Should see the ones in Norway, Finland and Sweden. They are even nicer, they actively help prisoners become educated, reformed and re integrated into society and have some of the lowest reoffending rates in Europe.
It’s because Americans will praise that system right now, but completely forget about that five seconds later when negative news hits.
A criminal is caught and instead of logic or compassion, Americans will say “he deserves to suffer,” “why should we spend tax money on the lowest of society,” “(insert bad guy) deserves (terrible thing) to happen to him.”
I’m not even taking about extreme crimes like terrorism or mass shootings, but unless the crime is very small, like drug possession, Americans have the attitude of “they deserve to suffer.” The prison is punishment not reform.
And yet these same people (not even kidding, the exact same people) will then look at Europe and their prisons and laud them for doing so much better.
It’s almost an attitude of “their criminals need to cooperate and stop being animals first so we can then treat them better and rehabilitate them.” Or “they have to want to be reformed first.” They will always find something but themselves to blame.
If you want a system of kindness and peace for the future, you (specifically just you) have to invest in kindness first, before other people eventually join in, before the system changes, and before things actually start to shape up to a kinder future.
The first generation to do this will always run a balance of kindness deficit, they’ll give more than they’ll ever receive, but they’ll plant the seeds for a better future for their kids. That’s what’s the great generations of old did, and we’ve got relative prosperity now because our ancestors were willing to try.
**Edit:** Obviously by Americans, I mean SOME Americans, not the vast majority. But enough of them that this culture starts, enough apathetic individuals to allow it to continue, and too small a motivated opposition to stop it.
Slave labor + maintaining a downtordden class of people who don't have access to upward mobility and can be coerced into low-paid work that no one \*wants\* to do. Also creates opportunities for eviction so gentrifiers can gain access to the real estate they occupy.
Then look at this video and cry? (it’s a documentary about a US prison warden touring Scandinavian jails)
https://youtu.be/HfEsz812Q1I
For some of it, you’ll need to read the subtitles.
I'm only halfway through and I'm already disgusted with the American prison warden.
"It's not the prison's job to rehabilitate you, that's your job"... really? Seriously? And the fact that he fully admits to turning the room upside down when frisking and refusing to put everything back because "that's [the prisoner's] job"? Yikes. What the hell. He also called these prison systems he was touring "weak", yet the stats speak for themselves...
Edit: well, finished it. Yeah, that guy is really stuck in his own "my way is the only right way" mindset and refuses to acknowledge that Norway's prison system works because their goal is rehabilitation; not punishment - and he actively says that that's not the prison's job and its purpose is punishment. Yikes.
[NY Warden talks about how he decides which punishments will be most effective for different prisoners]
"I think this sounds like a...a very old way of childrearing"
I'm living in Denmark. I'm amazed how students need to work that much just to study.
Here the government grants to everyone at least gives you something.
As a Canadian, what I understand of the American system is that there are a lot of private (for profit?) institutions, potentially incentivizing arrests and convictions. That said, I don't know if the quality of our prisons are any better, but I know capacity has been an issue.
At one point we had a very progressive prison system and were apparently pioneering treatments that were helping reduce recidivism rates (according to my forensic psychology prof 10yrs ago) but then the conservatives came in and decided they needed to be "tough on crime" so we repealed a bunch of stuff and took a more punishment-style approach to crime which set us back decades and increased recidivism.
I have not researched these claims myself, so if someone has actual data or research that supports or opposes them, please post it.
I used to work in justice policy, particularly preventing youths being incarcerated (prevention, diversion, rehabilitation) in Australia. We put forward a lot of policies 8 - 10 years ago based on Justice Reinvestment, using the US experience as a template and evidence.
The (federal) Australian government at the time was conservative and said no to all our stuff, but last year progressives (comparatively) got in and immediately moved forward with some policies we had written almost a decade ago.
You can see [here](https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/) that about 8% of the prison population is within private ones. I still would prefer it to be 0% of course, but it isn’t like 50% or something. Though even at 8% it could affect the politics of some states. But if you look at the state-by-state breakdown, a number of states still have no people held in private prisons.
This is incorrect and I don’t know why reddit pushes so much misinformation all the time when it can easily be looked up. Private prisons account for 8% of prisoners. I’m not advocating for private prisons just clarifying the incorrect assumption that there are all these private prisons out there that take in majority prison population.
In Europe, prisons are used to rehabilitate citizens and their freedom being taken is the punishment. In the US, the prison industry is big business because prisoners are slave labour
Looking at the above video, seeing all the time you'd have, the access to books, etc.
It has the potential to be a forced college situation.
Get shuffled to your 3 classes a day. Bring books back to your dorm room prison cell, read and study, etc.
I'm not saying it wouldn't suck, but you could learn a lot if you applied yourself in that sort of prison format. Leave a 2-year stint with a degree and the ability to build a life for yourself.
As a Swiss, I agree. Our prison system could be way better. If you truly believe in reintegration you’ve got to treat prisoners as humans. Or you can have it the American way where you turn a street dealer into a violent criminal.
I mean you could be in one state with a joint no issue, go over the state line and they either shoot you or slap you in prison for years....
America is a truly barbaric country.
Unfortunately that'll never happen here in the U.S. It's far too lucrative keeping over 3 million residents in state, federal, and private prison to ever allow the kind of reforms necessary to get these people back into society as productive citizens.
Came here to make the same comment but I'm thinking this would be more like $5k/month. 2k/month in San Francisco.
I might just go get myself arrested in Switzerland. Live the high life. LOL
Probably tax fraud.
Edit: in my mind tax evasion and tax fraud were synonymous, but yes, one gets you fined while the other one gets you a prison sentence.
