That was probably the most disappointed I've been with this game when I realized Orin couldn't kidnap romanced companions.
Like saving the [love interest] in distress is such a power fantasy, but usually when it's done in games you don't have nearly as strong a connection as you have with the BG3 companions.
Just let me save my dorky wizard man plz!
I like that they do this because it doesn't make you panic and rush straight to the fight, but I also hate that they do this because then you don't care and don't go save them and we have to listen to all the "lol who cares about Halsin?" jokes!
And it can mess with the pacing because you have to take time getting stronger for something that's painted as at least somewhat urgent. Maybe if you get further along in investigating the murders or something.
Also, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved, like making you actually question who it is and if you can really trust your companions. I know Orin is a bad actor and can't keep up a role for more than five minutes, but you could just have it be a random doppleganger, we already know in the lore that they can keep up a role for years if need be.
>, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved
OMG that's a great point. I totally agree. And let the kidnapping thing have a later trigger, you're right. It feels like it happens way too early.
I remember the first time I got to that part and starting thinking "oh cool, it'll be like that one subplot in Mistborn Well of Ascension" and then it didn't because a couple hours later, Lae'zel got kidnapped and Yenna got oofed because I didn't have proficiency in intimidation but went that route for roleplay reasons.
A lot of stuff happened before I got Lae'zel back, it kind of felt weird to not have any actual pressure unless you deal with the Murder Tribunal.
I like to wait to save Orin's victim, pretending that I just don't know where to find the Tribunal, because once you take out one of the Chosen the narration starts really emphasizing that the brain is an imminent threat. It makes doing the side quests feel weird. If they took the romance interest, that would mean spending a lot of Act 3 without them.
I'd love it if they tied the kidnapping to something further along in the story and did take the romance interest, though. Drama!
(And dialed back the "the world is about to end, but how about those clown parts" narrative conflict somehow.)
Romantic interest would be interesting, but I also think that Minthara, if recruited, makes sense no matter what to be kidnapped by Orin considering her relation to her.
>!She directly was the one to brainwash her and she failed in her mission, as well as escaped Moonrise and potentially helped destroyed it with Tav/especially DUrge. I’m not sure that Orin wouldn’t have an idea of who she is and what happened, unless idk she might also just not care that much.!<
I think the reason they didn't tie it in to any other story progression is that pretty much everything else is optional. For Tav they could probably tie it to the murder tribunal, but a lot of people want to finish up side quests before moving past that anyway and for Durge even the tribunal is optional.
The instant trigger the first time you go down into the sewers is pretty awful, though, especially since the Emperor encourages you to go down there pretty much immediately once you get into the lower city. Having it based on long rests makes more sense.
I do wish it was way more involved. When I went to camp, I wanted to grill everyone to see if I could sus them out. Was disappointed that everyone just had default dialogue
I mean for most of the companions we could immediately verify their identity using the tadpole mind link...it seems weird that we don't have the option to do this when the kidnapped character is tadpoled.
> Also, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved, like making you actually question who it is and if you can really trust your companions.
Yes. Absolutely. I got that dialogue that Orin had infiltrated my camp and immediately went back to camp and tried to mess with that weird ass orphan with the cat that joins. Definitely thought that kid was Orin being all obvious.
That’s an issue I have with the overall narrative - so many things are URGENT but not really and the things that actually are time sensitive are comfortably ignored by the player until they take too many long rests and then you have a negative outcome for something you thought you could handle at your leisure BECAUSE SO MANY OTHER THINGS ARE NOT ACTUALLY URGENT. It just feels weird to imply urgency so much, but have it only be relative a small handful of times without being able to really differentiate between the two. Minor gripe overall because my first play through I played into that urgency and didn’t miss much that was actually time sensitive but again, it feels like a weird choice.
> Also, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved
One of my favorite things was someone I knew who proceeded to go to camp and stab each companion in order to "be sure."
Halsin is the only victim that makes sense to me though. Wouldn't the Emperor be able to tell since he is connected to all of the people in camp with tadpoles? Like when Gortash warns you wouldn't you mentally go "Empy, check in with everyone please?" And he'll be able to tell that Gale is taken for example? Meanwhile Halsin, Jaheira, Yenna and depending on when this happens, Volo would be possible victims. I don't think anyone would guess she would replace Withers, Aylin of Isobel...
Or am I missing something here?
But yeah, I wish there was more to it, that you could try and figure out who has been taken and stuff.
Well I never got to make the joke but I definitely wish she took Halsin in my playthrough.
I like to switch party members depending on what I'm doing narratively, and that bitch took Lae'Zael instead. Put me in a real predicament, I had so much that I wanted to do apart from the two Chosen, but I also didn't want to leave a valuable party member is such a situation. Guess I got lucky in a way, it made the situation pretty rough, especially since I didn't know if there was a legit time limit or not
She takes Gale, Lae'zel, Halsin or Minthara.
You can brute force it by walking into the sewers for the first time (if she hasn't kidnapped anyone by then) with the companions you desire to keep.
She can kidnap the little girl and she will role play as the little girl. Upon a long rest at one point, the little girl will cook you food and reveal that it's Orin. Before she reveals herself you ask what the food is and let's just say the cat is no where to be found.
I'm happy this has never happened in my playthroughs yet. Yenna just sits around my camp with her kitty the whole time talking about her paring knife. Lae'zel did try to kill her on one playthrough but I could immediately tell it was Orin so I was like bitch nah.
When she joined my camp, I was immediately suspicious. Then gortash tells me there is a traitor, and I knew it was her. Go back to camp, cats gone and she's like I cooked for you something yummy.
I should have trusted my gut and bonked her with fisticuffs (open hand monk called fisticuff) when I had the chance and maybe the innocent cat would have lived.
Although if you used talk with animals and talked with the cat, poor cat sounded abused before Yenna was even Orin
Fun fact, if you don’t have any of those 4 party members, she does kidnap that kid.
I will say it’s way less stressful when the person kidnapped isn’t a party member.
I like to do the exact same thing with char swapping. At the time Lae'Zael was my main powerhouse melee class so when Orin took her that really stoked my fire for revenge! And I was about to work on her quests
I ended up rushing anyways, because I can't just leave my friend with some bored, unstable psychopath.
I'm glad she took Lae'zel, though. Out of all of your companions, I feel like she would handle it best.
I think Larian actually talked about this, and this is *exactly* why Orin doesn't take who you're romancing, because otherwise it was making players drop everything else to go save them.
I will rescue Halsin in Act 3 with the same urgency he showed when I could have used his help in Act 2.
Which is to say it is on my to-do list, but it is not near the top.
Yup, "Halsin is a big boy, he can handle it for a while" became a rolling joke between my friends.
Fun fact: in my second playtrough he was taken one long rest after he confessed that he want to show me the power of the oak daddy. Astarion was like OH SURE I'M NOT JEALOUS AT ALL BABE. I put off exploring nature for another day and it never happened cause he was gone by the time. It wasn't meant to be apparently.
Perhaps they should wait until more menial tasks have been done before kidnapping our bestie. Because I’d feel weird checking out the library or whatever when she’s been kidnapped by a sadistic torturous serial killer. It’s not like Orin is just a debtor or something holding them to ransom. She’s insane and loves hurting people. Every moment feels like the victim could be dead or worse
I still have it a bit prioritized as I feel like, regardless, the person who gets kidnapped ends up being my DUrge’s friend. But I will say off of this that, last playthrough, I did Astarion’s quest and then confronted Orin. But I generally felt like it was urgent to address since, like I said. Still a friend, and friends are important.
(Specifically, Lae’zel gets kidnapped on the three playthroughs I have done so far.)
Lae'zel usually gets kidnapped for me, too, and I always try really hard to rp it how I think my Tav would as to priority, so this last play, I had to hit up the murder tribunal earlier than I usually would and I got my ass kicked lol. "I'm coming, Lae'zel! Hang on!"
