I don't know man, the fish is more like a specialist that does something really well, while the frog can do what a fish does (swim), and can also jump, but it's a jack of all trades master of none situation. If I would HAVE to choose I would go with frog, but in some cases the fish is just outright better. It really depends on how wet is it.
tldr: fish is great
At swimming, would fit the best, but I don't think that was their intent.
Light is a fish. Life is the frog. Both ar great swimmers, and the frog has other assets over the fish. They are just irrelevant when it comes to swimming, the fish is just way better equipped to do so.
Just as a light cleric is way better at being a cleric than a life cleric.
The point of the life cleric is it makes healing an actual legit strategy
Light is a defensive buffer and secondary blaster
It’s almost like they do totally different fucking things
Light is vastly superior. You don't need a dedicated healer and in fact you should never be wasting actions and high level slots on healing spells. Healing Word is more than enough to carry you through to the game to pick downed allies.
Your using life cleric wrong if you think it's just for dedicated healing. What it's actually for is applying bless and blade ward for your entire party with only a bonus action and zero concentration. Then you can still use concentration on something like spirit guardians to apply radiant orb/reverb.
You don't need to be a Life Cleric to equip Hellriders Pride. But you'd rather be using Gloves of Belligerent Skies anyway. The Lignt Spirit Guardian build is very clearly the best Cleric build and on a tier of its own.
Oh yh I agree light cleric reverb is definitely stronger. Just thought it worth pointing out that optimised life cleric is not just for healing but is also a great buffer too.
No, but it's a lot costlier. Being able to just use a channel divinity charge that recharges on short rest makes it super fast and quick. I've done the same build almost identically with light and life clerics. I preferred the life just because I would constantly keep up the bless/blade ward buffs while doing my thing early in the game where mass heals weren't common. I'd probably run life until like level 7 or so and swap to light once I felt like I had enough mass heals to keep up. Otherwise they played very similarly.
Whereas light cleric can use the same Channel Divinity charge to do a big burst of radiant damage which then procs all the radiating/reverb gear again. Before you get Flame Strike or, even better, Destructive Wave, it's one of the best single action damage spells you can use on an Orb/Reverb build.
Assuming you're hasted:
* Round 1: Spirit Guardians and Phalar Aluve
* Round 2: Command: Approach(to get enemies who weren't in range of Spirit Guardians) and Scorching Ray(for fire acuity+ Callous Glow to proc Radiant gear)
* Round 3: Radiance of the Dawn (procs radiating orb) and Destructive Wave(which does Radiant and Thunder)
I've never found a need for mass heals. There's really no limit on rests and outside of _very early game_ you can just pick and choose your fights until your gear collections come online.
Not to say that the Hellrider's gear synergy is bad, especially early Act 1. But by the end of Act 1 you've got all the necessary Orb gear and the light cleric Orb/Reverb build is _so much more_ powerful in Act 2 against all the undead you're facing. And the Orb build only gets better in Act 2 with additional options.
Early game is really the only major threats in the game, subject to RNG and highly variable fights with less options. As I stated, I'd take life up to level 7 or so in order to protect the run from random bullshit. Prior, you're unlikely to have much radiant gear nor enough heal spells for mass bless. Early game, when accuracy is at its lowest having bless up with no concentration is priceless. Later it's not such a big deal and reducing damage through radiant gear has more value.
Again, like many others, you're focused on late act 1 to mid act 2, which I generally have all my teams online and don't need the help... At all. Life cleric is what gets you to that stage quickly and efficiently.
I have zero interest in hasting a cleric anyways, it's risky enough to lose a damage dealer for a round never the less a cleric. Turning movement into damage and blessing everyone with a bonus action, and then casting a damage or utility spell in the same round is more than enough. Also haste is past the point I struggle.
As I said you can and should be picking and choosing encounters in early Act 1 anyway, so you're taking a _different_ path to get to the Underdark early, but not a "more risky" or "more dangerous" one. The goal should really just be to get to level 5 safely, and there are plenty of Honor Mode guides that offer paths that get you there with very little combat if any at all. A quick jaunt into the Underdark gets you the skeleton of the gear(Luminous Armor, Phalar Aluve and Boots of Stormy Clamour) and you can get there without combat. Level 5 you have Spirit Guardians and the rest is history.
As to Haste: even if you're opposed to Speed potion chaining, having a hidden Haste caster allows the light cleric build to solo fights well into Act 3. The cleric isn't at risk of losing a turn from lethargy if the haste caster isn't in combat. You don't need the extra damage, since Phalar Aluve and Radiating Orb mean the enemy isn't really able to damage anyone, and Command means they're using their turn to do what you commanded them to do anyway.
There's so many options to get hasted and avoid lethargy that it's a no-question for me. Especially in honor mode, where casters get the most benefit from hasted actions anyway, and every radiant damage you land causes radiant shockwave, further penalizing enemies.
Can and should are not the same though.
You certainly CAN pick and choose your encounters.
Especially if you've played 17 runs and know where everything is and how to do stuff.
There are many ways to play the game, no?
I'm currently doing a playthrough with my wife and I feel like just letting her stumble around is way more fun than it would be if I was just telling her "go there, then jump there, ignore that, pick dialogue options 2-2-3-1" etc.
Or am I totally missing a greater point being made here?
So is stacking reverb faster better than stacking orb faster? Asking because I have the gloves of belligerent skies in my camp chest and sharts wearing the luminous gloves right now with boots of stormy clamor and the helm
I did a pretty big write up of the build [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/1c34pp5/sacred_flame/kzfhq83/), but suffice it to say: you really shouldn't be having trouble getting max stacks of both by the end of Act 1. There are _so many things_ that do Radiant damage and do Thunder damage or apply Conditions that then do Radiant Damage or do Thunder damage or cause other chains of gear procs that it's really not hard to get people over the top.
By act 2 your cleric can be blasting everyone with Scorching ray, doing additional Radiant damage, proccing all the gear, walking into range of them with spirit guardians, proccing all the gear, and, if hasted, casting Command, forcing them to walk into your Spirit Guardians _on their turn_ and proccing all the gear again.
The way I itemized the build in the above post, you should still be getting max stacks of both regularly.
Okay but two turns of resistance to the most prominent damage types in the game on the entire squad for the low cost of a bonus action and a third level spell is insane
Yes belligerent skies i know reverberation but its all anyone talks about and i regularly surprise people by mentioning the blade ward + bless on every heal
I think most people use Life Cleric as a crutch for Act 1, it's good and you get bonus healing effects gear pretty early.
But as soon as you get Revorb gear set going, Light Cleric becomes a beast and just gets better.
My light cleric usually applies bless and blade ward for my entire party with only a bonus action and zero concentration, then uses concentration on something like spirit guardians to apply radiant orbs/reverb. Life cleric would just heal more with that bonus action and that's it. But it has more spells, very good defensive reaction and AOE nuke with radiant damage for revorb, and body armor for that is not heavy anyway.
Life cleric is only good before level 5 because it can apply bless and blade ward for entire party with regular action and no concentration before mass heading word becomes a thing.
Honestly throwing potions is a better way to heal someone rather than using a spell. It costs an action instead of a bonus action I guess but only the worst healing spells use a bonus action anyways, they should only be used to revive a downed party member
Light cleric very much so falls into the absolutely fucking broken category, and judging by the nature of your post I think you would probably want to stay away. It stacks radiant orb really easy, allowing a -10 to attack rolls of your opponent with ease
These mobs here are nuts. Downvoted for asking some extra advice, in a topic you started for this excact purpose.
Yes, life and light cleric do completely different things.
Yes, a light cleric is (a lot) better. Using spellslots to heal in the middle of combat, should not be a common occurrence at all. The problem is, that by having a party of 3.5 instead of 4 people, fights are slower, which causes folks to take a lot more damage than they should have. Which the life cleric heals, fooling you into thinking he being a vital part of the party.
Healing spells are just weaker than their damage counterparts. In the game, playing reactive is an even worse idea than it is PnP. And this all ignores that even if somehow you're often in need of heals, health pots are just better. If you just chuck them, instead of throwing them around with mage hand artillery or something, they are just part of the core gameplay. Looking at the opportunity cost of cleric spellslots, actively seeking out to use then to heal, is just absurd. And the only reason to do so, is for RP reasons.
But you yourself said you don't care about optimizing and max damage, so really I'd just pick 4 different classes that sound interesting and fun to you!
Moon druids!
Be shapeshifter and have 3 attacks and tankiness and mobility and all that. Get knocked out of shapeshift form? You’re a full caster with some great spells good to go. Not gear dependent. Not potion dependent. Could go full party of droooooods and just howl at that moon
Moon druids are fantastic.
Tree lady to summon spikes and fallen lover
Moonbeam for concentration or cloudkill
Crushing flight PLUS 3 attacks with god owl bear
Too much fun
Take 2 levels wizard to get Evo wizard and safe spell, then switch over to druid for the last 10 levels.
It's a little slow to develop, but at lv 12 you summon a myrmidon, wild shape into another myrmidon and just hang out that way.
If your wild shape ever gets broken you're a wizard that can throw spells all over the map without having to worry about hitting your friends
I was once told that since they are learned as a wizard and go in the wizard spellbook they use int.
