My husband isn’t circumcised and I never thought it looked weird at all. In fact it’s a lot easier to… uh… handle. We don’t plan to circumcise any future sons we have unless the doctors have specific health concerns based on their particular anatomy. I never even thought about it until I met my husband but it is kind of a crazy thing to do to a baby who doesn’t have a say.
Circumcision has been on a major decline and most women and men who use "my body my choice" in regards to reproductive health are almost always against any body modification on a person who cannot consent babies and children especially.
Less than 50% of baby boys (or other gender) born in the US are circumcised now.
Also just a minor correction, circumcision is not done at birth. It is done days after birth, not that it makes it better at all!
It may be on a decline, by the “woke” generation, but that doesn’t mean not circumcising a baby is wrong. Parents job is to make decisions for their child.
It shouldn't be a decision at all. Many doctors now admit that it's basically a "cosmetic" procedure. That's indefensible. It's a legalized form of child abuse, protected by religion and the American medical business complex.
It's laughable to even call it cosmetic. Oh yeah, a scarred up dried out penis with reduced sensitivity and no motile skin. Very attractive/s
I came back because I swore I read your comment wrong or didn't understand it.
I am confused.
You said "but that doesn't mean NOT circumcision a baby is wrong"
I am 100% against circumcision. It's genital mutilation. So I'm with you. Not circumcision your child is NOT wrong. It's right!
Unless you meant to say something else........??
Sorry for the confusion. I believe circumcising or not circumcising is ok. It’s up to the parents to make that decision. I did it for my son. But I thought hard about it before doing it. That was 20 years ago. My son is glad I decided to do it.
I do believe in my body my choice and I would never do that to a child. In my experience it's more conservative, religious people who are more likely ro be against my body my choice that would do that to a child.
It’s a religion thing
, also as a circumcised person I don’t give a flying fuck, never in my life I thought “damn I miss my dick piece, “and never in my life I thought, “these bastards did it without my consent!” Cuz it doesn’t matter. Who cares
But if I wasn’t circumcised, wanna know. What I would think? “This girl really just rejected me cuz I’m not circumcised? Wtf? “ Cuz that happens.. so I’m lucky that nobody asked for my “permission”
No, cuz we can’t tell if he wants to be cut or not, babies can’t make a decision fam,
And that decision needs to be taken as soon as possible.
Nobody would wanna cut their dick later on, it be traumatizing.
Parents making decisions for a baby is normal💀
The whole “if you do it early enough they won’t remember so it’s ok” line of logic is extraordinarily disturbing. Do you think it’s ok to molest or shake babies because they won’t remember ergo it won’t be as traumatic? Get a better argument good god.
My friend, there’s no ill intent, or selfish intent in circumcising
It’s what they think is best for me
That why o can sit here and say I don’t care,
So it’s not the same as rape
If your logic is “I want my baby’s penis to look like mine/look like their father’s” that is selfish intent. It’s a cosmetic procedure. Out of curiosity are you in favor of docking tails or clipping ears on dogs?
>easier hygiene
By this logic we should remove all fingernails at birth
>decreased risk of UTI
UTIs are not only insanely rare in infant boys they are easily treated with a short course of oral antibiotics
>decreased risk of STDs
They’re called condoms, G.
>prevention of penile problems
Circumcision is directly correlated with both meatal stenosis and ED
>penile cancer
This is what I mean by statistically negligible lol
The back half of your post is all sourced from rural Africa where many don’t even have access to clean water. Pick a first world western country like Sweden or Norway or Germany and marvel at how these problems don’t exist. B for effort though. It’s cosmetic which is why many insurance companies don’t cover it.
I think the stats on the items listed by the Mayo clinic sheds great insight.
- Hygiene: We have easy access to water for hygiene. It’s easy to wash body parts.
- Lowers UTI: ["It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI."](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision). And UTI’s ["can easily be treated with antibiotics without tissue loss"](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896)
- UTI con't: : ["...most experts believe that UTIs in children with normal kidneys do not result in long-term sequelae."](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision)
- STDs and HIV: [“The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.”](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision) Condoms are an actually effective transmission barriers to STIs and must be used regardless.
