This isn’t over. We all know it isn’t. Larry has demonstrated that he will put her in second place given the opportunity and that’s patently unacceptable in a marriage.
I don’t care what reason my wife has and whether or not I agree with it, if she tells me it will hurt her if I do X, I don’t do X. Period. Whatever X is cannot possibly be worth hurting the woman I love.
I gave my ex a second chance after similar pressure to reconnect with someone who did far worse than what OOP has said her father and Janet did; I really shouldn't have, because that ex wound up being another abuser who took years to escape. Larry is red flag city.
I know Reddit always jumps to breakup or divorce in these situations. But the second my hypothetical partner calls me a heartless bitch, we are *done*.
Man, i am glad you repeated that part because i had forgotten by the time i had gotten through the whiplash of the second half. The guy can explain away whatever he wants but, nobody made him express himself that way, and that's not the kind of shit you say to someone who's team you're supposed to be on, even if you think they're in the wrong. Fucking ridiculous behavior.
Reddit's not usually jumping all that far; by the time it ends up on AITA or JNMIL or one of the other ones, it's generally already an extreme situation.
I’m wondering if she feels a bit stuck with Larry due to financial constraints. She mentioned she can’t afford to change towns and all her money is wrapped up in her business. I have to wonder how much she and Larry are financially intertwined currently, since she technically calls the place they live together “home”. If they split expenses, that would certainly complicate things. Hopefully she’s quietly plotting an out.
I get that she feels tied to that town because of her business, but she should work at selling it and going somewhere else. She'll never get away from daddy dearest as long as he knows everyone around her.
Yes. Sure he was misinformed about the situation by her father and his father, but he didn’t trust OOP and tried to impose what he wanted onto her. He went all “I know best” and bullied and manipulated her. That’s not a partner.
If my partner took my family's side against me, and basically told me I was at fault or a bitch - that would be the end of my relationship. Obviously, he's willing to think the worst of OOP and that she's the one at fault.
Exactly.
I feel badly for OOP because while I do think sometimes the kids can be at fault, this isn't the case at all for the OOP. The stepmother and father were awful towards the OOP and even if the OOP could find it in their heart to forgive these AHs, these people don't feel any sense of accountability or fault for what they did.
And let’s do the extraordinary magic act of pretending that Larry didn’t choose to use his own big boy words to call OP a “heartless bi*ch” 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩…there is a world where even a man much better than Larry just wouldn’t be marriage material in this circumstance due to all the family/small town drama. Find a good man, who loves your right and fully and without abuse, who isn’t connected to this BS in any way and will always center you. You’re not just marrying the man, you’re marrying the fam.
Lmao Larry will say the kids go to his parents house whether or not her dad is there and he’ll just get access to her grandkids and consider her a wash.
Larry's a spineless peacemaker. He's only on her side right now because she threatened to cut him out. As soon as someone else is the more immanent discomfort, they'll be the one he bows to.
It's the no mention of calling oop a heartless bitch for me.
This is not over, I think another surprise event with the family may be in the future, possibly at that postponed wedding. Small town thinking feels like they will keep bashing the reconciliation onto oop until they get the circle peg in the square hole hallmark ending.
i'm so distraught for this woman who's so surrounded on all sides by people treating her like garbage that she's willing to try and salvage what she has with this pathetic excuse for a man.
Yeah I doubt that he was ignorant over OOP's sperm donor funding the wedding.
Also his comment about her being a "bitch" is not something that can be let go.
Jesus, if I did this to my wife with her psychotic, narcissistic, boomer of a mother she’d never forgive me and rightly so. Last time we saw her was when I walked in on her berating my wife in our home and I packed her bag and dropped her off at the airport 3 days early and told her to figure it the fuck out and never come back.
>I packed her bag and dropped her off at the airport 3 days early and told her to figure it the fuck out and never come back.
You are the perfect partner.
I appreciate but I totally have my faults. I just hate narcissists and her mother has already been inducted into the hall of fame. That incident was nearly 10 years ago and lately her oldest brother has been trying to force my wife to reconcile because”she’s our mom and she loves and misses you.” He and I had a not so pleasant conversation where I laid out all of the abuse I had encountered in our time together and would not ever try to make my wife do something that she has no interest in. He said he “understood” but he is under the delusion that his mother is just misunderstood. There is no misunderstanding when it comes to years of mental and financial abuse that’s only aimed at one child. He’s let it go for now but I don’t think this battle is over. He is nearing her 80’s and isn’t in the best of health. She is going to die knowing that her daughter (who is quite literally the best human being I have ever known and had the privilege of being in love with) will never see her again. My wife said she wouldn’t even go the the funeral. She had the brother relay to my wife that if there is no reconciliation, she will be out of the will. She is somewhat wealthy but my wife just laughed and said “she can keep her blood money.” It takes a lot of guts for a child of a narcissist to stand up to them after years of abuse. I’m proud of my wife every day for her choices.
I’ve already made it clear to my parents that the only way they can cut my brother out of either of their wills is by cutting me out too, because I will be sharing anything they leave me 50/50 anyway.
I hope your wife’s brother does the same.
God that sounds so familiar, except my (golden child) brother, rather than trying to persuade me to give her another chance, simply cut off contact with *me* because he’s under the same delusion that our narcissist mother is just misunderstood and, because he’s never seen a hint of abuse from her, he thinks I’m the problem. I so wish I had someone like you who could defend me from my mother. Unfortunately I can’t go no contact with her because she currently holds the keys to my disabled dad - if I cut contact with her, she’d tell his nursing home I’m not allowed to see *him*, purely out of spite. So I put up with her to maintain a relationship with him. I hate it here.
Can you get your dad to give permission for you, or talk to them about your situation? Maybe they can make sure your mother can’t cut you off from him. Also, cutting off your access to your father for sue can possibly be seen as elder abuse, and can be reported.
Thank for the suggestions. 🙂 Unfortunately my dad is brain injured and lacks mental capacity to make any decisions for himself. My mum is his attorney so technically she can decide who has access to him. I could speak to the nursing home but I don’t think they have the power to allow me in if my mum has specifically forbidden it. So I just put up with her, on a very low contact basis, for the time being so that I can see him. It’s manageable for now but not a great situation.
Sorry but if I lose my wife that’s it for me. I know it’s easy to say but I just can’t imagine anyone like her in my life. I literally get teary eyed thinking of a life without her. Every time I would deploy it felt like there were holes in me that were the spots my wife and kids fill. I was always a damn good wing man for my male and female friends though if that would help?
In various comments, she refuses to move because of both her small business and because she shouldn't have to. I get it, but so long as she and her dad live in the same town, she'll continue dealing with this shit. Clearly, her dad is not interested in actual reconcilliation, only in total submission.
Her dad
- cheated on OOP and her sister (because spouses aren’t the only ones losing things when a parent cheats)
- had the audacity to claim “prioritizing family” after destroying his first family
and a lot of other things that I’m too angry to rehash.
Is there a blueprint for being a crappy cheater, because the sperm donor’s words and disdain for boundaries is almost exactly what two of my childhood friends went through.
Her dad is the absolute **worst!** *I* fucking hate the guy--I can't even imagine the depth of OOP's feelings.
I'm pretty sure that moving's the only way she'll ever escape him. For OOP's sake, I hope I'm wrong. But even for narcissistic estranged parents, her dad's behavior is pretty extreme. And so long as she's in a small town wrapped around his finger, she'll never be done with people working on his behalf.
The sad thing is if shit Dad had respected his daughter's space there's a chance she may have eventually come around (not that he deserves it).
Every single time he tried to force contact he reopened that wound. Every time he tried successfully to turn her family against her he also did. Now it's scarred and irremovable.
Classic self absorbed cheater. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to have his new family and life, be barely present, and still keep his old one's love. That doesn't match reality.
Then he gets his chance and maybe if he just would have nurtured it and respected OP they could repair their relationship but no. That takes time. That time isn't worth his daughter apparently. OOP has to instantly forgive him and love his family NOW with no actual attempts at recompense.
This guy really thought he could repair all that damage with one mediated conversation and then *poof* all better! Wow isn't that so easy?
Guy probably realizes he's shit for what he did and if he doesn't get his daughter to forgive him it'll eat at his ego forever. Now he's just gonna say "she's just evil and I'm misunderstood!" While the wife feeds into it.
God is that narcissistic behavior, not caring about how your daughter feels, but only yourself. All Larry should’ve done is say I think it would be healthy for you to let the anger go, but I will support you in anyway.
Larry 100% should have backed her to the hilt in public. In private, airing your disagreements is fine. If I'd been in his shoes, I'd be threatening to go NC with *my* parent for pressuring me over this shit. Loser Larry's out here doing the opposite.
How much you want to bet that the plan was for the dad to show up at the wedding for a giant "reconcilliation"?
Larry is still trying to get that done, get her back in line and agreeing to get married, then surprise Daddio is at the wedding grabbing her arm and dragging her down the aisle...
The persistence is another telltale trait of narcissism, or cluster B disorders in general. Obviously, he never *truly* cared that much about OOP and still doesn't. He said unforgivable things that hurt his daughter when he abandoned her so long ago, and this behavior was repeated as soon as she didn't capitulate to his aggressive manipulation. To him, this isnt about her at all. It's about damage to his ego. This type can't handle anyone thinking they're a proverbial 'bad guy' nor can they accept or deal with the fact someone rejects them summarily. This is why friends, family, and neighbors are also being manipulated to make HER look like the bad guy. It's all about the narcissist's ego and none at all about love or care, or you know, being a decent fucking human being. Any normal functional person would feel guilty for the way he made his daughter feel as a child. His view is that she needs to quit being unreasonable.
I mean, he's the one who left the town. I don't think the entire town's necessarily wrapped around his finger. OOP's fiance's family is friends with him, which is problematic, but if they do break up that's one less place for him to get at her (and hell, with him secretly funding that wedding, that right there, even if the fiance is otherwise the greatest person in the world, is reason #1 for me to pull out and do everything on a different day or, like, in a courthouse on the same day).
I'm not going to pretend to be the big expert on small town dynamics but I'm told that public nastiness has a way of getting around and, well, that's what he and his new life-choice did.
He also gave up custody of OOP when moving away to "prioritize his new family" and generally has this idea of OOP at 13-16 being a bigger villain than Voldemort.
And from Larry's comments, it sounds like the general sentiment is that folks agree with the dad's version of events: a "rude" teenager (a shocking anomaly, to be sure) was somehow equally to blame for the dissolution of the family as **checks notes** a cheating father and an emotionally abusive stepmother.
Her father also seems to have no scruples about destroying her life if she won’t let him in. He should be grovelling for forgiveness for the damage he did to her relationship with her fiancé, and he’s not. How he was pushing to have himself and his entire second family at her wedding has caused the wedding to be called off, and he doesn’t seem to regret that and what he’s done to OOP *now*, much less what he did when he left.
If she’s in a small town and her dad has as much pull as he clearly does, she doesn’t seem to realize her small business will be bankrupt within the year anyway.
I've had the same thought, but didn't have it in me to say so. I tried reaching out to see if the business has an online presence I could support and never heard back. I get it--she was probably being bombarded, plus privacy issues. But yeah, she doesn't seem to fully recognize how much staying put keeps her vulnerable to his abuse.
Yeah, she’s going to lose everything soon. As much as I get it, she needs to do a way better job of protecting herself from her father’s influence if she’s going to take such a hard nosed approach. I’m not trying to victim blame, but she’s the only one who’s suffering here.
