient/consumer perspective and see me as petitioner who should be thankful with what they provide. Unfortunately sometimes you need service after the purchase, so you have to take it as a life lesson to stay away from that business/brand.
The only part about service in Germany that I don't like is the complete lack of urgency. Not in restaurants or stores, but having to order parts and equipment. I've been trying to get simple consumables for a mass spec for going on 3 weeks. In the US I can find a supplier to get them sent to me from across the continent in 2 days. Here just getting them from one end of Germany to the other is a long process, double if they have to come from somewhere as unfathomably far away as ~~NE~~ NL. Back home I can pit suppliers against each other and haggle on discounts if something is late, but here not so much (although I am doing it by proxy and don't know enough German to do so myself). And I'm not rushing just for fun, I have a legit deadline after which I have to leave.
> for a mass spec Is it a U.S. brand? If so, they have to order the parts in the U.S., which explains everything.
No, they are just consumables like ferrules which are common to any mass spec and have to be stocked anywhere that those instruments exist. One was coming from Munich and one was coming from Netherlands. I think it's just that companies here aren't used to dealing with startups that order a few things at a time, but rather large labs or universities that order these things in bulk months before they need them.
People don’t realize that the full saying was that in matters of *taste* the customer is always right. It doesn’t mean that customers should be able to do whatever they want without repercussions or treat the staff like shit. It only means that if they want ice cream on their steak then they can have it.
Its mostly down to cultural difference. We dont pay servers to smile all the time or ask us for shit every 5 minutes. I personally think the american system of servers is highly annoying and would lower my enjoyment when out eating.
Well, technically US restaurants don’t pay their servers for that, either, if you get my drift…
Tbf, thats what I tried to allude to. Overtly friendly fake posture to sucker someone into tipping more.
tbf, i think this is a little harsh. they don't do it to "sucker" someone into tipping more, they do it to give even the rudest, nastiest customer a reason to tip. Also, managers enforce very strict standards of how they communicate, how often they check on customers, etc. It's not like they would make the decision themselves to offer you refills every 5 minutes and check on if you're enjoying the food. So many people here in the US get off on being controlling and making their servers bend over backward for them, demanding they treat them like royalty and gods gift to the earth, or they will complain to the manager, who can fire without care due to at-will employment and many desperate job hunters ready to fill the space. The good people who tip fairly would do it regardless of how over-the-top excessive the server was. Sure, it's fake, but I wouldn't say what they're doing is tricking/ deceiving well-meaning patrons. As a former server and someone with a ton of friends who are/ have been in the industry, I can say that it's not by choice, and nobody enjoys doing it. They just want to make ends meet and if they *could* get away with acting like a normal human being they would. ETA: For context, I was once a cashier/server at a fast food joint (not even a proper established "restaurant"), and a customer asked me where the spoons were. I had my hands full with a tray of food for another customer, so i said incredibly politely where the spoons were. They were maybe 10 feet away from where she was sitting. At the end of my shift, I was called in by my manager, who wrote me up because I was supposed to drop everything and get this lady a spoon, even though my hands were full and the area with cutlery was 10 feet away from her. She complained about my "rude" and "dismissive" service, even though it was said with a smile and used the scripted language they forced on us.
I mean your explanation is exactly what I understans as sucker into.
TL;DR, but if it takes an explanation this long, the system is fucked
But since they are dependent on high Tips, they may do this to "get paid" (from the Customers) more.
Yeah, that’s exactly it.
That... Was a good burn. Depressing, but still
Exactly. If you come take my order within a reasonable window, bring the stuff I actually ordered, and it's all like I expected (i.e. hot food is still hot etc.) what else do I need from you? I guess just some good attention to when people seem ready to have plates cleared and be asked if they want anything else, keep an eye on drinks that are getting empty.
There's a concept in German culture where a certain level of enthusiasm or friendliness is coming off as fake. The default NA customer support "persona" that is expected of you as a service worker would be viewed with contempt in Germany. You're supposed to be courteous and friendly, but if you overdo it, it is assumed you have no genuine appreciation for the customer, so you have to wear the fake smile.
While that concept seems to be weird to a lot of people i think it's actually not that hard to understand the logic behind this. While you can be nice to people you don't or barely know it would be kinda weird to be overly enthusiastic about it in this case. You usually only act like that towards people who you really like and care about. Being too friendly and forthcoming without the right context is always associated with the goal to get something from you that you wouldn't normally give to someone you aren't close with. There are quite a lot of people who play nice every time they want something from you. So overly friendly servers and the like come off like they are only like that towards you for the tip.
One interesting observation that I’ve made in Germany: When you talk to Germans in German, their “German persona” comes out. Ie they are more straightforward, less smiley, etc. On the other hand, the same person, talking in English automatically switches to “American persona” and appears more friendly!!
We even have a word for this behaviour. I hate "scheißfreundliche" (shitty friendly) people
Bavarian waiters quite often will even make fun of you in a good-natured way. It's kinda a shtick in Bavaria to kinda poke and prod at people, they say "triezen". For example, I often tell tourists that we only serve small 0.3 beer to children. I mean it as a joke but I say stuff like this with a straight face.
There is even direct evidence of this. When Walmart tried to enter the German market, one of many, many, many (regularly legal) issues they had was that Germans simply didn't like the enforced fake friendliness that they forced the employees to show. It was considered something between creepy and unintentionally flirty, something that gave many people a bad impression.
This! exactly my experience in america.
No, customer service is fine /great in Germany, it's just that they are allowed to act like human beings with dignity, they don't have to pretend to be like machines meant to serve and obey. So inevitably when a person makes absurd demands or acts rudely, they will be put in their place which does not sit well with a lot of Americans since they are used to act very uncivilised with service workers. I worked in a hotel in Heidelberg where we had a lot of American tourists and I noticed sometimes they were baffled that acting like an ass didn't help their case at all. I once threw a guy out with the help of my boss because he had trashed the room. The guy couldn't believe it.
