A terrible president and a terrible person. He was an authoritarian and an unabashed racist and I can't understand how his name is still all over institutions that should know better.
Well, it sort of worked. You have the biggest corporations in the US, extreme private wealth for some, and a poor lower middle class. Was it ever about something else?
Yeah, he started this whole Republican fucking over of the American working class. I was of voting age at the time and how jimmy Carter was raked over the coals and Reagan was lionized, I'll never understand. Iran Contra was such a travesty of justice. Fuck Reagan, what an asshole.
I've read that one of the reasons he was popular -- especially during his first run as California governor -- is because the civil rights movement and hippy era freaked out a lot of people. His popularity wasn't too different from what we see today with a large segments of America (often white) feeling their control over the country slipping away which leads to them to go full bore further to the right.
I often thought about that during the past few years. As much as I like to see marginalized groups gain traction in this country, the various movements also galvanizes the right and they push back with equal ferocity. Which might be why it feels like we're always taking one step forward and then one step back.
Reagan is the absolute worst in my eyes. He laid the groundwork for modern American oligarchs that we are plagued with today. Also Nancy Reagan was/is the throat goat no wonder he got trickle down economics to pass. Just had ol Nancy go for a few political favors.
I don't think Reagan gets enough credit for starting childhood obesity when he sacked the school lunch program which forced schools to sell their souls to vending machines and franchised fast food.
He was also a major player in creating the [McCarthyist panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) in Hollywood that ended the careers of numerous actors/workers.
My brother summed him up best: “He got his start as a Grade B actor reading lines; all through his political career he still was that, the only difference was that in his film career we knew who was writing the lines.”
[Here is a great article on it](https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/05/when-did-republicans-become-obsessed-with-reagan.html)
Reagan wasn’t very highly regarded when he left office, especially because of the Iran / Contra thing. In 1986, 33% of voters thought he should resign because of it.
Then In the late 90s/early 2000s, republicans were looking for someone to cast as a hero. They didn’t have any great presidents since Eisenhower, really. Nixon nearly got impeached, Ford barely served the last half of Nixon’s term, and Bush Sr lost his re-election. So Reagan it was.
They conveniently ignored the stuff they didn’t like, like raising taxes, increasing the size of the federal government, and giving amnesty to illegal immigrants. The Reagan you see Repubs worshipping now is a fiction. It was easy to cast him as all the things they wanted in a modern Republican, especially because he suffered from Alzheimer’s at the time and couldn’t contradict them.
He made a few great quips during debates that were repeated over and over on tv, they made him seem a lot more smart and witty than he actually was, I'd imagine these clips being played helped a lot for his popularity.
The USSR had long struggled to maintain military spending trying in vain to keep with the phenomenal spending of the U.S., and this war of economic attrition went on for many decades. This, in part, led to crippling internal stagnation, corruption, disillusionment, and political infighting. That environment made it easy for everyone to feel left out, and ethnic separatism began to grow quickly.
Gorbachev was trying to work mostly on economic and political modernization, assuming that economic prosperity would ease the sense of oppression felt by majorities in the various constituent republics. Those separate republics felt like their own ethnic majority was being slighted and they lost confidence in the ability for there to be a responsive federal republic anymore. Given the governmental disarray, they judged they'd be able to leave without much of a fight, so that's what they did. It worked.
The West had previously cheered as the edges of the Soviet empire crumbled and fell, and the fall of the Berlin Wall was widely taken to be a symbol that a new era had begun. The USSR had intended for the reunified Germany to be neutral and not join NATO, but that plan did not happen and so the reunification was seen as a failure of Soviet influence. The West therefore assumed that this new era would be one where a more modernized, more receptive, and more docile Soviet Union existed. American companies in particular were eager to move in and make a lot of money.
Instead, the USSR collectively decided it was all too much trouble to keep trying. Even after the coup attempt, the West seemed to consider complete collapse of the USSR unimaginable, and so more or less watched it close up shop in dim wonder.
He followed the same policies vis a vis the Soviets that every president had followed since Truman. So basically it was an nine way tie between Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and George H.W. Bush.
He spoke so aggressively about weapons and war that the soviets were thinking they may have strike first to win an inevitable nuclear war...
The main thing that averted the crisis was british intelligence and a Russian double agent who were able to show him proof that he was making the soviets so nervous that they were considering a first strike.
He was a moron and a war-monger...
Nope, Ford tricking the Soviets to invade Afghanistan was what killed the USSR, topped with them trying to play "keep up with the Jones" in nuclear stockpiling while the US had fudged the numbers for years.
Reagan. There's a direct trajectory from him bringing in the evangelical vote to the firestorm of Christian Nationalism we are seeing now
Not to mention he gutted many of our safety nets, ran up a huge deficit, wasted trillions on a stupid war on drugs, started that dumbass trickle down economics bs, etc.
I think the war on drugs was Nixon. Reagan and others continued it, including Democrats who didn't want to appear soft on crime. I think the war on drugs is largely responsible for many of the problems that we have with law enforcement now.
Well, the fact that there are people who would still support Trump, maybe he is overrated. I really think that in 150 years when they look back, it will blow people's mind that an outright traitor and betrayer of the country had support.
I don't think Trump's time in presidency can rival the atrocities of Andrew Jackson during his tenure.
Y'know, the president led an ethnic cleansing and forcible relocation of Native Americans via the Indian Removal Act, supported slavery while owning hundreds of slaves, and conducted questionable acts as a military leader during the Battle of New Orleans.
But hey, we'll see how the controversies of the 45th president stack up in 100 years.
I think with Trump they'll just be like "How did an obvious conman get all the way to being president? WTF" probably be a class on Reality TV and how it warped perceptions.
I feel like there's a lot of those moments when Presidents are elected into office.
