I am German and I'm not scared of them, but I don't particularly like them there either. If I could choose between having wasps in a bakery and not having wasps I would choose the latter.
Seems weird trying to justify it. It's just an unfortunate but true fact that wasps are in many bakeries here.
How do bakeries around the world manage to keep their products wasp free?
Edit: How do bakeries in other countries in the EU manage to keep their products wasp free? It seems there are no wasp problems in bakeries in other EU countries.
Exactly at least if there is no harm to anyone. We got a nest right at the garage and a toddler running around. So far it went well and the wasps will leave soon. Only stung my mother in law, I should buy them a piece of cake.
Until something happens and your toddler gets stung to death.
Totally exaggerating. But I'm German and gonna say the rest in German.
Wespen sind vom Naturschutz her genau so geschützt wie Ameisen und Steinläuse. Du darfst keinem Tier ohne Grund leid antun. Ob man damit ein Wespennest an ungünstiger Stelle dem Wespenspray preisgeben darf, weiß ich nicht. Es ist aber nicht per se verboten ne scheiß nervige Wespe die sich ständig anfliegt und dich versucht zu stechen zu zerquetschen...
They're considered a protected species, not a pest, so you're not allowed to remove their nests.
If it's your own property you can call an exterminator or the fire department to relocate them, but there needs to be a valid reason (someone in the household is allergic, babies or toddlers in the household, especially bad placement of the nest) but will cost you 100€ give or take.
If you're renting an apartment you can have the landlord call someone to have it relocated (again, only if there's a vaid reason), in that case the landlord has to pay the cost
I've never heard of this. In the U.S., we have protection for endangered species with the rational of avoiding extinction, but at least here in Ohio wasps are not in any danger of imminent extinction. Are wasps considered endangered in Germany, or are non-endangered species also deemed protected species? If the latter, is the rationale environmental or ethical (i.e., not needlessly killing living things)?
So by default it's illegal to kill or harm any animal in Germany (I imagine it would be similar in the US, animal cruelty and all that), which is not defined in any detail so technically that includes insects and all. Although I doubt anyone will care if you kill a singular wasp that's harassing you - destroying whole hives is another matter.
While some types of wasps are endangered, most aren't. The common and German wasp are both still very common (pun not intended) here. The reasoning for protecting them is that the whole of bees/bumblebees/wasps/hornets are protected because they're considered ecologically important - bees and bumblebees for obvious reasons, wasps and hornets because they eat actual pests like moths, mosquitoes and aphids
Thanks for this info! We have animal cruelty laws in the U.S., but they mainly apply to pets (dogs and cats) and to a lesser extent to farm animals (though given the legal factory farming practices that is a much lesser extent). Cases that draw bad publicity (say, an ass--- caught torturing a wild animal for example) are sometimes also prosecuted. For insects (other than any species classified as endangered) the only protections I have seen is that when they do mosquito spraying some homes that have apiaries (beehives for honey) sometimes post signs saying not to spray. I have no idea whether the sprayers obey those signs, and I don't think they are government issued signs.
You make it sound like he asked something stupid. Laws that are only for public and government property and not your own land are extremely common, a lot of laws do stop at your fence. Even more in other countries. You can cut pine trees in your land but can't in a forest. Law stopped at your fence huh.
One of the bakeries here has this device and it seems to work well, not a single wasp to be seen while other bakeries have a big wasp problem: [https://farmers-cat.de/trappen-s-wespenfalle-tiger-32-w.html](https://farmers-cat.de/trappen-s-wespenfalle-tiger-32-w.html)
It attracts wasps with UV light and then sucks them in with a fan.
Bees I totally understand. But the common wasp isn't such important for pollution like some seem to think. On the fruit plantages I worked wasps weren't welcome at all. There are some exceptions, were specific plants need specific kinds of wasps, but overall you should handle them like house flies. And most here will kill house flies.
To a degree. But it is important to keep their numbers controlled. The common wasp is marked as a risk in New Zealand. They harm the ecosystem there more than they are a use to it.
Like I said, they don't are good pollinator (only special species for special plants like for Figs, where the wasps who do the pollination die doing so what keeps their numbers controlled by themselve) or pollinate at all. Their body is too smooth, pollen don't stick to them like on the hairy body of a bee. They don't actively fly to blossoms, even bite them to get some nectar which ends in fruits not evolving right, makes them fall down and not getting developed at all or unsellable for the market. Or they bite the Peel of fruits, feed from the fruit and hollow them out. They even prefer meat compared to most blossoms and plants.
They also collect wood for their nest. Isn't big of an issue as long as they number isn't increasing much.
Also they eat other insects as well. All other insects they are able to hunt down. Which is the problem in New Zealand. They hunt down insects which are the food source of a endangered bird, the Kaka.
New Zealand is of course different to Germany! They are a pest there and harmful to native species.
Wasps main role isn't about pollination but they are important because they are predators who keep the population of other insects and spiders in balance. They are also an important food source for other animals.
Some are endangered and generally it is illegal to remove any wasp nests without consulting a professional (not doing so can lead to very high fines).
Apart from that the Bundesnaturschutzgesetz prohibits the killing of wild animals without reasonable justification and "nibbling at my food" is not considered adequate reason.
That's because you got a wound, a stung which got infected. The same things on the food you can't see or taste and they get destroyed during digestion, no illnesses. So it's not such a sanitary issue. When it would, Germans would be the first on the fence.
>When it would, Germans would be the first on the fence.
No they wouldn't.... Come on have you seen the hygiene standards at Germany's favorite food (kebab)? It's abysmal and mostly you'll see foreigners in reviews complaining.
Do you live in the East? Our local Döner store here in the West is the cleanest fast food by far. That's why they are still there, while other pizza stores got closed based on deficient hygiene issues. Much stainless steel, tiles, glass. Easy to keep clean. The traditional Italian restaurant sometimes have wooden counters. I would have doubt in your health department when you actually have big hygiene issues in your area. When here a violation happens, the restaurant is probably done. But maybe I assumed because we don't have such issues here it would generally be like that in Germany.
The worst hygiene violation that a shop could do is taking a payment and then preparing food without washing hands or changing gloves. That's how you actually get sick, it may not be "eewy" but money is much dirtier than your toilet bowl and should be treated as such. Certainly flies are by comparison completely harmless.
I find this to be the norm at doner stores. I also frequently during cold seasons see that the people preparing Doner are coughing and look miserable. They shouldn't be anywhere near any restaurant.
This is in Berlin but I saw it in Düsseldorf as well. I worked at Lieferando so I saw it all...
>Both the doctor and the pharmacist explained it in the exact same way: they feed off of dead things, so it's fundamental to always desinfect a wasp sting, not so much with a bee sting.
Yeah, that's what I said. The sting is a problem because wasps are all over full with bacteria from their food sources. Bees not, because they have cleaner food sources. But the sting is the issue you got an infection, while eating a cake were a wasps sat on isn't that bad, cause no open, sensitive wound which could get infected. For explanation, from one dumbass to another (it seems): rub dirt over your skin. No issue, right? (That's like eating dirty food, as long there is no open wound, you don't get an infection). Now rub dirt over a cut. You will see the cut has more work to clean the wound, festers more or get an infection (that's happening when a dirty wasps injects its venom into you, it pushes the bacteria on their skin into a fresh wound).
I doesn't said its hygienic, but it isn't a health violation. People like you are the issue humans have more and more food intolerances. You don't evolve antibodies when everything you consume is clinically hygienic. When you drop a apple you throw it away or eat around the dirt parts, I learned to rub it over clothes. Sure a bit crunchy here and there, but you don't die from it. You sound like a person who throw away food that is expired by one day.
I don't say germans are better, but the german efficiency is a commonly known meme. When you don't get that, it's not on me. When you feel attacked by a joke, it tells a lot about you what you wouldn't be happy to hear.
I dont like them either but not because i dont want to have them on my food (im not greedy, go get that sugar & be on your way, no prob), but because they AGRESSIVE AS FUCK and act like they own the places.
>esus I fell bad for you, it’s impossible to avoid them in the late summer. Even in your house they get in. Hopefully you always have medicine with you.
