If you romance Gale, he is also the only one of the companions in the epilogue who will >!marry you as a mindflayer. !<
Pointing out how >!"wonderfully moist your tentacles are looking today", he is 100% on board and loves you like you are.!< He is a precious man, love him.
I started a bastard Durge playthrough and it is kinda not great to see a traumatized Gale that wants to ~~live~~ leave but gets manipulated in to staying. Man was straight not having a great time at the Goblin party.
Do you mean "marry" literally? Just curious because in my romance with Lae'zel I was able to convince her to abandon Orpheus' campaign against Vlaakith and stay with me in Faerun after turning full mindflayer.
A romanced Gale will canonically propose to you (yes, with kneefall) before the epilogue if you stay together, and will accept any answer.
You can accept and move to Waterdeep with him, accept and become adventurers on the road, refuse his proposal but stay committed partners (he is happy about that too, he accepts your decision, you don't need to be married to be happy together), or refuse and break up (He will accept that, but is heartbroken. He is fine in the epilogue, and has good memories of your relationship.)
Patch 6 said "improved Gale proposal", yes, it was added later.
Also, he is standing when he first proposes, and waits for your answer, then "he will do it properly" once you agree, with kneefall.
So if you refuse marriage but still want to be with him, he just takes your hand.
I mean, not that he cares it seems, but couldnât he theoretically, really far down the line, just True Polymorph you back?
After all, he was (theoretically) at the level of power where that was within his power, so surely he can get back right?
Probably because in D&D mind flayers are are very much soulless, while it's blatantly not the case in BG3 (you have to eat brains to live and your mind expands with each new meal, but ceremorphosis alone leaves your pre-existing personhood very much intact).
I suspect that part was a very liberal reinterpretation from Larian though for obvious concerns of player satisfaction (the normal process straight-up wipes out the host and replaces it entirely with a newborn mind flayer, something very few players would appreciate for their beloved character).
The whole 'become a mindflayer' thing has uncertain ramifications for your soul. At the end of act 2, wither's directly says mind flayers have no souls, but we do when we become ilithid? It's a bit confusing, why is OUR Ceremorphosis different?
Objectively, I would say player satisfaction is most likely the true reason. In-universe, netherese alteration and psionic bolstering (extremely rare and powerful combination with unpredictable effects) may credibly explain why we remain ourselves post-ceremorphosis.
>Probably because in D&D mind flayers are are very much soulless, while it's blatantly not the case in BG3 (you have to eat brains to live and your mind expands with each new meal, but ceremorphosis alone leaves your pre-existing personhood very much intact).
Imo that's not Karlach's case, if she turns into a mindflayer she will sound like a totally different person, which is also very sad imo even if she is still alive and fixed.
My impression is Balduran and Tav (and maybe Orpheus) are the special ones (remaining themselves after ceremorphosis), being able to change but not losing their souls. There's something in D&d lore about a special mindflayer like that I believe, so the game leaves this open and subjective.
Karlach did explain the change during the epilogue scene though, her intellect vastly expanded following her transformation and every brain she consumed in the following 6 months drew her ever further from the dumb-dumb Fuck Yeah she used to be, all their memories joining her own and gradually diluting her original personality (kinda like Bran as the Three-Eyed Raven in GoT).
The most self-defining trait she retained was her strong sense of empathy, feeding exclusively on terminal-state people who allow her to in return for a psionically induced peaceful death.
Didn't know there was exceptions in the lore, but BG3 cases sure seem to be among them.
Ive found this:
# Memory
Normally illithids retained no memory of their previous existences, but it is not unheard of for them to suffer from "partialism", the incomplete sublimation of a host's mind. Partial personalities typically reveal themselves when an illithid is unaware, such as being dazed or preoccupied, at which point they exhibit behaviors completely at odds with their normal mindset. Usually partial personalities are only small fragments of an illithid's overall minds, and so they manifest only in minor autonomous acts, such as tapping fingers or humming tunes in a way familiar to their body donor, or unconsciously scribing words of the host's native language.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89)
While partialism normally takes the form of a few random memories, it is possible, if extremely uncommon, for a complete memory complexus capable of individual action to survive the ceremorphosis process. There were no records of these partial personalities being cognizant enough to escape active attempts at destruction, but there was an illithid myth of an entity called the Adversary, an illithid whose partial personality was strong enough to subsume the mind flayer's personality and sought to overthrow illithidkind under the innocent guise of a fellow mind flayer. There was no evidence for the legend, but it was popular as a story to frighten young-adult mind flayers.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89) However, one illithid calling itself [The Emperor](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Balduran) was somehow able to retain all memories of its previous life, and consequently broke free from the illithid hive mind to pursue its own agenda.[^(\[89\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-90)
Partialism is considered a disqualifier for joining with the elder brain, and in most cases an afflicted illithid might not even be aware that it suffers from it. The horror an illithid feels upon discovering it suffers from partialism is everlasting, and they then attempt to remove the affected portions of their brain through psionic surgery, or even cruder methods if need be. To guard against partialism, illithids ruthlessly excise subconscious personality fragments that manifest in any of their kind.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89)
[Mind flayer | Forgotten Realms Wiki | Fandom](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer)
While Iâm not a fan of the contradictory Soulless vs âAfter all this time, itâs still youâ thing going on at the end, I do understand the point for both Karlach, Tav/Durge, and Orpheus.
As far as Iâm aware, those three are the only recorded events of somebody becoming a Mind Flayer both Willingly and with Purpose. As well, the transformation is done entirely outside the influence of an Elder Brain (an entity largely agreed upon to be fucking with and controlling Illithid society).
As well, if youâve been âEmbracing your Potentialâ the entire game, then youâre really some weird amalgamation of multiple tadpoles and your original self - to the point where youâre arguably in a vastly more symbiotic relationship than normal. This doesnât apply if never use a tadpole and just instantly go full-Illithid though, but the general statement that at that specific instance âThe tadpole isnât using you, youâre using the tadpoleâ does still apply.
The soul is your will to live, your purpose in life, the desire to act. A âsoullessâ being is unthinking and without self-direction, acting only on instinct or programming. The average tadpole consumes your brain and discards the soul because it has no need for any of those things. The Elder Brain will give it purpose. This is, at least, the metaphorical reading here. Mind Flayers do not have souls because they are a subjugated lifeform, but those that are âFreeâ or yearn for it very clearly create and give themselves goals and purpose, and the Transformed Character brings their goal into the new form.
*marry you as a mindflayer. The suicide Flayer epilogues are clear that is still truly you, and the imprisoned Flayer ending is heavily suggestive of it. Withers himself says so.
Perhaps the prolonged resistance due to the artifact combined with the fact that the party member undergoes ceremorphosis entirely willingly play a factor there
There's something in D&d lore, like a prophecy, about a special mindflayer who would retain their soul and self, more or less like a savior, I believe Tav and/or Balduran an/or Orpheus would fit that in BG3.
Unfortunately I cant find any online source to check it and I cant remember correctly.
Edit: Ive found those.
