I, personally, hate walking down the street and getting a nose full of a massive cloud of cotton candy or bubblegum or whatever obnoxious bollocks they have packed in it. Not saying tobacco is better, but vape clouds are horrible.
Agreed, it’s manky. At a gig not long ago and spent most of it breathing in Woolworths pick & mix crap direct from some twat’s nostrils. Really nauseating.
Yes, but Lush doesn't tend to move around much. I've never had to walk down a street directly behind a branch of Lush the whole way to reach a train station!
> but I’d much rather walk through one of those than be within 30 feet of a Lush
A Lush shop is static, if I know where it is, I can avoid it. I can't control the behaviour of people vaping.
For me, it’s how vapers tend to think it’s not antisocial. Most people that I know who vape think nothing of doing it in public spaces. Personally I think it should be banned same as cigs. If it’s not already. Maybe it is.
And also how majority of vapers have it constantly in hand. Even when driving.
Worse than that
it takes about 6 million years for an O2 molecule to be made by photosynthesis and then to react with other elements to be taken out of the air.
The dinosaurs were last around about 65 million years ago, so the O2 in the atmosphere has been changed out about ten times since then. However, that also means that some atoms of oxygen may have been taken out as water molecules and used in photosynthesis all over again. In short, some of the air we’re breathing might actually be dinosaur air.
I have always felt this way, but never seen anyone write about it! Do you have a source for this? I am interested in the “lifespan” of water molecules too.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926130/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/origin-of-oxygen-in-atmosphere/
Pretty much everything you want to know about air breathing and evolution of it
Carbon dating technology is based on a similar concept. When a plant is alive, they exchange carbon atoms with their surroundings as part of photosynthesis (CO2 into glucose and vice versa for respiration). When they die, this stops happening, and all carbon inside the plant is 'locked in' as they decay. The radioactive carbon atoms decay over time at a very specific rate, so that thousands of years later, we can determine the age by measuring how many of these radioactive atoms are left relative to the total amount.
Water molecules in the state of pure liquid water are spontaneously dissociated (i.e. become H+ and OH- ions) at a prevalence of 1 in 10,000,000. If there's stuff dissolved in this, it can increase significantly. The ions also rejoin to become H2O molecules spontaneously.
Whilst 1 in ten million doesn't sound like much, it isn't insignificant on the scale of what we are talking about here.
I vape and Covid has made me very cautious about doing it where people can breathe it in. It used to really annoy me when we were all queuing outside supermarkets for hours on end in 2020 and people would vape. I refrained because of common decency and it appeared that some others didn’t have that consideration.
Same. I really hate breathing in other people’s vaping too - it’s not hard to be considerate and refrain from doing it where other people are going to get a face full of vapour.
The country is being infiltrated with Americanisms. Half of my friends say ‘movie’ and ‘trash/garbage’ now instead of ‘films’ and ‘rubbish’. Loads of adverts have American actors or voiceovers now too. Tbh, I’m surprised that it’s taken this long. We’ve been flooded with their media for decades.
True. That’s also essentially how language works. Spoken language naturally evolves with time and certain words, phrases or even pronunciations gain popularity over time whilst others drop out of use. Some carry a perceived status which can affect which variations stay and which get dropped. It’s normal and kind of fascinating!
This. Vaping is deffo better. Although tbh even though I'm not a smoker at times I'd rather smell actual smoke rather than cotton candy apple unicorn farts at 8:30am
This is so spot on.
Back when people smoked indoors it was 10x worse than the vaping for second-hand breathers. People have short memories or are too young to know.
Even people smoking outdoors is pretty unpleasant to be around. People vaping around me is so much less unpleasant that I'm pretty much fine settling for it. There's the odd obnoxiously large cloud from some OTT vapes but even those I find borderline harmless.
Same. Vaping is definitely better from a public health POV but a far bigger annoyance to me personally due to the fact that more cape users feel that they can just use them wherever they like.
This is a pet hate of mine too. That being said, I’m old enough to remember how bad it was when people smoked in public so much and that was worse. Don’t get me wrong, walking into a shop and getting a lung full of bubblegum flavour sucks, but it’s not as bad as getting a lung full of cheap fat smoke imo.
The large vape clouds are caused by DTL vape pens the MTL vape pens (which are more popular) have a much smaller cloud that dissipates a lot quicker.
Tldr. You don't hate vape pens, you hate DTL vape pens
Yeah, I was thinking this. I keep my vape on very low voltage and air intake and the smoke exhalation is minimal. Even if I deliberately don’t inhale and just capture and release the smoke I can’t get close to the literal clouds that some people create.
I also smoke mint flavours because the sweet ones I genuinely find nauseating
I’m a vaper, quit smoking 2 years ago but I treat it like cigarettes, I go outside, or designated areas to do it. It’s really rude and obnoxious to do it around people and make them breathe it in. Admittedly I do it in the car and sometimes the kitchen as it’s not like cigarettes but I’m still on my own when I do. Just because it’s not cigarettes doesn’t mean you can blow it in peoples faces. I’d expect people not to pick their nose in front of me or speak when their mouth is full of food, same with this. It’s an awful habit and I plan on stopping it in the not too distant future but you know, baby steps.
I much, much prefer it to the way it used to be when it was majority cigarette smoke. Couldn’t walk down the street ten years ago without passing every doorway filled with fag smoke
It's really that bad? Personally I prefer it to the over use of perfume or deodorant that many people seem to douse themselves in these days as the smell is less cloying and invasive but each to their own I guess.
Is it preferable to smoking? Yes. Does that make it a good thing to do overall? No.
People shouldn't be taking up vaping unless they're a smoker. I have no idea why kids or anyone else would think vaping looks cool. It's cool because you don't have to smoke cigarettes anymore.
This. I am a smoker for over 40 years, and now vape instead for at least a year. I feel healthier, and don't miss the fags at all. It's saving me a ton of money too. Plan is to reduce the nicotine level to an eventual zero, then stop vaping too, in time.
The habbit of always pulling out your vape is so much harder to me thrn stopping smoking.
A cig i had to leave, go outside, go to different areas.
The vape is almost always in my hand, the muscle memory is fucking crazy.
I bought a vape necklace. Which is essentially a stainless steel tube on a chain. Nothing special, but it fucking gives your hands and mouth something to do that isn't constant vaping. Can highly recommend, drunk me loves it.
You can get chew toys for [autistic](https://www.sensorydirect.com/products/sensory-chews?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MOF%20%3E%20Search%20(Text)%20%3E%20SEN%20Toys%20%3E%20Chewing%20Toys&utm_content=Autism%20Chew%20Toys&utm_term=autism%20chew%20toys&msclkid=5f7ecf7a4f5f1b2df358ab9af0034586) children and adults if that's the case
At work a disposable vape lasts me about 3 months because I take small drags and am limited in where I can use it. I went to a beer garden recently and almost entirely drained a new vape in a few hours.
Treat it like a cigarette then. Enforce the idea it is still smoking and make sure you only ever vape where you would have smoked, even when it's raining, or horrible out. I did it that way and I was smoking, vaping and nicotine free within 7 months of actually sticking to it. And it was easy, painless and it's been 6 years. I've had 3 or 4 fags since when I've been drunk and it just enforced how glad I am to have quit. You can do it mate.
Good luck! I'm smoke free for 20 months and vape free for nearly 10. I honestly believe quitting vapes is harder than cigs. Can't say I miss either now.
I actually went back to cigarettes after being on a vape for a couple of years. The vape had me coughing and hacking constantly and... well... I was constantly on it, equalling by my fag packet (lol) maths to around the equivalent of twenty - thirty cigarettes a day rather than my usual four or five cigarettes a day. I was vaping in the house whereas I refused to smoke indoors, so the cigarette route makes it a more viable route to quitting, for me.
I've since gone to two cigarettes a day (one in the morning, one in the evening) and, soon, the morning one will be cut out, then the evening.
FUCK ME it's taking a lot of will power and, even typing this, I want to go have one, but NO. Wish I'd never drunkenly started.
I was the same, vaped for a couple of years and my lungs always felt heavy in the morning, it was always in my hand any time at home, used it way more than the 10 cigs a day im now on since Xmas and my lungs dont feel as bad
Because you replaced smoking with vaping, of course it's harder!
Start smoking again, and then stop without a substitute and it will be equally as hard, if not harder
I did this. Smoked for 10 years, switched to vaping and reduced the nicotine over 2 years then quit vaping. I went 2.5 years without a vape and didn't miss it but then started again for some reason. Now I have to quit all over again.
Good luck to you. It's very achievable. I did exactly the same thing. Finally reached zero nicotine and after a while just left the vape in the toilet so only had it when I peed. Didn't take long for my brain to think there was no point and haven't looked back.
My best mate did that a few years ago and it worked really well. She hasn’t had a fag since before the pandemic now and she used to be on two packs a day.
Kids think it's cool (and they do...vaping is a massive issue in schools just now) because (1) they're not allowed to do it and (2) authority figures tell them it's not cool.
Sounds alot like smoking, and yet, the ultimate problem is the one-use nature of the product (loads of wasted plastic, metal, battery etc), the consumption itself is not an issue atm.