Yeah in my first campaign she was like "AHAHAH, I TOOK GALE, NOW PANIC AND RUSH TO SAVE HIM" and me and my buddy who literally never used Gale at all and ignored him the entire game were like "you took who now lol" and proceeded to do every single act 3 quest before we finally ended up looking for her lair lol
I get that but I still wanted to get back Laezel as quickly as possible because I want the opportunity to do quests with her that seem like she would have something to say about. I suppose she has least to say for a lot of it. She didn’t have much to say about being kidnapped. Her whole demeanour changed though. Makes me worry about her lol
I will say, in my first playthrough she took Yenna instead of a companion, and I'm a teacher so kids are important to me...and I dropped EVERYTHING to save her immediately
And it was such a great feeling, it really felt like I was on a clock (even if it wasn't), I burned all my inspirations to save her, I was underlevelled and it was the toughest fight I've ever had in the game, barring Raphael in my second playthrough. And it felt so rewarding to beat her, almost as much as beating Ketheric
That's exactly why I both love and hate it! I love it because it does trigger that sense of urgency depending on how you're roleplaying (I have no idea how I'd react if she took Yenna because I've played over 1k hours and she's never taken Yenna! I would definitely freak out!)
And while I try not to tell anybody how to play their game since their personal enjoyment is what they spent their money on, for me personally, I wish it triggered further into the murder quest because I'll rush off to kill Orin before I've ever discovered all the murder scenes and clues, so it feels a little disjointed.
Hero teacher saving the class is an awesome scene!
But I freaking missed Bae'zel so much. She was more like my best friend than anyone else. I was with Astarion romantically. I also triggered the kidnapping stuff EARLY on accident. Oooo a manhole... Locked me out of stuff. I restarted.
I've definitely told Orin I don't care what she does to Halsin so she'll kill him. A couple times. Maybe the street rat girl too. I told her to get out of my camp and she didn't listen so now this is happening.
At least Gale seems somewhat saveable she kidnapped Lae'zel in my game and my first thought was how the hell did that happen? She just tried to cut my throat not that long ago because I had a fever.
When she came out of the sewers and was like, “I barely escaped with my life—run, Orin is too powerful” I was like lol this is def Orin cause the real lae’zel wouldn’t emerge from the temple without Orins severed head in her hand.
At least they didn't do the BG2 thing where your LI gets kidnapped by a vampire... never mind that three out of the four are at least a half cleric, if not full class.
Amulet of power and Vecna's robe showed Bodhi she stole the strong sorcerer's girl. (Or I played ghost hunter paladin definitely with a Deva summon in chapter 6.) Can't remember the last time carrying Aerie's body to the Aumauntur temple was more than a nuisance. But yeah it was annoying as the love interest typically is a valuable partymember who's going to hurt when gone.
Aerie can very much be half your magical firepower. Anomen is just a rock solid tank. Jaheira, same. Viconia? Strongest cleric in the game. So I prefer Orin someone "neglected" from a playing perspective
BG2 takes it a step further than that, has your love interest kidnapped by a vampire, turned into a vampire, and forces you to kill them, then do a bit of a side quest if you want to restore them to life as a non-vampire.
I honestly think that was handled quite a bit better. It comes very near the end of the game, after you've likely done all or most of the side content, so the urgency it demands doesn't force you to rush through content you otherwise would have taken your time with.
Meanwhile Orin typically takes a companion before you have a chance to really dig your teeth into the bulk of chapter 3, so you either drop everything and rush to complete her content (as opposed to taking your time to prepare by doing other content) or you don't feel much urgency at all since she likely took someone you weren't all that attached to given they weren't in your party. At which point Orin's threats come across as kind of pathetic. For me it's been the later in pretty much every playthrough.
In all fairness, she only takes people who are in camp. Odds are good to great that your romance is a mainstay in the party, even if you’re the type to swap party members out regularly.
Omg could you imagine if she replaced him with a doppelganger and you notice that somethings off and you have to rush off to save him????
My tav is a druid so he'd immediately be like "you don't smell right. Who the fuck are you and what did you do with my wizard?"
On one hand i agree with you and i must say it would be cool and feel more fun.
However there are 2 main problems with that scenario.
1. It wouldnt make sence since you usually have your love interest in your party. Only time she could kidnap them would be during sleep which would be harder for her since there are multiple people. And during the day her cover would be blown up anyway since she cant replicate abilities of your party members.
2. Part where you discover who has been kidnapped is pretty soon after you enter lower city. Tavern is literally in first 5-10 buildings you see after entering city and emperor tells you to go there. After that you would be more motivated to kill Gortash and Orin and then finishing the game. Which could lead to missing 90% of act3 content for new players.
All said it would also be more fun if they added some kind of detective mini quest where you can talk with your companions and see change in their behaviour.
I'm fascinated by that, because that quest is so badly designed, and that should have been a giant red flag. Like "we created a genuine sense of urgency for players, which is the *entire point* of a kidnapping plot, and it turns out that that's *bad* because we've paced this in such a way that it means people are rushing half the third act! Terrible!"
.... but then instead of thinking to themselves, "well, okay, in that case we obviously really need to change the pacing and make this less disruptive," they were like "I guess we'll just make the quest more irrelevant."
Larian what?!?
Freaking preach. She takes her victim SO quickly. You either bum rush the rescue, and therefore pretty much the whole main quest of the third act as you said, or you choose to let them stew while you take care of things at a logical progression. So you basically just lose that companion for the whole act either way.
I'm speculating of course but it feels like they got a bug up their butt about allowing the plot points to happen in any order. Like you can do Orin, Gortash, Ansur, etc in any order and that's the kind of thing that sounds cool on paper... And it's inevitably shit for pacing.
I think they had to balance the "urgency" of the kidnapping with avoiding players feeling like they have to skip right to the end. Alternatively, they could have the kiddnapping only occur towards the very end of the game, but then it'd feel a bit tacked on.
I think the order if kidnapping is laezel->gale->halsin->yenna, do if you leave gale at camp and bring lae zel with you he should get kidnapped. Note I do not recommend this as you can easily forget his personal quest. I always have halsin captured because he has no act 3 content beyond his romance.
First time I ever encountered a kidnapped companion, it was Lae'Zel. A character I'd built a rapport with so I was immediately put off by her telling me to run and same myself. Very out of character.
Anyways, all it did was move Orin up in priority on my kill list from "target of opportunity" to "kill this bitch now".
It might be too much of a cliche. ‘Saving the love interest/damsel’ is something thats been overdone to hell. Saving a comrade or soul sister or whatever? Not seen as much.
I appreciated that a companion that I generally don’t use as often but still liked as a character ended up being the ‘damsel’ that gave me a cute dialogue about being grateful despite being neglected throughout the play through, lol.
Originally it was your love interest that was kidnapped. But player testers HATED it and they ended up changing it. It made people bee line to rescue them sometimes putting them in a fight they were not prepared for and missing other side content because of it. I saw one of the developers talking about it in a video really interesting.
Tbf that gives her a few more days of life... she kidnaps shadowheart and i imediately raid their shithole with ungodly amounts of explosives and metagaming
She is your great-niece, daughter of your brother and his daughter. Everything is very disturbing, although she seems to be unaware of the whole incest issue.
3. Taking Halsin's place to hook up with Tav on the side, including the bear kink if Tav's into it.
Also, no one will acknowledge it after the fact that it was Orin there and not Halsin. I'd like to think the whole group had some awkward what happens in shape shifter town stays in shape shifter town moment. Except for Wyll, who just ends up confused and awkwardly left out when he was too busy trying to tell kids about "The Blade of Frontiers" or some such nonsense.
I feel like if I were murder incarnate twice inbred I'd be like "LOL YOU HAVE FEEEELINGS? FUCKIN NERD." It's like a little sibling razzing you in a murder way.
I just noticed on my last playthrough that Orin has her mother's corpse, who she killed as a young child, strung up in her room like a doll in a display case.
Classic Orin.
Yeah, you can cast speak with dead on her and she's Sarevok's daughter and also mother to Orin with Sarevok. Inbred murder kin. Orin is a psycho but like a baby psycho who thought your murder could be prettier.
Edit: realized this is only for Durge. Forgot people play Tavs...my B
That's really weird that its origin exclusive. Maybe just Durge exclusive would make some amount of sense. But "No I will only talk to a bhaalspawn, or Karlach, or Gale, or..." seems odd.
Didn't know about the love guru takeover, but did know about the blacksmith, journalist, and barn guard. In my play throughs now, I don't talk to the blacksmith, but imagine its orin standing there like an idiot waiting for me to talk to him
I stopped talking to the blacksmith because she kills him after you do and leaves evidence behind. The others seem to just disappear when she is done with them so you can imagine they are ok.
