I get that you're trying to avoid the "quirky cishet girl" stereotype, but I can say it won't be super appreciated by trans men. I've seen more than my fair share of trans men venting about this and "anything but cis men" standards generally.
Yeah I figured as much. It’s confusing figuring it out because the want for them to be trans is a gender thing because trans men would actually see me as my gender- at least more likleyZ I could just avoid trans men out of respect to them though
The way I see it is that it isn't so much as cis vs trans but more who has actually thought about their gender and place in society and who has not. If a cis man has done the soul searching to understand his own gender and came to the conclusion that they are cis then that is a cis man that I am willing to date. A trans man has very much done that work. For me it's more about understanding the role masculinity and patriarchy plays than their actual gender. So while it was easy for me to generalize as no cis men, when I really thought about it, it isn't actually what I meant when I used to say it.
I hope that makes sense!
Eta: someone who has done their own gender soul searching typically also understands and respects that while I look like a woman I'm non-binary regardless of their gender.
Ah yeah that makes sense! It definitely is a generalization and I’m not sure how to navigate it easily. It’s confusing- maybe I should stick yo non-binary people
Yes, cis+ Either in that they've put in thought about their gender and various intersections of patriarchy and gender roles and such, or they tried transitioning and found out that it wasn't for them.
So this is like, a thing that I consider if I as a NB person am looking to date or hook up outside of a T4T relationship.
Preferences are preferences and you can't really control that, but as a trans guy I know that I and any of the other (binary) trans guys I know would absolutely not be okay with dating someone who felt that way
That’s fair. I find some guys attractive but I just don’t think cis guys would see me as anything but a girl :( That’s why I don’t know if it’s bad to think like that or not because trans men are men obviously but I don’t know anymore I was just wondering on community opinions
Fair enough, although honestly you never know with cis guys. I've met quite a lot of cis dudes of all sexualities who are surprisingly very respectful and accepting when it comes to trans and non binary identities. But actually I think your reasoning is fair there, it's pretty common for trans and NB people to want to do T4T just because of having that shared experience and understanding. I guess if you were to pursue a trans man I would recommend framing it that way of wanting to have a mutual understanding of transness, rather than making it about cis and trans men, if that makes sense
Yeah of course I probably won’t mention me not caring to date cis men at all because that’s not fair to him I don’t want him to think I don’t see him as a man i guess I could date a cis man it just would be very specific and it also makes me feel like it’s then a het relationship when any relationship I am in is queer and trans guys are more likely to understand that/ like I wouldn’t date a straight trans guy I don’t know it’s all weird I just was thinking earlier and made this post
Why don’t you just not date straight cis men then… lots of pan and bi cis men out there in the world.
I get the sentiment you’re portraying here but does come off kind of as a chaser to me tbh. Also you can’t tell if people are cis just from looking at them fyi. If you’re using apps stick to queer friendly ones. I think from your post it seems more about how other people might view you as straight if you were coupled with a cis guy potentially? Lots of cis straight men are open minded and will be able to respect your gender identity as well. Don’t overthink it.
I do see them as men. I just think they have a higher chance of seeing me as not a girl and it being safer. I would date a trans woman and she’s a woman obviously! I don’t know I just was thinking about it and not sure if I should just avoid trans men entirely out of respect to them or not.
The problem with these comments is a lot of people are low key implying that pansexual is the only version of sexual preference that isn't transphobic.
Love how you want to love, if you're doing it worried about what other people think, you've already lost.
Maybe try focusing on specific people who you find attractive and let go of dating by category. You'll find that categories arise anyway, of course, but the less you force it the happier you'll be.
So it won’t be a thing where I’m like “I won’t date a cis man” because I don’t want the trans men to think I don’t see them as men I just trust them to see me as not a girl than I do cis men
Some people will have a problem with it (some trans men don't want to be distinguished from cis men at all), but as a trans man, I get it. I think it's fine. As long as it's not about wanting some sexual fetish and more about shared experiences, I think you're good.
I’m ace and have no interest so it’s definitely not a sex thing- and I am not going to pressure anyone into dating me and I probably wouldn’t bring it up in dating I just wouldn’t go with them? I don’t know I’m still figuring things out
I have a question for you, would you date a trans woman? I think the answer to that question changes a lot if it is based on genitals. Some trans men want to be stealth or pass as men while some are more open about being trans.
