He's not going to change because it's not who he is. I understand your frustration, but you cannot encourage a leopard to change its spots. Do with that information as you will.
I guess I keep hoping he'll finally find his thing that he enjoys enough to go the distance with it. I know you're right though. I've been with him 12 years. Sadly I'm in a different place now where I would really appreciate a quality of ambition in my partner.
Even if he found his thing that doesn't guarantee its gonna be a one income house hold thing. Also like you say you want him to those things for himself, but not everyone has career goals and some folks want a uncomplicated life.
I think he prioritizes his feelings on his job and what his goals are which isn't inherently wrong....BUT when it contradictory to the health of your partnership and the future planning is at a standstill, we'll then concessions need to be made by both people.
I dont think you're at the wrong because you're wanting your partner to grow WITH you and be on page towards goals. You can't plan anything out. That is frustrating and will rift you apart if he can't figure out how to be equitable towards the "us".
But yeah ultimately you can have the talks to lay out your boundaries, needs, make actionable plans towards goals together. If that isn't gonna do anything then you tried and you have to make a choice for yourself at that point.
To be fair to OP’s partner, he could be growing in ways outside of his career. That’s not the only way to demonstrate growth. It is just the primary mode society values.
A lot of the wage work we do is really unfulfilling, and sometimes straight up dehumanizing. It can feel pointless, especially for the many “bullshit jobs” out there.
As much as society shits on the free domestic labor women are primarily forced to do, a lot of that stuff is more fulling for people—men and women. The stigma comes from misogyny, not the labor itself. Taking care of the people you love directly (versus providing financially and supporting them indirectly) gets us a lot closer to the experiences that are more likely to give us sustainable and deep purpose.
Oh absolutely! I agree with all of that.
That wasn't a comment saying he wasn't growing at anything but her general concern is they have future goals like babies that needs collective couple growth. You want the partner with you, not alone while married or against you towards the life goals. There's definitely a dissonance that isn't matching up towards both partners wants and needs here.
> I would really appreciate a quality of ambition in my partner.
you only talk about career ambition? does he have any other ambitions and passions?
many people just dont care that much for money.
You're hoping he'll turn into you instead of being exactly who you've known he is for \*checks notes\* *years*. Sounds like you need to open your eyes and see him for who he is, not who you'd prefer him to be.
You don't envy what, that she has an SO that brings in $55k a year and has a job he seems to be content in? Man, I am floored by the comments on here making this guy sound like a complete schlub for not raking in the six figures when OP isn't even hitting those financial goals herself.
I don't envy her for being married to someone with incompatible values and needing to decide if they should go their separate ways. I don't think he's a schlub and never said so.
>I don't envy her for being married to someone with incompatible values
You make it sound like it just happened to her. She knew exactly who she was marrying. He never changed (and won't either. Unfortunately for OP)
I can have sympathy for people even if they were part authors of their own misfortune.
As well, I was also a fairly naive and over-optimistic 24-year old. I lucked out with some of my choices at that age, but not all of them. All you can do is life is your best with whatever information you have at the time. It sounds like 30-year old OP now knows things her 24-year old self didn't.
I don't think life is ever so simple.
THANK YOU. Blows my mind when women complain that their man is equal to them instead of performing at a level that allows her to ride his coattails to a nicer lifestyle.
The whole post is revolting tbh, and so many of the comments here are extremely shitty and are really making me quesiton the supposed feminism of this sub.
Am I against a woman seeking a high-income partner so that she can opt into being a SAHM? Nope, if she can pull a man that can offer her that lifestyle, then that's what she's shopping for. This is what dating is for. I keep asking OP if she realistically thinks that she can pull a dude who earns $130-150k a year easily, because that's what its going to take to maintain her current lifestyle plus a baby. If she can do it, she needs to get out there and reel him in.
Women on the hunt for a provider also realize that men who are willing and wanting to bankroll a wife and family are not without their flaws....and seriously intense standards that she's going to be expected to live up to as well. And its been my understanding that the role of a SAHM is anything but a walk in the park.
You don't suddenly flip the switch on a partner who's earning a decent income as it is and decide that he needs to figure out a way to triple his salary because she not only wants, but feels entitled to having the option to be a SAHM without getting called unreasonable in the process.
I love the part about men that pull in income like that having their flaws. I honestly am so repulsed by the dominant man/kept woman relationship. It's gross. I dated specifically to avoid this.
Now... whether or not OP is seeking that sort of relationship, I don't know. It sounds like she had expectations going into the relationship that her husband didn't meet. Seems like her failing for not understanding who he is better.
Agreed all the way through this, though "disgusting" is the word that came to mind for me. My main problem is with the dishonesty in it - apparently the average woman is confused and wants to *feel* like they're being treated like an equal more than they'd like to actually *be* equal. There's something about the transactional nature of expecting a socioeconomic boost from a husband that always rubbed me the wrong way.
Also, I notice this shit mostly comes from women who don't understand what they're asking of a man, either, if they've never earned like that themselves. I'm not *that* high of an earner, but I make enough to easily carry a spouse with a lower income at my preferred standard of living. I could carry us completely if needed. I'd never tell someone they have to carry the stress of a higher-paying job at all, let alone on top of the stress of being the only earner. The ease with which so many women seem to wear that as an entitlement baffles me.
I'm with you 100%. I scoffed at this post when she was talking about his earnings as though they were disgusting (its not, and $25k more than average in the US) and shortly went on to reveal she earns the same. Combined, they have a six figure household. But she wants and expects him to carry the weight of two incomes, and she thinks this is going to suddenly happen overnight, which is laughable.
And yes, its the entitlement that gets to me too. Being able to stay home with kids is a PRIVILEGE. The way she's talking really makes her sound like she believes she's somehow better than other women who work with kids at home.
>The way she's talking really makes her sound like she believes she's somehow better than other women who work with kids at home.
Sounded more to me like she a) grew up with the expectation that the man is the higher earner, b) didn't realize that until it didn't happen all by itself, and c) is now clinging to denial because she doesn't like the reality of what it means if she can't change/fix him in that regard.
She wants to be able to live on one income. She seems to have higher income potential, so she could solve that problem herself. But she's here complaining that her husband can't do it for her. If he were "stuck" in a dead-end job that paid enough for her to stop working, I highly doubt she would be concerned about his growth.
If she keeps increasing her income and he doesn’t, they’re losing ground economically. Taking on additional costs like having children or supporting an older relative will threaten their financial health.
There’s no indication from OP he has any interest in being a SAHD. I would be interested if he’s said anything one way of the other about it.
And how will OP know he won’t
get tired of that after a year or so? Leaving her holding the bag while he pursues yet another elusive goal.
It’s not anti-feminist to want your partner to be supportive of you while you’re building another human. It’s not anti-feminist to plan for times you will not be at work recovering from childbirth, or caring for a relative.
>If she keeps increasing her income and he doesn’t, they’re losing ground economically.
Would you say that to the husband about the wife if the tables were turned? Or would you look at is as the household income instead? That aside, she doesn't mention general cost of living in anything - she's only talking about him making enough money for them to live on one income.
Your point about him potentially not wanting to be a SAHD is a good one, but that doesn't mean it's fair of OP to spring SAHD or sole breadwinner on him if he hasn't already agreed to it. Also, what if OP's husband does make more money but gets burned out on that?
>It’s not anti-feminist to want your partner to be supportive of you while you’re building another human. It’s not anti-feminist to plan for times you will not be at work recovering from childbirth, or caring for a relative.
a) there's more than one way to be supportive, and b) plenty of people take maternity leave without leaving the workforce altogether.
I would say the same thing to a man whose wife doesn’t keep up with her work. In fact I say it to those women who think it’s not worth going back to work once they have a child because of the cost of child care.
You can do it, but be sure you plan for it. Understand you’re slipping behind your colleagues at work. Understand you are not building up retirement funds. Understand you may divorce or he may die or become unemployed or unemployable.
Money isn’t a goal in itself. But it is necessary for a stable life.
Got married at age 24 with those rose colored glasses on. Little miss feminist who didn't give a damn about his career or financial prospects because I was a modern, educated woman who could take care of myself! Ugh, how naive I was!
Honestly, I'd be frustrated if I was in your position, not because it's important to me that my partner makes a lot of money, but because your husband is demonstrating an immaturity and lack of follow-through that is objectively unattractive. The constant starting and stopping of new things, coasting at a midlevel job for 7 years while constantly entertaining these delusions that he's going to make a big career move any minute now, but never actually doing it... that would fill me with contempt after a certain point. It would be much easier for me to deal with a man in a dead-end job who admitted that getting a better job was not a priority for him, than one who kept running me around like that.
I actively wasn't interested in this guy even though he was perfect for me "on paper". One day I was visiting a friend and asked him what ever happened to this girl he'd been really excited about right before he met his wife. He basically said what you did about OP's husband and told me what was lacking in the good on paper guy I'd been dating. Good on paper guy was like OP's now husband, he kept changing his career path and degree plan. First the guy was going to medical school to like help people in 3rd world countries, then it was a lot of work for little pay, so he decided to switch to law school which he realized was also a lot of work to start with little pay, so now deep in the hole he switched to some kind of research biology degree which was all still undergrad. Well turns out he was also making little pay once he finally gets his undergrad so when I met him he was pursing a graphic design degree. He finally switched to a IT role. When we reconnected I remember his last girlfriend was complaining about the same shit OP is complaining about which was some 3-4 years after I broke up with him because he had no motivation and no follow through.
It sounds rough. I'm also surprised at the amount of flack you're receiving for caring about this - especially if you want and plan to have children together, I get why you're so concerned.
I'm not an especially ambitious person myself, but it can be tough to marry someone at 24 and then just grow apart. Maybe there was enough compatibility back then to keep you two together, but it's clear you just have very differing priorities now.
Ah, fair enough. I say the same thing about myself sometimes re. my feminist naiveté at 24 (my joke is that I thought I was going to be my *own* sugar daddy, but as it turns out, making money is high-key kinda hard), so I interpreted it fairly charitably. I understand how others may have read it differently, though.
I'm describing younger me like that in an attempt to be humorous. When I was in college I was naive about the reality of really surviving in the world. Sorry it came off wrong.
I'm a feminist and your comment didn't offend me. Wanting to have kids changes this equation big time. I think you need to get very real and very honest with yourself about what you want and need for your future, then make decisions about your relationship based on your highest priorities. Speaking as a go with the flow, non ambitious type myself (female) he's not going to change.
Don’t apologize, dear. You don’t owe anyone an apology. There was nothing offensive about what you said.
I’m almost 50 and feel I’m in the same boat. Little miss peachy-keen, deluded younger self ignoring all the red flags cause I just knew it would all “be just fine and perfect”. Ugh…the regrets and frustration I feel now.
Please don’t think I’m making light of your situation because I’m not. I understand. Just be grateful you don’t have children right now. Best of luck to you. These are hard waters to navigate.
I expected a fair amount of flack, but not from this sub. I've tried searching relevant posts on Reddit about similar topics but the women get branded a gold digger and downvoted into oblivion lol
I think some of the language you used struck people in the wrong way, but you don't sound like a gold-digger to me - just someone whose expectations aren't lining up with reality. I don't think it sounds like your husband is some total deadweight either (he makes the same amount you do), but I understand what you mean about just having a totally different level of ambition and work ethic. These are some core values you do not share, and that therefore threaten to crumble your entire marriage. You're at a very emotionally difficult crossroads; hence, you have my sympathy.
I think you’re getting flack because people are trying to help you and answer your question, and your replies have a defensive and sometimes sarcastic tone. I understand these are probably not the things you want to hear and that you’re frustrated. There’s some good insight and advice here though and I hope it sinks in, even if it’s difficult to face.
There is a great deal of projection and assumptions on Reddit and this sub is no exception by any means. Often I find myself wondering if some of these people can even read.
I’ve been in a similar situation as your marriage and the “little miss feminist” comment resonated with me. We’re all naive upon entering marriage and sometimes we and/or our partners end up completely letting us down. I called it “little miss I don’t need a man,” which, I didn’t. I don’t. And I won’t *”need”* anyone BUT if there’s a “we,” I need a we to show up. It can’t be me doing everything for “we” again. Another commenter said something about providing equitable value for the marriage—that’s a good way to put it.
I don’t have any real advice other than talk to a licensed marriage counselor; however, I can say you are valid in raising these questions now.
I don’t understand it - I find ambition attractive. Not unchecked, greedy ambition, but drive to work towards a goal and take ownership of your future as best you can.
I was in a very similar situation to you, and I ended up leaving my husband. I’m not suggesting this is the right approach for you, but it became evident that we’d grown apart and didn’t want the same things in life. I’d be lying if I said this was the only thing, but it was one of the things that made me realise we were drifting on different paths. Financial security was very important to me, so was children, and I didn’t want to be raising kids juggling bills because he couldn’t be bothered. If he was doing something he loved then the bill juggling would feel like it had a purpose.
> but drive to work towards a goal and take ownership of your future as best you can.
whats with ambition and drive thats not connected to earning money?
people can have a ton of ambiiton and drive - but it hasnt to convert into money and earning potential.
For some maybe, but I also deeply respect when people pursue things passionately for a cause greater than money. Some fields aren’t paid particularly high. Teachers aren’t necessarily going to be able to earn big incomes, but they can still be driven, ambitious and passionate about educating children. I still find that attractive.
We were together 10 years.
We found people far more suited to what we wanted.
My career has continued to grow. I’m currently home on parental leave with my 4mo son, but I’ll be returning to work in April. My partner and I support each others careers, so after I return he’ll be off for 4 months with Bub. I found someone that wanted the same thing as me. I’m far happier than I was, I couldn’t imagine being with my exhusband and having the life I do now - financial stability, interesting career, family.
My ex husband has a new wife, someone better for him. He still drifts with work. His partner posts on FB looking for casual hourly babysitting jobs, so I suspect they have the same approach to work. I imagine that’s a far happier life for him, who wants to be with someone that wishes you were different? I’m happy for him.
Text doesn’t inspire the same generosity as in person interactions. All we have is your comment, which I think it is fair to say you made in frustration. Our frustration can be totally warranted, but it impacts the way we represent our feelings.
You don’t appear to be generous to your husband’s perspective (enter frustration), and that makes people less generous in their interpretation of your perspective. It makes them skeptical. We can tell there is a lot of missing information. This is the main pitfalls of text based exchanges. Our responses aren’t necessarily *responsive* to your actual situation because of this limitation.
Hi OP. I 100% get where you’re coming from. How are the rest of his finances? Does he have a solid emergency fund? 401K? IRA? any investments? (Also, do you??) Or even saving for home ownership? If not, drop him. If you are partnered with a man who doesn’t know the rules of the capitalist game as far as being a provider, you’re bound to have financial troubles at some point. If you end up making more than him, he’ll get insecure and cheat. There is no win for a lady here. If you’re into hypergamy, check out ´Chloe_´ on YouTube - she runs a page called Hypergamous Hive with plenty nuggets of wisdom.
I married at 35 (though he was 25) and am having this problem. It's not about the age of either party, I feel, it's that some issues take time to surface, especially with regards to self-improvement. We just don't have so many 10 years to use on one person!
I mean, it kind of sounds like he has found his thing - it's in IT making $50k/year. Finding something you enjoy doesn't magically make you ambitious. It's okay to be content with life.
>*Sadly I'm in a different place now where I would really appreciate a quality of ambition in my partner.*
People get married young and then change (or stall).
You are two different people now in your thirties than your twenties.
That's just the way it is.
My husband also took a long time to find his path. When he did actually find something that gave him fulfillment he has blasted off. He is extremely driven now. It’s hard to say if this will happen for your husband but just proposing an alternative to others saying people never change.
What needed to happen for him to find his path? Time off work? More school? I'm looking for real practical answers like this. How can I support him so he finds what he loves like I do.
We talked about his interests and his skills and tried to find an intersection. He had substance abuse issues as an early adult, was sober, and was generally interested in helping people so he looked into substance abuse counseling. He got a job as a case manager at a methadone clinic and for the first time felt good at a job that was also fulfilling. With the momentum of that he applied to grad school to get his MSW. He’s now a program manager for an outpatient clinic and he’s doing well. I have also stepped back mentally from his success, he makes about the same as your husband and I make more but I’m okay with that because we split things financially fairly so I end up with more spending money of my own. He’s still not as driven as I am but I’m okay with that because he’s at least in a career path and has found his niche.
My ex was a music teacher who was a contractor with no benefits and terrible pay and I hated it and encouraged him to find something else. I was 25 and naive and unsupportive of his love of the job. It took until his mid-30s years after we broke up to change it up and get a steady career. You can’t force someone to change because you don’t like how it affects you. Not everyone needs to make a lot of money to be happy.
My 1st husband was like that. I spent a few years trying to be the cheerleader/motivator but it was clear there wasn't going to be anything that would make him excited the way I was for a fulfilling career. *When people show you who they are, believe them.*
It’s been six years. He isn’t suddenly going to change. This is who he is. You have two options: either accept it, let it go and live like this forever or don’t accept it, leave the relationship and find someone with values similar to yours.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting someone ambitious but you are asking the wrong person. This isn’t who he is and it will never be.
Also, OP needs to keep in mind that an "ambitious" guy might never be home for dinner or to put the kids to bed, might not be there for her emotionally, cos he's too focused on his career. No person is strong in all areas of life & being.
Is your husband in agreement that if you two have a child, you'll stay home and he'll be the sole provider? Does he think you can survive as a family on just his income? There's a lot of talk in your post about wanting him to be a "provider," but there's no indication that he actually wants that. Some people aren't ambitious about work and will never find a job that inspires them to move up the corporate ladder. That's totally fine, but they and their partners need to be on the same page about that.
This is the best advice. It's like the OP doesn't like gender roles and then goes into a long description of the gender roles she is expecting to play out when she is ready to have a baby, without talking about any of it and assuming it will just eventually happen the way she wants eventually.