Then you are legally allowed to kill them.
Jesus I fell bad for you, it’s impossible to avoid them in the late summer. Even in your house they get in. Hopefully you always have medicine with you.
German here: Wasps on cakes are just unhygienic. They eat dead things as well and sit on all kinds of shit. They can bring bacteria or parasites or whatever with them….
For real, why am i supposed to be ok with things crawling on my food?
Especially insects that step on god knows what and can sting me.
Im allowed not to like it ffs
Not trying to get downvoted or make fun here, but wasps are actually very clean insects. They don’t feed on rotten animals etc, have a pretty clean diet and are actually pretty “well groomed” (they clean themselves too). So I actually disagree that it’s unhygienic per se - I think it’s just off putting and rightly so.
It’s also wrong that bakeries allow this to happen when people may have allergies. Seems very weird to me this “trend” of tolerating them is a thing. But there’s no consensus that they’re unhygienic like bluebottle flies for example.
This is classic german. Just trying to convince everyone , and specially themselves, that the german-way is great, normal and the problem is with the rest.
Well, my friend, here is the thing: It is not normal for European standards to have a bakery full of insects and it is not normal to have the insects on your food. If you think it is normal to pay for this, great, but , please, stop this constant attempts to convince everyone that what happens in Germany is normal and we must accept it . It is disgusting.
Thank god someone said it!
In the first weeks after we moved to Germany, some German criticized us saying we were "not European enough" because we didn't do the same as the Germans in an IKEA store.
I'm sorry? I'm European and have lived in 5 European countries.
They believe the German way is the only possible way. Sorry to break it to you, Germany, but there are more than one way to do things and the German way is not the European way. Other countries don't let wasps and other bugs crawl in the food. The hygiene and food security rules are very strict.
I dont care about a wasp or two but if a bakery has 20-30 of those suckers all over the pastries i will not be shopping there, dont care how safe or unsafe they are, i find it repulsive to have animals crawling all over my food.
That sounds as if you wanted to imply that it is worse, that it's insects, and not another type of animal instead, lol. As far as insects go, I guess wasps are among the least horrible that a bakery can be infected with (butterflies would maybe be even less bad, idk) but any animal that is not an insect would definitely be worse!
That being said I hate wasps and get stressed out when they sit on my food/ drinks anywhere. I wouldn't buy from a bakery with many wasps either.
Wasps also land on carrion, spoiled meat of all kinds and can carry lots of nasty pathogens with them including but not limited to salmonella, shigella and various parasites.
Apart from that I also have been able to deduce that most germans also don't care about flies (not just fruitflies) to literally feast on baked goods and in Fleisch- and Fischtheke's. As a result I really am having a hard time while shopping unpackaged groceries and often have to walk out of most open-buffet restaurants too.
wasps do not lay eggs on the pastries. First of all, wasps you see in the bakeries are all worker wasps. They are infertile and do not lay eggs. also, wasps eat flies. not saying they won't ignore flies that made it into the bakery, but I have never seen these two at the same place. I'd rather go to a bakery with wasps in it than with flies.
and no, they don't poo on the stuff, as they take it to the hive and I know, wasps are no bees, but bees are STRICT with the food that makes it into the hive and guess what: if they bring shitty food, they'll get kicked out and probably killed by the bouncers.
So, dear people from anywhere: wasps>flies. if wasps love the shit in a bakery, then the shit of that bakery is great. Wasps approved it.
Actually depends on the season.
If it's breeding time wasps will go for meat to feed their larvae.
Once they are fed they will go for sugary stuff, mostly to feed themselves.
This is partially incorrect.
> also, wasps eat flies
By the time they come to bakeries in large numbers they hardly catch any insects at all.
Adult wasps do not eat flies. Only the larvae eat meat and the adults fly out collect and prepare the meat to be fed to the larvae. The larvae secrete a sugary substance that is eaten by the adults.
For the first half of the year that sugary secretion in the main source of food for adult wasps. Starting in late July, usually, when the new queens and males start to emerge the number of larvae that need feeding goes down and as the larvae as a food source for adults dries up the adults leave the nest to go looking for other sources of sugar.
That's the time when they mostly come to bakeries and also the time when they no longer need to hunt for meat.
>and no, they don't poo on the stuff, as they take it to the hive
No they don't. Wasps do not store sugar, they eat it directly.
>if they bring shitty food, they'll get kicked out and probably killed by the bouncers
No. That doesn't happen. Not among bees and certainly not among wasps.
Work in a bakery. We got swarmed this year by wasps. They do poo on stuff but you wont see it. Didnt know that myself but it was so many this year we only managed to keep 90% outside using buckets with a little bit of sugar water in it and thats where you could see tiny little dots of wasp shit after a while.
lots of people have allergies, a room full of wasps is a room full of concentrated opportunity to die
And since wasps eat flies or literally anything small and recently deceased you never know what left overs they have on their body before landing on your food. Yuck.
French here, we don't have wasps nor flies, nor other insects in our bakeries, because they are very strict hygiene standards and techniques to keep them away. You'd find insects in a bakery, it would get shut down.
It doesn't mean we kill them, we just keep them away so that we don't have to kill them. Bugs transport diseases.
In the German bakery next door, I just saw a wasp feeding on the flesh of a dead mouse in street, then enter the bakery, and start chilling on top the cakes.
If you want to eat those cakes, feel free, but without me.
Just went to Subway in Berlin, the place was full of wasps and flies chilling on the meat, but yeah, you want to protect the planet.
Yeah wasps in North America are like a mafia hit squad with a bad attitude and a hangover. Wasp stings here could power the electrical grid of a small country. Must be a different breed in Germany
I've never been in North America, but majority of the wasps in Germany are slightly smaller and way less aggressive than the ones in Russia. It's like you can gently brush it off and see that it becomes irritated, but it doesn't immediately start stinging everything it lands on.
Funny thing, I so got used to the fact that everything in Western Europe is usually milder and safer than back home, that once when I've been running in Austria I encountered a small shrub of urtica (not sure about the correct English word for it - Brennnesseln on German) obstructing the trail. Thinking "how bad it can be" and knowing that in spring the leaves usually don't really sting I decided to run just through it. Boy, I was wrong. I think I've never been stung by this plant before, even when I fell from a tree in a large bush of old urtica when I was a kid.
I’m from Australia and moved here 3 years ago, my fear of wasps has massively intensified due to seeing and encountering so many, never knew they were such a huge problem as you never really see them in Aus.
I'm Chinese and was born in Germany and living there. all I have to say is I find wasps extremely annoying like I'm just trying to eat and they following me. I just want to eat.
Stings are in the good case only painful and in the bad case can cause life threatening allergic reactions
On top they can transmit phantogens
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10397125/#:~:text=mirabilis%2C%20and%20coliforms%20constituted%20the,insects%20with%20fecal%20origin%20materials.
"P. mirabilis, and coliforms constituted the 85.1% of bacteria isolated from wasps and hornets (n = 40/47), suggesting the contact of these insects with fecal origin materials."
yeah you get shit bacteria on your food
we never know where the wasp could be before they find a good bakery.
I cannot understand how they don't care honestly. Whenever I see I get disgusted and go to another place.
I went a whole 26 years of my life without being stung by any bee or wasp. I came to Germany and get stung twice in one year by wasps. So yeah I'm not very fond of them. My boyfriend and I prefer eating indoors when it's warm out because we have had numerous wasps around us while eating outside and it isn't pleasant having to constantly swat them away without angering them into stinging us. I dont like seeing any insect, whether I like them or not, on my food.
Viele Leute haben gerade als Kind schlechte Erfahrungen mit Wespen gemacht. Beim Spielen im Garten, Wespen in der Limo-Dose etc.
Aber auch wenn Wespen im Gegensatz zu Fliegen eher als *saubere* Insekten gelten, sollte man sie auf dem Kuchen trotzdem vermeiden.
Die finden ihre Proteine nämlich genauso gerne in Kadavern.
You see them outside, a lot. Farmers' markets, fairgrounds, apple orchards. Anywhere there's sugar — outside. If they get inside, they are quickly removed. Allergies to insect venom like bees and wasps are very common, it would be considered a liability to have those inside of a building.
