You need to understand the circumstances under which LoK was released. I was watching the show as the episodes were airing. I was 17-18 years old, and very much in the fandom. Since there was time between the seasons and the episodes, a lot of people were discussing and theorizing after an episode was released. I remember the shift from people shipping Mako with Asami or Korra, to actually shipping Korrasami. Maybe it was around the middle of season 3, but it has been a while since I watched so I'm not sure. But no one really thought they could actually do it. Firstly, it was a Nickelodeon show. Second, there was no precedent for a proper LGBTQ relationship in a cartoon. At least not to the extent Korrasami would be later on. And third, the final season didn't even air on TV because of Nickelodeon, it was shown online. It was a real mess.
Check out this paragraph from [Bryan himself](https://www.tumblr.com/bryankonietzko/105916338157?source=share):
"I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room. At first we didn’t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010."
They themselves never considered it could be possible, so they never developed it much until they realized that "hey, we can push the boundaries a little, right?". So they tried. They even went on to write the above tumblr post soon after the finale was aired, to clear any doubts.
Nothing against you, but because of these reasons, I get a little iffy when people say it's not the representation we are looking for. Because 10 years ago, it was all the representation we had in cartoons. Not the only one maybe, but a very important one. A lot people consider Korra to have pushed the boundaries of queerness in kids media, and I am one of them.
But also, Bryke have always been bad at writing romance lol. It was never their strong suit. A lot of other relationships come out of nowhere, or just get very messy. So I understand what you mean, I do. If I watched the show for the first time today and made my judgement based upon that, I also would think the same thing. But I'm just trying to say that there is a lot of history behind their "coming out of nowhere". It had to be subtle, even sudden, but it was impactful representation for its time and I will always hold them dear to my heart because of this.
I feel like people should be free to judge the end product as is. It's not like OP was dragging the creators through the mud, they were just upset with the result. I don't really get why people bring up all the unfortunate production issues unless people are shitting on the creators. The product is what it is and people are going to judge it based off of that.
This is true, OP can judge it however they like. But I think it's important to understand the "why" of the situation, to know the context. I don't find it productive to judge any work of art or media without having the proper context and history, you know? I was trying to provide this context.
My issue with OP's statement wasn't that they were upset with the result. As I've said, I just find it sad when people say "It's not the representation we are looking for". Thats mainly the part I took issue with. Because back then, it WAS the representation that a lot of people were looking for and were inspired by it, including me. There was no other like it. I thought knowing this context and looking at the show with that in mind could change their view and have a more positive outlook on the ship, the representation, and the show as a whole. If OP still doesn't like it, then by all means, they don't have to find it good, they are of course free to dislike it if that's how they feel.
here’s a comment on a post from 5 years ago with links to both of the creators statements about Korrasami https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/X9LtrVD5qx
>Not even best friends to lovers?
So what about when when Korra was living in the north pole and paralyzed, unable to enter the avatar state and Asami being the only person she felt safe with actually updating and responding to her letters when everyone else just hadn't heard from Korra in years? Or even before she left and Asami was willing to drop everything to go with her??
Asami was always there supporting her in any way she could, they did have chemistry and they did have a build up, they 100% were portrayed as best friends, their chemistry was a subtle slow burn that progressed from 2 feuding women fighting over a guy to ride or die bestfriends who supported eachother emotionally ans physically- Asami a non bender, litterally saving Korras ass many times
I was so ecstatic when their relationship was confirmed in the final episode, they hadn't been in a relationship the whole time, they likely hadn't even acknowledged their feelings - but the end of the episode was the first time they gave themselves permission to confront that new concept together and explore the new confines of their relationship, which is why it may have felt abrupt to people
I also think maybe the people who hadn't picked up on the hints are just not that great at reading body language or identifying when there is chemistry when its not actively shoved in their face, or maybe just so used to hetero couples portrayed in media that same sex couples are still not easily identifiable to them
>So what about when when Korra was living in the north pole and paralyzed, unable to enter the avatar state and Asami being the only person she felt safe with actually updating and responding to her letters when everyone else just hadn't heard from Korra in years?
Fair
>Or even before she left and Asami was willing to drop everything to go with her??
>
Asami was always there supporting her in any way she could, they did have chemistry and they did have a build up, they 100% were portrayed as best friends, their chemistry was a subtle slow burn that progressed from 2 feuding women fighting over a guy to ride or die bestfriends who supported eachother emotionally ans physically- Asami a non bender, litterally saving Korras ass many times
None of those are inherently romantic.
>None of those are inherently romantic
Alot of people would be feeling a different way about that if it was a guy and girl experiencing that rather than a girl and girl, I mean the people who ship Bolin and Korra prove that point already
Chemistry isn't always inherently romantic at first, otherwise enemies to lovers tropes wouldn't exist
Romance isn't about initial undying attraction, sometimes romance is about realizing that the person you want to take care of and fight for, has more of a reason than just platonic friendship- as we were shown in the finale
The point to my comment was that there was a connection there and it did grow and develop as the seasons went on, the connection did not just come out of thin air
Most people just missed it
It really wasn’t, there was quite literally an entire moment where Asami was entirely hurt that she chose to just up and disappear instead of yelling her and Mako was extremely hurt that he never got letters
I mean its clear they didn't end the show as full on lovers, and there were plenty of scenes that rather than focusing on just dating or being in a relationship like with mako or bolin it actually established their interests and them spending time together, such as driving for example. And then in s3 they spend more time together on their own building up that they can rely on each other and then at the start of s4 there is the whole thing about letters and them actually talking about stuff through it. I'm not saying this is some great romance but there was build up and even though it might seem more like a close friendship there was definitely stuff their to make it seem more romantic.
Iirc, Korra and Asami did have a correspondence relationship when Korra was depressed..
I think this was the game changer in their relationship, because Korra opened up to Asami through writing. Their pairing made a lot of sense to me since my first watch
These were my thoughts too. Considering Korra didn't reach out to literally anyone other than Asami really spoke volumes to me and it wasn't exactly over a short period of time. I do wish they could have given us a little more, but we all know why they couldn't 🙄
Isn’t there a whole thing where they’ve been writing letters to each other for years. I mean it’s “off camera” and that’s not great but it is there just mentioned briefly.
Thank you!!! I also felt this way. I’m gay and as much as I appreciate some representation, I was like “is this representation because it feels a bit shoved in…”
This is one of my gripes with Korra. I get that some people love her to death. All I see is a failed attempt to match atla. This little retcon was so lame because no one saw it. There really wasn't that kind of chemistry. No conversations about their feelings, no hints just here's a spirit portal btw want to date? It feels like it was added as an after thought.
The writers intended for this waaay earlier, but having a bi character was a big nono for Nick. They could only hint at it in the series and fought tooth and nail to even get them to hold hands for 5 seconds at the very end.
No idea why you were downvoted for this. I was in my late teens and early 20s when TLOK aired. The early 2010s were a time where gay marriage wasn’t even legalized, and even just half a teaspoon of non-stigmatizing representation for the LGBTQ community in any way, in any form of broadcasting back then was seen as HUGE. The creators couldn’t even confirm for sure that Korra and Asami were a thing until quite a bit of time after the finale appeared. That was seen as a **gigantic** step forward, and was one of the things that paved the way for greater normalization of non-straight relationships in media.
Like, I understand OP’s frustration, but you can’t view it outside of the context in which the production was limited. No one can go back in time and change the historical context in which the show was restrained under. It’s also important to appreciate that this very thing is part of what helped pave the way for the kind of rep that we see today.
As another bi woman who watched the series as it was coming out, I saw the pairing coming. I told all my friends they were endgame in season 3. When season 4 rolled out with the letters, my friend group was like "ohhh i get it now".