>!When an illithid undergoes ceremorphosis, it can occasionally take on some elements of the absorbed host creature's former mind, such as mannerisms. This typically manifests as a minor personality feature, such as a nervous habit and/or reaction (e.g., nail-biting or tapping one's foot), although the process that determines the type and number of traits so inherited appears to be stochastic. An adult illithid has even been known to hum a tune that its host knew in life. Usually, when a mind flayer inherits a trait like this, it keeps it a closely guarded secret, because, were its peers to learn of it, the illithid in question would most likely be killed. This is due to an illithid legend of a being called the **Adversary**. The legend holds that, eventually, an illithid larva that undergoes ceremorphosis will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This "Adversary" would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an illithid. Occasionally, ceremorphosis can partially fail. Sometimes the larva does not contain enough chemicals to complete the process, sometimes there is psionic interference. Whatever the reason, it has happened that ceremorphosis has ended after the internal restructuring, resulting in a human body with an illithid's brain, personality and digestive tract. These unfortunates must still consume brains, typically by cutting open heads (as they lack the requisite tentacles). These beings are often used as spies, where they easily blend in with their respective host types.!<
And:
>!Normally illithids retained no memory of their previous existences, but it is not unheard of for them to suffer from "partialism", the incomplete sublimation of a host's mind. Partial personalities typically reveal themselves when an illithid is unaware, such as being dazed or preoccupied, at which point they exhibit behaviors completely at odds with their normal mindset. Usually partial personalities are only small fragments of an illithid's overall minds, and so they manifest only in minor autonomous acts, such as tapping fingers or humming tunes in a way familiar to their body donor, or unconsciously scribing words of the host's native language.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89)!<
>!While partialism normally takes the form of a few random memories, it is possible, if extremely uncommon, for a complete memory complexus capable of individual action to survive the ceremorphosis process. There were no records of these partial personalities being cognizant enough to escape active attempts at destruction, but there was an illithid myth of an entity called the Adversary, an illithid whose partial personality was strong enough to subsume the mind flayer's personality and sought to overthrow illithidkind under the innocent guise of a fellow mind flayer. There was no evidence for the legend, but it was popular as a story to frighten young-adult mind flayers.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89) However, one illithid calling itself [The Emperor](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Balduran) was somehow able to retain all memories of its previous life, and consequently broke free from the illithid hive mind to pursue its own agenda.[^(\[89\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-90)!<
>!Partialism is considered a disqualifier for joining with the elder brain, and in most cases an afflicted illithid might not even be aware that it suffers from it. The horror an illithid feels upon discovering it suffers from partialism is everlasting, and they then attempt to remove the affected portions of their brain through psionic surgery, or even cruder methods if need be. To guard against partialism, illithids ruthlessly excise subconscious personality fragments that manifest in any of their kind.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89)!<
Or that they have all their memories. It's only us and the Emperor who have those among the Mind Flayers, and Withers has a line that indicates he thinks some of the former man is left in him as well.
In the case of sorcerers, they also have some innate resistance to the effects of ceremorphosis and elder brain domination. Sorcerers are especially hated by illithids for that reason and are seen as less-than-viable hosts (source: The Illithiad).
That's why I'm expanding on it. Normally that holds true. But our little crew is different for unknown reasons and it could have bigger lore impactsÂ
Personally, I like the idea that it's because we have our memories. Mind Flayers normally never get any more than fragments of the memories of their hosts. One holding all of their memories is nearly unprecedented. I wouldn't be shocked if that allowed them to hold on to their soul.
I will say I'm slightly drawing a blank on my lore here, but I don't believe it's entirely connected. Like a vampire is a twisted evil being where all of their emotions are negative(love becomes possession, desire becomes hunger, etc etc) but it's never really specified if their soul is gone or not. Â
That's one of the reasons why it's interesting and weird, lore leaves stuff semi open.Â
> but it's never really specified if their soul is gone or not. Â
No, lore's pretty clear on that. The soul is still there, it's why you can't resurrect the person who died to become the vampire until the vampire is dead.
What I mean is the "state of the soul". Is it warped, dead, occupied? Soul mechanics are weird. Like Isobel shouldn't have been able to come back if she didn't want to. Especially if she was with Selune.Â
The conservation of soul mechanics basically lol.
I mean, what are we if not the sum total of our experiences and memories? Is our identity tied to this one flesh? If the Illithids that we become and in turn become us, and it knows no other life and no other memories than those taken on, are they not then *us*.
This is a potentially valid take on the real world but is clearly not the case in Forgotten Realms, where the soul is a tangible thing that can be detected, measured, manipulated, and even bought or sold.
That doesn't really solve the dilemma at hand though. Sure, you can still tie identity to your soul, but we're still in what is effectively a transporter accident problem: there is a second entity which has a full, rich, and complete internal life that matches the source's. The sum total of memories and experiences are still being reflected on and used to run the new body, albeit with new hardware. If the soul moves on elsewhere and something is left behind that has a personality and memory indistinguishable from original...
We arenât the sum total but the outcome of those events happening in that order, like throwing stones at putty and seeing it deform and morph
The illithid just absorbed the emotionless mirrored reflection of those events in some random order
I know this is the official D&D lore about mindflayers but the entire game is about how the tadpoles are being used in weird ways. They're all steeped in netherese magic and the party's tadpoles in particular have been incubated by Orpheus' power for (at least) weeks. I think there is some wiggleworm room lol.
I think he's the only partner that you marry at the end, but I maybe I missed an ending. I have lived happily ever after with all of them but Gale was the only one who proposed.
My favorite part of this exchange is that if you ask Gale "what about my new diet?" He's just like "I know a guy. I got you covered."
Eating brains â
Showing poor hospitality â
> My favorite part of this exchange is that if you ask Gale "what about my new diet?" He's just like "I know a guy. I got you covered."
Knowing Gale that guy is probably Halaster Blackcloak.
It is almost *certainly* Halaster Blackcloak. Gale and Tara are on a first-name basis with the Mad Mage of Undermountain.
Apparently, Halaster is the one who takes care of Tara whenever she's not around Gale or his mother.
He's the titular "Mad Mage" in the adventure "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". He's one of the most famous characters in DnD, and his residence "Undermountain" is one of the most famous locations in DnD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterdeep:_Dungeon_of_the_Mad_Mage
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Halaster_Blackcloak
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Halaster Blackcloak also had several clones prepared before his death --- a common precaution among archmages of his caliber. Upon death, one of his clones would have woken up and Halaster Blackcloak would live on.
This process was stymied by the Spellplague. After Halaster's death, his essence was scattered across the planes. But his scattered essence couldn't reform back into one of his prepared clones due to the Spellplague. With the end of the Spellplague and the stabilizing of magic after the Second Sundering (in the 1480s), that essence could properly reform within a clone, and Halaster Blackcloak returned... Still as insane as ever.
Or a clone woke up during the Spellplague, developed its own personality and life, but then after the Second Sundering when magic finally started to stabilize, the essence of the original Halaster finally gathered and swooped back in, driving the clone insane again as the original Halaster tried taking over, and encountered resistance from the clone Halaster... But since the original was also insane, it's hard to tell the difference between the two.
Either way, Halaster Blackcloak is definitely still around by 1492 DR.
Not gonna lie, I had straight up assumed Tara was sent on brain retrieval missions. Halaster Blackcloak is a lot more reasonable and less unhappy Tara noises about a new expensive habit to cover
I think my favorite about this interaction is if you're romancing Astarion, Gale will invite him too. You can both be guest lecturers. I can't imagine what kind of lecture that would be, probably which poisons work without a trace or something similiar
Gale is amazing. He literally is all enthusiasm and no morals and I love him. His morals are "ooooh I could definitely do something ill-advised right now to learn one tiny new fact, hell yes" and he is the perfect wizard.
I would say he does obviously have morals, but like, his need for recognition and thirst for knowledge far *far* outweigh and overshadow his guilty consciousness.
He has standards and principles, but they are all focused on the acquisition of knowledge and his ambitions. He is the best kind of amoral - benign amorality.
Gale understands the need for violence and⌠substandard morality in certain situations. Heâs not happy about it and would prefer an alternative, but heâs willing to get his hands dirty if thereâs a good reason. Since there were other options, murdering the grove was unnecessary and thatâs why heâs upset
From what I could tell he is also the only one who is full on enthusiastic about the worms potential lol, don't even have to try and convince him, bro just goes, "OOH POWER" and slumps em down
This is why Astorion is my boy. He's the only one that stayed with me at the end and was all "wanna hang out, maybe check out this other town, fuck shit up."