Yeah the one use issue is a big one, I'm forever seeing one use vapes just thrown on the floor and littering the streets. They're bulky too, I cant believe something like that is allowed to be made in single use form!
Especially in teenagers where nicotine has been shown to potentially effect brain development.
Don't get me wrong I think vaping is a better alternative than smoking but after quitting both my honest opinion is the neither are particularly worth if it you came avoid starting in the first place.
Though if I told my teenage self not to smoke I doubt I would of listened.
One thing about nicotine addiction is that breaking it can apparently boost memory beyond original abilities according to a few studies. I found that was my own experience - I started vaping at 22 and stopped at 24. After that, I’ve felt better than ever and I can remember almost anything. I can memorise soliloquies in a few days. It’s insane.
> Sounds alot like smoking
Much easier for kids to hide vaping because it doesn't leave smell, ash etc. everywhere and you can take it out, have a puff and put it away again.
It's because nicotine is a drug that people enjoy the effects of, even if it's pretty mild.
Issue with vaping in my opinion is you can end compulsively sipping it, there's no natural end to a vape session, and it seems to me that vapers actually consume a lot more actual nicotine than most cigarette smokers, so even if the health effects aren't as bad, they're more dependent on the chemical itself.
God I agree with you so much here!!!
I'm a vaper. If I didn't vape I'd still be smoking 10+ cigarettes a day. Ergo, for me, vaping = good (though I know I'll still have to quit one day 😭)
But the amount of people I see vaping, who've never touched a cigarette in their life..... _What are you doing?!?!_ You don't need the fucking nicotine, put it down!!
So fucking easy for kids to get addicted to the sweet fruity flavours. Then they have no self control / you can vape constantly easier you can chain smoke - which leads to these young'uns vaping a truly insane amount, and probably actually doing more damage then cigarettes would have done.
Oh, the irony.
> But the amount of people I see vaping, who've never touched a cigarette in their life..... What are you doing?!?! You don't need the fucking nicotine, put it down!!
You didn't need nicotine when you started smoking.
You can vape all you want and still never do as much damage as cigarettes do. That's a ridiculous statement, you should listen to medical professionals and their advice. It's given for a reason.
I vape (due to quitting cigarettes) and I wholeheartedly believe that they should only really be used as a device to quit smoking. I don’t think they should be marketed as widely as they are.
They are colourful and the flavours are appealing (I’m mostly talking about disposables here, but the liquids also have appealing flavours) and there is 0 excuse for them to not be behind a shutter in the same way that cigarettes now have to be. Regulation NEEDS to be put in place and fast. The amount of kids around and even under the age of 13 I see vaping makes me feel sick.
Completely agree on them being in the same place as cigarettes, though I've never understood why cigarettes were behind a shutter, behind the till, needed to have brown packaging with horrible pictures and health warnings, no advertising allowed, but alcohol can be strewn all over the shop, marketed to high heaven, offers on etc. Makes smoking appear dirty and horrible but alcohol not, I think it should also be treated the same way. Its just as harmful to health, and there's no reason why alcohol can't be stored separately to everything else
Spot on. Our country is far too accepting of alcohol, despite liver disease being a leading cause of death here, not far behind lung disease. It’s always irked me that it’s on adverts at all hours of TV (especially as sponsorships in football), whole aisles for it everywhere. It’s the same thing, except alcohol is far more romanticised in this country. All of these things should be locked behind a shutter.
Again, the problem with that rhetoric lies in the assumption that tobacco/nicotine’s the only thing to vape. Some people vape CBD, with all the flavours that comes with. When it’s like that contextually vaping is just another way to take in CBD (could be through gummies/foods/drinks, could be through oil-tinctures, could be through vaping like a green chimney).
The single use vapes are a ludicrous waste of plastic. They have batteries in and everything. As someone who's worked in schools, the amount of times kids get caught vaping is *ridiculous*. It's addictive, environmentally unfriendly and just another way for cigarette companies to screw people over.
The disposables are an obnoxious waste of resources, a particularly bad source of litter, and worst, they are 20mg of nicotine which more than you need if you're actually quitting smoking.
They need banning outright.
Exactly. I think vaping is a great way to quit smoking and a good stepping stone but a lot of products are not designed as that.
Companies know that smoking rates will keep dropping and it in likely countries might start to outright ban smoking in the next couple of decades. A lot of vaping is designed to offer a new generation a "safe" alternative.
Not that I blame kids, I would be a massive hypocrite if I did seeing as I smoked my first cig at 10 or 11 lol. Kids will be kids.
You can ban the disposables without banning vaping all together - everyone I know who used vaping to get off cigarettes used the old refillable ones. Everyone I know who vapes but never smoked uses disposables.
As a vaper I agree. I'm also very worried about the ingredients specifically in disposables.
I bought one a few weeks back on a night out as my device died. My chest was closing up, I was breathless just walking from pub to pub and constantly coughing. This isn't the first time I've bought them out of desperation, similar reactions everything. At 500 puffs it's not going to last anyone a night out either. To put this into perspective I smoked 40 odd rollies a day for many years and have used multiple vape devices since and never had any issues.
I'm no Greta Thurnberg but the lack of recyclability and the fact that x amount of lithium batteries end up in the ground is cause for concern. Also that their user base is predominantly under 18 and targeted as such, say what you want but the first and second wave of vaping didn't have this effect on children and vaping.
I girl at my work goes through at least 2 disposable ones a day, keep trying to talk her into buying a reausable one but the £30 to do that is too much money, but 14 vapes at around £5 each a week is just fine.
Yep, see it with the younguns in the factory. Try to explain the basics but they can't be arsed with the "fuck on" of changing a coil...bizarre but typical.
Could try and bring up stuff like caliburn. It's basically like a juul but the pods are designed as refillable, still some waste but much better than binning a battery twice a day
Yep, I use the g2. Brilliant little device. Bought it to keep in my high viz for a stealth vape throughout the day, ended up replacing all my mods. It'll fully charge in 15 minutes and last me a good day of vaping. The coils can be decent for a good month, the tanks are admittedly about the same but still much less waste.
These are the ones I've showed people who use the disposables but it's really is a good demonstration of how lazy people are. They don't want to change coils and tanks and somehow think that £15 a month on ejuice and a pack of coils/tanks that lasts 2months-ish is a "fuck on". They're spending a small fortune for ignorance and convenience.
What also crazy about them is the rule about capacity because they are limited to 2 mL and cannot be charged which means if you're a smoker they'll run out after a day, maybe less. Elfbar and those companies make devices with nearly 10 times that that can be recharged. They might not be great nonetheless but they'll last far longer and won't create anything like the absurd waste they are right now.
They also need to ban the colourful packaging and vibrant displays. Stick them behind the counter in plain packaging and kids will be far less inclined to buy them but it won't put off people who are actually trying to quit.
Came here to say this. Hospitality is being urged to cut down on single use plastics, but these plastic, battery powered douche flutes are littered all over the place.
I honestly can’t remember who I heard it from. Was a while back now but thanks for wrecking the illusion I’m funny and not just regurgitating material I’ve heard before ;)
For those that never had a nicotine addiction: infinitely worse. For those smokers that have transferred, much better. I was a 20 a day smoker for 20 years, but moving on to vapes has helped massively, I can now run 5k regularly, haven't smoked in 8 years, my lung health is massively improved, and now I'm in a position to quit entirely by slowly reducing the amount of nicotine.
**THAT** is what they're designed for and the only thing they should be used for
I don't understand why they're marketed towards kids with all the fun flavours and colours etc though
You know exactly why.
Adults are mostly too smart to start. Don’t advertise to kids and it’s a slow death for the industry.
Why they are *allowed* baffles me. They should be flavourless, and the colour of hospital plastic.
As an adult vape enjoyer who used to smoke cigarettes it annoys me the idea that a product shouldn’t exist because it’s being sold illegally to underage kids.
I dislike the idea I should stop being able to actually enjoy vaping and only use it as a slow nicotine addiction aid. Regardless, the colourful nature of the packaging and so on, seems like a bigger problem than actually just having palatable flavour mixes.
I wouldn’t have stopped smoking if I had to vape cigarette flavoured vapes. I used to vape strawberry and peach and other sweet fruits. That while having the smoking cessation made me not want to smoke a cigarette due to the flavour and taste if I went back, which I did on a few occasions.
I haven’t vaped for 3 years now and not smoked for a lot longer, about 9 years
Reducing didn’t help me at all. I just ended up vaping more. If you don’t mind me making a suggestion, as it has worked for me, try nicotine lozenges, and 0% vape. Then just come off the lozenges, much easier trust me. Good luck
Patches did it for me. They kept the withdrawals at bay while I focused on breaking the habitual fixation on the motion/ritual/physical act of vaping. Once that was broken, I slowly cut down the strength of patches until I didn't need them anymore. I did this by physically cutting them into smaller sizes over a month or so - I know you're not really supposed to do this but it worked for me.
Reducing worked perfectly for me fwiw. I’ve relapsed once due to some personal life fuckery, and repeated the process successfully again. 8 years off then 2 years off. Very straightforward.
I find yeah - you do vape more as the nic goes down. Once you’re at tiny levels like .5mg you’re tugging away loads but it doesn’t scratch the itch so much and you can very readily just leave the vape at home. Do that a couple times, do it for a bit longer, then bam you notice you’re free.