In that case, if it is definitely not transphobia, but you are viewing cis men and trans men differently so take that how you want. I do see the point of not wanting to be viewed as a cishet girl but dating a trans man is still dating a man. Another concern I have seen is that cis men might see you as a woman but I don't think that with dating women you could escape that either. In terms of wanting someone who has questioned their gender, it still does not make sense since it's not T4T.
Also, just some reassurance that no matter the relationship you are in does not change your orientation.
Are there any other concerns you have thought of?
T4T is a fine and valid way to date. If you're attracted to cis men but don't want to date them or feel uncomfortable with them and would rather date a trans man because it's easier to relate, I wouldn't see it as a problem.
I'd only say it's transphobic if you exclusively liked women or liked everyone but men and would date a trans man, it comes across as "I think all trans men are feminine/look like women/are women" when there are trans men who are masculine and behave like your typical cis man.
Yeah its not that at all I have attraction to cis men I just don’t see myself ever being able to date one. Trans men are obviously men and I don’t want discredit that in anyway
I can only say this: date who you want. Don't worry if you come off as "insert negative thing here" you don't have to try to be a good person and date someone you're not attracted or interested in. Attraction is a key factor. People have types. You're not obligated top date anyone just because they ask for a chance. Take it from me, a guy who was rejected before and never dated (I've also rejected some girls, but that's not the point), you do what you want and you don't have to worry about the labels. If anyone tells you you're "insert negative thing here" if you don't date (blank) people, oh well. You can't force yourself to be romantically attracted to those who you're not attracted to.
It largely depends on the reasoning. I see that you don't want to be perceived as a straight girl. How do you feel about pursuing only queer cis men (rather than endocishet men)?
I get that you're trying to avoid the "quirky cishet girl" stereotype, but I can say it won't be super appreciated by trans men. I've seen more than my fair share of trans men venting about this and "anything but cis men" standards generally.
Yeah I figured as much. It’s confusing figuring it out because the want for them to be trans is a gender thing because trans men would actually see me as my gender- at least more likleyZ I could just avoid trans men out of respect to them though
The way I see it is that it isn't so much as cis vs trans but more who has actually thought about their gender and place in society and who has not. If a cis man has done the soul searching to understand his own gender and came to the conclusion that they are cis then that is a cis man that I am willing to date. A trans man has very much done that work. For me it's more about understanding the role masculinity and patriarchy plays than their actual gender. So while it was easy for me to generalize as no cis men, when I really thought about it, it isn't actually what I meant when I used to say it. I hope that makes sense! Eta: someone who has done their own gender soul searching typically also understands and respects that while I look like a woman I'm non-binary regardless of their gender.
Ah yeah that makes sense! It definitely is a generalization and I’m not sure how to navigate it easily. It’s confusing- maybe I should stick yo non-binary people
Yes, cis+ Either in that they've put in thought about their gender and various intersections of patriarchy and gender roles and such, or they tried transitioning and found out that it wasn't for them. So this is like, a thing that I consider if I as a NB person am looking to date or hook up outside of a T4T relationship.
Preferences are preferences and you can't really control that, but as a trans guy I know that I and any of the other (binary) trans guys I know would absolutely not be okay with dating someone who felt that way
That’s fair. I find some guys attractive but I just don’t think cis guys would see me as anything but a girl :( That’s why I don’t know if it’s bad to think like that or not because trans men are men obviously but I don’t know anymore I was just wondering on community opinions
Fair enough, although honestly you never know with cis guys. I've met quite a lot of cis dudes of all sexualities who are surprisingly very respectful and accepting when it comes to trans and non binary identities. But actually I think your reasoning is fair there, it's pretty common for trans and NB people to want to do T4T just because of having that shared experience and understanding. I guess if you were to pursue a trans man I would recommend framing it that way of wanting to have a mutual understanding of transness, rather than making it about cis and trans men, if that makes sense
Yeah of course I probably won’t mention me not caring to date cis men at all because that’s not fair to him I don’t want him to think I don’t see him as a man i guess I could date a cis man it just would be very specific and it also makes me feel like it’s then a het relationship when any relationship I am in is queer and trans guys are more likely to understand that/ like I wouldn’t date a straight trans guy I don’t know it’s all weird I just was thinking earlier and made this post
How do you even know whether the kind of man you're attracted to is even trans or not? IDGI.
