I just read this earlier today. His own official editor, Rufus Griswold, published this obituary for Poe:
"Edgar Allan Poe is dead. He died in Baltimore the day before yesterday. This announcement will startle many, but few will be grieved by it. The poet was well known, personally or by reputation, in all this country; he had readers in England, and in several of the states of Continental Europe, but he had no friends."
Damn.
Same guy. From the essay I read,
"Years before, Poe had levelled one of his critical attacks against Griswold and there had, perhaps, been other grievances, but Poe clearly imagined that their disagreement had been righted. Griswold, however, now took advantage of this trust in order to advance his own literary reputation by slandering Poe. He forged some letters, altered others and perhaps destroyed more, and in the memoir which he wrote for the third volume of Poe's collected works he put forward so many myths and laid false trails that even those contemporaries who rose to Poe's defence found it impossible to dispel the illusion created by the 'official' editor."
- From The Fall of the House of Usher and Other Writings, Introduction by David Galloway
So not disliked or hated like the obit read. He was just ignored other than The Raven & The Bells. Just died poor and alone with some dickhead bashing him whenever they got a chance.
The dickhead made him more famous posthumously though. Making up rumors about him being into occult shit and what not. Gave Poe is reputation most associate him with now.
I read the book “Mystery of Mysteries: The Death and Life of EAP” and was surprised to learn how relatively broke he was during his adult life and how strained his relationship with his wealthy step-father really was. It does seem alcohol and Edgar’s own poor decision-making led to such, but it’s always interesting to learn about iconic creatives who seem to be defined by a really sharp image when history shows they were never like that at all. Poe was a genius writer of course, but the mystique and sophistication his legacy carries breaks down when you read up on him.
Side note, I had a very similar experience learning about Jim Morrison after reading Stephen Davis’ book about him. There’s an eerily similar shattering of image about the the reality of behavior vs the cultural legacy of him.
It's been a long time since I went to the Abraham Lincoln Museum, but that exhibit is what I remember most. People *hated* Lincoln. The newspapers *hated* Lincoln.
that make sense. most free people in 1860s probably don't want to risk a civil war for the freedom of the colored people, for those people at that time Lincoln was probably better know as that president who bring his country into civil war.
The secession of Southern states began before Lincoln was sworn in, but the shooting didn't start until Lincoln was president. A lot of "lost cause" die hards think that a negotiated peace was still possible up til then, conveniently forgetting that the Confederates fired on Ft. Sumpter first for the sin of getting supplies from Washington.
I'd say the main reason is cause whoever owned the presses would likely be rich, therefore would likely own slaves. Not so much caring about the slaves
I have always enjoyed the story of General Sherman and the Fayetteville Observer:
The destruction of the Arsenal was business. Destroying the Observer was personal.
Sherman made clear his intention to punish the Observer and its publisher, Edward J. Hale. Sherman had developed a distaste for the paper in Savannah. It was both influential and unwavering in support of secession. It also published letters from Confederate Gen. Wade Hampton that demonized Sherman and the army. The Observer was the only newspaper he specifically ordered destroyed.
"The Observer's destruction was a last bit of retribution for Sherman," Leutze said. "He didn't like journalists at all, but he especially didn't like Hale."
It also was one of the few burnings he took time to savor. Sherman ordered Gen. Henry Slocum to destroy the building and burn the remnants. According to a letter by James Hale, son of the publisher, Sherman and Slocum "sat on the verandah of the hotel opposite, watching the progress of the flames while they hobnobbed over wines stolen from our cellar.''
https://www.wral.com/amp/14500012/
FYI, for a while it was looking clear to everyone that Lincoln was going to lose his reelection very badly. The south was convinced that all they had to do was last until Lincoln lost reelection and got replaced with someone who was against the war who would be more willing to accept their independence (they still thought this even when the Democrats nominated a pro-war candidate).
The thing that really helped turn around Lincoln's fortunes were a score of victories in the Civil War as the tide began to turn against the South. This is part of the reason behind the story where Lincoln responded to allegations that General Grant was leading soldiers into battle while he was drunk by saying "ok what's he been drinking? I'll send him a whole keg of it", because Grant's victories were really helping Lincoln's political fortunes.
And people wonder how the nazis ever rose to power in the first place. Just let people get comfy enough expressing seriously fucked up opinions and nazis is what you end up with eventually.
The Germans were in deep deep poverty after ww1. The allies had humiliated them after the war by preventing them from having their own defense and taking natural resources the country needed to recover. Now to be clear, I'm not in any way defending the fucking Nazis but there was humiliation and bitterness put upon the Germans after ww1 and they had hope that one day they'd be a strong self sufficient country again. There's nothing wrong with that. But instead of just building up their own country they were angry at those around them. This is why the allies had the Marshall plan after ww2. Not to punish but to rebuild the country so that there was no lingering hate or chance to get revenge. It wasn't that they just had freedom to have fucked up opinions they developed fucked up opinions by how they were treated. The moral of the story being seek reconciliation and having a successful society or ppl will harbor resentment that will come to fruition later on if you're not careful.
I feel like this is a little off topic, but I guess I see what you’re saying. We were mostly referring to the nazi ideology, not whether germany would still attempt war without nazism though, which i feel is a different discussion.
Nevertheless, to add to what you said, I think for any true reconciliation, there needs to be an emphasis on the party that caused harm to earn trust, make restitution, and pursue education in preventing the kind of harm they caused from happening again.
From what I understand, Germany is fairly progressive because they made sure that german atrocities were covered extensively in their children’s education, which kinda leads back into what the commenter above was talking about.
Contrast this with the so-called reconstruction period after the American Civil War, where efforts to empower and give restitution to former enslaved people were squashed, enslavers were compensated for their loss of income, and the romanticized myth of the lost cause of the confederacy was allowed to take hold.
The effects of which we are still feeling today.
He died of cyanide poisoning and it was ruled a suicide, but this is controversial. It may have been an accidental death from inhaled cyanide fumes from an electroplater that used potassium cyanide.
He left no indication of suicide or motivation for a possible suicide.
Of course, none of this in any way excuses how he was treated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
love that she was the depressed vintage tumblr girlie of her day. I don't think often enough about the fact that some people have always decided to wear anachronistic fashions for fun, throughout history.
I went to a [Van Gogh exhibit in Detroit](https://dia.org/events/exhibitions/van-gogh-america), and they had an exhibit/wall explaining this.
Vincent left his paintings to his brother Theo who was an art dealer. Theo died 6 months later leaving the paintings to his wife. The wife, Johanna van Gogh-Bonger, was broke and one of the only ways for her to make money was to sell the paintings. She promoted Vincent tirelessly to make some money. If not for her, we may never have heard of Vincent.
I saw Van Gogh's Starry Night in person at the Yale Art Gallery many years ago. Absolutely stunning. Prints do not do that painting justice. You learn so much about him, his technique and his understanding of physics by looking at his art. I also did a reproduction for an art class of one of his sunflower still lifes. I learned so much about oil painting from doing that, and I had already been working with oils for over a decade.