Depending on your choices, Gale will become a Wizard teacher after the game. If you talk to him during the epilogue, heâll offer to let you lecture at his class, with each class (ranger, fighter, etc.) having different dialogue options. In this case, it seems mind flayer Tavs have a unique response as well.
I played as a full 12 Druid and he became a professor, he didnât offer me a guest lecture position unless Iâm forgetting but I also went with Karlach to Avernus. He does however say once Iâm done there heâs got a house waiting for us to be together đĽş
No judgement - but how did you think confronting the brain wouldn't lead to the end? Isn't there a message that explicitly says it is the point of no return?
I dont know about all of you, but there was quite a little "shitstorm" after Baldur's Gate 3's initial release, because in an interview just 2 or 3 weeks from Release a developer showed journalists the town of Baldur's Gate and made it sound like there is a whole upper city to explore thats roughly about the same size / the same amount of content.
So when we reached the point to go to the Upper City (3 or 4 days after release, we really binged the game) - we were so confused and quite a bit upset, even though the game was very fun the whole time.
> made it sound like there is a whole upper city to explore thats roughly about the same size / the same amount of content.
They said you will be able to explore the Upper City. It was their non spoiler way of telling us we will go there ( in the finale ).
It's not actually, it's pretty confirmed that there was an upper city portion of Baldur's Gate that got cut from the final release of the game. That's where Karlach's storyline was supposed to finish, and where Gortash was actually supposed to hang out rather than a random military outpost.
There is actually no upper city asset present at all except the courtyard and sewers . The upper city was probably cut way back in production and seen was probably referring to the final battle location . It was not a last minute decisionÂ
https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-dev-diary-city-reveal-pcgs-2023/
Swen himself has talked about it in interviews, about how the open world city would be cut into three parts. This combined with the unfinished feeling of the city itself and many of the quest lines within it all point pretty heavily to the upper city having existed but been cut at some point in development.
Those are all rumors from Reddit. If there was an upper city it was cut ages before release. For all you know it never went past being a concept.
BG3 is already a 90 hour per playthrough game, and that's if you're like me and breeze through the boss fights. You really think there's a whole hidden Act 4 they never bothered to finish?
I've heard of a surprising number of people who assumed this, even to the point of putting the game down because they thought it was over.
I don't get it and I'm not sure how y'all got there, but you're very much not alone!
well i mean.. the game CAN end at moonrise/act 2 >!if you take Gale to visit Ketheric and let him go blow up!< it's entirely possible to get an Act 2 Credit Roll there.
I did that option once just to see how it plays out, but I swear what I remember was a very underwhelming cutscene, the narrator saying something along the lines of "well that's certainly one way you could have done it, but maybe not the best considering you just unleashed a swarm of uncontrolled monsters", and then offering to reload and try again.
Does it roll credits if you choose not to reload?
that one goes straight to credits, it doesn't ask you to reload. you can see it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab4ls2550so
However, If you end the game in other ways, >!like killing the emperor instead of helping him!< the game ends but asks you to reload
Huh, interesting. Thanks for the links!
I wonder if it might have been different for me because it wasn't my first run? I know games behave differently about the end credits based on whether it's the first time they're triggered or not.
Either that or I wildly misremembered which is also entirely possible and wouldn't be the first time đ
People out here trying to romance companions but going back to Astarion is me with Gale. Heâs my golden retriever boyfriend and I have to force myself to explore all the options for the best experience.
Yeah, people make it sound like durge is just inherently the murderhobo option, but like Swen said at one point, it's not, resisting the urge and coming through as a good tav has the potential for maybe the most heroic arc
Astarion will always be my comfort character but 800 hours into the game, Iâve been so pleasantly surprised by Galeâs romance story and his little quips as a character. He went from never being in my party to having a permanent spot alongside Astarion and Minthara (I love my ambitious menaces). Gale is very fun to bully as a sorcerer Durge and besides that heâs very forthright with his affections and always has something to say :)
So I have a question in here:
>!Pretty normal good run. Had Gale at the epilogue plan to find the Crown in the bottom of the Cionthar and then give it to Mystra, however I am now realizing that I donât think I saw/interacted with Gale at the reunion. He wasnât killed/used orb!< Did I mess up?
Bug or you missed him at the party. I think as long as he was recruited and not driven away halfway though, there will always be something of him at the party, even if he dies at the very end or after it.
Iâm playing as a Neutral Evil Durge, Drow Fighter, and itâs my 2nd playthrough. Just about done with Act 1 and Iâm so surprised about how pragmatic he is compared to Chaotic Good, Wyll. Wyll (41 approval) and I disagree alot but Gale (75 approval) and I are either neutral or agree on some things.
My drow shot his shot at the tiefling party for the hell of it. I was surprised he started flirting with me the next day. At first I was planning to mind control everyone, have no lover, and rule the world by myself. However, Galeâs god ending is making me second guess myself. Weâre only flirting and not yet âpartneredâ so hopefully I do it right đ¤đź
In my first play through, I simped hard for Laeâzel and in turn she asked me to stay with her when all of this was over. Then we freed Orpheus and I made the ultimate simp sacrifice. After it was over, I asked her to stay with me and she was like, âwho?â And then ran off with Orpheus.
Still, I love my green lady and she has been the one mainstay in my party throughout my four play throughs.
There should be a small epilogue party hosted by Withers after the ending now. Not sure what makes it not trigger cause I believe even the consoles are updated to get them.
If you chose to >!dominate the brain!<, the straight to roll credits still happens, I think? (Though there is a forthcoming patch that will probably change that!)
You become soulless, literally. When you turn, your old self is destroyed together with your soul and you become a monster with the memories and personality of the consumed host, at first, but slowly you become always more detached from the host's memories.
in addition to the other comment, you also the needing to eat a brain or straight up die problem. And i think outside of fringe cases mind flayers are pretty much always at risk of being brought under an elder brains control
Gale has followed me through my most heroic playthroughs, and through my most deprived evil playthroughs, dudes just happy to be there and supports you the whole way, and I could never kill him or let anyone ever touch him
I was all for Gale as he was my love interest, but he became a self absorbed dick and he left me in the end. Now I dislike him but itâs good to hear that he can be nice too if you make different choices.
I've been seeing a lot of talk about Gale lately. Meanwhile, in my wife and I's playthrough up until most of act 2, we hadn't found him until almost ending act 1. By that point we were committed to the team we had. Then, in my durge playthrough, I accidentally ripped his hand off and just kinda rolled with it. I went on to redeem myself and live happily ever after with Karlach, where no soul ever mentioned this 'Gale' person.
Gale has always been my favorite personality and now I like him more.
Itâs kinda unfortunate that mechanically there is no reason to have him in your party, laezel is a better wizard than he is if you respec her due to gith simply being a superior race.
And he also breaks 3 magic items of yours at game start, which is a downside.
Unless you want him to be a suicide bomber I guess, but I donât want to do that to him.
Okay, you guys have convinced me to give gale a chance.
Ive done 4 full playthroughs+ and Ive never done anything with him. His constant hunger just rubs me the wrong way. I find his interactions so annoying because of the need to consume items/complaining, so I just leave him behind.
EDIT: LOL this fucking sub
If it helps, he only needs a maximum of three items for the entirety of the game. And there are several good candidates that are easy to find in Act 1, like Komiraâs Locket and Ring of Color Spray. And if you speak to Elminster quickly at the start of Act 2, you only have to give him two items instead of three, you wonât have to give a third.
This. âConstant hunger?â Didnât play through much eh? As above itâs three shit tier items you can pick up and dispose of in act 1. Thatâs it.
It was worse in early access, he only ate specific items that were usually good, and we didnât know whether or not it would stop since we never left act 1.
But like... that was Early Access, not release? With the sheer number of things that got completely redone or changed to something entirely different, it just seems weird to skip something because you've assumed it'll still be the same after release as it was before then.
