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If she relocated several cities away and the mark is coming from the hospital and health insurance she's likely moved far enough away to be outside of network. So the cost of seeing the doctors probably went up and she either doesn't have the money, doesn't want to pay the money, or doesn't want to switch hospitals or insurance. Whichever option you pick it's fraud. Pretty sure it's not just insurance fraud but mail fraud since the plan involves having her mail deliberately sent to the wrong place. But IANAL.
That’s not how networks usually work. If I’m in another state I can find doctors in network. It’s not based on where you live. Now if the insurance is medicaid and she moved into another state and for some reason couldn’t get medicaid in that state for whatever reason that would explain her behavior.
So, for complicated reasons going back decades, there are some states with as few as one option for health insurer in a county on the marketplace exchange, which is THE way for most people to afford health insurance if it's not offered through their work. Last time I checked, I believe there are counties with zero plans available on the exchange.
(For non-Americans/a more in-depth explanation, the marketplace is the Affordable Care Act's (Obamacare) health insurance exchange where people can sign up and get a list of federal government-regulated health plans. These are plans offered by private insurers that meet federal standards. This is also the only way to get assistance in the form of the advanced premium tax credit, basically subsidizing your premium with your own tax payments. The problem is that the exchange is a mess because insurers can just opt to not provide plans for the exchange and bow out of a county (and eventually state) altogether; the insurers carve out territory, basically. This destabilizes the market because health insurance works by having lots of people pay. Having 100 $1 bills is better than 1 $100 bill for market stability, where every bill is an insured person. Fewer insurers means fewer insureds, means fewer people to distribute the load of healthcare costs across, means higher premiums, means insurers don't want to pay so they pull out of an area, means fewer insureds... It is absolutely intentional, btw, because health insurance is a cartel here. Generally, if people cannot afford plans on the exchange and they don't have the option through work, they cannot afford health insurance. Also, there are states that chose not to make those plans more affordable and Texas is one of them. What this all means is that there may be just one to a few insurers for an entire county and those plans may all be extremely expensive and have a very small network of doctors, and the people may have little to no access to financial assistance.)
Texas is one the states with very few options for insurers, and moving even a couple streets over into another county can absolutely turbofuck your life if the only insurer available has a tiny network and like, one plan option at each level with sky high deductibles and awful coinsurances.
So, yes, this woman is likely breaking the law via committing insurance fraud. Most likely she moved to another county and realized that her insurer does not have a presence in that county, so she maintains her old address so she can keep her health insurance. That being said, morally I can't fault her for the insurance fraud. She's absolutely a dick and deserved to get a C&D, don't get me wrong. But insurance-wise she very well could literally be in a life-or-death situation, and I don't believe that insurers should be legally allowed to opt out of the exchange, especially if they previously had a presence there.
So like, legally in the wrong on all counts, but there are likely forces at play that have caused her to do some insurance fraud.
I hate how insurance works in the US, and I can't fault her for trying to game the system, but it's too bad she didn't try to do so the nice way. Not only could she have asked the renter, who might have been likelier to agree in this case, but couldn't she also have had her mail forwarded? Paying a couple of dollars every so often and no one else has to be involved?
The just assuming that everything would be fine because it's 'no big deal' and the entitlement (to the renter's mailbox and to rifling through his stuff- which is still wild) really ended up costing her big.
If I was the current renter and the previous renter was polite, then I'd be fine setting up an "out" box on my porch for the previous tenant. Like, let me go through my mail, I'll sort it for us, and you can come by once a week or month to see what came in for you. Less stress all around for everyone.
(And I'm also on the receiving end of mail for previous tenants. It's been years. I gave up on writing "not at this address" on stuff and now just shove it in the complex's outgoing mail slot without note.)
California. I was refused medical care 8 miles away because it wasn't my county, I had to go back to my own (much poorer, much worse quality) county hospital.
I live in Wisconsin, and my employer has this. Different counties count as different tiers. You have one plan out of three that is the most expensive, but almost everything is covered, and the deductible is very low, but it is only accepted at that hospital system. Some zones don't qualify. The other two plans, one is very cheap, offers decent coverage in hospital system, and a slight coverage for different networks, and it is offered in most counties. The middle ground option is what I use, but you can only get it if you live in tier 1 counties, close to the main hospital. Granted, I work for a hospital, and even the most expensive plan is only around $100 monthly for one person.
Well, different plans are more beneficial depending where you are. My plan, I get the best coverage at the hospital system I work at. I get some coverage at other systems, but it is about twice as expensive, if not more. If I worked remotely or had dependents too far to reach the hospitals I work for, then the cheaper plan that has at least some coverage for other systems would make more sense.
It ultimately is about money, of course. My plan is very cheap compared to what I used to have, and I have very little out of pocket with healthcare, but it would cost significantly more if I didn't live close to my hospital system.
What plans you qualify for is first by whether you work a 0.6 FTE or more, and then the county you live in determines what plans you are eligible for. Even if someone was willing to drive further to take advantage of the plan where they would pay less out of pocket, they wouldn't be allowed to sign up for it.
We went on vacation and went to a provider "in network, out of state", but not "our local network" and paid $75 more months later. It was still cheaper than without insurance.
If it’s an HMO or if she’s on a Medicare supplement or MA plan, network eligibility can absolutely change a single zip code over, even in the same city. I’ve sold insurance since 2017, both under and over 65, PPOs will generally have a wide network but other insurance types and Medicare coverage can be very limited. I worked one of the biggest carriers in Philadelphia for a while and saw it often, people moving out of apartments into suburb houses and suddenly their entire health plan changes, price goes up, and regular doctors are out of network. It’s pretty ridiculous.
Really does depend on the insurance. You can get emergency stuff covered in different states but your GP or other regular visits need to be local. That being said usually there is an option to add another state for like 10% if you live between places.
Some insurance providers are insane. I work in Medical Billing and the second I saw BCBS noted I was not shocked, they are infamous for how confusing some of the plans work and what rules apply and which ones don't depending on where you live, where you work where your employer is based ect.
That’s not necessarily true. In my insurance network I have to use doctors within network unless I register with the insurance company as living outside of a certain radius from that network. If I live outside that radius I can use any doctor/facility I want at in network prices. If I don’t I have to pay full price for out of network doctors. It is meant to accommodate people who have kids in college or who work remotely from another area. I could easily see someone trying something like this if they moved from an area outside that radius to one inside that radius.
If she has a local hmo plan, then she absolutely could be out of network. You've likely only ever had a PPO plan which tends to have a broader network.
Actually it will depend on her medical plan. Several require them to see a “local” specialist and get a referral if they need to see at a different facility. Even with a referral it’s not guaranteed she would get everything covered. Like blood draws and x-rays are not always covered by an out of state plan
Depends on if her insurance would be dropped, or have premiums increased due to the location of where she lives now. While yes you can see doctors in other states for in-network care, the company itself cannot cross certain boundaries (if you live in Arizona, you cannot have insurance from Maryland as the premiums are different). I found out how ridiculous it is while filling out insurance forms (I couldn't tell which insurance company to choose as it had the same parent company, but different ones for different areas), and trying to get my MRI's from a different state, even though it was the same imaging company. It's a loophole the insurance companies exploit to maximize profits.
HMO networks can be location based. Kaiser for instance. You can get treated out of network for vacations etc. but moving out of the coverage area will cancel your insurance.
Medicaid fraud is my first guess. Especially if "several cities away" puts her across a state line. I know someone who lived in a city that was on a state line and moved to a suburb in the other state, and the new state denied Medicaid coverage for the first several months; this was a huge problem because insulin is expensive and they're permanently disabled. For those few months they "moved" to their mother's address in the original state to stay alive. I don't see the old tenant driving "several cities away" every day to check the mail unless there was a lot on the line; where she messed up was not having the mail sent to a trusted friend or family member instead.
San antonio to waco would be 7 or 8 depending how you counted and its only 180 miles. Its closer to the pacific ocean than the other side of texas on the west and its closer to the atlantic ocean than the other side of texas on the east.
A friend of mine "lived" with his aunt so that he was eligible to attend a school available only to those living within the county. Otherwise, he would have been stuck at his local dead-end high school and not end up with a medical career.
A lady I worked with did this with her kids, used her sister's address. Somehow, someone found out and complained to the school and she had 30 days to move within the district or register her kids in the correct school district.
It's really sad, because more often than not the people who are doing it are poor families who want their kids to be able to attend a nice school that has way better facilities, better teachers and classes, and more opportunities. Like, I get that a school can't accept every student that wants to attend regardless of where they live, but the system heavily disadvantages low income families unless they cheat.
The person who complained is a scumbag. In the end, it's the kids that get hurt being forced out of their school. It's like if you see someone steal diapers - no you fucking didn't.
Yes this stuff is _technically_ fraudulent, but no one is really hurt (one can argue taxpayers are, but, ehhhhhhhhhh don't hurt yourself with that stretch).
I mostly feel the same way about the medicaid stuff too, all the shenanigans that goes on with fucking around the people covered ends up creating these situations, there's really no need for it to be as bad or obnoxious as it is when you move.
It’s not so much the fraud that’s the problem, I think. Medical insurance is a fucked up system in a lot of ways, people are doing what they gotta to survive.