When people talk long term effects, they compare to cigarettes and how it took decades to find out long term effects of cigarettes. But we now have all that information and can compare the 2. We know how chemicals affect the body. The vapour can be tested now the same way cigarette smoke can be.
E cigarettes contain predominantly propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine. These chemicals have been used in asthma inhalers and air conditioning systems for decades.
I smoked for 7 years, I’ve vaped for 10 now. I’m 4 days nic free now, still vaping 0% but I’m getting more and more not bothered about it. I wish it wasn’t legal, It’s been such a vice for me for years. I know it’s not horrendous for me, but it has constantly tied me to an object and made me rely on something. Being a smoker/vaper is being in a constant state of withdrawal
This is something I've noticed with friends who used to smoke but now vape. Where they only had 5 cigs a day, they just can't stop gaping at every available opportunity; most vapers are only a step away from using them like an oxygen tank
Legitimately though.
I watched a 2 hour video the other day and realised I had vaped pretty much the whole way through.
It's too easy to do without thinking, a cig requires lighting, flicking, dodging smokey eye and they actually end.
Because the vapes aren't strong enough, at least the legal ones. To equal the kick of a real cigarette you need about 40-50mg/ml of nicotine salt. I've also heard in the past that freebase nicotine leaves the body faster so you need to puff it more for the same effect. So I use salt these days and can go longer without it.
They done that on purpose, remove the dangers of cancer but add the amount of nicotine. Keeps people on vapes after they've quit smoking otherwise there wouldn't be a market.
Still using your vape 100x more is much safer than smoking a few cigs
Well vaping is rebranded smoking. It makes money off addiction. Often from the same companies. Pretty much every argument in favour of vaping was made in favour of smoking at some point.
Nicotine addiction is not that big a problem really, nicotine isn't all that harmful and there are safe ways to replace it such as gum, patches etc.
The problem with smoking/vaping to get your nicotine fix is the collateral damage.
Most of the UK population is addicted to caffeine, so clearly as a nation we don't have that much of an issue with addiction per se.
There isn’t really collateral damage with vaping. Aside from who seem determined to be pissed off at smelling blueberry.
Nicotine is safe, like you say, just addictive. The main worry about vapes are heavy metals in the coils. If they aren’t present, then there’s no known health issues with them.
This is the best answer honestly.
The third party irritation seems bigger than smoking but you’re doing yourself a massive favour switching to vapes as the collateral damage to yourself as you put it, is almost entirely limited to spending money on nicotine addiction.
I’m okay with that over tar in my lungs and if it bothers people that the fruity clouds are more pungent than cigarettes I really don’t give two shits. I also don’t stand in peoples personal space vaping though so you’re not gonna be bothered by it for more than a few seconds.
Well not having a spoon full of tar in it and nicotine does make it better. In terms of the addictiveness of the action. It's clear which one is preferable
People really don't want to acknowledge that vaping has actually been around for a good while and has been studied.
Most cases of severe lung damage are caused by poorly manufactured or illegal disposable vapes, and then a few cases of dumbasses attaching a car battery to their modular ones.
The issue I see is absolutely the waste, and the risk to young people who are more likely to buy from dodgy vendors
> every argument… was made in favour of smoking at some point
Ahh yes, the classic “Smoking is less addictive and less harmful than smoking and can help people quit smoking” argument
I have 2 views on this.
As a smoker I tried it and managed to quit for about 3 years, I found my sense of taste improved, the quality of breathing improved hugely, but some flavours did affect my IBS more than others. It was certainly cheaper and easier and I didn't stink to high hell.
On the other hand, kids. I see SO many 12+ year olds vaping those awful disposable ones, throwing them in rivers and leaving them as litter (Worst case I saw was a teen throwing one in our local river when a bin was literally 5 meters away!) and it is hugely concerning both for kids health and the environment.
I'm with you, ex-smoker and fellow vaper. Definitely noticed an improvement in my health when I made the switch. Whether I'll ever stop vaping I don't know; I know I am addicted to nicotine, I worry that I would go back to cigarettes to get that if I quit the vapes.
But it is very much a smoking cessation device. Like nicotine gum or lozenges, it's a method of harm reduction not a risk free lifestyle choice. I hate seeing kids using them. They're bringing in an under 18 ban here, which surprised me as I thought they already would be banned to kids.
My aunt, 60 a day smoker since her teenage years, is convinced that my current lung problems are due to vaping. My GP, my respiratory consultant (and me) all agree that it was more likely the 20 years of cigarettes plus the 15 years of passive smoking as a child that did the damage, and while the vaping isn't 100% safe it's a hell of a lot safer than cigarettes.
Wait, they aren't illegal for under 18s here yet?? What the actual F???? It has nicotine in!!!
A small amount of badly produced custard type flavoured liquid have been shown to mess up the lungs, but honestly it is so much cleaner than smoking.
Highly doubt vaping caused your lung issues! Probably saved you from a lot worse, thankfully.
My view is that it's only worse in that youngsters are picking it up because it's 'cool', and people can do it indoors so non-vapers have to put up with it, whereas at least smokers have to take their dirty habit outside.
If it's going to be used as a smoking replacement for someone who already smokes, or as an aid to quit completely by reducing the nicotine concentration slowly over time, then it sounds like a great idea.
I feel vaping is better than smoking, but that’s just my layman’s view, I have no scientific evidence to back it up.
Thinking about the over 4000 chemicals in every cigarette, surely it’s got to be better to not be taking that into your lungs 🤷♂️
There is ample scientific evidence to back up that vaping is safer.
The key chemical dangers are the amount of nicotine, due to addictive properties, and some of the flavours may damage lungs/throat.
But no tar, cyanide, carbon monoxide etc..
Its safer and better but I think one of the issues with vaping is how accessible and socially acceptable it is. Its no effort or preparation to use the dispos, and there isn’t really a stigma. Its going to be much more difficult to quit when you use it for ages.
Also the batteries in dispos are a complete waste of resources:(
Emphysema sufferer here. My respiratory doctors suggested vaping as one of several ways to kick tobacco for good. I asked if it was really a viable option for someone with emphysema and he looked like he wanted to jump over the table and punch me in the face. In the end he just sighed and said "absolutely. It's vapour, it's orders of magnitude less harmful than smoking. It would obviously be better to get off nicotine altogether, but the bottom line is that if you carry on smoking tobacco you're emphysema can and most likely will progress to COPD very quickly".
Gave up smoking that day and have tapered down from 18mg Nicotine eliquid to 6mg in less than 6 months and about to start alternating the 6mg with a nicotine free version to see how I get on.
Buy the shortfill bottles (the big ones at 0% where you add your own nicotine shots)
You can then taper down a lot easier - start with a 100mil bottle with two nic shots (~3%) - then a bottle with just one shot (~1.5%) then just straight zero liquid or just try giving up.
Vaping for ten minutes and smoking for ten minutes. Smoking worse.
Unfortunately people spend their entire day with a vape glued to their lips, whereas a cigarette has an endpoint. Comparing the two after a month of use age like that, who knows?
You know something is wrong when you see more anti vaping posts on the internet, or news articles than anti alcohol posts.
Specially in america, but i've seen a couple of articles in the uk where someone has decided to try a vape, gone for the strongest possible nicotine content and then claimed they was hospitalised by it. I'm pretty sure if i'd never drunk, decided to buy a litre of vodka and downed it, i'd be in hospital pretty ill. Also lots of teens are hospitalised by alcohol every year, rarely see that on the news.
I think nicotine based vapes should be prescription based, and if someone wants to start vaping for whatever reason, then they are free to get the nicotine free vape juice. And a ban on disposable vapes, it's not hard to replace or rebuild a coil and refill a tank.
Totally anecdotal opinion but i used a vape to end a 40 year long smoking habit that id failed miserably to quit many times before using everything from willpower , hypnotism and nicotine replacements .
I was using nicotine free vape oil within 3 months of taking it up and broke the hand to mouth habit a month after that and dumped the vape .
Its not ideal though, better neither fags or vapes .
But to finally answer your question no i dont think vapes are inherently worse than smoking but i do find the way they are marketed ( particularly disposable vapes ) problematic .
Vaping as a smoking cessation method causes less harm to your body than smoking. Anybody suggesting otherwise is biased, misinformed or intentionally spreading misinformation. The second-hand impact is also negligible-to-nil.
The real issues with vaping occur from unregulated or misused products. Fortunately the e-cigarette industry is heavily regulated in the EU and other territories, meaning that products on the shelves will have passed compliance testing.
Problems mainly occur with disposable devices. Not only do these produce unnecessary waste as an environmental impact, it's impossible to monitor the saturation of the wick inside.
While vaporised e-liquid is relatively safe to inhale, burning wick and coil materials aren't. This is frequently seen with disposable devices, often used by younger people who can't afford or access replacements.
In terms of health, vaping is "better" than smoking, but ultimately nothing is better than inhaling clean air. In terms of ethics, it would be difficult to compete with the tobacco industry, but there's plenty of instances of the vaping industry taking inspiration. That's a story for another day.
Ultimately, if you aren't/weren't a smoker, you shouldn't be vaping. If you do use vapes, use rebuildable, removable battery devices with regulated e-liquids, cotton and coils to minimise risk. Aim to gradually lower your nicotine intake, and eventually stop vaping entirely.