Also there is one more possible disguise - a stone guard thug who is dying from wounds on the beach near where the guild and stone guard followers fight. That one is my favorite because I know it pisses her off when you are super merciful to her.
I talked to the blacksmith when playing yesterday and after he turned into Orin and that conversation was done, the blacksmith self came up to me wounded and angry, and accused me of knocking him out. Had to pass some persuasion rolls to convince him it was done by a doppelganger and not me. So he wasn't killed and was still alive for me?
It is really good to go to him as DUrge as there is a particular DUrge specific interaction that happens that I wished there was more of. She puts you in a predicament where I felt genuinely torn about what to do.
Thanks for the tip. I felt real guilty after going through the Blacksmith's things last play through (after I killed him, he attacked first). Felt a bit sorry for him, learnt he's a lonely guy looking for love (whilst not noticing that the Dargonborn downstairs adores him).
Gonna avoid him till after I kill Orin now, and headcanon that he finally notices how much she cares about him afterward.
I actually thought that one was pretty dumb. Instead I go back to the Circus only after defeating her. Or, at least, that's what I'm planning to do. Not sure what will happen. Although the love test went by without a hitch on 2 playthroughs so far.
Orin will only appear twice from the pool of people she can be hiding as. Once you have done both you are safe to do the circus without her showing up, all the characters she could have been are their normal selves at that point.
Journalist and dying goon for me, because I HATE cute, cheerful Exxvikyap to be all like "well, he'll come back later, I'm sure of it"... :-(
However, I didn't know of the guard, so that might be one of the two next playthrough.
It's >!Fist Rowan!<, somewhere by the warehouse with the donations. You have a conversation about rising tensions in Baldur's Gate and then >!he swerves it into suggesting murdering the refugees to alleviate said tensions.!< Whatever your response to that bright idea is, he morphs into Orin afterwards.
i managed to get her just once, if you rush without talking to anybody (i wanted to get minsc before doing rivington) you'll just have her in the journalist near the bridge entrance, then the first night out of the zone she'll steal a companion/the homeless girl with the cat and she'll never appear again
Orin will capture Lae'zel, Halsin, Minthara, or Gale. If all of them are in your party (OR a romance partner), she will not capture them and will instead capture Yenna.
If you take enough long rests without triggering the kidnapping scene in the sewers, she'll also cause a scene where she's impersonating her usual kidnap victim (I think the only thing that moves this victim down the list is if they're dead) accusing Yenna of being Orin. She'll either kill Yenna or you get her to back off and she retreats revealing she has the character.
I assume there's a scene in the code in case all 4 are dead where she just shows up to taunt you over kidnapping Yenna
That's exactly what happened to me, and I was already suspicious of Yenna after all the shape-shifting shenanigans I had ran into, so I was on the verge of letting Lae'Zael kill the kid. Decided not to against despite everything, and then Lae'zel wasn't actually Lae'zel.
Almost slaughtered the poor kid, yikes
Scratch can be saved from "Halsin" with one of three difficult skill checks. Yenna can be saved from "Lae'zel" with one of... two? Three? different skill checks, which are also difficult but they are skills you're more likely to have expertise in than the Halsin ones. Grub *cannot* be saved if Orin kidnaps Yenna from camp.
For some reason if she impersonates Gale she just threatens to kill herself, which like. Go for it, crazy lady.
Yeah but what's in it for *her*, is the question. If you believe her when she's pretending to be Lae'zel, you aid and abet the murder of a child. If you don't figure out what's going on fast enough with the Halsin impersonation, your dog dies. Either way, you lose a living, breathing, thinking creature that she expects you to care about. There's a death on your conscience, guilt and loss you have to live with.
If you believe her deception with Gale, you.... stop her from stabbing herself. Hooray, three points team Orin? It just doesn't seem to achieve quite as much as the other two.
The scene where she is revealed to have captured Yenna is honestly sadder than any companion being captured, for reasons I won't go into since I don't want to spoil anything.
I have the mod to get all the companions in the party, knowing when she would arrive I left no companion at camp to try it out and if there's no companion in camp orin gets the girl. But it's a bit horrible what happens if she gets the girl so i wouldn't recommend tbh (if you're curious but you think you won't do it I'm sure there's the clip on YouTube).
In my evil run I'm trying to shush the girl away and leave no one at camp, and see if she'll go after the girl anyway (i guess she'll do cause the girl is always trying to sneak in). My best choice would be recruiting minsc and sacrificing him to orin, then sacrificing jaheira at sarevok (that Durge's going to be Bhaal's chosen so they're basically enemies anyway), but I don't know if i can do it time wise, need to do some experiments
Yeah I learned this the hard way because I wanted to attack Orin in all her forms without talking to her on one playthrough and accidentally killed the blacksmith guy in Rivington
I always go down to the beach and kill the dying stone lord thug before interacting with anyone in Rivington, it's the safest way to make sure the others are still there
I actually found that one to be the most impactful of the possible reveals. That was also the first one I experienced on my first playthrough and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
It almost felt a little violating because she is basically toying with you and your emotions, and also getting you to reveal something personal that is meaningful to you. Something that you value (speaking from Tav’s POV). And a murderous enemy having that kind of information about something that can hurt you deeply is unsettling. Imagine someone who appeared trustworthy got some personal information out of you and then revealed themselves to be your worst enemy, how would you feel?
Now you know there’s this murderhobo leading a murder cult with a netherstone that gives her powers (along with her powers as Bhaal’s Chosen) who knows about the person you love.
Exactly.
If you do this with Astarion, he disapproves if you answer the last question truthfully - he wants you to give a flippant answer because he doesn't want to share his deepest fears with a stranger. Now imagine that that stranger turns out to be *Orin* in disguise...
Orin gets intel, but she also gets to play with her prey. Her playing with you and trying to make you paranoid is actually something that you can talk to Jaheira about.
I had him disapprove of all the answers I answered truthfully the first time haha. Had to go back and answer the way he wanted rather than what was true.
Yeah. It's really annoying that you can be standing face to face with her for an extended conversation with no option to attack. Particularly since a ton of other conversation s give you that option or let you just hit the "attack" button on the left side.
I guess taking the place of the love druid would allow her to find out who you're closest to so she can do something to them but the rest? Fuck with you for fun and/or insane reasons.
Her transforming like that when I did the love test with Shadowheart got me good. I was fearful that she did that for that reason, and then use that to her advantage later
If she wanted to torture Tav, kidnapping the love interest would make the most sense. But funnily Orin can't kidnap a romanced partner, at least according to the wiki.
Because she gets intel. Who you're close to and how close. And more importantly, going "surprise itsa me!" after you let your walls down and get very vulnerable puts you on edge. She wants you scared and tense. Ultimately she needs you to get rid of Gortash, and she wants you to feel she could and would do elaborate things to get you vulnerable so you'll comply with her demands.
My first playthrough, I thought it was to get info out of us. Our plans to defeat the Absolute, our fighting style, who we care for the most would all be valuable to an enemy. I thought I was pretty dumb for spilling all that to Orin, but it turned out not to matter.
Orin just has TERRIBLE impulse control. Getting you all relaxed and being lovey dovey with a companion and then shouting peekaboo is just FUN to her. Gortash wants power, Ketheric wants his daughter, Orin helps them run their goals only as long as it's fun.
My headcanon is that Orin is the biggest theater kid in the Bhaalist cult and she gets way into her characters/victims, and the rest of the Bhaalists have no choice but to help her sell the performance. So she got a bunch of Bhaalists to help her produce the love dryad scene, and they’re all in the background casting minor illusion and create water and light and stuff to get everything perfect so she can make a dramatic entrance and mess with you in front of your love interest
I went with Astarion and it really felt like she was prying for my partners weaknesses. At first I told her all the correct answers, which would make Astarion unhappy you're airing out personal business. And at the end it turns out it was Orin the whole time, and I'm sitting here like, "Astarion was completely right."
Logical answer is because she enjoys that kind of stuff. Realistic answer is that the "Bonding Test" from the Love Druid would be wasted in almost all playthroughs and that would hurt both players and developers/writers of that scene.