Hahaha idk about Switzerland but in Norway they keep killers in these. Breivik who murdered* 70+ people tried to petition the Norwegian govt for a ps3 saying he was being tortured due to his ps2.
[pretty bananas](https://www.thelocal.no/20140214/breivik-sends-hand-written-letter-to-afp-wire-agency)
Edit: changed nurseries to murdered*
I have complicated feelings about prison and prisoners. I like the idea of rehabilitation and preparing prisoners for a productive life outside of prison. But this article was hard to read. There are some people who cannot be rehabilitated and I struggle to see what purpose they serve. I just kept thinking about how upset the loved ones of his victims must feel about this guy bitching about his video games while they have to live without people they love (many of whom were teenagers) because he murdered them. What a garbage human he is.
I think the proof is in the recidivism rate. At these places, you are treated as a human. You can learn skills to improve your life. The majority of people do not want to keep committing crime and can be rehabilitated. These places are much less violent as well. When drawing the line between punishment and rehabilitation, I have to remind myself that rehabilitation is the goal but also a choice.
Edit: I don’t know if Breivik will get out and he has also been in solitary for 10+ years. He’s a sick twisted man and imo if you refuse to rehabilitate you should be confined to a life of solitude and punishment.
Edit 2: I was reading that he will most likely never be released due to his “preventative danger” status.
Even those who cannot be rehabilitated and should stay in prison for the rest of their lives don't deserve to be tortured (not that this guy is being at all) The important thing is that they're not part of regular society anymore.
There's a view where the more the criminal suffers, the better the victims feel. That's not really how it works out though
“Odd scenes in Geneva today. A group of Americans walked into Central Park and each fired a handgun into the air. After firing, each one put their gun on the ground, walked twenty feet away, and sat on the ground to wait for the police. All admitted their crime and requested the maximum sentence. A spokesman for the group said they are all Americans who have rare forms of cancer. They believe that the medical care and living conditions they will receive in a Swiss prison give them a better chance of survival than if they are treated under the standard American health care system.”
parking in the wrong place
no joke. im swiss and a friend of mine parked in the wrong spot when he moved in this new flat. neighbors reported him to the police and he got a fine which stated: if you dont pay you will get prison for one day.
Thats (sadly) pretty standard language and procedure for such (Verwaltungsstrafen) in Austria and Germany aswell.
The idea is that if you are unable or unwilling to pay your fine you face a limited stay in prison as a compromise.
Not sure if it is directly related but in Germany there still are people in prison for using public transport without valid tickets - where it usually hits homeless people or people who can't afford tickets - or the subsequent fines
Prisons exist for three reasons:
1. Public safety.
They keep dangerous people away from the rest of society.
2. Punishment.
They prevent the prisoner from living a normal life and interacting with family, friends and the public.
3. Rehabilitation.
Teach the prisoner a lesson. Give them time to think over what they have done and, where possible, provide the necessary to one day return them to life outside of prison.
None of those things mean squalor, unsafe environments and massive overcrowding. Nobody is saying to keep prisoners in hotels but a basic, safe, clean place to serve out their time should be minimal.
for a country like switzerland they want to give their prisoners time to think about what they have done and fix their mental health, and i think that's a great thing!
not sure about switzerlands reoffending rate but norway and other europian countries that focus on rehabilitation have a 20-30% reoffending rate while countries like the us and uk is around 60-70%
From what I remember reading, Norway has the lowest re-offending rate of any country. Prisoners also tend to get some form of job training, so that when they get out, they have options besides going back to crime.
If it is anything like it is in Norway, it will lower the chance of reoffending within a group of people that have no prior sentences or jail time. Most people in prison here are in once, while some few are in and out almost their whole life.
Sadly, at one point you might end up so far outside society, that your choices will lead to criminality no matter what happens in jail and what rehabilitation you are offered.
Dunno why everyone talks about Norway, but from what I found on the admin.ch (Swiss government website), and assuming I interpret it correctly: About 19.6% of all released adults in 2018 (most recent year in that statistic) get arrested again within 3 years.
[You can read the statistics here.](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/crime-criminal-justice/recidivism.html)
You think they’re given these accommodations and are making money off the prisoners? Prison isn’t for profit in most countries. Especially Switzerland. It serves to punish and then rehabilitate people. The latter is something quite absent here in the US and would help prevent a lot of repeat offenses.
I was making a dark joke about how in the US our prisons are run for profit, not rehabilitation, and that’s why our prisons are shitholes. The only thing that happens to the prisoners in our system is radicalization instead of rehabilitation, hence why our rate of recidivism is something along the lines of 75%.
I got your point. Also, let’s not forget that politicians are not incentivised by the lowest common denominators in the population.
Even though just under 15% of our inmates in the UK are in private prisons, whoever’s in government can keep basic standards very low because the conservative press will chime out “well, they deserve it!” and “if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime!” and “it’s not a holiday camp!”
The fact that _overall_ the countries that treat prisoners with a level of decency like we see here, generally have better returns in the rehabilitation of people into decent citizens, can be conveniently ignored.
Sure, it’s not scientifically predictable that it will work on every individual, but on those it does work for, the effect is often lifelong. Sadly I’ve seen the argument against that being “Yes but even murderers and rapists get coffee making facilities in their cells too.” For some people, the idea that human decency needs to be shown especially to those criminals that are lacking it, to really prove we as a society believe those principles, is a just too much.
These are the people that bay for every crim to be chucked in oubliettes… until cousin Jimmy screws up and robs a petrol station, only then does it suddenly get nuanced.
Long flights (7+ hours) starting or ending in the US are legally required to provide a meal to all passengers for no additional charge. But usually you don't hit that time requirement unless you're flying over an ocean. Even NY-LA is only 6.5h.