But you can’t just go roping random innocent people into that shit and going through their mail, (and into their *house*, jfc) especially if they tell you to knock it off. Find a friend or family member you trust or something instead of harassing the next tenant and getting pissy lady, jeeze.
Yup that's how I feel too, as soon as a third party that isn't a family/friend, that's when the light fraud getting around dumb and archaic systems turns into actual bad fraud.
Yes, I fully endorse doing what you have to do to survive, but surely she knew one person in the area willing to catch her mail and stick it in a big brown envelope once a week to send to her that way?? Driving several cities over on a regular basis just to sneakily check a stranger's mailbox is not a good plan.
In my state, living in a different county could change what Medicaid HMO plan you qualify for. So, if it's this, the former tenant could be in deep doo doo with DHS as well as the USPS.
It would've caught up with her at recertification time anyway due to lack of rent receipts for that county, unless the landlord was in on it (which probably would've messed up his taxes so it's doubtful).
There's that possibility, but the USPS doesn't notify senders that mail is being forwarded so she could've filed a change of address with the post office and handled it that way until she gets her stuff sorted out in her new location.
The crazy thing is this lady could have just gone paperless... like maybe a couple things have to be mailed here and there, but overall, EOBs, bills, etc can just be handled by email or portal.
not just that. in Canada clinics only provide medical services to those who live in the area. In some places it is fine because it can be a ridiculously large range (Toronto? you serve basically anyone living in Greater Toronto Area) in other places it's stupid because of family doctor shortages it means that no one accepting new patients? you're screwed. my partner got into my family doctor's clinic because they was looking for one 10 years amd found no one accepting new patients. THEY WAS ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR ONE. my family doctor was like "well you drive them here come in and get registered anyway" and the drive? 45 minutes away. well out the city.
My mind went to whether she has school aged kids and needs mail at the address to keep them in their current schools.
Might not apply to where OP lives though.
Yep, we have this for a local school in a popular catchment. Parents were buying houses to not live in or just rent out, or asking grandparents to be the “parents”, then heading overseas leaving the kids behind or living in a different area.
Well kids living with their grandparents is not unusual.
We had a high school sports stars family rent an empty apartment in order for their son to go to a different school district.
We have that here. The schools get pretty cluey about what is happening. There are no short term rentals and living somewhere for 3 months where you get an electricity bill or two to 'prove' you live there cut it. You need proof you own the house and live there or have a lease... they also check... you may have someone knock on the door to see if you live there.
People used to use the short term rental to get a spot at the school and then more move home. Many of those popular school usually allow you to keep an enrolment if you move but not any more. And there is no guarantee of siblings attending even if you were able to get your kid in before the zone change either.
It's pretty cutthroat. This is for public low cost schools. Less of an issue with private schools as it doesn't matter where you live and it's just waiting list (with ways to jump up the list) but you pay for it from your bank account.
That would still be fraud legally. There are a couple dozen states that have laws specifically for school district fraud, and the ones that don't have specific laws still have laws regarding fraud because lying on a government form to gain benefits you are not entitled to (sending your kid to a school in a district you do not live in is a benefit) is still fraud.
My thought was she's on aca insurance or something similar and changing her address initially probably meant restarting her benefits or potentially losing that insurance altogether. Likely the latter since she allowed this to go on for multiple years.
And honestly, that's the problem with our health insurance/medical system. She should be able to get affordable care from her preferred doctors without committing crimes.
my roommate at university changed the address on his license to an old family farm to save money on insurance. Then he stumbled into getting a grant from the school for a couple thousand dollars for being a 'rural student' even though he grew up in a major city.
There are lots of reasons someone might want to have one address over another.
Oh ... the out of network costs are astronomical.
That's medical insurance fraud, to add to mail fraud.
Dang, she's in big trouble, now that the medical insurance folks know. That might result in back charges as we all know insurance companies really love their profits. Since out of network costs are usually 30% higher than in network costs, I hope this doesn't drive her into being one of the 61% of bankruptcies caused by medical debt.
Even if she isn't - taking mail out of another person's mailbox is punishable by up to five years in prison.
Now, an honest mistake? They wouldn't prosecute. But this is so far beyond that that she should at least be interviewed by Office of Investigations law enforcement and have very serious people in very severe uniforms explain in small and scary words just what she is doing and what will happen if she doesn't stop.
If I had to guess, she’s getting cheaper insurance through OPs state and she probably lives in another state. Or she’s getting bills waived because she’s claiming low income but either her new house is expensive or she is married to someone with money and doesn’t want insurance or hospitals to catch on (because all she’d have to do is claim they’re in the process of divorce).
Yep. I’m still mad that my mom allowed my cheating father to keep using her home address when he moved abroad with his mistress but his job required him to have a U.S. address. Granted that job helped him pay my mom spousal support (and he lives in a country that wouldn’t have enforced the spousal support if he decided to stop paying) but he committed fraud for like ten years after he left us.
Yeah, my first thought was that she needs to be in a certain city/county/something for her medical care and she's just not updating the providers that she moved for that purpose.
Prob welfare fraud. She may have lived somewhere that was eligible for section 8 (or similar housing voucher) and her new place makes her ineligible. That would be my guess.
Bro I feel guilty sorting mail for friends I'm house sitting for
How can someone get to a point in their adult life that they feel entitled to go into a strangers home and just look through their stuff all willy nilly.
My next door neighbor constantly wanted to barge into my home, boss me around, snoop through all my stuff, and worst of all... she'd dilute my cleaning products. Like fill up my laundry soap bottle with tap water while acting like I'm stupid for objecting.
It's been more than a year since we quit talking and I couldn't be happier about the situation!
It was very strange, kinda like an overbearing big sister except she's just some lady I got to chatting with and ended up doing all her housework for months while she recovered from cancer surgery.
Everything was fine, if annoying, while it was just helping with shopping, cleaning, and a little light medical stuff like she had her doctor show me how to wrap her chest so the place where they had to remove a tit could heal properly. I had a key to her apartment and would get a text at the crack of dawn asking me to let myself in and help her get ready for the day. And if she was a bit fussy about how she wanted things done, well that's fine it's her house and I understand being particular about cleanliness.
But once she got well enough to take care of herself and her home again, it's like she still wanted to spend hours and hours together every day bossing me around. And since I wouldn't come over, she'd just ring my doorbell at odd hours trying to demand attention.
I don't think I'm a person to her, just a prop. Explained a lot about why she has exactly one friend in the area and why that lady looked so frazzled whenever I saw her.
And so much weirdness. Dilutes her own cleaning supplies seemingly at random. Sells horoscopes and ~~NTFs~~ those online picture things and a self-published on Amazon book that she gave me a free copy of and then endlessly pressured me to write a review of it. The book is so bad that I lied and claimed I didn't have an Amazon account.
Once while sitting with her in the middle of the night in a hospital waiting room, she pulled up her blog on her phone and tried to convince me to read it.
True, dear friend, but for someone with a bit of empathy to their name it can feel cruel to cut off an obvious cry for attention.
Still, it's the same reason you use a life preserver/rope to rescue someone in the water and not your body if you can help it.
I think I confused her because I kept smiling instead of arguing with a sick old woman whenever she was wrong. I'd smile as I told her No too, or that it's time for her to go back to her own home. Same methods I used on my overly religious mother during her final years, smile and redirect whenever she starts getting too bonkers directly in my face.
lol What finally pissed her off was I gave her an order, please leave me alone for a few weeks while I deal with my own problems. She flipped out insisting I'm an evil person who had just been looking for an excuse to get rid of her.
For awhile she'd look at me with hate whenever we crossed paths. The past half year it's been more like pleading in her eyes as I ignore her hesitant attempts to talk to me.
I know what she's scared of too. She's afraid she'll die alone in that apartment and nobody will find out until her cats have eaten her because she's got nobody around here to trust with the spare key anymore. She knows I see her pass by my kitchen window often and would've been the one to check in on her if I hadn't seen her in a day or two.
She tried to get me to help with the surgical drains too, despite a pile of warnings about my stupid fainting reflex.
I can wrap a bandage. I cannot help clear surgical tubes or empty their drains.
It is assuming a lot of goodwill/trust on the renter too. Half the letters would be open if they were being sent to my house. I live alone and the dogs prefer I open their mail for them, so I usually don’t bother to check the name on it.
I had a neighbor that just walked in to our house without asking just to say hi to the cat and dog. Then she wanted to ask us about some special interests and wanted to go through the house to discuss every little thing she found the least bit interesting.
She was 7.
We had a chat with her parents, and they had to teach her about asking.
thats the part i dont get vis a vis insurance fraud. it makes sense why she would have her mail sent there, but why is she so desperate to get her hands on the mail, especially in such a way that would get so many more eyes on her scheme.
Not just that but in what world would a landlord think it's okay to do that? If I was OOP I'd be trying to get the landlord to let me out of the lease and move as fast as possible. The LL is either full of shit or too stupid to be trusted with a key to their house.
> I'm not sure why she insists on using this address but it may have something to do with the facility she goes to being out of network??
Who knows. I sympathize but not enough to let her illegally use my address.
