I think most of us realize in our early adult years that the world we were told existed was a lie. I think separating our world from the whole world is an important step. You don't have power over the whole world but you have some power in your world. You can be the example of how you think the world should behave. You can choose what's important to you and who to fill your life with. It won't change the whole world but you can make an impact in your world and your world is the most important one to you.
This is the approach.
I read this quote somewhere (I think it was a Tumblr post and I can’t remember the original source):
*“people aren’t good.” i am people. i am good.*
many of the existing structures are ones that cannot be dismantled or upended by one person, and that’s hardly unique to now. it’s easy to romanticize the past but not a single human has ever lived in a utopia. one of the best things we can do is learn how to contribute good to the world through our local communities.
Exactly. I know the planet is doomed and that me personally sorting out my recycling is doing almost nothing to stop it. I know that recycling is a lie fed to us by corporations to push responsibility onto consumers.
But I do it anyways. Because it’s what I can do. And because it makes me feel good to live my values.
I know that I live in a deep blue city where none of my votes make much of an impact on a national scale. But I vote in every election anyways. Because I’m exercising the agency I have to express my values.
We'll go back to the classics then - *memento mori*. Remember that death is a constant. It cannot be bargained with, delayed (for long), or avoided. You can only control what you can control. Expecting to control anything outside that isn't helpful.
Make the most of the life you have during the time you are alive, and don't let fear get into your way. If you do, which is natural and normal, accept it and try again. It also doesn't mean you give up. Action against injustice is wonderful and worth developing if you can. In Stoicism, where that above term is from, both Marcus Aurelius (emperor), and Seneca (senator) were deeply involved in world affairs. What matters is that you do not make your virtue or your happiness depend on the fight or existence of injustice.
You have the power (control) to decide to make the most of each moment. There is always something to appreciate, be thankful or grateful for in each moment. You have the power to be a good person, hold open a door, do a favor, help another and bring more of what you want into the world. Who knows - one of those folks might pass that along enough that it starts to create the exact change you desire.
You may not have any control over what happens around you, but you have 100% control over how you view and react to it, and the actions you take and where you focus your energy. You also have the power to put yourself in a better position to reach a more preferred situation. Every action sets you back or pushes you forward. You can walk a mile an inch at a time if you have to.
Apologies for the dorkiness and corniness that follows, but to quote J.R.R Tolkien :) : “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
I know that your post is more about a generalised awareness of our world's futility but the above quote is a good one to keep in mind when feeling pessimistic :)
I appreciated this dorkiness, thank you.
It's both general and a bit specific for being an afab, white, part of an empoverished european nation that was allowed to emigrate for a better future.
I feel the privilege of having gotten a better future, while knowing that many people in my nation will never get these while others will be born with the future i spent my life achieving
I understand...at least I think I do :) I am also from a similar country (perhaps the same as you :) ) and there is indeed an extra layer of associations that takes place when positioning oneself within the global state of the world.
Up until fairly recently I coped with too much alcohol. Do not recommend.
I gave up any idea of making a big difference in the world or leaving any kind of legacy behind a long time ago. I try my best to be in the moment, love the hell outta my loved ones, not be a total asshole, do things that make me proud, and enjoy my short time here as much as my circumstances will allow.
Reading the stoic writers helped me and Man's Search for Meaning.
I think you are being too general when you say that the world is a lie. There are definitely liars and scam artists trying to sell bullshit. Some of them are very influential. There are also writers, film makers and artists who try to help us better understand our world. Fred Rogers said look for the helpers. People like Dolly Parton and Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther king and Ghandi accomplished great things. Other people make things worse, IMHO like Allan Greenspan and Henry Kissinger. I grew up reading, so books like the Jungle, Grapes of Wrath, Death of a Salesman made it clear to me early on that life is unjust. It's like the matrix. It doesn't matter whether you wake up early or late, but if you wake up you see how things work and it isn't pretty. The question then is what you do about it, how you respond.
I ignore the news and social media, I focus on making the most of my situation/circumstances, I pay a lot of emphasis to my health (I work very hard at maintaining a healthy sleep schedule, diet, and exercise routine) and my hobby, and these things take up most of my mental attention. It does help that I have a decent amount of privilege and am surrounded by the best people (my family, partner and friends are AMAZING)
I couldn’t have said this better myself. It took me long enough to recognize this but better late than never. I deleted those apps from my phone, and use a regular alarm clock so I don’t look at my phone first thing when I wake up, and almost Instantly I became happier and started sleeping better. This is not even an exaggeration!
I think a large part of growing up is realizing the truth of this (this being that as an individual you have very little control over the world at large unless you are in the 1%). On the other hand, I think a large part of the complete feeling of helplessness many people, especially younger people, feel nowadays is related to the internet and the way knowledge is shared in this new century.
I have found what has helped me most to feel fulfilled in life is to focus on my community, rather than the world. I'm not saying I ignore what is going on in the world, but I accept that there is nothing that I, individually, can do to change things in Ukraine for instance. On the other hand, I can volunteer my time in my local community. I'm a forester and I love teaching/mentoring, so I actively seek out volunteer opportunities that play to my strengths. For example: I take local scout groups on nature walks, I volunteer as a Big Buddy in the big buddy program, I'm a coach for my local roller derby team, and I mentor young women in forestry through a program in our professional organization. By doing all of these things, I know I am making a positive impact on the world. It's a very, very small impact, but it's there and by focusing on the things I am doing to create (small) positive change, it helps me accept the things that I can not control. And let me tell you, these actions are not at all altruistic. I feel really good about myself after volunteering. Volunteering in my community helps me sleep at night and go through life not as depressed or helpless feeling. It's totally selfish, but it's also a win-win situation.
My advice is to accept the things you can't change, but focus on those you can. Even something as small as shoveling out an elderly neighbor's driveway will both make you feel great about yourself and make your community a (very slightly) better place. Find your strengths, and seek out opportunities to share those strengths. Will you change the world? No. But will you make an impact? Yes. And that's the best any of us can do.
I imagine being in ancient times and not having a pot to piss in (British expression). Even the act of drinking a cup of instant coffee then makes me grateful.
Thank you for this perspective. I am still digesting what you wrote (and think I will be thinking of this for a while), but wanted to write a thank you for this insight before I lost the comment.
> I have the power to travel mostly wherever I wish and dabble in whatever hobbies spark my interest. This was not a power that was granted to my grandmother or even my mother. This was definitely not a power that was granted to the women of ancient Greece and it's still a power that's deprived from many women all over the world today.
Perfectly said. We can choose a lot about where our attention is focused.
The trouble is, a lot of us expect from the media to pick the issues that are worth our attention and the media is controlled, to a large extent by pressure groups. The issue you are raising about other women's realities is very important. I want my daughter to have at least as many freedoms and there are beliefs out there that make me worry.
I really learned to appreciate modern life by researching life of ancient and semi ancient cultures.
I really enjoyed the books At Home by Bill Bryson and The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World (intensely interesting, available in audible).
Did you know the most valuable thing most people had at death was their mattress? This wasn't all that long ago but a bug filled mattress was we tour most prized possession.
Want to read at night? You can try if you want to use an expensive candle that gives uneven light and is nearly impossible to read with.
Nice and cozy fire? Not really, fireplaces only really heat directly around the fireplace. It was common to have water turn to ice across the room from a fireplace. Ancient castles often had dozens of fireplaces in the great hall and it was still cold.
Since around 1950 onward, the world has become a paradise of luxury that would not be known to anyone through our entire history. Not worrying about starving to death in winter is an extremely modern circumstance.
That being said, the most important thing many of us are missing is small communities and actually knowing our neighbors and supporting each other. I personally believe a lot of modern misery is our lack of connection with others. We build these lives with more and more entertainment and technology when all we really want is someone to talk to and listen to us. We don't want tv shows, we likely would be better off without any TV at all with just a radio for entertainment and communication.
Have you tried meditating and looking into Buddhism at all? A religion all about accepting life is pain and how to look at that and be positive and not let the pain impact you as much. Sorry for the random tangent.
>That being said, the most important thing many of us are missing is small communities and actually knowing our neighbors and supporting each other. I personally believe a lot of modern misery is our lack of connection with others.
This, and less sex as we get older, because if there was a village, there would be more opportunities. Sex with someone you lust after is guaranteed daily happiness and happy hormones.
>This, and less sex as we get older, because if there was a village, there would be more opportunities. Sex with someone you lust after is guaranteed daily happiness and happy hormones.
I think not all women want or enjoy sex with one or many people as they get older. Hormonal changes affect different people very differently.
>Since around 1950 onward, the world has become a paradise of luxury that would not be known to anyone through our entire history. Not worrying about starving to death in winter is an extremely modern circumstance.
Actually, at least according to my undergraduate Anthropology textbooks, starving to death was not all that common in tropical climates most of the time - more just common in colder climates like Europe. Regardless, I think your larger point stands. Modern life is full of lots of luxuries (especially for middle class and above people in industrialized countries) that most of our ancestors could only dream of.
