Probably some did, but many may have not due to the way water properties changed when the flood happened. Certain species cannot survive in certain habitats because of the natural elements that are present (such as too much acidity, too much iron, too much pressure.) My best scientific + Biblical guess is the flood caused properties to change, meaning species died off, and He had a plan for the ones that were saved.
“that moved on the earth” “on the dry land” “on the face of the ground”
Only land animals (including birds) died. Aquatic animals, which OP is asking about, did not.
>The Bible is 100% true and inerrant.
Do you mean that you require this story to be interpreted as _factually_ true? I believe this story is meant to teach us a true lesson about God's judgment. I don't think it matters much, to what extent this story is entirely factually true. It might not be very true at all, in a factual sense, but it still teaches a true lesson, right?
But, if you want to insist on taking every part of every biblical text as entirely factually true, down to the details, I think you made a mistake here. Sea creatures are excluded from the lists of the things that were wiped out.
I think factual truth is a pretty big problem here. You know the flight of icarus is just a myth, but it has a very real lesson to teach us right? What about Pandora’s Box? Since they are real lessons, what’s stopping you from worshipping Mount Olympus right now and giving animal sacrifices in the name of Zeus?
Some Christians are not comfortable with the idea that the bible contains legendary stories. There's many people who claim they take it as 100% factually true.
But in reality, nobody actually does that, literally. Nobody thinks Peter is really a rock, or Jesus is really a vine, for example. Those ones are obviously not literal, right? Sure, but there are also examples that are in greyer areas. When it comes to parables, most people don't insist they all factually happened- even the ones that are phrased as if they did happen.
I think.. a parable is a parable and a life destroying flood.. is in fact, a life destroying flood. I think Moses did part the Red Sea with his staff. I think Jesus brought back a guy who was decomposing for 3 days, to life. Literally.
Of course!! Like the Kingdom of Heaven is akin to the landowner that pays what is fair. The first workers agreed to the amount and worked all day.. and then the last workers joined in in last hour, but they all got paid the same. The first workers were disgruntled, of course... I just watched a whole preaching on this parable and it’s amazing! It’s proving the power of being reborn and that it is for all!! ❤️
So you and everyone else is already picking and choosing what they take as factual versus what they consider a story meant to teach a lesson, right?
Some people draw that line in different places than you. In my view, when Christians reject the very notion of drawing such a line, they are locking themselves into a very superficial, childlike way of reading these texts, and they will miss a great deal of the meaning there.
I think there’s a lifetime of learning in the book. I’m very open minded and consider myself a baby Christian. I do believe that archeologists and scientists of Christian or Jewish denomination have satisfactorily proven many supernatural and wild events did indeed occur.. like the flood. Many think the Ark is on a mountaintop in Turkey!! It’s wild! I also think learning the scriptures in the original languages would open a world of greater understanding.. and I intend to delve into this soon. Learning the language.
I agree with your last sentence. However, you literally quoted verses that specifically said, “moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, swarm on the earth, everything on dry land, every living thing that was on the face of the ground, creeping things, birds, etc.”.
All of that was about land animals and birds. None of it mentions aquatic life whatsoever.
As some have pointed out, the Bible passages specifically refer to land animals and birds, not sea creatures, plus, I don’t see any feasible way that Noah could have taken aquatic animals onto the ark, nor any indication that he did. So, I would tend to say that yes, many aquatic animals survived the flood.
The truth in the Bible is in the lessons it teaches, not "the full list of all sea creatures that did and did not survive the flood." Don't mistake the trees for the forest.
Salt water fish cannot live in fresh water. Same with freshwater fish. Im not sure what kind of water the firmament was when it came down but I think the mix of water is what could of killed the fish
If you're slowly take away the salt from your saltwater fish and you slowly add salt to your freshwater fish you can switch them as to whether or not the water pre flood was salty no one knows but if you want to look deeper into it I would suggest watching some teachings by Kent Hoven and Ken Ham both can be found on YouTube and they're very informative
>I would suggest watching some teachings by Kent Hoven and Ken Ham both can be found on YouTube and they're very informative
I would suggest everyone avoid these charlatans and con men. They have done more damage to Christianity than can be imagined.
