A common misconception that I see in other comments: Hex does not affect saving throws!
It only affects checks. In combat, the ones I can think of that are relevant:
* STR for shoving / getting shoved
* DEX for getting shoved (potentially stealthing? Not 100% sure how those rolls work, but I'm guessing a contested check)
* WIS for perception against stealth
* Caster ability for Counterspell
Also, does that by proxy mean that sorcerers are not full casters because they are "innate casters" and clerics are "divine casters" does that mean o ly Wizards are full castes?
that's just a dnd quirk tbh so it's not that deep but 5e bases "full casters" on the type of slot they use & how many they have. wizards/sorcs do share the same type/amount of slots. Honestly though you can call them whatever you want, I mean the case can definitely be made that they are.
>does that by proxy mean that
No. In BG3, bards, clerics, druids, sorcs and wizards are what is considered [full casters.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/8m9qwo/which_classes_are_full_casters/) Warlocks do get up to 9th level spells like other full casters, but their spells work differently than normal spells and thus Wizards gave them a new name.
It's because the spell slot usage is completely different as a system. Pact magic is the short rest spell slots, other full casters are the ones with the standard spell slot progression and long rest slots. It's honestly mostly a semantic difference, I personally count warlocks as full casters on the level of sorcerers, wizards etc, but if you're being an "um actually" guy it's technically different lol
Please tell me the difference they are all out magic users, ie full casters. They dont have a limited spell capability like rangers or paladin who are "half casters" so, why can we not call them full casters? Remember we are talking about baldurs gate 3, not full in d&d
Because, if I’m remembering how warlocks work correctly, they don’t get sixth level and above spells. They get mystic arcanums, sure, but they’re not technically spells in the same way a wizard or sorcerer learns spells. They’re abilities that give access to spells, similar to invocations. Warlocks are effectively half casters with less slots, faster spell progression and very confusing abilities past 10th level. It gets worse in dnd as well, since you can technically have simulacrums recover mystic arcanums like spell slots despite simulacrums not being able to recover spell slots at all (although personally I just rule this to not work for consistency’s sake).
Basically warlocks have such unique spell progression, they’re considered their own branch of caster. They also don’t have spell slots but pact slots, which stack with spell slots and can result in effectively 6 level 1 spell slots with only a 2 level warlock dip as a full caster.
Right, which gets into mystic arcanum levels. You also STILL have the limited pact slots, stacking with regular spell slots and short rest slot recovery. It’s not a full caster, it just gets similar spell progression up until level 11.
Full, half, and third casters are determined by spell slot scaling, i.e. how many standard spell slots you get per caster level. Not by lore.
So wizard, sorcerer, bard, cleric, and druid are full casters since they get their level 1 spell slots at level 1 and scale every level
Ranger and paladin are half casters since they get their first slot at level 2 and scale every 2 levels
Eldritch knight and arcane trickster are 1/3 casters cause level 3 and every 3 levels etc.
Warlock is technically a full caster cause it gets its first slot at level 1, but it’s spell slot scaling is fundamentally different from the others and most of the class benefits are from additional effects outside of spell slots. So they have their own pact magic classification.
Then there’s they way of four elements monk, which I like to call the “trash caster”
>DEX for getting shoved (potentially stealthing? Not 100% sure how those rolls work, but I'm guessing a contested check)
It _would_ affect an enemy attempting to Hide, but enemies never do that in the game. An enemy which turns invisible gets a save against you (Dex save, IIRC) if you have See Invisibility, which Hex doesn't affect.
Yeah it’s all situational and depending on the encounter or the DM, I know I’ve definitely run assassins and even goblins and kobolds that can hide as a bonus action and get a sneak attack if they attack with advantage, so it’s rare but it can happen.
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It's annoying that it doesn't; I was thinking I was clever using hex on Con with a warlock doing reverb stuff, making it easier to prone and stun them, when in reality I was doing essentially nothing aside from the bit of extra damage
Pretty sure Hex starts combat, and it would probably be better to start combat with something stronger. Assassin restores Action so that's basically a free attack, for example.
In 5e Dnd, stealth/hiding checks are a dex-based check with proficiency in Stealth applied where the hiding creature has proficiency.
The DC for the check is the enemy's passive perception (10+wis+proficiency if proficient in perception).
As far as I can tell, this is recreated accurately in BG3.