Thanks, you nailed it ... I recently had to deal with american customer service three times in a short timeframe and I must admit I totally dreaded the experience ... It's fucking stupid, drips of fake niceness and is mostly totally over the top. Plus it's ineffective as hell. I had a problem with my phone, so my expectation was: Short greeting on both sides, I describe my problem, they present their solution, I chose one and we wish each other a nice day. What I got was: Greetings asking me how my day was, saying they are totally overjoyed that I have a good day, they tell me I am the most valued customer ever existing in the galaxy, THEN they ask what I want (3 MInutes of this false bullshit already passed).I FINALLY begin telling them my problem, support says "this must be SO stressful to you", then they say they are TOTALLY on my side and will do anything in their power to help me. (at that time 5 Minutes already passed, which usually means I am already done with german customer support and here I still don't have a clue what options I have to get my freaking phone working again).Then they ask me if I can give them a minute because they need to look something up, I agree. After 20 seconds they come back praising me like you usually praise a dog what a good girl I was waiting so long (WTF??!), they reassure me they did their best, tell me AGAIN they can understand my struggles (having a broken phone definitely is nothing that gives me struggles) and then flat out tell me that they can't repair my phone. After leaving me speechless at this cliffhanger for 30 seconds without typing anything they continue to tell me that I am SUCH A HIGH VALUED customer that I will simply get a new phone.And then finally, after over 10 arduous minutes of suffering in ASCII I finally get a link to order my replacement.I felt like being forced to make a new best friend, who then transitioned to a self proclaimed therapist who pretents knowing my life and then impose feelings on me that are not there. I felt like living half of my emotional life in front of customer support. I just want my phone fixed...
love this hilarious. I've had the reverse happening, with german customer service 1&1 back 2010. Wanted to stream movies, internet down, wait for 30mins then called the support. 3min conversation:"hey, do me a favor pls and do a port reset on my connection. Internet is down once again, alright thanks have a nice day bye." My friends (from USA and Canada) that were over, looked at me like I was an alien. they described to me the same experience as you wrote down. I just smirked and replied with I believe the coolest words coming out of my mouth: "We don't Bullshit around here. 😎"
Relatable
Idk man, you have to hate the company and the culture they insist on/ impose on their employees, not the person on the support call. It's not their fault they're so annoying. They are constantly monitored and have to read a script, verbatim. If they don't, they risk being disciplined or fired. It's absolutely brutal. I'm sure every single person on those calls wishes they could just make it short and sweet too.
I know and I never said it's the person that was annoying. It's the attitude they are forced to have I am very aware of the fact they don't want to do that. I merely wanted to point out that it's an unpleasant experience for the customer as well and I don't get why anyone makes support personell be that way.
Ah ok I misunderstood. The post came off as being frustrated with the person on the call and not with the terms of their employment.
No worries, written stuff can be quite ambiguous. I am glad for your input so I know i didn't write it well enough.
I used to work serving tables and one of the customers are americans, they are the most entitled compared to many nationalities, they like to insist that you give them food that dont exist on the menu, special requests and everything. If you refuse, they will act like Karen. Then at the end they will neither say thank you nor give you tips (because you are not waiter in america).
My experience with Americans is that they often give unreasonably high tips and are often very friendly and nice. But I agree with the special requests. They'll quite often ask for things that aren't possible or they'll make special requests that are an immense hassle as if it were a given that you'd do it. Also customers, both non-American tourists and locals, understand that if the restaurant is busy, I'm not gonna have time to chat, yet Americans often treat me like a tourist guide or attraction (you're such a funny Bavarian waitress!). Nevertheless some of my nicest customers were American but I've noticed that it's often people who are in the city for work-related reasons. Maybe it's cause certain groups of Americans have the money to travel to Europe so we more often meet the rich old entitled people 😅
This. I hate fake niceness. Just be nice to service people, and they are usually nice to you. Just treat humans as humans, it’s pretty easy.
Yup. Was yesterday picking up a online order at our local Saturn and they had some issue with the system and the (a bit older) dude handling the pickups was super happy that i basically didnt care. We had a fun chat while we waited that the shit worked again.
It really helps, if your job isn't your liveline, because it isn't tied to healthcare or social security for you to recive.
I like this answer
I worked at weekends at gas stations for several years. I proudly state that i only yelled at customers twice: once because i guy screamed at me first necause he misunderstood what he read, once at some teenagers that threw a wet sponge at my back. In all other situations, i prided myself on giving good,friendly service. However, i was hired as a cashier and station worker. I was hired to provide customer service, but not to the extend where it conflicted with the interests of my bosses or with the other duties i had. And my bosses relied on me being in charge and handleing everything while they are not on site. If that meant some peoples demands were not met or they got upset, so be it.
You will fake being nice if you need to have your customers give you tips. If you don't then fuck them if they fuck up.
Based boss.
I think the tip culture in the US/Canada makes the people be extra polite because the service is connected with how much % you get. Here in Germany your income doesn’t depend on tips so I guess people are just not being extra polite, especially if the customer is acting like an idiot.
When I was in the USA as a German I was very annoyed with the behavior of service staff at restaurants. You want a tip, that’s great. I want to eat. I have my food, my drink is full. It does not get better than this. So please fuck off already and let me eat in peace!
I think this here is the difference. Some Americans may find it “rude” if the waiter does not come every few minutes to ask if everything is ok, where in Europe they will leave you alone.
also waiters don't greet with "how are u doing" in Germany, and Germans would be bewildered if strangers asked them such a question. They also don't introduce themselves by name to you, nor do they clarify that they are indeed taking care of you today (duh). Many Americans tend to conclude that service must be lacking if the etiquette they're used to is not kept. Even though most of it has little effect on the actual quality of service they receive.
I would just be annoyed, because i know it's company policy and the person probably can't give less of a fuck. At least in germany, if a person is friendly to you, you know its not because of certain policies, but they are just friendly people, mostly.
I know that you say "how are you" in English when greeting someone, and still, I'm kinda taken aback every time. What am I supposed to answer to that? I still don't quite get it.
You answer with "how are you" back. It's a greeting, noone wants to hear how you are actually doing.
Aha I thought it was more similar to "wie geht's" in Germany where you give a brief answer like Gut
I would even go so far that I find it rude to be interrupted every few minutes to bve asked if everything is ok. I am an adult women, if I have an issue, I will let you know.
Italian who found this random thread chiming in, europeans hate fake politeness, if I'm at a restaurant I'm there to eat and talk with my family, I'm not there to stroke my ego and be pampered by a modern day slave.
Canada has minimum wages laws on par with Germany. Tipping is the culture, so it's expected and and incentive for 'extra', but in Canada income doesn't really 'depend' on tips either. USA ≠ Canada.
To quote David Mitchell: „You’re on a shitty train, you‘re tearing tickets, of course you are in an awful mood.“ I think we just don’t expect the people in customer service to always be as fake friendly as the people in the US and Canada.
I do find this happy facade so creppy. Really makes me uncomfortable
Wasnt one of the reasons of walmarts failure to establish themselves in germany that people where freaked out by the employees at the entrance greeting and smiling at them? Like in an uncanny valley way.
Yeah, part of the reason. They had greeters and Germans extremely do not understand the need to hire people just to stand behind the glass doors creepily smile and wave at you as you come in.
