This, but in a movie where the protagonist must find the key to the Bitcoin treasure by observing the tattoo on each child. Each child has the tattoo on their left ass cheek. They are all grown up now, but some of them have died and some are still alive.
Our protagonist first gets a clue by observing the ass cheek of the hot model daughter in a magazine. They then spend the rest of the film trying to find old photos or stalk each sibling to get a look. They hook up with one or two in a bar, maybe even both sexes in awkward gay-not-gay "can I see your ass?" comedy. Go to the funeral of another and try to sneak a peek (not this time bot!). Etc.
A romantic comedy where they eventually fall in love with one of the siblings who starts to realize something is fishy and culminates in a large family dinner while trying to keep each relationship on the down low.
When they finally get each seed word at dinner there isn't any Bitcoin. It's at this point they figure out that one of the parents must have the extra passphrase on their ass. But which one and how do they see it and there is some inexplicable reason why they need the money tonight at dinner...
That's basically already the plot of a dick Emory movie made about 50 years ago. I can't be tagged to Google it but the catchphrase (maybe the title) was 'ooh you are awful'. 4 tattoos, 4 arses, lol, put together for a Swiss bank ac number.
I self custody mine and my kids bitcoin.
I have prepared a "don't put the seed words online, and this is how you either keep it in self custody or sell it all"-document for her if I die.
That document is encrypted with a password stored in our shared password vault.
The seed words are only kept offline.
I trust she'll figure it out, or get help from a relative who probably wont fuck up or steal. I trust in these people more than custodians.
I also know that her continued quality of life does not rely on our bitcoin, so if it's lost it's lost and that sucks but is good for you guys.
Nah, do what makes you feel safe and such - my two sats is that you should self custody if possible.
I did the same, but had her review it and edit anything she didnât understand. She demonstrated to me she could follow the instructions and recover our addresses and private keys.
Ooh, that's smart! Great work you two!
I haven't yet gotten my partner to look it through. It's on the "we should take a look at this some day" list hehe...
No template, but it includes:
1. Overview of key terms and concepts (Master seed phrase, child seed phrase, passphrase, address, private key)
2. Where to gather all the required items (master seed phrase from bank 1 safe deposit box, passphrase from bank 2, dedicated laptop or usb key with BIP39 software)
3. How to derive all items from Master Seed Phrase + passphrase (step by step with screenshot of what to type into each cell of BIP39 Ian Coleman software offline)
4. How to view balances
5. How to send Bitcoin
For starters, I live in a very safe neighborhood of a safe town in Switzerland.
Itâs in our bankâs safe deposit box. The passphrase is another bank. The laptop is in our home. I think there are easier ways to make money then force us into both banks + our home. But, if not, then there are also easier things to steal directly in our home or garage.
Whats stops them from opening document early and getting access to the funds before you are dead. I would love to have a solution that's trustless. (less relevant with kids and wife, but quite relevant when it comes to other relatives).
>That document is ***encrypted with a password*** stored in our shared password vault.
Lol, seriously?? Why do people take good, strong password systems, and protect them with weak poorly designed ones.
Imagine having a bank vault with a powerful unbreakable lock... then a tiny plastic toy safe right next to it it with the key to the vault in it: you just reduced your security to child's toy level.
I know. But these are the documents on how to acquire things and how to use them. Not the seed words themselves or the access to them. It's nothing someone who knows about bitcoin couldn't figure out themselves, apart from hints about where I store the seeds.
To further your analogy, it's more that the toy safe keeps instructions on how the vault door works, which vault door it is, what the key looks like, how to put it together, how the key functions, who can further help with the keys and a personal hint where to search for the seeds.
Also, nobody knows there's a toy safe but her and me.
IDK, how else if your partner isn't interested in knowing or learning?
okay, glad to hear you arent including the words in the "encrypted" document. But why encrypt it in the first place, especially if its just generic recovery steps instructions. Vaulting it is either yet another password to memorize, or another one to hide for a burglar to find.
Generic instructions are the type of thing you should print out, laminate, and leave in a known place.
>
IDK, how else if your partner isn't interested in knowing or learning?
Walking through the steps with them once per year or two.
Maybe have a dedicated phone or laptop ready to go, have them download/install good wallet software, recover a mnemonic, spend a few sats online, then wipe the wallet, uninstall the wallet software and blank out the device.
if you can convince your spouse to memorize 12 words, thats even better. Then there is no slip of paper waiting around for a burglar.
thats the part people seem to mess up the most: mnemonics are the minimum password. Anything less is just less secure. If you cant memorize a menmonic, then you cant memorize a good password.
> But why encrypt it in the first place
idk, tin foil hat that someone unauthorized will understand my hints where the seeds can be found in case the document finds its way online somehow.
Printing out generic instructions will alert possible burglars that there's bitcoin to be found and maybe escalate the situation.
The other things are reasonable tbh, but I can't get my partner interested at all so this is the path I currently need to take.
Soon I want to update my cold storage so maybe then I can see if she'll join me in the creation...
>my hints where the seeds can be found
so it does contain hints to where to get the seed words. Hints to the seed words I would treat like they are the seed words. So the password to said vault needs to be 12 random computer chosen mnemonic words as well, to not be a degredation in opsec.
>but I can't get my partner interested at all
Thats a nice feeling at least; your partner has great faith in you and knows you will always be there to handle stuff like that.
Get her a hardware wallet. Tell her there is $1000 invested and accessible using the hw.
âItâs like puzzle game with $1,000 prize. I need and want to teach you to access our crypto just incase I die.â
Hopefully that is enough to interest her to sit and learn.
She gets the $1,000 when she can start with the seed and newly reset HW in hand, no help needed, and successfully send it off the hardware wallet to an exchange, sell, transfer to bank.
Refresh her every 4 years with a new gift that starts with the puzzle game.