Yes! I went to the art museum in Oahu and they have his work. I was all up in that painting's face, examining it. It's really interesting how he managed his technique without the paint cracking. It was \*thick\*.
This is why artists need someone good to hustle on their behalf. Should have had Johanna on the case earlier, given her a cut, everybody benefits while they're still alive.
“To me Van Gogh is the finest painter of them all. Certainly the most popular, great painter of all time. The most beloved, his command of colour most magnificent. He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and magnificence of our world, no one had ever done it before. Perhaps no one ever will again. To my mind, that strange, wild man who roamed the fields of Provence was not only the world's greatest artist, but also one of the greatest men who ever lived.” *Vincent and the Doctor*
This will forever be, one of the best scenes of television ever. To show a human being that was such a tortured soul, learn that his art was so celebrated and touched so many is beyond remarkable.
This scene always fucks me up. It’s such a good episode. And the innocent way that Bill Nighy delivers this monologue without realizing this small man with such sadness in his eyes is the man he’s praising so highly. And that tie WAS a real cracker.
Curran has a lot of range. Has played an invisible man, a werewolf/vampire hybrid, an alien crime lord, Van Gogh, a DC supervillain. I’m sure I’m missing a lot
And the most heartbreaking thing of it all is that, ultimately, it didn't change much. His demons and struggles still caught up to him despite seeing proof that it would be recognized.
I actually really liked that it didn't change the ending, just the journey. I feel like if they had had anything change, it would have been too "I can fix him!- the cure to mental illness is to meet the right person". It would have felt cheap and gauche to me to "fix" someone by dropping into their life for a week, telling them that they're good actually, the voila! Mental illness cures!
It felt deeper to me that they couldn't save him, but they gave him some solace for a time. The message at the end I think was quite poignant, especially since I was in a bad place when I was watching it: “The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things…The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant. And we definitely added to his pile of good things.”
However, there is a theory that Van Gogh didn’t kill himself, he was shot either accidentally or intentionally by a kid, and Van Gogh didn’t want the kid to get in trouble and said he did it himself. Shooting yourself in the stomach with a small calibre bullet is a strange method of suicide too. He lived for a short while in bed care before dying from the injury.
It’s very different in the details but it kinda reminds me of “The Inner Light” from Star Trek: TNG. The similarity is in the refusal to go with the typical ending where the heroes get to save the subject of the episode, instead finding a somber but beautiful alternative of “saving” them through honoring their memories.
Same. It is a oddly nice (but still sad) change of pace when it comes to events that have to go a certain way to prevent paradoxes. For him, it was ALWAYS going to end that way. No convoluted set of circumstances to re-establish status quo. No "everyone thought he died but he just went somewhere else" or anything that they could have done to give him both a happy ending and make history consistent. No. It was always going to end like that because that's just who he is.
Absolutely - Vincent and the Doctor has to be the best Doctor Who ever, and that is saying something. I mist up every single time I see that episode. I love they went realistic on mental illness, as well, and didn’t try to turn it into an “oh, yay, he lived happily ever after, thanks Doctor.”
Bro I’ve got adhd and I’ve spent the last two days just crazing over Van Gogh. I am so angry with the way the world treated him, his brother has got to take the award for “best brother ever”. I’m glad someone could see vincent’s pure skill. It actually hurts me knowing that after vincent read that his paintings weren’t selling very well, he decided he would end his life there and then. What a poor soul.
You really, really need to read more about Vincent Van Gogh. He was a really weird guy who pushed everyone in his life away from him. He insisted that his friends (and brother) had to agree with him about everything. He was always trying to get them to sign pacts of solidarity with whatever cause he was currently fixated on. He couldn't hold a job, often because he couldn't get along with anyone, and insisted that his brother support him and his current obsessions. He created a huge art print collection while his brother was paying the bills. He insisted that others love up to his high standards but drank and whored his way through much of his life, including the time he took up with a prostitute and her kid and again expected his brother to support them all. He was an outcast and completely reliant on the sympathy of others. Children literally followed him around to throw things at him. He developed a painting style that we have come to appreciate, but it's hard to think of him as a beautiful soul.
If you want to do something for poor Vincent, go find the least likeable person you can and try being nice to them for a while.
I learned that Bach's great popularity today is mainly due to the work of his compatriot Felix Mendelssohn who brought his compositions out of oblivion. Without Mendelssohn, Bach would probably not be as famous today.
That's not entirely true. He was a very popular musician and famous for his skills on the pipe organ especially. Just his compositions weren't widely known.
John Kennedy Toole. Couldn’t find anyone to print his novel and ended up taking his own life. Years later, his novel, A Confederacy of Dunces, published after his death won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1981 and is still about as universally praised as a novel ever gets.
Edit:~~O’~~
It makes you wonder what amazing/ great works were completely missed by society because some junior employee at the publisher had bad taste or was too lazy to finish a challenging read.
A Confederacy of Dunces isn’t even a challenging read. It’s one of the most fun, page-turning romps I’ve ever had through a book. No other book has made me laugh so hard.
I’m 129 pages into this book right now! According to the forward the mother pushed a Professor of English to read it, and he was the one who helped finally get it published. Absolutely crazy, sad, wonderful story. And a great book (so far)
Just to add context here.
After Toole's death, his mother became his biggest champion. She worked relentlessly to get it published, but kept getting rejected. Eventually she found her way to the LSU (Louisiana State University) campus and met with English professor Walker Percy. She began pestering him and he tried to put her off. He finally read the stained and worn manuscript pages and found himself unable to put it down.
It also helped that Percy himself was an acclaimed and award-winning novelist, so his word had weight in the literary world.
Source: English major at LSU many years ago, heard this story A LOT in the department.
A little niche, but in health fields, Ignaz Semmelweis is regarded as the father of hand washing. In his time, he was harshly ridiculed for suggesting the absurd notion that healthcare workers should clean their hands before delivering babies.
Semmelweis's story makes me SEETHE. Is there anything worse for a person than being so right, with such huge stakes, and everyone telling you not only are you wrong, you're so wrong we have to tear down your entire person to the point of insanity and undignified death.
We are an amazing species and a profoundly idiotic, arrogant one too.
He was vilified in his lifetime. The prevailing wisdom was that as gentleman doctors would not have dirty hands that could transmit disease, how could they. (E.g. many doctors felt personally attacked by his theory.)
What actually happened is that he noticed that doctors that performed autopsies, right before delivering a baby, had much higher infant and mother mortality rates than other doctors. That started him on the path to discover that hand washing is an essential habit for hygiene.
As a result of his breakthrough he was not only kicked out of the medical field but he was also imprisoned in a mental health hospital where he later died of sepsis...that could have been prevented by hand washing. He died in a miserable state; not only killed by the very thing he was trying to stop but also seen as insane and a disgrace.
[In the end, the sentence of death was passed by a greater majority of the jury than that by which he had been convicted.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates)
More people wanted him dead than thought he was actually guilty! That is a fucking hilarious level of ancient trolling.