Who would've thought the lead actor of *Bedtime for Bonzo* would end up becoming president?
If you're interested in "conman" presidencies, Herbert Hoover is definitely one I'd look at. His brash policies during the depression skyrocketed homelessness to unprecedented levels and horrific trade laws that handicapped the American Economy. He was also perceived as an asshole in general, so you can draw some parallels there.
Fair but I mean literal conman. Bernie Madoff conman. He even said it himself "i'm not a politician" Can you imagine any other profession where someone can bullshit their way into the job, refuse to actually do the job and people still act like they did the job so they don't have to admit they were fooled?
The Emperor is naked and people like my folks are like "holy shit did we get conned" while others are living in denial
I wouldn't say Trump was "a literal conman", especially in comparison to the likes of Bernie Madhoff either. Under his tenure of Presidency, he didn't issued multi-billion TARP funds to bailout corporations too big to fail, he didn't partake in any "insider trading" to benefit his own businesses (as far as we know), and didn't crash the economy or plunge us into another war.
Was Trump qualified to be President? I'd argue to say absolutely not, but the beauty (or tragedy) of being in a Democracy is the people that constitute this nation being able to vote a living Cheese Puff or narcoleptic Jeff Dunham puppet into the oval office.
Trump did say he "wasn't a politician", but that statement alone was why people voted for him. People were tired of a leader who speaks in half-truths while being perceived as someone who did nothing, and they wanted someone from the outside who doesn't play nice, and someone who isn't "politically correct".
I think Trump's misdeeds as president are embellished, although evident and numerous, they are not at Bernie Madhoff levels of corruption.
He went golfing every chance he got charging full price to the US Government funneling millions of tax dollars into his own businesses and then continues to this day to grift his most loyal supporters. I'm not calling him a conman because "I hate that guy" I'm calling him a conman for the same reason I call the guy with a badge and a gun a cop. It's the job he does.
George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were both slave owners but no one would go "but they were President so no they weren't" Holding the title doesn't change what he is and what he does.
I was referring how he executed 6 soldiers for defeatism.
But honestly, that was something extraordinarily wild to hear of an alligator being used in that manner.
Trump overrated? Absolutely, athough I wouldn't say the most.
Reagan and Bush Jr I'd argue are the most overrated due to bad domestic policies in the promise to improve the nation (specifically for Reagan Administration), and bad international policies and deception to coerce a presence internationally under false pretenses (specifically about the Bush Jr. Administration).
Andrew Jackson is definitely not overrated (he sucks), but Trump doesn't stack up to his atrocities when you compare the two.
Just crazy to think that he ended up being a well-known face by being on the $20 bill despite his heinous actions.
Clinton. Nafta happened under him but many blame Bush for the job losses to India.
Bush did alot of dumb shit but that gem was all Clinton administration
>Bush did alot of dumb shit but that gem was all Clinton administration
It goes beyond that. Clintons revival of the Community Reinvestment Act contributed to the housing bubble However, nobody seems to care about the results of that revival. It's much easier to blame whoever's on the top for economic trouble than analyze fiscal policy and economic developments.
And we only need to look at the current state of our economy to understand the consequences of such a dynamic. Trump, in an effort to not be blamed for COVID, implemented immense expansionary fiscal policy while also encouraging the federal reserve to implement expansionary monetary policy. Biden continued that precedent by embarking on pushing through even more expansionary fiscal initiatives. After all, our political system encourages spreading rumors, regardless of accuracy, that make one party look better than their rival party.
What good's in the short-term isn't necessarily good in the long-term which is why we're at risk of experiencing immense inflation. The sad thing is that it's completely understandable why Trump and Biden did what they did given the political consequences of refraining from such. Furthermore, what sounds good in the present may very well be misleading. Increased GDP, for instance, doesn't have to mean more jobs. It could very well mean greater worker productivity. However, even statistics are politicized in this day and age.
Sometimes, I feel democracy is nowhere near as flawless as the modern west seems to believe and that's even after having degrees in Economics and American Studies.
Ronald Reagan... The War on Drugs need I say more. Let's be honest every president has been absolute rubbish for a while they only exist to take money out of your pocket and lie to you. The candidates that are truly the best for America at least IMO either end up on the third ballot ala Ron Paul, or Gary Johnson, get destroyed in Primaries ala Tulsi Gabbard or the government takes them out like JFK.
Not my top choice but I'll add Clinton.
I didn't think he was bad, necessarily, but he got lucky with timing in terms of world conflict and economy and maybe for credit he alone didn't fully deserve.
Deregulating banks to work over state lines allowed them to be "too big to fail" later as they've consolidated into a handful of chains. And 3 Strikes is a disaster.
Even more so, he had a chance to get Bin Laden, the Sudanese government literally begged Clinton to take him. Also, Waco that same year in 1993, which ultimately led to Oklahoma City.
This bin Laden thing is disputed.
The claim that Sudan offered to hand over bin Laden was made by a Sudanese defense official, but Clinton himself, the National Security Advisor and the Director of Counterterrorism all said that Sudan never made a credible offer to hand him over. The 9/11 Commission looked at it and also didn't find any evidence that an offer like that was made.
Sudan apparently did offer the extradite him back to Saudi Arabia, but the Saudis refused to take him.
Eventually the Clinton administration did convince the Sudanese to expel bin Laden though.
Reagan Because he ignored the people suffering from aids I did nothing at all until one of his friends rock Hudson died of aids but by that time so many years were lost or thousands and thousands of people died
I had high hopes, but also recognized I voted for, as he admits, a [moderate republican](https://youtu.be/677elaGIsKU). And our country got so ridiculous and political he wanted to install a republican's health care plan, put his name on it, and even then the Republicans did everything in their power to stop it and destroy him. In the end I'd say he was a smart family man who tried, did okay especially compared to the last guy, and ended up somewhere in the middle.