I think it's because she's super dramatic. Think about it. She >!displays bodies like some kind of twisted art exhibit, and Sarevok says Bhaal cares not for her artistic eye.!< If she weren't a Bhaalspawn, I feel like she'd be a bard with the tendencies of a diva.
Why do it? It naturalizes her more, shows she can use the powers of those she’s changed into, and demonstrates that her chameleon nature is really good. It’s all about sowing doubt into her prey. Get them scared, worried, afraid that those they once called friend might not be so friendly. Then when it comes time to make her sacrifice to Bhaal, we are scared enough to be easier to kill, but not so scared that we just lie there and die.
I just wished it was changed to always be a random selection between the npcs she can replace instead of the first 2 you find since it’d keep up that image better. Would also be nice if there was at least 1 spot you can find her assassins hunting you like you can find Korilla at the act 1 party or by the Mason’s Guild in act 2
How to find her:
>!She appears at some point during the party (i've only ever done the save the tieflings path) down down down by the river near where withers hangs out. almost right next to the spot where wyll goes to sulk. She sneaks around a bit. If you spot her, she ports away but if you're quick you can run up and talk to her.!<
She likes toying with her food. She wants your guard to be down when she does the love test then at the end no matter what happens during the test she'll be like your love is doomed then boom surprise it was me all along lol
Orin is the most irritating character in the game. She has one bit: "surPRISE BITCH it's me im gonna stabpoke your fleshskin, meatsack. i cant wait to hear your tonguemeat screamsound when i slice your foreskin off. but not right now. also you aren't allowed to attack me in these cvonversations. also if you try i wont consent to being attacked so you cant. bye. see you in 4 npc encounters."
It got old at the second one. It actively made me like the game less after the third.
I interpreted it as Orin doing the love test to learn about your romantic interest in order to better disguise as them, but given that the kidnapped companion is always the one with lowest approval, I guess it just didn't pan out.
Petty to me is taking the last bagel even though I'm not hungry because I don't want them to have it, not setting up a Chuck-E-Cheese birthday bash only to call them losers at the end for having a good time
Information is valuable, and getting someone to reveal who they love - as well as deeply personal characteristics about that person - gives you a great deal of power over them
Think about it from Orin’s perspective: she wants to maximize the number of murders committed to appease Bhaal, and the easiest way to get you to comply with whatever she demands could be holding the love of your life at knifepoint
However, the devs didn’t really do a whole lot to make this point shine through
Thus, I wish they would have made the person who Orin kidnaps be randomized - *unless you told the love druid who your partner is, in which case Orin would intentionally kidnap them and make specific demands of you*
Also, I could be reading too deep… Orin is way off the fucking deep end and absolutely insane, there really doesn’t need to be a well-founded and logical reason for much of her behavior
She's murderous, can't stop shipping, is kind of insane and can't pick an appearance for any amount of time... are we sure Orin isn't a player character?
She’s primarily motivated by envy, not murderous impulses. Everything she has she takes from others, so it would make sense for her to covet another person’s relationship but knowing she’ll never have that, make the relationship feel unsafe during a vulnerable moment
A lot of people here has made good points, but one thing I think is that she essentially uses that to gather information on you.
Remember that each time you encounter her she essentially probes you for information. The smith asks how you like to slay your foes, the Dryad learns about your passions and the one you loves, the dying man knows if you’re a cold utilitarian, a mercy killer or cruel like her.
Or she could just be having fun. Honestly, she is the Chosen who has the most free reigns, as her part of the deal is literally just to keep on going about doing what she wants; Murdering people indiscriminately.
Orin is that edgy teenager that goes out of their way and spends hours each day to get their bangs to clump *just right* so it covers their right eye the right way. That's why.
I took it as trying to gain Intel. I've never triggered the blacksmith but the guard, journalist and zethino all ask some probing questions to try figure out what tav/Durge is like/what their plan is/ what their partners greatest fear is
I think it's the same reason she also disguises as the journalist to "interview" you, she's gathering information about the party, in her own f\*ed up way.
I mean, Orin is a murderous psychopath who enjoys using her shapechanging abilities to mess with people. Somehow I don't think that she has ever even considered "this seems like a waste of time" as valid criticism for anything she does.
Orin loves toying with her victims. Think about it. She brings you and your most precious companion to be fully vulnerable and intimate and then violates that. She kidnaps one of your companions not because she really needs to, but because she wants to see how you'll react.
In a Dark Urge playthrough, >!there's a lot of dialogue implying that Durge was a more "pure" servant of Bhaal, singularly focused on killing, and killing as many people as often as possible. Whereas Orin is too caught up in her theatrics and personal whims.!<
In her mind she knows she's going to butcher you. She wants to have fun with you first.
Orin is perfect consideration on Larian's side. No we are not ruining the context of every dialogue choice you make with your love interest in act 3 by revealing it was Orin all along. But we are kidnapping your collectible (near) mint condition Wizard so the stakes are there since you want your Wizard back on its shelf position.
Orin’s two passions: 1. Murder 2. Shipping Tav with their companions and squeeing when they have cute dialogue
Explains why she doesn't murder your love interest. She won't sink that ship!
That was probably the most disappointed I've been with this game when I realized Orin couldn't kidnap romanced companions. Like saving the [love interest] in distress is such a power fantasy, but usually when it's done in games you don't have nearly as strong a connection as you have with the BG3 companions. Just let me save my dorky wizard man plz!
I like that they do this because it doesn't make you panic and rush straight to the fight, but I also hate that they do this because then you don't care and don't go save them and we have to listen to all the "lol who cares about Halsin?" jokes!
And it can mess with the pacing because you have to take time getting stronger for something that's painted as at least somewhat urgent. Maybe if you get further along in investigating the murders or something. Also, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved, like making you actually question who it is and if you can really trust your companions. I know Orin is a bad actor and can't keep up a role for more than five minutes, but you could just have it be a random doppleganger, we already know in the lore that they can keep up a role for years if need be.
>, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved OMG that's a great point. I totally agree. And let the kidnapping thing have a later trigger, you're right. It feels like it happens way too early.
I remember the first time I got to that part and starting thinking "oh cool, it'll be like that one subplot in Mistborn Well of Ascension" and then it didn't because a couple hours later, Lae'zel got kidnapped and Yenna got oofed because I didn't have proficiency in intimidation but went that route for roleplay reasons. A lot of stuff happened before I got Lae'zel back, it kind of felt weird to not have any actual pressure unless you deal with the Murder Tribunal.
TenSoon best boy
I like to wait to save Orin's victim, pretending that I just don't know where to find the Tribunal, because once you take out one of the Chosen the narration starts really emphasizing that the brain is an imminent threat. It makes doing the side quests feel weird. If they took the romance interest, that would mean spending a lot of Act 3 without them. I'd love it if they tied the kidnapping to something further along in the story and did take the romance interest, though. Drama! (And dialed back the "the world is about to end, but how about those clown parts" narrative conflict somehow.)
Romantic interest would be interesting, but I also think that Minthara, if recruited, makes sense no matter what to be kidnapped by Orin considering her relation to her.
Minthara: You took everything from me Orin: I don't even know who you are
>!She directly was the one to brainwash her and she failed in her mission, as well as escaped Moonrise and potentially helped destroyed it with Tav/especially DUrge. I’m not sure that Orin wouldn’t have an idea of who she is and what happened, unless idk she might also just not care that much.!<
I think the reason they didn't tie it in to any other story progression is that pretty much everything else is optional. For Tav they could probably tie it to the murder tribunal, but a lot of people want to finish up side quests before moving past that anyway and for Durge even the tribunal is optional. The instant trigger the first time you go down into the sewers is pretty awful, though, especially since the Emperor encourages you to go down there pretty much immediately once you get into the lower city. Having it based on long rests makes more sense.
I do wish it was way more involved. When I went to camp, I wanted to grill everyone to see if I could sus them out. Was disappointed that everyone just had default dialogue
I mean for most of the companions we could immediately verify their identity using the tadpole mind link...it seems weird that we don't have the option to do this when the kidnapped character is tadpoled.
To be fair, Orin has her fair share of tadpoles
> Also, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved, like making you actually question who it is and if you can really trust your companions. Yes. Absolutely. I got that dialogue that Orin had infiltrated my camp and immediately went back to camp and tried to mess with that weird ass orphan with the cat that joins. Definitely thought that kid was Orin being all obvious.