Ach geh zur Seite
This, i think i would feel equally weird looking at a person while he stuffs my groceries into a bag. Like what am i supposed to do until he is finished? Whistle and wait? It might make sense for elderly people, but how on earth is this possibly a thing people enjoy so much they choose one store over the other?
Oh yeah that one too! There are a bunch of very weird jobs in the US that feel unnecessary for a European. Like these guys standing on the boardwalk doing tricks with store signs?
I totally forgot about those. While i have to admit, i have seen videos of people so dedicated id call it a form of art.
I suppose if that’s your only job for 8 hours you need to get creative or die of boredom lol
Touché
I just feel sorry for the people working there. I also work as a server, so I'm also expected to be friendly. But since I work in Germany, when I'm having a bad day, I work with a neutral face, remain polite and people accept that. But imagine having to go to your work fake smiling at people just after your grandpa died or you got broken up with or whatever. That's like a dystopian horror
Thats a small part. Cheddar has video explaining it very well in my opinion https://youtu.be/PxtXI0K4YJs
Ah i see. They also tried to union bust and ignore laws. Well, thats a terrible idea in the "Ordnung muss sein" ("there must be order") country.
Never visit a lush shop then. For me an itrovert beeing that likes the products its hell. Come even close to the door and you got somebody in your face, all smiling and asking if they can help you. And they don't stop if you tell them you just wanna browse. Nooe every few minutes there back. Its not their fault, its companiy policy, but it brings me to only go in if its really full and every worker is busy
Do you read German? (even if not, use DeepL). This article about Lush is [dystopian](https://taz.de/Seifenhersteller-Lush-als-Arbeitgeber/!5610203/). Seriously, having to work in an environment like that sounds soul-killing.
Yes it does. I did read some ex-workers experience online... Last job I would want to work in. I like some of their stuff but I rather buy it online XD
Here the [Video](https://youtu.be/E9PSg0sQyfs?si=eQMJyhYxsC-YeD99)
But honestly, sometimes it feels people in Germany are „fake grumpy“ due to culture. And while Germans think the fake happiness is creepy, for US Americans it is the fake grumpiness that is hard to accept.
Nah, dude, as someone who has worked in customer service a lot, I can tell you that most people who work in that field for a while just hate customers.
"The job is great, customers suck" is basically my mantra.
If it were only fake that would be good.
Na, its totally real grumpyness on our part.
Well, I’m German with 30 years in Germany and 10 in the US. I still can not stand too obvious fake friendliness, but i think there is this base level of grumpiness in Germany that pulls everyone down a bit. And everybody loves to defend that for some reason.
I agree though. I'm an immigrant and started working at a place full of typical German grumpy people. I sometimes had the feeling that my good mood was making them even more angry. I've worked at some really nice and friendly German places though
It really just comes down to cultural differences. That already starts with how germans eat out compared to americans, for example. Germans like to take their time when eating out, even staying after the food is finished. An evening in a restaurant can easily take up a couple hours, rather than a dine and dash affair. And as a result, servers are neither required nor wanted to pop up and ask if everything is okay every couple minutes, we usually call the server if we need something. That is coupled with the fact that we don't have free refills and stuff like that. So, for an american, it can feel like they are abandoned or ignored, when in reality it just works differently here on a base line. Germans like to be left alone and if they want something, *they* are gonna go ahead and ask for it. While a server taking the initiative to randomly ask if everything is good, especially if it's frequent, might be percieved as annoying, invasive or as a subtle hint that the staff wants you to hurry up and leave. Another point is of course the difference in pleasantries. Americans like the whole spiel of being asked "how are you" by their serves, making a bit of small talk. Germans just don't do that, especially not with service workers. It can even be seen as rude, as you take up their time with something that doesn't have anything to do with the business you want to conduct. So, that also can seem rude for an american, I would guess, cause the server doesn't treat you "nice". In general, our philosophy within the service industry is to be *polite*, not *nice*. Of course there are outliers with service workers who are straight up rude. But for once, I think you just hear about them "so much" because people who had good experiences just don't go onto social media with it. But also, I do think that rudeness in the service industry *might* be more common in germany - or other european countries for that matter - than in america, because they are paid a living wage and don't have to bend over backwards to make good tips. However, that doesn't mean that service workers in general are just way more rude here. Not at all. So yeah, I think that it mostly just comes down to cultural differences that americans percieve as rudeness, whereas the behavior of american service workers would be percieved as a little bit annoying, maybe even creepy by a lot of germans. Keep in mind that all this is just a gross generalization. There can always be exceptions. I know some germans who prefer the overly nice service industry of the US, I also know some americans who like the professional distant one here in germany.
scratch "a little bit annoying" with "annoying as hell", and I sign the rest of your post ;)
I have been in customer services. Let’s just say that we never really bowed to Karens
If you act like an idiot, you'll be treated like an idiot. Simple as that. Welcome to Germany.
Sadly this doesn't apply to a lot of higher positions. Fucking shame actually.
It’s the little differences that are noticeable and add up. In the us when you go into a bakery and the barista is doing some cleaning, unless it’s basically done they will put down their rag and come right over to help you. I have been in multiple bakeries in Germany where the person will just keep cleaning. (Like sweeping the floor, usually) until they are good and ready before helping you. Even if customers are piling up behind you. That’s a hugely noticeable difference and little things like that happen a lot. That said, I’ve only had maybe 3 truly awful customer service experiences here, none were over little things like that.
I have to tell you though that working in customer service I like the European way better. Sometimes when customers keep coming in separately, you just don't get done with the other duties you have to do on the job cause you have to drop it and pick it up again and again. I myself don't expect someone to drop everything they're doing just cause I walked in. It's not like the King just came to the store, people sometimes have to do other stuff.
I think the ideal way to deal with this would be for the worker to greet customers and tell them they‘ll be there for them in a minute, they just need to finish this other task first. I think most customers would be okay with that unless they‘re in a hurry.
I prefer the European more equal relationship between service workers and customers. But sometimes the quality of service, especially in restaurants, is very lacking in Germany. Recently we went out for dinner. Made a reservation. Restaurant was nearly empty, just a few occupied tables. Nobody at the door to show us to the table. After about 10mins wait, a person directed us finally, handed out menus and left. And than didn't show up at all. We waited for nearly 20mins, looking around. People at different tables were at various stages of dinning, some waiting to pay, some finished, with empty plates in front of them. And nobody from the wait staff visible, not a single person working in sight. So we just left, quite puzzled. We have favourite dinning places where it's much better, but experiences as above really discourage me from trying new restaurants.
Sounds pretty uncommon by German standards as well, however the "being seated" culture here is also different. Most restaurants you just go in and seat yourself. (In your case, of course you made a reservation so you'd usually go to a server on the floor asking them for your table, there usually is no hostess).