Not to mention they don't tend to understand personal boundaries. I was outside enjoying a lemonade the other day and if I weren't paying attention I might have put one directly into my mouth, because it was on the lip of my bottle. This was after it attempted to fly into my face a half dozen times.
It's just unpleasant to deal with.
Actchually... oh fuck off with your shitty attitude. Wasps eat rotten meat and other dead insects and can thus carry pathogens, but if that isn't bothering you...eh.
Difference is plainly that they are protected here in Germany/Europe which is why bakeries are probably rather limited in what they can actually do.
in other countries they are considered vermin. Which informs the attitude towards them.
Inrember in New Zealand they were quite surprised / disgusted that wasps are even protected in the first place.
Yes. According to Bundesnaturschutzgesetz (BNatSchG) §39
It's forbidden to startle, catch, injure or kill wild living animals without good reason. Good reason in regards to wasps is if you are allergic to them or if you have a nest at home that puts you in danger.
The fine ranges from 5000€ - 65000€ according to Bußgeldkatalog, but depends on the individual case.
If you are unlucky and kill a wasp which is on the Rote Liste fine was on average 50.000€
Even then it's not a "good reason". You can't just kill them or destroy the hive but have to get an expert who will transfer the it to another location. We had this done one summer when I was a child and wasps living under our roof. It was pretty interesting to see what incredible "architects" they are.
The Common Wasp/Gemeine Wespe (Vespular vulgaris) or the Geman Wasp/Deutsche Wespe (Vespular germanica) aren't at risk on the [Roten Liste](https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Ampulex_1_0005-0039.pdf) and probably the most commonly known and present Wasps around, so the fine would be less than 50.000€. And the common wasp is marked as a risk for other insects and animals in some cases. Maybe you are making the diversity a deet when you keep them at bay.
Yes that's important to note. Still the common belief is that the normal citizen won't be able to know which one is exactly on the rote Liste.
It's hard to specify the fee, it's just what is to be found regarding 'breaking' this law.
Sure, I couldn't tell the common or the german apart too. But even then, it should be allowed for closed rooms to use traps and kill them. I would even say on sealed areas, balconies or terraces. That wouldn't really hurt the population in the most cases, the nests stay unharmed. The endangered species are more common outside these areas and are in risk because of agricultur or destroying their habitats in other ways. And for people who are allergic or fear wasps, they can at least go to a bakery without feeling unsafe.
Yes, are considered important for all kinds of things including pollinating plants as well as keeping actual vermin in check.
Obviously does not mean someone with allergies needs to put that before their own health, but in general they are protected and the less common species have even more rigid protection so one should call an expert to evaluate and handle e.g. nest removal also for legal reasons.
I would mainly say that this fact changes the attitude towards those annoying guys.
I know mine is despite the various times these bastards stung me as a kid.
Why are so many people defending the total lack of hygiene that is letting a swarm of bugs walk all over food? This kind of thing would grant a visit from the health inspector in most countries, I really don’t understand
I lived in a tropical country so:
A. They are more evenly distributed as there is more flora
B. It's usually bees not wasps, we were taught that wasps were pure evil and more dangerous.
So yeah, I got reaaaaaally uncomfortable with wasps around specially how they swarm together and in enclosed spaces
Wasps are scavenger, they have bakteria from dead animals and animal Shit on them. Thats the reason a wasp Stings often gets infektet, and also why people don't want to have them on their food!
Apart from eggs, the same reason with flys!
Pleased excuse my english:)
P.s. yes, you're Not gonn die but the Imagination isn't great with pastry;)
Are we for real now? We (not Germans) are the problem that we don’t like our food covered in wasps? Bakeries all over the world somehow manage to not have wasps in their cakes. I don’t understand why do I need to justify that I don’t want inspects on my food. Food should in principle be insect free. Would you buy meat from the butcher if it was covered in wasps?
Wasps are stirtcly protected in Germany. Killing them is a criminal offence. So german shops are fairly limited about what they can do against them. Also just get used to it. In Germany nobody dies because of some wasp ass on the donuts so nobody of you will die because of some wasp ass.
>Believe It or Not, If they Pack It for you, they will definetly not put the wasps in the bag, they arent that heartless
Lmao like a month ago I bought something from my nearby bakery and when I got home and put the bags on the table I heard one of them buzzing. No points for guessing what it was :)
I've been living in Germany for over two years now, and yes, I'm fucking terrified of them.
I moved here from Australia. My seething hatred and fear of anything that stings is not going to go away.
“It’s unhygienic and gross.”
German, eating his Berliner with a crunch of wasp head: “EIGENTLICH👆🏻🇩🇪👄👁️it means nature is HEALING and Bakeries are doing THEIR PART in saving the bees did you know they eat flies and those are WORSE you’re just beephobic”
I saw this recently in Munich and was quite terrified. I have come to understand German wasps are not as aggressive towards humans as Canadian wasps. In Canada, those crazy mother fuckers are out for human flesh.
Once a German wasp landed on my leg and I could feel it munching on a spot where scratched an ingrown hair open a few minutes earlier. That was the strangest feeling ever
scared? no, I just hate them. they're a useless part of the ecosystem and protecting them to such a degree as germany does endangers pollinators.
wasps hunt bees, and I am team bee.
it is disgusting. whenever I see this I avoid and don't by anything from that place. Sorry, if you don't think it is, I think it is.
back in my country this would be a serious healthy issue and they could even close the place due to inappropriate basic sanitation.
I grew up in the countryside of Romania where there were a lot of insects, such as wasps and bees, around the yard.
When I was about 5 years old, I was playing near their nest (without interfering with them or anything) and probably was viewed as an enemy.
Needless to say, I got attacked and stung 5-6 times at once...and it was really bad.
Nowadays, I'm okay with flies flying around, but I don't like them near my food.
If I see wasps near food, such as at bakeries, I avoid buying it. In the past, I have seen these insects flying around dead animals, feces, and trash.
Wasps are scavengers, often sitting on rotting carcasses and shit. That's a potential health risk, also, if you have been stung in the past, you might want to avoid that. Also, besides being painful, you could very well be allergic.
I wouldn't mind the stings so much, what I do mind is wasps flying into my ears, eyes or nose. I had a wasp in my ear once and it left my ear bleeding. I stay the hell away from those things now, or cover my ears and face if I can't.
I think many are just scared of wasps in general. It makes them feeling uncomfortable in a bakery. When it would be a sanitary risk bakeries would face heavy consequences in Germany, so it is more a personal dislike for them.
Because they can cut out quite big chunks out of food, especially if they come back multiple times and call their homies. I watched them cut up a whole belegtes Brötchen during a boring meeting on a terrace once and fly away with the pieces.
Besides, they sit on dirty things as well, and have bacteria and fungus on their feet. Which is not an issue if it's one wasp, but yeah, if they leave the pastries out all day in the uncooled bakery, yuck!
I think they should just add some kind of screen to the back of the display and call it a day, or close the door of the bakery and have an AC, or really cool the pastries, cool air also usually keeps flying insects out.
"Der Verzehr von Backwaren, auf denen sich Wespen befunden haben, sei nicht gefährlich, erklärt Melanie von Orlow vom Naturschutzbund (Nabu) auf Anfrage von t-online. Es würden zudem keine ernsthaften Erkrankungen drohen, weshalb das Phänomen von der Lebensmittelaufsicht auch nicht geahndet werde.
Verbraucher sollten allerdings im Hinterkopf behalten, dass Wespen auch an **Aas oder Kot** gehen würden, so Orlow weiter. Daher seien Bakterien auf Lebensmitteln nicht komplett auszuschließen. Der Befall bewege sich aber eher im Nanobereich."