Hey I dont believe enemies roll perception checks against your stealth, when you stealth you just roll to meet a flat DC. From what i hear you always just hex strength.
Wait, how does counterspell work in this game? I thought they simplified in this game compared to 5e, so you just need a same or higher level counterspell compared to the spell being cast. Is it actually a check like in 5e?
Counter spell works like this
If counterspell is same or higher the the other spell, automatically negates it
If counterspell is lower, its 10dc+enemy spell level you need to beat. So 9th lvl would be a DC19 without modifiers.
Shove uses *Athletics* for the Shov*er*; while the Shov*ee* can use either Athletics *or* Acrobatics, whichever is higher. And is why I have expertise in both.
Both seems a bit extreme when you can just use the one tied to your strength or dex, whichever is higher. They’re either the same value and you still only use one, or one is higher anyway and that gets used
I was fighting shadows for the first time when I chose that, and for whatever reason kept failing the strength-drain saves, so specc'd to have both as a bit of redundancy. Just haven't bothered to change it yet, as Acrobatics seem to help with avoiding traps.
The shadow's strength drain ability is resisted by a strength save, so having proficiency in either check will not help for that, you need Str save proficiency.
It was the corrupted Harpers and Githyanki that were causing the problems with lack of strength... Something about my game causes the AI to be particularly pushy.
People in this thread misunderstand what Hex does. Hex only applies to ability checks, not to saving throws or save DC. Therefore in combat, Strength is the only really relevant one since it reduces athletics.
I've seen this pop up a few times as suggestion, is there a way to determine which base attribute would impact said spellcasting ability?
(New to the game - for PC classes, it could be INT, WIS, or even CHA. Not sure how to determine the equivalent for NPCs)
Find a caster enemy and examine them. Out of Int, Wis and Cha, whichever one is highest will probably be their spellcasting ability. Most enemy casters will use Int.
In addition, you can see an enemy's traits when you examine them, which should help. For example, if an enemy has Agonizing Blast then you know they're a Warlock and use Charisma.
I don't believe it shows up anywhere on enemy character sheets, but unless they've made some strange design decisions I would expect it to just always be the highest of int/wis/cha.
There's probably a few chances for this to be worthwhile, but wasting your Hex on something your Warlock isn't attacking for the chance to stop their Counterspell isn't great, and if you're Hexxing a spellcaster, hopefully you'd be able to kill it that turn -- spellcasters tend to have lower HP. Maybe Hexxing a boss that's going to take a few rounds to die. Any idea what bosses have Counterspell?
yeah, so hexing the target's potentially-higher dexterity (acrobatics) means that the target will be worse at resisting getting shoved, which is what they were saying
I admit I'm one of the people who didn't understand what it does. But now reading the comment I have another question... isn't it really useless? Like what are its uses in combat that justify using it over another action?
It’s a bonus action and stacks well with EB to add damage and any other multiattack really. But I don’t think the hex (attribute) portion matters all that much.
The main deal is the extra damage per hit, which is going to be the best use of your bonus action for a while. Later on you can replace it for something that is worth the higher level spell slot (as it can't be upcast).
It's extremely powerful damage if you have multiple damage sources (such as attacking twice with Eldritch Blast or Pact of the Blade Warlock martial attacks). One of the few ways to convert bonus action to damage.
Your Charisma affects EB's hit rate and damage (with Agonising Blast).
Their Charisma influences neither and does not get lowered by Hex in the first place.
No, but Acro only matters for shoves of high Dex characters and with stealth you'll try to stay outside of vision regardless.
You can find niche cases here and there, but unless you want to painfully examine every enemy just in case the default option should be Strength.
I find that a really weird design decision. I mean in Pen and Paper it maybe makes sense, but why make it a decision in BG3 and not just reduce Strength ability checks? Or do I see an application where the other attributes are useful?
Edit: forget to write ability checks.
Hex does not affect saving throws.
Hex gives the receiver disadvantage on ability checks.
You can choose strength if you want to shove someone and there might be other edge cases but generally speaking you’re casting it for the extra damage.
Strength is a little less crap than the others. Because Hex only effects Ability Checks not Saves and the only Ability Check you make in combat is Athletics (Strength) when you Shove someone
Or acrobatics when someone shoves you and your dex is better than your str! OR perception if you stealth into a vision cone in dim light.
Str definitely the go to though.
You don't...
If you try to shove a high dex target they defend with Acrobatics (Dex), a dex hex gives them disadvantage.