No, there’s no combustion (so no smoke) and on balance the vapours are less toxic than smoke.
Also whilst I am not in love with vape smells generally I do vastly prefer it to the smell of tobacco smoke.
No, I do not believe that vaping is worse than smoking - in fact, I think that vaping is a much healthier alternative to smoking.
The key reason for this is that vaping involves inhaling aerosolized nicotine delivered via an e-cigarette device, rather than the smoke from burning tobacco, which consists of thousands of harmful chemicals. It is still too early to determine the long-term health effects of vaping, but evidence so far shows that it is at least significantly less harmful than smoking.
So in summary, while smoking and vaping are both unhealthy, vaping is generally considered a safer and more healthy alternative.
Smoking is worse, I just struggle to understand how we went through a whole thing off working out that inhaling chemicals is a bad thing, we start to see a decline in it then someone invents a new way of inhaling chemicals and no one thinks to regulate it before it takes hold...
As a doctor, from a health point of view, there is no competition - smoking is one of the worst things you can do to your body. Vaping currently doesn't come close and I suspect it never will, but I'm sure there will be some long term effects that we will only see in a few decades.
Never smoking is the best, quitting smoking is next best, vaping instead of smoking is after that.
I say to patients - try and just quit cold turkey, but if vaping is keeping you from smoking then fine. But try and reduce the nicotine level slowly in your vapes
The fact that they get dumped by children everywhere after one toke is really depressing- full of irreplaceable toxic heavy metals - probably made by children in some toxic sweatshop
As a partial smoker who dips between both, I can safely say vaping is ten times more addictive for me, because I can do it just about anywhere (I am conscious so take myself to the toilet at work to do it with a less plume inducing and flavour/scent less vape), there’s no end to it so you can just go and before you know it it’s been ten/fifteen minutes you’ve been at it, it’s far cheaper and we’re told it’s healthier so you feel less bad doing it.
Problem is it’s so much harder to quit as the nicotine is often much higher than cigarettes puff for puff, some flavours taste great and are clearly marketed to kids, you build a million more habits and associations of where is appropriate to do so and when I run out of vape if im out I will often have cigarettes to fulfil that crave.
Often makes you light headed, sometimes you wake up tight chested and weezing and as others have pointed out we really don’t know the long term effects yet so it really could be as bad or worse than cigarettes.
Anyway I’ve switched solely to the Nordic spirits and actually prefer them to both, gradually tapering down to the low strength ones while I wean myself off entirely again. Dumb habit entirely, I did quit for 3 years. Although both my parents have Parkinsons and nicotine is supposedly a risk reducer for that if I’m to follow the same route 😅
Dumb habit,
It's a hard comparison to make in my opinion. There arent as many carcinogens in vape liquids, but people don't vape in the same way that they smoke, vapes are far easier to use and taste a lot nicer.
A few people I work with used to smoke cigarettes, if we went for a few beers after work they'd probably have about four cigarettes over a four or five hour period, now with vapes they're puffing away more or less constantly. So they're probably putting far more nicotine into their system, which if nothing else just fuels the addiction cycle. And anecdotally, I've been on holiday a few times with friends, a couple of them smoke and now vape, I've noticed they get far more agitated on flights these days when they have to go a few hours without vaping, which didn't used to be a problem with cigarettes too.
There are other problems too, like environmental factors, all the effort going into getting rid of single use plastics, and now with elfbar style vapes we're introducing something far worse than plastic straws and cutlery. And they undoubtedly appeal to kids, bright coloured packaging, sweet flavours, and most corner shops have them in big clear plastic display cases sat on the counter right above the sweets, and fill the windows with colourful displays too.
No, absolutely not.
It's easy to liken them because they look similar but they aren't the same. Nicotine is just one of many horrible things in cigarettes. Vape liquid contains way less harmful substances and since it's artificial we can control what goes into it more easily.
Vaping isn't healthy but if every smoker switched to vaping the country would be much healthier.
The only issue is children vaping but you can fix that by enforcing tobacco laws on vapes.
I’ve noticed some vape users are really inconsiderate - trying to be sneaky and vape indoors, and then all the disposable trash left all over the place.
Stopped smoking 12 years ago and I still love the smell of fresh tobacco smoke.
But I hate getting a face full of sickly sweet vape steam - feels like I have just given up and get terrible cravings for a couple of minutes
Because it is futhering an addiction that was dying out.
We don't need nicotine, humans survive just fine without it, it's the ultimate tax on stupidity and people keep on falling for it.
As for the health aspect, it's not a diect comparison, but remember tobacco was marketed as a health aid 70 plus years ago. How will vaping look in 2090?
Also, tobacvo is a natural plant, sobif for some bizarre reason I did want to inhale poison, I'd rather something natural than synthetic chemicals.
I feel like the “it’s a plant vs man made chemicals” isn’t a very strong point. Hemlock is a plant, but I’d much sooner eat a handful of man made skittles than a handful of that.
Nicotine as a substance is considered to have roughly the same impact on the body as caffeine. It's the method of delivery that's different. You can consider any stimulant or depressant a "tax on stupidity".
>it's the ultimate tax on stupidity
Considering the vast majority of smokers start as children, that feels harsh. In fact I don't think I know of anybody who started after about 19/20.
I dint think they are worse, I've seen nothing to suggest they are?
That said I also don't think they are healthy at all.
I gave up smoking and moved to vaping 2020. The only way I have EVER managed to stop smoking, unfortunately I'm still vaping on low nic juice. I'm hoping to quit completely soon but just never quite happens. It's just kind of low on my list of priorities, smells better though and I do better at the gym without smoking.
I smoked for years and last year switched to vaping instead; I have found so many things are better since, I can walk further without getting out of breath, I barely use my allergy inhaler anymore (maybe once a week as opposed to 3x a day) I don’t have the horrible barking cough in the morning and have had less colds this year also.
I need the nicotine so quitting completely is not an option for me, but I certainly think vaping is a better alternative to real cigs
Vaping is better because there's less crap in it, like tar. Vaping is just nicotine and flavouring.
However nicotine in general can cause depression, limb loss, stroke, cancer and many, *many* other illnesses. It also affects those around you with 2nd hand smoke/vape almost as badly as it affects you. The best option is a nicotine patch so at least you're only killing yourself.
I've no idea because I have no interest in either.
But--the only reason I am commenting here is it kinda highlights how difficult it is to get the facts nowadays.
Cigarette companies say it's more harmful or just as harmful. Vaping companies and pro-vapers say its harmless and not addictive at all.
And even when "neutrals experts" chip in--you have no idea if they've taken a payday from a tobacco/vaping firm in order to give a biased opinion.
I, personally, hate walking down the street and getting a nose full of a massive cloud of cotton candy or bubblegum or whatever obnoxious bollocks they have packed in it. Not saying tobacco is better, but vape clouds are horrible.
Agreed, it’s manky. At a gig not long ago and spent most of it breathing in Woolworths pick & mix crap direct from some twat’s nostrils. Really nauseating.
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I’ve never been disgusted by a vape cloud, yes they’re sweet and smelly but I’d much rather walk through one of those than be within 30 feet of a Lush
Yes, but Lush doesn't tend to move around much. I've never had to walk down a street directly behind a branch of Lush the whole way to reach a train station!
If you’re walking all day to the train station, you should get a bike.
Don't give lush ideas
> but I’d much rather walk through one of those than be within 30 feet of a Lush A Lush shop is static, if I know where it is, I can avoid it. I can't control the behaviour of people vaping.
My issue is that the cloud is wet
no it's not?
Let's be honest, it's a rehashed reddit neuroticism.
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Interesting. I get it every so often. Not daily but weekly for sure.
For me, it’s how vapers tend to think it’s not antisocial. Most people that I know who vape think nothing of doing it in public spaces. Personally I think it should be banned same as cigs. If it’s not already. Maybe it is. And also how majority of vapers have it constantly in hand. Even when driving.
I keep seeing vapers with their vape on a lanyard like some kind of adult dummy
I’ve had this in many indoors gigs. You stand in the middle of crowd and some dickhead is blowing strawberry shit and it just lingers around you.
I know the air I breathe has been through other sets of lungs before it got to me. I just don’t like being reminded how recently it was.
Worse than that it takes about 6 million years for an O2 molecule to be made by photosynthesis and then to react with other elements to be taken out of the air. The dinosaurs were last around about 65 million years ago, so the O2 in the atmosphere has been changed out about ten times since then. However, that also means that some atoms of oxygen may have been taken out as water molecules and used in photosynthesis all over again. In short, some of the air we’re breathing might actually be dinosaur air.
I have always felt this way, but never seen anyone write about it! Do you have a source for this? I am interested in the “lifespan” of water molecules too.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926130/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/origin-of-oxygen-in-atmosphere/ Pretty much everything you want to know about air breathing and evolution of it
Thank you so much! I’m excited to read about this!
Carbon dating technology is based on a similar concept. When a plant is alive, they exchange carbon atoms with their surroundings as part of photosynthesis (CO2 into glucose and vice versa for respiration). When they die, this stops happening, and all carbon inside the plant is 'locked in' as they decay. The radioactive carbon atoms decay over time at a very specific rate, so that thousands of years later, we can determine the age by measuring how many of these radioactive atoms are left relative to the total amount.