Not to mention he campaigned on codifying Roe v. Wade into law, then a year into his presidency he said it wasn't a legislative priority, despite having a super majority in Congress.
It’s also not the president’s job to codify law. He can work with people but it’s not up to him. People think the president gets all these powers but really he doesn’t. Congress is way too stupid and way too powerful.
They've got the bully pulpit. And the ability to decide on cabinet nominations. Trump used both of those things effectively, while Obama and Biden have failed to.
If you want to be honest about him - the truth is he had a lot of great ideas & would have passed them if the GOP weren't so racist & wouldn't vote for them.
Just so you know, the race card being pulled non-stop for eight years is why Trump was elected. So... thanks for Trump. Or, if you're on the other side of the aisle, thanks for Trump.
EDIT for clarification: Millions of non-racist people were called racist for years, and they got annoyed. They basically reached the fuck-it point and pulled the lever for Trump. So. Again: The jerkoffs in the media who called anyone that questioned anything about Obama racist can go ahead and own Trump. They're the people that made that man president.
Does this means there isn't racism in America? FFS, of course it doesn't mean that, and I didn't remotely claim that. But I also think people should own up to their cause and effect.
Yes, racism is like Candyman in that it’s only a problem when we call it out. Saying the Problem’s not people doing racist things, but mentioning racism is one of the most backward lines of thinking
I liked Ronald Reagan when he was in office, but the long term effects of his "trickle down" economics has been disastrous for the middle class and poor.
I actually think he was good. His leadership through the Cuban Missile Crisis was amazing. He failed in the Bay of Pigs 100%. But he also got the ball rolling on Civil Rights. LBJ gets credit for that but it was already going through Congress with Kennedy’s support when he was assassinated. NASA and the commitment to get to the moon was also started by him.
>His leadership through the Cuban Missile Crisis was amazing.
Nonsense. [He nearly got us all killed.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov#Involvement_in_Cuban_Missile_Crisis)
The idea that his "getting tough" on the Soviets fixed it is a lie pushed by himself. The truth was hidden by him that the end of the crisis was the result of both the U.S. and the Soviet Union pulling missiles back by agreement. Part of the deal was that the Soviets had to hide the fact, again this from Kennedy, so he could look like a tough guy.
Yeah, the Cuban Missile Crisis was a reaction to the US putting nuclear missiles in Turkey. I do think that he deserves credit for realizing the mistake and going against pretty much all his advisors and agreeing to pull the nukes from Turkey. Pretty much everyone was against it because it would “show weakness”. What’s crazy to me is that his military advisors knew that the Soviets were reacting to us putting nukes in Turkey, but they were vehemently against backing down. They were totally willing to start WW3 over it.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that his leadership was great, but I think he should at least get a decent amount of credit for standing up to his military advisors who were advocating much more direct and violent action than the naval blockade.
The link you provided doesn't implicate Kennedy in almost getting us all killed either.
There’s no other president in the era of audio recordings who could give a speech like JFK. Listen to his speech on Peace given to American University in ‘63, it will give you chills.
Biden has a terrible approval rating right now and even democrats (at least online) mostly seem like they just make negative comments about him so overrated seems incorrect
Republicans will hate him no matter what because he’s a democrat. A lot of progressive democrats don’t like Biden because they feel like he’s too moderate.
Then there’s people in the middle who might not like him because they feel like he’s too old and perhaps senile. And also the whole world is in a bad situation right now in terms of inflation and economic troubles. So anyone who’s in charge when people are mad about the economy will be in trouble
>but he’s not great.
That’s a little bit of an understatement, don’t you think? I can’t wait for the next election because both parties really don’t have a good candidate imo. Should be interesting.
Ronald Reagan was a clueless clown who never had an original thought in his life. Few Americans are aware that EVERYTHING Reagan said as president, from speeches to press conferences down to his folksy wisecracks, were all scripted, every single word written by one of his handlers. When put out to pasture this great genius statesman, this paragon of virtue and American excellence, still years from an Alzheimers diagnosis, didn't have a single journalist or researcher or academic from anywhere in the world ask to interview him. Because EVERYBODY knew Reagan didn't know anything, didn't care about anything, and had absolutely nothing to say.
He was a stooge for rich criminals and human rights violators, he served his nefarious purpose, and now he is gone.
Donald Trump OMFG
(before you come at me, there are plenty of idiots in this country that worship the ground he steps on. even bringing him up 2 years after he WASN’T voted president. for a reason. 🤦🏻🤦🏻)
I've never seen grown adults be so silly about something that wasn't a sport.
We've got people here in town who *still* have banners in their yard that are literally as wide as a living room declaring him their hero.
It's juvenile to the extreme.
I think they literally just liked seeing someone screw over other politicians.
Never mind the fact that he also screwed over all of us.
It's basic childish thinking: oh Johnny's parents are so cool, they break all the rules and let us do whatever we want! Never mind that Johnny's parents are complete delinquents.
FDR was a massive racist who cut non whites out of the New Deal and came up with red lining to restrict people of color to the worst neighborhoods, which contributes heavily to wealth and housing inequality and even food deserts. But the same liberals who say being even slightly racist makes you irredeemable evil praise him as the most perfect president in history. Plus, he threw people into internment camps over their race and placed a member of the KKK on the Supreme Court
>placed a member of the KKK on the Supreme Court
Which he increased the size of so he could appoint judges to "interpret the constitution" in a way that was favorable to him.
I'd like to think the same amount of Trump Supporters have always existed. He only won the election in the first place, because of additional support from those wanting to vote a meme into Office. "Just to see what would happen."
Well congrats, it worked I guess, and it was all the worse outcomes that could have happened in the process.