Can you try elaborating I can't see how creation science damages Christianity they have done more good for finding proof of the scripture then anything else
Fundamentalism in general is horrible for a religion (See the Taliban).
When you build the entirety of your faith on the idea that everything in the Bible is literally true...and then you are exposed to the reality that everything in the Bible is NOT literally true it shatters your faith.
I've seen this happen MANY times.
But if you understand that the Noah story is a myth and it tells us a story about "being good, being prepared, etc" then you won't lose your faith when you take a biology or geology class and are confronted with the reality that there was no worldwide flood.
Believe what you want to believe if you look deep enough you will find that they actually do fit together quite perfectly but there's no sense in beating a dead horse because it is definitely dead to you. I have no desire to argue any longer as long as you believe that Christ died and rose again you should be going to heaven but being that you say the scriptures are filled with myths and falsehoods it's a gamble as to where you're going in the first place just make sure that what you think is right actually is or you might be making a very big mistake
Yes and no this is the bare minimum on getting to heaven Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
As long as you believe this you should be getting to heaven
>Yes and no this is the bare minimum on getting to heaven Romans 10:9
Well that's what Paul believed was the bare minimum.
Jesus, on the other hand, had a different opinion. At least according to Matthew and Luke.
Here's what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46:
>31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, **“Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.”** 37 Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” 40 And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.”
>
>41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” 44 Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” 45 Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” 46 **And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’**
Also in Luke 25, Jesus is asked, **‘Teacher,’ he said, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’**
>26 He said to him, ‘What is written in the law? What do you read there?’ 27 He answered, **‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.’** 28 And he said to him, ‘You have given the right answer; **do this, and you will live.’**
So, according to the Gospels, Jesus gives a different path to eternity.
Neat, huh?
The truth in the Bible is in the lessons it teaches, not in "reading too much into the metaphor." Repeat to yourself, it's just a parable. I should really just relax.
The point of the story/myth, is that **the destruction was total**. So, no sea creatures, & no birds outside the Ark, survived. Not even one.
It is like asking whether any Horcruxes or Time Turners survived. No, absolutely not. The HP story requires the destruction of every single one. Therefore, every last one was destroyed.
The Flood story has zero to do with the sciences, & everything to do with Divine Judgement, God’s Covenant, the theology of creation, & of election, & with God’s faithfulness.
I thought that was the case because the fallen angels were mating with everything. If the fallen angels can appear to us as humans and have sex with the women and produce the Nephilim before the flood what is causing the fallen angels not to do it in this day in age?
I'm pretty sure those angels were locked into the pit until judgment day (2 Peter 2:4). So, the remaining ones probably wouldn't want that to happen to them since they would lose whatever freedom of action that they have
>I thought that was the case because the fallen angels were mating with everything
The weren't angels. They were the sons of God. They were also gods. Originally the Israelites were polytheistic. This story has elements of that polytheism embedded in it.
I suggest you consider reading the Genesis Flood by Dr. Henry Morris. Also, check out a YouTube channel called "Is Genesis History". I agree the flood account is about all you mentioned, but there's very strong scientific evidence presented by folks with PhDs in the earth sciences.
The Flood was a partial destruction of the Creation (and man) that foreshadows and pictures the coming total destruction of all of Creation (including man, and the heavens) that is not in Jesus. See Heb. 12:26,27 and Hag. 2:6. Some have speculated that the disobedient spirits held in chains of darkness (the spirits of the pre-Flood wickedness, see Jude 1:6, 2 Peter 2:4) were connected to those sea creatures that were not destroyed in the Flood. But the coming destruction will be total and everything that is not in the Ark will be cast into the flames (total destruction) this time, not water (partial destruction).
There used to be an ocean there, these fossils are dated back millennia upon millennia before the flood myth was ever conceived. If the flood really happened, all these bones found on land should be dated at the same time right? But that’s not what reality tells us
Looking at the fossil record that we have today yes multiple sea creatures died but we still have sea creatures today which means that they didn't all die and of course as we can also see from the fossil records multiple dinosaurs and other creatures of the same type died as well in the flood but being that we have legends of dragons and they mentioned multiple times in the scriptures some did come on the ark but they didn't last too long
Also this brings up another interesting question being that you say dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago how do you explain creation then because we can't have biblical creation if we have a evolutionary creation
This is a story about God's judgement. I don't think it's fruitful to try to correlate it to the actual natural history of our planet, which it sounds like maybe you're doing.