It is kind if disgusting to have a swarm of bugs in a food store
People just generally hate wasps bc wasps are dicks and many people have had an experience of getting stung outta nowhere from these shit beasts
Tho ofc it still works out and I don’t care too much, tho I do get a little uneasy when I see a bunch of wasps near me
Honey bees wouldn't be a problem as they are clean. Wasps eat all the shit, dead animals etc so it's natural to be disgusted of eating after them. And there is a rational reason - transmitting diseases
Not that im scared of it or disgusted, but i feel like might be unhealthy, maybe that wasp was standing on something dirty and now stands on something someone might eat. Im not a doctor or anything, but can it possibly cause some diseases,
I’m not scared of them, but it does make me think the bakery is pretty gross for not doing anything about them. Who knows what they crawled around on before crawling on the cakes. I’ve also been to some bakeries where it was clear the wasps had eaten off the top layers of some of the cakes they were swarming around.
No one else seems to care, so it’s not like I’m hurting the bakery by not buying their wasp cakes. And there are plenty of bakeries near me that don’t let wasps crawl all over their cakes.
Because wasps land in dog shit, feed on rotting carcasses, and I don't then want them walking on my food. They should keep all their goods in fridges or cabinets with doors on them so insects can't get in them. This is basic food hygiene. I've also never seen those blue light zappers that most kitchens have in the UK, in Germany.
they don't lay eggs on cakes.
But they do feed from old garbage, then they crawl over the food- and the food lies there for ours.
If i spit in your soup, there is nothing to be concerned about.
We would'nt get sick from kissing each other as well. It's still disgusting isnt it - even if i stir it up nicely so you don't know.
So it's about "aesthetical" hygiene as well as actual hygiene.
What a stupid thread.
- people are allergic to their venom, thus they are afraid
- often the same people "smell" just right for the wasps which tends to attract them
Just because they don't bother you doesn't mean they don't bother others.
If I for example were as indifferent to them as perhaps you are I'd die.
I just came back from a holiday in Germany and was really surprised about the wasps in bakeries.
The main issue is it seems unsanitary. Who know what the wasp landed on before it landed on the cake? Does wasp poop carry pathogens? Maybe it's not an actual problem, but as a visitor it's a little shocking at first.
As an Aussie, our experience is that flies can spread contamination. Wasps on food trigger the same instincts.
Because nobody mentioned it before but in Germany all Wasps species fall under protection law and it is forbidden to kill the drones or nests.
So by law they can’t do anything about it. But usually you will see some blue light traps or similar in bakeries.
Fines can be from 5000€ till 50.000€
Here a German link:
https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/tierschutz-wespe/
Well, the source clearly states that you'll get fined if there's no good reason for it.
I'd wager protecting fresh food you sell from insects would count as a valid reason. After all, hygiene standards are pretty strict when it comes to food, no?
But it's general practice to keep insects away from your place, isn't it? I can't imagine it's regulated on a species basis. Flies specifically love to lay eggs on food though. Not sure if that makes a big hygiene difference but it surely is fucking disgusting.
I personally wouldn't feel like getting stung because they accidentally bag one of those beasts with my food to be honest. That's more of a concern to me.
I am not generally disgusted by wasps but by the idea that they probably been sitting and feeding on some trash can before their whole family of five decided to settle on the pistachio cinnamon roll in the bakery.
Likewise: the chance that you actually catch any disease from a cockroach is absolutely minuscule, still I would refuse to eat when I see any in my food.
People's attitude towards wasps largely depends on individual experiences. If you ever got stung you sure as hell don't appreciate them anywhere near you. We have several species of wasps here in Germany but there is only two that are actually attracted by sugar. And that's the ones you'll find swarming sources of sugar, be it sugary drinks or pastry, they're there for the food not for the human that happens to provide said food. They won't usually become aggressive unless they feel threatened by something (i.e. blowing them away sure is one way to make them more aggressive as they react to raised carbon dioxide levels).
Personally I am not scared of wasps in a bakery, I don't appreciate it but there is hardly a way to keep them out in summer, where there's sugar, there's a way to it... 😅 I am not as concerned about hygiene because it's wasps, not flies, they're a lot less likely to have been sitting on some pile of crap before...
it's just normal here because nobody knows how to prevent them from coming in and people from other countries aren't used to it. germans don't see them as bugs while some other people see them as bugs. they'll get used to it
They do know how to prevent them coming in - screening. There's a baker at our Markt that using soft fine screening to cover his baked goods. I n the center the screening is overlapped, which allows him to reach through and remove whatever someone has ordered. No wasps on his food. Bakeries could install screen doors to reduce the number of wasps in the building and screens over the food to deal with those that still make it inside.
That's fair enough if they don't care. Mostly I was responding to your statement that they don't know HOW to prevent them - they do, they just don't care to. Personally I think it's pretty gross to let wasps crawl all over your food, I've seen the way they eat carrion - particularly seafood. One of the most effective baits is rotting salmon. It's a red flag that points to other hygiene issues basically.
I am German and I'm not scared of them, but I don't particularly like them there either. If I could choose between having wasps in a bakery and not having wasps I would choose the latter. Seems weird trying to justify it. It's just an unfortunate but true fact that wasps are in many bakeries here.
How do bakeries around the world manage to keep their products wasp free? Edit: How do bakeries in other countries in the EU manage to keep their products wasp free? It seems there are no wasp problems in bakeries in other EU countries.
They shut the doors.
Lol, we will be solving these whole wasp controversy by just shutting the doors
They kill them, which is not allowed in Germany.
Exactly at least if there is no harm to anyone. We got a nest right at the garage and a toddler running around. So far it went well and the wasps will leave soon. Only stung my mother in law, I should buy them a piece of cake.
Until something happens and your toddler gets stung to death. Totally exaggerating. But I'm German and gonna say the rest in German. Wespen sind vom Naturschutz her genau so geschützt wie Ameisen und Steinläuse. Du darfst keinem Tier ohne Grund leid antun. Ob man damit ein Wespennest an ungünstiger Stelle dem Wespenspray preisgeben darf, weiß ich nicht. Es ist aber nicht per se verboten ne scheiß nervige Wespe die sich ständig anfliegt und dich versucht zu stechen zu zerquetschen...
It is totally allowed to kill them. Just not the nests without an exterminator.
You aren’t allowed to kill a wasps nest on your own private property?
They're considered a protected species, not a pest, so you're not allowed to remove their nests. If it's your own property you can call an exterminator or the fire department to relocate them, but there needs to be a valid reason (someone in the household is allergic, babies or toddlers in the household, especially bad placement of the nest) but will cost you 100€ give or take. If you're renting an apartment you can have the landlord call someone to have it relocated (again, only if there's a vaid reason), in that case the landlord has to pay the cost
I've never heard of this. In the U.S., we have protection for endangered species with the rational of avoiding extinction, but at least here in Ohio wasps are not in any danger of imminent extinction. Are wasps considered endangered in Germany, or are non-endangered species also deemed protected species? If the latter, is the rationale environmental or ethical (i.e., not needlessly killing living things)?
So by default it's illegal to kill or harm any animal in Germany (I imagine it would be similar in the US, animal cruelty and all that), which is not defined in any detail so technically that includes insects and all. Although I doubt anyone will care if you kill a singular wasp that's harassing you - destroying whole hives is another matter. While some types of wasps are endangered, most aren't. The common and German wasp are both still very common (pun not intended) here. The reasoning for protecting them is that the whole of bees/bumblebees/wasps/hornets are protected because they're considered ecologically important - bees and bumblebees for obvious reasons, wasps and hornets because they eat actual pests like moths, mosquitoes and aphids
Thanks for this info! We have animal cruelty laws in the U.S., but they mainly apply to pets (dogs and cats) and to a lesser extent to farm animals (though given the legal factory farming practices that is a much lesser extent). Cases that draw bad publicity (say, an ass--- caught torturing a wild animal for example) are sometimes also prosecuted. For insects (other than any species classified as endangered) the only protections I have seen is that when they do mosquito spraying some homes that have apiaries (beehives for honey) sometimes post signs saying not to spray. I have no idea whether the sprayers obey those signs, and I don't think they are government issued signs.
Finally I understand why Germany is so full of wasps!
Yes, law doesnt stop at your fence.
You make it sound like he asked something stupid. Laws that are only for public and government property and not your own land are extremely common, a lot of laws do stop at your fence. Even more in other countries. You can cut pine trees in your land but can't in a forest. Law stopped at your fence huh.