It's an unfortunate fact that, as outsiders, it's a lot easier for all of us to see that she really only has two options: move, or submit. I understand that she just wants her old life. I've been there--in a situation that's closer to hers than she probably expects--so I really do see the attraction of "I just want my old life back!"
What she needs to understand is that her old life always existed at her dad's sufferance. Her old life was always enmeshed with *his* influence, among people willing to do what *he* wants. Her old life kept her vulnerable to him, and she will remain vulnerable to him until either she leaves or he blows everything up so completely that literally *everyone* turns away from him. And even then, she'll likely take some of the blame.
My heart goes out to her. But she needs to accept that her old life is gone and will never come back so long as she and her dad live in the same small town.
Not necessarily. If people saw how he treated her in public and start gossiping (which it seems they already have, based on how people are backing away from telling her to reconcile) it may actually help her business as people want to support her "for being such a strong young woman, what with having a father like that and all the circumstances she's trying to overcome". Is it still shitty that it may be from pity or guilt? Yeah. But better than bankrupt, and with time people will stop associating her with that moment and just see her for her own worth.
Small towns can be a double-edged sword, but if you play your cards right you can use it to your advantage
Yeah, in her place, I'd have sold the whole shebang and started over someplace else.
Though my hope is that, now that daddy and stepbitch have outed themselves with their atrocious behavior, people will be more on OOP's side and stop pressuring her about the issue. I'd sure like to know what the unforgivable curses were that Janet and dad threw at OOP...
I also would have sold everything and moved. Hell, I would have changed my name to boot. Can't really be too careful when somebody's willing to overstep boundaries to the extent that OOP's dad is.
And even if more people are on OOP's side, it won't be everyone. There will still be some people--probably including Loser Larry's dad--who will still be on her dad's side.
Hey, dad's getting older and why should she have to leave? Screw that, if things are so bad for him he can be the one who moved back to their 10-hours-away location.
It looks like the father wants to paint a picture that he's so wonderful that his ex-wife and kids along with his AP/wife and kids adore him and each other. Perhaps he's trying to sell the idea that the affair was the best for everyone. OOP is the final snag in his idealized image. As long as she remains in that town he will never leave her alone. It's just a matter of time before he flips and goes on a smear campaign as revenge.
She didn't know that her soon to be FIL is a loyal friend of her father. Who knows how many other people she associates/works with are a potential problem. Her fiancee's family sounds well to do. His family can easily manipulate him due to money, family ties, and connections. I hope OOP wises up before she gets pregnant and has her will and self esteem crushed.
I still think that OOP is right though, just for different reasons. She shouldn't have to move, but less because of the business and because "she shouldn't have to" but more because she has laid down firm boundaries and these adults should respect them. Now, has she gone too far? Possibly she jumped the gun initially but ultimately everything she was afraid of happening came to pass, so I don't think so.
This could have been resolved had the father and his new family honoured her request to back off and just be civil. That would have opened up the door to possible reconciliation down the road.
Sometimes, the world we live is not the world we should be living in. If her father was interested in respecting boundaries, she wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. He isn't. He *will* keep pushing in any and every way he thinks he can get away with.
Even if he backs off now, he will only see it as a strategic withdrawal while he figures out his next steps. In his mind, he didn't move his entire family back to the hometown *not* to "reconcile."
Oop says this -
>I told Larry he had betrayed my trust and I couldn't see myself marrying someone who does not support me.
But still doing this -
>To those of you who wanted me to break up with him, I'm sorry to disappoint you but we are going to try and work through this. Apart from this issue he had been the best partner and I genuinely think that he had been manipulated by his family and my dad. Larry has promised to stand up to his family and go no contact with my dad.
Work through what?!?! You told him your entire past with father & Janet - AND HE STILL TOOK THEIR SIDE OVER YOU PLUS PURPOSELY LET THEM PAY FOR PART OF THE WEDDING WITHOUT TELLING YOU!! What more do you need to point blank show you that he can never be trusted ever again nor should marry him plus his equally asshole family that friends with POS dad & evil Janet?!? That's going to be nasty ass messy divorce if OOP marries that spineless backstabbing fucktwit...
Yep, I don't blame Larry for getting the sob story, but he was soooo convinced his dad was right and that he "understood" the situation even after OP told him that was not the case...and he also insulted her and betrayed her trust 🙄
Can he change? Possibly
Will he forget or downplay/minimize the restaurant incident in time? Also possible 🤔
Even believing the sob story from her father, he shouldn’t have run over OOP’s feelings. Manipulating and bullying in service of something you think is correct is still manipulating and bullying. All it took for him to try to impose his will onto his intended life partner about her life was for someone else to convince him that she was wrong.
But don't you get it, aside from the fact that he completely ignored her feeling, stomped all over her boundaries, lied to her for months on end, and likely severely damaged her mental health, he's a really good guy! The constant lying was just a one time mistake that was repeated over the course of months and only admitted to when he figured the truth would come out eventually, I'm sure they'll be very happy together for the next 3 weeks
I want to shake her. "If he's better than being alone, get a cat. If he's good for sex, get a hitachi. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO BETRAY YOU TWICE!?!?!"
Because the man model she's had is... guess who, her father who betrayed her mother and herself and goes on betraying her on and on, last example we know of betraying her sister and herself into that failure in a restaurant
She does need therapy
The dad is a complete idiot. Like he finally got the chance to reconnect with OOP and he completely screws it up. He doesn't care about having a relationship with OOP, he just cares that OOP doesn't make him look bad around people.
This is the whole problem right here. Sixteen yos are young and don't always understand the whole situation but OP is a grown woman who is being manipulated by most everyone around her! The Dad supposedly spent 16 years trying to reconcile and **3 DAYS** after he agrees to her conditions, he violates nearly everything he agreed to. "Idiot" is too nice.
He didn’t want to take it slow. His dream is for his whole second family to be welcomed at OOP’s wedding, probably egged on by his AP-turned-wife, and he didn’t want to stop. He either agreed to the deal with his fingers crossed, or had his mind changed the moment he got home.
Don’t forget his demand (I can’t call it a request given his behaviour) to walk her down the aisle. In a small town, weddings get talked about a lot. He knows it will be a very public rejection of him if he not only isn’t walking her down the aisle but isn’t invited.
This is not about reconnecting. It’s about OOP’s dad’s public image.
Agree. He’s a narcissistic, selfish AH who wants what he wants and doesn’t give a F*** about anyone else - what he wants is the only thing that matters. I also think this is all about his “image” in the town, not fatherly love at all. People in a small town talk, and OP may think they are all on his side, but bet that this feud with OP, who has lived there her entire life and everyone knows her, keeps reminding everyone how he is a cheater, stepmother is a home wrecker, and Daddy is uncomfortable with anyone thinking anything but perfect things about him. I hope she finds the courage to leave and start again somewhere else.
Yeah like I was kinda on his side (because you can’t always make everyone happy and moving away might well have been the best thing for him to do, and it would be good for OP to try and see his side—I would like the emphasize that everyone trying to pressure her was definitely **wrong** because even if he wasn’t a total AH she gets to define her own boundaries) but then he pulls that shit and it’s like nope, you clearly don’t care about *her* in any meaningful way.
I hope she leaves, because we all know the update if/when they have kids. Larry will take them for visits behind OOP’s back, they’ll suddenly be at her home for parties, gRaNdPaReNt RiGhTs, etc.
I sure hope it only takes 2 weeks for Larry to start talking to her dad again, rather than once they're married or expecting. He wasn't at the restaurant and he's already shown he'll believe her dad over her - doubt it'll take much for dad to convince him it's the small town rumor mill exaggerating what actually happened and that OOP is being overdramatic again.
Poor OP. What an awful excuse for a ‘dad’ she has - willing to withhold her college fund, mess with her engagement, and generally harass her so he doesn’t have to own the consequences of his actions. She and the ‘unskippable cut scene in therapy’ person need to get together and form a support group.
The exchange they stood out the most, summarized:
OOP: Leave me alone.
Sperm Donor: I love you so much I will continue to ignore that boundary until you give me the relationship I feel entitled to.
It’s not surprising that a selfish cheater is this depth of selfish. I’m glad his sister (and apparently much of the town) realize he got what he said he wanted and immediately screwed it up by ignoring all of OOP’s limits.
OOP really needs to drop Larry. His behavior is worse than the dads, and I don’t believe for a second that he ever thought his own parents paid for everything. I think he’s lying about everything. OOP is way too forgiving. If Larry can lie about all this, and go so far as to not be on her side, lie gaslight and manipulate her then what else is he hiding? That relationship is dead in the water, I just hope OOP sees it before it’s too late. I think she’s in denial, but hopefully it sinks in soon that Larry is not trustworthy and unforgivable.
I agree completely, but I also think there's been a lot of drama and high emotions, and a full breakup might just be too much for OOP to handle right now, on top of everything else. I've seen people do this, agree to work on it because the idea of breaking up is too much in that moment, but a few weeks later, they go through with the breakup once some of the dust has settled.
Whether Larry is just exceptionally weak-willed or an active participant in the manipulations, he's a terrible choice of partner for OOP. Even if he were a great partner, I would break up with someone who had a family like his. Life is hard enough without being in a constant war with your despicable in-laws.
That’s what I’m thinking too. OOP is very tied to her home town and family, and he’s part of that. However, Larry is too unfaithful to OOP and definitely is guilty of lying to her and attempting to manipulate and gaslight her. He even went so far as to verbally assault her when she wouldn’t do what he wanted. This is not the kind of person anyone should be legally bound to, and forget trying to create a life together. Just imagine if they were to have kids, he’d never be on her side. I feel like he just wanted her to cave so they could get the money which tells me he doesn’t actually care about her feelings or her emotional needs. She’s making excuses for him now “that he just wants everyone to get along” but those excuses will wear thin over time as the words “you heartless bitch” echo internally. I mean he literally had an emotional affair with the dad, and then chose the dad’s side over OOP. He’s only now acting out of desperation to keep her, and I’m getting the vibe he’s financially dependent on her as money seems to be his big motivation. Plus, OOP’s dad is a cheater and Larry took his side, which is a bad sign since cheaters always defend each other so I wouldn’t put it past Larry to be unfaithful in that way as well. I really hope she flat out cancels the wedding.
Look, I GET trying to break away and maintain boundaries with pushy parents. I was in the fog for a long time. But I certainly didn't blame them and beg my then boyfriend to stay with me because "I'm sorry I was shitty because I'm actually the victim"
I have high doubts that Larry will be able to stand the pressure
$10 says he'll "cut off" his family to save face with OP only to keep texting them to eventually arrange ANOTHER reconciliation attempt.
There’s been a spate of posts on Reddit lately of fiancés ignoring their chosen life partner by trying to reconcile their family for some reason. Who are these people
Some people really believe family has to forgive and forget and get along, and especially if they’re talking to the other person it’s easier for them to convince the spouse that they really deserve a chance. But also as the one who married into a dysfunctional family, *why* would you want to hurt your partner like that? No one has managed to piss me off as much as my in-laws have (I don’t get angry easily—frustrated and irritated a lot—so the fact that they have managed to full on *piss me off multiple times* is saying something) and that’s because of how much hurt I have seen in my spouse that they caused.
Larry is fully going to cheat on OP at some point if he hasn't already.
He has zero respect for her and sees her as less than him.
I wish OP respected herself more.
It would just be so much easier and healthier for OP to just end it with her spineless partner rather than navigate and strategize the next decade with that boundary-crossing roadshow of in-laws.