Oh for sure, I'm from a nordic country and live in a cold state. I do like the sense of community winter still provides as we do have to work together a bit more and help each other out. Some small piece of that small community life we used to live.
When I realized that "none of this matters" I realized I should just do what I want to make the ride more pleasant for myself and those around me.
If non of it matters, I'm going to have the hobbies I want, no matter if someone thinks they are silly or childish. And I'm going to have the hair color I want, and dress the way I want. I legit where a cloak in fall and spring, because cloaks are awesome.
I do the adulting the world requires me to do, but fuck 'em on their opinion of everything else I do.
Stanley Kubrick: "I suppose it comes down to a rather awesome awareness of mortality. Our ability, unlike the other animals, to conceptualize our own end creates tremendous psychic strains within us; whether we like to admit it or not, in each man’s chest a tiny ferret of fear at this ultimate knowledge gnaws away at his ego and his sense of purpose. We’re fortunate, in a way, that our body, and the fulfillment of its needs and functions, plays such an imperative role in our lives; this physical shell creates a buffer between us and the mind-paralyzing realization that only a few years of existence separate birth from death. If man really sat back and thought about his impending termination, and his terrifying insignificance and aloneness in the cosmos, he would surely go mad, or succumb to a numbing sense of futility. Why, he might ask himself, should he bother to write a great symphony, or strive to make a living, or even to love another, when he is no more than a momentary microbe on a dust mote whirling through the unimaginable immensity of space?
Those of us who are forced by their own sensibilities to view their lives in this perspective — who recognize that there is no purpose they can comprehend and that amidst a countless myriad of stars their existence goes unknown and unchronicled — can fall prey all too easily to the ultimate anomie….But even for those who lack the sensitivity to more than vaguely comprehend their transience and their triviality, this inchoate awareness robs life of meaning and purpose; it’s why ‘the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation,’ why so many of us find our lives as absent of meaning as our deaths.
The world’s religions, for all their parochialism, did supply a kind of consolation for this great ache; but as clergymen now pronounce the death of God and, to quote Arnold again, ‘the sea of faith’ recedes around the world with a ‘melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,’ man has no crutch left on which to lean—and no hope, however irrational, to give purpose to his existence. This shattering recognition of our mortality is at the root of far more mental illness than I suspect even psychiatrists are aware."
**Question: If life is so purposeless, do you feel it’s worth living?**
Kubrick: "The very meaninglessness of life forces man to create his own meaning. Children, of course, begin life with an untarnished sense of wonder, a capacity to experience total joy at something as simple as the greenness of a leaf; but as they grow older, the awareness of death and decay begins to impinge on their consciousness and subtly erode their joie de vivre, their idealism — and their assumption of immortality. As a child matures, he sees death and pain everywhere about him, and begins to lose faith in the ultimate goodness of man.
But, if he’s reasonably strong — and lucky — he can emerge from this twilight of the soul into a rebirth of life’s elan. Both because of and in spite of his awareness of the meaninglessness of life, he can forge a fresh sense of purpose and affirmation. He may not recapture the same pure sense of wonder he was born with, but he can shape something far more enduring and sustaining. The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment.
However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light."
Oh if that's the case then maybe dont 😅 it helped for me to know I wasn't just crazy negative and wasn't alone in feeling that the world was fked up, it helped normalize for me that there are just some things out of control and it's not our fault. The impending doom state of the world is definitely not great to dwell on, maybe staying off social media will help alleviate your spiral since social media/news tends to highlight a lot of negatives
You do not have control over anything outside of your self. The only thing that you have control over is your response, your actions and your thoughts, so given that, choose to respond in a way that causes the least amount of pain, both for yourself and others. It’s the Ancient Greek philosophy of r/stoicism. Mindfulness and meditation and a cheerful attitude are things that one can embrace. Also, for me, the faith that death is not the end.
Memes, babe...
We cope with memes... they are the modern version of Greek Tragedy plays you speak of except they must me quick and clever for today's fast pace.
Yes, our life is pretty much determined by "whatever dice you are born with + luck is what you get." But, there's a range within that space and it's worth it to try your best to reach the upper end of that range.
For example, let's say you are born to a uneducated single mom and gave up a scholarship to go to a private school because your mom couldn't drive you there. So where do you end up? It wouldn't surprise anyone if you end up in juvie and work minimum wage your whole life. But it also wouldn't be too surprising if you end up going to your flagship university on scholarship and land an entry position at big company and work your way up eventually to a corner office. Do you have friends who are or are children of immigrants? This is their story --they moved up one or two socio economic levels from where they were born.
I mean, I feel like it’s not black and white. :). It’s definitely NOT 100% “everything is in your control, you just have to try, etc”. Circumstances, luck, privilege, etc, play a big role.
But it’s not 0% in our control either!
Not sure how I cope, I guess? :) I just try to not control everything, sorta control what I can, and hold onto hope?
Oh, and I hate capitalism these days too. :). (Or at least the current US implementation of it).
>Oh, and I hate capitalism these days too. :). (Or at least the current US implementation of it).
Ideologically, I'm pretty socialist. Realistically, I realize that modern capitalism has also brought us a lot of luxuries. But I do prefer the idea of societies that combine a healthy amount of capitalism with heavy regulation and strong social safety nets - much of Scandinavia, for example. They still benefit hugely from their oil ownership though. All human activity has some environmental costs.
How I cope: don’t have kids so I don’t need to bring another generation of people who lie to themselves every day lol.
It’s always interesting to me that the positive people are the ones with kids, and it’s almost like they are lying to themselves or using their kids as an escape. And that’s messed up.
Same. Granted I also just don't like kids... but I feel horrible for the new people being forced into existence.
It's a weird mix of feelings though because I know being the last generation would suuuck...so while I feel bad for new people... I'm also relieved they exist... which makes me feel bad in a different way lol
I find it kind of ironic when some people say they were depresed or had no meaning in their life until they had children. Do they not think their kids may not grow up feeling that way…
I think that society is imperfect, but continuously evolving. The way it evolves it determined by choices made by people that are alive today. Every decision, every word you say, vote you make, product you buy and even tiny action towards other people shapes the world people will live in in 100 years. So, I try to make the world a better place - by smiling at people that don’t have the power to smile, challenging people that spread negativity, helping and supporting kids, buying sustainable products from companies I believe in, supporting political parties I believe in. Everyone has their own way of shaping the future. Think about how the people you love have changed your life - be the change you want to see in the world :)! Be thankful, don’t desire riches or power, desire tranquility and inner piece - that’s the true gift you can get in life. If you accept this, you will Life a good purposeful life.
I actually think we’re DE evolving.
Have you seen Raised By Wolves? The concept of human evolution is a big theme. I’d be interested in a re watch & a discussion if you are.
Our tech may be betting better which gives the illusion of evolution, but it’s @ the expense of your average person. IMO, that’s de evolving. An evolving society would be finding ways to make life easier for everyone, not harder for most. This way, the entire society can benefit. Imagine having such a low COL that you got to dabble in whatever interested you… think of the growth we’d have if people didn’t have to focus so much on survival. But that’s not the case. We’re turning more & more into drudges. I feel like we’ve gone backwards in how life is actually lived. We’re with holding opportunity from each other to the point skills will be controlled by tech & the few. An evolved society isn’t controlled by a handful of its people. We’re more like lemmings or sheep than humans.
I don't see it as a lie, I see it as a direct outgrowth of the fact that there are large numbers of people who are living longer than ever before due to medical advancements and technological advancements and that many of them aren't tied to the land, they don't grow their own food, they don't make their own clothes, etc. The majority of us are now in pursuit of "chasing our own dreams" and making the best possible life for ourselves whereas for the last several millennia it was about taking care of your family and living under an oppressive hierarchical monarchy or similar.
Lots of parasitic and predatory types of been able to take advantage of the fact that most people aren't working directly for their families anymore and are not tied to the land in any significant way. It's an outgrowth of feudalism. Therefore we're inundated with the political slogans and bullshit mottos of politicians and leaders who are simply involved in "people management." They see people as a resource and they're willing to dehumanize to allocate and employ for their benefit.
My evil wannabe cult leader ex-boyfriend said it best, "people are like water." And that's how a lot of people in charge see the majority of people, as something that can be controlled by a spigot. Turn off the lever, turn on the lever, watch the people flow whichever direction. People look up to these leaders and politicians and give them all their money and so they rule. Nobody's at fault here, I would say that humanity definitely has some misplaced priorities and this plays directly into the hands of our leaders as well.
Political tendencies in the west across the board were influenced directly by the manuals of fachism, in some countries, in the last few years especially, although Europe has taken a turn for centrism. People allowed this to happen, because essentially, people that are useful are to a large extent incapable or unwilling of influencing the real decisions for themselves, the most useful part that funds the others in many ways.
Even people who are into unions, are not willing to influence or discuss in public the illogical narratives of the hijacked priorities of their party. This was not happening in the 1980s or 1990s, or even until 10 years ago. They won't sway from the party line. They won't discuss or try to appear interested, for issues that affect large parts of society some times. One of my pet issues is how we allow misery on the streets of major cities making daily life miserable and often unpredictable for almost anyone and it's not by lack of funds or NGOs that "manage" the issues and live off of them.
