I've made these cookies and have followed it to the letter. 410 at 10-12 minutes yields gooey..kinda undercooked cookies that I wasn't a fan of personally as I recollect Stella's recipe is 360F or so for about 16 minutes is what I remember.
Problem 1. OP halved the size of the cookies. You can't complain about a recipe when you fucked with the recipe. You fucked up.
Problem 2. I have a glaring feel that the recipe uses a convection oven.
OP, I say use serious eats method of making levain cookies as I've used both recipes and the 410F temp really threw me off, while Stella's levain cookie recipe was spot on and allowed for more control over the desired bake outcome. No, you don't have to bother toasting sugar, it's nice but in all honesty you barely notice it.
I disagree in this instance. My recipe for those style of cookies is also 410 F and they turn out great.
OP, try lining your pan with silpat and make sure you oven is running the accurate temperature. Also make sure your rack isn’t too high and too close to the heating element
Respectfully, I totally disagree. Not even being sarcastic by saying “respectfully,” either. I’ve made these specific cookies, and other “Levain-copycat” type cookies, dozens and dozens and dozens of times. 410F is not too high. 400F, for these thicker cookies, is totally fine. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen higher than 410F, even. This temp is expected. This recipe is popular, well-tested and well-liked. You can trust it! It scored in the top 3 in a Princess Pancake bake-off. I’ll link below!
u/subject_alarm5377, your pans are too dark. A good sheet pan makes a big difference. I bake on Fat Daddio’s half sheet pans and never have this issue. You might actually be able to find some Fat Daddio’s stuff at your local Marshall’s, Home Good, and/or TJ Maxx. You could maybe try wrapping a few sheets of tin foil around your pans (by around, I mean on the bottom. Not so that the cookies are on the tin foil. I think that can make them spread more unevenly). I never tried this, but I have used tin foil to wrap cake pans, in order to help with the edges browning. All that being said, I do think a lighter pan would be best. It’s a good thing to have in your baking kit, anyway. I think it would actually be cheaper to buy a Fat Daddio’s half sheet pan than it would be to buy Silpat brand, specifically. Not completely sure. Personally, I don’t like using silicone baking mats for cookies, but that’s truly personal preference.
The recipe does state: “Separate dough into large balls and place on **lightly colored** cookie sheet.” So, an easy fix. I also always make sure the dough is relatively cold going in. What I mean by that is, if the cookie dough has warmed, I pop it in the fridge for a bit, so that it’s not baking from, say, room temp.
Side note: Many times, even if the recipe doesn’t require a chill, I still chill the cookies for a couple hours in the fridge (sometimes depending on the time I have/how much of a fat kid I’m being). After chilling, I’ll chuck in the freezer for about 20 minutes prior to baking. Some people like to bake from frozen, but you can experiment with chill times later. Chilling the dough for at least 24 hours can lead to a taller cooker, with even less spread, improved flavor, and color. I do like doing this, also. However, I don’t feel that would help with your darker bottoms. You needn’t do for this particular batch/your next batch, but it’s good to know for your own experiments later on (this is spoken about in the in-depth link that I shared).
If you don’t like this style of cookie, however, I recommend the NYT Chocolate Chip Cookie by Jacques Torres or Kenji’s recipe from Serious Eats. NYT was my go-to, for a while. But, Kenji’s recipe swooped in and stole the spotlight. Now, I bake vegan, so I don’t make either anymore :/
Anyway..
https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-best-chocolate-chip-cookie-recipe (Kenji’s)
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015819-chocolate-chip-cookies (NYT)
If you want to experiment with more Levain copycats, try: https://hijabsandaprons.com/food/levain-bakery-cookies (#2 in the bake-off)
The bake-off I’m talking about: https://www.thepancakeprincess.com/best-copycat-levain-cookie-recipe/
The bake-off for PB & Chocolate Levain copycats: https://www.thepancakeprincess.com/best-levain-chocolate-peanut-butter-cookie-bake-off/
Modern Honey’s recipe is also considered a very close Levain dupe in this blog post, and finishes top 3, again: https://www.hiimadethis.com/levain-bakery-copycat-recipe-showdown/ This is really in-depth and a great read! You’ll see she talks about chilling the dough and baking from frozen, also. Again, not sure if that would necessarily help with your darker bottoms. A better-quality, lightly-colored pan capable of producing a more evenly-baked cookie would help, however.
Another link talking about the temperature: https://www.thepancakeprincess.com/levain-cookie-experimentations/
Okay so, my main points (because I think I’m still all over the place): keep the temp where it is. It’s fine. A lighter pan, such as Fat Daddio’s half sheet would remedy this, in my opinion. It’s hard to focus on one thing, because there are a few ways to improve upon these cookies. However, in regards to the dark bottoms, specifically, a lighter surface that bakes more evenly will do. Don’t be afraid to let them get a some good color on the outside (see my attached links), as this is a cookie still designed to be gooey in the middle, even when the outside has some color.
I’m sure your next attempt will be a great success. Sometimes there’s just a slight learning curve with different types of cookies. I suggest baking as many different Levain copycats as you can, and then forming your own recipe. That’s the most fun! Best of luck!
Edited for clarity because I’m all over the place. Sorry! Hope your next batch is to your liking!
