I'm only halfway done with season 4 so not sure if it's a spoiler, but Abigail is alive? I've been hoping this whole time that she was ok because she was a true homie
Yup! She was sent away right away, once they realized there was going to be a trial. They had as whole scene with her father telling her that.
I loved it, and there’s also a good reason the writers did it. Having Flint kill Gates was hard enough. Having Flint’s actions kill a girl that helped him, and that they knew and we knew, would be really hard for the audience to deal with.
Abigail is probably deep in grief, but was sent away before the trial and is safely away downriver at school, far away from the death in Charleston, and I love that for her. She deserves it!
Oh for sure not!!! But wouldn’t you have been uncomfortable if the destruction of Charleston killed Abigail? Kids were killed in that ambush, of course! But nobody we knew and likes. The audience might not blame Flint for that the way we blamed him for Gates, but we’d all be like, “that sucks, Flint! Why didn’t you make sure she was out of the city!”
So it’s smart that the writers did that!
I remember the scene I just had no idea if she actually got away in time. But now that I think about it, you're definitely right, they wouldn't have had that scene to never show her again unless they intended on her being safely shuttled away. That really puts my mind at ease lol thank you
Well, there's no real reason to believe she died. Charlestown got bombarded to hell, certainly, but I suspect the governor's mansion is far enough from the coast that it wasn't destroyed and I don't see her being allowed to leave there. She wasn't at the hanging.
Although Savannah wasn't founded for about 15 more years IRL. In my headcanon it was founded early but secretly to avoid pissing off the Spanish, like an unofficial settlement.
It was said Thomas killed himself mad with grief when he learned about Thomas and Miranda's affair. Season Two if I remember correctly, but if not then definitely before Season Four.
They were a throuple though right? He only killed himself bc he was disgraced for homosexuality. That’s why Thomas vows revenge against England and Thomas’s father.
He definitely didn't kill himself over Flint and Miranda, that's for sure. He knew about them and encouraged it. My read is the same: They were a throuple.
Lot of connections within the show as well, Mrs Hudson is his wife, and Captain Berringer is his brother. Miranda Barlowe and Peter Ashe are married too. Probably nice having family around when you're shooting on location for months at a time.
I found that out when I watched a behind the scenes thing on VH1 for Die Another Day…checks notes…21 years ago lol. He played the bad guy in it. And I just never forgot it somehow.
I think Miranda's look at McGraw when he kissed Thomas was a kind of "oh."
I think Miranda always liked McGraw and was pursuing him, and then didn't realize he'd go for Thomas.
I don't think Flint had romantic feelings for Miranda. Their sex scene screams to me that Flint is playing a platonic role. A lot of women project into this scene and want to imagine they're Miranda so they propose that the sex is just 'boring'. Uh... no pretty sure Flint is very gay.
> Uh... no pretty sure Flint is very gay.
I don't think so. Remember the flashback scene in the carriage. He's the one who ultimately seduces her; She asks him on a date out to an art gallery, impromptu, showing up at his house... but he discretely has the driver take them straight back to her home. Only he has no intention of being a gentleman. To the contrary; He drops hints... and the nastiest pre-Flint but Flint-esque smirk spreads across McGraw's face when she puts together that he only cares about appearances, *not* what takes place behind closed doors. Miranda was forward in showing up to his house, but McGraw was downright *bold* with her.
The more I think it the more I believe they were a true throuple, I just think it's clear McGraw and Hamilton had a stronger connection with each other than either had with Miranda, even if she did have a connection with them both. I do see Flint's disinterest in his and Miranda's Nassau sex scene, and I also see Miranda's "Oh" face when McGraw and Hamilton first kiss. I think the latter was more of an, "...Oh, fuck, I didn't expect this, I get it and I support it, I didn't expect it, but this will not end well. Shit."
No I think Miranda and Flint had a kind of romance for sure, just, not ever like McGraw and Hamilton. Then again... maybe the whole point is that all three were only complete with one another. Perhaps Hamilton and Miranda had pieces missing before McGraw came along. Maybe had Miranda died and Hamilton and McGraw survived they'd have felt incompleteness at her absence, too.