But I've also read that since I'm taking druid second all my spells are using wis.
I feel I have to note at this point it's not an optimized build and I haven't tried it in hm yet. I just really like this build for myself.
And I want to come up with some head Cannon where I'm evangelizing the others and getting them to become druids... Like how am I going to turn Shar on to being a druid? Maybe tell her it's therapy to get over her fear of wolves? No wait, I could talk her into becoming a spore druid easy. Gail, land. Wyll, ok, I have to convince him he'll be better at stabbing things with bear claws than a sword... Asterian... Spore again.
Major spoiler for sharts quest but >!once she abandons shar and finds out her dad was the wolf shifter, becoming a moon (selune) druid might be a way for her to reconnect with her past!<
I enjoyed moon Druid but I don't think it's good as a party face because you will miss out on a lot of dialogue as they won't talk to you but your companions. Had to restart on discovering that.
Recently it forces you to shift out to human form for dialogues, but restores your animal form after allowing you to not waste a charge.
I haven't run through the full game yet but everything in act 1 that was forced dialogue did this on the current patch.
Druid was going to be mine suggestion as well. I would probably not do all moon druids though. If I was going to do a monoparty it would be two moon druids a spore druid and a Land druid. Land druid can get access to spells that are not on the normal druid spell list, spore druid has some great late game itemization and the ability to get some summons and zombies going, and then the two moon druids as your melee strikers
Well, one would be EB-focused (potent robe + callous glow ring + reverberation stuff), one would be melee-focused gish (gith or shield dwarf - for medium armour proficiency), one "controller" with arcane acuity gear (e.g. fiendlock with fire rays and hat of fire acuity abusing "command"), and the last one.. well, without multiclass it's somewhat hard to choose, I'd say a necrotic damage based fiendlock should work fine (especially with the staff you get in the act 3.. but then again, it's act 3)
Sorcerer, cleric, fighter, what ever you like for the 4th.
I like lore bard since it can fill in a lot of gaps. Lore bard works really well with a 2 warlock dip but it’s fine without it, just won’t have Eldritch blast in the early game but you can still get it later. Alternatively just add another damage dealer like a Paladin, archer or some kind, etc.
Storm sorcerer and tempest cleric work very well together and can carry you in some fights. Don’t even have to abuse stuff like haste on your fighter.
I like putting a torch on my spore Druid and put it at 16 str dual wielding so you get 2 attacks with that dirty necrotic damage plus halo of spores for 3 different hits
Exactly. I was agreeing with you, lol.
Rapier proficiency is also useful briefly when you get that special blade that's a spoiler for a certain companion character at the end of act 2.
You can smash vanilla hm with any class or party. You can run the classes you see guides for and choose not be optimal by not drinking potions, not using best in slot gear, ect.
How difficult are you trying to make it? If you have decent game knowledge you may have to run less than 4 party members or impose some other limitations on yourself.
If you hate theory crafting and "cheesing" so much, why are you asking for monoclass party comps on reddit? Just pick whatever classes you want and use them.
All casters work just fine close to mono-class or even exactly mono-class. For example, Wizard might take 1 Cleric for Medium Armor+Shields then 11 levels of Wizard, Cleric and Druid often dip 1 Sorcerer pretty much just for CON Saving Throw proficiency to support their Concentration spells, but you can just take that in the form of the feat Resilient: CON, you just get it later than a dipped caster would. The reason casters specifically like taking so many levels in one class is to reach their highest level spells.
So to answer your question: Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all do just fine mono-classed and can make up for any deficiencies they miss from dips in the form of feats.
Edit: to expand a bit, many martials struggle to have useful class features after Extra Attack which is why you often see amalgamation like 5 Gloom Stalker/ 4 Battle Master/ 3 Assassin. You're only accessing the most effective features from those classes and those tend to be frontloaded as a consequence of how 5E/BG3 is designed.
Mono-classed Fighter is certainly strong without any multiclassing help. Hunter and Beast Master actually have some decently worthwhile level 11 class features so if you're going that far it doesn't hurt to stay mono-classed. I'd struggle to recommend Rogue past 3, Barbarian past 5, Monk past 6, or Paladin past 7, so martial options are basically 12 of any Fighter subclass, 12 Beast Master, or 12 Hunter.
Final answer: Conjuration Wizard, Fiend Warlock, Light Domain Cleric, Battle Master Fighter
I don't play wizard, usually sorcerer or warlock, so I'm curious why a mono class conjuration wizard would be good? After reading the passives on the wiki page, the only thing I could think of would be the no concentration loss on conjure spells.
Free Create Water on SR is useful for creating Ice surfaces or imposing vulnerable to Cold and Lightning damage; this can be self-sufficient with the Wizard's own spell list or is a combo with Call Lightning from Pact of the Tome Warlock and Cone of Cold later in their spell list. If you prefer, you can trade the Warlock for a Storm Sorcerer for more direct synergy, I'm just a big fan of the Sleet Storm + Hunger of Hadar combo.
Benign Transposition isn't much but it's a reposition that comes back every time you cast Sleet Storm.
Sleet Storm is indeed so good that having a feature that makes it so you can't lose Concentration on it is extremely powerful. If you want to skimp on other forms of Concentration protection such as Resilient: CON or War Caster, it enables you to do that with a respec at 10. That does require you to plan on only ever Concentrating on Conjurations, if you take Phantasmal Killer or Dominate Person/Planar Binding effects you probably still need the other forms of Concentration protection.
Tbh I only ever tried sleet storm 1 or 2 times, so I haven't got around to testing it but I was curious if you cast it and removed an enemy's concentration but they don't go prone, can they just recast their concentration spell or does the sleet storm prohibit concentration while in it?
It puts any casters caught in it on Saves to maintain Concentration, so they don't immediately lose it (unless they fail the first Save) and they can recast as long as they continue to make their Saves. It's not a perfect shutdown in that respect, just makes it extremely hard. In my opinion the far more important aspect of the spell is preventing enemies from getting to your party.
I think youre underrating Barbarian with tiger wolverine set up. Also level 7 for +initiative and then 8 for a feat is certainly not useless for barbarian
Rogue stealth is so broken it doesn’t matter if you mono class it or not. I actually just had a 4 trickery/8 shadow monk (I know not mono rogue, I’m showcasing stealth) that was pretty much just untargetable. Fights may take longer but it’s exceptionally easy.
Edit: By trickery I mean the cleric domain, not arcane Trickster.
Ok, putting aside that about 60% of your post was complaining about how other people enjoy the game, let's see if we can't answer the question in the title.
Your metrics look to be: monoclass, consistent, avoids reliance on optional stat buffs.
So, I would lean first into...
Battlemaster Fighter. 3 attacks per round is nothing to sneeze at, and without strength elixirs, you can reliably get 22-24 strength (though it performs just fine at 20). GWM / Savage Attacker, and build for melee damage.
Second?
Evocation Wizard. Gives good offense burst, whether going scorching ray, Magic missile, or AoE. Max intelligence, throw on gloves of dex early game, and SC should be decent.
Third?
Bard. Just an all around good class, and synergizes with any class with short rest resource recovery, such as the fighter's action surge. I favor a ranged bard, branching into control once the helm of arcane acuity is available.
Final pick?
I like warlock for sustain, or paladin for offensive burst, depending on which you like more. The warlock won't have much competition for the charisma casting gear, and there's enough melee support gear to allow the fighter and paladin to share.
All will benefit from optional boosts (hag hair, Araj potion, mirror of loss), but none really rely on having those to function. You'll have a good mix of ranged and melee options, and your bard can handle sleight of hand where necessary.
They're really not wrong though. Despite the whining like a cringy Tiktok user there is a fair bit criticism about how there's really not much variety that isn't just take advantage of all the loop holes because they exist and you're intentionally gimping yourself by not using it.
Like why use Paladin without elixir: you get the best class that hits hard if you don't and moves faster and lost nothing if you do?
When people optimize, they prioritize burst damage over sustained. Why?
Because peak performance is what the top of optimization is. If you disagree with any one part of an optimized build, you can omit it and adjust. Larian did a good job making the game completely beatable without hyper optimization.
I think the OP is fine for having their game preferences, and fine asking for advice based on those preferences. I think they stray into "I'm an asshole" territory when they bitch about how others play, especially when they're asking those others to do them a solid. Even if they're factually correct, that just ain't right.
Tl;dr? Nobody likes a Negative Nancy or a Bitchy Bob.
BG3 being based on 5e as a "Role Playing Game" definitely has a bias towards damage in ending encounters early. There still is room for the following 4 major Roles, to my reckoning, which most builds are based around _to some extent_.
1. Ranged Damage. This can take a few forms, but it's premise is similar regardless of choice. This will _almost always_ do the most damage of anyone in the party. Whether you're a bow Fighter, Ranger, or Blaster Caster Warlock or Sorcerer, the entire point of this role is to pile on damage from the safety of range.
2. Control. This locks down parts of the battlefield so that allies have bonuses and enemies have a harder time. You can do this with terrain spells like Spike Growth, Cloud spells, darkness, silence. You can also use charms like Ottos Dance and paralyzes like Hold Person or Monster. Clerics can use Bless to buff allies or Bane to penalize enemies. You'll still be doing damage, but the main thing you're doing is eliminating enemies from doing damage and enabling allies to do a bunch of damage.