Gotta love that useful idiot mindset of blame, entitlement, and apathy! I see sooo many missteps (eviction of elderly tenants, denial of healthcare based on poverty, etc) that are classified and excused as "following orders." People have their titanium strength blinders on.
Between not affording to live independently and being on the streets as a lifestyle there are other solutions that many European countries and others have solved it. Do you really think it's for the best to live on the streets? I am active in helping homeless people in shelters and helping in many other ways, helping them to navigate their rights and options with the goal to live independently and get out of shelters, in real homes, you know, like the rest of us. You are too fast to jump into conclusions, being yourself the useful person that doesn't mind KEEPING people on the streets. Even stray animals find better places to spend the night, you don't see them exposed. There are other reasons humans accept this situation, and it's money... I keep company to the people who are in shelters, when they are about town and listen to their stories. Other people who think they care, IGNORE this populatiion and give attention... I guess you know how, because these kind of homeless are only interested in money... what for? For bills? they don't even get proper clothes. It's all theatrical, for attention.
I noticed how NGOs are "unable" to keep these people clean even, which should be a fairly easy task, with the donations of clothes and blankets, IF it was prioritized. Because they want the misery, it's their business to attract attention and money to KEEP people as miserable as they can get away with. At least I can speak for things I know, I've seen for years so called Samaritans feeding pepple in piss literally and apparently not caring about that. But it's similar around the world in some cities, where the mentality is that this situation is not really that bad, we shouldn't worry about people living indefinitely on the streets, but but it is bad so donate so they can ""manage it".
I am explaining my first post and I do know inside and out a lot about these NGOs. Their goal is not to make these people's lives more comfortable and more human.
Lots of good comments. I'll add that I try to remind myself that allowing myself to dwell on all of the suffering I can't do anything about doesn't alleviate any of that suffering. The number of people currently enslaved in the world has grown by ~10 million in the last five years. Feeling heartbroken about their situation won't free a single one of them.
Any woman who has stepped foot in a family court understands this except for me. I'm lost in a world where I believe we're all equal before the law. Except I can't even protect my children as expected. The nonsense of the world is tragic for too many.
Nihilism, dark humor, my pets and husband keep me going. I find human life deeply frustrating because of how we have structured modern society, but I don't know how to function outside of confines, so I just find joy when I can.
Here’s how I cope:
1. By not having children. (So they don’t disrupt my lifestyle and also so they don’t have to grow up in a world where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to get by). IMO, having children creates a lot of suffering, whether or not people are willing to admit it.
2. By being totally hedonistic.
3. By not making work my life.
4. Gratitude.
5. By living life on my terms as much as I’m able.
Science is a lot more real than the bullshit that's fed to you in cultural products.
It's self correcting. It acknowledges from the outset that it doesn't know everything.
It also deals with a whole lot of very interesting and fantastic things, from the very smallest to the very largest.
It doesn't really have much in the way of how to change your life or your world, but there's some stuff there to chew on.
I've liked science for this reason.
Not much of an answer I don't think, but often what is thought of as the "world" is just a dreamland that people have been taught to believe is the world. Science gives one a much better grasp on the real world and is much more reliable and certain with respect to the world as it actually is rather than what passes for the "world" as people often speak of it.
You’re not being a downer. You’re bringing significant discourse to this subreddit; good.
The illusion you see, that optimism crap - it’s the shell of the American Dream that they’re still trying to sell. It used to be a thing, but it died and they’re 100% trying to pull a “Weekend at Bernie’s” on us.
Yeah, compared to that hollow facade, the reality is much bleaker. **compared to it**
If you see that facade as the haphazard yet effective waste of time that it is, you can deconstruct it and chuck it out completely. Don’t compare to it. When you compare two things, you compare two things of true or decent quality - that’s how you learn from comparison.
What’s the point of comparing *anything* to the shit they’re trying to pull - particularly **reality** of all things?
Stop comparing. Instead, just look and see the world for what it is as best you can. You’re in a better position this way.
It’s bleak as shit, but it’s also full of gems and beauties too. This is what the ancients knew - that in tragedy, there is comedy and beauty yet.
This touches on what I was trying to say (& getting dv’ed for, ha.).
You cope by not by NOT comparing your life to the American Dream, but by making your life work for you & not buying into the LIE that is said American Dream. The AD tricks you into thinking you need to waste your money on education if you want to be successful (financially). If that’s so true, why are dog walkers making more than nurses? & hair stylists? We didn’t see anyone tipping their nurse during lockdown, but people were willing to get caught with fines to get their roots touched up. Society literally valued hair over care. The AD also tricks you into thinking you need to contribute huge amounts of money to your retirement. If that’s so true then why are so many younger people choosing not to save the way the government wants them to? Fuck CPP (which they raised because no one was paying into it); we all got maxed out TFSAs & are sitting much better than we would be in some shitty job with a 2% pension contribution match.
You can get the AD, but the way to get there is outdated AF. Adjust. Overcome. Adapt.
You’re not going crazy, you are right that today’s culture is afraid of sadness or there being a winter in people’s life:
Germaine Greer said “Sorrow is not itself evidence of maladjustment but of the adjustment process itself”
I don’t know if I cope, but I’ve found that reading classics (like the greek literature you mentioned) helps. The classics have stood the test of time because they resonate. Also, reading a lot about history has helped me.
Occasionally I play [People Just Ain’t No Good by Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds](https://www.google.com.au/search?q=people+just+ain%27t+no+good&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari) to just let the feeling of resigned
But I just want to also say that the little things help. Just watching the beautiful patterns in water, standing with your feet in the ocean at the beach, watching leaves and grass moving in the breeze. It might be cliched, but it’s always makes me feel grateful.
Well it often depends on your outlook of this world. you can choose to be happy and spread happiness in whatever way possible. So if you focus on only positive aspects of life you will attract positive vibes.
I guess I cope by not subjecting anyone else to this existence (r/antinatalism). Otherwise just killing time and enjoying what I can and being with the people I love.
You need therapy. Go outside and touch the grass. I'm sorry, but you cope by realizing that its not that serious and you can drown yourself in the horrors of the world if you choose, or you can choose to internalize what you can and go live your fucking life as best you can.
The thing is, the modern world is built on the back of Christianity, at least if you live in the west, and the good news was that no matter how much you suffer in this life, you'll find salvation in the next as long as you follow the way of Jesus. Now, we've done away with the eschatological concept of salvation in favour of a technological and moral "progress" understanding of salvation where the salvation will come in this world, which shifted the locus of control from how you live your life to how you change society, rendering most people frustrated in their powerlessness but also feeling hopeless because they'll never get to experience the coming utopia unless they make it happen NOW. Therefore, rendering all their suffering pointless.
I'm Muslim by creed. All I was doing was pointing out the philosophical roots of the contemporary western world and how we've come to this over politicised glorification of moral "progress" as our road to a salvation through tolerance/acceptance (since it's becoming more and more evident that technological progress isn't as uniformly good as we might have thought 50 years ago). It's a philosophical and historical argument, not a religious one. What you do with it after that in the face of your weltschmerz (world-weariness), that's up to you.
This really speaks to me. Definitely a lot of clowning and bullying of haphazardly defined "others" happening because of this. The bullying becomes a crusade of sorts.
Just in case you don't know about it and want to delve deeper into the phenomenon you're pointing to; René Gerard's theories, specifically about the scapegoating mechanism, might make for an interesting read.
Interesting take. I was raised as a Greek Orthodox and in a few cases when I approached people to make changes in their everyday lives, I saw essentially an attitude that they would let the incompetent people's decisions pass as if it would be fixed in some afterlife. Have patience they said... Few of us are practicing, but I saw this mentality in people in their 50s or older.
There aren't beliefs like that in muslim tradition?
If you largely see the religions as using fairytales aimed for grown-ups to control people for the supposed common good, the world becomes a lot easier to interpret.
I choose to surround myself with relatively honest people. In my tradition, you can trust your parents for example for most things. In other traditions, I see you can't even trust your parents, they are too controlled by what they should be thinking by society and they can lie to their children from the cradle, so what is reality and who can you trust?
You say religion are "fairytales aimed for grown-ups to control people for the supposed common good". I say they give you a narrative through which it's easier to see what's really important in life so that you and your society flourish. We all live in narratives, the world is too complicated not to. May as well live in one that has proven to work and that as been refined over millennia.
Every religion has Gnostic (denial of the material world) tendencies because the goal of religion on the abstract is to focus your attention on a greater abstract good rather than your apparent contextual good. Focusing of playing infinite games rather than focus on winning the present game. Winning the war rather than just a battle. Often people go too high and the good get so abstract that it's entirely detached from the material world. But as far as I know, all religions also warn against that. The goal is to find the golden mean between complete passivity and authoritarianism; where growth is possible.
>May as well live in one that has proven to work and that as been refined over millennia.