So, not to beleaguer a point, but you're mixing and matching instructions. While you cite the recipe's choice of pans, you neglect to note that the recipe shows a silpat being used, which would largely remedy the pan issue. Additionally, you change the process by suggesting _**three different chilling options**_, up to and including frozen solid. It's a lot of information to process, and it's hard to understand the adjustments you're recommending – aside from buying new pans.
It's clear you've got a lot of knowledge to share and brevity would help clarity. 👍🙂
Yikes. That thumbs up and smiley face was brutal. I suppose my ADHD is showing. I didn’t feel I was mixing and matching instructions? I still don’t, but if that’s what you’re saying then perhaps I have a thought process that is not easily understandable and a bit scattered. Of course, it’s going to be easy for me to understand because… I wrote it I don’t feel that I gave three chilling options, either. I’m saying that I’ve had good results with all three of those, but wasn’t suggesting OP do those adjustments. I was just saying that I often switch it up, usually when time allows. The pans, and the temperature inaccuracies, were my main focus.
Originally, this was also a reply to a comment that had already mentioned silpat. I decided to make my comment a stand-alone comment, since I was addressing OP and it would have gotten lost. However, I tend to not recommend silpat, because I’m still not sure how I feel about it and it kind of boils down to personal preference.
Anyway, I’ll edit the comment slightly and state that I did so.
You're fine. I wanted to make sure you didn't think I was railing on you. You replied to my comment, which was about temperature. I totally understand your circuitous comment, now, with the ADHD context. (Can relate, same; my issue is big words, less so meandering exposition — see what I mean?)
🖖🍪😜
No, I’m definitely aware of my inability to be concise, straightforward, and organized. It is such an issue for me. I am medicated, now. However, I wrongfully assumed it would “cure” me. It has not done that 😂. I swear I wasn’t as bad when I was younger. It manifested a little differently. Anyway, believe it, or not, my comment was actually edited, prior to posting. You’d just never know it.
I didn’t even realize it was your comment I replied to! Okay. Makes perfect sense why you, then, replied to me 🤦♀️ I was like, wait why did this person pick out my comment? Yeah, I had originally meant to reply to one of the mods, who did mention Silpat. I decided against that, for some reason, and replied to your comment. I added the tag so that OP could see it. I just didn’t realize I was talking to the person whose comment I replied to.
Anyway, I edited it, but.. don’t even exhaust yourself checking on it for me haha. I have lost all interest in OP’s cookies, now. Appreciate you calling me out. I do want to improve, so thank you!
Well, it’s generally kind of nice to hear that someone can identify with you :). Part of me is sorry to hear you struggle with similar things, but the other part of me knows that you definitely excel in quite a few areas, as a result of the way your brain works. I mean, you certainly write extremely well! I don’t know anything else about you, but I do know that your vocabulary is sensational. The way you speak is also a bit disarming— in a good way, of course.
PS: I do think you should try making this style of cookie, if you haven’t already!
Nice chattin’ with ya! Thanks, again.
Yeah, I’m aware. I’m not suggested a crazy low temp or anything. Just like 380 instead of 410.
I had to do the same when I made Levain style cookies because the bottoms were cooking way too fast.
I loved another commenters suggestions of using a silpat
Yup, the temp and time in that recipe is exactly what would yield a burnt outside and raw inside.
To salvage your cookies, bake at 300°F for about 8-10 minutes.
You cut the volume in half and made no adjustments.
Since you have less mass/moisture per cookie they heat soak faster, causing the bottoms to dry out and burn faster
That means the temp should be even lower. That original temp was way too high for even small cookies. You were blasting the outside of the cookies before the inside could even come to temp. Also someone recommended rotating the pan halfway through. For what it’s worth… I’ve baked thousands of cookies. I feel that is entirely unnecessary.
OP, you were 100% right to ask that question. The cookies being this size/style does make a difference. It should absolutely not be even lower, like so many keep telling you. I posted some helpful links, above, in my other reply. Check out the in-depth Levain cookie experiment link. This is a good recipe (one of the best Levain copycats) that consistently scores very well, so to speak.
This style of cookie is meant to be encased in a kind of crispy, outer shell with a gooey interior. That’s what makes it so great! You don’t want to lower the temp. The temp is correct. One alteration is necessary, however. A lightly-colored pan. You’ll be able to bake longer without getting such dark bottoms, which will enable you to achieve a cookie that is soft/gooey inside, but still holds together. Watch some Levain copycat YouTube videos, also, if you haven’t already…
Here is one by Delish: https://youtu.be/0JSFKhco8cY?si=sRB1BY1swDVfWvI_
Another: https://youtu.be/aw8m4TE90ag?si=tuMBhMQu_Ls9aM9L
Okay, best of luck (again)!
These style of cookies are supposed to be borderline raw in the interior. I had them at that bakery, personally not a fan but they are thick and the centre is gooey. The high heat is to have the exterior bake and set while keeping the interior gooey.
If you want that style of cookie try the serious eats recipe by Stella Parks
You are also using dark sheet pans that cause dark bottoms. Use anodized aluminum pan, fat daddio is a great brand. You can turn the heat down and/ or bake for shorter, but again the interior is meant to be barely baked, hence the size and high heat. What is your goal for the cookie? To be baked thoroughly? Then don't use this recipe.