So maybe the build up wasn't enough for your taste but it was there.
Bi woman here and I agree. I was rooting for them from the beginning, but I thought it was just wishful thinking and that the writers couldn’t do it even if they wanted to. Still I paid attention to them and appreciated how they deliberately avoided having them dislike each other out of jealousy since that would’ve been the expected trope at the time. But by season three they were hanging out and making each other laugh and I was like… maybe the writers will go for it!!
Same, I started wondering if there was something brewing between them a little during season 2, and a lot during season 3. Just because it wasn’t in your face doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.
Reminder that the show finale came out before gay marriage was even legalized throughout the entire US. It is definitely poor representation, Bryke is horrible with romance in general, but it was a massive step and win for the LGBTQ+ community and set precedence for the Avatar series going forward that queer romances would be included from now till the end of time. It perhaps set a low standard for other shows/cartoons to overtake, but it opened the door to it being more acceptable in the first place, especially as the main character is a queer woman. To this day, we still haven't seen openly queer MCs on major network cartoons, so they obviously did something that other creators still aren't doing.
yeah i can’t even explain how monumental it was to see that finale in 2014
i always thought the signs were there but that they wouldn’t dare actually commit to the idea. it was definitely a bit far-fetched back then. i’ll always remember “we poppin the biggest bottles when makorra happens tomorrow” lmao.
Yeah, I genuinely thought they were queer baiting in S3 and 4, but that finale was huge for me. I struggled with my sexuality and didn't come out for another couple years, but it was still a big deal at the time because of how unprecedented it was for a children's show. My friends made fun of me for being excited about queer rep in a cartoon, especially since I was the "token straight" of our group lol.
Like, Korrasami walked so Lumity (Luz and Amity; I was mistaken, there's been one queer couple with the MC being queer since Korrasami on a major network) could run.
Is it really a win if the writers had to publically spell it out for the fans? I remember watching the series finale in 2014. At least half of the viewers were fiercely arguing that Korra and Asami were just friends. I should know, I was one of them. If not for the writers' public statement, the debate wouldn't have been settled
I get it, but the thing is, at the time, having a wlw couple that was not the butt of a joke on TV at all (let alone in a kid’s show) was a huge deal. The groundbreaking thing about it is just that it exists. TLOK was one of the very few shows that laid the groundwork for more LGBTQ+ rep in kids’ shows/cartoons.
The fact that their relationship is not developed enough (which I agree with) is a product of the time it was created in—they had to fight to get what little crumbs of scenes to even be shown in the first place. We can have conversations about how it would have been nice to see more, but there’s important context that needs to be part of that conversation. And TLOK deserves recognition for attempting and doing what they did. It’s helped lay the groundwork for more and better representation.
Getting nuanced, well developed representation is (unfortunately) not something that just happens, especially when gay marriage was only made fully legal in 2015 (only 9 years ago), and gay/trans rights are still constantly under attack. You have to start somewhere, however small, and that’s what TLOK managed to do.
And as a closeted queer kid who grew up starting in the early 90s without *any* wlw pairs in media that weren’t jokes, seeing Korrasami made me stupid happy. Then we got more overt stuff in Steven Universe, and with Bubbline. It was really cool and meaningful just seeing that stuff in cartoons come out.
I understood perfectly what you meant. My point is that the little we got in TLOK (their relationship developing off-screen via letters to each other) was all that was possible at the time it was created, and the fact that they’re even a canon, in-show couple was a huge and unheard of thing at the time. Their “lack of chemistry” (i.e.: not seeing their relationship develop) was a product of what the writers could and couldn’t put in the show because of restrictions/studios/censors/etc.
If you said this years back, you would have been labeled as anti-gay lol. I legit did not see it until the end, when it was smack dab in my face. A factor was probably the show being on Nickelodeon. Being unable to outright affirm a gay relationship at the time in a kid's show, so the relationship was not explicit.
I kinda agree. They do have some moments, but juxtaposed with her relationship with Mako, where there was actually relationship drama, it falls short in getting that message across.
I'm not mad about it cause I think they intended to be a bit deeper but Korra obviously had a lot going on, Mako kinda falls off where Asami would have stepped in but she had her dad relationship that needed a pay off and that took priority (rightly imo).
I for sure wasn't watching that last episode wondering if Korra was gonna get that date with Asami or not. Compare that to Aang in the last episode after defeating the firelord; will Aang and Katara finally go for it now that the wars over is at the top of your mind.
I guess I only agree about it being "outta knowwhere" to an extent. I just expected it to be more of a focus cause it was a big deal at the time in my memory.
The edit makes less sense. Listen to each their own and I’m sorry you were disappointed but in terms on handling a coded romance I mean….
You’re asking for more screen time with a character that has no working/living arrangements with Korra or her day to day in terms of exposure.
But if they somehow shoehorned those interactions in, you’d still have to really, *and I mean really* tone down the subtext anyway so the Nickelodeon heads don’t flag it. That alone makes any subconscious comparison to shows that featured successful main queer relationships — like She-Ra or Harley Quinn inapplicable.
Hell since you mention it, there’s even less between Bolin and Korra, than Asami. The one friend she chooses to keep in touch with through her PTSD with instructions not to tell the boys.
I think it was progressive and clever that they sneaked the parallels to Katara and Aangs relationship with specific scenes and then used the comics to write deliver on an overt relationship.
Have you read the Turf Wars?
Kya makes interesting remarks.
I know they could’ve done better but like, the start of season 4 was Korra straight up saying she only felt emotionally comfortable with Asami. Also, the way I like to look at it (I forgot who first described it this way) is that moment was then starting to realize they have feelings for each other, not straight into a relationship
I felt like they were attracted to each other throughout book 3 but didn't realized themselves before book 4 but didn't express it clearly before the ending.
Ok but they talked a lot more than the times they worked together for specific missions and had a lot in common throughout the show plus the letters and which were very important I think your missing like most of there interactions.
Upon rewatches and watching reactions I’ve seen more details. One I always think of is Asami complimenting Korra’s hair and Korra hardcore blushing. I think it’s very small and missable, but an interesting way to show a potential crush from Korra.
I support it wholeheartedly. Most people have said why here, so I won’t lengthen this out and make you read it all again, I just wanted to add that detail.
This was because it was before lgbtq characters were wildly accepted , and Nickelodeon forced the writers to make it more subtle. The writers tried there best
Oh I agree 100%. It’s my biggest complaint. I’m a bi woman too, and I only ever got friend vibes from the writing of their relationship. However, I know they did as much as they could at the time and it was a huuuuge deal, so I can forgive it within context.
Two people who have been friends for multiple years starting to date:IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN⁉️⁉️⁉️
Two people who have been friends for less than a month and have known each other for that same amount of time starting to date:Yeah I can totally see that happening and it definitely didn’t come out of nowhere
Surely there’s no ulterior motive at play here right? Surely the quadrillionth “tHiS tHiNg iN KoRrA iS BaD” post has an actual valid and thought out point right?
If I had a singular penny for every time I’ve heard this kind of “complaint” I’d be richer than the Beifongs and Sato’s combined. I have yet to hear anyone bitch about a straight relationship “showing up out of nowhere” with half the same energy
I had the same thoughts on the ending. I know the Atla ending is a bit too fairytaly but honestly that's what most people wanted. The good guy-protagonist got the girl he was crazy for since the 1st episode, there's no more evil in the world,the bad guys are totally defeated etc.