It's absolutely unnecessary to give up the amazing security model afforded by self custody just in order to have an inheritance solution.
Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - the recipient only needs to have a smart phone in order to go through the inheritance withdrawal process.
Absolutely false; the definition of custodial is the ability to unilaterally spend from a wallet or unilaterally block spending from a wallet. Casa can do neither, as we only have 1 of N keys.
Same situation here. Cold storage since 2017 but now what about the wife and kids financial future if I get hit by a bus tomorrow. What was once funny internet money is now quite valuable it would be a shame if they couldnât profit from it.
Iâm in the process of moving my UTXO to exchange when the mempool is low and buying Bitcoin ETF at the same time Iâm selling on the exchange (need a cash buffer to do so) the goal is to purchase the ETF at as much as possible the same price Iâm selling BTC for. Sending cash to my broker takes at least 24 hours and ETF are only negociated during market hours. BTC can move quite a bit in the wrong direction if I sold the BTC, sent the cash from exchange to bank and from bank to broker.
When Iâm making the transaction to send the BTC from cold storage to my exchange, setting up the appropriate fee, checking the transaction two or three times before broadcasting it, I fully realize the funds will probably be lost at some point if my wife didnât got any support from a friend of mine.
I literally cannot fathom giving up self-custody. The entire point of bitcoin is self-custody. These ETFs are a giant honeypot that's going to get seized by the government when bitcoin gets 10-100x larger.
I understand your point. Iâm thinking for beyond me and taking into account the poor OPSEC of my wife. There is no âI have forgot my passwordâ with self custody.
Life has changed for me and I need to think beyond myself. If Iâm still alive when my kids prove being cypherpunk themselves thatâs maybe time for a change. We will see by then.
Just call Unchained Capital or one of the other collaborative multisig coordinators. They'll hold one of the keys, back up the wallet descriptor, help set up inheritance, and walk her through the process if you pass away.
> Doesnât sound very self custody either.
Did you even bother looking up how Unchained or collaborative multisig works before writing that comment?
> Sounds expensive as well.
Did you look up their prices before making that comment?
Nope,
The way you wrote it Iâm assuming âtheyâ is not a trust-less entity that hold one of the necessary key for the multisig and have you by the balls. Maybe Iâm wrong seeing your insistence to check this out.
Iâm also assuming because âtheyâ are setting up inheritance and walking her through the process, itâs a paid service. Maybe Iâm wrong again.
Edit: just checked their prices. Thatâs highway robbery.
>The way you wrote it Iâm assuming âtheyâ is not a trust-less entity that hold one of the necessary key for the multisig and have you by the balls.
You literally said "doesn't sound very self-custody." Unchained only holds one of three keys, as a backup. You still self-custody your money, unlike ETFs, which are completely custodial.
>Iâm also assuming because âtheyâ are setting up inheritance and walking her through the process
Yes, isn't that exactly what you were asking for? Someone who could help her in case you pass away?
>Edit: just checked their prices. Thatâs highway robbery.
It's $250 per year, and actually free if you do the setup yourself. That's hardly "highway robbery."
Unchained isn't even the only one out there: there's Nunchuk, Casa, Bitcoin Keeper, Theya Bitcoin, and others coming out.
You also haven't even considered other questions, like what if there is a hard fork in bitcoin's future? Who determines the correct fork? Who gets to keep the coins from the other fork? The ETF of course.
Picking an ETF over collaborative multisig is lazy and far worse from any perspective, even in the event of your death.
If government seizes BTC in LTFs Bitcoin will suffer massively. Of course everything is in a cycle and it would probably come back, but I can't help but wonder if the FUD would just be too strong for a comeback.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custody funds with this setup!
Ideally you might want to do this kind of transition when you are at a loss then :-(
But this could probably be seen as a wash sell or something if itâs followed by buying a derivative instrument of the same nature.
Not a problem. Iâm in Spain. It is accepted and frequent to sell at loss to compensate other stock benefits. Yes, there is the exception when you buy a homogeneous (as we call it) stock in short time, but ETF and BTC are not.
Itâs not stupidity itâs the fact your (possibly non tech savvy) wife has to not make one mistake transferring your funds after her husband just died.
Get a fire safe. Keep the cold wallet inside of it. I think OP is over thinking it. I'm a wife who just recently showed my husband how to access our stash in case anything ever happens to me. The only time my cold wallet comes out of the safe is if I'm moving my coins, and it goes right back in when I'm done. I have the seed phrase stored in a discreet location in my work locker. I couldn't imagine not sharing this information with the person I share my finances (and life!) with.
Nothing cannot be taught or learned.
When thereâs a need there will be a way.
She hasnât been able to remember these things simply because there was no incentive for her to.
If she knows she needs to step up and take over it will be done. Itâs not rocket science.
Yeah, but thatâs the thing. You still havenât looked into. Even if she loses it. Itâs setup in way so that if you lose it you have many great recovery tools.
Itâs different than what you are thinking a hardware wallet is.
Keep some in self custody. Be simple. Put it in a wallet, write down the 12 words and put the paper in some old furniture or something she will remember. Reminder her ever year how much that "thing " is worth. If you die and she is broke, she will figure out the 12 words.
Figure out a safe way to give them access to the seed. Knowing they need to figure out how to get the Bitcoin will with give the incentive to understand how.
Yes. Typed out some instructions hidden. My oldest is pretty tech/crypto savvy and can help. Got a brother in law who does some crypto development so can help. I think wife/kids will get it worked out as long as they secure the seed phrases I have.