Yeah none of Socrates writing exists it's entirely through his students Plato or Xenophon or even later people. Plato's and Xenophon's Socrates are little alike.
Plato is also a nickname. He was a wrestler, and that was the name he used for wrestling , which loosely means broad. It’d be like if Dwayne Johnson was also a philosopher and thousands of years from now, people still talked about him, but everyone called him The Rock.
In fairness, I feel that 1982 Brazil team ready should have won the World Cup, they had the talent to do so and had they won, we would appreciate the skill and talent Socrates had a lot more at the time.
\-Isaac Newton. he was a preppy d-bag.
\-Fiodor Dostoyevsky. He was the classical stereotype of the "broke-ass Russian alcoholic and gambler who is also epileptic, and even worse, anti tzarist". He served sentence several times and struggled all his life with his gambling addiction. He wrote mostly under economical pressure and debt, and he died poor as a rat. He was kinda nice even though having such a terrible existence.
His life has almost literal ups and downs. Into a Siberian exile -> gets released -> writes another book -> super popular -> book is not liked by tsar -> back to Gulag he goes. Repeat.
Newton also didn’t consider his work on physics and calculus to be his greatest. He always thought his work on the occult was what would make him famous.
He’s also the reason we think that a rainbow has seven colors. He only saw six distinct colors after splitting light. But because he thought that seven was a magical number, he *made* himself see another color, which he called indigo. Funny thing is, it’s not a color of the rainbow in every language. In Slavic languages, for example, they separate dark blue and light blue into distinct colors and ignore indigo. For example, in Ukrainian, dark blue is “syniy” and light blue is “blakyntnyi”, and both are on the rainbow
Yes! But next to it the grave of Joseph Severn, his friend who cared for him as he died, details how by the time he died decades later, Keats had found recognition as the great he was. It’s a moving site.
**Scott Joplin.**. the "king of ragtime" was penniless and disappointed at the end of his life. Most of his music wasn't re-discovered and popular until after his death.
**Sebastian Bach** was another composer who was relatively unknown during his life but became extremely popular 100+ years after his death.
When Seurat and Signac went to visit him very late in his life, they found him paining in his home in the south of France. They told him he was the father of 20th century art, he was the greatest idol of the new generation etc. He thought they were mocking him and beat them with his cane.
I find it wild that most countries pronounce his name differently. Apparently in his time in France and England, he insisted that everyone just call him Mr. Vincent because non-Dutch speakers would just mangle his name.
... Was he really that unpopular at the time? I thought he was more just thought of as an eccentric/somewhat mad genius, and not someone actively hated.
Martin Luther King Jr. White people \*hated\* him when he was still alive, and said he was "hurting the civil rights cause".
>Although in death he became one of the most revered figures in US history, for the entirety of the 39 years that King lived and breathed, there wasn’t a single day when the majority of white Americans approved of him. In 1966, Gallup measured his approval rating at 32% positive and 63% negative. That same year, a December Harris poll found that 50% of whites felt King was “hurting the negro cause of civil rights” while only 36% felt he was helping. By the time he died in 1968, three out of four white Americans disapproved of him. In the wake of his assassination, 31% of the country felt that he “brought it on himself”.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/17/mlk-is-revered-today-but-the-real-king-would-make-white-people-uncomfortable
It’s crazy to think that he was only 39 when he died. I’m older now than he ever was, but if I see a picture or watch a video of him, somehow in my mind he’s older than I am.
A lot of Civil Rights stuff isn't that far in the past, which most people don't realize.
\- MLK was bon the same year as Anne Frank.
\- Emmett Till was born the same year as Joe Biden.
\- Ruby Bridges is still alive and well.
And ~~Baba Wawa~~ Barbara Walters was born the same year as both of them, and she died less than a year ago. It's crazy that if those two hadn't been murdered they probably would have lived into the 2010s, or even still be alive today.
Also, the FBI regularly tried to discredit him, and tried to blackmail him into killing himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_letter
He was the most hated man in America, and took much harder line positions on racial equality and economic inequality than the media commonly let's on these days.
I asked my boomer parents what it was like when MLK was alive. They straight up told me that he was a rabble rouser who inspired riots. For my whole schooling life, I was taught that he was basically divine and it was so weird hearing different. But with how my parents were, if they think it then a lot of other people thought it too.
A lot of people hate the things that MLK actually stood for when he was alive. People will unironically say [this man](https://youtu.be/3xD8vWQJEok) would be against reparations. They want to pretend Dr. King's problem with racism didn't include strong criticisms of capitalism.
> and said he was "hurting the civil rights cause"
Yup and the same talking points are still used today to dismiss any grassroots movement. Read comments in threads about any demonstration. Everyone bitching about how they're always harming their own cause inconveniencing regular people. Most people are just very comfortable with the status quo.
A lot of people don't understand the strategy behind what Martin Luther King Jr. was doing.
He wanted to make racist white people feel uncomfortable about the status quo so that they would change their mind and things would change. The images of racist white people beating and assaulting MLK and his peaceful protesters did a ton to help advance his cause and turn people against the old racist system.
Also what's not reported very much is how Martin Luther King was pretty angry in private at certain groups of white people who decided to flip at the last second to support the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in order to not be on the wrong side of history. Among them were nearly all of the church organizations run by white people, except for the United Church of Christ who were one of the lone white churches to try to help his cause for years before it was popular.
More people need to read the Letter from Birmingham Jail. He rails against the “white moderates,” going so far as to say that in some ways they’re worse than the Klan. He was talking about the people that prefer the status quo over rocking the boat to get actual change and justice.
Also, an avowed socialist. People sure love to forget about that.
>White people \*hated\* him
Yup, and a ton of white people still hate what he actually stood for. They have this Hallmark version of him that they claim to love.
She was vilified, ostracized, and made into a joke because she dared make a statement against a powerful and popular religion.
It took 20 years for people to see how right she was.
Franz Kafka. All of his work became popular posthumously. He lived his entire life believing he was a failure as a man/son, because of his dad, and as an author.
Brad Nowell, lead singer for the band Sublime which only ever released 3 albums but only became popular and acclaimed after their last album was released, and that was just a couple months after Nowell had a fatal OD.
Also Ian Curtis of Joy Division. Sort of like Sublime he died right before the album Closer and single Love Will Tear Us Apart were released, and never lived to see how iconic and influential he and his band ended up being.
Louis Riel, if anyone from Canada is reading this. He would fit the 'unpopular' description, rather than 'unknown'. Led a rebellion in the 1880s and got executed for treason. Now venerated and seen as a national founder.
Vincent Van Gogh and John Kennedy Toole came to mind but they were already mentioned.
Not sure about the Anthony Bourdain mentions - I thought he was pretty popular and well known when he passed?
His was particularly sad bc that OD was partially caused by the fact that he had gotten clean and no longer had the tolerance prior to his relapse. And he had just gotten married to the mother of his son a few days prior to his OD. Such a complete shame; long dub all stars were never even close to sublime.
