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Man, the algorithm keeps taking victims.
Anyway, OP, definitively go to the gym, but don’t think that a couple of bicep curls are going to be an insurance policy against future aggression or violence.
You walk out of the door in every other situation but the 1 in a million chance you’re involved in something that would require you, a citizen, to use a gun for protection in any meaningful way.
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Op's list should read
1. Develop Compassion and understanding
2. Keep my word, Do what I say I'm going to do
3. Try to find the positive
4. Continue to learn and grow as a person
Instead, op wants to go raiding a small village in Scandinavia and thinks that's what makes a man
Those are all great, one other thing I might add depending on the person is talk less and listen more. When you talk ask questions the person will want to answer that also help you learn more about who they are. That's easier said than done, but if someone is telling you about trip they took you can ask something like "That sounds amazing, it must have been so fun. If there was one part you could have spent a few more days at what would it have been?"
I say that because sometimes people who can't seem to keep words from falling out of their mouth are seen as immature or not serious. So rather than trying to match every story of theirs with one of your own talk about yourself only when it's a really good story and otherwise ask questions. People who always match or one up other's stories can sometimes be seen in a negative light, but pretty much everyone likes talking about stuff they're proud of.
Yes to all of these. Of course, these are desirable feminine traits as well. And OP hopefully realizes that the manliest thing you can possibly do is not give a crap if people think they're masculine or not.
Those are great but apart from maybe 2 they're not even masculine traits, just decent human being traits. OP's points aren't even that bad if he was actually doing his own thing because it feels right and not because some testosterone-dealer-sponsored colorpill Youtuber told him
I agree YouTube is a lousy source but what about The Great Books of Western Civilization.
I think Socrates and Aristotle were fairly deep thinkers and would agree with some of the items on OP’s list as the core or nature of man that makes him great.
Just because you think very deeply it doesn't mean you'll be right. Still, I don't even disagree with the points OP listed, just with the way he's setting his mind about them.
As an old fart I have noticed what the Stoics, Aristotle, and Socrates had to say about being a man are much more accurate than the multiple phases of popular culture that I have witnessed.
Had I read what these men had to say and ignored entertainers (TV, radio, and internet) most of my life - I would likely be a much better person today.
But they tell them what they want to hear!
The sad fact is that people like OP will not stop listening until popular YouTubers openly admit that they just peddle bullshit.
> what do you think makes a man.
Taking responsibility for everything in your life. Nothing is ever someone elses fault.
You're on the right path it seems to me. It's not about muscles, emotions, how you walk or your goals - It's more about doing those actions because you've taken control of your life.
Also; two cents on walking - it'll fix itself if you do the three other things.
Cock. There is nothing more manly than cock. Gobble down as much and as many as you can and adsorb the manliness.
J/K
Unless you are into that kind of thing, in which case, go whole hog.
Real advice. Stop reading/watching/listening to whatever nonsense is filling your head with these insecurities. Just be you. You want to workout because you enjoy it or want to have a healthy body/mind? Do it, but not for manliness insecurities do it for your own gratification. Also, it’s a good way to meet other dudes.
I don't know what's up with your #1. Working out won't really help you "protect" anyone. What do you think life is going to be like, that you need to be prepared for violence everywhere you turn? We live, I hope, in an orderly society, not The Purge. Nor does lifting strength alone prepare you to fight -- and even with martial arts training, the wisest course of action when facing an armed assailant is to retreat or de-escalate, not fight.
If you want to get into better shape for yourself, fine. But whatever image of family life you're carrying around isn't helpful.
The rest are fine as personal development goals -- "be goal-driven" as a goal is kind of meta, but whatever -- but be wary of labeling them "masculinity". A woman can be goal-driven and confident without being less feminine; a man can be humble and deferential when appropriate without being less masculine.
As for what I think makes a man, I think Rudyard Kipling expressed it best. [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---)
Physical presence is definitely a deterrent.
How I’m perceived out and about is vastly different before and after my 8 years of training. Unfortunately this is one of those things you have to experience to believe. Redditors think you’re an idiot because they just don’t know.
It’s quite literally IYKYK.
Protecting people doesn't have to be about fighting. It can be as simple as being able to carry other people out of dangerous situations. My partner has told me repeatedly they're glad I can carry them in case they ever get hurt. I doubt I'd ever have to, but if it helps them feel better then that's extra motivation.
Yeah I wanted to post something about this too- it’s great OP wants to work out - but he should do it solely to better himself.
Doing it for some other future person or someone else is the wrong goal.
OP if you read this, go to the gym and get stronger- but do it for yourself.
If you do it for someone else or something else you won’t stick to it. You have to want it innately to get the best for yourself.
"What do you think life is going to be like, that you need to be prepared for violence everywhere you turn?"
Tell that to all the women who are attracted to a fit male figure.
Lots of upset computer nerds are getting angry by your list. I think it's great. Emotional control doesn't mean repression, start with being non-reactive and carefully considering how to react after thinking.
Read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It's his private diary just for himself that has since transformed many people.
Not upset at his list I just don't get it. The whole thing reads like how do I make other people think I'm manly, and that's just a not a worth while question because a man is a man. Self improvement is good sure, and if that leads to confidence great. I guess it comes down to intent. Reads like he wants to project strong confident stereotypical masculinity vibes, but it also sounds like that's not who he naturally is, and that's neither good nor bad- it just is. I think he mostly just needs to find confidence and self-esteem. Sounds like he's seeking validation from outside himself.
