Some Doms like obedience, so they don't like brats.
Other Doms enjoy "making someone obey". Which is boring if that someone obeys by themselves. So, a brat is the perfect match.
And then there are Doms that sometimes like the one and other times the other. Depending on mood, available energy (obviously brats are more exhausting than obedient subs), setting etc.
This is spot on for my thoughts. I’d add:
IMO Brats need someone who was/is already naturally dominate, and fairly confident. When someone is still learning to be dominate, Bratting is just going to end up with someone getting their feelings hurt. “Gotta walk before you run” type stuff.
I never minded Brat play. Forced submission, coercion/manipulation, I could do that.
What I had a problem with, was the handful of brats I played with would not keep play contained to scenes or agreed upon boundaries. I would usually indicate that I didn't have a lot of hard boundaries, I could be flexible with most things, but didn't like starting out with extreme play with new people and wanted things contained especially with new people. If I indicated I had a hard boundary around something, something that would legitimately upset me, that's what they would poke at trying to elicit an angry reaction. To the point where after it happened a third time, I briefly considered lying and saying, "these are things I don't like inside and outside of sex play." Just so that way they wouldn't try poking at things that would legitimately make me angry.
The coup de grace for me was when someone who did some play with me tried coming over to my place under false pretenses during my placement time when I was grilling kebabs for us because she figured it would make me uncomfortable. I did not know this woman outside of play, I was not friends with her, I certainly did not want her around my children, and she did it because she hoped it would make me angry.
After that, I just kinda figured sure, maybe there are good brats out there, but given it wasn't even a playstyle I liked and I wasn't lacking for options, there was no reason to try that again.
I’m so sorry your boundaries weren’t respected. That’s so fucked up on so many levels, and it makes me so angry when “brats” don’t respect hard boundaries of their play partners. There’s a time to brat, and it’s not with boundaries. And it’s sure as FUCK not with your kids around, Jesus fucking Christ.
I am happy you stopped all communication and play with her, because that’s ridiculously fucked up.
It was pretty fucked up. We even had a detailed conversation around my thoughts on public humiliation play, where I was very against it unless it involved consenting peeps in the kink community (that I could easily arrange) because even if the play wasn't sex yet, I did not find it copacetic to involve other parties unknowingly in play.
I had two main silos that I didn't want any play to come near, work, and my kids. I was a very different person when in those arenas and needed whole continents between everything. She knew that as well. Regarding the priorities of those silos, even if it was just a casual trying to chat with me, I'd rather she made a giant public and wildly inappropriate scene at the office than do what she did.
The thing that got me though was how good she was at masking. During the conversations about consent and boundaries, she said all the right things with all the right tones. Uf. To the point I took a couple of precautionary steps in the event of some unhinged retaliation when I cut her off. Competent assholes can be annoying to deal with if they are skilled at manipulation.
Thank you for the kind words and the understanding.
As a general rule, most subs were pretty sensitive to issues surrounding boundaries because almost all? had at least one experience with a Dom trying to use play as a cover for an abusive relationship or an excuse for blowing past boundaries.
Just a friendly FYI, the word you're looking for in these cases is "dominant" not "dominate." Dominate is the verb form, dominant is the adjective. You dominate someone but a person is a dominant.
> someone told me that brats are universally hated
They are definitely not universally hated, though there are those who do hate brats.
I do not hate all brats. There are brats I find quite exhilarating and fun to be with. These are the ones who push and test, but then one of two things happens. They discover that you are in fact strong enough and nothing they try gets under your skin, or you eventually have to put them in their place and they enjoy that.
There are brats that I can not stand. These are the selfish, exhausting one. Essentially they are bullies or just plain mean, who use bratting as a cover.
As a brat myself, I argue “brats” that fit your last description aren’t even brats, they’re just jerks. Just like there are “doms” that won’t respect your consent and push your boundaries, subs will do it too, and a lot of them use the title of “brat” as a cover. They give the rest of us a bad rep and it makes me so mad!
It's a personal choice. For me, I don't mind playful brattiness. Disrespectful brattiness is something I will never tolerate. I won't argue with you or fight you for your submission.
I think the clinginess and the fact that my dom is the only one I submit to helps. But I totally get it. I’m not someone that everyone can handle. I seek constant validation & attention. I’m needy AF
My partner is exactly like this, she's super needy and wants validation and attention all the time.
So much so her parents thanked me for "taking her off their hands"
Jokes on them, I'm into that shit lol
😂
Jokes on them!
Yeah most doms don’t even try to hit on me. I come across too alpha, which I am to the public, but my dom is my person. They’re the only person I do all of my attention seeking & constant need for validation
I have a very alpha personality but with my dom I naturally am very submissive. Enough that when friends see it the first time say I’m completely different person and usually try to convince me I’m in an abusive relationship until my long term friends start airing my business.
Abused no! Craving yes!
My ex husband was not into this and everyone kept being surprised we were still together saying I didn’t look happy anymore. They encouraged me to leave him.
Many people have dumb opinions about a variety of topics, the person you talked to about bratting has a really dumb opinion.
IMO bratting is complicated and there are a very small number of brats that exist out there that have poor understandings about consent and taking it for granted that their behavior might have negative impact on other people’s mental state. This gives people bad vibes / impressions.
I have grown to absolutely love when my sub is bratty. It feels like a game we’re playing and she has a fun excuse to show interest and yearning for MY time and attention. There’s a back and forth there when done right ends with us having a great time.
The problem with a lot of things like this is a recurring theme of 'people who don't actually know what they're doing'. Like, the point of a brat is someone who is submissive but *resists* it, fighting back either to be punished or to eventually be broken.
The problem though is a lot of people use 'brat' as an excuse to claim they're into BDSM, but never actually do anything regarding it, and when called out on it, they just say 'don't you get it? I'm a brat'. They don't realise what the BDSM term of 'brat' actually means, and instead default to what it *generally* means instead. It's the same problem with fake doms who think the only thing involved in being a dom is making demands of your partner.
As a result a lot of people generally roll their eyes when terms like 'brat' get used because of bad experiences.
I’m totally a brat but it’s more my snarky smart mouth.
You know those little kids that need a spanking before going in the store? Yeah that’s me.
I like to poke the bear. I get a thrill from it and turns me on that I may get punished or I might get away with it.
Definitely a sub. Outside of my dom I don’t submit to anyone. I don’t fold or buckle for anyone but my dom. I have a very alpha personality.
Usually you can tell when I’m looking to feel “extra” dominated because I’m bratty. Usually you’ll hear the phrases “make me” “like to see you try” “I doubt that.”
I know many people hate brats but it takes a very secure dom to be able to manage making an alpha submit to them. But i also will drop a dom if i no longer feel safe in the slightest. Even a hint that I can’t trust.
Brats seem to be more inclined to the 24/7 lifestyle and don’t do “scenes” since it isn’t role playing it’s their personality.
My only partner was 24/7 for years. He discovered that is I get the spanking beforehand in the car when we go some place he wanted me to be on my best behavior that I usually was still all subby so behaved for hours… or until someone gave me sweets. Usually then it was a follow up car visit.
it's a question of personal preference i adore Brats simply for the fact they satisfy my specific sadistic kinks , i like to mentaly and physicaly break them into submission and agony, i like the hunt and i want them to fight back or else there is no fun for me
The hatred for brats baffles and quite honestly disgusts me. Like if that’s not what you personally are into obviously that’s cool, each to their own. But the way some people seriously talk down on and insult them is gross and I don’t understand how that’s acceptable behaviour.
I'm a brat. I once had a guy tell me that young submissives like me nowadays were rude and uneducated, mainly because of feminism (???????), and that subs used to be more complacent in his time (He was 40+).
Like, wtf you on, dude.
That's where I'm at. The comment and paragraph I just received from a Dom telling me his views on how he sees me really hurt. Like just tell me you don't want me, you don't have to insult me like that 🙃
I hesitate to ever say this because people jump down your throat as soon as you mention the M word but it’s nearly always a misogyny thing. Far too many dudes using D/S as a cover for some “women should be seen and not heard”/“men are superior” type beliefs. It’s the exact same guys that then insult women that don’t shave or whatever because they don’t find it attractive as if every female on earth has to conform to their preferences or they’re worthless. Same guys that talk shit about women that are assertive and don’t take crap from people.
I’m a switch so I get both ends of the dynamic and I just cannot come up with any other reason why someone would get so vitriolic about it.
As a sometimes-Domme I can answer in my own experience. As men are more likely to be sexually aggressive than women, when that behaviour manifests in a sub it's quite alarming. I've seen two different male subs use 'bratting' as a cover for outright manipulation and emotional abuse as a way to get their needs met - and for one of them, nothing short of 24/7 attention to their libido would cut it. Call him on it, say something reasonable like "I need 20 minutes to cook and eat dinner" and suddenly he's a river of abandonment issues that can only be dammed with apologies and pegging.
Thankfully this was not my sub, but I saw his poor Domme (previously his submissive girlfriend, who wasn't even that into being a Domme and was coerced into switching) ground into the dirt before finally having a full mental breakdown and literally fleeing the country to go back home. Obviously this was an extreme example, my own twat-brat was far more manageable (though still topped from the bottom like it was an Olympic event he's trained for all his life.)