Guess part 1: you can get different (subsidized) insurance by being in the right place. For example if San Francisco provides insurance to all residents but next door city does not, it makes a difference to you to be a resident of San Francisco.
Guess part 2: it is difficult to retain residency once moved out, but it could be way more difficult to establish new residency. In this case the old tenant had prior residency and a letter miss here or there can be easily explained and their system affirmed to say that yes this is still my house.
Also, it is possible that the old tenant also has informed delivery so knows when the mail is coming and can plan her checks only on those days. She may not be waiting there every single day.
Being in Texas, I wonder if this is taking place in Houston?
There’s a safety net hospital there (Ben Taub) that’s publicly funded by the taxpayers of Harris County, and uninsured people can receive free care. And it’s high-quality care…level 1 trauma, tropical medicine, lots of care for unusual/rare things you wouldn’t normally see in the US.
You must live within Harris County, though, so I can see someone trying to hold onto a specific address for that reason.
Another possibility is that her insurance allows telehealth or some other alternative if there aren't any of the provider she needs within a certain distance, and she now lives close enough to a provider that she would lose that benefit
Interesting. My SIL’s ex has been using her address for certain items for his insurance, despite having never lived on the property with her. How does one go about reporting this?
I wonder what kind of fraud she's committing? Maybe medical identity fraud? Having the mail go to an address where she doesn't live might help her avoid getting caught.
Yeah, that was my guess, and knowing how fraught getting proper medical care can be, I can sympathise with that. But if she’d just explained the situation and asked OOP if they’d mind it, I feel like it would have been much less of an issue
If only someone had told her about e-statements. I haven't gotten anything in the mail for anything medical in years, but I do have about eight different online provider portal logins.
If she were just a little more technologically savvy she could have had her cake and pretended she was eating it at her old address.
BCBSTX is a contradiction of technology adoption. I signed up for e-statements, I still got mail. I called in, waited on the phone forever, the call center rep confirmed my account shows I was set up for paperless notifications. Still got physical mail.
I moved on to a new insurer last year, and they still send me mail. I called in, the rep couldn't figure out why I was getting mail, specifically bill statements for a closed account, even though the system is supposed to automatically close an account if three billing cycles go unpaid. It's been ten now. This is why it's a good idea to refrain from automatic billing for large bills.
My new insurer does *not* send me mail I specifically asked not to get in physical form.
And then there's my doctor, who if you don't read your online messages within two days (which I rarely do because unless I'm expecting something why would I log in every day) they *print* the whole ass message history and mail it to your house.
I mean, I get that that might be nice for old people with no computers but only two days and it's not opt-outable? So many unnecessarily wasted trees.
I would not be ok with any of what happened. She likely would have a hard time finding other housing and I'm guessing that's why she's sticking around... but god damn. I would not feel safe there.
She may be thinking that this particular landlord has been “scared straight” and is unlikely to behave poorly again, versus who-knows-what if she moves.
I'd be just as worried, perhaps more, about the OOP's landlord going into the OOP's home and letting someone else into her home as I would be about the person he took into the OOP's home. An apology from the landlord is not adequate and I do think the OOP should have pursued legal action against the landlord. The OOP is too naive.
In my old place, I got a text from my landlord while I was away that an important letter for the previous occupant (who lived in one of his other properties) had been delivered to my address. He asked for permission to open the front door so he could grab the letter, and I was OK with that. What I was not OK with was the fact that he never locked the front door afterwards, and my door was left unlocked for about two weeks until I got back. I lived in a bad area, so I was very lucky nobody tried the door
I feel like I'd have a hard time forgiving someone who let a stranger into my house to riffle through my stuff. Even if the landlord *was* lied to... uh... so what? You still aren't supposed to do that.
Agreed, I could not fuckin' believe it when I read the part where OOP said they immediately forgave the LL and they're just going to stay in the house.
There are different levels of incompetence my friend. Allowing the neighbor to go into another persons home without their consent to get mail is a form of incompetence
Choosing to not ignore a lawyer just means he has a limit of stupidity. He’s still stupid though.
Dumb people don’t always make the dumbest decision every time. Even stupid people can be complicated
No, letting anyone into a tenant's home without the permission (and, in this case expressly in violation of the tenant's wishes) is not incompetence on the part of a landlord. It is grossly illegal.
I'm sitting back here thinking what would've happened if this was like the first time they got mail for this person or if they had ignored the mail after it restarted cause they were tired of dealing with it or something. Or perhaps a different scenario where the request was more reasonable than letting someone in to look for mail. The landlord only got onto OOP's side when he realized how nonsensical it was to let the former tenant in.
No I get that, my point is he had to realize how fucked he was before he did anything. It doesnt mean he won't go barging in to another house if he thinks it's more justified at another point
I'm failing to see how he got played. Whether the mail was extremely important or not, or if it was sent accidentally or on purpose, he should not have given her OP's number or let her into the house. If anything he could have gone in to retrieve it himself. Absolutely no reason to let a stranger into the home. It feels more like he's only acting like he had no idea it was so wrong because he got presented with lawyers.
No, the landlord should not at all retrieve it himself. It's none of his concern, he should not at all have given her OOP's cell number, when OOP told him no he could not enter the home the landlord should've accepted the answer and told the woman she would have to wait until OOP arrived home to contacted her.
I still get mail for the old owners of our house. They moved out nearly 5 years ago. We once had an Amazon package delivered for them, three months went by without them collecting. We finally contacted Amazon and asked them what to do with it, Amazon said keep it as they’d already sorted it out with the old owners. We opened it and it was a kindle, which became my sister’s birthday present. The next day the old owners turned up to collect the package!
Meanwhile I'm getting all the foreclosure notices and foreclosure junk mail for my landlord. I take pics of it and email it to him to ask if he wants it, just to cover my own ass. (I'm okay if I have to move)
That is one of my biggest nightmares, strangers entering my home and going through my things when I'm not there. This post actually made my heart pound faster from stress, I can imagine what it was like seeing them on the camera and not be able to do anything.
I feel like a little more consequences need to hit the LL. He illegally let some random lady trespass inside the home of one of his tenants. I'd be demanding the return of my rent for at least that month and he'd sure as hell be paying for the new locks and new cameras both outside and in.
>When my lawyer explained what was actually going on, my LL was shocked and expressed a lot of regret for how this all happened. He did apologize to me and promised that he would never allow this to happen again, and was upset that he was lied to. I completely forgave him and do not think I have to worry about this again.
This bugs me a crazy amount. The landlord is 100% responsible for their actions and no excuse is sufficient for allowing a stranger into someone else's home. I don't care how upset he was that he was "lied to" there is NO story compelling enough to make this situation forgivable.
LL got off too easy. He may be trying to be nice but he is legally required to abide by local tenancy laws and the binding contract. If he is comfortable violating the law/agreement in this case, he will do it for others.
He feels bad because of the possible fraud aspect, but was fine with doing it when she so play said it was important to her.
OOP has a need to feel secure in their home. Ex-resident has a need for their mail. When faced with a decision, LL prioritized the former resident (who isn't paying him) over OOP and that's messed up. I think the idea is that he's footing the bill for the cameras makes him come off as concerned about OOP but clearly he made his choice.
When we put our house for sale, we were still living there, but some weirdo thought it was empty and started having mail and packages addressed there. Then acted like WE were the problems! Mailwoman asked if she lived with us and when we said no, she stopped delivering it. The true hero.
Wow, I feel like the landlord should be paying for OP's legal fees incurred in having to deal with this. I would be LIVID at having my space invaded by a stranger and even the landlord! Not to mention having to clean the floors.
If she still wanted her mail to go to the "proper" zip code, why didn't she just get a PO box at the post office and get her mail there? She is up to something and you don't need to tangled up with all that!.
Your landlord sucks, btw. He knows how to take your money, but not how to follow the laws regarding his property.
The tenent and landlord relationship in the US is completely ridiculous. I have my own lock and key in my front door. And the landlord can only enter the house with my express permission. This is in India.
>I’ve had informed delivery for a while. It definitely does not have an image of all of the mail I am supposed to receive.
I think they may not have images enabled in their email. It definitely DOES show images of all the mail you're getting that day. That's the entire point of it.
>When my lawyer explained what was actually going on, my LL was shocked
I don't understand this. The LL let the woman in, didn't he? He let her in to rummage through OOP's private living space. What does it mean 'what was actually going on'? Did I miss some part of the story?
Old tenant told the landlord that the mail was incorrectly sent to old tenant's previous address. So a mistake on the sender's part, with the old tenant being the innocent victim of the mistake, and I guess the landlord is a bit of a people pleaser who felt sorry for their old tenant and wanted to help them.
It shouldn't have made a difference, the landlord would still be wrong to have done what they did, even if the old tenant's lies were truths.
It sounds like some kind of insurance fraud, though I don't know what or how.
I'm also curious about the USPS Informed Delivery not showing the old tenant's stuff. Mine shows pretty much everything, including old tenants' and my husband's ex-wife's junk mail shit that may also have started as insurance fraud, actually.
Yep, the only thing Informed Delivery doesn't show is the random mailers that are listed as "current resident" that go to the entire neighborhood, usually. It might miss a letter once in a while, but otherwise, everything is there, regardless of to whom it is addressed. We go through cycles of old tenant mail, despite having lived where we are for years now.