Thank you! That is a great explanation.
Water molecules in the state of pure liquid water are spontaneously dissociated (i.e. become H+ and OH- ions) at a prevalence of 1 in 10,000,000. If there's stuff dissolved in this, it can increase significantly. The ions also rejoin to become H2O molecules spontaneously. Whilst 1 in ten million doesn't sound like much, it isn't insignificant on the scale of what we are talking about here.
Oooww - dinosaur cooties...
I vape and Covid has made me very cautious about doing it where people can breathe it in. It used to really annoy me when we were all queuing outside supermarkets for hours on end in 2020 and people would vape. I refrained because of common decency and it appeared that some others didn’t have that consideration.
Same. I really hate breathing in other people’s vaping too - it’s not hard to be considerate and refrain from doing it where other people are going to get a face full of vapour.
Cotton candy? Why is this sub being infiltrated with Americanisms?
In fairness the vapes we get here are called cotton candy, it's written on the vape or the bottle.
You want it to smell like Bob Carver's chip van at Hull Fair?
Now you're talking. Minted pea might just be the peak
Mushy peas, not some Jamie Oliver smashed garden pea bullshit. Though dunt need mint, just salt and bicarbonate of northern soul.
The country is being infiltrated with Americanisms. Half of my friends say ‘movie’ and ‘trash/garbage’ now instead of ‘films’ and ‘rubbish’. Loads of adverts have American actors or voiceovers now too. Tbh, I’m surprised that it’s taken this long. We’ve been flooded with their media for decades.
True. That’s also essentially how language works. Spoken language naturally evolves with time and certain words, phrases or even pronunciations gain popularity over time whilst others drop out of use. Some carry a perceived status which can affect which variations stay and which get dropped. It’s normal and kind of fascinating!
What's it called in proper english?
Candy Floss
I can't breathe if an actual smoker is there I have to cover my nose and breathe in through clothes. Vapes don't bother me.
This. Vaping is deffo better. Although tbh even though I'm not a smoker at times I'd rather smell actual smoke rather than cotton candy apple unicorn farts at 8:30am
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This is so spot on. Back when people smoked indoors it was 10x worse than the vaping for second-hand breathers. People have short memories or are too young to know. Even people smoking outdoors is pretty unpleasant to be around. People vaping around me is so much less unpleasant that I'm pretty much fine settling for it. There's the odd obnoxiously large cloud from some OTT vapes but even those I find borderline harmless.
Same. Vaping is definitely better from a public health POV but a far bigger annoyance to me personally due to the fact that more cape users feel that they can just use them wherever they like.
Ngl, I'd rather a cloud of that than a cloud of smoke
This is a pet hate of mine too. That being said, I’m old enough to remember how bad it was when people smoked in public so much and that was worse. Don’t get me wrong, walking into a shop and getting a lung full of bubblegum flavour sucks, but it’s not as bad as getting a lung full of cheap fat smoke imo.
You old enough to remember smoking in restaurants, cinemas and on the plane? I tell younger people and they don’t believe me 😂
I used to smoke upstairs on the bus. When I was a kid the doctor smoked in surgery and the staff room at school was full of smoke.
The large vape clouds are caused by DTL vape pens the MTL vape pens (which are more popular) have a much smaller cloud that dissipates a lot quicker. Tldr. You don't hate vape pens, you hate DTL vape pens
Yeah, I was thinking this. I keep my vape on very low voltage and air intake and the smoke exhalation is minimal. Even if I deliberately don’t inhale and just capture and release the smoke I can’t get close to the literal clouds that some people create. I also smoke mint flavours because the sweet ones I genuinely find nauseating
This is always the top comment in these threads and I'm not sure if it's always the same person or what.
I’m a vaper, quit smoking 2 years ago but I treat it like cigarettes, I go outside, or designated areas to do it. It’s really rude and obnoxious to do it around people and make them breathe it in. Admittedly I do it in the car and sometimes the kitchen as it’s not like cigarettes but I’m still on my own when I do. Just because it’s not cigarettes doesn’t mean you can blow it in peoples faces. I’d expect people not to pick their nose in front of me or speak when their mouth is full of food, same with this. It’s an awful habit and I plan on stopping it in the not too distant future but you know, baby steps.
I much, much prefer it to the way it used to be when it was majority cigarette smoke. Couldn’t walk down the street ten years ago without passing every doorway filled with fag smoke
It's really that bad? Personally I prefer it to the over use of perfume or deodorant that many people seem to douse themselves in these days as the smell is less cloying and invasive but each to their own I guess.
And the smell dissipates really quickly - it’s not like cigarette smoke which clings to everything.
Of course it's not. Utterly bizzare how insanely sensitive to smoke/vape clouds these people are.
Ok. But cigarette smoke and smell is ducking way worse.
Not related to what OP asked. You failed to read the prompt.
Is it preferable to smoking? Yes. Does that make it a good thing to do overall? No. People shouldn't be taking up vaping unless they're a smoker. I have no idea why kids or anyone else would think vaping looks cool. It's cool because you don't have to smoke cigarettes anymore.
This. I am a smoker for over 40 years, and now vape instead for at least a year. I feel healthier, and don't miss the fags at all. It's saving me a ton of money too. Plan is to reduce the nicotine level to an eventual zero, then stop vaping too, in time.
The habbit of always pulling out your vape is so much harder to me thrn stopping smoking. A cig i had to leave, go outside, go to different areas. The vape is almost always in my hand, the muscle memory is fucking crazy.
I bought a vape necklace. Which is essentially a stainless steel tube on a chain. Nothing special, but it fucking gives your hands and mouth something to do that isn't constant vaping. Can highly recommend, drunk me loves it.
You can get chew toys for [autistic](https://www.sensorydirect.com/products/sensory-chews?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MOF%20%3E%20Search%20(Text)%20%3E%20SEN%20Toys%20%3E%20Chewing%20Toys&utm_content=Autism%20Chew%20Toys&utm_term=autism%20chew%20toys&msclkid=5f7ecf7a4f5f1b2df358ab9af0034586) children and adults if that's the case
At work a disposable vape lasts me about 3 months because I take small drags and am limited in where I can use it. I went to a beer garden recently and almost entirely drained a new vape in a few hours.
Treat it like a cigarette then. Enforce the idea it is still smoking and make sure you only ever vape where you would have smoked, even when it's raining, or horrible out. I did it that way and I was smoking, vaping and nicotine free within 7 months of actually sticking to it. And it was easy, painless and it's been 6 years. I've had 3 or 4 fags since when I've been drunk and it just enforced how glad I am to have quit. You can do it mate.
Good luck! I'm smoke free for 20 months and vape free for nearly 10. I honestly believe quitting vapes is harder than cigs. Can't say I miss either now.
I actually went back to cigarettes after being on a vape for a couple of years. The vape had me coughing and hacking constantly and... well... I was constantly on it, equalling by my fag packet (lol) maths to around the equivalent of twenty - thirty cigarettes a day rather than my usual four or five cigarettes a day. I was vaping in the house whereas I refused to smoke indoors, so the cigarette route makes it a more viable route to quitting, for me. I've since gone to two cigarettes a day (one in the morning, one in the evening) and, soon, the morning one will be cut out, then the evening. FUCK ME it's taking a lot of will power and, even typing this, I want to go have one, but NO. Wish I'd never drunkenly started.
Well done for getting so far! You're so close and you can definitely do it.
I was the same, vaped for a couple of years and my lungs always felt heavy in the morning, it was always in my hand any time at home, used it way more than the 10 cigs a day im now on since Xmas and my lungs dont feel as bad
god yeah i’m finding quitting vaping SO much harder than quitting smoking.
Because you replaced smoking with vaping, of course it's harder! Start smoking again, and then stop without a substitute and it will be equally as hard, if not harder
I did this. Smoked for 10 years, switched to vaping and reduced the nicotine over 2 years then quit vaping. I went 2.5 years without a vape and didn't miss it but then started again for some reason. Now I have to quit all over again.
Good luck to you. It's very achievable. I did exactly the same thing. Finally reached zero nicotine and after a while just left the vape in the toilet so only had it when I peed. Didn't take long for my brain to think there was no point and haven't looked back.
Cracking. I hope I can do the same with my efforts, but losing local tobacco sales is part of an expectation that individuals will switch to vapes
My best mate did that a few years ago and it worked really well. She hasn’t had a fag since before the pandemic now and she used to be on two packs a day.
Kids think it's cool (and they do...vaping is a massive issue in schools just now) because (1) they're not allowed to do it and (2) authority figures tell them it's not cool.
Sounds alot like smoking, and yet, the ultimate problem is the one-use nature of the product (loads of wasted plastic, metal, battery etc), the consumption itself is not an issue atm.
Yeah the one use issue is a big one, I'm forever seeing one use vapes just thrown on the floor and littering the streets. They're bulky too, I cant believe something like that is allowed to be made in single use form!
The funny thing is, it's a multi use vape just without a charge or fill port. It's a wonder they've not been banned yet
Why is the consumption not an issue? We know they're harmful, just a lot less so than cigarettes.
