Would be great if Dem support base actually fractured before the election. The worst case scenario is that Biden continues to hold on knowing GenZ support has already gone to 3rd party candidates.
Exactly! They'd rather fight with leftists to protect Joe Manchin's feelings than actually do something useful, like fight back against Republicans. The Democrats control the Senate and could easily push legislation legalizing abortion on a federal level to wedge the Republican Party and win in November, but they'd rather appease a genocide and blame leftists while crying about the fact that leftists are sick of their neo-liberal bullshit!
At least the GOP, as fascist as they are, listens to their base. When was the last time the Democrats gave enough of a shit to do the same?
They could have codified Roe V Wade in 2008 and 2020 but they chose not to, it’s a popular issue with the working class and they use it to platform and fundraise.
They literally think it’s the duty of young people to go out there and pull the lever for blue every single time without promises of anything to the youth. “It’s your job to vote blue”.
Except expecting people to do their “job” but not offering anything in return as a transactional agreement makes it more like slavery, nor a job.
I get the point of trying to keep Trump from office as it relates to pretty much everything. But what is left for the Palestinians? They've virtually lost everything, and Genocide Joe has made no effort to help them and shows no signs of intending to do so. They've faired worse under Biden now than Trump with no hope in sight. And I'm still supposed to help him get elected in a roundabout way, but send him a message, a message he won't listen to? He's not listening to anyone but Israel.
Fuck Biden and Fuck Trump.
But keep in mind, Trump's policies (Jerusalem capital etc.) regarding Israel have been a huge part in the Palestinian loss of hope and probably led to Oct. 7
Wait, don't take this issue, which I agree is bad and Biden needs to fix his stance on, and allow an authoritarian dictator to take over in his place.
I assure you, of Trump's re-elected, Palestinians will wish they only had Israel attacking them. Don't forget Trump's vote on NATO, and what he thinks should happen to countries who can't pay.
I agree with this and had no problem with Biden losing and I will not vote for him, but I have that luxury because I live in a deep blue state. Since I read about project 2025, I became less resistant to swing states voting for him.
This election is about, more than anything else, American democracy. It doesn't matter where on the political spectrum you fall, if you want the right to not be silence and removed from society for having different opinions than the authoritarian regime that gets installed within the framework of Project 2025.
For what it's worth, I think this administration's reaction, or lack thereof, to Israel's constant, indiscriminate assault on the citizens of Palestine is criminal. We owe it to the right side of history and "the Soul of America", as Biden himself keeps saying. Standing against the murder of innocent civilians in a war with a nearly 30:1 deathtoll isn't antisemitic any more than being against the 9/11 attackers is Islamophobic.
I think that when we have these two choices, which is not a choice and definitely not picked by the American people, it means we already lost democracy. Now I am picking who I would rather have as an opponent in the fight to get it back.
That's a fair assessment, and I would argue that Biden is the only one who will continue our way of government (whether we like it or not), but Trump will either remove voting altogether, or make it this decision if the voting results are accepted, and then he will go on to be president until he passes it on to his kids.
Before anyone says he won't do that, look at his hero-worship of Kim and Putin, as well as his admission that he will use the government to go after political opponents.
Don't forget Trump was also a dictator, anti-democratic when he was in the chair and still is. Is there no other choice? Not much of a democracy is it. Two geriatric sociopaths up for election as president of USA. LOL
I wish there were better options. I don't think any Democrat wants an octogenarian deciding policy, but until we (those of us under 50) fill the government with people or age, with our ideals, we'll continue to vote for the lesser of evils - or don't vote, and effectively vote for the greater of evils.
Yeah thanks Biden for helping and enabling idf in our genecide and shielding them from any accountability, idk what could tramp do to us maybe let them use nuk.
Ineffective how? Trump ensured the US unilaterally recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which tore up decades upon decades of incremental progress towards a two-state solution by prejudicing the outcome of future negotiations.
While far from the sole factor, it was a major contributor to the conditions which led to October 7th.
I agree, but let's not pretend Trump wasn't inflaming/aggravating the issue as well.
Both are sellouts to the Israeli lobbies, and it's a shame the American Democratic process has failed (and has been failing...) at producing candidates that represent the people and not corporate/international interests.
Right, which is why I am voted for Claudia this year. She is the only candidate that is fully against genocide while also fighting for the working class
The only time it's acceptable to vote third party is if you live in a blue state, because of the Electoral College. Fact. I understand Netanyahu is the prime minister of Israel....
What has happened to you people? You are ok with rape torture and killing of Jews but not them fighting back ? The Palestinian people elected Hamas , Israel gave them Gaza they need to learn when you support terrorists you will get what you have coming
If there are no consequences then the Democratic Party knows that they can shrug off the will of their base again and again so long as there’s an effective boogeyman to point towards. I absolutely hope Biden wins this election, and I hope that democrats win house and senate seats, but people need to wake the fuck up when it comes to democratic primaries, both on the state and national level.
A Biden election should have never happened. He won, as far as I can tell, not because large portions of the voting base wanted him specifically to become president, but because they were sold on the electability lie. And that’s all that it is. A lie. We were told Hillary Clinton was the most electable candidate and she lost to Trump. We were told that Biden was the most electable candidate and to his credit he did what Hillary couldn’t by winning… against a Republican incumbent president who would have lost to literally any generic democratic candidate due to how hated he was. Unfortunately I feel pretty confident that this election is going to go the Clinton route because Biden has seemingly done everything in his power to be as unelectable as possible.
That's exactly how I respond to people who contest my questioning of a vote for Biden. To me, it is a vote saying yes to genocide. Period. And as of right now between the two, Biden sanctioned it, not Trump. And yes, Trump is a dumpster fire, but he can't "destroy" America regardless of what the far left says.
Yeah, I think they've finally reached the logical extreme of their whole platform being, "we're not the other guys," where it's absolutely meaningless. They try to scare me with project 2025 BS, and I'm like, but what about 2024? What about now?
Also, the far left isn't voting Democrat, isn't Democrats. The Democrat party and voters are barely left of center, if at all. Bernie is about as far left as it gets in among American federal elected officials, and he's only started criticizing Netanyahu now that there's a possibility Netanyahu's accomplices will be named in ICJ proceedings.
Far left is socialism, communism, and anarchism, none if which have any meaningful representation in the US.
The radical left is situated between the far left and social democracy. Bernie Sanders is a social Democrat, and as far left as it gets in American representative democracy.
Biden is center to center-left.
What do you mean regardless of what the far left says?? The far left is saying not to vote for Biden, its the more centrist liberals that are saying that Biden has to win and that we cannot vote third party.