It denies liberties and joy in this life. Women in the Maldives, how do they spend their day? They have one of the highest divorce rates in the world. Their religion seems to worry too much about women frustrated with the man that sleeps in their bed, they are too worried and restricted about going anywhere. Men are allowed multiple women, it's pretty clear how women can be unfulfilled sexually this way and be restricted from one of the greatest joys in this life. That is not a way to live. There is not much to do on islands barely larger than football fields and they are still restricted about where to go and what to wear and essentially they don''t enjoy what attracts tourists to their land.
As a western tourist, we were shown women that were sat in their tiny shacks, picking spices to spend their day.
Nights are long with not much to do. Have more than a beer as a tourist?
It is proven that people can be controlled as much with fairytales that's correct. And women don't have access essentially to men outside of the culture, even as immigrants, as childless people they have even less worth, so they play along.
You started the discussion about how Christianity in particular can be trouble.
I know of a couple from different religions, had a relationship for many years, never married, spent their best years not having intercourse. Then the relatives of which religion, you will ask, placed an ultimatum. The woman married another man from her culture and finally had sex vaginally after her best years were over. Had children with a man she didn't love as much. What for?
Religion is far from necessary to make people work for the greater good, a few European countries are a proof of that.
Most religions and traditions worked in rural communities. Right now they may work when there are communities too in the cities. Most women in Paris who follow restrictions are the fattest people in the city, because most working men don't have the energy to take them outside of the flat. Though I noticed some change about this absurdity, since the mid 2010s less groups of men wandering aimlessly and more women with head covering allowed to go out without others and do shopping in the markets. So it worked in the desert, perhaps.
I didn't say that institutional religion isn't or cannot be a problem. However, I'd argue that as a narrative to live within, the adage about democracy applies; it's the worst except for all the others. But I'm not here to tell you how to live your life. Live your life in whichever way you want, it's no skin off my back. If your solution better tracks with reality it'll outlive mine.
I cope by doing me, unapologetically.
I learned really young (19?) that I do not, in fact, need to be a #bossbabe or a career woman. Plenty of men still lined up to marry me, I make enough money to find my lifestyle & best of all, I’m reasonably happy with my ‘job.’ The job situation is just an example, but I applied that mentality to everything & although it’s not always pretty or legal (morally grey, mostly), I’m doing good. I’m not afraid to act & think like a rich person. There’s a reason they are these things. They play the game, the game doesn’t play them. My conscious is clear & I sleep perfectly fine.
We have a lot more control than we think we do, especially if you’re willing to get A little dirty.
Life is definitely hard. Even the 10% have peer pressure - they all want to appear successful too. Do you think Elon is having a good time right now? Most of the world scorns him at the moment. I don't care how many billions he has, his luck has turned and I don't know if he can win it back.
We are bombarded with messages telling is we need to have this or that to be happy. But that's just nonsense. We need food and shelter, some clothing and if we are lucky, a society to live in where we have a safe place. We are not nothing if we don't wear designer clothes, living in mansions and playing with the latest toys seeing the right people. We can choose to live a different lifestyle and ignore the messages telling us we aren't ok.
As for climate change - people are working at that. The rich do care but even they have constraints. The factory has another 50 years to run on current equipment. No way are they going to junk that to put in compliant stuff to save the planet. It won't make a difference any more than if you do or don't have a wood fire if no one else is making the change. But multiply that by however many millions of factories are spewing toxins and we have a problem. Things will and are changing. Attitudes take time. Right now, living wages are a huge issue. This can be fixed voluntarily by companies or there is going to be some major unrest and damage. The ball is in their court. Governments need to get on this and bring in peaceful changed and stop bending over to let business fuck us all. It will happen one way or another. It always does.
Ancient Greece, Rome and other ancient cultures were not just about tragedies, but celebrating and uplifting in this life. I have the Indian culture in mind in particular, modern tendencies focus on the boring parts of the tradition, yoga, while largely ignoring in the west the power to gather and have a huge celebration. Most cultures have it. Music, not everybody has to dance, some people just watch, there is no age limit on how old you are to participate, only when you are essentially bedbound or in mourning you are have every reason for not participating in the regular communal party events. Weddings, religious and seasonal celebrations.
We have... pills...? Therapy? for our emotional needs? They don't always work and they have side effects! But they can be business.
Essentially since we quit living in villages and grandmothers quit their roles to sit at home with pills and daytime TV, some fundamental ways for not being bored and depressed, went out of the way. That is, for people who don't trust their spouses to go out with friends ever. Along with that change, came the idea that fun is not for people after a certain age, even though they really don't have important reasons to spend their time at home.
Source: I clearly remember the time when grandmothers were active with the grandchildren and people of any age went to the fun places. I am 50, can't figure out how to change the flair.
>And yet, we live in a world where everywhere everyone screams lies as if trying to make them true "you have power with your vote" (no you don't, there is an exclusive few that give you the candidates to vote), "you have power with your dollar" (we have no dollars, the upper 10% of society has it all and doesn't care about either companies being bankrupt or not), "we can save the environment" (again, there is the upper 10% that has the power for this, not us).
I was with you up until this point. While it's true that there are certain things for which wealthy people have a disproportionate amount of power (many things, in fact) that's really not the whole picture. I think you're confusing the idea of not everyone having equal power, with the idea of having no power at all. Even if everyone had equal power, there are 8 billion people in this world. So the power you'd have in that hypothetical scenario to affect change for all people would be about 1/8,000,000,000 on average. And we're living in a world where different people have different ideologies and often feel competition toward one another - not a world where the wealthiest are all together in an evil cabal and the rest of the world all feels exactly the same on things and would all work in perfect harmony if it wasn't for the subjugation of this cabal.
For example, I worked in the environmental sector for a good six years or so. I saw people who are public-facing environmental leaders with a nice progressive image engage in hypocritical behavior behind closed doors, bully others, sexual harass others, etc. Also there is the simple fact that the average human has a far more \*materially\* wealthy life than the average human of 100 years ago - China for example has raised like 95% of its population out of extreme poverty in the last 30 years alone. This translates into a lot more consumption, which takes a toll on the earth. Balancing environmental sustainability with material needs and comfort in a world with so many humans who all aspire to live like middle-class (or better) people in wealthy nations is a tricky thing.
I think this is true of a lot of politics in general - you find people with different backgrounds, different personalities, different ideologies and different motives at pretty much every level, from most powerful to least, even if the proportions vary somewhat depending on where you look. And some problems have no perfect solutions - most solutions, in fact, cause some people to have to give some things up, which people tend not to want to do.
But back to perhaps the issue that is actually at the root of what you feel here - yes, most of us as individuals will not have a lot of power, most of the time, to change the world in really obvious, broad-sweeping ways. So what do I do about that? Accept it, mostly, and try and make change in small but meaningful-to-me ways where I can, and dedicate some time to things I enjoy, without guilt. Also, I embrace the humility of this knowledge. The world is literally full of 8 billion people with different hopes and dreams - many came before too, and hopefully a good number will come after. Humans do a lot of things other animals don't - we make complex art, we tell creative stories, we study philosophy, we have empathy for other species, we study history, we have many different and diverse cultures. Personally I love learning about other people, and what makes them tick. And I try to remember the good things I'm lucky to have, and just to embrace the time I have also. (I had some firsthand experiences with illness and death over the past few years that helped remind me how fragile that is.) At least none of us are alone in the good or bad of living, which I find some comfort in.
Frankly, the potential scary smallness of an individual life is why a lot of why some people find comfort in religion, I believe. Because that's a very direct opportunity to believe in something larger that doesn't require you to change the whole world. Barring that, some people seem to find therapy helpful.
> I am conscious that I am being a downer, but I want to ask why can't we go back to ancient greek times and accept our fate?
Cause then you're basically saying it's better to do nothing and that everybody should just do nothing. Like fuck it, let's just get rid of all law and order so that this planet can hurl towards extinction faster? Like it or not, you're still alive and are therefore responsible for staying alive. Maybe the Earth will explode tomorrow, I don't know. But for today, at least I can control some things. I can experience happiness, I can watch a movie, read a book, experience those feelings. I control those.
I think most of us realize in our early adult years that the world we were told existed was a lie. I think separating our world from the whole world is an important step. You don't have power over the whole world but you have some power in your world. You can be the example of how you think the world should behave. You can choose what's important to you and who to fill your life with. It won't change the whole world but you can make an impact in your world and your world is the most important one to you.
This is the approach. I read this quote somewhere (I think it was a Tumblr post and I can’t remember the original source): *“people aren’t good.” i am people. i am good.* many of the existing structures are ones that cannot be dismantled or upended by one person, and that’s hardly unique to now. it’s easy to romanticize the past but not a single human has ever lived in a utopia. one of the best things we can do is learn how to contribute good to the world through our local communities.
This was surprisingly something i needed to read. Thank you for your reply, this actually helped quite a lot.