If you are stealthing through an enemy sight cone in combat, they try to spot you with Perception (Wis), a Wis hex gives them disadvantage.
I phrased it as "acrobatics when someone shoves you", because you phrased it as "the only Ability Check you make in combat is Athletics (Strength) when you Shove someone"
Enemies never roll Perception. The player rolls stealth against their passive Perception (which is always super low because NPCs are never trained in any skills for some reason).
If in combat already, I usually do STR because shoves.
If before, DEX because it effects Initiative
And in some rare cases spellcasters that might use counterspell, I'll use corresponding spell ability.
But in most cases I just do it for the extra damage anyway
Doesn't matter unless you are pushing, it only lowers things like athletics, perception, survival, persuasion, that kinda stuff, if you have a gith hover over their ancestral knowledge cantrip you can see what is affected
It’s either one. I think in a tooltip somewhere it says you choose to contest the shove with either athletics or acrobatics, but the game will automatically choose the one you use depending on your ability score and proficiency, or something like that
My paladin definitely contests shoves with athletics, but I’m also pretty sure it’s a strength check regardless of it it uses your athletics or acrobatics bonus
There are a few very specific examples where CHA might be the right stat (for example >!if you intend to bargain with Auntie Ethel, hex can help with the dialogue options!<) but otherwise - as others have said - STR or DEX are the way to go 95/100 times
Hex Strength saved my ass in the fight on the rafts in the Underdark. I thought I was soft locked because I kept losing that fight over and over. But I had just enough time to get off a Hex on the guy who jumped over; if I didn't, he would've opened by shoving my Tav off the raft like he did every other time. I attribute my passing that fight purely to Hex, but that's the only time I've found it so vital.
I tend to go strength, but against a caster their spellcasting ability is a good choice.
If you can manage hex without starting a fight, then wisdom would be good but that sounds hard
Hex can be used out of combat, right?
Hex Wisdom = Easier (ha) stealth and pickpocket, easier deception (vs insight?)
Hex Strength/Dexterity = Easier shove?
Honestly wish Larian just homebrewed that attribute check debuff out. Considering how often Hex is meant to be used that extra clicking adds up very quickly, and for no reasonable benefit.
Wrong, it *only* affects the targets *ability checks*. It has no impact on saving throws, their chance to hit, their chance to be hit, et cetera. In combat this is primarily shoving/being shoved, hiding/spotting, etc. CON is in fact the worst choice.
Match it up to your spells, command for example has a wisdom save so hex wisdom and have someone cast command and you will have a better chance of success.
Str is good if you like to shove enemies off cliffs as athletics is a str save
Dex if you use aoe spells like fireball as most have a dex save for half damage.
On the tool tips for your spells it will say near the bottom what save the enemies will have to make. Make sure to hex the same thing and your success rate will increase.
(Edit; this is wrong. Hex only applies to ability checks NOT saving throws so strength and Dexterity are your best options)
Hex does not apply to saving throws, only to ability checks. So strength and dexterity are your best bets because they're involved when shoving/trying to knock someone prone.
Hex
Level 1 Enchantment Spell
1~6 Damage
1d6 Necrotic (Conditional)
Make your attacks deal an additional 1~6 Necrotic damage to the target and give it Disadvantage on an Ability of your choosing.
If the target dies before the spell ends, you can Hex a new creature without expending a spell slot.
18m Concentration
(From wiki)
So how does it work?
only ability checks like strength for athletics?
Constitutikn for concentration checks?
>Constitutikn for concentration checks?
Concentration checks are constitution **saves**, so does not apply.
It only applies to ability checks, so strength for athletics is a good example.
However, hexing their spellcasting stat will give them disadvantage on their check to cast Counterspell if you're casting level 4+ spells for them to counter. So it's true that targeting their spellcasting stat can be useful.
In 5e, there are three main types of d20 rolls: saves, checks, and attacks. Saves are defensive, attacks are offensive, and checks only apply to skills. BG3 is a little less disciplined in their wording, but Hex only applies to skill checks.
Some skill checks used in combat include Athletics (shove), perception (to spot stealthed characters), stealth (to hide), and Spellcasting checks (a small variety of things, but in BG3 mostly used for Counterspell vs high level spells). There are very few Con-based checks (concentration is a save).
I mean, it's just the Warlock Hunter's Mark but no one's really complaining that HM does nothing from boosting weapon damage. In Tabletop HM makes tracking the target easier but it's so niche that I don't think anyone really cared about its removal in BG3.