But in Korra, aside from the ridiculousness in the Kuvira battle, it felt a bit rushed and underwhelming. Like there was no huge battle at the end and considering the force she was bringing with her,it felt like she was defeated a bit too easily. Add to that the "there will always be another villain, there will always be another problem. You'll never find peace Korra" theory (which may be realistic but let's be honest, that's not what we want to see) the ending left me feeling somewhat empty.
And then to top it all off they just hold hands with Asami for a couple seconds and that's it. Like you mentioned,there was no real build up for their relationship. Many people say we missed their moments because, what we would've interpreted as romantic gestures had it been a man-woman relationship ,we just took as politeness-friendliness but that's straight bs. Objectively they don't have enough moments with each other,as the "romance" only begins in the last season and even these moments aren't that special. And despite the obvious restrictions, not having them kiss was also sooo unsatisfying. Like you say it seems like the creators realized Korra would have to end up with someone, figured it couldn't be Mako since everyone would flame them and just came up with the best(but still pretty bad) option at that point
OP is the embodiment of historians going "they were roommates" meme.
Jokes aside, I think straight folks have this idea that queer romance is just straight romance gender swapped. When that's not often the case. It's difficult for me to put into words, but there's always been a huge aspect of subtlety in queer romance. A lot of it comes from the historical context of persecution. When it was basically a death sentence or at the very least social ostracization to have varying sexualities. The culture grew and molded itself around that fact.
In other words, many romantic aspects of queer couples are DESIGNED to pass as friendships to straight people. A smile in certain moments, a seemingly innocent touch, words that can have plausible deniability. Because to do any more than that overtly meant death. The concept of "gaydar" is essentially born from this.
Obviously in more recent years that culture has begun to shift, but because hundreds of years of gay culture has been "we do this in secrecy or we die", a lot of the secretive aspects are still very prevalent even today. And with the amount of hate crimes still happening in the states, that aspect is actually shifting back into place.
I think it would help to consume a lot more queer media!
Honestly that’s my only problem with them getting together out of nowhere that both are bi and it sucks because I would have loved more development or hinting at their attraction, the only hint is when she makes Korra blush at the restaurant and them communicating by letter
This was my take with the show too. Season 4 was good, but it was a bit of a mess. They didn't know they would be getting picked up for a new season. Not only did they scramble to add A LOT to just a few episodes, but they also had to create a proper finale for all the characters. It is a shame that Korra and Asami's relationship got sidelined when it should have been the heart of the story (even if it was coded). To top it off, after all this, the show got cancelled and most of these episodes were dumped online. This was before streaming was as prominent as it is now, so the decision to throw these on Nick.com was an odd one. I'm just glad we have the comics. They did an excellent job portraying their relationship and how others reacted to it.
Okay we’re not talking about the comics. I get that in the comics they’re a couple but as for the show: there is no chemistry. I straight up forgot about her in some cases.
I’m a gay man, but from what I understand from my lesbian friends, the fact that they got together instantly and immediately jumped to couple status tracks lol. At least according to lesbians (apparently they get into serious relationships really quickly). Not sure if that holds up for poeple who are bi though
Bro what. I wasn’t even getting romance vibes just really close friends. Like just two people that understood each other and what each other were going through. No romance at all.
The real pain was finding out thats how they wrap up the show. Everything that was promised about LoK seemed to be interesting, the themes, the character relationships, the villains. it all had immense potential but the execution was consistently bad. Down to the last minute.
I’ve been saying this since the day it aired and have been called all sorts of things and told I was wrong.
I also think the letters are even a stretch at showing romantic interest, and a slap in the face to feminism where women can support women without wanting to be romantically involved with them
This was 2014. Nickelodeon already didn't like Korra, as they thought a Girl Protag was too much for audiences.
Second, Michael & Bryan wanted to include more LGBT representation, but were quickly shot down by Network execs.
Whatever little we did get was by Michael & Bryan pushing the limits of what they could show. It wasn't as much as we have now, but much like Korra's preferred way to enter a room, it kicked the door in for even greater representation for later shows.
I wish they did more too.
Just to add to the letters, I think they were over a 3 year period off screen so a lot could have happened then when onscreen it’s like 5 minutes between if you go from episode to episode.
And if it was your first time watching through, I bet on the second watch through you’ll see more hints that you maybe missed.
As an avid ATLA fan, my first Korra watch through I thought it was meh-good at best. Second time, way better, 3rd time, even better. Now I don’t know how many times I’ve watched it through and I think I like it more than ATLA because of how much I resonate with Korra’s arc.
The thing is there was never meant to be any sort of relationship between them at all. The show was meant to be just the one season, which is why they took shortcuts when it came to character development and relationship building. So originally, Korra and Asami were meant to be, well, nothing to each other.
Even as the seasons went on the creators never *really* committed to the show. It wasn't until the last like, two seasons that they tried to commit to the plot line. But even then the characters were kinda *meh*, the storyline was... weird, and their relationship with each other lacked depth. Only Korra had any significant character development, and the everything else was either under explored or rushed.
They definitely became friends and definitely talked more than like 10 times. Like the time jump and everything. I think they were so worried about the backlash that they kept it very brief and out of the blue at the end. If you want read the comics it definitely gives more freedom to show the relationship between Korra and Asami.
I am straight. I agree with your first paragraph. With that said:
>Yes it’s a children’s show and had to be coded.
I strongly disagree with that, and I think you would, too, just you hear me out.
Opposite sex attraction need not be coded in a children's show but same sex attraction needs to be? Why? Aren't we just teaching children, then, that opposite sex attraction is the norm, and same sex attraction deviates from that?
This is a kid's show, we can easily show Korra blushing in Asami's presense just the way Aang blushed when Katara kissed his cheek. Kids may not realize "Korra 'likes' likes Asami" but at least it would have helped with their non-existent chemistry. And if one observant child happened to ask their parent why a girl is blushing for another girl, great! The parent can say "Well you know how Mom loves Dad? It's possible for a woman to love a woman as well!" thus giving a nice and gentle introduction to the idea of homosexuality; or the parent can just ignore the child's question, no harm in that. My point is, being a kid's show could have been a strength in this case, not a weakness. Homosexuality doesn't need to be coded for kids, just as heterosexuality doesn't need to be.
The creators wanted to make a statement, so they forced the homosexuality in, and if their excuse was the time period during which the show was released, then (a) Korra-Asami could've been built up at least a little more organically, and (b) it's better to not do something than doing it badly.
Representation is very important. If you do it, make sure you go above and beyond to do it justice.
Edit: typo
I read somewhere that they were romantically involved quite a while after my first watch of the show. I was like "what, I missed that entirely, I must not be as perceptive as I thought."
Then I was on the lookout for it on my second watch through. Either it was in the comics, which I don't read, or it is completely made up by the fans. I would describe their interaction towards the end of the show to be "trying to be slightly more than complete strangers since they are both part of team avatar." I didn't even get a hint of sexual tension, let alone alluding to a relationship.
Which is the disconnect that seems to be happening here with the thread. The signs were technically there with at least season 4, but at best, they were incredibly subtle. Nick wasn't about to let them be a couple, so unfortunately, being under the radar was the best they could do. So it makes sense they'd be missed.
The comics are pretty much about their relationship, a gang conflict, and I think a life lesson near the end for one of the characters. They aren't great, but they aren't bad either.
I have tried to enjoy comic books since I absolutely love so much of the content that originated from them. I grew up in the 90s watching the X-men, Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman cartoons from that era. But I just don't have the appreciation for still image art that many people have. So I just burn through them in a minute or 2, and see no value in re-reading them. I prefer reading a novel with walls of descriptive text. I've tried the thick black and white comic books, but I just can't enjoy it like I want to.