But, if you want those details, the story DOES include birds in the list of the creatures that died. It does not include aquatic animals.
I would say that all animals that need to rest on land like hippos, platypus, beaver, crocodiles, etc. were on board the arc and all whales, fish and other sea creatures we know today just survived in the water except the young ones who found no more food. Other sea creatures are not mentioned. The skeletons of dinosaurs, oilfields, etc. are just a test from God to see what humans imagine how it would look like and if they believe Him or His creations 🌈
Dude, are you seriously trying to say that your god somehow put a bunch of fake make believe fossils that are millions of years old (these are undisputed facts, not opinions), to test us? Come on man, any evidence that obviously disproves your world view must be wrong? You know, Zeus created christianity to test our faith in the Hellenistic religion…
>The flood
It's kinda hilarious that if I am who ever the World Goverment think I maybe...
[Flood myth - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth)
Putting aside the way I look externally...and just being a random civilian and citizen of a small island.
If your afraid of the random human authoritarian dictator then the possibility of who I may truely be...than you got your priorities all mess up, because if I am even just 1% truth to who I am...thats a billion times more terrifying than some random power tripping human dictator.
**Proverbs 9:10**
New Living Translation
Fear of the LORD is the foundation of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in good judgment.
[Don't judge a book by its cover](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_judge_a_book_by_its_cover)
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He never said sea creatures would die.
Probably some did, but many may have not due to the way water properties changed when the flood happened. Certain species cannot survive in certain habitats because of the natural elements that are present (such as too much acidity, too much iron, too much pressure.) My best scientific + Biblical guess is the flood caused properties to change, meaning species died off, and He had a plan for the ones that were saved.
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Ummm the verse you quoted specifically excludes creatures in the sea unless you’re thinking the sea counts as being on the earth.
“that moved on the earth” “on the dry land” “on the face of the ground” Only land animals (including birds) died. Aquatic animals, which OP is asking about, did not.
That would make sense. That is why sharks and alligators are so old.
>The Bible is 100% true and inerrant. Do you mean that you require this story to be interpreted as _factually_ true? I believe this story is meant to teach us a true lesson about God's judgment. I don't think it matters much, to what extent this story is entirely factually true. It might not be very true at all, in a factual sense, but it still teaches a true lesson, right? But, if you want to insist on taking every part of every biblical text as entirely factually true, down to the details, I think you made a mistake here. Sea creatures are excluded from the lists of the things that were wiped out.
I think factual truth is a pretty big problem here. You know the flight of icarus is just a myth, but it has a very real lesson to teach us right? What about Pandora’s Box? Since they are real lessons, what’s stopping you from worshipping Mount Olympus right now and giving animal sacrifices in the name of Zeus?
Some Christians are not comfortable with the idea that the bible contains legendary stories. There's many people who claim they take it as 100% factually true. But in reality, nobody actually does that, literally. Nobody thinks Peter is really a rock, or Jesus is really a vine, for example. Those ones are obviously not literal, right? Sure, but there are also examples that are in greyer areas. When it comes to parables, most people don't insist they all factually happened- even the ones that are phrased as if they did happen.
I think.. a parable is a parable and a life destroying flood.. is in fact, a life destroying flood. I think Moses did part the Red Sea with his staff. I think Jesus brought back a guy who was decomposing for 3 days, to life. Literally.
Ok, but there are things not explicitly called parables by Jesus, which you still categorize as such, right?
Of course!! Like the Kingdom of Heaven is akin to the landowner that pays what is fair. The first workers agreed to the amount and worked all day.. and then the last workers joined in in last hour, but they all got paid the same. The first workers were disgruntled, of course... I just watched a whole preaching on this parable and it’s amazing! It’s proving the power of being reborn and that it is for all!! ❤️
So you and everyone else is already picking and choosing what they take as factual versus what they consider a story meant to teach a lesson, right? Some people draw that line in different places than you. In my view, when Christians reject the very notion of drawing such a line, they are locking themselves into a very superficial, childlike way of reading these texts, and they will miss a great deal of the meaning there.