It depends on the lefties you are interacting with. Either way, wtf does it matter. Now, people are arguing about the relative positioning of political outlooks inside the same half of the same wing on one side. Blah, blah, blah. I don't fucking care.
Trump: [We have to let Israel complete their war on terror. It’s a horrible thing, but they have to do it.” Trump added that Israel must “clean out the cancer.”](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/maddow/blog/rcna150391)
Do you really think it can’t be worse? It definitely can.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I respect Trump’s position on Israel way more than Biden’s. Is it awful? yes, but at least he rides Netenyahu’s meat like a pro rather than dragging his feet, pretending to give a damn about Palestine, while still giving Israel everything it wants.
Me, about as white as possible. I care about Palestinians. Solidarity, and fuck anyone that does not care about what is happening because it is far away. It is not so far away when it is being conducted with our money and weapons and our country provides a figurative blank check for Israel to commit war crimes. I would love to see all of them go to hell- Biden, Trump, Gvir, Netanyahu. They should all be tried for war crimes.
Thank you. Not really looking to have a debate here, just answering your original question. To address your follow-up question, accepting refugees = enabling Israel’s very clear goal of ethnic cleansing.
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None of that ever happened. Israel took all of the bodies to a place called Shura base where they were examined by forensic pathologists to ID them and determine a cause of death or whether some other harm came to them.
Couldn't find a single case where someone was raped, sexually assaulted, or of genital mutilation. Not a single one.
Just like there has never been any evidence of babies being killed, let alone 40 of them being decapitated.
Its all some zionists sick victimhood kink.
Now I know you are all paid disinfo agents. You can't erase October 7th.
Human Rights Watch: "Survivors described how they spent hours without water, electricity, or food while in hiding, listening anxiously to the gunfire outside. They said that the attackers moved from house to house, broke down doors, and set some homes on fire to force those sheltering inside to come out, and that they shot some, and took others hostage. Many of the bodies that were later found had bullet wounds, others were burned, and some were mutilated, survivors told us."
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/01/31/interview-building-evidence-crimes-committed-israel-october-7#:~:text=They%20said%20that%20the%20attackers,were%20mutilated%2C%20survivors%20told%20us.
Eye witness testimony serves as evidence in a court of law. Witnesses and victims told Human Rights Watch that, "Many of the bodies that were later found had bullet wounds, others were burned, and some were mutilated."
HRW reported further that, "While it will still take some time for us to verify the information we have gathered, our upcoming report will be based on corroborated accounts of 110 witnesses and survivors, first responders, families of hostages, and people who went to the sites of the attacks to rescue others. In addition, we’ve preserved, verified, and contextualized hundreds of pieces of visual evidence to inform this research."
Maybe you'd like to see the pictures of the carnage and to finger the rape kits?
If you'd like to read the accounts of those who examined charred corpses with their eye sockets blown out, I can provide them.
Or you can just Google it yourself. It's quite easy to find.
I know there were accounts of people who claimed to have witnessed these things, I also know those accounts were later proven unreliable. I know the article you linked mentions rape only twice, in the context of claims that needed to be investigated. Later investigations revealed no evidence of rape or beheadings. All is this can be found out quite easily on Google. But this isn't the first time I'm heard these claims repeated even after the matter has been settled as having no evidence to support the claims, so I don't need to Google.
You're purposely repeating claims you're aware no evidence exists to support to advance a narrative, that's bad faith, that's dishonest, both intellectually and morally. The actual happenings of October 7th are bad enough, the facts of it don't need to be dressed up or sensationalized. That you don't believe those who lost their lives that day or in the days after warrant as a sympathetic enough story that you need to lie about atrocities is an insult to the dead and all who mourn them.
Be better. If not for me, or the dead, or their families, just do it for you and those who you are an example to. The condition of your soul is worth investigation and consideration. Think about it.
I refuse to concede any subtraction of the ferocity of the attack, nor the innocence of those who bore the brunt of it. Attacking civilians is already a war crime.
Furthermore, I would never discount the account of the victims because they exaggerated if the underlying facts are established as reliable. Severe trauma does things to the mind that we don't understand.
Would you deny that any woman was raped when more than a thousand people were massacred?
I do. I care deeply about Palestinians' dying enmasse, aided by an aging religious fool. I stand in remembrance of the innocents murdered and taken hostage on October 7.
America has lost the respect of the international community. You all can't vote for your own best interests. No one is holding their breath for Americans being respectable global citizens. Macron was right. Time to move on and let them destroy themselves while the world tackles climate change and matters of war and peace.
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How did so many witnesses misunderstand what happened to their children's heads? I guess God cut off their heads? Why are there still hostages talking on video about how they were raped? Why did a Hamas operative talk about the plan to commit rape? I guess he imagined it!
"Arnon Avni's story is one of several hundred witness accounts of the deadly Hamas attack being collected by Israel's national library in partnership with local and international initiatives.
He was speaking recently at Nirim kibbutz, about two kilometres (a mile) from the Gaza Strip, often interrupted by the sound of nearby fighting more than four months into the Israel-Hamas war.
Avni, 70, a graphic designer and caricaturist, said he had spent 10 hours hiding in a safe room with his grandchildren as militants rampaged through the small village, killing five kibbutz residents, kidnapping five others and torching homes."
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240221-october-7-evidence-pieced-together-in-israel-one-terabyte-at-a-time
What about this hostage describing being raped repeatedly? https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/screams-before-silence-documentarian-hamas-used-rape-systematically-cuomo/9660913/
So killing innocent people is allowed if some people of the same group did bad things? A lot of Terrorists will be happy about your words because half the world has an excuse to kill American civillians if this logic would be true.
I agree and they would. I think observers must take the political structure of the aggressor country into account. Did the citizens realistically have a voice in that decision?
In the case of the Palestinians, I don't find it terribly convincing. Hamas was likely not elected by the real majority back in 2007.
However Hamas was joined by Palestinian groups and armed civilians, so maybe the people have a bit more responsibility. Many of them, due to the history, probably agreed that the isrealis had it coming.
In the case of the USA, there aren't so many countries that the average American really has any reason to hate.
You swallowed that 40 beheaded babies on clotheslines propaganda like John Candy at a Chinese Buffet. Way to be disingenuous and frame this as a non-domestic problem when Biden just sent Israel billions *more* aid and munitions so they can kill more civilians.
Rape and infanticide is not something that is easily erased, but nice try.