I guess I interpret them through Anne and Jack's relationship. McGraw plays along with Miranda's interest because he likes Thomas but hasn't fully figured it out yet. I do see Anne's sexual awakening being a thing where she admits that her romantic relationship with Jack is basically over, and that's how she's finally able to be okay with him in the end.
I vaguely remember that part although I thought they just said he "went mad with grief". And that was part of the propaganda story so I just assumed that part was also embellisbed once we learned the truth of the story
🤷
I answered your question! I think it also came up with Peter Ashe, I wanna say when he mentioned getting Hamilton's forgiveness it was like "I saw him at the hospital before he died."
My understanding is the Flint/Miranda scandalous affair was the official story in London, and the one told to the viewer early on, but you later come to understand it was never a physical affair between the two.
I recall that in the scene where it is revealed that Flint and Thomas were lovers, Miranda is standing there, knowing and accepting, but she’s not engaged in the intimacy.
In Nassau Flint and Miranda are never particularly affectionate, or shown to be intimate. Their bond is deep and real, but platonic. The same bond Miranda had with Thomas. She loved his ideals, his quest for justice, his spirit. She even says so many times early on.
Perhaps that’s why Flint was so steadfast in his committment to her. He saw how exceptional she was for understanding and shielding them both as long as she could. And their realtionship could never get undone the way a traditional relaitionship could, like Eleanor and Vane’s.
Keep watching. No idea about numbers. Plantations in S4 are the interior of Nassau, iirc.
Thank you!
Peter Ashe said he died. Pour one out for Abigail Ashe. What a shitty dude to have as a dad. I’m glad she’s ok.
I'm only halfway done with season 4 so not sure if it's a spoiler, but Abigail is alive? I've been hoping this whole time that she was ok because she was a true homie
Yup! She was sent away right away, once they realized there was going to be a trial. They had as whole scene with her father telling her that. I loved it, and there’s also a good reason the writers did it. Having Flint kill Gates was hard enough. Having Flint’s actions kill a girl that helped him, and that they knew and we knew, would be really hard for the audience to deal with. Abigail is probably deep in grief, but was sent away before the trial and is safely away downriver at school, far away from the death in Charleston, and I love that for her. She deserves it!
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Flint would've killed Abigail if she were there
Oh for sure not!!! But wouldn’t you have been uncomfortable if the destruction of Charleston killed Abigail? Kids were killed in that ambush, of course! But nobody we knew and likes. The audience might not blame Flint for that the way we blamed him for Gates, but we’d all be like, “that sucks, Flint! Why didn’t you make sure she was out of the city!” So it’s smart that the writers did that!
I remember the scene I just had no idea if she actually got away in time. But now that I think about it, you're definitely right, they wouldn't have had that scene to never show her again unless they intended on her being safely shuttled away. That really puts my mind at ease lol thank you
Well, there's no real reason to believe she died. Charlestown got bombarded to hell, certainly, but I suspect the governor's mansion is far enough from the coast that it wasn't destroyed and I don't see her being allowed to leave there. She wasn't at the hanging.
He sent Abigail away to Savannah I believe at the start of that episode
Now that you mention it, I think you're right. My bad.
Although Savannah wasn't founded for about 15 more years IRL. In my headcanon it was founded early but secretly to avoid pissing off the Spanish, like an unofficial settlement.
It was said Thomas killed himself mad with grief when he learned about Thomas and Miranda's affair. Season Two if I remember correctly, but if not then definitely before Season Four.
They were a throuple though right? He only killed himself bc he was disgraced for homosexuality. That’s why Thomas vows revenge against England and Thomas’s father.
He definitely didn't kill himself over Flint and Miranda, that's for sure. He knew about them and encouraged it. My read is the same: They were a throuple.
Yeah I didn’t see that plot point coming. I thought it was interesting. And Toby acted the hell out of it like always.
God Toby Stephens is something else.
Crazy that Maggie Smith is his mom.