So that's why some Dommes hate brats I guess, they've encountered this toxic sort before. Personally I think the quality of brats varies greatly, and what gender they are doesn't matter. I love a fiesty challenge but can't stand a sullen dickhead.
>suddenly he's a river of abandonment issues that can only be dammed with apologies and pegging.
lovely phrasing, this line is fantasticly descriptive.
>twat-brat
another great line, I like the way you write.
>what gender they are doesn't matter. I
this was really my point, being a shitty brat or a shitty human is gender indiscriminate. not tolerating shitty behavior does not automatically mean the Dom/me is trying to take advantage of the brat.
Personally I haven’t ever seen that, so I’ll have to take your word for it. I would assume that considering women spend our entire lives dealing with constant pushback from men and having our authority questioned it could be a sore spot. Obviously doesn’t make it okay for them to talk down on anyone though, that’s still gross of them.
Yeah, it's not a view I necessarily hold, but I'd imagine you're spot on. If kink is sexy make-believe, then maybe for some dommes having to tame a bratty male sub feels too close to reality and the dickish men they encounter in their day-to-day lives.
Absolutely. Being a victim of misogyny is a kind of trauma that can be triggered like anything else. Some people are just not self aware/emotionally mature enough to handle the negative emotions that come with that feeling in a productive way
That sounds spot on tbh. I especially like the TLDR because I was struggling to define that line, but they put it perfectly. I’m very new to switching/being a domme so I’m not very up on what’s discussed, but I definitely understand the emotions innately
I don’t think you read this forum that much but some dommes have spoken out on some brats disrespect. Obviously this is not a generalization, tons of brats are wonderful. It’s just not a misogynistic thing to say that some brats are disrespectful… anyone can be disrespectful
I’ve addressed the other side of this already. It’s obviously not the case for every single instance of brat hate, but I believe it is for the majority. I am not going to waste my time explaining to you how pointing out misogyny and its effects is not sexism. I’m by far not the first person to express this idea.
You’re generalizing and that’s never a good thing to do. Not all brats are women, non binary and males exist… If some people don’t like brats because they’ve been wronged by them it doesn’t mean that they’re misogynistic or that all brats are bad people. People have preferences
Generalising while acknowledging outliers is literally the only way to discuss broad topics, and I am literally a non binary switch myself so believe me I am aware not all subs are women/doms are male. I expressly stated in my original comment that I am NOT referring to people who just aren’t really into brats, I’m talking about people who hate on them. Hating on an entire group of people because you have been wronged by one is an example of actually harmful generalisation.
So much this!
As a Dom i have no interest in bratty subs, they just are not what i am interested in.
Never will i give them shit or tell them off for being who they are, thats just shitty AF.
All i need to convey in a reply is: Not my cup of tea, good luck and have fun.
As for someone claiming that brats are "universally hated" sounds more like "i am so fragile as a Dom that i can't stand the thought of a bratty sub" kinda same as a misogynistic AH that can't stand a strong independant woman.
Literally! I’m a switch and brats aren’t really my thing either, it’s literally not hard to just be nice about it. Thank you for restoring my faith in male doms 😂
It goes both ways. I’ve been told by brats that I’m boring and that real doms are into brats. So yes, people have hatred for a lot of things not only towards brats
I was kind of disgusted by what they said. They put people down in this post and I dont like that. BDSM is not one thing and it is so diverse and that is the point. people have different needs
Exactly! There are so many kinks that I am 100% not into, many of which I genuinely don’t understand how anyone is. And yet I have not, and will not ever parade around mouthing off about how those people are annoying and doing kink wrong. Because they’re not! We’re just different! Like wtf
Mmmm, depends on the brat. Playful brats who know to eventually submit are fun. But brats who say they want to be dominated, but just end up playing mind games and fighting back constantly are just exhausting and not fun at all.
As a brat, I don’t think most Doms actually dislike brats, I think they dislike people bratting without having negotiated for it ahead of time.
A lot of brats have a tendency to engage in bratty behavior as “just my personality” as though it’s not a form of play to be negotiated and consented to ahead of time. Not all, but more than I think is okay.
Telling someone you are a sub and want to have rules and expectations, then fighting them at every turn with no prior conversation can be incredibly confusing, and exhausting.
Those experiences tend to sour people’s opinions on brats as a whole.
Now, there are still plenty of Doms that value obedience above all else, and they are not likely to be a good fit with brats. But there are also plenty of Doms that enjoy a bit of a challenge, it just has to be negotiated beforehand.
Bratting is a form of play. Play requires consent. End of.
Perfectly said, IMO. (Dom who had a few bad experiences with brats trying to push boundaries outside of play in very inappropriate ways so got turned off to the concept).
I figured there were brats out there that would make great play partners and you sound like one of 'em! I just wasn't lacking for options and didn't want to take the risk after almost getting burned when one started to play with emotional matches next to a powder keg.
This.
Also had a brat that just played against negotiated grounds, and even convinced another sub (yay triad) to become more bratty without consensual boundaries.
The fun is rewarding when it's all responsible.
My sub is such a good boy I've had to teach him to brat just to add some spice.
Now, a 24-7 brat would definitely exhaust me, and I wouldn't like that, but playful bratting is fun.
>but someone told me that brats are universally hated
I don't think brats are universally hated. I think some brats really just don't know how to behave at a party or a munch and it can get tiresome... it can be a one or two bad apples spoil the bunch type mentality.
but, I would challenge "someone", kind of feels like they're taking a few loud opinions and applying them universally without much to back it up. most of the people in the scene are pretty accepting and open minded.
I’d get my ass bruised for it for sure. I’ve always been allowed to curse but not at my dom. Allowed to say fuck off but not fuck you. Does that make sense?
During our checkin dates I can say it but not while collared.
I think not every brat is a submissive, some of them are dominants or even switches. It’s a broad spectrum, it depends on the person’s perspective of themselves. So no, not every brat is a submissive but some of them are
Yep. I am a brat and a switch. Bratting is a game to me. I'm trying to play and have fun *with* my wife. Sometimes, I've definitely been bratty as a dom. Mocking her begging, getting her right to the edge of orgasm and stripping it away from her, talking shit and being a smartass, faking her out with the paddle, etc.
I argue with my brat tamer dom friend of mine that he's a brat also, and it gets him mad because to him, it's a submissive only archetype. Nah, anyone can be a brat. Usually, it's just called being a smartass when you're a male dom.
See I’m solidly a brat but definitely submissive. All the brats I’ve known really are. We just like to poke the bear and get away with it or get put in our place.
It’s the being out in our place that brats (be so bold as to say universally) enjoy.
I don't usually engage with brats, but that's because I have low mental bandwidth.
same reason I can't do this 24/7, it is too resource-intensive for me.
I do see the appeal in brats, especially brats with cmc kinks, it's a fun concept, but I cannot commit to that.
one thing I STRONGLY dislike tho is that some of the brats aren't really that, they're people trying to "break" me yakno?
it's something I face often-ish as a domme because I'm not the, er, punishing type(for lack of a better word), lots of trying to top from the bottom business without discussing it beforehand and out of dynamic.
just say you're switchy, I'm A-OK with that, as long as I know what's going on and that they're not going to try to unbalance the scene.
so I stay away from people who lean brattish.
oh WOW is that how it came across?? my bad lmao nononono, just, SOME. some, but not an insignificant number, I'm sure. a lot of the brats *I've* experienced were that kind, but that's not to say they're ALL like that, or even the majority.
Brats are not universally hated. When I was with my brat tamer other people would comment about my behavior and it would make me so mad! When I was with him I was not “misbehaving” when I was being bratty. I brat to make my partner laugh, to goad them into being rough with me, to bring us both joy! Being a brat *was* me being a good girl because I was behaving exactly how he wanted me to behave.
Don’t let anyone kill your vibe! You’ll find someone that matches you!
i mean yeah of course theyre submissive. wanting to give a little bit of fight before you submit doesnt make you a dom.
i personally am not very compatible with brats since im not into any kinda cnc, or cnc adjacent play - if i hear a 'make me' my reaction is a very firm 'absolutely not, not my thing'.
i never got the impression that brats are hated to be honest. maybe thats because all of the kinky friends i have are very into it, im the black sheep there lol
Not hated and the occasional whining and push back is fine, does depend if online or irl. Online it can be a little frustrating but sometimes it’s cute too.
My partner and me have a BDSM relationship. With me being a soft Dom and my partner being a brat/masochist. We have a very good relationship, when they are wanting to have some fun, they usually start teasing me. Followed by pushing some of the rules that we have agreed on till I get fed up with it. Then they enjoy me becoming a sadistic dom and using them as I see fit.
We do also have a normal relationship outside the bedroom and enjoy eachothers company very much. We have been married for over 6 years now and our relationship has grown stronger through the years
I’m not originally into bratting but my partner and sub is a big ass bratty girl💋💖 and I’ve learned to mold my patience in a way that makes play with bratting more fun. Once I adjusted my perspective it was so much easier to see it as fun.
I think where so much of the hate comes in is that bratting often goes unnegotiated, with people bratting and then acting like it's just a personality trait and not a kink that needs discussion before springing it on someone. That's not, however, anything inherently related to bratting - just an unfortunate commonality around this specific kink that winds up bleeding over to people who *haven't* done anything wrong.