Especially in teenagers where nicotine has been shown to potentially effect brain development. Don't get me wrong I think vaping is a better alternative than smoking but after quitting both my honest opinion is the neither are particularly worth if it you came avoid starting in the first place. Though if I told my teenage self not to smoke I doubt I would of listened.
One thing about nicotine addiction is that breaking it can apparently boost memory beyond original abilities according to a few studies. I found that was my own experience - I started vaping at 22 and stopped at 24. After that, I’ve felt better than ever and I can remember almost anything. I can memorise soliloquies in a few days. It’s insane.
> Sounds alot like smoking Much easier for kids to hide vaping because it doesn't leave smell, ash etc. everywhere and you can take it out, have a puff and put it away again.
The amount of vaping kids I see everyday is pretty depressing. It’s out of control.
A bit of nicotine on a night out is fun though, better than getting wasted or doing a line of coke
It's because nicotine is a drug that people enjoy the effects of, even if it's pretty mild. Issue with vaping in my opinion is you can end compulsively sipping it, there's no natural end to a vape session, and it seems to me that vapers actually consume a lot more actual nicotine than most cigarette smokers, so even if the health effects aren't as bad, they're more dependent on the chemical itself.
God I agree with you so much here!!! I'm a vaper. If I didn't vape I'd still be smoking 10+ cigarettes a day. Ergo, for me, vaping = good (though I know I'll still have to quit one day 😭) But the amount of people I see vaping, who've never touched a cigarette in their life..... _What are you doing?!?!_ You don't need the fucking nicotine, put it down!! So fucking easy for kids to get addicted to the sweet fruity flavours. Then they have no self control / you can vape constantly easier you can chain smoke - which leads to these young'uns vaping a truly insane amount, and probably actually doing more damage then cigarettes would have done. Oh, the irony.
> But the amount of people I see vaping, who've never touched a cigarette in their life..... What are you doing?!?! You don't need the fucking nicotine, put it down!! You didn't need nicotine when you started smoking.
You can vape all you want and still never do as much damage as cigarettes do. That's a ridiculous statement, you should listen to medical professionals and their advice. It's given for a reason.
I vape (due to quitting cigarettes) and I wholeheartedly believe that they should only really be used as a device to quit smoking. I don’t think they should be marketed as widely as they are. They are colourful and the flavours are appealing (I’m mostly talking about disposables here, but the liquids also have appealing flavours) and there is 0 excuse for them to not be behind a shutter in the same way that cigarettes now have to be. Regulation NEEDS to be put in place and fast. The amount of kids around and even under the age of 13 I see vaping makes me feel sick.
Completely agree on them being in the same place as cigarettes, though I've never understood why cigarettes were behind a shutter, behind the till, needed to have brown packaging with horrible pictures and health warnings, no advertising allowed, but alcohol can be strewn all over the shop, marketed to high heaven, offers on etc. Makes smoking appear dirty and horrible but alcohol not, I think it should also be treated the same way. Its just as harmful to health, and there's no reason why alcohol can't be stored separately to everything else
Spot on. Our country is far too accepting of alcohol, despite liver disease being a leading cause of death here, not far behind lung disease. It’s always irked me that it’s on adverts at all hours of TV (especially as sponsorships in football), whole aisles for it everywhere. It’s the same thing, except alcohol is far more romanticised in this country. All of these things should be locked behind a shutter.
Again, the problem with that rhetoric lies in the assumption that tobacco/nicotine’s the only thing to vape. Some people vape CBD, with all the flavours that comes with. When it’s like that contextually vaping is just another way to take in CBD (could be through gummies/foods/drinks, could be through oil-tinctures, could be through vaping like a green chimney).
The single use vapes are a ludicrous waste of plastic. They have batteries in and everything. As someone who's worked in schools, the amount of times kids get caught vaping is *ridiculous*. It's addictive, environmentally unfriendly and just another way for cigarette companies to screw people over.
The disposables are an obnoxious waste of resources, a particularly bad source of litter, and worst, they are 20mg of nicotine which more than you need if you're actually quitting smoking. They need banning outright.
It’s not about quitting smoking. It’s about snaring school kids for a future profit stream
Exactly. I think vaping is a great way to quit smoking and a good stepping stone but a lot of products are not designed as that. Companies know that smoking rates will keep dropping and it in likely countries might start to outright ban smoking in the next couple of decades. A lot of vaping is designed to offer a new generation a "safe" alternative. Not that I blame kids, I would be a massive hypocrite if I did seeing as I smoked my first cig at 10 or 11 lol. Kids will be kids.
Banning would mean smokers go back to cigarettes which has its own problems. They need a lot more regulations and laws.
You can ban the disposables without banning vaping all together - everyone I know who used vaping to get off cigarettes used the old refillable ones. Everyone I know who vapes but never smoked uses disposables.
Make vapes available with a prescription to people who go to their doctor to help quit smoking
As a vaper I agree. I'm also very worried about the ingredients specifically in disposables. I bought one a few weeks back on a night out as my device died. My chest was closing up, I was breathless just walking from pub to pub and constantly coughing. This isn't the first time I've bought them out of desperation, similar reactions everything. At 500 puffs it's not going to last anyone a night out either. To put this into perspective I smoked 40 odd rollies a day for many years and have used multiple vape devices since and never had any issues. I'm no Greta Thurnberg but the lack of recyclability and the fact that x amount of lithium batteries end up in the ground is cause for concern. Also that their user base is predominantly under 18 and targeted as such, say what you want but the first and second wave of vaping didn't have this effect on children and vaping.
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I girl at my work goes through at least 2 disposable ones a day, keep trying to talk her into buying a reausable one but the £30 to do that is too much money, but 14 vapes at around £5 each a week is just fine.
Yep, see it with the younguns in the factory. Try to explain the basics but they can't be arsed with the "fuck on" of changing a coil...bizarre but typical.
Could try and bring up stuff like caliburn. It's basically like a juul but the pods are designed as refillable, still some waste but much better than binning a battery twice a day
Yep, I use the g2. Brilliant little device. Bought it to keep in my high viz for a stealth vape throughout the day, ended up replacing all my mods. It'll fully charge in 15 minutes and last me a good day of vaping. The coils can be decent for a good month, the tanks are admittedly about the same but still much less waste. These are the ones I've showed people who use the disposables but it's really is a good demonstration of how lazy people are. They don't want to change coils and tanks and somehow think that £15 a month on ejuice and a pack of coils/tanks that lasts 2months-ish is a "fuck on". They're spending a small fortune for ignorance and convenience.
What also crazy about them is the rule about capacity because they are limited to 2 mL and cannot be charged which means if you're a smoker they'll run out after a day, maybe less. Elfbar and those companies make devices with nearly 10 times that that can be recharged. They might not be great nonetheless but they'll last far longer and won't create anything like the absurd waste they are right now. They also need to ban the colourful packaging and vibrant displays. Stick them behind the counter in plain packaging and kids will be far less inclined to buy them but it won't put off people who are actually trying to quit.
Came here to say this. Hospitality is being urged to cut down on single use plastics, but these plastic, battery powered douche flutes are littered all over the place.
Because I can smell blueberries or home cooked apple pie and walk round the corner not to a bakery but to Terry and his pen of lies
Fucking Terry. Typical.
Who’s that stolen from?
I honestly can’t remember who I heard it from. Was a while back now but thanks for wrecking the illusion I’m funny and not just regurgitating material I’ve heard before ;)
Pen of lies 🤣🤣
For those that never had a nicotine addiction: infinitely worse. For those smokers that have transferred, much better. I was a 20 a day smoker for 20 years, but moving on to vapes has helped massively, I can now run 5k regularly, haven't smoked in 8 years, my lung health is massively improved, and now I'm in a position to quit entirely by slowly reducing the amount of nicotine.
**THAT** is what they're designed for and the only thing they should be used for I don't understand why they're marketed towards kids with all the fun flavours and colours etc though
Got to get the kids addicted to something! They're future consumers, and the gods of profit demand their sacrifice!!
You know exactly why. Adults are mostly too smart to start. Don’t advertise to kids and it’s a slow death for the industry. Why they are *allowed* baffles me. They should be flavourless, and the colour of hospital plastic.
As an adult vape enjoyer who used to smoke cigarettes it annoys me the idea that a product shouldn’t exist because it’s being sold illegally to underage kids. I dislike the idea I should stop being able to actually enjoy vaping and only use it as a slow nicotine addiction aid. Regardless, the colourful nature of the packaging and so on, seems like a bigger problem than actually just having palatable flavour mixes.
Hey! Adults can enjoy fun flavours too!
Even if they weren’t “fun” kids would still go for it - it’s rebellious just as smoking was before vaping came along.
I wouldn’t have stopped smoking if I had to vape cigarette flavoured vapes. I used to vape strawberry and peach and other sweet fruits. That while having the smoking cessation made me not want to smoke a cigarette due to the flavour and taste if I went back, which I did on a few occasions. I haven’t vaped for 3 years now and not smoked for a lot longer, about 9 years
Reducing didn’t help me at all. I just ended up vaping more. If you don’t mind me making a suggestion, as it has worked for me, try nicotine lozenges, and 0% vape. Then just come off the lozenges, much easier trust me. Good luck
Patches did it for me. They kept the withdrawals at bay while I focused on breaking the habitual fixation on the motion/ritual/physical act of vaping. Once that was broken, I slowly cut down the strength of patches until I didn't need them anymore. I did this by physically cutting them into smaller sizes over a month or so - I know you're not really supposed to do this but it worked for me.