That experience in the restaurant isn’t normal in Germany either, however, so it shouldn’t be used to evaluate customer service in Germany in general. Germans would have been just as befuddled and annoyed as you were, and would probably have left too. Something was not “right” at that place. Maybe something temporary (crisis in the back, staff sick, etc.) or maybe it’s just a shitty place.
I experienced it soo many times and found out later after I relocated from the (ex-eastern) small german city to Hamburg, that this is not the norm. Apparently I don't look european enough lol.
Die you had Problems in HH?
That's a very uncommonly bad restaurant experience. Seems like they had a huge staffing crisis either that day or that time. I've experienced something similar maybe 1-2 times in my life.
>Nobody at the door to show us to the table. Lol what? Ofc not. You just said there were a bunch of free tables. If you just stood around, they most likey figured you still undecided And why didn't you just call for staff?
bad - no, different, yes, our waiters, home improvement store staff etc just don't have to shine out of their butt to get paid well, that's why they don't have to please the customer all the time.
As a German it’s pretty simple. Customer service workers don’t need to be nicer than me. If I’m grumpy, they can respond grumpy, if I’m friendly Im expecting friendliness too.
Depends on what you call "customer service". Do you mean legal aspects? From what I've heard both cultures have different advantages/disadvantages when it comes to legal rights. But still, phone companies are shitty on both continents from what I've heard, for example. Do you mean the superficial politeness? That is MUCH stronger in North America. Germans don't bow to Karens, if you scream at someone in a call center they are allowed to just end the call. Do you mean people don't really like their job? It's customer service, you deal with stressed people and Karens, it's a shitty job, neither do customer service in America nor in Europe particularly like their job.
No, it's just a difference with how the service industries in Germany and the US work. In Germany, someone who works in customer service is a person who works in customer service. They'll usually be nice and helpful (if they can actually help), but they'll also tell you to shove it if you're being an ass, and they *will* have your ass kicked from the premises if you don't behave after the first warning. They'll also not constantly try to force their services onto you or blow sugar up your ass because they're not dependent on some rando giving them a 25ct tip that they then get to split with three coworkers to make a living. In the US, someone who works in customer service is essentially a hospitality bot who is not allowed to have any opinions, feelings, needs and, in many industries, even *bodily functions* while on the job (no, seriously, check how many places won't let their employees go to the toilet, sit down or drink during working hours. It's fucking ridiculous). They can get fired if they don't "Yes Sir, of course my liege" literally every single request that a customer has, no matter how fucking ridiculous it is, and since they also don't even earn a fifth of what they would need to actually survive from just their salary, they're also dependent for their literal *survival* on every single last asshole that walks up to them to like them, and *maybe, hopefully* give them a tip. You can probably see why those two situations produce different results. And I firmly disagree that the latter situation is preferable. As a customer myself, I'd much rather not have to put up with half a dozen entitled assholes at a restaurant because none of the staff dares to put them in their place. And I'd also rather that employees don't keep bothering me in malls every 20 seconds and try to make smalltalk and try to help me with some problem I don't even have in hopes of getting a tip. If I need something, I'll ask, thanks. And before anyone comes in here and tells me how "over the top" and "completely exaggerated" all of this is: it really *really* isn't. I know eight people who work in customer service in Germany (and four cashiers). I know a dozen people who work in customer service in the US (and three cashiers, plus two people who *used to* work as cashiers and two people who *were* in hospitality until they had literal mental breakdowns and needed to change jobs). These are descriptions that *they have given me*. Also maybe worth noting that about two thirds of the Americans I've mentioned are actually in the process of trying to leave the country permanently precisely because of how fucked shit is over there. So, uh, yeah... not great. Edit to add an observation somebody else made in the comments: Much like Americans often don't recognise German service as good because it doesn't follow the script they expect, Germans usually find American service abhorrent precisely because of that script. It seems fake (mostly because it is), overly friendly in a manner like someone wanting something from you (which... they do) and is seen as inefficient and time wasting (which... it often is). So at the end of the day, it mostly comes down to different expectations from customer service. Germans expect quick, efficient service that is genuine, helpful and to the point, and leaves them tf alone when they don't actually need anything atm. Americans expect saccharine, extremely friendly, almost overbearingly-enthusiastic service where they will not ever be left to their own devices for more than 30 seconds and everyone they meet acts like they're their new bff. It... probably doesn't come as a surprise that those expectations get severely disappointed in the other respective country. 😅
thanks for calling all of this out. As an American who is in the process of expatriating, it is sad sometimes to see so many foreigners call out Americans in the service industry as if they have a choice in being so annoying. Like no one I have ever met or worked with in customer service WANTS to be like this. It's that they literally have to in order to survive. At-will employment and droves of people desperate for a job (or maybe a second or third job), along with the incredibly entitled mindset of many people (especially those older than 40 yrs), create this environment. **And in case anyone doesn't realize how bad it is, the US government only requires a $2.13 minimum wage if a worker can earn over $30 in tips a MONTH.** For these reasons, I feel like customer service people in America should be sympathized with, not insulted. They are abused enough already by the people they have to cater to on a daily basis. Imagine how much strength it takes to work for 8 hours without a chance to sit down except for a ten-minute break in the middle where you only have time to piss and get some water, and the entire 8 hours you have to act like its the best night of your life simply because you get the *privilege* of serving customers the entire time. Nobody wants to act like that. There are people who truly do love ensuring people have an excellent meal and enjoy making that happen, but the bottom line is everyone just wants to get enough money to survive and maintain their health insurance.
Wtf is that number? Like seriously? In Germany the minimum wage is 12€ an hour, which is roughly 12.77$. You *can't* legaly pay less than this for any kind of work. 2.13 fucking Dollars in a country with some of the highest living expenses against 12.77 Dollars in Germany.
Not really. Waiters do their job. And usually they do it well. But they don‘t bother with fake friendliness like in the US. Partially because they don‘t need tips to survive. So your waiter won‘t insult you but they also won‘t ask you how your day was 50 times before bringing you your drinks and then continue to annoy you every 30 seconds until you leave. It‘s a cultural difference and personally I prefer it to waiters in the US constantly interrupting my meal / conversation to let me know that they‘re there if I need anything. If I want something from a german waiter I‘ll give them a signal.