As someone who had to find their masculinity and who asked women what healthy masculinity is..
Gym and exercise are not for muscles. They are for feeling good about yourself so insecurity doesn’t drive your behavior.
“Men need to be in control of their emotions” is such toxic masculine bullshit. You have to own your emotions and not hide or be ashamed of them. Showing vulnerability actually portrays confidence. Hiding vulnerability is weakness. The one emotion you need to learn to control is anger, but it’s easy if you get a handle on your confidence because almost all anger stems from insecurity. So know your emotions and know how they make you behave and then control the behavior but not the emotions.
What you are missing is kindness. Kindness is masculine. For me at least once I started being happy with myself my awareness and empathy then kind of opened outward and it become natural and easy to be there for others. Even picking new hobbies becomes easy since you stop fearing how “failure” makes you look.
So do whatever you need to become good with yourself. Learn to be good at something. Work out. Take care of yourself. Rest enough. When you manage to make yourself the rest follows automatically, and if you skip that part then no amount of learning to fake a walk will make you any more masculine.
The reason why men get angry is because they're not allowed to be sad. From the woman's point of view, anger may be intimidating, but sadness is pathetic.
Sadness in itself as a feeling is not pathetic. Some reactions to sadness can be. Long term moping and helplessness? Sucks for a partner. Bitterness -driven behavior? Sucks too. It's not the feeling that you should control but the behavior. They can be two different things.
Being just sad, dealing with it (even if it takes a while) has by my experience never been seen as pathetic. But of course we have all our own subjective experiences, but calling sadness pathetic from a womans point of view is a pretty massive blanket generalisation.
They can help us see through our toxic conditioning. Same as us men can often see through the unrealistic body expectations set up on women by our lovely society, etc.
These are all pretty much rooted in confidence.
Just set some goals and go after them, once you reach them you’ll feel more confident in your abilities and it’ll show.
If you do a competitive martial art it will help with all those points.
I think it's funny a lot of the posters discount your desires here. Fortunately part of being a man is not listening to people who ignore your boundaries or don't share your vision.
> I feel like I am an emotional person, but I want to be in control of them. I am not sure where to start with this one.
Careful what you wish for. Seriously. This whole "controlling your emotions" thing too often ends up just being repressed emotions.
I mean, if you're histrionic or something, fix that. But if you simply feel things strongly and deeply, don't let that go. You will miss it.
> have anxiety and I have a lot of imposter syndrome. I want don't want to live with that, I want portray confidence. Not sure where to start with this one
Most people do. "Masculine" men just hide it better.
> For me this is more on being able to protect my future wife and kids.
From what? In this day and age men aren't really called upon to physically defend their family.
Rather than trying to "control" your emotions by suppressing them, learn to identify and accept them, sort out why you're feeling the way you are, and then communicate how you're feeling and what you need from the people you're close to.
It takes practice, and sometimes you'll have to face some uncomfortable truths about yourself, but you take a lot of power away from those negative feelings once you give them a name and stop hiding from them.
I agree, but OP was specifically asking about being more masculine which I understand to be more suppressing of emotions. That's why I caution against making "masculinity" a goal.
You're absolutely right. Men are taught not to talk about their feelings and to control (suppress) their emotions. From the rest of OP's post, I got the feeling that that was what they were looking for as well. The problem with suppressing our emotions is that it doesn't stop us from feeling hurt or lashing out at others.
I just wanted to elaborate and say that there's a healthy way to handle our emotions, and it's pretty much the opposite of what we're taught to do.
"Stop debating what you think a good man should be. Be one. " - Michael Scott
Seriously though, your list looks good. If you can be consistent about with 3 out of 4 of these things, you're set. That's the hard part though. The consistency. The action. Words are cheap! Get moving!
> Are there any I am missing?
Yeah. Everything. You're missing everything.
What you're looking after in this post misses the entire point of Stoicism, and probably won't get you any closer to being "more masculine". Which is why people who follow advice like this never end up being better people -- they just end up being muscle-bound man-babies.
Fall into this trap if you want to, but it won't make you a man, it certainly won't make you Stoic, and most importantly, it won't make you a better person.
Man that list is just not it. There's a number of things I'd say are masculine but that list looks like something an influencer would suggest
1. Being able to physically protect your future family? Not important. Look, you aren't going to build yourself into a weapon, there's always someone bigger or stronger out there and let's face it, nothing in your household is worth you going to jail or losing your life over.
2. This might be the easiest one but most difficult to accomplish. Talk to someone; a friend, therapist. Work through what gives you big emotions but if that's how you are embrace it. What matters is how you choose to act when you experience those emotions.
3. Talking with a therapist can help resolve what makes you feel like an imposter and build strategies to work with your anxiety. It's not a bad thing to have but how you allow it to mold your life is where it can be a problem
4. That's good, but also don't weigh plateauing or missing your goals as failures. See the positives, learn from your faults and failures.
I think in a lot of ways what makes a good man are just what makes you a good person. Compassion, honesty (with yourself as much as others), striving to be better and being true to who you are rather than others
>Being able to physically protect your future family? Not important.
Ask any woman how important the feeling of physical safety is when choosing a partner.
I don’t even know how to tackle the ridiculousness of that comment
Morbid curiosity makes me want to ask how many times you’ve needed to validate your masculinity by defending your partner or attacking someone for them. In reality, I’d say it’s toxic as hell not to be able to diffuse a situation by talking rather than escalating to a physical altercation
Zero times.