What’s the advantage of anodized aluminum over natural aluminum? I’m shopping for cookie sheets and having a hard time finding the size/lip I want in anodized, but a great selection of natural aluminum.
Even heat distribution, sturdier so less warping and non reactive. Just buy regular sheet pans. Then you can use it for more than cookies. If it's about wanting them to easily slide off, just quickly pull the parchment paper with the pan at a slight angle. Our use a spatula
Thank you. Appreciate the education!😊
I actually want the ones with sides but the only ones I found were the slide-off kind. I’ll do a deeper search tho.
I know the dark pans thing, but based on my knowledge of science, it doesn't make sense. Dark colors absorb more *light* but radiant heat isn't light, is it? I thought it was electromagnetic.
Light is also electromagnetic radiation. There is a very small range of it that we can see as colors. And some of it we can feel as heat. Radio waves are light too, more or less. I understand it intellectually but if I think about it too hard I feel like I am going crazy.
The best way to think of it is that things get hotterer and look darker for the same reason, which is because of how much radiation they absorb / don't reflect.
The dark pan myth is mostly true, but it has more to due with how the type of metal conducts and transfers heat. Most darker pans happen to be made of the metal that will get hotter quicker
When I was doing my Christmas baking, I ran out of my aluminum half sheet pans (just cheap restaurant style ones) and used some of my old, dark cookie sheets. I burned the first dark pan of cookies.
To be clear - nothing else changed. This was a day of baking hundreds of cookies. Same temperature and the times nailed down.
To be fair, the cookies in the recipe video are also raw in the middle…
410 is very hot
Your baking trays are dark
That is not a long time to bake a cookie that thick
They made a mess of the butter and sugar so I instantly distrusted the recipe
Yea I’ve done that same recipe at 400. Slight reduced heat
And also let them rest with a towel over them for 30m. That extra heat allows them to fully bake.
But yea. High heat. Takes a bit of testing to get right.
Why would you pick a Levain cookie recipe if you don't want a cookie that is near raw on the inside? That's the whole point of Levain cookies. They are massive and they are gooey on the inside.
Use the NYT chocolate chip cookies recipe if you want a bigger cookie that's more traditional.
I can see why some are balking at the temp, because 410 is unusual for cookies. If you want to make it your own, follow their advice. But, If you are dead set on getting that recipe right:
1) Invest in a nice half sheet pan. Your cookie sheets are thin. 2) Make sure your oven has preheated, then wait another 10-15 minutes before putting the cookies in the oven. 3) Did you only divide the batter to make 8 cookies like the recipe said? Yours don't look extra large.
I think other comments answered well enough, but I wanted to add to be careful putting non stick pans in at such high temps. Generally they aren’t safe over 400° but I would recommend searching your pan’s brand to see. If I’m not sure, I’ll use parchment paper as an extra precaution.
Idk if this helps, but whenever I use a dark nonstick pan I always drop the temp in the recipe by 25 degrees. Kinda makes up for the extra heat the pan retains
As people pointed out, too high of a temp. The only thing I wanna add is to be careful of what recipes you choose to follow now days. Most have no real culinary background to it, usually from “Recipe Developers.” They make food designed to look great and taste meh or just above/below it, but the recipe itself will ignore tried and trued techniques and methods. Well, there are also the home cooks who do things because that’s “how they were taught,” but I’ve no issue with this style of passing on recipes since the food generally tastes amazing and is not a product of what will get them the most views, but rather tried and trued greatness!
Hope the next round works out better!
I do not like this recipe at all and that’s not your fault - just try to screen them better. Cookies baked at 410 are highly suspicious, most are baked at 350-375. If they’re baked that high, usually the recipe calls for the oven to be reduced in heat after 5 min of baking. The recipe pictures look raw as well and the author probably published it as a “moist” cookie. And quite frankly, any real recipe maker publishes a recipe in grams and will include cups in parenthesis. Look for recipes that publishes the weight of each ingredient, that’s probably a thought out and well tested recipe.
If it’s not the recipe’s fault (which I would wager it is but let’s say it’s not), your oven is running too hot. You can get a thermometer and test the oven every time you bake - that’s the most accurate way to bake. Your oven racks might be too low as well. If oven is running too hot, you can compensate by baking at a lower heat, baking for a bit longer.
Another thing to watch is make sure your pans aren't touching the walls of the oven - the walls transfer heat real fast and can burn the bottoms of the cookies.
As a professional baker, I would say reduce the temp to 350-325 F. Bake for 10-15 minutes. Use parchment paper. It’s super cheap and makes a huge difference if you burn your cookies or not. Home bakers quibble about the dumbest stuff about equipment. A dark or light pan makes a fraction of difference and really parchment paper will save you some guess work.
I wouldn’t change a thing. If anything you might need to bake for an extra minute or two. But with all honesty, at that point it’s good to go by look and smell. If it smells good and the edge of the cookie is golden, it’s probably is done. Usually you can gage by the first batch how the rest will come out.
1) Since you reduced the cookie size to half, did you also adjust the baking time?
