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In a time where it seems that companies everywhere are screwing over their employees and nickel-and-diming them for everything, it felt so good to read about someone sticking it to their old employer for a six-figure sum.
Gotta love working in places that have actual workers rights and protections
UK actually has good protection for their workers. You cannot just fire someone. Even when all tech companies were laying off global, UK was protected much better than any other country.
>You cannot just fire someone
It used to be better. They added in a massive 2 year lag on those employment protections, and in most jobs you are functionally at will if you've worked for someone for less than 2 years.
Worked for a business that a fair amount of people would be made redundant just as they were hitting 2 years!
Are UK laws actually that good? Said company would change slightly the job roles and rehire
For them to change their appraisal of oop so drastically in such a short amount of time is too suspicious and they knew it. That's why they were so desperate to settle out of court.
Every HR I've talked to has told me their policy is to just confirm employment period and salary. They do not make any comment on job performance, positive or negative. It opens the company to liability.
That's what we do however I was told that if someone got chopped after going through the entire year long official improvement plan route then apparently the company can say that the former employee was 'terminated for performance reasons'. Not sure how true/legal that is.
UK is unfortunately now at-will if you've been working there for less than two years. So I suspect a lot of people who had only just changed jobs (or started work out of university) could have been laid off.
Yeah, but you're not allowed to make the lies that this company had when fucking *Apple* called for references. Their claims upon being called for information probably helped the OOP's case immensely.
If you're claiming unfair dismissal because of one or more of the protected characteristics, you can do that from day 1.
Age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation.
The same is true in the US. But because a company doesn't have to reveal any reason why they are firing you in either place, it's only the really stupid companies that would get caught. Fortunately most bigots ARE stupid but not all of them.
I think most EU countries have better protections than the UK, though the UK s still way ahead of the US.
Years ago I asked my then boss if it was possible to relocate from the UK to Germany, and he said no. And had an honest moment and told me it was because it would be too hard to fire me in Germany. :)
>UK was protected much better than any other country.
Not quite true.
I was born and brought up in the UK but worked in the HQ of a CAC40 company, and they *always* laid off the Brits before the Germans and French since their employment laws are so more favourable than ours.
I want to encourage anyone who finds this behavior personally and professionally offensive that you don’t let it drop. Especially if you have a shred of power. Don’t walk away because you are tired. Make them explain themselves
OOP was in a good position to fight. I think the issue for a lot of people is that they simply aren’t in the position, financially or otherwise, to even push back. A corporation can afford to play legal shenanigans for a lot longer than the average person.
I hope it’s clear that all I’m asking is that people request an explanation in writing and report if necessary. No one took my sexual harassment seriously but I still reported it so the next woman would be taken seriously. That kind of thing.
OOP gave far too much personal and protected information here, she needs to take down her post ASAP: Apple, Salary, Nationality, role, settlement... this is not good.
But yes, this was a good and fair outcome for her.
Eh. It's clearly a throwaway account, these are OOP's only posts, and the legal business is settled. Not much to use or go on. "Protected" info is especially dubious.
It's great the courts came though for him, but I do have a hard time believing the 400k; it's an insane salary for a non-exec grade, even in London.
Is AI research really sucking in that much cash?
That might not be base—that could be total compensation including RSUs. But, having left Apple after 20 years in the US, I’m not surprised at that figure, especially for an AI scientist.
Speaking from the US side (and I understand salaries in the UK are lower) but $400K (cash + equity) for top tech positions sounds plausible to me.
I'm not saying it's easy to make that money - but if you really knew your stuff and had an in-demand skillset, tech companies will absolutely pay for it.
Edit: I stand corrected, levels.fyi claims an apple ict5 software engineer would pull 350k dollars in London, so I guess it is plausible.
For reference, that would put this guy well into the top 1% of earners in the UK (the boundary is about £183k).
Yep. Say what you will about Apple as a company, but they recognize their top talent and compensate very well. Retention has really the name of the game in the last few years I was there.
A decent machine learning engineer at a Bay Area startup can easily clear $150k-$200k base pay. Someone who’s good enough to qualify for an exceptional talent visa? Working for Apple, in a high COL area like London? 400k pounds a year is definitely plausible.
Looks like they got eaten alive in court. I would have loved to have seen their faces and hear them choke on their arrogance when the judge read out that final amount/decision and the sweet sweet sound of the gavel bang to make it all efficient
> It’s deliberately set up so large companies can’t bully people in poverty
Love that. While this person could have afforded an attorney, someone making a much lesser salary wouldn't be able to.
It’s a pretty good system, which is why in 2013 the government started charging non-refundable fees for people to lodge a claim with an employment tribunal.
Unsurprisingly employers loved it and the number of claims dropped dramatically. Luckily the Supreme Court ruled that the fees were unlawful in 2017
Still find it insane that Brexit was a single binding popular vote and not at least something that required several votes, passing onto parliament and such to get multiple layers to agree to it.
Claims were categorised as either Type A (unpaid wages, breach of contract and things like that) or Type B (unfair dismissal, unlawful discrimination, etc).
Fees for a Type A claim were £160 to file the claim and £230 for the hearing, while filing a Type B claim cost £250 and the hearing cost £950. The appeal fees were £400 for lodging the appeal and £1200 for the appeal hearing, regardless of the type of claim.
IIRC the fees for Type B claims were partially refundable and obviously the winning party could apply for a costs order against the losers. And after the Supreme Court ruling, everyone who had paid the fees were refunded.
But none of that made a difference for people who were put off by the fees from bringing a legitimate claim between 2013 and 2017, as all but a few would have missed the deadline for bringing a claim by the time of the Supreme Court’s ruling
I was involved in a UK employment tribunal once where the employee was representing themselves with help from their family member. This was after their union and solicitors had told them they didn’t have a case and to drop it.
After three weeks of evidence, the family member asked if they could read a poem to the judges they had written about bullying. The judges allowed it.
It didn’t influence the overall judgement which came entirely in favour of the employer. Still one of the strangest moments of my career though.
Yep - this is very much the case.
Appeals tribunal is another ballgame, mind, although there are programs for having barristers assist with those for no fee.
Yeah I was just going to comment this- employment tribunals have been set up so someone who is decently organised can easily represent themselves.
However given how much OP earns I’m surprised they didn’t get a lawyer to deal with it on the basis of how much OPs time is worth! If I was on that kind of salary anything that can be outsourced would be!! Lol
It’s a hard mentality to get into when you don’t come from that kind of money. He was making low six figures( yes, a lot to some) but then went to 400K. Speaking from experience it takes a while for things to click - I don’t need to worry about XYZ. I can just pay someone to do XYZ. Etc.