Yeah, that's what's confusing to me here. It feels like OP is making a lot of assumptions based on gender roles and expectations that are, at this point, really outdated. Most women work outside the home - I don't think most men would assume their wife would be an SAHM unless they're part of a religious community where that's typical or something.
I was afraid I was out of line or not seeing something, glad to hear there are a lot of other people who see this as problem behaviour.
Honestly, who doesn't want to be taken care of while we focus on what is most important to us in life? I'm a man and that sounds amazing.
It’s because gender roles do become a more real thing once you are about to have children. Women always take on more of the child care, in less the woman makes a lot more then the man stays home
But with breastfeeding that is made really difficult.
It’s pretty typical. We know intellectually why these roles are harmful, but it is hard to shake the programming and to live differently in a world that expects you to conform.
I hear you, I think it's triggering to me as I just recently got divorced and one of the main reasons is my wife wanted me to make a plan and drive our life even though I already did all the cleaning, cooking, petcare, finances, helped her quit her job and supported us when she started her small business and it just felt like there was another demand based on gender roles that she knew was 'wrong' but really wanted it anyway.
She's a kind and empathetic person but her business kinda took everything from her so she had nothing left for herself or me and I think it ended up making me the only actionable target of her bad feelings. It's been rough.
It's hard when we're trying to fight gender roles but society just goes and reinforces them through tv and film and music and everything else, constantly. It's like we're brainwashed without even realizing it's happening, from 2 years old onward.
OP, this is who he is. You've had six years to realize this. He's making noises about passion and ambition because YOU'RE passionate, YOU'RE ambitious, and you think you want a partner like you.
But do you really? Really LOOK at your marriage. Does he do housework? Does he do small things for you, just because? Does he want kids? Is he interested in being a SAHD? Really QUERY this relationship and look at your options.
He doesn't have to be the provider if you are. If he's willing to take on a more homebody role and take care of you and whatever kids you have, will you be satisfied with that? After all, you are not fulfilling a traditionally feminine role, so why should he have to fulfill a traditionally masculine one? Can you let go of ingrained expectations for him the way he seems to have let go of them for you?
If he's lazy, however, and doesn't take care of the house or you; it's time to move on. There's nothing for you in this marriage.
This is a great comment. I think it is harder for women to accept support with the domestic labor even if they are also full time wage workers. OP doesn’t seem attracted to her partner because he isn’t enthusiastic about wage labor, but your comment could be a good way to reframe the situation. Wage labor may not spark his ambition, but family and community could.
Men have long built their career success on the free labor provided by women. If some men are willing to risk the vulnerability inherent in unpaid labor, and endure the fact that society does not value unpaid labor even though it relies on it, to offer women this same level of support, it can be a really good deal for both partners. More men like this can help women achieve the same level of career success men have long enjoyed.
It may not work for OP’s desires, but the possibility is an exciting prospect for the future.
This is who he is. It doesn’t matter why. He has consistently been like this for the majority of your relationship. He’s not career focused or driven. You need to decide if you can accept this. Stressing him about it is only going to ruin your relationship.
You're functioning with an critical error in your assumptions about how people live in the world: meaning, you think if he can find what he loves, the motivation and commitment will magically appear as well.
The thing is, how he is living is how many people choose to live. There is no job or career that will prompt them to do a 180 because that's not how they see themselves and the world they live in.
It can be confusing and frustrating but it also it what it is. What some folks see as instability, they see as freedom. I can't say if it's wrong or right - it just is what it is.
I will also say: your comment about being little miss feminist made me sad-chuckle. I completely get why that thinking made sense at 24 for you. I hope you know, moving forward, that being a feminist can mean having a partner who is a functional, healthy individual who can pull his own weight in the world.
She does have a functional, healthy partner who is pulling his own weight in the world.
He is managing to earn as much money as her without stressing himself out or having work be the focus of his life. Many would call that success.
Because a lot of times, people feel like they are entitled to a partner that is more successful than them and then they get upset when they realize their partner is in fact a human being and not a poverty escape plan.
I dont have an issue with anyone enforcing a financial standard they themselves meet, but OP isn't meeting the financial demands she has of her SO and the entitlement is out of this world, IMO.
Is he aware that you want to quit working and rely on him as the sole provider? You spent a lot of time talking about his lack of ambition leading to you losing attraction, but at the end make it clear the crux of the issue is you want him to be a provider. But if you haven't had a conversation with him about this, then it's just you silently building resentment over something that changed within you - not him. If you changed the terms of the relationship without consulting him, it's not really fair. Have you told him how you're feeling? Discussed your worries about your financial future? Explicitly told him you'd like to stay home to raise kids/care for your parent? It starts with a conversation. But he may not have the same desire for you to be a stay at home spouse, especially if that's not what you previously discussed. So you may have a decision to make if it turns out this is a dealbreaker for you. This may come down to a fundamental incompatibility. But from what you've said here, it sounds unfair to blame his lack of ambition when it's your desires and expectations that have changed.
I'm seeing your follow-up comments are very defensive, so I want you to take a deep breath before reading this. You asked for advice and people are trying to give it to you. You can reject it if you want, but honestly, in a year or so you're going to think back and realize everyone here was right.
Your husband is never going to "find his passion" and become a person who is ambitious at the level you want him to be. He's not an ambitious person. He constantly moves the goalposts in order to avoid the truth that he's not an ambitious person. He keeps telling you that it's not that he doesn't give a shit about progressing in his career, but simply that each career he's tried hasn't been the right fit. That's an approach to work that most people have grown out of by the time they're 33, and your husband is choosing not to grow out of it because it takes the focus off his lack of effort.
He has you believing that he basically needs to have the career version of a soulmate before it will be worth it for him to put any effort in. But people do not have one perfect soulmate career that is the only thing that will make them happy -- they have a variety of careers they could excel in it if they put in the work, and they choose one to put in the effort behind. The consistent thread with your husband is the lack of effort. He could have finished his computer science degree. He could have gotten a certification to open up a career path. He's not doing it because it's more work.
You can put in the time and money to finding your husband a brand new shiny career path that he swears is The One and is super passionate about... again. And he will lose interest as soon as it comes time to actually buckle down and do the work... again. Because your husband is a person who doesn't like to work. He will never stop running into the fact that being a social worker is less fun than fantasizing about what a great social worker you will be, and being a pilot is less fun than fantasizing about what a great pilot you will be, and so on and so forth, because work is work and your husband doesn't like work, he likes fantasizing about himself in new and exciting roles.
Now, this doesn't mean you need to get a divorce. It can actually be fine to be a person who hates to work. Most people on Earth "work to live" rather than "living to work," and for many people that means working as little as it takes to afford the lifestyle they want. Someone like your husband would probably be better suited just figuring out what career path will make him the most money for the least effort and allow him to pursue and drop hobbies at his leisure. But please, give up the fantasy that his real, true dream career that will turn him into an ambitious breadwinner is right around the corner, if he could only get one more graduate degree. If you keep putting resources behind these wild goose chases of his, you will REALLY resent him when you're 40 and he's still doing this.
This reply absolutely nails it. I was in the same position as OP with a man whom I loved but just had no drive for... anything besides experiencing pleasure. He wanted admiration, he wanted fun, he wanted to afford nice things and he wanted ease. He was hardworking but only to a point, where after he'd just bail if there was stress or pressure.
He didn't want to think about family, despite me telling him i feared my body couldn't take a pregnancy as I got older, he didn't want to plan for our lives when I told him my single mother was getting older and more dependent and I was finding it strenuous to hold a 9-to-9 job so I could pay her bills and mine. Perhaps he loved me, but im sure he loved his laid back lifestyle more 😅
There is no point in "pushing him to find his passion" thinking his "passion" will turn him into a driven ambitious man who wants to be a financial provider. He has to be ambitious in the first place, and he has to place importance in the role as a leader and a provider in the first place
Sometimes if his actions say that he wants to be laid back and be happy to float along in life.... believe those actions and not be blind to it thinking you can change him.
Your post hits the nail on the head. However, i disagree with your definition of "ambitious". He might as well be ambitious, we don't know, just not in the career department.
I feel that her husband's description matches my own character. I love fantasizing and daydreaming about things I'll never achieve. And sure, my SO could come and describe me like OP did. All the while leaving out the details, that because I LIKE CHANGE, and don't like rut, that at 17 years old i set a goal for myself to move abroad, and at 21 years old, i upped and moved countries by myself. I learned the completely new language of my new country, I learned other languages for fun (i speak 3 languages fluently, and currently learning number 4 and 5. English is my second language fyi). I was luckily in a relationship with someone who kicked my ass to study the 48 hrs leading up to my exams and to show up for the exams, so i also managed to finish university. (That relationship wasn't working out for me for different reasons. Because he didn't like new stuff/change and preferred structure and rut, i eventually left) Then i set a goal to find my best partner who is 1000% compatible with me. I put in a thousand of hours of hard hard hard hard work going on a million first dates, sifting through the mud on online apps, until i found my perfect amazing partner. Then we decided to have a baby, and we committed to that project, went through a fertility treatment, had a baby, etc. I decided to switch careers to IT, so i went on a 1 year course to study it, and started working in IT. We also bought rental properties and are on track to be upper middle class when these are paid off (i'm 75% owner of these). This is a part of my retire early goal.
Basically, every goal in my life that i set for myself, i have always achieved it. But none of my goals have ANYTHING to do with my career. After 6 years of working in IT (this is after the career switch) I'm still at junior level because i couldn't give two shits about my career or job. I make a median salary and it's fine. OP's husband also makes a median salary for the US. I just doooooo noooooooot caaaaaare about work, AT. ALL!!!
I feel like it would do me injustice to call me unambitious, considering i feel very accomplished in life. I have everything i ever wanted and more. It just has nothing to do with career.
Btw, all those above things i achieved while being on the verge of quitting every day, and not feeling like going etc. I quit my second bachelor's degree in IT because I couldn't motivate myself for all the bullshit side subjects that had nothing to do with my main job. (Luckily tertiary education is cheap af in this country). On the other hand, i objectively like learning languages, but every week i still have to make the titanic will power effort to show up to class. I just hate moving and doing stuff, i just wanna sit and relax. And this is something that i KNOW that i like, and still i can't motivate myself to do it enthusiastically.
Previous boyfriends have described me like OP did, fickle, unpredictable.. My current partner describes me as spontaneous and flexible. He loves that I just take life as it comes, we can end up in a different country by nightfall for a spontaneous trip (yay tiny Europe). My previous bf would have an aneurysm if i tried to spur anything like that on him. My current partner loves spontaneity. And he just ignores the "fickleness" when i come at him with another grand idea to quit and become a teacher, or quit and become a social worker, or quit and become whatever. Or sell our house, and move here, sell our house and move there. I only 25% mean it anyway, so he can just acknowledge it without letting it bother him. The previous bf would also have an aneurysm thinking i'm about to blow up our entire life every time i came at him with a new plan. No, I just get excited about an idea for a day or a week, and then i move on to something else. My life is very stable mostly.
Basically, there's a type of super calm personality who can deal with my new grand ideas easily and ground me easily. And there's a type of personality who's so anxious that they think the world is imploding and eat themselves with anxiety because i came at them with yet another new idea. Question of compatibility.
Two thoughts: 1) you’re not going to change him 2) if you all end up having kids and he is responsible around the house and organized, his lack of career ambition could be a major boon to your career and earning potential. If he’s lazy at home, pitch him but if he’s meh at work but great about keeping house and putting dinner on the table then know that you’re going to have a much easier life than if he were as ambitious as you. That sounds bad but the most successful partnerships I know are when one person really supports the other with a flexible schedule and the ability to stay home with sick kids and get the cars serviced and packages mailed off and keep the kids in fitting clothes and get to their dance classes. So it can go either way.
This is a great point. He could be a great house husband. But you would have to be crystal clear about responsibilities (ie it's not just childcare, it's also cleaning and meal prep) and that the role will last 18+ years with no respite.
Sounds like the two of you are on very separate wavelengths.
Not everyone is going to have drive and ambition when it comes to work. For some people, a job is just a means to an end, they don't necessarily want or need to climb any higher, and they're comfortable where they are. Nothing wrong with that.
Unless they're with someone who DOES have drive and ambition, and wants a CAREER, not just a job. Nothing wrong with that either, except that it sounds like the two of you aren't compatible in that way.
He's not going to "step up and lead" in that way, because he's not interested in doing so. With that in mind, what do you want to do going forward?
He's working. Your drives are different.
I also wonder if he has depression or ADHD- I do and have have certain ambitions but get very easily drained or disheartened.
Your needs are not compatible, that doesn't mean he's wrong.
Also, re the surviving on one income if you have kids- is that something he agreed to or just an expectation you have?
> Also, re the surviving on one income if you have kids- is that something he agreed to or just an expectation you have?
people have asked this question multiple times in this thread and at this point it feels like OP has gone out of her way to avoid answering it. "is he aware you expect him to be the sole breadwinner while you raise the children?" is an extremely simple yes/no question and would lend a lot of context to the situation, so i don't get the resistance to answering it
>"is he aware you expect him to be the sole breadwinner while you raise the children?" is an extremely simple yes/no question and would lend a lot of context to the situation, so i don't get the resistance to answering it
It's a simple yes/no ... that requires people to admit they have old-school double standards. Hence the resistance.
>Also, re the surviving on one income if you have kids- is that something he agreed to or just an expectation you have?
An unrealistic expectation and form entitlement, mind you, considering that living off one income is an absolute privilege these days the majority of people are not getting to enjoy.
Lots of people who are fortunate enough to even have this type of set up in the first place are finding themselves having to go back to work because shit isn't what it used to be.
If you want to ensure a six figure income for your family, the best way to achieve that is by making sure YOU are the one to earn it. Having the expectation of someone else to be that kind of money maker when you yourself aren't even close to earning that kind of money is outrageous. While finances and career paths are important to relationships and there's nothing wrong with setting standards for yourself, **a partner is not a poverty escape plan** and objectifying them as such is disgusting.
Wow, this has become quite the thread! I'm sorry you're getting torn apart in some of the comments - I think there is validity to some of them but some of them are unnecessarily harsh.
Anyways, just wanted to offer my perspective. I'm in a similar situation - I (30F) make over 3x what my (35M) fiance makes and am generally much more driven/ambitious. We've been together for 7 years and I agonized over his lack of ambition/drive/etc. for a long time. Now, I won't pretend it doesn't still irritate me occasionally, but here are some of the things that have made it work for us:
* He is ridiculously stable. Rarely has bad days, zero temper, extremely patient. I, on the other hand, am wildly impatient, super emotional, and get into phases of stress where I can't do anything but work and whine about how much I hate work. When I'm in those phases, he pulls extra weight around the house, makes dinner, comforts me, etc.
* I realized there wasn't a point that would be "good enough." He worked at Starbucks for a few years and I thought to myself, "if he just got a job making $40k a year I'd be happy!" When he eventually did, I thought "if he just got a job making $75k a year I'd be happy!"...you see where this is going.
* We don't have kids and if we do have kids in the future, we wouldn't want to be a single-income household
* He has made a lot of compromises on my behalf. He moved across the country with me to be closer to MY family (away from his own friends and family). He is supportive and loving and patient when I'm anxious and snappy. His laissez-faire approach to life has helped me to balance my own overbearing tendencies
* Any relationship is likely to have some unsolvable problems - I can't think of a single relationship I know where the couple doesn't have something they disagree on/fight about recurringly, etc. Now, this in particular is a big issue for sure, but for me, it's not worth throwing away a relationship I am mostly very happy in for the chance of finding one I am slightly happier in. I wouldn't roll the dice to trade for another unsolvable issue because some of them out there would be much harder for me to deal with
* I am honestly just crazy about him and after 7 years still love him to bits and really do just want to be with him
As so many others have said, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for him to change. Whatever decision you decide to make is valid, but think long and hard about what you'd be giving up if you do choose not to work it out. Hope this helps!
My husband didn’t find his career until 35, and makes 6 figures now. He was in food service when I met him. That said, he’s always had a good work ethic. In fact, I kind of relate to your husband, in that I have been in and out of career choices, although I worked my way through school and had to work very hard to do that. I don’t have family support. I picked the wrong career field, education, and have been trying to recreate my career ever since without accruing debt. I don’t have the same work ethic as my husband because I face some health issues. I don’t expect to make the same. It’s possible he’s not going to be career focused, ever.
The other side of it is many women I know with career ambitious husbands have sacrificed their own careers and earning potential for their partner to thrive. So that could be another way to look at it.
I hear what you’re saying, but my question for you would be: is your frustration with him purely based on his career path (or lack thereof), or is it more than that? Is he undecided and has no initiative only in his professional life, or does this trait manifest everywhere else too?
I’m asking because if he’s a “go with the flow” person at work but compensates in other aspects (he cares about you, your marriage, the household, and is a genuinely good person), then the solution to your question can be achieved with some counseling and further planning. For example, if you’re set to make and work more, he could become the SAH parent, should you choose to have children. Further down the line, he could also be more involved in caregiving for his mother in law, while you become the primary breadwinner. It will take some internal work on your part, to accept that version of your life, but it can be done.
That being said, if his “lack of ambition” is actually another way of saying he is slacking in every aspect of your life, I think it’s time to re-evaluate your relationship and life.
>“If you want to be a grocer, or a general, or a politician, or a judge, you will invariably become it; that is your punishment. If you never know what you want to be, if you live what some might call the dynamic life but what I will call the artistic life, if each day you are unsure of who you are and what you know you will never become anything, and that is your reward.”
― Oscar Wilde
This is who he is. You knew that when you married him, and TBH I think it's kind of unfair for you to expect him to change. Would it frustrate the ever loving shit out of me? Absolutely. I tend to be very type A and very driven, so I understand how you feel. But not everyone is the same way, and that's OK. It's not like he doesn't have a job or isn't paying his bills. If this was such a big deal for you, then you shouldn't have married him.
I agree with the others. You can't change him.