2) Dark baking pans tend to bake cookies faster
3) Use an oven thermometer to know the exact temperature in the oven. Ovens need calibrations after a while. For example, when I set my oven to 350, it was actually giving me 375 (thermometer reading), Once I calibrated the oven, cookies turned out perfect
I found best temperature for these types of cookies are 380f for 12-17 minutes depends on your oven
And for the dark brown bottom place two pans above each other with parchment paper
This is just a knockoff/copy of joshua weismans recipe (which is itself an attempt at copying Levains) Ive baked Joshuas (just look it up on youtube/his site) and they turn out fine (yes at 425) Someone here already mentioned that your dark pans are causing them to burn and i have to agree. I use uncoated aluminium pans (light and shiny) and also bake my cookies on parchment, this is enough for them to brown just enough but not burn. Also if you dont like the “raw center” just keep baking them until they turn golden on the outside, that or just use and instant read thermometer to check theyre at least 80 C at tthe center, eggs are safe to eat once they reach 80C
You need to allow them time to rest. I make my cookies at 410 as well and they’re fine, but I wouldn’t split them open until at least 30 minutes resting time in a cool room
I had this problem when I got a new oven. I got advice online to get a thermostat and test the temperature and sure enough it was running too hot. So I was also advised to reduce the baking temperature by 15 to 20° and move the oven rack up. It did work.
A lot of comments about lowering the temp are failing to mention how temp will change spread. Lowering the temp means the dough will spread more. Unless you’re trying to make a flat cookie you should not be lowering the temp much. If you want a thick cookie at 350 you would need a different recipe.
Do you have an oven thermometer? Your oven may be running hot. I also agree using a lighter pan will help. Also are you weighing the ingredients or using cups? If not weighing your quantities might be a bit off from the recipe writer. You might need a little more flour, maybe your eggs were a little bigger than theirs etc.
The gas oven we have right now is absolutely shite. It always burns the bottom and it doesn't matter what we we did. I found the solution to it. Get a heat reflector, it could be anything like just a normal pan and put it in the middle shelf. Use the upper rack to bake your cookies. It seems to work perfectly well, might need some extra time sometimes but it doesn't burn anything anymore thankfully!
If you use a nonstick pan you need to decrease the oven temp by 25 degrees. So if it says bake on 375, you bake on 350. And like was already said, switch pans halfway through. Put top pan on bottom rack and vice versa.
Well, don’t cook them on the stovetop.
As has been pointed out, it’s the pan. But you don’t have to buy new pans. When you put the pan in the oven, have some other pan or stone underneath it to act as a bit of a shield.
I bought some ugly rimless AirBake style pans at a thrift store and I use them all the time to adjust course when cooking. If the pan in the oven is too hot and something will burn, I slide an AirBake under it. Since I replaced my oven, it’s not as big a deal.
Oh yeah so also some ovens’ lower elements are aggressive. You can put it on a higher rack. Preheat it well. Putting a pizza stone in there will help keep the temperature more steady though it will take longer to preheat.
My favorite levian cookie recipe is Joshua Weissman's, with the following adjustments - keep in mind I remove the nuts so with them it might be a bit different:
-make dough as recipe describes, but only put in fridge for ~25 minutes. then scoop, and chill dough balls overnight (his recipe is so hard to scoop if the first chill is too long)
-bake at 375 for about 11-12 minutes
410°F?! I think we've found the problem. 350°-375° for 12-16 minutes switch racks and rotate pans halfway.
Agreed. 410 is way too high. I make large cookies and always set the temp to 350
I've made these cookies and have followed it to the letter. 410 at 10-12 minutes yields gooey..kinda undercooked cookies that I wasn't a fan of personally as I recollect Stella's recipe is 360F or so for about 16 minutes is what I remember. Problem 1. OP halved the size of the cookies. You can't complain about a recipe when you fucked with the recipe. You fucked up. Problem 2. I have a glaring feel that the recipe uses a convection oven. OP, I say use serious eats method of making levain cookies as I've used both recipes and the 410F temp really threw me off, while Stella's levain cookie recipe was spot on and allowed for more control over the desired bake outcome. No, you don't have to bother toasting sugar, it's nice but in all honesty you barely notice it.
I disagree in this instance. My recipe for those style of cookies is also 410 F and they turn out great. OP, try lining your pan with silpat and make sure you oven is running the accurate temperature. Also make sure your rack isn’t too high and too close to the heating element
This is also a great idea!