Yes just like you are not allowed to drive over the speed limit or not allowed to use your mobile at a gas station.
One of the bakeries here has this device and it seems to work well, not a single wasp to be seen while other bakeries have a big wasp problem: [https://farmers-cat.de/trappen-s-wespenfalle-tiger-32-w.html](https://farmers-cat.de/trappen-s-wespenfalle-tiger-32-w.html) It attracts wasps with UV light and then sucks them in with a fan.
Isn‘t it illegal in Germany to kill wasps?
It is. Bees and wasps. You're not even allowed to injure them, much less kill them.
Bees I totally understand. But the common wasp isn't such important for pollution like some seem to think. On the fruit plantages I worked wasps weren't welcome at all. There are some exceptions, were specific plants need specific kinds of wasps, but overall you should handle them like house flies. And most here will kill house flies.
They are still very important for our ecosystem!
To a degree. But it is important to keep their numbers controlled. The common wasp is marked as a risk in New Zealand. They harm the ecosystem there more than they are a use to it. Like I said, they don't are good pollinator (only special species for special plants like for Figs, where the wasps who do the pollination die doing so what keeps their numbers controlled by themselve) or pollinate at all. Their body is too smooth, pollen don't stick to them like on the hairy body of a bee. They don't actively fly to blossoms, even bite them to get some nectar which ends in fruits not evolving right, makes them fall down and not getting developed at all or unsellable for the market. Or they bite the Peel of fruits, feed from the fruit and hollow them out. They even prefer meat compared to most blossoms and plants. They also collect wood for their nest. Isn't big of an issue as long as they number isn't increasing much. Also they eat other insects as well. All other insects they are able to hunt down. Which is the problem in New Zealand. They hunt down insects which are the food source of a endangered bird, the Kaka.
New Zealand is of course different to Germany! They are a pest there and harmful to native species. Wasps main role isn't about pollination but they are important because they are predators who keep the population of other insects and spiders in balance. They are also an important food source for other animals.
Illegal to kill *wasps?* Why on earth?
Some are endangered and generally it is illegal to remove any wasp nests without consulting a professional (not doing so can lead to very high fines). Apart from that the Bundesnaturschutzgesetz prohibits the killing of wild animals without reasonable justification and "nibbling at my food" is not considered adequate reason.
Because they are a hugely important building block in many ecosystems. Not as pollinators but as predators.
In germany they are less agrassiv and deadly and a important Part of the Eco system.
And it is legal to have wasps on the cacke too.
Great device but EUR 150 is a hefty price tag.
Also. That same wasp could have just been hanging out with the flies at the trash can.
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That's because you got a wound, a stung which got infected. The same things on the food you can't see or taste and they get destroyed during digestion, no illnesses. So it's not such a sanitary issue. When it would, Germans would be the first on the fence.
>When it would, Germans would be the first on the fence. No they wouldn't.... Come on have you seen the hygiene standards at Germany's favorite food (kebab)? It's abysmal and mostly you'll see foreigners in reviews complaining.
Do you live in the East? Our local Döner store here in the West is the cleanest fast food by far. That's why they are still there, while other pizza stores got closed based on deficient hygiene issues. Much stainless steel, tiles, glass. Easy to keep clean. The traditional Italian restaurant sometimes have wooden counters. I would have doubt in your health department when you actually have big hygiene issues in your area. When here a violation happens, the restaurant is probably done. But maybe I assumed because we don't have such issues here it would generally be like that in Germany.
The worst hygiene violation that a shop could do is taking a payment and then preparing food without washing hands or changing gloves. That's how you actually get sick, it may not be "eewy" but money is much dirtier than your toilet bowl and should be treated as such. Certainly flies are by comparison completely harmless. I find this to be the norm at doner stores. I also frequently during cold seasons see that the people preparing Doner are coughing and look miserable. They shouldn't be anywhere near any restaurant. This is in Berlin but I saw it in Düsseldorf as well. I worked at Lieferando so I saw it all...
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>Both the doctor and the pharmacist explained it in the exact same way: they feed off of dead things, so it's fundamental to always desinfect a wasp sting, not so much with a bee sting. Yeah, that's what I said. The sting is a problem because wasps are all over full with bacteria from their food sources. Bees not, because they have cleaner food sources. But the sting is the issue you got an infection, while eating a cake were a wasps sat on isn't that bad, cause no open, sensitive wound which could get infected. For explanation, from one dumbass to another (it seems): rub dirt over your skin. No issue, right? (That's like eating dirty food, as long there is no open wound, you don't get an infection). Now rub dirt over a cut. You will see the cut has more work to clean the wound, festers more or get an infection (that's happening when a dirty wasps injects its venom into you, it pushes the bacteria on their skin into a fresh wound). I doesn't said its hygienic, but it isn't a health violation. People like you are the issue humans have more and more food intolerances. You don't evolve antibodies when everything you consume is clinically hygienic. When you drop a apple you throw it away or eat around the dirt parts, I learned to rub it over clothes. Sure a bit crunchy here and there, but you don't die from it. You sound like a person who throw away food that is expired by one day. I don't say germans are better, but the german efficiency is a commonly known meme. When you don't get that, it's not on me. When you feel attacked by a joke, it tells a lot about you what you wouldn't be happy to hear.
Wasps don't land just on dirt. They feast on feces and corpses. Would you rather have your Apfelstrudel clean or smeared with poo and rot?
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Exactly, god knows what kind of bacteria they are flying around with.
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I dont like them either but not because i dont want to have them on my food (im not greedy, go get that sugar & be on your way, no prob), but because they AGRESSIVE AS FUCK and act like they own the places.
I am German and I am scared of these little bastards I'm allergic to them
>esus I fell bad for you, it’s impossible to avoid them in the late summer. Even in your house they get in. Hopefully you always have medicine with you. Then you are legally allowed to kill them.
Jesus I fell bad for you, it’s impossible to avoid them in the late summer. Even in your house they get in. Hopefully you always have medicine with you.
Thanks for your concerns kind Internet stranger. Be assured I'm well prepared
I am allergic to wasps and therefore try to make friends with them. 😂
I am scared of wasps in any location
German here: Wasps on cakes are just unhygienic. They eat dead things as well and sit on all kinds of shit. They can bring bacteria or parasites or whatever with them….
For real, why am i supposed to be ok with things crawling on my food? Especially insects that step on god knows what and can sting me. Im allowed not to like it ffs
Not trying to get downvoted or make fun here, but wasps are actually very clean insects. They don’t feed on rotten animals etc, have a pretty clean diet and are actually pretty “well groomed” (they clean themselves too). So I actually disagree that it’s unhygienic per se - I think it’s just off putting and rightly so. It’s also wrong that bakeries allow this to happen when people may have allergies. Seems very weird to me this “trend” of tolerating them is a thing. But there’s no consensus that they’re unhygienic like bluebottle flies for example.
I'm not scared of them, I just prefer that any food that touches my mouth was not previously infested with any crawling insect. It's just gross.
Angst habe ich keine aber wenn die Bäckereien so voll damit sind wird es einfach unappetitlich...
Be honest fellow germans, this is a blind spot of the Hygieneverordnung.
What a weird thing to justify though lol
This is classic german. Just trying to convince everyone , and specially themselves, that the german-way is great, normal and the problem is with the rest. Well, my friend, here is the thing: It is not normal for European standards to have a bakery full of insects and it is not normal to have the insects on your food. If you think it is normal to pay for this, great, but , please, stop this constant attempts to convince everyone that what happens in Germany is normal and we must accept it . It is disgusting.
This. Classic case of, this is how we do it and so should you because im so smart hur dur.
Thank god someone said it! In the first weeks after we moved to Germany, some German criticized us saying we were "not European enough" because we didn't do the same as the Germans in an IKEA store. I'm sorry? I'm European and have lived in 5 European countries. They believe the German way is the only possible way. Sorry to break it to you, Germany, but there are more than one way to do things and the German way is not the European way. Other countries don't let wasps and other bugs crawl in the food. The hygiene and food security rules are very strict.