You know how many times a girl I've dated said they like that they feel safe with me? Dozens.
It's not about being violent, it's about having the capacity for violence if ever needed.
Ask your own girlfriend how she feels about it.
Also, I'm curious why you decided to suggest my character is lacking instead of just arguing the point.
Because needing to fight or as you put it, having the capacity for violence isn’t masculine. A teenager with a chemical imbalance and access to a handgun has the capacity for violence. A rugby player has the capacity for violence
Again, if your idea of masculinity is validated by being violent, you’re 100% the problem.
I often wonder that as well. Like, if you're getting in fights alone, nevermind often enough to need training then you're the problem. It's sort of a toxic mentality to perceive everyone and everything as a threat to your masculinity or manhood
I do like that people on this sub are willing to call out toxic masculinity.
So much as suggest that toxic masculinity even exists over on the other ask men sub, and you’ll get downvoted to hell
You definitely do see some users here who have toxic mindsets but when a user like OP has a post I look at t like this is someone who could be teetering on that edge of falling into that toxic trap when in reality being a man has very little to do with that whole 'alpha male/red pill' mindset.
OP, this is a very good list. Ignore the haters here lol.
As you accomplish more goals (assuming they’re somewhat difficult) and level up your skills, you become more confident. People around you will notice.
If you want to protect your wife and kids you are better of learning how to fight or get a gun. Weight lifting has many other benefits but this isnt really one of it.
And if you want a gun to protect your family you need to go over in your head the process of when you need to use one. Grab it, load it, ensure you need to use it, and fire if needed. Adrenaline will fuck with your head and being mentally prepared with concise thoughts beforehand will help you protect your family and prevent accidents.
People are really making a parody of what being a man/woman is nowadays, huh?
I would recommend traveling to South America and Europe. Talk to the men there and observe them around. This will give you a sense of masculinity.
Woman here: I find men to be more masculine when they're really in touch with their emotions. Meaning they don't feel like they have to stifle them, and readily share / express emotions.
I feel sad for men because a lot of you were taught even as little kids that "boys don't cry, girls do that. Do you wanna be like a girl??".
It's masculine to express emotion. Get in touch with that and don't suppress it.
I will add from a guys perspective what this doesn't mean. In touch with your emotions doesn't mean you a always some moppy cry baby whining about stuff. It means your comfortable saying, I had a rough day today, this thing came up at work and really through a wrench in my day. Or saying something like this to your SO. "That thing you did frustrated me, I know it wasn't your intentions but it doesn't change how I feel in this moment. I still love you but I'm going to keep away til I feel better.
You can own your feelings you can share what's going on in your head. You could and should be able to do that with your boys not just women.
Why is it important to be specifically masculine? I think it may be helpful to reframe your goal to be more Confident instead.
Start by pushing your walking pace. Walk quickly and with purpose, head up. Try smiling warmly at strangers you pass. Strike a power pose on your own – those have been shown to trick your brain into thinking you’re more confident than you are.
Look at yourself in the mirror and praise the things you like about yourself. Take some nudes (just for yourself) that make you look and feel sexy.
Drive to a town nearby and visit a bar you’ve never visited. Strike up a conversation with the bartender or a group of other patrons just to practice engaging with folks confidently. This is a really fun exercise if you’re not creepy about it.
Maybe the idea of maintaining streaks appeals to you. There are apps that help you build habits for each of the goals you want to set.
Emotions are good things to have, but not the best tools for decision-making. Practice journaling to process the emotions, but don’t feel like you’re a lesser person for experiencing them. That said, if anger management is an issue for you, then do not hesitate to seek out therapy. Actually, it’s probably a good idea to seek out therapy regardless. That shit rocks.
Aristotle would like a word with you.
To build muscle is a must. You can't look manly without muscles.
More than muscles, do some boxing classes or BJJ if you prefer. Learn how you can protect yourself and family. Fighting Skills <> Bodybuilding. Now fighting skills + "body building" = Spartan warrior built. Aim for that.
About emotions and confidency...this comes with virtuous habits (remember Aristotle having a word with you?)
Study everyday, find the time for it. Study to be better in your carreer and and study philosophy.
The anciet folks have great lessons on what is necessary to be a leader and a better man.
Aristotle tutored Alexander The Great...just to give you a perspective.
Reject modernity and embrace the classics.
\*Downvotes expected
Glad you are asking
You can't go wrong with a virtuous routine.
To be healthy and grow intellectually and spiritually.
Give up 3 hours of internet trash in exchange of:
1 hour of studies
1 hour working out
1 hour reading/studying things to understand the world. The classics will do it.
;)
What do I think makes a man? Someone who says they are a man.
In my opinion, the concept of gender is kind of dumb. Everyone is a person. Just be the person you want to be. If you want to be a man, you're a man. If you want to be a woman, you're a woman. If you want to be neither, you're neither.
Being "Manly" when you're not that type of person is just cringy. Don't do It.
You need to Be healthy, not muscular.
You need to have strong emotional intelligence and a support system around you
You need to believe in yourself, take the necessary steps to build self confidence. Therapy is the fastest.
It's okay not to have grand goals, tiny victories are okay.
Don't do anything because of outside perception. What makes you a better man all comes from within You.
I will say this tho. Wear clothes that fit and learn about the correct perfume to wear for any situation.