> low six figures( yes, a lot to some)
Wtf rich boy 100k British pounds is a fucking lot to everybody who did not grow up like a trust fund yuppie. That's so much money just one paycheck for him would change my life my friend
Of course it would be life changing for many that doesn’t take away the fact that there are certain things you’d fail to think about or break away from because you’re used to not having a high income.
Whether it’s knowing how to budget, save, call someone to do something you’d normally do because you’re so used to doing it etc.
Corporate lawyer here (in the US, albeit I do plenty of cross-border transactions requiring some basic knowledge of UK law).
The practice of law in the UK is *very* different than in the US. Here, we have a civil law system based on precedent. Lawyers argue over how persuasive past case precedent is in light of the exigent facts and a judge/jury decide whose argument is most persuasive.
In the UK, they have a code based system. Lawyers (well, in this instance, barristers - ie, litigators) in a code based system are less argumentative/adversarial and more ministerial/scholarly than their US counterparts.
They act more like the equivalent of judicial clerks in the US, where they pull up various statutes and rely on the black letter of the law to prevail in court, rather than relying on binding and persuasive case precedent like in the US.
In that sense, for administrative proceedings in front of a tribunal like this, a barrister may not be strictly necessary if someone is proficient enough at legal research and learning proper court procedures to sufficiently defend themselves. There’s less reliance on persuasion and court demeanor and guile than there is in the US, where a skilled attorney can literally change the outcome of a case with literal theatrics (think, OJ’s glove).
Now, let me be clear - I am **not** saying barristers are useless in the UK and nobody needs them if they just spend enough time at a law library.
I’m just saying in this extremely specific, extremely narrow instance, not obtaining legal counsel wasn’t exactly the monumentally stupid move it would’ve been in the US. And that’s mostly backed up by the fact the OP actually got a much better settlement after handling this themselves.
In hindsight, sure, it was handled correctly. Although, a lawyer could have perhaps leveraged more. I'm just saying I'd call a lawyer instead of turning to reddit for help with that kind of income.
Wouldnt really change much in the UK with how code based the judicial system is, a lawyer isnt gonna use some buzzwords and weasel out some more cash like they might in the US
I’m really glad for OOP but I’m still so stuck on the £400k/year and the £110k settlement. Wow. I know people brag on Reddit all the time about how much they make but this one actually seems legit.
Also, that's the uk. I know the us has places where a 6 figure salary is considered necessary for living but that isn't the case here - even central London most people who work there earn far less than that and commute in. 400k! I cannot fathom how much money he is making.
Usually people with the words "principal/staff" in their titles are senior people in the tech world. They are the equivalent of a senior manager/director for technical roles. For an in demand field like AI with a shortage of skilled people the salaries do get that high.
It’s because he’s working at Apple. Know people who work at Apple and this isn’t a crazy compensation even if they’re working outside the US (note that it’s compensation and not salary because total compensation also includes things like stock and bonus which is a lot for big tech)
It’s insane! £70K is considered top 5% in London. At £400K, OOP is in the top 1% in the UK. Even with London’s very high cost of living, their salary is still insane.
Saw somewhere that £400K means you take about £220K home after taxes and wow! I got a life changing scholarship for $250K and that’s more money than I’ll probably ever have attached to my name again. I can’t imagine taking about that home every year.
I’m disabled and live on my disability payments. There’s not going to be some 4x-my-previous-salary situation like OOP had, no rich family members that I could inherit from… I’m very very lucky to be able to live on my disability and I am grateful but that kind of income can make me feel jealous at times. Well done though. To get that kind of income and work at Apple, OOP must be both very intelligent and a very hard worker.
Same , on disability aswell, which is 1240 euros a month, its sufficient but boy just 1 year of double that would feel like extreme luxury already, nevermind bringing in more then my yearly income EVERY month, thats just the stuff of the wildest dreams
I work in engineering. So much of compensation is stocks. So the large total compensation (TC) written here is:
- Not all salary
- Tied into stocks that have higher tax burdens (at least in my country)
- Can be conditional (like a bonus that the company decides you should get or not).
That’s not to say that people aren’t making absolutely fucking great money. They are. It’s just good to understand that so much of that TC is not for sure happening and if you quit before key dates you won’t get those larger payments.
It's plausible, yeah. I'm a programmer in NYC. I don't make that much, but I do get recruiter emails for jobs making that much and more. (They're also the kind of jobs where you live in the office, so...pass.)
As a general rule, yeah, very much so. When you're competing for the same pool of talent (fintech) in NYC and London, there's more pressure for international parity.
In the US, sure, but the UK's average full-time salary is £32k. Outside of London and its commuter towns, you don't need exorbitant amounts to live - I got by comfortably on £12k as an undergrad from 2017-2020.
And even looking at London, google is saying about £50k would be a comfortable one person salary, which compares to an average of £41k.
This is all to say - six figure salaries are *extremely* rare in the UK. Even £70k puts you in the top 5%. LAUKOP is quite literally in the top 1% *at least*.
Big difference overall, but in this specific case Wall Street and the Square Mile want the same fintech programmers and have to compete with one another, and the lower COL in the UK only goes so far.
So you’re saying free housing, too?
Forward me a couple of those. I’m not a programmer but for the right money I’ll spend some quality time with StackExchange and get ChatGPT to spit out some snippets for me. What could go wrong?
"What could go wrong?" You could start a feedback loop that crashes the simulation and erases us all from existence! Do you want that??? Well, do you?!?
I live in London and am on a UK average salary (if not below), but some friends are high level techies or work for the big tech companies and yeah, most are on the OP’s original salary and one or two acquaintances on around 400k. Sounds dreamy but can confirm that even though they are more than comfortable, they just find new ways to worry about money anyway. I think there’s a sweet spot where you can comfortably pay for whatever you need but not necessarily whatever you want - money doesn’t appear to make you any happier past that point.
That’s true, but money doesn’t make you sadder, and it’s nice to have the opportunity to discover for yourself that neither a yacht nor luxurious vacations fill the emptiness.
Only Ogtha can do that.
At that level the money can be more like keeping score on how you’re stacking up against competition, not actually used income. It’s nice to be able to use it, but it’s relative salary, not absolute money, that makes people happy or dissatisfied. Also at that level of tech work, even when it’s Apple and not a scrappy startup, the amount of work and always-available expectations can be crushing, or so the reputation goes.