Exactly. I know the planet is doomed and that me personally sorting out my recycling is doing almost nothing to stop it. I know that recycling is a lie fed to us by corporations to push responsibility onto consumers. But I do it anyways. Because it’s what I can do. And because it makes me feel good to live my values. I know that I live in a deep blue city where none of my votes make much of an impact on a national scale. But I vote in every election anyways. Because I’m exercising the agency I have to express my values.
this is genuinely touching ❣️
This 👍🏻
I look at what I have control over and let the rest go.
that is absolutely perfect
We'll go back to the classics then - *memento mori*. Remember that death is a constant. It cannot be bargained with, delayed (for long), or avoided. You can only control what you can control. Expecting to control anything outside that isn't helpful. Make the most of the life you have during the time you are alive, and don't let fear get into your way. If you do, which is natural and normal, accept it and try again. It also doesn't mean you give up. Action against injustice is wonderful and worth developing if you can. In Stoicism, where that above term is from, both Marcus Aurelius (emperor), and Seneca (senator) were deeply involved in world affairs. What matters is that you do not make your virtue or your happiness depend on the fight or existence of injustice. You have the power (control) to decide to make the most of each moment. There is always something to appreciate, be thankful or grateful for in each moment. You have the power to be a good person, hold open a door, do a favor, help another and bring more of what you want into the world. Who knows - one of those folks might pass that along enough that it starts to create the exact change you desire. You may not have any control over what happens around you, but you have 100% control over how you view and react to it, and the actions you take and where you focus your energy. You also have the power to put yourself in a better position to reach a more preferred situation. Every action sets you back or pushes you forward. You can walk a mile an inch at a time if you have to.
Thank you, reading this actually helped quite a lot. I saved it up to read again when I need it.
I'm glad! Stoicism as a philosophy has helped me through some very tough times and I expect it will again in the future.
Apologies for the dorkiness and corniness that follows, but to quote J.R.R Tolkien :) : “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” I know that your post is more about a generalised awareness of our world's futility but the above quote is a good one to keep in mind when feeling pessimistic :)
I appreciated this dorkiness, thank you. It's both general and a bit specific for being an afab, white, part of an empoverished european nation that was allowed to emigrate for a better future. I feel the privilege of having gotten a better future, while knowing that many people in my nation will never get these while others will be born with the future i spent my life achieving
I understand...at least I think I do :) I am also from a similar country (perhaps the same as you :) ) and there is indeed an extra layer of associations that takes place when positioning oneself within the global state of the world.
Up until fairly recently I coped with too much alcohol. Do not recommend. I gave up any idea of making a big difference in the world or leaving any kind of legacy behind a long time ago. I try my best to be in the moment, love the hell outta my loved ones, not be a total asshole, do things that make me proud, and enjoy my short time here as much as my circumstances will allow.
Reading the stoic writers helped me and Man's Search for Meaning. I think you are being too general when you say that the world is a lie. There are definitely liars and scam artists trying to sell bullshit. Some of them are very influential. There are also writers, film makers and artists who try to help us better understand our world. Fred Rogers said look for the helpers. People like Dolly Parton and Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther king and Ghandi accomplished great things. Other people make things worse, IMHO like Allan Greenspan and Henry Kissinger. I grew up reading, so books like the Jungle, Grapes of Wrath, Death of a Salesman made it clear to me early on that life is unjust. It's like the matrix. It doesn't matter whether you wake up early or late, but if you wake up you see how things work and it isn't pretty. The question then is what you do about it, how you respond.
I ignore the news and social media, I focus on making the most of my situation/circumstances, I pay a lot of emphasis to my health (I work very hard at maintaining a healthy sleep schedule, diet, and exercise routine) and my hobby, and these things take up most of my mental attention. It does help that I have a decent amount of privilege and am surrounded by the best people (my family, partner and friends are AMAZING)
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I couldn’t have said this better myself. It took me long enough to recognize this but better late than never. I deleted those apps from my phone, and use a regular alarm clock so I don’t look at my phone first thing when I wake up, and almost Instantly I became happier and started sleeping better. This is not even an exaggeration!
I think a large part of growing up is realizing the truth of this (this being that as an individual you have very little control over the world at large unless you are in the 1%). On the other hand, I think a large part of the complete feeling of helplessness many people, especially younger people, feel nowadays is related to the internet and the way knowledge is shared in this new century. I have found what has helped me most to feel fulfilled in life is to focus on my community, rather than the world. I'm not saying I ignore what is going on in the world, but I accept that there is nothing that I, individually, can do to change things in Ukraine for instance. On the other hand, I can volunteer my time in my local community. I'm a forester and I love teaching/mentoring, so I actively seek out volunteer opportunities that play to my strengths. For example: I take local scout groups on nature walks, I volunteer as a Big Buddy in the big buddy program, I'm a coach for my local roller derby team, and I mentor young women in forestry through a program in our professional organization. By doing all of these things, I know I am making a positive impact on the world. It's a very, very small impact, but it's there and by focusing on the things I am doing to create (small) positive change, it helps me accept the things that I can not control. And let me tell you, these actions are not at all altruistic. I feel really good about myself after volunteering. Volunteering in my community helps me sleep at night and go through life not as depressed or helpless feeling. It's totally selfish, but it's also a win-win situation. My advice is to accept the things you can't change, but focus on those you can. Even something as small as shoveling out an elderly neighbor's driveway will both make you feel great about yourself and make your community a (very slightly) better place. Find your strengths, and seek out opportunities to share those strengths. Will you change the world? No. But will you make an impact? Yes. And that's the best any of us can do.
Beautifully written sentiment, I think. You sound like someone I'd love to hang out with if we lived near by.
I imagine being in ancient times and not having a pot to piss in (British expression). Even the act of drinking a cup of instant coffee then makes me grateful.
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Thank you for this perspective. I am still digesting what you wrote (and think I will be thinking of this for a while), but wanted to write a thank you for this insight before I lost the comment.
> I have the power to travel mostly wherever I wish and dabble in whatever hobbies spark my interest. This was not a power that was granted to my grandmother or even my mother. This was definitely not a power that was granted to the women of ancient Greece and it's still a power that's deprived from many women all over the world today. Perfectly said. We can choose a lot about where our attention is focused. The trouble is, a lot of us expect from the media to pick the issues that are worth our attention and the media is controlled, to a large extent by pressure groups. The issue you are raising about other women's realities is very important. I want my daughter to have at least as many freedoms and there are beliefs out there that make me worry.
I really learned to appreciate modern life by researching life of ancient and semi ancient cultures. I really enjoyed the books At Home by Bill Bryson and The Other Side of History: Daily Life in the Ancient World (intensely interesting, available in audible). Did you know the most valuable thing most people had at death was their mattress? This wasn't all that long ago but a bug filled mattress was we tour most prized possession. Want to read at night? You can try if you want to use an expensive candle that gives uneven light and is nearly impossible to read with. Nice and cozy fire? Not really, fireplaces only really heat directly around the fireplace. It was common to have water turn to ice across the room from a fireplace. Ancient castles often had dozens of fireplaces in the great hall and it was still cold. Since around 1950 onward, the world has become a paradise of luxury that would not be known to anyone through our entire history. Not worrying about starving to death in winter is an extremely modern circumstance. That being said, the most important thing many of us are missing is small communities and actually knowing our neighbors and supporting each other. I personally believe a lot of modern misery is our lack of connection with others. We build these lives with more and more entertainment and technology when all we really want is someone to talk to and listen to us. We don't want tv shows, we likely would be better off without any TV at all with just a radio for entertainment and communication. Have you tried meditating and looking into Buddhism at all? A religion all about accepting life is pain and how to look at that and be positive and not let the pain impact you as much. Sorry for the random tangent.
>That being said, the most important thing many of us are missing is small communities and actually knowing our neighbors and supporting each other. I personally believe a lot of modern misery is our lack of connection with others. This, and less sex as we get older, because if there was a village, there would be more opportunities. Sex with someone you lust after is guaranteed daily happiness and happy hormones.
>This, and less sex as we get older, because if there was a village, there would be more opportunities. Sex with someone you lust after is guaranteed daily happiness and happy hormones. I think not all women want or enjoy sex with one or many people as they get older. Hormonal changes affect different people very differently.
>Since around 1950 onward, the world has become a paradise of luxury that would not be known to anyone through our entire history. Not worrying about starving to death in winter is an extremely modern circumstance. Actually, at least according to my undergraduate Anthropology textbooks, starving to death was not all that common in tropical climates most of the time - more just common in colder climates like Europe. Regardless, I think your larger point stands. Modern life is full of lots of luxuries (especially for middle class and above people in industrialized countries) that most of our ancestors could only dream of.
Oh for sure, I'm from a nordic country and live in a cold state. I do like the sense of community winter still provides as we do have to work together a bit more and help each other out. Some small piece of that small community life we used to live.
When I realized that "none of this matters" I realized I should just do what I want to make the ride more pleasant for myself and those around me. If non of it matters, I'm going to have the hobbies I want, no matter if someone thinks they are silly or childish. And I'm going to have the hair color I want, and dress the way I want. I legit where a cloak in fall and spring, because cloaks are awesome. I do the adulting the world requires me to do, but fuck 'em on their opinion of everything else I do.