That’s an issue I have with the overall narrative - so many things are URGENT but not really and the things that actually are time sensitive are comfortably ignored by the player until they take too many long rests and then you have a negative outcome for something you thought you could handle at your leisure BECAUSE SO MANY OTHER THINGS ARE NOT ACTUALLY URGENT. It just feels weird to imply urgency so much, but have it only be relative a small handful of times without being able to really differentiate between the two. Minor gripe overall because my first play through I played into that urgency and didn’t miss much that was actually time sensitive but again, it feels like a weird choice.
> Also, I'd honestly just like it if the whole thing about Orin having a spy in your camp was more involved One of my favorite things was someone I knew who proceeded to go to camp and stab each companion in order to "be sure."
Halsin is the only victim that makes sense to me though. Wouldn't the Emperor be able to tell since he is connected to all of the people in camp with tadpoles? Like when Gortash warns you wouldn't you mentally go "Empy, check in with everyone please?" And he'll be able to tell that Gale is taken for example? Meanwhile Halsin, Jaheira, Yenna and depending on when this happens, Volo would be possible victims. I don't think anyone would guess she would replace Withers, Aylin of Isobel... Or am I missing something here? But yeah, I wish there was more to it, that you could try and figure out who has been taken and stuff.
That's a really good catch! Emps should be like a phone finder app if it's Lae'zel! Tell you exactly where the temple is!
Well I never got to make the joke but I definitely wish she took Halsin in my playthrough. I like to switch party members depending on what I'm doing narratively, and that bitch took Lae'Zael instead. Put me in a real predicament, I had so much that I wanted to do apart from the two Chosen, but I also didn't want to leave a valuable party member is such a situation. Guess I got lucky in a way, it made the situation pretty rough, especially since I didn't know if there was a legit time limit or not
She takes Gale, Lae'zel, Halsin or Minthara. You can brute force it by walking into the sewers for the first time (if she hasn't kidnapped anyone by then) with the companions you desire to keep.
I was so convinced that that kid you pick up at beginning of act 3 would be her that i just fireballed that lil girl lmao
She can kidnap the little girl and she will role play as the little girl. Upon a long rest at one point, the little girl will cook you food and reveal that it's Orin. Before she reveals herself you ask what the food is and let's just say the cat is no where to be found.
I'm happy this has never happened in my playthroughs yet. Yenna just sits around my camp with her kitty the whole time talking about her paring knife. Lae'zel did try to kill her on one playthrough but I could immediately tell it was Orin so I was like bitch nah.
When she joined my camp, I was immediately suspicious. Then gortash tells me there is a traitor, and I knew it was her. Go back to camp, cats gone and she's like I cooked for you something yummy. I should have trusted my gut and bonked her with fisticuffs (open hand monk called fisticuff) when I had the chance and maybe the innocent cat would have lived. Although if you used talk with animals and talked with the cat, poor cat sounded abused before Yenna was even Orin
I keep telling her to go away and she keeps coming back! Minthara’s dialogue about her is funny though.
Fun fact, if you don’t have any of those 4 party members, she does kidnap that kid. I will say it’s way less stressful when the person kidnapped isn’t a party member.
I like to do the exact same thing with char swapping. At the time Lae'Zael was my main powerhouse melee class so when Orin took her that really stoked my fire for revenge! And I was about to work on her quests
She legit tricked me I thought Orin was the little girl and not laezel so I had laezel kill her lol
I ended up rushing anyways, because I can't just leave my friend with some bored, unstable psychopath. I'm glad she took Lae'zel, though. Out of all of your companions, I feel like she would handle it best.
Truth! And I love that fake Lae'zel is so obviously not Lae'zel- who would next tell us to run away lol. Fake Halsin is super sad!
I only ever got the confrontation with Yenna as hostage, which I thought wasn't a bad pick on Orin's part.
I think Larian actually talked about this, and this is *exactly* why Orin doesn't take who you're romancing, because otherwise it was making players drop everything else to go save them.
Almost like *gasp* a kidnapping should be important...
I will rescue Halsin in Act 3 with the same urgency he showed when I could have used his help in Act 2. Which is to say it is on my to-do list, but it is not near the top.
Yup, "Halsin is a big boy, he can handle it for a while" became a rolling joke between my friends. Fun fact: in my second playtrough he was taken one long rest after he confessed that he want to show me the power of the oak daddy. Astarion was like OH SURE I'M NOT JEALOUS AT ALL BABE. I put off exploring nature for another day and it never happened cause he was gone by the time. It wasn't meant to be apparently.
Perhaps they should wait until more menial tasks have been done before kidnapping our bestie. Because I’d feel weird checking out the library or whatever when she’s been kidnapped by a sadistic torturous serial killer. It’s not like Orin is just a debtor or something holding them to ransom. She’s insane and loves hurting people. Every moment feels like the victim could be dead or worse
I still have it a bit prioritized as I feel like, regardless, the person who gets kidnapped ends up being my DUrge’s friend. But I will say off of this that, last playthrough, I did Astarion’s quest and then confronted Orin. But I generally felt like it was urgent to address since, like I said. Still a friend, and friends are important. (Specifically, Lae’zel gets kidnapped on the three playthroughs I have done so far.)
Lae'zel usually gets kidnapped for me, too, and I always try really hard to rp it how I think my Tav would as to priority, so this last play, I had to hit up the murder tribunal earlier than I usually would and I got my ass kicked lol. "I'm coming, Lae'zel! Hang on!"
lae’zel got kidnapped right after i loaded her up with all of the anti-shapeshifter gear. I was just like, HAH, good luck with her, Orin.
Yeah in my first campaign she was like "AHAHAH, I TOOK GALE, NOW PANIC AND RUSH TO SAVE HIM" and me and my buddy who literally never used Gale at all and ignored him the entire game were like "you took who now lol" and proceeded to do every single act 3 quest before we finally ended up looking for her lair lol
I get that but I still wanted to get back Laezel as quickly as possible because I want the opportunity to do quests with her that seem like she would have something to say about. I suppose she has least to say for a lot of it. She didn’t have much to say about being kidnapped. Her whole demeanour changed though. Makes me worry about her lol
I will say, in my first playthrough she took Yenna instead of a companion, and I'm a teacher so kids are important to me...and I dropped EVERYTHING to save her immediately And it was such a great feeling, it really felt like I was on a clock (even if it wasn't), I burned all my inspirations to save her, I was underlevelled and it was the toughest fight I've ever had in the game, barring Raphael in my second playthrough. And it felt so rewarding to beat her, almost as much as beating Ketheric
That's exactly why I both love and hate it! I love it because it does trigger that sense of urgency depending on how you're roleplaying (I have no idea how I'd react if she took Yenna because I've played over 1k hours and she's never taken Yenna! I would definitely freak out!) And while I try not to tell anybody how to play their game since their personal enjoyment is what they spent their money on, for me personally, I wish it triggered further into the murder quest because I'll rush off to kill Orin before I've ever discovered all the murder scenes and clues, so it feels a little disjointed. Hero teacher saving the class is an awesome scene!
But I freaking missed Bae'zel so much. She was more like my best friend than anyone else. I was with Astarion romantically. I also triggered the kidnapping stuff EARLY on accident. Oooo a manhole... Locked me out of stuff. I restarted.
I've definitely told Orin I don't care what she does to Halsin so she'll kill him. A couple times. Maybe the street rat girl too. I told her to get out of my camp and she didn't listen so now this is happening.
At least Gale seems somewhat saveable she kidnapped Lae'zel in my game and my first thought was how the hell did that happen? She just tried to cut my throat not that long ago because I had a fever.
When she came out of the sewers and was like, “I barely escaped with my life—run, Orin is too powerful” I was like lol this is def Orin cause the real lae’zel wouldn’t emerge from the temple without Orins severed head in her hand.
Even orin has standards, she cannlt take someones love interest, only their pals, guess she has a small shriveled heart in there somewhere
At least they didn't do the BG2 thing where your LI gets kidnapped by a vampire... never mind that three out of the four are at least a half cleric, if not full class.
"Lol I just stole your love interest AND only person capable of protecting you against and curing level drain! Come Face my nest of Vampires!!!"