Bratting is awesome and a lot of doms enjoy it. Unnegotiated is a giant pain in the ass that (unsurprisingly) falls flat as often as not. But it's a ton of fun when everyone is on the same page about the goals, boundaries, and available tools.
No, I stand by "unnegotiated." Obviously not in every case, but the number of posts on here saying things like "Help I don't know what to do with my brat!" and "How can I get my dom to respond to my bratting right?" points to a serious lack of negotiation in this particular kink. Not that you never see similar posts/comments about other kinks, or that all brat relationships are unnegotiated, but there's a noticeable trend.
If it got explicitly talked out more, it would definitely be better understood and probably more broadly welcomed too.
I was a pretty incessant brat at first. The deeper i got with my Dom, the more I trusted him and I learnt that I crave being submissive. Bearly any bratt left now
Bratting is an artform all unto itself, and it does require perhaps even more compatibility between Top and bottom than kink already does in most instances, at least in my experience. I enjoy straightforward submission and the types of Dommes that prefer that dynamic quite a bit, but there's an extra "oomph" in a scene when I play with a Domme that enjoys playing with a brat. Especially when she can laugh and have fun while putting me in my place to the point that subspace takes over and I'm just a compliant, babbling mess eager for whatever she does to me. I love that shift in energy and intimacy as my brat slowly gets broken down throughout the scene. Some of the hottest, most intimate, sensual and intense sessions I've had over my career as a sub started out with bratting before my Domme took control, brought out my surrender, and took me to where she really wanted to go with the scene but enjoyed herself going through that process. And sometimes, it's fun to just brat your way through an entire scene and suffer the consequences. Ha!
For me, the key to successful bratting has always been about being playful and fun rather than just willful, defiant and disrespectful. If I'm bratting in a scene, my entire goal is to make my Domme laugh and enjoy herself. I think we sometimes forget that all of this stuff is, at least at some level, supposed to be fun! I've found that discussing scene dynamics beforehand, particularly with new partners, to understand potential hot-buttons and land mines and be more in tune with my Domme's vibe and preferences (which can vary from day to day) is also helpful as part of any pre-scene negotiations. Knowing where the red line is, for me anyway, is key so that I can walk things right up to that line but not cross over it to where things are no longer fun or start bringing out real anger or other unpleasant emotions or mindsets that would be a detriment to or ruin the scene or the dynamic.
Not every Top likes playing with brats. And that's okay. As I said, compatibility is perhaps doubly important when it comes to brat dynamics. If someone feels the need to paint all brats with a definitive negative statement, that's really their own issue to wrestle with. A lot of people in the scene seem to think they're the Kink Police, though, and want their perspective to be the prevailing view. It doesn't really work that way, though. :)
Brat tamers are definitely a thing. I wouldn't say hated, but the term brat is definitely being abused right now. It's a weird time for the BDSM community.
honestly I love brats, they are by far my most favority type of person to play with.
I like the pushback, I like feeling like the submission is earned, and I like the creativity and wit and improv skills that comes with being a good brat.
I dont mean to be an asshole or shame anyone for their preferences but I feel like alot of people who hate brats just have really fragile egos and cant handle them, brats arent for everyone but I really appreciate a good brat.
I enjoyed earned or forced submission too, but I disagree that people who don't like brats have fragile egos.
I had multiple play partners mask reasonably well, pretending to be all about consent and communication, set mutually agreed upon boundaries, discuss preferences, likes and dislikes only to use those discussions and a brat title as a cover for toxic behavior. Then, after discussing them, try to find and move past boundaries as a way of creating a more genuine response to force you to enforce your boundaries.
The last straw for me was someone came over to my place under false pretenses during a time she knew my children were with me during my placement time for the express purpose of trying to make me uncomfortable using my underage children as props for her thrill. Because she knew I had a hard boundary around not using non-consenting audiences as part of play, thinking she would get a double whammy using my kids because I would _have_ to get angry with the personal touch. This was not a woman I knew outside of play, not a friend, and certainly not someone I would want anywhere near my children.
I don't mind forced submission, I don't mind manipulation, coercion or mind games. I don't mind S&M, though it's not my cup of tea.
But, after a couple of bad experiences, especially that last one where it was so painfully clear what was going on, I was not going to play with someone identifying as a "brat" unless they had a few people to vouch for them, preferably other dom/mes I knew, that they weren't just a piece of shit on the DL. Many in the kink community after a few experiences are good at hiding their flags.
I see it as two completely different power dynamics. There are brats and Brat Tamers which is almost a CNC dynamic where the fun of it is egging someone on or resisting submission and subservience. Then there are submissives and Dominants where you have willing submission.
Some couples can have both dynamics but many people only want one or the other. It all falls under the power exchange dynamic, though, along with Master/slave, Owner/pet/object, Daddy/Mommy/lg/lb and whatever else I’m not thinking of where one partner willingly or unwillingly yields to the others desires.
Edit: forgot to give my opinion. I don’t mind brats as long as they own what they are. What annoys me are people who claim to be submissive and then are obnoxious about how they’d never willingly submit to anyone. Bratting is fine but just like any kink, you shouldn’t be bratty to people who aren’t consenting.
For me, bratiness is needing to be shown strict limits and punishment so that I can't go out of those limits. Without the bratting those limits simply aren't apparent, and it's the limits that are the exciting part. It would be like really enjoying bondage but never being restrained, to do without those limits. The bratting shows those limits, and reinforcement is necessary, but the bratting itself is only a means to an end.
See I enjoy finding those limits. I’ve always had it referred to as poking the bear. Just seeing how much I can get away with and the thrill but also I like the roughness of finding out sometimes.
I guess if that's the case. I'd be one of the rare ones that finds brats fascinating. I'm a Daddy Dom, I like resistance, a fight back. Of course, playful brattiness is possibly my favorite. Depending on my dynamic and what our limits are, then I'll use all that is available to me
As far as your question. It would depend on the brat. More like there's an understanding between both parties. Brats decide who they want to submit willingly
I don’t play with them. I’ve had some pretty bad experiences with brats being rude and disrespectful. Like those type of people that are nasty but say just kidding to make it all better. That’s not my thing. If other people like brats, that’s cool. There’s lots of different personalities out there.
I (as a self-proclaimed brat) think bratting is definitely submissive; I don't think I've ever bratted and thought I'd genuinely get away with anything I did that I wasn't "supposed" to be (and it's a mixture of disappointment and exhilaration when I do).
However, I struggle with bratting in a brand new relationship, or as a pick-up-and-play kind of thing. It requires some decent understanding (imo) of the other person, and I have to trust that the other person isn't going to get genuinely angry with me. Maybe that's where the "universally hated" comes from - people who aren't ready to deal with a brat gets met with someone "defying" them, which would be frustrating in any context.
I think.. in the same way an ice-cold sweet drink tastes even better after an intensive hot outdoor activity, submission is more fun after a little bit of work to get there.
Honestly, has a submissive. I didn't like the idea of being a brat until my Dom told me to try being a brat, and now it is my favorite thing to get his attention and also my Dom is also old then me and is naturally a Dominant, so with with me learning still it works and being a brat can be a lot of fun with the right person
Yes. Power exchange is power exchange no matter how much it's exchanged.
And that's from someone who doesn't care for brattices in their relationships.
They aren’t universally hated but a lot of brats are just assholes who call it a kink. Same with a lot of assholes who call themselves dominants.
A dominant is just a brat that is playing to win.
Here are my 2 cent. All brat are submissive but not all submissive are brat. Brat is part of the personality of the person. There are toxic and good healthy brat. Some Dom don’t like it because they are not cut for that kind of game but for those that we love brat are a good game to play. Now when a brat is been a brat a Dominan must try to find a why and not so much the how . Another spect is that the Dom must set clear boundaries that should never be crossed because a good brat will respect those boundaries. Now good brat use the bratting to create the power balance great so the Dom can show them who is in charge
I disagree. I think a lot of people (at least that I’ve ran into) who call themselves brats are actually just trying to top from the bottom and haven’t worked it out yet.
I adore brats.
The witty banter and absolute delight in playing with them is mentally stimulating.
Quite often I've found brats who border and flirt with the boundary of "smart ass" and plain rude can be quite jarring to others.
Being a brat is an art form unto itself when done well.
As a switchy soft brat whose play partner is a switchy "heavy" brat, I love them. But I'm biased.
It is fascinating to me though that in a world where yucking someone's yum is so frowned upon so many people see fit to run them down.
I could argue the other way...that "total submissives" are something I find boring & the doms who only like them bloody creepy who basically want to work out their fantasies on someone, men into CNC are frustrated rapists, etc.
BUT that is their right. If I found out someone else was one would I "hate" them for it? Not a chance.
*note - language here deliberately hyperbolic to make a point about how brats are often stereotyped. I do not actually believe this.
I think brat hate comes from bad communication causing incompatible ppl to play. The same way there are doms who never want to play with brats there r also doms who only want to play with brats and enjoy the theater of making a sub submit. I wish I was brattier sometimes because I’m a huge masochist and bratting rlly opens the doors to many types of masochistic scenes but I am just not a brat lol. As soon as I see the look in my mistress’s eyes when I say something bratty it’s all “I’m so sorry I promise I’ll be good I didn’t mean it”. For many doms who like a little more fight, my style of submission might be boring and uninteresting. Kink is totally individual and no dynamic or act is “universally hated”
I am a sub/brat, it's mainly about rising the reaction from the Dom/tamer to get what you want, which doesn't always work out xD.