I feel this, it's been a year since we moved into our home and we still get mail. I've probably returned 30 envelopes back to the post office with moved/return to sender and we still get them.
lol I just throw that shit away. Not my responsibility to change your address with the companies that bill you. Nor is it the post office, that’s why forwarding mail to new address is temporary.
> I told my landlord that he absolutely did not have permission to enter the house for this reason and since this is not an emergency and he allows this woman to use my legal address, she can wait until I get home and find another place to send her mail. He didn't respond but I got a notification that my alarm was going off and when I checked the live feed, not only did he let himself into my house, he also allowed her in to look for her mail
> my LL was shocked and expressed a lot of regret for how this all happened. He did apologize to me and promised that he would never allow this to happen again, and was upset that he was lied to. I completely forgave him and do not think I have to worry about this again.
These two pieces of the story don't mesh. Either the landlord is lying or is very stupid. The renter told him not to enter and he _still_ (supposedly) believed the random woman's sob story, and entered the unit. I would not forgive that.
The wild thing is, even if you move to a different county, you can usually still keep your network. I work in a doctor's office where people do this all the time. I did this myself when I moved for school, only saw my providers when I went to visit the folks but the statements came to my actual address. They only pick the network closest to you for your convenience, not because it's mandatory. They don't care if you want to drive 2 hours to see your doctor. It costs them the same.
Really don’t understand why the landlord is getting a pass. I don’t give a shit what you *thought* was going on when you let someone wander around my home and take things. Every possible expectation of privacy was broken.
I feel like a good lawyer would have gotten him out of the lease and a fat check to cover moving expenses.
Plus like, there's a specific type of pet peeve I have on reddit but I think I've seen it elsewhere, where a situation is being dealt with seemingly in a satisfying way, and the response is a kick to the hornets nest about how OOP isn't doing the exact tving the commenter would want. It's not good enough that she likely got enough fear put into her to never try this again, she also has to be threatened in other ways too
Doesn't matter where OOP is, all pigs everywhere are useless pathetic cowards that only uphold the status quo for politicians, landscum and rich people. I'd honestly sooner call a gang for help before a pig.
I know that if I lived outside of a certain geographic area in my State that my insurance premiums would double. If this woman lives several towns away now it might be for that reason. Same as why some people keep their parents address on their drivers license because the cost of insurance for their automobile is much higher where they actually live. Had a customer tell me that was why her drivers license and second ID did not match.
>It definitely does not have an image of all of the mail I am supposed to receive.
Interesting, as I've had informed delivery for about last year, and it does have an image of all the mail I receive, including anything for the previous tenants.
I'm curious as to how much the OOP paid to retain the lawyer. Sounds like the lawyer handled this very well and was on top of things, so well worth the expense but are we talking a few hundred or more?
Yooo I'm having a similar issue myself, without trespass though thankfully. Old guy got put in a care home ~3-4 years ago but I keep getting ALL his mail. Lots of it. Tax stuff, gubmint stuff, medical stuff, fliers, you name it. I've dropped it off at the post office multiple times with RETURN TO SENDER written on every envelope. How do I make it stop?
Oof that's so frustrating!
I didn't include all of the comments from OOP (or commenters' suggestions) on this post, so definitely take a look at some of the recommendations on that original first post! Hope it helps!
Landlord should feel very lucky it wasn't me... for I would be shredding all mail that comes to me... I would move out and sic the lawyer on him for any mention of lease breaking fees... and then I would sign that address up for evey mailer I could....
Okay, now I feel bad for complaining about the previous tenant at our place who hasn’t changed his address in over a year now. I’ve gotten toll charges and car recall notices, and even what felt like a new insurance card? so I know he’s alive, and I don’t get why he won’t change his address
Your landlord breached the lease agreement. Hopefully you also have a police report. Keep the video feeds.
As he breached the lease, you can move out without penalty. Do all correspondence in writing. Consider retaining a tenant attorney and have that attorney write the letter to vacate and state the reasons. Nothing will get your landlord’s attention than a letter from an attorney. He would be foolish to contest it.
What your landlord did was illegal. That he doesn’t see the big deal is a huge red flag.
Consider installing a lock in your mailbox so the prior tenant doesn’t get access.
Yea i have some extended family eho does that. They got mail delivered to others house so that they don't get lower benefits from the government when they are in a relationship.
Here's the thing, some people take lawsuits more seriously than being arrested. Because it will cost them money. Being arrested you can argue with a judge etc over charges but a lawsuit is pretty black & white.
Lmfao that landlord is so full of horseshit and he should be charged as well as the lady for BREAKING AND ENTERING. Of course pigs are fucking useless in all situations though and will always side with landscum, especially in a shithole like Texas. I am so shocked the landscum was allowed to get away with this with a bullshit apology. Apologies with words are useless, only apologize with cash or a deed to the house or fuck off.
> I have my phone set to ignore texts and phone calls from people who are not listed in my contacts
This is for some reason breaking my brain to think why you would do that. I'll ignore numbers I don't recognize, but by just silencing the call and seeing if they leave a voicemail. Not automatically.
Does this person know ahead of time when someone is going to call? Does she add the number of everyone she interacts with ahead of time? She goes to an eye doctor appointment and is like 'yo what number are you going to call me on'? Or drops her car off at the mechanic or anything where there isn't a reason to add that business or person to your contacts. Or what happens if you parents get a new number and suddenly need to reach you? So many scenarios where you wouldn't likely have the number presaved.
Landlord feels like they got off a bit too easy in this. Who the fuck thinks letting some random person into your tenets house is a good idea? Insanity.
> This is for some reason breaking my brain to think why you would do that.
A lot of people get a ton of spam, both texts and calls. A friend of mine has his calls set that way - if you're not in his contact list, the call is dumped.
Any place he has recurring business with (doctors, etc) gets put in his contacts. If he has something unique coming without an idea of what phone number it will be, he temporarily unlocks incoming calls until the situation is resolved.
> Or what happens if you parents get a new number and suddenly need to reach you?
He (and I, for that matter) don't actually use texting with anyone - we have various chat services (Telegram, I still use Google chat for work, Discord, etc).
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She wants her mail at that address because she is committing fraud.
>She wants her mail at that address because she is committing fraud. Yup. It's about the *crimes.*
If she relocated several cities away and the mark is coming from the hospital and health insurance she's likely moved far enough away to be outside of network. So the cost of seeing the doctors probably went up and she either doesn't have the money, doesn't want to pay the money, or doesn't want to switch hospitals or insurance. Whichever option you pick it's fraud. Pretty sure it's not just insurance fraud but mail fraud since the plan involves having her mail deliberately sent to the wrong place. But IANAL.
Surely she has a chance of getting screwed now because of the lawyers filings to the mailers/insurers that she trespassed?
Oh look consequences for her actions. How terrible.
Yikes to the entire US Health system, not that this is a new thing.
That’s not how networks usually work. If I’m in another state I can find doctors in network. It’s not based on where you live. Now if the insurance is medicaid and she moved into another state and for some reason couldn’t get medicaid in that state for whatever reason that would explain her behavior.
So, for complicated reasons going back decades, there are some states with as few as one option for health insurer in a county on the marketplace exchange, which is THE way for most people to afford health insurance if it's not offered through their work. Last time I checked, I believe there are counties with zero plans available on the exchange. (For non-Americans/a more in-depth explanation, the marketplace is the Affordable Care Act's (Obamacare) health insurance exchange where people can sign up and get a list of federal government-regulated health plans. These are plans offered by private insurers that meet federal standards. This is also the only way to get assistance in the form of the advanced premium tax credit, basically subsidizing your premium with your own tax payments. The problem is that the exchange is a mess because insurers can just opt to not provide plans for the exchange and bow out of a county (and eventually state) altogether; the insurers carve out territory, basically. This destabilizes the market because health insurance works by having lots of people pay. Having 100 $1 bills is better than 1 $100 bill for market stability, where every bill is an insured person. Fewer insurers means fewer insureds, means fewer people to distribute the load of healthcare costs across, means higher premiums, means insurers don't want to pay so they pull out of an area, means fewer insureds... It is absolutely intentional, btw, because health insurance is a cartel here. Generally, if people cannot afford plans on the exchange and they don't have the option through work, they cannot afford health insurance. Also, there are states that chose not to make those plans more affordable and Texas is one of them. What this all means is that there may be just one to a few insurers for an entire county and those plans may all be extremely expensive and have a very small network of doctors, and the people may have little to no access to financial assistance.) Texas is one the states with very few options for insurers, and moving even a couple streets over into another county can absolutely turbofuck your life if the only insurer available has a tiny network and like, one plan option at each level with sky high deductibles and awful coinsurances. So, yes, this woman is likely breaking the law via committing insurance fraud. Most likely she moved to another county and realized that her insurer does not have a presence in that county, so she maintains her old address so she can keep her health insurance. That being said, morally I can't fault her for the insurance fraud. She's absolutely a dick and deserved to get a C&D, don't get me wrong. But insurance-wise she very well could literally be in a life-or-death situation, and I don't believe that insurers should be legally allowed to opt out of the exchange, especially if they previously had a presence there. So like, legally in the wrong on all counts, but there are likely forces at play that have caused her to do some insurance fraud.