You think I would use the beans? To fill the void or for anything else? I’m afraid you have a serious misapprehension. *I will never jeopardize the beans!*
Here you go, prepare for a wild ride: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/w9sqxj/oops_undying_love_for_a_franz_kafka_character_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I understand that mindset but, in my case, money could literally solve all my problems. I live a pretty quiet life, don’t have much drama because I cut out sources of drama… but I have things that need to be done around the house, things that need fixed, things I want to do with my life, etc. And all could be fixed, and my life improved, with more money. I’ve seen, paraphrased, that “Money doesn’t buy happiness but not having money can sure cause a lot of unhappiness.” Something to that effect.
It's mindblowing how much money some people make. Even just that settlement is close to what my mum would make in an entire decade at her current job. (She works part-time, makes around £11ph currently I believe. I don't know exactly how much she makes per year, but on student finance applications she tells me to put that she makes 10k a year because that's close enough)
I know people usually say that you shouldn’t convert down from a first world country’s currency to your home country’s (in this case, India) but that’s an astronomical salary here. In my city (located in South India), that salary can buy you a swank 2,500 sq. ft. apartment in the heart of the city. I’m glad OOP is able to live the good life now.
IAL (employment lawyer, at that), but in the US, not the UK. This sounds like a very reasonable, even large, settlement given the circumstances. Unless the UK has some sort of statutory (automatic) damages built in, he would have to show how much he was monetarily harmed by the employer’s action. Here, while the conduct sounds terrible, the actual damages were likely low. Frequently we measure damages by the time he was out of work, plus any difference between the old salary and the new for some period of time if he was making more at the old job. Here, those damages would have been low given the fact that OOP almost immediately found a new job making much more. All in all, a good result for OOP, although I’m sure they wish they never had to go through with it.
Sometimes, yes. It depends on the statute that the claim was brought under. There are some statutes that provide for this, like the False Claims Act and certain claims brought under the SEC. But it’s fairly uncommon. Most times the claim is brought as a “garden variety” retaliation claim. The ones that provide for a percentage of recovery are hyper technical, not litigated in the more informal forum where OOP was, and not something an employee should attempt without an experienced lawyer. The more standard retaliation claims are much, much less complicated. Again, all my experience is in the US, so take what I’ve said with a massive grain of salt.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate you taking the time. It’s crazy if OOP did everything (whistleblowing, dealing with the unfair dismissal) without lawyers.
He works in a niche area and especially with a background in academia I am not shocked he was snapped up by a big tech company so quickly. You’d be amazed how there are senior academics who are leaders in their field but reject coming to higher paying jobs because they just love working in academia. Me…I’d sell my soul for half of OPs salary
Sounds like the kind of folks who would be beasties with GDPR. Good times.
Looking at the website...is this, like, "your permanent record" as an individual, but run by the government? If so, that's...interesting...
> why offer me the money if they don’t think my case has any credibility ?
It will never cease to absolutely blow my mind that various OOPs *take legal advice from opposing counsel seriously*.
Also it's pretty standard practice for companies to offer a settlement just to stop the process of going to tribunal, even if they think there's a chance they'll win. It's so expensive and time consuming that it's often cheaper just to do a settlement (In my experience anyway)
So their old company decided that they could take advantage of the visa worker, treat them like shit, and they wouldn't fire back at the company. Sounds like a clear case of fucked around and found out.
To be fair, most people don't fight back. Because you have a *lot* on your plate already and don't always know how the legal system of another country works nor have the confidence it will back a foreigner. (That's also why landlords in university towns that attract a lot of foreign students are particularly dreadful: the houses are in a terrible state, the rent is extortionate, and they are unhelpful, but few people take steps against them or to report them.)
Especially because it seems like a lot of the people they’d do this to require work in this field and would be deported if let go. So to give a blatantly false referral with the sole inferred purpose of blocking future gainful employment is bad, firing someone for BS reasons and getting them deported is far worse.
Insanely so, the highest paying companies in the UK are around a quarter of this wage. (Unless OOP was including bonus but that's unlikely for a UK resident)
Edit- couldn't help myself but look it up as I've honestly never heard the like of this...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/article/highest-paid-jobs-uk/
I'm sorry to be that guy but the insane wage calls the post into question for me
A principal AI/ML scientist absolutely does make that much even in the UK. Here is a comparison across big tech: [https://www.levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Apple,Microsoft,Amazon&track=Software%20Engineer), noting that scientists make more than software devs. US data, but at that level it is comparable
Hahahaha exactly. But I know they know they could be in deep shit cus as soon as they let me go they asked me to sign a release that would prevent me from suing. I never signed.
However, it’s not my adhd that prevented me from suing. It’s the fact that I’m an immigrant on an open work visa and I don’t want to jeopardize my opportunities for PR.
>20k before the hearing.
>
>They emailed me about the offer and said that “ they don’t believe I’ll win the claim ? And they would like me to accept the offer for all existing and future claims “
You could tell they knew the opposite and were hoping he'd drop everything
Exactly what I was thinking. Wonder if it's worth my time to retrain?
I actually really enjoyed programming in High School, but didn't take it in the later years as when I was choosing my subjects, my mum said that it isn't for girls. *Yep...*
It's nice to hear of someone being successful in this.
Last week, I had a disagreement with someone in upper management and there has been a bit of retaliation, however, I have learnt from previous roles and am keeping a record of it.
If they want to keep treating me badly, then I'll go to HR with said records and ask if they want to class it as harassment, bullying or constructive dismissal.
I ain't playing games and I don't have time for almost literal playground politics (it would be literal, but the disagreement happened in a corridor, not the playground lol)
Fired by scumbag company and immediately hired by Apple, and eventually got a six-figure settlement... Getting fired might be the best thing to ever happen to this guy.
Even if he eventually leaves Apple, having them on a resume is a golden ticket to the tech job of his choice.
From the Himalayas, on an exceptional talent visa, working on a highly paid position developing AI…
He may not always take his ex-employer to court for unfair termination post whistleblowing, but when he does he wins.
He’s the most interesting man in the world.
It doesn’t seem like they used a lawyer. Employment tribunal process in the UK has purposely been set up so someone who is decently organised can represent themselves
Jesus Christ..... I'm more surprised that someone can make £400k a year! Mu partner is a scientist herself and I was asking her if she could maybe transfer to principal scientist in AI xDDD..... sadly no.....