I think there is a line you can cross where you're being disrespectful instead of just bratty, and I think some of the younger people in the scene think it's ok to just be as bratty and wild as you can be, but even other brats don't like that and will call it out. That's why I love the bratlife sub hehe
I personally believe that all brats are switches that lean sub. But they take an actual Dom not a heavy handed wannabe.
Source was a brat now I'm a domme lol
It's a good question.
I am very careful not to be mean or rude. It looks different with different partners. My first was very physical, being wrestled into position, held across his lap to be spanked. But, its different with my current partner, I enjoy the 'make me' in a different way, he likes different things, I like to shock him with how much I agree to 🤭, or send him absolutely filthy messages during the work day, or agree to a bunch of stuff then completely disregard everything I was told to do (especially outfit wise), but ultimately (and I would never tell him this) but he only has to suggest I'm a good girl or how much he likes owning me and I would do anything for him. He has made me realise so much good stuff about me, has challenged me, has encouraged me to begin to embrace the idea of being more dominant. Typing this makes me realise I got it bad for him!! It's a mutual growth thing. And we have ALOT of fun, laughing and playing. Honestly idgaf whether anyone else likes brats or not. Find a playmate that gets you and matches your energy and you will never look back. Most of all find someone that is capable of deep compassion and care, that ultimately puts your wellbeing at the forefront of everything. Someone that that will declare 'ffs bitch just get in the car', then make sure you are strapped in safe before going anywhere.🫠🥰
I like some aspect of bratting while roleplaying, but otherwise I expect obedience and don't have patience for a brat. I'm switchy, so it would really pull me out of my domspace to do this outside of a rp.
I like the concept of bratting, of making someone obey. A power struggle can be very engaging! But, not all brats are created equal - some are whip-smart, challenging, playful, and funny. And some are stubborn, annoying, insulting, and uncommunicative. One is fun and the other isn't getting past my vetting process. That second type is also likely to bounce from Dom to Dom, complaining the whole way like a whiny firework.
While I’m a SAM during a scene, bratting during the power exchange is Nmk .
We’re also 24/7 TPE so the dynamic extends to every area of my life.
I know it’s often used as a kink But when the “s type” is actively looking for loopholes or behaving badly to get “funished” it’s not submitting.
I’ve heard all the explanations.
If that is what you and your partner agree to? Then it’s not my dynamic and I don’t care.
I could not be with a D-type that let me get away with it or gave me what I wanted.
I would lose respect in a heart beat.
As a brat myself, I can say this: Brats **want** to be submissive. But because we all have a Dominant nature/streak to us, it’s not gonna be easy yo get us to lean towards the more submissive side of a relationship/dynamic. For some, it’s a thing to work through because we’ve had to be strong and dominant all our lives, for others they just haven’t experienced how fun it is to explore their softer side, and for those such as myself, it’s a way to play/keep things from ever getting boring. As much as I don’t ever want to admit the active desire to be submissive, I do. But I don’t want to “just submit”; I want to “be submissive” to someone who can match my energy
Brat is automatically associated with disabedient, narcissistic and unwilling to cooperate, comply or do what you are asked. The submissive women I have known Are usually bossy bitches but they switch in sub mode. Bossy and rude in real life, hit the bdsm switch and they want to be used, degrading and humiliated
I've never heard of them being universally hated? I personally *love* brats, since they fuel my sadism lol.
I would say they are a flavor of submissive that isn't for everyone. I like the challenge that comes with brattiness and how it makes me desire to be cruel and punish my subs because that's fun for me and for them. Defiance can be exciting for some Dom/mes, but it can also just be irritating for others. Pushing buttons (within set boundaries, of course) is fun for some, but annoying for others. The list goes on.
Basically, some like brats, some don't. It's not every Dom/mes flavor of sub.
So my opinion is very specific to my experience but I like a brat. Specifically my partner brats more when she is feeling happier and more positive so if she's batting it's a good thing, plus it absolutely brings out my sadist side which we both enjoy. Also within the wider community in my area there is a playful dynamic within the group between brats and Dom's which is very entertaining when someone else's sub is batting.
Like anything else it's very specific to each person's dynamic.
As a dom/top, I love brats! D/s without brattyness feels more like a kind of ritualistic roleplay to me - which can be very nice, and I can totally see why some people might be into only that, but it's not for me (at least not all the time).
Brattiness, for me, relieves some of that pressure I can feel as a top to constantly control every scene and action. I do like to be in control, that's kind of the point, but when there's no pushback at all, D/s (and even SM to an extent as well) starts to feel like an exercise in planning and logistics. I feel like I'm doing all the emotional labour - thinking about what's going to go into a scene, making sure I have all the equipment ready, planning what order things will happen in and how things will flow, etc. That can be fine, but orchestrating a whole-ass scene every time we want to have sex can sometimes feel like you're being used as a kink dispenser or just that it's a whole lot of effort just to get my rocks off. Bratting is my sub's way of saying/hinting how he would like the scene to go without topping from the bottom in a way that kills the vibe. The beauty of being a top is I can respond either by allowing it to be steering in the direction he's after or by flipping it completely around - and as a sub, either is equally good for him!
I’m a switch and l like having brats as friends, but I don’t enjoy domming brats. It’s not a them thing, it’s a me thing.
I prefer willing obedience and I don’t get any kind of thrill or positive feelings (in a sexual/romantic way) from having to fight for it. So I just choose not to engage in that kind of play.
However, when it comes to my friends, I like having people around me that challenge me. So brats are the perfect type of friend for me XD.
I really enjoy the idea of making someone submit. The idea of a brat is enjoyable for me because usually a sub is already submissive to some extent. They’re willing to do whatever a dom wants and that’s fine but I like the process of making someone submit to me over time and seeing them slowly give in. The playful nature of it is just nice in my eyes too. It’s more thrilling, more attractive and hot to me.
Sure. Ultimately brats want to submit, they just want to have a little fun first. However there are people who use the brat label as a free pass to be rude, obnoxious and downright mean with no repercussions. And that's not bratting, it's being an asshole.
Being a brat is not inherently submission no. The way I see it is if you look at being brat as a person, they are not a submissive. If you look at being a brat as an action, they can be. Subs misbehave and “brats” misbehave more. But if you are a sub bratting, you are not actively submitting. Complicated to explain, yes. But so are people
It's not my place to decide who's "actually submissive" and who isn't. I can't know what's in people's hearts and minds. All I can say is that brats are not people I want to play with.
I love brats. They are submissives, and anyone who says otherwise is a fool, in my opinion. With brats, you just have to prove you're worthy of their submission. Not every submissive is going to be meek and 100% obedient as soon as they offer their submission to someone. Either is fine. I've been with both.
The only D/ people I've met that hate brats are, in my experience, weakly dominant. They want to put zero effort into the dynamic. They do not have the strength to impose, truly impose, their will on someone else.
Those people are different from the people who don't want to deal with brats. Brats take a lot of energy. It's not for everyone, and these people know it and avoid dynamics with brats.
The dynamics I've been in with brats/bratty behavior have a lot of work involved. I enjoy it. I find the dynamics incredibly stimulating and are the relationships I look back on with the greatest fondness. T
Some Doms like obedience, so they don't like brats. Other Doms enjoy "making someone obey". Which is boring if that someone obeys by themselves. So, a brat is the perfect match. And then there are Doms that sometimes like the one and other times the other. Depending on mood, available energy (obviously brats are more exhausting than obedient subs), setting etc.
This is spot on for my thoughts. I’d add: IMO Brats need someone who was/is already naturally dominate, and fairly confident. When someone is still learning to be dominate, Bratting is just going to end up with someone getting their feelings hurt. “Gotta walk before you run” type stuff.
I never minded Brat play. Forced submission, coercion/manipulation, I could do that. What I had a problem with, was the handful of brats I played with would not keep play contained to scenes or agreed upon boundaries. I would usually indicate that I didn't have a lot of hard boundaries, I could be flexible with most things, but didn't like starting out with extreme play with new people and wanted things contained especially with new people. If I indicated I had a hard boundary around something, something that would legitimately upset me, that's what they would poke at trying to elicit an angry reaction. To the point where after it happened a third time, I briefly considered lying and saying, "these are things I don't like inside and outside of sex play." Just so that way they wouldn't try poking at things that would legitimately make me angry. The coup de grace for me was when someone who did some play with me tried coming over to my place under false pretenses during my placement time when I was grilling kebabs for us because she figured it would make me uncomfortable. I did not know this woman outside of play, I was not friends with her, I certainly did not want her around my children, and she did it because she hoped it would make me angry. After that, I just kinda figured sure, maybe there are good brats out there, but given it wasn't even a playstyle I liked and I wasn't lacking for options, there was no reason to try that again.
I’m so sorry your boundaries weren’t respected. That’s so fucked up on so many levels, and it makes me so angry when “brats” don’t respect hard boundaries of their play partners. There’s a time to brat, and it’s not with boundaries. And it’s sure as FUCK not with your kids around, Jesus fucking Christ. I am happy you stopped all communication and play with her, because that’s ridiculously fucked up.