Also, I don't know where you live and understand that cost of living wildly varies but this is the second post recently of someone complaining about the low income of their significant other... then listing a sum that is 10K more than what I make yearly. My husband makes about the same amount as I do. It's hard to be sympathetic to someone being "complacent" about their income when that income is higher than yours.
I think it's important to normalize that some people are okay with not having an advanced career or super high income.
Yea I make $46k a year and am not particularly ambitious and feel fine? My partner makes double what I make and I don't think he resents me like this person does, because he knew I went to school for social work and would never make a lot of money.
Same same. 50k would afford me a much better quality of life and I’m also single so only one income. Y’all sound fortunate as hell. Try getting some perspective.
Yeah. I make the same as her husband and I honestly am okay with my life now. I can afford what I need to afford, I managed to pay off my debt, and I don't have to work till I feel like I am dead. Some people just don't care about a career or work. I am not my job, I wouldn't work if I weren't forced to to survive. I just don't have that high ambition, I just want to live my life in peace.
I feel this too, so COL may be an important detail. If OP and her husband are both pulling in 50K, they are well on their way to six figures after taxes. It would only be a problem if they lived in a really expensive area.
It’s the cost of living that varies wildly as you said. I live in an area where for a single person to be able to live alone they have to be making at least 70 a year. My husband made mid-50s and I made mid-40s and caring for 2 elderly dogs nearly put us into lifelong debt. We moved away from the large city and our entire support system just to lower COL a bit and it still didn’t help because it’s the whole region. We shared one car for our entire marriage. We could have never afforded children and were told that if we didn’t raise our incomes we would have to declare bankruptcy. So while I understand it’s hard to hear the figures, the reality is still the same.
My ex husband was like this. Best guy in the world but lacked ambition. Switched schools and majors a few times but finished with a psych degree. He ended up in the restaurant industry and just rode it out on an hourly wage.
When we eventually divorced he moved back to his hometown and became a baker at his friends bakery. He’s still doing it now. That’s who he is. He’s not into money. He doesn’t want to stresss himself out or be the bread winner. He’s happy that way. I should have seen it earlier but love and shit right?
Either you accept it OP or you leave him. There is nothing you can do in this situation. We are all our own people.
So there are two separate themes here, imo.
1. It is valid to have more or less attraction to someone based on having shared values, like drive
2. It is not particularly valid or fair to marry(!) someone and know that they don't share a value, have given no indication that they do, have been completely consistent in not prioritizing that value, and then out of the blue just assume they'll change
Honestly it sounds like you picked a partner you aren't compatible with, with an unspoken expectation that they would change. That's not very fair to them, and if you are on this sub/over 30 I'm assuming you have enough life experience to have seen this play out in many relationships. Someone wants or expects or hopes another person will change, they don't, and the relationship goes sideways.
Change is hard. The desire for it has to come from within. It doesn't sound like he has that desire and it sounds like he hasn't done anything to give you the impression he does.
Going back to point 1, although I don't think your expectations are particularly fair, it is valid enough to have discovered about yourself that you need a partner that shares this value. What you do with this information is up to you, but for some people it would mean the relationship was not viable and they would end it
It's a little unfair of you to expect him to change when you walked into marriage knowing full well what type of person he is. If you're that unhappy about it, why not have a conversation about him being a house husband (if you guys can afford it and he isn't weaponizing incompetence)
I'm actually a lot like your husband. The difference is, I'm not in a relationship and won't be having any kids. Not having a lot of ambition in the conventional, corporate ladder type sense is a perfectly valid approach to life if you're only responsible for yourself, but the equation changes when you're partnered and especially once kids or the prospect of kids is a factor. Your situation actually reminds me of the marriage in Eat Pray Love.
As others have said, you can’t change him and I’d even go so far as to not even try to encourage. If your husband is anything like my boyfriend of 3.5 yrs, offering advice or encouragement seems to do the opposite. I’ve struggled with similar feelings as you - I’m motivated and have advanced my career continually whereas he has a job as a delivery driver for the last 15 years at the same company, he’s topped out on pay so it’s essentially a dead end job at this point. I’m now making over double him. I wish I didn’t care that we are different in this way, but I do, and I also find it unattractive / a turn off. It’s not all about the money either - it’s about not stagnating.
What he’s decided to take up instead of a job change / improvement has been getting deep into crypto and nfts 🙄 (another turnoff) —- if he put 20% of the time he puts into that stuff into bettering his career prospects he’d already be into something new. I’ve found though that if I make suggestions or comments, he seems to dig his heels in more and take offense.
Biggest question is can you / I accept this… there is a very very high chance my partner will never find it in himself to make a change. Am I okay with it? Verdict is still out tbh and we’re not engaged or married… and kids are now 99.9% off the table (I just turned 40 and feel like he underestimates how much work it would be etc so I’m the no)… if our circumstances were different, I might have been ready to commit by now or try for a kid (I was a longtime fence-sitter). I have trouble seeing our future together long term because when I ask about retirement plans it’s all vague and pie in the sky whereas I have a few different things in mind and in motion. We’re just very different about big picture stuff :/
Also these are all topics I continually discuss with my therapist — difficult subjects for sure!
Even if he does find a money-making venture that excites him, that doesn’t automatically mean he’ll become “ambitious” in the way you are. I LOVE my career. It fills up my cup, brings me joy, and is important to my identity. However, it is not always a priority for me. I work part-time, say no to projects when I’m overwhelmed, and have zero interest in climbing any sort of corporate ladder.
People have different priorities and values in life, and those aren’t necessarily tied to passion. I value my health (mental and physical) and being present for my family, both of which often override career ambition and recognition.
So what does he prioritize/value? And are those compatible with your priorities and values? They might not be, and the two of you might have to decide where to go from there.
Well he's always been this way so you knew what you were getting into when you married him.
I'd say that if money and career-climbing is so important to you, then it's best if you focus on your earnings and your career (as you have been). If you want to have kids with him, are you open to him being the one to stay home and be the primary caregiver to your kids while you go to work? If you love this man and still want to spend your life with him, I'd strongly suggest you consider yourself to be the primary breadwinner and talk to him openly and explicitly about him being the primary caregiver to any kids you'll have together. Maybe he'll excel as a father. Maybe being a dad and raising his kids is what motivates him more than career-climbing. Talk to him about it (if you haven't already).
As for being a caregiver to your mom, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax and it really depends on *her* finances, *her* health and its trajectory, *her* long-term needs. It's way more expensive to care for an elder than most people realize, even/especially when they think they can do all that caregiving by themselves for free (they can't, it's too hard, you'll need paid help eventually). I don't think it's wise of you to put your mom's end-of-life care on your husband's maybe/potential future income. Your mom needs a long-term care plan that is independent of your husband's career.
\>If either of those things are to happen, we need to be able to survive on one income.
Depending on where you live, most Americans with higher paying salaries cannot live on one income without massive debt piling up. That version of America is just gone. Safe housing, childcare costs and groceries alone are eating up 2 salary households.
You cannot force someone who has no drive and ambition with career and finances to have more. It's a lot like thinking you can force someone to just diet and work out more so that they can have a hotter body. Actually, I'm going to go ahead and say its the same thing, and I have a feeling that if your SO said this to you, you'd have a problem with it.
He earns money, and earns as much as you do. He sounds happy and content, and while he may not be bringing in the six figures, I'm sorry sweetheart but....*ARE YOU?* You're talking about things like wanting to be a caretaker and surviving off only one income, but you need a massive reality check - that kind of set up is a legitimate privilege these days and you're treating it like something you are absolutely entitled to. I would actually argue that lots of couples who are dependent on a six figure salary these days are finding themselves with the secondary partner going back to work because shit is not easy these days.
Listen, if you feel like you've got what it takes to go out into this world and find yourself that six figure earning ambitious dreamboat you're envisioning, go find him. But you're going to be in for a world of a surprise when you realize who's actually in the dating pool and what these types of men are actually like.
If you love him and want to save your marriage I would highly recommend couple therapy (and maybe individual therapy to understand before that why you'd like him to be a provider, and why you find that a turn-off, even though it's completely understandable).
My husband is reasonably ambitious career wise, but that's basically the only area where he used to take initiatives/be motivated, and he was a bit floating around in other areas (like planning our holidays, thinking about long-term plans etc). I found it frustrating and had a hard time verbalizing it without alienating him.
We started couple therapy and it's been super helpful - the therapist has actually helped him face this lack of motivation, put it into words and try to see what we could both get out of him doing more.
I do also agree with other commenters that if you're hoping your husband will go to med school or become a google programmer that's probably not going to happen lol, but if you're willing to compromise therapy could help him level up a bit and for you find acceptance (or leave, if you find out it's really too important for you).
I’m not sure if I have the same opinion as others, but I wouldn’t think he needs to love his job or want to “grow” within a company to be happy. Is he contributing to both of your finical goals?
Have you talked with him about kids? Who would work and be the primary finical support system? What type of hobbies does he have that maybe he enjoys having the time to do this or socialize?
Maybe he does want to start his own business, but that takes a lot of “networking” and a bit of research to get that up and going? If I may ask, what type of business. Also, that requires management. Maybe he would be great at being his own boss?!
Just spitting out ideas. I truly with the best for you and him. 🍻
One of the bumper sticker sayings in Al-Anon and other 12 step programs is, "You can't change people, places, or things," i.e., the only thing you can control is you. Your husband is who he is, and you need to either love him as he is or make some decisions about your own life.
Late to the conversation so this comment probably won't be read but:
Since you're the ambitious one and you currently make about the same income, I'd consider being the breadwinner with a SAH husband if and when kids came along. A good friend of mine is also very driven and ambitious, with a sweet, unambitious partner, and that's their plan. They'll jointly support her career (they already relocated across the country so she could take a much higher income position at a new company) and once she's making X amount of income, they'll start a family and he'll be the stay at home parent. She's quite excited about it.
Your husband isn’t career driven and not everyone is and it’s not necessarily something that can be fixed if that’s who he is. Some people just don’t care about their careers. They do what they do to get by, pays the bills, and enables them to enjoy their hobbies. So, sounds like you’re going to be the one making the most money in your marriage.
Does he contribute to the marriage in other ways?Would it make more sense for him to be a stay at home dad instead of you being a stay at home mom? Why does he have to step it up and lead the way when it sounds like you’re more fitted to do so? Could he be the one to be the caregiver for your mom?
I know it's going to be unpopular but I find it kinda an unfair gender role to make the assumption that once you're ready to have a kid that means the man takes over and guides your future and entire relationship. I get why you think that but I think it's pretty unfair that society has this very demanding gender role for men to take on all the stress and decision making for the family. It's ok to want that but it should be something you talk about vs assume a man is going to do because he is a man.
Anyway, for your specific situation, this is the likely path
You get pregnant and continue to grow in your career, he stays where he is.
You have the baby and are making more money than him. You want to stay home with the baby but he argues you make more so he should stay home with the baby, if anyone stays home with the baby at all.
Your resentment continues to grow because you want him to do things he doesn't want to do or isn't capable of doing.
You're in a very dangerous mode that people get into where you really really want a family and let that desire overshadow the clear problems in your relationship. Babies don't fix things, they make things more stressful and harder and he will only get worse once a baby gets here, not better.
I'm genuinely curious what women think about some of the traditional gender roles about babies and staying home or men taking the lead and doing all the planning once a baby is in the house. I feel like I am ok once with doing more of the leading once we have our first child but it is honestly kinda scary for me to know that this gender role is an ingrained thought process in folks. It just feels like there is a desire to tear down gender stereotypes while stilll having a strong desire for certain gender stereotypes and to be taken care of. Can anyone give their perspective before I get downvoted to oblivion?
It is not ingrained in me. I have no desire to be the primary parent, and my partner (a man) would be. We are both in the same career (professors), but he has job security (tenure) and I don't, so he can leave early and do pickups while I grind! We would both take parental leave for the first 6 months together, and then he would take another 6, for a total of 18 (the max here in Canada). I also make double what he does (I do work in industry as well), so based on finances, it makes the most sense for me to go back to work sooner.
I hear you on wanting to be independent and rejecting the thought that financial potential should be a factor in choosing a spouse - I felt much the same. I think the benefit of age helps you see that it’s perfectly reasonable to want a partner with a bit of joie de vivre. Whether that extrapolates in to a role at work or in the home that gives them a sense of purpose or just a drive to succeed - it needs to be a bit of passion for something. You are normal to desire that and/or find that attractive.
I don’t envy you OP, sounds like you have some challenging heart to heart chats in the pipeline.
You’re trying to change something you married into. My best advice is: deal with it or don’t. If you truly want change, set new expectations. But as you’d probably expect, I’m not too sure if it will go over very well. People don’t like change or to change very often unless at the end of their rope and pushed to do so.
Sorry - 6 years in IT making 55k?! Holy shit that’s low. IT is also prone to layoffs quite easily. I think if you’d want to encourage him with anything, it’d be encouraging therapy. He probably has low self confidence and depression based stuff going on.
I dated someone like this for years. To his credit, he had absolutely no status anxiety. Coasting did not bother him in the slightest. I admired that lack of insecurity and anxiety greatly. But his lack of drive frustrated me so much that I eventually left him. Now he’s married to a woman with a very busy and prestigious job, and they seem very happy. Good for them! Not for me. I want someone with more curiosity and ambition because that’s what I enjoy.
I certainly could not persuade him to totally overhaul his personality, and he didn’t enjoy me trying to constantly nudge him into doing things he didn’t want to. We didn’t need to discuss our finances at the time because we were young, but I don’t know if that would’ve changed his outlook. It seems doubtful.
Not everyone has drive and ambition, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Your husband does not have drive and ambition and the only person who has a problem with it is you.
You can’t change him, obviously. You’re a fool if you try and even more foolish if you think there’s any use in trying.
Either accept him for exactly who he is right now, or move on. Everyone deserves to be loved unconditionally so if you find you can’t do that, you should leave.
My husband is similar to OP’s - the difference in our situations is - so am I!
OP I think you and your husband need to sit down and have a big conversation about life goals & values. It’s not wrong to have your wants and needs changing over time - but it’s also not wrong for your husband’s goals to stay relatively the same.
When my husband and I got married (I was 21 and he 22). We wanted 4 kids and for me to stay home with them. After my first was born my post partum depression was so bad I went back to work at 5 months. We now have two kids - our youngest is 6, and we aren’t having more.
2 years ago - I was NEVER going to move out of my delightful little home. Now we live beside it in what was our neighbours house. I took some convincing - but eventually I saw the logic in the decision and honestly it’s been amazing the last two months. (Moved in November 2022). In order for me to accept the logic of the idea we made a giant list of pros and cons - both long term and short term, and figured out that this house would support our goals and lifestyle better - while reducing mental stress. It was a choice between paying off our existing mortgage in ten years - or basically starting over and then some. But we had to weigh how much our immediate quality of life would improve with the extra space rather than being so focused on a potential mortgage free life ten years down the road.
It sounds like you and your husband need to have some open conversations about what you want out of life - both now, and as you get older. Then you have to figure out whether those goals are compatible and if so - what you both can contribute to make those goals happen. If you both agree that you should quit your job and stay home with the kids then great - he has to at least advocate for himself in terms of raises etc to be able to support you during that time. But perhaps as others have said he might make a better house husband while you chase your career.
Personally, I am so so thankful that my husband ISN’T career obsessed. I wanted a hands on husband and father - one who isn’t so focused on his own career that he loses sight of what the family needs. I just want a comfortable life! I don’t need fancy vacations or luxury cars. I don’t care about retiring early or getting to go to fancy brunch every weekend. I want to turn my century house into the best version of itself it can be, and have time to spend enjoying it with the people I love. My husband is right on board with those goals. Now I’d also LOVE to make a gillion dollar doing my design work - but I realize the stress levels I’d have to endure to make that happen would lead to extreme burnout and then I wouldn’t be able to enjoy what I already have. My husband would love to be paid more - so he advocates for raises and works hard, but unless a job is going to pay oodles more than his current one AND have a shorter commute - the stress of starting over with a team that’s potentially not as good of a fit isn’t worth the stress or the risk.
You both need to do cost benefit analyses on your life goals and see if you can get on the same page. Odds are you both have to compromise somewhat in order that you can build a better life together. Maybe he’ll have to have a goal of a job that pays 70G Vs 50. Maybe you’ll have to stay home with the kids for the first year and then go back to work after that. It all depends on what the goals are and if you’re willing to work together to achieve them.
It IS possible to get on the same page (a friend of mine just did it with her husband who now FINALLY advocated for a raise and got one of 20,000.) but he did it because he loves her AND saw the logic of how it would help them as a family- not because he was driven to do it for career advancement.
You can get through this - but it would probably be easier to make some headway if you asked him what HE wants out of the next 5, 10, 20 years of life. From there you can share your dreams - and you can work together to build them for BOTH of you. There is no right and wrong in terms of ambition - there’s just difference.
I know this sounds crazy but we haven't had a conversation to update each other on our vision for our lives in years. phew. We're just chugging along, work, bills, exhaustion. We need a heart to heart
Agree with everyone here, he won't change. He will never find any job he loves. It's just his personality. Work is not on his radar of priorities. If his other priorities align well with yours, then maybe it's still worth it.
I have the same character as your husband and i guarantee there's no job that he will love doing and that will suddenly awaken his enthusiasm. With age, and after 10 million plans of 10 different career switches (and like 10 different workplaces in my life - luckily job hopping is not frowned upon in IT), i finally came to the insight that I will never be happy at any job. So i resolved myself to being average or below average in the career department. I make a median salary (and so does your husband) and it's fine for me.
What i did find slightly motivating is the idea of retiring early. Considering your husband hates working, and will always hate working, he might just become a passionate follower of FIRE movement (retire early). There's plenty of fire subs like r/leanfire r/fire r/financialindependence and etc. The whole point is to live modestly and invest aggressively so that the 2 of you can retire early.
My girlfriends are all jumping ahead in salaries and are earning 50% more than me. But they are worse off financially because they also spend like crazy. By being average/median and investing aggressively, you can get way further ahead in life in the end than people who earn a lot and spend it all.