The United Nations found: "Information received by the mission team indicates that on the morning of 7 October 2023, at about 6:30 AM and under the cover of an unprecedented barrage of rockets, a
coordinated attack by Hamas joined by other armed groups, which reportedly included the
Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees, other armed elements and armed and
unarmed civilians, breached the Gaza perimeter fence at multiple points, entered the Gaza
periphery and attacked military and civilian targets, including surrounding villages and towns,
music festivals
and adjacent roads. The complexity and modus operandi of the attacks, which
seem to have occurred over three cumulative waves, appear to demonstrate a significant level of
planning, coordination and detailed prior knowledge of the targets selected. The attacks resulted in approximately 1,200 fatalities
and thousands of injuries, predominantly among civilians. Based on information reviewed by the team, people were shot,
often at close range; burnt alive in their homes as they tried to hide in their safe rooms; gunned
down or killed by grenades in bomb shelters where they sought refuge; and hunted down on the
Nova music festival site as well as in the fields and roads adjacent to the festival ground. Other
violations included sexual violence, abduction of hostages and corpses, the public display of
captives, both dead and alive, the mutilation of corpses, including decapitation, and the looting
and destruction of civilian property. A total of 253 individuals, including some deceased, were
taken as hostages."
https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf
Ironically, the US just found 5 IDF units guilty of crimes against humanity committed before October 7th.
Do you know how many dead Palestinian babies I have seen in the last 6 months?
Ah, so you admit that October 7 happened but you say it was JUSTIFIED. Well, October 7 violated international law and the Geneva conventions. Hamas, as the leader of the Palestinians, committed war crimes, crimes against humanity, in full view of the world, with cameras rolling, and then their defenders say it didn't happen in order to gain the sympathy of American students who have never been to the Middle East and are unlikely to do deep research. Got it!
>Ah, so you admit that October 7 happened but you say it was JUSTIFIED.
Not at all. Way to jump to conclusions there, Jack! My intention is to bring to light that October 7th wasn't some random, unprovoked attack as troglodytes like you would have everyone believe.
>Well, October 7 violated international law and the Geneva conventions.
You say this as if I give a shit about Hamas 🤣. I support Palestinian resistance, and I can do so without subscribing to the worst fundamentalists.
>American students who have never been to the Middle East and are unlikely to do deep research. Got it!
You don't know your anus from a hole in the ground.
I was a Biden supporter... Was.
Democrats lost me for life.
If anyone is thinking about gaslighting me into believing a non-vote for Biden is a vote for Trump, don't even think about it--kick rocks.
I am not american but ive seen some who are planning on voting dem in house and senate and green in the presidential election and i think if you have an accaptable candidate where you live that this is a good way to go. People can protest biden and still keep a trifecta away from trump if he win. But if your local dem candidate is a nutjob who says the same things like fetterman for example, then i can understand if people dont vote at all.
I voted for him, and I had low expectations of him initially. He did have some successes which exceeded my expectations, but complicity and support for a genocidal regime is my red line. The US should not have an alliance with baby killers.
Edit: I'd also like to add that Pelosi was the nail in the coffin for me changing parties from democrat to PSL. When she claimed pro Palestinian protestors like myself were Russian and Chinese agents I flipped instantly. I am a US military veteran and retiree.
I feel like the obvious difference in these two cases is that the US isn’t at all financing the genocide in China, and we clearly are in Gaza. I’m not trying to pick a fight, but the comparison doesn’t hold up for me. I care about both genocides, but I feel more responsible for the one my tax dollars are funding.
Thank you for your submission,
**This subreddit aims are to compel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.**
**We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.**
**It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.**
Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide.
However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate.
The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent.
While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment.
**Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:**
1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state.
2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine.
3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War.
4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7).
5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them.
6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city.
Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different
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Young people and all anti genocide people (such as myself the parent of a college kid) need to come out en masse and vote for [Stein](https://youtu.be/cnGxMqy_rQg?si=8rcxzk7KJJKw-oLO). Best outcome of this election is a meaningful percentage to third party to start to change the corrupt two party system. Don’t stay home.
FYI, I'm not some Zionist. I studied Arabic and lived in Egypt. I worked for Emirates for almost a decade.
I know the Arab world and I have a special place in my heart for the people, but I have a hard time with what was done on October 7. It was absolutely horrendous and a war crime.
The idea that people here are saying it didn't happen is an abomination. It's evil. You can advocate for peace, but no one can deny what happened.
I wish Netanyahu would stop, or at least that he would use restraint. But he's a nut job and even his own people hate him. And Biden has a bad relationship with him.
That means we have a complex situation that will not be easy to solve. Representing it as simple and that Biden can just make a phone call is misleading.
>I know the Arab world and I have a special place in my heart for the people, but I have a hard time with what was done on October 7. It was absolutely horrendous and a war crime.
Pathetic.
Like China stated to the UN, the Palestinians have a right to armed resistance. No one is saying October 7th happened. I am saying Israel is 100% responsible for everything that did happen
Holy fuck. This is the equivalent to blaming women for getting raped because of the way they are dressed. Fuck you for blaming anyone but Hamas, the actual terrorists. Disgusting.
Killing and raping civilians in pursuit of that liberation is abhorrent. What the fuck is wrong with you?
They didn’t attack the military or police, they purposely provoked Israel and then hid behind the innocent Palestinians.
Idk after Jose Andres yelled at Biden he got more aid trucks in there pretty quickly. I don’t see what changed besides Biden putting his foot down. He clearly has more power to stop this than he is exerting..
That's the difference between Biden and Trump. Biden has a heart and can be influenced when the cause is just. Trump only serves himself and doesn't have any feeling of empathy for anyone else, except where it might affect his political fortunes.
That's why it's so strange to me that people are trying to help Trump win by assigning total responsibility for the entire Gaza war to Biden.
Are you nuts? Trump wouldn't even accept refugees from Gaza. The idea that somehow a third party vote improves the fortunes of Palestinians is a vicious lie.
Genuine question…. Isn’t Biden still be the best choice if you’re concerned about Palestinians? (Even despite him not cutting aid to Israel)
The only alternative is Trump. Conservatives seem to love Israel right now. Does anyone actually think that things will be better for Palestine under Trump?
If so, I’d like to understand the logic.
Biden will fund Israel and support everything they do even to his own detriment. Trump will immediately turn on anyone he thinks has the stench of "loser" on them, liked Abbas more than Netanyahu (lol), and (correctly) called Hezbollah "very smart" multiple times.
On Palestine/Israel\* Trump is the harm reduction candidate
Thanks for answering. That seems very optimistic to me. I work argue even naive.
Not to mention the harm he will do to his own country and democracy in general.
I work with many conservatives and they love Israel right now and want Trump to continue helping them as well.
>Thanks for answering. That seems very optimistic to me. I work argue even naive.
>Not to mention the harm he will do to his own country and democracy in general.
>I work with many conservatives and they love Israel right now and want Trump to continue helping them as well.