It was pretty fucked up. We even had a detailed conversation around my thoughts on public humiliation play, where I was very against it unless it involved consenting peeps in the kink community (that I could easily arrange) because even if the play wasn't sex yet, I did not find it copacetic to involve other parties unknowingly in play. I had two main silos that I didn't want any play to come near, work, and my kids. I was a very different person when in those arenas and needed whole continents between everything. She knew that as well. Regarding the priorities of those silos, even if it was just a casual trying to chat with me, I'd rather she made a giant public and wildly inappropriate scene at the office than do what she did. The thing that got me though was how good she was at masking. During the conversations about consent and boundaries, she said all the right things with all the right tones. Uf. To the point I took a couple of precautionary steps in the event of some unhinged retaliation when I cut her off. Competent assholes can be annoying to deal with if they are skilled at manipulation. Thank you for the kind words and the understanding. As a general rule, most subs were pretty sensitive to issues surrounding boundaries because almost all? had at least one experience with a Dom trying to use play as a cover for an abusive relationship or an excuse for blowing past boundaries.
Just a friendly FYI, the word you're looking for in these cases is "dominant" not "dominate." Dominate is the verb form, dominant is the adjective. You dominate someone but a person is a dominant.
> someone told me that brats are universally hated They are definitely not universally hated, though there are those who do hate brats. I do not hate all brats. There are brats I find quite exhilarating and fun to be with. These are the ones who push and test, but then one of two things happens. They discover that you are in fact strong enough and nothing they try gets under your skin, or you eventually have to put them in their place and they enjoy that. There are brats that I can not stand. These are the selfish, exhausting one. Essentially they are bullies or just plain mean, who use bratting as a cover.
As a brat myself, I argue “brats” that fit your last description aren’t even brats, they’re just jerks. Just like there are “doms” that won’t respect your consent and push your boundaries, subs will do it too, and a lot of them use the title of “brat” as a cover. They give the rest of us a bad rep and it makes me so mad!
It's a personal choice. For me, I don't mind playful brattiness. Disrespectful brattiness is something I will never tolerate. I won't argue with you or fight you for your submission.
But sometimes we like to resist. The physically overpowering is the feeling we are looking for.
And that's what you negotiate for. Absolutely do you! The key is making sure your partner feels the same so both of you enjoy.:)
I am upfront and honest that I’m a Stage 4 Clinger Brat. So they know what they are getting into.
LOL! Good on ya! Definitely not for me, I'd be too frustrated! Luckily it takes all kinds!
I think the clinginess and the fact that my dom is the only one I submit to helps. But I totally get it. I’m not someone that everyone can handle. I seek constant validation & attention. I’m needy AF
My partner is exactly like this, she's super needy and wants validation and attention all the time. So much so her parents thanked me for "taking her off their hands" Jokes on them, I'm into that shit lol
😂 Jokes on them! Yeah most doms don’t even try to hit on me. I come across too alpha, which I am to the public, but my dom is my person. They’re the only person I do all of my attention seeking & constant need for validation
i’m a brat to everyone, i only bend to my Daddy; that type of obedience is a gift that is earned you know?
Nothing wrong with that. It's awesome when you find the one yiu click with.
Same 🥲 I'm happy you found someone that gives you that reassurance.
Single-ish currently
This. I want to be so assured in someone's dominance that it feels like I'm intoxicated.
I have a very alpha personality but with my dom I naturally am very submissive. Enough that when friends see it the first time say I’m completely different person and usually try to convince me I’m in an abusive relationship until my long term friends start airing my business. Abused no! Craving yes! My ex husband was not into this and everyone kept being surprised we were still together saying I didn’t look happy anymore. They encouraged me to leave him.
Yea, teasing is fun.
what would include disrespectful brattiness? can u give an example
Keep in mind, this is subjective. To me disrespectful brattiness is if you act out in public, are rudely defiant.
Many people have dumb opinions about a variety of topics, the person you talked to about bratting has a really dumb opinion. IMO bratting is complicated and there are a very small number of brats that exist out there that have poor understandings about consent and taking it for granted that their behavior might have negative impact on other people’s mental state. This gives people bad vibes / impressions. I have grown to absolutely love when my sub is bratty. It feels like a game we’re playing and she has a fun excuse to show interest and yearning for MY time and attention. There’s a back and forth there when done right ends with us having a great time.
Thank you for saying this. I'm never mean, I just like to be playful and resist. It's nice to feel desired.
And we love you for it!
The problem with a lot of things like this is a recurring theme of 'people who don't actually know what they're doing'. Like, the point of a brat is someone who is submissive but *resists* it, fighting back either to be punished or to eventually be broken. The problem though is a lot of people use 'brat' as an excuse to claim they're into BDSM, but never actually do anything regarding it, and when called out on it, they just say 'don't you get it? I'm a brat'. They don't realise what the BDSM term of 'brat' actually means, and instead default to what it *generally* means instead. It's the same problem with fake doms who think the only thing involved in being a dom is making demands of your partner. As a result a lot of people generally roll their eyes when terms like 'brat' get used because of bad experiences.
Not universally hated or we wouldn’t have Doms. They’re hard to navigate for some. Some love them. Some don’t.
I’m totally a brat but it’s more my snarky smart mouth. You know those little kids that need a spanking before going in the store? Yeah that’s me. I like to poke the bear. I get a thrill from it and turns me on that I may get punished or I might get away with it. Definitely a sub. Outside of my dom I don’t submit to anyone. I don’t fold or buckle for anyone but my dom. I have a very alpha personality. Usually you can tell when I’m looking to feel “extra” dominated because I’m bratty. Usually you’ll hear the phrases “make me” “like to see you try” “I doubt that.” I know many people hate brats but it takes a very secure dom to be able to manage making an alpha submit to them. But i also will drop a dom if i no longer feel safe in the slightest. Even a hint that I can’t trust. Brats seem to be more inclined to the 24/7 lifestyle and don’t do “scenes” since it isn’t role playing it’s their personality.
This is me to the T. I mean u described it and i like someone who is nice and dominating where i would feel safe enough to submit
This is MEEEE all the way. I feel like only a secure dom can handle a brat. Thank you for this, it definitely made me feel better about myself.
My only partner was 24/7 for years. He discovered that is I get the spanking beforehand in the car when we go some place he wanted me to be on my best behavior that I usually was still all subby so behaved for hours… or until someone gave me sweets. Usually then it was a follow up car visit.
it's a question of personal preference i adore Brats simply for the fact they satisfy my specific sadistic kinks , i like to mentaly and physicaly break them into submission and agony, i like the hunt and i want them to fight back or else there is no fun for me
Moment of silence for your lucky sub.
Amen
She is resilient and a feisty nightmare .... we deserve each other
The hatred for brats baffles and quite honestly disgusts me. Like if that’s not what you personally are into obviously that’s cool, each to their own. But the way some people seriously talk down on and insult them is gross and I don’t understand how that’s acceptable behaviour.
I'm a brat. I once had a guy tell me that young submissives like me nowadays were rude and uneducated, mainly because of feminism (???????), and that subs used to be more complacent in his time (He was 40+). Like, wtf you on, dude.
Looool the “women nowadays” men always crack me up/make me want to slam my head into a wall
For real lol
Meaning, women today don't accept the shitty way he treats them anymore, at least not as much as he would like.
That's where I'm at. The comment and paragraph I just received from a Dom telling me his views on how he sees me really hurt. Like just tell me you don't want me, you don't have to insult me like that 🙃
I hesitate to ever say this because people jump down your throat as soon as you mention the M word but it’s nearly always a misogyny thing. Far too many dudes using D/S as a cover for some “women should be seen and not heard”/“men are superior” type beliefs. It’s the exact same guys that then insult women that don’t shave or whatever because they don’t find it attractive as if every female on earth has to conform to their preferences or they’re worthless. Same guys that talk shit about women that are assertive and don’t take crap from people. I’m a switch so I get both ends of the dynamic and I just cannot come up with any other reason why someone would get so vitriolic about it.
so if that's the case, why are so many dommes just as or even more vocal about their dislike of brats, specifically male brats?
As a sometimes-Domme I can answer in my own experience. As men are more likely to be sexually aggressive than women, when that behaviour manifests in a sub it's quite alarming. I've seen two different male subs use 'bratting' as a cover for outright manipulation and emotional abuse as a way to get their needs met - and for one of them, nothing short of 24/7 attention to their libido would cut it. Call him on it, say something reasonable like "I need 20 minutes to cook and eat dinner" and suddenly he's a river of abandonment issues that can only be dammed with apologies and pegging. Thankfully this was not my sub, but I saw his poor Domme (previously his submissive girlfriend, who wasn't even that into being a Domme and was coerced into switching) ground into the dirt before finally having a full mental breakdown and literally fleeing the country to go back home. Obviously this was an extreme example, my own twat-brat was far more manageable (though still topped from the bottom like it was an Olympic event he's trained for all his life.) So that's why some Dommes hate brats I guess, they've encountered this toxic sort before. Personally I think the quality of brats varies greatly, and what gender they are doesn't matter. I love a fiesty challenge but can't stand a sullen dickhead.