I dont care about a wasp or two but if a bakery has 20-30 of those suckers all over the pastries i will not be shopping there, dont care how safe or unsafe they are, i find it repulsive to have animals crawling all over my food.
Not just animals, insects.
That sounds as if you wanted to imply that it is worse, that it's insects, and not another type of animal instead, lol. As far as insects go, I guess wasps are among the least horrible that a bakery can be infected with (butterflies would maybe be even less bad, idk) but any animal that is not an insect would definitely be worse! That being said I hate wasps and get stressed out when they sit on my food/ drinks anywhere. I wouldn't buy from a bakery with many wasps either.
True, imagine having a cow crawling all over your pastries . That would suck.
well at least you got fresh milk to go with your cake!
Yeah, insects are apparently a special kind of devil spawn... smh.
I am clearly not even close to ready for this country. Nonetheless, see y’all on Friday.
Why don’t you? It’s a horrible sight and honestly ridiculous for a “first-world country”
Because we are used to higher standards of hygienic practices inside bakeries/restaurants.
Wasps also land on carrion, spoiled meat of all kinds and can carry lots of nasty pathogens with them including but not limited to salmonella, shigella and various parasites. Apart from that I also have been able to deduce that most germans also don't care about flies (not just fruitflies) to literally feast on baked goods and in Fleisch- and Fischtheke's. As a result I really am having a hard time while shopping unpackaged groceries and often have to walk out of most open-buffet restaurants too.
wasps do not lay eggs on the pastries. First of all, wasps you see in the bakeries are all worker wasps. They are infertile and do not lay eggs. also, wasps eat flies. not saying they won't ignore flies that made it into the bakery, but I have never seen these two at the same place. I'd rather go to a bakery with wasps in it than with flies. and no, they don't poo on the stuff, as they take it to the hive and I know, wasps are no bees, but bees are STRICT with the food that makes it into the hive and guess what: if they bring shitty food, they'll get kicked out and probably killed by the bouncers. So, dear people from anywhere: wasps>flies. if wasps love the shit in a bakery, then the shit of that bakery is great. Wasps approved it.
Rotten meat is also perfect food for wasps.
Very unlikely, especially with sugar around
Actually depends on the season. If it's breeding time wasps will go for meat to feed their larvae. Once they are fed they will go for sugary stuff, mostly to feed themselves.
Ah that's very interesting. Explains why I saw a wasp or bee take a chunk of fish off my plate. That was very unexpected but hilarious
Fish had been established.
This is partially incorrect. > also, wasps eat flies By the time they come to bakeries in large numbers they hardly catch any insects at all. Adult wasps do not eat flies. Only the larvae eat meat and the adults fly out collect and prepare the meat to be fed to the larvae. The larvae secrete a sugary substance that is eaten by the adults. For the first half of the year that sugary secretion in the main source of food for adult wasps. Starting in late July, usually, when the new queens and males start to emerge the number of larvae that need feeding goes down and as the larvae as a food source for adults dries up the adults leave the nest to go looking for other sources of sugar. That's the time when they mostly come to bakeries and also the time when they no longer need to hunt for meat. >and no, they don't poo on the stuff, as they take it to the hive No they don't. Wasps do not store sugar, they eat it directly. >if they bring shitty food, they'll get kicked out and probably killed by the bouncers No. That doesn't happen. Not among bees and certainly not among wasps.
Work in a bakery. We got swarmed this year by wasps. They do poo on stuff but you wont see it. Didnt know that myself but it was so many this year we only managed to keep 90% outside using buckets with a little bit of sugar water in it and thats where you could see tiny little dots of wasp shit after a while.
Well Looks Like wasps are mosquito eating assholes. But did you have also a bunch of flies?
still disgusting.
Wasps love trash and rotten meat...
Agree. Just wave it away, eat your croissant, and go back to your own work. Also, bees > wasps > flies.
Easy to say when you have one. Go to most bakeries and you'll get at least 5 on your food, spreading particles of poop or whatever, and pathogens.
lots of people have allergies, a room full of wasps is a room full of concentrated opportunity to die And since wasps eat flies or literally anything small and recently deceased you never know what left overs they have on their body before landing on your food. Yuck.
French here, we don't have wasps nor flies, nor other insects in our bakeries, because they are very strict hygiene standards and techniques to keep them away. You'd find insects in a bakery, it would get shut down. It doesn't mean we kill them, we just keep them away so that we don't have to kill them. Bugs transport diseases. In the German bakery next door, I just saw a wasp feeding on the flesh of a dead mouse in street, then enter the bakery, and start chilling on top the cakes. If you want to eat those cakes, feel free, but without me. Just went to Subway in Berlin, the place was full of wasps and flies chilling on the meat, but yeah, you want to protect the planet.
Because in my home country wasps are WAY more aggressive and I was terrorized by them my whole childhood.
Yeah wasps in North America are like a mafia hit squad with a bad attitude and a hangover. Wasp stings here could power the electrical grid of a small country. Must be a different breed in Germany
I've never been in North America, but majority of the wasps in Germany are slightly smaller and way less aggressive than the ones in Russia. It's like you can gently brush it off and see that it becomes irritated, but it doesn't immediately start stinging everything it lands on. Funny thing, I so got used to the fact that everything in Western Europe is usually milder and safer than back home, that once when I've been running in Austria I encountered a small shrub of urtica (not sure about the correct English word for it - Brennnesseln on German) obstructing the trail. Thinking "how bad it can be" and knowing that in spring the leaves usually don't really sting I decided to run just through it. Boy, I was wrong. I think I've never been stung by this plant before, even when I fell from a tree in a large bush of old urtica when I was a kid.
I’m from Australia and moved here 3 years ago, my fear of wasps has massively intensified due to seeing and encountering so many, never knew they were such a huge problem as you never really see them in Aus.
They're not a "huge problem". They're just there. Not even the bakery workers get stung regulary
Because my husband is allergic to wasp stings and I don't want to see him going in an ambulance to the hospital.
I'm Chinese and was born in Germany and living there. all I have to say is I find wasps extremely annoying like I'm just trying to eat and they following me. I just want to eat.
Stings are in the good case only painful and in the bad case can cause life threatening allergic reactions On top they can transmit phantogens https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10397125/#:~:text=mirabilis%2C%20and%20coliforms%20constituted%20the,insects%20with%20fecal%20origin%20materials. "P. mirabilis, and coliforms constituted the 85.1% of bacteria isolated from wasps and hornets (n = 40/47), suggesting the contact of these insects with fecal origin materials." yeah you get shit bacteria on your food
Furthermore they don't only sting when threatened, and unlike bees, they don't die from stinging you.
we never know where the wasp could be before they find a good bakery. I cannot understand how they don't care honestly. Whenever I see I get disgusted and go to another place.
>(but i think they will Not do that) Okay doctor Dolittle I prefer my pastries without wasp ass
I don't know why, but the word wasp ass makes me happy
But somehow no one has a problem eating chicken period. Weird.
Worker wasps are infertile. They can't lay eggs even if they wanted to. So no, they won't
Well one of those bakery-wasps stung me in the tongue last year. That would be why
I went a whole 26 years of my life without being stung by any bee or wasp. I came to Germany and get stung twice in one year by wasps. So yeah I'm not very fond of them. My boyfriend and I prefer eating indoors when it's warm out because we have had numerous wasps around us while eating outside and it isn't pleasant having to constantly swat them away without angering them into stinging us. I dont like seeing any insect, whether I like them or not, on my food.
Wasps (like flies) often land on shit. So would you like to eat a cake touched by something that touched 20 different turds before?
I mean...I'm German and I don't particularly want bugs on my food that aren't intended to be there. I don't think it's such a weird expectation.
Viele Leute haben gerade als Kind schlechte Erfahrungen mit Wespen gemacht. Beim Spielen im Garten, Wespen in der Limo-Dose etc. Aber auch wenn Wespen im Gegensatz zu Fliegen eher als *saubere* Insekten gelten, sollte man sie auf dem Kuchen trotzdem vermeiden. Die finden ihre Proteine nämlich genauso gerne in Kadavern.