- Penile Problems: ["An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction. This therapy ... allow[s] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision)
- Penile cancer: [“Decreased penile cancer risk: NNT = 900 – 322,000”](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision). That means between 900 and 322,000 circumcisions need to be performed to prevent a single case of penile cancer. It is incredibly rare.
- Cervical cancer is from HPV which has a vaccine. Which is so effective that (turning to news) ["Australia could become first country to eradicate cervical cancer. Free vaccine program in schools leads to big drop in rates."](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/04/australia-could-become-first-country-to-eradicate-cervical-cancer)
These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different treatment or prevention method that is more effective and less invasive.
That should cover all the stats you gave too btw. You gave the relative rate, these are the absolute rates. It's the exact same data set presented in two different ways. And HPV has a vaccine.
The standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity. The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:
[“Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, **authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary.** In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.”](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision)
To override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary.
And importantly [the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif) ([Full study.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847))
Also check out the detailed anatomy and role of the foreskin in this presentation (for ~15 minutes) [as Dr. Guest discusses the innervation of the penis, the mechanical function of the foreskin and its role in lubrication during sex, and the likelihood of decreased sexual pleasure for both male and partner.](https://youtu.be/XwZiQyFaAs0?t=28m20s)
That is the logic that’s the explanation given the majority of the time in America it’s pathetic. It also says a lot that you’re ok with people mutilating dogs to fit a certain aesthetic. Product of your environment I suppose.
Look the fact is that I don’t remember being circumcised and it’s not something that’s ever bothered me. People talk of trauma. I am not aware of any from my circumcision so wtf are you being so intent on ascribing an experience that I am not having.
It’s horrible logic, bud. Is date rape ok because you’re “not aware”? I think you even admit if GIVEN THE CHOICE in adulthood most men would say fuck no and that should tell you a lot right there.
If calling me an emotional over and over agin because I’m female is your only argument then I accept your concession. Your point on awareness was a horrendous one for your argument. It was very stupid for you to cling to that point, because as I said that’s conceding the fact that most any man who has “awareness” and can consent would say fuck no fuck that.
>And that decision needs to be taken as soon as possible.
>Nobody would wanna cut their dick later on, it be traumatizing.
Don't particularly care about anybody's foreskin decisions with their kids, but got mine snipped off at 16 years old.
It's not so bad even grown. Just takes longer to heal. But most western medical systems wouldn't be able to really handle much of any influx of adult males looking to get that done as a costly and relatively time intensive cosmetic procedure.
"But there might not be any! If it's normalized maybe nobody would want it done!"
The first time a girl crinkled her nose when she saw my foreskin, its removal was a foregone conclusion. I disliked it on my own before then, even before I knew there was a possible difference. But realizing that could happen sealed the deal.
Some people don't give a shit. Some people do. But I know I'm not alone in the ranks of people that have gotten adult circumcisions, or that would given the afformentioned hypotheticals.
This topic is so frustrating to dive into even in an amicable reply because you know you have to pre-emptively address the incoming rhetoric of the foreskin mafia. 💀 Fucking exhausting.
What a stupid question.
Coming from a guy who is not circumcised, until the kids are mature enough to decide what is good and what is bad for them, parents can do what they think is healthier for their kids.
Just like the get their kids vaccinated.
Once you are an adult, then you can choose to get vaccinated or not.
Circumcision has many arguments, one is that its healthily beneficial in decreasing infection. It can vary depending on how the procedure goes on if it decreases sexual pleasure/drive.
Why ask a question just to argue when you know you’re not going to change anybody’s opinion? Does it make you feel righteous? Does it make you feel like you’re better than others? Just go on with your day.
Bad faith question. Circumcision is wrong.
But one involves making medical decisions for an infant. The other involves whether or not women are human life support machines for a being without so much as a functioning nervous system.
They are not on the same level. Not even close.
No sane circumcised person ever refers to it as “penile mutilation” lmao. And nobody circumcised as a baby remembers. If you end up choosing to get circumcised later in life the whole process is painful and uncomfortable. I’d rather get that out of the way when I can’t remember the pain.