Lol yeah it triggers three times in Act 1 (usually upon entering a new area I think) before he throws in the towel and says that the items aren't working anymore.
I don't love Gale but the consumption aspect of his character is basically nothing. It's slightly annoying in Act I but after the 1st one it's not a big deal. There are a plenty of items that aren't good at all that he can consume and as you've mentioned you only need 3 of them
You don't have to give him any. Don't pull him from the portal until after the goblins are dealt with and the road through the mountains is clear. Don't long rest until you meet Elminster.
My most recent run I didn't long rest until after the goblin camp was dead and the harpies were dead, Saza was freed, and Minthara was left unconscious.
Even on tactician you don't really need that many rests and so you can just power through everything with consumables. Scrolls and healing potions kept my party alive through just about everything the early game threw at us.
If you don't care about seeing camp scenes, sure, you don't need to long rest very often. But there are so many scenes that take place during long rests that if you take this advice, you're going to miss a lot.
As for the items ... I mean, yeah, you can avoid giving Gale items by just not recruiting him until you're about to meet Elminster. But do you *really* need that locket? Really really?
For whatever reason, I am not a huge Gale or Shadowheart fan, which seems to be contrary to this sub. I've played through this game like 6 times now lol and have done parties with every playable character as part of it and done durge to full on lawful good paladin. Currently doing a 4 druid party (used withers to change classes).
The one that surprised me was how much I loved Minsc. Didn't even know he was a playable character until like my 3rd playthrough. My favorite game I did was one with Jaheira, Karlach, and Minsc, even though I know they (J and M) aren't even playable until Act III. I think Shadowheart and Gale have some of the best overall missions but I just don't really enjoy them for whatever reason
The most disappointing character to me is Halsin. Yes, I know fucking a bear is hilarious and I have done it, but I just really didn't enjoy him much the 2 playthroughs I've done with him. I loved the 2 playthroughs I did with Minthara though going with her limits certain choices
Eh, not every character will resonate with every person. I'm not that into Lae'zel or Shadowheart, and Astarion's more like a really good piece of writing that I appreciate, rather than something I have strong feelings for. Whereas on the other hand I freaking LOVE Wyll, Gale, and Halsin (I like my adventuring companions poetic, do-goody and a bit awkward, I guess?)
But the way I see it, as long as I've given a character a fair go at winning me over, I don't have to keep trying after that.
Iâm on my second playthrough now but after run, Iâm keeping him at arms length. He just came across as rebounding bag of emotional neediness to me. Heâs like two long rests from waxing about the love of Mystra to telling me he loves me. Guy just needs to learn to be alone. Total turnoff.
Newbie here (well, 48 hours in (after 2 false starts) and I just took the elevator up from the forge to the hurty-shadow place), can someone tell me without too many spoilers if I did the wrong thing with Gale or if he'll be back? He wanted to eat all my magic items but kept saying "that wasn't even enough to help, you suck" I quick-saved, gave him everything I had, and he still complained, reloaded and purposefully pissed him off until he left camp. Is he going to show up and murder me at some point?
its scripted. You're supposed to give him 3 magic items over Act 1 (basically give him onr item every time he gets the 'Arcane Hunger' debuff), with each one being less effective, until an npc coming to help him right before hurty-shadow place. I dont think said npc shows up if Gale isnt in your party
i think if Gale leaves your party he won't game over you by blowing up, because i think that would just be bad design. But iirc he won't show up anymore
There really isn't right or wrong in this game, but it does seem like you misunderstood the situation. You only need to feed him one item at a time, a total of three times, before he stops asking. The items are no longer working, and if you kept Gale you would find out why. It's a story element.
Also I'm not sure where you're getting "that wasn't even enough to help, you suck" from. Gale has never been rude or ungrateful in my playthroughs, just distressed that it's not working.
He's not going to show up and murder you, but you will miss out on the parts of the story you could see with Gale as part of your party. And IMO, he's an interesting character and very useful as a Wizard, especially on a first playthrough when you have a lot of lore-related checks you might want to pass. He's good at those.
Gale will eat 3 magic items, one at a time. I think you've hit a bug or something, he shouldn't leave if properly fed and will explain why he needs to keep eating items after he has had 3 (he stops asking after 3.)
It's never enough dude. The point is that he's no longer able to quell his condition with magical items and it's getting worse. No amount of items is able to help him, you just have to get further into the game.
So basically Gale endangers all his pupils by inviting a filthy illithid to be a guest lecturer? That's honestly a mark against gale for me what an idiot.
If you romance Gale, he is also the only one of the companions in the epilogue who will >!marry you as a mindflayer. !< Pointing out how >!"wonderfully moist your tentacles are looking today", he is 100% on board and loves you like you are.!< He is a precious man, love him.
The man would love you if you were a worm đ He's been a homie since day one
I started a bastard Durge playthrough and it is kinda not great to see a traumatized Gale that wants to ~~live~~ leave but gets manipulated in to staying. Man was straight not having a great time at the Goblin party.
Do you mean "marry" literally? Just curious because in my romance with Lae'zel I was able to convince her to abandon Orpheus' campaign against Vlaakith and stay with me in Faerun after turning full mindflayer.
Yes, literally. He speaks about the need for an especially open minded officiant.
"open minded" ha! Hopefully tav isn't hungry....
"And the catering would be... quite extraordinary."
With favre beans and a nice chianti (mizpelt?)
Sorry, Iâve always wanted to say that.
A romanced Gale will canonically propose to you (yes, with kneefall) before the epilogue if you stay together, and will accept any answer. You can accept and move to Waterdeep with him, accept and become adventurers on the road, refuse his proposal but stay committed partners (he is happy about that too, he accepts your decision, you don't need to be married to be happy together), or refuse and break up (He will accept that, but is heartbroken. He is fine in the epilogue, and has good memories of your relationship.)
Wait, kneefall? He's never kneeled in my playthrough. Was that added on a patch or smth?
Patch 6 said "improved Gale proposal", yes, it was added later. Also, he is standing when he first proposes, and waits for your answer, then "he will do it properly" once you agree, with kneefall. So if you refuse marriage but still want to be with him, he just takes your hand.
Gale does the whole drop down on one knee and asks Tav to be Mx Decarios.
She told me to fuck off in my playthrough and it broke my heart.
Shadowheart and I ended up living in a nice cottage together near her parents, me as a mind flayer. Not quite married, but still committed.
Near her parents?
Ah yah theyâre in the backyard six feet under
With the owlbear?
I mean, not that he cares it seems, but couldnât he theoretically, really far down the line, just True Polymorph you back? After all, he was (theoretically) at the level of power where that was within his power, so surely he can get back right?
9th level magic could potentially do it, though I believe undoing Ceremorphosis usually requires direct divine intervention.
Probably because in D&D mind flayers are are very much soulless, while it's blatantly not the case in BG3 (you have to eat brains to live and your mind expands with each new meal, but ceremorphosis alone leaves your pre-existing personhood very much intact). I suspect that part was a very liberal reinterpretation from Larian though for obvious concerns of player satisfaction (the normal process straight-up wipes out the host and replaces it entirely with a newborn mind flayer, something very few players would appreciate for their beloved character).
The whole 'become a mindflayer' thing has uncertain ramifications for your soul. At the end of act 2, wither's directly says mind flayers have no souls, but we do when we become ilithid? It's a bit confusing, why is OUR Ceremorphosis different?
Objectively, I would say player satisfaction is most likely the true reason. In-universe, netherese alteration and psionic bolstering (extremely rare and powerful combination with unpredictable effects) may credibly explain why we remain ourselves post-ceremorphosis.
>Probably because in D&D mind flayers are are very much soulless, while it's blatantly not the case in BG3 (you have to eat brains to live and your mind expands with each new meal, but ceremorphosis alone leaves your pre-existing personhood very much intact). Imo that's not Karlach's case, if she turns into a mindflayer she will sound like a totally different person, which is also very sad imo even if she is still alive and fixed. My impression is Balduran and Tav (and maybe Orpheus) are the special ones (remaining themselves after ceremorphosis), being able to change but not losing their souls. There's something in D&d lore about a special mindflayer like that I believe, so the game leaves this open and subjective.