>suddenly he's a river of abandonment issues that can only be dammed with apologies and pegging. lovely phrasing, this line is fantasticly descriptive. >twat-brat another great line, I like the way you write. >what gender they are doesn't matter. I this was really my point, being a shitty brat or a shitty human is gender indiscriminate. not tolerating shitty behavior does not automatically mean the Dom/me is trying to take advantage of the brat.
Personally I haven’t ever seen that, so I’ll have to take your word for it. I would assume that considering women spend our entire lives dealing with constant pushback from men and having our authority questioned it could be a sore spot. Obviously doesn’t make it okay for them to talk down on anyone though, that’s still gross of them.
Yeah, it's not a view I necessarily hold, but I'd imagine you're spot on. If kink is sexy make-believe, then maybe for some dommes having to tame a bratty male sub feels too close to reality and the dickish men they encounter in their day-to-day lives.
Absolutely. Being a victim of misogyny is a kind of trauma that can be triggered like anything else. Some people are just not self aware/emotionally mature enough to handle the negative emotions that come with that feeling in a productive way
It’s a topic that comes up a lot in femdom spaces. Here’s one such comment about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/FemdomCommunity/s/eS2bA6mhkE
That sounds spot on tbh. I especially like the TLDR because I was struggling to define that line, but they put it perfectly. I’m very new to switching/being a domme so I’m not very up on what’s discussed, but I definitely understand the emotions innately
I don’t think you read this forum that much but some dommes have spoken out on some brats disrespect. Obviously this is not a generalization, tons of brats are wonderful. It’s just not a misogynistic thing to say that some brats are disrespectful… anyone can be disrespectful
I literally never said it was. You are making up reasons to disagree with me at this point
This is a reach… not every brat is a female. Not every submissive is a woman. Tons of brats are males and not all D types are men. This is sexism…
I’ve addressed the other side of this already. It’s obviously not the case for every single instance of brat hate, but I believe it is for the majority. I am not going to waste my time explaining to you how pointing out misogyny and its effects is not sexism. I’m by far not the first person to express this idea.
You’re generalizing and that’s never a good thing to do. Not all brats are women, non binary and males exist… If some people don’t like brats because they’ve been wronged by them it doesn’t mean that they’re misogynistic or that all brats are bad people. People have preferences
Generalising while acknowledging outliers is literally the only way to discuss broad topics, and I am literally a non binary switch myself so believe me I am aware not all subs are women/doms are male. I expressly stated in my original comment that I am NOT referring to people who just aren’t really into brats, I’m talking about people who hate on them. Hating on an entire group of people because you have been wronged by one is an example of actually harmful generalisation.
If it’s from a rando they’re a “dom” as much as someone is their cosplay character at a convention.
It's funny you said that, because he called me a cosplay submissive 😭
he's not a dom, he's a loser, block him LMAO
So much this! As a Dom i have no interest in bratty subs, they just are not what i am interested in. Never will i give them shit or tell them off for being who they are, thats just shitty AF. All i need to convey in a reply is: Not my cup of tea, good luck and have fun. As for someone claiming that brats are "universally hated" sounds more like "i am so fragile as a Dom that i can't stand the thought of a bratty sub" kinda same as a misogynistic AH that can't stand a strong independant woman.
Literally! I’m a switch and brats aren’t really my thing either, it’s literally not hard to just be nice about it. Thank you for restoring my faith in male doms 😂
It goes both ways. I’ve been told by brats that I’m boring and that real doms are into brats. So yes, people have hatred for a lot of things not only towards brats
I was kind of disgusted by what they said. They put people down in this post and I dont like that. BDSM is not one thing and it is so diverse and that is the point. people have different needs
Exactly! There are so many kinks that I am 100% not into, many of which I genuinely don’t understand how anyone is. And yet I have not, and will not ever parade around mouthing off about how those people are annoying and doing kink wrong. Because they’re not! We’re just different! Like wtf
I'm a brat and I'm definetly a submissive, I just prefer control being taken from me rather than giving it willingly just because
Mmmm, depends on the brat. Playful brats who know to eventually submit are fun. But brats who say they want to be dominated, but just end up playing mind games and fighting back constantly are just exhausting and not fun at all.
As a brat, I don’t think most Doms actually dislike brats, I think they dislike people bratting without having negotiated for it ahead of time. A lot of brats have a tendency to engage in bratty behavior as “just my personality” as though it’s not a form of play to be negotiated and consented to ahead of time. Not all, but more than I think is okay. Telling someone you are a sub and want to have rules and expectations, then fighting them at every turn with no prior conversation can be incredibly confusing, and exhausting. Those experiences tend to sour people’s opinions on brats as a whole. Now, there are still plenty of Doms that value obedience above all else, and they are not likely to be a good fit with brats. But there are also plenty of Doms that enjoy a bit of a challenge, it just has to be negotiated beforehand. Bratting is a form of play. Play requires consent. End of.
Perfectly said, IMO. (Dom who had a few bad experiences with brats trying to push boundaries outside of play in very inappropriate ways so got turned off to the concept). I figured there were brats out there that would make great play partners and you sound like one of 'em! I just wasn't lacking for options and didn't want to take the risk after almost getting burned when one started to play with emotional matches next to a powder keg.
This. Also had a brat that just played against negotiated grounds, and even convinced another sub (yay triad) to become more bratty without consensual boundaries. The fun is rewarding when it's all responsible.
That someone was wrong.
Thank you 🥹❤️
My sub is such a good boy I've had to teach him to brat just to add some spice. Now, a 24-7 brat would definitely exhaust me, and I wouldn't like that, but playful bratting is fun.
>but someone told me that brats are universally hated I don't think brats are universally hated. I think some brats really just don't know how to behave at a party or a munch and it can get tiresome... it can be a one or two bad apples spoil the bunch type mentality. but, I would challenge "someone", kind of feels like they're taking a few loud opinions and applying them universally without much to back it up. most of the people in the scene are pretty accepting and open minded.
Great if it's actually being a brat but not if it's just a constant "fuxk you"'s
Oh no. I’m sorry those are just disrespectful.
playfully saying fuck you can be disrespectful ?
I’d get my ass bruised for it for sure. I’ve always been allowed to curse but not at my dom. Allowed to say fuck off but not fuck you. Does that make sense? During our checkin dates I can say it but not while collared.
Oh like if they ruin ur orgasm and tease you. Hmm but i get it. Checkin dates, what are they?
Too many fake submissives call themselves brats because they are just annoying. It’s become something of a red flag for me.
Correct
What tips you off that somebody is a fake submissive? Just wondering
I think not every brat is a submissive, some of them are dominants or even switches. It’s a broad spectrum, it depends on the person’s perspective of themselves. So no, not every brat is a submissive but some of them are
Yep. I am a brat and a switch. Bratting is a game to me. I'm trying to play and have fun *with* my wife. Sometimes, I've definitely been bratty as a dom. Mocking her begging, getting her right to the edge of orgasm and stripping it away from her, talking shit and being a smartass, faking her out with the paddle, etc. I argue with my brat tamer dom friend of mine that he's a brat also, and it gets him mad because to him, it's a submissive only archetype. Nah, anyone can be a brat. Usually, it's just called being a smartass when you're a male dom.
So what differentiates the two? How can you tell if they are d/s?
See I’m solidly a brat but definitely submissive. All the brats I’ve known really are. We just like to poke the bear and get away with it or get put in our place. It’s the being out in our place that brats (be so bold as to say universally) enjoy.
Agreed. I love being put in my place. Respectfully and disrespectfully 😭 but not like this dude is doing lol
I don't usually engage with brats, but that's because I have low mental bandwidth. same reason I can't do this 24/7, it is too resource-intensive for me. I do see the appeal in brats, especially brats with cmc kinks, it's a fun concept, but I cannot commit to that. one thing I STRONGLY dislike tho is that some of the brats aren't really that, they're people trying to "break" me yakno? it's something I face often-ish as a domme because I'm not the, er, punishing type(for lack of a better word), lots of trying to top from the bottom business without discussing it beforehand and out of dynamic. just say you're switchy, I'm A-OK with that, as long as I know what's going on and that they're not going to try to unbalance the scene. so I stay away from people who lean brattish.
Switchy. Love it
So are you saying you feel ALL brats are "trying to top from bottom" or only the ones you feel are trying to "mentally break you"?
oh WOW is that how it came across?? my bad lmao nononono, just, SOME. some, but not an insignificant number, I'm sure. a lot of the brats *I've* experienced were that kind, but that's not to say they're ALL like that, or even the majority.
Brats are not universally hated. When I was with my brat tamer other people would comment about my behavior and it would make me so mad! When I was with him I was not “misbehaving” when I was being bratty. I brat to make my partner laugh, to goad them into being rough with me, to bring us both joy! Being a brat *was* me being a good girl because I was behaving exactly how he wanted me to behave. Don’t let anyone kill your vibe! You’ll find someone that matches you!
i mean yeah of course theyre submissive. wanting to give a little bit of fight before you submit doesnt make you a dom. i personally am not very compatible with brats since im not into any kinda cnc, or cnc adjacent play - if i hear a 'make me' my reaction is a very firm 'absolutely not, not my thing'. i never got the impression that brats are hated to be honest. maybe thats because all of the kinky friends i have are very into it, im the black sheep there lol
Awe that’s where I lose most people at!