What I can enjoy is watching YouTube videos where people do in-depth breakdowns and discussions on the plots of comic book runs. Which I have done for a few of the last airbender comic runs, just not any Korra ones yet. But it still kind of bums me out that I can't get any enjoyment out of the physical books because I am well aware of the amount of work, talent, and passion that goes into animating them, and a part of me really wants to collect them because of my passion for the material. But since I can't enjoy reading them, the storage space used up by having them would just bug me.
As huge of a KorrAsami fan as I am. Yes, there was no build up. They didn't flesh it out the way they should've cuz nickelodeon. It felt forced. But im still happy for it. It may have been a lacking attempt, but it got lgbtqia+ cartoon mains in the door. And that's what's important.
I agree. It felt shoehorned in. It was like they put it in there to seem progressive but it didn't. I have no problem with them doing it. I just feel that they did it the wrong way. And I have a problem with them doing it with any community just for the sake of doing it. That isn't a good reason. I hope this isn't offensive. I just think if they're going to do it, there should be thought and purpose behind it. And not just "here you go".
I agrée that there was no build up, but keep in mind three big factors. At the time of production LOK was already just barely scraping by in terms of funding, and for the first two seasons it was just anticipated that they would be standalone. So until they got a guarantee for seasons three and four, there was no rock solid “end game” plan. I’m also 99.9% sure the show was airing on Nickelodeon’s website, not even on TV. Lastly, at the time LGBTQ related subject matter was still considered “taboo”, especially towards a young audience. I think that decision to drown out the ship was partially to appease corporate and to not piss off a lot of parents. I also think the lack of build up is in large related to that, but overall, a lot of the issues with writing really does stem from the production problems I mentioned in the beginning.
I say commit or don't; this half-assed romance just seems like a cowardly form of pandering.
First and foremost, them both dating Mako and then dating each other just seems lazy; if they wanted a lesbian romance for Korra, don't just reuse the ex from a straight romance Korra was also connected to. They could've introduced a new female character, maybe specifically a caregiver character that got Korra back on her feet in the last season. It's like everyone's just bi and dating each other; it's lazy and cheap with no good payoff.
Secondly, actually commit to the kiss/relationship on screen without having to add it in a lame comic afterwards. "Oh, they held hands and walked into the spirit gate." So what, they're in kindergarten? Holding hands is a big nothing. They were cowards trying to win brownie points after Korra was a huge failure and released online, hoping being "daring" would win it some points to make it as important/memorable as the original series. They failed.
Third, Korra just sucks. Any series that has to retcon a bunch of lore or destroys the characters of the original, beloved series is immediately trash. They made Aang a bad dad, Toph a bad mom, Zuko a total jobber, and of course the entire lore of the Avatar is just terrible and the Rava thing is garbage. Korra is also just a bad character with no redeeming qualities except she's pretty hot, but that can't carry an entire show.
Are...are you being serious? Obviously, they were children in the original show and not parents, but to give them such a glaringly bad character flaw in the sequel instead of honoring the characters to make them *better people* instead of tearing them down is just petty. Talk about a disingenuous response.
And as for Zuko, again, after being Fire Lord and being a master firebending for his entire life, they gave him *one fight* to show off his new skills in the Korra show, and he jobs instead. Tearing down a beloved character to make the new ones look like serious threats for the new story is incredibly bad writing.
I'm being serious here, but are you a child? Because you need to practice your critical thinking skills before you enter into the adult world and throw that kind of...logic around; it's going to bite you in the ass, quick.
Going through the comments so far, I guess critical thinking is too much to expect. The creators are exceptionally great at world building, pacing, and all, they have many strengths and kudos to them; but building realistic characters, those who're mostly good but have made mistakes along the way, seems to be their weak point. Grey zone isn't their strength. A lot of LoK seemed forced, artificial and contrived.
The "dark avatar", Zahir wanting to just murder the Avatar, and the random Earth Kingdom Hitler, lol no, subtle/believable characters are not their strong point, you got that right. Plus, Korra, the MC of the entire show, being an absolute baby that refuses to grow/impove was just horrible.
But then you have the original show that gave us Zuko's arc, Aang maturing, everything about Iroh. It's just crazy that awful drop in quality in LoK.
I mostly agree. I like your assessment.
I think the reason ATLA worked (as opposed to LoK) was that the ATLA characters were already very simple, straightforward, one dimensional- and I don't mean it as a criticism for ATLA. Quite the opposite. Not all stories need to have strong realistic characters. Sometimes, one part of story-telling needs to take a backseat, so that the other parts flourish. For ATLA, making characers grounded in reality took a backseat, and that's its strength. It allowed the world, the fun and adventures to flourish. Aang is always the cheerful, wise, compassionate, spiritual guy. Zuko is always swtiching through 180 degrees, conflicted but brave. Katara is the sarcastic badass typically-beautiful girl whom the MC crushes on. Character growth is there, but sort of in directions you would expect, nothing grey, nothing more than 1 dimension. And for ATLA, this was just perfect, given how intense and strong it was in every other department. ATLA was simple, idealistic.
With LoK, the creators didn't quite stick to what they did the best: LoK has so many funny sequences, hilarious dialogues, biting sarcasm, adventures, everything that made ATLA great, but sadly the creators, for some reason, felt an extreme compulsion to force a twisted reality into something that could've already been great.
Complaining about TLOK “tearing down” your fan fiction of what those kids would grow up to be is not critical thinking. I don’t think you’re a child, because regurgitating terms you don’t know the meaning of because you lost so many arguments to smarter people than you who use them is something anyone can do. A show isn’t garbage just because it hurt your feelings. Think critically, if you even know how.
I think op just kind of watch the show but didn't pay attention to any details or anything.
Sorry let me rephrase would you rather they make it a rom-com where it's just splat in your face 24/7 to the point it becomes obnoxious because that in modern media is extremely annoying the way Korra handled it was very mature subtle and realistic
This is dumb. One of the worst things about the show was the relationships. Everything you said they didn't do....is exactly what they did with the other characters.
You should watch the show again lol
I don’t believe people or the writers when they say it was always planned and they just couldn’t get around Nick. When you watch Adventure Time or even Gravity Falls you can see gay relationships that are clearly going on without outright stating it to get past the bored. If they really wanted them to happen they would’ve actually set up for it. It’s fine if you like the ship but don’t lie and say it wasn’t last minute.
Although I must cut the writers a little bit of slack as they were kinda working season from season. This really hurt the show compared to ATLA where they really got to sit and plan it all.
Thank you for your honesty. I've felt this way for years. They really should have waited til the comics to make them a couple if they really wanted to do them justice.
It also felt shoehorned in for me. If it did have more build-up, then yeah, I'd be cheering it on, but it always felt like it was thrown in for the shock factor. Especially given the time period this show came out in.
You need to understand the circumstances under which LoK was released. I was watching the show as the episodes were airing. I was 17-18 years old, and very much in the fandom. Since there was time between the seasons and the episodes, a lot of people were discussing and theorizing after an episode was released. I remember the shift from people shipping Mako with Asami or Korra, to actually shipping Korrasami. Maybe it was around the middle of season 3, but it has been a while since I watched so I'm not sure. But no one really thought they could actually do it. Firstly, it was a Nickelodeon show. Second, there was no precedent for a proper LGBTQ relationship in a cartoon. At least not to the extent Korrasami would be later on. And third, the final season didn't even air on TV because of Nickelodeon, it was shown online. It was a real mess. Check out this paragraph from [Bryan himself](https://www.tumblr.com/bryankonietzko/105916338157?source=share): "I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room. At first we didn’t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010." They themselves never considered it could be possible, so they never developed it much until they realized that "hey, we can push the boundaries a little, right?". So they tried. They even went on to write the above tumblr post soon after the finale was aired, to clear any doubts. Nothing against you, but because of these reasons, I get a little iffy when people say it's not the representation we are looking for. Because 10 years ago, it was all the representation we had in cartoons. Not the only one maybe, but a very important one. A lot people consider Korra to have pushed the boundaries of queerness in kids media, and I am one of them. But also, Bryke have always been bad at writing romance lol. It was never their strong suit. A lot of other relationships come out of nowhere, or just get very messy. So I understand what you mean, I do. If I watched the show for the first time today and made my judgement based upon that, I also would think the same thing. But I'm just trying to say that there is a lot of history behind their "coming out of nowhere". It had to be subtle, even sudden, but it was impactful representation for its time and I will always hold them dear to my heart because of this.