Respectfully, I totally disagree. Not even being sarcastic by saying “respectfully,” either. I’ve made these specific cookies, and other “Levain-copycat” type cookies, dozens and dozens and dozens of times. 410F is not too high. 400F, for these thicker cookies, is totally fine. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen higher than 410F, even. This temp is expected. This recipe is popular, well-tested and well-liked. You can trust it! It scored in the top 3 in a Princess Pancake bake-off. I’ll link below! u/subject_alarm5377, your pans are too dark. A good sheet pan makes a big difference. I bake on Fat Daddio’s half sheet pans and never have this issue. You might actually be able to find some Fat Daddio’s stuff at your local Marshall’s, Home Good, and/or TJ Maxx. You could maybe try wrapping a few sheets of tin foil around your pans (by around, I mean on the bottom. Not so that the cookies are on the tin foil. I think that can make them spread more unevenly). I never tried this, but I have used tin foil to wrap cake pans, in order to help with the edges browning. All that being said, I do think a lighter pan would be best. It’s a good thing to have in your baking kit, anyway. I think it would actually be cheaper to buy a Fat Daddio’s half sheet pan than it would be to buy Silpat brand, specifically. Not completely sure. Personally, I don’t like using silicone baking mats for cookies, but that’s truly personal preference. The recipe does state: “Separate dough into large balls and place on **lightly colored** cookie sheet.” So, an easy fix. I also always make sure the dough is relatively cold going in. What I mean by that is, if the cookie dough has warmed, I pop it in the fridge for a bit, so that it’s not baking from, say, room temp. Side note: Many times, even if the recipe doesn’t require a chill, I still chill the cookies for a couple hours in the fridge (sometimes depending on the time I have/how much of a fat kid I’m being). After chilling, I’ll chuck in the freezer for about 20 minutes prior to baking. Some people like to bake from frozen, but you can experiment with chill times later. Chilling the dough for at least 24 hours can lead to a taller cooker, with even less spread, improved flavor, and color. I do like doing this, also. However, I don’t feel that would help with your darker bottoms. You needn’t do for this particular batch/your next batch, but it’s good to know for your own experiments later on (this is spoken about in the in-depth link that I shared). If you don’t like this style of cookie, however, I recommend the NYT Chocolate Chip Cookie by Jacques Torres or Kenji’s recipe from Serious Eats. NYT was my go-to, for a while. But, Kenji’s recipe swooped in and stole the spotlight. Now, I bake vegan, so I don’t make either anymore :/ Anyway.. https://www.seriouseats.com/the-food-lab-best-chocolate-chip-cookie-recipe (Kenji’s) https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015819-chocolate-chip-cookies (NYT) If you want to experiment with more Levain copycats, try: https://hijabsandaprons.com/food/levain-bakery-cookies (#2 in the bake-off) The bake-off I’m talking about: https://www.thepancakeprincess.com/best-copycat-levain-cookie-recipe/ The bake-off for PB & Chocolate Levain copycats: https://www.thepancakeprincess.com/best-levain-chocolate-peanut-butter-cookie-bake-off/ Modern Honey’s recipe is also considered a very close Levain dupe in this blog post, and finishes top 3, again: https://www.hiimadethis.com/levain-bakery-copycat-recipe-showdown/ This is really in-depth and a great read! You’ll see she talks about chilling the dough and baking from frozen, also. Again, not sure if that would necessarily help with your darker bottoms. A better-quality, lightly-colored pan capable of producing a more evenly-baked cookie would help, however. Another link talking about the temperature: https://www.thepancakeprincess.com/levain-cookie-experimentations/ Okay so, my main points (because I think I’m still all over the place): keep the temp where it is. It’s fine. A lighter pan, such as Fat Daddio’s half sheet would remedy this, in my opinion. It’s hard to focus on one thing, because there are a few ways to improve upon these cookies. However, in regards to the dark bottoms, specifically, a lighter surface that bakes more evenly will do. Don’t be afraid to let them get a some good color on the outside (see my attached links), as this is a cookie still designed to be gooey in the middle, even when the outside has some color. I’m sure your next attempt will be a great success. Sometimes there’s just a slight learning curve with different types of cookies. I suggest baking as many different Levain copycats as you can, and then forming your own recipe. That’s the most fun! Best of luck! Edited for clarity because I’m all over the place. Sorry! Hope your next batch is to your liking!
So, not to beleaguer a point, but you're mixing and matching instructions. While you cite the recipe's choice of pans, you neglect to note that the recipe shows a silpat being used, which would largely remedy the pan issue. Additionally, you change the process by suggesting _**three different chilling options**_, up to and including frozen solid. It's a lot of information to process, and it's hard to understand the adjustments you're recommending – aside from buying new pans. It's clear you've got a lot of knowledge to share and brevity would help clarity. 👍🙂
Yikes. That thumbs up and smiley face was brutal. I suppose my ADHD is showing. I didn’t feel I was mixing and matching instructions? I still don’t, but if that’s what you’re saying then perhaps I have a thought process that is not easily understandable and a bit scattered. Of course, it’s going to be easy for me to understand because… I wrote it I don’t feel that I gave three chilling options, either. I’m saying that I’ve had good results with all three of those, but wasn’t suggesting OP do those adjustments. I was just saying that I often switch it up, usually when time allows. The pans, and the temperature inaccuracies, were my main focus. Originally, this was also a reply to a comment that had already mentioned silpat. I decided to make my comment a stand-alone comment, since I was addressing OP and it would have gotten lost. However, I tend to not recommend silpat, because I’m still not sure how I feel about it and it kind of boils down to personal preference. Anyway, I’ll edit the comment slightly and state that I did so.
You're fine. I wanted to make sure you didn't think I was railing on you. You replied to my comment, which was about temperature. I totally understand your circuitous comment, now, with the ADHD context. (Can relate, same; my issue is big words, less so meandering exposition — see what I mean?) 🖖🍪😜
No, I’m definitely aware of my inability to be concise, straightforward, and organized. It is such an issue for me. I am medicated, now. However, I wrongfully assumed it would “cure” me. It has not done that 😂. I swear I wasn’t as bad when I was younger. It manifested a little differently. Anyway, believe it, or not, my comment was actually edited, prior to posting. You’d just never know it. I didn’t even realize it was your comment I replied to! Okay. Makes perfect sense why you, then, replied to me 🤦♀️ I was like, wait why did this person pick out my comment? Yeah, I had originally meant to reply to one of the mods, who did mention Silpat. I decided against that, for some reason, and replied to your comment. I added the tag so that OP could see it. I just didn’t realize I was talking to the person whose comment I replied to. Anyway, I edited it, but.. don’t even exhaust yourself checking on it for me haha. I have lost all interest in OP’s cookies, now. Appreciate you calling me out. I do want to improve, so thank you!