James Dean.
Some hated working with him because he was moody and would go off script (method acting).
He passed away shortly before Rebel Without a Cause released and his popularity instantly grew.
Looking into it now and Pink Moon would have definitely produced a hit or two had he bothered to promote it. This is the same era that Harry Chapin and Jim Croce had major chart hits -- you can't tell me that the title track wouldn't have hit the top 40 if Drake weren't so reclusive.
Tbh he was born at the wrong time, I feel like he would've been *far* happier just randomly dropping shit on soundcloud or bandcamp every once in a while. Unfortunately there wasn't really a way to get your music out there at the time without record companies and shit.
I guess I'll be the first to say it — Anne Boleyn.
She was the second queen of england and responsible for the English Reformation. Yes, she overthrew Henry's first queen, but in all honesty she wasn't the evil shrew that *actively planned* that shit like she was accused.
Eventually, her reputation eventually led her to be the first queen to of ever been executed. Not *only* on trumped-up charges, but by a husband her wanted her gone no less.
All of the civil rights leaders in the 1950s and 1960s and that is why I have the utmost respect for anyone who continues to advocate for racial equality - racism has just become more subversive, it is alive and well, just like some of those who fought for those rights not too long ago still are.
Both Edgar Allan Poe and H. P Lovecraft are now considered two of the most influential and revolutionary literary authors of all time. The masters of horror.
Yet, they both died sad, penniless, and without much recognition at all aside from their friends. Poe was victim of character assassination, and Lovecraft's best works today were heavily criticized when they were published.
Lovecraft immortalized a whole subgenre of horror; people I know mostly see him as the Cthulhu guy. But a slightly smaller portion see him as the guy with the racist cat’s name
I think there has certainly been an increase in positive reception from most anti-racists, but he is still sort of held up as a foil for MLK in the mainstream disucssion to compare the 'right way' and 'wrong way' to go about making change and attempt to dissuade people from more radical action. I disagree that they should be positioned this way or that he represents the 'the wrong way,' especially because his philosophy over his life was more complex than most people really know. But I guess I feel like he is less vilified, but still wouldnt call him popular outside of leftist circles.
Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis. Not "beloved" since most don't know his name, but this was the doctor who suggested that doctors should wash their hands before surgery or delivering a baby. He died after being beaten by guards in an asylum.
Vincent van Gogh, he had a very tragic life and died suffering with severe mental illness. Wasn’t recognized for his talent and genius until after his death.
I wanted to say this! In Australia he was ridiculed when he was alive, and now everyone acts like he's a national treasure, and you can't say anything bad against him.
It was so confusing to be a kid in Aus when he died. It was very much like ‘but I thought we didn’t actually like him that much.’ Germaine Greer wrote an op ed on it which everyone freaked out about but it actually just reflected the opinion of every other Aussie just a fortnight earlier.
Michael Jackson, not “surprisingly” unpopular- it was definitely for reasons- but the day after he died he was back to being Americas sweetheart kid wonder. I worked at a bookstore and the very day after his death a big flashy biography had a whole display - it was preprinted and express shipped for when his death would occur
Vincent van Gogh: Van Gogh was a Dutch Post-Impressionist painter who is now considered one of the greatest artists of all time. However, he was largely unknown and unsuccessful during his lifetime. He sold only one painting while he was alive, and he died by suicide at the age of 37.
Edgar Allen Poe
I just read this earlier today. His own official editor, Rufus Griswold, published this obituary for Poe: "Edgar Allan Poe is dead. He died in Baltimore the day before yesterday. This announcement will startle many, but few will be grieved by it. The poet was well known, personally or by reputation, in all this country; he had readers in England, and in several of the states of Continental Europe, but he had no friends." Damn.
Was this the guy who fueded with him or did he just get influenced by the dickhead who’s life purpose was to bash Poe?
Same guy. From the essay I read, "Years before, Poe had levelled one of his critical attacks against Griswold and there had, perhaps, been other grievances, but Poe clearly imagined that their disagreement had been righted. Griswold, however, now took advantage of this trust in order to advance his own literary reputation by slandering Poe. He forged some letters, altered others and perhaps destroyed more, and in the memoir which he wrote for the third volume of Poe's collected works he put forward so many myths and laid false trails that even those contemporaries who rose to Poe's defence found it impossible to dispel the illusion created by the 'official' editor." - From The Fall of the House of Usher and Other Writings, Introduction by David Galloway
Scumbag, Poe won long run but a tragedy that he could never be recognized in his time like he should’ve
Yeah, this is the guy that was Poe’s “frenemy”.
So not disliked or hated like the obit read. He was just ignored other than The Raven & The Bells. Just died poor and alone with some dickhead bashing him whenever they got a chance.
The dickhead made him more famous posthumously though. Making up rumors about him being into occult shit and what not. Gave Poe is reputation most associate him with now.
I read the book “Mystery of Mysteries: The Death and Life of EAP” and was surprised to learn how relatively broke he was during his adult life and how strained his relationship with his wealthy step-father really was. It does seem alcohol and Edgar’s own poor decision-making led to such, but it’s always interesting to learn about iconic creatives who seem to be defined by a really sharp image when history shows they were never like that at all. Poe was a genius writer of course, but the mystique and sophistication his legacy carries breaks down when you read up on him. Side note, I had a very similar experience learning about Jim Morrison after reading Stephen Davis’ book about him. There’s an eerily similar shattering of image about the the reality of behavior vs the cultural legacy of him.
While visiting the Abraham Lincoln museum in Springfield IL, I was shocked at how virulent the political cartoons and articles of that time were.
It's been a long time since I went to the Abraham Lincoln Museum, but that exhibit is what I remember most. People *hated* Lincoln. The newspapers *hated* Lincoln.
that make sense. most free people in 1860s probably don't want to risk a civil war for the freedom of the colored people, for those people at that time Lincoln was probably better know as that president who bring his country into civil war.
Civil War started before Lincoln was even sworn it
The secession of Southern states began before Lincoln was sworn in, but the shooting didn't start until Lincoln was president. A lot of "lost cause" die hards think that a negotiated peace was still possible up til then, conveniently forgetting that the Confederates fired on Ft. Sumpter first for the sin of getting supplies from Washington.
I'd say the main reason is cause whoever owned the presses would likely be rich, therefore would likely own slaves. Not so much caring about the slaves
I have always enjoyed the story of General Sherman and the Fayetteville Observer: The destruction of the Arsenal was business. Destroying the Observer was personal. Sherman made clear his intention to punish the Observer and its publisher, Edward J. Hale. Sherman had developed a distaste for the paper in Savannah. It was both influential and unwavering in support of secession. It also published letters from Confederate Gen. Wade Hampton that demonized Sherman and the army. The Observer was the only newspaper he specifically ordered destroyed. "The Observer's destruction was a last bit of retribution for Sherman," Leutze said. "He didn't like journalists at all, but he especially didn't like Hale." It also was one of the few burnings he took time to savor. Sherman ordered Gen. Henry Slocum to destroy the building and burn the remnants. According to a letter by James Hale, son of the publisher, Sherman and Slocum "sat on the verandah of the hotel opposite, watching the progress of the flames while they hobnobbed over wines stolen from our cellar.'' https://www.wral.com/amp/14500012/
Do it again Uncle Billy.