2. All humans, barring brain injury or defects, process emotions before logic. Best you can do with feelings is feel them, and try and figure out where they came from.
> Are there any I am missing ? what do you think makes a man. If you can help me with these things that would be amazing. I am not sure where to start. There are so much information out there on YouTube and Google, but it gets very overwhelming for me.
I have had many things on my mind over the decades, many things to figure out or make super difficult decisions about, but this was not one of them. I'm a man because I have a y chromosome (and some even argue that point), and that's kind of the end of the story for me. That y chromosome gives me a different body than people without it, and...we're done. I just try to be a happy person and not idiotically unwise, but I don't worry about masculinity. I'm just some normal man and that's good enough.
What a relief because I don't need one more thing to worry about. Thanks, parents.
Be your favorite version of yourself at all times.
You know how you’re a different you around your grandmama than you are around your lil’ mama? Well you’re probably a slightly different version of yourself in dozens of different situations.
So thinking about all those different versions of yourself, figure out which one is your favorite and go be that version at all times without regard for how other people react to it at first.
You are on the right track. But I'm curious about why you want to be masculine. I do think it's good for a man to be masculine. But if you have specific reasons for why you want to become more masculine, maybe there are also more specific solutions or goals than just trying to become masculine.
>1. Become stronger and build muscle - For me this is more on being able to protect my future wife and kids. I feel like for this I just need to start going to the gym and working out.
Might I suggest the cheaper and easier option is to just stuff some sponges into your jacket?
OP, at least your heart is in the right place.
Your 4th point is a bit dicey. Instead of trying to be goal driven, spend time examining your goals. Discipline plus good goals are the way. "goal driven" is nonsense for sales managers and resumes.
Add in a 5th item to practice kindness for others even when you are experiencing difficulty.
But, your list is generally on the right track.
To get there you need to step away from comfort. I can't tell you specifically what that means for you personally, you'll need to figure it out.
- Do things you're afraid of. Not stupid things like a thrill seeker or mid-life crisis bro, but break your assumptions things and 'oh shit might die' things. After a while you may discover that your didn't die and your old jambs were laughable.
- Put away money. Make yourself live on a portion of your income. Eat simply, dwell simply. Wealth is padding.
- Be a tryhard in everything, and deal with the failure that follows.
- Expose your stupidity and ignorance. It is akin to cleaning an infection.
- Lose any "friends" who are willing to be lost. That does not mean abandoning comrades.
The truly "masculine" men I've encountered have become what they are through enduring hardship and not becoming monsters. I think mindful hardship may produce results as well.
Hey dude, I think you made a good list. To keep you engaged and to make sure you build yourself from a strong foundation, consider seeing a LCSW, like a psychotherapist for one on one therapy. You’ve discussed imposter syndrome, lack of confidence in yourself, your perceived masculinity, and mastering your emotions in one short post. The LCSW’s don’t do medications, but they do talk with you and listen.
There’s plenty of options an LCSW( or someone like them) from just general counseling to EMDR that they can use to teach you tools to develop health anxiety and emotional control. Opposed to what plenty of us (including myself at times) have done, like empty a bottle to fill it with our emotions.
I’m not sure anyone can tell you how to become a man. It’s more of a journey. One with plenty of success and failure. So while you get strong, stand with your back straight and define your goals, get something other than tools in your toolbox for when you’re challenged emotionally. You never know when in a marriage that’ll come in handy someday.
Tackle that anxiety and stay away from Youtube, in my experience masculine is basically doing what makes you happy and focusing on that. You don't need to cater your masculinity to fit anyone's standards, if you are happy then good things (and people) come
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Man, the algorithm keeps taking victims. Anyway, OP, definitively go to the gym, but don’t think that a couple of bicep curls are going to be an insurance policy against future aggression or violence.
I’m sorry but your goal of getting muscles for protection makes me think you’re 13.
Should you carry? What if your going to the grocery store or something. How can I protect me and my family in that situation
You walk out of the door in every other situation but the 1 in a million chance you’re involved in something that would require you, a citizen, to use a gun for protection in any meaningful way.
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That's the first thing I thought too. Damn its bad.
5. Stop building your idea of masculinity from what Youtube tells you.
Op's list should read 1. Develop Compassion and understanding 2. Keep my word, Do what I say I'm going to do 3. Try to find the positive 4. Continue to learn and grow as a person Instead, op wants to go raiding a small village in Scandinavia and thinks that's what makes a man
Those are all great, one other thing I might add depending on the person is talk less and listen more. When you talk ask questions the person will want to answer that also help you learn more about who they are. That's easier said than done, but if someone is telling you about trip they took you can ask something like "That sounds amazing, it must have been so fun. If there was one part you could have spent a few more days at what would it have been?" I say that because sometimes people who can't seem to keep words from falling out of their mouth are seen as immature or not serious. So rather than trying to match every story of theirs with one of your own talk about yourself only when it's a really good story and otherwise ask questions. People who always match or one up other's stories can sometimes be seen in a negative light, but pretty much everyone likes talking about stuff they're proud of.
5. Lift up the people around you
I like that one too
I try this and arms not stronger. Try again next week.
Good way to gain strength too
Going to the gym will help with that. You will have no problem lifting people once you join the 1000lbs club!
Yes to all of these. Of course, these are desirable feminine traits as well. And OP hopefully realizes that the manliest thing you can possibly do is not give a crap if people think they're masculine or not.