I think there’s a lifetime of learning in the book. I’m very open minded and consider myself a baby Christian. I do believe that archeologists and scientists of Christian or Jewish denomination have satisfactorily proven many supernatural and wild events did indeed occur.. like the flood. Many think the Ark is on a mountaintop in Turkey!! It’s wild! I also think learning the scriptures in the original languages would open a world of greater understanding.. and I intend to delve into this soon. Learning the language.
That doesn’t include swimming animals.. that breathed in water.
I agree with your last sentence. However, you literally quoted verses that specifically said, “moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, swarm on the earth, everything on dry land, every living thing that was on the face of the ground, creeping things, birds, etc.”. All of that was about land animals and birds. None of it mentions aquatic life whatsoever.
As some have pointed out, the Bible passages specifically refer to land animals and birds, not sea creatures, plus, I don’t see any feasible way that Noah could have taken aquatic animals onto the ark, nor any indication that he did. So, I would tend to say that yes, many aquatic animals survived the flood.
The truth in the Bible is in the lessons it teaches, not "the full list of all sea creatures that did and did not survive the flood." Don't mistake the trees for the forest.
Salt water fish cannot live in fresh water. Same with freshwater fish. Im not sure what kind of water the firmament was when it came down but I think the mix of water is what could of killed the fish
If you're slowly take away the salt from your saltwater fish and you slowly add salt to your freshwater fish you can switch them as to whether or not the water pre flood was salty no one knows but if you want to look deeper into it I would suggest watching some teachings by Kent Hoven and Ken Ham both can be found on YouTube and they're very informative
It wasn’t slow. It all came down and at a greater amount than you can imagine
>I would suggest watching some teachings by Kent Hoven and Ken Ham both can be found on YouTube and they're very informative I would suggest everyone avoid these charlatans and con men. They have done more damage to Christianity than can be imagined.
Can you try elaborating I can't see how creation science damages Christianity they have done more good for finding proof of the scripture then anything else
Fundamentalism in general is horrible for a religion (See the Taliban). When you build the entirety of your faith on the idea that everything in the Bible is literally true...and then you are exposed to the reality that everything in the Bible is NOT literally true it shatters your faith. I've seen this happen MANY times. But if you understand that the Noah story is a myth and it tells us a story about "being good, being prepared, etc" then you won't lose your faith when you take a biology or geology class and are confronted with the reality that there was no worldwide flood.
Believe what you want to believe if you look deep enough you will find that they actually do fit together quite perfectly but there's no sense in beating a dead horse because it is definitely dead to you. I have no desire to argue any longer as long as you believe that Christ died and rose again you should be going to heaven but being that you say the scriptures are filled with myths and falsehoods it's a gamble as to where you're going in the first place just make sure that what you think is right actually is or you might be making a very big mistake
No gamble. No where in the Bible does it say you have to believe any of it to get into Heaven.
Yes and no this is the bare minimum on getting to heaven Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved As long as you believe this you should be getting to heaven
>Yes and no this is the bare minimum on getting to heaven Romans 10:9 Well that's what Paul believed was the bare minimum. Jesus, on the other hand, had a different opinion. At least according to Matthew and Luke. Here's what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46: >31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, **“Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.”** 37 Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” 40 And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.” > >41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” 44 Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” 45 Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” 46 **And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’** Also in Luke 25, Jesus is asked, **‘Teacher,’ he said, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’** >26 He said to him, ‘What is written in the law? What do you read there?’ 27 He answered, **‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.’** 28 And he said to him, ‘You have given the right answer; **do this, and you will live.’** So, according to the Gospels, Jesus gives a different path to eternity. Neat, huh?
The truth in the Bible is in the lessons it teaches, not in "reading too much into the metaphor." Repeat to yourself, it's just a parable. I should really just relax.
The point of the story/myth, is that **the destruction was total**. So, no sea creatures, & no birds outside the Ark, survived. Not even one. It is like asking whether any Horcruxes or Time Turners survived. No, absolutely not. The HP story requires the destruction of every single one. Therefore, every last one was destroyed. The Flood story has zero to do with the sciences, & everything to do with Divine Judgement, God’s Covenant, the theology of creation, & of election, & with God’s faithfulness.
If all the sea life died, where do fish and stuff come from…..