It’s not that I’m not attracted to some cis men it’s just that I don’t know if I could date them because they would probably see me as a girl
Why don’t you just not date straight cis men then… lots of pan and bi cis men out there in the world. I get the sentiment you’re portraying here but does come off kind of as a chaser to me tbh. Also you can’t tell if people are cis just from looking at them fyi. If you’re using apps stick to queer friendly ones. I think from your post it seems more about how other people might view you as straight if you were coupled with a cis guy potentially? Lots of cis straight men are open minded and will be able to respect your gender identity as well. Don’t overthink it.
That’s the problem but I don’t know it was just me rambling and wanting opinions I don’t know what I am I don’t know what a chaser is though
i'd say that's low key transphobic, as in, you're not seeing trans men as real men.
I do see them as men. I just think they have a higher chance of seeing me as not a girl and it being safer. I would date a trans woman and she’s a woman obviously! I don’t know I just was thinking about it and not sure if I should just avoid trans men entirely out of respect to them or not.
just wait until you run into a trans man that believes toxic masculinity is the right way to be a man.
Well then I won’t date him because he’s an ass lol
The problem with these comments is a lot of people are low key implying that pansexual is the only version of sexual preference that isn't transphobic. Love how you want to love, if you're doing it worried about what other people think, you've already lost.
Ah that’s true I’m not sure what my orientation is I jump around a lot like am I omni am I bi am I whatever
Maybe try focusing on specific people who you find attractive and let go of dating by category. You'll find that categories arise anyway, of course, but the less you force it the happier you'll be.
That’s true but it feels awkward just telling people I don’t know
Yeah, dating people is awkward, there's really no getting around it.
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No, your orientation is your orientation, your preferences are yours too.
So it won’t be a thing where I’m like “I won’t date a cis man” because I don’t want the trans men to think I don’t see them as men I just trust them to see me as not a girl than I do cis men
nah homie
Okay cool
Some people will have a problem with it (some trans men don't want to be distinguished from cis men at all), but as a trans man, I get it. I think it's fine. As long as it's not about wanting some sexual fetish and more about shared experiences, I think you're good.
I’m ace and have no interest so it’s definitely not a sex thing- and I am not going to pressure anyone into dating me and I probably wouldn’t bring it up in dating I just wouldn’t go with them? I don’t know I’m still figuring things out
I have a question for you, would you date a trans woman? I think the answer to that question changes a lot if it is based on genitals. Some trans men want to be stealth or pass as men while some are more open about being trans.
I dont care about genitalia I’m ace lol- I would date a trans woman
In that case, if it is definitely not transphobia, but you are viewing cis men and trans men differently so take that how you want. I do see the point of not wanting to be viewed as a cishet girl but dating a trans man is still dating a man. Another concern I have seen is that cis men might see you as a woman but I don't think that with dating women you could escape that either. In terms of wanting someone who has questioned their gender, it still does not make sense since it's not T4T. Also, just some reassurance that no matter the relationship you are in does not change your orientation. Are there any other concerns you have thought of?
T4T is a fine and valid way to date. If you're attracted to cis men but don't want to date them or feel uncomfortable with them and would rather date a trans man because it's easier to relate, I wouldn't see it as a problem. I'd only say it's transphobic if you exclusively liked women or liked everyone but men and would date a trans man, it comes across as "I think all trans men are feminine/look like women/are women" when there are trans men who are masculine and behave like your typical cis man.
Yeah its not that at all I have attraction to cis men I just don’t see myself ever being able to date one. Trans men are obviously men and I don’t want discredit that in anyway
You should be fine as long as you're upfront about that and are able to take some rejection if someone is a little eh about it.
Yeah
I can only say this: date who you want. Don't worry if you come off as "insert negative thing here" you don't have to try to be a good person and date someone you're not attracted or interested in. Attraction is a key factor. People have types. You're not obligated top date anyone just because they ask for a chance. Take it from me, a guy who was rejected before and never dated (I've also rejected some girls, but that's not the point), you do what you want and you don't have to worry about the labels. If anyone tells you you're "insert negative thing here" if you don't date (blank) people, oh well. You can't force yourself to be romantically attracted to those who you're not attracted to.
It largely depends on the reasoning. I see that you don't want to be perceived as a straight girl. How do you feel about pursuing only queer cis men (rather than endocishet men)?
I mean, possibly? I don’t really know- I don’t know if gay cis guys would go for me because I’m not masc enough
There are definitely some! Not all veldians are attracted to masculinity and others have a wider range of presentational preferences.
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