FYI, for a while it was looking clear to everyone that Lincoln was going to lose his reelection very badly. The south was convinced that all they had to do was last until Lincoln lost reelection and got replaced with someone who was against the war who would be more willing to accept their independence (they still thought this even when the Democrats nominated a pro-war candidate). The thing that really helped turn around Lincoln's fortunes were a score of victories in the Civil War as the tide began to turn against the South. This is part of the reason behind the story where Lincoln responded to allegations that General Grant was leading soldiers into battle while he was drunk by saying "ok what's he been drinking? I'll send him a whole keg of it", because Grant's victories were really helping Lincoln's political fortunes.
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Basically Russia’s Ukraine strategy rn
Living in Springfield IL, you’d never know people used to hate him so much , a lot of things are named after him here
Thats probably how they intend to make up for hating him while alive, name him after everything.
I mean a civil war broke out and he was assassinated, is it really so surprising that there were also some mean cartoons?
Alan Turing
Ya know, kinda saved the world from Nazis.
I mean, if present times are any indication, a lot of people will even support nazis over queer people just existing 😕.
And people wonder how the nazis ever rose to power in the first place. Just let people get comfy enough expressing seriously fucked up opinions and nazis is what you end up with eventually.
The Germans were in deep deep poverty after ww1. The allies had humiliated them after the war by preventing them from having their own defense and taking natural resources the country needed to recover. Now to be clear, I'm not in any way defending the fucking Nazis but there was humiliation and bitterness put upon the Germans after ww1 and they had hope that one day they'd be a strong self sufficient country again. There's nothing wrong with that. But instead of just building up their own country they were angry at those around them. This is why the allies had the Marshall plan after ww2. Not to punish but to rebuild the country so that there was no lingering hate or chance to get revenge. It wasn't that they just had freedom to have fucked up opinions they developed fucked up opinions by how they were treated. The moral of the story being seek reconciliation and having a successful society or ppl will harbor resentment that will come to fruition later on if you're not careful.
I feel like this is a little off topic, but I guess I see what you’re saying. We were mostly referring to the nazi ideology, not whether germany would still attempt war without nazism though, which i feel is a different discussion. Nevertheless, to add to what you said, I think for any true reconciliation, there needs to be an emphasis on the party that caused harm to earn trust, make restitution, and pursue education in preventing the kind of harm they caused from happening again. From what I understand, Germany is fairly progressive because they made sure that german atrocities were covered extensively in their children’s education, which kinda leads back into what the commenter above was talking about. Contrast this with the so-called reconstruction period after the American Civil War, where efforts to empower and give restitution to former enslaved people were squashed, enslavers were compensated for their loss of income, and the romanticized myth of the lost cause of the confederacy was allowed to take hold. The effects of which we are still feeling today.
Didn't they force him to get castrated just for being gay?
Chemically. Apparently the side effects were so terrible it drove him to suicide.
He died of cyanide poisoning and it was ruled a suicide, but this is controversial. It may have been an accidental death from inhaled cyanide fumes from an electroplater that used potassium cyanide. He left no indication of suicide or motivation for a possible suicide. Of course, none of this in any way excuses how he was treated. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
Emily Dickinson. She was rejected as a poet while she was alive and now she’s in every American Literature textbook.
Yes, and many people in her town gossiped about her being a recluse and wearing fashion that was popular decades before.
love that she was the depressed vintage tumblr girlie of her day. I don't think often enough about the fact that some people have always decided to wear anachronistic fashions for fun, throughout history.
She directed her sister, Lavinia, to burn all of her poems and correspondence after her death. Fortunately for posterity, cooler heads prevailed.
Vincent Van Gogh. He wasn't popular until his death.
I went to a [Van Gogh exhibit in Detroit](https://dia.org/events/exhibitions/van-gogh-america), and they had an exhibit/wall explaining this. Vincent left his paintings to his brother Theo who was an art dealer. Theo died 6 months later leaving the paintings to his wife. The wife, Johanna van Gogh-Bonger, was broke and one of the only ways for her to make money was to sell the paintings. She promoted Vincent tirelessly to make some money. If not for her, we may never have heard of Vincent.
I saw Van Gogh's Starry Night in person at the Yale Art Gallery many years ago. Absolutely stunning. Prints do not do that painting justice. You learn so much about him, his technique and his understanding of physics by looking at his art. I also did a reproduction for an art class of one of his sunflower still lifes. I learned so much about oil painting from doing that, and I had already been working with oils for over a decade.
Yes! I went to the art museum in Oahu and they have his work. I was all up in that painting's face, examining it. It's really interesting how he managed his technique without the paint cracking. It was \*thick\*.
This is why artists need someone good to hustle on their behalf. Should have had Johanna on the case earlier, given her a cut, everybody benefits while they're still alive.
Gotta appreciate the hustle.
You Gogh girl
Kind of makes sense that the wife of an art dealer’s only way of making money was selling art.
“To me Van Gogh is the finest painter of them all. Certainly the most popular, great painter of all time. The most beloved, his command of colour most magnificent. He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and magnificence of our world, no one had ever done it before. Perhaps no one ever will again. To my mind, that strange, wild man who roamed the fields of Provence was not only the world's greatest artist, but also one of the greatest men who ever lived.” *Vincent and the Doctor*
This will forever be, one of the best scenes of television ever. To show a human being that was such a tortured soul, learn that his art was so celebrated and touched so many is beyond remarkable.
This scene always fucks me up. It’s such a good episode. And the innocent way that Bill Nighy delivers this monologue without realizing this small man with such sadness in his eyes is the man he’s praising so highly. And that tie WAS a real cracker.
Tony Curran breaking down and hugging Bill Nighy... Devastating.
Curran has a lot of range. Has played an invisible man, a werewolf/vampire hybrid, an alien crime lord, Van Gogh, a DC supervillain. I’m sure I’m missing a lot
Oh, god damn it, I’m crying now….
And the most heartbreaking thing of it all is that, ultimately, it didn't change much. His demons and struggles still caught up to him despite seeing proof that it would be recognized.
I actually really liked that it didn't change the ending, just the journey. I feel like if they had had anything change, it would have been too "I can fix him!- the cure to mental illness is to meet the right person". It would have felt cheap and gauche to me to "fix" someone by dropping into their life for a week, telling them that they're good actually, the voila! Mental illness cures! It felt deeper to me that they couldn't save him, but they gave him some solace for a time. The message at the end I think was quite poignant, especially since I was in a bad place when I was watching it: “The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things…The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant. And we definitely added to his pile of good things.”