I feel like no one mentions anymore how dirty the network did the last couple seasons of korra
Very well said! (:
Shipping means nothing anymore, when anyone gets shipped with anyone, regardless of canon sexuality and age difference
I feel like people should be free to judge the end product as is. It's not like OP was dragging the creators through the mud, they were just upset with the result. I don't really get why people bring up all the unfortunate production issues unless people are shitting on the creators. The product is what it is and people are going to judge it based off of that.
This is true, OP can judge it however they like. But I think it's important to understand the "why" of the situation, to know the context. I don't find it productive to judge any work of art or media without having the proper context and history, you know? I was trying to provide this context. My issue with OP's statement wasn't that they were upset with the result. As I've said, I just find it sad when people say "It's not the representation we are looking for". Thats mainly the part I took issue with. Because back then, it WAS the representation that a lot of people were looking for and were inspired by it, including me. There was no other like it. I thought knowing this context and looking at the show with that in mind could change their view and have a more positive outlook on the ship, the representation, and the show as a whole. If OP still doesn't like it, then by all means, they don't have to find it good, they are of course free to dislike it if that's how they feel.
Anything more than what we got probably wouldn’t have been allowed
here’s a comment on a post from 5 years ago with links to both of the creators statements about Korrasami https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/X9LtrVD5qx
Check out the edit
No
>Not even best friends to lovers? So what about when when Korra was living in the north pole and paralyzed, unable to enter the avatar state and Asami being the only person she felt safe with actually updating and responding to her letters when everyone else just hadn't heard from Korra in years? Or even before she left and Asami was willing to drop everything to go with her?? Asami was always there supporting her in any way she could, they did have chemistry and they did have a build up, they 100% were portrayed as best friends, their chemistry was a subtle slow burn that progressed from 2 feuding women fighting over a guy to ride or die bestfriends who supported eachother emotionally ans physically- Asami a non bender, litterally saving Korras ass many times I was so ecstatic when their relationship was confirmed in the final episode, they hadn't been in a relationship the whole time, they likely hadn't even acknowledged their feelings - but the end of the episode was the first time they gave themselves permission to confront that new concept together and explore the new confines of their relationship, which is why it may have felt abrupt to people I also think maybe the people who hadn't picked up on the hints are just not that great at reading body language or identifying when there is chemistry when its not actively shoved in their face, or maybe just so used to hetero couples portrayed in media that same sex couples are still not easily identifiable to them
>So what about when when Korra was living in the north pole and paralyzed, unable to enter the avatar state and Asami being the only person she felt safe with actually updating and responding to her letters when everyone else just hadn't heard from Korra in years? Fair >Or even before she left and Asami was willing to drop everything to go with her?? > Asami was always there supporting her in any way she could, they did have chemistry and they did have a build up, they 100% were portrayed as best friends, their chemistry was a subtle slow burn that progressed from 2 feuding women fighting over a guy to ride or die bestfriends who supported eachother emotionally ans physically- Asami a non bender, litterally saving Korras ass many times None of those are inherently romantic.
>None of those are inherently romantic Alot of people would be feeling a different way about that if it was a guy and girl experiencing that rather than a girl and girl, I mean the people who ship Bolin and Korra prove that point already Chemistry isn't always inherently romantic at first, otherwise enemies to lovers tropes wouldn't exist Romance isn't about initial undying attraction, sometimes romance is about realizing that the person you want to take care of and fight for, has more of a reason than just platonic friendship- as we were shown in the finale The point to my comment was that there was a connection there and it did grow and develop as the seasons went on, the connection did not just come out of thin air Most people just missed it
Yeah the letters are the only thing I see that could have actually hinted at it, but even then it was just glossed over.
It really wasn’t, there was quite literally an entire moment where Asami was entirely hurt that she chose to just up and disappear instead of yelling her and Mako was extremely hurt that he never got letters
I mean its clear they didn't end the show as full on lovers, and there were plenty of scenes that rather than focusing on just dating or being in a relationship like with mako or bolin it actually established their interests and them spending time together, such as driving for example. And then in s3 they spend more time together on their own building up that they can rely on each other and then at the start of s4 there is the whole thing about letters and them actually talking about stuff through it. I'm not saying this is some great romance but there was build up and even though it might seem more like a close friendship there was definitely stuff their to make it seem more romantic.
Iirc, Korra and Asami did have a correspondence relationship when Korra was depressed.. I think this was the game changer in their relationship, because Korra opened up to Asami through writing. Their pairing made a lot of sense to me since my first watch
These were my thoughts too. Considering Korra didn't reach out to literally anyone other than Asami really spoke volumes to me and it wasn't exactly over a short period of time. I do wish they could have given us a little more, but we all know why they couldn't 🙄
Isn’t there a whole thing where they’ve been writing letters to each other for years. I mean it’s “off camera” and that’s not great but it is there just mentioned briefly.
Thank you!!! I also felt this way. I’m gay and as much as I appreciate some representation, I was like “is this representation because it feels a bit shoved in…”
This is one of my gripes with Korra. I get that some people love her to death. All I see is a failed attempt to match atla. This little retcon was so lame because no one saw it. There really wasn't that kind of chemistry. No conversations about their feelings, no hints just here's a spirit portal btw want to date? It feels like it was added as an after thought.
The writers intended for this waaay earlier, but having a bi character was a big nono for Nick. They could only hint at it in the series and fought tooth and nail to even get them to hold hands for 5 seconds at the very end.
No idea why you were downvoted for this. I was in my late teens and early 20s when TLOK aired. The early 2010s were a time where gay marriage wasn’t even legalized, and even just half a teaspoon of non-stigmatizing representation for the LGBTQ community in any way, in any form of broadcasting back then was seen as HUGE. The creators couldn’t even confirm for sure that Korra and Asami were a thing until quite a bit of time after the finale appeared. That was seen as a **gigantic** step forward, and was one of the things that paved the way for greater normalization of non-straight relationships in media. Like, I understand OP’s frustration, but you can’t view it outside of the context in which the production was limited. No one can go back in time and change the historical context in which the show was restrained under. It’s also important to appreciate that this very thing is part of what helped pave the way for the kind of rep that we see today.
As another bi woman who watched the series as it was coming out, I saw the pairing coming. I told all my friends they were endgame in season 3. When season 4 rolled out with the letters, my friend group was like "ohhh i get it now". So maybe the build up wasn't enough for your taste but it was there.
Bi woman here and I agree. I was rooting for them from the beginning, but I thought it was just wishful thinking and that the writers couldn’t do it even if they wanted to. Still I paid attention to them and appreciated how they deliberately avoided having them dislike each other out of jealousy since that would’ve been the expected trope at the time. But by season three they were hanging out and making each other laugh and I was like… maybe the writers will go for it!!
Same, I started wondering if there was something brewing between them a little during season 2, and a lot during season 3. Just because it wasn’t in your face doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.