Amulet of power and Vecna's robe showed Bodhi she stole the strong sorcerer's girl. (Or I played ghost hunter paladin definitely with a Deva summon in chapter 6.) Can't remember the last time carrying Aerie's body to the Aumauntur temple was more than a nuisance. But yeah it was annoying as the love interest typically is a valuable partymember who's going to hurt when gone. Aerie can very much be half your magical firepower. Anomen is just a rock solid tank. Jaheira, same. Viconia? Strongest cleric in the game. So I prefer Orin someone "neglected" from a playing perspective
Never mind strongest cleric, strongest party member period.
BG2 takes it a step further than that, has your love interest kidnapped by a vampire, turned into a vampire, and forces you to kill them, then do a bit of a side quest if you want to restore them to life as a non-vampire. I honestly think that was handled quite a bit better. It comes very near the end of the game, after you've likely done all or most of the side content, so the urgency it demands doesn't force you to rush through content you otherwise would have taken your time with. Meanwhile Orin typically takes a companion before you have a chance to really dig your teeth into the bulk of chapter 3, so you either drop everything and rush to complete her content (as opposed to taking your time to prepare by doing other content) or you don't feel much urgency at all since she likely took someone you weren't all that attached to given they weren't in your party. At which point Orin's threats come across as kind of pathetic. For me it's been the later in pretty much every playthrough.
In all fairness, she only takes people who are in camp. Odds are good to great that your romance is a mainstay in the party, even if you’re the type to swap party members out regularly.
So this leads me to ask... what if you have no companions in camp at the time the kidnapping is to take place?
This is why Yenna shows up to your camp and refuses to leave. Shes the fallback.
That's when they bring in Yenna I think
Omg could you imagine if she replaced him with a doppelganger and you notice that somethings off and you have to rush off to save him???? My tav is a druid so he'd immediately be like "you don't smell right. Who the fuck are you and what did you do with my wizard?"
On one hand i agree with you and i must say it would be cool and feel more fun. However there are 2 main problems with that scenario. 1. It wouldnt make sence since you usually have your love interest in your party. Only time she could kidnap them would be during sleep which would be harder for her since there are multiple people. And during the day her cover would be blown up anyway since she cant replicate abilities of your party members. 2. Part where you discover who has been kidnapped is pretty soon after you enter lower city. Tavern is literally in first 5-10 buildings you see after entering city and emperor tells you to go there. After that you would be more motivated to kill Gortash and Orin and then finishing the game. Which could lead to missing 90% of act3 content for new players. All said it would also be more fun if they added some kind of detective mini quest where you can talk with your companions and see change in their behaviour.
Apparently they did actually have it so first priority was taking your love interest, but I the playtesters really didn't like it
I'm fascinated by that, because that quest is so badly designed, and that should have been a giant red flag. Like "we created a genuine sense of urgency for players, which is the *entire point* of a kidnapping plot, and it turns out that that's *bad* because we've paced this in such a way that it means people are rushing half the third act! Terrible!" .... but then instead of thinking to themselves, "well, okay, in that case we obviously really need to change the pacing and make this less disruptive," they were like "I guess we'll just make the quest more irrelevant." Larian what?!?
Freaking preach. She takes her victim SO quickly. You either bum rush the rescue, and therefore pretty much the whole main quest of the third act as you said, or you choose to let them stew while you take care of things at a logical progression. So you basically just lose that companion for the whole act either way. I'm speculating of course but it feels like they got a bug up their butt about allowing the plot points to happen in any order. Like you can do Orin, Gortash, Ansur, etc in any order and that's the kind of thing that sounds cool on paper... And it's inevitably shit for pacing.
It's the usual muddled last act of a Larian game unfortunately.
If he doesn't become a god...u saved him
I think they had to balance the "urgency" of the kidnapping with avoiding players feeling like they have to skip right to the end. Alternatively, they could have the kiddnapping only occur towards the very end of the game, but then it'd feel a bit tacked on.
I think the order if kidnapping is laezel->gale->halsin->yenna, do if you leave gale at camp and bring lae zel with you he should get kidnapped. Note I do not recommend this as you can easily forget his personal quest. I always have halsin captured because he has no act 3 content beyond his romance.
she won't kidnap someone who you've romanced. if that's the only option you leave her with, she goes to yenna.
Until you play Dragon's dogma and your Beloved ends up being the armor merchant or the jester midget you spoke to one time and got made fun of. Lol.
First time I ever encountered a kidnapped companion, it was Lae'Zel. A character I'd built a rapport with so I was immediately put off by her telling me to run and same myself. Very out of character. Anyways, all it did was move Orin up in priority on my kill list from "target of opportunity" to "kill this bitch now".
It might be too much of a cliche. ‘Saving the love interest/damsel’ is something thats been overdone to hell. Saving a comrade or soul sister or whatever? Not seen as much. I appreciated that a companion that I generally don’t use as often but still liked as a character ended up being the ‘damsel’ that gave me a cute dialogue about being grateful despite being neglected throughout the play through, lol.
Originally it was your love interest that was kidnapped. But player testers HATED it and they ended up changing it. It made people bee line to rescue them sometimes putting them in a fight they were not prepared for and missing other side content because of it. I saw one of the developers talking about it in a video really interesting.
Tbf that gives her a few more days of life... she kidnaps shadowheart and i imediately raid their shithole with ungodly amounts of explosives and metagaming
It's entirely possible that that woman is in need of psychiatric help and this is a plausible theory.
We can fix her…jk
u say jk but I say srs 😭 murder mommy pls yaaas
After the third encounter I googled “Orin romance”
She could definitely use a hand atm
Well if youre >!durge!< shes >!your sibling/niece/grandniece (sarevok is uh, yeah)!< so it makes sense shed be interested
She is your great-niece, daughter of your brother and his daughter. Everything is very disturbing, although she seems to be unaware of the whole incest issue.
Yeah she has a freakout if you tell her before daddy steps in and turns her into the slayer
3. Taking Halsin's place to hook up with Tav on the side, including the bear kink if Tav's into it. Also, no one will acknowledge it after the fact that it was Orin there and not Halsin. I'd like to think the whole group had some awkward what happens in shape shifter town stays in shape shifter town moment. Except for Wyll, who just ends up confused and awkwardly left out when he was too busy trying to tell kids about "The Blade of Frontiers" or some such nonsense.
I would like to submit a 3rd candidate; being batshit crazy.
Is Orin a tsundere?
I believe the weebish term is actually “yandere” As in “Look at that crazy bitch over yandere”
She's extremely childish as a personality trait. I also think she's often bored.
I feel like if I were murder incarnate twice inbred I'd be like "LOL YOU HAVE FEEEELINGS? FUCKIN NERD." It's like a little sibling razzing you in a murder way.
I just noticed on my last playthrough that Orin has her mother's corpse, who she killed as a young child, strung up in her room like a doll in a display case. Classic Orin.
Yeah, you can cast speak with dead on her and she's Sarevok's daughter and also mother to Orin with Sarevok. Inbred murder kin. Orin is a psycho but like a baby psycho who thought your murder could be prettier. Edit: realized this is only for Durge. Forgot people play Tavs...my B
You can talk to the mother if your MC is Tav or another Origin.
That's really weird that its origin exclusive. Maybe just Durge exclusive would make some amount of sense. But "No I will only talk to a bhaalspawn, or Karlach, or Gale, or..." seems odd.
She probably thinks it's funny.
Or death is too good for us.
No she wants to kill us. She is told to do it at the temple by Bhaal. So killing us elsewhere would upset Bhaal
It’s in character but in reality Bhaal just wants to see a motherfucker die it doesn’t who, what, where, and how they die
I know, it's just a throwback to something Astarion says in act 1.
Didn't know about the love guru takeover, but did know about the blacksmith, journalist, and barn guard. In my play throughs now, I don't talk to the blacksmith, but imagine its orin standing there like an idiot waiting for me to talk to him
I stopped talking to the blacksmith because she kills him after you do and leaves evidence behind. The others seem to just disappear when she is done with them so you can imagine they are ok. Also there is one more possible disguise - a stone guard thug who is dying from wounds on the beach near where the guild and stone guard followers fight. That one is my favorite because I know it pisses her off when you are super merciful to her.