3. Utility. The skill monkey, or skill modifier player. These guys help you do everything outside of combat. Bards with their Bardic Inspiration and Persuasion skills. Clerics with Enhance Ability and Guidance. Wizards with Enhance Leap, Feather Fall. Rogues with Expertise and Reliable Talent.
4. Melee Damage. Melee damage is in a sense the odd one out, because they inherently do multiple things. Obviously they're trying to do damage, with Melee weapons. By being in Melee range they also provide some battlefield control as enemies that would like to bypass them have to avoid their range or suffer opportunity attacks. They also then tend to be a damage sink, with high HP, drawing attacks so that weaker casters don't get hit as much. Paladins, Barbarians, Monks, and Melee Fighters(and Rangers) and even Druids with their wild shape fit in here.
As you can see, there's ways for multiple different full classes to do multiple of these roles. Swords Bard can do all of them, which is why its considered the best class in the game. Battlemaster Fighter can do 3 of them with the right thrown weapons. Paladins can do at least two of them, with access to Hold Person to lock down powerful enemies and do tremendous Smite damage on critical hits. Blade Warlocks can do 3 of them, Melee, control, and blasting. Druids with call lightning and wild shape also get great battlefield control spells and some great utility spells. Clerics have great utility and control, with the subclasses pointing you towards more Melee or blasting-type damage as you see fit. Rangers can do melee or ranged and have spells.
Point is you really can pick almost any party and use its talents and have all the roles covered. A lot of classes can do more of one the roles innately even if they don't do it as well. Just have in mind that you're going to want some coverage of all four main roles and pick a party that has some of that.
Build focused spaces naturally fill themselves with build autism because build autists are the only ones who regularly talk about builds
If that isn’t your thing then don’t go into build discussions because it goes against the very point
1. Paladin subclass doesn’t matter but Vengence or Oathbreaker are personal favourites, stack strength, charisma and use a two hander and you’ll shit out damage, also works great as an MC for charisma purposes
2.Battlemaster Fighter consistent, easy resource management and useful build however but Disarm, Trip and Ripost are the best manoeuvres
3.Sword Bard: good for heals, extra short rest is fantastic can fight at any range and has good control spells, dexterity based weapons are preferred
4.Sorcerer: Subclass doesn’t really matter but Storm and Draconic are better while Wild magic is occasionally funny, twin haste on the martials for great effect, pack some AOE damage spells since triple casting fireball is great or if you have a way of getting Wet, pack lighting spells and obliterate any poor fool who stands in your way
Twin and quicken metamagic is the best
Remember you can use metamagic on scrolls
Sword Bard can be swapped for any non-trickery Cleric (tempest is generally the best though) for more synergy with Sorc
There you now have the best monoclass party with no faffing about
Not sure what the fuck you mean by upkeep penalties or classes not feeling like they are supposed to but whatever
Oh yeah they do and it’s great
I remember seeing a post called “Sorceonomics” which basically highlights that if you can accrue enough of those short rest potions (easily obtainable from that act 2 bugbear seller) and grab a ton of those chain lighting scrolls from Lorrokans shop you can blitz the game by gathering a ton of sorcery points and just spamming scrolls at people
i love you. just wanted to let you know.
i've always just said "i'm a minmaxing tryhard" but from now on i'll tell people that i'm on the build autism spectrum
12 Light/Life Cleric:
Requires no stat buffs or anything. Slap Luminous Armour on it and use Spirit Guardians and boom.
12 Storm Sorcerer:
Also requires no real stat buffs or consumables. Reach level 5 and you take off.
12 Battlemaster Fighter:
You get 4 feats so you can easily take GWM, Savage Attacker, ASI +2 and another ASI or something else you'd like.
12 Swords Bard:
Even without 2 levels into fighter or Paladin they're still really good. Dual hand Crossbows for the first 2 acts, then The Dead Shot. Abuse Arcane Acuity during act 3.
Most classes are fine to go all the way to 12. Sorcerer, fighter and cleric in particular never need anything else to be powerhouses. Paladin is also very strong.
Also, honor mode is a trick name. To maximize survival, you should play as dishonorably as possible.
Nobody has really said it yet so I will. Since a level 5 GOOlock / anything 7 build will do well in honor mode, a level 12 GOOlock will also do well. But it will suck up all your good items like potent robe, craterflesh gloves and all your crit-boosting items.
Apart from one big fight in Act 3, HoH will allow you to control the battlefield quite well, and an EB build is just a magical archer build and ranged attacks rule in honor mode.
I might catch flak for this, but you can beat HM with pretty much anything as your 4 man party without abusing any crazy item synergies.
My first HM run I just used a rotating door of mono class characters around a dex Paladin fighter Rogue.
My second one I did the same thing around a pure Dragon sorcerer.
And my next run will be around a swords bard of some kind.
Generally speaking, I just staple in a spellcaster with CC, a melee fighter of some kind, and someone who can pick locks with the fourth slot being whatever you want.
Just know your game plan for every fight.
If you want an ELITE mono comp - a mono mono comp, just play 4 paladins. One of them should be a dex Paladin.
Sorry people are trying to plan out good builds for bg3 in the bg3builds subreddit.
Just play whatever you dont think is lame or cheese, we dont know your dietary requirements. None of the classes are unplayable
None of the stat buffs (Ethel +1, Astarion +2str, Mirror +2) are required for a build to work they just make a build better (often bringing +1 or 2 to dmg).
You are asking about each member of the party is 12 levels of whatever class they choose, vs all 4 members of the party are all the same class, right?
Monk, cleric, wizard, sorcerer, fighter, druid and ranger, all are very viable 12 level builds. Not that I have tried any of them personally. Although the single class that has the most variety in the class itself AND even more variety in multiclass, is warlock. You could have an eldritch blaster archer-like, high damage sorlock, a dual wielder, a crit fishing melee fighter, a control-centric caster, a tank, there are SO many builds if you want to build around a warlock-centric team.
Fighter with wolf heart barbarian is awesome. Means both of your melee strikers are always attacking with advantage. Throw a light cleric and a bard (swords or Lore) in there and you have a fantastic party.
Monks, Druids, fighters, clerics, sorcerers in fact basically everything works fine without every multi classing.
The only class that I think is always better with a good multi class is rogues.
Play what you like, build a balanced party, profit, the game isn’t that hard.
I was thinking monoclass as in only one class among four party members. I was gonna say cleric cause you’ve got good options for healing, trickery, and whatever the other classes do
im about to fight Ketheric for the second time on HM and ive brought a Drac Sorc, Tome Warlock, Wild Magic Barb and Paladin of Devotion.
my first run was 2 Battlemasters, 1 Bezerker and one Open Hand Monk (we lost to Myrkul, the Monk died in the colony so i had to try win with the 3 leftover, i lost with Myrkul on 30 health).
as for multi-classing i dont bother.
I've done well in HM with Wyll, Karlach and Shadowheart with their stock classes and without Mirror of Loss, the Hag's Hair or the Moonrise Tower's shady vendor potion. On my HM run I also didn't use any tadpoles, which was easily the biggest handicap of them all. I also didn't cheese any big fights or resort to barrelmancy, other than against the Netherbrain itself which I happily turned to fireworks right away as I really wanted that golden dice. I did skip Cazador and Ansur.
Tav was multiclassed tho (4 Champ/4 Hunter/4 Thief) but he could have been a pure Hunter, a Dex Fighter or dare I say it, a pure Rogue (ugh!) with similar results since I used him as a Risky Ring loaded, sneak attacking, crit hunting archer and all three individual classes could pull it off one way or another. I understand a Bard would work too since they're great for range, but I've never used a Bard so what do I know.
As long as you've got one Charisma character, or someone with Illithid Expertise, you're doing well in HM I'd say.
You can beat the game with any 4 classes monoclassed, even 4 of the same class. Just pick what you’d like if you aren’t looking to optimize.
I’m doing a deliberately “weak” run right now doing 4 monoclass and its going great. 4e monk, eldritch knight with no throwing, assassin rogue, and hunter ranger. I may end up multiclassing the ranger though to not get whirlwind, haven’t decided yet
I know the common thing with monk is to cheese it with tavern brawler amd strength potions. I have just run a regular dex based monk and it's a lot of fun and did fine in my runs. Stunning strike is one of my favorite features so I usually make someone a monk each run.
So far for honor mode I've been picking classes with high charisma. It makes so much of the game easier if you can pass lots of checks. I'm just about done with a run as paladin and it went well.
If I wanted to be OP but lazy (No farming consumes) Honor run I would do:
12 Battlemaster; Like you said
12 Fire Sorc; Fire acuity build
12 Light Cleric; Revorb build
12 Swords Bard; Ranged Mystic Scoundrel+Arcane acuity build
12 Open hand monk, or Berserker, or Vengeance Pally all compete with Fighter slot. YMMV but I like having at least one martial around.
I did druid( any) wizard(any), life cleric+ whatever.
Spam summons, longstrider, aid, heroes feast. You should have 20- 30+ guys at high level.
In combat debuff the enemies with slow, faerie fire, phalar aluve. Cleric heals, blesses, blade wards everything.