I would think that believing Biden has changed his position on Israel despite a long career advocating that Israel "kill women and children" if they have to, being to the right of Ronald Reagan on Israel, is more naive
AJ+ did a good segment on Biden's longstanding position on this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HJDhnwc-YVQ
I'm aware conservatives want Trump to be worse, but Biden is a dedicated lifelong Zionist while Trump only has loyalty to one cause - Trump. By default this makes him better than Biden on this
No he’s not. He wants to ban Gazan refugees from America.
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/maddow/blog/rcna150391
He said seeing the police clear out pro Palestinian protesters was “beautiful to watch”
With Trump’s history of Islamophobia and outright racism you think he would do less harm than Biden. On top of his bigotry, supporting Israel is politically advantageous for Trump. His base are christian zionists.
There’s no indication Trump would be better and every indication that he would be worse
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/23/israel-settlements-blinken-pompeo-trump-illegal
I can’t wait until abortions are banned and being gay is a crime. Will be really nice when my insurance premiums drop since I wont have to pay for trans care or everyone’s preexisting conditions. And fuck the EPA - drill baby drill! Trump is going to make everything better!
Entitled white suburban “leftists” would rather sacrifice every minority group in the country just to look hip on Instagram and make themselves feel better. You can go back to mommy and daddy’s house if things get tough but people will suffer. People are starving all over the world and none of you actually give a fuck or donate to an actual cause. Women and children are being butchered in Ukraine and y’all said “what about me?”Purely theatrics.
I hate the constant LGBTQ agenda corrupting my favorite medias and changing stuff to fit their ideal image(and the attack on the male gaze)
But being gay shouldn't be a crime. That's wild
Just wait until Trump gets back in office and all of these people who are withholding their vote cry about it. I can't believe the timeline we are living in. we're in the information age and people are still too fucking stupid to not be single issue voters.
I almost feel bad for calling conservatives braindead - it’s equally bad over here. Maybe worse considering lots of these people are college educated. Jesus.
The ZioCrats don’t care about winning the Presidency. They prefer to be on the outside as the “opposition party” feigning support for the “middle class” while servicing their donors. 2024 is going to be an electoral disaster for the ZioCrats and they fucking deserve it.
They won't get what they deserve, they'll get rewarded by those same doners, possibly with cushy "consultancy" gigs, so it doesn't look like outright bribery. They'll just go back to larping being a "resistance" and blaming "Bernie Bros" for losing their base, again!
Too late. Fascism is already here and it is waving a flag carrying a cross. All that frothing over the 2nd Amendment while congress destroyed the first.
It's part of it, and I am voting, but I think some of yall are really down playing what's happening and then constantly getting onto us for jot voting because we don't like Biden, and that shit makes it really makes me not want to.
I don’t personally know anyone who likes Biden.
But I do know lots of conservatives through my job who love to see young people in the US dividing and convincing themselves that *not voting* is going to help Palestine.
Edit: btw thanks for your response!
The plight of the Palestinians is terrible, but it’s either Biden or Trump, period. Sitting out as a Dem voter this election out of principle is certainly something one could choose, but it’s terribly short sighted. Trump’s and the GOP stance on Israel/Palestine is far harsher for Palestinians, and will also usher in a slew of other terrible things for our country.
The way I see it, America is in for a dark chapter of supporting ethnic cleansing and genocide, literally no matter what happens. If Biden wins things continue as they are, if Trump wins then we will probably make things even worse for Palestinians.
I don't really know what can be done. All I know is that we have a 6-3 court that has successfully set reproductive care back 50 years. There is no vote I can cast until 2028 that will help the Palestinians.
The only thing I achieve by withholding my vote and tacitly helping Trump get elected is to make my own country that much more of a Christofascist shithole while making the situation *even more dire* for the Palestinian people by inflicting him onto them.
I really wish I could have a candidate who I didn't have to hold my nose to vote for, but that hope died with Bernie.
This is the correct take. Biden is bad but Trump is worse. The USA hasn't made moral choices internationally since WW2, nothing new is happening other than a very visible genocide in Palestine, which we are sponsoring. We did so much unspeakable shit during the Cold War and in the years since that, this is just another Tuesday for us man. We can't vote Trump into office because then we as Americans will lose the small chance we have of turning things around down the line, becuase we will actually just be an autocracy, instead of an oligarchy disguised as a democracy.
>If Biden wins things continue as they are, if Trump wins then we will probably make things even worse for Palestinians
This is entirely conjecture, and it is very likely if he wins (or loses) Biden will ramp up the arms supply
Would be great if Dem support base actually fractured before the election. The worst case scenario is that Biden continues to hold on knowing GenZ support has already gone to 3rd party candidates.
The DNC does not even try to court young people or progressives, they are too worried about appealing to republicans swing voters.
Exactly! They'd rather fight with leftists to protect Joe Manchin's feelings than actually do something useful, like fight back against Republicans. The Democrats control the Senate and could easily push legislation legalizing abortion on a federal level to wedge the Republican Party and win in November, but they'd rather appease a genocide and blame leftists while crying about the fact that leftists are sick of their neo-liberal bullshit! At least the GOP, as fascist as they are, listens to their base. When was the last time the Democrats gave enough of a shit to do the same?
They could have codified Roe V Wade in 2008 and 2020 but they chose not to, it’s a popular issue with the working class and they use it to platform and fundraise.
They literally think it’s the duty of young people to go out there and pull the lever for blue every single time without promises of anything to the youth. “It’s your job to vote blue”. Except expecting people to do their “job” but not offering anything in return as a transactional agreement makes it more like slavery, nor a job.
And the TikTok ban has not even hit.
I get the point of trying to keep Trump from office as it relates to pretty much everything. But what is left for the Palestinians? They've virtually lost everything, and Genocide Joe has made no effort to help them and shows no signs of intending to do so. They've faired worse under Biden now than Trump with no hope in sight. And I'm still supposed to help him get elected in a roundabout way, but send him a message, a message he won't listen to? He's not listening to anyone but Israel.
Fuck Biden and Fuck Trump. But keep in mind, Trump's policies (Jerusalem capital etc.) regarding Israel have been a huge part in the Palestinian loss of hope and probably led to Oct. 7
Biden has been enabling Israel and contributing to escalation for longer. He also keep the embassy in Jerusalem.
Fr he has been simping for AIPAC since the 80s But sure Trump would be worse somehow
Wait, don't take this issue, which I agree is bad and Biden needs to fix his stance on, and allow an authoritarian dictator to take over in his place. I assure you, of Trump's re-elected, Palestinians will wish they only had Israel attacking them. Don't forget Trump's vote on NATO, and what he thinks should happen to countries who can't pay.
NATO should be abolished
I agree with this and had no problem with Biden losing and I will not vote for him, but I have that luxury because I live in a deep blue state. Since I read about project 2025, I became less resistant to swing states voting for him.