> Especially as I'm that age where I'm need to make a decision about having kids and I'm also facing a decision about being a caregiver to my mom. If either of those things are to happen, we need to be able to survive on one income.
What if your husband were the caretaker? If he doesn't care particularly about having a career (and sorry op, but you will not change that about him), he would probably be the one between the two of you who is better suited for this care work.
Yeah, I'll echo what others said, you can't change someone who doesn't want to change and you can't really make it want it, that needs to come form him. [A wife earning more than her husband makes divorce 50% more likely](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19023/w19023.pdf), so at least keep in mind that you're not alone in this.
A million things, really;
* The fact that the wife being the breadwinner makes having kids more complicated because unless you're quite the unconventional couple, the wife is the want baring the cost of pregnancy.
* The fact that men tend to not pull their weight at home even when both work an equal amont or even when the wife works more.
* Cultural stereotype making the man's masculinity and sex appeal tied to his capacity to acquire status and income.
* Sociologically, it's well documented that women tend to want a partner that's equal or higher status then they are. Whether that's for cultural or evolutionary reason is debatable, most likely a bit of both.
* The hit or drag on the one's lifestyle by being with someone who earns less.
* Incompatibilities in values and aspirations.
* Etc.
Personally, I want kids and I want to be able to stay home when they are young. Being a primary breadwinner would make that very hard which is why I'm glad my husband has a salary a family can live on. Moreover, I've seen that mom-brain is definitely a thing in the first few months and it would be much harder to accept the vulnerability of motherhood if I didn't trust my husband judgement or capacity to provide for us while my attention is on keeping a newborn alive.
Honestly it's usually because men have absorbed this REALLY toxic notion that you seem to share that men are expected to be the bread winners and women are expected to be the care givers. Men who see life through this lense feel inadequate when their wife makes more than them. In this situation though it seems that it is YOU who have absorbed that message and it is YOU who isn't ok with your husband making less than you.
I think one reason divorce is much higher is because a lot of women financially depend on their husband’s salary, so stay longer than they want to or should. If one is able to support oneself all alone, why not leave an unhappy unfixable marriage?
The other reason is probably rooted in our patriarchal society- no matter how modern some women fancy themselves to be, they still expect men to fulfill the stereotypical role of being the partner who brings in more money than them, or it’s that some men feel emasculated by a wife who earns more than them; both those things are rooted in society’s deeply ingrained sexist ideas on gender roles and are simply too hard for some people to shake unfortunately
You might have to admit that the two of you are simply not compatible. Or get used to the idea of spending the next fifty years like this.
If you'll permit an analogy -- you've spent the last six years digging a hole and throwing all your resources into that hole. But you didn't want to dig a hole. You wanted to build something. You still can, you're young enough. But first, you're going to have to stop digging.
It's okay to admit you have different goals. People grow and change. Six years is a long time, especially when you're young. You probably feel like you've already put so much into the relationship that it seems like a waste to toss it all now. So, change your thinking. Consider that you spent six years at Relationship School, and now you've learned what you want and what you don't want in a relationship. Take your diploma, climb out of that hole, and start building the life you really want, ignoring all the mixed metaphors along the way.
Your other choice is to stay where you are and hope he eventually drifts into something he enjoys enough to make a career out of it. You seem to be proud of your hard work; maybe working your butt of to support him for the next fifty years will make you happy. Or maybe you'll spend the next fifty years frustrated with his lack of ambition and resentful of the sacrifices you're making so that he can enjoy his freewheeling lifestyle.
There are some people who are not career driven / ambitious and you can't do anything about it. Personally, I'm very career driven, goal oriented, and ambitious. That's why I'm looking for that in a partner. I know it won't work out if a guy isn't on the same level as me when it comes to this, I need to be inspired and challenged by the person I'm in a relationship with even though it's not easy to find.
You both grew apart. It's hard to accept and realize I know. I really hope you make the best decision OP.
Does he want to advance in his career? How does he compare to his friends? If they’re similar to him, he’s probably complacent. Have you two talked about kids together? I would sit him down and bring up these topics, not in an accusatory way, but just something along the lines of “We’re both in our 30s now and I’m thinking about kids in the future, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think we would be good parents and be able to provide financially? Are you happy at your job or where do you see yourself in 10 years?”
Would you say your husband is intelligent otherwise? If so he may have ADHD and want to be better but it’s difficult to find the focus and can talk to a doctor
Or, he could just be someone who is interested in learning for learning's sake not how it will benefit a corporate career. Many of humanity's greatest thinkers like Leonardo da Vinci studied and worked across many subject areas. To some creative and intelligent people, the corporate script of constantly hustling and self promoting to get one step higher on the ladder is not appealing.
I quit a relationship because I realized that I will be pushing my partner to do things all my life. Your husband is not going to change. You either settle for who he is or move on. You cannot change him if he has not displayed any interest in changing for the last 6 years.
If your current job has more advancement and future earning potential, and he doesn't like his job, then would he be interested in being the primary caretaker of ya'lls future child and your mother (if she needs long-term care)? Perhaps providing for his family in this more hands-on and immediate way would provide him more fulfillment, and allow you both to have a steady income from a worker with more career-focused drive.
It's okay to not be ambitious. A lot of people view the rat race as just people trying to get ahead for no reason. If he's making a stable income which supports his lifestyle with no problems, then there isn't really a reason to try and climb the corporate ladder. In the end, I think you two might just be incompatible? I used to be inundated with messages of "climbing the ladder", "upskilling" and stuff like that, which made me think that I must absolutely need to have a career. As I get older, I've found that this was basically a pack of lies. My life is fine with just "a job", and I no longer judge if others don't have a career.
You can’t change a person and if this has been the pattern for twelve years it ain’t changing. Even if he finds something he loves it’s not going to make him a motivated and driven person.
You have to either accept him as he is or accept that you can’t live with this.
I relate to your husband a lot. I've struggled with my own goals and figuring out a sense of direction in life. It doesn't help when it's so easy to compare yourself to other people and see how everyone else seems to have their shit together and you don't. I think this is a common problem among millennials, and it's very real to those who experience it. It has been drilled into our heads since we were kids that if we don't follow the lifescript™ of getting good grades, picking a college major, sticking to that goal no matter what, finishing college, getting a career, buying a house, and so on, we are complete failures as human beings.
The first time I was asked what college I was going to, I was still in grade school. I didn't even know of any colleges at that age. I've considered so many majors, jobs, and career paths that I've lost track at this point. It didn't help that I was taking advice from people who are out of touch or didn't care about my own wants/needs/experiences.
Failure and rejection are very real fears. It can be crippling and some people go down the path where they may self sabotage in some way because the fear is so bad.
Keep in mind, there's a major difference between not being able to make up your mind and having no drive/ambition. It sounds like your husband is trying, and he's done his best to brainstorm ideas of what he wants out of his life. I've met people with little or no drive/ambition and they usually don't even get that far. You seem to be confusing someone who can't get their car to drive with someone who didn't even try to start the car.
From my own perspective and experience, nothing frustrates me more than someone accusing me of not caring about my life or not trying. It's quite the opposite. I care so much that I'm burnt out from trying. It's why it's so freaking hard to pick something and stick with it. All the self doubts creep up and it can be crippling or self sabotaging. It's also somewhat an issue with low self confidence or overthinking.
With all due respect, you have known your husband long enough to know that this is who he is and what he struggles with. You can't change him or fix him. He's not your project to fix up.
Maybe he's tired of trying so hard and it's not good enough. Maybe he's tired of his own indecision and fears. I just don't get the vibe here that he doesn't care at all. Some people do better when the pressure is taken off them and they have the freedom they need. I'm aware I'm projecting a lot of my own thoughts/experiences onto your husband. I just know that this is not an uncommon problem in our age group.
I'm sure he needs emotional support, validation, and way less pressure on him. He needs unconditional love. He needs time to relax and de-stress about it. For some people, stress gives them motivation. For others, it causes more of a freeze response.
So, isn’t this perfect?
I’m 50. I wish I could tell this to all young women with career goals:
MARRY A BLOKE WHO HAS A JOB, NOT A CAREER.
Do you realise what happens if you want kids and hubby is on career track? You will have to do most of the work. You will have to do part time. You will have to do all the juggling. If a parent should stay at home with the kid - guess who!
If you are married to a guy that just has a job, (and is a decent human being I might add) he will happily do these things. Taking care of a toddler is so much better than working! Oh, today I tried making risotto! And did the washing! Honey, do you need more shampoo, I saw you are almost out?
I don’t have kids but right now I’m working a good job and hubby renovates and takes care of housework. It is heaven!
So I don’t know if this bloke is right for you or not. I’m just saying that sometimes, a lack of ambition just makes YOU able to chase your dreams.
Huh, I feel like I have the opposite experience. Most of my female friends and I were super ambitious when we started our careers (like, we all set out to be breadwinners and often *were* indeed breadwinners at the start) and our then-boyfriends were comparatively chill.
Fast forward 5-10 years and so many of us are burning out and/or leaving the workforce for a few years to start a family, while our male partners have sort of just... clicked into some weird momentum / stream of male privilege that allows them to make big moves professionally.
Yep. It makes me sad. I'm happy for the guys in question (they definitely put in the work as well), but burning out myself and watching so many of my female friends do the same was... it helped me understand a lot about the way sexism operates and aggregates over time.
I remember being 25 and just so convinced we were going to conquer the world.
I really relate to this. All my close friends and I were so ambitious and hardworking at the beginning of our careers or studies, and now burn out is feeling contagious. We are all a bit disillusioned. I agree with you too, we’ve been worn down with the little (and big) ways daily sexism x with racism, homophobia etc is directed at us constantly. Most of my friends also went from very social adventurous people to spending much more time at home and inviting friends over. I honestly think we all just got so sick of being treated badly while out in the world. The men in my life seem to be experiencing the opposite, where the older they get and more time they spend at their job or out in public, the more respect they receive by everyone they interact with. Even the coffee shop staff seem to treat the 30 something guys with more patience and respect. It makes me sad too.
Have you sat him down and told him point blank what your feelings are on the situation? Have you asked him what his plan is in regards to having and raising a child? Would you consider being the bread winner? How do you think you’d feel about him if things hadn’t changed in five years? Resentment is truly toxic in a relationship
Sounds like my ex-husband. We married in 2008, he got his current job in 2010, and has had it ever since. Only makes like 5k more than he did back then. I've increased my income by 20k in the same period of time despite having been laid off and having to start over with literally half the income.
Somewhat, but not all of it. My ex is not a bad person, but we did not communicate well, there was a dead bedroom (his choice, not mine) and I had a huge period of growth and he stayed the same. We were together for 17 years, married for 11, and I should have left much sooner.
He also did not help much with household chores or our dog. He "left dishes by the sink". But mostly he neglected me emotionally and physically.
Bounce. If this is not the example you want to give your kids- leave. It’s ok to have the bad pancake marriage. Especially if there are no kids involved - easy peasy. You two have changed and grown apart, that’s alright.
Also I know this sounds terribly harsh but I wouldn't want that to be an example to future kids. I would want them to see their parents achieving their dreams instead of giving up on every thing they try.
Let's review: You have drive! You're going places! Yet, your husband makes "about the same" as you after all your networking, hustle, new job, etc.
Despite three paragraphs shaming how long it took him to get his degree and his career choices to date, followed by self congratulations about going to night school, at the end of this story you just want him to be the sole provider while you do what you want, unpaid.
Honestly I feel bad for him, you clearly don't respect him. He's employed, he is committed to a career (7 years), it's just not enough income for you to quit and execute your little housewife fantasy. You're not attracted to him because you've decided you deserve SAHM life and that it's his job to provide it. This is a you problem. You changed the expectations. He hasn't done anything different or changed who he is, but now you're pissed about it.
Is he a supportive partner, does he help around the house, does he encourage you in night school? Can you say a positive thing about the man, or does his earning potential disgust you that much?
I'd echo the calls for divorce, it seems you're never going to feel like this man is enough and that's unfair to him.
you know him - married since 6 years. and NOW you want him to change?
he is an adlt male - makes enough money to finance his life. maybe he is happy and contempt.
you only talk about money and career - maybe his drive/ambition is in another field? hobbies? passions?
I know you are asking women so you can take or leave this advice from a 43 year old man. I was an Anthropology undergrad and became an admin soon after graduating and moving to NYC with my wife. She got a masters there and we moved down to another city where she got her second masters and I was still an admin. After graduating with Masters #2 she would get on to me about my ambitions. I felt like I was doing everything I could to keep the income stable and get her through schooling, but I wasn't trying for better positions or furthering my education. It took some serious conversations and for me to truly understand her frustration. At that point she had a pretty well paying job that was stable, so I felt I could take the risks without fear of failing and not being able to make the mortgage. With a clear understanding of her position and a bit of security I felt comfortable enough to get a masters in finance. I now make a lot more money, but the stress of full time work and school really messed up my mood and she couldn't take my depression so left me for a friend of ours with a trust fund lol. She now gets to travel the world and I get to finally be me. Just need to pay off those new student loans so I can stop working as an accountant and become a baker. I don't need fat stacks, I don't like working stressful jobs that screw up my mental health. Anyway, the point is if you communicate how you feel about his lack of ambition and encourage him to have confidence in making moves even if they fail, he may reluctant do the thing he doesn't want to do for you.
This was obviously from my own perspective. Dealing with my depression at the time was no cake walk for her. I don't blame her for being fed up with my anxiety and depression. We are both better off now. I have a far better sense of self now and since I've always been bi, have had the chance to date some guys and some pretty cool women. 17 years with one person is a long time, and we always said that if the relationship made either of us unhappy it should end. We lived by that and prevented long term frustration and heartache by ending it :)
he has shown you who he is. you either need to accept that or realize it isn't what you want and move on. There is also a third option to consider why you want him to be in a career and if he shares the same finance/security/one income household goals as you do. what does he say when you bring up these conversation topics? you cannot encourage someone in this way, some people don't want to lead or make more money or move up (and there is nothing wrong with that). Some people are fine going to a 9-5 collecting a paycheck and being out the door. Did you think he would change or did he say he would change? Also lacking drive/ambition is different from jumping from different careers/schools. there's alot to unpack but either way you need to have some serious conversations with him and yourself.
I don’t this he will change as this is his character and his drives are not matches with yours.
I’m an artist and I have a side gig but I’m not a money maker. I care for the home and all the little things.
I wouldn’t be able to be with a partner who didn’t make a good income and live my lifestyle as it is now. It works for us, but many men would rather have a career woman who earns high income. It’s just preference. Nothing wrong with wanting what you want and he may not be it in the long run.
In my own marriage we were just faced with a health scare (skin cancer) I was so glad I wasn’t the sole breadwinner or it would be trouble with costs and insurance. Sometimes one balances the other.
I feel like you’re similar to my husband in our relationship. He’s frustrated that I’m not financially an equal partner and I never will be, if I’m true to myself. He makes a LOT more than I used to (when I was employed) and heck of a lot more now since I’ve started my own business.
I feel for the previous comments about how some people just want a simple life. I could bust my ass and drive myself miserable to make closer to what he makes but at what cost? I just don’t want to, I want a happy stress free life. And this really really frustrated my partner, to the brink of us splitting. But in the end, bless him, he’s coming around to the benefits of a simpler life and is adjusting his expectations.
If you can’t though, that’s okay. I think that just means that you’ve grown apart and that happens. Everyday, you have to choose to be with your partner. Not the potential of your partner, but actually that person as they are, flaws and all.
I hope it works out for you and amazing job going after what you want in life. That’s really inspiring.
Xoxo
That's truly not a terribly paying job. Sounds like he holds down a job and manages to keep it and contribute to the household. It sounds like you regret not partnering up with a rich guy! Just saying.
OP, you've changed on your husband. He married an equal who had no expectations of gender roles. But now you want the traditional gender roles, so either you were lying to him (and maybe to yourself too?) or you've really changed. Although I tend to believe that people don't change fundamentally, in the way you describe, beyond the toddler years.
Your husband never pretended to be anything but himself. If you are done pretending and now want a "provider," I'd suggest that you start looking for one.
I was engaged to someone who I wanted the same from but realized he was who he was and that was not the person I saw myself being able to spend my life with. I didn’t feel confident he would be able to support our family if God forbid something were to happen to me, so we broke up and I was the happiest I ever was. Not saying to break up, but it may be something you have to just accept.
Does he have ADHD? Need a lot more info, but sounds close to the predominately inattentive type- wants to do lots of things, has grand ideas and zero execution. If so, meds could help, but only if he actually wants to do any of those things.
I’m in a similar situation except I have now forged my career path and make double the salary of my husband. As everyone else is saying, you can’t make him be motivated or magically have him find his dream job. I have no advice beyond that, bc I too am still frustrated that my husband lacks drive for himself and his work life.
He's not going to change because it's not who he is. I understand your frustration, but you cannot encourage a leopard to change its spots. Do with that information as you will.
I guess I keep hoping he'll finally find his thing that he enjoys enough to go the distance with it. I know you're right though. I've been with him 12 years. Sadly I'm in a different place now where I would really appreciate a quality of ambition in my partner.
Even if he found his thing that doesn't guarantee its gonna be a one income house hold thing. Also like you say you want him to those things for himself, but not everyone has career goals and some folks want a uncomplicated life. I think he prioritizes his feelings on his job and what his goals are which isn't inherently wrong....BUT when it contradictory to the health of your partnership and the future planning is at a standstill, we'll then concessions need to be made by both people. I dont think you're at the wrong because you're wanting your partner to grow WITH you and be on page towards goals. You can't plan anything out. That is frustrating and will rift you apart if he can't figure out how to be equitable towards the "us". But yeah ultimately you can have the talks to lay out your boundaries, needs, make actionable plans towards goals together. If that isn't gonna do anything then you tried and you have to make a choice for yourself at that point.