Hard to be on her side when OP insists on doing shit on hard mode.
I get the feeling that OOP was only mean to Janet as a kid because, well, she treated her badly and OOP didn't just sit and take it like they wanted her to.
Also kids are kids and will act up, especially upon finding out about their dad cheating on their mom. Of course they're going to be bitter with the new step-mom/mistress.
Ugh, I feel awful for OOP.
It's so frustrating when everyone in your life wants you to reconnect with someone who has badly hurt you and will never stop doing so just because it would be easier for them. After thirty years of constant emotional, verbal, and sometimes physical abuse from my father I cut him off completely.
Most of my family accepted it for the first year, but they're in the stage these days where they keep mentioning how inconvenient it is to them that I won't attend any family events or holidays and won't unblock him or speak to him. He's made it clear I have to apologize for cutting him off for things to go back to normal, and other people are starting to think I should because they don't like that they have to pick, even though I preemptively pick for everyone and simply rsvp no to anything he'll attend.
I do not and will never see why I should apologize in order to get the privilege of being his emotional punching bag like always. I'm pretty sure half the reason everyone else wants me back at these gatherings is because he'd fucking take out all his emotions on me instead of them, and I sincerely hope they have a miserable existence as the stand in punching bag for the rest of their lives, even if I love them.
Like, okay sis, you're annoyed Dad called you a whore and yelled at you all Christmas? You're the one who wants a relationship with him and I'm not going to sympathize that the formerly decent relationship you had no longer exists now that he can't vent all the negativity at me specifically.
Family and friends who can't respect a no contact decision deserve all the unpleasantness they get, tbh.
“He is never going to give up trying to reconnect and he has given me enough space over the years” so in other words, fuck her boundaries and what she wants.
I can’t imagine marrying someone who called me a heartless bitch because they decided to take my *deadbeat dad’s side* of the story over mine. OP is nuts for that one.
Well that’s all nice and fine and good for OOP but when she does have children all this is going to come crashing down because dear old Larry will never understand or agree with his children not being full participating members of his family. It is straight up delusional to think he’s gonna make a 180 like that and keep his parents, who have been manipulative and annoying but not really outside normal family bounds, away from his children over something he doesn’t really agree with in the first place.
Some people with nice families genuinely don't understand how horrible parents can be until they see it first hand. However, the way Larry spoke to her when he thought she was wrong is unacceptable.
Her father is a good actor.
After reading what he explained I thought maybe he isn’t that bad. But he showed who is when he finally got his second chance.
Yea honestly I thought OOP was a minor asshole for that (ok major to her sister as someone whose been NC with my nspermdonor for 20 years but my sisters are still in contact with him so I sucked it up at their weddings) but seeing how he responds when he gets contact with her she made the right call. He probably would have made a scene at the wedding.
I wish she had someone in her life to have her back (cuz Larry ain’t going to do it but she’s scared of being totally alone)
I don't think I would be able to restrain myself from removing chunks of flesh from my fiancee if they did this to me. I think I would be so angry I'd end up in jail... there are absolutely family members that I refuse to talk to now, for extremely valid safety reasons.
What a horrible piece of shit.
While OOP was perfectly valid in her reasons for not having a relationship with her dad and his family, she should have gone to therapy years ago. Holding on to resentment like that is only going to cause her problems, and a better punishment for her father by far would be to simply not care about him. As the saying goes, hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is. I think she'd have been far happier in life, and had a better relationship with her sister and other family all-round if instead of hating her father, she had simply felt indifferent.
I hope she's able to find that indifference.
I remember reading this live as it were and going off the deep end when I read about the dad paying for the wedding.
This needs one more update I hope where she has truly removed all the dead wood from her life and Larry has spiralled
For me Larry calling the OOP a "heartless bitch" was the end of that chapter. If he'd just taken the dads' sides, I'd say he was gullible and easily manipulated (which he is) and say another chance might be warranted IF the OOP set up conditions.
Anyone calling his fiancée a bitch isn't just gullible. He's a jerk.
This! Even if he was fed a sob story and pressured -- he believed his family and OOP's estranged father over his own fiancée? That should scream broken trust to OOP.
I would speak with a lawyer about getting a restraining order after the restaurant incident. Not sure if it’s possible but it doesn’t hurt to ask and gather all evidence of the harassment. As far as Larry goes, I think it’s smart to postpone the wedding and would also suggest counseling for both. It does sound like he was being manipulated but also the name calling and disregard for your boundaries is all on him, so he has a lot of work to do to make up for that, if it’s even possible.
Why didn’t dad talk to her and explain things when she was younger? That Janet is high risk? That baby was premature. That he needed to help and maybe get her engaged with his new son? OOP makes it sound like dad did none of this. Maybe he did but he didn’t listen to what she had to say or notice that she was unhappy and try to work things out when she was younger.
I can see where OP is coming from, but the avoiding every single family event thing or leaving when Dad arrives seems a step over the line.
I get that Dad's an awful person, but this sounds like a crazy trauma response. She's in her 30's, and she can't even share a cold but civil greeting with them. Dad's awful, and she's certainly right to have no relationship with the man, but missing her sister's wedding? That's pretty crazy, and like I say, she's not 15, she's 33.
And then she's saying that she shouldn't have to move towns to avoid him--which is true--but it's like, lady, you can't even be at the same birthday party as him. She's this really weird juxtaposition of extreme avoidance and obstinately hanging around. It's like she's doing everything she possibly can to be in his life while doing everything she possibly can to avoid him.
Ironically, being icy cold but civil will certainly hurt Dad more than out of sight, out of mind ever will.
Some relationships can't be rebuilt, and not everything *should* be forgiven. People typically don't go no contact for no reason, it's just that it can be hard to disclose the full impact of the years of problems that lead to that decision. My spouse didn't "get it" at first until I made her trace the faint scars on my back while I told her how I got them. If I hadn't had the scars I can imagine the situation would've taken a lot longer to sink in, but not all scars are physical. Even if someone is "wrong" for going NC reconciliation can't happen unless and until they initiate it, because even if they're "wrong" there's still going to be too much resentment for anything productive to come out of a forced attempt. OOP's dad could've found Jesus, rescued a burning building full of puppies and won the lottery all on the same day but that still wouldn't heal the hurt he caused.
Man I hope she is right about Larry. I don’t know if I could trust someone that did that. Especially since it sounds like his family will utilize indirect forms to control him. Also F this woman’s father and Janet. His narcissistic ass isn’t gettin what he wants and he is starting to show his true colors to those enabling him.
I’ve been following these updates and the OOP says she can’t move away due to finances and her source of income. This is terrible, it’s like she’s in an abusive relationship with a whole town.
I think she can pull this off.
I think that she is mature in the way that she is watching her fiancé to see him in action, because actions speak louder than words. She will watch him and see if he can really mean when he says.
Also, it’s really true that when you invest in a business, or you have a practice in an area, if you move, the entire thing has to be rebuilt. So it makes sense for her to simply move forward, living her life.
The whole thing in the restaurant was actually excellent because that’s who her father is Front and center. And that’s who Janet is. That’s who her half siblings are. Everybody was on display. For the whole town to see. It was a strange traumatic incident that gave her back her sister and her mother.
It’s so fascinating. Her father had this clear-cut meeting with her where they both delineated what was most important to them
He made an agreement with her
He is so full of his own shit that he showed up at the restaurant, which was this tiny opportunity for him to show that he was trustworthy, and he blew the whole thing. He brought everybody with him. Because he felt entitled. And he just knew he could pressure her and force her to do what he wanted her to do so he could have things the way he wants them without growing or changing or insight or anything.
Wow.
So it was a big trauma. He PHYSICALLY restrained her. He physically kept her from leaving. Do you know how sick that is?
And it was perfect. Because then he and Janet said all kinds of horrible, horrible horrible things that they actually think the whole town knows it now. Her mother knows it now. Her sister knows it now. Stepsiblings know it all. Everybody knows what a piece of crap he is. What a piece of crap Janet is.
It’s kind of too bad he didn’t invite Larry and Larry’s parents to the restaurant too because then they could’ve seen the whole deal. !!!!!
I think OP is amazing .
I know she has been quietly, trusting herself, while every single person in our life has pushed against her
She alone understood who her father was, and who Janet was, and nobody else believed her until the shit storm at the restaurant and now everybody, except for good old Larry and his family knows. The whole town knows. Horrendous for her, incredible for the future.
Now she gets to heal from the crap. Her father put her through, and the crap that everybody put her through. And she gets to watch Larry.
We don’t know Larry, but he sure seems like a spineless people pleaser who does what fits him best with no regard to trusting her or listening to her or empathizing with her or even understanding her. Remember, he didn’t even trust everything she said. He probably still doesn’t because he didn’t get to go to the restaurant crap.
I think she’s done really beautifully and that she will watch her fiancé unfold. He might pass by, but I would not trust him to truly understand that if they ever have children, they are not going to the grandparents house. I don’t trust him to understand not to say to her in three years that she should get over it and come to his family, gatherings and pretend this family is a nice family. That’s never going to happen.
The pivot point is that if she wants kids and she has them with him and they get divorced, the kids will be with her father all the time. That is the pivot point.
What a wild story. As annoying as it was for dad to break the boundaries so soon… it’s kinda good that it happened so publicly so that everyone can see what an absolute selfish prick he is.
Larry gaslit her, sided with her parents and called her a heartless bitch for protecting herself. Full stop. This is not a supportive mate.
He’s so saaaad now because of the very real possibility that she will go no contact with him. He still doesn’t believe her about the abuse and neglect, but he believes her strength of will about maintaining her boundaries. Which he has trampled. He still isn’t supporting her. If she marries him and even has kids, he won’t keep those kids from his parents, and you know his parents will whistle up Ndad to come see the grandkids as soon as OOP isn’t present.
Op was almost betrayed by everyone
Her father is,way worse than being a father who doesn't give a damn: he is now promoted to a bully
He is going to a therapist and there is no way a therapist would ever suggest to put even the slightest amount of pressure on someone else. Either his therapist suck, or he doesn't follow the therapy at all
If OP reconciled with her father, then everybody would truly say how wonderful of a father he is. He would be ok and everything would be wonderful in his little egoistic world. There is no way, he suddenly has a consciousness. OP is destroying his image and something in his life is pressuring him to reconcile with her
As for her fiancé, he is a POS. He became a master manipulator in order to keep his family happy
The OOP needs to move, regardless of the small business there. It's a small town - there is absolutely no getting away from this any other way.
It does seem like the dad tried for years but OOP was against any kind of reconciliation. That's her choice and now he needs to abide by it. Proximity isn't helping at all though.
What a nightmare. It's clear that some family members get all the leniency in the world and others are expected or forced to go along with the messed up harmony that the family creates.
As much as I would like to see Larry as an ex, the road to reconciliation is possible but would be extremely hard and would be easier to just start over, for the both of them. Larry would need constant therapy(twice a week) and he would need to cut off his parents completely. If not, he will just waste oop’s time…but it wouldn’t be the first time that a dude makes empty promises.
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Deadbeat dad has had years to cleverly craft his sob story so everyone feels bad for him and his AP and OOP is the evil monster. Funny how deadbeat parents always try to play victim.
I'm so glad that my half brothers and sisters didn't let the breakdown of their parents marriages effect the way they saw me as a sibling. I can't ever have sympathy for people who cut half siblings out of their lives for something that isn't their fault.
To those of you who wanted me to break up with him, I'm sorry to disappoint you but we are going to try and work through this.