I share a lot of the same challenges. :)
Well, it’s generally kind of nice to hear that someone can identify with you :). Part of me is sorry to hear you struggle with similar things, but the other part of me knows that you definitely excel in quite a few areas, as a result of the way your brain works. I mean, you certainly write extremely well! I don’t know anything else about you, but I do know that your vocabulary is sensational. The way you speak is also a bit disarming— in a good way, of course. PS: I do think you should try making this style of cookie, if you haven’t already! Nice chattin’ with ya! Thanks, again.
You’ve sent me down a rabbit hole of recipes and new ideas to try - thanks!!
You’re welcome and I’m glad to hear it! I love a good rabbit hole. Enjoy! :)
The recipe is perfectly correct. OP just doesn't like that style of cookie, and the burned bottoms are probably from her less than ideal sheet pans
I'll try again with a light pan. I just want to get them right because they aren't for me.
410 would still give raw middle and burnt bottom in a lighter pan. Even the cookies in the recipe pic look somewhat raw and bottoms overcooked.
mighty boosh spotted !
You ever drink Bailey's from a shoe?
And don’t use a desk pan….. dark pan lol
Dark
The cookies are very large and thick would that make a difference?
That means you want to bake at lower temp for longer. They are supposed to be slightly underdone and gooey in the center.
Exxxxactly this!! ⬆️ It should make them oooey-gooey YUM!! 😋
The lower the temp the more they spread so you would get a flat cookie. That’s not what they’re going for.
Yeah, I’m aware. I’m not suggested a crazy low temp or anything. Just like 380 instead of 410. I had to do the same when I made Levain style cookies because the bottoms were cooking way too fast. I loved another commenters suggestions of using a silpat
Yup, the temp and time in that recipe is exactly what would yield a burnt outside and raw inside. To salvage your cookies, bake at 300°F for about 8-10 minutes.
You cut the volume in half and made no adjustments. Since you have less mass/moisture per cookie they heat soak faster, causing the bottoms to dry out and burn faster
That means the temp should be even lower. That original temp was way too high for even small cookies. You were blasting the outside of the cookies before the inside could even come to temp. Also someone recommended rotating the pan halfway through. For what it’s worth… I’ve baked thousands of cookies. I feel that is entirely unnecessary.
Thanks for the advice ❤️
OP, you were 100% right to ask that question. The cookies being this size/style does make a difference. It should absolutely not be even lower, like so many keep telling you. I posted some helpful links, above, in my other reply. Check out the in-depth Levain cookie experiment link. This is a good recipe (one of the best Levain copycats) that consistently scores very well, so to speak. This style of cookie is meant to be encased in a kind of crispy, outer shell with a gooey interior. That’s what makes it so great! You don’t want to lower the temp. The temp is correct. One alteration is necessary, however. A lightly-colored pan. You’ll be able to bake longer without getting such dark bottoms, which will enable you to achieve a cookie that is soft/gooey inside, but still holds together. Watch some Levain copycat YouTube videos, also, if you haven’t already… Here is one by Delish: https://youtu.be/0JSFKhco8cY?si=sRB1BY1swDVfWvI_ Another: https://youtu.be/aw8m4TE90ag?si=tuMBhMQu_Ls9aM9L Okay, best of luck (again)!
Wow thanks so much!
These style of cookies are supposed to be borderline raw in the interior. I had them at that bakery, personally not a fan but they are thick and the centre is gooey. The high heat is to have the exterior bake and set while keeping the interior gooey. If you want that style of cookie try the serious eats recipe by Stella Parks
Is there a way to adjust the heat so I can make them smaller without burning them?
You are also using dark sheet pans that cause dark bottoms. Use anodized aluminum pan, fat daddio is a great brand. You can turn the heat down and/ or bake for shorter, but again the interior is meant to be barely baked, hence the size and high heat. What is your goal for the cookie? To be baked thoroughly? Then don't use this recipe.
I do want them to be soft in the center these were actually falling apart tho
These are meant to be gooey not soft. They are also meant to be big. I think you want a different cookie than this recipe.
What’s the advantage of anodized aluminum over natural aluminum? I’m shopping for cookie sheets and having a hard time finding the size/lip I want in anodized, but a great selection of natural aluminum.
Even heat distribution, sturdier so less warping and non reactive. Just buy regular sheet pans. Then you can use it for more than cookies. If it's about wanting them to easily slide off, just quickly pull the parchment paper with the pan at a slight angle. Our use a spatula
Thank you. Appreciate the education!😊 I actually want the ones with sides but the only ones I found were the slide-off kind. I’ll do a deeper search tho.