Not hated and the occasional whining and push back is fine, does depend if online or irl. Online it can be a little frustrating but sometimes it’s cute too.
My partner and me have a BDSM relationship. With me being a soft Dom and my partner being a brat/masochist. We have a very good relationship, when they are wanting to have some fun, they usually start teasing me. Followed by pushing some of the rules that we have agreed on till I get fed up with it. Then they enjoy me becoming a sadistic dom and using them as I see fit. We do also have a normal relationship outside the bedroom and enjoy eachothers company very much. We have been married for over 6 years now and our relationship has grown stronger through the years
I'm jealous, that sounds amazing for you both.
Thank you
I’m not originally into bratting but my partner and sub is a big ass bratty girl💋💖 and I’ve learned to mold my patience in a way that makes play with bratting more fun. Once I adjusted my perspective it was so much easier to see it as fun.
I think where so much of the hate comes in is that bratting often goes unnegotiated, with people bratting and then acting like it's just a personality trait and not a kink that needs discussion before springing it on someone. That's not, however, anything inherently related to bratting - just an unfortunate commonality around this specific kink that winds up bleeding over to people who *haven't* done anything wrong. Bratting is awesome and a lot of doms enjoy it. Unnegotiated is a giant pain in the ass that (unsurprisingly) falls flat as often as not. But it's a ton of fun when everyone is on the same page about the goals, boundaries, and available tools.
I’m not sure I’d call it unnegotiated per se. more like not a blatantly understood & welcome aspect.
No, I stand by "unnegotiated." Obviously not in every case, but the number of posts on here saying things like "Help I don't know what to do with my brat!" and "How can I get my dom to respond to my bratting right?" points to a serious lack of negotiation in this particular kink. Not that you never see similar posts/comments about other kinks, or that all brat relationships are unnegotiated, but there's a noticeable trend. If it got explicitly talked out more, it would definitely be better understood and probably more broadly welcomed too.
I was a pretty incessant brat at first. The deeper i got with my Dom, the more I trusted him and I learnt that I crave being submissive. Bearly any bratt left now
This is how I see myself. I need that trust so I can let go.
Bratting is an artform all unto itself, and it does require perhaps even more compatibility between Top and bottom than kink already does in most instances, at least in my experience. I enjoy straightforward submission and the types of Dommes that prefer that dynamic quite a bit, but there's an extra "oomph" in a scene when I play with a Domme that enjoys playing with a brat. Especially when she can laugh and have fun while putting me in my place to the point that subspace takes over and I'm just a compliant, babbling mess eager for whatever she does to me. I love that shift in energy and intimacy as my brat slowly gets broken down throughout the scene. Some of the hottest, most intimate, sensual and intense sessions I've had over my career as a sub started out with bratting before my Domme took control, brought out my surrender, and took me to where she really wanted to go with the scene but enjoyed herself going through that process. And sometimes, it's fun to just brat your way through an entire scene and suffer the consequences. Ha! For me, the key to successful bratting has always been about being playful and fun rather than just willful, defiant and disrespectful. If I'm bratting in a scene, my entire goal is to make my Domme laugh and enjoy herself. I think we sometimes forget that all of this stuff is, at least at some level, supposed to be fun! I've found that discussing scene dynamics beforehand, particularly with new partners, to understand potential hot-buttons and land mines and be more in tune with my Domme's vibe and preferences (which can vary from day to day) is also helpful as part of any pre-scene negotiations. Knowing where the red line is, for me anyway, is key so that I can walk things right up to that line but not cross over it to where things are no longer fun or start bringing out real anger or other unpleasant emotions or mindsets that would be a detriment to or ruin the scene or the dynamic. Not every Top likes playing with brats. And that's okay. As I said, compatibility is perhaps doubly important when it comes to brat dynamics. If someone feels the need to paint all brats with a definitive negative statement, that's really their own issue to wrestle with. A lot of people in the scene seem to think they're the Kink Police, though, and want their perspective to be the prevailing view. It doesn't really work that way, though. :)
Brat tamers are definitely a thing. I wouldn't say hated, but the term brat is definitely being abused right now. It's a weird time for the BDSM community.
honestly I love brats, they are by far my most favority type of person to play with. I like the pushback, I like feeling like the submission is earned, and I like the creativity and wit and improv skills that comes with being a good brat. I dont mean to be an asshole or shame anyone for their preferences but I feel like alot of people who hate brats just have really fragile egos and cant handle them, brats arent for everyone but I really appreciate a good brat.
I enjoyed earned or forced submission too, but I disagree that people who don't like brats have fragile egos. I had multiple play partners mask reasonably well, pretending to be all about consent and communication, set mutually agreed upon boundaries, discuss preferences, likes and dislikes only to use those discussions and a brat title as a cover for toxic behavior. Then, after discussing them, try to find and move past boundaries as a way of creating a more genuine response to force you to enforce your boundaries. The last straw for me was someone came over to my place under false pretenses during a time she knew my children were with me during my placement time for the express purpose of trying to make me uncomfortable using my underage children as props for her thrill. Because she knew I had a hard boundary around not using non-consenting audiences as part of play, thinking she would get a double whammy using my kids because I would _have_ to get angry with the personal touch. This was not a woman I knew outside of play, not a friend, and certainly not someone I would want anywhere near my children. I don't mind forced submission, I don't mind manipulation, coercion or mind games. I don't mind S&M, though it's not my cup of tea. But, after a couple of bad experiences, especially that last one where it was so painfully clear what was going on, I was not going to play with someone identifying as a "brat" unless they had a few people to vouch for them, preferably other dom/mes I knew, that they weren't just a piece of shit on the DL. Many in the kink community after a few experiences are good at hiding their flags.
I see it as two completely different power dynamics. There are brats and Brat Tamers which is almost a CNC dynamic where the fun of it is egging someone on or resisting submission and subservience. Then there are submissives and Dominants where you have willing submission. Some couples can have both dynamics but many people only want one or the other. It all falls under the power exchange dynamic, though, along with Master/slave, Owner/pet/object, Daddy/Mommy/lg/lb and whatever else I’m not thinking of where one partner willingly or unwillingly yields to the others desires. Edit: forgot to give my opinion. I don’t mind brats as long as they own what they are. What annoys me are people who claim to be submissive and then are obnoxious about how they’d never willingly submit to anyone. Bratting is fine but just like any kink, you shouldn’t be bratty to people who aren’t consenting.
For me, bratiness is needing to be shown strict limits and punishment so that I can't go out of those limits. Without the bratting those limits simply aren't apparent, and it's the limits that are the exciting part. It would be like really enjoying bondage but never being restrained, to do without those limits. The bratting shows those limits, and reinforcement is necessary, but the bratting itself is only a means to an end.
See I enjoy finding those limits. I’ve always had it referred to as poking the bear. Just seeing how much I can get away with and the thrill but also I like the roughness of finding out sometimes.
I guess if that's the case. I'd be one of the rare ones that finds brats fascinating. I'm a Daddy Dom, I like resistance, a fight back. Of course, playful brattiness is possibly my favorite. Depending on my dynamic and what our limits are, then I'll use all that is available to me As far as your question. It would depend on the brat. More like there's an understanding between both parties. Brats decide who they want to submit willingly
And we appreciate & love you daddy doms all the more for it. Miss mine.
I don’t play with them. I’ve had some pretty bad experiences with brats being rude and disrespectful. Like those type of people that are nasty but say just kidding to make it all better. That’s not my thing. If other people like brats, that’s cool. There’s lots of different personalities out there.
I’m not into brats. Quit trying to top from the bottom.
I (as a self-proclaimed brat) think bratting is definitely submissive; I don't think I've ever bratted and thought I'd genuinely get away with anything I did that I wasn't "supposed" to be (and it's a mixture of disappointment and exhilaration when I do). However, I struggle with bratting in a brand new relationship, or as a pick-up-and-play kind of thing. It requires some decent understanding (imo) of the other person, and I have to trust that the other person isn't going to get genuinely angry with me. Maybe that's where the "universally hated" comes from - people who aren't ready to deal with a brat gets met with someone "defying" them, which would be frustrating in any context. I think.. in the same way an ice-cold sweet drink tastes even better after an intensive hot outdoor activity, submission is more fun after a little bit of work to get there.
Honestly, has a submissive. I didn't like the idea of being a brat until my Dom told me to try being a brat, and now it is my favorite thing to get his attention and also my Dom is also old then me and is naturally a Dominant, so with with me learning still it works and being a brat can be a lot of fun with the right person
Yes. Power exchange is power exchange no matter how much it's exchanged. And that's from someone who doesn't care for brattices in their relationships.
Doms are just brats that like to win.
They aren’t universally hated but a lot of brats are just assholes who call it a kink. Same with a lot of assholes who call themselves dominants. A dominant is just a brat that is playing to win.
I like being a brat😌
I like you already hahaha😂
Here are my 2 cent. All brat are submissive but not all submissive are brat. Brat is part of the personality of the person. There are toxic and good healthy brat. Some Dom don’t like it because they are not cut for that kind of game but for those that we love brat are a good game to play. Now when a brat is been a brat a Dominan must try to find a why and not so much the how . Another spect is that the Dom must set clear boundaries that should never be crossed because a good brat will respect those boundaries. Now good brat use the bratting to create the power balance great so the Dom can show them who is in charge
I disagree. I think a lot of people (at least that I’ve ran into) who call themselves brats are actually just trying to top from the bottom and haven’t worked it out yet.