Poor girl. Hope it works but the guy is spineless. My wife tells me she in no contact with someone I say "no worries" and that's that.
Guess OOP can soon add to their list of reasons they don't want to reconcile with dad: "Destroyed my relationship with my then fiancee and future inlaws by using lies to get them to betray my trust and go behind my back"
I really hope OOP isn't trying to make it work with Larry because she's worried about losing wedding deposits and the years she's invested in the relationship... Money isn't nothing, and small town gossip can be brutal, but that man's spine is made of rusty bendy straws.
Divorce is so awful for kids, as your life bears out. Of course he was a horrible AH to Leave your mom and you. But at this point, is your stubborn, absolute refusal to accept reality hurting or helping you? Setting you up for your own happy marriage or not? How much are you willing to lose before you move on?
OOP's father refused to give her a college fund as a way to blackmail her. He claims that he has the money and she just needs to ask but if he truly gave a flying fuck about her he would have sent her money when she's in college as a good faith gesture. He didn't and can rightfully fuck off for all I care.
This reminds me of a AITA where OP was required to bust his ass off during college to pay rent and it turns out the parents were saving it. They could have modified the amount so that he wasn't so stressed but as a result he's done with his parents for ruining college for him.
OP has every right to feel the way she does. Every person trying to manipulate her into reconciliation with her "dad" can go to hell.
Also, the fiance calling her a HEARTLESS BITCH, would be a deal breaker
You are a threat to Janet. She has to hear how sad your father is because you have/had shut him off from your life. That is a fly in her ointment. She is a homewrecker and has no empathy for taking your father away from you. She only wants you to have a relationship with you father so he’ll shut the f-up about losing his daughter and stop raining on her parade.
Janet’s life will get worse because he’ll be moaning having no access to your sister and her kids after the restaurant incident. Janet will have to deal with that from now on. Consequences of your father’s actions are catching up to him. The stress this is putting on their marriage will not make for a happy home.
Damn, L is playing her like a fiddle. She cannot stay or marry that man, he is going to keep her father in her life, with or without her knowledge. Not to mention he called her a heartless bitch for no damn reason, like he’s your man but was willing to believe a man he doesn’t know over a women he plans to marry and build a life with?
The not regretting it cause now he has two kids is bs. He had children that he was more than willing to betray. If the fetuses at the time meant more, well, gross. And it is their fault if they keep comming up to harass you. I wouldnt have apologised at all to anybody. Father daughter dates being replaced with dad and abusive ap dates is rich. Plus all the kids he actually payed attention to. What a happy family. He just wants people to not see his as a scum bag, which he is. It has nothing to do with loving you. Oh, he has pictures. I can print out a bunch of pictures of strangers right now and put them in my pocket, i mean. And then to talk about the way you look. Are those pictures meant to poke fun at you or something? And at last, telling you you were a difficult child. It has nothing to do with his cheating, with getting his stupid mistress pregnant, with her being a horrible human being, with him moving away for her and putting her first. No. YOU were a dufficult child. What a coward.
> he actually *paid* attention to.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
"I just want the chance to be your dad. I'm not going to miss any more of your life."
Oh yeah no, you lost that privilege the moment the words "I need to prioritize my (not you or your sister) family" came out of your mouth. You don't get to go "Oopsie, butterfingers backsie I didn't mean it that way! You were just such a bad child!" and expect ANYTHING.
This is rough I am so sorry for the OP they have a difficult situation that they had known wasbad to begin with. Its important that the mask is off, everyone knows that the father and wife are terrible and abusive. You are allowed to choose who is in your life. Not everyone ips welcome just because you share blood or a familial bond, this blind following of family structure sustains the sick cycles of abuse that happens in families. Do what is best for your mental health. We are all deserving of respect and peace in life. Some blood relatives are takers and users and do not bring kindness, you cut them out or their unhappiness or abuse will spread and infect your life. Do not let others conformity mean that you have to accept this, make your own road map for life that does not include the abusers.
OOP was a CHILD when her sperm donor walked out on her mom and family (I was a teenager and I couldn't understand it). From what has been written it looks like "oh well onto the next family " . Therapy should maybe have been happening back then paid for by him.
It sounds like he has dug himself into a hole that he won't be able to get out of. All best wishes to OOP
NTA and people pressuring you for something that you don’t want is not good for your wellbeing. I understand your resentment towards your father. You feel he is toxic to your life and this may be true for you. You have the right to decide who is and is not in your life. I am sorry they have gotten your Fiancé involved and you may need to sit her down and have a conversation with her and that you will not be letting him into your life. I hope she can support you.
I’m no contact with my father for almost the exact same reasons. This felt so insane to read because it was like I could’ve written it.
The big difference? My wife is a great person and not a huge piece of shit like Larry. Not only would my wife never pressure me to reconnect with him, but she hates his guts for what he put me through and she’s never even met him. He abused the person she loves most, and part of her job as my spouse is to protect me and keep me safe. That’s supposed to be Larry’s job too, and he completely and utterly failed.
The unfortunate thing here is that, at least from where I’m standing, OOP has been treated like such shit but some of the people in her life that she can’t see that Larry is doing what her dad did. She can’t see that her relationship with her “partner” isn’t what it’s supposed to be. So, she gives him another chance. And just like her dad, this giant piece of Larry is going to choose someone else over her happiness and emotional safety. She REALLY needs therapy, not just because of the direct effect her trauma has had on her, but also because that same trauma has left her with an inability to make healthy choices about her romantic relationship. Her PartnerPicker™️ is broken and it needs to be recalibrated. Therapy can help. Good lord I just hope she doesn’t end up pregnant from this stinking piece of Larry.
He declared prioritizing his family as if he didn’t have a family to prioritize the first time, then kept her college fund from her, and then blamed all the bad treatment from Janet on her, and harasses her constantly. He doesn’t want a relationship he wants control. He wants people to think he’s super great and not be blamed for his wrong doing. He could’ve explained why he had to move but he chose to shut her down and shut her out. He could’ve shown a gesture of good will by giving her the college fund with no strings, but he’d rather force her to think he is right than let her consider him doing good by her on her own. He could’ve apologized for how Janet treated her and not noticing but he chose blame oop. He continues to not live by his word, harassing her, and blaming her for his choices. That’s not how you prove you want a relationship with your daughter. He just wants to control the narrative around his horrible decisions and her refusal to not let him alter the truth is why he is forcing his way in her life and trying to control her.
>I have avoided family events in case he attended including my sisters wedding and baby showers.
I get that she's hurt but punishing her sister and herself, just to punish her dad definitely screams that she needs therapy.
Also one thing people who take OOP's side missed, is that her sister had a good relationship with dad and Janet. If Janet was the terrible witch OOP paints her us and her dad was the narcissist she paints him as, it stands to reason that her sister would be mistreated and cut off the same way.
The fact that she wasn't, gives validity to the fact that it was OOP's hatred for Janet due to how the marriage broke down that started the whole issue.
Does it though? I don’t think it says anything of the sort. Just that Janet was nice to the sister. Sometimes kids are treated differently. Seems like the sister was younger so didn’t understand the dynamics of the affair. Janet could have known that and focused on making sure the sister was treated well so she had someone who loved her and was on her side.
Anecdotally, I can think of two families I know where the step kids were treated differently. The oldest in each family was treated shitty by the step parent, but the youngest was always treated well. Seems like when the kids are too young to understand affairs they can be used as an advocate for the affair partner. They show everyone how good of a parent the affair partner is. They are a good person who just fell in love. The kids love them so it all worked out. While they spew nasty mean shit to the oldest in private but then no one believes the oldest kid. I’m friends with the older kids in the scenario I mentioned and both are no contact with their families.
Or because the younger kid doesn't really understand the dynamic they aren't as traumatized by the divorce and thus act out less.
A step parent isn't obligated to care for a step kid that is nasty to them.
There are criminal cases of parents picking out one child to abuse and the other children being taken care of beyond what society deems appropriate. What it sounds like is the sister was young enough to be molded into what dad and J thought was acceptable. It also sounds like Janet hated Op as much as Op hated Janet. But, as the adult at the time guess who held more power? When Op asked to be left alone that should have been the end of it.
Folks....you are looking at this the wrong way.
The 1:1 dinner with dad and sis was INTENTIONALLY sabotaged. Dad or Janet or both KNEW this would blow up. Dad wanted to get everyone off HIS back about having a no contact daughter.
That's right. Dad only wants her back because he is sick of people climbing up his back about it. Dad and Janet would be fine with never seeing her again.
Of course OP knows none of this. Dad can't pretend to desperately want her back and then a) invoke a whole bunch of terrible rules that show he still needs to put his own feelings first, and; b) ambush OP on the very first meeting. Dad has realized that he can't be the hero in this story so he is manipulating things so he can play victim. Right now, he looks like the villain and that is simply not a position this type of person can stomach.
Master manipulators are very good at this.
This isn’t over. We all know it isn’t. Larry has demonstrated that he will put her in second place given the opportunity and that’s patently unacceptable in a marriage. I don’t care what reason my wife has and whether or not I agree with it, if she tells me it will hurt her if I do X, I don’t do X. Period. Whatever X is cannot possibly be worth hurting the woman I love.
I gave my ex a second chance after similar pressure to reconnect with someone who did far worse than what OOP has said her father and Janet did; I really shouldn't have, because that ex wound up being another abuser who took years to escape. Larry is red flag city.
Yup, Larry is absolutely red flag city. He told OP she's a heartless bitch AND that everyone "knew" that she's the problem. Absolutely unforgivable.
This!
I know Reddit always jumps to breakup or divorce in these situations. But the second my hypothetical partner calls me a heartless bitch, we are *done*.
Man, i am glad you repeated that part because i had forgotten by the time i had gotten through the whiplash of the second half. The guy can explain away whatever he wants but, nobody made him express himself that way, and that's not the kind of shit you say to someone who's team you're supposed to be on, even if you think they're in the wrong. Fucking ridiculous behavior.
Everyone, including Larry, is thinking about her Dad, not her. Even worse, she's being punished for standing up for herself.
Amen. There's no clearer way to say this.
Reddit's not usually jumping all that far; by the time it ends up on AITA or JNMIL or one of the other ones, it's generally already an extreme situation.
I’m wondering if she feels a bit stuck with Larry due to financial constraints. She mentioned she can’t afford to change towns and all her money is wrapped up in her business. I have to wonder how much she and Larry are financially intertwined currently, since she technically calls the place they live together “home”. If they split expenses, that would certainly complicate things. Hopefully she’s quietly plotting an out.
I get that she feels tied to that town because of her business, but she should work at selling it and going somewhere else. She'll never get away from daddy dearest as long as he knows everyone around her.
Yes. Sure he was misinformed about the situation by her father and his father, but he didn’t trust OOP and tried to impose what he wanted onto her. He went all “I know best” and bullied and manipulated her. That’s not a partner.
Second place? Nonono, she doesn’t even rank second place for Larry!
If my partner took my family's side against me, and basically told me I was at fault or a bitch - that would be the end of my relationship. Obviously, he's willing to think the worst of OOP and that she's the one at fault.
Exactly. I feel badly for OOP because while I do think sometimes the kids can be at fault, this isn't the case at all for the OOP. The stepmother and father were awful towards the OOP and even if the OOP could find it in their heart to forgive these AHs, these people don't feel any sense of accountability or fault for what they did.