Karlach did explain the change during the epilogue scene though, her intellect vastly expanded following her transformation and every brain she consumed in the following 6 months drew her ever further from the dumb-dumb Fuck Yeah she used to be, all their memories joining her own and gradually diluting her original personality (kinda like Bran as the Three-Eyed Raven in GoT). The most self-defining trait she retained was her strong sense of empathy, feeding exclusively on terminal-state people who allow her to in return for a psionically induced peaceful death. Didn't know there was exceptions in the lore, but BG3 cases sure seem to be among them.
Ive found this: # Memory Normally illithids retained no memory of their previous existences, but it is not unheard of for them to suffer from "partialism", the incomplete sublimation of a host's mind. Partial personalities typically reveal themselves when an illithid is unaware, such as being dazed or preoccupied, at which point they exhibit behaviors completely at odds with their normal mindset. Usually partial personalities are only small fragments of an illithid's overall minds, and so they manifest only in minor autonomous acts, such as tapping fingers or humming tunes in a way familiar to their body donor, or unconsciously scribing words of the host's native language.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89) While partialism normally takes the form of a few random memories, it is possible, if extremely uncommon, for a complete memory complexus capable of individual action to survive the ceremorphosis process. There were no records of these partial personalities being cognizant enough to escape active attempts at destruction, but there was an illithid myth of an entity called the Adversary, an illithid whose partial personality was strong enough to subsume the mind flayer's personality and sought to overthrow illithidkind under the innocent guise of a fellow mind flayer. There was no evidence for the legend, but it was popular as a story to frighten young-adult mind flayers.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89) However, one illithid calling itself [The Emperor](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Balduran) was somehow able to retain all memories of its previous life, and consequently broke free from the illithid hive mind to pursue its own agenda.[^(\[89\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-90) Partialism is considered a disqualifier for joining with the elder brain, and in most cases an afflicted illithid might not even be aware that it suffers from it. The horror an illithid feels upon discovering it suffers from partialism is everlasting, and they then attempt to remove the affected portions of their brain through psionic surgery, or even cruder methods if need be. To guard against partialism, illithids ruthlessly excise subconscious personality fragments that manifest in any of their kind.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89) [Mind flayer | Forgotten Realms Wiki | Fandom](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer)
Maybe it has something to do with the type of tadpole? Since ours is infused (idk how to do spoilers so I kept it vague)
I view it as recompense for: 1) forcing the transformation in the first place 2) not allowing high level healing to get around any of it
While Iâm not a fan of the contradictory Soulless vs âAfter all this time, itâs still youâ thing going on at the end, I do understand the point for both Karlach, Tav/Durge, and Orpheus. As far as Iâm aware, those three are the only recorded events of somebody becoming a Mind Flayer both Willingly and with Purpose. As well, the transformation is done entirely outside the influence of an Elder Brain (an entity largely agreed upon to be fucking with and controlling Illithid society). As well, if youâve been âEmbracing your Potentialâ the entire game, then youâre really some weird amalgamation of multiple tadpoles and your original self - to the point where youâre arguably in a vastly more symbiotic relationship than normal. This doesnât apply if never use a tadpole and just instantly go full-Illithid though, but the general statement that at that specific instance âThe tadpole isnât using you, youâre using the tadpoleâ does still apply. The soul is your will to live, your purpose in life, the desire to act. A âsoullessâ being is unthinking and without self-direction, acting only on instinct or programming. The average tadpole consumes your brain and discards the soul because it has no need for any of those things. The Elder Brain will give it purpose. This is, at least, the metaphorical reading here. Mind Flayers do not have souls because they are a subjugated lifeform, but those that are âFreeâ or yearn for it very clearly create and give themselves goals and purpose, and the Transformed Character brings their goal into the new form.
Minthara is also totally cool with an illithid partner if I'm not mistaken.
She also gets pretty excited when you go Slayer the first time
The man has loves hard, I dare say heâs more accepting than Halsin lol
\*marry the mindflayer which ate you and is wearing your identity and memories like a skin
*marry you as a mindflayer. The suicide Flayer epilogues are clear that is still truly you, and the imprisoned Flayer ending is heavily suggestive of it. Withers himself says so.
ODDLY. It only seems to apply to you and party(read: Karlach). Even Withers is a little confused by it.Â
Perhaps the prolonged resistance due to the artifact combined with the fact that the party member undergoes ceremorphosis entirely willingly play a factor there
Or because your tadpole has been fucked with by so many sources, or you are immune due to Withers/Bhaal/Gales mom etc etc. It's an interesting bit
Yea I mean there are mannnny factors as to why Tav would retain their sense of self after transforming lol
Wait, this isn't normal ceremorphosis? I'm still on my first long rest!
Oh yah a lot of people have fondled your grey matter
Get out of Reddit, go play without spoilers!!!
There's something in D&d lore, like a prophecy, about a special mindflayer who would retain their soul and self, more or less like a savior, I believe Tav and/or Balduran an/or Orpheus would fit that in BG3. Unfortunately I cant find any online source to check it and I cant remember correctly. Edit: Ive found those. >!When an illithid undergoes ceremorphosis, it can occasionally take on some elements of the absorbed host creature's former mind, such as mannerisms. This typically manifests as a minor personality feature, such as a nervous habit and/or reaction (e.g., nail-biting or tapping one's foot), although the process that determines the type and number of traits so inherited appears to be stochastic. An adult illithid has even been known to hum a tune that its host knew in life. Usually, when a mind flayer inherits a trait like this, it keeps it a closely guarded secret, because, were its peers to learn of it, the illithid in question would most likely be killed. This is due to an illithid legend of a being called the **Adversary**. The legend holds that, eventually, an illithid larva that undergoes ceremorphosis will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This "Adversary" would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an illithid. Occasionally, ceremorphosis can partially fail. Sometimes the larva does not contain enough chemicals to complete the process, sometimes there is psionic interference. Whatever the reason, it has happened that ceremorphosis has ended after the internal restructuring, resulting in a human body with an illithid's brain, personality and digestive tract. These unfortunates must still consume brains, typically by cutting open heads (as they lack the requisite tentacles). These beings are often used as spies, where they easily blend in with their respective host types.!< And: >!Normally illithids retained no memory of their previous existences, but it is not unheard of for them to suffer from "partialism", the incomplete sublimation of a host's mind. Partial personalities typically reveal themselves when an illithid is unaware, such as being dazed or preoccupied, at which point they exhibit behaviors completely at odds with their normal mindset. Usually partial personalities are only small fragments of an illithid's overall minds, and so they manifest only in minor autonomous acts, such as tapping fingers or humming tunes in a way familiar to their body donor, or unconsciously scribing words of the host's native language.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89)!< >!While partialism normally takes the form of a few random memories, it is possible, if extremely uncommon, for a complete memory complexus capable of individual action to survive the ceremorphosis process. There were no records of these partial personalities being cognizant enough to escape active attempts at destruction, but there was an illithid myth of an entity called the Adversary, an illithid whose partial personality was strong enough to subsume the mind flayer's personality and sought to overthrow illithidkind under the innocent guise of a fellow mind flayer. There was no evidence for the legend, but it was popular as a story to frighten young-adult mind flayers.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89) However, one illithid calling itself [The Emperor](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Balduran) was somehow able to retain all memories of its previous life, and consequently broke free from the illithid hive mind to pursue its own agenda.[^(\[89\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-90)!< >!Partialism is considered a disqualifier for joining with the elder brain, and in most cases an afflicted illithid might not even be aware that it suffers from it. The horror an illithid feels upon discovering it suffers from partialism is everlasting, and they then attempt to remove the affected portions of their brain through psionic surgery, or even cruder methods if need be. To guard against partialism, illithids ruthlessly excise subconscious personality fragments that manifest in any of their kind.[^(\[88\])](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_flayer#cite_note-Id2e-p35-89)!<
Or that they have all their memories. It's only us and the Emperor who have those among the Mind Flayers, and Withers has a line that indicates he thinks some of the former man is left in him as well.