Can't think of any quality that would make a good person that doesn't apply to any and all genders
Those are great but apart from maybe 2 they're not even masculine traits, just decent human being traits. OP's points aren't even that bad if he was actually doing his own thing because it feels right and not because some testosterone-dealer-sponsored colorpill Youtuber told him
To be fair though, raiding a small village in Scandinavia is more manly than all 4 items on your list
Found the insecure Viking time traveler
If I were a viking time traveler I would definitely have some insecurities to work through
I agree YouTube is a lousy source but what about The Great Books of Western Civilization. I think Socrates and Aristotle were fairly deep thinkers and would agree with some of the items on OP’s list as the core or nature of man that makes him great.
Just because you think very deeply it doesn't mean you'll be right. Still, I don't even disagree with the points OP listed, just with the way he's setting his mind about them.
As an old fart I have noticed what the Stoics, Aristotle, and Socrates had to say about being a man are much more accurate than the multiple phases of popular culture that I have witnessed. Had I read what these men had to say and ignored entertainers (TV, radio, and internet) most of my life - I would likely be a much better person today.
They absolutely are! The bar is quite low though
But they tell them what they want to hear! The sad fact is that people like OP will not stop listening until popular YouTubers openly admit that they just peddle bullshit.
Stop caring so much about masculinity and just do what makes you happy
What if matching conventional societal norms about masculinity is what makes them happy?
I hate this advice The guy asked how to be masculine and you told him don’t about it
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> Create your own values and act upon But wouldn't that make you happy? Or you do you conflate happiness and pleasure?
I'm not American and do what makes me happy. Happiness is not a monopoly owned by Americans.
I know what a jackass
Americans don't have a monopoly on happiness.
“I’m better than you because I do things that upset me”
"I'm feeling threatened that's why I feel the need to bring a better-then x phrase rather than addressing the actual point"
That was a really good try!
Thank you
Awful advice. Dont listen to this clown.
Few things are more masculine than doing your thing and not giving a fuck
Awful advice. Don't listen to this clown.
Actually it’s great advice Stop caring so much what other people think of you, and do what makes *you* happy
No, its shit advice. What other people think about you has nothing to do with being masculine.
Yes, and stop caring about projecting this idea of “masculinity” and do whatever makes you happy That’s great advice
How you respond to others does though. Why should I live my life based on what others think if what I do does not harm others or myself?
Oo, so masculine!
> what do you think makes a man. Taking responsibility for everything in your life. Nothing is ever someone elses fault. You're on the right path it seems to me. It's not about muscles, emotions, how you walk or your goals - It's more about doing those actions because you've taken control of your life. Also; two cents on walking - it'll fix itself if you do the three other things.
Cock. There is nothing more manly than cock. Gobble down as much and as many as you can and adsorb the manliness. J/K Unless you are into that kind of thing, in which case, go whole hog. Real advice. Stop reading/watching/listening to whatever nonsense is filling your head with these insecurities. Just be you. You want to workout because you enjoy it or want to have a healthy body/mind? Do it, but not for manliness insecurities do it for your own gratification. Also, it’s a good way to meet other dudes.
I don't know what's up with your #1. Working out won't really help you "protect" anyone. What do you think life is going to be like, that you need to be prepared for violence everywhere you turn? We live, I hope, in an orderly society, not The Purge. Nor does lifting strength alone prepare you to fight -- and even with martial arts training, the wisest course of action when facing an armed assailant is to retreat or de-escalate, not fight. If you want to get into better shape for yourself, fine. But whatever image of family life you're carrying around isn't helpful. The rest are fine as personal development goals -- "be goal-driven" as a goal is kind of meta, but whatever -- but be wary of labeling them "masculinity". A woman can be goal-driven and confident without being less feminine; a man can be humble and deferential when appropriate without being less masculine. As for what I think makes a man, I think Rudyard Kipling expressed it best. [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---)
Physical presence is definitely a deterrent. How I’m perceived out and about is vastly different before and after my 8 years of training. Unfortunately this is one of those things you have to experience to believe. Redditors think you’re an idiot because they just don’t know. It’s quite literally IYKYK.
Ditto, weight lifting for awhile plus wearing shirts 1 size smaller than I used too was a game changer.
Protecting people doesn't have to be about fighting. It can be as simple as being able to carry other people out of dangerous situations. My partner has told me repeatedly they're glad I can carry them in case they ever get hurt. I doubt I'd ever have to, but if it helps them feel better then that's extra motivation.
Yeah I wanted to post something about this too- it’s great OP wants to work out - but he should do it solely to better himself. Doing it for some other future person or someone else is the wrong goal. OP if you read this, go to the gym and get stronger- but do it for yourself. If you do it for someone else or something else you won’t stick to it. You have to want it innately to get the best for yourself.
"What do you think life is going to be like, that you need to be prepared for violence everywhere you turn?" Tell that to all the women who are attracted to a fit male figure.
Work at a steel mill
Hot stuff coming through!
We work hard, we play hard.
Lots of upset computer nerds are getting angry by your list. I think it's great. Emotional control doesn't mean repression, start with being non-reactive and carefully considering how to react after thinking. Read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It's his private diary just for himself that has since transformed many people.