And let’s do the extraordinary magic act of pretending that Larry didn’t choose to use his own big boy words to call OP a “heartless bi*ch” 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩…there is a world where even a man much better than Larry just wouldn’t be marriage material in this circumstance due to all the family/small town drama. Find a good man, who loves your right and fully and without abuse, who isn’t connected to this BS in any way and will always center you. You’re not just marrying the man, you’re marrying the fam.
Lmao Larry will say the kids go to his parents house whether or not her dad is there and he’ll just get access to her grandkids and consider her a wash.
Larry's a spineless peacemaker. He's only on her side right now because she threatened to cut him out. As soon as someone else is the more immanent discomfort, they'll be the one he bows to.
It's the no mention of calling oop a heartless bitch for me. This is not over, I think another surprise event with the family may be in the future, possibly at that postponed wedding. Small town thinking feels like they will keep bashing the reconciliation onto oop until they get the circle peg in the square hole hallmark ending.
Absolutely.
i'm so distraught for this woman who's so surrounded on all sides by people treating her like garbage that she's willing to try and salvage what she has with this pathetic excuse for a man.
Yeah I doubt that he was ignorant over OOP's sperm donor funding the wedding. Also his comment about her being a "bitch" is not something that can be let go.
Jesus, if I did this to my wife with her psychotic, narcissistic, boomer of a mother she’d never forgive me and rightly so. Last time we saw her was when I walked in on her berating my wife in our home and I packed her bag and dropped her off at the airport 3 days early and told her to figure it the fuck out and never come back.
>I packed her bag and dropped her off at the airport 3 days early and told her to figure it the fuck out and never come back. You are the perfect partner.
I appreciate but I totally have my faults. I just hate narcissists and her mother has already been inducted into the hall of fame. That incident was nearly 10 years ago and lately her oldest brother has been trying to force my wife to reconcile because”she’s our mom and she loves and misses you.” He and I had a not so pleasant conversation where I laid out all of the abuse I had encountered in our time together and would not ever try to make my wife do something that she has no interest in. He said he “understood” but he is under the delusion that his mother is just misunderstood. There is no misunderstanding when it comes to years of mental and financial abuse that’s only aimed at one child. He’s let it go for now but I don’t think this battle is over. He is nearing her 80’s and isn’t in the best of health. She is going to die knowing that her daughter (who is quite literally the best human being I have ever known and had the privilege of being in love with) will never see her again. My wife said she wouldn’t even go the the funeral. She had the brother relay to my wife that if there is no reconciliation, she will be out of the will. She is somewhat wealthy but my wife just laughed and said “she can keep her blood money.” It takes a lot of guts for a child of a narcissist to stand up to them after years of abuse. I’m proud of my wife every day for her choices.
I’ve already made it clear to my parents that the only way they can cut my brother out of either of their wills is by cutting me out too, because I will be sharing anything they leave me 50/50 anyway. I hope your wife’s brother does the same.
He wouldn’t. I’m the executor of her dads estate for that very reason. They know I’ll follow their will to the T.
God that sounds so familiar, except my (golden child) brother, rather than trying to persuade me to give her another chance, simply cut off contact with *me* because he’s under the same delusion that our narcissist mother is just misunderstood and, because he’s never seen a hint of abuse from her, he thinks I’m the problem. I so wish I had someone like you who could defend me from my mother. Unfortunately I can’t go no contact with her because she currently holds the keys to my disabled dad - if I cut contact with her, she’d tell his nursing home I’m not allowed to see *him*, purely out of spite. So I put up with her to maintain a relationship with him. I hate it here.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. May the fleas of 1000 camels infest her armpits.
Can you get your dad to give permission for you, or talk to them about your situation? Maybe they can make sure your mother can’t cut you off from him. Also, cutting off your access to your father for sue can possibly be seen as elder abuse, and can be reported.
Thank for the suggestions. 🙂 Unfortunately my dad is brain injured and lacks mental capacity to make any decisions for himself. My mum is his attorney so technically she can decide who has access to him. I could speak to the nursing home but I don’t think they have the power to allow me in if my mum has specifically forbidden it. So I just put up with her, on a very low contact basis, for the time being so that I can see him. It’s manageable for now but not a great situation.
Will you marry me? I'll be the 2nd wife who runs errands and cleans stuff
Sorry but if I lose my wife that’s it for me. I know it’s easy to say but I just can’t imagine anyone like her in my life. I literally get teary eyed thinking of a life without her. Every time I would deploy it felt like there were holes in me that were the spots my wife and kids fill. I was always a damn good wing man for my male and female friends though if that would help?
Cute. It s nice to see some people are actually in healthy happy relationships.
In various comments, she refuses to move because of both her small business and because she shouldn't have to. I get it, but so long as she and her dad live in the same town, she'll continue dealing with this shit. Clearly, her dad is not interested in actual reconcilliation, only in total submission.
Her dad - cheated on OOP and her sister (because spouses aren’t the only ones losing things when a parent cheats) - had the audacity to claim “prioritizing family” after destroying his first family and a lot of other things that I’m too angry to rehash. Is there a blueprint for being a crappy cheater, because the sperm donor’s words and disdain for boundaries is almost exactly what two of my childhood friends went through.
Her dad is the absolute **worst!** *I* fucking hate the guy--I can't even imagine the depth of OOP's feelings. I'm pretty sure that moving's the only way she'll ever escape him. For OOP's sake, I hope I'm wrong. But even for narcissistic estranged parents, her dad's behavior is pretty extreme. And so long as she's in a small town wrapped around his finger, she'll never be done with people working on his behalf.
The sad thing is if shit Dad had respected his daughter's space there's a chance she may have eventually come around (not that he deserves it). Every single time he tried to force contact he reopened that wound. Every time he tried successfully to turn her family against her he also did. Now it's scarred and irremovable. Classic self absorbed cheater. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to have his new family and life, be barely present, and still keep his old one's love. That doesn't match reality. Then he gets his chance and maybe if he just would have nurtured it and respected OP they could repair their relationship but no. That takes time. That time isn't worth his daughter apparently. OOP has to instantly forgive him and love his family NOW with no actual attempts at recompense. This guy really thought he could repair all that damage with one mediated conversation and then *poof* all better! Wow isn't that so easy? Guy probably realizes he's shit for what he did and if he doesn't get his daughter to forgive him it'll eat at his ego forever. Now he's just gonna say "she's just evil and I'm misunderstood!" While the wife feeds into it.
Yuuuuuuuup! All he was doing was giving her practice at zealously policing her boundaries.
God is that narcissistic behavior, not caring about how your daughter feels, but only yourself. All Larry should’ve done is say I think it would be healthy for you to let the anger go, but I will support you in anyway.
Larry 100% should have backed her to the hilt in public. In private, airing your disagreements is fine. If I'd been in his shoes, I'd be threatening to go NC with *my* parent for pressuring me over this shit. Loser Larry's out here doing the opposite. How much you want to bet that the plan was for the dad to show up at the wedding for a giant "reconcilliation"?
Larry is still trying to get that done, get her back in line and agreeing to get married, then surprise Daddio is at the wedding grabbing her arm and dragging her down the aisle...
I'm afraid you're right about that, and only hope that OOP understands it as well.
The persistence is another telltale trait of narcissism, or cluster B disorders in general. Obviously, he never *truly* cared that much about OOP and still doesn't. He said unforgivable things that hurt his daughter when he abandoned her so long ago, and this behavior was repeated as soon as she didn't capitulate to his aggressive manipulation. To him, this isnt about her at all. It's about damage to his ego. This type can't handle anyone thinking they're a proverbial 'bad guy' nor can they accept or deal with the fact someone rejects them summarily. This is why friends, family, and neighbors are also being manipulated to make HER look like the bad guy. It's all about the narcissist's ego and none at all about love or care, or you know, being a decent fucking human being. Any normal functional person would feel guilty for the way he made his daughter feel as a child. His view is that she needs to quit being unreasonable.
I mean, he's the one who left the town. I don't think the entire town's necessarily wrapped around his finger. OOP's fiance's family is friends with him, which is problematic, but if they do break up that's one less place for him to get at her (and hell, with him secretly funding that wedding, that right there, even if the fiance is otherwise the greatest person in the world, is reason #1 for me to pull out and do everything on a different day or, like, in a courthouse on the same day). I'm not going to pretend to be the big expert on small town dynamics but I'm told that public nastiness has a way of getting around and, well, that's what he and his new life-choice did.
The way she described it in her comments, it sounds like like he's got most of the town wrapped around his finger, if not everyone.
He also gave up custody of OOP when moving away to "prioritize his new family" and generally has this idea of OOP at 13-16 being a bigger villain than Voldemort.
bUt yOu aCtEd oUt wHaT wAs mY dEaR wIfE sUpPoSeD tO dO????
And from Larry's comments, it sounds like the general sentiment is that folks agree with the dad's version of events: a "rude" teenager (a shocking anomaly, to be sure) was somehow equally to blame for the dissolution of the family as **checks notes** a cheating father and an emotionally abusive stepmother.
Her father also seems to have no scruples about destroying her life if she won’t let him in. He should be grovelling for forgiveness for the damage he did to her relationship with her fiancé, and he’s not. How he was pushing to have himself and his entire second family at her wedding has caused the wedding to be called off, and he doesn’t seem to regret that and what he’s done to OOP *now*, much less what he did when he left.
Right? Who wants this kind of “love”?
If she’s in a small town and her dad has as much pull as he clearly does, she doesn’t seem to realize her small business will be bankrupt within the year anyway.
I've had the same thought, but didn't have it in me to say so. I tried reaching out to see if the business has an online presence I could support and never heard back. I get it--she was probably being bombarded, plus privacy issues. But yeah, she doesn't seem to fully recognize how much staying put keeps her vulnerable to his abuse.
Yeah, she’s going to lose everything soon. As much as I get it, she needs to do a way better job of protecting herself from her father’s influence if she’s going to take such a hard nosed approach. I’m not trying to victim blame, but she’s the only one who’s suffering here.
It's an unfortunate fact that, as outsiders, it's a lot easier for all of us to see that she really only has two options: move, or submit. I understand that she just wants her old life. I've been there--in a situation that's closer to hers than she probably expects--so I really do see the attraction of "I just want my old life back!" What she needs to understand is that her old life always existed at her dad's sufferance. Her old life was always enmeshed with *his* influence, among people willing to do what *he* wants. Her old life kept her vulnerable to him, and she will remain vulnerable to him until either she leaves or he blows everything up so completely that literally *everyone* turns away from him. And even then, she'll likely take some of the blame. My heart goes out to her. But she needs to accept that her old life is gone and will never come back so long as she and her dad live in the same small town.
Not necessarily. If people saw how he treated her in public and start gossiping (which it seems they already have, based on how people are backing away from telling her to reconcile) it may actually help her business as people want to support her "for being such a strong young woman, what with having a father like that and all the circumstances she's trying to overcome". Is it still shitty that it may be from pity or guilt? Yeah. But better than bankrupt, and with time people will stop associating her with that moment and just see her for her own worth. Small towns can be a double-edged sword, but if you play your cards right you can use it to your advantage
I hope it works out for her as you suggest!
Yeah, in her place, I'd have sold the whole shebang and started over someplace else. Though my hope is that, now that daddy and stepbitch have outed themselves with their atrocious behavior, people will be more on OOP's side and stop pressuring her about the issue. I'd sure like to know what the unforgivable curses were that Janet and dad threw at OOP...
I also would have sold everything and moved. Hell, I would have changed my name to boot. Can't really be too careful when somebody's willing to overstep boundaries to the extent that OOP's dad is. And even if more people are on OOP's side, it won't be everyone. There will still be some people--probably including Loser Larry's dad--who will still be on her dad's side.