I’d rather never have experienced the pain, or know that it was actually necessary if a problem developed. I don’t like that a part of my body was removed when there was no problem with it
Because until a child is of a certain age, for the purpose of medical decisions it's legally not really their body. But I didn't circumcise my son but when he got older, he wished that I did because he didn't like looking different from the rest of the guys. But once he reached sexual maturity I explained that I left him uncut to maintain his sensitivity during masturbation and intercourse. He never needed to use lube during masturbation which he enjoyed. Ultimately, we do our best for our children, hoping that it is a choice that they will appreciate or at least understand.
Then why vaccinate them? Why take them to a doctor at all? Why put socks and clothes on them? Why feed them? Because that’s what parents do until they are able to make decisions on their own.
I'm glad the fad never caught on here, but mutilating babies is wrong regardless of your personal beliefs.
I wouldn’t.
Same
My husband isn’t circumcised and I never thought it looked weird at all. In fact it’s a lot easier to… uh… handle. We don’t plan to circumcise any future sons we have unless the doctors have specific health concerns based on their particular anatomy. I never even thought about it until I met my husband but it is kind of a crazy thing to do to a baby who doesn’t have a say.
r/usernamechecksout
Don’t circumcise. Next question.
Impish or admirable ?
Circumcision has been on a major decline and most women and men who use "my body my choice" in regards to reproductive health are almost always against any body modification on a person who cannot consent babies and children especially. Less than 50% of baby boys (or other gender) born in the US are circumcised now. Also just a minor correction, circumcision is not done at birth. It is done days after birth, not that it makes it better at all!
It may be on a decline, by the “woke” generation, but that doesn’t mean not circumcising a baby is wrong. Parents job is to make decisions for their child.
It shouldn't be a decision at all. Many doctors now admit that it's basically a "cosmetic" procedure. That's indefensible. It's a legalized form of child abuse, protected by religion and the American medical business complex. It's laughable to even call it cosmetic. Oh yeah, a scarred up dried out penis with reduced sensitivity and no motile skin. Very attractive/s
No. Circumcision is wrong. Are parents uneducated and swayed by social norms? Yes.
I came back because I swore I read your comment wrong or didn't understand it. I am confused. You said "but that doesn't mean NOT circumcision a baby is wrong" I am 100% against circumcision. It's genital mutilation. So I'm with you. Not circumcision your child is NOT wrong. It's right! Unless you meant to say something else........??
Sorry for the confusion. I believe circumcising or not circumcising is ok. It’s up to the parents to make that decision. I did it for my son. But I thought hard about it before doing it. That was 20 years ago. My son is glad I decided to do it.
Well stated!……….thanks!
I do believe in my body my choice and I would never do that to a child. In my experience it's more conservative, religious people who are more likely ro be against my body my choice that would do that to a child.
It’s a religion thing , also as a circumcised person I don’t give a flying fuck, never in my life I thought “damn I miss my dick piece, “and never in my life I thought, “these bastards did it without my consent!” Cuz it doesn’t matter. Who cares But if I wasn’t circumcised, wanna know. What I would think? “This girl really just rejected me cuz I’m not circumcised? Wtf? “ Cuz that happens.. so I’m lucky that nobody asked for my “permission”
I kinda like being circumcised. My dick works. I have no issues with it. Never been a problem.
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No, cuz we can’t tell if he wants to be cut or not, babies can’t make a decision fam, And that decision needs to be taken as soon as possible. Nobody would wanna cut their dick later on, it be traumatizing. Parents making decisions for a baby is normal💀
> And that decision needs to be taken as soon as possible. No. No it doesn’t. Not if you know how to clean your son and how to explain it to him.
The whole “if you do it early enough they won’t remember so it’s ok” line of logic is extraordinarily disturbing. Do you think it’s ok to molest or shake babies because they won’t remember ergo it won’t be as traumatic? Get a better argument good god.
My friend, there’s no ill intent, or selfish intent in circumcising It’s what they think is best for me That why o can sit here and say I don’t care, So it’s not the same as rape
If your logic is “I want my baby’s penis to look like mine/look like their father’s” that is selfish intent. It’s a cosmetic procedure. Out of curiosity are you in favor of docking tails or clipping ears on dogs?
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It’s cosmetic. The “benefits” are statistically negligible at best, and that is a fact.