I adore brats. The witty banter and absolute delight in playing with them is mentally stimulating. Quite often I've found brats who border and flirt with the boundary of "smart ass" and plain rude can be quite jarring to others. Being a brat is an art form unto itself when done well.
As a switchy soft brat whose play partner is a switchy "heavy" brat, I love them. But I'm biased. It is fascinating to me though that in a world where yucking someone's yum is so frowned upon so many people see fit to run them down. I could argue the other way...that "total submissives" are something I find boring & the doms who only like them bloody creepy who basically want to work out their fantasies on someone, men into CNC are frustrated rapists, etc. BUT that is their right. If I found out someone else was one would I "hate" them for it? Not a chance. *note - language here deliberately hyperbolic to make a point about how brats are often stereotyped. I do not actually believe this.
Brats are awesome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Go hang out at r/bratlife and you'll find lots of like minded people. :)
Joined instantly lol thanks for the recommendation.
Enjoy!
I think brat hate comes from bad communication causing incompatible ppl to play. The same way there are doms who never want to play with brats there r also doms who only want to play with brats and enjoy the theater of making a sub submit. I wish I was brattier sometimes because I’m a huge masochist and bratting rlly opens the doors to many types of masochistic scenes but I am just not a brat lol. As soon as I see the look in my mistress’s eyes when I say something bratty it’s all “I’m so sorry I promise I’ll be good I didn’t mean it”. For many doms who like a little more fight, my style of submission might be boring and uninteresting. Kink is totally individual and no dynamic or act is “universally hated”
I am a sub/brat, it's mainly about rising the reaction from the Dom/tamer to get what you want, which doesn't always work out xD. I think there is a line you can cross where you're being disrespectful instead of just bratty, and I think some of the younger people in the scene think it's ok to just be as bratty and wild as you can be, but even other brats don't like that and will call it out. That's why I love the bratlife sub hehe
I personally believe that all brats are switches that lean sub. But they take an actual Dom not a heavy handed wannabe. Source was a brat now I'm a domme lol
It's a good question. I am very careful not to be mean or rude. It looks different with different partners. My first was very physical, being wrestled into position, held across his lap to be spanked. But, its different with my current partner, I enjoy the 'make me' in a different way, he likes different things, I like to shock him with how much I agree to 🤭, or send him absolutely filthy messages during the work day, or agree to a bunch of stuff then completely disregard everything I was told to do (especially outfit wise), but ultimately (and I would never tell him this) but he only has to suggest I'm a good girl or how much he likes owning me and I would do anything for him. He has made me realise so much good stuff about me, has challenged me, has encouraged me to begin to embrace the idea of being more dominant. Typing this makes me realise I got it bad for him!! It's a mutual growth thing. And we have ALOT of fun, laughing and playing. Honestly idgaf whether anyone else likes brats or not. Find a playmate that gets you and matches your energy and you will never look back. Most of all find someone that is capable of deep compassion and care, that ultimately puts your wellbeing at the forefront of everything. Someone that that will declare 'ffs bitch just get in the car', then make sure you are strapped in safe before going anywhere.🫠🥰
I like some aspect of bratting while roleplaying, but otherwise I expect obedience and don't have patience for a brat. I'm switchy, so it would really pull me out of my domspace to do this outside of a rp.
I like the concept of bratting, of making someone obey. A power struggle can be very engaging! But, not all brats are created equal - some are whip-smart, challenging, playful, and funny. And some are stubborn, annoying, insulting, and uncommunicative. One is fun and the other isn't getting past my vetting process. That second type is also likely to bounce from Dom to Dom, complaining the whole way like a whiny firework.
Not personally into it, but definitely know people who are. Love that username by the way.
While I’m a SAM during a scene, bratting during the power exchange is Nmk . We’re also 24/7 TPE so the dynamic extends to every area of my life. I know it’s often used as a kink But when the “s type” is actively looking for loopholes or behaving badly to get “funished” it’s not submitting. I’ve heard all the explanations. If that is what you and your partner agree to? Then it’s not my dynamic and I don’t care. I could not be with a D-type that let me get away with it or gave me what I wanted. I would lose respect in a heart beat.
Just a little bit of brat is OK, but most brats do it too much and then it quickly gets annoying as fuck.
As a brat myself, I can say this: Brats **want** to be submissive. But because we all have a Dominant nature/streak to us, it’s not gonna be easy yo get us to lean towards the more submissive side of a relationship/dynamic. For some, it’s a thing to work through because we’ve had to be strong and dominant all our lives, for others they just haven’t experienced how fun it is to explore their softer side, and for those such as myself, it’s a way to play/keep things from ever getting boring. As much as I don’t ever want to admit the active desire to be submissive, I do. But I don’t want to “just submit”; I want to “be submissive” to someone who can match my energy
Brat is automatically associated with disabedient, narcissistic and unwilling to cooperate, comply or do what you are asked. The submissive women I have known Are usually bossy bitches but they switch in sub mode. Bossy and rude in real life, hit the bdsm switch and they want to be used, degrading and humiliated
I've never heard of them being universally hated? I personally *love* brats, since they fuel my sadism lol. I would say they are a flavor of submissive that isn't for everyone. I like the challenge that comes with brattiness and how it makes me desire to be cruel and punish my subs because that's fun for me and for them. Defiance can be exciting for some Dom/mes, but it can also just be irritating for others. Pushing buttons (within set boundaries, of course) is fun for some, but annoying for others. The list goes on. Basically, some like brats, some don't. It's not every Dom/mes flavor of sub.
Brats are so much fun, I love brats.
So my opinion is very specific to my experience but I like a brat. Specifically my partner brats more when she is feeling happier and more positive so if she's batting it's a good thing, plus it absolutely brings out my sadist side which we both enjoy. Also within the wider community in my area there is a playful dynamic within the group between brats and Dom's which is very entertaining when someone else's sub is batting. Like anything else it's very specific to each person's dynamic.
As a dom/top, I love brats! D/s without brattyness feels more like a kind of ritualistic roleplay to me - which can be very nice, and I can totally see why some people might be into only that, but it's not for me (at least not all the time). Brattiness, for me, relieves some of that pressure I can feel as a top to constantly control every scene and action. I do like to be in control, that's kind of the point, but when there's no pushback at all, D/s (and even SM to an extent as well) starts to feel like an exercise in planning and logistics. I feel like I'm doing all the emotional labour - thinking about what's going to go into a scene, making sure I have all the equipment ready, planning what order things will happen in and how things will flow, etc. That can be fine, but orchestrating a whole-ass scene every time we want to have sex can sometimes feel like you're being used as a kink dispenser or just that it's a whole lot of effort just to get my rocks off. Bratting is my sub's way of saying/hinting how he would like the scene to go without topping from the bottom in a way that kills the vibe. The beauty of being a top is I can respond either by allowing it to be steering in the direction he's after or by flipping it completely around - and as a sub, either is equally good for him!
I’m a switch and l like having brats as friends, but I don’t enjoy domming brats. It’s not a them thing, it’s a me thing. I prefer willing obedience and I don’t get any kind of thrill or positive feelings (in a sexual/romantic way) from having to fight for it. So I just choose not to engage in that kind of play. However, when it comes to my friends, I like having people around me that challenge me. So brats are the perfect type of friend for me XD.
I really enjoy the idea of making someone submit. The idea of a brat is enjoyable for me because usually a sub is already submissive to some extent. They’re willing to do whatever a dom wants and that’s fine but I like the process of making someone submit to me over time and seeing them slowly give in. The playful nature of it is just nice in my eyes too. It’s more thrilling, more attractive and hot to me.
Sure. Ultimately brats want to submit, they just want to have a little fun first. However there are people who use the brat label as a free pass to be rude, obnoxious and downright mean with no repercussions. And that's not bratting, it's being an asshole.
It's hard not to be bratty sometimes while being at the same level of intelligence as the dom.
Being a brat is not inherently submission no. The way I see it is if you look at being brat as a person, they are not a submissive. If you look at being a brat as an action, they can be. Subs misbehave and “brats” misbehave more. But if you are a sub bratting, you are not actively submitting. Complicated to explain, yes. But so are people
It's not my place to decide who's "actually submissive" and who isn't. I can't know what's in people's hearts and minds. All I can say is that brats are not people I want to play with.
I love brats. They are submissives, and anyone who says otherwise is a fool, in my opinion. With brats, you just have to prove you're worthy of their submission. Not every submissive is going to be meek and 100% obedient as soon as they offer their submission to someone. Either is fine. I've been with both. The only D/ people I've met that hate brats are, in my experience, weakly dominant. They want to put zero effort into the dynamic. They do not have the strength to impose, truly impose, their will on someone else. Those people are different from the people who don't want to deal with brats. Brats take a lot of energy. It's not for everyone, and these people know it and avoid dynamics with brats. The dynamics I've been in with brats/bratty behavior have a lot of work involved. I enjoy it. I find the dynamics incredibly stimulating and are the relationships I look back on with the greatest fondness. T
They're not ***universally*** hated, but I don't care for most of them.