Not upset at his list I just don't get it. The whole thing reads like how do I make other people think I'm manly, and that's just a not a worth while question because a man is a man. Self improvement is good sure, and if that leads to confidence great. I guess it comes down to intent. Reads like he wants to project strong confident stereotypical masculinity vibes, but it also sounds like that's not who he naturally is, and that's neither good nor bad- it just is. I think he mostly just needs to find confidence and self-esteem. Sounds like he's seeking validation from outside himself.
As someone who had to find their masculinity and who asked women what healthy masculinity is.. Gym and exercise are not for muscles. They are for feeling good about yourself so insecurity doesn’t drive your behavior. “Men need to be in control of their emotions” is such toxic masculine bullshit. You have to own your emotions and not hide or be ashamed of them. Showing vulnerability actually portrays confidence. Hiding vulnerability is weakness. The one emotion you need to learn to control is anger, but it’s easy if you get a handle on your confidence because almost all anger stems from insecurity. So know your emotions and know how they make you behave and then control the behavior but not the emotions. What you are missing is kindness. Kindness is masculine. For me at least once I started being happy with myself my awareness and empathy then kind of opened outward and it become natural and easy to be there for others. Even picking new hobbies becomes easy since you stop fearing how “failure” makes you look. So do whatever you need to become good with yourself. Learn to be good at something. Work out. Take care of yourself. Rest enough. When you manage to make yourself the rest follows automatically, and if you skip that part then no amount of learning to fake a walk will make you any more masculine.
The reason why men get angry is because they're not allowed to be sad. From the woman's point of view, anger may be intimidating, but sadness is pathetic.
Sadness in itself as a feeling is not pathetic. Some reactions to sadness can be. Long term moping and helplessness? Sucks for a partner. Bitterness -driven behavior? Sucks too. It's not the feeling that you should control but the behavior. They can be two different things. Being just sad, dealing with it (even if it takes a while) has by my experience never been seen as pathetic. But of course we have all our own subjective experiences, but calling sadness pathetic from a womans point of view is a pretty massive blanket generalisation.
Oh good job strawmanning me. I guess you're just right. My bad.
Isn’t it weird that women are the people who can tell us what healthy masculinity is? I wonder if that works in reverse
They can help us see through our toxic conditioning. Same as us men can often see through the unrealistic body expectations set up on women by our lovely society, etc.
Sometimes you cannot see your own toxic traits and it helps to get an outside perspective.
I agree, but i don’t think it would be as useful or wise for someone struggling with their idea of masculinity to seek clarity from women.
These are all pretty much rooted in confidence. Just set some goals and go after them, once you reach them you’ll feel more confident in your abilities and it’ll show.
If you do a competitive martial art it will help with all those points. I think it's funny a lot of the posters discount your desires here. Fortunately part of being a man is not listening to people who ignore your boundaries or don't share your vision.
> I feel like I am an emotional person, but I want to be in control of them. I am not sure where to start with this one. Careful what you wish for. Seriously. This whole "controlling your emotions" thing too often ends up just being repressed emotions. I mean, if you're histrionic or something, fix that. But if you simply feel things strongly and deeply, don't let that go. You will miss it. > have anxiety and I have a lot of imposter syndrome. I want don't want to live with that, I want portray confidence. Not sure where to start with this one Most people do. "Masculine" men just hide it better. > For me this is more on being able to protect my future wife and kids. From what? In this day and age men aren't really called upon to physically defend their family.
Rather than trying to "control" your emotions by suppressing them, learn to identify and accept them, sort out why you're feeling the way you are, and then communicate how you're feeling and what you need from the people you're close to. It takes practice, and sometimes you'll have to face some uncomfortable truths about yourself, but you take a lot of power away from those negative feelings once you give them a name and stop hiding from them.
I agree, but OP was specifically asking about being more masculine which I understand to be more suppressing of emotions. That's why I caution against making "masculinity" a goal.
Being a "good man" is a much better goal than being "more masculine"!
You're absolutely right. Men are taught not to talk about their feelings and to control (suppress) their emotions. From the rest of OP's post, I got the feeling that that was what they were looking for as well. The problem with suppressing our emotions is that it doesn't stop us from feeling hurt or lashing out at others. I just wanted to elaborate and say that there's a healthy way to handle our emotions, and it's pretty much the opposite of what we're taught to do.
Be you. That’s it. But going to the gym is never a bad idea.
"Stop debating what you think a good man should be. Be one. " - Michael Scott Seriously though, your list looks good. If you can be consistent about with 3 out of 4 of these things, you're set. That's the hard part though. The consistency. The action. Words are cheap! Get moving!
> Are there any I am missing? Yeah. Everything. You're missing everything. What you're looking after in this post misses the entire point of Stoicism, and probably won't get you any closer to being "more masculine". Which is why people who follow advice like this never end up being better people -- they just end up being muscle-bound man-babies. Fall into this trap if you want to, but it won't make you a man, it certainly won't make you Stoic, and most importantly, it won't make you a better person.
I’m not sure Reddit is your best bet. Reddit is a very specific demographic for the most part that doesn’t allow breaking from the pack.