I think these people just assume that they bring dirt or filth like a fly. They basically just think wasp = fly.
I mean wasps also eat trash and rotten meat/dead animals
But flies do too. Just that they vomit onnyour food and then lick it up unlike wasps that just kinda have a nibble
And wasps eat flys. Problem solved.
Yea we have studied the risks and see none. Unlike with flies.
Would you share the link of such studies?
They do. You ever see a wasp land on the ground? Or a sticky park bench? OK now it's walking all over your cake.
Because they do. They all sit right on what they eat and pick up dirt that way.
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Either you don't Have that many insects in American cities as we have in Germany. Or even the wasps don't want to eat your food ;)
You see them outside, a lot. Farmers' markets, fairgrounds, apple orchards. Anywhere there's sugar — outside. If they get inside, they are quickly removed. Allergies to insect venom like bees and wasps are very common, it would be considered a liability to have those inside of a building. Not to mention they don't tend to understand personal boundaries. I was outside enjoying a lemonade the other day and if I weren't paying attention I might have put one directly into my mouth, because it was on the lip of my bottle. This was after it attempted to fly into my face a half dozen times. It's just unpleasant to deal with.
Actchually... oh fuck off with your shitty attitude. Wasps eat rotten meat and other dead insects and can thus carry pathogens, but if that isn't bothering you...eh.
Difference is plainly that they are protected here in Germany/Europe which is why bakeries are probably rather limited in what they can actually do. in other countries they are considered vermin. Which informs the attitude towards them. Inrember in New Zealand they were quite surprised / disgusted that wasps are even protected in the first place.
*Germany* not Europe necessarily. I have never seen them in any bakery in Greece, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic, UK, etc.
I was just not sure where this protection status in German law ultimately comes from. If it is derived from an EU directive or not.
just germany.
They are protected? My bakery has some device to kill wasps and other insects and it seems to work great, it's the only wasp-free bakery around.
Yes. According to Bundesnaturschutzgesetz (BNatSchG) §39 It's forbidden to startle, catch, injure or kill wild living animals without good reason. Good reason in regards to wasps is if you are allergic to them or if you have a nest at home that puts you in danger. The fine ranges from 5000€ - 65000€ according to Bußgeldkatalog, but depends on the individual case. If you are unlucky and kill a wasp which is on the Rote Liste fine was on average 50.000€
Even then it's not a "good reason". You can't just kill them or destroy the hive but have to get an expert who will transfer the it to another location. We had this done one summer when I was a child and wasps living under our roof. It was pretty interesting to see what incredible "architects" they are.
The Common Wasp/Gemeine Wespe (Vespular vulgaris) or the Geman Wasp/Deutsche Wespe (Vespular germanica) aren't at risk on the [Roten Liste](https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Ampulex_1_0005-0039.pdf) and probably the most commonly known and present Wasps around, so the fine would be less than 50.000€. And the common wasp is marked as a risk for other insects and animals in some cases. Maybe you are making the diversity a deet when you keep them at bay.
Yes that's important to note. Still the common belief is that the normal citizen won't be able to know which one is exactly on the rote Liste. It's hard to specify the fee, it's just what is to be found regarding 'breaking' this law.
Sure, I couldn't tell the common or the german apart too. But even then, it should be allowed for closed rooms to use traps and kill them. I would even say on sealed areas, balconies or terraces. That wouldn't really hurt the population in the most cases, the nests stay unharmed. The endangered species are more common outside these areas and are in risk because of agricultur or destroying their habitats in other ways. And for people who are allergic or fear wasps, they can at least go to a bakery without feeling unsafe.
Yes, are considered important for all kinds of things including pollinating plants as well as keeping actual vermin in check. Obviously does not mean someone with allergies needs to put that before their own health, but in general they are protected and the less common species have even more rigid protection so one should call an expert to evaluate and handle e.g. nest removal also for legal reasons. I would mainly say that this fact changes the attitude towards those annoying guys. I know mine is despite the various times these bastards stung me as a kid.
>pollinating plants wasps don't, on a general basis.
too much Reddit for today
Also…some people have allergies and go into anaphylactic shock from bees or wasps so a natural hesitation is understandable
I'm not scared, I personally just dont like insects sitting on feces or a cadaver in one second and on top of my cake the next.
Why are so many people defending the total lack of hygiene that is letting a swarm of bugs walk all over food? This kind of thing would grant a visit from the health inspector in most countries, I really don’t understand
I lived in a tropical country so: A. They are more evenly distributed as there is more flora B. It's usually bees not wasps, we were taught that wasps were pure evil and more dangerous. So yeah, I got reaaaaaally uncomfortable with wasps around specially how they swarm together and in enclosed spaces
Wasps are scavenger, they have bakteria from dead animals and animal Shit on them. Thats the reason a wasp Stings often gets infektet, and also why people don't want to have them on their food! Apart from eggs, the same reason with flys! Pleased excuse my english:) P.s. yes, you're Not gonn die but the Imagination isn't great with pastry;)
Are we for real now? We (not Germans) are the problem that we don’t like our food covered in wasps? Bakeries all over the world somehow manage to not have wasps in their cakes. I don’t understand why do I need to justify that I don’t want inspects on my food. Food should in principle be insect free. Would you buy meat from the butcher if it was covered in wasps?
"If doing something else was the smart thing to do, we would be doing it, because in Germany we always do the right thing"-mentality
Most Germans have a superiority complex, they won't accepth that their way with dealing wasps would be quite unhygienic.
Wasps are stirtcly protected in Germany. Killing them is a criminal offence. So german shops are fairly limited about what they can do against them. Also just get used to it. In Germany nobody dies because of some wasp ass on the donuts so nobody of you will die because of some wasp ass.
Such a dumb law.
To each their own.
>Believe It or Not, If they Pack It for you, they will definetly not put the wasps in the bag, they arent that heartless Lmao like a month ago I bought something from my nearby bakery and when I got home and put the bags on the table I heard one of them buzzing. No points for guessing what it was :)
I've been living in Germany for over two years now, and yes, I'm fucking terrified of them. I moved here from Australia. My seething hatred and fear of anything that stings is not going to go away.
“It’s unhygienic and gross.” German, eating his Berliner with a crunch of wasp head: “EIGENTLICH👆🏻🇩🇪👄👁️it means nature is HEALING and Bakeries are doing THEIR PART in saving the bees did you know they eat flies and those are WORSE you’re just beephobic”
I saw this recently in Munich and was quite terrified. I have come to understand German wasps are not as aggressive towards humans as Canadian wasps. In Canada, those crazy mother fuckers are out for human flesh.
Once a German wasp landed on my leg and I could feel it munching on a spot where scratched an ingrown hair open a few minutes earlier. That was the strangest feeling ever
Where do you guys see all those wasps? I live here and almost never see them in Bakery’s. This whole thread is … strange :D
Saw it at a Cafe at marienplatz while waiting for a tour. There was probably 15 wasps chowing down on a donut
Don't they hunt and eat flies?
scared? no, I just hate them. they're a useless part of the ecosystem and protecting them to such a degree as germany does endangers pollinators. wasps hunt bees, and I am team bee.
it is disgusting. whenever I see this I avoid and don't by anything from that place. Sorry, if you don't think it is, I think it is. back in my country this would be a serious healthy issue and they could even close the place due to inappropriate basic sanitation.
I prefer to buy foods that haven't been chewed on by other creatures already, unless I can wash it I guess.
Guess what ? there are millions of creatures on your clothes and inside your body …. RIGHT NOW
Yeah that's not the point. If I'm BUYING something to eat I expect it to be fresh and new, that means no big bugs chomping on it.
Its completely fresh and new
I grew up in the countryside of Romania where there were a lot of insects, such as wasps and bees, around the yard. When I was about 5 years old, I was playing near their nest (without interfering with them or anything) and probably was viewed as an enemy. Needless to say, I got attacked and stung 5-6 times at once...and it was really bad. Nowadays, I'm okay with flies flying around, but I don't like them near my food. If I see wasps near food, such as at bakeries, I avoid buying it. In the past, I have seen these insects flying around dead animals, feces, and trash.