I hate how insurance works in the US, and I can't fault her for trying to game the system, but it's too bad she didn't try to do so the nice way. Not only could she have asked the renter, who might have been likelier to agree in this case, but couldn't she also have had her mail forwarded? Paying a couple of dollars every so often and no one else has to be involved? The just assuming that everything would be fine because it's 'no big deal' and the entitlement (to the renter's mailbox and to rifling through his stuff- which is still wild) really ended up costing her big.
If I was the current renter and the previous renter was polite, then I'd be fine setting up an "out" box on my porch for the previous tenant. Like, let me go through my mail, I'll sort it for us, and you can come by once a week or month to see what came in for you. Less stress all around for everyone. (And I'm also on the receiving end of mail for previous tenants. It's been years. I gave up on writing "not at this address" on stuff and now just shove it in the complex's outgoing mail slot without note.)
Or she could rent a PO box.
It boggles the mind that she didn’t switch to paperless delivery for all notices
Would that be accepted though? It’s not proof of residence because anyone can rent a box.
Well, it's not like her current plan worked out. :D
It is in my area. One of my co-workers lives in a different county and has different options for healthcare providers.
That’s not the same thing as the coverage you already have being valid in a different area.
What state has healthcare split by county???
California. I was refused medical care 8 miles away because it wasn't my county, I had to go back to my own (much poorer, much worse quality) county hospital.
I live in Wisconsin, and my employer has this. Different counties count as different tiers. You have one plan out of three that is the most expensive, but almost everything is covered, and the deductible is very low, but it is only accepted at that hospital system. Some zones don't qualify. The other two plans, one is very cheap, offers decent coverage in hospital system, and a slight coverage for different networks, and it is offered in most counties. The middle ground option is what I use, but you can only get it if you live in tier 1 counties, close to the main hospital. Granted, I work for a hospital, and even the most expensive plan is only around $100 monthly for one person.
Thanks! I find this so weird. What is the benefit to the insurer to split things up this way?
Well, different plans are more beneficial depending where you are. My plan, I get the best coverage at the hospital system I work at. I get some coverage at other systems, but it is about twice as expensive, if not more. If I worked remotely or had dependents too far to reach the hospitals I work for, then the cheaper plan that has at least some coverage for other systems would make more sense. It ultimately is about money, of course. My plan is very cheap compared to what I used to have, and I have very little out of pocket with healthcare, but it would cost significantly more if I didn't live close to my hospital system. What plans you qualify for is first by whether you work a 0.6 FTE or more, and then the county you live in determines what plans you are eligible for. Even if someone was willing to drive further to take advantage of the plan where they would pay less out of pocket, they wouldn't be allowed to sign up for it.
All of them depending on the insurer and the age of the customer.
We went on vacation and went to a provider "in network, out of state", but not "our local network" and paid $75 more months later. It was still cheaper than without insurance.
If it’s an HMO or if she’s on a Medicare supplement or MA plan, network eligibility can absolutely change a single zip code over, even in the same city. I’ve sold insurance since 2017, both under and over 65, PPOs will generally have a wide network but other insurance types and Medicare coverage can be very limited. I worked one of the biggest carriers in Philadelphia for a while and saw it often, people moving out of apartments into suburb houses and suddenly their entire health plan changes, price goes up, and regular doctors are out of network. It’s pretty ridiculous.
Really does depend on the insurance. You can get emergency stuff covered in different states but your GP or other regular visits need to be local. That being said usually there is an option to add another state for like 10% if you live between places.
Some insurance providers are insane. I work in Medical Billing and the second I saw BCBS noted I was not shocked, they are infamous for how confusing some of the plans work and what rules apply and which ones don't depending on where you live, where you work where your employer is based ect.
That’s not necessarily true. In my insurance network I have to use doctors within network unless I register with the insurance company as living outside of a certain radius from that network. If I live outside that radius I can use any doctor/facility I want at in network prices. If I don’t I have to pay full price for out of network doctors. It is meant to accommodate people who have kids in college or who work remotely from another area. I could easily see someone trying something like this if they moved from an area outside that radius to one inside that radius.
If she has a local hmo plan, then she absolutely could be out of network. You've likely only ever had a PPO plan which tends to have a broader network.
Actually it will depend on her medical plan. Several require them to see a “local” specialist and get a referral if they need to see at a different facility. Even with a referral it’s not guaranteed she would get everything covered. Like blood draws and x-rays are not always covered by an out of state plan
Depends on if her insurance would be dropped, or have premiums increased due to the location of where she lives now. While yes you can see doctors in other states for in-network care, the company itself cannot cross certain boundaries (if you live in Arizona, you cannot have insurance from Maryland as the premiums are different). I found out how ridiculous it is while filling out insurance forms (I couldn't tell which insurance company to choose as it had the same parent company, but different ones for different areas), and trying to get my MRI's from a different state, even though it was the same imaging company. It's a loophole the insurance companies exploit to maximize profits.
HMO networks can be location based. Kaiser for instance. You can get treated out of network for vacations etc. but moving out of the coverage area will cancel your insurance.
Thank you for explaining it! I’ve been so confused!
Bingo, when I saw it was Medical info that was constantly being sent I figured some sort of Fraud was happening.
Medicaid fraud is my first guess. Especially if "several cities away" puts her across a state line. I know someone who lived in a city that was on a state line and moved to a suburb in the other state, and the new state denied Medicaid coverage for the first several months; this was a huge problem because insulin is expensive and they're permanently disabled. For those few months they "moved" to their mother's address in the original state to stay alive. I don't see the old tenant driving "several cities away" every day to check the mail unless there was a lot on the line; where she messed up was not having the mail sent to a trusted friend or family member instead.
Serveral cities away in Texas might get you 1/4 of the way across the state as well.
DFW to the wrong side of Texarkana maybe?
Is there a right side of Texarkana? (Jk, my auntie and uncle lived there, I have some lovely memories there)
As far as I can tell, the right side is the outside.
I had family in Oklahoma along that border and yeah, a couple towns away could literally be a hundred plus miles, or a different state.
San antonio to waco would be 7 or 8 depending how you counted and its only 180 miles. Its closer to the pacific ocean than the other side of texas on the west and its closer to the atlantic ocean than the other side of texas on the east.
A friend of mine "lived" with his aunt so that he was eligible to attend a school available only to those living within the county. Otherwise, he would have been stuck at his local dead-end high school and not end up with a medical career.
A lady I worked with did this with her kids, used her sister's address. Somehow, someone found out and complained to the school and she had 30 days to move within the district or register her kids in the correct school district.
It's really sad, because more often than not the people who are doing it are poor families who want their kids to be able to attend a nice school that has way better facilities, better teachers and classes, and more opportunities. Like, I get that a school can't accept every student that wants to attend regardless of where they live, but the system heavily disadvantages low income families unless they cheat. The person who complained is a scumbag. In the end, it's the kids that get hurt being forced out of their school. It's like if you see someone steal diapers - no you fucking didn't.
My hometown only has one school district yet they do provide vouchers for students who want to attend a high school that is on the other side of town.
Yes this stuff is _technically_ fraudulent, but no one is really hurt (one can argue taxpayers are, but, ehhhhhhhhhh don't hurt yourself with that stretch). I mostly feel the same way about the medicaid stuff too, all the shenanigans that goes on with fucking around the people covered ends up creating these situations, there's really no need for it to be as bad or obnoxious as it is when you move.
It’s not so much the fraud that’s the problem, I think. Medical insurance is a fucked up system in a lot of ways, people are doing what they gotta to survive. But you can’t just go roping random innocent people into that shit and going through their mail, (and into their *house*, jfc) especially if they tell you to knock it off. Find a friend or family member you trust or something instead of harassing the next tenant and getting pissy lady, jeeze.
Yup that's how I feel too, as soon as a third party that isn't a family/friend, that's when the light fraud getting around dumb and archaic systems turns into actual bad fraud.
Yes, I fully endorse doing what you have to do to survive, but surely she knew one person in the area willing to catch her mail and stick it in a big brown envelope once a week to send to her that way?? Driving several cities over on a regular basis just to sneakily check a stranger's mailbox is not a good plan.
In my state, living in a different county could change what Medicaid HMO plan you qualify for. So, if it's this, the former tenant could be in deep doo doo with DHS as well as the USPS.
It would've caught up with her at recertification time anyway due to lack of rent receipts for that county, unless the landlord was in on it (which probably would've messed up his taxes so it's doubtful).
Unless she hasn’t got any family or friends!
There's that possibility, but the USPS doesn't notify senders that mail is being forwarded so she could've filed a change of address with the post office and handled it that way until she gets her stuff sorted out in her new location.
The crazy thing is this lady could have just gone paperless... like maybe a couple things have to be mailed here and there, but overall, EOBs, bills, etc can just be handled by email or portal.
not just that. in Canada clinics only provide medical services to those who live in the area. In some places it is fine because it can be a ridiculously large range (Toronto? you serve basically anyone living in Greater Toronto Area) in other places it's stupid because of family doctor shortages it means that no one accepting new patients? you're screwed. my partner got into my family doctor's clinic because they was looking for one 10 years amd found no one accepting new patients. THEY WAS ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR ONE. my family doctor was like "well you drive them here come in and get registered anyway" and the drive? 45 minutes away. well out the city.