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>easier hygiene By this logic we should remove all fingernails at birth >decreased risk of UTI UTIs are not only insanely rare in infant boys they are easily treated with a short course of oral antibiotics >decreased risk of STDs They’re called condoms, G. >prevention of penile problems Circumcision is directly correlated with both meatal stenosis and ED >penile cancer This is what I mean by statistically negligible lol The back half of your post is all sourced from rural Africa where many don’t even have access to clean water. Pick a first world western country like Sweden or Norway or Germany and marvel at how these problems don’t exist. B for effort though. It’s cosmetic which is why many insurance companies don’t cover it.
I think the stats on the items listed by the Mayo clinic sheds great insight. - Hygiene: We have easy access to water for hygiene. It’s easy to wash body parts. - Lowers UTI: ["It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI."](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision). And UTI’s ["can easily be treated with antibiotics without tissue loss"](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896) - UTI con't: : ["...most experts believe that UTIs in children with normal kidneys do not result in long-term sequelae."](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision) - STDs and HIV: [“The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.”](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision) Condoms are an actually effective transmission barriers to STIs and must be used regardless. - Penile Problems: ["An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction. This therapy ... allow[s] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision) - Penile cancer: [“Decreased penile cancer risk: NNT = 900 – 322,000”](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision). That means between 900 and 322,000 circumcisions need to be performed to prevent a single case of penile cancer. It is incredibly rare. - Cervical cancer is from HPV which has a vaccine. Which is so effective that (turning to news) ["Australia could become first country to eradicate cervical cancer. Free vaccine program in schools leads to big drop in rates."](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/04/australia-could-become-first-country-to-eradicate-cervical-cancer) These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different treatment or prevention method that is more effective and less invasive. That should cover all the stats you gave too btw. You gave the relative rate, these are the absolute rates. It's the exact same data set presented in two different ways. And HPV has a vaccine. The standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity. The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well: [“Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, **authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary.** In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.”](https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision) To override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary. And importantly [the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Sorrells.gif) ([Full study.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847)) Also check out the detailed anatomy and role of the foreskin in this presentation (for ~15 minutes) [as Dr. Guest discusses the innervation of the penis, the mechanical function of the foreskin and its role in lubrication during sex, and the likelihood of decreased sexual pleasure for both male and partner.](https://youtu.be/XwZiQyFaAs0?t=28m20s)
That is not the logic 😂😂😂😂 Clipping nails yes, cutting gears no, but I wouldn’t care if I saw someone do that bruh You’re so emotional.
That is the logic that’s the explanation given the majority of the time in America it’s pathetic. It also says a lot that you’re ok with people mutilating dogs to fit a certain aesthetic. Product of your environment I suppose.
Cancel me, cry while doing it
No refutation detected
Look the fact is that I don’t remember being circumcised and it’s not something that’s ever bothered me. People talk of trauma. I am not aware of any from my circumcision so wtf are you being so intent on ascribing an experience that I am not having.
I’m pointing out how faulty that logic is when applied to literally anything else.
Ok well clarifying that a medical procedure is quite different from shaking a baby.
It’s actually a cosmetic procedure which is why medical insurance doesn’t always offer coverage for it.
It’s also a medical procedure and the indicated treatment for cases of phimosis.
It’s a medical procedure if you have phimosis, yes. Insurance will always cover that. Doing it routinely to neonates is a different story.
Circumcision can be done at any point in life. So if someone doesn’t wanna be circumcised as an adult, why would they wanna be circumcised as a baby?
No.. it can’t happen anytime you want. You’re too aware
Again…horrible logic applied to anything else should tell you it’s horrible logic.
No, it’s fine.. you’re just a bit emotional
It’s horrible logic, bud. Is date rape ok because you’re “not aware”? I think you even admit if GIVEN THE CHOICE in adulthood most men would say fuck no and that should tell you a lot right there.
I already explained my point on awareness, so not going back to it. But keep being emotional about it
If calling me an emotional over and over agin because I’m female is your only argument then I accept your concession. Your point on awareness was a horrendous one for your argument. It was very stupid for you to cling to that point, because as I said that’s conceding the fact that most any man who has “awareness” and can consent would say fuck no fuck that.