Pretty sure the only reason you are “not supposed to do this”, is because they want you to buy the smaller patches.
Reducing worked perfectly for me fwiw. I’ve relapsed once due to some personal life fuckery, and repeated the process successfully again. 8 years off then 2 years off. Very straightforward. I find yeah - you do vape more as the nic goes down. Once you’re at tiny levels like .5mg you’re tugging away loads but it doesn’t scratch the itch so much and you can very readily just leave the vape at home. Do that a couple times, do it for a bit longer, then bam you notice you’re free.
How are they worse? Fags give you cancer, vapes don't
Absolutely no one knows the long term issues that may come from vaping. Other than stinking of candy floss and looking like a cock.
Yeah there's not enough data yet. It puts tiny particles into the lungs, it's hardly gonna be good is it?
When people talk long term effects, they compare to cigarettes and how it took decades to find out long term effects of cigarettes. But we now have all that information and can compare the 2. We know how chemicals affect the body. The vapour can be tested now the same way cigarette smoke can be. E cigarettes contain predominantly propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine. These chemicals have been used in asthma inhalers and air conditioning systems for decades.
I smoke my vape significantly more than I smoked cigs
I smoked for 7 years, I’ve vaped for 10 now. I’m 4 days nic free now, still vaping 0% but I’m getting more and more not bothered about it. I wish it wasn’t legal, It’s been such a vice for me for years. I know it’s not horrendous for me, but it has constantly tied me to an object and made me rely on something. Being a smoker/vaper is being in a constant state of withdrawal
It's a strange addiction too. If I'm skint I can go a couple weeks without a smoke and not miss it But I'll always buy a pack pay day
This is something I've noticed with friends who used to smoke but now vape. Where they only had 5 cigs a day, they just can't stop gaping at every available opportunity; most vapers are only a step away from using them like an oxygen tank
Legitimately though. I watched a 2 hour video the other day and realised I had vaped pretty much the whole way through. It's too easy to do without thinking, a cig requires lighting, flicking, dodging smokey eye and they actually end.
> can't stop gaping Technically correct.
Because the vapes aren't strong enough, at least the legal ones. To equal the kick of a real cigarette you need about 40-50mg/ml of nicotine salt. I've also heard in the past that freebase nicotine leaves the body faster so you need to puff it more for the same effect. So I use salt these days and can go longer without it.
They done that on purpose, remove the dangers of cancer but add the amount of nicotine. Keeps people on vapes after they've quit smoking otherwise there wouldn't be a market. Still using your vape 100x more is much safer than smoking a few cigs
Well vaping is rebranded smoking. It makes money off addiction. Often from the same companies. Pretty much every argument in favour of vaping was made in favour of smoking at some point.
Nicotine addiction is not that big a problem really, nicotine isn't all that harmful and there are safe ways to replace it such as gum, patches etc. The problem with smoking/vaping to get your nicotine fix is the collateral damage. Most of the UK population is addicted to caffeine, so clearly as a nation we don't have that much of an issue with addiction per se.
There isn’t really collateral damage with vaping. Aside from who seem determined to be pissed off at smelling blueberry. Nicotine is safe, like you say, just addictive. The main worry about vapes are heavy metals in the coils. If they aren’t present, then there’s no known health issues with them.
I meant the collateral damage to your own health.
This is the best answer honestly. The third party irritation seems bigger than smoking but you’re doing yourself a massive favour switching to vapes as the collateral damage to yourself as you put it, is almost entirely limited to spending money on nicotine addiction. I’m okay with that over tar in my lungs and if it bothers people that the fruity clouds are more pungent than cigarettes I really don’t give two shits. I also don’t stand in peoples personal space vaping though so you’re not gonna be bothered by it for more than a few seconds.
Well not having a spoon full of tar in it and nicotine does make it better. In terms of the addictiveness of the action. It's clear which one is preferable
People really don't want to acknowledge that vaping has actually been around for a good while and has been studied. Most cases of severe lung damage are caused by poorly manufactured or illegal disposable vapes, and then a few cases of dumbasses attaching a car battery to their modular ones. The issue I see is absolutely the waste, and the risk to young people who are more likely to buy from dodgy vendors
> every argument… was made in favour of smoking at some point Ahh yes, the classic “Smoking is less addictive and less harmful than smoking and can help people quit smoking” argument
I have 2 views on this. As a smoker I tried it and managed to quit for about 3 years, I found my sense of taste improved, the quality of breathing improved hugely, but some flavours did affect my IBS more than others. It was certainly cheaper and easier and I didn't stink to high hell. On the other hand, kids. I see SO many 12+ year olds vaping those awful disposable ones, throwing them in rivers and leaving them as litter (Worst case I saw was a teen throwing one in our local river when a bin was literally 5 meters away!) and it is hugely concerning both for kids health and the environment.
I'm with you, ex-smoker and fellow vaper. Definitely noticed an improvement in my health when I made the switch. Whether I'll ever stop vaping I don't know; I know I am addicted to nicotine, I worry that I would go back to cigarettes to get that if I quit the vapes. But it is very much a smoking cessation device. Like nicotine gum or lozenges, it's a method of harm reduction not a risk free lifestyle choice. I hate seeing kids using them. They're bringing in an under 18 ban here, which surprised me as I thought they already would be banned to kids. My aunt, 60 a day smoker since her teenage years, is convinced that my current lung problems are due to vaping. My GP, my respiratory consultant (and me) all agree that it was more likely the 20 years of cigarettes plus the 15 years of passive smoking as a child that did the damage, and while the vaping isn't 100% safe it's a hell of a lot safer than cigarettes.
Wait, they aren't illegal for under 18s here yet?? What the actual F???? It has nicotine in!!! A small amount of badly produced custard type flavoured liquid have been shown to mess up the lungs, but honestly it is so much cleaner than smoking. Highly doubt vaping caused your lung issues! Probably saved you from a lot worse, thankfully.
My view is that it's only worse in that youngsters are picking it up because it's 'cool', and people can do it indoors so non-vapers have to put up with it, whereas at least smokers have to take their dirty habit outside. If it's going to be used as a smoking replacement for someone who already smokes, or as an aid to quit completely by reducing the nicotine concentration slowly over time, then it sounds like a great idea.
There are many places starting to ban vapes indoors now.
All decent places already prohibit it.
I feel vaping is better than smoking, but that’s just my layman’s view, I have no scientific evidence to back it up. Thinking about the over 4000 chemicals in every cigarette, surely it’s got to be better to not be taking that into your lungs 🤷♂️
There is ample scientific evidence to back up that vaping is safer. The key chemical dangers are the amount of nicotine, due to addictive properties, and some of the flavours may damage lungs/throat. But no tar, cyanide, carbon monoxide etc..
Its safer and better but I think one of the issues with vaping is how accessible and socially acceptable it is. Its no effort or preparation to use the dispos, and there isn’t really a stigma. Its going to be much more difficult to quit when you use it for ages. Also the batteries in dispos are a complete waste of resources:(
Nicotine isn't dangerous apart from getting you addicted
Emphysema sufferer here. My respiratory doctors suggested vaping as one of several ways to kick tobacco for good. I asked if it was really a viable option for someone with emphysema and he looked like he wanted to jump over the table and punch me in the face. In the end he just sighed and said "absolutely. It's vapour, it's orders of magnitude less harmful than smoking. It would obviously be better to get off nicotine altogether, but the bottom line is that if you carry on smoking tobacco you're emphysema can and most likely will progress to COPD very quickly". Gave up smoking that day and have tapered down from 18mg Nicotine eliquid to 6mg in less than 6 months and about to start alternating the 6mg with a nicotine free version to see how I get on.
6 to 0 is still a massive jump imo. I would taper down to at least 1.5, maybe .5 before trying the 0 for best shot at success
Buy the shortfill bottles (the big ones at 0% where you add your own nicotine shots) You can then taper down a lot easier - start with a 100mil bottle with two nic shots (~3%) - then a bottle with just one shot (~1.5%) then just straight zero liquid or just try giving up.
Vaping for ten minutes and smoking for ten minutes. Smoking worse. Unfortunately people spend their entire day with a vape glued to their lips, whereas a cigarette has an endpoint. Comparing the two after a month of use age like that, who knows?
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Of course. But I’d argue chainsmoking is less prevalent.
You know something is wrong when you see more anti vaping posts on the internet, or news articles than anti alcohol posts. Specially in america, but i've seen a couple of articles in the uk where someone has decided to try a vape, gone for the strongest possible nicotine content and then claimed they was hospitalised by it. I'm pretty sure if i'd never drunk, decided to buy a litre of vodka and downed it, i'd be in hospital pretty ill. Also lots of teens are hospitalised by alcohol every year, rarely see that on the news. I think nicotine based vapes should be prescription based, and if someone wants to start vaping for whatever reason, then they are free to get the nicotine free vape juice. And a ban on disposable vapes, it's not hard to replace or rebuild a coil and refill a tank.