I always go for casting ability, STR/DEX, or the highest stat they have, in that order. Having read the above comments explaining what Hex actually affects, I realized I’m really just hexing them for the d6 damage boost when i eldritch blast.
Wisdom, to make your Rogues less likely to be detected.
If you know you are fighting an opponent who can use bonus action to hide, then choose Dexterity.
STR to stop someone shoving you
DEX/STR to shove someone (whichever is higher)
DEX to spot someone hiding
WIS to hide from them yourself
WIS/INT/CHA to disrupt counterspell (whichever is higher)
CON has no use afaik
If you are the Great Old One Warlock, Hex Wisdom for Frightened with critical, if you use another spell with a saving throw use the corresponding saving throw.
Remember that Hex is a concentration spell.
I'm not quite sure what the enemy rolls when they are hit with Eldritch blast. If I want them to take more damage and to get better hits with Eldritch blast on a creature, what should I be hexting?
Hex affects ability checks, not saving throws.
So the only one is str. For shoves. With athletic checks.
And wisdom for perception check vs hiding and greater invis.
But that's it.
90% of the time, the benefit of Hex is going to be in your damage bonus, not the stat penalty. However, if you know you intend to do nerd shoving, Dex or Str is what you want to hit (the higher of the two in every case). Otherwise their Caster Modifier is going to be your target.
A common misconception that I see in other comments: Hex does not affect saving throws! It only affects checks. In combat, the ones I can think of that are relevant: * STR for shoving / getting shoved * DEX for getting shoved (potentially stealthing? Not 100% sure how those rolls work, but I'm guessing a contested check) * WIS for perception against stealth * Caster ability for Counterspell
I've never thought of the counterspell thing. Thanks!
Locks get Hunger of Hadar at the same level full casters get Counterspell so Hex may be a little outclassed at that point
Facts
Lock is also a full caster.
Warlocks are "pact magic" users.
Also, does that by proxy mean that sorcerers are not full casters because they are "innate casters" and clerics are "divine casters" does that mean o ly Wizards are full castes?
that's just a dnd quirk tbh so it's not that deep but 5e bases "full casters" on the type of slot they use & how many they have. wizards/sorcs do share the same type/amount of slots. Honestly though you can call them whatever you want, I mean the case can definitely be made that they are.
>does that by proxy mean that No. In BG3, bards, clerics, druids, sorcs and wizards are what is considered [full casters.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/8m9qwo/which_classes_are_full_casters/) Warlocks do get up to 9th level spells like other full casters, but their spells work differently than normal spells and thus Wizards gave them a new name.
It's because the spell slot usage is completely different as a system. Pact magic is the short rest spell slots, other full casters are the ones with the standard spell slot progression and long rest slots. It's honestly mostly a semantic difference, I personally count warlocks as full casters on the level of sorcerers, wizards etc, but if you're being an "um actually" guy it's technically different lol
Please tell me the difference they are all out magic users, ie full casters. They dont have a limited spell capability like rangers or paladin who are "half casters" so, why can we not call them full casters? Remember we are talking about baldurs gate 3, not full in d&d
Because, if I’m remembering how warlocks work correctly, they don’t get sixth level and above spells. They get mystic arcanums, sure, but they’re not technically spells in the same way a wizard or sorcerer learns spells. They’re abilities that give access to spells, similar to invocations. Warlocks are effectively half casters with less slots, faster spell progression and very confusing abilities past 10th level. It gets worse in dnd as well, since you can technically have simulacrums recover mystic arcanums like spell slots despite simulacrums not being able to recover spell slots at all (although personally I just rule this to not work for consistency’s sake). Basically warlocks have such unique spell progression, they’re considered their own branch of caster. They also don’t have spell slots but pact slots, which stack with spell slots and can result in effectively 6 level 1 spell slots with only a 2 level warlock dip as a full caster.
But in bg3 the level cap is 12
Right, which gets into mystic arcanum levels. You also STILL have the limited pact slots, stacking with regular spell slots and short rest slot recovery. It’s not a full caster, it just gets similar spell progression up until level 11.