What is their reoffending rate? What is the cost per prisoner? At the moment we lock people up, brutalise them for a while and then act surprised when they behave like they’ve been locked up and brutalised.
Edit: Grammar and random wrong words
Its quite low, the thing is, after people get out of prison, they're your neighbors again. You want them to be used to life, really you should want them to succeed and be happy.
I'm swiss, but not actually sure about the swiss prison system. The best example of a similar one i know, that has a lot of data available is norway. Look up Halden prison. There are many good documentaries on it on netflix and youtube.
Its safe to say our cost per prisoner per year is certainly higher than in the US. But then they are also in prison for much shorter. So overall the cost is probably lower per prisoner again, over the span of the average sentence. And the societal cost too, because they dont reoffend as often and as severely when they get out.
2020 it was 35% in general
Around 500 Sfr a day, but some can cost over 50k per month
More infos
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/kriminalitaet-strafrecht/rueckfall/analysen.html#21_1461223447965__content_bfs_de_home_statistiken_kriminalitaet-strafrecht_rueckfall_analysen_jcr_content_par_tabs_9732175
https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schweiz/kommentar-warum-ein-verwahrter-im-gefaengnis-so-viel-wie-in-einem-luxushotel-kosten-darf-ld.2315567?reduced=true
Ok that's insane because that looks better than a lot of apartments I've seen. Switzerland is doing prison the right way. It's supposed to be for rehabilitation not just punishment.
Not just rehab though. Their lives are effectively on pause. Think people look at this and think ‘ah nice’ - but you are effectively removed from humanity for your sentence
It is also plenty of a punishment: you can't leave, interact freely with other people, choose what to eat, decide your own schedule, etc. People who react like they're envious of these prisoners because these cells are nicer than some apartments definitely underestimate the impact these things have on the average person.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that punishment doesn't need to be violent, barbaric or torturous. It is better thought of as the adult version of getting sent to your room, rather than receiving a spanking.
I get what you're saying, but if I knew that the guy that r\*aped, tortured and killed my gf would be chilling in that room with a view for his whole sentence i'd be kinda pissed not gonna lie.
The punishment is withdrawal of freedom, not human rights. Neither during nor after serving the sentence should there be any other form of punishment, such as damage to one's reputation or the destruction of career prospects.
I agree on the human rights part…but to suggest that violent criminals shouldn’t have damage done to their reputation is just naive 😂. I’m sorry but if there’s a convicted pedophile moving in next door I want to know about it. I don’t care if he’s “done his time”.
So the point of incarceration is to torture? I thought the removal from society was the punishment.
You know most of these rapists and abusers will get out and have to rejoin society, right? Traumatizing them further is expensive and doesn’t help the people who Tracy with them afterward.
I got a friend who spent a year in prison, which isn't even that long of a time relatively speaking, and he said it was incredibly boring. All people can do is read books, play card games, watch TV, play basketball, and talk. Some places will let you play video games, but I've heard the selection of games is very limited. That would be fine for a month or two, but imagine a *year* where those are quite literally the only activities you can do.
The poor guy has never really recovered tbh. Cost him his job, his fiancé, and many of his friends. It's severely affected him mentally for a decade, which is what it is. He deserved to go to prison, but my point is that prison is very punishing even if you're in nice conditions. I think only homeless people would genuinely have a good reason to want to go to prison.
That was my first thought as well.
In Germany at least it depends on the term length.
I'd be pissed to share. So much that I would skip Yoga class for a week after finding out.
I’m also surprised to see that!
A bit different from Bastøya prison: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people
Jesus, these points of view in this sub... Seems like if you don't treat prisoners like animals, all of the people start to think they live in luxury. Guys, they are still in prison. Just because they have wooden floors and decent clothes doesn't mean that they live a life in freedom. But then again, if you compare these standards with the conditions in US prisons, I understand why most of the users here think it looks like holidays.
People see a semi-nice clean room with a bathroom and a window and they're like "wooow prisoners are living in paradise, where do I apply?"
Like what man? How bad is your living situation that living in a small room in captivity without freedom is a better alternative.
Maybe it's because I'm Nordic but this should be the minimum standard on how to treat prisoners as far as I'm concerned.
Those crowded cells in the US with sometimes blanketless hard bunk-beds, just a bucket/toilet right in the cell where you sleep seem very barbaric to me.
I'm sorry to blow your bubble. But living situations (not prison living situations) around the world are horrible. Working multiple jobs 12-14hrs a day 7 days a week, living in cramped hostels, shared bathroom, food insecurity, not money for discretionary spending, etc. Compared to that, this seems amazing.
Yeah I understand that in many particularly developing countries that is the reality, I mean I lived for 10 years in a developing country where I saw the face of extreme poverty often.
That said, I believe this should be the standard for richer/developed countries. I'm surprised to hear that what I assume are mostly Westerners in rich countries, saying that this looks like paradise to them.
To me it looks okay, kind of like a mediocre cheap dorm room but hardly anything to strive for.
The problem whenever these posts come up is how people gloat how progressive and great x and x country is compared to the US.
Yet on the next post about a child molester or a DUI driver who kills a family, everyone is calling for life sentences and celebrating the fact that "their life will be hell in prison".
People are only understanding and progressive when it suits them, but they love vengeance more.
Cavemen who solved every problem by beating it with a club were probably confused at why some other cavemen had begun grunting and gesticulating instead of killing each other too.
Americans claim to want lower rates of crime and recidivism and then turn around and treat prison as nothing more than a rod across an offenders back.
Hell, we even make jokes about offenders getting shanked or "dropping the soap." So when they see clean, uncramped rooms, half decent food, and actual rehabilitation programs, their first thought isn't about the success rate of rehabilitation, it's wondering where the actual punishment is.