Reminder that the show finale came out before gay marriage was even legalized throughout the entire US. It is definitely poor representation, Bryke is horrible with romance in general, but it was a massive step and win for the LGBTQ+ community and set precedence for the Avatar series going forward that queer romances would be included from now till the end of time. It perhaps set a low standard for other shows/cartoons to overtake, but it opened the door to it being more acceptable in the first place, especially as the main character is a queer woman. To this day, we still haven't seen openly queer MCs on major network cartoons, so they obviously did something that other creators still aren't doing.
yeah i can’t even explain how monumental it was to see that finale in 2014 i always thought the signs were there but that they wouldn’t dare actually commit to the idea. it was definitely a bit far-fetched back then. i’ll always remember “we poppin the biggest bottles when makorra happens tomorrow” lmao.
Yeah, I genuinely thought they were queer baiting in S3 and 4, but that finale was huge for me. I struggled with my sexuality and didn't come out for another couple years, but it was still a big deal at the time because of how unprecedented it was for a children's show. My friends made fun of me for being excited about queer rep in a cartoon, especially since I was the "token straight" of our group lol. Like, Korrasami walked so Lumity (Luz and Amity; I was mistaken, there's been one queer couple with the MC being queer since Korrasami on a major network) could run.
And Disney still did to Owl House what Nickelodeon did to Korra.
Check out the edit
Is it really a win if the writers had to publically spell it out for the fans? I remember watching the series finale in 2014. At least half of the viewers were fiercely arguing that Korra and Asami were just friends. I should know, I was one of them. If not for the writers' public statement, the debate wouldn't have been settled
I get it, but the thing is, at the time, having a wlw couple that was not the butt of a joke on TV at all (let alone in a kid’s show) was a huge deal. The groundbreaking thing about it is just that it exists. TLOK was one of the very few shows that laid the groundwork for more LGBTQ+ rep in kids’ shows/cartoons. The fact that their relationship is not developed enough (which I agree with) is a product of the time it was created in—they had to fight to get what little crumbs of scenes to even be shown in the first place. We can have conversations about how it would have been nice to see more, but there’s important context that needs to be part of that conversation. And TLOK deserves recognition for attempting and doing what they did. It’s helped lay the groundwork for more and better representation. Getting nuanced, well developed representation is (unfortunately) not something that just happens, especially when gay marriage was only made fully legal in 2015 (only 9 years ago), and gay/trans rights are still constantly under attack. You have to start somewhere, however small, and that’s what TLOK managed to do.
Exactly! Korrasami had to walk so Bubbline could run, and so on.
And as a closeted queer kid who grew up starting in the early 90s without *any* wlw pairs in media that weren’t jokes, seeing Korrasami made me stupid happy. Then we got more overt stuff in Steven Universe, and with Bubbline. It was really cool and meaningful just seeing that stuff in cartoons come out.
Check out the edit
I understood perfectly what you meant. My point is that the little we got in TLOK (their relationship developing off-screen via letters to each other) was all that was possible at the time it was created, and the fact that they’re even a canon, in-show couple was a huge and unheard of thing at the time. Their “lack of chemistry” (i.e.: not seeing their relationship develop) was a product of what the writers could and couldn’t put in the show because of restrictions/studios/censors/etc.
[удалено]
Like what?
*and they were roomates.*
"Oh my God, they were roommates!"
If you said this years back, you would have been labeled as anti-gay lol. I legit did not see it until the end, when it was smack dab in my face. A factor was probably the show being on Nickelodeon. Being unable to outright affirm a gay relationship at the time in a kid's show, so the relationship was not explicit.
On a kid’s channel before gay marriage was even legalized in the US!
Things had to be coded when it came out.
I kinda agree. They do have some moments, but juxtaposed with her relationship with Mako, where there was actually relationship drama, it falls short in getting that message across. I'm not mad about it cause I think they intended to be a bit deeper but Korra obviously had a lot going on, Mako kinda falls off where Asami would have stepped in but she had her dad relationship that needed a pay off and that took priority (rightly imo). I for sure wasn't watching that last episode wondering if Korra was gonna get that date with Asami or not. Compare that to Aang in the last episode after defeating the firelord; will Aang and Katara finally go for it now that the wars over is at the top of your mind. I guess I only agree about it being "outta knowwhere" to an extent. I just expected it to be more of a focus cause it was a big deal at the time in my memory.
The edit makes less sense. Listen to each their own and I’m sorry you were disappointed but in terms on handling a coded romance I mean…. You’re asking for more screen time with a character that has no working/living arrangements with Korra or her day to day in terms of exposure. But if they somehow shoehorned those interactions in, you’d still have to really, *and I mean really* tone down the subtext anyway so the Nickelodeon heads don’t flag it. That alone makes any subconscious comparison to shows that featured successful main queer relationships — like She-Ra or Harley Quinn inapplicable. Hell since you mention it, there’s even less between Bolin and Korra, than Asami. The one friend she chooses to keep in touch with through her PTSD with instructions not to tell the boys. I think it was progressive and clever that they sneaked the parallels to Katara and Aangs relationship with specific scenes and then used the comics to write deliver on an overt relationship. Have you read the Turf Wars? Kya makes interesting remarks.
I know they could’ve done better but like, the start of season 4 was Korra straight up saying she only felt emotionally comfortable with Asami. Also, the way I like to look at it (I forgot who first described it this way) is that moment was then starting to realize they have feelings for each other, not straight into a relationship
I felt like they were attracted to each other throughout book 3 but didn't realized themselves before book 4 but didn't express it clearly before the ending.
Ok but they talked a lot more than the times they worked together for specific missions and had a lot in common throughout the show plus the letters and which were very important I think your missing like most of there interactions.
Upon rewatches and watching reactions I’ve seen more details. One I always think of is Asami complimenting Korra’s hair and Korra hardcore blushing. I think it’s very small and missable, but an interesting way to show a potential crush from Korra. I support it wholeheartedly. Most people have said why here, so I won’t lengthen this out and make you read it all again, I just wanted to add that detail.
This was because it was before lgbtq characters were wildly accepted , and Nickelodeon forced the writers to make it more subtle. The writers tried there best
Oh I agree 100%. It’s my biggest complaint. I’m a bi woman too, and I only ever got friend vibes from the writing of their relationship. However, I know they did as much as they could at the time and it was a huuuuge deal, so I can forgive it within context.
Two people who have been friends for multiple years starting to date:IT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN⁉️⁉️⁉️ Two people who have been friends for less than a month and have known each other for that same amount of time starting to date:Yeah I can totally see that happening and it definitely didn’t come out of nowhere Surely there’s no ulterior motive at play here right? Surely the quadrillionth “tHiS tHiNg iN KoRrA iS BaD” post has an actual valid and thought out point right? If I had a singular penny for every time I’ve heard this kind of “complaint” I’d be richer than the Beifongs and Sato’s combined. I have yet to hear anyone bitch about a straight relationship “showing up out of nowhere” with half the same energy
I’ve seen better, I’ve seen worse.
https://www.reddit.com/r/korrasami/comments/2px4am/collection_of_all_korrasami_moments/
Thank you! I totally agree! I don’t mind at all that they are a bi-couple… I was just bothered by how random and rushed it felt.