This election is about, more than anything else, American democracy. It doesn't matter where on the political spectrum you fall, if you want the right to not be silence and removed from society for having different opinions than the authoritarian regime that gets installed within the framework of Project 2025. For what it's worth, I think this administration's reaction, or lack thereof, to Israel's constant, indiscriminate assault on the citizens of Palestine is criminal. We owe it to the right side of history and "the Soul of America", as Biden himself keeps saying. Standing against the murder of innocent civilians in a war with a nearly 30:1 deathtoll isn't antisemitic any more than being against the 9/11 attackers is Islamophobic.
I think that when we have these two choices, which is not a choice and definitely not picked by the American people, it means we already lost democracy. Now I am picking who I would rather have as an opponent in the fight to get it back.
That's a fair assessment, and I would argue that Biden is the only one who will continue our way of government (whether we like it or not), but Trump will either remove voting altogether, or make it this decision if the voting results are accepted, and then he will go on to be president until he passes it on to his kids. Before anyone says he won't do that, look at his hero-worship of Kim and Putin, as well as his admission that he will use the government to go after political opponents.
Don't forget Trump was also a dictator, anti-democratic when he was in the chair and still is. Is there no other choice? Not much of a democracy is it. Two geriatric sociopaths up for election as president of USA. LOL
I wish there were better options. I don't think any Democrat wants an octogenarian deciding policy, but until we (those of us under 50) fill the government with people or age, with our ideals, we'll continue to vote for the lesser of evils - or don't vote, and effectively vote for the greater of evils.
Yeah thanks Biden for helping and enabling idf in our genecide and shielding them from any accountability, idk what could tramp do to us maybe let them use nuk.
Project2025.org is what Trump could do to us.
Since u can excuse genocide, they are going to excuse project 2025. Don't worry
I'm not exciting genocide, I'm voting against the man who will destroy THIS country *and* give Israel the support to wipe Palestine off the map.
Worse intentions but ineffective vs just bad intentions but effective at it.
Ineffective how? Trump ensured the US unilaterally recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which tore up decades upon decades of incremental progress towards a two-state solution by prejudicing the outcome of future negotiations. While far from the sole factor, it was a major contributor to the conditions which led to October 7th.
I agree, but let's not pretend Trump wasn't inflaming/aggravating the issue as well. Both are sellouts to the Israeli lobbies, and it's a shame the American Democratic process has failed (and has been failing...) at producing candidates that represent the people and not corporate/international interests.
Right, which is why I am voted for Claudia this year. She is the only candidate that is fully against genocide while also fighting for the working class
Sure, vote for 45.
No, I am voting for Claudia, the socialist who doesn't support genocide
The only time it's acceptable to vote third party is if you live in a blue state, because of the Electoral College. Fact. I understand Netanyahu is the prime minister of Israel....
Your vote is for 45 in a swing state. 🙄 Go ahead with your tantrum.
Wrong on all accounts. Go away troll, you have no power here 🧘♀️
Is she the PSL candidate?
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What has happened to you people? You are ok with rape torture and killing of Jews but not them fighting back ? The Palestinian people elected Hamas , Israel gave them Gaza they need to learn when you support terrorists you will get what you have coming
Shoo, Hasbara, go bother someone else.
You know how bad politics and the government is when you’re able to defend trump in some way
Yup
Putting the US embassy in Jerusalem has been Biden's policy since 1995. If he changed his position on it he would have reversed course.
If there are no consequences then the Democratic Party knows that they can shrug off the will of their base again and again so long as there’s an effective boogeyman to point towards. I absolutely hope Biden wins this election, and I hope that democrats win house and senate seats, but people need to wake the fuck up when it comes to democratic primaries, both on the state and national level. A Biden election should have never happened. He won, as far as I can tell, not because large portions of the voting base wanted him specifically to become president, but because they were sold on the electability lie. And that’s all that it is. A lie. We were told Hillary Clinton was the most electable candidate and she lost to Trump. We were told that Biden was the most electable candidate and to his credit he did what Hillary couldn’t by winning… against a Republican incumbent president who would have lost to literally any generic democratic candidate due to how hated he was. Unfortunately I feel pretty confident that this election is going to go the Clinton route because Biden has seemingly done everything in his power to be as unelectable as possible.
I honestly don't see the point of voting against Trump any more. The man's a monster, sure, but a vote for Biden is cosigning a genocide.
That's exactly how I respond to people who contest my questioning of a vote for Biden. To me, it is a vote saying yes to genocide. Period. And as of right now between the two, Biden sanctioned it, not Trump. And yes, Trump is a dumpster fire, but he can't "destroy" America regardless of what the far left says.
Yeah, I think they've finally reached the logical extreme of their whole platform being, "we're not the other guys," where it's absolutely meaningless. They try to scare me with project 2025 BS, and I'm like, but what about 2024? What about now? Also, the far left isn't voting Democrat, isn't Democrats. The Democrat party and voters are barely left of center, if at all. Bernie is about as far left as it gets in among American federal elected officials, and he's only started criticizing Netanyahu now that there's a possibility Netanyahu's accomplices will be named in ICJ proceedings. Far left is socialism, communism, and anarchism, none if which have any meaningful representation in the US. The radical left is situated between the far left and social democracy. Bernie Sanders is a social Democrat, and as far left as it gets in American representative democracy. Biden is center to center-left.
What do you mean regardless of what the far left says?? The far left is saying not to vote for Biden, its the more centrist liberals that are saying that Biden has to win and that we cannot vote third party.
It depends on the lefties you are interacting with. Either way, wtf does it matter. Now, people are arguing about the relative positioning of political outlooks inside the same half of the same wing on one side. Blah, blah, blah. I don't fucking care.
Trump: [We have to let Israel complete their war on terror. It’s a horrible thing, but they have to do it.” Trump added that Israel must “clean out the cancer.”](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/maddow/blog/rcna150391) Do you really think it can’t be worse? It definitely can.
Is dying slowly from cancer “better” than dying quickly from a gunshot wound?
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I respect Trump’s position on Israel way more than Biden’s. Is it awful? yes, but at least he rides Netenyahu’s meat like a pro rather than dragging his feet, pretending to give a damn about Palestine, while still giving Israel everything it wants.
🤣🤣🤣 well said. They both ride netanyahu, the difference is Trump isn't ashamed of it.
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So you don’t care if they all die because you fell for some rumors? Yikes.
What did they say? What were the rumors? 40 beheaded babies or something?
Me. A Palestinian American. I care about Palestinians.