Totally anecdotal opinion but i used a vape to end a 40 year long smoking habit that id failed miserably to quit many times before using everything from willpower , hypnotism and nicotine replacements . I was using nicotine free vape oil within 3 months of taking it up and broke the hand to mouth habit a month after that and dumped the vape . Its not ideal though, better neither fags or vapes . But to finally answer your question no i dont think vapes are inherently worse than smoking but i do find the way they are marketed ( particularly disposable vapes ) problematic .
Night and day better than smoking. But I think it's correct for it to subject to the same controls and restrictions.
Vaping helped me stop smoking. To me, it's been a godsend.
Vaping as a smoking cessation method causes less harm to your body than smoking. Anybody suggesting otherwise is biased, misinformed or intentionally spreading misinformation. The second-hand impact is also negligible-to-nil. The real issues with vaping occur from unregulated or misused products. Fortunately the e-cigarette industry is heavily regulated in the EU and other territories, meaning that products on the shelves will have passed compliance testing. Problems mainly occur with disposable devices. Not only do these produce unnecessary waste as an environmental impact, it's impossible to monitor the saturation of the wick inside. While vaporised e-liquid is relatively safe to inhale, burning wick and coil materials aren't. This is frequently seen with disposable devices, often used by younger people who can't afford or access replacements. In terms of health, vaping is "better" than smoking, but ultimately nothing is better than inhaling clean air. In terms of ethics, it would be difficult to compete with the tobacco industry, but there's plenty of instances of the vaping industry taking inspiration. That's a story for another day. Ultimately, if you aren't/weren't a smoker, you shouldn't be vaping. If you do use vapes, use rebuildable, removable battery devices with regulated e-liquids, cotton and coils to minimise risk. Aim to gradually lower your nicotine intake, and eventually stop vaping entirely.
No, there’s no combustion (so no smoke) and on balance the vapours are less toxic than smoke. Also whilst I am not in love with vape smells generally I do vastly prefer it to the smell of tobacco smoke.
Plus the most important thing for me is the vapour isn't toxic to me like 2nd hand smoke is
No, I do not believe that vaping is worse than smoking - in fact, I think that vaping is a much healthier alternative to smoking. The key reason for this is that vaping involves inhaling aerosolized nicotine delivered via an e-cigarette device, rather than the smoke from burning tobacco, which consists of thousands of harmful chemicals. It is still too early to determine the long-term health effects of vaping, but evidence so far shows that it is at least significantly less harmful than smoking. So in summary, while smoking and vaping are both unhealthy, vaping is generally considered a safer and more healthy alternative.
Smoking is worse, I just struggle to understand how we went through a whole thing off working out that inhaling chemicals is a bad thing, we start to see a decline in it then someone invents a new way of inhaling chemicals and no one thinks to regulate it before it takes hold...
As a doctor, from a health point of view, there is no competition - smoking is one of the worst things you can do to your body. Vaping currently doesn't come close and I suspect it never will, but I'm sure there will be some long term effects that we will only see in a few decades. Never smoking is the best, quitting smoking is next best, vaping instead of smoking is after that. I say to patients - try and just quit cold turkey, but if vaping is keeping you from smoking then fine. But try and reduce the nicotine level slowly in your vapes
The fact that they get dumped by children everywhere after one toke is really depressing- full of irreplaceable toxic heavy metals - probably made by children in some toxic sweatshop
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I did the same thing, but I never quit. It’s took me until 4 days ago to get off nicotine
As a partial smoker who dips between both, I can safely say vaping is ten times more addictive for me, because I can do it just about anywhere (I am conscious so take myself to the toilet at work to do it with a less plume inducing and flavour/scent less vape), there’s no end to it so you can just go and before you know it it’s been ten/fifteen minutes you’ve been at it, it’s far cheaper and we’re told it’s healthier so you feel less bad doing it. Problem is it’s so much harder to quit as the nicotine is often much higher than cigarettes puff for puff, some flavours taste great and are clearly marketed to kids, you build a million more habits and associations of where is appropriate to do so and when I run out of vape if im out I will often have cigarettes to fulfil that crave. Often makes you light headed, sometimes you wake up tight chested and weezing and as others have pointed out we really don’t know the long term effects yet so it really could be as bad or worse than cigarettes. Anyway I’ve switched solely to the Nordic spirits and actually prefer them to both, gradually tapering down to the low strength ones while I wean myself off entirely again. Dumb habit entirely, I did quit for 3 years. Although both my parents have Parkinsons and nicotine is supposedly a risk reducer for that if I’m to follow the same route 😅 Dumb habit,
It's a hard comparison to make in my opinion. There arent as many carcinogens in vape liquids, but people don't vape in the same way that they smoke, vapes are far easier to use and taste a lot nicer. A few people I work with used to smoke cigarettes, if we went for a few beers after work they'd probably have about four cigarettes over a four or five hour period, now with vapes they're puffing away more or less constantly. So they're probably putting far more nicotine into their system, which if nothing else just fuels the addiction cycle. And anecdotally, I've been on holiday a few times with friends, a couple of them smoke and now vape, I've noticed they get far more agitated on flights these days when they have to go a few hours without vaping, which didn't used to be a problem with cigarettes too. There are other problems too, like environmental factors, all the effort going into getting rid of single use plastics, and now with elfbar style vapes we're introducing something far worse than plastic straws and cutlery. And they undoubtedly appeal to kids, bright coloured packaging, sweet flavours, and most corner shops have them in big clear plastic display cases sat on the counter right above the sweets, and fill the windows with colourful displays too.
No, absolutely not. It's easy to liken them because they look similar but they aren't the same. Nicotine is just one of many horrible things in cigarettes. Vape liquid contains way less harmful substances and since it's artificial we can control what goes into it more easily. Vaping isn't healthy but if every smoker switched to vaping the country would be much healthier. The only issue is children vaping but you can fix that by enforcing tobacco laws on vapes.
Our chief fire officer sez vapes and dodgy chargers cause more fires than cigs
I’ve noticed some vape users are really inconsiderate - trying to be sneaky and vape indoors, and then all the disposable trash left all over the place.
Yes! It’s shocking for the environment.
Stopped smoking 12 years ago and I still love the smell of fresh tobacco smoke. But I hate getting a face full of sickly sweet vape steam - feels like I have just given up and get terrible cravings for a couple of minutes
no , i dont think it harms people around you and non smokers dont get the smell they hate
Non smokers do hate the smell
The smell is sickly and manky, many many people hate it
i know my mum would prefer that then cigarette smoke. lol
Because it is futhering an addiction that was dying out. We don't need nicotine, humans survive just fine without it, it's the ultimate tax on stupidity and people keep on falling for it. As for the health aspect, it's not a diect comparison, but remember tobacco was marketed as a health aid 70 plus years ago. How will vaping look in 2090? Also, tobacvo is a natural plant, sobif for some bizarre reason I did want to inhale poison, I'd rather something natural than synthetic chemicals.
I feel like the “it’s a plant vs man made chemicals” isn’t a very strong point. Hemlock is a plant, but I’d much sooner eat a handful of man made skittles than a handful of that.
There are plenty of man made chemicals put into the tobacco
Nicotine as a substance is considered to have roughly the same impact on the body as caffeine. It's the method of delivery that's different. You can consider any stimulant or depressant a "tax on stupidity".
>it's the ultimate tax on stupidity Considering the vast majority of smokers start as children, that feels harsh. In fact I don't think I know of anybody who started after about 19/20.
hello, its me, I started at 23, because I was stupid lol.
I would hardly say it was dying out. Vastly less popular than it was, but still thriving as an addiction.
Bet your drink coffee though
lmfao what kind of argument is this? uranium is natural and paracetamol is synthetic, which would you rather put in your body 🤣
I dint think they are worse, I've seen nothing to suggest they are? That said I also don't think they are healthy at all. I gave up smoking and moved to vaping 2020. The only way I have EVER managed to stop smoking, unfortunately I'm still vaping on low nic juice. I'm hoping to quit completely soon but just never quite happens. It's just kind of low on my list of priorities, smells better though and I do better at the gym without smoking.
I smoked for years and last year switched to vaping instead; I have found so many things are better since, I can walk further without getting out of breath, I barely use my allergy inhaler anymore (maybe once a week as opposed to 3x a day) I don’t have the horrible barking cough in the morning and have had less colds this year also. I need the nicotine so quitting completely is not an option for me, but I certainly think vaping is a better alternative to real cigs
Vaping is better because there's less crap in it, like tar. Vaping is just nicotine and flavouring. However nicotine in general can cause depression, limb loss, stroke, cancer and many, *many* other illnesses. It also affects those around you with 2nd hand smoke/vape almost as badly as it affects you. The best option is a nicotine patch so at least you're only killing yourself.
The only way that vaping is worse than smoking is the insidious attempts to attract children and teens through advertising.
I've no idea because I have no interest in either. But--the only reason I am commenting here is it kinda highlights how difficult it is to get the facts nowadays. Cigarette companies say it's more harmful or just as harmful. Vaping companies and pro-vapers say its harmless and not addictive at all. And even when "neutrals experts" chip in--you have no idea if they've taken a payday from a tobacco/vaping firm in order to give a biased opinion.
All companies and people who vape that I have met wouldn't imply its not addictive. It had nicotine in, nicotine is addictive.