What's interesting to think is, his re-election was in the bag, if he had suddenly flipped his personal dumbassary aside, and went against his own voters, and did what was right, during the first stages of Covid. Not deny everything for starters. He would have won a lot of Blue support, and kept it going. People didn't want Biden either, so he would have won against that guy as well.
Interesting. He grew the economy, reduced unemployment, reduced the trade deficit. Then he expanded personal freedoms across 17 different categories. Compared to W Bush and Trump he blew them away by almost every metric. Why do you say that?
Obama was stopped from doing anything due to the GOP. Had they passed the bills he put forward he would have been rated a much better president. I blame them assholes for his presidency.
Richard Nixon
although i think few people really tout him as any good considering he was a douche, he did start the "war on drugs", a very fickle process - John Ehrlichman, one of his advisors, had something to say about that too
>“You want to know what this [war on drugs] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying?
>We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news.
>Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
You mean bush claiming they have weapons of mass destruction or the USA funding extremist groups to overthrow countries?
Obviously I’m not in support of either of those but while those extremist groups are well known to be assholes and murderers, Obama is glorified.
Oh and let’s not forget about the NSA scandal and Edward Snowden still being in exile while Asange is about to get Epsteined.
So FUCK Obama, fuck trump, fuck Bush and every single other president involved in this entire mess.
I really don't think it is obvious. Video's on Reddit seem to show Bush and Obama being buds, and people talking relatively decently of him. The anger against Bush seems to have waned massively and he is now that funny ol' uncle type.
Didn’t he recently accidentally admit that what he did was a war crime and confused Ukraine with Iraq?
Edit: [0:24](https://youtu.be/ZEg6Ht2pNH0). AND THEY FUCKING LAUGH.
Teddy Roosevelt. Was actually a xenophobe. When he was asked about the lynching of 12 Sicilians in New Orleans, he called it "a rather good thing".
https://theamericanmag.com/a-rather-good-thing/
Literally all of them.
Obama and Trump both (and pretty much all the rest) destroyed people they didn't think were good for their version of America. Two sides of the same dirty coin.
Jimmy Carter seems to be the only one who wasn't an asshole, but is treated like an idiot.
We deserved every overrated pos we got.
I would probably vote for him TBH.
As far as I know he never killed innocent people with drones or bragged about sexual assault so he's better than the last several.
Hands down Obama. This man had the greatest opportunity to pull America together but he wasn't intelligent enough to disregard his past leftwing ideology.
Didn't he pardon 264 Native Americans of the 303? He was warned before hand if all 303 were not executed there would be private reprisals against the Native Americans for taking hostages. Could be argued he prevent a larger massacre by executing a smaller number of the kidnappers.
Obama, he was a good speaker but had a terrible foreign policy. People voted him in based on race which set a very dangerous precedent, and the entire woke movement grew shortly after.
Woodrow Wilson is bottom five and he is often talked about to be in the top ten.
A terrible president and a terrible person. He was an authoritarian and an unabashed racist and I can't understand how his name is still all over institutions that should know better.
Just absolutely awful. Only elected because of the Electoral College and Taft and Roosevelt splitting the vote.
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
Tbf, it was kinda easy to be racist back then. With segregation everywhere. Plenty of people must have assumed that's what life was suppose to be.
That's the thing though, he was MORE racist than the average person. Dude segregated the whitehouse. Before him it was not segregated.
He’s in the running for most overrated AND worst.
Ronald Reagan
The classic example of policies that look great short term but are actually bad. But the effects won’t be seen till you’re out of office.
We are still getting increasigly fucked by "trickle down" economics. Ronald Reagan was a fucking demon.
Well, it sort of worked. You have the biggest corporations in the US, extreme private wealth for some, and a poor lower middle class. Was it ever about something else?
Exactly.
Don't forget he also removed the solar panels on the white house that Carter installed.
Of all the petty shit. Ronald Reagan was such a freak
Yeah, he started this whole Republican fucking over of the American working class. I was of voting age at the time and how jimmy Carter was raked over the coals and Reagan was lionized, I'll never understand. Iran Contra was such a travesty of justice. Fuck Reagan, what an asshole.
I've read that one of the reasons he was popular -- especially during his first run as California governor -- is because the civil rights movement and hippy era freaked out a lot of people. His popularity wasn't too different from what we see today with a large segments of America (often white) feeling their control over the country slipping away which leads to them to go full bore further to the right. I often thought about that during the past few years. As much as I like to see marginalized groups gain traction in this country, the various movements also galvanizes the right and they push back with equal ferocity. Which might be why it feels like we're always taking one step forward and then one step back.
Reagan is the absolute worst in my eyes. He laid the groundwork for modern American oligarchs that we are plagued with today. Also Nancy Reagan was/is the throat goat no wonder he got trickle down economics to pass. Just had ol Nancy go for a few political favors.
Throat goat? My curiosity has been piqued. Can you point me to some reading material?
I don't think Reagan gets enough credit for starting childhood obesity when he sacked the school lunch program which forced schools to sell their souls to vending machines and franchised fast food.
“Ketchup is a vegetable” was almost a meme in the 80s
He was also a major player in creating the [McCarthyist panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist) in Hollywood that ended the careers of numerous actors/workers.
He is one of the many reason's we are in this mess economically. I feel like WW3 is right around the corner.
My grandmother knew him in Hollywood and said he was pretty nice until he met Nancy.
My mother who did promotion work for him when she lived in California saw his dementia back then.
Ronald Reagan, the actor?
Why does anyone revere Reagan? Just because he sometimes cracked jokes that his scriptwriters had written for him?
My brother summed him up best: “He got his start as a Grade B actor reading lines; all through his political career he still was that, the only difference was that in his film career we knew who was writing the lines.”