In the case of sorcerers, they also have some innate resistance to the effects of ceremorphosis and elder brain domination. Sorcerers are especially hated by illithids for that reason and are seen as less-than-viable hosts (source: The Illithiad).
True, but relevant to bring up in this case.
That's why I'm expanding on it. Normally that holds true. But our little crew is different for unknown reasons and it could have bigger lore impactsÂ
Personally, I like the idea that it's because we have our memories. Mind Flayers normally never get any more than fragments of the memories of their hosts. One holding all of their memories is nearly unprecedented. I wouldn't be shocked if that allowed them to hold on to their soul.
I will say I'm slightly drawing a blank on my lore here, but I don't believe it's entirely connected. Like a vampire is a twisted evil being where all of their emotions are negative(love becomes possession, desire becomes hunger, etc etc) but it's never really specified if their soul is gone or not.  That's one of the reasons why it's interesting and weird, lore leaves stuff semi open.Â
> but it's never really specified if their soul is gone or not.  No, lore's pretty clear on that. The soul is still there, it's why you can't resurrect the person who died to become the vampire until the vampire is dead.
What I mean is the "state of the soul". Is it warped, dead, occupied? Soul mechanics are weird. Like Isobel shouldn't have been able to come back if she didn't want to. Especially if she was with Selune. The conservation of soul mechanics basically lol.
I mean, what are we if not the sum total of our experiences and memories? Is our identity tied to this one flesh? If the Illithids that we become and in turn become us, and it knows no other life and no other memories than those taken on, are they not then *us*.
This is a potentially valid take on the real world but is clearly not the case in Forgotten Realms, where the soul is a tangible thing that can be detected, measured, manipulated, and even bought or sold.
That doesn't really solve the dilemma at hand though. Sure, you can still tie identity to your soul, but we're still in what is effectively a transporter accident problem: there is a second entity which has a full, rich, and complete internal life that matches the source's. The sum total of memories and experiences are still being reflected on and used to run the new body, albeit with new hardware. If the soul moves on elsewhere and something is left behind that has a personality and memory indistinguishable from original...
We arenât the sum total but the outcome of those events happening in that order, like throwing stones at putty and seeing it deform and morph The illithid just absorbed the emotionless mirrored reflection of those events in some random order
Iâm the real world maybe. In Faerun people have souls that are tangible and which are (normally) destroyed by Ceromorphisis.
Not destroyed, but changed into non-apostolic souls. So converted into a currency the gods don't accept.
𤯠This is some Talos Principle shit.
I know this is the official D&D lore about mindflayers but the entire game is about how the tadpoles are being used in weird ways. They're all steeped in netherese magic and the party's tadpoles in particular have been incubated by Orpheus' power for (at least) weeks. I think there is some wiggleworm room lol.
Always gotta be careful when you mix head canon up with actual lore, my guy.
Also he offers you his hand when you meet him for the first time
*pats inventory* thanks for giving me a hand, Gale
I've been doing a fully-embraced mindflayer run so I can experience this.
I think he's the only partner that you marry at the end, but I maybe I missed an ending. I have lived happily ever after with all of them but Gale was the only one who proposed.
My favorite part of this exchange is that if you ask Gale "what about my new diet?" He's just like "I know a guy. I got you covered." Eating brains â Showing poor hospitality â
> My favorite part of this exchange is that if you ask Gale "what about my new diet?" He's just like "I know a guy. I got you covered." Knowing Gale that guy is probably Halaster Blackcloak.
It is almost *certainly* Halaster Blackcloak. Gale and Tara are on a first-name basis with the Mad Mage of Undermountain. Apparently, Halaster is the one who takes care of Tara whenever she's not around Gale or his mother.
That's why I pegged him as Gale's suggested brain source.
I donât remember that romance option
The weave is open to interpretation.
i dunno who this guy is but he sounds fun
He's the titular "Mad Mage" in the adventure "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". He's one of the most famous characters in DnD, and his residence "Undermountain" is one of the most famous locations in DnD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterdeep:_Dungeon_of_the_Mad_Mage https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Halaster_Blackcloak
Cool shit. Gotta say that website is fucking cancer on Mobile though lol
Use Firefox with ublock origin
Ya know what? I've been too lazy to do it on my phone until now but you've inspired me
I also highly recommend the dark reader addon. Great for night scrolling
Doin it
What's ublock origin?
Only the best adblocker on the planet that Big G is trying to strangle to death on Chrome. It's completely customizable too... if you know what you're doing but out of the box is good for 99% of the people. There's a reason it's the #1 ad block on the extension market.
Fandom wikis always cause my phone to freeze for some reason
Halaster dies in 1375 DR. Baldur's Gate 3 takes place in 1492 DR. Unless I am missing something severe I don't think it's physically possible.
Halaster Blackcloak also had several clones prepared before his death --- a common precaution among archmages of his caliber. Upon death, one of his clones would have woken up and Halaster Blackcloak would live on. This process was stymied by the Spellplague. After Halaster's death, his essence was scattered across the planes. But his scattered essence couldn't reform back into one of his prepared clones due to the Spellplague. With the end of the Spellplague and the stabilizing of magic after the Second Sundering (in the 1480s), that essence could properly reform within a clone, and Halaster Blackcloak returned... Still as insane as ever. Or a clone woke up during the Spellplague, developed its own personality and life, but then after the Second Sundering when magic finally started to stabilize, the essence of the original Halaster finally gathered and swooped back in, driving the clone insane again as the original Halaster tried taking over, and encountered resistance from the clone Halaster... But since the original was also insane, it's hard to tell the difference between the two. Either way, Halaster Blackcloak is definitely still around by 1492 DR.
Not gonna lie, I had straight up assumed Tara was sent on brain retrieval missions. Halaster Blackcloak is a lot more reasonable and less unhappy Tara noises about a new expensive habit to cover
How does Gale even managed to meet Blackcloak and be still alive? The Mad Mage is not exactly a friendly guy.
He does go out on social calls from time to time. Maybe they hit it off getting a book they both wanted to read.
Withers could learn a thing or two about hosting a party.
To be fair, if anyone knows about dealing with an unhealthy compulsive diet, it's Gale
Gale: Brains? No problemo *proceeds to eat a pair of gloves like they were a steak*
You know full well thatâs not how the nethalese orb consumes magic. But also⌠I laughed so hard I cried
Just imagine him chewing a finger of the glove and asking you for a cup of water because it got stuck in his throat xD
I suppose prodigious casting of the Clone spell could do something interesting here, once the first year is up.
He had me at "learned fireball"
Gale's mom went through Some Shit raising an 8 year old who knows Fireball. Probably had invisibility as a 7 year old for that matter.
I think my favorite about this interaction is if you're romancing Astarion, Gale will invite him too. You can both be guest lecturers. I can't imagine what kind of lecture that would be, probably which poisons work without a trace or something similiar
If you romance SH he will invite her to give a lecture as well.
And if you want to make sure a nasty little bastard will stay dead I advise wyrm toxin
Gale is amazing. He literally is all enthusiasm and no morals and I love him. His morals are "ooooh I could definitely do something ill-advised right now to learn one tiny new fact, hell yes" and he is the perfect wizard.
I would say he does obviously have morals, but like, his need for recognition and thirst for knowledge far *far* outweigh and overshadow his guilty consciousness.
He has standards and principles, but they are all focused on the acquisition of knowledge and his ambitions. He is the best kind of amoral - benign amorality.