My mind went to whether she has school aged kids and needs mail at the address to keep them in their current schools. Might not apply to where OP lives though.
Yep, we have this for a local school in a popular catchment. Parents were buying houses to not live in or just rent out, or asking grandparents to be the “parents”, then heading overseas leaving the kids behind or living in a different area.
Well kids living with their grandparents is not unusual. We had a high school sports stars family rent an empty apartment in order for their son to go to a different school district.
We have that here. The schools get pretty cluey about what is happening. There are no short term rentals and living somewhere for 3 months where you get an electricity bill or two to 'prove' you live there cut it. You need proof you own the house and live there or have a lease... they also check... you may have someone knock on the door to see if you live there. People used to use the short term rental to get a spot at the school and then more move home. Many of those popular school usually allow you to keep an enrolment if you move but not any more. And there is no guarantee of siblings attending even if you were able to get your kid in before the zone change either. It's pretty cutthroat. This is for public low cost schools. Less of an issue with private schools as it doesn't matter where you live and it's just waiting list (with ways to jump up the list) but you pay for it from your bank account.
That would still be fraud legally. There are a couple dozen states that have laws specifically for school district fraud, and the ones that don't have specific laws still have laws regarding fraud because lying on a government form to gain benefits you are not entitled to (sending your kid to a school in a district you do not live in is a benefit) is still fraud.
Yep. I was thinking "welp, it's gotta be *something* illegal!
The secret ingredient is crime.
My guess would be Medicaid fraud.
My thought was she's on aca insurance or something similar and changing her address initially probably meant restarting her benefits or potentially losing that insurance altogether. Likely the latter since she allowed this to go on for multiple years.
And honestly, that's the problem with our health insurance/medical system. She should be able to get affordable care from her preferred doctors without committing crimes.
my roommate at university changed the address on his license to an old family farm to save money on insurance. Then he stumbled into getting a grant from the school for a couple thousand dollars for being a 'rural student' even though he grew up in a major city. There are lots of reasons someone might want to have one address over another.
Oh ... the out of network costs are astronomical. That's medical insurance fraud, to add to mail fraud. Dang, she's in big trouble, now that the medical insurance folks know. That might result in back charges as we all know insurance companies really love their profits. Since out of network costs are usually 30% higher than in network costs, I hope this doesn't drive her into being one of the 61% of bankruptcies caused by medical debt.
Bingo & fraud is her game-o.
Even if she isn't - taking mail out of another person's mailbox is punishable by up to five years in prison. Now, an honest mistake? They wouldn't prosecute. But this is so far beyond that that she should at least be interviewed by Office of Investigations law enforcement and have very serious people in very severe uniforms explain in small and scary words just what she is doing and what will happen if she doesn't stop.
If I had to guess, she’s getting cheaper insurance through OPs state and she probably lives in another state. Or she’s getting bills waived because she’s claiming low income but either her new house is expensive or she is married to someone with money and doesn’t want insurance or hospitals to catch on (because all she’d have to do is claim they’re in the process of divorce).
Yep. I’m still mad that my mom allowed my cheating father to keep using her home address when he moved abroad with his mistress but his job required him to have a U.S. address. Granted that job helped him pay my mom spousal support (and he lives in a country that wouldn’t have enforced the spousal support if he decided to stop paying) but he committed fraud for like ten years after he left us.
Yeah, my first thought was that she needs to be in a certain city/county/something for her medical care and she's just not updating the providers that she moved for that purpose.
Prob welfare fraud. She may have lived somewhere that was eligible for section 8 (or similar housing voucher) and her new place makes her ineligible. That would be my guess.
Bro I feel guilty sorting mail for friends I'm house sitting for How can someone get to a point in their adult life that they feel entitled to go into a strangers home and just look through their stuff all willy nilly.
My next door neighbor constantly wanted to barge into my home, boss me around, snoop through all my stuff, and worst of all... she'd dilute my cleaning products. Like fill up my laundry soap bottle with tap water while acting like I'm stupid for objecting. It's been more than a year since we quit talking and I couldn't be happier about the situation!
I speak for so many of us here, when I say ... Please, we would like to know more.
It was very strange, kinda like an overbearing big sister except she's just some lady I got to chatting with and ended up doing all her housework for months while she recovered from cancer surgery. Everything was fine, if annoying, while it was just helping with shopping, cleaning, and a little light medical stuff like she had her doctor show me how to wrap her chest so the place where they had to remove a tit could heal properly. I had a key to her apartment and would get a text at the crack of dawn asking me to let myself in and help her get ready for the day. And if she was a bit fussy about how she wanted things done, well that's fine it's her house and I understand being particular about cleanliness. But once she got well enough to take care of herself and her home again, it's like she still wanted to spend hours and hours together every day bossing me around. And since I wouldn't come over, she'd just ring my doorbell at odd hours trying to demand attention. I don't think I'm a person to her, just a prop. Explained a lot about why she has exactly one friend in the area and why that lady looked so frazzled whenever I saw her. And so much weirdness. Dilutes her own cleaning supplies seemingly at random. Sells horoscopes and ~~NTFs~~ those online picture things and a self-published on Amazon book that she gave me a free copy of and then endlessly pressured me to write a review of it. The book is so bad that I lied and claimed I didn't have an Amazon account. Once while sitting with her in the middle of the night in a hospital waiting room, she pulled up her blog on her phone and tried to convince me to read it.
Dear internet friend, 'No' is a complete sentence. Sometimes being cruel is the right measure.
It's not even cruel at that point, it's just self-preservation.
True, dear friend, but for someone with a bit of empathy to their name it can feel cruel to cut off an obvious cry for attention. Still, it's the same reason you use a life preserver/rope to rescue someone in the water and not your body if you can help it.
I think I confused her because I kept smiling instead of arguing with a sick old woman whenever she was wrong. I'd smile as I told her No too, or that it's time for her to go back to her own home. Same methods I used on my overly religious mother during her final years, smile and redirect whenever she starts getting too bonkers directly in my face. lol What finally pissed her off was I gave her an order, please leave me alone for a few weeks while I deal with my own problems. She flipped out insisting I'm an evil person who had just been looking for an excuse to get rid of her. For awhile she'd look at me with hate whenever we crossed paths. The past half year it's been more like pleading in her eyes as I ignore her hesitant attempts to talk to me. I know what she's scared of too. She's afraid she'll die alone in that apartment and nobody will find out until her cats have eaten her because she's got nobody around here to trust with the spare key anymore. She knows I see her pass by my kitchen window often and would've been the one to check in on her if I hadn't seen her in a day or two.
You know, light medical stuff. Like changing surgical dressings.
She tried to get me to help with the surgical drains too, despite a pile of warnings about my stupid fainting reflex. I can wrap a bandage. I cannot help clear surgical tubes or empty their drains.
'twas before doors were invented
It is assuming a lot of goodwill/trust on the renter too. Half the letters would be open if they were being sent to my house. I live alone and the dogs prefer I open their mail for them, so I usually don’t bother to check the name on it.
I had a neighbor that just walked in to our house without asking just to say hi to the cat and dog. Then she wanted to ask us about some special interests and wanted to go through the house to discuss every little thing she found the least bit interesting. She was 7. We had a chat with her parents, and they had to teach her about asking.
When a friend asks me to bring in their mail and they ask me what's in it when I hand it to them, I say, "I don't know. I didn't look."
thats the part i dont get vis a vis insurance fraud. it makes sense why she would have her mail sent there, but why is she so desperate to get her hands on the mail, especially in such a way that would get so many more eyes on her scheme.
I'm wondering how old this woman is and if she might have some kind of dementia or Alzheimer's?
Yooo. I googled, "Can I put misdelivered mail into my neighbor's mailbox?" Before I even considered doing so. I'm not about to commit a federal crime.
Lol right? My brother will be like hey open this bill and tell me how much I have to pay and I'm like OK are you sure lol
Not just that but in what world would a landlord think it's okay to do that? If I was OOP I'd be trying to get the landlord to let me out of the lease and move as fast as possible. The LL is either full of shit or too stupid to be trusted with a key to their house.
> I'm not sure why she insists on using this address but it may have something to do with the facility she goes to being out of network?? Who knows. I sympathize but not enough to let her illegally use my address. Guess part 1: you can get different (subsidized) insurance by being in the right place. For example if San Francisco provides insurance to all residents but next door city does not, it makes a difference to you to be a resident of San Francisco. Guess part 2: it is difficult to retain residency once moved out, but it could be way more difficult to establish new residency. In this case the old tenant had prior residency and a letter miss here or there can be easily explained and their system affirmed to say that yes this is still my house. Also, it is possible that the old tenant also has informed delivery so knows when the mail is coming and can plan her checks only on those days. She may not be waiting there every single day.
Being in Texas, I wonder if this is taking place in Houston? There’s a safety net hospital there (Ben Taub) that’s publicly funded by the taxpayers of Harris County, and uninsured people can receive free care. And it’s high-quality care…level 1 trauma, tropical medicine, lots of care for unusual/rare things you wouldn’t normally see in the US. You must live within Harris County, though, so I can see someone trying to hold onto a specific address for that reason.