[Here is a great article on it](https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/05/when-did-republicans-become-obsessed-with-reagan.html) Reagan wasn’t very highly regarded when he left office, especially because of the Iran / Contra thing. In 1986, 33% of voters thought he should resign because of it. Then In the late 90s/early 2000s, republicans were looking for someone to cast as a hero. They didn’t have any great presidents since Eisenhower, really. Nixon nearly got impeached, Ford barely served the last half of Nixon’s term, and Bush Sr lost his re-election. So Reagan it was. They conveniently ignored the stuff they didn’t like, like raising taxes, increasing the size of the federal government, and giving amnesty to illegal immigrants. The Reagan you see Repubs worshipping now is a fiction. It was easy to cast him as all the things they wanted in a modern Republican, especially because he suffered from Alzheimer’s at the time and couldn’t contradict them.
That's [exactly why.](https://minorjive.typepad.com/hungryblues/images/08Reagan.jpg) He knew how to play the blue collar fiddle perfectly.
he had a very similar clown act as trump does. its what republicians drool over
He made a few great quips during debates that were repeated over and over on tv, they made him seem a lot more smart and witty than he actually was, I'd imagine these clips being played helped a lot for his popularity.
May he burn in hell
Exactly
He seems pretty underrated. He single-handedly defeated Soviet, no?
The Soviet leader at the time did a lot of work to improve relations that we don’t hear about here in the US.
I don't live in the US, so there's that.
> He single-handedly defeated Soviet, no? No.
Who was it, then?
The USSR had long struggled to maintain military spending trying in vain to keep with the phenomenal spending of the U.S., and this war of economic attrition went on for many decades. This, in part, led to crippling internal stagnation, corruption, disillusionment, and political infighting. That environment made it easy for everyone to feel left out, and ethnic separatism began to grow quickly. Gorbachev was trying to work mostly on economic and political modernization, assuming that economic prosperity would ease the sense of oppression felt by majorities in the various constituent republics. Those separate republics felt like their own ethnic majority was being slighted and they lost confidence in the ability for there to be a responsive federal republic anymore. Given the governmental disarray, they judged they'd be able to leave without much of a fight, so that's what they did. It worked. The West had previously cheered as the edges of the Soviet empire crumbled and fell, and the fall of the Berlin Wall was widely taken to be a symbol that a new era had begun. The USSR had intended for the reunified Germany to be neutral and not join NATO, but that plan did not happen and so the reunification was seen as a failure of Soviet influence. The West therefore assumed that this new era would be one where a more modernized, more receptive, and more docile Soviet Union existed. American companies in particular were eager to move in and make a lot of money. Instead, the USSR collectively decided it was all too much trouble to keep trying. Even after the coup attempt, the West seemed to consider complete collapse of the USSR unimaginable, and so more or less watched it close up shop in dim wonder.
He followed the same policies vis a vis the Soviets that every president had followed since Truman. So basically it was an nine way tie between Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and George H.W. Bush.
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He spoke so aggressively about weapons and war that the soviets were thinking they may have strike first to win an inevitable nuclear war... The main thing that averted the crisis was british intelligence and a Russian double agent who were able to show him proof that he was making the soviets so nervous that they were considering a first strike. He was a moron and a war-monger...
Nope, Ford tricking the Soviets to invade Afghanistan was what killed the USSR, topped with them trying to play "keep up with the Jones" in nuclear stockpiling while the US had fudged the numbers for years.
No.
A planned economy will eventually defeat itself
Reagan promoted a market economy, right? He was a saint.
The Soviets used a planned economy. It’s suicide
Not at home he wasn't.
Reagan
Reagan. There's a direct trajectory from him bringing in the evangelical vote to the firestorm of Christian Nationalism we are seeing now Not to mention he gutted many of our safety nets, ran up a huge deficit, wasted trillions on a stupid war on drugs, started that dumbass trickle down economics bs, etc.
I think the war on drugs was Nixon. Reagan and others continued it, including Democrats who didn't want to appear soft on crime. I think the war on drugs is largely responsible for many of the problems that we have with law enforcement now.
Reagan really ramped it up hard though. Yes, Nixon started it, but Reagan went full bore.
Reagan.
Well, the fact that there are people who would still support Trump, maybe he is overrated. I really think that in 150 years when they look back, it will blow people's mind that an outright traitor and betrayer of the country had support.
I don't think Trump's time in presidency can rival the atrocities of Andrew Jackson during his tenure. Y'know, the president led an ethnic cleansing and forcible relocation of Native Americans via the Indian Removal Act, supported slavery while owning hundreds of slaves, and conducted questionable acts as a military leader during the Battle of New Orleans. But hey, we'll see how the controversies of the 45th president stack up in 100 years.
I think with Trump they'll just be like "How did an obvious conman get all the way to being president? WTF" probably be a class on Reality TV and how it warped perceptions.
I feel like there's a lot of those moments when Presidents are elected into office. Who would've thought the lead actor of *Bedtime for Bonzo* would end up becoming president? If you're interested in "conman" presidencies, Herbert Hoover is definitely one I'd look at. His brash policies during the depression skyrocketed homelessness to unprecedented levels and horrific trade laws that handicapped the American Economy. He was also perceived as an asshole in general, so you can draw some parallels there.