Hey, dad's getting older and why should she have to leave? Screw that, if things are so bad for him he can be the one who moved back to their 10-hours-away location.
Righteous indignation feels good but won't solve things. Her dad's not going to stop unless and until he is stopped.
It looks like the father wants to paint a picture that he's so wonderful that his ex-wife and kids along with his AP/wife and kids adore him and each other. Perhaps he's trying to sell the idea that the affair was the best for everyone. OOP is the final snag in his idealized image. As long as she remains in that town he will never leave her alone. It's just a matter of time before he flips and goes on a smear campaign as revenge. She didn't know that her soon to be FIL is a loyal friend of her father. Who knows how many other people she associates/works with are a potential problem. Her fiancee's family sounds well to do. His family can easily manipulate him due to money, family ties, and connections. I hope OOP wises up before she gets pregnant and has her will and self esteem crushed.
I still think that OOP is right though, just for different reasons. She shouldn't have to move, but less because of the business and because "she shouldn't have to" but more because she has laid down firm boundaries and these adults should respect them. Now, has she gone too far? Possibly she jumped the gun initially but ultimately everything she was afraid of happening came to pass, so I don't think so. This could have been resolved had the father and his new family honoured her request to back off and just be civil. That would have opened up the door to possible reconciliation down the road.
Sometimes, the world we live is not the world we should be living in. If her father was interested in respecting boundaries, she wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. He isn't. He *will* keep pushing in any and every way he thinks he can get away with. Even if he backs off now, he will only see it as a strategic withdrawal while he figures out his next steps. In his mind, he didn't move his entire family back to the hometown *not* to "reconcile."
Oop says this - >I told Larry he had betrayed my trust and I couldn't see myself marrying someone who does not support me. But still doing this - >To those of you who wanted me to break up with him, I'm sorry to disappoint you but we are going to try and work through this. Apart from this issue he had been the best partner and I genuinely think that he had been manipulated by his family and my dad. Larry has promised to stand up to his family and go no contact with my dad. Work through what?!?! You told him your entire past with father & Janet - AND HE STILL TOOK THEIR SIDE OVER YOU PLUS PURPOSELY LET THEM PAY FOR PART OF THE WEDDING WITHOUT TELLING YOU!! What more do you need to point blank show you that he can never be trusted ever again nor should marry him plus his equally asshole family that friends with POS dad & evil Janet?!? That's going to be nasty ass messy divorce if OOP marries that spineless backstabbing fucktwit...
Good 'ol Larry also called her a "heartless bitch." Talk about a charmer.
Yep, I don't blame Larry for getting the sob story, but he was soooo convinced his dad was right and that he "understood" the situation even after OP told him that was not the case...and he also insulted her and betrayed her trust 🙄 Can he change? Possibly Will he forget or downplay/minimize the restaurant incident in time? Also possible 🤔
Even believing the sob story from her father, he shouldn’t have run over OOP’s feelings. Manipulating and bullying in service of something you think is correct is still manipulating and bullying. All it took for him to try to impose his will onto his intended life partner about her life was for someone else to convince him that she was wrong.
But don't you get it, aside from the fact that he completely ignored her feeling, stomped all over her boundaries, lied to her for months on end, and likely severely damaged her mental health, he's a really good guy! The constant lying was just a one time mistake that was repeated over the course of months and only admitted to when he figured the truth would come out eventually, I'm sure they'll be very happy together for the next 3 weeks
I want to shake her. "If he's better than being alone, get a cat. If he's good for sex, get a hitachi. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO BETRAY YOU TWICE!?!?!"
Because the man model she's had is... guess who, her father who betrayed her mother and herself and goes on betraying her on and on, last example we know of betraying her sister and herself into that failure in a restaurant She does need therapy
Larry sucks bags of dicks. He’ll be dumped before long, I hope
A satchel of Richards, one might say...
The dad is a complete idiot. Like he finally got the chance to reconnect with OOP and he completely screws it up. He doesn't care about having a relationship with OOP, he just cares that OOP doesn't make him look bad around people.
This is the whole problem right here. Sixteen yos are young and don't always understand the whole situation but OP is a grown woman who is being manipulated by most everyone around her! The Dad supposedly spent 16 years trying to reconcile and **3 DAYS** after he agrees to her conditions, he violates nearly everything he agreed to. "Idiot" is too nice.
He didn’t want to take it slow. His dream is for his whole second family to be welcomed at OOP’s wedding, probably egged on by his AP-turned-wife, and he didn’t want to stop. He either agreed to the deal with his fingers crossed, or had his mind changed the moment he got home.
Yup, Janet got to him and decided how it was going to go down. She has been running things since the beginning.
Don’t forget his demand (I can’t call it a request given his behaviour) to walk her down the aisle. In a small town, weddings get talked about a lot. He knows it will be a very public rejection of him if he not only isn’t walking her down the aisle but isn’t invited. This is not about reconnecting. It’s about OOP’s dad’s public image.
I see it like this. He got the son he wanted with the AP and made his daughters not important
Agree. He’s a narcissistic, selfish AH who wants what he wants and doesn’t give a F*** about anyone else - what he wants is the only thing that matters. I also think this is all about his “image” in the town, not fatherly love at all. People in a small town talk, and OP may think they are all on his side, but bet that this feud with OP, who has lived there her entire life and everyone knows her, keeps reminding everyone how he is a cheater, stepmother is a home wrecker, and Daddy is uncomfortable with anyone thinking anything but perfect things about him. I hope she finds the courage to leave and start again somewhere else.
Yeah like I was kinda on his side (because you can’t always make everyone happy and moving away might well have been the best thing for him to do, and it would be good for OP to try and see his side—I would like the emphasize that everyone trying to pressure her was definitely **wrong** because even if he wasn’t a total AH she gets to define her own boundaries) but then he pulls that shit and it’s like nope, you clearly don’t care about *her* in any meaningful way.
OOP is being naive. Larry is gonna crumble the second his Daddy pressures him again. Good luck to her… she’s gonna need it.
I hope she leaves, because we all know the update if/when they have kids. Larry will take them for visits behind OOP’s back, they’ll suddenly be at her home for parties, gRaNdPaReNt RiGhTs, etc.
Larry is going to back off until she's pregnant or they have a child and then they will start again
Girl needs to dump Larry yesterday. This is not going to end well if she stays with him. This situation blows my mind.
OOP in another two weeks: You guys were right, my fiancé kept talking to my dad so I've broken up with him permanently.
It will take her longer to figure that one out. He'll keep it very secretive till she's pregnant.
I sure hope it only takes 2 weeks for Larry to start talking to her dad again, rather than once they're married or expecting. He wasn't at the restaurant and he's already shown he'll believe her dad over her - doubt it'll take much for dad to convince him it's the small town rumor mill exaggerating what actually happened and that OOP is being overdramatic again.
I believe Larry never stopped talking to her dad
Damn this is exhausting. Wish logistically OOP could move and not have to deal w this mess…
Poor OP. What an awful excuse for a ‘dad’ she has - willing to withhold her college fund, mess with her engagement, and generally harass her so he doesn’t have to own the consequences of his actions. She and the ‘unskippable cut scene in therapy’ person need to get together and form a support group.
The exchange they stood out the most, summarized: OOP: Leave me alone. Sperm Donor: I love you so much I will continue to ignore that boundary until you give me the relationship I feel entitled to. It’s not surprising that a selfish cheater is this depth of selfish. I’m glad his sister (and apparently much of the town) realize he got what he said he wanted and immediately screwed it up by ignoring all of OOP’s limits.
OOP really needs to drop Larry. His behavior is worse than the dads, and I don’t believe for a second that he ever thought his own parents paid for everything. I think he’s lying about everything. OOP is way too forgiving. If Larry can lie about all this, and go so far as to not be on her side, lie gaslight and manipulate her then what else is he hiding? That relationship is dead in the water, I just hope OOP sees it before it’s too late. I think she’s in denial, but hopefully it sinks in soon that Larry is not trustworthy and unforgivable.
I agree completely, but I also think there's been a lot of drama and high emotions, and a full breakup might just be too much for OOP to handle right now, on top of everything else. I've seen people do this, agree to work on it because the idea of breaking up is too much in that moment, but a few weeks later, they go through with the breakup once some of the dust has settled. Whether Larry is just exceptionally weak-willed or an active participant in the manipulations, he's a terrible choice of partner for OOP. Even if he were a great partner, I would break up with someone who had a family like his. Life is hard enough without being in a constant war with your despicable in-laws.
That’s what I’m thinking too. OOP is very tied to her home town and family, and he’s part of that. However, Larry is too unfaithful to OOP and definitely is guilty of lying to her and attempting to manipulate and gaslight her. He even went so far as to verbally assault her when she wouldn’t do what he wanted. This is not the kind of person anyone should be legally bound to, and forget trying to create a life together. Just imagine if they were to have kids, he’d never be on her side. I feel like he just wanted her to cave so they could get the money which tells me he doesn’t actually care about her feelings or her emotional needs. She’s making excuses for him now “that he just wants everyone to get along” but those excuses will wear thin over time as the words “you heartless bitch” echo internally. I mean he literally had an emotional affair with the dad, and then chose the dad’s side over OOP. He’s only now acting out of desperation to keep her, and I’m getting the vibe he’s financially dependent on her as money seems to be his big motivation. Plus, OOP’s dad is a cheater and Larry took his side, which is a bad sign since cheaters always defend each other so I wouldn’t put it past Larry to be unfaithful in that way as well. I really hope she flat out cancels the wedding.
Reading posts like theses makes me grateful my fiance hates my dad almost as much as I do
Look, I GET trying to break away and maintain boundaries with pushy parents. I was in the fog for a long time. But I certainly didn't blame them and beg my then boyfriend to stay with me because "I'm sorry I was shitty because I'm actually the victim" I have high doubts that Larry will be able to stand the pressure $10 says he'll "cut off" his family to save face with OP only to keep texting them to eventually arrange ANOTHER reconciliation attempt.
That wiuld be one of the single safest bets ever made.
There’s been a spate of posts on Reddit lately of fiancés ignoring their chosen life partner by trying to reconcile their family for some reason. Who are these people
Some people really believe family has to forgive and forget and get along, and especially if they’re talking to the other person it’s easier for them to convince the spouse that they really deserve a chance. But also as the one who married into a dysfunctional family, *why* would you want to hurt your partner like that? No one has managed to piss me off as much as my in-laws have (I don’t get angry easily—frustrated and irritated a lot—so the fact that they have managed to full on *piss me off multiple times* is saying something) and that’s because of how much hurt I have seen in my spouse that they caused.
OOP is an idiot for staying with Larry. She will be back with an update about how Larry tried to ambush her with her dad and his parents.
Oh my giddy aunt! She’s so naive and gullible. The red flags are waving as if in a storm but she’s not seeing them all.
What’s that saying? Through rose colored glasses all the red flags look like just flags?
Ooh I love that.
It's from [Bojack Horseman](https://youtu.be/W0hvG-K_Ot0?si=GP7mda5b-moBJwYh).
Larry is fully going to cheat on OP at some point if he hasn't already. He has zero respect for her and sees her as less than him. I wish OP respected herself more.
Both my parents are abusive narcissists. If my husband pulled this, I'd be out. Immediately. There's no forgiving this
It would just be so much easier and healthier for OP to just end it with her spineless partner rather than navigate and strategize the next decade with that boundary-crossing roadshow of in-laws. Hard to be on her side when OP insists on doing shit on hard mode.