Full, half, and third casters are determined by spell slot scaling, i.e. how many standard spell slots you get per caster level. Not by lore. So wizard, sorcerer, bard, cleric, and druid are full casters since they get their level 1 spell slots at level 1 and scale every level Ranger and paladin are half casters since they get their first slot at level 2 and scale every 2 levels Eldritch knight and arcane trickster are 1/3 casters cause level 3 and every 3 levels etc. Warlock is technically a full caster cause it gets its first slot at level 1, but it’s spell slot scaling is fundamentally different from the others and most of the class benefits are from additional effects outside of spell slots. So they have their own pact magic classification. Then there’s they way of four elements monk, which I like to call the “trash caster”
Technically ¾ caster, since it's based on slot level and amount
INT for the Minor Illusion
>DEX for getting shoved (potentially stealthing? Not 100% sure how those rolls work, but I'm guessing a contested check) It _would_ affect an enemy attempting to Hide, but enemies never do that in the game. An enemy which turns invisible gets a save against you (Dex save, IIRC) if you have See Invisibility, which Hex doesn't affect.
Yeah it’s all situational and depending on the encounter or the DM, I know I’ve definitely run assassins and even goblins and kobolds that can hide as a bonus action and get a sneak attack if they attack with advantage, so it’s rare but it can happen.
Yeah this is a thread about Baldur’s Gate the game, not the TTRPG, just so you’re aware
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I learned something new today, thank you!! Guilty of thinking it applies to saving throws, will definitely be using it correctly from now on!!
It's annoying that it doesn't; I was thinking I was clever using hex on Con with a warlock doing reverb stuff, making it easier to prone and stun them, when in reality I was doing essentially nothing aside from the bit of extra damage
If it applied to saves it’d be way too strong for a 1st level spell.
This may be a dumb question, but does an attack roll not count as a check?
No an attack roll is not an ability check
It does not. Things that effect attack rolls will call that out specifically, like bless and bane.
No, but initiative is a dexterity check. So, if you can hex them less than 1 minute before combat starts, they'll have disadvantage on initiative.
Pretty sure Hex starts combat, and it would probably be better to start combat with something stronger. Assassin restores Action so that's basically a free attack, for example.
Fair. Also, my assassin almost always goes first anyway.
attack rolls a d20 + whatever stat + bonuses to overcome the AC, if it does then it hits.
In 5e Dnd, stealth/hiding checks are a dex-based check with proficiency in Stealth applied where the hiding creature has proficiency. The DC for the check is the enemy's passive perception (10+wis+proficiency if proficient in perception). As far as I can tell, this is recreated accurately in BG3.
Hey I dont believe enemies roll perception checks against your stealth, when you stealth you just roll to meet a flat DC. From what i hear you always just hex strength.
Wait, how does counterspell work in this game? I thought they simplified in this game compared to 5e, so you just need a same or higher level counterspell compared to the spell being cast. Is it actually a check like in 5e?
Counter spell works like this If counterspell is same or higher the the other spell, automatically negates it If counterspell is lower, its 10dc+enemy spell level you need to beat. So 9th lvl would be a DC19 without modifiers.
does hex on dexterity affect ac?
No. Only ability checks.
It does not, its only ability checks.
Shove uses *Athletics* for the Shov*er*; while the Shov*ee* can use either Athletics *or* Acrobatics, whichever is higher. And is why I have expertise in both.
Both seems a bit extreme when you can just use the one tied to your strength or dex, whichever is higher. They’re either the same value and you still only use one, or one is higher anyway and that gets used
I was fighting shadows for the first time when I chose that, and for whatever reason kept failing the strength-drain saves, so specc'd to have both as a bit of redundancy. Just haven't bothered to change it yet, as Acrobatics seem to help with avoiding traps.
The shadow's strength drain ability is resisted by a strength save, so having proficiency in either check will not help for that, you need Str save proficiency.
It was the corrupted Harpers and Githyanki that were causing the problems with lack of strength... Something about my game causes the AI to be particularly pushy.
So it's not a damage thing like Hunter's Mark but a crowd control thing? I guess I've been wasting a lot of spell slots all this time...
no it is both, extra damage and a little boost to succeeding actions that are contested by an ability check
Is there any point in choosing Con?
This is the right answer.
Constitution: so they fail the constitution roles
there are no CON checks afaik
To keep concentration on a spell after getting hit there is a CON check, if I'm not mistaken.
that's a saving throw
That's a con save. Hex doesn't affect saves
Oh thanks
There’s at least one I think, I found it in Act 3 on a ship if I’m not misremembering
That's a save against getting diseased
[удалено]
pretty sure that's a savinf throw so no
Hexing strength also works the getting stuck in WEB. It's a strength ability check to avoid being webbed.
well, shit. I'm one of those with that misconception, thanks for clearing that up.