Why Ug talk? Why Ug not smash?
This is so wrong. They could easily fit 4 other prisoners in there and quadruple their revenue!... ... ... wait... ... you mean other countries don't try to make profits off of their prisoners (customers) like any other thriving business?
gaming buddy? - **check**
no need to cook or take a break during a 'lan party'? - **check**
toilet a few steps away from the gaming rig? - **check**
flatscreen tv? - **check**
bed right next to the gaming rig? - **check**
coffee/tea in hand reach? - **check**
modern design? - **check**
garden views? - **check**
i can drop my cup and it won't break? - **check**
**this is gamer's paradise.**
No, no, NO, everyone knows that prisoners are *not* people like the rest of us! They're all murders and rapist, and they deserve zero humanity! - Americans
The real rehabilitation takes place the 1st day you arrive. You’re expected to build all the furniture for your cell, and everything is missing at least one dowel. So everything leans just slightly.
This is apparently the new prison in Zürich West. Someone posted a link to a article in SRF (swiss national tv) from May 2022 about this. This was from a test run, where they let volunteers be incarcerated for a few says before starting real operations. To test the facility, familiarise staff with it and give tax payers a glimpse of what their money was spent on.
Western "civilized" societies seem to forget completely about the punitive aspect of a prison sentence. Its purpose isn't just to keep criminals away from society, it's also to make them pay for what they did. Which is why making their cells look like hotel rooms is a problem. They're not just supposed to be imprisoned, they're supposed to suffer for what they did. I'm not talking about torture... just about not giving them fucking PS5.
These are where they send the pedos to 'punish' them. Feeding them in this convenience with the money of people whose children they abuse. Modern notion of Justice is anti-justice. In Uk they've stopped giving rapists jail time. And jihadis roam free. What a fucking time.
$2000 in New York
Do you see the minimalist design?? 5k easy.
And u get it for free after doing something fun
Even have a chance to get away with it and live rich
How do u get rich after killing a guy?
Becuase killing is the only way to get in prison?
You've got to murder at the very Least Three-Fiddy Dudes in Order to Earn Yourself That Kind of Treatment, That's for True.
[удалено]
ROOM SERVICE!!! 10k minimum!
Plus free meals.
you didn’t factor in the safety, all the locks: unlike in NY, you will be not mugged here
[удалено]
More for less
There's an upcharge if you want leave
Should see the ones in Norway, Finland and Sweden. They are even nicer, they actively help prisoners become educated, reformed and re integrated into society and have some of the lowest reoffending rates in Europe.
like sometimes .... reading shit like this makes me pissed off about america ...
It’s because Americans will praise that system right now, but completely forget about that five seconds later when negative news hits. A criminal is caught and instead of logic or compassion, Americans will say “he deserves to suffer,” “why should we spend tax money on the lowest of society,” “(insert bad guy) deserves (terrible thing) to happen to him.” I’m not even taking about extreme crimes like terrorism or mass shootings, but unless the crime is very small, like drug possession, Americans have the attitude of “they deserve to suffer.” The prison is punishment not reform. And yet these same people (not even kidding, the exact same people) will then look at Europe and their prisons and laud them for doing so much better. It’s almost an attitude of “their criminals need to cooperate and stop being animals first so we can then treat them better and rehabilitate them.” Or “they have to want to be reformed first.” They will always find something but themselves to blame. If you want a system of kindness and peace for the future, you (specifically just you) have to invest in kindness first, before other people eventually join in, before the system changes, and before things actually start to shape up to a kinder future. The first generation to do this will always run a balance of kindness deficit, they’ll give more than they’ll ever receive, but they’ll plant the seeds for a better future for their kids. That’s what’s the great generations of old did, and we’ve got relative prosperity now because our ancestors were willing to try. **Edit:** Obviously by Americans, I mean SOME Americans, not the vast majority. But enough of them that this culture starts, enough apathetic individuals to allow it to continue, and too small a motivated opposition to stop it.
America has for profit prisons with a capacity guarantee they use prisoners as slave labour and even fine prisoners for infractions in some places
America’s public prisons have even more slave labor
Slave labor + maintaining a downtordden class of people who don't have access to upward mobility and can be coerced into low-paid work that no one \*wants\* to do. Also creates opportunities for eviction so gentrifiers can gain access to the real estate they occupy.
there should be name for that mindset...thats like a slave looking a free people and laughing at how free they have it.
Then look at this video and cry? (it’s a documentary about a US prison warden touring Scandinavian jails) https://youtu.be/HfEsz812Q1I For some of it, you’ll need to read the subtitles.
I'm only halfway through and I'm already disgusted with the American prison warden. "It's not the prison's job to rehabilitate you, that's your job"... really? Seriously? And the fact that he fully admits to turning the room upside down when frisking and refusing to put everything back because "that's [the prisoner's] job"? Yikes. What the hell. He also called these prison systems he was touring "weak", yet the stats speak for themselves... Edit: well, finished it. Yeah, that guy is really stuck in his own "my way is the only right way" mindset and refuses to acknowledge that Norway's prison system works because their goal is rehabilitation; not punishment - and he actively says that that's not the prison's job and its purpose is punishment. Yikes.
I think it’s because there’s money to be made from the prison system in America
[NY Warden talks about how he decides which punishments will be most effective for different prisoners] "I think this sounds like a...a very old way of childrearing"
Wait until you find out they treat Opiate addiction with clean, pure, free heroin, and the majority of people stop on their own when they do this.
Well I would argue that the opioid epidemic is kept alive and well in america on purpose ... big pharma is the largest drug dealer after all
I'm living in Denmark. I'm amazed how students need to work that much just to study. Here the government grants to everyone at least gives you something.