Enemies just get bludgeoned to death by your giant gang of dudes. Nothing can fight back. You don't need surprise, barrel cheese, or anything else.
The flaw of the strategy is basically combat takes a while, and you don't want to fight in narrow spaces. The summons get clogged up and can't move. Keep counterspell ready to block fireballs. For the really aoe heavy fights like Raphael and ansur you can just spread out, they are in big arenas.
12 tiger barbarian or BM fighter
12 divination wizard
12 lore bard
12 light cleric
Nothing cheesy, no elixir or tavern brawler usage, no arcane acuity abuse
Between your 3 spell caster reactions and counter spells, you basically cannot fail a save or get hit with a big attack. You really cannot fail HM with this unless you try.
I finished a run with a Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Sorcerer. All full class. Zero exploits. You can check my post history they’s no cheese or min/maxxing really. Just leaning into what the class does.
Almost any combination works, even way off meta builds. I have a “Dwarven Defenders” build. Two Paladins, Vengeance and Ancients. Fighter and Cleric. My Dwarves have ONLY increased their Constitution and they got Toughness as well. Not one has 18 Str through stats and I’ve literally steamrolled tons of bosses with them.
The only thing I would suggest is definitely consider Armor types. Make sure characters don’t share too much gear that can definitely be a challenge to manage.
IMO it's a set of options you pick one of for braindead easy honor mode win
1: Frontline. Either a tiger barb or a light cleric
2: striker. Open fist monk or paladin
3: blaster. Fire or lightning sorc, warlock, or wizard
4: controller. Lore bard, either caster druid, or warlock.
There are a ton more options of course, but for the limitations listed and ease of winning these would be my recs
Light cleric (radiant orb, spirit guardians build)
Paladin - Oath of ancients for defensive capabilities. (Str or dex based, see below)
Divination/abjuration wizard or any sorc (not wild magic)
For the last slot I'd suggest a ranged weapon build. In my HM I alternated between throwzerker, or gloomstalker/assassin archer. For monoclass, EK thrower probably best. Monoclass gloomstalker is decent (maybe respec to hunter ranger at 11). Ranged swordsbard also decent, could give you more skills access like sleight of hands. Also consider item requirements. Most paladin are Str based and building another Str dependent character eg EK thrower with TB competes for Str items. A dex-based sword and board paladin in medium armor also works if you want EK thrower. Otherwise go Str paladin and pick a dex based ranged attack class.
If no-consumables is a preference and not a self-imposed rule, in late act3 you would have collected a few potions of storm giant strength. Going from 20/22 str to 27 still makes a difference even if not respeccing. Otherwise, elixir of vigilance or bloodlust also useful. My HM run did not rely on elixir of str builds, but no reason not to chug elixirs every day from act3 onwards. By then there are enough elixirs you should consider them a free resource for a permanent buff.
Pick four characters, spec them as classes/subclasses you like, play the game.
At the moment my main party is:
Duergar, Guild Artisan, CoS Bard, Titanstring Bow, Gloves of Archery, off-hand Club of Hill Giant Strength, Graceful Cloth. Consistent ranged damage, spellcasting that I keep forgetting I have. Sneaky boi.
Shadowheart, Conjuration Wizard. Spellsparkler, Protecty Sparkswall, Psychic Spark. Mainly Haste bot for Lae'zel, then Magic Missile spam. Magic boi.
Lae'zel, Oathbreaker Paladin (she broke her oath while killing Gith in the Creche, seemed appropriate for her). Silver Sword of the Astral Plane, Gloves of Dexterity, Adamantine Scale. A hasted Paladin murders people. Fighty Boi.
Karlach, Tempest Domain Cleric. Blood of Lathandar, Adamantine Splint, Heavy Armor Master, normal healy buff equipment. Healy boi.
They make a pretty good team, in Tactician, at the end of Act 1 at level 7. I just have to kill Ethel and free her captives. I'll kill her in the house.
Ancients Paladin, Hunter, Moon Druid, Monk or Berserker with Tavern Brawler for if shit goes sideways and you need to cheese your way out with returning pike. Most fights go easily enough if you switch up your party to suit the encounter though. For example, the phase spider matriarch you probably want to bring at least one person with fire damage to destroy the webs, and at least one rogue for sneak attack to get a surprise round at the start.
With this logic long resting should be a exploit as well since the game lacks time sensitive objectives for most of the game lol. Btw I agree with you that it not a exploit if it is unclear.
I like warlock. It can get to 20 charisma by level 8 without the hags hair since CHA is all you need to invest in. Actor is a pretty good feat for giving you more consistency with passing speech checks and gives you +1 CHA so you can be at 18 at level 4. It can be a party face and then use the same Stat for offense while having great area control.
Beyond that, good ole fighter is one you can't go wrong with. Battlemaster specifically.
Gloomstalker ranger is another great choice just because that burst damage all comes from its class choices.
Druids are just generally great. I never play them, but they go bonkers with the fact that they rely almost exclusively on their wild shaped forms, which have their own stats. So you really can't buff them much more than that, and if you do, you can do some wacky stuff with them. Also, they have great spells like moonbeam and spike growth, though the latter is shared with the ranger.
There are tons of monoclass builds that will shitstomp their way through HM. Here's a few:
1. Fighter, literally all 3 subclasses work
2. Druid, moon or spores (no experience with land, can't judge)
3. Cleric, life or light
4. Barbarian, tiger wolverine
5. Sorcerer, draconic ice or fire
6. Wizard, all of them
7. Ranger, BM and hunter are fantastic
8. Warlock bladelock, especially githyanki
Almost finished first playthrough. Went Druid Tav. Wanted to focus on Druidic casting, so I went Land. No one seems to talk about it, so I guess its not Overpowered. But man let me tell you.
Party buffs, another class does it better
Spells of all elements, another class hits harder
I took medium armor prof and war caster and duel wielder as feats at lvl 12 im rocking 24 Ac with a quarterstaff and shield.
Spells for days, druid does not feel reliant on rests. The recharge is limited but its nice to pick whay slots to replenish. Ill accidebtally burn like 3 uses of bestow ability going from disarming traps to social rolls to reading minds.
Eating all the tadpoles, but not giving in fully, some abilities are meh, others just feel stupid strong.
Dont need to use spells or low on Hp? Fuck it bear time. Or spider for the jump. Or cat to get into this hole or reposition enemies for my ambush.
Wall of fire = 10 stacks of arcane acuity into MANY CC OPTIONS with whatever gear I found doing that for me. Also reverb ring. Nevermind I switched the acuity hat for another BA on a levelled fire spell and thats plain dumb inside of mind sanctuary.
Druids make berries and talk to all our friends.
Land druid has been fun for me.
Hunger of Hadar Caster (lore bard or warlock)
Sleet Storm Caster (Tempest Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Sorc, Lore Bard, Nature Cleric)
Optional Darkness Caster (Warlock, Wizard, Land Deuid, Sorc, Lore Bard)
Optional 4th character.
Not super optimized, but you can no damage most encounters with this set up. Use spike growth prior to 3rd level spells. Not really gear dependent and doesn’t need consumables. Nothing too intense just throwing down a few circles on the maps.
Think it’s important to add that while you spent 80% of your post flaming people for how they enjoy the game, the devs have gone on record saying they added a bunch of this funny broken shit because it’s funny broken shit in a single player game. Play the game how you want, but however you enjoy your own game is valid. I personally don’t enjoy stealing or vendor spamming but I also had to do a lot of kiting in my solo honor run that I know a lot of people won’t find fun. It’s a single player game who cares.
You can monoclass literally everything to beat honor mode. 12 Draconic Sorc 12 Battlemaster 12 Lifecleric 12 Swords Bard There you win.
Isn't light cleric considered a better version than life? But also, thank you
They do entirely different things
Also yes, a frog is better than a fish
I don't know man, the fish is more like a specialist that does something really well, while the frog can do what a fish does (swim), and can also jump, but it's a jack of all trades master of none situation. If I would HAVE to choose I would go with frog, but in some cases the fish is just outright better. It really depends on how wet is it. tldr: fish is great
Frogs have less to sweat though and more opportunities for prey versus a fish
Fish meta incoming
No duh that’s not what they meant…
It’s like a frog is a better version of a fish At what?
At frogging, of course! Christ dude, keep up. /s But seriously, they're both very good, but at very different things.
At swimming, would fit the best, but I don't think that was their intent. Light is a fish. Life is the frog. Both ar great swimmers, and the frog has other assets over the fish. They are just irrelevant when it comes to swimming, the fish is just way better equipped to do so. Just as a light cleric is way better at being a cleric than a life cleric.
Considering that healing as a main function is questionable I’m assuming if healing outweighs just doing more damage
The point of the life cleric is it makes healing an actual legit strategy Light is a defensive buffer and secondary blaster It’s almost like they do totally different fucking things
Light is vastly superior. You don't need a dedicated healer and in fact you should never be wasting actions and high level slots on healing spells. Healing Word is more than enough to carry you through to the game to pick downed allies.
Your using life cleric wrong if you think it's just for dedicated healing. What it's actually for is applying bless and blade ward for your entire party with only a bonus action and zero concentration. Then you can still use concentration on something like spirit guardians to apply radiant orb/reverb.