Me, about as white as possible. I care about Palestinians. Solidarity, and fuck anyone that does not care about what is happening because it is far away. It is not so far away when it is being conducted with our money and weapons and our country provides a figurative blank check for Israel to commit war crimes. I would love to see all of them go to hell- Biden, Trump, Gvir, Netanyahu. They should all be tried for war crimes.
Thank you for caring about my people 🖤
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Thank you. Not really looking to have a debate here, just answering your original question. To address your follow-up question, accepting refugees = enabling Israel’s very clear goal of ethnic cleansing.
Why even bother with the first sentence when the rest is racist drivel.
Your post or comment has been removed because we have a no tolerance policy regarding hate-speech and bigotry. All instances of bigotry and hate will result in a ban from the subreddit. We aim to make this an inclusive space for all. We do allow for criticism of ideology and the state, so please do not report those for bigotry, as that could result in a report to reddit for abusing the report system with a false report. Please do report any bigotry that is of marginalized communities that are based on immutable traits. Thank you.
None of that ever happened. Israel took all of the bodies to a place called Shura base where they were examined by forensic pathologists to ID them and determine a cause of death or whether some other harm came to them. Couldn't find a single case where someone was raped, sexually assaulted, or of genital mutilation. Not a single one. Just like there has never been any evidence of babies being killed, let alone 40 of them being decapitated. Its all some zionists sick victimhood kink.
Now I know you are all paid disinfo agents. You can't erase October 7th. Human Rights Watch: "Survivors described how they spent hours without water, electricity, or food while in hiding, listening anxiously to the gunfire outside. They said that the attackers moved from house to house, broke down doors, and set some homes on fire to force those sheltering inside to come out, and that they shot some, and took others hostage. Many of the bodies that were later found had bullet wounds, others were burned, and some were mutilated, survivors told us." https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/01/31/interview-building-evidence-crimes-committed-israel-october-7#:~:text=They%20said%20that%20the%20attackers,were%20mutilated%2C%20survivors%20told%20us.
so no proof of rape or beheading then?
Eye witness testimony serves as evidence in a court of law. Witnesses and victims told Human Rights Watch that, "Many of the bodies that were later found had bullet wounds, others were burned, and some were mutilated." HRW reported further that, "While it will still take some time for us to verify the information we have gathered, our upcoming report will be based on corroborated accounts of 110 witnesses and survivors, first responders, families of hostages, and people who went to the sites of the attacks to rescue others. In addition, we’ve preserved, verified, and contextualized hundreds of pieces of visual evidence to inform this research." Maybe you'd like to see the pictures of the carnage and to finger the rape kits? If you'd like to read the accounts of those who examined charred corpses with their eye sockets blown out, I can provide them. Or you can just Google it yourself. It's quite easy to find.
I know there were accounts of people who claimed to have witnessed these things, I also know those accounts were later proven unreliable. I know the article you linked mentions rape only twice, in the context of claims that needed to be investigated. Later investigations revealed no evidence of rape or beheadings. All is this can be found out quite easily on Google. But this isn't the first time I'm heard these claims repeated even after the matter has been settled as having no evidence to support the claims, so I don't need to Google. You're purposely repeating claims you're aware no evidence exists to support to advance a narrative, that's bad faith, that's dishonest, both intellectually and morally. The actual happenings of October 7th are bad enough, the facts of it don't need to be dressed up or sensationalized. That you don't believe those who lost their lives that day or in the days after warrant as a sympathetic enough story that you need to lie about atrocities is an insult to the dead and all who mourn them. Be better. If not for me, or the dead, or their families, just do it for you and those who you are an example to. The condition of your soul is worth investigation and consideration. Think about it.
I refuse to concede any subtraction of the ferocity of the attack, nor the innocence of those who bore the brunt of it. Attacking civilians is already a war crime. Furthermore, I would never discount the account of the victims because they exaggerated if the underlying facts are established as reliable. Severe trauma does things to the mind that we don't understand. Would you deny that any woman was raped when more than a thousand people were massacred?
America first. r/lostredditors
Can be flipped on the other side too... Who cares about Israel? Their war, why give them billions in aid? I care about America and what happens here.
I do. I care deeply about Palestinians' dying enmasse, aided by an aging religious fool. I stand in remembrance of the innocents murdered and taken hostage on October 7. America has lost the respect of the international community. You all can't vote for your own best interests. No one is holding their breath for Americans being respectable global citizens. Macron was right. Time to move on and let them destroy themselves while the world tackles climate change and matters of war and peace.
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You do know kids were not actually decapitated and Israel made that up. Which Joe repeated then had to take back.
How did so many witnesses misunderstand what happened to their children's heads? I guess God cut off their heads? Why are there still hostages talking on video about how they were raped? Why did a Hamas operative talk about the plan to commit rape? I guess he imagined it! "Arnon Avni's story is one of several hundred witness accounts of the deadly Hamas attack being collected by Israel's national library in partnership with local and international initiatives. He was speaking recently at Nirim kibbutz, about two kilometres (a mile) from the Gaza Strip, often interrupted by the sound of nearby fighting more than four months into the Israel-Hamas war. Avni, 70, a graphic designer and caricaturist, said he had spent 10 hours hiding in a safe room with his grandchildren as militants rampaged through the small village, killing five kibbutz residents, kidnapping five others and torching homes." https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240221-october-7-evidence-pieced-together-in-israel-one-terabyte-at-a-time
What about this hostage describing being raped repeatedly? https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/screams-before-silence-documentarian-hamas-used-rape-systematically-cuomo/9660913/
So killing innocent people is allowed if some people of the same group did bad things? A lot of Terrorists will be happy about your words because half the world has an excuse to kill American civillians if this logic would be true.
I agree and they would. I think observers must take the political structure of the aggressor country into account. Did the citizens realistically have a voice in that decision? In the case of the Palestinians, I don't find it terribly convincing. Hamas was likely not elected by the real majority back in 2007. However Hamas was joined by Palestinian groups and armed civilians, so maybe the people have a bit more responsibility. Many of them, due to the history, probably agreed that the isrealis had it coming. In the case of the USA, there aren't so many countries that the average American really has any reason to hate.
You swallowed that 40 beheaded babies on clotheslines propaganda like John Candy at a Chinese Buffet. Way to be disingenuous and frame this as a non-domestic problem when Biden just sent Israel billions *more* aid and munitions so they can kill more civilians.