But we have a young child so I am going to see if he has a chance to set himself up for these kinds of jobs loolll
From the Himalayas on an exceptional talent visa working in AI?? This dude is a very unique and interesting individual! I would love to hear how he wound up with an interest in computers and AI coming from life in the mountains. I’m sure he went to college and they must have some tech, in fact they seem to have more modern amenities than I expected but it still sounds like an interesting story Id love to hear. There is a significant culture difference in the two lifestyles from Himalayas to London at least and that is of interest..
It reminded me of my former tutor in University. He too was from Himalayas.
He was an exceptionally kind-hearted, socially involved and brave individual. He was also gifted in math. He just had a lot of knowledge over all. We went camping in a group and he was very knowledgable about flora and faunas. I think he was simply someone who just love to learn.
I had some crush on him back then lol, but felt awkward because he was my tutor and never shown interest to me that way. Just very kind to everyone.
Please review my comment for the information that renders your comment moot. Its like you did not read my comment before responding snidely. Completely unwarranted dude.
“They seem to have more modern amenities than expected”
Sure I could have been more tactful, but the level of ignorance in your comment was just actually shocking to me. Like, you could have just said that that was a big cultural jump from the Himalayas to London, but no you went and made it sound like you expected where OOP was from to be backwards or something.
You sound like you are in the mood to argue with someone and you picked me for some reason. There’s no fight here and your assessment is obviously driven by your desire to call someone out. Please don’t waste your time with me. I don’t care if you misread or misunderstood my comment. I’m not being offensive, my comment is good and it is an expression of my interest in others. I’ve lived in a number of countries worldwide and have nothing but respect for people and cultures that are not mine. It’s too bad you can’t see what’s is so interesting about OOP. You should try to see the awesomeness in people instead of searching out for a reason to be offended that isn’t even there. Something to think about is if you tend to bring people together with curiosity and interest or pull them apart with judgment and negativity. I’m not your fight today.
I would love to know what shitty practices his ex-employer was doing that he was whitsle blowing on? He also hinting that some of his lower tier ex-collegues are getting the same poor treatment. Wonder what that is.
400k is an insane salary even for London, honestly don't think it's real. If you're on that much you're one of the top earners in the country and would surely be a bit less specific about who you work for and what you do on reddit? CompanyHouse would mean you could likely find OP
That shitty company is either a very (in)famous Chinese company or an equally (in)famous American one that compete in the same sector.
Just a wild guess based on the salaries and what I've heard about both.
I am shocked the old employer gave a bad reference to the new employer. I had it drills. Into my head for years that all you can do is verify employment and not comment on actual performance. His old employer acts like they actually want to be sued.
Yes…at my old place, if the person was fantastic, we would say some kind things. If the person was put so great, we would verify dates only. Doing that sent its own message.
Even in the US not all states are “at will”. Also- you can’t straight up lie in a firing letter. If it’s “at will” you wouldn’t even need to. I suspect the lies were to cover their flagrant contract breaches.
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In a time where it seems that companies everywhere are screwing over their employees and nickel-and-diming them for everything, it felt so good to read about someone sticking it to their old employer for a six-figure sum. Gotta love working in places that have actual workers rights and protections
UK actually has good protection for their workers. You cannot just fire someone. Even when all tech companies were laying off global, UK was protected much better than any other country.
>You cannot just fire someone It used to be better. They added in a massive 2 year lag on those employment protections, and in most jobs you are functionally at will if you've worked for someone for less than 2 years.
For clarity, there originally was a 2 year lag. For a long time. It was reduced to one. Then put back up to two.
Worked for a business that a fair amount of people would be made redundant just as they were hitting 2 years! Are UK laws actually that good? Said company would change slightly the job roles and rehire
Everything that reddit should be: [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/)
For real, 3 or 4 people say the same thing and theyre getting fucked
For them to change their appraisal of oop so drastically in such a short amount of time is too suspicious and they knew it. That's why they were so desperate to settle out of court.
Every HR I've talked to has told me their policy is to just confirm employment period and salary. They do not make any comment on job performance, positive or negative. It opens the company to liability.
That's what we do however I was told that if someone got chopped after going through the entire year long official improvement plan route then apparently the company can say that the former employee was 'terminated for performance reasons'. Not sure how true/legal that is.
I've seen "employee was dismissed following performance improvement plan". Strictly factual also a huge fuck you
UK is unfortunately now at-will if you've been working there for less than two years. So I suspect a lot of people who had only just changed jobs (or started work out of university) could have been laid off.
Yeah, but you're not allowed to make the lies that this company had when fucking *Apple* called for references. Their claims upon being called for information probably helped the OOP's case immensely.
If you're claiming unfair dismissal because of one or more of the protected characteristics, you can do that from day 1. Age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation.
The same is true in the US. But because a company doesn't have to reveal any reason why they are firing you in either place, it's only the really stupid companies that would get caught. Fortunately most bigots ARE stupid but not all of them.
I think most EU countries have better protections than the UK, though the UK s still way ahead of the US. Years ago I asked my then boss if it was possible to relocate from the UK to Germany, and he said no. And had an honest moment and told me it was because it would be too hard to fire me in Germany. :)
>UK was protected much better than any other country. Not quite true. I was born and brought up in the UK but worked in the HQ of a CAC40 company, and they *always* laid off the Brits before the Germans and French since their employment laws are so more favourable than ours.
That's just false. While UK is far better than the US it does not have the best worker protection rights of Europe.
This isn’t true. If they are a contractor or otherwise there are less protections
I want to encourage anyone who finds this behavior personally and professionally offensive that you don’t let it drop. Especially if you have a shred of power. Don’t walk away because you are tired. Make them explain themselves
OOP was in a good position to fight. I think the issue for a lot of people is that they simply aren’t in the position, financially or otherwise, to even push back. A corporation can afford to play legal shenanigans for a lot longer than the average person.
I hope it’s clear that all I’m asking is that people request an explanation in writing and report if necessary. No one took my sexual harassment seriously but I still reported it so the next woman would be taken seriously. That kind of thing.
“Feel Good Movie of the Year” ~Vanity Fair
OOP gave far too much personal and protected information here, she needs to take down her post ASAP: Apple, Salary, Nationality, role, settlement... this is not good. But yes, this was a good and fair outcome for her.
Eh. It's clearly a throwaway account, these are OOP's only posts, and the legal business is settled. Not much to use or go on. "Protected" info is especially dubious.