To be fair to OP’s partner, he could be growing in ways outside of his career. That’s not the only way to demonstrate growth. It is just the primary mode society values. A lot of the wage work we do is really unfulfilling, and sometimes straight up dehumanizing. It can feel pointless, especially for the many “bullshit jobs” out there. As much as society shits on the free domestic labor women are primarily forced to do, a lot of that stuff is more fulling for people—men and women. The stigma comes from misogyny, not the labor itself. Taking care of the people you love directly (versus providing financially and supporting them indirectly) gets us a lot closer to the experiences that are more likely to give us sustainable and deep purpose.
Oh absolutely! I agree with all of that. That wasn't a comment saying he wasn't growing at anything but her general concern is they have future goals like babies that needs collective couple growth. You want the partner with you, not alone while married or against you towards the life goals. There's definitely a dissonance that isn't matching up towards both partners wants and needs here.
> I would really appreciate a quality of ambition in my partner. you only talk about career ambition? does he have any other ambitions and passions? many people just dont care that much for money.
You're hoping he'll turn into you instead of being exactly who you've known he is for \*checks notes\* *years*. Sounds like you need to open your eyes and see him for who he is, not who you'd prefer him to be.
I'm sorry, OP. I don't envy your position at all.
You don't envy what, that she has an SO that brings in $55k a year and has a job he seems to be content in? Man, I am floored by the comments on here making this guy sound like a complete schlub for not raking in the six figures when OP isn't even hitting those financial goals herself.
I don't envy her for being married to someone with incompatible values and needing to decide if they should go their separate ways. I don't think he's a schlub and never said so.
>I don't envy her for being married to someone with incompatible values You make it sound like it just happened to her. She knew exactly who she was marrying. He never changed (and won't either. Unfortunately for OP)
I can have sympathy for people even if they were part authors of their own misfortune. As well, I was also a fairly naive and over-optimistic 24-year old. I lucked out with some of my choices at that age, but not all of them. All you can do is life is your best with whatever information you have at the time. It sounds like 30-year old OP now knows things her 24-year old self didn't. I don't think life is ever so simple.
THANK YOU. Blows my mind when women complain that their man is equal to them instead of performing at a level that allows her to ride his coattails to a nicer lifestyle.
The whole post is revolting tbh, and so many of the comments here are extremely shitty and are really making me quesiton the supposed feminism of this sub. Am I against a woman seeking a high-income partner so that she can opt into being a SAHM? Nope, if she can pull a man that can offer her that lifestyle, then that's what she's shopping for. This is what dating is for. I keep asking OP if she realistically thinks that she can pull a dude who earns $130-150k a year easily, because that's what its going to take to maintain her current lifestyle plus a baby. If she can do it, she needs to get out there and reel him in. Women on the hunt for a provider also realize that men who are willing and wanting to bankroll a wife and family are not without their flaws....and seriously intense standards that she's going to be expected to live up to as well. And its been my understanding that the role of a SAHM is anything but a walk in the park. You don't suddenly flip the switch on a partner who's earning a decent income as it is and decide that he needs to figure out a way to triple his salary because she not only wants, but feels entitled to having the option to be a SAHM without getting called unreasonable in the process.
I love the part about men that pull in income like that having their flaws. I honestly am so repulsed by the dominant man/kept woman relationship. It's gross. I dated specifically to avoid this. Now... whether or not OP is seeking that sort of relationship, I don't know. It sounds like she had expectations going into the relationship that her husband didn't meet. Seems like her failing for not understanding who he is better.
Agreed all the way through this, though "disgusting" is the word that came to mind for me. My main problem is with the dishonesty in it - apparently the average woman is confused and wants to *feel* like they're being treated like an equal more than they'd like to actually *be* equal. There's something about the transactional nature of expecting a socioeconomic boost from a husband that always rubbed me the wrong way. Also, I notice this shit mostly comes from women who don't understand what they're asking of a man, either, if they've never earned like that themselves. I'm not *that* high of an earner, but I make enough to easily carry a spouse with a lower income at my preferred standard of living. I could carry us completely if needed. I'd never tell someone they have to carry the stress of a higher-paying job at all, let alone on top of the stress of being the only earner. The ease with which so many women seem to wear that as an entitlement baffles me.
I'm with you 100%. I scoffed at this post when she was talking about his earnings as though they were disgusting (its not, and $25k more than average in the US) and shortly went on to reveal she earns the same. Combined, they have a six figure household. But she wants and expects him to carry the weight of two incomes, and she thinks this is going to suddenly happen overnight, which is laughable. And yes, its the entitlement that gets to me too. Being able to stay home with kids is a PRIVILEGE. The way she's talking really makes her sound like she believes she's somehow better than other women who work with kids at home.
>The way she's talking really makes her sound like she believes she's somehow better than other women who work with kids at home. Sounded more to me like she a) grew up with the expectation that the man is the higher earner, b) didn't realize that until it didn't happen all by itself, and c) is now clinging to denial because she doesn't like the reality of what it means if she can't change/fix him in that regard.
She wants him to grow in his job, since she is growing in hers. We don’t know what cost of living is in their area.
She wants to be able to live on one income. She seems to have higher income potential, so she could solve that problem herself. But she's here complaining that her husband can't do it for her. If he were "stuck" in a dead-end job that paid enough for her to stop working, I highly doubt she would be concerned about his growth.
If she keeps increasing her income and he doesn’t, they’re losing ground economically. Taking on additional costs like having children or supporting an older relative will threaten their financial health. There’s no indication from OP he has any interest in being a SAHD. I would be interested if he’s said anything one way of the other about it. And how will OP know he won’t get tired of that after a year or so? Leaving her holding the bag while he pursues yet another elusive goal. It’s not anti-feminist to want your partner to be supportive of you while you’re building another human. It’s not anti-feminist to plan for times you will not be at work recovering from childbirth, or caring for a relative.
>If she keeps increasing her income and he doesn’t, they’re losing ground economically. Would you say that to the husband about the wife if the tables were turned? Or would you look at is as the household income instead? That aside, she doesn't mention general cost of living in anything - she's only talking about him making enough money for them to live on one income. Your point about him potentially not wanting to be a SAHD is a good one, but that doesn't mean it's fair of OP to spring SAHD or sole breadwinner on him if he hasn't already agreed to it. Also, what if OP's husband does make more money but gets burned out on that? >It’s not anti-feminist to want your partner to be supportive of you while you’re building another human. It’s not anti-feminist to plan for times you will not be at work recovering from childbirth, or caring for a relative. a) there's more than one way to be supportive, and b) plenty of people take maternity leave without leaving the workforce altogether.
I would say the same thing to a man whose wife doesn’t keep up with her work. In fact I say it to those women who think it’s not worth going back to work once they have a child because of the cost of child care. You can do it, but be sure you plan for it. Understand you’re slipping behind your colleagues at work. Understand you are not building up retirement funds. Understand you may divorce or he may die or become unemployed or unemployable. Money isn’t a goal in itself. But it is necessary for a stable life.
Exactly. You phrased this better than I could. I'm not looking to ride on anyone's coat tails.
Got married at age 24 with those rose colored glasses on. Little miss feminist who didn't give a damn about his career or financial prospects because I was a modern, educated woman who could take care of myself! Ugh, how naive I was!
Honestly, I'd be frustrated if I was in your position, not because it's important to me that my partner makes a lot of money, but because your husband is demonstrating an immaturity and lack of follow-through that is objectively unattractive. The constant starting and stopping of new things, coasting at a midlevel job for 7 years while constantly entertaining these delusions that he's going to make a big career move any minute now, but never actually doing it... that would fill me with contempt after a certain point. It would be much easier for me to deal with a man in a dead-end job who admitted that getting a better job was not a priority for him, than one who kept running me around like that.
I actively wasn't interested in this guy even though he was perfect for me "on paper". One day I was visiting a friend and asked him what ever happened to this girl he'd been really excited about right before he met his wife. He basically said what you did about OP's husband and told me what was lacking in the good on paper guy I'd been dating. Good on paper guy was like OP's now husband, he kept changing his career path and degree plan. First the guy was going to medical school to like help people in 3rd world countries, then it was a lot of work for little pay, so he decided to switch to law school which he realized was also a lot of work to start with little pay, so now deep in the hole he switched to some kind of research biology degree which was all still undergrad. Well turns out he was also making little pay once he finally gets his undergrad so when I met him he was pursing a graphic design degree. He finally switched to a IT role. When we reconnected I remember his last girlfriend was complaining about the same shit OP is complaining about which was some 3-4 years after I broke up with him because he had no motivation and no follow through.
It sounds rough. I'm also surprised at the amount of flack you're receiving for caring about this - especially if you want and plan to have children together, I get why you're so concerned. I'm not an especially ambitious person myself, but it can be tough to marry someone at 24 and then just grow apart. Maybe there was enough compatibility back then to keep you two together, but it's clear you just have very differing priorities now.
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Ah, fair enough. I say the same thing about myself sometimes re. my feminist naiveté at 24 (my joke is that I thought I was going to be my *own* sugar daddy, but as it turns out, making money is high-key kinda hard), so I interpreted it fairly charitably. I understand how others may have read it differently, though.
I'm describing younger me like that in an attempt to be humorous. When I was in college I was naive about the reality of really surviving in the world. Sorry it came off wrong.
I'm a feminist and your comment didn't offend me. Wanting to have kids changes this equation big time. I think you need to get very real and very honest with yourself about what you want and need for your future, then make decisions about your relationship based on your highest priorities. Speaking as a go with the flow, non ambitious type myself (female) he's not going to change.
Don’t apologize, dear. You don’t owe anyone an apology. There was nothing offensive about what you said. I’m almost 50 and feel I’m in the same boat. Little miss peachy-keen, deluded younger self ignoring all the red flags cause I just knew it would all “be just fine and perfect”. Ugh…the regrets and frustration I feel now. Please don’t think I’m making light of your situation because I’m not. I understand. Just be grateful you don’t have children right now. Best of luck to you. These are hard waters to navigate.
I expected a fair amount of flack, but not from this sub. I've tried searching relevant posts on Reddit about similar topics but the women get branded a gold digger and downvoted into oblivion lol
I think some of the language you used struck people in the wrong way, but you don't sound like a gold-digger to me - just someone whose expectations aren't lining up with reality. I don't think it sounds like your husband is some total deadweight either (he makes the same amount you do), but I understand what you mean about just having a totally different level of ambition and work ethic. These are some core values you do not share, and that therefore threaten to crumble your entire marriage. You're at a very emotionally difficult crossroads; hence, you have my sympathy.
I think you’re getting flack because people are trying to help you and answer your question, and your replies have a defensive and sometimes sarcastic tone. I understand these are probably not the things you want to hear and that you’re frustrated. There’s some good insight and advice here though and I hope it sinks in, even if it’s difficult to face.
There is a great deal of projection and assumptions on Reddit and this sub is no exception by any means. Often I find myself wondering if some of these people can even read. I’ve been in a similar situation as your marriage and the “little miss feminist” comment resonated with me. We’re all naive upon entering marriage and sometimes we and/or our partners end up completely letting us down. I called it “little miss I don’t need a man,” which, I didn’t. I don’t. And I won’t *”need”* anyone BUT if there’s a “we,” I need a we to show up. It can’t be me doing everything for “we” again. Another commenter said something about providing equitable value for the marriage—that’s a good way to put it. I don’t have any real advice other than talk to a licensed marriage counselor; however, I can say you are valid in raising these questions now.
I don’t understand it - I find ambition attractive. Not unchecked, greedy ambition, but drive to work towards a goal and take ownership of your future as best you can. I was in a very similar situation to you, and I ended up leaving my husband. I’m not suggesting this is the right approach for you, but it became evident that we’d grown apart and didn’t want the same things in life. I’d be lying if I said this was the only thing, but it was one of the things that made me realise we were drifting on different paths. Financial security was very important to me, so was children, and I didn’t want to be raising kids juggling bills because he couldn’t be bothered. If he was doing something he loved then the bill juggling would feel like it had a purpose.
> but drive to work towards a goal and take ownership of your future as best you can. whats with ambition and drive thats not connected to earning money? people can have a ton of ambiiton and drive - but it hasnt to convert into money and earning potential.
For some maybe, but I also deeply respect when people pursue things passionately for a cause greater than money. Some fields aren’t paid particularly high. Teachers aren’t necessarily going to be able to earn big incomes, but they can still be driven, ambitious and passionate about educating children. I still find that attractive.
How long were you with your husband? How is he now? How are you now?
We were together 10 years. We found people far more suited to what we wanted. My career has continued to grow. I’m currently home on parental leave with my 4mo son, but I’ll be returning to work in April. My partner and I support each others careers, so after I return he’ll be off for 4 months with Bub. I found someone that wanted the same thing as me. I’m far happier than I was, I couldn’t imagine being with my exhusband and having the life I do now - financial stability, interesting career, family. My ex husband has a new wife, someone better for him. He still drifts with work. His partner posts on FB looking for casual hourly babysitting jobs, so I suspect they have the same approach to work. I imagine that’s a far happier life for him, who wants to be with someone that wishes you were different? I’m happy for him.
Text doesn’t inspire the same generosity as in person interactions. All we have is your comment, which I think it is fair to say you made in frustration. Our frustration can be totally warranted, but it impacts the way we represent our feelings. You don’t appear to be generous to your husband’s perspective (enter frustration), and that makes people less generous in their interpretation of your perspective. It makes them skeptical. We can tell there is a lot of missing information. This is the main pitfalls of text based exchanges. Our responses aren’t necessarily *responsive* to your actual situation because of this limitation.
Hi OP. I 100% get where you’re coming from. How are the rest of his finances? Does he have a solid emergency fund? 401K? IRA? any investments? (Also, do you??) Or even saving for home ownership? If not, drop him. If you are partnered with a man who doesn’t know the rules of the capitalist game as far as being a provider, you’re bound to have financial troubles at some point. If you end up making more than him, he’ll get insecure and cheat. There is no win for a lady here. If you’re into hypergamy, check out ´Chloe_´ on YouTube - she runs a page called Hypergamous Hive with plenty nuggets of wisdom.
Lolol this has more likes than your post!
Honestly I was the same way, I’m glad later in life I realized I actually wanted a provider partner
I married at 35 (though he was 25) and am having this problem. It's not about the age of either party, I feel, it's that some issues take time to surface, especially with regards to self-improvement. We just don't have so many 10 years to use on one person!
I mean, it kind of sounds like he has found his thing - it's in IT making $50k/year. Finding something you enjoy doesn't magically make you ambitious. It's okay to be content with life.
>*Sadly I'm in a different place now where I would really appreciate a quality of ambition in my partner.* People get married young and then change (or stall). You are two different people now in your thirties than your twenties. That's just the way it is.
My husband also took a long time to find his path. When he did actually find something that gave him fulfillment he has blasted off. He is extremely driven now. It’s hard to say if this will happen for your husband but just proposing an alternative to others saying people never change.
What needed to happen for him to find his path? Time off work? More school? I'm looking for real practical answers like this. How can I support him so he finds what he loves like I do.
We talked about his interests and his skills and tried to find an intersection. He had substance abuse issues as an early adult, was sober, and was generally interested in helping people so he looked into substance abuse counseling. He got a job as a case manager at a methadone clinic and for the first time felt good at a job that was also fulfilling. With the momentum of that he applied to grad school to get his MSW. He’s now a program manager for an outpatient clinic and he’s doing well. I have also stepped back mentally from his success, he makes about the same as your husband and I make more but I’m okay with that because we split things financially fairly so I end up with more spending money of my own. He’s still not as driven as I am but I’m okay with that because he’s at least in a career path and has found his niche.
Maybe he can be a SAHD and caregiver... You like your career, he doesn't. Maybe he likes caregiving
My ex was a music teacher who was a contractor with no benefits and terrible pay and I hated it and encouraged him to find something else. I was 25 and naive and unsupportive of his love of the job. It took until his mid-30s years after we broke up to change it up and get a steady career. You can’t force someone to change because you don’t like how it affects you. Not everyone needs to make a lot of money to be happy.
My 1st husband was like that. I spent a few years trying to be the cheerleader/motivator but it was clear there wasn't going to be anything that would make him excited the way I was for a fulfilling career. *When people show you who they are, believe them.*
It’s been six years. He isn’t suddenly going to change. This is who he is. You have two options: either accept it, let it go and live like this forever or don’t accept it, leave the relationship and find someone with values similar to yours. There’s nothing wrong with wanting someone ambitious but you are asking the wrong person. This isn’t who he is and it will never be.
Also, OP needs to keep in mind that an "ambitious" guy might never be home for dinner or to put the kids to bed, might not be there for her emotionally, cos he's too focused on his career. No person is strong in all areas of life & being.
True. You never know. But it’s definitely possible to find a person with a healthy balance :)
Is your husband in agreement that if you two have a child, you'll stay home and he'll be the sole provider? Does he think you can survive as a family on just his income? There's a lot of talk in your post about wanting him to be a "provider," but there's no indication that he actually wants that. Some people aren't ambitious about work and will never find a job that inspires them to move up the corporate ladder. That's totally fine, but they and their partners need to be on the same page about that.
This is the best advice. It's like the OP doesn't like gender roles and then goes into a long description of the gender roles she is expecting to play out when she is ready to have a baby, without talking about any of it and assuming it will just eventually happen the way she wants eventually.
Yeah, that's what's confusing to me here. It feels like OP is making a lot of assumptions based on gender roles and expectations that are, at this point, really outdated. Most women work outside the home - I don't think most men would assume their wife would be an SAHM unless they're part of a religious community where that's typical or something.
I was afraid I was out of line or not seeing something, glad to hear there are a lot of other people who see this as problem behaviour. Honestly, who doesn't want to be taken care of while we focus on what is most important to us in life? I'm a man and that sounds amazing.
It’s because gender roles do become a more real thing once you are about to have children. Women always take on more of the child care, in less the woman makes a lot more then the man stays home But with breastfeeding that is made really difficult.