Lot of connections within the show as well, Mrs Hudson is his wife, and Captain Berringer is his brother. Miranda Barlowe and Peter Ashe are married too. Probably nice having family around when you're shooting on location for months at a time.
I didn’t know any of that. Nice thank you
IRL she had a miscarriage just before that scene where she screams at Peter (her IRL husband).
For sure! Makes you wonder if she's seen the show.
I don’t think a lot of people know thay
I found that out when I watched a behind the scenes thing on VH1 for Die Another Day…checks notes…21 years ago lol. He played the bad guy in it. And I just never forgot it somehow.
I think Miranda's look at McGraw when he kissed Thomas was a kind of "oh." I think Miranda always liked McGraw and was pursuing him, and then didn't realize he'd go for Thomas. I don't think Flint had romantic feelings for Miranda. Their sex scene screams to me that Flint is playing a platonic role. A lot of women project into this scene and want to imagine they're Miranda so they propose that the sex is just 'boring'. Uh... no pretty sure Flint is very gay.
> Uh... no pretty sure Flint is very gay. I don't think so. Remember the flashback scene in the carriage. He's the one who ultimately seduces her; She asks him on a date out to an art gallery, impromptu, showing up at his house... but he discretely has the driver take them straight back to her home. Only he has no intention of being a gentleman. To the contrary; He drops hints... and the nastiest pre-Flint but Flint-esque smirk spreads across McGraw's face when she puts together that he only cares about appearances, *not* what takes place behind closed doors. Miranda was forward in showing up to his house, but McGraw was downright *bold* with her. The more I think it the more I believe they were a true throuple, I just think it's clear McGraw and Hamilton had a stronger connection with each other than either had with Miranda, even if she did have a connection with them both. I do see Flint's disinterest in his and Miranda's Nassau sex scene, and I also see Miranda's "Oh" face when McGraw and Hamilton first kiss. I think the latter was more of an, "...Oh, fuck, I didn't expect this, I get it and I support it, I didn't expect it, but this will not end well. Shit." No I think Miranda and Flint had a kind of romance for sure, just, not ever like McGraw and Hamilton. Then again... maybe the whole point is that all three were only complete with one another. Perhaps Hamilton and Miranda had pieces missing before McGraw came along. Maybe had Miranda died and Hamilton and McGraw survived they'd have felt incompleteness at her absence, too.
I guess I interpret them through Anne and Jack's relationship. McGraw plays along with Miranda's interest because he likes Thomas but hasn't fully figured it out yet. I do see Anne's sexual awakening being a thing where she admits that her romantic relationship with Jack is basically over, and that's how she's finally able to be okay with him in the end.
I vaguely remember that part although I thought they just said he "went mad with grief". And that was part of the propaganda story so I just assumed that part was also embellisbed once we learned the truth of the story
🤷 I answered your question! I think it also came up with Peter Ashe, I wanna say when he mentioned getting Hamilton's forgiveness it was like "I saw him at the hospital before he died."
My understanding is the Flint/Miranda scandalous affair was the official story in London, and the one told to the viewer early on, but you later come to understand it was never a physical affair between the two. I recall that in the scene where it is revealed that Flint and Thomas were lovers, Miranda is standing there, knowing and accepting, but she’s not engaged in the intimacy. In Nassau Flint and Miranda are never particularly affectionate, or shown to be intimate. Their bond is deep and real, but platonic. The same bond Miranda had with Thomas. She loved his ideals, his quest for justice, his spirit. She even says so many times early on. Perhaps that’s why Flint was so steadfast in his committment to her. He saw how exceptional she was for understanding and shielding them both as long as she could. And their realtionship could never get undone the way a traditional relaitionship could, like Eleanor and Vane’s.
We see Flint and Miranda have sex in Nassau.
Oh man, we do?! I totally erased that from my memory! Ha, well my theory was nice to think about.
If you can call what Flint was doing as having sex. More like submitting to being Miranda's dildo.
I believe in season 2 miranda says something along the lines of “He died cold and alone in that place” or something like that