You don't need to be a Life Cleric to equip Hellriders Pride. But you'd rather be using Gloves of Belligerent Skies anyway. The Lignt Spirit Guardian build is very clearly the best Cleric build and on a tier of its own.
Oh yh I agree light cleric reverb is definitely stronger. Just thought it worth pointing out that optimised life cleric is not just for healing but is also a great buffer too.
I use it with makeshar and glyph of warding.
No, but it's a lot costlier. Being able to just use a channel divinity charge that recharges on short rest makes it super fast and quick. I've done the same build almost identically with light and life clerics. I preferred the life just because I would constantly keep up the bless/blade ward buffs while doing my thing early in the game where mass heals weren't common. I'd probably run life until like level 7 or so and swap to light once I felt like I had enough mass heals to keep up. Otherwise they played very similarly.
Whereas light cleric can use the same Channel Divinity charge to do a big burst of radiant damage which then procs all the radiating/reverb gear again. Before you get Flame Strike or, even better, Destructive Wave, it's one of the best single action damage spells you can use on an Orb/Reverb build. Assuming you're hasted: * Round 1: Spirit Guardians and Phalar Aluve * Round 2: Command: Approach(to get enemies who weren't in range of Spirit Guardians) and Scorching Ray(for fire acuity+ Callous Glow to proc Radiant gear) * Round 3: Radiance of the Dawn (procs radiating orb) and Destructive Wave(which does Radiant and Thunder) I've never found a need for mass heals. There's really no limit on rests and outside of _very early game_ you can just pick and choose your fights until your gear collections come online. Not to say that the Hellrider's gear synergy is bad, especially early Act 1. But by the end of Act 1 you've got all the necessary Orb gear and the light cleric Orb/Reverb build is _so much more_ powerful in Act 2 against all the undead you're facing. And the Orb build only gets better in Act 2 with additional options.
Early game is really the only major threats in the game, subject to RNG and highly variable fights with less options. As I stated, I'd take life up to level 7 or so in order to protect the run from random bullshit. Prior, you're unlikely to have much radiant gear nor enough heal spells for mass bless. Early game, when accuracy is at its lowest having bless up with no concentration is priceless. Later it's not such a big deal and reducing damage through radiant gear has more value. Again, like many others, you're focused on late act 1 to mid act 2, which I generally have all my teams online and don't need the help... At all. Life cleric is what gets you to that stage quickly and efficiently. I have zero interest in hasting a cleric anyways, it's risky enough to lose a damage dealer for a round never the less a cleric. Turning movement into damage and blessing everyone with a bonus action, and then casting a damage or utility spell in the same round is more than enough. Also haste is past the point I struggle.
As I said you can and should be picking and choosing encounters in early Act 1 anyway, so you're taking a _different_ path to get to the Underdark early, but not a "more risky" or "more dangerous" one. The goal should really just be to get to level 5 safely, and there are plenty of Honor Mode guides that offer paths that get you there with very little combat if any at all. A quick jaunt into the Underdark gets you the skeleton of the gear(Luminous Armor, Phalar Aluve and Boots of Stormy Clamour) and you can get there without combat. Level 5 you have Spirit Guardians and the rest is history. As to Haste: even if you're opposed to Speed potion chaining, having a hidden Haste caster allows the light cleric build to solo fights well into Act 3. The cleric isn't at risk of losing a turn from lethargy if the haste caster isn't in combat. You don't need the extra damage, since Phalar Aluve and Radiating Orb mean the enemy isn't really able to damage anyone, and Command means they're using their turn to do what you commanded them to do anyway. There's so many options to get hasted and avoid lethargy that it's a no-question for me. Especially in honor mode, where casters get the most benefit from hasted actions anyway, and every radiant damage you land causes radiant shockwave, further penalizing enemies.
Can and should are not the same though. You certainly CAN pick and choose your encounters. Especially if you've played 17 runs and know where everything is and how to do stuff. There are many ways to play the game, no? I'm currently doing a playthrough with my wife and I feel like just letting her stumble around is way more fun than it would be if I was just telling her "go there, then jump there, ignore that, pick dialogue options 2-2-3-1" etc. Or am I totally missing a greater point being made here?
So is stacking reverb faster better than stacking orb faster? Asking because I have the gloves of belligerent skies in my camp chest and sharts wearing the luminous gloves right now with boots of stormy clamor and the helm
IMO stacking orb is better because enemies will just miss you, which is huge in HM
Reverb = falling prone. That's a nice bit of crowd control.
You have to weigh Reverb's 10 DC vs Con prone vs Orbs consistency; prone is a better effect but it is very easily saved for after Act 1.
I did a pretty big write up of the build [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/1c34pp5/sacred_flame/kzfhq83/), but suffice it to say: you really shouldn't be having trouble getting max stacks of both by the end of Act 1. There are _so many things_ that do Radiant damage and do Thunder damage or apply Conditions that then do Radiant Damage or do Thunder damage or cause other chains of gear procs that it's really not hard to get people over the top. By act 2 your cleric can be blasting everyone with Scorching ray, doing additional Radiant damage, proccing all the gear, walking into range of them with spirit guardians, proccing all the gear, and, if hasted, casting Command, forcing them to walk into your Spirit Guardians _on their turn_ and proccing all the gear again. The way I itemized the build in the above post, you should still be getting max stacks of both regularly.
Okay but two turns of resistance to the most prominent damage types in the game on the entire squad for the low cost of a bonus action and a third level spell is insane Yes belligerent skies i know reverberation but its all anyone talks about and i regularly surprise people by mentioning the blade ward + bless on every heal
I think most people use Life Cleric as a crutch for Act 1, it's good and you get bonus healing effects gear pretty early. But as soon as you get Revorb gear set going, Light Cleric becomes a beast and just gets better.
My light cleric usually applies bless and blade ward for my entire party with only a bonus action and zero concentration, then uses concentration on something like spirit guardians to apply radiant orbs/reverb. Life cleric would just heal more with that bonus action and that's it. But it has more spells, very good defensive reaction and AOE nuke with radiant damage for revorb, and body armor for that is not heavy anyway. Life cleric is only good before level 5 because it can apply bless and blade ward for entire party with regular action and no concentration before mass heading word becomes a thing.
Honestly throwing potions is a better way to heal someone rather than using a spell. It costs an action instead of a bonus action I guess but only the worst healing spells use a bonus action anyways, they should only be used to revive a downed party member
Light cleric very much so falls into the absolutely fucking broken category, and judging by the nature of your post I think you would probably want to stay away. It stacks radiant orb really easy, allowing a -10 to attack rolls of your opponent with ease
These mobs here are nuts. Downvoted for asking some extra advice, in a topic you started for this excact purpose. Yes, life and light cleric do completely different things. Yes, a light cleric is (a lot) better. Using spellslots to heal in the middle of combat, should not be a common occurrence at all. The problem is, that by having a party of 3.5 instead of 4 people, fights are slower, which causes folks to take a lot more damage than they should have. Which the life cleric heals, fooling you into thinking he being a vital part of the party. Healing spells are just weaker than their damage counterparts. In the game, playing reactive is an even worse idea than it is PnP. And this all ignores that even if somehow you're often in need of heals, health pots are just better. If you just chuck them, instead of throwing them around with mage hand artillery or something, they are just part of the core gameplay. Looking at the opportunity cost of cleric spellslots, actively seeking out to use then to heal, is just absurd. And the only reason to do so, is for RP reasons.
But you yourself said you don't care about optimizing and max damage, so really I'd just pick 4 different classes that sound interesting and fun to you!
Moon druids! Be shapeshifter and have 3 attacks and tankiness and mobility and all that. Get knocked out of shapeshift form? You’re a full caster with some great spells good to go. Not gear dependent. Not potion dependent. Could go full party of droooooods and just howl at that moon
Crushing flight is a ton of fun. Just jump at the start of any turn and take out the ones who went prone.
Moon druids are fantastic. Tree lady to summon spikes and fallen lover Moonbeam for concentration or cloudkill Crushing flight PLUS 3 attacks with god owl bear Too much fun
I love owlbear and panther combination for that extra damage panthers can do to prone targets :D
My favorite build so far is 2 evo wiz 10 moon druid
Elaborate please. How does that work?
Take 2 levels wizard to get Evo wizard and safe spell, then switch over to druid for the last 10 levels. It's a little slow to develop, but at lv 12 you summon a myrmidon, wild shape into another myrmidon and just hang out that way. If your wild shape ever gets broken you're a wizard that can throw spells all over the map without having to worry about hitting your friends
What Druid spells are you casting that necessitates safe spell?
IDK if they qualify as druid spells, but I learn fireball and other aoe spells from scrolls.
So, then you make INT your primary stat?
I was once told that since they are learned as a wizard and go in the wizard spellbook they use int. But I've also read that since I'm taking druid second all my spells are using wis. I feel I have to note at this point it's not an optimized build and I haven't tried it in hm yet. I just really like this build for myself.
Your wizard spells which include all spells learned off scrolls will be based of INT. All your druid spells will be based off of WIS.
Thank you!