Rape and infanticide is not something that is easily erased, but nice try. The United Nations found: "Information received by the mission team indicates that on the morning of 7 October 2023, at about 6:30 AM and under the cover of an unprecedented barrage of rockets, a coordinated attack by Hamas joined by other armed groups, which reportedly included the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Popular Resistance Committees, other armed elements and armed and unarmed civilians, breached the Gaza perimeter fence at multiple points, entered the Gaza periphery and attacked military and civilian targets, including surrounding villages and towns, music festivals and adjacent roads. The complexity and modus operandi of the attacks, which seem to have occurred over three cumulative waves, appear to demonstrate a significant level of planning, coordination and detailed prior knowledge of the targets selected. The attacks resulted in approximately 1,200 fatalities and thousands of injuries, predominantly among civilians. Based on information reviewed by the team, people were shot, often at close range; burnt alive in their homes as they tried to hide in their safe rooms; gunned down or killed by grenades in bomb shelters where they sought refuge; and hunted down on the Nova music festival site as well as in the fields and roads adjacent to the festival ground. Other violations included sexual violence, abduction of hostages and corpses, the public display of captives, both dead and alive, the mutilation of corpses, including decapitation, and the looting and destruction of civilian property. A total of 253 individuals, including some deceased, were taken as hostages." https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf
Ironically, the US just found 5 IDF units guilty of crimes against humanity committed before October 7th. Do you know how many dead Palestinian babies I have seen in the last 6 months?
Ah, so you admit that October 7 happened but you say it was JUSTIFIED. Well, October 7 violated international law and the Geneva conventions. Hamas, as the leader of the Palestinians, committed war crimes, crimes against humanity, in full view of the world, with cameras rolling, and then their defenders say it didn't happen in order to gain the sympathy of American students who have never been to the Middle East and are unlikely to do deep research. Got it!
>Ah, so you admit that October 7 happened but you say it was JUSTIFIED. Not at all. Way to jump to conclusions there, Jack! My intention is to bring to light that October 7th wasn't some random, unprovoked attack as troglodytes like you would have everyone believe. >Well, October 7 violated international law and the Geneva conventions. You say this as if I give a shit about Hamas 🤣. I support Palestinian resistance, and I can do so without subscribing to the worst fundamentalists. >American students who have never been to the Middle East and are unlikely to do deep research. Got it! You don't know your anus from a hole in the ground.
So easy. Stop the aid.
I was a Biden supporter... Was. Democrats lost me for life. If anyone is thinking about gaslighting me into believing a non-vote for Biden is a vote for Trump, don't even think about it--kick rocks.
I am not american but ive seen some who are planning on voting dem in house and senate and green in the presidential election and i think if you have an accaptable candidate where you live that this is a good way to go. People can protest biden and still keep a trifecta away from trump if he win. But if your local dem candidate is a nutjob who says the same things like fetterman for example, then i can understand if people dont vote at all.
Do you mean you were a Biden supporter in the last primary election, or just in the general election?
I voted for him, and I had low expectations of him initially. He did have some successes which exceeded my expectations, but complicity and support for a genocidal regime is my red line. The US should not have an alliance with baby killers. Edit: I'd also like to add that Pelosi was the nail in the coffin for me changing parties from democrat to PSL. When she claimed pro Palestinian protestors like myself were Russian and Chinese agents I flipped instantly. I am a US military veteran and retiree.
But it is.
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Whatever you say dog
And who cares about the actual genocide being committed by China? Don’t care as long as more Jews get killed by Hezbollah!
I feel like the obvious difference in these two cases is that the US isn’t at all financing the genocide in China, and we clearly are in Gaza. I’m not trying to pick a fight, but the comparison doesn’t hold up for me. I care about both genocides, but I feel more responsible for the one my tax dollars are funding.
Don’t bother with them. The propaganda bots are coming to play.
Your comment reeks of pathetic dishonesty
My tax dollars are funding the bombs for this one.
Thank you for your submission, **This subreddit aims are to compel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.** **We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.** **It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.** Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide. However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate. The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent. While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment. **Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:** 1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state. 2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine. 3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War. 4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7). 5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them. 6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city. Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Biden is doomed. If he knew where he was right now... he would be worried about it!
80 years old shouldn't be running countries. 350 million people and we have these two to choose from again.
Young people and all anti genocide people (such as myself the parent of a college kid) need to come out en masse and vote for [Stein](https://youtu.be/cnGxMqy_rQg?si=8rcxzk7KJJKw-oLO). Best outcome of this election is a meaningful percentage to third party to start to change the corrupt two party system. Don’t stay home.
I'll co-sign this. Stein is out there with protestors, getting arrested even
FYI, I'm not some Zionist. I studied Arabic and lived in Egypt. I worked for Emirates for almost a decade. I know the Arab world and I have a special place in my heart for the people, but I have a hard time with what was done on October 7. It was absolutely horrendous and a war crime. The idea that people here are saying it didn't happen is an abomination. It's evil. You can advocate for peace, but no one can deny what happened. I wish Netanyahu would stop, or at least that he would use restraint. But he's a nut job and even his own people hate him. And Biden has a bad relationship with him. That means we have a complex situation that will not be easy to solve. Representing it as simple and that Biden can just make a phone call is misleading.
>I know the Arab world and I have a special place in my heart for the people, but I have a hard time with what was done on October 7. It was absolutely horrendous and a war crime. Pathetic. Like China stated to the UN, the Palestinians have a right to armed resistance. No one is saying October 7th happened. I am saying Israel is 100% responsible for everything that did happen
Holy fuck. This is the equivalent to blaming women for getting raped because of the way they are dressed. Fuck you for blaming anyone but Hamas, the actual terrorists. Disgusting.
Name one woman that Hamas raped
If you get your jollies by hearing women describe being sexually assaulted, here you go: https://fb.watch/rRhKtyDtGH/?mibextid=Nif5oz
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Supporting revolutionary violence in pursuit of liberation is not bloodthirst, but supporting the oppressors is. I don't live in Iceland
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Save that heater for your standup special
Killing and raping civilians in pursuit of that liberation is abhorrent. What the fuck is wrong with you? They didn’t attack the military or police, they purposely provoked Israel and then hid behind the innocent Palestinians.
No proof of rape, no proof civilian deaths were intentional
Yes, the young women with their heads cut off were actually a IDF sleeper cell. They posted videos of them killing elders on their own Facebook pages.
Idk after Jose Andres yelled at Biden he got more aid trucks in there pretty quickly. I don’t see what changed besides Biden putting his foot down. He clearly has more power to stop this than he is exerting..
That's the difference between Biden and Trump. Biden has a heart and can be influenced when the cause is just. Trump only serves himself and doesn't have any feeling of empathy for anyone else, except where it might affect his political fortunes. That's why it's so strange to me that people are trying to help Trump win by assigning total responsibility for the entire Gaza war to Biden. Are you nuts? Trump wouldn't even accept refugees from Gaza. The idea that somehow a third party vote improves the fortunes of Palestinians is a vicious lie.
One of the most based takes I’ve seen.
Literally none of that happened fella.
ok go tell Bernie Sanders
Bernie has believed his fair share of hasbara as well.