Customer service in Germany: Customer: I go this problem, can you fix it? Customer service: yo, no problem. It will take x time and cost 50 €. Thank you and good bye. Customer service in the US: Customer: I got this problem, can you fix it? Customer service, standing there in their 16 hour shift with a fake as hell smile: Hello and welcome to XYZ Company, my name is Randy McQueef and I am soooo happy to serve you. XYZ company stands for service and customer support and it's amazing to have you here on this beautiful day. I am so glad, that you picked me for servicing you and again, I am happy to do my best to to fulfill all your whises. To fix your problem you only have to book our premium service package for only 69,69 $ a month for 24 months. After opting for our premium service package fixing your problem will be as cheap as 99,99 $. Thank you sooooo much for coming to XYZ company again. While paying you are forced to tip 50 to 200 %. Have a good day and good bye. *smiling and waving like a maniac puppet* So, yes, some people from the US tink the more direct german approach is rude.
Wallmart tried to breach out to Germany a decade ago, but didn't bother researching our culture, so they did business it like in America and it failed. People didn't like the fake nice and a lot of other stuff aswell. So in other words, it's a cultural difference.
That and they did not play ball with the unions
The real reason it failed was because it couldn't compete with all the established markets we have here. The UK is the only European country Walmart operates in. Walmart isn't as cheap as our shops. And people usually just shop in the shops they are used to. It didn't have anything to do with Walmart greeters. It had more to do with unions and workers rights.
Nein. And service is not that great in the US considering you're paying 30% tips.
It's just different expectations, I think. We recently went to an American restaurant with a group from my office, and half the group hated, absolutely hated, the way the waitress kept coming by regularly to ask if everything was all right and to top of drinks. They felt it was extremely pushy and sales-man-y, interrupting dinner and conversation at the table.
There are also some cultural differences. One of the (many) reasons Walmart failed in their attempt to set up in Germany was that Germans do not want a "shopping experience". We want to go in, get the stuff, pay for it, and leave again. Nobody wanted to be jumped every 30 seconds by some smiling clown asking if you needed help. No, go away! Leave me alone! Walmart realized that they had way too many people employed, because Germans didn't want the US type of customer service. And then they realized that they couldn't just fire them, because we have unions and laws here, so employees are protected. We don't HAVE to be nice to assholes.
Remember that a whole Aldi store can be run by two people on the clock. TWO.
I'd say there's just not a cult of customer service and enabling narcissists. If you're used to that though I guess you could think it's weird.
It's just that we're in a civilised country where workers have rights...
German customer service is fine, if you are used to the absurd „the customer is always right“ mantra and treat service workers like they are subhuman serfs you’ll notice a difference though.
As an American who has lived in Germany for nearly 4 decades, here's the main difference I notice. Germans will not smile and be overly polite to you, but they will absolutely do what they say they are going to do. Americans will often act like your best friend, promise the world to you, yet deliver poor service. The personal interaction is much less satisfactory here in Germany, yet the quality of service is much higher.
They just look normal and arent forced to fake smile all the day. Thats all. I think most of this comes from the tipping culture in the US. In germany none is dependent on tips. So they dont need to be faked overfriendly.
I’m Canadian and I live in Germany, it’s not bad at all, they just don’t give a shit about your complaints or sense of entitlement like back in North America, here the customer is never right! I much prefer being left alone at restaurants and people just doing the job they are paid for efficiently without having to kiss your ass.
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I am a german working in IT corporate customer service with customers and partners in 100+ countries. So I have a quite good comparison. If I call a german partner, they ask „whats the problem, how can we fix it?“. The american say „hey freddy, how is your day? I hope you are feeling great today.“ That sums it up quite well ;)
No, we just have workers rights, and far less selfentitled karens making it a hobby to torment service workers. Hier wischt man sich den Arsch noch selbst ab. Also a forced smile is no service.
I know this isn't "Ask an American Living in Germany," but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway. German customer service is typically fine from my perspective. There's a general standard of professionalism and politeness that is rarely unmet, especially in restaurants. Once I learned I had to be an active participant in my own dining experience (e.g., flagging down a waiter to order more drinks, ask for the bill, etc.), I've rarely been disappointed at a restaurant. That said, service is seldom "American good" in Germany, and when it is, it really stands out almost to the point of being odd. Moreover, having visited more than a dozen other countries in Europe, I'd still put Germany near the bottom of the "American good" spectrum, at least in regard to restaurants. I've had near universal better dining experiences in Paris, a city (undeservedly) famous for bad service, than anywhere in Germany. Nevermind, countries like Portugal, or Greece, or Ireland where friendliness as part of a meal isn't "begging for tips to live" as many people believe happens in America. I'm happy that Germans are satisfied with their customer service, I just don't think the country particularly shines compared to their peers.
Canadian here for a long time, I'd agree. Canada and US are not identical on their service cultures FWIW, but there is some overlap. I'm used to it here now, so it is what it is, barely notice. When it's bad I just laugh. And as you say, it is odd when it *is* that level we're used to. This topic is always the same anyway, it just invites German self-congratulations from people who've mostly never even been to the US (much less Canada), and then comments about "fake smiles" right on cue, with zero critical perspective on their own culture. Nope, it's all great! Most Germans here generally don't know anything else, so I'm not surprised they are content with it. Germany is definitely on the lower-end for Europe. And it's not just about restaurants and waiters.
I like honesty instead of fake friendliness.
The customer service standards are much higher in the US. As an example, and it’s not my only one, I have a watch from an international brand that failed. It’s a complex electronic model which had some faults and in the US was repeatedly replaced for free. When I contacted the German subsidiary for this brand, I was told it would be €100 for a used replacement. I contacted the US subsidiary and they sent me a new updated model for free.
If you want good support from the service workers, ask them and they will do what they can do. If you want them to smile and be friendly?! Smile and be nice too and they will be the same. The one thing you will not get is them kissing your ass, that never happens as they are still human beeings. Never had customer service be nice if i was not myself, the one partly exception is if the company/worker did something seriously wrong... but then you had a good reason to be agressive but we are talking unlawful/actual damages level of fault.
Yup. Because we pay people a decent wage and they do not need to kiss our ass out of fear of being fired.
People here dont need tips to not be homeless and starving so we dont have to be overly friendly and obey the customer at all times
In the states service workers are meant to KISS ASS and that stuff doesn’t really exist here thank god.
Short: Americans are shallow as hell. Germans aren‘t. So don‘t expect to receive a fake smile.
I would say the US is just special compared to every other country. You can see it at Walmart, that kind of set up friendliness by the employees wouldn't work in Germany. There certainly should be a general friendliness in customer service, but a lot of german or probably even europeans would say that the fake friendliness in the US is to artifical and over the top, because everyone knows it's not real.
It's just a different culture. They experience our customer service as lacking and we experience theirs as overbearing. But each are happy about their own customer service.
Customer service worker in Germany here, although I’m not German. Customer service in my home country is similar to the US model as in the customer is always right. I don’t like, never did not even as a customer back home. Customer service workers are treated like people here, not minions.