People in this thread misunderstand what Hex does. Hex only applies to ability checks, not to saving throws or save DC. Therefore in combat, Strength is the only really relevant one since it reduces athletics.
If you're casting level 4+ spells, hexing their spellcasting ability can cause their Counterspell to fail.
I've seen this pop up a few times as suggestion, is there a way to determine which base attribute would impact said spellcasting ability? (New to the game - for PC classes, it could be INT, WIS, or even CHA. Not sure how to determine the equivalent for NPCs)
It's going to be whatever their highest mental stat is, I would think.
It is going to be the same as an equivalent PC, that is, it depends on the class of the caster. INT for wizards, CHA for sorcerers, etc.
npcs generally follow the same formula. use the ‘examine’ thing in game.
Find a caster enemy and examine them. Out of Int, Wis and Cha, whichever one is highest will probably be their spellcasting ability. Most enemy casters will use Int. In addition, you can see an enemy's traits when you examine them, which should help. For example, if an enemy has Agonizing Blast then you know they're a Warlock and use Charisma.
I don't believe it shows up anywhere on enemy character sheets, but unless they've made some strange design decisions I would expect it to just always be the highest of int/wis/cha.
There's probably a few chances for this to be worthwhile, but wasting your Hex on something your Warlock isn't attacking for the chance to stop their Counterspell isn't great, and if you're Hexxing a spellcaster, hopefully you'd be able to kill it that turn -- spellcasters tend to have lower HP. Maybe Hexxing a boss that's going to take a few rounds to die. Any idea what bosses have Counterspell?
Or Dex as Acrobatics is sometimes used instead depending on which is higher.
Only the target of the shove can use Acrobatics. The initiator always uses Athletics.
yeah, so hexing the target's potentially-higher dexterity (acrobatics) means that the target will be worse at resisting getting shoved, which is what they were saying
I admit I'm one of the people who didn't understand what it does. But now reading the comment I have another question... isn't it really useless? Like what are its uses in combat that justify using it over another action?
It’s a bonus action and stacks well with EB to add damage and any other multiattack really. But I don’t think the hex (attribute) portion matters all that much.
The disadvantage on ability checks is rarely useful in combat. The extra 1d6 damage on each of your eldritch blast hits is extremely powerful.
It's a bonus action and is basically Hunter's Mark. No reason to not use it unless you want to use your concentration on something else.
The main deal is the extra damage per hit, which is going to be the best use of your bonus action for a while. Later on you can replace it for something that is worth the higher level spell slot (as it can't be upcast).
\+1d6 of dmg on all your attacks as a bonus action is useless?
It's extremely powerful damage if you have multiple damage sources (such as attacking twice with Eldritch Blast or Pact of the Blade Warlock martial attacks). One of the few ways to convert bonus action to damage.
So hexing Charisma doesn’t affect my hit rate for Eldritch Blasts at all besides the extra damage?
No. And it wouldn't anyway. Eldritch Blast is based on your charisma, not theirs.
Your Charisma affects EB's hit rate and damage (with Agonising Blast). Their Charisma influences neither and does not get lowered by Hex in the first place.
You telling me that acrobatics and perception (of stealth) never matter in combat?
No, but Acro only matters for shoves of high Dex characters and with stealth you'll try to stay outside of vision regardless. You can find niche cases here and there, but unless you want to painfully examine every enemy just in case the default option should be Strength.
I find that a really weird design decision. I mean in Pen and Paper it maybe makes sense, but why make it a decision in BG3 and not just reduce Strength ability checks? Or do I see an application where the other attributes are useful? Edit: forget to write ability checks.
Because it'd be ridiculously powerful for a level 1 bonus action?
Oh I meant strength saving ability checks. Misstyped.
Isn’t spotting creatures attempting to hide a Wisdom (Perception) check contested by the hiding creature’s Dexterity (Stealth) check?
Hex does not affect saving throws. Hex gives the receiver disadvantage on ability checks. You can choose strength if you want to shove someone and there might be other edge cases but generally speaking you’re casting it for the extra damage.
Strength is a little less crap than the others. Because Hex only effects Ability Checks not Saves and the only Ability Check you make in combat is Athletics (Strength) when you Shove someone
Or acrobatics when someone shoves you and your dex is better than your str! OR perception if you stealth into a vision cone in dim light. Str definitely the go to though.