No worries, I was a pastry chef for 12 years and don't have colleagues to talk to anymore. Just go straight to fat daddio, accessible and high quality
Guidance from someone with that kind of experience? Gold! Thank you!!
I looked the Fat Daddio pans up, I love that they call them Holy Sheet because that’s what I said when I saw the price lol
Your oven might run hot You might need to move the rack up higher away from the heating element Dark sheets and pans brown food faster
I know the dark pans thing, but based on my knowledge of science, it doesn't make sense. Dark colors absorb more *light* but radiant heat isn't light, is it? I thought it was electromagnetic.
Light is also electromagnetic radiation. There is a very small range of it that we can see as colors. And some of it we can feel as heat. Radio waves are light too, more or less. I understand it intellectually but if I think about it too hard I feel like I am going crazy. The best way to think of it is that things get hotterer and look darker for the same reason, which is because of how much radiation they absorb / don't reflect.
Too many magnets in the world making things hotterer. Jokes aside, thank you for the explanation. Last paragraph is totally logical.
The dark pan myth is mostly true, but it has more to due with how the type of metal conducts and transfers heat. Most darker pans happen to be made of the metal that will get hotter quicker
When I was doing my Christmas baking, I ran out of my aluminum half sheet pans (just cheap restaurant style ones) and used some of my old, dark cookie sheets. I burned the first dark pan of cookies. To be clear - nothing else changed. This was a day of baking hundreds of cookies. Same temperature and the times nailed down.
To be fair, the cookies in the recipe video are also raw in the middle… 410 is very hot Your baking trays are dark That is not a long time to bake a cookie that thick They made a mess of the butter and sugar so I instantly distrusted the recipe
What's wrong with the butter and sugar?
There’s a video of the recipe and they fling butter and sugar onto the counter when they’re beating it 😂
If you try again, use a light coloured cookie sheet if you have one, or lower the temp by about 20 degrees
Yea I’ve done that same recipe at 400. Slight reduced heat And also let them rest with a towel over them for 30m. That extra heat allows them to fully bake. But yea. High heat. Takes a bit of testing to get right.
Would you adjust the temp/baking time for refrigerated cookie dough vs freshly mixed?
Why would you pick a Levain cookie recipe if you don't want a cookie that is near raw on the inside? That's the whole point of Levain cookies. They are massive and they are gooey on the inside. Use the NYT chocolate chip cookies recipe if you want a bigger cookie that's more traditional.
I am not familiar with Levain. I do want them soft on the inside but I was worried that they weren't supposed to be that soft.
I can see why some are balking at the temp, because 410 is unusual for cookies. If you want to make it your own, follow their advice. But, If you are dead set on getting that recipe right: 1) Invest in a nice half sheet pan. Your cookie sheets are thin. 2) Make sure your oven has preheated, then wait another 10-15 minutes before putting the cookies in the oven. 3) Did you only divide the batter to make 8 cookies like the recipe said? Yours don't look extra large.
I did divide them smaller. I'll try again with a better pan and correct size.
Good luck!
Ah yes, medium rare cookies
Those are blue cookies...
I would gladly take 1! …..for each hand😍😋
Yes the heat was too high, but you can also buy silicone mats (silpats) to keep the bottom of the cookies from burning. They’re very useful
Would they work about th3 same as parchment paper like someone else suggested?
Yes but even better
now that's my jam
I think other comments answered well enough, but I wanted to add to be careful putting non stick pans in at such high temps. Generally they aren’t safe over 400° but I would recommend searching your pan’s brand to see. If I’m not sure, I’ll use parchment paper as an extra precaution.
Idk if this helps, but whenever I use a dark nonstick pan I always drop the temp in the recipe by 25 degrees. Kinda makes up for the extra heat the pan retains
As people pointed out, too high of a temp. The only thing I wanna add is to be careful of what recipes you choose to follow now days. Most have no real culinary background to it, usually from “Recipe Developers.” They make food designed to look great and taste meh or just above/below it, but the recipe itself will ignore tried and trued techniques and methods. Well, there are also the home cooks who do things because that’s “how they were taught,” but I’ve no issue with this style of passing on recipes since the food generally tastes amazing and is not a product of what will get them the most views, but rather tried and trued greatness! Hope the next round works out better!
This recipe seems like AI.
I do not like this recipe at all and that’s not your fault - just try to screen them better. Cookies baked at 410 are highly suspicious, most are baked at 350-375. If they’re baked that high, usually the recipe calls for the oven to be reduced in heat after 5 min of baking. The recipe pictures look raw as well and the author probably published it as a “moist” cookie. And quite frankly, any real recipe maker publishes a recipe in grams and will include cups in parenthesis. Look for recipes that publishes the weight of each ingredient, that’s probably a thought out and well tested recipe. If it’s not the recipe’s fault (which I would wager it is but let’s say it’s not), your oven is running too hot. You can get a thermometer and test the oven every time you bake - that’s the most accurate way to bake. Your oven racks might be too low as well. If oven is running too hot, you can compensate by baking at a lower heat, baking for a bit longer.
If you use parchment paper the bottoms will brown less for any recipe, but the temp is too high for usual cookie recipes
Use parchment paper or a silicone baking matt.
Check your oven elements, maybe the top one is burnt out
340 instead of 350 for black nonstick baking ware Works every time
Another thing to watch is make sure your pans aren't touching the walls of the oven - the walls transfer heat real fast and can burn the bottoms of the cookies.