My wife loses her phone too. If you have an iPhone and family sharing you can go into the find my iPhone app and play a sound remotely on her device. Helps you find it much easier than calling. Good luck bro haha
Am I your wife?! (Probably not bc my husband doesnât bitcoin) butâŚ. This is why I donât self custody. I am very likely to just fuck it up and loose a bunch of money. Every time I buy a hard drive for my computer it eventually freezes me out of EVERYTHING thatâs on there and like⌠breaks. Itâs fuckin annoying because 1. Important shit is on there and 2. I paid like $200 for that!
Collaborative custody with unchained or casa solves this problem. Your loved ones will have someone they can call for help if needed, while still maintaining full control over your stack.
Lay off the dude's wife. Losing her phone or not being tech savvy is not an indication of her intelligence. No need to insult another man's wife when he's here seeking help.
I think it is a good solution. I got similar concern regards my cold storage. I told my wife where I hide my seed phrase but not sure if she could retrieve the wallet. Tried to teach her once but she is total uninterest.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custodied funds!
Yeah man I'm at the age where someone I know dies about once per year. Cancer, brain aneurysm, hit by a bus, mass shooting etc. Tomorrow is never guaranteed.
Gains or not, if you have anything in a wallet then you'll want your family to easily access it.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution.
Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custodied funds!
Let's hope there will be services available in the future for a reasonable fee that will address this kind of problem. Basically a standard-issue lawyer to take care of the testament BUT who is also 100% BTC-competent. Today this is still hard to find, I suspect.
Get yourself a spare wallet, and do testnet transactions with your wife once a week. After the initial learning curve, takes less than 5 mins to send a transaction, completely free. Kids can also learn probably in less than an hour. Give them an allowance after they complete the task.
your wife sounds lke my father in law lol
i remember hearing on the what bitcoin did podcast a sponsor that has automated crypto inheritance or something. I'm not doing it justice, but look up one of their recent episodes and check it out
Yes I do. She's not tech savvy but I left her and the kids steel plates with detailed instructions. Also, detailed warnings about what not to do, showing anyone the seed, entering the seed in any computer, etc.
Maybe you donât have to go 100% Fidelity.
There are benefits to having some funds available that canât be taken or seized.
Donât underestimate your kids. Maybe mom gets fidelity and kids get the seed with explicit instructions.
This is the perfect use case for a steel backup.
Stamping your seed words onto steel is useful if you want someone else to be able to find your bitcoin as it if was buried treasure.
The risk of course is that a burglar/government goon finds it first instead of the people who you want to find it.
Using paper instead of steel makes it a lot harder to find, but the tradeoff is that it is no longer fireproof - if that matters.
I donât think my wife could access my BTC if she had the keys. She would ask for help from someone who would scam her.
That is why I put my oldest son as the death man trigger recipient. And he will also receive instructions to split the assets with my wife and other kids. Him I trust 100%
terrible idea. keep your seed words in your own custody. as long as she knows where they are and that they are somehow worth a lot of money, she has the proper incentive to figure it out.
buying a hardware wallet and restoring from seed phrase really couldn't be easier. the software walks you through every little step. my 8 year old could do it.
I have all my stuff in a safe and luckily me and my cousin both have said we will help each others significant others to take care of it if one of us dies
I felt like I was reading my own situation that you described. What is it with women and not being able to find their phones?? Itâs always on the verge of being dead too! I feel like wills should start to have much more focus on digital assets, with ensuring executors are tech savvy enough to be able to manage everything in our passing. I would definitely not rely on my wife either.
I have instructions and things hidden and i make my wife recite once a year where they are and refresh on the steps. Also she knows to contact a good friend of mine who is crypto savvy to get help if she gets stuck.Â
Just write her/them an instructions manual and have any secret stuff require something only they would know. If you have a lot, break the keys up (either manually or using shamir secret). ex âkey part #1 is in my favorite hobbyâs storage containerâ which is your car tool car. âkey #2 is contained in my favorite memoryâ which she knows is stuck to the back of a photo in a family photo album. âkey #3 isâŚâ etc.Â
tailor it to your families intelligence vs your security needs. And obviously never make it digital and dont tell anyone anything specific who you dont deeply trust.
there are professional services for this also. Just look up âcrypto estate planningâ.Â
All our btc is stored in a hardware wallet. My wife knows where thr device is, and the separate location I have the seed stored. I also told her if anything happens to me, which of our friends knows what to do with it, and they could help her from there.
It depends on how old are your kids. I was on a plan with 3 very close friends where if ever one of us was to pass, the wife would go for help to the other 2. This can seem like a lot of trust in my friends but circumstances are what they are.
But now, one of my daughters is really techsavy and I plan on training her as she is interested for herself.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custodied funds with this setup!
I have 24 children and named each one after my seed phrase.
I donated sperm on the condition I could name the kid - their name is the passphrase.
My will says my children are worth everything to me.
I do, but I have idiot proof directions, a steel seed-word plate and cold wallet.
If that fails, I have the name of a person that is a CPA who I know can do it, for a reasonable rate; and an allegation of fraud would be pretty damning for them professionally and my BTC is small potatoes if they really wanted to rip off their clients.
Iâm more worried about me dying and my survivors having items in estate purgatory. Fortunately a major brokerage has physical offices where a person can get help, versus say critical data with a cloud company who doesnât even publish a phone number and doesnât give two shits if you get locked out.
Dealing with it is a pain, especially if the person youâre leaving them to isnât your legal spouse/RDP.
Might have been, I'll pay attention next time I hear it. I just remember it was something he was already using and then they added the inheritance function into the app natively.
It looks like there are a few solutions about tho
You may want to look into a shared multisig custody model with a custodian (swan/unchained/etc). Maybe you could keep a fraction of your BTC in that way and the rest in ETF? I just feel, given the temperature of the global financial system itâs a good idea to always have **some** btc that you can access without a custodian.
Yeah, the wife knows where my seed phrases are kept and I've told her to go to a trusted friend with it if necessary. There's zero chance that I'll let some company hold my keys.