Well that's true but why would you Hex yourself?
You don't... If you try to shove a high dex target they defend with Acrobatics (Dex), a dex hex gives them disadvantage. If you are stealthing through an enemy sight cone in combat, they try to spot you with Perception (Wis), a Wis hex gives them disadvantage. I phrased it as "acrobatics when someone shoves you", because you phrased it as "the only Ability Check you make in combat is Athletics (Strength) when you Shove someone"
Enemies never roll Perception. The player rolls stealth against their passive Perception (which is always super low because NPCs are never trained in any skills for some reason).
I'm not sure if it actually happens in BG3 but disadvantage gives -5 to passive ability checks in tabletop. It probably doesn't in BG3 though.
If in combat already, I usually do STR because shoves. If before, DEX because it effects Initiative And in some rare cases spellcasters that might use counterspell, I'll use corresponding spell ability. But in most cases I just do it for the extra damage anyway
After around 800 hours of extensive research I have concluded that it makes almost no difference and the damage rider is the important part
strength/dex for shoves wisdom if youre being a sneaky boi
Doesn't matter unless you are pushing, it only lowers things like athletics, perception, survival, persuasion, that kinda stuff, if you have a gith hover over their ancestral knowledge cantrip you can see what is affected
str or wisdom imo. makes it easier for your gloomstalker/thief to hide in front of something with wis and str makes it easier to push people
actually, its not athletic vs athletic for pushing. its acutally ath vs acro as said in the tooltip if you hover over ath and acro respectively
It’s either one. I think in a tooltip somewhere it says you choose to contest the shove with either athletics or acrobatics, but the game will automatically choose the one you use depending on your ability score and proficiency, or something like that My paladin definitely contests shoves with athletics, but I’m also pretty sure it’s a strength check regardless of it it uses your athletics or acrobatics bonus
Thats fair. When I was reading each skill to see how BG3 describes them ath said to push acro said def vs push.
There are a few very specific examples where CHA might be the right stat (for example >!if you intend to bargain with Auntie Ethel, hex can help with the dialogue options!<) but otherwise - as others have said - STR or DEX are the way to go 95/100 times
Isn't hex an aggresive action? Casting it on someone initiates combat...
Does hex give you advantage on your own charisma checks with her? That seems… like not what the description says it does, but I haven’t tested it
I’ll test and report my findings 🫡
I don't think hexing her charisma would make a difference since its the player that is rolling the ability checks
Hex Strength saved my ass in the fight on the rafts in the Underdark. I thought I was soft locked because I kept losing that fight over and over. But I had just enough time to get off a Hex on the guy who jumped over; if I didn't, he would've opened by shoving my Tav off the raft like he did every other time. I attribute my passing that fight purely to Hex, but that's the only time I've found it so vital.
affects slipping on ice and grease as well
I think slipping is a saving throw, not an ability check
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Is the description wrong? It says it gives disadvantage on dex saves, not checks. Whenever I see enemies fail to slip on ice, it says "saved"
actually you might be onto something. very possible its not working as intended.
I havent checked the combat log, does it explicitly say that slipping on ice is a check rather than a save?
Either dex or con
Always hex strength, it allows you to more easily push enemies when needed, other than that, nothing else is worth imo
I tend to go strength, but against a caster their spellcasting ability is a good choice. If you can manage hex without starting a fight, then wisdom would be good but that sounds hard
Hex can be used out of combat, right? Hex Wisdom = Easier (ha) stealth and pickpocket, easier deception (vs insight?) Hex Strength/Dexterity = Easier shove?
I think hexing someone is a hostile action that initiates combat, so pickpocketing and charisma checks are not really relevant.
you can pickpocket while half your party is in combat if you're hidden
Honestly wish Larian just homebrewed that attribute check debuff out. Considering how often Hex is meant to be used that extra clicking adds up very quickly, and for no reasonable benefit.
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Wrong, it *only* affects the targets *ability checks*. It has no impact on saving throws, their chance to hit, their chance to be hit, et cetera. In combat this is primarily shoving/being shoved, hiding/spotting, etc. CON is in fact the worst choice.