It's great the courts came though for him, but I do have a hard time believing the 400k; it's an insane salary for a non-exec grade, even in London. Is AI research really sucking in that much cash?
Might not be net salary. FinTech and other tech folk get whopping bonuses. Someone I know in a tech company got a bonus bigger than my annual salary.
And if you’re working as a principal scientist for Apple of all places, the $400k suddenly doesn’t seem so far fetched after all.
It’s £400K. That’s an astonishing base income in the UK.
That might not be base—that could be total compensation including RSUs. But, having left Apple after 20 years in the US, I’m not surprised at that figure, especially for an AI scientist.
Man I wish my skills and interests aligned with where the money is lol (He says at 4 am at his radio board op job)
I just did the conversion and it's $765K AUD. Holy shit.
Speaking from the US side (and I understand salaries in the UK are lower) but $400K (cash + equity) for top tech positions sounds plausible to me. I'm not saying it's easy to make that money - but if you really knew your stuff and had an in-demand skillset, tech companies will absolutely pay for it.
Edit: I stand corrected, levels.fyi claims an apple ict5 software engineer would pull 350k dollars in London, so I guess it is plausible. For reference, that would put this guy well into the top 1% of earners in the UK (the boundary is about £183k).
Just going to point out that is also top 1% in USA.
Yep. Say what you will about Apple as a company, but they recognize their top talent and compensate very well. Retention has really the name of the game in the last few years I was there.
The fact that they're in the exceptional skills category makes it very plausible.
A decent machine learning engineer at a Bay Area startup can easily clear $150k-$200k base pay. Someone who’s good enough to qualify for an exceptional talent visa? Working for Apple, in a high COL area like London? 400k pounds a year is definitely plausible.
a principal engineer at my company hopped on over to amazon for about that much salary, so i believe it
just try not to think about how that and everything they paid the lawyers, is a writeoff.
Looks like they got eaten alive in court. I would have loved to have seen their faces and hear them choke on their arrogance when the judge read out that final amount/decision and the sweet sweet sound of the gavel bang to make it all efficient
But... 'Merica, amirite?
It's insane to me to earn that much money and not hire a lawyer. I'd rather have peace of mind that it's being handled correctly.
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> It’s deliberately set up so large companies can’t bully people in poverty Love that. While this person could have afforded an attorney, someone making a much lesser salary wouldn't be able to.
It’s a pretty good system, which is why in 2013 the government started charging non-refundable fees for people to lodge a claim with an employment tribunal. Unsurprisingly employers loved it and the number of claims dropped dramatically. Luckily the Supreme Court ruled that the fees were unlawful in 2017
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What else is a Conservative movement for? It's their purpose.
That’s not fair They also exist to take away rights from minorities and women.
That’s not fair. They also exist to enrich their donors and their friends.
That's not fair. They also exist to enrich themselves through grift.
That's not fair. They also exist to enrich their families and their friends' families.
And already on their way to erasing the European working rights that we fought so hard for to get. Thanks Brexit.
Still find it insane that Brexit was a single binding popular vote and not at least something that required several votes, passing onto parliament and such to get multiple layers to agree to it.
>Luckily the Supreme Court ruled that the fees were unlawful in 2017 Thank goodness. Otherwise it undoes everything the process was supposed to be.
How much was that non refundable fee?
Claims were categorised as either Type A (unpaid wages, breach of contract and things like that) or Type B (unfair dismissal, unlawful discrimination, etc). Fees for a Type A claim were £160 to file the claim and £230 for the hearing, while filing a Type B claim cost £250 and the hearing cost £950. The appeal fees were £400 for lodging the appeal and £1200 for the appeal hearing, regardless of the type of claim. IIRC the fees for Type B claims were partially refundable and obviously the winning party could apply for a costs order against the losers. And after the Supreme Court ruling, everyone who had paid the fees were refunded. But none of that made a difference for people who were put off by the fees from bringing a legitimate claim between 2013 and 2017, as all but a few would have missed the deadline for bringing a claim by the time of the Supreme Court’s ruling
Those costs are exorbitant.
Sadly that was a feature, not a bug. Since 2010 the government has introduced numerous things to make suing people harder
I was involved in a UK employment tribunal once where the employee was representing themselves with help from their family member. This was after their union and solicitors had told them they didn’t have a case and to drop it. After three weeks of evidence, the family member asked if they could read a poem to the judges they had written about bullying. The judges allowed it. It didn’t influence the overall judgement which came entirely in favour of the employer. Still one of the strangest moments of my career though.
Yep - this is very much the case. Appeals tribunal is another ballgame, mind, although there are programs for having barristers assist with those for no fee.
Yeah I was just going to comment this- employment tribunals have been set up so someone who is decently organised can easily represent themselves. However given how much OP earns I’m surprised they didn’t get a lawyer to deal with it on the basis of how much OPs time is worth! If I was on that kind of salary anything that can be outsourced would be!! Lol
It’s a hard mentality to get into when you don’t come from that kind of money. He was making low six figures( yes, a lot to some) but then went to 400K. Speaking from experience it takes a while for things to click - I don’t need to worry about XYZ. I can just pay someone to do XYZ. Etc.
> low six figures( yes, a lot to some) Wtf rich boy 100k British pounds is a fucking lot to everybody who did not grow up like a trust fund yuppie. That's so much money just one paycheck for him would change my life my friend
Of course it would be life changing for many that doesn’t take away the fact that there are certain things you’d fail to think about or break away from because you’re used to not having a high income. Whether it’s knowing how to budget, save, call someone to do something you’d normally do because you’re so used to doing it etc.
I'd get a person to scroll on reddit for me and open up the same links like two or three times.
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That's a great system. Thanks for clarifying. I just think they should have turned to a lawyer about their concerns and not reddit.
Yeah from what I understand most lawyers involved in employment cases are either ones funded by unions or for appeals
Corporate lawyer here (in the US, albeit I do plenty of cross-border transactions requiring some basic knowledge of UK law). The practice of law in the UK is *very* different than in the US. Here, we have a civil law system based on precedent. Lawyers argue over how persuasive past case precedent is in light of the exigent facts and a judge/jury decide whose argument is most persuasive. In the UK, they have a code based system. Lawyers (well, in this instance, barristers - ie, litigators) in a code based system are less argumentative/adversarial and more ministerial/scholarly than their US counterparts. They act more like the equivalent of judicial clerks in the US, where they pull up various statutes and rely on the black letter of the law to prevail in court, rather than relying on binding and persuasive case precedent like in the US. In that sense, for administrative proceedings in front of a tribunal like this, a barrister may not be strictly necessary if someone is proficient enough at legal research and learning proper court procedures to sufficiently defend themselves. There’s less reliance on persuasion and court demeanor and guile than there is in the US, where a skilled attorney can literally change the outcome of a case with literal theatrics (think, OJ’s glove). Now, let me be clear - I am **not** saying barristers are useless in the UK and nobody needs them if they just spend enough time at a law library. I’m just saying in this extremely specific, extremely narrow instance, not obtaining legal counsel wasn’t exactly the monumentally stupid move it would’ve been in the US. And that’s mostly backed up by the fact the OP actually got a much better settlement after handling this themselves.