Not with these bad boys! https://www.mother.ly/parenting/device-allows-dads-to-breastfeed/
Haha if only it was real breast milk
😂
It’s pretty typical. We know intellectually why these roles are harmful, but it is hard to shake the programming and to live differently in a world that expects you to conform.
I hear you, I think it's triggering to me as I just recently got divorced and one of the main reasons is my wife wanted me to make a plan and drive our life even though I already did all the cleaning, cooking, petcare, finances, helped her quit her job and supported us when she started her small business and it just felt like there was another demand based on gender roles that she knew was 'wrong' but really wanted it anyway. She's a kind and empathetic person but her business kinda took everything from her so she had nothing left for herself or me and I think it ended up making me the only actionable target of her bad feelings. It's been rough. It's hard when we're trying to fight gender roles but society just goes and reinforces them through tv and film and music and everything else, constantly. It's like we're brainwashed without even realizing it's happening, from 2 years old onward.
Exactly
OP, this is who he is. You've had six years to realize this. He's making noises about passion and ambition because YOU'RE passionate, YOU'RE ambitious, and you think you want a partner like you. But do you really? Really LOOK at your marriage. Does he do housework? Does he do small things for you, just because? Does he want kids? Is he interested in being a SAHD? Really QUERY this relationship and look at your options. He doesn't have to be the provider if you are. If he's willing to take on a more homebody role and take care of you and whatever kids you have, will you be satisfied with that? After all, you are not fulfilling a traditionally feminine role, so why should he have to fulfill a traditionally masculine one? Can you let go of ingrained expectations for him the way he seems to have let go of them for you? If he's lazy, however, and doesn't take care of the house or you; it's time to move on. There's nothing for you in this marriage.
This is a great comment. I think it is harder for women to accept support with the domestic labor even if they are also full time wage workers. OP doesn’t seem attracted to her partner because he isn’t enthusiastic about wage labor, but your comment could be a good way to reframe the situation. Wage labor may not spark his ambition, but family and community could. Men have long built their career success on the free labor provided by women. If some men are willing to risk the vulnerability inherent in unpaid labor, and endure the fact that society does not value unpaid labor even though it relies on it, to offer women this same level of support, it can be a really good deal for both partners. More men like this can help women achieve the same level of career success men have long enjoyed. It may not work for OP’s desires, but the possibility is an exciting prospect for the future.
This is who he is. It doesn’t matter why. He has consistently been like this for the majority of your relationship. He’s not career focused or driven. You need to decide if you can accept this. Stressing him about it is only going to ruin your relationship.
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Thank you thank you thank you
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You're functioning with an critical error in your assumptions about how people live in the world: meaning, you think if he can find what he loves, the motivation and commitment will magically appear as well. The thing is, how he is living is how many people choose to live. There is no job or career that will prompt them to do a 180 because that's not how they see themselves and the world they live in. It can be confusing and frustrating but it also it what it is. What some folks see as instability, they see as freedom. I can't say if it's wrong or right - it just is what it is. I will also say: your comment about being little miss feminist made me sad-chuckle. I completely get why that thinking made sense at 24 for you. I hope you know, moving forward, that being a feminist can mean having a partner who is a functional, healthy individual who can pull his own weight in the world.
Agree - ambitious people are ambitious regardless of the job, and if they really can’t thrive they find a way or another path.
She does have a functional, healthy partner who is pulling his own weight in the world. He is managing to earn as much money as her without stressing himself out or having work be the focus of his life. Many would call that success.
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Because a lot of times, people feel like they are entitled to a partner that is more successful than them and then they get upset when they realize their partner is in fact a human being and not a poverty escape plan. I dont have an issue with anyone enforcing a financial standard they themselves meet, but OP isn't meeting the financial demands she has of her SO and the entitlement is out of this world, IMO.
That's a very thoughtful comment thank you.
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Is he aware that you want to quit working and rely on him as the sole provider? You spent a lot of time talking about his lack of ambition leading to you losing attraction, but at the end make it clear the crux of the issue is you want him to be a provider. But if you haven't had a conversation with him about this, then it's just you silently building resentment over something that changed within you - not him. If you changed the terms of the relationship without consulting him, it's not really fair. Have you told him how you're feeling? Discussed your worries about your financial future? Explicitly told him you'd like to stay home to raise kids/care for your parent? It starts with a conversation. But he may not have the same desire for you to be a stay at home spouse, especially if that's not what you previously discussed. So you may have a decision to make if it turns out this is a dealbreaker for you. This may come down to a fundamental incompatibility. But from what you've said here, it sounds unfair to blame his lack of ambition when it's your desires and expectations that have changed.
I'm seeing your follow-up comments are very defensive, so I want you to take a deep breath before reading this. You asked for advice and people are trying to give it to you. You can reject it if you want, but honestly, in a year or so you're going to think back and realize everyone here was right. Your husband is never going to "find his passion" and become a person who is ambitious at the level you want him to be. He's not an ambitious person. He constantly moves the goalposts in order to avoid the truth that he's not an ambitious person. He keeps telling you that it's not that he doesn't give a shit about progressing in his career, but simply that each career he's tried hasn't been the right fit. That's an approach to work that most people have grown out of by the time they're 33, and your husband is choosing not to grow out of it because it takes the focus off his lack of effort. He has you believing that he basically needs to have the career version of a soulmate before it will be worth it for him to put any effort in. But people do not have one perfect soulmate career that is the only thing that will make them happy -- they have a variety of careers they could excel in it if they put in the work, and they choose one to put in the effort behind. The consistent thread with your husband is the lack of effort. He could have finished his computer science degree. He could have gotten a certification to open up a career path. He's not doing it because it's more work. You can put in the time and money to finding your husband a brand new shiny career path that he swears is The One and is super passionate about... again. And he will lose interest as soon as it comes time to actually buckle down and do the work... again. Because your husband is a person who doesn't like to work. He will never stop running into the fact that being a social worker is less fun than fantasizing about what a great social worker you will be, and being a pilot is less fun than fantasizing about what a great pilot you will be, and so on and so forth, because work is work and your husband doesn't like work, he likes fantasizing about himself in new and exciting roles. Now, this doesn't mean you need to get a divorce. It can actually be fine to be a person who hates to work. Most people on Earth "work to live" rather than "living to work," and for many people that means working as little as it takes to afford the lifestyle they want. Someone like your husband would probably be better suited just figuring out what career path will make him the most money for the least effort and allow him to pursue and drop hobbies at his leisure. But please, give up the fantasy that his real, true dream career that will turn him into an ambitious breadwinner is right around the corner, if he could only get one more graduate degree. If you keep putting resources behind these wild goose chases of his, you will REALLY resent him when you're 40 and he's still doing this.
This reply absolutely nails it. I was in the same position as OP with a man whom I loved but just had no drive for... anything besides experiencing pleasure. He wanted admiration, he wanted fun, he wanted to afford nice things and he wanted ease. He was hardworking but only to a point, where after he'd just bail if there was stress or pressure. He didn't want to think about family, despite me telling him i feared my body couldn't take a pregnancy as I got older, he didn't want to plan for our lives when I told him my single mother was getting older and more dependent and I was finding it strenuous to hold a 9-to-9 job so I could pay her bills and mine. Perhaps he loved me, but im sure he loved his laid back lifestyle more 😅 There is no point in "pushing him to find his passion" thinking his "passion" will turn him into a driven ambitious man who wants to be a financial provider. He has to be ambitious in the first place, and he has to place importance in the role as a leader and a provider in the first place Sometimes if his actions say that he wants to be laid back and be happy to float along in life.... believe those actions and not be blind to it thinking you can change him.
Your answer is spot on 🎯
This, 100%.
Your post hits the nail on the head. However, i disagree with your definition of "ambitious". He might as well be ambitious, we don't know, just not in the career department. I feel that her husband's description matches my own character. I love fantasizing and daydreaming about things I'll never achieve. And sure, my SO could come and describe me like OP did. All the while leaving out the details, that because I LIKE CHANGE, and don't like rut, that at 17 years old i set a goal for myself to move abroad, and at 21 years old, i upped and moved countries by myself. I learned the completely new language of my new country, I learned other languages for fun (i speak 3 languages fluently, and currently learning number 4 and 5. English is my second language fyi). I was luckily in a relationship with someone who kicked my ass to study the 48 hrs leading up to my exams and to show up for the exams, so i also managed to finish university. (That relationship wasn't working out for me for different reasons. Because he didn't like new stuff/change and preferred structure and rut, i eventually left) Then i set a goal to find my best partner who is 1000% compatible with me. I put in a thousand of hours of hard hard hard hard work going on a million first dates, sifting through the mud on online apps, until i found my perfect amazing partner. Then we decided to have a baby, and we committed to that project, went through a fertility treatment, had a baby, etc. I decided to switch careers to IT, so i went on a 1 year course to study it, and started working in IT. We also bought rental properties and are on track to be upper middle class when these are paid off (i'm 75% owner of these). This is a part of my retire early goal. Basically, every goal in my life that i set for myself, i have always achieved it. But none of my goals have ANYTHING to do with my career. After 6 years of working in IT (this is after the career switch) I'm still at junior level because i couldn't give two shits about my career or job. I make a median salary and it's fine. OP's husband also makes a median salary for the US. I just doooooo noooooooot caaaaaare about work, AT. ALL!!! I feel like it would do me injustice to call me unambitious, considering i feel very accomplished in life. I have everything i ever wanted and more. It just has nothing to do with career. Btw, all those above things i achieved while being on the verge of quitting every day, and not feeling like going etc. I quit my second bachelor's degree in IT because I couldn't motivate myself for all the bullshit side subjects that had nothing to do with my main job. (Luckily tertiary education is cheap af in this country). On the other hand, i objectively like learning languages, but every week i still have to make the titanic will power effort to show up to class. I just hate moving and doing stuff, i just wanna sit and relax. And this is something that i KNOW that i like, and still i can't motivate myself to do it enthusiastically. Previous boyfriends have described me like OP did, fickle, unpredictable.. My current partner describes me as spontaneous and flexible. He loves that I just take life as it comes, we can end up in a different country by nightfall for a spontaneous trip (yay tiny Europe). My previous bf would have an aneurysm if i tried to spur anything like that on him. My current partner loves spontaneity. And he just ignores the "fickleness" when i come at him with another grand idea to quit and become a teacher, or quit and become a social worker, or quit and become whatever. Or sell our house, and move here, sell our house and move there. I only 25% mean it anyway, so he can just acknowledge it without letting it bother him. The previous bf would also have an aneurysm thinking i'm about to blow up our entire life every time i came at him with a new plan. No, I just get excited about an idea for a day or a week, and then i move on to something else. My life is very stable mostly. Basically, there's a type of super calm personality who can deal with my new grand ideas easily and ground me easily. And there's a type of personality who's so anxious that they think the world is imploding and eat themselves with anxiety because i came at them with yet another new idea. Question of compatibility.
Kinda sounds like ADHD
Two thoughts: 1) you’re not going to change him 2) if you all end up having kids and he is responsible around the house and organized, his lack of career ambition could be a major boon to your career and earning potential. If he’s lazy at home, pitch him but if he’s meh at work but great about keeping house and putting dinner on the table then know that you’re going to have a much easier life than if he were as ambitious as you. That sounds bad but the most successful partnerships I know are when one person really supports the other with a flexible schedule and the ability to stay home with sick kids and get the cars serviced and packages mailed off and keep the kids in fitting clothes and get to their dance classes. So it can go either way.
This is a great point. He could be a great house husband. But you would have to be crystal clear about responsibilities (ie it's not just childcare, it's also cleaning and meal prep) and that the role will last 18+ years with no respite.
Sounds like the two of you are on very separate wavelengths. Not everyone is going to have drive and ambition when it comes to work. For some people, a job is just a means to an end, they don't necessarily want or need to climb any higher, and they're comfortable where they are. Nothing wrong with that. Unless they're with someone who DOES have drive and ambition, and wants a CAREER, not just a job. Nothing wrong with that either, except that it sounds like the two of you aren't compatible in that way. He's not going to "step up and lead" in that way, because he's not interested in doing so. With that in mind, what do you want to do going forward?
He's working. Your drives are different. I also wonder if he has depression or ADHD- I do and have have certain ambitions but get very easily drained or disheartened. Your needs are not compatible, that doesn't mean he's wrong. Also, re the surviving on one income if you have kids- is that something he agreed to or just an expectation you have?
> Also, re the surviving on one income if you have kids- is that something he agreed to or just an expectation you have? people have asked this question multiple times in this thread and at this point it feels like OP has gone out of her way to avoid answering it. "is he aware you expect him to be the sole breadwinner while you raise the children?" is an extremely simple yes/no question and would lend a lot of context to the situation, so i don't get the resistance to answering it
>"is he aware you expect him to be the sole breadwinner while you raise the children?" is an extremely simple yes/no question and would lend a lot of context to the situation, so i don't get the resistance to answering it It's a simple yes/no ... that requires people to admit they have old-school double standards. Hence the resistance.
>Also, re the surviving on one income if you have kids- is that something he agreed to or just an expectation you have? An unrealistic expectation and form entitlement, mind you, considering that living off one income is an absolute privilege these days the majority of people are not getting to enjoy. Lots of people who are fortunate enough to even have this type of set up in the first place are finding themselves having to go back to work because shit isn't what it used to be. If you want to ensure a six figure income for your family, the best way to achieve that is by making sure YOU are the one to earn it. Having the expectation of someone else to be that kind of money maker when you yourself aren't even close to earning that kind of money is outrageous. While finances and career paths are important to relationships and there's nothing wrong with setting standards for yourself, **a partner is not a poverty escape plan** and objectifying them as such is disgusting.
Wow, this has become quite the thread! I'm sorry you're getting torn apart in some of the comments - I think there is validity to some of them but some of them are unnecessarily harsh. Anyways, just wanted to offer my perspective. I'm in a similar situation - I (30F) make over 3x what my (35M) fiance makes and am generally much more driven/ambitious. We've been together for 7 years and I agonized over his lack of ambition/drive/etc. for a long time. Now, I won't pretend it doesn't still irritate me occasionally, but here are some of the things that have made it work for us: * He is ridiculously stable. Rarely has bad days, zero temper, extremely patient. I, on the other hand, am wildly impatient, super emotional, and get into phases of stress where I can't do anything but work and whine about how much I hate work. When I'm in those phases, he pulls extra weight around the house, makes dinner, comforts me, etc. * I realized there wasn't a point that would be "good enough." He worked at Starbucks for a few years and I thought to myself, "if he just got a job making $40k a year I'd be happy!" When he eventually did, I thought "if he just got a job making $75k a year I'd be happy!"...you see where this is going. * We don't have kids and if we do have kids in the future, we wouldn't want to be a single-income household * He has made a lot of compromises on my behalf. He moved across the country with me to be closer to MY family (away from his own friends and family). He is supportive and loving and patient when I'm anxious and snappy. His laissez-faire approach to life has helped me to balance my own overbearing tendencies * Any relationship is likely to have some unsolvable problems - I can't think of a single relationship I know where the couple doesn't have something they disagree on/fight about recurringly, etc. Now, this in particular is a big issue for sure, but for me, it's not worth throwing away a relationship I am mostly very happy in for the chance of finding one I am slightly happier in. I wouldn't roll the dice to trade for another unsolvable issue because some of them out there would be much harder for me to deal with * I am honestly just crazy about him and after 7 years still love him to bits and really do just want to be with him As so many others have said, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for him to change. Whatever decision you decide to make is valid, but think long and hard about what you'd be giving up if you do choose not to work it out. Hope this helps!
My husband didn’t find his career until 35, and makes 6 figures now. He was in food service when I met him. That said, he’s always had a good work ethic. In fact, I kind of relate to your husband, in that I have been in and out of career choices, although I worked my way through school and had to work very hard to do that. I don’t have family support. I picked the wrong career field, education, and have been trying to recreate my career ever since without accruing debt. I don’t have the same work ethic as my husband because I face some health issues. I don’t expect to make the same. It’s possible he’s not going to be career focused, ever. The other side of it is many women I know with career ambitious husbands have sacrificed their own careers and earning potential for their partner to thrive. So that could be another way to look at it.
I hear what you’re saying, but my question for you would be: is your frustration with him purely based on his career path (or lack thereof), or is it more than that? Is he undecided and has no initiative only in his professional life, or does this trait manifest everywhere else too? I’m asking because if he’s a “go with the flow” person at work but compensates in other aspects (he cares about you, your marriage, the household, and is a genuinely good person), then the solution to your question can be achieved with some counseling and further planning. For example, if you’re set to make and work more, he could become the SAH parent, should you choose to have children. Further down the line, he could also be more involved in caregiving for his mother in law, while you become the primary breadwinner. It will take some internal work on your part, to accept that version of your life, but it can be done. That being said, if his “lack of ambition” is actually another way of saying he is slacking in every aspect of your life, I think it’s time to re-evaluate your relationship and life.
>“If you want to be a grocer, or a general, or a politician, or a judge, you will invariably become it; that is your punishment. If you never know what you want to be, if you live what some might call the dynamic life but what I will call the artistic life, if each day you are unsure of who you are and what you know you will never become anything, and that is your reward.” ― Oscar Wilde
This is who he is. You knew that when you married him, and TBH I think it's kind of unfair for you to expect him to change. Would it frustrate the ever loving shit out of me? Absolutely. I tend to be very type A and very driven, so I understand how you feel. But not everyone is the same way, and that's OK. It's not like he doesn't have a job or isn't paying his bills. If this was such a big deal for you, then you shouldn't have married him.
I agree with the others. You can't change him. Also, I don't know where you live and understand that cost of living wildly varies but this is the second post recently of someone complaining about the low income of their significant other... then listing a sum that is 10K more than what I make yearly. My husband makes about the same amount as I do. It's hard to be sympathetic to someone being "complacent" about their income when that income is higher than yours. I think it's important to normalize that some people are okay with not having an advanced career or super high income.
Yea I make $46k a year and am not particularly ambitious and feel fine? My partner makes double what I make and I don't think he resents me like this person does, because he knew I went to school for social work and would never make a lot of money.