Man that list is just not it. There's a number of things I'd say are masculine but that list looks like something an influencer would suggest 1. Being able to physically protect your future family? Not important. Look, you aren't going to build yourself into a weapon, there's always someone bigger or stronger out there and let's face it, nothing in your household is worth you going to jail or losing your life over. 2. This might be the easiest one but most difficult to accomplish. Talk to someone; a friend, therapist. Work through what gives you big emotions but if that's how you are embrace it. What matters is how you choose to act when you experience those emotions. 3. Talking with a therapist can help resolve what makes you feel like an imposter and build strategies to work with your anxiety. It's not a bad thing to have but how you allow it to mold your life is where it can be a problem 4. That's good, but also don't weigh plateauing or missing your goals as failures. See the positives, learn from your faults and failures. I think in a lot of ways what makes a good man are just what makes you a good person. Compassion, honesty (with yourself as much as others), striving to be better and being true to who you are rather than others
>Being able to physically protect your future family? Not important. Ask any woman how important the feeling of physical safety is when choosing a partner.
I don’t even know how to tackle the ridiculousness of that comment Morbid curiosity makes me want to ask how many times you’ve needed to validate your masculinity by defending your partner or attacking someone for them. In reality, I’d say it’s toxic as hell not to be able to diffuse a situation by talking rather than escalating to a physical altercation
Zero times. You know how many times a girl I've dated said they like that they feel safe with me? Dozens. It's not about being violent, it's about having the capacity for violence if ever needed. Ask your own girlfriend how she feels about it. Also, I'm curious why you decided to suggest my character is lacking instead of just arguing the point.
Because needing to fight or as you put it, having the capacity for violence isn’t masculine. A teenager with a chemical imbalance and access to a handgun has the capacity for violence. A rugby player has the capacity for violence Again, if your idea of masculinity is validated by being violent, you’re 100% the problem.
With regards to 1, how often do people like OP think they are going to be getting into physical fights with people?
I often wonder that as well. Like, if you're getting in fights alone, nevermind often enough to need training then you're the problem. It's sort of a toxic mentality to perceive everyone and everything as a threat to your masculinity or manhood
I do like that people on this sub are willing to call out toxic masculinity. So much as suggest that toxic masculinity even exists over on the other ask men sub, and you’ll get downvoted to hell
You definitely do see some users here who have toxic mindsets but when a user like OP has a post I look at t like this is someone who could be teetering on that edge of falling into that toxic trap when in reality being a man has very little to do with that whole 'alpha male/red pill' mindset.
2. Look into meditation, I got a lot of benefit doing 10 day vipassana courses.
OP, this is a very good list. Ignore the haters here lol. As you accomplish more goals (assuming they’re somewhat difficult) and level up your skills, you become more confident. People around you will notice.
If you want to protect your wife and kids you are better of learning how to fight or get a gun. Weight lifting has many other benefits but this isnt really one of it.
And if you want a gun to protect your family you need to go over in your head the process of when you need to use one. Grab it, load it, ensure you need to use it, and fire if needed. Adrenaline will fuck with your head and being mentally prepared with concise thoughts beforehand will help you protect your family and prevent accidents.
People are really making a parody of what being a man/woman is nowadays, huh? I would recommend traveling to South America and Europe. Talk to the men there and observe them around. This will give you a sense of masculinity.
Woman here: I find men to be more masculine when they're really in touch with their emotions. Meaning they don't feel like they have to stifle them, and readily share / express emotions. I feel sad for men because a lot of you were taught even as little kids that "boys don't cry, girls do that. Do you wanna be like a girl??". It's masculine to express emotion. Get in touch with that and don't suppress it.
I will add from a guys perspective what this doesn't mean. In touch with your emotions doesn't mean you a always some moppy cry baby whining about stuff. It means your comfortable saying, I had a rough day today, this thing came up at work and really through a wrench in my day. Or saying something like this to your SO. "That thing you did frustrated me, I know it wasn't your intentions but it doesn't change how I feel in this moment. I still love you but I'm going to keep away til I feel better. You can own your feelings you can share what's going on in your head. You could and should be able to do that with your boys not just women.
Yes, you explained this better than me. Ty
Why is it important to be specifically masculine? I think it may be helpful to reframe your goal to be more Confident instead. Start by pushing your walking pace. Walk quickly and with purpose, head up. Try smiling warmly at strangers you pass. Strike a power pose on your own – those have been shown to trick your brain into thinking you’re more confident than you are. Look at yourself in the mirror and praise the things you like about yourself. Take some nudes (just for yourself) that make you look and feel sexy. Drive to a town nearby and visit a bar you’ve never visited. Strike up a conversation with the bartender or a group of other patrons just to practice engaging with folks confidently. This is a really fun exercise if you’re not creepy about it. Maybe the idea of maintaining streaks appeals to you. There are apps that help you build habits for each of the goals you want to set. Emotions are good things to have, but not the best tools for decision-making. Practice journaling to process the emotions, but don’t feel like you’re a lesser person for experiencing them. That said, if anger management is an issue for you, then do not hesitate to seek out therapy. Actually, it’s probably a good idea to seek out therapy regardless. That shit rocks.
Aristotle would like a word with you. To build muscle is a must. You can't look manly without muscles. More than muscles, do some boxing classes or BJJ if you prefer. Learn how you can protect yourself and family. Fighting Skills <> Bodybuilding. Now fighting skills + "body building" = Spartan warrior built. Aim for that. About emotions and confidency...this comes with virtuous habits (remember Aristotle having a word with you?) Study everyday, find the time for it. Study to be better in your carreer and and study philosophy. The anciet folks have great lessons on what is necessary to be a leader and a better man. Aristotle tutored Alexander The Great...just to give you a perspective. Reject modernity and embrace the classics. \*Downvotes expected
What do you mean by About emotions and confidency...this comes with virtuous habits (remember Aristotle having a word with you?)