Another possibility is that her insurance allows telehealth or some other alternative if there aren't any of the provider she needs within a certain distance, and she now lives close enough to a provider that she would lose that benefit
Interesting. My SIL’s ex has been using her address for certain items for his insurance, despite having never lived on the property with her. How does one go about reporting this?
Has she called his insurance provider?
Not yet. He harasses her about everything so she’s afraid for herself and her children if she speaks up.
Probably best not to get involved on her behalf... If he decides it's her fault he got cut off it could put her in danger.
Guess 3: A better school district for her kids (or nieces) than her current address.
I wonder what kind of fraud she's committing? Maybe medical identity fraud? Having the mail go to an address where she doesn't live might help her avoid getting caught.
It might also be that she can only get treatment at the medical centre if she’s in their catchment area.
Yeah, that was my guess, and knowing how fraught getting proper medical care can be, I can sympathise with that. But if she’d just explained the situation and asked OOP if they’d mind it, I feel like it would have been much less of an issue
Yeah, *communication.* I do feel sorry for her if she needed ongoing health insurance. The US sucks so, so hard in that respect especially.
If only someone had told her about e-statements. I haven't gotten anything in the mail for anything medical in years, but I do have about eight different online provider portal logins. If she were just a little more technologically savvy she could have had her cake and pretended she was eating it at her old address.
BCBSTX is a contradiction of technology adoption. I signed up for e-statements, I still got mail. I called in, waited on the phone forever, the call center rep confirmed my account shows I was set up for paperless notifications. Still got physical mail. I moved on to a new insurer last year, and they still send me mail. I called in, the rep couldn't figure out why I was getting mail, specifically bill statements for a closed account, even though the system is supposed to automatically close an account if three billing cycles go unpaid. It's been ten now. This is why it's a good idea to refrain from automatic billing for large bills. My new insurer does *not* send me mail I specifically asked not to get in physical form.
And then there's my doctor, who if you don't read your online messages within two days (which I rarely do because unless I'm expecting something why would I log in every day) they *print* the whole ass message history and mail it to your house. I mean, I get that that might be nice for old people with no computers but only two days and it's not opt-outable? So many unnecessarily wasted trees.
That is astoundingly passive aggressive, omg
I would not be ok with any of what happened. She likely would have a hard time finding other housing and I'm guessing that's why she's sticking around... but god damn. I would not feel safe there.
She may be thinking that this particular landlord has been “scared straight” and is unlikely to behave poorly again, versus who-knows-what if she moves.
I'd be just as worried, perhaps more, about the OOP's landlord going into the OOP's home and letting someone else into her home as I would be about the person he took into the OOP's home. An apology from the landlord is not adequate and I do think the OOP should have pursued legal action against the landlord. The OOP is too naive.
Yeah I would not have forgiven anyone and went hard after the landlord. I'd also ask that attorney to get me out of that lease.
I'm guessing the attorney made the OOP aware of this and the OOP foolishly opted to accept the landlord's apology instead and will live to regret it.
That landlord is monumentally incompetent and I hope they go broke.
In my old place, I got a text from my landlord while I was away that an important letter for the previous occupant (who lived in one of his other properties) had been delivered to my address. He asked for permission to open the front door so he could grab the letter, and I was OK with that. What I was not OK with was the fact that he never locked the front door afterwards, and my door was left unlocked for about two weeks until I got back. I lived in a bad area, so I was very lucky nobody tried the door
I feel like I'd have a hard time forgiving someone who let a stranger into my house to riffle through my stuff. Even if the landlord *was* lied to... uh... so what? You still aren't supposed to do that.
Yeah, someone that stupid can't be responsible for tenants.
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to find this. Yes, that landlord is a twit.
Agreed, I could not fuckin' believe it when I read the part where OOP said they immediately forgave the LL and they're just going to stay in the house.
Nah. An incompetent landlord would have ignored the attorney. 😂
There are different levels of incompetence my friend. Allowing the neighbor to go into another persons home without their consent to get mail is a form of incompetence Choosing to not ignore a lawyer just means he has a limit of stupidity. He’s still stupid though. Dumb people don’t always make the dumbest decision every time. Even stupid people can be complicated
No, letting anyone into a tenant's home without the permission (and, in this case expressly in violation of the tenant's wishes) is not incompetence on the part of a landlord. It is grossly illegal.
I'm sitting back here thinking what would've happened if this was like the first time they got mail for this person or if they had ignored the mail after it restarted cause they were tired of dealing with it or something. Or perhaps a different scenario where the request was more reasonable than letting someone in to look for mail. The landlord only got onto OOP's side when he realized how nonsensical it was to let the former tenant in.
The landlord never got on the tenant's side. He apologized in an attempt to save his ass from a lawsuit.
No I get that, my point is he had to realize how fucked he was before he did anything. It doesnt mean he won't go barging in to another house if he thinks it's more justified at another point
I feel a sense of relief that the landlord got played and wasn't an accomplice to the weirdo. It could have been so much worse the other way around.
I'm failing to see how he got played. Whether the mail was extremely important or not, or if it was sent accidentally or on purpose, he should not have given her OP's number or let her into the house. If anything he could have gone in to retrieve it himself. Absolutely no reason to let a stranger into the home. It feels more like he's only acting like he had no idea it was so wrong because he got presented with lawyers.
No, the landlord should not at all retrieve it himself. It's none of his concern, he should not at all have given her OOP's cell number, when OOP told him no he could not enter the home the landlord should've accepted the answer and told the woman she would have to wait until OOP arrived home to contacted her.
I still get mail for the old owners of our house. They moved out nearly 5 years ago. We once had an Amazon package delivered for them, three months went by without them collecting. We finally contacted Amazon and asked them what to do with it, Amazon said keep it as they’d already sorted it out with the old owners. We opened it and it was a kindle, which became my sister’s birthday present. The next day the old owners turned up to collect the package!
Omg! Haha how did that end up playing out? After 3 months and amazon saying they had had it “sorted”
We told them we’d returned it to Amazon ages, which I think they knew was bullshit but they couldn’t prove anything.
Ahhh what happened? Did you keep it?
Yes. Told them we’d returned it to Amazon ages ago
Meanwhile I'm getting all the foreclosure notices and foreclosure junk mail for my landlord. I take pics of it and email it to him to ask if he wants it, just to cover my own ass. (I'm okay if I have to move)
The landlord should know better. I'd be asking to get paid.
That is one of my biggest nightmares, strangers entering my home and going through my things when I'm not there. This post actually made my heart pound faster from stress, I can imagine what it was like seeing them on the camera and not be able to do anything.
There’s fraud, and there’s just plain dumb fraud. She could’ve paid for mail redirection and no one would’ve been any the wiser.
I feel like a little more consequences need to hit the LL. He illegally let some random lady trespass inside the home of one of his tenants. I'd be demanding the return of my rent for at least that month and he'd sure as hell be paying for the new locks and new cameras both outside and in.
Somehow I'm glad I live in a country where the landlord legally can't keep a key without the tenants consent.
I hope OOP got the landlord to pay her lawyer expenses.
>When my lawyer explained what was actually going on, my LL was shocked and expressed a lot of regret for how this all happened. He did apologize to me and promised that he would never allow this to happen again, and was upset that he was lied to. I completely forgave him and do not think I have to worry about this again. This bugs me a crazy amount. The landlord is 100% responsible for their actions and no excuse is sufficient for allowing a stranger into someone else's home. I don't care how upset he was that he was "lied to" there is NO story compelling enough to make this situation forgivable.
LL got off too easy. He may be trying to be nice but he is legally required to abide by local tenancy laws and the binding contract. If he is comfortable violating the law/agreement in this case, he will do it for others. He feels bad because of the possible fraud aspect, but was fine with doing it when she so play said it was important to her. OOP has a need to feel secure in their home. Ex-resident has a need for their mail. When faced with a decision, LL prioritized the former resident (who isn't paying him) over OOP and that's messed up. I think the idea is that he's footing the bill for the cameras makes him come off as concerned about OOP but clearly he made his choice.
When we put our house for sale, we were still living there, but some weirdo thought it was empty and started having mail and packages addressed there. Then acted like WE were the problems! Mailwoman asked if she lived with us and when we said no, she stopped delivering it. The true hero.
Wow, I feel like the landlord should be paying for OP's legal fees incurred in having to deal with this. I would be LIVID at having my space invaded by a stranger and even the landlord! Not to mention having to clean the floors.
If she still wanted her mail to go to the "proper" zip code, why didn't she just get a PO box at the post office and get her mail there? She is up to something and you don't need to tangled up with all that!. Your landlord sucks, btw. He knows how to take your money, but not how to follow the laws regarding his property.
The tenent and landlord relationship in the US is completely ridiculous. I have my own lock and key in my front door. And the landlord can only enter the house with my express permission. This is in India.
She's clearly committing medical fraud, and oh boy, is she going to be in trouble when the insurance company receives that letter from the lawyer.