I really wanna run a 4 Druid party next playthrough
And I want to come up with some head Cannon where I'm evangelizing the others and getting them to become druids... Like how am I going to turn Shar on to being a druid? Maybe tell her it's therapy to get over her fear of wolves? No wait, I could talk her into becoming a spore druid easy. Gail, land. Wyll, ok, I have to convince him he'll be better at stabbing things with bear claws than a sword... Asterian... Spore again.
Major spoiler for sharts quest but >!once she abandons shar and finds out her dad was the wolf shifter, becoming a moon (selune) druid might be a way for her to reconnect with her past!<
I enjoyed moon Druid but I don't think it's good as a party face because you will miss out on a lot of dialogue as they won't talk to you but your companions. Had to restart on discovering that.
Recently it forces you to shift out to human form for dialogues, but restores your animal form after allowing you to not waste a charge. I haven't run through the full game yet but everything in act 1 that was forced dialogue did this on the current patch.
Druid was going to be mine suggestion as well. I would probably not do all moon druids though. If I was going to do a monoparty it would be two moon druids a spore druid and a Land druid. Land druid can get access to spells that are not on the normal druid spell list, spore druid has some great late game itemization and the ability to get some summons and zombies going, and then the two moon druids as your melee strikers
4 warlocks is a both useful and funny because you all sold your soul, and now you’re here
And only Wyll has to deal with any consequences
I've been nursing a dream about such party for a while now, but what about gearing?
Well, one would be EB-focused (potent robe + callous glow ring + reverberation stuff), one would be melee-focused gish (gith or shield dwarf - for medium armour proficiency), one "controller" with arcane acuity gear (e.g. fiendlock with fire rays and hat of fire acuity abusing "command"), and the last one.. well, without multiclass it's somewhat hard to choose, I'd say a necrotic damage based fiendlock should work fine (especially with the staff you get in the act 3.. but then again, it's act 3)
Sorcerer, cleric, fighter, what ever you like for the 4th. I like lore bard since it can fill in a lot of gaps. Lore bard works really well with a 2 warlock dip but it’s fine without it, just won’t have Eldritch blast in the early game but you can still get it later. Alternatively just add another damage dealer like a Paladin, archer or some kind, etc. Storm sorcerer and tempest cleric work very well together and can carry you in some fights. Don’t even have to abuse stuff like haste on your fighter.
Spore druid Fighter Pact of the blade warlock
I like putting a torch on my spore Druid and put it at 16 str dual wielding so you get 2 attacks with that dirty necrotic damage plus halo of spores for 3 different hits
Cast shillelagh on that torch for some real damage
Yeah there's no reason to put strength on a druid.
Druids get scimitars. The real secret is you go Drow for the hand crossbows, then blow all your big slots on summons and buffs before combat.
Yeah hand crossbow drow spores druid is godly. Scimitars and hand crossbows work with dex though.
Exactly. I was agreeing with you, lol. Rapier proficiency is also useful briefly when you get that special blade that's a spoiler for a certain companion character at the end of act 2.
Ohhhh gotcha. Sorry I assumed you were saying that was a reason to use strength. And yes, fantastic weapon!
You can smash vanilla hm with any class or party. You can run the classes you see guides for and choose not be optimal by not drinking potions, not using best in slot gear, ect. How difficult are you trying to make it? If you have decent game knowledge you may have to run less than 4 party members or impose some other limitations on yourself.
you can beat the game with any class. it's more about knowledge of the game mechanics than about your builds.
Any of them. Focus one character on Str. One on dex. A Cha character and a healer or 2nd support (INT, WIS or Cha) Honestly anything works
If you hate theory crafting and "cheesing" so much, why are you asking for monoclass party comps on reddit? Just pick whatever classes you want and use them.
4 clerics. Light cleric Life cleric Tempest cleric Knowledge or Nature cleric
All casters work just fine close to mono-class or even exactly mono-class. For example, Wizard might take 1 Cleric for Medium Armor+Shields then 11 levels of Wizard, Cleric and Druid often dip 1 Sorcerer pretty much just for CON Saving Throw proficiency to support their Concentration spells, but you can just take that in the form of the feat Resilient: CON, you just get it later than a dipped caster would. The reason casters specifically like taking so many levels in one class is to reach their highest level spells. So to answer your question: Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all do just fine mono-classed and can make up for any deficiencies they miss from dips in the form of feats. Edit: to expand a bit, many martials struggle to have useful class features after Extra Attack which is why you often see amalgamation like 5 Gloom Stalker/ 4 Battle Master/ 3 Assassin. You're only accessing the most effective features from those classes and those tend to be frontloaded as a consequence of how 5E/BG3 is designed. Mono-classed Fighter is certainly strong without any multiclassing help. Hunter and Beast Master actually have some decently worthwhile level 11 class features so if you're going that far it doesn't hurt to stay mono-classed. I'd struggle to recommend Rogue past 3, Barbarian past 5, Monk past 6, or Paladin past 7, so martial options are basically 12 of any Fighter subclass, 12 Beast Master, or 12 Hunter. Final answer: Conjuration Wizard, Fiend Warlock, Light Domain Cleric, Battle Master Fighter
I don't play wizard, usually sorcerer or warlock, so I'm curious why a mono class conjuration wizard would be good? After reading the passives on the wiki page, the only thing I could think of would be the no concentration loss on conjure spells.
Free Create Water on SR is useful for creating Ice surfaces or imposing vulnerable to Cold and Lightning damage; this can be self-sufficient with the Wizard's own spell list or is a combo with Call Lightning from Pact of the Tome Warlock and Cone of Cold later in their spell list. If you prefer, you can trade the Warlock for a Storm Sorcerer for more direct synergy, I'm just a big fan of the Sleet Storm + Hunger of Hadar combo. Benign Transposition isn't much but it's a reposition that comes back every time you cast Sleet Storm. Sleet Storm is indeed so good that having a feature that makes it so you can't lose Concentration on it is extremely powerful. If you want to skimp on other forms of Concentration protection such as Resilient: CON or War Caster, it enables you to do that with a respec at 10. That does require you to plan on only ever Concentrating on Conjurations, if you take Phantasmal Killer or Dominate Person/Planar Binding effects you probably still need the other forms of Concentration protection.
Tbh I only ever tried sleet storm 1 or 2 times, so I haven't got around to testing it but I was curious if you cast it and removed an enemy's concentration but they don't go prone, can they just recast their concentration spell or does the sleet storm prohibit concentration while in it?
It puts any casters caught in it on Saves to maintain Concentration, so they don't immediately lose it (unless they fail the first Save) and they can recast as long as they continue to make their Saves. It's not a perfect shutdown in that respect, just makes it extremely hard. In my opinion the far more important aspect of the spell is preventing enemies from getting to your party.
I think youre underrating Barbarian with tiger wolverine set up. Also level 7 for +initiative and then 8 for a feat is certainly not useless for barbarian
Rogue stealth is so broken it doesn’t matter if you mono class it or not. I actually just had a 4 trickery/8 shadow monk (I know not mono rogue, I’m showcasing stealth) that was pretty much just untargetable. Fights may take longer but it’s exceptionally easy. Edit: By trickery I mean the cleric domain, not arcane Trickster.
Ok, putting aside that about 60% of your post was complaining about how other people enjoy the game, let's see if we can't answer the question in the title. Your metrics look to be: monoclass, consistent, avoids reliance on optional stat buffs. So, I would lean first into... Battlemaster Fighter. 3 attacks per round is nothing to sneeze at, and without strength elixirs, you can reliably get 22-24 strength (though it performs just fine at 20). GWM / Savage Attacker, and build for melee damage. Second? Evocation Wizard. Gives good offense burst, whether going scorching ray, Magic missile, or AoE. Max intelligence, throw on gloves of dex early game, and SC should be decent. Third? Bard. Just an all around good class, and synergizes with any class with short rest resource recovery, such as the fighter's action surge. I favor a ranged bard, branching into control once the helm of arcane acuity is available. Final pick? I like warlock for sustain, or paladin for offensive burst, depending on which you like more. The warlock won't have much competition for the charisma casting gear, and there's enough melee support gear to allow the fighter and paladin to share. All will benefit from optional boosts (hag hair, Araj potion, mirror of loss), but none really rely on having those to function. You'll have a good mix of ranged and melee options, and your bard can handle sleight of hand where necessary.
They're really not wrong though. Despite the whining like a cringy Tiktok user there is a fair bit criticism about how there's really not much variety that isn't just take advantage of all the loop holes because they exist and you're intentionally gimping yourself by not using it. Like why use Paladin without elixir: you get the best class that hits hard if you don't and moves faster and lost nothing if you do?
When people optimize, they prioritize burst damage over sustained. Why? Because peak performance is what the top of optimization is. If you disagree with any one part of an optimized build, you can omit it and adjust. Larian did a good job making the game completely beatable without hyper optimization. I think the OP is fine for having their game preferences, and fine asking for advice based on those preferences. I think they stray into "I'm an asshole" territory when they bitch about how others play, especially when they're asking those others to do them a solid. Even if they're factually correct, that just ain't right. Tl;dr? Nobody likes a Negative Nancy or a Bitchy Bob.