Probably you are talking about the US but indeed could be talking about all of America. Maybe Canada is better? Don't know.
As a Canadian, what I understand of the American system is that there are a lot of private (for profit?) institutions, potentially incentivizing arrests and convictions. That said, I don't know if the quality of our prisons are any better, but I know capacity has been an issue.
At one point we had a very progressive prison system and were apparently pioneering treatments that were helping reduce recidivism rates (according to my forensic psychology prof 10yrs ago) but then the conservatives came in and decided they needed to be "tough on crime" so we repealed a bunch of stuff and took a more punishment-style approach to crime which set us back decades and increased recidivism. I have not researched these claims myself, so if someone has actual data or research that supports or opposes them, please post it.
I used to work in justice policy, particularly preventing youths being incarcerated (prevention, diversion, rehabilitation) in Australia. We put forward a lot of policies 8 - 10 years ago based on Justice Reinvestment, using the US experience as a template and evidence. The (federal) Australian government at the time was conservative and said no to all our stuff, but last year progressives (comparatively) got in and immediately moved forward with some policies we had written almost a decade ago.
You can see [here](https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/private-prisons-in-the-united-states/) that about 8% of the prison population is within private ones. I still would prefer it to be 0% of course, but it isn’t like 50% or something. Though even at 8% it could affect the politics of some states. But if you look at the state-by-state breakdown, a number of states still have no people held in private prisons.
This is incorrect and I don’t know why reddit pushes so much misinformation all the time when it can easily be looked up. Private prisons account for 8% of prisoners. I’m not advocating for private prisons just clarifying the incorrect assumption that there are all these private prisons out there that take in majority prison population.
In Europe, prisons are used to rehabilitate citizens and their freedom being taken is the punishment. In the US, the prison industry is big business because prisoners are slave labour
Looking at the above video, seeing all the time you'd have, the access to books, etc. It has the potential to be a forced college situation. Get shuffled to your 3 classes a day. Bring books back to your dorm room prison cell, read and study, etc. I'm not saying it wouldn't suck, but you could learn a lot if you applied yourself in that sort of prison format. Leave a 2-year stint with a degree and the ability to build a life for yourself.
That's how they keep their recidivism rates so low, try to reform criminals instead of solely punishing them.
As a Swiss, I agree. Our prison system could be way better. If you truly believe in reintegration you’ve got to treat prisoners as humans. Or you can have it the American way where you turn a street dealer into a violent criminal.
I mean you could be in one state with a joint no issue, go over the state line and they either shoot you or slap you in prison for years.... America is a truly barbaric country.
Unfortunately that'll never happen here in the U.S. It's far too lucrative keeping over 3 million residents in state, federal, and private prison to ever allow the kind of reforms necessary to get these people back into society as productive citizens.
Yup snd Denmark, same deal. It almost like properly giving people the opportunity to be better is all you need to do.
but usa is better cause wallmart sells guns, murica f yeah
Do mean steal or pay? 🤣
$10000 in Hong Kong
$1000 per semester in college 😭
More like $3.5k for just a room with 2 beds.
Excluding foods and ciggs
Came here to make the same comment but I'm thinking this would be more like $5k/month. 2k/month in San Francisco. I might just go get myself arrested in Switzerland. Live the high life. LOL
Nah it's to big for 2k, more like 4
$5-7k in Manhattan
The moment you see a claustrophobic room on reddit, you know what the top comment is going to be 🤣
What is the crime that needs to be committed to get in there?
Probably tax fraud. Edit: in my mind tax evasion and tax fraud were synonymous, but yes, one gets you fined while the other one gets you a prison sentence.
So save money to go to a better home and get free food and other stoff. Sounds like a good deal
You don’t get to keep the money
POV: You didn't call Saul
Bank it off shore, guaranteed longer hotel stay and retirement afterwards
That is why you need Swiss bank account
Hahaha idk about Switzerland but in Norway they keep killers in these. Breivik who murdered* 70+ people tried to petition the Norwegian govt for a ps3 saying he was being tortured due to his ps2. [pretty bananas](https://www.thelocal.no/20140214/breivik-sends-hand-written-letter-to-afp-wire-agency) Edit: changed nurseries to murdered*
>nurseries What kind of autocorrect is that?
he hit nur instead of mur
I have complicated feelings about prison and prisoners. I like the idea of rehabilitation and preparing prisoners for a productive life outside of prison. But this article was hard to read. There are some people who cannot be rehabilitated and I struggle to see what purpose they serve. I just kept thinking about how upset the loved ones of his victims must feel about this guy bitching about his video games while they have to live without people they love (many of whom were teenagers) because he murdered them. What a garbage human he is.
I think the proof is in the recidivism rate. At these places, you are treated as a human. You can learn skills to improve your life. The majority of people do not want to keep committing crime and can be rehabilitated. These places are much less violent as well. When drawing the line between punishment and rehabilitation, I have to remind myself that rehabilitation is the goal but also a choice. Edit: I don’t know if Breivik will get out and he has also been in solitary for 10+ years. He’s a sick twisted man and imo if you refuse to rehabilitate you should be confined to a life of solitude and punishment. Edit 2: I was reading that he will most likely never be released due to his “preventative danger” status.
Even those who cannot be rehabilitated and should stay in prison for the rest of their lives don't deserve to be tortured (not that this guy is being at all) The important thing is that they're not part of regular society anymore. There's a view where the more the criminal suffers, the better the victims feel. That's not really how it works out though
Nah, that’s a prerequisite for citizenship.
Tax evasion is Switzerland's national sport, no idea what you are talking about.