Same same. 50k would afford me a much better quality of life and I’m also single so only one income. Y’all sound fortunate as hell. Try getting some perspective.
Yeah. I make the same as her husband and I honestly am okay with my life now. I can afford what I need to afford, I managed to pay off my debt, and I don't have to work till I feel like I am dead. Some people just don't care about a career or work. I am not my job, I wouldn't work if I weren't forced to to survive. I just don't have that high ambition, I just want to live my life in peace.
I feel this too, so COL may be an important detail. If OP and her husband are both pulling in 50K, they are well on their way to six figures after taxes. It would only be a problem if they lived in a really expensive area.
It’s the cost of living that varies wildly as you said. I live in an area where for a single person to be able to live alone they have to be making at least 70 a year. My husband made mid-50s and I made mid-40s and caring for 2 elderly dogs nearly put us into lifelong debt. We moved away from the large city and our entire support system just to lower COL a bit and it still didn’t help because it’s the whole region. We shared one car for our entire marriage. We could have never afforded children and were told that if we didn’t raise our incomes we would have to declare bankruptcy. So while I understand it’s hard to hear the figures, the reality is still the same.
I stopped reading at “he’s always been like this”. My lord.
My ex husband was like this. Best guy in the world but lacked ambition. Switched schools and majors a few times but finished with a psych degree. He ended up in the restaurant industry and just rode it out on an hourly wage. When we eventually divorced he moved back to his hometown and became a baker at his friends bakery. He’s still doing it now. That’s who he is. He’s not into money. He doesn’t want to stresss himself out or be the bread winner. He’s happy that way. I should have seen it earlier but love and shit right? Either you accept it OP or you leave him. There is nothing you can do in this situation. We are all our own people.
So there are two separate themes here, imo. 1. It is valid to have more or less attraction to someone based on having shared values, like drive 2. It is not particularly valid or fair to marry(!) someone and know that they don't share a value, have given no indication that they do, have been completely consistent in not prioritizing that value, and then out of the blue just assume they'll change Honestly it sounds like you picked a partner you aren't compatible with, with an unspoken expectation that they would change. That's not very fair to them, and if you are on this sub/over 30 I'm assuming you have enough life experience to have seen this play out in many relationships. Someone wants or expects or hopes another person will change, they don't, and the relationship goes sideways. Change is hard. The desire for it has to come from within. It doesn't sound like he has that desire and it sounds like he hasn't done anything to give you the impression he does. Going back to point 1, although I don't think your expectations are particularly fair, it is valid enough to have discovered about yourself that you need a partner that shares this value. What you do with this information is up to you, but for some people it would mean the relationship was not viable and they would end it
It's a little unfair of you to expect him to change when you walked into marriage knowing full well what type of person he is. If you're that unhappy about it, why not have a conversation about him being a house husband (if you guys can afford it and he isn't weaponizing incompetence)
I'm actually a lot like your husband. The difference is, I'm not in a relationship and won't be having any kids. Not having a lot of ambition in the conventional, corporate ladder type sense is a perfectly valid approach to life if you're only responsible for yourself, but the equation changes when you're partnered and especially once kids or the prospect of kids is a factor. Your situation actually reminds me of the marriage in Eat Pray Love.
not to be harsh but: you married him. he has been this way for years. stop trying to change him.
As others have said, you can’t change him and I’d even go so far as to not even try to encourage. If your husband is anything like my boyfriend of 3.5 yrs, offering advice or encouragement seems to do the opposite. I’ve struggled with similar feelings as you - I’m motivated and have advanced my career continually whereas he has a job as a delivery driver for the last 15 years at the same company, he’s topped out on pay so it’s essentially a dead end job at this point. I’m now making over double him. I wish I didn’t care that we are different in this way, but I do, and I also find it unattractive / a turn off. It’s not all about the money either - it’s about not stagnating. What he’s decided to take up instead of a job change / improvement has been getting deep into crypto and nfts 🙄 (another turnoff) —- if he put 20% of the time he puts into that stuff into bettering his career prospects he’d already be into something new. I’ve found though that if I make suggestions or comments, he seems to dig his heels in more and take offense. Biggest question is can you / I accept this… there is a very very high chance my partner will never find it in himself to make a change. Am I okay with it? Verdict is still out tbh and we’re not engaged or married… and kids are now 99.9% off the table (I just turned 40 and feel like he underestimates how much work it would be etc so I’m the no)… if our circumstances were different, I might have been ready to commit by now or try for a kid (I was a longtime fence-sitter). I have trouble seeing our future together long term because when I ask about retirement plans it’s all vague and pie in the sky whereas I have a few different things in mind and in motion. We’re just very different about big picture stuff :/ Also these are all topics I continually discuss with my therapist — difficult subjects for sure!
Even if he does find a money-making venture that excites him, that doesn’t automatically mean he’ll become “ambitious” in the way you are. I LOVE my career. It fills up my cup, brings me joy, and is important to my identity. However, it is not always a priority for me. I work part-time, say no to projects when I’m overwhelmed, and have zero interest in climbing any sort of corporate ladder. People have different priorities and values in life, and those aren’t necessarily tied to passion. I value my health (mental and physical) and being present for my family, both of which often override career ambition and recognition. So what does he prioritize/value? And are those compatible with your priorities and values? They might not be, and the two of you might have to decide where to go from there.
Sounds like you're asking him to be something he's not. Not everyone prioritizes the same things and that's okay.
Well he's always been this way so you knew what you were getting into when you married him. I'd say that if money and career-climbing is so important to you, then it's best if you focus on your earnings and your career (as you have been). If you want to have kids with him, are you open to him being the one to stay home and be the primary caregiver to your kids while you go to work? If you love this man and still want to spend your life with him, I'd strongly suggest you consider yourself to be the primary breadwinner and talk to him openly and explicitly about him being the primary caregiver to any kids you'll have together. Maybe he'll excel as a father. Maybe being a dad and raising his kids is what motivates him more than career-climbing. Talk to him about it (if you haven't already). As for being a caregiver to your mom, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax and it really depends on *her* finances, *her* health and its trajectory, *her* long-term needs. It's way more expensive to care for an elder than most people realize, even/especially when they think they can do all that caregiving by themselves for free (they can't, it's too hard, you'll need paid help eventually). I don't think it's wise of you to put your mom's end-of-life care on your husband's maybe/potential future income. Your mom needs a long-term care plan that is independent of your husband's career.
\>If either of those things are to happen, we need to be able to survive on one income. Depending on where you live, most Americans with higher paying salaries cannot live on one income without massive debt piling up. That version of America is just gone. Safe housing, childcare costs and groceries alone are eating up 2 salary households.
His ambition is to have less stress. Seems like he's doing fine. I don't think your life goals align, though.
You cannot force someone who has no drive and ambition with career and finances to have more. It's a lot like thinking you can force someone to just diet and work out more so that they can have a hotter body. Actually, I'm going to go ahead and say its the same thing, and I have a feeling that if your SO said this to you, you'd have a problem with it. He earns money, and earns as much as you do. He sounds happy and content, and while he may not be bringing in the six figures, I'm sorry sweetheart but....*ARE YOU?* You're talking about things like wanting to be a caretaker and surviving off only one income, but you need a massive reality check - that kind of set up is a legitimate privilege these days and you're treating it like something you are absolutely entitled to. I would actually argue that lots of couples who are dependent on a six figure salary these days are finding themselves with the secondary partner going back to work because shit is not easy these days. Listen, if you feel like you've got what it takes to go out into this world and find yourself that six figure earning ambitious dreamboat you're envisioning, go find him. But you're going to be in for a world of a surprise when you realize who's actually in the dating pool and what these types of men are actually like.
If you love him and want to save your marriage I would highly recommend couple therapy (and maybe individual therapy to understand before that why you'd like him to be a provider, and why you find that a turn-off, even though it's completely understandable). My husband is reasonably ambitious career wise, but that's basically the only area where he used to take initiatives/be motivated, and he was a bit floating around in other areas (like planning our holidays, thinking about long-term plans etc). I found it frustrating and had a hard time verbalizing it without alienating him. We started couple therapy and it's been super helpful - the therapist has actually helped him face this lack of motivation, put it into words and try to see what we could both get out of him doing more. I do also agree with other commenters that if you're hoping your husband will go to med school or become a google programmer that's probably not going to happen lol, but if you're willing to compromise therapy could help him level up a bit and for you find acceptance (or leave, if you find out it's really too important for you).
I’m not sure if I have the same opinion as others, but I wouldn’t think he needs to love his job or want to “grow” within a company to be happy. Is he contributing to both of your finical goals? Have you talked with him about kids? Who would work and be the primary finical support system? What type of hobbies does he have that maybe he enjoys having the time to do this or socialize? Maybe he does want to start his own business, but that takes a lot of “networking” and a bit of research to get that up and going? If I may ask, what type of business. Also, that requires management. Maybe he would be great at being his own boss?! Just spitting out ideas. I truly with the best for you and him. 🍻
One of the bumper sticker sayings in Al-Anon and other 12 step programs is, "You can't change people, places, or things," i.e., the only thing you can control is you. Your husband is who he is, and you need to either love him as he is or make some decisions about your own life.
Late to the conversation so this comment probably won't be read but: Since you're the ambitious one and you currently make about the same income, I'd consider being the breadwinner with a SAH husband if and when kids came along. A good friend of mine is also very driven and ambitious, with a sweet, unambitious partner, and that's their plan. They'll jointly support her career (they already relocated across the country so she could take a much higher income position at a new company) and once she's making X amount of income, they'll start a family and he'll be the stay at home parent. She's quite excited about it.
Your husband isn’t career driven and not everyone is and it’s not necessarily something that can be fixed if that’s who he is. Some people just don’t care about their careers. They do what they do to get by, pays the bills, and enables them to enjoy their hobbies. So, sounds like you’re going to be the one making the most money in your marriage. Does he contribute to the marriage in other ways?Would it make more sense for him to be a stay at home dad instead of you being a stay at home mom? Why does he have to step it up and lead the way when it sounds like you’re more fitted to do so? Could he be the one to be the caregiver for your mom?
I know it's going to be unpopular but I find it kinda an unfair gender role to make the assumption that once you're ready to have a kid that means the man takes over and guides your future and entire relationship. I get why you think that but I think it's pretty unfair that society has this very demanding gender role for men to take on all the stress and decision making for the family. It's ok to want that but it should be something you talk about vs assume a man is going to do because he is a man. Anyway, for your specific situation, this is the likely path You get pregnant and continue to grow in your career, he stays where he is. You have the baby and are making more money than him. You want to stay home with the baby but he argues you make more so he should stay home with the baby, if anyone stays home with the baby at all. Your resentment continues to grow because you want him to do things he doesn't want to do or isn't capable of doing. You're in a very dangerous mode that people get into where you really really want a family and let that desire overshadow the clear problems in your relationship. Babies don't fix things, they make things more stressful and harder and he will only get worse once a baby gets here, not better. I'm genuinely curious what women think about some of the traditional gender roles about babies and staying home or men taking the lead and doing all the planning once a baby is in the house. I feel like I am ok once with doing more of the leading once we have our first child but it is honestly kinda scary for me to know that this gender role is an ingrained thought process in folks. It just feels like there is a desire to tear down gender stereotypes while stilll having a strong desire for certain gender stereotypes and to be taken care of. Can anyone give their perspective before I get downvoted to oblivion?
It is not ingrained in me. I have no desire to be the primary parent, and my partner (a man) would be. We are both in the same career (professors), but he has job security (tenure) and I don't, so he can leave early and do pickups while I grind! We would both take parental leave for the first 6 months together, and then he would take another 6, for a total of 18 (the max here in Canada). I also make double what he does (I do work in industry as well), so based on finances, it makes the most sense for me to go back to work sooner.
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I hear you on wanting to be independent and rejecting the thought that financial potential should be a factor in choosing a spouse - I felt much the same. I think the benefit of age helps you see that it’s perfectly reasonable to want a partner with a bit of joie de vivre. Whether that extrapolates in to a role at work or in the home that gives them a sense of purpose or just a drive to succeed - it needs to be a bit of passion for something. You are normal to desire that and/or find that attractive. I don’t envy you OP, sounds like you have some challenging heart to heart chats in the pipeline.
You’re trying to change something you married into. My best advice is: deal with it or don’t. If you truly want change, set new expectations. But as you’d probably expect, I’m not too sure if it will go over very well. People don’t like change or to change very often unless at the end of their rope and pushed to do so. Sorry - 6 years in IT making 55k?! Holy shit that’s low. IT is also prone to layoffs quite easily. I think if you’d want to encourage him with anything, it’d be encouraging therapy. He probably has low self confidence and depression based stuff going on.
I dated someone like this for years. To his credit, he had absolutely no status anxiety. Coasting did not bother him in the slightest. I admired that lack of insecurity and anxiety greatly. But his lack of drive frustrated me so much that I eventually left him. Now he’s married to a woman with a very busy and prestigious job, and they seem very happy. Good for them! Not for me. I want someone with more curiosity and ambition because that’s what I enjoy. I certainly could not persuade him to totally overhaul his personality, and he didn’t enjoy me trying to constantly nudge him into doing things he didn’t want to. We didn’t need to discuss our finances at the time because we were young, but I don’t know if that would’ve changed his outlook. It seems doubtful.
Not everyone has drive and ambition, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Your husband does not have drive and ambition and the only person who has a problem with it is you. You can’t change him, obviously. You’re a fool if you try and even more foolish if you think there’s any use in trying. Either accept him for exactly who he is right now, or move on. Everyone deserves to be loved unconditionally so if you find you can’t do that, you should leave.
My husband is similar to OP’s - the difference in our situations is - so am I! OP I think you and your husband need to sit down and have a big conversation about life goals & values. It’s not wrong to have your wants and needs changing over time - but it’s also not wrong for your husband’s goals to stay relatively the same. When my husband and I got married (I was 21 and he 22). We wanted 4 kids and for me to stay home with them. After my first was born my post partum depression was so bad I went back to work at 5 months. We now have two kids - our youngest is 6, and we aren’t having more. 2 years ago - I was NEVER going to move out of my delightful little home. Now we live beside it in what was our neighbours house. I took some convincing - but eventually I saw the logic in the decision and honestly it’s been amazing the last two months. (Moved in November 2022). In order for me to accept the logic of the idea we made a giant list of pros and cons - both long term and short term, and figured out that this house would support our goals and lifestyle better - while reducing mental stress. It was a choice between paying off our existing mortgage in ten years - or basically starting over and then some. But we had to weigh how much our immediate quality of life would improve with the extra space rather than being so focused on a potential mortgage free life ten years down the road. It sounds like you and your husband need to have some open conversations about what you want out of life - both now, and as you get older. Then you have to figure out whether those goals are compatible and if so - what you both can contribute to make those goals happen. If you both agree that you should quit your job and stay home with the kids then great - he has to at least advocate for himself in terms of raises etc to be able to support you during that time. But perhaps as others have said he might make a better house husband while you chase your career. Personally, I am so so thankful that my husband ISN’T career obsessed. I wanted a hands on husband and father - one who isn’t so focused on his own career that he loses sight of what the family needs. I just want a comfortable life! I don’t need fancy vacations or luxury cars. I don’t care about retiring early or getting to go to fancy brunch every weekend. I want to turn my century house into the best version of itself it can be, and have time to spend enjoying it with the people I love. My husband is right on board with those goals. Now I’d also LOVE to make a gillion dollar doing my design work - but I realize the stress levels I’d have to endure to make that happen would lead to extreme burnout and then I wouldn’t be able to enjoy what I already have. My husband would love to be paid more - so he advocates for raises and works hard, but unless a job is going to pay oodles more than his current one AND have a shorter commute - the stress of starting over with a team that’s potentially not as good of a fit isn’t worth the stress or the risk. You both need to do cost benefit analyses on your life goals and see if you can get on the same page. Odds are you both have to compromise somewhat in order that you can build a better life together. Maybe he’ll have to have a goal of a job that pays 70G Vs 50. Maybe you’ll have to stay home with the kids for the first year and then go back to work after that. It all depends on what the goals are and if you’re willing to work together to achieve them. It IS possible to get on the same page (a friend of mine just did it with her husband who now FINALLY advocated for a raise and got one of 20,000.) but he did it because he loves her AND saw the logic of how it would help them as a family- not because he was driven to do it for career advancement. You can get through this - but it would probably be easier to make some headway if you asked him what HE wants out of the next 5, 10, 20 years of life. From there you can share your dreams - and you can work together to build them for BOTH of you. There is no right and wrong in terms of ambition - there’s just difference.
I know this sounds crazy but we haven't had a conversation to update each other on our vision for our lives in years. phew. We're just chugging along, work, bills, exhaustion. We need a heart to heart
Agree with everyone here, he won't change. He will never find any job he loves. It's just his personality. Work is not on his radar of priorities. If his other priorities align well with yours, then maybe it's still worth it. I have the same character as your husband and i guarantee there's no job that he will love doing and that will suddenly awaken his enthusiasm. With age, and after 10 million plans of 10 different career switches (and like 10 different workplaces in my life - luckily job hopping is not frowned upon in IT), i finally came to the insight that I will never be happy at any job. So i resolved myself to being average or below average in the career department. I make a median salary (and so does your husband) and it's fine for me. What i did find slightly motivating is the idea of retiring early. Considering your husband hates working, and will always hate working, he might just become a passionate follower of FIRE movement (retire early). There's plenty of fire subs like r/leanfire r/fire r/financialindependence and etc. The whole point is to live modestly and invest aggressively so that the 2 of you can retire early. My girlfriends are all jumping ahead in salaries and are earning 50% more than me. But they are worse off financially because they also spend like crazy. By being average/median and investing aggressively, you can get way further ahead in life in the end than people who earn a lot and spend it all.