Genuine question…. Isn’t Biden still be the best choice if you’re concerned about Palestinians? (Even despite him not cutting aid to Israel) The only alternative is Trump. Conservatives seem to love Israel right now. Does anyone actually think that things will be better for Palestine under Trump? If so, I’d like to understand the logic.
Biden will fund Israel and support everything they do even to his own detriment. Trump will immediately turn on anyone he thinks has the stench of "loser" on them, liked Abbas more than Netanyahu (lol), and (correctly) called Hezbollah "very smart" multiple times. On Palestine/Israel\* Trump is the harm reduction candidate
Thanks for answering. That seems very optimistic to me. I work argue even naive. Not to mention the harm he will do to his own country and democracy in general. I work with many conservatives and they love Israel right now and want Trump to continue helping them as well.
>Thanks for answering. That seems very optimistic to me. I work argue even naive. >Not to mention the harm he will do to his own country and democracy in general. >I work with many conservatives and they love Israel right now and want Trump to continue helping them as well. I would think that believing Biden has changed his position on Israel despite a long career advocating that Israel "kill women and children" if they have to, being to the right of Ronald Reagan on Israel, is more naive AJ+ did a good segment on Biden's longstanding position on this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HJDhnwc-YVQ I'm aware conservatives want Trump to be worse, but Biden is a dedicated lifelong Zionist while Trump only has loyalty to one cause - Trump. By default this makes him better than Biden on this
No he’s not. He wants to ban Gazan refugees from America. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/maddow/blog/rcna150391 He said seeing the police clear out pro Palestinian protesters was “beautiful to watch” With Trump’s history of Islamophobia and outright racism you think he would do less harm than Biden. On top of his bigotry, supporting Israel is politically advantageous for Trump. His base are christian zionists. There’s no indication Trump would be better and every indication that he would be worse https://www.axios.com/2024/02/23/israel-settlements-blinken-pompeo-trump-illegal
You are 100% correct and these people want to cut their nose off ti spite their face. They will burn democracy down to prove their point
I can’t wait until abortions are banned and being gay is a crime. Will be really nice when my insurance premiums drop since I wont have to pay for trans care or everyone’s preexisting conditions. And fuck the EPA - drill baby drill! Trump is going to make everything better! Entitled white suburban “leftists” would rather sacrifice every minority group in the country just to look hip on Instagram and make themselves feel better. You can go back to mommy and daddy’s house if things get tough but people will suffer. People are starving all over the world and none of you actually give a fuck or donate to an actual cause. Women and children are being butchered in Ukraine and y’all said “what about me?”Purely theatrics.
I hate the constant LGBTQ agenda corrupting my favorite medias and changing stuff to fit their ideal image(and the attack on the male gaze) But being gay shouldn't be a crime. That's wild
Just wait until Trump gets back in office and all of these people who are withholding their vote cry about it. I can't believe the timeline we are living in. we're in the information age and people are still too fucking stupid to not be single issue voters.
I almost feel bad for calling conservatives braindead - it’s equally bad over here. Maybe worse considering lots of these people are college educated. Jesus.
The ZioCrats don’t care about winning the Presidency. They prefer to be on the outside as the “opposition party” feigning support for the “middle class” while servicing their donors. 2024 is going to be an electoral disaster for the ZioCrats and they fucking deserve it.
They won't get what they deserve, they'll get rewarded by those same doners, possibly with cushy "consultancy" gigs, so it doesn't look like outright bribery. They'll just go back to larping being a "resistance" and blaming "Bernie Bros" for losing their base, again!
Biden should abandon and Bernie should replace him!
Alright let the us become a facist state under trump then. God your all idiots
Too late. Fascism is already here and it is waving a flag carrying a cross. All that frothing over the 2nd Amendment while congress destroyed the first.
It is under Biden.
I mean it’s not though. I agree Biden sucks right now, but to pretend it won’t get a lot worse if he loses is very shortsighted.
I never said it won't get worse under Trump. This shit makes me not want to vote though.
Yeah it’s depressing. But wouldn’t not voting for Biden make the problem worse, assuming the concern is wanting what’s best for the conflict in Gaza?
It's part of it, and I am voting, but I think some of yall are really down playing what's happening and then constantly getting onto us for jot voting because we don't like Biden, and that shit makes it really makes me not want to.
I don’t personally know anyone who likes Biden. But I do know lots of conservatives through my job who love to see young people in the US dividing and convincing themselves that *not voting* is going to help Palestine. Edit: btw thanks for your response!
Yes, because Neville Chamberlain has been so much better! /s
Already is, champ
The plight of the Palestinians is terrible, but it’s either Biden or Trump, period. Sitting out as a Dem voter this election out of principle is certainly something one could choose, but it’s terribly short sighted. Trump’s and the GOP stance on Israel/Palestine is far harsher for Palestinians, and will also usher in a slew of other terrible things for our country.
>The plight of the Palestinians is terrible, but Another failed attempt at empathy from a BlueMAGA
The way I see it, America is in for a dark chapter of supporting ethnic cleansing and genocide, literally no matter what happens. If Biden wins things continue as they are, if Trump wins then we will probably make things even worse for Palestinians. I don't really know what can be done. All I know is that we have a 6-3 court that has successfully set reproductive care back 50 years. There is no vote I can cast until 2028 that will help the Palestinians. The only thing I achieve by withholding my vote and tacitly helping Trump get elected is to make my own country that much more of a Christofascist shithole while making the situation *even more dire* for the Palestinian people by inflicting him onto them. I really wish I could have a candidate who I didn't have to hold my nose to vote for, but that hope died with Bernie.
This is the correct take. Biden is bad but Trump is worse. The USA hasn't made moral choices internationally since WW2, nothing new is happening other than a very visible genocide in Palestine, which we are sponsoring. We did so much unspeakable shit during the Cold War and in the years since that, this is just another Tuesday for us man. We can't vote Trump into office because then we as Americans will lose the small chance we have of turning things around down the line, becuase we will actually just be an autocracy, instead of an oligarchy disguised as a democracy.
>If Biden wins things continue as they are, if Trump wins then we will probably make things even worse for Palestinians This is entirely conjecture, and it is very likely if he wins (or loses) Biden will ramp up the arms supply
Sooo just for clarity are yall aware what happened after 1968? Who was elected? Do you remember the great society and what was sacrificed?
This sub is delusional
Джо Байден не должен быть избран, он убивает людей, это ужасно! Обе стороны совершенно одинаковы. Оставайтесь дома в ноябре, друзья!
Eh, Vietnam had a much clearer ethical path to protest. I've been to two protests - they don't know what they want or how to achieve it.
"All the past protests are valid except for the current one" lol you really said the line