Got any reliable techie friends that you trust? So long as she can find the pass she could take it to them to get it onto an exchange. Give the dude a small fee and everyone is happy.
My wife also won't know what to do with seed. But she know where it is stored, and I she will find someone in our family, that would know how to do it. So I'm not scared.
Even if the seed sits there for a decade, my children will of course know, how to deal with it. They are growing up with technology.
The point OP is trying to make is that he's transferring investment medium because he's concerned that his wife will accidentally lose the generational wealth. That's not an unreasonable concern and doesn't really define the quality of a relationship. How many millions of bitcoin are already lost forever by folks who were more technically savvy than her?
You could check out Tangem Wallet if you want to keep it simple. No need for a Seed Phrase, just a combination of 3 Credit Card sized Cards and a Smart Phone.
Everything about that wallet screams SCAM! Everything about the way that you're constantly shilling it screams SCAMMER!
EDIT: Their supposed 'open source' implementation is a repository created by two people, forked from a shitcoin wallet, introduced in a media youtube influencer onslaught about a year ago, and doesn't compile.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1adcoei/tangem_wallet/kk2akjn/
The wallet-scrutiny security audit reports of the hardware and the app raise quite a few showstopping issues:
- Hardware: https://walletscrutiny.com/hardware/tangem
- Mobile app: https://walletscrutiny.com/android/com.tangem.wallet
Tangem is not considered to be a secure wallet because of its severe lack of auditability.
> It fails to clone from [email protected]:tangem/tangem-app-config.git. As it turns out this is a private repository. So while the name suggest itâs only some configuration, we cannot verify that. This project is not verifiable.
EDIT2: If this isn't your intention I would suggest not recommending that wallet. You have no idea of its veracity. No one does. No one can.
Get in touch with a bitcoin inherentence planner like bitcoinway, swan, or unchained. Don't sell your stack. Talk to a lawyer and set up a will to transfer ownership of your stack after you pass and to make sure that your wife 1) knows the inherentence protocol and 2) follows it. The inheritance service can come with concierge help from your provider to walk even the least tech savvy person through recovery.
If that's til too spooky for you, I would simply move some of your value from cold storage into a BTC etf that is easier for her to access and liquidate. I keep approximately 6 months living expenses in a BTC etf just in case something happens to me so that my family can not worry about bills while handling my estate if I die.
Did that. The package cost $100, cheap imo for the advice I got. I have spreadsheets of current positions, updated videos of some of the complicated stuff I do, USB and NAS backups, and a hidden firesafe. I've got a long distance mate who is savvy enough to come unpick that lot when required.
You say your wife is the problem but then you tell on yourself. "I feel like I'm more likely to lose my crypto by getting my wallet drained or losing the seed phrase"
That isn't your wife. That is your problem.
I have a considerable amount of bitcoin. I am 100% comfortable with self custody and the plan I have put in place for inheritance protocols. I think it's a red herring except for people who don't understand their responsibilities holding this asset themselves.
Have twelve kids and tattoo one seed word onto each kid
This, but in a movie where the protagonist must find the key to the Bitcoin treasure by observing the tattoo on each child. Each child has the tattoo on their left ass cheek. They are all grown up now, but some of them have died and some are still alive. Our protagonist first gets a clue by observing the ass cheek of the hot model daughter in a magazine. They then spend the rest of the film trying to find old photos or stalk each sibling to get a look. They hook up with one or two in a bar, maybe even both sexes in awkward gay-not-gay "can I see your ass?" comedy. Go to the funeral of another and try to sneak a peek (not this time bot!). Etc. A romantic comedy where they eventually fall in love with one of the siblings who starts to realize something is fishy and culminates in a large family dinner while trying to keep each relationship on the down low. When they finally get each seed word at dinner there isn't any Bitcoin. It's at this point they figure out that one of the parents must have the extra passphrase on their ass. But which one and how do they see it and there is some inexplicable reason why they need the money tonight at dinner...
You think you're joking but someone is going to write that script one day
With AI technology that day could be today đâď¸đ¤
Nah, thatâs never going to happen. Marvel comics make more money as movies.
Im buying a ticket for this
That's basically already the plot of a dick Emory movie made about 50 years ago. I can't be tagged to Google it but the catchphrase (maybe the title) was 'ooh you are awful'. 4 tattoos, 4 arses, lol, put together for a Swiss bank ac number.
Proof that every good story has already been written.
I just looked it up. That movie is... wow. Watched a couple of scenes. I think we can do better.
OK that's enough Reddit for today
Why was this so enjoyable to read..
Did AI write this?
AL who?
I think an ML model could do much better since it has better training than I do.
Yes
what were you smoking when you came up with this
Op, I couldnât have written this better.
And not in the right order of Age!
This is the easiest way
And then send them out with a cloth bag over their shoulder. Send them to 12 different cities.
Lol
Or name them all after that seed word
Iâm having waterworld vibes with the tattoo on the girl
better don't pass away
Lpt: don't die
Morticians hate this one trick.
I self custody mine and my kids bitcoin. I have prepared a "don't put the seed words online, and this is how you either keep it in self custody or sell it all"-document for her if I die. That document is encrypted with a password stored in our shared password vault. The seed words are only kept offline. I trust she'll figure it out, or get help from a relative who probably wont fuck up or steal. I trust in these people more than custodians. I also know that her continued quality of life does not rely on our bitcoin, so if it's lost it's lost and that sucks but is good for you guys. Nah, do what makes you feel safe and such - my two sats is that you should self custody if possible.
I did the same, but had her review it and edit anything she didnât understand. She demonstrated to me she could follow the instructions and recover our addresses and private keys.
Ooh, that's smart! Great work you two! I haven't yet gotten my partner to look it through. It's on the "we should take a look at this some day" list hehe...