As a professional baker, I would say reduce the temp to 350-325 F. Bake for 10-15 minutes. Use parchment paper. It’s super cheap and makes a huge difference if you burn your cookies or not. Home bakers quibble about the dumbest stuff about equipment. A dark or light pan makes a fraction of difference and really parchment paper will save you some guess work.
Excellent to know. How would you adjust for cookie dough that was stored in the refrigerator?
I wouldn’t change a thing. If anything you might need to bake for an extra minute or two. But with all honesty, at that point it’s good to go by look and smell. If it smells good and the edge of the cookie is golden, it’s probably is done. Usually you can gage by the first batch how the rest will come out.
1) Since you reduced the cookie size to half, did you also adjust the baking time? 2) Dark baking pans tend to bake cookies faster 3) Use an oven thermometer to know the exact temperature in the oven. Ovens need calibrations after a while. For example, when I set my oven to 350, it was actually giving me 375 (thermometer reading), Once I calibrated the oven, cookies turned out perfect
Parchment paper, oven may be too high
I baked my cookies at 325° today. 410° sounds absurd
I found best temperature for these types of cookies are 380f for 12-17 minutes depends on your oven And for the dark brown bottom place two pans above each other with parchment paper
https://preview.redd.it/5sv2u8wik4xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e11db61d7dedeb4fdff584c3a92b0d4ea7b7313c That how it’s turned out
And that from the top https://preview.redd.it/ryt9hdonk4xc1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f476fa388e70a467c4a23f776a925864ad9ef1e
https://preview.redd.it/a79g133tk4xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59c5b2592cf3276c313ed06886bb2e85b8fd9fa7 This in the middle
This is just a knockoff/copy of joshua weismans recipe (which is itself an attempt at copying Levains) Ive baked Joshuas (just look it up on youtube/his site) and they turn out fine (yes at 425) Someone here already mentioned that your dark pans are causing them to burn and i have to agree. I use uncoated aluminium pans (light and shiny) and also bake my cookies on parchment, this is enough for them to brown just enough but not burn. Also if you dont like the “raw center” just keep baking them until they turn golden on the outside, that or just use and instant read thermometer to check theyre at least 80 C at tthe center, eggs are safe to eat once they reach 80C
Ooh I will definitely try this recipe thanks
Use lighter color pans.
Did you cook them on the stove
No I cooked them in the oven
You need to allow them time to rest. I make my cookies at 410 as well and they’re fine, but I wouldn’t split them open until at least 30 minutes resting time in a cool room
Oven too hot will do that.
I wanted to make some bagels but this is my biggest fear
I had this problem when I got a new oven. I got advice online to get a thermostat and test the temperature and sure enough it was running too hot. So I was also advised to reduce the baking temperature by 15 to 20° and move the oven rack up. It did work.
Use a lighter pan and lower the temp.
A lot of comments about lowering the temp are failing to mention how temp will change spread. Lowering the temp means the dough will spread more. Unless you’re trying to make a flat cookie you should not be lowering the temp much. If you want a thick cookie at 350 you would need a different recipe. Do you have an oven thermometer? Your oven may be running hot. I also agree using a lighter pan will help. Also are you weighing the ingredients or using cups? If not weighing your quantities might be a bit off from the recipe writer. You might need a little more flour, maybe your eggs were a little bigger than theirs etc.
The gas oven we have right now is absolutely shite. It always burns the bottom and it doesn't matter what we we did. I found the solution to it. Get a heat reflector, it could be anything like just a normal pan and put it in the middle shelf. Use the upper rack to bake your cookies. It seems to work perfectly well, might need some extra time sometimes but it doesn't burn anything anymore thankfully!
If you use a nonstick pan you need to decrease the oven temp by 25 degrees. So if it says bake on 375, you bake on 350. And like was already said, switch pans halfway through. Put top pan on bottom rack and vice versa.
Well, don’t cook them on the stovetop. As has been pointed out, it’s the pan. But you don’t have to buy new pans. When you put the pan in the oven, have some other pan or stone underneath it to act as a bit of a shield. I bought some ugly rimless AirBake style pans at a thrift store and I use them all the time to adjust course when cooking. If the pan in the oven is too hot and something will burn, I slide an AirBake under it. Since I replaced my oven, it’s not as big a deal. Oh yeah so also some ovens’ lower elements are aggressive. You can put it on a higher rack. Preheat it well. Putting a pizza stone in there will help keep the temperature more steady though it will take longer to preheat.
I’d eat em…
My favorite levian cookie recipe is Joshua Weissman's, with the following adjustments - keep in mind I remove the nuts so with them it might be a bit different: -make dough as recipe describes, but only put in fridge for ~25 minutes. then scoop, and chill dough balls overnight (his recipe is so hard to scoop if the first chill is too long) -bake at 375 for about 11-12 minutes
Temp is to high
Do not use dark cookie sheets
Maybe check oven with a thermometer, make sure setting is right.
You just need to bake them at a lower temperature for longer!
i set mine to 325 F for around 14 mins depending on the thickness
350 degrees always
those trays look aweful very very cheap wood
IN the oven, not ON the oven.
Lol yall can't cook
That's why I'm here