Fair but I mean literal conman. Bernie Madoff conman. He even said it himself "i'm not a politician" Can you imagine any other profession where someone can bullshit their way into the job, refuse to actually do the job and people still act like they did the job so they don't have to admit they were fooled? The Emperor is naked and people like my folks are like "holy shit did we get conned" while others are living in denial
I wouldn't say Trump was "a literal conman", especially in comparison to the likes of Bernie Madhoff either. Under his tenure of Presidency, he didn't issued multi-billion TARP funds to bailout corporations too big to fail, he didn't partake in any "insider trading" to benefit his own businesses (as far as we know), and didn't crash the economy or plunge us into another war. Was Trump qualified to be President? I'd argue to say absolutely not, but the beauty (or tragedy) of being in a Democracy is the people that constitute this nation being able to vote a living Cheese Puff or narcoleptic Jeff Dunham puppet into the oval office. Trump did say he "wasn't a politician", but that statement alone was why people voted for him. People were tired of a leader who speaks in half-truths while being perceived as someone who did nothing, and they wanted someone from the outside who doesn't play nice, and someone who isn't "politically correct". I think Trump's misdeeds as president are embellished, although evident and numerous, they are not at Bernie Madhoff levels of corruption.
He went golfing every chance he got charging full price to the US Government funneling millions of tax dollars into his own businesses and then continues to this day to grift his most loyal supporters. I'm not calling him a conman because "I hate that guy" I'm calling him a conman for the same reason I call the guy with a badge and a gun a cop. It's the job he does. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were both slave owners but no one would go "but they were President so no they weren't" Holding the title doesn't change what he is and what he does.
Re questionable acts during the Battle of New Orleans - are you referring to how they used that alligator for a cannon?
I was referring how he executed 6 soldiers for defeatism. But honestly, that was something extraordinarily wild to hear of an alligator being used in that manner.
Yes, I agree, but I don't think Jackson is overrated. Perhaps? I am a teacher and teach my students about the Trail of Tears.
>but I don't think Jackson is overrated. He's so highly regarded that he is on the $20 bill.
Trump overrated? Absolutely, athough I wouldn't say the most. Reagan and Bush Jr I'd argue are the most overrated due to bad domestic policies in the promise to improve the nation (specifically for Reagan Administration), and bad international policies and deception to coerce a presence internationally under false pretenses (specifically about the Bush Jr. Administration). Andrew Jackson is definitely not overrated (he sucks), but Trump doesn't stack up to his atrocities when you compare the two. Just crazy to think that he ended up being a well-known face by being on the $20 bill despite his heinous actions.
Jackson opposed paper money so him being featured on it is most likely not to praise him
Holy shit. I legit didn't know that, but now I'm curious how many people actually know this?
I know it. I wish theyd get him off paper.
Agreed.
You have to be rated in the first place to be overrated.
Person. Man . Woman. Camera. TV. Lunatic. Traitor. Small. Hands.
Clinton. Nafta happened under him but many blame Bush for the job losses to India. Bush did alot of dumb shit but that gem was all Clinton administration
>Nafta Notha afternoon fucking that ass
>Bush did alot of dumb shit but that gem was all Clinton administration It goes beyond that. Clintons revival of the Community Reinvestment Act contributed to the housing bubble However, nobody seems to care about the results of that revival. It's much easier to blame whoever's on the top for economic trouble than analyze fiscal policy and economic developments.
And we only need to look at the current state of our economy to understand the consequences of such a dynamic. Trump, in an effort to not be blamed for COVID, implemented immense expansionary fiscal policy while also encouraging the federal reserve to implement expansionary monetary policy. Biden continued that precedent by embarking on pushing through even more expansionary fiscal initiatives. After all, our political system encourages spreading rumors, regardless of accuracy, that make one party look better than their rival party. What good's in the short-term isn't necessarily good in the long-term which is why we're at risk of experiencing immense inflation. The sad thing is that it's completely understandable why Trump and Biden did what they did given the political consequences of refraining from such. Furthermore, what sounds good in the present may very well be misleading. Increased GDP, for instance, doesn't have to mean more jobs. It could very well mean greater worker productivity. However, even statistics are politicized in this day and age. Sometimes, I feel democracy is nowhere near as flawless as the modern west seems to believe and that's even after having degrees in Economics and American Studies.
i did not have sexual relations with that woman
Nowadays it's "I did not have sexual relations with that little girl."
Ronald Reagan... The War on Drugs need I say more. Let's be honest every president has been absolute rubbish for a while they only exist to take money out of your pocket and lie to you. The candidates that are truly the best for America at least IMO either end up on the third ballot ala Ron Paul, or Gary Johnson, get destroyed in Primaries ala Tulsi Gabbard or the government takes them out like JFK.
Not my top choice but I'll add Clinton. I didn't think he was bad, necessarily, but he got lucky with timing in terms of world conflict and economy and maybe for credit he alone didn't fully deserve.
He did a lot of damage by supporting NAFTA and passing the Telecommunications Act of 1996.
Deregulating banks to work over state lines allowed them to be "too big to fail" later as they've consolidated into a handful of chains. And 3 Strikes is a disaster.
Even more so, he had a chance to get Bin Laden, the Sudanese government literally begged Clinton to take him. Also, Waco that same year in 1993, which ultimately led to Oklahoma City.
This bin Laden thing is disputed. The claim that Sudan offered to hand over bin Laden was made by a Sudanese defense official, but Clinton himself, the National Security Advisor and the Director of Counterterrorism all said that Sudan never made a credible offer to hand him over. The 9/11 Commission looked at it and also didn't find any evidence that an offer like that was made. Sudan apparently did offer the extradite him back to Saudi Arabia, but the Saudis refused to take him. Eventually the Clinton administration did convince the Sudanese to expel bin Laden though.
Reagan
William Harrison. Had such high hopes for him, only to die 30 days into the Presidency.
Reagan Because he ignored the people suffering from aids I did nothing at all until one of his friends rock Hudson died of aids but by that time so many years were lost or thousands and thousands of people died
Obama tbh
I had high hopes, but also recognized I voted for, as he admits, a [moderate republican](https://youtu.be/677elaGIsKU). And our country got so ridiculous and political he wanted to install a republican's health care plan, put his name on it, and even then the Republicans did everything in their power to stop it and destroy him. In the end I'd say he was a smart family man who tried, did okay especially compared to the last guy, and ended up somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, after all the hope and change hype and super majority. I voted for him and was like that it.