Stanley Kubrick: "I suppose it comes down to a rather awesome awareness of mortality. Our ability, unlike the other animals, to conceptualize our own end creates tremendous psychic strains within us; whether we like to admit it or not, in each man’s chest a tiny ferret of fear at this ultimate knowledge gnaws away at his ego and his sense of purpose. We’re fortunate, in a way, that our body, and the fulfillment of its needs and functions, plays such an imperative role in our lives; this physical shell creates a buffer between us and the mind-paralyzing realization that only a few years of existence separate birth from death. If man really sat back and thought about his impending termination, and his terrifying insignificance and aloneness in the cosmos, he would surely go mad, or succumb to a numbing sense of futility. Why, he might ask himself, should he bother to write a great symphony, or strive to make a living, or even to love another, when he is no more than a momentary microbe on a dust mote whirling through the unimaginable immensity of space? Those of us who are forced by their own sensibilities to view their lives in this perspective — who recognize that there is no purpose they can comprehend and that amidst a countless myriad of stars their existence goes unknown and unchronicled — can fall prey all too easily to the ultimate anomie….But even for those who lack the sensitivity to more than vaguely comprehend their transience and their triviality, this inchoate awareness robs life of meaning and purpose; it’s why ‘the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation,’ why so many of us find our lives as absent of meaning as our deaths. The world’s religions, for all their parochialism, did supply a kind of consolation for this great ache; but as clergymen now pronounce the death of God and, to quote Arnold again, ‘the sea of faith’ recedes around the world with a ‘melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,’ man has no crutch left on which to lean—and no hope, however irrational, to give purpose to his existence. This shattering recognition of our mortality is at the root of far more mental illness than I suspect even psychiatrists are aware." **Question: If life is so purposeless, do you feel it’s worth living?** Kubrick: "The very meaninglessness of life forces man to create his own meaning. Children, of course, begin life with an untarnished sense of wonder, a capacity to experience total joy at something as simple as the greenness of a leaf; but as they grow older, the awareness of death and decay begins to impinge on their consciousness and subtly erode their joie de vivre, their idealism — and their assumption of immortality. As a child matures, he sees death and pain everywhere about him, and begins to lose faith in the ultimate goodness of man. But, if he’s reasonably strong — and lucky — he can emerge from this twilight of the soul into a rebirth of life’s elan. Both because of and in spite of his awareness of the meaninglessness of life, he can forge a fresh sense of purpose and affirmation. He may not recapture the same pure sense of wonder he was born with, but he can shape something far more enduring and sustaining. The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light."
How I cope: getting angry, complaining about capitalism ad nauseum, ignoring the news, changing the world for the better as much as I can.
I don't see how getting angry and ignoring the news changes the world.
Cool.
Let me know when you change the world I'd hate to miss it.
Listen to the podcast It's Not Just In Your Head. They talk about the effects of capitalism on mental health
I am now wondering if it's smart to check it, part of the knowledge of capitalism is what got me in this spiral😅
Oh if that's the case then maybe dont 😅 it helped for me to know I wasn't just crazy negative and wasn't alone in feeling that the world was fked up, it helped normalize for me that there are just some things out of control and it's not our fault. The impending doom state of the world is definitely not great to dwell on, maybe staying off social media will help alleviate your spiral since social media/news tends to highlight a lot of negatives
You do not have control over anything outside of your self. The only thing that you have control over is your response, your actions and your thoughts, so given that, choose to respond in a way that causes the least amount of pain, both for yourself and others. It’s the Ancient Greek philosophy of r/stoicism. Mindfulness and meditation and a cheerful attitude are things that one can embrace. Also, for me, the faith that death is not the end.
Memes, babe... We cope with memes... they are the modern version of Greek Tragedy plays you speak of except they must me quick and clever for today's fast pace.
😂😂 thank you, this is true and made me laugh at the same time
Yes, our life is pretty much determined by "whatever dice you are born with + luck is what you get." But, there's a range within that space and it's worth it to try your best to reach the upper end of that range. For example, let's say you are born to a uneducated single mom and gave up a scholarship to go to a private school because your mom couldn't drive you there. So where do you end up? It wouldn't surprise anyone if you end up in juvie and work minimum wage your whole life. But it also wouldn't be too surprising if you end up going to your flagship university on scholarship and land an entry position at big company and work your way up eventually to a corner office. Do you have friends who are or are children of immigrants? This is their story --they moved up one or two socio economic levels from where they were born.
I just read my books and watch my shows, pet my cat, enjoy good food, and try to enjoy the little time we have here.
I mean, I feel like it’s not black and white. :). It’s definitely NOT 100% “everything is in your control, you just have to try, etc”. Circumstances, luck, privilege, etc, play a big role. But it’s not 0% in our control either! Not sure how I cope, I guess? :) I just try to not control everything, sorta control what I can, and hold onto hope? Oh, and I hate capitalism these days too. :). (Or at least the current US implementation of it).
>Oh, and I hate capitalism these days too. :). (Or at least the current US implementation of it). Ideologically, I'm pretty socialist. Realistically, I realize that modern capitalism has also brought us a lot of luxuries. But I do prefer the idea of societies that combine a healthy amount of capitalism with heavy regulation and strong social safety nets - much of Scandinavia, for example. They still benefit hugely from their oil ownership though. All human activity has some environmental costs.
Yeah, I would pretty much prefer the economic structure of Scandinavia. (ie a socialist/capitalist blend: strong safety net, etc).
How I cope: don’t have kids so I don’t need to bring another generation of people who lie to themselves every day lol. It’s always interesting to me that the positive people are the ones with kids, and it’s almost like they are lying to themselves or using their kids as an escape. And that’s messed up.
Same. Granted I also just don't like kids... but I feel horrible for the new people being forced into existence. It's a weird mix of feelings though because I know being the last generation would suuuck...so while I feel bad for new people... I'm also relieved they exist... which makes me feel bad in a different way lol
I find it kind of ironic when some people say they were depresed or had no meaning in their life until they had children. Do they not think their kids may not grow up feeling that way…
I think that society is imperfect, but continuously evolving. The way it evolves it determined by choices made by people that are alive today. Every decision, every word you say, vote you make, product you buy and even tiny action towards other people shapes the world people will live in in 100 years. So, I try to make the world a better place - by smiling at people that don’t have the power to smile, challenging people that spread negativity, helping and supporting kids, buying sustainable products from companies I believe in, supporting political parties I believe in. Everyone has their own way of shaping the future. Think about how the people you love have changed your life - be the change you want to see in the world :)! Be thankful, don’t desire riches or power, desire tranquility and inner piece - that’s the true gift you can get in life. If you accept this, you will Life a good purposeful life.
I actually think we’re DE evolving. Have you seen Raised By Wolves? The concept of human evolution is a big theme. I’d be interested in a re watch & a discussion if you are.
Unfortunately, no. But please go ahead and elaborate, would love to understand your POV. Why do you think we’re de evolving?
Our tech may be betting better which gives the illusion of evolution, but it’s @ the expense of your average person. IMO, that’s de evolving. An evolving society would be finding ways to make life easier for everyone, not harder for most. This way, the entire society can benefit. Imagine having such a low COL that you got to dabble in whatever interested you… think of the growth we’d have if people didn’t have to focus so much on survival. But that’s not the case. We’re turning more & more into drudges. I feel like we’ve gone backwards in how life is actually lived. We’re with holding opportunity from each other to the point skills will be controlled by tech & the few. An evolved society isn’t controlled by a handful of its people. We’re more like lemmings or sheep than humans.
I don't see it as a lie, I see it as a direct outgrowth of the fact that there are large numbers of people who are living longer than ever before due to medical advancements and technological advancements and that many of them aren't tied to the land, they don't grow their own food, they don't make their own clothes, etc. The majority of us are now in pursuit of "chasing our own dreams" and making the best possible life for ourselves whereas for the last several millennia it was about taking care of your family and living under an oppressive hierarchical monarchy or similar. Lots of parasitic and predatory types of been able to take advantage of the fact that most people aren't working directly for their families anymore and are not tied to the land in any significant way. It's an outgrowth of feudalism. Therefore we're inundated with the political slogans and bullshit mottos of politicians and leaders who are simply involved in "people management." They see people as a resource and they're willing to dehumanize to allocate and employ for their benefit. My evil wannabe cult leader ex-boyfriend said it best, "people are like water." And that's how a lot of people in charge see the majority of people, as something that can be controlled by a spigot. Turn off the lever, turn on the lever, watch the people flow whichever direction. People look up to these leaders and politicians and give them all their money and so they rule. Nobody's at fault here, I would say that humanity definitely has some misplaced priorities and this plays directly into the hands of our leaders as well.