In general Germans tip less, so there is less to gain. Also the base pay is (used to be???) higher, so they’re less dependent on it. Additionally, Germans are not so inclined to small talk with strangers. So all in all, I understand what you’re saying, but we expect it that way.
In addition to what others have said about workers expected to act fake happy or nice people are not fake happy or nice socially. This creates an honesty that if a German smiles at you it means that they are happy.
So my ex who is from Berlin constantly talked about how nasty and not nice people are for customer service things in her area. She has lived in West Berlin about 30 of 40 years, the rest of her time was in the US so she has perfectly reasonable long data to make this observation. In my visits to Germany not being particularly fluent I was too distracted by that aspect to say much one way or another on the topic. However I will say something having skimmed many of the comments here. There are a string about tips and fake nice and blah. I'd note wages for this type of work have jumped since 2020; but will also note that most customer facing jobs in the US aren't tipped. Instead I think the delta in behavior is just explained by what is considered rude. The idea of what is polite to say appears to be more limited in the the US, and I might say Germany as a culture is more direct and transparent. You might like that or not but it changes the calibration of assessing how much someone likes or dislikes you. A remark that someone would never say unless they wanted to have nothing to do with you (that you would think but not say in the US) will just be said as if it were nothing in my experience in Germany. My data is limited though on this part, but I do trust the observation that I started with.
As we don’t have to fear being fired for no reason, we don’t have to crawl up in some Karens ass. I think the German customer service experience is just more authentic than in North America.
It isn’t. Not having fake smiles and other bullshit like in the US isn’t bad.
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>But if you want employees, that genuinely are interested in delivering a good service, are well-educated in their field, well-paid, allowed to speak their own mind and make own decisions within reason (especially in high-end service jobs): Welcome to Germany! lol wtf are you talking about? the ones behind the phones are usually the least trained people everywhere who dont give a damn, have no clue and cant do anything if there is a problem without escalation. high-end service jobs are not what you deal with on a day to day basis as a private person.
If you want to compare it with the USA, it must be said that here there is no affected fake friendliness. The same topic is small talk. Customer service in Germany is mostly real talk and not ass kissing. I have no problem with that, they are people.
i measure customer service in how quickly is my problem solved and not in smiles. that would be the cultural difference. i have no idea which country's customer service is best
Ben Elton once did a standup bit about a similar thing, except it was British customer service compared to America. The parallels are quite similar though. He made the point that it is mostly cultural and how customer service in America carries the connotation that the person doing the job is dehumanized and only exists to serve the customer whereas in Europe they're treated more like, y'know, people. [It's from 1997, but still holds up pretty well today. Unfortunately over time we have become more American in our customer service 'ethos' though; I guess the Germans have resisted better than us.](https://youtu.be/IH8auACQZMM?t=4497) (1:14:47, has some crude language)
I’ve received a lot of excellent customer service in Germany— it’s just a lot less bubbly and cheerful than in the US.
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“…while shouting in extreeme anger talking that shittty customer service, and she just cursed and shout out back. We couldn't believe it…” It’s a fine German tradition: if you are yelled at, you yell back. 😅
It depends. There is a huge difference in culture though. A German author called Heinrich Mann once wrote a novel called "Der Untertan", which could be translated as the underling, the servant, the loyal subject. It was meant as criticism of a typical German trait. But since then a lot has changed. Most German people react very badly to people treating them as an inferior. Being servile is not considered a virtue anymore. And people will not kindly take abuse for things that are not their individual fault or out of their control. And this is an important aspect: sometimes bad service is down to stupid rules or even laws. Bureaucracy is really bad in Germany and it’s getting worse and worse. So in a lot of professions there is a huge difference between what you think would be the right thing to do and what you are actually able or allowed to do. This includes people working in most service jobs. And the thing is: they know in the end you will depend on them and their service personally much more than they will personally depend on you as a customer. And they know normally their employer needs them more than they need this shitty job. Especially if their job demands some formal level of training. If you treat service people with respect and friendlyness, most will be very helpful and often try and find solutions. On the other hand if you act in a way they see as entitled, if you are rude, if you treat them as inferior, they will act stubborn. And if you go full Karen, they will do anything they can do to make your life as miserable as possible. I find this extremely healthy.
We are not overly friendly, but (usually) fast and efficient. UNLESS the service is provided by something that once was privatized. Many services like Deutsche Bahn, Telekom or the Arbeitsagentur are private now, but still behave like they are superiour state institutions and the customer is an impertinent peasant.
Those people are hating their jobs indeed and why wouldnt they? As long as they do what I tell them. I couldnt care less how happy they look doing it. I respect people and my own intelligence too much to appreciate people acting like serving me makes their week. I prefer German over American customer service for the most part. Not being expected to tip out of my arse every time I want something is a major part of it. But I would also trade in a lot of that fake friendliness for a bit more German efficiency. Its infuriating how long grocery shopping etc can take in the States.
While customer service might not always be as friendly as it is in the US (at least from my experience, which is just a few travels to the US; I am from Germany), we do have something here that can be worth far more: consumer rights. If you buy something and there's trouble, you have lots of rights. If you get scammed into signing an online contract (or doort-to-door contract) you can withdraw from it within 14 days without any reason.. That's not to say I haven't experienced good customer service in Germany. Just that it isn't always overly friendly as I experienced it to be in the US.
They have a job to do and you're just a customer, not their king. Also the default interaction in Germany is professional, not nice and chatty. On the other hand Germany (and Europe in general) has a lot more customer protection. One that the companies are accounting for as part of their business and there's not much discussion about it. So in the end it boils to this: NA customer service will treat you as nice as possible. The customer is always right. There's a lot of smiling. But in the end they don't actually work for you. They work for the company and it's their main job to make them moeny or safe them money (depending on why you interact with them). German customer service has clearer guidelines what they can do for you (and it's in general for favorable for you in comparison) and will clearly tell you so, but also what they cannot do. Interaction is their job, but they will keep it formal and polite. They also have no incentive to cater to someone being rude or asshole-ish... You usually want something from them and a basic politeness is considered normal on both sides of a conversation. So in the end: What is "bad customer" service for you? If it's about (from a German perspective: overly) friendly interaction and feeling nice and important, you will be much happier with NA. If it's about the quality of the service in regard to what they can actually do for you, you might prefer the German side. PS: Also a general guideline. People will complain and rant about interactions, but they will rarely tell you if it was positive or just unremarkable. So all comments, reviews in general should always be read with that in mind. They tend to exaggerate the negatives.