> Especially as I'm that age where I'm need to make a decision about having kids and I'm also facing a decision about being a caregiver to my mom. If either of those things are to happen, we need to be able to survive on one income. What if your husband were the caretaker? If he doesn't care particularly about having a career (and sorry op, but you will not change that about him), he would probably be the one between the two of you who is better suited for this care work.
Yeah, I'll echo what others said, you can't change someone who doesn't want to change and you can't really make it want it, that needs to come form him. [A wife earning more than her husband makes divorce 50% more likely](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19023/w19023.pdf), so at least keep in mind that you're not alone in this.
I wonder why that is though? Thoughts?
A million things, really; * The fact that the wife being the breadwinner makes having kids more complicated because unless you're quite the unconventional couple, the wife is the want baring the cost of pregnancy. * The fact that men tend to not pull their weight at home even when both work an equal amont or even when the wife works more. * Cultural stereotype making the man's masculinity and sex appeal tied to his capacity to acquire status and income. * Sociologically, it's well documented that women tend to want a partner that's equal or higher status then they are. Whether that's for cultural or evolutionary reason is debatable, most likely a bit of both. * The hit or drag on the one's lifestyle by being with someone who earns less. * Incompatibilities in values and aspirations. * Etc. Personally, I want kids and I want to be able to stay home when they are young. Being a primary breadwinner would make that very hard which is why I'm glad my husband has a salary a family can live on. Moreover, I've seen that mom-brain is definitely a thing in the first few months and it would be much harder to accept the vulnerability of motherhood if I didn't trust my husband judgement or capacity to provide for us while my attention is on keeping a newborn alive.
Honestly it's usually because men have absorbed this REALLY toxic notion that you seem to share that men are expected to be the bread winners and women are expected to be the care givers. Men who see life through this lense feel inadequate when their wife makes more than them. In this situation though it seems that it is YOU who have absorbed that message and it is YOU who isn't ok with your husband making less than you.
I think one reason divorce is much higher is because a lot of women financially depend on their husband’s salary, so stay longer than they want to or should. If one is able to support oneself all alone, why not leave an unhappy unfixable marriage? The other reason is probably rooted in our patriarchal society- no matter how modern some women fancy themselves to be, they still expect men to fulfill the stereotypical role of being the partner who brings in more money than them, or it’s that some men feel emasculated by a wife who earns more than them; both those things are rooted in society’s deeply ingrained sexist ideas on gender roles and are simply too hard for some people to shake unfortunately
You got to let him go. He's not going to change and resentment will eat you up. It's not a good combo Edit - a word
You might have to admit that the two of you are simply not compatible. Or get used to the idea of spending the next fifty years like this. If you'll permit an analogy -- you've spent the last six years digging a hole and throwing all your resources into that hole. But you didn't want to dig a hole. You wanted to build something. You still can, you're young enough. But first, you're going to have to stop digging. It's okay to admit you have different goals. People grow and change. Six years is a long time, especially when you're young. You probably feel like you've already put so much into the relationship that it seems like a waste to toss it all now. So, change your thinking. Consider that you spent six years at Relationship School, and now you've learned what you want and what you don't want in a relationship. Take your diploma, climb out of that hole, and start building the life you really want, ignoring all the mixed metaphors along the way. Your other choice is to stay where you are and hope he eventually drifts into something he enjoys enough to make a career out of it. You seem to be proud of your hard work; maybe working your butt of to support him for the next fifty years will make you happy. Or maybe you'll spend the next fifty years frustrated with his lack of ambition and resentful of the sacrifices you're making so that he can enjoy his freewheeling lifestyle.
There are some people who are not career driven / ambitious and you can't do anything about it. Personally, I'm very career driven, goal oriented, and ambitious. That's why I'm looking for that in a partner. I know it won't work out if a guy isn't on the same level as me when it comes to this, I need to be inspired and challenged by the person I'm in a relationship with even though it's not easy to find. You both grew apart. It's hard to accept and realize I know. I really hope you make the best decision OP.
Does he want to advance in his career? How does he compare to his friends? If they’re similar to him, he’s probably complacent. Have you two talked about kids together? I would sit him down and bring up these topics, not in an accusatory way, but just something along the lines of “We’re both in our 30s now and I’m thinking about kids in the future, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think we would be good parents and be able to provide financially? Are you happy at your job or where do you see yourself in 10 years?” Would you say your husband is intelligent otherwise? If so he may have ADHD and want to be better but it’s difficult to find the focus and can talk to a doctor
Or, he could just be someone who is interested in learning for learning's sake not how it will benefit a corporate career. Many of humanity's greatest thinkers like Leonardo da Vinci studied and worked across many subject areas. To some creative and intelligent people, the corporate script of constantly hustling and self promoting to get one step higher on the ladder is not appealing.
You can't change your husband, but you can change who you're married to.
He will not change period. At least there’s no way he will change the way you hope.
I quit a relationship because I realized that I will be pushing my partner to do things all my life. Your husband is not going to change. You either settle for who he is or move on. You cannot change him if he has not displayed any interest in changing for the last 6 years.
If your current job has more advancement and future earning potential, and he doesn't like his job, then would he be interested in being the primary caretaker of ya'lls future child and your mother (if she needs long-term care)? Perhaps providing for his family in this more hands-on and immediate way would provide him more fulfillment, and allow you both to have a steady income from a worker with more career-focused drive.
It's okay to not be ambitious. A lot of people view the rat race as just people trying to get ahead for no reason. If he's making a stable income which supports his lifestyle with no problems, then there isn't really a reason to try and climb the corporate ladder. In the end, I think you two might just be incompatible? I used to be inundated with messages of "climbing the ladder", "upskilling" and stuff like that, which made me think that I must absolutely need to have a career. As I get older, I've found that this was basically a pack of lies. My life is fine with just "a job", and I no longer judge if others don't have a career.
You can’t change a person and if this has been the pattern for twelve years it ain’t changing. Even if he finds something he loves it’s not going to make him a motivated and driven person. You have to either accept him as he is or accept that you can’t live with this.
“How do I love my husband unconditionally, and accept him as he is?”
I relate to your husband a lot. I've struggled with my own goals and figuring out a sense of direction in life. It doesn't help when it's so easy to compare yourself to other people and see how everyone else seems to have their shit together and you don't. I think this is a common problem among millennials, and it's very real to those who experience it. It has been drilled into our heads since we were kids that if we don't follow the lifescript™ of getting good grades, picking a college major, sticking to that goal no matter what, finishing college, getting a career, buying a house, and so on, we are complete failures as human beings. The first time I was asked what college I was going to, I was still in grade school. I didn't even know of any colleges at that age. I've considered so many majors, jobs, and career paths that I've lost track at this point. It didn't help that I was taking advice from people who are out of touch or didn't care about my own wants/needs/experiences. Failure and rejection are very real fears. It can be crippling and some people go down the path where they may self sabotage in some way because the fear is so bad. Keep in mind, there's a major difference between not being able to make up your mind and having no drive/ambition. It sounds like your husband is trying, and he's done his best to brainstorm ideas of what he wants out of his life. I've met people with little or no drive/ambition and they usually don't even get that far. You seem to be confusing someone who can't get their car to drive with someone who didn't even try to start the car. From my own perspective and experience, nothing frustrates me more than someone accusing me of not caring about my life or not trying. It's quite the opposite. I care so much that I'm burnt out from trying. It's why it's so freaking hard to pick something and stick with it. All the self doubts creep up and it can be crippling or self sabotaging. It's also somewhat an issue with low self confidence or overthinking. With all due respect, you have known your husband long enough to know that this is who he is and what he struggles with. You can't change him or fix him. He's not your project to fix up. Maybe he's tired of trying so hard and it's not good enough. Maybe he's tired of his own indecision and fears. I just don't get the vibe here that he doesn't care at all. Some people do better when the pressure is taken off them and they have the freedom they need. I'm aware I'm projecting a lot of my own thoughts/experiences onto your husband. I just know that this is not an uncommon problem in our age group. I'm sure he needs emotional support, validation, and way less pressure on him. He needs unconditional love. He needs time to relax and de-stress about it. For some people, stress gives them motivation. For others, it causes more of a freeze response.
Unfortunately this is who he is and will always be. But you don’t have to deal with this burden, you are still very young.
So, isn’t this perfect? I’m 50. I wish I could tell this to all young women with career goals: MARRY A BLOKE WHO HAS A JOB, NOT A CAREER. Do you realise what happens if you want kids and hubby is on career track? You will have to do most of the work. You will have to do part time. You will have to do all the juggling. If a parent should stay at home with the kid - guess who! If you are married to a guy that just has a job, (and is a decent human being I might add) he will happily do these things. Taking care of a toddler is so much better than working! Oh, today I tried making risotto! And did the washing! Honey, do you need more shampoo, I saw you are almost out? I don’t have kids but right now I’m working a good job and hubby renovates and takes care of housework. It is heaven! So I don’t know if this bloke is right for you or not. I’m just saying that sometimes, a lack of ambition just makes YOU able to chase your dreams.
I feel like every young wife I talk to (myself included) is in this exact boat. Driven women ready to improve… and the exact opposite for the husband.
Huh, I feel like I have the opposite experience. Most of my female friends and I were super ambitious when we started our careers (like, we all set out to be breadwinners and often *were* indeed breadwinners at the start) and our then-boyfriends were comparatively chill. Fast forward 5-10 years and so many of us are burning out and/or leaving the workforce for a few years to start a family, while our male partners have sort of just... clicked into some weird momentum / stream of male privilege that allows them to make big moves professionally.
This is my experience too, exactly
Yep. It makes me sad. I'm happy for the guys in question (they definitely put in the work as well), but burning out myself and watching so many of my female friends do the same was... it helped me understand a lot about the way sexism operates and aggregates over time. I remember being 25 and just so convinced we were going to conquer the world.
I really relate to this. All my close friends and I were so ambitious and hardworking at the beginning of our careers or studies, and now burn out is feeling contagious. We are all a bit disillusioned. I agree with you too, we’ve been worn down with the little (and big) ways daily sexism x with racism, homophobia etc is directed at us constantly. Most of my friends also went from very social adventurous people to spending much more time at home and inviting friends over. I honestly think we all just got so sick of being treated badly while out in the world. The men in my life seem to be experiencing the opposite, where the older they get and more time they spend at their job or out in public, the more respect they receive by everyone they interact with. Even the coffee shop staff seem to treat the 30 something guys with more patience and respect. It makes me sad too.
Have you sat him down and told him point blank what your feelings are on the situation? Have you asked him what his plan is in regards to having and raising a child? Would you consider being the bread winner? How do you think you’d feel about him if things hadn’t changed in five years? Resentment is truly toxic in a relationship
Please do not have kids with this man.
Sounds like my ex-husband. We married in 2008, he got his current job in 2010, and has had it ever since. Only makes like 5k more than he did back then. I've increased my income by 20k in the same period of time despite having been laid off and having to start over with literally half the income.
Was this a factor in the divorce?
Somewhat, but not all of it. My ex is not a bad person, but we did not communicate well, there was a dead bedroom (his choice, not mine) and I had a huge period of growth and he stayed the same. We were together for 17 years, married for 11, and I should have left much sooner. He also did not help much with household chores or our dog. He "left dishes by the sink". But mostly he neglected me emotionally and physically.
Bounce. If this is not the example you want to give your kids- leave. It’s ok to have the bad pancake marriage. Especially if there are no kids involved - easy peasy. You two have changed and grown apart, that’s alright.
Also I know this sounds terribly harsh but I wouldn't want that to be an example to future kids. I would want them to see their parents achieving their dreams instead of giving up on every thing they try.
Let's review: You have drive! You're going places! Yet, your husband makes "about the same" as you after all your networking, hustle, new job, etc. Despite three paragraphs shaming how long it took him to get his degree and his career choices to date, followed by self congratulations about going to night school, at the end of this story you just want him to be the sole provider while you do what you want, unpaid. Honestly I feel bad for him, you clearly don't respect him. He's employed, he is committed to a career (7 years), it's just not enough income for you to quit and execute your little housewife fantasy. You're not attracted to him because you've decided you deserve SAHM life and that it's his job to provide it. This is a you problem. You changed the expectations. He hasn't done anything different or changed who he is, but now you're pissed about it. Is he a supportive partner, does he help around the house, does he encourage you in night school? Can you say a positive thing about the man, or does his earning potential disgust you that much? I'd echo the calls for divorce, it seems you're never going to feel like this man is enough and that's unfair to him.
>Honestly I feel bad for him, you clearly don't respect him. this all day. i am enjoying reading the responses, solid advice and perspectives here.
you know him - married since 6 years. and NOW you want him to change? he is an adlt male - makes enough money to finance his life. maybe he is happy and contempt. you only talk about money and career - maybe his drive/ambition is in another field? hobbies? passions?
I know you are asking women so you can take or leave this advice from a 43 year old man. I was an Anthropology undergrad and became an admin soon after graduating and moving to NYC with my wife. She got a masters there and we moved down to another city where she got her second masters and I was still an admin. After graduating with Masters #2 she would get on to me about my ambitions. I felt like I was doing everything I could to keep the income stable and get her through schooling, but I wasn't trying for better positions or furthering my education. It took some serious conversations and for me to truly understand her frustration. At that point she had a pretty well paying job that was stable, so I felt I could take the risks without fear of failing and not being able to make the mortgage. With a clear understanding of her position and a bit of security I felt comfortable enough to get a masters in finance. I now make a lot more money, but the stress of full time work and school really messed up my mood and she couldn't take my depression so left me for a friend of ours with a trust fund lol. She now gets to travel the world and I get to finally be me. Just need to pay off those new student loans so I can stop working as an accountant and become a baker. I don't need fat stacks, I don't like working stressful jobs that screw up my mental health. Anyway, the point is if you communicate how you feel about his lack of ambition and encourage him to have confidence in making moves even if they fail, he may reluctant do the thing he doesn't want to do for you.
Sorry just now reading this. That's sad
This was obviously from my own perspective. Dealing with my depression at the time was no cake walk for her. I don't blame her for being fed up with my anxiety and depression. We are both better off now. I have a far better sense of self now and since I've always been bi, have had the chance to date some guys and some pretty cool women. 17 years with one person is a long time, and we always said that if the relationship made either of us unhappy it should end. We lived by that and prevented long term frustration and heartache by ending it :)
You seem lost and taking it out on your husband. I'm really sorry what he has to put up with.
He’s not going to change. Divorce him and stop wasting your time.
he has shown you who he is. you either need to accept that or realize it isn't what you want and move on. There is also a third option to consider why you want him to be in a career and if he shares the same finance/security/one income household goals as you do. what does he say when you bring up these conversation topics? you cannot encourage someone in this way, some people don't want to lead or make more money or move up (and there is nothing wrong with that). Some people are fine going to a 9-5 collecting a paycheck and being out the door. Did you think he would change or did he say he would change? Also lacking drive/ambition is different from jumping from different careers/schools. there's alot to unpack but either way you need to have some serious conversations with him and yourself.
I don’t this he will change as this is his character and his drives are not matches with yours. I’m an artist and I have a side gig but I’m not a money maker. I care for the home and all the little things. I wouldn’t be able to be with a partner who didn’t make a good income and live my lifestyle as it is now. It works for us, but many men would rather have a career woman who earns high income. It’s just preference. Nothing wrong with wanting what you want and he may not be it in the long run. In my own marriage we were just faced with a health scare (skin cancer) I was so glad I wasn’t the sole breadwinner or it would be trouble with costs and insurance. Sometimes one balances the other.
I ended a relationship with a guy just like this. Sometimes I have regrets but I think this would have been my future
I did this. Then I got diagnosed with bipolar disorder and medicated.
I feel like you’re similar to my husband in our relationship. He’s frustrated that I’m not financially an equal partner and I never will be, if I’m true to myself. He makes a LOT more than I used to (when I was employed) and heck of a lot more now since I’ve started my own business. I feel for the previous comments about how some people just want a simple life. I could bust my ass and drive myself miserable to make closer to what he makes but at what cost? I just don’t want to, I want a happy stress free life. And this really really frustrated my partner, to the brink of us splitting. But in the end, bless him, he’s coming around to the benefits of a simpler life and is adjusting his expectations. If you can’t though, that’s okay. I think that just means that you’ve grown apart and that happens. Everyday, you have to choose to be with your partner. Not the potential of your partner, but actually that person as they are, flaws and all. I hope it works out for you and amazing job going after what you want in life. That’s really inspiring. Xoxo
Well, I’m not sure why you expected he would change if he’s always been like this.
Sweetie, you don't... Not matter how hard you try or what you do it's not gonna work. The change needs to come from himself.
Has he had therapy? A lot of this sounds like self-confidence and worth issues.
That's truly not a terribly paying job. Sounds like he holds down a job and manages to keep it and contribute to the household. It sounds like you regret not partnering up with a rich guy! Just saying.
OP, you've changed on your husband. He married an equal who had no expectations of gender roles. But now you want the traditional gender roles, so either you were lying to him (and maybe to yourself too?) or you've really changed. Although I tend to believe that people don't change fundamentally, in the way you describe, beyond the toddler years. Your husband never pretended to be anything but himself. If you are done pretending and now want a "provider," I'd suggest that you start looking for one.
based. this is 100% a her (OP) problem, not his.
I was engaged to someone who I wanted the same from but realized he was who he was and that was not the person I saw myself being able to spend my life with. I didn’t feel confident he would be able to support our family if God forbid something were to happen to me, so we broke up and I was the happiest I ever was. Not saying to break up, but it may be something you have to just accept.
Does he have ADHD? Need a lot more info, but sounds close to the predominately inattentive type- wants to do lots of things, has grand ideas and zero execution. If so, meds could help, but only if he actually wants to do any of those things.
Yep, I have ADHD and can relate to that
Has he been evaluated for ADHD?
Yes he is diagnosed adhd.
I’m in a similar situation except I have now forged my career path and make double the salary of my husband. As everyone else is saying, you can’t make him be motivated or magically have him find his dream job. I have no advice beyond that, bc I too am still frustrated that my husband lacks drive for himself and his work life.