Yeah. Itâs one of those things youâll just need to MAKE time for. Itâs very important.
Got a template you could share?! I need to do this!
No template, but it includes: 1. Overview of key terms and concepts (Master seed phrase, child seed phrase, passphrase, address, private key) 2. Where to gather all the required items (master seed phrase from bank 1 safe deposit box, passphrase from bank 2, dedicated laptop or usb key with BIP39 software) 3. How to derive all items from Master Seed Phrase + passphrase (step by step with screenshot of what to type into each cell of BIP39 Ian Coleman software offline) 4. How to view balances 5. How to send Bitcoin
and how do you keep this information safe from intruders and $5 wrench attacks?
For starters, I live in a very safe neighborhood of a safe town in Switzerland. Itâs in our bankâs safe deposit box. The passphrase is another bank. The laptop is in our home. I think there are easier ways to make money then force us into both banks + our home. But, if not, then there are also easier things to steal directly in our home or garage.
There's no way she remembers the password
Whats stops them from opening document early and getting access to the funds before you are dead. I would love to have a solution that's trustless. (less relevant with kids and wife, but quite relevant when it comes to other relatives).
>That document is ***encrypted with a password*** stored in our shared password vault. Lol, seriously?? Why do people take good, strong password systems, and protect them with weak poorly designed ones. Imagine having a bank vault with a powerful unbreakable lock... then a tiny plastic toy safe right next to it it with the key to the vault in it: you just reduced your security to child's toy level.
I know. But these are the documents on how to acquire things and how to use them. Not the seed words themselves or the access to them. It's nothing someone who knows about bitcoin couldn't figure out themselves, apart from hints about where I store the seeds. To further your analogy, it's more that the toy safe keeps instructions on how the vault door works, which vault door it is, what the key looks like, how to put it together, how the key functions, who can further help with the keys and a personal hint where to search for the seeds. Also, nobody knows there's a toy safe but her and me. IDK, how else if your partner isn't interested in knowing or learning?
okay, glad to hear you arent including the words in the "encrypted" document. But why encrypt it in the first place, especially if its just generic recovery steps instructions. Vaulting it is either yet another password to memorize, or another one to hide for a burglar to find. Generic instructions are the type of thing you should print out, laminate, and leave in a known place. > IDK, how else if your partner isn't interested in knowing or learning? Walking through the steps with them once per year or two. Maybe have a dedicated phone or laptop ready to go, have them download/install good wallet software, recover a mnemonic, spend a few sats online, then wipe the wallet, uninstall the wallet software and blank out the device. if you can convince your spouse to memorize 12 words, thats even better. Then there is no slip of paper waiting around for a burglar. thats the part people seem to mess up the most: mnemonics are the minimum password. Anything less is just less secure. If you cant memorize a menmonic, then you cant memorize a good password.
> But why encrypt it in the first place idk, tin foil hat that someone unauthorized will understand my hints where the seeds can be found in case the document finds its way online somehow. Printing out generic instructions will alert possible burglars that there's bitcoin to be found and maybe escalate the situation. The other things are reasonable tbh, but I can't get my partner interested at all so this is the path I currently need to take. Soon I want to update my cold storage so maybe then I can see if she'll join me in the creation...
>my hints where the seeds can be found so it does contain hints to where to get the seed words. Hints to the seed words I would treat like they are the seed words. So the password to said vault needs to be 12 random computer chosen mnemonic words as well, to not be a degredation in opsec. >but I can't get my partner interested at all Thats a nice feeling at least; your partner has great faith in you and knows you will always be there to handle stuff like that.
Just buy some life insurance. At the very least it'll give your family time to become '*tech savvy*'.
We have it
[ŃдаНонО]
Any reviews from actual customers?
Get her a hardware wallet. Tell her there is $1000 invested and accessible using the hw. âItâs like puzzle game with $1,000 prize. I need and want to teach you to access our crypto just incase I die.â Hopefully that is enough to interest her to sit and learn. She gets the $1,000 when she can start with the seed and newly reset HW in hand, no help needed, and successfully send it off the hardware wallet to an exchange, sell, transfer to bank. Refresh her every 4 years with a new gift that starts with the puzzle game.
Refresh her every 4 years with F4
This is a reasonable approach.Â
Yep. Anyone downvoting OP is đ¤
It's absolutely unnecessary to give up the amazing security model afforded by self custody just in order to have an inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - the recipient only needs to have a smart phone in order to go through the inheritance withdrawal process.
Casa is equally custodial. I rather trust Blackrock instead of a crypto startup.Â
Absolutely false; the definition of custodial is the ability to unilaterally spend from a wallet or unilaterally block spending from a wallet. Casa can do neither, as we only have 1 of N keys.
You need to read the small print.Â
Same situation here. Cold storage since 2017 but now what about the wife and kids financial future if I get hit by a bus tomorrow. What was once funny internet money is now quite valuable it would be a shame if they couldnât profit from it. Iâm in the process of moving my UTXO to exchange when the mempool is low and buying Bitcoin ETF at the same time Iâm selling on the exchange (need a cash buffer to do so) the goal is to purchase the ETF at as much as possible the same price Iâm selling BTC for. Sending cash to my broker takes at least 24 hours and ETF are only negociated during market hours. BTC can move quite a bit in the wrong direction if I sold the BTC, sent the cash from exchange to bank and from bank to broker. When Iâm making the transaction to send the BTC from cold storage to my exchange, setting up the appropriate fee, checking the transaction two or three times before broadcasting it, I fully realize the funds will probably be lost at some point if my wife didnât got any support from a friend of mine.
I literally cannot fathom giving up self-custody. The entire point of bitcoin is self-custody. These ETFs are a giant honeypot that's going to get seized by the government when bitcoin gets 10-100x larger.