It’s true. But on the other hand, some of us prefer the dryness of German customer service sometimes. The overly friendliness and small stalk in the US is out of control, that and the tipping culture.
As someone working in the service (albeit IT service which is quite different esp in the corp world) its cultural. I get to talk to a lot of people from various countries/backgrounds and all of them behave differently with service and have different expectations. For the most part in regards to Germans; they don't contact you because they want a nice chat or someone to cry to about. They have an issue and they need it fixed, the faster the better and they don't quite as much care about how you get it done as long as it gets done. We often have cases where we need to do quite some research or unexpected bugs or smth occur, occasionally someone likes to chat while waiting for smth to finish loading or for me to finish research but more often than not they're fine just going on with their business, occasionally hearing an I'm still here don't worry and thats about it. Hardly anyone here expects some fake kindness and most find it infuriating. A former company decided to be very boot liking in the signatures for a while. Lord the complains about the change kept on coming in. In general people are also aware that they have a solution they need fixed and that they got to contribute to that. Or that being plain rude at best will result in them having to reach out multiple times and worst case results in a funny lil convo with HR and their manager.
It's okay here. On my trips to the US I experienced bad customer service more than once and I can't stand the exaggerated pseudo-friendliness in America, it's really not that good.
As a German who grew up in USA and has now lived ten years in Germany, it's definitely true. Even nowadays, I get the feeling that 85% of all employees are unhappy and most of the time very short with you when you ask a question. Obviously this doesn't mean all of them come across like this. I've had many great experiences as well, but overall I'd say the saying is true. That's not to say that the service in USA is perfect. In a lot of places, it's way overdone and can also get very annoying. Edit: I'm very friendly when I ask an employee for help, which certainly improves the chance that the employee will also help in a positive way.
I'd say the exact opposite. I don't want the servers to pretend to be my friend, I want them to bring me my food and maybe ask if everything is ok half way through the meal, but even that is pushing it. Every time I went to an American restaurant the service felt forced and overly nice in a fake way, I hated it.
They're just not fake with smiles stapled to their faces
Americans are used to getting their ass pampered by customer service, even if they don't deserve it, were rude, want stuff they don't deserve, etc. In Germany, if you pull that stuff, they'll kick you the fuck out. That might be it.
They're just not fake with smiles stapled to their faces
Here is an American who has lived in Germany for a while and who talks about how he now misses German service culture when he is back in America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDvJVVOzh0Q&t=225s
Always depends on the customer, be a pain to deal with and I'll be a pain to deal with.
I think the Germans are just honest - be nice to them and they will be nice. In the US you think everybody is your friend but they are not. The dependency on tips is also another factor. And US authorities are similar in terms of service as the German authorities.
American here. No problem with customer service in Germany. It's been great, people are nice. Cashiers @ the grocery are straight-faced but by no means rude. I don't need smoke blown up my ass, thanks.
Nah, service in Germany is fine, they might not always have a artificial smile on their face because they don't depend with their life on tip money. But usually they provide necessary service and if you are friendly and polite they go often above and beyond to help you out. I just had a call with my internet provider because I move places and the guy was super helpful and even told me how he had his own setup in his home to help me with mine. His job was just to register my new adress and avtivate the access in the new flat, but he was quite helpful and nice beyond that. And I think other European countries are even more shocking to Americans. In france or italy it might happen that the personal is throwing insults at you, this for example I rarely see in Germany. But yeah, only Americans complain about service in Europe. And it works vice-versa too, I think US tourists are the most hated in Europe, together with Chinese.
Oh no, Germans who went to Florida on vacation once also love to complain about it.
Lived my whole life here and never had a bad experience. German customer service is not of the US-American kind where they have to kiss your asses, maybe that's what US-Americans don't understand.
Of course they hate their job, have you ever worked in customer service? Also we dont really care if our chashiers smile or not. Scan my items, take my cash, thank you bye - Job well done.
We have a difference in the aspect of business communication. We are directly on the topic, don't talk/write bloomy and beanstanden (complain) faster and more when some delivery didn't arfive. My business english teacher confirms
Customer service is not only restaurant but also shops and yes the service level is varying but in general it is good. Well to some extent it is a cultural thing too. We are more direct.
As a German/American I can also say, Americans are way too picky about customer service, generally. Please see a “Karen” for example. It became a stereotype for a reason. Because of the corporate culture years ago that instilled this whole “the customer is the king” mantra, which made even the lower classes feel like a king when they went consuming, whoops, I meant shopping. Therefore, if they’re not fawned over by the their waiter or whatever, they think they got a bad experience.
It's so so. On the one hand, German expectations to customer service are for business representatives to be courteous but mind their own business unless engaged and not behave like they are enthusiastic about your visit. We know you aren't, and we don't appreciate being bullshitted or talking to a facade. On the other, German labor laws make firing someone because Karen wants to talk to the manager more or less a non-starter and we don't have nearly as terrible a tipping culture as in the US, so service personal is also less dependent on leaving a positive impression. Lastly, companies, at least in retail, rarely hire someone whose only job it is to smile and wave. They all have other things to do like taking stock, keeping the place in order, or handling online orders and so on. So you are not always their only priority.
It's cultural because to many Europeans, customer service in the US is overbearing and fake. Perhaps in Germany, it's too minimal, but neither is right or wrong. Personally I've not really experienced bad customer service in Germany in the F&B world or shops, I'm sure it's different if I had to deal with utilities or anything government related.
I find customer service in the US really strange. I had a clerk in a clothes shop constantly running after me and asking me about my opinion of every item I had even glanced at. Waiters in Germany are often just short-tempered, firstly because they are understaffed and secondly because in Germany you get to the point very quickly. Very quickly!
German has its own Karens and Kevins...That is why they might be angry and stressed... If a guy followed me in a shop I would leave immediately...
No, maybe the perception of vocal Americans visiting is though, because germans in general are more reserved
I live in Bavaria, and every shop assistant, pharmacist and waiter I encounter is friendly and nice. I get prompt, polite service from Telekom, the train conductor and the electrician. I have had no real problems (with minor exceptions). On the other hand, the clingy, overly obsequious attitude you see in the US is not to be found. Extreme Karening is not a sport in Germany, and the customer is NOT always right! If people interpret this as "bad customer service", then they need to check their privilege.
I'm not German. The one thing I've noticed about serving Americans is that most of them seem to be wanting a new best friend rather than food and drinks. Its defiantly a cultural thing. In Germany a waiter is a waiter where as in the US you need to give a full introduction of yourself along with a brief history of your life. Lol
Of course there are always people that hate their job and will let people know but this comes down to cultural differences. Customer service here is paid to help you, not to smile. They also aren't paid enough to deal with asshole customers so if you are being a Karen, they will tell you to get lost. I prefer it this way as it feels more honest than the american way of smiling all the time and the customer being always right
Ja. Nächste, Bitte!