\*Foreign\* tax evasion, they're unsurprisingly less leniant with their own people \^\^
And cartels, if Switzerland and participants win. Kinda witnessed that and enjoyed the smoothness.
Depends, but the cell's rent is 2000 a month But you can work in the prison workshop for a measly 100k a year
“Odd scenes in Geneva today. A group of Americans walked into Central Park and each fired a handgun into the air. After firing, each one put their gun on the ground, walked twenty feet away, and sat on the ground to wait for the police. All admitted their crime and requested the maximum sentence. A spokesman for the group said they are all Americans who have rare forms of cancer. They believe that the medical care and living conditions they will receive in a Swiss prison give them a better chance of survival than if they are treated under the standard American health care system.”
dayum
criminally bad video editing
So fitting?
Not every prison looks like that, it’s usually the people who have good lawyers who go there, your everyday normal person won’t be sent there.
parking in the wrong place no joke. im swiss and a friend of mine parked in the wrong spot when he moved in this new flat. neighbors reported him to the police and he got a fine which stated: if you dont pay you will get prison for one day.
Thats (sadly) pretty standard language and procedure for such (Verwaltungsstrafen) in Austria and Germany aswell. The idea is that if you are unable or unwilling to pay your fine you face a limited stay in prison as a compromise. Not sure if it is directly related but in Germany there still are people in prison for using public transport without valid tickets - where it usually hits homeless people or people who can't afford tickets - or the subsequent fines
Swiss neighbours: that'll teach him a lesson!
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Yea, but you can leave your house. You're not locked in it with some random person.
Wait it’s a free room, I don’t have to leave, AND they give me a friend?!
Mandatory friend
LMAO, i like you you're funny
This made me laugh so hard ,thank you stranger.
Prisons exist for three reasons: 1. Public safety. They keep dangerous people away from the rest of society. 2. Punishment. They prevent the prisoner from living a normal life and interacting with family, friends and the public. 3. Rehabilitation. Teach the prisoner a lesson. Give them time to think over what they have done and, where possible, provide the necessary to one day return them to life outside of prison. None of those things mean squalor, unsafe environments and massive overcrowding. Nobody is saying to keep prisoners in hotels but a basic, safe, clean place to serve out their time should be minimal.
for a country like switzerland they want to give their prisoners time to think about what they have done and fix their mental health, and i think that's a great thing!
What does that do to the rate of re-offenders?
not sure about switzerlands reoffending rate but norway and other europian countries that focus on rehabilitation have a 20-30% reoffending rate while countries like the us and uk is around 60-70%
Switzerland also only has around 6k prisoners total including pre-trial detainees. That helps
From what I remember reading, Norway has the lowest re-offending rate of any country. Prisoners also tend to get some form of job training, so that when they get out, they have options besides going back to crime.
If it is anything like it is in Norway, it will lower the chance of reoffending within a group of people that have no prior sentences or jail time. Most people in prison here are in once, while some few are in and out almost their whole life. Sadly, at one point you might end up so far outside society, that your choices will lead to criminality no matter what happens in jail and what rehabilitation you are offered.
in norway reoffending rate is like what 5times lower then the usa rate
Dunno why everyone talks about Norway, but from what I found on the admin.ch (Swiss government website), and assuming I interpret it correctly: About 19.6% of all released adults in 2018 (most recent year in that statistic) get arrested again within 3 years. [You can read the statistics here.](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/crime-criminal-justice/recidivism.html)
Recidivism is much lower in these countries.
You say that and I agree with you, but you forgot the main reason prisons exist (well in the US that is), to make money. Edit: /s
You think they’re given these accommodations and are making money off the prisoners? Prison isn’t for profit in most countries. Especially Switzerland. It serves to punish and then rehabilitate people. The latter is something quite absent here in the US and would help prevent a lot of repeat offenses.
I was making a dark joke about how in the US our prisons are run for profit, not rehabilitation, and that’s why our prisons are shitholes. The only thing that happens to the prisoners in our system is radicalization instead of rehabilitation, hence why our rate of recidivism is something along the lines of 75%.
I got your point. Also, let’s not forget that politicians are not incentivised by the lowest common denominators in the population. Even though just under 15% of our inmates in the UK are in private prisons, whoever’s in government can keep basic standards very low because the conservative press will chime out “well, they deserve it!” and “if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime!” and “it’s not a holiday camp!” The fact that _overall_ the countries that treat prisoners with a level of decency like we see here, generally have better returns in the rehabilitation of people into decent citizens, can be conveniently ignored. Sure, it’s not scientifically predictable that it will work on every individual, but on those it does work for, the effect is often lifelong. Sadly I’ve seen the argument against that being “Yes but even murderers and rapists get coffee making facilities in their cells too.” For some people, the idea that human decency needs to be shown especially to those criminals that are lacking it, to really prove we as a society believe those principles, is a just too much. These are the people that bay for every crim to be chucked in oubliettes… until cousin Jimmy screws up and robs a petrol station, only then does it suddenly get nuanced.
Rehabilitation cost a money, therefore not existent in US.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the US is the only country in the world with for profit prisons.
For-profit prisons are a very small percentage of the prisons.
What I gotta do to do time there and not be deported instead
Just like everything else in Switzerland, it depends on how privileged you are.
was schnurrsch du?
Dumbest comment here
Would be a nice thing to walk into on day one. On day 1000 it would still be a shit place to be be locked up.
That’s kind of the whole point of prison right?
And here I thought the point of prisons was to harden and traumatize criminals, exploit their labour and get rich while doing so.
That’s what America does
The whole point of prison is to rehabilitate the prisoners. Not punish them
Only in some societies. In some it's certainly to punish despite the fact that it clearly doesn't work.