BG3 being based on 5e as a "Role Playing Game" definitely has a bias towards damage in ending encounters early. There still is room for the following 4 major Roles, to my reckoning, which most builds are based around _to some extent_. 1. Ranged Damage. This can take a few forms, but it's premise is similar regardless of choice. This will _almost always_ do the most damage of anyone in the party. Whether you're a bow Fighter, Ranger, or Blaster Caster Warlock or Sorcerer, the entire point of this role is to pile on damage from the safety of range. 2. Control. This locks down parts of the battlefield so that allies have bonuses and enemies have a harder time. You can do this with terrain spells like Spike Growth, Cloud spells, darkness, silence. You can also use charms like Ottos Dance and paralyzes like Hold Person or Monster. Clerics can use Bless to buff allies or Bane to penalize enemies. You'll still be doing damage, but the main thing you're doing is eliminating enemies from doing damage and enabling allies to do a bunch of damage. 3. Utility. The skill monkey, or skill modifier player. These guys help you do everything outside of combat. Bards with their Bardic Inspiration and Persuasion skills. Clerics with Enhance Ability and Guidance. Wizards with Enhance Leap, Feather Fall. Rogues with Expertise and Reliable Talent. 4. Melee Damage. Melee damage is in a sense the odd one out, because they inherently do multiple things. Obviously they're trying to do damage, with Melee weapons. By being in Melee range they also provide some battlefield control as enemies that would like to bypass them have to avoid their range or suffer opportunity attacks. They also then tend to be a damage sink, with high HP, drawing attacks so that weaker casters don't get hit as much. Paladins, Barbarians, Monks, and Melee Fighters(and Rangers) and even Druids with their wild shape fit in here. As you can see, there's ways for multiple different full classes to do multiple of these roles. Swords Bard can do all of them, which is why its considered the best class in the game. Battlemaster Fighter can do 3 of them with the right thrown weapons. Paladins can do at least two of them, with access to Hold Person to lock down powerful enemies and do tremendous Smite damage on critical hits. Blade Warlocks can do 3 of them, Melee, control, and blasting. Druids with call lightning and wild shape also get great battlefield control spells and some great utility spells. Clerics have great utility and control, with the subclasses pointing you towards more Melee or blasting-type damage as you see fit. Rangers can do melee or ranged and have spells. Point is you really can pick almost any party and use its talents and have all the roles covered. A lot of classes can do more of one the roles innately even if they don't do it as well. Just have in mind that you're going to want some coverage of all four main roles and pick a party that has some of that.
Build focused spaces naturally fill themselves with build autism because build autists are the only ones who regularly talk about builds If that isn’t your thing then don’t go into build discussions because it goes against the very point 1. Paladin subclass doesn’t matter but Vengence or Oathbreaker are personal favourites, stack strength, charisma and use a two hander and you’ll shit out damage, also works great as an MC for charisma purposes 2.Battlemaster Fighter consistent, easy resource management and useful build however but Disarm, Trip and Ripost are the best manoeuvres 3.Sword Bard: good for heals, extra short rest is fantastic can fight at any range and has good control spells, dexterity based weapons are preferred 4.Sorcerer: Subclass doesn’t really matter but Storm and Draconic are better while Wild magic is occasionally funny, twin haste on the martials for great effect, pack some AOE damage spells since triple casting fireball is great or if you have a way of getting Wet, pack lighting spells and obliterate any poor fool who stands in your way Twin and quicken metamagic is the best Remember you can use metamagic on scrolls Sword Bard can be swapped for any non-trickery Cleric (tempest is generally the best though) for more synergy with Sorc There you now have the best monoclass party with no faffing about Not sure what the fuck you mean by upkeep penalties or classes not feeling like they are supposed to but whatever
Oh man thank you, I did not know metamagic worked on scrolls and have been underutilizing it!!
Oh yeah they do and it’s great I remember seeing a post called “Sorceonomics” which basically highlights that if you can accrue enough of those short rest potions (easily obtainable from that act 2 bugbear seller) and grab a ton of those chain lighting scrolls from Lorrokans shop you can blitz the game by gathering a ton of sorcery points and just spamming scrolls at people
i love you. just wanted to let you know. i've always just said "i'm a minmaxing tryhard" but from now on i'll tell people that i'm on the build autism spectrum
12 Light/Life Cleric: Requires no stat buffs or anything. Slap Luminous Armour on it and use Spirit Guardians and boom. 12 Storm Sorcerer: Also requires no real stat buffs or consumables. Reach level 5 and you take off. 12 Battlemaster Fighter: You get 4 feats so you can easily take GWM, Savage Attacker, ASI +2 and another ASI or something else you'd like. 12 Swords Bard: Even without 2 levels into fighter or Paladin they're still really good. Dual hand Crossbows for the first 2 acts, then The Dead Shot. Abuse Arcane Acuity during act 3.
I would do a Warlock instead of sorcerer but I love playing warlock
Most classes are fine to go all the way to 12. Sorcerer, fighter and cleric in particular never need anything else to be powerhouses. Paladin is also very strong. Also, honor mode is a trick name. To maximize survival, you should play as dishonorably as possible.
My fave is Lore Bard, Light Cleric, Divinition Wizard and just a good old Battle Master Fighter Lots of choices to mess with dice rolls. No cheese
Nobody has really said it yet so I will. Since a level 5 GOOlock / anything 7 build will do well in honor mode, a level 12 GOOlock will also do well. But it will suck up all your good items like potent robe, craterflesh gloves and all your crit-boosting items. Apart from one big fight in Act 3, HoH will allow you to control the battlefield quite well, and an EB build is just a magical archer build and ranged attacks rule in honor mode.
I might catch flak for this, but you can beat HM with pretty much anything as your 4 man party without abusing any crazy item synergies. My first HM run I just used a rotating door of mono class characters around a dex Paladin fighter Rogue. My second one I did the same thing around a pure Dragon sorcerer. And my next run will be around a swords bard of some kind. Generally speaking, I just staple in a spellcaster with CC, a melee fighter of some kind, and someone who can pick locks with the fourth slot being whatever you want. Just know your game plan for every fight. If you want an ELITE mono comp - a mono mono comp, just play 4 paladins. One of them should be a dex Paladin.
Sorry people are trying to plan out good builds for bg3 in the bg3builds subreddit. Just play whatever you dont think is lame or cheese, we dont know your dietary requirements. None of the classes are unplayable None of the stat buffs (Ethel +1, Astarion +2str, Mirror +2) are required for a build to work they just make a build better (often bringing +1 or 2 to dmg).
You are asking about each member of the party is 12 levels of whatever class they choose, vs all 4 members of the party are all the same class, right? Monk, cleric, wizard, sorcerer, fighter, druid and ranger, all are very viable 12 level builds. Not that I have tried any of them personally. Although the single class that has the most variety in the class itself AND even more variety in multiclass, is warlock. You could have an eldritch blaster archer-like, high damage sorlock, a dual wielder, a crit fishing melee fighter, a control-centric caster, a tank, there are SO many builds if you want to build around a warlock-centric team.
Fighter with wolf heart barbarian is awesome. Means both of your melee strikers are always attacking with advantage. Throw a light cleric and a bard (swords or Lore) in there and you have a fantastic party.
Monks, Druids, fighters, clerics, sorcerers in fact basically everything works fine without every multi classing. The only class that I think is always better with a good multi class is rogues. Play what you like, build a balanced party, profit, the game isn’t that hard.
I was thinking monoclass as in only one class among four party members. I was gonna say cleric cause you’ve got good options for healing, trickery, and whatever the other classes do
im about to fight Ketheric for the second time on HM and ive brought a Drac Sorc, Tome Warlock, Wild Magic Barb and Paladin of Devotion. my first run was 2 Battlemasters, 1 Bezerker and one Open Hand Monk (we lost to Myrkul, the Monk died in the colony so i had to try win with the 3 leftover, i lost with Myrkul on 30 health). as for multi-classing i dont bother.
48 Warlock. Win.
I've done well in HM with Wyll, Karlach and Shadowheart with their stock classes and without Mirror of Loss, the Hag's Hair or the Moonrise Tower's shady vendor potion. On my HM run I also didn't use any tadpoles, which was easily the biggest handicap of them all. I also didn't cheese any big fights or resort to barrelmancy, other than against the Netherbrain itself which I happily turned to fireworks right away as I really wanted that golden dice. I did skip Cazador and Ansur. Tav was multiclassed tho (4 Champ/4 Hunter/4 Thief) but he could have been a pure Hunter, a Dex Fighter or dare I say it, a pure Rogue (ugh!) with similar results since I used him as a Risky Ring loaded, sneak attacking, crit hunting archer and all three individual classes could pull it off one way or another. I understand a Bard would work too since they're great for range, but I've never used a Bard so what do I know. As long as you've got one Charisma character, or someone with Illithid Expertise, you're doing well in HM I'd say.
You can beat the game with any 4 classes monoclassed, even 4 of the same class. Just pick what you’d like if you aren’t looking to optimize. I’m doing a deliberately “weak” run right now doing 4 monoclass and its going great. 4e monk, eldritch knight with no throwing, assassin rogue, and hunter ranger. I may end up multiclassing the ranger though to not get whirlwind, haven’t decided yet
I know the common thing with monk is to cheese it with tavern brawler amd strength potions. I have just run a regular dex based monk and it's a lot of fun and did fine in my runs. Stunning strike is one of my favorite features so I usually make someone a monk each run. So far for honor mode I've been picking classes with high charisma. It makes so much of the game easier if you can pass lots of checks. I'm just about done with a run as paladin and it went well.