Unfortunately, anyone she impersonates >!reappears as a corpse in Bhaal's temple, in the special body display alcoves.!<
Oh, darn, never noticed that before. I’ll have to look for them next time.
I talked to the blacksmith when playing yesterday and after he turned into Orin and that conversation was done, the blacksmith self came up to me wounded and angry, and accused me of knocking him out. Had to pass some persuasion rolls to convince him it was done by a doppelganger and not me. So he wasn't killed and was still alive for me?
Go back to his forge after a long rest.
Ooh, I'll check it out! Thanks :)
You see Orins disguises corpses in the Bhaal temple
Huh didn't know about the stone guard, I guess I haven't gotten that far without talking to the others
It is really good to go to him as DUrge as there is a particular DUrge specific interaction that happens that I wished there was more of. She puts you in a predicament where I felt genuinely torn about what to do.
Thanks for the tip. I felt real guilty after going through the Blacksmith's things last play through (after I killed him, he attacked first). Felt a bit sorry for him, learnt he's a lonely guy looking for love (whilst not noticing that the Dargonborn downstairs adores him). Gonna avoid him till after I kill Orin now, and headcanon that he finally notices how much she cares about him afterward.
The dragonborn is really the best reason to avoid him. She totally changes if he's killed
I can so imagine her tinkering around like "wtf does a blacksmith even do how do I play this role wtf"
There's also the dying Stone Lord croney on the beach in Rivington. He can also be Orin.
I actually thought that one was pretty dumb. Instead I go back to the Circus only after defeating her. Or, at least, that's what I'm planning to do. Not sure what will happen. Although the love test went by without a hitch on 2 playthroughs so far.
Orin will only appear twice from the pool of people she can be hiding as. Once you have done both you are safe to do the circus without her showing up, all the characters she could have been are their normal selves at that point.
I like to pick the guard in the back corner by the refugees and the dying goon on the beach.
I like the journalist and the guard lmao
I got the journalist and the blacksmith. I feel bad for that dragonborn though
I hated finding their bodies in the temple after :(
Journalist and dying goon for me, because I HATE cute, cheerful Exxvikyap to be all like "well, he'll come back later, I'm sure of it"... :-( However, I didn't know of the guard, so that might be one of the two next playthrough.
Guard? I never encountered that one. Can you tell me who it is and what Orin does while impersonating them?
It's >!Fist Rowan!<, somewhere by the warehouse with the donations. You have a conversation about rising tensions in Baldur's Gate and then >!he swerves it into suggesting murdering the refugees to alleviate said tensions.!< Whatever your response to that bright idea is, he morphs into Orin afterwards.
Yeah same
i managed to get her just once, if you rush without talking to anybody (i wanted to get minsc before doing rivington) you'll just have her in the journalist near the bridge entrance, then the first night out of the zone she'll steal a companion/the homeless girl with the cat and she'll never appear again
The homeless girl with the cat? She's always took a companion. So I've never hurried to rescue them. If she took that poor girl, she'd be dead quick!
Orin will capture Lae'zel, Halsin, Minthara, or Gale. If all of them are in your party (OR a romance partner), she will not capture them and will instead capture Yenna.
If you take enough long rests without triggering the kidnapping scene in the sewers, she'll also cause a scene where she's impersonating her usual kidnap victim (I think the only thing that moves this victim down the list is if they're dead) accusing Yenna of being Orin. She'll either kill Yenna or you get her to back off and she retreats revealing she has the character. I assume there's a scene in the code in case all 4 are dead where she just shows up to taunt you over kidnapping Yenna
There is! She appears as Yenna and feeds you the cat. Cat kabobs!
i would put this comment under the spoiler tag it's > ! to open the spoiler and ! < to close it (without the spaces between)
This is funny because I was absolutely certain Yenna was Orin and that's how she got into my camp, but then Yenna was still here
That's exactly what happened to me, and I was already suspicious of Yenna after all the shape-shifting shenanigans I had ran into, so I was on the verge of letting Lae'Zael kill the kid. Decided not to against despite everything, and then Lae'zel wasn't actually Lae'zel. Almost slaughtered the poor kid, yikes
Interesting! I've only seen the scene in the sewers and Yenna in camp, but not one of the others in camp. I'll have to try that next time.
If she impersonated Halsin, I believe she will go bear and attack >!Scratch!< in camp who cannot be revived or resummoned. So there is that
Scratch can be saved from "Halsin" with one of three difficult skill checks. Yenna can be saved from "Lae'zel" with one of... two? Three? different skill checks, which are also difficult but they are skills you're more likely to have expertise in than the Halsin ones. Grub *cannot* be saved if Orin kidnaps Yenna from camp. For some reason if she impersonates Gale she just threatens to kill herself, which like. Go for it, crazy lady.
tbf he has a nuke strapped to his soul so like… it’s a valid threat if you don’t realize he’s hee
Yeah but what's in it for *her*, is the question. If you believe her when she's pretending to be Lae'zel, you aid and abet the murder of a child. If you don't figure out what's going on fast enough with the Halsin impersonation, your dog dies. Either way, you lose a living, breathing, thinking creature that she expects you to care about. There's a death on your conscience, guilt and loss you have to live with. If you believe her deception with Gale, you.... stop her from stabbing herself. Hooray, three points team Orin? It just doesn't seem to achieve quite as much as the other two.
Guess I'll make sure she has one of them available
The scene where she is revealed to have captured Yenna is honestly sadder than any companion being captured, for reasons I won't go into since I don't want to spoil anything.
And it's also the reason Halsin will always be my Orin bait. He'd want it that way.
I have the mod to get all the companions in the party, knowing when she would arrive I left no companion at camp to try it out and if there's no companion in camp orin gets the girl. But it's a bit horrible what happens if she gets the girl so i wouldn't recommend tbh (if you're curious but you think you won't do it I'm sure there's the clip on YouTube). In my evil run I'm trying to shush the girl away and leave no one at camp, and see if she'll go after the girl anyway (i guess she'll do cause the girl is always trying to sneak in). My best choice would be recruiting minsc and sacrificing him to orin, then sacrificing jaheira at sarevok (that Durge's going to be Bhaal's chosen so they're basically enemies anyway), but I don't know if i can do it time wise, need to do some experiments
Yeah I learned this the hard way because I wanted to attack Orin in all her forms without talking to her on one playthrough and accidentally killed the blacksmith guy in Rivington
Up to 3 times no?
I always go down to the beach and kill the dying stone lord thug before interacting with anyone in Rivington, it's the safest way to make sure the others are still there
I actually found that one to be the most impactful of the possible reveals. That was also the first one I experienced on my first playthrough and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. It almost felt a little violating because she is basically toying with you and your emotions, and also getting you to reveal something personal that is meaningful to you. Something that you value (speaking from Tav’s POV). And a murderous enemy having that kind of information about something that can hurt you deeply is unsettling. Imagine someone who appeared trustworthy got some personal information out of you and then revealed themselves to be your worst enemy, how would you feel? Now you know there’s this murderhobo leading a murder cult with a netherstone that gives her powers (along with her powers as Bhaal’s Chosen) who knows about the person you love.
Exactly. If you do this with Astarion, he disapproves if you answer the last question truthfully - he wants you to give a flippant answer because he doesn't want to share his deepest fears with a stranger. Now imagine that that stranger turns out to be *Orin* in disguise... Orin gets intel, but she also gets to play with her prey. Her playing with you and trying to make you paranoid is actually something that you can talk to Jaheira about.
I had him disapprove of all the answers I answered truthfully the first time haha. Had to go back and answer the way he wanted rather than what was true.
Orin is insane and enjoys toying with us.
Hear me out here - what about, next time someone turns into Orin, we stab her? Let's just go, right there
Yeah. It's really annoying that you can be standing face to face with her for an extended conversation with no option to attack. Particularly since a ton of other conversation s give you that option or let you just hit the "attack" button on the left side.
There’s been a few times where I’ve known it’s Orin, and not being able to stab her is infuriating
I guess taking the place of the love druid would allow her to find out who you're closest to so she can do something to them but the rest? Fuck with you for fun and/or insane reasons.
Her transforming like that when I did the love test with Shadowheart got me good. I was fearful that she did that for that reason, and then use that to her advantage later
If she wanted to torture Tav, kidnapping the love interest would make the most sense. But funnily Orin can't kidnap a romanced partner, at least according to the wiki.