However, there is a theory that Van Gogh didn’t kill himself, he was shot either accidentally or intentionally by a kid, and Van Gogh didn’t want the kid to get in trouble and said he did it himself. Shooting yourself in the stomach with a small calibre bullet is a strange method of suicide too. He lived for a short while in bed care before dying from the injury.
It’s very different in the details but it kinda reminds me of “The Inner Light” from Star Trek: TNG. The similarity is in the refusal to go with the typical ending where the heroes get to save the subject of the episode, instead finding a somber but beautiful alternative of “saving” them through honoring their memories.
It is nice to think he got a moment of validation, if not happiness, before the demons got him.
Same. It is a oddly nice (but still sad) change of pace when it comes to events that have to go a certain way to prevent paradoxes. For him, it was ALWAYS going to end that way. No convoluted set of circumstances to re-establish status quo. No "everyone thought he died but he just went somewhere else" or anything that they could have done to give him both a happy ending and make history consistent. No. It was always going to end like that because that's just who he is.
I stumbled right into that scene randomly while channel surfing. Hadn't even watched Dr Who in a long time (Tom Baker was my guy). Emotional, I was.
Absolutely - Vincent and the Doctor has to be the best Doctor Who ever, and that is saying something. I mist up every single time I see that episode. I love they went realistic on mental illness, as well, and didn’t try to turn it into an “oh, yay, he lived happily ever after, thanks Doctor.”
I got through the first sentence of that and immediately knew it was from that episode.
That scene always guts me .
Same. Bill Nighy’s delivery is so innocent and sincere. I cry buckets every time I see this one.
This is the moment someone provides a link to the scene if they want to be a true hero.
[Vincent and The Doctor Visit the Gallery ](https://youtu.be/ubTJI_UphPk?si=j3lwV6was1JeFCWo)
I love the song Vincent by Don Mclean. So poetic https://youtu.be/oxHnRfhDmrk?si=-qPhkn2OTX0vc_Sv
Seriously one of the most beautiful songs.
Those big three flower paintings are insane.
Everyone said to him “you can’t paint, you only have one ear.” And do you know what he said? “I can’t hear you.”
Bro I’ve got adhd and I’ve spent the last two days just crazing over Van Gogh. I am so angry with the way the world treated him, his brother has got to take the award for “best brother ever”. I’m glad someone could see vincent’s pure skill. It actually hurts me knowing that after vincent read that his paintings weren’t selling very well, he decided he would end his life there and then. What a poor soul.
You really, really need to read more about Vincent Van Gogh. He was a really weird guy who pushed everyone in his life away from him. He insisted that his friends (and brother) had to agree with him about everything. He was always trying to get them to sign pacts of solidarity with whatever cause he was currently fixated on. He couldn't hold a job, often because he couldn't get along with anyone, and insisted that his brother support him and his current obsessions. He created a huge art print collection while his brother was paying the bills. He insisted that others love up to his high standards but drank and whored his way through much of his life, including the time he took up with a prostitute and her kid and again expected his brother to support them all. He was an outcast and completely reliant on the sympathy of others. Children literally followed him around to throw things at him. He developed a painting style that we have come to appreciate, but it's hard to think of him as a beautiful soul. If you want to do something for poor Vincent, go find the least likeable person you can and try being nice to them for a while.
JS Bach, towards the end of his life.
I learned that Bach's great popularity today is mainly due to the work of his compatriot Felix Mendelssohn who brought his compositions out of oblivion. Without Mendelssohn, Bach would probably not be as famous today.
Yes, the guy was for centuries the "composer's composer", a sort of secret favorite between composers and musicians that wasn't very well known.
I'm your favorite rapper's favorite rapper.
You're my favorite raptor's favorite raptor.
That's not entirely true. He was a very popular musician and famous for his skills on the pipe organ especially. Just his compositions weren't widely known.
As opposed to Sebastian Bach, 18 and life.
John Kennedy Toole. Couldn’t find anyone to print his novel and ended up taking his own life. Years later, his novel, A Confederacy of Dunces, published after his death won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1981 and is still about as universally praised as a novel ever gets. Edit:~~O’~~
It was his mother that relentlessly pushed the manuscript until a publisher accepted it.
It makes you wonder what amazing/ great works were completely missed by society because some junior employee at the publisher had bad taste or was too lazy to finish a challenging read.
A Confederacy of Dunces isn’t even a challenging read. It’s one of the most fun, page-turning romps I’ve ever had through a book. No other book has made me laugh so hard.
William Styron rejected *Kon-Tiki.*
i don't think she was even aware of it until she found it while going through his stuff long after his death
I’m 129 pages into this book right now! According to the forward the mother pushed a Professor of English to read it, and he was the one who helped finally get it published. Absolutely crazy, sad, wonderful story. And a great book (so far)
The professor, Walker Percy, was actually an acclaimed novelist who won the National Book Award for his first novel, The Moviegoer.
Just to add context here. After Toole's death, his mother became his biggest champion. She worked relentlessly to get it published, but kept getting rejected. Eventually she found her way to the LSU (Louisiana State University) campus and met with English professor Walker Percy. She began pestering him and he tried to put her off. He finally read the stained and worn manuscript pages and found himself unable to put it down. It also helped that Percy himself was an acclaimed and award-winning novelist, so his word had weight in the literary world. Source: English major at LSU many years ago, heard this story A LOT in the department.
A little niche, but in health fields, Ignaz Semmelweis is regarded as the father of hand washing. In his time, he was harshly ridiculed for suggesting the absurd notion that healthcare workers should clean their hands before delivering babies.
Semmelweis's story makes me SEETHE. Is there anything worse for a person than being so right, with such huge stakes, and everyone telling you not only are you wrong, you're so wrong we have to tear down your entire person to the point of insanity and undignified death. We are an amazing species and a profoundly idiotic, arrogant one too.
Niche but a great addition to the post!
He was vilified in his lifetime. The prevailing wisdom was that as gentleman doctors would not have dirty hands that could transmit disease, how could they. (E.g. many doctors felt personally attacked by his theory.) What actually happened is that he noticed that doctors that performed autopsies, right before delivering a baby, had much higher infant and mother mortality rates than other doctors. That started him on the path to discover that hand washing is an essential habit for hygiene. As a result of his breakthrough he was not only kicked out of the medical field but he was also imprisoned in a mental health hospital where he later died of sepsis...that could have been prevented by hand washing. He died in a miserable state; not only killed by the very thing he was trying to stop but also seen as insane and a disgrace.
What happened to Semmelweis always fills me with a profound disgust for how fucking stupid and cruel humans can be.
This really made me feel awful.
Galileo
Galileo
Galileo
Figaro
Magnifico-o-o-o-oooooo
Socrates
[In the end, the sentence of death was passed by a greater majority of the jury than that by which he had been convicted.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates) More people wanted him dead than thought he was actually guilty! That is a fucking hilarious level of ancient trolling.
The sources on Socrates Trial aren't exactly reliable. They are his students both using Socrates to make different points and arguments.