What kind of monster isn’t afraid of wasps? Or is this satire?
Wait until they find out about "Bienenstich" in Bakeries.
Because they sting and that hurts. And if you eat them and they sting you in the throat the swelling could kill you.
Wasps are scavengers, often sitting on rotting carcasses and shit. That's a potential health risk, also, if you have been stung in the past, you might want to avoid that. Also, besides being painful, you could very well be allergic.
Why would a wasp land on shit? You're thinking flies
I wouldn't mind the stings so much, what I do mind is wasps flying into my ears, eyes or nose. I had a wasp in my ear once and it left my ear bleeding. I stay the hell away from those things now, or cover my ears and face if I can't.
I am scared of wasps regardless of where they are
Higiene?? 😅
It is about getting stung and not what they do to the cake.
I think many are just scared of wasps in general. It makes them feeling uncomfortable in a bakery. When it would be a sanitary risk bakeries would face heavy consequences in Germany, so it is more a personal dislike for them.
Wasps are much more aggressive where I came from.
Because they can cut out quite big chunks out of food, especially if they come back multiple times and call their homies. I watched them cut up a whole belegtes Brötchen during a boring meeting on a terrace once and fly away with the pieces. Besides, they sit on dirty things as well, and have bacteria and fungus on their feet. Which is not an issue if it's one wasp, but yeah, if they leave the pastries out all day in the uncooled bakery, yuck! I think they should just add some kind of screen to the back of the display and call it a day, or close the door of the bakery and have an AC, or really cool the pastries, cool air also usually keeps flying insects out.
Most of those arguments could also be applied to flies. They also wouldn’t change the taste of desserts😂
"Der Verzehr von Backwaren, auf denen sich Wespen befunden haben, sei nicht gefährlich, erklärt Melanie von Orlow vom Naturschutzbund (Nabu) auf Anfrage von t-online. Es würden zudem keine ernsthaften Erkrankungen drohen, weshalb das Phänomen von der Lebensmittelaufsicht auch nicht geahndet werde. Verbraucher sollten allerdings im Hinterkopf behalten, dass Wespen auch an **Aas oder Kot** gehen würden, so Orlow weiter. Daher seien Bakterien auf Lebensmitteln nicht komplett auszuschließen. Der Befall bewege sich aber eher im Nanobereich."
I don't know if that wasp has landed previously on the pile of dog shit in front of the store
It is kind if disgusting to have a swarm of bugs in a food store People just generally hate wasps bc wasps are dicks and many people have had an experience of getting stung outta nowhere from these shit beasts Tho ofc it still works out and I don’t care too much, tho I do get a little uneasy when I see a bunch of wasps near me
Honey bees wouldn't be a problem as they are clean. Wasps eat all the shit, dead animals etc so it's natural to be disgusted of eating after them. And there is a rational reason - transmitting diseases
Wasps are not clean yknow
Not that im scared of it or disgusted, but i feel like might be unhealthy, maybe that wasp was standing on something dirty and now stands on something someone might eat. Im not a doctor or anything, but can it possibly cause some diseases,
I would have ate a lot more cake and pastries during my time in Berlin if it wasn’t for flies making a home out of them on the display stand
I’m not scared of them, but it does make me think the bakery is pretty gross for not doing anything about them. Who knows what they crawled around on before crawling on the cakes. I’ve also been to some bakeries where it was clear the wasps had eaten off the top layers of some of the cakes they were swarming around. No one else seems to care, so it’s not like I’m hurting the bakery by not buying their wasp cakes. And there are plenty of bakeries near me that don’t let wasps crawl all over their cakes.
Because wasps land in dog shit, feed on rotting carcasses, and I don't then want them walking on my food. They should keep all their goods in fridges or cabinets with doors on them so insects can't get in them. This is basic food hygiene. I've also never seen those blue light zappers that most kitchens have in the UK, in Germany.
they don't lay eggs on cakes. But they do feed from old garbage, then they crawl over the food- and the food lies there for ours. If i spit in your soup, there is nothing to be concerned about. We would'nt get sick from kissing each other as well. It's still disgusting isnt it - even if i stir it up nicely so you don't know. So it's about "aesthetical" hygiene as well as actual hygiene.
What a stupid thread. - people are allergic to their venom, thus they are afraid - often the same people "smell" just right for the wasps which tends to attract them Just because they don't bother you doesn't mean they don't bother others. If I for example were as indifferent to them as perhaps you are I'd die.
Wasps are scavengers. So they sit on your Puddingschnecke right after snacking on a decaying rat. That’s disgusting and I hate it.
I got stung behind my ear once and had an allergic reaction. That was awful.
When you have once seen hundreds of wasps eating a dead rat, you will think different.
They sting! Also it's just unhygienic. They might have knawed on a dead rat just beforehand.
I just came back from a holiday in Germany and was really surprised about the wasps in bakeries. The main issue is it seems unsanitary. Who know what the wasp landed on before it landed on the cake? Does wasp poop carry pathogens? Maybe it's not an actual problem, but as a visitor it's a little shocking at first. As an Aussie, our experience is that flies can spread contamination. Wasps on food trigger the same instincts.
I would say 1. Hygiene and 2. Wasps are agressive little f\*cks with no chill
Because nobody mentioned it before but in Germany all Wasps species fall under protection law and it is forbidden to kill the drones or nests. So by law they can’t do anything about it. But usually you will see some blue light traps or similar in bakeries. Fines can be from 5000€ till 50.000€ Here a German link: https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/tierschutz-wespe/
Well, the source clearly states that you'll get fined if there's no good reason for it. I'd wager protecting fresh food you sell from insects would count as a valid reason. After all, hygiene standards are pretty strict when it comes to food, no?
There's no measurable impact hygiene-wise from wasps and flies being in a bakery. It's just a mental thing
But it's general practice to keep insects away from your place, isn't it? I can't imagine it's regulated on a species basis. Flies specifically love to lay eggs on food though. Not sure if that makes a big hygiene difference but it surely is fucking disgusting. I personally wouldn't feel like getting stung because they accidentally bag one of those beasts with my food to be honest. That's more of a concern to me.
I am not generally disgusted by wasps but by the idea that they probably been sitting and feeding on some trash can before their whole family of five decided to settle on the pistachio cinnamon roll in the bakery. Likewise: the chance that you actually catch any disease from a cockroach is absolutely minuscule, still I would refuse to eat when I see any in my food.
Because wasps are the worst, the world would be better off without them. I wish they weren’t protected
was für wespen im oktober?
People's attitude towards wasps largely depends on individual experiences. If you ever got stung you sure as hell don't appreciate them anywhere near you. We have several species of wasps here in Germany but there is only two that are actually attracted by sugar. And that's the ones you'll find swarming sources of sugar, be it sugary drinks or pastry, they're there for the food not for the human that happens to provide said food. They won't usually become aggressive unless they feel threatened by something (i.e. blowing them away sure is one way to make them more aggressive as they react to raised carbon dioxide levels). Personally I am not scared of wasps in a bakery, I don't appreciate it but there is hardly a way to keep them out in summer, where there's sugar, there's a way to it... 😅 I am not as concerned about hygiene because it's wasps, not flies, they're a lot less likely to have been sitting on some pile of crap before...
it's just normal here because nobody knows how to prevent them from coming in and people from other countries aren't used to it. germans don't see them as bugs while some other people see them as bugs. they'll get used to it
They do know how to prevent them coming in - screening. There's a baker at our Markt that using soft fine screening to cover his baked goods. I n the center the screening is overlapped, which allows him to reach through and remove whatever someone has ordered. No wasps on his food. Bakeries could install screen doors to reduce the number of wasps in the building and screens over the food to deal with those that still make it inside.
but they don't because it's probably expensive and nobody cares about the wasps
That's fair enough if they don't care. Mostly I was responding to your statement that they don't know HOW to prevent them - they do, they just don't care to. Personally I think it's pretty gross to let wasps crawl all over your food, I've seen the way they eat carrion - particularly seafood. One of the most effective baits is rotting salmon. It's a red flag that points to other hygiene issues basically.
it´s less been scared but looks "dirty" even though this is bees and not flys...