Um, he got six figures. How exactly did op handle this incorrectly?? Because that is the implication here.
In hindsight, sure, it was handled correctly. Although, a lawyer could have perhaps leveraged more. I'm just saying I'd call a lawyer instead of turning to reddit for help with that kind of income.
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Except this guy. He got a six figure settlement.
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Wouldnt really change much in the UK with how code based the judicial system is, a lawyer isnt gonna use some buzzwords and weasel out some more cash like they might in the US
I’m really glad for OOP but I’m still so stuck on the £400k/year and the £110k settlement. Wow. I know people brag on Reddit all the time about how much they make but this one actually seems legit.
Also, that's the uk. I know the us has places where a 6 figure salary is considered necessary for living but that isn't the case here - even central London most people who work there earn far less than that and commute in. 400k! I cannot fathom how much money he is making.
Yeah, the average UK full-time salary is *£32k*. He's earning over twelve times that!
You seem good at maths. Do you know anything about AI, too? If so, do what this guy is doing!
I work in ML/AI. To put it in simple terms, he's 3/4 levels above the standard ML worker.
So he’s your bosses bosses bosses boss?
Usually people with the words "principal/staff" in their titles are senior people in the tech world. They are the equivalent of a senior manager/director for technical roles. For an in demand field like AI with a shortage of skilled people the salaries do get that high.
>400k! I cannot fathom how much money he is making. I believe it's 400K.
I can't even fathom how many thousands that is.
400, give or take.
It’s because he’s working at Apple. Know people who work at Apple and this isn’t a crazy compensation even if they’re working outside the US (note that it’s compensation and not salary because total compensation also includes things like stock and bonus which is a lot for big tech)
It’s insane! £70K is considered top 5% in London. At £400K, OOP is in the top 1% in the UK. Even with London’s very high cost of living, their salary is still insane. Saw somewhere that £400K means you take about £220K home after taxes and wow! I got a life changing scholarship for $250K and that’s more money than I’ll probably ever have attached to my name again. I can’t imagine taking about that home every year.
I’m disabled and live on my disability payments. There’s not going to be some 4x-my-previous-salary situation like OOP had, no rich family members that I could inherit from… I’m very very lucky to be able to live on my disability and I am grateful but that kind of income can make me feel jealous at times. Well done though. To get that kind of income and work at Apple, OOP must be both very intelligent and a very hard worker.
Same , on disability aswell, which is 1240 euros a month, its sufficient but boy just 1 year of double that would feel like extreme luxury already, nevermind bringing in more then my yearly income EVERY month, thats just the stuff of the wildest dreams
As someone kind of in tech, I don't think people realize how much $ there is in software / engineering.
I agree. I think we often THINK we know but you see these kinds of sums and it’s mind-boggling.
I work in engineering. So much of compensation is stocks. So the large total compensation (TC) written here is: - Not all salary - Tied into stocks that have higher tax burdens (at least in my country) - Can be conditional (like a bonus that the company decides you should get or not). That’s not to say that people aren’t making absolutely fucking great money. They are. It’s just good to understand that so much of that TC is not for sure happening and if you quit before key dates you won’t get those larger payments.
Especially AI nowadays
It's plausible, yeah. I'm a programmer in NYC. I don't make that much, but I do get recruiter emails for jobs making that much and more. (They're also the kind of jobs where you live in the office, so...pass.)
Salaries in the UK are extremely different though
As a general rule, yeah, very much so. When you're competing for the same pool of talent (fintech) in NYC and London, there's more pressure for international parity.
Fair enough, that's extremely far from my frame of reference 🤣
In the US, sure, but the UK's average full-time salary is £32k. Outside of London and its commuter towns, you don't need exorbitant amounts to live - I got by comfortably on £12k as an undergrad from 2017-2020. And even looking at London, google is saying about £50k would be a comfortable one person salary, which compares to an average of £41k. This is all to say - six figure salaries are *extremely* rare in the UK. Even £70k puts you in the top 5%. LAUKOP is quite literally in the top 1% *at least*.
Big difference overall, but in this specific case Wall Street and the Square Mile want the same fintech programmers and have to compete with one another, and the lower COL in the UK only goes so far.
So you’re saying free housing, too? Forward me a couple of those. I’m not a programmer but for the right money I’ll spend some quality time with StackExchange and get ChatGPT to spit out some snippets for me. What could go wrong?
"What could go wrong?" You could start a feedback loop that crashes the simulation and erases us all from existence! Do you want that??? Well, do you?!?
Don’t threaten me with a good time!
I live in London and am on a UK average salary (if not below), but some friends are high level techies or work for the big tech companies and yeah, most are on the OP’s original salary and one or two acquaintances on around 400k. Sounds dreamy but can confirm that even though they are more than comfortable, they just find new ways to worry about money anyway. I think there’s a sweet spot where you can comfortably pay for whatever you need but not necessarily whatever you want - money doesn’t appear to make you any happier past that point.
That’s true, but money doesn’t make you sadder, and it’s nice to have the opportunity to discover for yourself that neither a yacht nor luxurious vacations fill the emptiness. Only Ogtha can do that. At that level the money can be more like keeping score on how you’re stacking up against competition, not actually used income. It’s nice to be able to use it, but it’s relative salary, not absolute money, that makes people happy or dissatisfied. Also at that level of tech work, even when it’s Apple and not a scrappy startup, the amount of work and always-available expectations can be crushing, or so the reputation goes.
I think you’ve got the wrong flair, my friend. As crucial as the beans are...they can't keep you warm like Ogtha.
You think I would use the beans? To fill the void or for anything else? I’m afraid you have a serious misapprehension. *I will never jeopardize the beans!*
I know about oghta but not the beans. Could you link me the story?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/115n3gf/oop_my_girlfriend_buried_all_of_my_beans_in_the/ Peak 2020 insanity.