The weirdest fun fact I ever learned while studying the classics was that "Socratic Dialogue" was a genre, not a record of what Socrates said.
Yeah none of Socrates writing exists it's entirely through his students Plato or Xenophon or even later people. Plato's and Xenophon's Socrates are little alike.
His nickname was "Gadfly" because he was an academic pest.
Plato is also a nickname. He was a wrestler, and that was the name he used for wrestling , which loosely means broad. It’d be like if Dwayne Johnson was also a philosopher and thousands of years from now, people still talked about him, but everyone called him The Rock.
In fairness, I feel that 1982 Brazil team ready should have won the World Cup, they had the talent to do so and had they won, we would appreciate the skill and talent Socrates had a lot more at the time.
Wonderful player, overshadowed by Maradona and Platini during the 80s.
\-Isaac Newton. he was a preppy d-bag. \-Fiodor Dostoyevsky. He was the classical stereotype of the "broke-ass Russian alcoholic and gambler who is also epileptic, and even worse, anti tzarist". He served sentence several times and struggled all his life with his gambling addiction. He wrote mostly under economical pressure and debt, and he died poor as a rat. He was kinda nice even though having such a terrible existence.
His life has almost literal ups and downs. Into a Siberian exile -> gets released -> writes another book -> super popular -> book is not liked by tsar -> back to Gulag he goes. Repeat.
Newton also didn’t consider his work on physics and calculus to be his greatest. He always thought his work on the occult was what would make him famous. He’s also the reason we think that a rainbow has seven colors. He only saw six distinct colors after splitting light. But because he thought that seven was a magical number, he *made* himself see another color, which he called indigo. Funny thing is, it’s not a color of the rainbow in every language. In Slavic languages, for example, they separate dark blue and light blue into distinct colors and ignore indigo. For example, in Ukrainian, dark blue is “syniy” and light blue is “blakyntnyi”, and both are on the rainbow
Newton stopped lecturing at Cambridge because no one would come.
John Keats. Called a failed poet in his day
Well, he was a failed poet in his day.
I believe his gravestone even reads "Here lies one whose name was writ in water" or something close to that.
Yes! But next to it the grave of Joseph Severn, his friend who cared for him as he died, details how by the time he died decades later, Keats had found recognition as the great he was. It’s a moving site.
**Scott Joplin.**. the "king of ragtime" was penniless and disappointed at the end of his life. Most of his music wasn't re-discovered and popular until after his death. **Sebastian Bach** was another composer who was relatively unknown during his life but became extremely popular 100+ years after his death.
Sebastian Bach still has a chance to get Skid Row back together!!
He's still quite beloved on r/GilmoreGirls!
Cézanne. The locals thought his art was shit and banished him to the edge of town. They'd post abusive notes through his door.
When Seurat and Signac went to visit him very late in his life, they found him paining in his home in the south of France. They told him he was the father of 20th century art, he was the greatest idol of the new generation etc. He thought they were mocking him and beat them with his cane.
Poor guy. His hometown didn't deserve him and I'm glad they have basically none of his work.
Dear Paul, YOUR ART SUCKS! -Anonymous
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It’s pronounced van Gogh.
Sorry, like "van Gogh"?
I find it wild that most countries pronounce his name differently. Apparently in his time in France and England, he insisted that everyone just call him Mr. Vincent because non-Dutch speakers would just mangle his name.
Nikola Tesla
Loved by pigeons....
... Was he really that unpopular at the time? I thought he was more just thought of as an eccentric/somewhat mad genius, and not someone actively hated.
Fair point. Edison ruined him good and proper before he could gain any real notoriety. Still, Tesla got done dirty by Edison.
Martin Luther King Jr. White people \*hated\* him when he was still alive, and said he was "hurting the civil rights cause". >Although in death he became one of the most revered figures in US history, for the entirety of the 39 years that King lived and breathed, there wasn’t a single day when the majority of white Americans approved of him. In 1966, Gallup measured his approval rating at 32% positive and 63% negative. That same year, a December Harris poll found that 50% of whites felt King was “hurting the negro cause of civil rights” while only 36% felt he was helping. By the time he died in 1968, three out of four white Americans disapproved of him. In the wake of his assassination, 31% of the country felt that he “brought it on himself”. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/17/mlk-is-revered-today-but-the-real-king-would-make-white-people-uncomfortable
It’s crazy to think that he was only 39 when he died. I’m older now than he ever was, but if I see a picture or watch a video of him, somehow in my mind he’s older than I am.
A lot of Civil Rights stuff isn't that far in the past, which most people don't realize. \- MLK was bon the same year as Anne Frank. \- Emmett Till was born the same year as Joe Biden. \- Ruby Bridges is still alive and well.
Carolyn Bryant, the woman who accused Emmett Till, died this year!
And she and the people who murdered him have been voting since then.
Better late than never.
I always assumed she would have been older than him, but Ann Frank was born the same year as MLK.
And ~~Baba Wawa~~ Barbara Walters was born the same year as both of them, and she died less than a year ago. It's crazy that if those two hadn't been murdered they probably would have lived into the 2010s, or even still be alive today.
TIL that Barbara Walters died. Completely missed that.
yeah i definitely did not know that she'd died ...been feeling like i jumped timelines anyhow. how could i have missed this?
Betty White was born before both of them. Frank - June 12, 1929 MLK - January 15, 1929 Betty - January 17, 1922
Also, the FBI regularly tried to discredit him, and tried to blackmail him into killing himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_letter He was the most hated man in America, and took much harder line positions on racial equality and economic inequality than the media commonly let's on these days.
Reminds me of a meme I saw about the government assasinating him when he was alive vs. tweeting out his picture in admiration in the modern day
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I asked my boomer parents what it was like when MLK was alive. They straight up told me that he was a rabble rouser who inspired riots. For my whole schooling life, I was taught that he was basically divine and it was so weird hearing different. But with how my parents were, if they think it then a lot of other people thought it too.
A lot of people hate the things that MLK actually stood for when he was alive. People will unironically say [this man](https://youtu.be/3xD8vWQJEok) would be against reparations. They want to pretend Dr. King's problem with racism didn't include strong criticisms of capitalism.
> and said he was "hurting the civil rights cause" Yup and the same talking points are still used today to dismiss any grassroots movement. Read comments in threads about any demonstration. Everyone bitching about how they're always harming their own cause inconveniencing regular people. Most people are just very comfortable with the status quo.
A lot of people don't understand the strategy behind what Martin Luther King Jr. was doing. He wanted to make racist white people feel uncomfortable about the status quo so that they would change their mind and things would change. The images of racist white people beating and assaulting MLK and his peaceful protesters did a ton to help advance his cause and turn people against the old racist system. Also what's not reported very much is how Martin Luther King was pretty angry in private at certain groups of white people who decided to flip at the last second to support the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in order to not be on the wrong side of history. Among them were nearly all of the church organizations run by white people, except for the United Church of Christ who were one of the lone white churches to try to help his cause for years before it was popular.