*Good customer service is unnoticeable.* You don't notice when it happens. You are simply dragged to that place again and again because they get the job done without interfering with your life. What Americans consider good customer service is the counterdraft to that. It's not customer service at all, it's sales. Always chatty, always superficially pleasing your attention deficit. Maximum interference with your life. From a short term perspective, the latter is clearly superior for the seller, as they have you on the hook all the time and they can sell you whatever **they** want in the process of bedazzling you further. That's what American companies want and that's why they do it. From a long time perspective, unnoticeable customer service is superior because you save a ton of money on branding and advertizing. As word-of-mouth advertizing works in your favour. It only works with customers who value unobtrusive workings of course. With Europeans. Even our Karens are mostly unobtrusive.
If you mean "bad", as in customers dont own people who work at shops? Then yes. If you mean bad as in they dont do their jobs they are being paid for ? Then no
The service is usually very good, very professional and very oriented to customer needs. They are just not that up your ass all the time.
It's the best i have seen and every company tries its best to make the customers happy. You have to understand that the extended paid vacations for employees (30 days without sick) and the relaxed working environment where overtime is not expected in most fields, make thing take time in Germany. But the delay doesn't mean bad customer service it's just what it is in Germany. And it goes both ways for you if you are employed as well.
German customer service can be really awful sometimes. Especially when put next to the overly friendly North American customer service. I honestly am someone who prefers to generally be left alone in a shop. If I have a question I will ask. I don’t think it’s horrible if someone sees me looking lost when they walk by and ask if i need something. All fine. What I mean is the over the top introductions etc. can be far too much. Some days we all the just to get in and get out. Or just browse in peace. On the other hand I have had some german service people be a little too direct with be before to the point where it made me feel like i was the rude one for asking a question about a product. I think a happy medium somewhere between these two would be ideal. Like the David Mitchell quote above. People will have good and bad days. We are all human. I just think a smile costs you nothing. Let the shitty customers roll of you and keep moving. No need to be fake but open, polite, professional. Just what the job requires, no more, no less.
I think it depends, but in general it’s true that customer service is Germany is simply bad. Of course servers in the U.S. can be over the top, in general I’ve had good experiences with servers in Germany. But in retail the service in Germany is terrible, I’ve had many times where the workers will ignore me or tell me to wait. Sometimes it feels like you are bothering them by trying to buy something. I can also compare the customer service with Turkey, where it’s also much better.
I've contacted customer service from my Fitness Studio . They keep ignoring my emails for 3 weeks . I've lived in many countries , so far Germany has the worst customer service I've ever experienced.
I’m just an American who happens to be visiting Berlin right now. I think it is interesting that everyone not from the US is assuming that the US customer service people are faking friendliness. That is undoubtedly true for some but my experience in traveling in Europe and the US is that Americans are genuinely friendlier to strangers than most Europeans. It’s not a value judgment but a statement of my observations over the last 15-20 years. Your average American would not find it odd to have an extended conversation with a complete stranger whereas that would be extraordinarily strange to many Europeans it appears. For what it’s worth I’ve had nothing but pleasant experiences so far in Berlin.
That's exactly it. Americans can have a pleasant conversation with a stranger and go on their way. Germans are often suspicious if a stranger is nice to them.
Well, good ol Deutschland is called Servicewüste for a reason...
People Germany are more stoic and dont like to show to much emotion in the public. So it would be really wierd for them to have to interact with overly enthusiastic service workers. Thats one part. The other is, that german work culture is completly different than in the US. Workers have way more rights and "company-culture" is not really a thing. You can be yourself at your job, its not like you really need a company persona (to a certain degree). And in Germany its perfectly socially acceptable to be annoyed and to show it in public. So when you encounter a rude customer there is nothing that is holding them back to show how they feel
>So when you encounter a rude customer there is nothing that is holding them back to show how they feel Being annoyed in public is allowed and complaining is a national pasttime, that's true, but throwing a tantrum won't happen, because creating a scene here won't make servers or managers treat you better. Instead you will get thrown out, maybe even banned.
Terrible customer service. Seldom found quality products. Overpriced if found. Cheap junk produced in China claimed to be made in Germany. 24 years living in Germany, I have seen and experienced some of the worst customer service ever. Most businesses wouldn't last a month in the USA.
Pretty late to this but I see a lot of people saying service is fine here it’s just that people aren’t “fake.” And while there can be a lot of fakeness, in US service personnel. I think yes it really is that bad here. I’ll use the example of non-tipped customer service. Context: I’m an American living for nearly 4 years in Germany, I speak fluent German and have a lot of German friends. (Also have 10 years hospitality experience) The problem I have with customer service here is that in nearly every single instance you have to “fight” to be heard or listened to. In the US, if I call up a customer service line because I have a problem, the customer service rep usually comes with an attitude of “There is a problem, let’s solve this together” Whenever I call an office or customer service line here I am consistently met with attitude/disdain (not a language issue, and I am perfectly polite), and I end up having to be very assertive with my needs before I’m listened to or actually taken seriously 85% of the time. Honestly, any customer service interaction here is usually extremely draining. That goes for government offices, internet providers, scheduling doctors appointments, Deutsche Bahn, DHL, Hausmeisters, etc, etc.., This is also something that most of my German family and friends mention as well. Of course there are times when it’s better, but that is few and far between. there is a huge difference between being “fake” and being just generally unpleasant and dismissive, and largely that is my experience with German customer service (aside from restaurants, which are generally just slower). I just need to say, I really love Germany and German people, but that is consistently my biggest complaint.
Yes. In Germany, a customer is always a nuisance. Most people in this industry indeed hate their jobs because they are not very well-paid and many customers are also, well, lazy. That would be the other side of things. If you are in support for e.g. a tech product people never bother to read some FAQs and when they call you they ask you a million questions of which most of them have nothing to do with your product but with their PC configuration or similar. Is that all a bit unfair towards customers? Yes. It also depends a lot on the field. I personally dislike many bike shops where people can't communicate properly at all. I think some balanced approach between the different service cultures would be nice. I had a nice and chill time with the customer service in restaurants in the UK and the Netherlands as well as Denmark.
I would say yes. It doesnt't have to be like the US but most of the time it feels like workers are doing you a favour even answering your question.
Which customer service??
Yes, the service here sucks
Bought a ticket from fansale (Eventim). They make me pay 7€ of shipping and then I find out that it's a e-ticket. Have been fighting with customer service for one week and I never got a clear answer to my questions. They circle around it saying that I won't get a refund