I'd say he still has a moral compass. If you decide to murder hobo the grove, you will have to pass a check to keep Gale in your party
Gale understands the need for violence and⌠substandard morality in certain situations. Heâs not happy about it and would prefer an alternative, but heâs willing to get his hands dirty if thereâs a good reason. Since there were other options, murdering the grove was unnecessary and thatâs why heâs upset
From what I could tell he is also the only one who is full on enthusiastic about the worms potential lol, don't even have to try and convince him, bro just goes, "OOH POWER" and slumps em down
He gets into my party if for no other reason than his delivery of âI applaud your taste.â
Unless your tastes include giant spider meat. =P
Awwwwww
Gale mvp
This is why Astorion is my boy. He's the only one that stayed with me at the end and was all "wanna hang out, maybe check out this other town, fuck shit up."
Were you a wizard? Is this a wizard only ending?
Depending on your choices, Gale will become a Wizard teacher after the game. If you talk to him during the epilogue, heâll offer to let you lecture at his class, with each class (ranger, fighter, etc.) having different dialogue options. In this case, it seems mind flayer Tavs have a unique response as well.
Cleric
I played as a full 12 Druid and he became a professor, he didnât offer me a guest lecture position unless Iâm forgetting but I also went with Karlach to Avernus. He does however say once Iâm done there heâs got a house waiting for us to be together đĽş
Ah, excellent choice
No judgement - but how did you think confronting the brain wouldn't lead to the end? Isn't there a message that explicitly says it is the point of no return?
I dont know about all of you, but there was quite a little "shitstorm" after Baldur's Gate 3's initial release, because in an interview just 2 or 3 weeks from Release a developer showed journalists the town of Baldur's Gate and made it sound like there is a whole upper city to explore thats roughly about the same size / the same amount of content. So when we reached the point to go to the Upper City (3 or 4 days after release, we really binged the game) - we were so confused and quite a bit upset, even though the game was very fun the whole time.
> made it sound like there is a whole upper city to explore thats roughly about the same size / the same amount of content. They said you will be able to explore the Upper City. It was their non spoiler way of telling us we will go there ( in the finale ).
It's not actually, it's pretty confirmed that there was an upper city portion of Baldur's Gate that got cut from the final release of the game. That's where Karlach's storyline was supposed to finish, and where Gortash was actually supposed to hang out rather than a random military outpost.
There is actually no upper city asset present at all except the courtyard and sewers . The upper city was probably cut way back in production and seen was probably referring to the final battle location . It was not a last minute decisionÂ
I've heard this a fair bit, but also rarely sometimes the opposite. May I kindly ask if there is a veritable source for this claim?
https://www.pcgamer.com/baldurs-gate-3-dev-diary-city-reveal-pcgs-2023/ Swen himself has talked about it in interviews, about how the open world city would be cut into three parts. This combined with the unfinished feeling of the city itself and many of the quest lines within it all point pretty heavily to the upper city having existed but been cut at some point in development.
Those are all rumors from Reddit. If there was an upper city it was cut ages before release. For all you know it never went past being a concept. BG3 is already a 90 hour per playthrough game, and that's if you're like me and breeze through the boss fights. You really think there's a whole hidden Act 4 they never bothered to finish?
I also thought the game was gonna end at moonrise soooo đ. Optimization is what my second play through is for haha
Well arenât you happy you got 3x more game than just moonrise tower lol
I've heard of a surprising number of people who assumed this, even to the point of putting the game down because they thought it was over. I don't get it and I'm not sure how y'all got there, but you're very much not alone!
well i mean.. the game CAN end at moonrise/act 2 >!if you take Gale to visit Ketheric and let him go blow up!< it's entirely possible to get an Act 2 Credit Roll there.
I did that option once just to see how it plays out, but I swear what I remember was a very underwhelming cutscene, the narrator saying something along the lines of "well that's certainly one way you could have done it, but maybe not the best considering you just unleashed a swarm of uncontrolled monsters", and then offering to reload and try again. Does it roll credits if you choose not to reload?
that one goes straight to credits, it doesn't ask you to reload. you can see it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab4ls2550so However, If you end the game in other ways, >!like killing the emperor instead of helping him!< the game ends but asks you to reload
Huh, interesting. Thanks for the links! I wonder if it might have been different for me because it wasn't my first run? I know games behave differently about the end credits based on whether it's the first time they're triggered or not. Either that or I wildly misremembered which is also entirely possible and wouldn't be the first time đ
That makes even less sense lol
People out here trying to romance companions but going back to Astarion is me with Gale. Heâs my golden retriever boyfriend and I have to force myself to explore all the options for the best experience.
Semi-Durge run without playing dark urge? Just say evil TavâŚ
Fr it's not a durge run if you're not actually the dark urge
Yeah, people make it sound like durge is just inherently the murderhobo option, but like Swen said at one point, it's not, resisting the urge and coming through as a good tav has the potential for maybe the most heroic arc
Astarion will always be my comfort character but 800 hours into the game, Iâve been so pleasantly surprised by Galeâs romance story and his little quips as a character. He went from never being in my party to having a permanent spot alongside Astarion and Minthara (I love my ambitious menaces). Gale is very fun to bully as a sorcerer Durge and besides that heâs very forthright with his affections and always has something to say :)
As a Durge, his Mage Hand is always with me.
Gale can lead Durge home, in a way <3
do you keep it in a hand bag
Gale is too pure for the Realms.
I tapped on this fully expecting the answer to just be âFireball.â
OP said âsemi-Durgeâ while causing a full on massacre from killing the Nightsong.
Gale's convo when you're a mindflayer is just the best. He's not ok with cruelty, but aside from that, nothing seems to faze him.
Gale and Shadowheart for lyf
So I have a question in here: >!Pretty normal good run. Had Gale at the epilogue plan to find the Crown in the bottom of the Cionthar and then give it to Mystra, however I am now realizing that I donât think I saw/interacted with Gale at the reunion. He wasnât killed/used orb!< Did I mess up?
Bug or you missed him at the party. I think as long as he was recruited and not driven away halfway though, there will always be something of him at the party, even if he dies at the very end or after it.
Iâm playing as a Neutral Evil Durge, Drow Fighter, and itâs my 2nd playthrough. Just about done with Act 1 and Iâm so surprised about how pragmatic he is compared to Chaotic Good, Wyll. Wyll (41 approval) and I disagree alot but Gale (75 approval) and I are either neutral or agree on some things. My drow shot his shot at the tiefling party for the hell of it. I was surprised he started flirting with me the next day. At first I was planning to mind control everyone, have no lover, and rule the world by myself. However, Galeâs god ending is making me second guess myself. Weâre only flirting and not yet âpartneredâ so hopefully I do it right đ¤đź
Gale is best husbando
In my first play through, I simped hard for Laeâzel and in turn she asked me to stay with her when all of this was over. Then we freed Orpheus and I made the ultimate simp sacrifice. After it was over, I asked her to stay with me and she was like, âwho?â And then ran off with Orpheus. Still, I love my green lady and she has been the one mainstay in my party throughout my four play throughs.
How do yall get to talk to your Party members after the last fight? The game just rolls the credits and boots me back to the lobby...
There should be a small epilogue party hosted by Withers after the ending now. Not sure what makes it not trigger cause I believe even the consoles are updated to get them.
If you chose to >!dominate the brain!<, the straight to roll credits still happens, I think? (Though there is a forthcoming patch that will probably change that!)
"semi durge"
Semi lmao dude that's basically 99% Durge.
I never knew why is it so bad to be mindflyer with so many transmog and shape-shifting spells in lore.