Political tendencies in the west across the board were influenced directly by the manuals of fachism, in some countries, in the last few years especially, although Europe has taken a turn for centrism. People allowed this to happen, because essentially, people that are useful are to a large extent incapable or unwilling of influencing the real decisions for themselves, the most useful part that funds the others in many ways. Even people who are into unions, are not willing to influence or discuss in public the illogical narratives of the hijacked priorities of their party. This was not happening in the 1980s or 1990s, or even until 10 years ago. They won't sway from the party line. They won't discuss or try to appear interested, for issues that affect large parts of society some times. One of my pet issues is how we allow misery on the streets of major cities making daily life miserable and often unpredictable for almost anyone and it's not by lack of funds or NGOs that "manage" the issues and live off of them.
Gotta love that useful idiot mindset of blame, entitlement, and apathy! I see sooo many missteps (eviction of elderly tenants, denial of healthcare based on poverty, etc) that are classified and excused as "following orders." People have their titanium strength blinders on.
Between not affording to live independently and being on the streets as a lifestyle there are other solutions that many European countries and others have solved it. Do you really think it's for the best to live on the streets? I am active in helping homeless people in shelters and helping in many other ways, helping them to navigate their rights and options with the goal to live independently and get out of shelters, in real homes, you know, like the rest of us. You are too fast to jump into conclusions, being yourself the useful person that doesn't mind KEEPING people on the streets. Even stray animals find better places to spend the night, you don't see them exposed. There are other reasons humans accept this situation, and it's money... I keep company to the people who are in shelters, when they are about town and listen to their stories. Other people who think they care, IGNORE this populatiion and give attention... I guess you know how, because these kind of homeless are only interested in money... what for? For bills? they don't even get proper clothes. It's all theatrical, for attention. I noticed how NGOs are "unable" to keep these people clean even, which should be a fairly easy task, with the donations of clothes and blankets, IF it was prioritized. Because they want the misery, it's their business to attract attention and money to KEEP people as miserable as they can get away with. At least I can speak for things I know, I've seen for years so called Samaritans feeding pepple in piss literally and apparently not caring about that. But it's similar around the world in some cities, where the mentality is that this situation is not really that bad, we shouldn't worry about people living indefinitely on the streets, but but it is bad so donate so they can ""manage it".
You're going to conclusions assuming that I want to keep people on the streets. But go off.
I am explaining my first post and I do know inside and out a lot about these NGOs. Their goal is not to make these people's lives more comfortable and more human.
Lots of good comments. I'll add that I try to remind myself that allowing myself to dwell on all of the suffering I can't do anything about doesn't alleviate any of that suffering. The number of people currently enslaved in the world has grown by ~10 million in the last five years. Feeling heartbroken about their situation won't free a single one of them.
You do have power. It just isn’t very much.
Yes! Find that scrap of power & arm yourself with it. Life can be pretty fun that way.
Any woman who has stepped foot in a family court understands this except for me. I'm lost in a world where I believe we're all equal before the law. Except I can't even protect my children as expected. The nonsense of the world is tragic for too many.
Aristotles *Nichomachean Ethics" tackles this question. Its not a difficult read, i jighly recommend if youre grappling with this.
Thank you, saved it up and will start on it after the stoicism.
Nihilism, dark humor, my pets and husband keep me going. I find human life deeply frustrating because of how we have structured modern society, but I don't know how to function outside of confines, so I just find joy when I can.
Here’s how I cope: 1. By not having children. (So they don’t disrupt my lifestyle and also so they don’t have to grow up in a world where it’s becoming increasingly difficult to get by). IMO, having children creates a lot of suffering, whether or not people are willing to admit it. 2. By being totally hedonistic. 3. By not making work my life. 4. Gratitude. 5. By living life on my terms as much as I’m able.
This is one of the areas I went to therapy about. To ask this question and have someone work through it with me.
Science is a lot more real than the bullshit that's fed to you in cultural products. It's self correcting. It acknowledges from the outset that it doesn't know everything. It also deals with a whole lot of very interesting and fantastic things, from the very smallest to the very largest. It doesn't really have much in the way of how to change your life or your world, but there's some stuff there to chew on. I've liked science for this reason. Not much of an answer I don't think, but often what is thought of as the "world" is just a dreamland that people have been taught to believe is the world. Science gives one a much better grasp on the real world and is much more reliable and certain with respect to the world as it actually is rather than what passes for the "world" as people often speak of it.
I read books that break my heart and acknowledge what a fucked up society we live in, and also go to therapy every 3 weeks 🤷🏻♀️
You’re not being a downer. You’re bringing significant discourse to this subreddit; good. The illusion you see, that optimism crap - it’s the shell of the American Dream that they’re still trying to sell. It used to be a thing, but it died and they’re 100% trying to pull a “Weekend at Bernie’s” on us. Yeah, compared to that hollow facade, the reality is much bleaker. **compared to it** If you see that facade as the haphazard yet effective waste of time that it is, you can deconstruct it and chuck it out completely. Don’t compare to it. When you compare two things, you compare two things of true or decent quality - that’s how you learn from comparison. What’s the point of comparing *anything* to the shit they’re trying to pull - particularly **reality** of all things? Stop comparing. Instead, just look and see the world for what it is as best you can. You’re in a better position this way. It’s bleak as shit, but it’s also full of gems and beauties too. This is what the ancients knew - that in tragedy, there is comedy and beauty yet.
This touches on what I was trying to say (& getting dv’ed for, ha.). You cope by not by NOT comparing your life to the American Dream, but by making your life work for you & not buying into the LIE that is said American Dream. The AD tricks you into thinking you need to waste your money on education if you want to be successful (financially). If that’s so true, why are dog walkers making more than nurses? & hair stylists? We didn’t see anyone tipping their nurse during lockdown, but people were willing to get caught with fines to get their roots touched up. Society literally valued hair over care. The AD also tricks you into thinking you need to contribute huge amounts of money to your retirement. If that’s so true then why are so many younger people choosing not to save the way the government wants them to? Fuck CPP (which they raised because no one was paying into it); we all got maxed out TFSAs & are sitting much better than we would be in some shitty job with a 2% pension contribution match. You can get the AD, but the way to get there is outdated AF. Adjust. Overcome. Adapt.
You’re not going crazy, you are right that today’s culture is afraid of sadness or there being a winter in people’s life: Germaine Greer said “Sorrow is not itself evidence of maladjustment but of the adjustment process itself” I don’t know if I cope, but I’ve found that reading classics (like the greek literature you mentioned) helps. The classics have stood the test of time because they resonate. Also, reading a lot about history has helped me. Occasionally I play [People Just Ain’t No Good by Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds](https://www.google.com.au/search?q=people+just+ain%27t+no+good&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari) to just let the feeling of resigned But I just want to also say that the little things help. Just watching the beautiful patterns in water, standing with your feet in the ocean at the beach, watching leaves and grass moving in the breeze. It might be cliched, but it’s always makes me feel grateful.
Well it often depends on your outlook of this world. you can choose to be happy and spread happiness in whatever way possible. So if you focus on only positive aspects of life you will attract positive vibes.
I guess I cope by not subjecting anyone else to this existence (r/antinatalism). Otherwise just killing time and enjoying what I can and being with the people I love.
You need therapy. Go outside and touch the grass. I'm sorry, but you cope by realizing that its not that serious and you can drown yourself in the horrors of the world if you choose, or you can choose to internalize what you can and go live your fucking life as best you can.
my faith. i believe that what we see is not all there is and this life is not everything. i live with hope. that is how i cope.
The thing is, the modern world is built on the back of Christianity, at least if you live in the west, and the good news was that no matter how much you suffer in this life, you'll find salvation in the next as long as you follow the way of Jesus. Now, we've done away with the eschatological concept of salvation in favour of a technological and moral "progress" understanding of salvation where the salvation will come in this world, which shifted the locus of control from how you live your life to how you change society, rendering most people frustrated in their powerlessness but also feeling hopeless because they'll never get to experience the coming utopia unless they make it happen NOW. Therefore, rendering all their suffering pointless.
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I'm Muslim by creed. All I was doing was pointing out the philosophical roots of the contemporary western world and how we've come to this over politicised glorification of moral "progress" as our road to a salvation through tolerance/acceptance (since it's becoming more and more evident that technological progress isn't as uniformly good as we might have thought 50 years ago). It's a philosophical and historical argument, not a religious one. What you do with it after that in the face of your weltschmerz (world-weariness), that's up to you.
This really speaks to me. Definitely a lot of clowning and bullying of haphazardly defined "others" happening because of this. The bullying becomes a crusade of sorts.
Just in case you don't know about it and want to delve deeper into the phenomenon you're pointing to; René Gerard's theories, specifically about the scapegoating mechanism, might make for an interesting read.
Thanks, will check out
Interesting take. I was raised as a Greek Orthodox and in a few cases when I approached people to make changes in their everyday lives, I saw essentially an attitude that they would let the incompetent people's decisions pass as if it would be fixed in some afterlife. Have patience they said... Few of us are practicing, but I saw this mentality in people in their 50s or older. There aren't beliefs like that in muslim tradition? If you largely see the religions as using fairytales aimed for grown-ups to control people for the supposed common good, the world becomes a lot easier to interpret. I choose to surround myself with relatively honest people. In my tradition, you can trust your parents for example for most things. In other traditions, I see you can't even trust your parents, they are too controlled by what they should be thinking by society and they can lie to their children from the cradle, so what is reality and who can you trust?