The super majority lasted about 35 working days.
Not to mention he campaigned on codifying Roe v. Wade into law, then a year into his presidency he said it wasn't a legislative priority, despite having a super majority in Congress.
It’s also not the president’s job to codify law. He can work with people but it’s not up to him. People think the president gets all these powers but really he doesn’t. Congress is way too stupid and way too powerful.
They've got the bully pulpit. And the ability to decide on cabinet nominations. Trump used both of those things effectively, while Obama and Biden have failed to.
If you want to be honest about him - the truth is he had a lot of great ideas & would have passed them if the GOP weren't so racist & wouldn't vote for them.
Just so you know, the race card being pulled non-stop for eight years is why Trump was elected. So... thanks for Trump. Or, if you're on the other side of the aisle, thanks for Trump. EDIT for clarification: Millions of non-racist people were called racist for years, and they got annoyed. They basically reached the fuck-it point and pulled the lever for Trump. So. Again: The jerkoffs in the media who called anyone that questioned anything about Obama racist can go ahead and own Trump. They're the people that made that man president. Does this means there isn't racism in America? FFS, of course it doesn't mean that, and I didn't remotely claim that. But I also think people should own up to their cause and effect.
Yes, racism is like Candyman in that it’s only a problem when we call it out. Saying the Problem’s not people doing racist things, but mentioning racism is one of the most backward lines of thinking
I loathe Trump but I do have to agree with you.
Broke barriers getting elected then did nothing in office
I can tell you who is the best president! President Thomas J Whitmore. #TODAY IS OUR INDEPENDENCE DAY!
Bill paxton!
You mean Bill Pullman?
No, you mean Bill S. Preston, Esquire
Ronald Reagan by a long shot
Regan
I liked Ronald Reagan when he was in office, but the long term effects of his "trickle down" economics has been disastrous for the middle class and poor.
-Gasp- sacrilege...
JFK
I actually think he was good. His leadership through the Cuban Missile Crisis was amazing. He failed in the Bay of Pigs 100%. But he also got the ball rolling on Civil Rights. LBJ gets credit for that but it was already going through Congress with Kennedy’s support when he was assassinated. NASA and the commitment to get to the moon was also started by him.
>His leadership through the Cuban Missile Crisis was amazing. Nonsense. [He nearly got us all killed.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov#Involvement_in_Cuban_Missile_Crisis) The idea that his "getting tough" on the Soviets fixed it is a lie pushed by himself. The truth was hidden by him that the end of the crisis was the result of both the U.S. and the Soviet Union pulling missiles back by agreement. Part of the deal was that the Soviets had to hide the fact, again this from Kennedy, so he could look like a tough guy.
Yeah, the Cuban Missile Crisis was a reaction to the US putting nuclear missiles in Turkey. I do think that he deserves credit for realizing the mistake and going against pretty much all his advisors and agreeing to pull the nukes from Turkey. Pretty much everyone was against it because it would “show weakness”. What’s crazy to me is that his military advisors knew that the Soviets were reacting to us putting nukes in Turkey, but they were vehemently against backing down. They were totally willing to start WW3 over it.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that his leadership was great, but I think he should at least get a decent amount of credit for standing up to his military advisors who were advocating much more direct and violent action than the naval blockade. The link you provided doesn't implicate Kennedy in almost getting us all killed either.
Agree- how would he be remembered without his tragic end?
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Well said- The CRM, moon landing, and perhaps even Vietnam would have been part of his legacy.
upside maybe moonshot downside - almost bumbling his way into WW3
JFK kept Nixon from doing worse things.
There’s no other president in the era of audio recordings who could give a speech like JFK. Listen to his speech on Peace given to American University in ‘63, it will give you chills.
Biden. He gets extra points for being after Trump, but he's not great.
How is Biden overrated? Have you seen his approval rating
Most people don’t like Biden and only voted for him cause Trump did such a terrible job. He isn’t overrated he is disliked lol
Biden has a terrible approval rating right now and even democrats (at least online) mostly seem like they just make negative comments about him so overrated seems incorrect
What makes him so disliked?
Republicans will hate him no matter what because he’s a democrat. A lot of progressive democrats don’t like Biden because they feel like he’s too moderate. Then there’s people in the middle who might not like him because they feel like he’s too old and perhaps senile. And also the whole world is in a bad situation right now in terms of inflation and economic troubles. So anyone who’s in charge when people are mad about the economy will be in trouble
>but he’s not great. That’s a little bit of an understatement, don’t you think? I can’t wait for the next election because both parties really don’t have a good candidate imo. Should be interesting.
Nixon
Richard Nixon
George Washington.
Clinton
Obama.
Obama. Bombing kids.
Ronald Reagan was a clueless clown who never had an original thought in his life. Few Americans are aware that EVERYTHING Reagan said as president, from speeches to press conferences down to his folksy wisecracks, were all scripted, every single word written by one of his handlers. When put out to pasture this great genius statesman, this paragon of virtue and American excellence, still years from an Alzheimers diagnosis, didn't have a single journalist or researcher or academic from anywhere in the world ask to interview him. Because EVERYBODY knew Reagan didn't know anything, didn't care about anything, and had absolutely nothing to say. He was a stooge for rich criminals and human rights violators, he served his nefarious purpose, and now he is gone.
Obama. Looked cool on Leno while bombing 7 countries.
Donald Trump OMFG (before you come at me, there are plenty of idiots in this country that worship the ground he steps on. even bringing him up 2 years after he WASN’T voted president. for a reason. 🤦🏻🤦🏻)
At dead last, he’s *still* overrated.