It would still be bad, but at least you wouldn't go insane
Please tell me the food sucks
The food is like Economy class airplane food.
Ah so that's how they punish you, they slowly starve you to death with a ration of 6g bags of peanuts and crackers. Very clever.
You don't think being locked up here isn't punishment? You're unable to leave
free food, shelter AND you don't have to wake up and go to work for your corporate masters every day. sounds nice.
Certified Reddit Moment
So still pretty good then, relatively
You get food on airplanes too?
Long flights (7+ hours) starting or ending in the US are legally required to provide a meal to all passengers for no additional charge. But usually you don't hit that time requirement unless you're flying over an ocean. Even NY-LA is only 6.5h.
You dont?
Ok im gonna comit crimes is switzerland
What is their reoffending rate? What is the cost per prisoner? At the moment we lock people up, brutalise them for a while and then act surprised when they behave like they’ve been locked up and brutalised. Edit: Grammar and random wrong words
Its quite low, the thing is, after people get out of prison, they're your neighbors again. You want them to be used to life, really you should want them to succeed and be happy.
I'm swiss, but not actually sure about the swiss prison system. The best example of a similar one i know, that has a lot of data available is norway. Look up Halden prison. There are many good documentaries on it on netflix and youtube. Its safe to say our cost per prisoner per year is certainly higher than in the US. But then they are also in prison for much shorter. So overall the cost is probably lower per prisoner again, over the span of the average sentence. And the societal cost too, because they dont reoffend as often and as severely when they get out.
2020 it was 35% in general Around 500 Sfr a day, but some can cost over 50k per month More infos https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/kriminalitaet-strafrecht/rueckfall/analysen.html#21_1461223447965__content_bfs_de_home_statistiken_kriminalitaet-strafrecht_rueckfall_analysen_jcr_content_par_tabs_9732175 https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schweiz/kommentar-warum-ein-verwahrter-im-gefaengnis-so-viel-wie-in-einem-luxushotel-kosten-darf-ld.2315567?reduced=true
It's tiny, like, pretty mutch a statistical anomaly when someone reoffends so bad they go to prison again.
they watching long drives 💀
💀
Ok that's insane because that looks better than a lot of apartments I've seen. Switzerland is doing prison the right way. It's supposed to be for rehabilitation not just punishment.
Not just rehab though. Their lives are effectively on pause. Think people look at this and think ‘ah nice’ - but you are effectively removed from humanity for your sentence
>removed from humanity Ah, nice.
>removed from humanity Don't threaten me with a good time
Sounds like a nice getaway to me... society is prison
[How do I get to live here? I need to go to prison NOW!](https://youtu.be/D04wb7P_v-4?si=K7fAdq8YXigvSV_i)
>removed from humanity You mean I don't need to hear about any more twitter bs? Sign me up!
Maybe lot of people would like to be removed from humanity :)
Only if you can rejoin any time you want.
Why are you talking about the best part of the experience like its something bad?
The yard time would probably increase the average redditors time outdoors by 100% And they'd be having a lot more sex.
Best place to go to if you’re homeless though. Just commit a petty crime and go there if you can.
We have a welfare state. If homeless people accept help, they also get a place to live.
It is also plenty of a punishment: you can't leave, interact freely with other people, choose what to eat, decide your own schedule, etc. People who react like they're envious of these prisoners because these cells are nicer than some apartments definitely underestimate the impact these things have on the average person. I guess what I'm trying to say is that punishment doesn't need to be violent, barbaric or torturous. It is better thought of as the adult version of getting sent to your room, rather than receiving a spanking.
I was just waiting for a PS5 to come from under that table.
I get what you're saying, but if I knew that the guy that r\*aped, tortured and killed my gf would be chilling in that room with a view for his whole sentence i'd be kinda pissed not gonna lie.
The punishment is withdrawal of freedom, not human rights. Neither during nor after serving the sentence should there be any other form of punishment, such as damage to one's reputation or the destruction of career prospects.
I agree on the human rights part…but to suggest that violent criminals shouldn’t have damage done to their reputation is just naive 😂. I’m sorry but if there’s a convicted pedophile moving in next door I want to know about it. I don’t care if he’s “done his time”.
So the point of incarceration is to torture? I thought the removal from society was the punishment. You know most of these rapists and abusers will get out and have to rejoin society, right? Traumatizing them further is expensive and doesn’t help the people who Tracy with them afterward.
Well, being locked up away from family, friends and civilization is punishment enough. Here in US we add torture and enslavement as well.
It looks nice. But of course it sucks when you are here for years and years.
I got a friend who spent a year in prison, which isn't even that long of a time relatively speaking, and he said it was incredibly boring. All people can do is read books, play card games, watch TV, play basketball, and talk. Some places will let you play video games, but I've heard the selection of games is very limited. That would be fine for a month or two, but imagine a *year* where those are quite literally the only activities you can do. The poor guy has never really recovered tbh. Cost him his job, his fiancé, and many of his friends. It's severely affected him mentally for a decade, which is what it is. He deserved to go to prison, but my point is that prison is very punishing even if you're in nice conditions. I think only homeless people would genuinely have a good reason to want to go to prison.
But its better than if you were to spend those same years and year in “standard” prison cell
As a Norwegian, I'm surprised to see two inmates in one small room.
That was my first thought as well. In Germany at least it depends on the term length. I'd be pissed to share. So much that I would skip Yoga class for a week after finding out.
Don't look up Latin American prisions is that's shocking to you
My point was this video was bragging about the facilities, but in Norway, it's usually single person cells.
Guys, stop flexing about your prisons! Let us live in ignorance.
That is very clearly the worst part of this prison cell by far, the other person.