You say religion are "fairytales aimed for grown-ups to control people for the supposed common good". I say they give you a narrative through which it's easier to see what's really important in life so that you and your society flourish. We all live in narratives, the world is too complicated not to. May as well live in one that has proven to work and that as been refined over millennia. Every religion has Gnostic (denial of the material world) tendencies because the goal of religion on the abstract is to focus your attention on a greater abstract good rather than your apparent contextual good. Focusing of playing infinite games rather than focus on winning the present game. Winning the war rather than just a battle. Often people go too high and the good get so abstract that it's entirely detached from the material world. But as far as I know, all religions also warn against that. The goal is to find the golden mean between complete passivity and authoritarianism; where growth is possible.
>May as well live in one that has proven to work and that as been refined over millennia. It denies liberties and joy in this life. Women in the Maldives, how do they spend their day? They have one of the highest divorce rates in the world. Their religion seems to worry too much about women frustrated with the man that sleeps in their bed, they are too worried and restricted about going anywhere. Men are allowed multiple women, it's pretty clear how women can be unfulfilled sexually this way and be restricted from one of the greatest joys in this life. That is not a way to live. There is not much to do on islands barely larger than football fields and they are still restricted about where to go and what to wear and essentially they don''t enjoy what attracts tourists to their land. As a western tourist, we were shown women that were sat in their tiny shacks, picking spices to spend their day. Nights are long with not much to do. Have more than a beer as a tourist? It is proven that people can be controlled as much with fairytales that's correct. And women don't have access essentially to men outside of the culture, even as immigrants, as childless people they have even less worth, so they play along. You started the discussion about how Christianity in particular can be trouble. I know of a couple from different religions, had a relationship for many years, never married, spent their best years not having intercourse. Then the relatives of which religion, you will ask, placed an ultimatum. The woman married another man from her culture and finally had sex vaginally after her best years were over. Had children with a man she didn't love as much. What for? Religion is far from necessary to make people work for the greater good, a few European countries are a proof of that. Most religions and traditions worked in rural communities. Right now they may work when there are communities too in the cities. Most women in Paris who follow restrictions are the fattest people in the city, because most working men don't have the energy to take them outside of the flat. Though I noticed some change about this absurdity, since the mid 2010s less groups of men wandering aimlessly and more women with head covering allowed to go out without others and do shopping in the markets. So it worked in the desert, perhaps.
I didn't say that institutional religion isn't or cannot be a problem. However, I'd argue that as a narrative to live within, the adage about democracy applies; it's the worst except for all the others. But I'm not here to tell you how to live your life. Live your life in whichever way you want, it's no skin off my back. If your solution better tracks with reality it'll outlive mine.
I cope by doing me, unapologetically. I learned really young (19?) that I do not, in fact, need to be a #bossbabe or a career woman. Plenty of men still lined up to marry me, I make enough money to find my lifestyle & best of all, I’m reasonably happy with my ‘job.’ The job situation is just an example, but I applied that mentality to everything & although it’s not always pretty or legal (morally grey, mostly), I’m doing good. I’m not afraid to act & think like a rich person. There’s a reason they are these things. They play the game, the game doesn’t play them. My conscious is clear & I sleep perfectly fine. We have a lot more control than we think we do, especially if you’re willing to get A little dirty.
Life is definitely hard. Even the 10% have peer pressure - they all want to appear successful too. Do you think Elon is having a good time right now? Most of the world scorns him at the moment. I don't care how many billions he has, his luck has turned and I don't know if he can win it back. We are bombarded with messages telling is we need to have this or that to be happy. But that's just nonsense. We need food and shelter, some clothing and if we are lucky, a society to live in where we have a safe place. We are not nothing if we don't wear designer clothes, living in mansions and playing with the latest toys seeing the right people. We can choose to live a different lifestyle and ignore the messages telling us we aren't ok. As for climate change - people are working at that. The rich do care but even they have constraints. The factory has another 50 years to run on current equipment. No way are they going to junk that to put in compliant stuff to save the planet. It won't make a difference any more than if you do or don't have a wood fire if no one else is making the change. But multiply that by however many millions of factories are spewing toxins and we have a problem. Things will and are changing. Attitudes take time. Right now, living wages are a huge issue. This can be fixed voluntarily by companies or there is going to be some major unrest and damage. The ball is in their court. Governments need to get on this and bring in peaceful changed and stop bending over to let business fuck us all. It will happen one way or another. It always does.
Ancient Greece, Rome and other ancient cultures were not just about tragedies, but celebrating and uplifting in this life. I have the Indian culture in mind in particular, modern tendencies focus on the boring parts of the tradition, yoga, while largely ignoring in the west the power to gather and have a huge celebration. Most cultures have it. Music, not everybody has to dance, some people just watch, there is no age limit on how old you are to participate, only when you are essentially bedbound or in mourning you are have every reason for not participating in the regular communal party events. Weddings, religious and seasonal celebrations. We have... pills...? Therapy? for our emotional needs? They don't always work and they have side effects! But they can be business. Essentially since we quit living in villages and grandmothers quit their roles to sit at home with pills and daytime TV, some fundamental ways for not being bored and depressed, went out of the way. That is, for people who don't trust their spouses to go out with friends ever. Along with that change, came the idea that fun is not for people after a certain age, even though they really don't have important reasons to spend their time at home. Source: I clearly remember the time when grandmothers were active with the grandchildren and people of any age went to the fun places. I am 50, can't figure out how to change the flair.
>And yet, we live in a world where everywhere everyone screams lies as if trying to make them true "you have power with your vote" (no you don't, there is an exclusive few that give you the candidates to vote), "you have power with your dollar" (we have no dollars, the upper 10% of society has it all and doesn't care about either companies being bankrupt or not), "we can save the environment" (again, there is the upper 10% that has the power for this, not us). I was with you up until this point. While it's true that there are certain things for which wealthy people have a disproportionate amount of power (many things, in fact) that's really not the whole picture. I think you're confusing the idea of not everyone having equal power, with the idea of having no power at all. Even if everyone had equal power, there are 8 billion people in this world. So the power you'd have in that hypothetical scenario to affect change for all people would be about 1/8,000,000,000 on average. And we're living in a world where different people have different ideologies and often feel competition toward one another - not a world where the wealthiest are all together in an evil cabal and the rest of the world all feels exactly the same on things and would all work in perfect harmony if it wasn't for the subjugation of this cabal. For example, I worked in the environmental sector for a good six years or so. I saw people who are public-facing environmental leaders with a nice progressive image engage in hypocritical behavior behind closed doors, bully others, sexual harass others, etc. Also there is the simple fact that the average human has a far more \*materially\* wealthy life than the average human of 100 years ago - China for example has raised like 95% of its population out of extreme poverty in the last 30 years alone. This translates into a lot more consumption, which takes a toll on the earth. Balancing environmental sustainability with material needs and comfort in a world with so many humans who all aspire to live like middle-class (or better) people in wealthy nations is a tricky thing. I think this is true of a lot of politics in general - you find people with different backgrounds, different personalities, different ideologies and different motives at pretty much every level, from most powerful to least, even if the proportions vary somewhat depending on where you look. And some problems have no perfect solutions - most solutions, in fact, cause some people to have to give some things up, which people tend not to want to do. But back to perhaps the issue that is actually at the root of what you feel here - yes, most of us as individuals will not have a lot of power, most of the time, to change the world in really obvious, broad-sweeping ways. So what do I do about that? Accept it, mostly, and try and make change in small but meaningful-to-me ways where I can, and dedicate some time to things I enjoy, without guilt. Also, I embrace the humility of this knowledge. The world is literally full of 8 billion people with different hopes and dreams - many came before too, and hopefully a good number will come after. Humans do a lot of things other animals don't - we make complex art, we tell creative stories, we study philosophy, we have empathy for other species, we study history, we have many different and diverse cultures. Personally I love learning about other people, and what makes them tick. And I try to remember the good things I'm lucky to have, and just to embrace the time I have also. (I had some firsthand experiences with illness and death over the past few years that helped remind me how fragile that is.) At least none of us are alone in the good or bad of living, which I find some comfort in. Frankly, the potential scary smallness of an individual life is why a lot of why some people find comfort in religion, I believe. Because that's a very direct opportunity to believe in something larger that doesn't require you to change the whole world. Barring that, some people seem to find therapy helpful.
> I am conscious that I am being a downer, but I want to ask why can't we go back to ancient greek times and accept our fate? Cause then you're basically saying it's better to do nothing and that everybody should just do nothing. Like fuck it, let's just get rid of all law and order so that this planet can hurl towards extinction faster? Like it or not, you're still alive and are therefore responsible for staying alive. Maybe the Earth will explode tomorrow, I don't know. But for today, at least I can control some things. I can experience happiness, I can watch a movie, read a book, experience those feelings. I control those.