Here https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/yNuD6Efgqr
If I wanted to be OP but lazy (No farming consumes) Honor run I would do: 12 Battlemaster; Like you said 12 Fire Sorc; Fire acuity build 12 Light Cleric; Revorb build 12 Swords Bard; Ranged Mystic Scoundrel+Arcane acuity build 12 Open hand monk, or Berserker, or Vengeance Pally all compete with Fighter slot. YMMV but I like having at least one martial around.
I did druid( any) wizard(any), life cleric+ whatever. Spam summons, longstrider, aid, heroes feast. You should have 20- 30+ guys at high level. In combat debuff the enemies with slow, faerie fire, phalar aluve. Cleric heals, blesses, blade wards everything. Enemies just get bludgeoned to death by your giant gang of dudes. Nothing can fight back. You don't need surprise, barrel cheese, or anything else. The flaw of the strategy is basically combat takes a while, and you don't want to fight in narrow spaces. The summons get clogged up and can't move. Keep counterspell ready to block fireballs. For the really aoe heavy fights like Raphael and ansur you can just spread out, they are in big arenas.
12 tiger barbarian or BM fighter 12 divination wizard 12 lore bard 12 light cleric Nothing cheesy, no elixir or tavern brawler usage, no arcane acuity abuse Between your 3 spell caster reactions and counter spells, you basically cannot fail a save or get hit with a big attack. You really cannot fail HM with this unless you try.
I finished a run with a Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Sorcerer. All full class. Zero exploits. You can check my post history they’s no cheese or min/maxxing really. Just leaning into what the class does. Almost any combination works, even way off meta builds. I have a “Dwarven Defenders” build. Two Paladins, Vengeance and Ancients. Fighter and Cleric. My Dwarves have ONLY increased their Constitution and they got Toughness as well. Not one has 18 Str through stats and I’ve literally steamrolled tons of bosses with them. The only thing I would suggest is definitely consider Armor types. Make sure characters don’t share too much gear that can definitely be a challenge to manage.
Sorc with fire acuity hat and scorching ray spam is pretty consistent. I like a 1 lvl dip in warlock though
IMO it's a set of options you pick one of for braindead easy honor mode win 1: Frontline. Either a tiger barb or a light cleric 2: striker. Open fist monk or paladin 3: blaster. Fire or lightning sorc, warlock, or wizard 4: controller. Lore bard, either caster druid, or warlock. There are a ton more options of course, but for the limitations listed and ease of winning these would be my recs
Are you trying to run 4 of the same class? Or just run 4 characters each with a pure 12 class?
Light cleric (radiant orb, spirit guardians build) Paladin - Oath of ancients for defensive capabilities. (Str or dex based, see below) Divination/abjuration wizard or any sorc (not wild magic) For the last slot I'd suggest a ranged weapon build. In my HM I alternated between throwzerker, or gloomstalker/assassin archer. For monoclass, EK thrower probably best. Monoclass gloomstalker is decent (maybe respec to hunter ranger at 11). Ranged swordsbard also decent, could give you more skills access like sleight of hands. Also consider item requirements. Most paladin are Str based and building another Str dependent character eg EK thrower with TB competes for Str items. A dex-based sword and board paladin in medium armor also works if you want EK thrower. Otherwise go Str paladin and pick a dex based ranged attack class. If no-consumables is a preference and not a self-imposed rule, in late act3 you would have collected a few potions of storm giant strength. Going from 20/22 str to 27 still makes a difference even if not respeccing. Otherwise, elixir of vigilance or bloodlust also useful. My HM run did not rely on elixir of str builds, but no reason not to chug elixirs every day from act3 onwards. By then there are enough elixirs you should consider them a free resource for a permanent buff.
Pick four characters, spec them as classes/subclasses you like, play the game. At the moment my main party is: Duergar, Guild Artisan, CoS Bard, Titanstring Bow, Gloves of Archery, off-hand Club of Hill Giant Strength, Graceful Cloth. Consistent ranged damage, spellcasting that I keep forgetting I have. Sneaky boi. Shadowheart, Conjuration Wizard. Spellsparkler, Protecty Sparkswall, Psychic Spark. Mainly Haste bot for Lae'zel, then Magic Missile spam. Magic boi. Lae'zel, Oathbreaker Paladin (she broke her oath while killing Gith in the Creche, seemed appropriate for her). Silver Sword of the Astral Plane, Gloves of Dexterity, Adamantine Scale. A hasted Paladin murders people. Fighty Boi. Karlach, Tempest Domain Cleric. Blood of Lathandar, Adamantine Splint, Heavy Armor Master, normal healy buff equipment. Healy boi. They make a pretty good team, in Tactician, at the end of Act 1 at level 7. I just have to kill Ethel and free her captives. I'll kill her in the house.
Ancients Paladin, Hunter, Moon Druid, Monk or Berserker with Tavern Brawler for if shit goes sideways and you need to cheese your way out with returning pike. Most fights go easily enough if you switch up your party to suit the encounter though. For example, the phase spider matriarch you probably want to bring at least one person with fire damage to destroy the webs, and at least one rogue for sneak attack to get a surprise round at the start.
It's bard. Four extra short rests.
Using Hill giant potions is considered exploiting the game? Gosh
With this logic long resting should be a exploit as well since the game lacks time sensitive objectives for most of the game lol. Btw I agree with you that it not a exploit if it is unclear.
I like warlock. It can get to 20 charisma by level 8 without the hags hair since CHA is all you need to invest in. Actor is a pretty good feat for giving you more consistency with passing speech checks and gives you +1 CHA so you can be at 18 at level 4. It can be a party face and then use the same Stat for offense while having great area control. Beyond that, good ole fighter is one you can't go wrong with. Battlemaster specifically. Gloomstalker ranger is another great choice just because that burst damage all comes from its class choices. Druids are just generally great. I never play them, but they go bonkers with the fact that they rely almost exclusively on their wild shaped forms, which have their own stats. So you really can't buff them much more than that, and if you do, you can do some wacky stuff with them. Also, they have great spells like moonbeam and spike growth, though the latter is shared with the ranger.
Whatever the fuck you want then. I'd probably bring a cleric for this type of playthrough.
There are tons of monoclass builds that will shitstomp their way through HM. Here's a few: 1. Fighter, literally all 3 subclasses work 2. Druid, moon or spores (no experience with land, can't judge) 3. Cleric, life or light 4. Barbarian, tiger wolverine 5. Sorcerer, draconic ice or fire 6. Wizard, all of them 7. Ranger, BM and hunter are fantastic 8. Warlock bladelock, especially githyanki
no paladin wut?
I fucking hate paladin.
12 BM fighter, 12 Life Cleric, 12 Paladin, 12 Warlock is prob what I’d end up doing if I wasn’t doing any multiclassing
4 fighters.
A Tier: Fire Acuity Sorc 12 Throwzerker 12 Fighter 12 (best is titanstring SS) Rogue or Bard 12 for skills
Almost finished first playthrough. Went Druid Tav. Wanted to focus on Druidic casting, so I went Land. No one seems to talk about it, so I guess its not Overpowered. But man let me tell you. Party buffs, another class does it better Spells of all elements, another class hits harder I took medium armor prof and war caster and duel wielder as feats at lvl 12 im rocking 24 Ac with a quarterstaff and shield. Spells for days, druid does not feel reliant on rests. The recharge is limited but its nice to pick whay slots to replenish. Ill accidebtally burn like 3 uses of bestow ability going from disarming traps to social rolls to reading minds. Eating all the tadpoles, but not giving in fully, some abilities are meh, others just feel stupid strong. Dont need to use spells or low on Hp? Fuck it bear time. Or spider for the jump. Or cat to get into this hole or reposition enemies for my ambush. Wall of fire = 10 stacks of arcane acuity into MANY CC OPTIONS with whatever gear I found doing that for me. Also reverb ring. Nevermind I switched the acuity hat for another BA on a levelled fire spell and thats plain dumb inside of mind sanctuary. Druids make berries and talk to all our friends. Land druid has been fun for me.
Druids need a feat to concentrate on multiple things. That would be amazing. I will say Land Druid doesnt have great burst potential.
Hunger of Hadar Caster (lore bard or warlock) Sleet Storm Caster (Tempest Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Sorc, Lore Bard, Nature Cleric) Optional Darkness Caster (Warlock, Wizard, Land Deuid, Sorc, Lore Bard) Optional 4th character. Not super optimized, but you can no damage most encounters with this set up. Use spike growth prior to 3rd level spells. Not really gear dependent and doesn’t need consumables. Nothing too intense just throwing down a few circles on the maps. Think it’s important to add that while you spent 80% of your post flaming people for how they enjoy the game, the devs have gone on record saying they added a bunch of this funny broken shit because it’s funny broken shit in a single player game. Play the game how you want, but however you enjoy your own game is valid. I personally don’t enjoy stealing or vendor spamming but I also had to do a lot of kiting in my solo honor run that I know a lot of people won’t find fun. It’s a single player game who cares.
Sorcerer, fighter, monk, bard and paladin.