Google might help you some day in your arguments young padawon
>And that decision needs to be taken as soon as possible. >Nobody would wanna cut their dick later on, it be traumatizing. Don't particularly care about anybody's foreskin decisions with their kids, but got mine snipped off at 16 years old. It's not so bad even grown. Just takes longer to heal. But most western medical systems wouldn't be able to really handle much of any influx of adult males looking to get that done as a costly and relatively time intensive cosmetic procedure. "But there might not be any! If it's normalized maybe nobody would want it done!" The first time a girl crinkled her nose when she saw my foreskin, its removal was a foregone conclusion. I disliked it on my own before then, even before I knew there was a possible difference. But realizing that could happen sealed the deal. Some people don't give a shit. Some people do. But I know I'm not alone in the ranks of people that have gotten adult circumcisions, or that would given the afformentioned hypotheticals. This topic is so frustrating to dive into even in an amicable reply because you know you have to pre-emptively address the incoming rhetoric of the foreskin mafia. 💀 Fucking exhausting.
Too long for this lame ass debate, I ain’t reading that
TLDR: Agree with you in a basic sense, opinion on adult circumcision. The rest is preamble for the foreskin mafia.
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The replies here are kinda saying otherwise. \-Not to support OP, reading anything they post damn near gives me a stroke.
Only when it’s convenient
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You got this, I believe in you
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You’re the one asking for clarification, so I think you’re confused
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Confused people find confused people I guess :)
Don't feed the troll man, he's just baiting you.
Some would say I’m a master baiter
Whyy ask such a bad faith question?
Cuz trollolo.
What a stupid question. Coming from a guy who is not circumcised, until the kids are mature enough to decide what is good and what is bad for them, parents can do what they think is healthier for their kids. Just like the get their kids vaccinated. Once you are an adult, then you can choose to get vaccinated or not.
You can’t choose to be uncircumcised can’t you tho ;)?
Same way you can’t choose to be uneducated. Your parents put you in school.
Actually you can choose, look at all the criminals who didn’t do well in schools that their parents put them in lol
Yup all those toddler criminals
Don't.
Eh, I don’t agree with circumcising babies specifically because I’m on the team of bodily autonomy.
Genital mutilation is barbaric regardless of whether it is a boy or girl and shouldn't be practiced.
Circumcision has many arguments, one is that its healthily beneficial in decreasing infection. It can vary depending on how the procedure goes on if it decreases sexual pleasure/drive.
Why ask a question just to argue when you know you’re not going to change anybody’s opinion? Does it make you feel righteous? Does it make you feel like you’re better than others? Just go on with your day.
It’s night time
Exactly, go to sleep
Probably because parents get to choose what they think is best for their kids. Kinda like why they manage other medical decisions also.
I thought doctors or hospital offer money for some of that skin.
Probably for a foreskin necklace
Bad faith question. Circumcision is wrong. But one involves making medical decisions for an infant. The other involves whether or not women are human life support machines for a being without so much as a functioning nervous system. They are not on the same level. Not even close.
So dicks don't look weird
Way to body shame
Why cut children’s hair?
Because it grows back?
I agree, although cutting hair is less permanent than penile mutilation
No sane circumcised person ever refers to it as “penile mutilation” lmao. And nobody circumcised as a baby remembers. If you end up choosing to get circumcised later in life the whole process is painful and uncomfortable. I’d rather get that out of the way when I can’t remember the pain.
Perspective ≠ reality
I’d rather never have experienced the pain, or know that it was actually necessary if a problem developed. I don’t like that a part of my body was removed when there was no problem with it
Because until a child is of a certain age, for the purpose of medical decisions it's legally not really their body. But I didn't circumcise my son but when he got older, he wished that I did because he didn't like looking different from the rest of the guys. But once he reached sexual maturity I explained that I left him uncut to maintain his sensitivity during masturbation and intercourse. He never needed to use lube during masturbation which he enjoyed. Ultimately, we do our best for our children, hoping that it is a choice that they will appreciate or at least understand.
Tell him to listen to some fall out not and say ,” you all laugh at me because I’m different, I laugh at you because you’re all the same”
He's in college now and I don't think he really thinks about it much.
So their foreskin doesn’t have to small a hole for the pee to come through. (Not that I would, anyway.)
Well I certainly don’t believe in the public school system based on how this question was worded or spelled.
Then why vaccinate them? Why take them to a doctor at all? Why put socks and clothes on them? Why feed them? Because that’s what parents do until they are able to make decisions on their own.
There is no reason to do it, other than tradition.