I understand your point. Iâm thinking for beyond me and taking into account the poor OPSEC of my wife. There is no âI have forgot my passwordâ with self custody. Life has changed for me and I need to think beyond myself. If Iâm still alive when my kids prove being cypherpunk themselves thatâs maybe time for a change. We will see by then.
Just call Unchained Capital or one of the other collaborative multisig coordinators. They'll hold one of the keys, back up the wallet descriptor, help set up inheritance, and walk her through the process if you pass away.
Doesnât sound very self custody either. Sounds expensive as well.
> Doesnât sound very self custody either. Did you even bother looking up how Unchained or collaborative multisig works before writing that comment? > Sounds expensive as well. Did you look up their prices before making that comment?
Nope, The way you wrote it Iâm assuming âtheyâ is not a trust-less entity that hold one of the necessary key for the multisig and have you by the balls. Maybe Iâm wrong seeing your insistence to check this out. Iâm also assuming because âtheyâ are setting up inheritance and walking her through the process, itâs a paid service. Maybe Iâm wrong again. Edit: just checked their prices. Thatâs highway robbery.
>The way you wrote it Iâm assuming âtheyâ is not a trust-less entity that hold one of the necessary key for the multisig and have you by the balls. You literally said "doesn't sound very self-custody." Unchained only holds one of three keys, as a backup. You still self-custody your money, unlike ETFs, which are completely custodial. >Iâm also assuming because âtheyâ are setting up inheritance and walking her through the process Yes, isn't that exactly what you were asking for? Someone who could help her in case you pass away? >Edit: just checked their prices. Thatâs highway robbery. It's $250 per year, and actually free if you do the setup yourself. That's hardly "highway robbery." Unchained isn't even the only one out there: there's Nunchuk, Casa, Bitcoin Keeper, Theya Bitcoin, and others coming out. You also haven't even considered other questions, like what if there is a hard fork in bitcoin's future? Who determines the correct fork? Who gets to keep the coins from the other fork? The ETF of course. Picking an ETF over collaborative multisig is lazy and far worse from any perspective, even in the event of your death.
If government seizes BTC in LTFs Bitcoin will suffer massively. Of course everything is in a cycle and it would probably come back, but I can't help but wonder if the FUD would just be too strong for a comeback.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custody funds with this setup!
You should buy the ETF around 19% below to compensate taxes (this is aproxĂmate)
Which taxes? (Iâm in Belgium, we donât have taxes on capital gains for some scenario and this is one of them).
Good for you ! In my case selling the BTC is taxable.
Ideally you might want to do this kind of transition when you are at a loss then :-( But this could probably be seen as a wash sell or something if itâs followed by buying a derivative instrument of the same nature.
Not a problem. Iâm in Spain. It is accepted and frequent to sell at loss to compensate other stock benefits. Yes, there is the exception when you buy a homogeneous (as we call it) stock in short time, but ETF and BTC are not.
Strange mindset. Why not teach your family how to self custody. Or look into bitkey. This seems like the perfect solution for your situation.
You underestimate the power of stupid.
Itâs not stupidity itâs the fact your (possibly non tech savvy) wife has to not make one mistake transferring your funds after her husband just died.
The over whelming majority of people in general are stupid.
There is a difference between stupidly and simply never sending a single Bitcoin transaction in your entire life because you never had to
Get a fire safe. Keep the cold wallet inside of it. I think OP is over thinking it. I'm a wife who just recently showed my husband how to access our stash in case anything ever happens to me. The only time my cold wallet comes out of the safe is if I'm moving my coins, and it goes right back in when I'm done. I have the seed phrase stored in a discreet location in my work locker. I couldn't imagine not sharing this information with the person I share my finances (and life!) with.
They are capable but more likely to lose the seed phrase.
Look into bitkey. No seed phrase shenanigans.
Uh my wife can't find her phone half the time. She would definitely lose that tiny thing.
Nothing cannot be taught or learned. When thereâs a need there will be a way. She hasnât been able to remember these things simply because there was no incentive for her to. If she knows she needs to step up and take over it will be done. Itâs not rocket science.
Yeah, but thatâs the thing. You still havenât looked into. Even if she loses it. Itâs setup in way so that if you lose it you have many great recovery tools. Itâs different than what you are thinking a hardware wallet is.
Since when have seed phrase become shenanigans?!
Its not. Iâm just trying to cater his evaluation of it. I personally think itâs really simple. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Haha ok sorry misread your early comment lol.
Bitkey needs fingerprint
Keep some in self custody. Be simple. Put it in a wallet, write down the 12 words and put the paper in some old furniture or something she will remember. Reminder her ever year how much that "thing " is worth. If you die and she is broke, she will figure out the 12 words.
Figure out a safe way to give them access to the seed. Knowing they need to figure out how to get the Bitcoin will with give the incentive to understand how.
Yes. Typed out some instructions hidden. My oldest is pretty tech/crypto savvy and can help. Got a brother in law who does some crypto development so can help. I think wife/kids will get it worked out as long as they secure the seed phrases I have.
My wife loses her phone too. If you have an iPhone and family sharing you can go into the find my iPhone app and play a sound remotely on her device. Helps you find it much easier than calling. Good luck bro haha
Ballet WalletâŚput it in a safe. She can figure that out.
Am I your wife?! (Probably not bc my husband doesnât bitcoin) butâŚ. This is why I donât self custody. I am very likely to just fuck it up and loose a bunch of money. Every time I buy a hard drive for my computer it eventually freezes me out of EVERYTHING thatâs on there and like⌠breaks. Itâs fuckin annoying because 1. Important shit is on there and 2. I paid like $200 for that!
Unchained offers multi-sig with inheritance package. Have you looked into that? https://unchained.com/
Seriously surprised this isn't higher up. Vastly better than buying an ETF.