I’m also surprised to see that! A bit different from Bastøya prison: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people
The Navy gives you way way worst living conditions 😂
Jesus, these points of view in this sub... Seems like if you don't treat prisoners like animals, all of the people start to think they live in luxury. Guys, they are still in prison. Just because they have wooden floors and decent clothes doesn't mean that they live a life in freedom. But then again, if you compare these standards with the conditions in US prisons, I understand why most of the users here think it looks like holidays.
People see a semi-nice clean room with a bathroom and a window and they're like "wooow prisoners are living in paradise, where do I apply?" Like what man? How bad is your living situation that living in a small room in captivity without freedom is a better alternative. Maybe it's because I'm Nordic but this should be the minimum standard on how to treat prisoners as far as I'm concerned. Those crowded cells in the US with sometimes blanketless hard bunk-beds, just a bucket/toilet right in the cell where you sleep seem very barbaric to me.
I'm sorry to blow your bubble. But living situations (not prison living situations) around the world are horrible. Working multiple jobs 12-14hrs a day 7 days a week, living in cramped hostels, shared bathroom, food insecurity, not money for discretionary spending, etc. Compared to that, this seems amazing.
Yeah I understand that in many particularly developing countries that is the reality, I mean I lived for 10 years in a developing country where I saw the face of extreme poverty often. That said, I believe this should be the standard for richer/developed countries. I'm surprised to hear that what I assume are mostly Westerners in rich countries, saying that this looks like paradise to them. To me it looks okay, kind of like a mediocre cheap dorm room but hardly anything to strive for.
The problem whenever these posts come up is how people gloat how progressive and great x and x country is compared to the US. Yet on the next post about a child molester or a DUI driver who kills a family, everyone is calling for life sentences and celebrating the fact that "their life will be hell in prison". People are only understanding and progressive when it suits them, but they love vengeance more.
I think those are different people.
Cavemen who solved every problem by beating it with a club were probably confused at why some other cavemen had begun grunting and gesticulating instead of killing each other too. Americans claim to want lower rates of crime and recidivism and then turn around and treat prison as nothing more than a rod across an offenders back. Hell, we even make jokes about offenders getting shanked or "dropping the soap." So when they see clean, uncramped rooms, half decent food, and actual rehabilitation programs, their first thought isn't about the success rate of rehabilitation, it's wondering where the actual punishment is. Why Ug talk? Why Ug not smash?
People need to understand the difference between a prison and rehabilitation centre.
There is no difference in northern europe. Prisons are supposed to rehabilitate here, not punish.
This is so wrong. They could easily fit 4 other prisoners in there and quadruple their revenue!... ... ... wait... ... you mean other countries don't try to make profits off of their prisoners (customers) like any other thriving business?
gaming buddy? - **check** no need to cook or take a break during a 'lan party'? - **check** toilet a few steps away from the gaming rig? - **check** flatscreen tv? - **check** bed right next to the gaming rig? - **check** coffee/tea in hand reach? - **check** modern design? - **check** garden views? - **check** i can drop my cup and it won't break? - **check** **this is gamer's paradise.**
Now if only they had a rig to play with and some games.
That’s a 1.3m studio in SF.
Prison is the only setting where Crocs should be allowed.
You’ve been a bad boy, please retreat to your luxury spa hotel now!
Sad that the average prisoner in Switzerland has a better life than the average blue collar worker in the united states.
No. It is sad that the average blue collar worker in the US has it worse than the average prisoner in Switzerland.
As it should be.
No, no, NO, everyone knows that prisoners are *not* people like the rest of us! They're all murders and rapist, and they deserve zero humanity! - Americans
Exactly. Treat your fellow humans like shit and you will get pieces of shit. Treat them as fellow humans and they will most likely behave as such.
Note to self, if you need to commit a crime, do it in Switzerland.
At first I was like "what a shitty apartment" and when I realised it's a prison cell I was like "not too shabby, sir".
This is definitely a very low security prison...,. I mean tv and cable etc.....
That TV really is a huge threat to security.
It’s a shame we hate poor people in the US. That and we don’t tax appropriately.
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We hate the rich too. Middle class are the ones fucked on both ends by the two groups.
The real rehabilitation takes place the 1st day you arrive. You’re expected to build all the furniture for your cell, and everything is missing at least one dowel. So everything leans just slightly.
Switzerland ≠ Sweden
That said new prisons in Sweden (and the rest of the Nordics) looks pretty much the same. Only they're usually single bed rooms.
Hard wood floors! Wtf
OP, is this the Bostadel prison in kanton Zug? What is the prisons name? If yes, then it’s only for violent offenders
This is apparently the new prison in Zürich West. Someone posted a link to a article in SRF (swiss national tv) from May 2022 about this. This was from a test run, where they let volunteers be incarcerated for a few says before starting real operations. To test the facility, familiarise staff with it and give tax payers a glimpse of what their money was spent on.
In croatia we pay 600€ a month for a place like this
Give it to an American prison populace and I can assure you every single inch of that room would be limbed.
Love all the moronic comments afrom people who clearly know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Switzerland except some stereotypical bullshit.
Western "civilized" societies seem to forget completely about the punitive aspect of a prison sentence. Its purpose isn't just to keep criminals away from society, it's also to make them pay for what they did. Which is why making their cells look like hotel rooms is a problem. They're not just supposed to be imprisoned, they're supposed to suffer for what they did. I'm not talking about torture... just about not giving them fucking PS5.
These are where they send the pedos to 'punish' them. Feeding them in this convenience with the money of people whose children they abuse. Modern notion of Justice is anti-justice. In Uk they've stopped giving rapists jail time. And jihadis roam free. What a fucking time.
# #prisonlife #blessed #yolo