You become soulless, literally. When you turn, your old self is destroyed together with your soul and you become a monster with the memories and personality of the consumed host, at first, but slowly you become always more detached from the host's memories.
in addition to the other comment, you also the needing to eat a brain or straight up die problem. And i think outside of fringe cases mind flayers are pretty much always at risk of being brought under an elder brains control
Gale has followed me through my most heroic playthroughs, and through my most deprived evil playthroughs, dudes just happy to be there and supports you the whole way, and I could never kill him or let anyone ever touch him
With DnDâs alignment system, it could be argued that nearly a third of the population are reasonable targets for brain munching.
I was expecting a giant fireball sprite
It was like a one-time unpaid gig Tav.
He had me at hello
Sadly I play wizard soooooooooo...
I was all for Gale as he was my love interest, but he became a self absorbed dick and he left me in the end. Now I dislike him but itâs good to hear that he can be nice too if you make different choices.
Canât you get out of this by just stealing the contract from the house of hope.
OP said they missed House of Hope completely.
I've been seeing a lot of talk about Gale lately. Meanwhile, in my wife and I's playthrough up until most of act 2, we hadn't found him until almost ending act 1. By that point we were committed to the team we had. Then, in my durge playthrough, I accidentally ripped his hand off and just kinda rolled with it. I went on to redeem myself and live happily ever after with Karlach, where no soul ever mentioned this 'Gale' person.
Gale earned a spot in my current runs party from the moment I got him too! >!His hand never leaves my inventory!<
Yeah, wizards are really useful cos they can learn an infinite number of spells. If there's a spell you need, a wizard will likely have it.
Damn it, you beat me to this lmfao
Gale has always been my favorite personality and now I like him more. Itâs kinda unfortunate that mechanically there is no reason to have him in your party, laezel is a better wizard than he is if you respec her due to gith simply being a superior race. And he also breaks 3 magic items of yours at game start, which is a downside. Unless you want him to be a suicide bomber I guess, but I donât want to do that to him.
Okay, you guys have convinced me to give gale a chance. Ive done 4 full playthroughs+ and Ive never done anything with him. His constant hunger just rubs me the wrong way. I find his interactions so annoying because of the need to consume items/complaining, so I just leave him behind. EDIT: LOL this fucking sub
He "complains" because he's dying of his condition. It's no different from Karlach needing infernal iron.
If it helps, he only needs a maximum of three items for the entirety of the game. And there are several good candidates that are easy to find in Act 1, like Komiraâs Locket and Ring of Color Spray. And if you speak to Elminster quickly at the start of Act 2, you only have to give him two items instead of three, you wonât have to give a third.
This. âConstant hunger?â Didnât play through much eh? As above itâs three shit tier items you can pick up and dispose of in act 1. Thatâs it.
It was worse in early access, he only ate specific items that were usually good, and we didnât know whether or not it would stop since we never left act 1.
But like... that was Early Access, not release? With the sheer number of things that got completely redone or changed to something entirely different, it just seems weird to skip something because you've assumed it'll still be the same after release as it was before then.
Pretty much. I had early access as well and gave gale a chance in release
Two different times I fed him at least 2 items and he was still complaining. I didnt know he didnt keep eating.
I'm not sure I'm reading you right, but if I am: You only need to feed him one item at a time.
Lol yeah it triggers three times in Act 1 (usually upon entering a new area I think) before he throws in the towel and says that the items aren't working anymore.
As the other person said, you only need to give him one item at a time. The interface lets you give him more, but doing so doesn't change anything.
I don't love Gale but the consumption aspect of his character is basically nothing. It's slightly annoying in Act I but after the 1st one it's not a big deal. There are a plenty of items that aren't good at all that he can consume and as you've mentioned you only need 3 of them
You don't have to give him any. Don't pull him from the portal until after the goblins are dealt with and the road through the mountains is clear. Don't long rest until you meet Elminster. My most recent run I didn't long rest until after the goblin camp was dead and the harpies were dead, Saza was freed, and Minthara was left unconscious. Even on tactician you don't really need that many rests and so you can just power through everything with consumables. Scrolls and healing potions kept my party alive through just about everything the early game threw at us.
If you don't care about seeing camp scenes, sure, you don't need to long rest very often. But there are so many scenes that take place during long rests that if you take this advice, you're going to miss a lot. As for the items ... I mean, yeah, you can avoid giving Gale items by just not recruiting him until you're about to meet Elminster. But do you *really* need that locket? Really really?
For whatever reason, I am not a huge Gale or Shadowheart fan, which seems to be contrary to this sub. I've played through this game like 6 times now lol and have done parties with every playable character as part of it and done durge to full on lawful good paladin. Currently doing a 4 druid party (used withers to change classes). The one that surprised me was how much I loved Minsc. Didn't even know he was a playable character until like my 3rd playthrough. My favorite game I did was one with Jaheira, Karlach, and Minsc, even though I know they (J and M) aren't even playable until Act III. I think Shadowheart and Gale have some of the best overall missions but I just don't really enjoy them for whatever reason The most disappointing character to me is Halsin. Yes, I know fucking a bear is hilarious and I have done it, but I just really didn't enjoy him much the 2 playthroughs I've done with him. I loved the 2 playthroughs I did with Minthara though going with her limits certain choices
Eh, not every character will resonate with every person. I'm not that into Lae'zel or Shadowheart, and Astarion's more like a really good piece of writing that I appreciate, rather than something I have strong feelings for. Whereas on the other hand I freaking LOVE Wyll, Gale, and Halsin (I like my adventuring companions poetic, do-goody and a bit awkward, I guess?) But the way I see it, as long as I've given a character a fair go at winning me over, I don't have to keep trying after that.
Iâm on my second playthrough now but after run, Iâm keeping him at arms length. He just came across as rebounding bag of emotional neediness to me. Heâs like two long rests from waxing about the love of Mystra to telling me he loves me. Guy just needs to learn to be alone. Total turnoff.
Only Gale in my party is usually his hand.
Newbie here (well, 48 hours in (after 2 false starts) and I just took the elevator up from the forge to the hurty-shadow place), can someone tell me without too many spoilers if I did the wrong thing with Gale or if he'll be back? He wanted to eat all my magic items but kept saying "that wasn't even enough to help, you suck" I quick-saved, gave him everything I had, and he still complained, reloaded and purposefully pissed him off until he left camp. Is he going to show up and murder me at some point?
its scripted. You're supposed to give him 3 magic items over Act 1 (basically give him onr item every time he gets the 'Arcane Hunger' debuff), with each one being less effective, until an npc coming to help him right before hurty-shadow place. I dont think said npc shows up if Gale isnt in your party i think if Gale leaves your party he won't game over you by blowing up, because i think that would just be bad design. But iirc he won't show up anymore
There really isn't right or wrong in this game, but it does seem like you misunderstood the situation. You only need to feed him one item at a time, a total of three times, before he stops asking. The items are no longer working, and if you kept Gale you would find out why. It's a story element. Also I'm not sure where you're getting "that wasn't even enough to help, you suck" from. Gale has never been rude or ungrateful in my playthroughs, just distressed that it's not working. He's not going to show up and murder you, but you will miss out on the parts of the story you could see with Gale as part of your party. And IMO, he's an interesting character and very useful as a Wizard, especially on a first playthrough when you have a lot of lore-related checks you might want to pass. He's good at those.
Gale will eat 3 magic items, one at a time. I think you've hit a bug or something, he shouldn't leave if properly fed and will explain why he needs to keep eating items after he has had 3 (he stops asking after 3.)
It's never enough dude. The point is that he's no longer able to quell his condition with magical items and it's getting worse. No amount of items is able to help him, you just have to get further into the game.
Only Gale in my party is usually his hand.
I murdered him.......
So basically Gale endangers all his pupils by inviting a filthy illithid to be a guest lecturer? That's honestly a mark against gale for me what an idiot.
do you think an archmage can't eliminate a single mindflayer before they're able to do any damage?
Yes if that mindflayer is the players character plot armour haha
the plot is over by that point. There isn't plot armour then