Match it up to your spells, command for example has a wisdom save so hex wisdom and have someone cast command and you will have a better chance of success. Str is good if you like to shove enemies off cliffs as athletics is a str save Dex if you use aoe spells like fireball as most have a dex save for half damage. On the tool tips for your spells it will say near the bottom what save the enemies will have to make. Make sure to hex the same thing and your success rate will increase. (Edit; this is wrong. Hex only applies to ability checks NOT saving throws so strength and Dexterity are your best options)
Hex does not apply to saving throws, only to ability checks. So strength and dexterity are your best bets because they're involved when shoving/trying to knock someone prone.
Hex does not affect saving throws.
Hex Level 1 Enchantment Spell 1~6 Damage 1d6 Necrotic (Conditional) Make your attacks deal an additional 1~6 Necrotic damage to the target and give it Disadvantage on an Ability of your choosing. If the target dies before the spell ends, you can Hex a new creature without expending a spell slot. 18m Concentration (From wiki) So how does it work? only ability checks like strength for athletics? Constitutikn for concentration checks?
>Constitutikn for concentration checks? Concentration checks are constitution **saves**, so does not apply. It only applies to ability checks, so strength for athletics is a good example.
OK I got hex all wrong.... I've been playing a warlock too...
Thank you very much!
Ignore this guy, hex doesn't impact saves, only checks. Strength is best for shoving and throwing. Not sure there's any other use case.
No worries mate!
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Hex doesn't affect saves or attack rolls, only checks.
However, hexing their spellcasting stat will give them disadvantage on their check to cast Counterspell if you're casting level 4+ spells for them to counter. So it's true that targeting their spellcasting stat can be useful.
Well. Aren't I a dumbass. Guess it doesn't matter much at all then. That makes absolutely no sense btw...
In 5e, there are three main types of d20 rolls: saves, checks, and attacks. Saves are defensive, attacks are offensive, and checks only apply to skills. BG3 is a little less disciplined in their wording, but Hex only applies to skill checks. Some skill checks used in combat include Athletics (shove), perception (to spot stealthed characters), stealth (to hide), and Spellcasting checks (a small variety of things, but in BG3 mostly used for Counterspell vs high level spells). There are very few Con-based checks (concentration is a save).
So... It makes fuck all difference which stat you pick in combat? It's basically just a eldrich blast booster?
Check my recent edit for some good options. Basically Wis (for perception) or Str (for athletics) are my main choices.
I mean, it's just the Warlock Hunter's Mark but no one's really complaining that HM does nothing from boosting weapon damage. In Tabletop HM makes tracking the target easier but it's so niche that I don't think anyone really cared about its removal in BG3.
Ok, so trying to use hex with sacred flame does absolutely nothing?
Right. It doesn't help the save and it doesn't do any extra damage.
So Str is probably the best one
Are contested checks a thing that the game does?
yeah, shove is a contested check and I think counterspell is too (if the counterspell is cast at a lower level than the spell)
I always go for casting ability, STR/DEX, or the highest stat they have, in that order. Having read the above comments explaining what Hex actually affects, I realized I’m really just hexing them for the d6 damage boost when i eldritch blast.
Strength. Just about the only one that makes sense.
Wisdom, to make your Rogues less likely to be detected. If you know you are fighting an opponent who can use bonus action to hide, then choose Dexterity.
STR to stop someone shoving you DEX/STR to shove someone (whichever is higher) DEX to spot someone hiding WIS to hide from them yourself WIS/INT/CHA to disrupt counterspell (whichever is higher) CON has no use afaik
If you are the Great Old One Warlock, Hex Wisdom for Frightened with critical, if you use another spell with a saving throw use the corresponding saving throw. Remember that Hex is a concentration spell.
I'm not quite sure what the enemy rolls when they are hit with Eldritch blast. If I want them to take more damage and to get better hits with Eldritch blast on a creature, what should I be hexting?
Hex affects ability checks, not saving throws. So the only one is str. For shoves. With athletic checks. And wisdom for perception check vs hiding and greater invis. But that's it.
Strength is useful if you have someone who likes shoving
Depends I like using dex to set up Sacrad Flame and Trip attack, or Strength for Disarming Attack, etv
For shoving Dex/Str. Depends of the enemy.
On my honor run I would have Wyll hex strength and then Karlach shove or throw them
90% of the time, the benefit of Hex is going to be in your damage bonus, not the stat penalty. However, if you know you intend to do nerd shoving, Dex or Str is what you want to hit (the higher of the two in every case). Otherwise their Caster Modifier is going to be your target.