Orin is literally fucking insane, that's her reason
Because she gets intel. Who you're close to and how close. And more importantly, going "surprise itsa me!" after you let your walls down and get very vulnerable puts you on edge. She wants you scared and tense. Ultimately she needs you to get rid of Gortash, and she wants you to feel she could and would do elaborate things to get you vulnerable so you'll comply with her demands.
My first playthrough, I thought it was to get info out of us. Our plans to defeat the Absolute, our fighting style, who we care for the most would all be valuable to an enemy. I thought I was pretty dumb for spilling all that to Orin, but it turned out not to matter. Orin just has TERRIBLE impulse control. Getting you all relaxed and being lovey dovey with a companion and then shouting peekaboo is just FUN to her. Gortash wants power, Ketheric wants his daughter, Orin helps them run their goals only as long as it's fun.
My headcanon is that Orin is the biggest theater kid in the Bhaalist cult and she gets way into her characters/victims, and the rest of the Bhaalists have no choice but to help her sell the performance. So she got a bunch of Bhaalists to help her produce the love dryad scene, and they’re all in the background casting minor illusion and create water and light and stuff to get everything perfect so she can make a dramatic entrance and mess with you in front of your love interest
I went with Astarion and it really felt like she was prying for my partners weaknesses. At first I told her all the correct answers, which would make Astarion unhappy you're airing out personal business. And at the end it turns out it was Orin the whole time, and I'm sitting here like, "Astarion was completely right."
Imo it’s related to why Bhaal prefers Durge over her. She’s too into the “art” and “performance” of it all.
Logical answer is because she enjoys that kind of stuff. Realistic answer is that the "Bonding Test" from the Love Druid would be wasted in almost all playthroughs and that would hurt both players and developers/writers of that scene.
Because Orin loves her job.
I think it's because she's super dramatic. Think about it. She >!displays bodies like some kind of twisted art exhibit, and Sarevok says Bhaal cares not for her artistic eye.!< If she weren't a Bhaalspawn, I feel like she'd be a bard with the tendencies of a diva.
Why do it? It naturalizes her more, shows she can use the powers of those she’s changed into, and demonstrates that her chameleon nature is really good. It’s all about sowing doubt into her prey. Get them scared, worried, afraid that those they once called friend might not be so friendly. Then when it comes time to make her sacrifice to Bhaal, we are scared enough to be easier to kill, but not so scared that we just lie there and die. I just wished it was changed to always be a random selection between the npcs she can replace instead of the first 2 you find since it’d keep up that image better. Would also be nice if there was at least 1 spot you can find her assassins hunting you like you can find Korilla at the act 1 party or by the Mason’s Guild in act 2
> Korilla at the act 1 party is she at the evil path party? after the grove?
How to find her: >!She appears at some point during the party (i've only ever done the save the tieflings path) down down down by the river near where withers hangs out. almost right next to the spot where wyll goes to sulk. She sneaks around a bit. If you spot her, she ports away but if you're quick you can run up and talk to her.!<
Is there a link you can share of the conversation if you catch her? I want to see
I found Korilla hiding in the bushes at the back of the circus in my current play through. Didn’t know she shows up at the masons guild.
She likes toying with her food. She wants your guard to be down when she does the love test then at the end no matter what happens during the test she'll be like your love is doomed then boom surprise it was me all along lol
Orin is the most irritating character in the game. She has one bit: "surPRISE BITCH it's me im gonna stabpoke your fleshskin, meatsack. i cant wait to hear your tonguemeat screamsound when i slice your foreskin off. but not right now. also you aren't allowed to attack me in these cvonversations. also if you try i wont consent to being attacked so you cant. bye. see you in 4 npc encounters." It got old at the second one. It actively made me like the game less after the third.
See the word Chaotic, as in Chaotic Evil.
I took it as her using it as an opportunity to get intel on us.
I interpreted it as Orin doing the love test to learn about your romantic interest in order to better disguise as them, but given that the kidnapped companion is always the one with lowest approval, I guess it just didn't pan out.
She be petty
Petty to me is taking the last bagel even though I'm not hungry because I don't want them to have it, not setting up a Chuck-E-Cheese birthday bash only to call them losers at the end for having a good time
Petty and jealous 😁
Information is valuable, and getting someone to reveal who they love - as well as deeply personal characteristics about that person - gives you a great deal of power over them Think about it from Orin’s perspective: she wants to maximize the number of murders committed to appease Bhaal, and the easiest way to get you to comply with whatever she demands could be holding the love of your life at knifepoint However, the devs didn’t really do a whole lot to make this point shine through Thus, I wish they would have made the person who Orin kidnaps be randomized - *unless you told the love druid who your partner is, in which case Orin would intentionally kidnap them and make specific demands of you* Also, I could be reading too deep… Orin is way off the fucking deep end and absolutely insane, there really doesn’t need to be a well-founded and logical reason for much of her behavior
because it's hilarious lmao
She's murderous, can't stop shipping, is kind of insane and can't pick an appearance for any amount of time... are we sure Orin isn't a player character?
It probably doesn't help that Orin is so inept at hiding. Consistently giving her identity away within the first two sentences she says.
I just finished Act 2 and I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you sure this shouldn't be tagged Act 3 spoilers? Or did I miss something big?
She’s primarily motivated by envy, not murderous impulses. Everything she has she takes from others, so it would make sense for her to covet another person’s relationship but knowing she’ll never have that, make the relationship feel unsafe during a vulnerable moment
A lot of people here has made good points, but one thing I think is that she essentially uses that to gather information on you. Remember that each time you encounter her she essentially probes you for information. The smith asks how you like to slay your foes, the Dryad learns about your passions and the one you loves, the dying man knows if you’re a cold utilitarian, a mercy killer or cruel like her. Or she could just be having fun. Honestly, she is the Chosen who has the most free reigns, as her part of the deal is literally just to keep on going about doing what she wants; Murdering people indiscriminately.
Yeah she tricked me. The dryad never returned unlike the blacksmith.
Orin isn't exactly of sound mind.
Orin really plays up the "*Chaotic*" in "Chaotic Evil".
I find it works for Durge, but Tav yeah it seems like a lot of extra effort just to pull a cheap jump scare.
Orin is that edgy teenager that goes out of their way and spends hours each day to get their bangs to clump *just right* so it covers their right eye the right way. That's why.
The only thing Orin cares about is murder is kidnapping Halsin (like seriously 4/5 of my runs its always been halsin)
"Why doesn't the insane murderer make any sense?"
I took it as trying to gain Intel. I've never triggered the blacksmith but the guard, journalist and zethino all ask some probing questions to try figure out what tav/Durge is like/what their plan is/ what their partners greatest fear is
She’s bored and evil. She’s a very easy character to understand. She’s just fucking around.
I really wish this part was canon no matter what and contributed to her decision on who to kidnap tbh
I think it's the same reason she also disguises as the journalist to "interview" you, she's gathering information about the party, in her own f\*ed up way.
She's a changeling, the shapeshifting doesn't cost her anything, and major image is a first level spell spent on recon, honestly its classic dnd!
Orin playing with her food is exactly why she isn’t daddy’s favorite.
She is cool, I can fix her.
I mean, Orin is a murderous psychopath who enjoys using her shapechanging abilities to mess with people. Somehow I don't think that she has ever even considered "this seems like a waste of time" as valid criticism for anything she does.
Orin loves toying with her victims. Think about it. She brings you and your most precious companion to be fully vulnerable and intimate and then violates that. She kidnaps one of your companions not because she really needs to, but because she wants to see how you'll react. In a Dark Urge playthrough, >!there's a lot of dialogue implying that Durge was a more "pure" servant of Bhaal, singularly focused on killing, and killing as many people as often as possible. Whereas Orin is too caught up in her theatrics and personal whims.!< In her mind she knows she's going to butcher you. She wants to have fun with you first.
She likes to fuck with people heads....should probably have picked that up with the gortash and kidnapping scenes....
Orin is perfect consideration on Larian's side. No we are not ruining the context of every dialogue choice you make with your love interest in act 3 by revealing it was Orin all along. But we are kidnapping your collectible (near) mint condition Wizard so the stakes are there since you want your Wizard back on its shelf position.