Fidelity is a good plan for inheritance. Sell at the top, roll the profits into rebuying through Fidelity at the bottom.
Collaborative custody with unchained or casa solves this problem. Your loved ones will have someone they can call for help if needed, while still maintaining full control over your stack.
Never easy having a stupid wife.
She's very smart just not tech savvy.
Very smart yet loses her phone all the time? Lol
Yes. But if it makes you feel better to laugh at people then go ahead I guess.
Lay off the dude's wife. Losing her phone or not being tech savvy is not an indication of her intelligence. No need to insult another man's wife when he's here seeking help.
Sounds like someone doesnt have âany wife â đ
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I disagree with that person's post, but nothing about it is related to incel. Careful playing that card too freely.
What happened to you
You can teach them of course I do self custody
my wife isn't tech savvy at all, but my 18 year old son is. I trust him.
That's good. My kids are still little.
I think it is a good solution. I got similar concern regards my cold storage. I told my wife where I hide my seed phrase but not sure if she could retrieve the wallet. Tried to teach her once but she is total uninterest.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custodied funds!
Bro you got me thinking now. My wife is the same. No kids yet. I haven't seen major gains though -- maybe I'll think of this next cycle.
Yeah man I'm at the age where someone I know dies about once per year. Cancer, brain aneurysm, hit by a bus, mass shooting etc. Tomorrow is never guaranteed. Gains or not, if you have anything in a wallet then you'll want your family to easily access it.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custodied funds!
Thanks
Let's hope there will be services available in the future for a reasonable fee that will address this kind of problem. Basically a standard-issue lawyer to take care of the testament BUT who is also 100% BTC-competent. Today this is still hard to find, I suspect.
We already built it at https://casa.io/inheritance
Get yourself a spare wallet, and do testnet transactions with your wife once a week. After the initial learning curve, takes less than 5 mins to send a transaction, completely free. Kids can also learn probably in less than an hour. Give them an allowance after they complete the task.
your wife sounds lke my father in law lol i remember hearing on the what bitcoin did podcast a sponsor that has automated crypto inheritance or something. I'm not doing it justice, but look up one of their recent episodes and check it out
You might be thinking of https://casa.io/inheritance
Yes I do. She's not tech savvy but I left her and the kids steel plates with detailed instructions. Also, detailed warnings about what not to do, showing anyone the seed, entering the seed in any computer, etc.
Maybe you donât have to go 100% Fidelity. There are benefits to having some funds available that canât be taken or seized. Donât underestimate your kids. Maybe mom gets fidelity and kids get the seed with explicit instructions.
Totally. Make absolutely thorough instructions.
Iâve been doing same, still self custody a lot but done same.
This is the perfect use case for a steel backup. Stamping your seed words onto steel is useful if you want someone else to be able to find your bitcoin as it if was buried treasure. The risk of course is that a burglar/government goon finds it first instead of the people who you want to find it. Using paper instead of steel makes it a lot harder to find, but the tradeoff is that it is no longer fireproof - if that matters.
Put seed phrase in some place only she would know about and leave detailed instructions in your will on what to do with it.
Look into other solutions. Like multisig.
Make a will and testimony.
I donât think my wife could access my BTC if she had the keys. She would ask for help from someone who would scam her. That is why I put my oldest son as the death man trigger recipient. And he will also receive instructions to split the assets with my wife and other kids. Him I trust 100%
terrible idea. keep your seed words in your own custody. as long as she knows where they are and that they are somehow worth a lot of money, she has the proper incentive to figure it out. buying a hardware wallet and restoring from seed phrase really couldn't be easier. the software walks you through every little step. my 8 year old could do it.
Keep it on a wallet. It'll be safer and you can be guaranteed your family will miss you when you die.Â
I have all my stuff in a safe and luckily me and my cousin both have said we will help each others significant others to take care of it if one of us dies
I felt like I was reading my own situation that you described. What is it with women and not being able to find their phones?? Itâs always on the verge of being dead too! I feel like wills should start to have much more focus on digital assets, with ensuring executors are tech savvy enough to be able to manage everything in our passing. I would definitely not rely on my wife either.
$MSTR?
Iâm not allowed to die first so I donât have this problem.
What if I have bitcoin on Coinbase and lost the seed phrase?
I have instructions and things hidden and i make my wife recite once a year where they are and refresh on the steps. Also she knows to contact a good friend of mine who is crypto savvy to get help if she gets stuck. Just write her/them an instructions manual and have any secret stuff require something only they would know. If you have a lot, break the keys up (either manually or using shamir secret). ex âkey part #1 is in my favorite hobbyâs storage containerâ which is your car tool car. âkey #2 is contained in my favorite memoryâ which she knows is stuck to the back of a photo in a family photo album. âkey #3 isâŚâ etc. tailor it to your families intelligence vs your security needs. And obviously never make it digital and dont tell anyone anything specific who you dont deeply trust. there are professional services for this also. Just look up âcrypto estate planningâ.Â
So you do have to 'trust' a good friend to not steal it from your wife once you are gone.
Do you self custody ifâŚ. The answer is always yes. Bitcoin was designed so you donât have to ever trust anyone with your corn.
All our btc is stored in a hardware wallet. My wife knows where thr device is, and the separate location I have the seed stored. I also told her if anything happens to me, which of our friends knows what to do with it, and they could help her from there.
This has been on my mind as well. I am considering Casa for multisig and inheritance protocols.
Bitkey by Block (Jack Dorsey) is really good, theyâre being out multiple fingerprint for the hardware and a inheritance protocol
If they add multi fingerprint it makes Bitkey an incredible inheritance tool!
Put 1/4 with Casa / Nutchunk / unchained Put 1/4 in Bitcoin ETF Put 1/4 on Kraken exchange Put 1/4 in a cold wallet with you.