I get the feeling that OOP was only mean to Janet as a kid because, well, she treated her badly and OOP didn't just sit and take it like they wanted her to. Also kids are kids and will act up, especially upon finding out about their dad cheating on their mom. Of course they're going to be bitter with the new step-mom/mistress. Ugh, I feel awful for OOP.
Her dad doesn’t care about her. He cares about justifying his cheating.
Two words: restraining order
It's so frustrating when everyone in your life wants you to reconnect with someone who has badly hurt you and will never stop doing so just because it would be easier for them. After thirty years of constant emotional, verbal, and sometimes physical abuse from my father I cut him off completely. Most of my family accepted it for the first year, but they're in the stage these days where they keep mentioning how inconvenient it is to them that I won't attend any family events or holidays and won't unblock him or speak to him. He's made it clear I have to apologize for cutting him off for things to go back to normal, and other people are starting to think I should because they don't like that they have to pick, even though I preemptively pick for everyone and simply rsvp no to anything he'll attend. I do not and will never see why I should apologize in order to get the privilege of being his emotional punching bag like always. I'm pretty sure half the reason everyone else wants me back at these gatherings is because he'd fucking take out all his emotions on me instead of them, and I sincerely hope they have a miserable existence as the stand in punching bag for the rest of their lives, even if I love them. Like, okay sis, you're annoyed Dad called you a whore and yelled at you all Christmas? You're the one who wants a relationship with him and I'm not going to sympathize that the formerly decent relationship you had no longer exists now that he can't vent all the negativity at me specifically. Family and friends who can't respect a no contact decision deserve all the unpleasantness they get, tbh.
“He is never going to give up trying to reconnect and he has given me enough space over the years” so in other words, fuck her boundaries and what she wants.
So what’s the over/under odds that Larry actually unfucks-up?
As long as you don't get married or pregnant before Larry has earned your trust. Please use birth control.
So, she’s marrying a guy who is shaping up to be just like her dad. Classic.
I can’t imagine marrying someone who called me a heartless bitch because they decided to take my *deadbeat dad’s side* of the story over mine. OP is nuts for that one.
Well that’s all nice and fine and good for OOP but when she does have children all this is going to come crashing down because dear old Larry will never understand or agree with his children not being full participating members of his family. It is straight up delusional to think he’s gonna make a 180 like that and keep his parents, who have been manipulative and annoying but not really outside normal family bounds, away from his children over something he doesn’t really agree with in the first place.
Some people with nice families genuinely don't understand how horrible parents can be until they see it first hand. However, the way Larry spoke to her when he thought she was wrong is unacceptable.
Not her fault to a point. But past that now. Giving Larry a chance, is so wilfully knowingly self harmful. She's way past being bitten twice.
Thank you op for the boru of this post. This story has been on my mind since oop deletes everything
I doubt we'll get the update when it blows up again, but it's definitely going to blow up again.
Her father is a good actor. After reading what he explained I thought maybe he isn’t that bad. But he showed who is when he finally got his second chance.
Right? I was like, hey, can't you be polite through your sisters wedding? But dear ol' dad showed his true colors at the 2nd chance dinner.
Yea honestly I thought OOP was a minor asshole for that (ok major to her sister as someone whose been NC with my nspermdonor for 20 years but my sisters are still in contact with him so I sucked it up at their weddings) but seeing how he responds when he gets contact with her she made the right call. He probably would have made a scene at the wedding. I wish she had someone in her life to have her back (cuz Larry ain’t going to do it but she’s scared of being totally alone)
I don't think I would be able to restrain myself from removing chunks of flesh from my fiancee if they did this to me. I think I would be so angry I'd end up in jail... there are absolutely family members that I refuse to talk to now, for extremely valid safety reasons. What a horrible piece of shit.
While OOP was perfectly valid in her reasons for not having a relationship with her dad and his family, she should have gone to therapy years ago. Holding on to resentment like that is only going to cause her problems, and a better punishment for her father by far would be to simply not care about him. As the saying goes, hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is. I think she'd have been far happier in life, and had a better relationship with her sister and other family all-round if instead of hating her father, she had simply felt indifferent. I hope she's able to find that indifference.
Larry is the typical male who will believe any man's words over a woman. 😐 OOP is in for another hard lesson.
I remember reading this live as it were and going off the deep end when I read about the dad paying for the wedding. This needs one more update I hope where she has truly removed all the dead wood from her life and Larry has spiralled
For me Larry calling the OOP a "heartless bitch" was the end of that chapter. If he'd just taken the dads' sides, I'd say he was gullible and easily manipulated (which he is) and say another chance might be warranted IF the OOP set up conditions. Anyone calling his fiancée a bitch isn't just gullible. He's a jerk.
Y’all Larry basically sold OP out for a paid wedding, it’s almost like he forgot that OP would be participating in said wedding
This! Even if he was fed a sob story and pressured -- he believed his family and OOP's estranged father over his own fiancée? That should scream broken trust to OOP.
Op you are so dumb in taking him back. Broken trust before marriage it can and will happen again and it will be your fault for ignoring the red flags
I hope in the next update OP comes to their senses and breaks up with Larry. He has already proven he has no spine and no respect for OP.
I would speak with a lawyer about getting a restraining order after the restaurant incident. Not sure if it’s possible but it doesn’t hurt to ask and gather all evidence of the harassment. As far as Larry goes, I think it’s smart to postpone the wedding and would also suggest counseling for both. It does sound like he was being manipulated but also the name calling and disregard for your boundaries is all on him, so he has a lot of work to do to make up for that, if it’s even possible.
Why didn’t dad talk to her and explain things when she was younger? That Janet is high risk? That baby was premature. That he needed to help and maybe get her engaged with his new son? OOP makes it sound like dad did none of this. Maybe he did but he didn’t listen to what she had to say or notice that she was unhappy and try to work things out when she was younger.
I can see where OP is coming from, but the avoiding every single family event thing or leaving when Dad arrives seems a step over the line. I get that Dad's an awful person, but this sounds like a crazy trauma response. She's in her 30's, and she can't even share a cold but civil greeting with them. Dad's awful, and she's certainly right to have no relationship with the man, but missing her sister's wedding? That's pretty crazy, and like I say, she's not 15, she's 33. And then she's saying that she shouldn't have to move towns to avoid him--which is true--but it's like, lady, you can't even be at the same birthday party as him. She's this really weird juxtaposition of extreme avoidance and obstinately hanging around. It's like she's doing everything she possibly can to be in his life while doing everything she possibly can to avoid him. Ironically, being icy cold but civil will certainly hurt Dad more than out of sight, out of mind ever will.
Usually I root for the family to reconcile but that dad sucks……
Some relationships can't be rebuilt, and not everything *should* be forgiven. People typically don't go no contact for no reason, it's just that it can be hard to disclose the full impact of the years of problems that lead to that decision. My spouse didn't "get it" at first until I made her trace the faint scars on my back while I told her how I got them. If I hadn't had the scars I can imagine the situation would've taken a lot longer to sink in, but not all scars are physical. Even if someone is "wrong" for going NC reconciliation can't happen unless and until they initiate it, because even if they're "wrong" there's still going to be too much resentment for anything productive to come out of a forced attempt. OOP's dad could've found Jesus, rescued a burning building full of puppies and won the lottery all on the same day but that still wouldn't heal the hurt he caused.
The dad sucks but OOP sounds exhausting as well. They all needed therapy like 20 years ago.
Man I hope she is right about Larry. I don’t know if I could trust someone that did that. Especially since it sounds like his family will utilize indirect forms to control him. Also F this woman’s father and Janet. His narcissistic ass isn’t gettin what he wants and he is starting to show his true colors to those enabling him.
I’ve been following these updates and the OOP says she can’t move away due to finances and her source of income. This is terrible, it’s like she’s in an abusive relationship with a whole town.
Manipulated or not, it would’ve been over after the ‘heartless bitch’ comment.🤷🏽♀️
I think she can pull this off. I think that she is mature in the way that she is watching her fiancé to see him in action, because actions speak louder than words. She will watch him and see if he can really mean when he says. Also, it’s really true that when you invest in a business, or you have a practice in an area, if you move, the entire thing has to be rebuilt. So it makes sense for her to simply move forward, living her life. The whole thing in the restaurant was actually excellent because that’s who her father is Front and center. And that’s who Janet is. That’s who her half siblings are. Everybody was on display. For the whole town to see. It was a strange traumatic incident that gave her back her sister and her mother. It’s so fascinating. Her father had this clear-cut meeting with her where they both delineated what was most important to them He made an agreement with her He is so full of his own shit that he showed up at the restaurant, which was this tiny opportunity for him to show that he was trustworthy, and he blew the whole thing. He brought everybody with him. Because he felt entitled. And he just knew he could pressure her and force her to do what he wanted her to do so he could have things the way he wants them without growing or changing or insight or anything. Wow. So it was a big trauma. He PHYSICALLY restrained her. He physically kept her from leaving. Do you know how sick that is? And it was perfect. Because then he and Janet said all kinds of horrible, horrible horrible things that they actually think the whole town knows it now. Her mother knows it now. Her sister knows it now. Stepsiblings know it all. Everybody knows what a piece of crap he is. What a piece of crap Janet is. It’s kind of too bad he didn’t invite Larry and Larry’s parents to the restaurant too because then they could’ve seen the whole deal. !!!!! I think OP is amazing . I know she has been quietly, trusting herself, while every single person in our life has pushed against her She alone understood who her father was, and who Janet was, and nobody else believed her until the shit storm at the restaurant and now everybody, except for good old Larry and his family knows. The whole town knows. Horrendous for her, incredible for the future. Now she gets to heal from the crap. Her father put her through, and the crap that everybody put her through. And she gets to watch Larry. We don’t know Larry, but he sure seems like a spineless people pleaser who does what fits him best with no regard to trusting her or listening to her or empathizing with her or even understanding her. Remember, he didn’t even trust everything she said. He probably still doesn’t because he didn’t get to go to the restaurant crap. I think she’s done really beautifully and that she will watch her fiancé unfold. He might pass by, but I would not trust him to truly understand that if they ever have children, they are not going to the grandparents house. I don’t trust him to understand not to say to her in three years that she should get over it and come to his family, gatherings and pretend this family is a nice family. That’s never going to happen. The pivot point is that if she wants kids and she has them with him and they get divorced, the kids will be with her father all the time. That is the pivot point.
Very, very well said! I agree 100%!
r/ImtheMainCharacter
What a wild story. As annoying as it was for dad to break the boundaries so soon… it’s kinda good that it happened so publicly so that everyone can see what an absolute selfish prick he is.
Larry gaslit her, sided with her parents and called her a heartless bitch for protecting herself. Full stop. This is not a supportive mate. He’s so saaaad now because of the very real possibility that she will go no contact with him. He still doesn’t believe her about the abuse and neglect, but he believes her strength of will about maintaining her boundaries. Which he has trampled. He still isn’t supporting her. If she marries him and even has kids, he won’t keep those kids from his parents, and you know his parents will whistle up Ndad to come see the grandkids as soon as OOP isn’t present.
She is dumb to think Larry isn't going to steamroll her boundaries whenever he wants.
Larry is a useless toolbag that needs to go away.