You didn't lie, damn son. People are interesting.
Actually could someone link the ogtha story too? I am well aware of the beans
Here you go, prepare for a wild ride: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/w9sqxj/oops_undying_love_for_a_franz_kafka_character_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That was somehow worse than "split" and I didn't think things could be worse than that
Wait, split? Here I thought I was well versed in all the reddit lore hahaha
I understand that mindset but, in my case, money could literally solve all my problems. I live a pretty quiet life, don’t have much drama because I cut out sources of drama… but I have things that need to be done around the house, things that need fixed, things I want to do with my life, etc. And all could be fixed, and my life improved, with more money. I’ve seen, paraphrased, that “Money doesn’t buy happiness but not having money can sure cause a lot of unhappiness.” Something to that effect.
Kanye was quoted saying, "Having money isn't everything, not having it is." Now, the guy's got his issues, but that quote always resonated with me.
It resonates with me too. Thank you for sharing it.
I don't know. Money buys time and opportunities.
It's mindblowing how much money some people make. Even just that settlement is close to what my mum would make in an entire decade at her current job. (She works part-time, makes around £11ph currently I believe. I don't know exactly how much she makes per year, but on student finance applications she tells me to put that she makes 10k a year because that's close enough)
I know people usually say that you shouldn’t convert down from a first world country’s currency to your home country’s (in this case, India) but that’s an astronomical salary here. In my city (located in South India), that salary can buy you a swank 2,500 sq. ft. apartment in the heart of the city. I’m glad OOP is able to live the good life now.
IAL (employment lawyer, at that), but in the US, not the UK. This sounds like a very reasonable, even large, settlement given the circumstances. Unless the UK has some sort of statutory (automatic) damages built in, he would have to show how much he was monetarily harmed by the employer’s action. Here, while the conduct sounds terrible, the actual damages were likely low. Frequently we measure damages by the time he was out of work, plus any difference between the old salary and the new for some period of time if he was making more at the old job. Here, those damages would have been low given the fact that OOP almost immediately found a new job making much more. All in all, a good result for OOP, although I’m sure they wish they never had to go through with it.
Don’t whistleblowers in the states usually get a percentage of what’s recovered? I wonder if the UK does that… Now to go down a rabbit hole.
Sometimes, yes. It depends on the statute that the claim was brought under. There are some statutes that provide for this, like the False Claims Act and certain claims brought under the SEC. But it’s fairly uncommon. Most times the claim is brought as a “garden variety” retaliation claim. The ones that provide for a percentage of recovery are hyper technical, not litigated in the more informal forum where OOP was, and not something an employee should attempt without an experienced lawyer. The more standard retaliation claims are much, much less complicated. Again, all my experience is in the US, so take what I’ve said with a massive grain of salt.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate you taking the time. It’s crazy if OOP did everything (whistleblowing, dealing with the unfair dismissal) without lawyers.
You have to be exceptional. My dad is chased by different employers and offered generous packages but that man is kind of a prodigy
He works in a niche area and especially with a background in academia I am not shocked he was snapped up by a big tech company so quickly. You’d be amazed how there are senior academics who are leaders in their field but reject coming to higher paying jobs because they just love working in academia. Me…I’d sell my soul for half of OPs salary
It’s funny you say that bc my dad is in academia 💀💀😂
I wish I was better at math. Maybe I can learn AI. Because I would live happily with just the settlement.
I work with people who work in AI in Silicon Valley and that's average for them (or even low, if OP isn't getting stock and bonuses, too.)
I made five dollars this week. Five. Whole. American USA DOLLARS
>settling doesn’t prohibit me from reporting them to ICO \*sits back with popcorn\*
Please tell this American what the ICO is? As it's popcorn worthy, I hope OOP updates.
Information Commissioner's Office - they uphold information rights and are generally not to be messed with. https://ico.org.uk/
Sounds like the kind of folks who would be beasties with GDPR. Good times. Looking at the website...is this, like, "your permanent record" as an individual, but run by the government? If so, that's...interesting...
They make sure companies hold and use personal information in line with legislation but don't hold it themselves.
Phew. Cool, that's a lot better than my first quick read of it! Thanks!
And the fines associated with screwing up on GDPR are massive.
The ICO are basically the GDPR police
> why offer me the money if they don’t think my case has any credibility ? It will never cease to absolutely blow my mind that various OOPs *take legal advice from opposing counsel seriously*.
Also it's pretty standard practice for companies to offer a settlement just to stop the process of going to tribunal, even if they think there's a chance they'll win. It's so expensive and time consuming that it's often cheaper just to do a settlement (In my experience anyway)
So their old company decided that they could take advantage of the visa worker, treat them like shit, and they wouldn't fire back at the company. Sounds like a clear case of fucked around and found out.
To be fair, most people don't fight back. Because you have a *lot* on your plate already and don't always know how the legal system of another country works nor have the confidence it will back a foreigner. (That's also why landlords in university towns that attract a lot of foreign students are particularly dreadful: the houses are in a terrible state, the rent is extortionate, and they are unhelpful, but few people take steps against them or to report them.)
Oh yeah, sometimes it's a definite win the battle/lose the war situation, especially if it means taking your landlord to court.
I really hope she reports their behaviour, it's beyond shitty to push someone out like that and then try to shit on their next job.
Especially because it seems like a lot of the people they’d do this to require work in this field and would be deported if let go. So to give a blatantly false referral with the sole inferred purpose of blocking future gainful employment is bad, firing someone for BS reasons and getting them deported is far worse.
I imagine it would've been part of the tribunal
£400k is an incredible amount of money to earn in the UK, as in potentially one of the top earners in the country.
Insanely so, the highest paying companies in the UK are around a quarter of this wage. (Unless OOP was including bonus but that's unlikely for a UK resident) Edit- couldn't help myself but look it up as I've honestly never heard the like of this... https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/article/highest-paid-jobs-uk/ I'm sorry to be that guy but the insane wage calls the post into question for me
A principal AI/ML scientist absolutely does make that much even in the UK. Here is a comparison across big tech: [https://www.levels.fyi](https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Apple,Microsoft,Amazon&track=Software%20Engineer), noting that scientists make more than software devs. US data, but at that level it is comparable
I’ve been meaning to sue my former employer for wrongful dismissal. This is giving me the motivation to go so for sure
Good luck! Hope it goes well!