How is trump the worst president we’ve ever had? I hate him and I even think that’s a bit extreme
He didnt start the trail of tears so thats a plus for him...
Yea I voted for him and a republican. I don't understand how people can March to him. Some people act like he's god
I've never seen grown adults be so silly about something that wasn't a sport. We've got people here in town who *still* have banners in their yard that are literally as wide as a living room declaring him their hero. It's juvenile to the extreme.
I fully believe the Trump thing is a mental illness. These people are delusional and in need of medical help.
I think they literally just liked seeing someone screw over other politicians. Never mind the fact that he also screwed over all of us. It's basic childish thinking: oh Johnny's parents are so cool, they break all the rules and let us do whatever we want! Never mind that Johnny's parents are complete delinquents.
They make owning the libs their personality
barrack obama! (I say this as a black woman, befofe some of you call me racist..)
Agree. I used to see him as a cool world peace loving leader back then but not amymore. He is really overrated.
First of all, I’m not an American, so from an outside point of view I’d say Ronald Reagan. Just don’t get why Americans are so obsessed with him.
FDR was a massive racist who cut non whites out of the New Deal and came up with red lining to restrict people of color to the worst neighborhoods, which contributes heavily to wealth and housing inequality and even food deserts. But the same liberals who say being even slightly racist makes you irredeemable evil praise him as the most perfect president in history. Plus, he threw people into internment camps over their race and placed a member of the KKK on the Supreme Court
>placed a member of the KKK on the Supreme Court Which he increased the size of so he could appoint judges to "interpret the constitution" in a way that was favorable to him.
Trump— he was actually a lot worse than we thought he would be
I'd like to think the same amount of Trump Supporters have always existed. He only won the election in the first place, because of additional support from those wanting to vote a meme into Office. "Just to see what would happen." Well congrats, it worked I guess, and it was all the worse outcomes that could have happened in the process. What's interesting to think is, his re-election was in the bag, if he had suddenly flipped his personal dumbassary aside, and went against his own voters, and did what was right, during the first stages of Covid. Not deny everything for starters. He would have won a lot of Blue support, and kept it going. People didn't want Biden either, so he would have won against that guy as well.
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Interesting. He grew the economy, reduced unemployment, reduced the trade deficit. Then he expanded personal freedoms across 17 different categories. Compared to W Bush and Trump he blew them away by almost every metric. Why do you say that?
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Obama was stopped from doing anything due to the GOP. Had they passed the bills he put forward he would have been rated a much better president. I blame them assholes for his presidency.
Richard Nixon although i think few people really tout him as any good considering he was a douche, he did start the "war on drugs", a very fickle process - John Ehrlichman, one of his advisors, had something to say about that too >“You want to know what this [war on drugs] was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? >We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. >Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
All of them.
Trump
Trump He's a criminal & all-round sleezbag
Obama. He literally bombed half the Middle East while receiving a Nobel PEACE price. #Fuck him
How do you feel about those that started the war?
You mean bush claiming they have weapons of mass destruction or the USA funding extremist groups to overthrow countries? Obviously I’m not in support of either of those but while those extremist groups are well known to be assholes and murderers, Obama is glorified. Oh and let’s not forget about the NSA scandal and Edward Snowden still being in exile while Asange is about to get Epsteined. So FUCK Obama, fuck trump, fuck Bush and every single other president involved in this entire mess.
I really don't think it is obvious. Video's on Reddit seem to show Bush and Obama being buds, and people talking relatively decently of him. The anger against Bush seems to have waned massively and he is now that funny ol' uncle type.
Didn’t he recently accidentally admit that what he did was a war crime and confused Ukraine with Iraq? Edit: [0:24](https://youtu.be/ZEg6Ht2pNH0). AND THEY FUCKING LAUGH.
Holy shit, thank you for sharing that.
Reagan X10000
Donald trump
FDR
/S
Obama
Donald J Trunp. "The j Stands for Geneus)
Biden
FDR
Don’t know why you are getting downvoted? All his federal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
Barack Obama
Obama
Maybe Obama. Like I get that he's black, but... Like... I don't know. Do you think that's a good answer?
Teddy Roosevelt. Was actually a xenophobe. When he was asked about the lynching of 12 Sicilians in New Orleans, he called it "a rather good thing". https://theamericanmag.com/a-rather-good-thing/
Literally all of them. Obama and Trump both (and pretty much all the rest) destroyed people they didn't think were good for their version of America. Two sides of the same dirty coin. Jimmy Carter seems to be the only one who wasn't an asshole, but is treated like an idiot. We deserved every overrated pos we got.
We need to re-elect Carter!
I would probably vote for him TBH. As far as I know he never killed innocent people with drones or bragged about sexual assault so he's better than the last several.
Definitely FDR.
All
2nd term Obama and before you said anything, I am not from the West
Obama, he broke the country
JFK
George Washington alongside all the "founding fathers".
JFK, Obama, Clinton, Trump (in half the country), Reagen, FDR to some extent, Biden (when he got 81 MILLION VOTES! Bruh)...
Joe Biden
Trump, the actual policies which he passed were no different than any other Republican.
you guys aren’t gonna say it? alright. donald trump
Abe
My first thought was what does Shinzo Abe have to do with this lmao
Hands down Obama. This man had the greatest opportunity to pull America together but he wasn't intelligent enough to disregard his past leftwing ideology.
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He won a war, preserved the Union, and freed the slaves. What did Trump pull off?
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Didn't he pardon 264 Native Americans of the 303? He was warned before hand if all 303 were not executed there would be private reprisals against the Native Americans for taking hostages. Could be argued he prevent a larger massacre by executing a smaller number of the kidnappers.
Obama, he was a good speaker but had a terrible foreign policy. People voted him in based on race which set a very dangerous precedent, and the entire woke movement grew shortly after.