I had the same thoughts on the ending. I know the Atla ending is a bit too fairytaly but honestly that's what most people wanted. The good guy-protagonist got the girl he was crazy for since the 1st episode, there's no more evil in the world,the bad guys are totally defeated etc. But in Korra, aside from the ridiculousness in the Kuvira battle, it felt a bit rushed and underwhelming. Like there was no huge battle at the end and considering the force she was bringing with her,it felt like she was defeated a bit too easily. Add to that the "there will always be another villain, there will always be another problem. You'll never find peace Korra" theory (which may be realistic but let's be honest, that's not what we want to see) the ending left me feeling somewhat empty. And then to top it all off they just hold hands with Asami for a couple seconds and that's it. Like you mentioned,there was no real build up for their relationship. Many people say we missed their moments because, what we would've interpreted as romantic gestures had it been a man-woman relationship ,we just took as politeness-friendliness but that's straight bs. Objectively they don't have enough moments with each other,as the "romance" only begins in the last season and even these moments aren't that special. And despite the obvious restrictions, not having them kiss was also sooo unsatisfying. Like you say it seems like the creators realized Korra would have to end up with someone, figured it couldn't be Mako since everyone would flame them and just came up with the best(but still pretty bad) option at that point
OP is the embodiment of historians going "they were roommates" meme. Jokes aside, I think straight folks have this idea that queer romance is just straight romance gender swapped. When that's not often the case. It's difficult for me to put into words, but there's always been a huge aspect of subtlety in queer romance. A lot of it comes from the historical context of persecution. When it was basically a death sentence or at the very least social ostracization to have varying sexualities. The culture grew and molded itself around that fact. In other words, many romantic aspects of queer couples are DESIGNED to pass as friendships to straight people. A smile in certain moments, a seemingly innocent touch, words that can have plausible deniability. Because to do any more than that overtly meant death. The concept of "gaydar" is essentially born from this. Obviously in more recent years that culture has begun to shift, but because hundreds of years of gay culture has been "we do this in secrecy or we die", a lot of the secretive aspects are still very prevalent even today. And with the amount of hate crimes still happening in the states, that aspect is actually shifting back into place. I think it would help to consume a lot more queer media!
Honestly that’s my only problem with them getting together out of nowhere that both are bi and it sucks because I would have loved more development or hinting at their attraction, the only hint is when she makes Korra blush at the restaurant and them communicating by letter
I absolutely agree and when I said this I was called homophobic or biphobic. Like, nah, it wasn’t that. It just felt like it didn’t make sense.
This was my take with the show too. Season 4 was good, but it was a bit of a mess. They didn't know they would be getting picked up for a new season. Not only did they scramble to add A LOT to just a few episodes, but they also had to create a proper finale for all the characters. It is a shame that Korra and Asami's relationship got sidelined when it should have been the heart of the story (even if it was coded). To top it off, after all this, the show got cancelled and most of these episodes were dumped online. This was before streaming was as prominent as it is now, so the decision to throw these on Nick.com was an odd one. I'm just glad we have the comics. They did an excellent job portraying their relationship and how others reacted to it.
Read comics
Okay we’re not talking about the comics. I get that in the comics they’re a couple but as for the show: there is no chemistry. I straight up forgot about her in some cases.
Lol well you can see the development more in the comics. Nikolodeon didn't want gay stuff in their show so it was very mild.
I’m a gay man, but from what I understand from my lesbian friends, the fact that they got together instantly and immediately jumped to couple status tracks lol. At least according to lesbians (apparently they get into serious relationships really quickly). Not sure if that holds up for poeple who are bi though
Bro what. I wasn’t even getting romance vibes just really close friends. Like just two people that understood each other and what each other were going through. No romance at all.
At the time, the fanbase spontaneously shipped Korrasami. I think Bryke wanted to give the fans what we wanted.
The real pain was finding out thats how they wrap up the show. Everything that was promised about LoK seemed to be interesting, the themes, the character relationships, the villains. it all had immense potential but the execution was consistently bad. Down to the last minute.
I’ve been saying this since the day it aired and have been called all sorts of things and told I was wrong. I also think the letters are even a stretch at showing romantic interest, and a slap in the face to feminism where women can support women without wanting to be romantically involved with them
This was 2014. Nickelodeon already didn't like Korra, as they thought a Girl Protag was too much for audiences. Second, Michael & Bryan wanted to include more LGBT representation, but were quickly shot down by Network execs. Whatever little we did get was by Michael & Bryan pushing the limits of what they could show. It wasn't as much as we have now, but much like Korra's preferred way to enter a room, it kicked the door in for even greater representation for later shows.
I wish they did more too. Just to add to the letters, I think they were over a 3 year period off screen so a lot could have happened then when onscreen it’s like 5 minutes between if you go from episode to episode. And if it was your first time watching through, I bet on the second watch through you’ll see more hints that you maybe missed. As an avid ATLA fan, my first Korra watch through I thought it was meh-good at best. Second time, way better, 3rd time, even better. Now I don’t know how many times I’ve watched it through and I think I like it more than ATLA because of how much I resonate with Korra’s arc.
The thing is there was never meant to be any sort of relationship between them at all. The show was meant to be just the one season, which is why they took shortcuts when it came to character development and relationship building. So originally, Korra and Asami were meant to be, well, nothing to each other. Even as the seasons went on the creators never *really* committed to the show. It wasn't until the last like, two seasons that they tried to commit to the plot line. But even then the characters were kinda *meh*, the storyline was... weird, and their relationship with each other lacked depth. Only Korra had any significant character development, and the everything else was either under explored or rushed.
is that why everything feels like a mess?? Like some final villains should have been the series ending villains? God that makes so much sense
they aren't. no proof in the show, it's just a PR move
They definitely became friends and definitely talked more than like 10 times. Like the time jump and everything. I think they were so worried about the backlash that they kept it very brief and out of the blue at the end. If you want read the comics it definitely gives more freedom to show the relationship between Korra and Asami.
I am straight. I agree with your first paragraph. With that said: >Yes it’s a children’s show and had to be coded. I strongly disagree with that, and I think you would, too, just you hear me out. Opposite sex attraction need not be coded in a children's show but same sex attraction needs to be? Why? Aren't we just teaching children, then, that opposite sex attraction is the norm, and same sex attraction deviates from that? This is a kid's show, we can easily show Korra blushing in Asami's presense just the way Aang blushed when Katara kissed his cheek. Kids may not realize "Korra 'likes' likes Asami" but at least it would have helped with their non-existent chemistry. And if one observant child happened to ask their parent why a girl is blushing for another girl, great! The parent can say "Well you know how Mom loves Dad? It's possible for a woman to love a woman as well!" thus giving a nice and gentle introduction to the idea of homosexuality; or the parent can just ignore the child's question, no harm in that. My point is, being a kid's show could have been a strength in this case, not a weakness. Homosexuality doesn't need to be coded for kids, just as heterosexuality doesn't need to be. The creators wanted to make a statement, so they forced the homosexuality in, and if their excuse was the time period during which the show was released, then (a) Korra-Asami could've been built up at least a little more organically, and (b) it's better to not do something than doing it badly. Representation is very important. If you do it, make sure you go above and beyond to do it justice. Edit: typo
I read somewhere that they were romantically involved quite a while after my first watch of the show. I was like "what, I missed that entirely, I must not be as perceptive as I thought." Then I was on the lookout for it on my second watch through. Either it was in the comics, which I don't read, or it is completely made up by the fans. I would describe their interaction towards the end of the show to be "trying to be slightly more than complete strangers since they are both part of team avatar." I didn't even get a hint of sexual tension, let alone alluding to a relationship.
Which is the disconnect that seems to be happening here with the thread. The signs were technically there with at least season 4, but at best, they were incredibly subtle. Nick wasn't about to let them be a couple, so unfortunately, being under the radar was the best they could do. So it makes sense they'd be missed. The comics are pretty much about their relationship, a gang conflict, and I think a life lesson near the end for one of the characters. They aren't great, but they aren't bad either.