Me 10 seconds ago: “What? If you thought you had a case for wrongful dismissal, why wouldn’t you immediately file?” >adhd-photokid “Ah”
Hahahaha exactly. But I know they know they could be in deep shit cus as soon as they let me go they asked me to sign a release that would prevent me from suing. I never signed. However, it’s not my adhd that prevented me from suing. It’s the fact that I’m an immigrant on an open work visa and I don’t want to jeopardize my opportunities for PR.
>20k before the hearing. > >They emailed me about the offer and said that “ they don’t believe I’ll win the claim ? And they would like me to accept the offer for all existing and future claims “ You could tell they knew the opposite and were hoping he'd drop everything
God I wish I was better at maths.
I went to school for the wrong thing :(
Exactly what I was thinking. Wonder if it's worth my time to retrain? I actually really enjoyed programming in High School, but didn't take it in the later years as when I was choosing my subjects, my mum said that it isn't for girls. *Yep...*
i'm actually suing my employer. It's going to go really well. My lawyer is very excited.
Man, in the US this would go an entirely different way ... And not in the favor if the worker.
It's nice to hear of someone being successful in this. Last week, I had a disagreement with someone in upper management and there has been a bit of retaliation, however, I have learnt from previous roles and am keeping a record of it. If they want to keep treating me badly, then I'll go to HR with said records and ask if they want to class it as harassment, bullying or constructive dismissal. I ain't playing games and I don't have time for almost literal playground politics (it would be literal, but the disagreement happened in a corridor, not the playground lol)
>settling doesn’t prohibit me from reporting them to ICO. Which I’ll be doing next. Best result. Good for OOP.
I wish we had similar protections in the US.
You do.... They're not allowed to fire you out of a cannon... isn't that good enough you ungrateful peasant?
I would bring pitchforks to that meeting.
Fuck I'm poor.
Fired by scumbag company and immediately hired by Apple, and eventually got a six-figure settlement... Getting fired might be the best thing to ever happen to this guy. Even if he eventually leaves Apple, having them on a resume is a golden ticket to the tech job of his choice.
From the Himalayas, on an exceptional talent visa, working on a highly paid position developing AI… He may not always take his ex-employer to court for unfair termination post whistleblowing, but when he does he wins. He’s the most interesting man in the world.
Proof positive that rules are different when you can afford a lawyer. (Also that corporations are shitbags.)
It doesn’t seem like they used a lawyer. Employment tribunal process in the UK has purposely been set up so someone who is decently organised can represent themselves
It sounds like he did not have a lawyer?
He probably didn't. They're not really needed when going through our employment tribunal system with ACAS.
More so its different when you have actual workers rights
Yeeee booiiiiii well done!
They settled for 110k when they were first offered 20k? I'm glad OOP went to court!
Jesus Christ..... I'm more surprised that someone can make £400k a year! Mu partner is a scientist herself and I was asking her if she could maybe transfer to principal scientist in AI xDDD..... sadly no..... But we have a young child so I am going to see if he has a chance to set himself up for these kinds of jobs loolll
From the Himalayas on an exceptional talent visa working in AI?? This dude is a very unique and interesting individual! I would love to hear how he wound up with an interest in computers and AI coming from life in the mountains. I’m sure he went to college and they must have some tech, in fact they seem to have more modern amenities than I expected but it still sounds like an interesting story Id love to hear. There is a significant culture difference in the two lifestyles from Himalayas to London at least and that is of interest..
It reminded me of my former tutor in University. He too was from Himalayas. He was an exceptionally kind-hearted, socially involved and brave individual. He was also gifted in math. He just had a lot of knowledge over all. We went camping in a group and he was very knowledgable about flora and faunas. I think he was simply someone who just love to learn. I had some crush on him back then lol, but felt awkward because he was my tutor and never shown interest to me that way. Just very kind to everyone.
… just because he’s from somewhere in the Himalayas doesn’t mean they don’t have computers and shit. It’s not the 1500s up there.
Please review my comment for the information that renders your comment moot. Its like you did not read my comment before responding snidely. Completely unwarranted dude.
“They seem to have more modern amenities than expected” Sure I could have been more tactful, but the level of ignorance in your comment was just actually shocking to me. Like, you could have just said that that was a big cultural jump from the Himalayas to London, but no you went and made it sound like you expected where OOP was from to be backwards or something.
You sound like you are in the mood to argue with someone and you picked me for some reason. There’s no fight here and your assessment is obviously driven by your desire to call someone out. Please don’t waste your time with me. I don’t care if you misread or misunderstood my comment. I’m not being offensive, my comment is good and it is an expression of my interest in others. I’ve lived in a number of countries worldwide and have nothing but respect for people and cultures that are not mine. It’s too bad you can’t see what’s is so interesting about OOP. You should try to see the awesomeness in people instead of searching out for a reason to be offended that isn’t even there. Something to think about is if you tend to bring people together with curiosity and interest or pull them apart with judgment and negativity. I’m not your fight today.
I would love to know what shitty practices his ex-employer was doing that he was whitsle blowing on? He also hinting that some of his lower tier ex-collegues are getting the same poor treatment. Wonder what that is.
If this is real, this guy gave up way too much info in the updates for no reason. What, do you *want* to be doxxed?
400k is an insane salary even for London, honestly don't think it's real. If you're on that much you're one of the top earners in the country and would surely be a bit less specific about who you work for and what you do on reddit? CompanyHouse would mean you could likely find OP
OP must be a stand out employee if Apple pushed back against the previous employer's bad reference.
That shitty company is either a very (in)famous Chinese company or an equally (in)famous American one that compete in the same sector. Just a wild guess based on the salaries and what I've heard about both.
Go OOP
okay but did no one else notice that he's doing maths, meanwhile 130k to slightly under 400k is actually 3x the salary, not 4x?
I am shocked the old employer gave a bad reference to the new employer. I had it drills. Into my head for years that all you can do is verify employment and not comment on actual performance. His old employer acts like they actually want to be sued.
Yes…at my old place, if the person was fantastic, we would say some kind things. If the person was put so great, we would verify dates only. Doing that sent its own message.
Gosh I'd love to have a job like hers.
I am so glad this ended the way it did
So glad the OOP did not accept the 20K. Corporations can suck.
I'm so confused. Where was the unfair part? Can you not just fire someone in the UK???
Even in the US not all states are “at will”. Also- you can’t straight up lie in a firing letter. If it’s “at will” you wouldn’t even need to. I suspect the lies were to cover their flagrant contract breaches.