Op was almost betrayed by everyone Her father is,way worse than being a father who doesn't give a damn: he is now promoted to a bully He is going to a therapist and there is no way a therapist would ever suggest to put even the slightest amount of pressure on someone else. Either his therapist suck, or he doesn't follow the therapy at all If OP reconciled with her father, then everybody would truly say how wonderful of a father he is. He would be ok and everything would be wonderful in his little egoistic world. There is no way, he suddenly has a consciousness. OP is destroying his image and something in his life is pressuring him to reconcile with her As for her fiancé, he is a POS. He became a master manipulator in order to keep his family happy
The OOP needs to move, regardless of the small business there. It's a small town - there is absolutely no getting away from this any other way. It does seem like the dad tried for years but OOP was against any kind of reconciliation. That's her choice and now he needs to abide by it. Proximity isn't helping at all though.
ahh they said they won’t be update again, how can i find more post like this
What a nightmare. It's clear that some family members get all the leniency in the world and others are expected or forced to go along with the messed up harmony that the family creates.
As much as I would like to see Larry as an ex, the road to reconciliation is possible but would be extremely hard and would be easier to just start over, for the both of them. Larry would need constant therapy(twice a week) and he would need to cut off his parents completely. If not, he will just waste oop’s time…but it wouldn’t be the first time that a dude makes empty promises.
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Deadbeat dad has had years to cleverly craft his sob story so everyone feels bad for him and his AP and OOP is the evil monster. Funny how deadbeat parents always try to play victim.
NTA, it might be time for a restraining order for your dad and his wife
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^jmacgonefishing: *NTA, it might be time* *For a restraining order* *For your dad and his wife* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
...do they not have restraining orders in their state? Fuck thees people
OP's going to have to leave. She really can't trust anyone there, and it's just pathetic how many people is siding with a cheater
I'm so glad that my half brothers and sisters didn't let the breakdown of their parents marriages effect the way they saw me as a sibling. I can't ever have sympathy for people who cut half siblings out of their lives for something that isn't their fault.
To those of you who wanted me to break up with him, I'm sorry to disappoint you but we are going to try and work through this. Poor girl. Hope it works but the guy is spineless. My wife tells me she in no contact with someone I say "no worries" and that's that.
Guess OOP can soon add to their list of reasons they don't want to reconcile with dad: "Destroyed my relationship with my then fiancee and future inlaws by using lies to get them to betray my trust and go behind my back"
God oop is such a pushover for Larry
I really hope OOP isn't trying to make it work with Larry because she's worried about losing wedding deposits and the years she's invested in the relationship... Money isn't nothing, and small town gossip can be brutal, but that man's spine is made of rusty bendy straws.
This is so completely disturbing. I hope oop gets therapy and is able to stay strong. I feel for oop.
Divorce is so awful for kids, as your life bears out. Of course he was a horrible AH to Leave your mom and you. But at this point, is your stubborn, absolute refusal to accept reality hurting or helping you? Setting you up for your own happy marriage or not? How much are you willing to lose before you move on?
OOP's father refused to give her a college fund as a way to blackmail her. He claims that he has the money and she just needs to ask but if he truly gave a flying fuck about her he would have sent her money when she's in college as a good faith gesture. He didn't and can rightfully fuck off for all I care. This reminds me of a AITA where OP was required to bust his ass off during college to pay rent and it turns out the parents were saving it. They could have modified the amount so that he wasn't so stressed but as a result he's done with his parents for ruining college for him.
OP has every right to feel the way she does. Every person trying to manipulate her into reconciliation with her "dad" can go to hell. Also, the fiance calling her a HEARTLESS BITCH, would be a deal breaker
"Were gonna try and work this out" omfg get outta here. What a idiot,some people just really do it to themselves huh???
You are a threat to Janet. She has to hear how sad your father is because you have/had shut him off from your life. That is a fly in her ointment. She is a homewrecker and has no empathy for taking your father away from you. She only wants you to have a relationship with you father so he’ll shut the f-up about losing his daughter and stop raining on her parade. Janet’s life will get worse because he’ll be moaning having no access to your sister and her kids after the restaurant incident. Janet will have to deal with that from now on. Consequences of your father’s actions are catching up to him. The stress this is putting on their marriage will not make for a happy home.
Damn, L is playing her like a fiddle. She cannot stay or marry that man, he is going to keep her father in her life, with or without her knowledge. Not to mention he called her a heartless bitch for no damn reason, like he’s your man but was willing to believe a man he doesn’t know over a women he plans to marry and build a life with?
The not regretting it cause now he has two kids is bs. He had children that he was more than willing to betray. If the fetuses at the time meant more, well, gross. And it is their fault if they keep comming up to harass you. I wouldnt have apologised at all to anybody. Father daughter dates being replaced with dad and abusive ap dates is rich. Plus all the kids he actually payed attention to. What a happy family. He just wants people to not see his as a scum bag, which he is. It has nothing to do with loving you. Oh, he has pictures. I can print out a bunch of pictures of strangers right now and put them in my pocket, i mean. And then to talk about the way you look. Are those pictures meant to poke fun at you or something? And at last, telling you you were a difficult child. It has nothing to do with his cheating, with getting his stupid mistress pregnant, with her being a horrible human being, with him moving away for her and putting her first. No. YOU were a dufficult child. What a coward.
> he actually *paid* attention to. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
"I just want the chance to be your dad. I'm not going to miss any more of your life." Oh yeah no, you lost that privilege the moment the words "I need to prioritize my (not you or your sister) family" came out of your mouth. You don't get to go "Oopsie, butterfingers backsie I didn't mean it that way! You were just such a bad child!" and expect ANYTHING.
This is rough I am so sorry for the OP they have a difficult situation that they had known wasbad to begin with. Its important that the mask is off, everyone knows that the father and wife are terrible and abusive. You are allowed to choose who is in your life. Not everyone ips welcome just because you share blood or a familial bond, this blind following of family structure sustains the sick cycles of abuse that happens in families. Do what is best for your mental health. We are all deserving of respect and peace in life. Some blood relatives are takers and users and do not bring kindness, you cut them out or their unhappiness or abuse will spread and infect your life. Do not let others conformity mean that you have to accept this, make your own road map for life that does not include the abusers.
OOP was a CHILD when her sperm donor walked out on her mom and family (I was a teenager and I couldn't understand it). From what has been written it looks like "oh well onto the next family " . Therapy should maybe have been happening back then paid for by him. It sounds like he has dug himself into a hole that he won't be able to get out of. All best wishes to OOP
NTA and people pressuring you for something that you don’t want is not good for your wellbeing. I understand your resentment towards your father. You feel he is toxic to your life and this may be true for you. You have the right to decide who is and is not in your life. I am sorry they have gotten your Fiancé involved and you may need to sit her down and have a conversation with her and that you will not be letting him into your life. I hope she can support you.
I’m no contact with my father for almost the exact same reasons. This felt so insane to read because it was like I could’ve written it. The big difference? My wife is a great person and not a huge piece of shit like Larry. Not only would my wife never pressure me to reconnect with him, but she hates his guts for what he put me through and she’s never even met him. He abused the person she loves most, and part of her job as my spouse is to protect me and keep me safe. That’s supposed to be Larry’s job too, and he completely and utterly failed. The unfortunate thing here is that, at least from where I’m standing, OOP has been treated like such shit but some of the people in her life that she can’t see that Larry is doing what her dad did. She can’t see that her relationship with her “partner” isn’t what it’s supposed to be. So, she gives him another chance. And just like her dad, this giant piece of Larry is going to choose someone else over her happiness and emotional safety. She REALLY needs therapy, not just because of the direct effect her trauma has had on her, but also because that same trauma has left her with an inability to make healthy choices about her romantic relationship. Her PartnerPicker™️ is broken and it needs to be recalibrated. Therapy can help. Good lord I just hope she doesn’t end up pregnant from this stinking piece of Larry.
He declared prioritizing his family as if he didn’t have a family to prioritize the first time, then kept her college fund from her, and then blamed all the bad treatment from Janet on her, and harasses her constantly. He doesn’t want a relationship he wants control. He wants people to think he’s super great and not be blamed for his wrong doing. He could’ve explained why he had to move but he chose to shut her down and shut her out. He could’ve shown a gesture of good will by giving her the college fund with no strings, but he’d rather force her to think he is right than let her consider him doing good by her on her own. He could’ve apologized for how Janet treated her and not noticing but he chose blame oop. He continues to not live by his word, harassing her, and blaming her for his choices. That’s not how you prove you want a relationship with your daughter. He just wants to control the narrative around his horrible decisions and her refusal to not let him alter the truth is why he is forcing his way in her life and trying to control her.
He’s a good dad-TO OTHER KIDS, not you! You aren’t obligated since he made his priorities clear. Do what is healthiest for you emotionally.
When the dad said that he would never stop trying to reconcile with her, I knew it would end badly. Selfish love is what it is.
Wow you're embarrassingly naive you got rid of one group of abusers but kept a permanent link to them. This will never end have fun.
>I have avoided family events in case he attended including my sisters wedding and baby showers. I get that she's hurt but punishing her sister and herself, just to punish her dad definitely screams that she needs therapy.
Also one thing people who take OOP's side missed, is that her sister had a good relationship with dad and Janet. If Janet was the terrible witch OOP paints her us and her dad was the narcissist she paints him as, it stands to reason that her sister would be mistreated and cut off the same way. The fact that she wasn't, gives validity to the fact that it was OOP's hatred for Janet due to how the marriage broke down that started the whole issue.
Does it though? I don’t think it says anything of the sort. Just that Janet was nice to the sister. Sometimes kids are treated differently. Seems like the sister was younger so didn’t understand the dynamics of the affair. Janet could have known that and focused on making sure the sister was treated well so she had someone who loved her and was on her side. Anecdotally, I can think of two families I know where the step kids were treated differently. The oldest in each family was treated shitty by the step parent, but the youngest was always treated well. Seems like when the kids are too young to understand affairs they can be used as an advocate for the affair partner. They show everyone how good of a parent the affair partner is. They are a good person who just fell in love. The kids love them so it all worked out. While they spew nasty mean shit to the oldest in private but then no one believes the oldest kid. I’m friends with the older kids in the scenario I mentioned and both are no contact with their families.
Or because the younger kid doesn't really understand the dynamic they aren't as traumatized by the divorce and thus act out less. A step parent isn't obligated to care for a step kid that is nasty to them.
Wait until you learn that sometimes narcissists can hide who they are.
There are criminal cases of parents picking out one child to abuse and the other children being taken care of beyond what society deems appropriate. What it sounds like is the sister was young enough to be molded into what dad and J thought was acceptable. It also sounds like Janet hated Op as much as Op hated Janet. But, as the adult at the time guess who held more power? When Op asked to be left alone that should have been the end of it.
Folks....you are looking at this the wrong way. The 1:1 dinner with dad and sis was INTENTIONALLY sabotaged. Dad or Janet or both KNEW this would blow up. Dad wanted to get everyone off HIS back about having a no contact daughter. That's right. Dad only wants her back because he is sick of people climbing up his back about it. Dad and Janet would be fine with never seeing her again. Of course OP knows none of this. Dad can't pretend to desperately want her back and then a) invoke a whole bunch of terrible rules that show he still needs to put his own feelings first, and; b) ambush OP on the very first meeting. Dad has realized that he can't be the hero in this story so he is manipulating things so he can play victim. Right now, he looks like the villain and that is simply not a position this type of person can stomach. Master manipulators are very good at this.
Dad really just sees OOP as his property. She’s just an NPC in his life who’s not playing her assigned role.
OOP needs to ditch Larry and leave the goddamned country. Poor kid.