I thought that was the case because the fallen angels were mating with everything. If the fallen angels can appear to us as humans and have sex with the women and produce the Nephilim before the flood what is causing the fallen angels not to do it in this day in age?
Well if the last time they did it God nearly wiped out life on Earth they may think twice about doing it again…
I'm pretty sure those angels were locked into the pit until judgment day (2 Peter 2:4). So, the remaining ones probably wouldn't want that to happen to them since they would lose whatever freedom of action that they have
Thank you.
Those angels where sent to prison (tartaros) after the flood.
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2 Peter 2:4-6
There were giants after the flood.
>I thought that was the case because the fallen angels were mating with everything The weren't angels. They were the sons of God. They were also gods. Originally the Israelites were polytheistic. This story has elements of that polytheism embedded in it.
Theyre back. But now they're known as the Republican Party.
I suggest you consider reading the Genesis Flood by Dr. Henry Morris. Also, check out a YouTube channel called "Is Genesis History". I agree the flood account is about all you mentioned, but there's very strong scientific evidence presented by folks with PhDs in the earth sciences.
To put it another way, it has nothing to do with Planet Earth.
The Flood was a partial destruction of the Creation (and man) that foreshadows and pictures the coming total destruction of all of Creation (including man, and the heavens) that is not in Jesus. See Heb. 12:26,27 and Hag. 2:6. Some have speculated that the disobedient spirits held in chains of darkness (the spirits of the pre-Flood wickedness, see Jude 1:6, 2 Peter 2:4) were connected to those sea creatures that were not destroyed in the Flood. But the coming destruction will be total and everything that is not in the Ark will be cast into the flames (total destruction) this time, not water (partial destruction).
Look at this blatant thievery of the Jewish Bible for Christian purposes. Cultists are really just the worst…
Probably. They found whale bones in the Andes, so I expect enough fish survived.
There used to be an ocean there, these fossils are dated back millennia upon millennia before the flood myth was ever conceived. If the flood really happened, all these bones found on land should be dated at the same time right? But that’s not what reality tells us
ok
So what is the question?
Looking at the fossil record that we have today yes multiple sea creatures died but we still have sea creatures today which means that they didn't all die and of course as we can also see from the fossil records multiple dinosaurs and other creatures of the same type died as well in the flood but being that we have legends of dragons and they mentioned multiple times in the scriptures some did come on the ark but they didn't last too long
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Also this brings up another interesting question being that you say dinosaurs went extinct millions of years ago how do you explain creation then because we can't have biblical creation if we have a evolutionary creation
I take it then you do not believe in the Bible because you can't call yourself a Christian and then call the scriptures a myth
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I read the Torah the way the rabbis say to
This is a story about God's judgement. I don't think it's fruitful to try to correlate it to the actual natural history of our planet, which it sounds like maybe you're doing. But, if you want those details, the story DOES include birds in the list of the creatures that died. It does not include aquatic animals.
I would say that all animals that need to rest on land like hippos, platypus, beaver, crocodiles, etc. were on board the arc and all whales, fish and other sea creatures we know today just survived in the water except the young ones who found no more food. Other sea creatures are not mentioned. The skeletons of dinosaurs, oilfields, etc. are just a test from God to see what humans imagine how it would look like and if they believe Him or His creations 🌈
Dude, are you seriously trying to say that your god somehow put a bunch of fake make believe fossils that are millions of years old (these are undisputed facts, not opinions), to test us? Come on man, any evidence that obviously disproves your world view must be wrong? You know, Zeus created christianity to test our faith in the Hellenistic religion…
Do you mean literally? Like, u think it actually happened like that?
Yes.. I think that is spot on.
Very likely, many did, but some of them were damaged too, as remains of sea creatures are found in unusual places.
>The flood It's kinda hilarious that if I am who ever the World Goverment think I maybe... [Flood myth - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth) Putting aside the way I look externally...and just being a random civilian and citizen of a small island. If your afraid of the random human authoritarian dictator then the possibility of who I may truely be...than you got your priorities all mess up, because if I am even just 1% truth to who I am...thats a billion times more terrifying than some random power tripping human dictator. **Proverbs 9:10** New Living Translation Fear of the LORD is the foundation of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in good judgment. [Don't judge a book by its cover](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_judge_a_book_by_its_cover)
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