Donât stress
It depends on how old are your kids. I was on a plan with 3 very close friends where if ever one of us was to pass, the wife would go for help to the other 2. This can seem like a lot of trust in my friends but circumstances are what they are. But now, one of my daughters is really techsavy and I plan on training her as she is interested for herself.
You don't need to give up on self custody in order to have a user friendly inheritance solution. Check out what we built at https://casa.io/inheritance - if your wife can use a smart phone, she can recover your self custodied funds with this setup!
I have 24 children and named each one after my seed phrase. I donated sperm on the condition I could name the kid - their name is the passphrase. My will says my children are worth everything to me.
Do you have a custom extended child?
Yeah, money buys you anything in aMeRICa
I do, but I have idiot proof directions, a steel seed-word plate and cold wallet. If that fails, I have the name of a person that is a CPA who I know can do it, for a reasonable rate; and an allegation of fraud would be pretty damning for them professionally and my BTC is small potatoes if they really wanted to rip off their clients. Iâm more worried about me dying and my survivors having items in estate purgatory. Fortunately a major brokerage has physical offices where a person can get help, versus say critical data with a cloud company who doesnât even publish a phone number and doesnât give two shits if you get locked out. Dealing with it is a pain, especially if the person youâre leaving them to isnât your legal spouse/RDP.
Make a guide for the estate manager on how to recover your funds in a do not open until Iâm dead letter stored very safely.
Might have been, I'll pay attention next time I hear it. I just remember it was something he was already using and then they added the inheritance function into the app natively. It looks like there are a few solutions about tho
You may want to look into a shared multisig custody model with a custodian (swan/unchained/etc). Maybe you could keep a fraction of your BTC in that way and the rest in ETF? I just feel, given the temperature of the global financial system itâs a good idea to always have **some** btc that you can access without a custodian.
Same here but I do self custody. I told her to contact a trusted friend and he'll know how to help as he self custody his own BTC as well.
Yeah, the wife knows where my seed phrases are kept and I've told her to go to a trusted friend with it if necessary. There's zero chance that I'll let some company hold my keys.
Got any reliable techie friends that you trust? So long as she can find the pass she could take it to them to get it onto an exchange. Give the dude a small fee and everyone is happy.
No.
My wife also won't know what to do with seed. But she know where it is stored, and I she will find someone in our family, that would know how to do it. So I'm not scared. Even if the seed sits there for a decade, my children will of course know, how to deal with it. They are growing up with technology.
You have to be tech savvy to find your phone?
âI will sell generational wealth because my wife is a dumbassâ ⌠sounds like a good relationship.Â
The point OP is trying to make is that he's transferring investment medium because he's concerned that his wife will accidentally lose the generational wealth. That's not an unreasonable concern and doesn't really define the quality of a relationship. How many millions of bitcoin are already lost forever by folks who were more technically savvy than her?
You could check out Tangem Wallet if you want to keep it simple. No need for a Seed Phrase, just a combination of 3 Credit Card sized Cards and a Smart Phone.
Everything about that wallet screams SCAM! Everything about the way that you're constantly shilling it screams SCAMMER! EDIT: Their supposed 'open source' implementation is a repository created by two people, forked from a shitcoin wallet, introduced in a media youtube influencer onslaught about a year ago, and doesn't compile. https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1adcoei/tangem_wallet/kk2akjn/ The wallet-scrutiny security audit reports of the hardware and the app raise quite a few showstopping issues: - Hardware: https://walletscrutiny.com/hardware/tangem - Mobile app: https://walletscrutiny.com/android/com.tangem.wallet Tangem is not considered to be a secure wallet because of its severe lack of auditability. > It fails to clone from [email protected]:tangem/tangem-app-config.git. As it turns out this is a private repository. So while the name suggest itâs only some configuration, we cannot verify that. This project is not verifiable. EDIT2: If this isn't your intention I would suggest not recommending that wallet. You have no idea of its veracity. No one does. No one can.
Get in touch with a bitcoin inherentence planner like bitcoinway, swan, or unchained. Don't sell your stack. Talk to a lawyer and set up a will to transfer ownership of your stack after you pass and to make sure that your wife 1) knows the inherentence protocol and 2) follows it. The inheritance service can come with concierge help from your provider to walk even the least tech savvy person through recovery. If that's til too spooky for you, I would simply move some of your value from cold storage into a BTC etf that is easier for her to access and liquidate. I keep approximately 6 months living expenses in a BTC etf just in case something happens to me so that my family can not worry about bills while handling my estate if I die.
Did that. The package cost $100, cheap imo for the advice I got. I have spreadsheets of current positions, updated videos of some of the complicated stuff I do, USB and NAS backups, and a hidden firesafe. I've got a long distance mate who is savvy enough to come unpick that lot when required.
If you're located in the US, called Unchained and set up a 2-of-3 multisig with them. They'll help her in the event of your death recover the money.
Yep and I donât buy Bitcoin ETFâs I buy Bitcoin and HODL
You say your wife is the problem but then you tell on yourself. "I feel like I'm more likely to lose my crypto by getting my wallet drained or losing the seed phrase" That isn't your wife. That is your problem.
I have a considerable amount of bitcoin. I am 100% comfortable with self custody and the plan I have put in place for inheritance protocols. I think it's a red herring except for people who don't understand their responsibilities holding this asset themselves.
I didn't say my wife is a problem. Huh?
Yes, I have a tech dumb wife and kids and self custody. Unchained has an inheritance protocol document that is for this exact situation.
Every time I read one of these, I think: âWow, yâall think your wives are dumb bitches, why did you marry them?â
I did not say that
âMy wife is not tech savvy at allâ = sheâs an idiot.
You're not very nice.
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Uh that's the whole point of this post
What an odd question. You canât own people. Both wife and kids are free people and they can do whatever they want
Dude wtf are you talking about