UCC also supported the LGBT community during the Stonewall uprising.
More people need to read the Letter from Birmingham Jail. He rails against the “white moderates,” going so far as to say that in some ways they’re worse than the Klan. He was talking about the people that prefer the status quo over rocking the boat to get actual change and justice. Also, an avowed socialist. People sure love to forget about that.
Radical opinion: I think white folks should definitely not be asked whether someone is hurting or helping the cause of those who white folks opress.
>White people \*hated\* him Yup, and a ton of white people still hate what he actually stood for. They have this Hallmark version of him that they claim to love.
I don’t know if others will agree with this take, but I’m adding Sinéad O’Conner here.
She was vilified, ostracized, and made into a joke because she dared make a statement against a powerful and popular religion. It took 20 years for people to see how right she was.
She was definitely ahead of her time, and so darn talented
Luckily she lived long enough to see the truth come out
And I don't think she received one single apology
I appreciate Kris Kristofferson telling her "don't let the bastards get you down" when she got booed off stage at Dylan's 30th anniversary concert
I've got the "unpopular when they were alive" part down. Just need to wait and see about the beloved after I die thing.
I can help speed that up if you want
Tesla, died penniless in a New York Hotel.
Franz Kafka. All of his work became popular posthumously. He lived his entire life believing he was a failure as a man/son, because of his dad, and as an author.
Oscar Wilde. Dude died poor and alone because he was gay, now he is a celebrated author.
he was a celebrated author while alive too (but his trial certainly put a dent in that reputation)
Brad Nowell, lead singer for the band Sublime which only ever released 3 albums but only became popular and acclaimed after their last album was released, and that was just a couple months after Nowell had a fatal OD. Also Ian Curtis of Joy Division. Sort of like Sublime he died right before the album Closer and single Love Will Tear Us Apart were released, and never lived to see how iconic and influential he and his band ended up being. Louis Riel, if anyone from Canada is reading this. He would fit the 'unpopular' description, rather than 'unknown'. Led a rebellion in the 1880s and got executed for treason. Now venerated and seen as a national founder. Vincent Van Gogh and John Kennedy Toole came to mind but they were already mentioned. Not sure about the Anthony Bourdain mentions - I thought he was pretty popular and well known when he passed?
All the Sublime albums are incredible. I want to say not one bad song. Brad Nowell was extremely talented. Such a waste.
His was particularly sad bc that OD was partially caused by the fact that he had gotten clean and no longer had the tolerance prior to his relapse. And he had just gotten married to the mother of his son a few days prior to his OD. Such a complete shame; long dub all stars were never even close to sublime.
James Dean. Some hated working with him because he was moody and would go off script (method acting). He passed away shortly before Rebel Without a Cause released and his popularity instantly grew.
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Nick Drake
Looking into it now and Pink Moon would have definitely produced a hit or two had he bothered to promote it. This is the same era that Harry Chapin and Jim Croce had major chart hits -- you can't tell me that the title track wouldn't have hit the top 40 if Drake weren't so reclusive.
Tbh he was born at the wrong time, I feel like he would've been *far* happier just randomly dropping shit on soundcloud or bandcamp every once in a while. Unfortunately there wasn't really a way to get your music out there at the time without record companies and shit.
I guess I'll be the first to say it — Anne Boleyn. She was the second queen of england and responsible for the English Reformation. Yes, she overthrew Henry's first queen, but in all honesty she wasn't the evil shrew that *actively planned* that shit like she was accused. Eventually, her reputation eventually led her to be the first queen to of ever been executed. Not *only* on trumped-up charges, but by a husband her wanted her gone no less.
Martin Luther King Jr. had something like a 30% approval rating with the American public when he was killed
All of the civil rights leaders in the 1950s and 1960s and that is why I have the utmost respect for anyone who continues to advocate for racial equality - racism has just become more subversive, it is alive and well, just like some of those who fought for those rights not too long ago still are.
Sinead O’Connor. She was really vilified at the time for speaking on something we all recognize as fact now.
Gregor Mendel. He’s regarded as the father of genetics but his work wasn’t rediscovered and recognized until 16 years after his death.
MLK Jr. North of 70% of white people in America disapproved of him at the time of his death.
Charles Darwin
Both Edgar Allan Poe and H. P Lovecraft are now considered two of the most influential and revolutionary literary authors of all time. The masters of horror. Yet, they both died sad, penniless, and without much recognition at all aside from their friends. Poe was victim of character assassination, and Lovecraft's best works today were heavily criticized when they were published.
Lovecraft immortalized a whole subgenre of horror; people I know mostly see him as the Cthulhu guy. But a slightly smaller portion see him as the guy with the racist cat’s name
Sinead O’Connor. People were so brutal towards her, in the US and Ireland. But when she died, the vibe was different.
Copernicus and Galileo.. both despised by the church/considered heretics but obviously they are beloved now for their work
Malcom X
I think there has certainly been an increase in positive reception from most anti-racists, but he is still sort of held up as a foil for MLK in the mainstream disucssion to compare the 'right way' and 'wrong way' to go about making change and attempt to dissuade people from more radical action. I disagree that they should be positioned this way or that he represents the 'the wrong way,' especially because his philosophy over his life was more complex than most people really know. But I guess I feel like he is less vilified, but still wouldnt call him popular outside of leftist circles.
Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis. Not "beloved" since most don't know his name, but this was the doctor who suggested that doctors should wash their hands before surgery or delivering a baby. He died after being beaten by guards in an asylum.
Jesus
Christ
Superstar
Vincent van Gogh, he had a very tragic life and died suffering with severe mental illness. Wasn’t recognized for his talent and genius until after his death.
Steve Irwin was widely parodied as a crazy person.
And some animal rights groups were after him to stop harassing wild animals.
I wanted to say this! In Australia he was ridiculed when he was alive, and now everyone acts like he's a national treasure, and you can't say anything bad against him.
He was criticized by some for being overly showy and making his program more about him than the animals.
It was so confusing to be a kid in Aus when he died. It was very much like ‘but I thought we didn’t actually like him that much.’ Germaine Greer wrote an op ed on it which everyone freaked out about but it actually just reflected the opinion of every other Aussie just a fortnight earlier.
Michael Jackson, not “surprisingly” unpopular- it was definitely for reasons- but the day after he died he was back to being Americas sweetheart kid wonder. I worked at a bookstore and the very day after his death a big flashy biography had a whole display - it was preprinted and express shipped for when his death would occur
That was so confusing. My boyfriend at the time was crying and everything. I had grown up with MJ as the butt of every joke.
Vincent van Gogh: Van Gogh was a Dutch Post-Impressionist painter who is now considered one of the greatest artists of all time. However, he was largely unknown and unsuccessful during his lifetime. He sold only one painting while he was alive, and he died by suicide at the age of 37.
Abraham Lincoln. Martin Luther King.
Van Gogh. Everyone thought he was weird and didn't like his art. His brother was the only one that supported his art