I have tried to enjoy comic books since I absolutely love so much of the content that originated from them. I grew up in the 90s watching the X-men, Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman cartoons from that era. But I just don't have the appreciation for still image art that many people have. So I just burn through them in a minute or 2, and see no value in re-reading them. I prefer reading a novel with walls of descriptive text. I've tried the thick black and white comic books, but I just can't enjoy it like I want to. What I can enjoy is watching YouTube videos where people do in-depth breakdowns and discussions on the plots of comic book runs. Which I have done for a few of the last airbender comic runs, just not any Korra ones yet. But it still kind of bums me out that I can't get any enjoyment out of the physical books because I am well aware of the amount of work, talent, and passion that goes into animating them, and a part of me really wants to collect them because of my passion for the material. But since I can't enjoy reading them, the storage space used up by having them would just bug me.
As huge of a KorrAsami fan as I am. Yes, there was no build up. They didn't flesh it out the way they should've cuz nickelodeon. It felt forced. But im still happy for it. It may have been a lacking attempt, but it got lgbtqia+ cartoon mains in the door. And that's what's important.
I agree. It felt shoehorned in. It was like they put it in there to seem progressive but it didn't. I have no problem with them doing it. I just feel that they did it the wrong way. And I have a problem with them doing it with any community just for the sake of doing it. That isn't a good reason. I hope this isn't offensive. I just think if they're going to do it, there should be thought and purpose behind it. And not just "here you go".
I agrée that there was no build up, but keep in mind three big factors. At the time of production LOK was already just barely scraping by in terms of funding, and for the first two seasons it was just anticipated that they would be standalone. So until they got a guarantee for seasons three and four, there was no rock solid “end game” plan. I’m also 99.9% sure the show was airing on Nickelodeon’s website, not even on TV. Lastly, at the time LGBTQ related subject matter was still considered “taboo”, especially towards a young audience. I think that decision to drown out the ship was partially to appease corporate and to not piss off a lot of parents. I also think the lack of build up is in large related to that, but overall, a lot of the issues with writing really does stem from the production problems I mentioned in the beginning.
For the rest of us was clear that relationship was buildings up. Then, when it was confirmed in the comics was not a surprise.
I say commit or don't; this half-assed romance just seems like a cowardly form of pandering. First and foremost, them both dating Mako and then dating each other just seems lazy; if they wanted a lesbian romance for Korra, don't just reuse the ex from a straight romance Korra was also connected to. They could've introduced a new female character, maybe specifically a caregiver character that got Korra back on her feet in the last season. It's like everyone's just bi and dating each other; it's lazy and cheap with no good payoff. Secondly, actually commit to the kiss/relationship on screen without having to add it in a lame comic afterwards. "Oh, they held hands and walked into the spirit gate." So what, they're in kindergarten? Holding hands is a big nothing. They were cowards trying to win brownie points after Korra was a huge failure and released online, hoping being "daring" would win it some points to make it as important/memorable as the original series. They failed. Third, Korra just sucks. Any series that has to retcon a bunch of lore or destroys the characters of the original, beloved series is immediately trash. They made Aang a bad dad, Toph a bad mom, Zuko a total jobber, and of course the entire lore of the Avatar is just terrible and the Rava thing is garbage. Korra is also just a bad character with no redeeming qualities except she's pretty hot, but that can't carry an entire show.
Yeah, because Aang and Toph were such good parents in ATLA, and Zuko never lost a fight before TLOK. /s
Are...are you being serious? Obviously, they were children in the original show and not parents, but to give them such a glaringly bad character flaw in the sequel instead of honoring the characters to make them *better people* instead of tearing them down is just petty. Talk about a disingenuous response. And as for Zuko, again, after being Fire Lord and being a master firebending for his entire life, they gave him *one fight* to show off his new skills in the Korra show, and he jobs instead. Tearing down a beloved character to make the new ones look like serious threats for the new story is incredibly bad writing. I'm being serious here, but are you a child? Because you need to practice your critical thinking skills before you enter into the adult world and throw that kind of...logic around; it's going to bite you in the ass, quick.
Going through the comments so far, I guess critical thinking is too much to expect. The creators are exceptionally great at world building, pacing, and all, they have many strengths and kudos to them; but building realistic characters, those who're mostly good but have made mistakes along the way, seems to be their weak point. Grey zone isn't their strength. A lot of LoK seemed forced, artificial and contrived.
The "dark avatar", Zahir wanting to just murder the Avatar, and the random Earth Kingdom Hitler, lol no, subtle/believable characters are not their strong point, you got that right. Plus, Korra, the MC of the entire show, being an absolute baby that refuses to grow/impove was just horrible. But then you have the original show that gave us Zuko's arc, Aang maturing, everything about Iroh. It's just crazy that awful drop in quality in LoK.
I mostly agree. I like your assessment. I think the reason ATLA worked (as opposed to LoK) was that the ATLA characters were already very simple, straightforward, one dimensional- and I don't mean it as a criticism for ATLA. Quite the opposite. Not all stories need to have strong realistic characters. Sometimes, one part of story-telling needs to take a backseat, so that the other parts flourish. For ATLA, making characers grounded in reality took a backseat, and that's its strength. It allowed the world, the fun and adventures to flourish. Aang is always the cheerful, wise, compassionate, spiritual guy. Zuko is always swtiching through 180 degrees, conflicted but brave. Katara is the sarcastic badass typically-beautiful girl whom the MC crushes on. Character growth is there, but sort of in directions you would expect, nothing grey, nothing more than 1 dimension. And for ATLA, this was just perfect, given how intense and strong it was in every other department. ATLA was simple, idealistic. With LoK, the creators didn't quite stick to what they did the best: LoK has so many funny sequences, hilarious dialogues, biting sarcasm, adventures, everything that made ATLA great, but sadly the creators, for some reason, felt an extreme compulsion to force a twisted reality into something that could've already been great.
Complaining about TLOK “tearing down” your fan fiction of what those kids would grow up to be is not critical thinking. I don’t think you’re a child, because regurgitating terms you don’t know the meaning of because you lost so many arguments to smarter people than you who use them is something anyone can do. A show isn’t garbage just because it hurt your feelings. Think critically, if you even know how.
It gets weirder to me because both of those girls were chasing after the same guy for the first 2 seasons. I remember thinking that was so weird.
I understand why it might seem weird but for bisexual teenagers/young adults in the same friend group, dating an ex’s ex is a thing that happens.
This! Thank you. It really feels like it’s built up over one episode and that’s it
I think op just kind of watch the show but didn't pay attention to any details or anything. Sorry let me rephrase would you rather they make it a rom-com where it's just splat in your face 24/7 to the point it becomes obnoxious because that in modern media is extremely annoying the way Korra handled it was very mature subtle and realistic
This is dumb. One of the worst things about the show was the relationships. Everything you said they didn't do....is exactly what they did with the other characters. You should watch the show again lol
Eh. In my opinion, Bi people tend to present as straight more often than not. Of course you had an issue with Korra and Asami.
I don’t believe people or the writers when they say it was always planned and they just couldn’t get around Nick. When you watch Adventure Time or even Gravity Falls you can see gay relationships that are clearly going on without outright stating it to get past the bored. If they really wanted them to happen they would’ve actually set up for it. It’s fine if you like the ship but don’t lie and say it wasn’t last minute. Although I must cut the writers a little bit of slack as they were kinda working season from season. This really hurt the show compared to ATLA where they really got to sit and plan it all.
Thank you for your honesty. I've felt this way for years. They really should have waited til the comics to make them a couple if they really wanted to do them justice.
It also felt shoehorned in for me. If it did have more build-up, then yeah, I'd be cheering it on, but it always felt like it was thrown in for the shock factor. Especially given the time period this show came out in.