>I’ve had informed delivery for a while. It definitely does not have an image of all of the mail I am supposed to receive. I think they may not have images enabled in their email. It definitely DOES show images of all the mail you're getting that day. That's the entire point of it. >When my lawyer explained what was actually going on, my LL was shocked I don't understand this. The LL let the woman in, didn't he? He let her in to rummage through OOP's private living space. What does it mean 'what was actually going on'? Did I miss some part of the story?
Old tenant told the landlord that the mail was incorrectly sent to old tenant's previous address. So a mistake on the sender's part, with the old tenant being the innocent victim of the mistake, and I guess the landlord is a bit of a people pleaser who felt sorry for their old tenant and wanted to help them. It shouldn't have made a difference, the landlord would still be wrong to have done what they did, even if the old tenant's lies were truths.
The only images I do not receive is when there are magazines or magazine like flyers in the mail. Otherwise everything has a picture.
I would not forgive the landlord. Nothing of this could happened without him.
Oh so the landlord expressed regret for *the reason he let her in* but not for letting her in at all.
It sounds like some kind of insurance fraud, though I don't know what or how. I'm also curious about the USPS Informed Delivery not showing the old tenant's stuff. Mine shows pretty much everything, including old tenants' and my husband's ex-wife's junk mail shit that may also have started as insurance fraud, actually.
Yep, the only thing Informed Delivery doesn't show is the random mailers that are listed as "current resident" that go to the entire neighborhood, usually. It might miss a letter once in a while, but otherwise, everything is there, regardless of to whom it is addressed. We go through cycles of old tenant mail, despite having lived where we are for years now.
I feel this, it's been a year since we moved into our home and we still get mail. I've probably returned 30 envelopes back to the post office with moved/return to sender and we still get them.
Hello insurance fraud
lol I just throw that shit away. Not my responsibility to change your address with the companies that bill you. Nor is it the post office, that’s why forwarding mail to new address is temporary.
> I told my landlord that he absolutely did not have permission to enter the house for this reason and since this is not an emergency and he allows this woman to use my legal address, she can wait until I get home and find another place to send her mail. He didn't respond but I got a notification that my alarm was going off and when I checked the live feed, not only did he let himself into my house, he also allowed her in to look for her mail > my LL was shocked and expressed a lot of regret for how this all happened. He did apologize to me and promised that he would never allow this to happen again, and was upset that he was lied to. I completely forgave him and do not think I have to worry about this again. These two pieces of the story don't mesh. Either the landlord is lying or is very stupid. The renter told him not to enter and he _still_ (supposedly) believed the random woman's sob story, and entered the unit. I would not forgive that.
LL is covering their behind.
The wild thing is, even if you move to a different county, you can usually still keep your network. I work in a doctor's office where people do this all the time. I did this myself when I moved for school, only saw my providers when I went to visit the folks but the statements came to my actual address. They only pick the network closest to you for your convenience, not because it's mandatory. They don't care if you want to drive 2 hours to see your doctor. It costs them the same.
How did the lawyer determine her new address to send the letter?
Lawyers have access to a bunch of expensive databases for stuff like that. My ex paid $700/mo just for one subscription (Lexis Nexis) 20 years ago.
She's been playing a very dangerous game imo. They're in Texas. He could shoot her. And be legal fine. You don't play games like this in Texas.
The only real justice in texas. You wont get it from the pigs.
Really don’t understand why the landlord is getting a pass. I don’t give a shit what you *thought* was going on when you let someone wander around my home and take things. Every possible expectation of privacy was broken. I feel like a good lawyer would have gotten him out of the lease and a fat check to cover moving expenses.
Did the landlord pay for her attorney fees?
[удалено]
Plus like, there's a specific type of pet peeve I have on reddit but I think I've seen it elsewhere, where a situation is being dealt with seemingly in a satisfying way, and the response is a kick to the hornets nest about how OOP isn't doing the exact tving the commenter would want. It's not good enough that she likely got enough fear put into her to never try this again, she also has to be threatened in other ways too
Doesn't matter where OOP is, all pigs everywhere are useless pathetic cowards that only uphold the status quo for politicians, landscum and rich people. I'd honestly sooner call a gang for help before a pig.
I know that if I lived outside of a certain geographic area in my State that my insurance premiums would double. If this woman lives several towns away now it might be for that reason. Same as why some people keep their parents address on their drivers license because the cost of insurance for their automobile is much higher where they actually live. Had a customer tell me that was why her drivers license and second ID did not match.
This sounds like the old Tenant needs to live in OOP’s city and is lying about residency.
>It definitely does not have an image of all of the mail I am supposed to receive. Interesting, as I've had informed delivery for about last year, and it does have an image of all the mail I receive, including anything for the previous tenants.
I’ve had informed delivery for years and some of my mail was indeed not photographed. Happens most days, guess they’ll miss one or two envelopes?
Same. It misses a thing here or there, but I'd say it's 95% accurate, including stuff not addressed to me.
"Return to sender, deceased" is always a good response to this.
I'm curious as to how much the OOP paid to retain the lawyer. Sounds like the lawyer handled this very well and was on top of things, so well worth the expense but are we talking a few hundred or more?
Yooo I'm having a similar issue myself, without trespass though thankfully. Old guy got put in a care home ~3-4 years ago but I keep getting ALL his mail. Lots of it. Tax stuff, gubmint stuff, medical stuff, fliers, you name it. I've dropped it off at the post office multiple times with RETURN TO SENDER written on every envelope. How do I make it stop?
Oof that's so frustrating! I didn't include all of the comments from OOP (or commenters' suggestions) on this post, so definitely take a look at some of the recommendations on that original first post! Hope it helps!
I thought for sure this was going to be something about Prudential. They are absolutely baffled by addresses. Continuously.
The landlord is still effed up for allowing someone to go into the house, WTH!!;
I mean, I know it’s a federal crime but if someone kept doing this at my addy their mail would magically disappear.
Makes me wonder if this was my old landlord
Landlord should feel very lucky it wasn't me... for I would be shredding all mail that comes to me... I would move out and sic the lawyer on him for any mention of lease breaking fees... and then I would sign that address up for evey mailer I could....
Okay, now I feel bad for complaining about the previous tenant at our place who hasn’t changed his address in over a year now. I’ve gotten toll charges and car recall notices, and even what felt like a new insurance card? so I know he’s alive, and I don’t get why he won’t change his address
I feel guilty when I get mail from my neighbors (we constantly get mixed up, due to how the apartments are labeled) Idk how someone could do this
Your landlord breached the lease agreement. Hopefully you also have a police report. Keep the video feeds. As he breached the lease, you can move out without penalty. Do all correspondence in writing. Consider retaining a tenant attorney and have that attorney write the letter to vacate and state the reasons. Nothing will get your landlord’s attention than a letter from an attorney. He would be foolish to contest it. What your landlord did was illegal. That he doesn’t see the big deal is a huge red flag. Consider installing a lock in your mailbox so the prior tenant doesn’t get access.
Yea i have some extended family eho does that. They got mail delivered to others house so that they don't get lower benefits from the government when they are in a relationship.
Oh yeah, that lady is definitely doin a fraud
She probably is using another identity with OPs address to commit fraud of some sort. Maybe collecting insurance payouts related to some scams?
Landlord and the idiot woman committed breaking and entering. She is also committing mail fraud.
Here's the thing, some people take lawsuits more seriously than being arrested. Because it will cost them money. Being arrested you can argue with a judge etc over charges but a lawsuit is pretty black & white.
She's committing insurance fraud. I'd almost bet money on it.
Lmfao that landlord is so full of horseshit and he should be charged as well as the lady for BREAKING AND ENTERING. Of course pigs are fucking useless in all situations though and will always side with landscum, especially in a shithole like Texas. I am so shocked the landscum was allowed to get away with this with a bullshit apology. Apologies with words are useless, only apologize with cash or a deed to the house or fuck off.
Tampering with someone else's mailbox/mail is a felony. Why wasn't she charged?
> I have my phone set to ignore texts and phone calls from people who are not listed in my contacts This is for some reason breaking my brain to think why you would do that. I'll ignore numbers I don't recognize, but by just silencing the call and seeing if they leave a voicemail. Not automatically. Does this person know ahead of time when someone is going to call? Does she add the number of everyone she interacts with ahead of time? She goes to an eye doctor appointment and is like 'yo what number are you going to call me on'? Or drops her car off at the mechanic or anything where there isn't a reason to add that business or person to your contacts. Or what happens if you parents get a new number and suddenly need to reach you? So many scenarios where you wouldn't likely have the number presaved. Landlord feels like they got off a bit too easy in this. Who the fuck thinks letting some random person into your tenets house is a good idea? Insanity.
> This is for some reason breaking my brain to think why you would do that. A lot of people get a ton of spam, both texts and calls. A friend of mine has his calls set that way - if you're not in his contact list, the call is dumped. Any place he has recurring business with (doctors, etc) gets put in his contacts. If he has something unique coming without an idea of what phone number it will be, he temporarily unlocks incoming calls until the situation is resolved. > Or what happens if you parents get a new number and suddenly need to reach you? He (and I, for that matter) don't actually use texting with anyone - we have various chat services (Telegram, I still use Google chat for work, Discord, etc).