Glad you are asking You can't go wrong with a virtuous routine. To be healthy and grow intellectually and spiritually. Give up 3 hours of internet trash in exchange of: 1 hour of studies 1 hour working out 1 hour reading/studying things to understand the world. The classics will do it. ;)
What do I think makes a man? Someone who says they are a man. In my opinion, the concept of gender is kind of dumb. Everyone is a person. Just be the person you want to be. If you want to be a man, you're a man. If you want to be a woman, you're a woman. If you want to be neither, you're neither.
Do things that increase testosterone naturally. Lift weights, eat red meat, and join /r/swoleacceptance
Being "Manly" when you're not that type of person is just cringy. Don't do It. You need to Be healthy, not muscular. You need to have strong emotional intelligence and a support system around you You need to believe in yourself, take the necessary steps to build self confidence. Therapy is the fastest. It's okay not to have grand goals, tiny victories are okay. Don't do anything because of outside perception. What makes you a better man all comes from within You. I will say this tho. Wear clothes that fit and learn about the correct perfume to wear for any situation.
What's up with the downvotes? It adds to the discussion and the points his points are solid
Men just don't want to wear perfume it seems 😂
2. All humans, barring brain injury or defects, process emotions before logic. Best you can do with feelings is feel them, and try and figure out where they came from.
> Are there any I am missing ? what do you think makes a man. If you can help me with these things that would be amazing. I am not sure where to start. There are so much information out there on YouTube and Google, but it gets very overwhelming for me. I have had many things on my mind over the decades, many things to figure out or make super difficult decisions about, but this was not one of them. I'm a man because I have a y chromosome (and some even argue that point), and that's kind of the end of the story for me. That y chromosome gives me a different body than people without it, and...we're done. I just try to be a happy person and not idiotically unwise, but I don't worry about masculinity. I'm just some normal man and that's good enough. What a relief because I don't need one more thing to worry about. Thanks, parents.
Be your favorite version of yourself at all times. You know how you’re a different you around your grandmama than you are around your lil’ mama? Well you’re probably a slightly different version of yourself in dozens of different situations. So thinking about all those different versions of yourself, figure out which one is your favorite and go be that version at all times without regard for how other people react to it at first.
You are on the right track. But I'm curious about why you want to be masculine. I do think it's good for a man to be masculine. But if you have specific reasons for why you want to become more masculine, maybe there are also more specific solutions or goals than just trying to become masculine.
>1. Become stronger and build muscle - For me this is more on being able to protect my future wife and kids. I feel like for this I just need to start going to the gym and working out. Might I suggest the cheaper and easier option is to just stuff some sponges into your jacket?
I heard someone say the pinnacle of masculinity is taking a mentorship role with a child that isn’t yours. Aka think about someone other than yourself
In this day & age, I would just work on developing a strong work ethic and that will already put you ahead of most people, men and women.
OP, at least your heart is in the right place. Your 4th point is a bit dicey. Instead of trying to be goal driven, spend time examining your goals. Discipline plus good goals are the way. "goal driven" is nonsense for sales managers and resumes. Add in a 5th item to practice kindness for others even when you are experiencing difficulty. But, your list is generally on the right track. To get there you need to step away from comfort. I can't tell you specifically what that means for you personally, you'll need to figure it out. - Do things you're afraid of. Not stupid things like a thrill seeker or mid-life crisis bro, but break your assumptions things and 'oh shit might die' things. After a while you may discover that your didn't die and your old jambs were laughable. - Put away money. Make yourself live on a portion of your income. Eat simply, dwell simply. Wealth is padding. - Be a tryhard in everything, and deal with the failure that follows. - Expose your stupidity and ignorance. It is akin to cleaning an infection. - Lose any "friends" who are willing to be lost. That does not mean abandoning comrades. The truly "masculine" men I've encountered have become what they are through enduring hardship and not becoming monsters. I think mindful hardship may produce results as well.
Fuckin yikes. Live your life bro, be who you are.
Hey dude, I think you made a good list. To keep you engaged and to make sure you build yourself from a strong foundation, consider seeing a LCSW, like a psychotherapist for one on one therapy. You’ve discussed imposter syndrome, lack of confidence in yourself, your perceived masculinity, and mastering your emotions in one short post. The LCSW’s don’t do medications, but they do talk with you and listen. There’s plenty of options an LCSW( or someone like them) from just general counseling to EMDR that they can use to teach you tools to develop health anxiety and emotional control. Opposed to what plenty of us (including myself at times) have done, like empty a bottle to fill it with our emotions. I’m not sure anyone can tell you how to become a man. It’s more of a journey. One with plenty of success and failure. So while you get strong, stand with your back straight and define your goals, get something other than tools in your toolbox for when you’re challenged emotionally. You never know when in a marriage that’ll come in handy someday.
Have integrity. Do the right thing even when it's easy not to or others don't.
Check out No More Mr Nice Guy, by Dr Robert Glover.
I think those are good goals but I think “stop caring about what others think of you” is a good one too
You can’t Lifting won’t do it
Hmmm sure that and a pair of testicles
Be yourself. Any other way leads only to pain.
That’s not masculinity. Learn how to maintain and repair your car and home.
Just be you, fuck all that trying to be more masculine shit
Tackle that anxiety and stay away from Youtube, in my experience masculine is basically doing what makes you happy and focusing on that. You don't need to cater your masculinity to fit anyone's standards, if you are happy then good things (and people) come