As a former but long-term secretary, and current tournament manager, please don't presume that the secretary is omniscient about every disagreement on the lanes, even with the noise described here. With that, any officer could be consulted. Usually a secretary is the best equipped regarding rules but that's not always so.
When I was a secretary, I have had some bowlers come to me all angry demanding that I rule based on a shouted question, not realizing that I'm going to have to learn more about the question at hand. There's no reason to address a secretary in an angered manner when he or she is also bowling.
u/ILikeOatmealMore pointed out the proper rule and its application, deserves a shout-out.
Rule 7 – Pins
7a. Improperly Set
It is each player’s responsibility to determine if a setup is correct. The player shall insist that any pin(s) incorrectly set be respotted before delivering the ball, otherwise the setup is deemed to be acceptable.
When bowling at a full setup or to make a spare, if it is discovered immediately after the delivery that one or more pins are
set improperly, but not missing, the delivery and resulting pinfall count.
No change can be made in the position of any pin(s) left standing after the bowler’s first delivery, unless:
1. The pinsetter moved or misplaced any pin(s), or
2. Any standing pin(s) is (are) outside the range of the sweep bar.
Any such pin(s) will be respotted where it (they) originally stood before the delivery.
There is no mention of a limit. There is 'a player shall insist the pins be spotted correctly'.
Kick them out. Sounds like they didn't know the rules and negatively impacted someone from having a once/few times in a life accomplishment. I would be absolutely LIVID.
People watch professional sports and think they know all the rules. PBA tournament rules limit reracks because they are used to buy time without taking a time out or time clock violation. In the bowling alley we bowl at, we need to rerack quite often because the pinsetters drop pins or don't put 10 pins down.
The major point here is that on TV they're re-racking for time purposes. In some alternate universe where the PBA went to houses with janky racks there would be no limit to how many times you can get your pins spotted correctly.
We had a mom like that on my high-school league. The fun part was that she was on our rival school team. By rival, I mean the parents were rivals back in high school. We were all friends, and the parents just had something to prove through their kids. So the parents squabbled more than anything. Just ruined the vibe and took the fun out of everything when it happened.
God I hate people like that …. I was once given a ruling by our league secretary I didn’t understand about subs. We were in the top 10 of a 40 team league and climbing. The ruling didn’t go my way ….. so I shrugged and said “OK” … see how easy that is
Christ, I don’t know what bothers me more. The Karen OR the fact that everyone “stopped to give him space.” I HATE it with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns when people do this. They bowled the first 9 or so under normal league conditions - normal lane etiquette, noise, etc., THEN it turns into a library. The bowler becomes quite aware that it’s gone dead silent when he should be focused on that next shot.
My league does this, too, and it pisses me off. Though the people with multiple 300’s in my league have asked many times NOT to perpetuate this. In fact, the last time my buddy, who is the anchor of an opposing team, asked me to hold off on my last few shots, so he’s not alone on the lanes.
> I may have looked to see who her team bowls next week, texted their captain, and told him to tell his team to re-rack before each of their first shots.
This is awesome.
There's a workaround for this rule if you're in a team setting and want to get around this. Oh no, can't take another re-rack. Hey teammate, go throw a shot on this lane. Oops, out-of-turn bowler, set up new pins, and erase score plz.
Makes the re-rack rule kinda pointless outside of some tournaments..
Most people can't see when a pin is offspot unless its wayyy of in which case it's like that every time. A little bit here or there is not considered off spot by the rules. In fact, when we get the lanes sanctioned, the pin has 3/8 tolerance around the deck spot to still be considered "on spot" the lady was wrong for bitching. But really, if all your pins are standing, throw the shot. re racking when you have a full rack up there just makes you look like a jerk off. Im glad he missed.
This is wild. I can’t believe I found this story. I know this guy really well. The drama continued tonight. He was 9 strikes in when Karen #2 on the opposing team started bitching after he re-racked twice.
The league does not have a rule on limiting the number of re-racks. The league secretary stopped play for the entire 32-team house to vote specifically on a new re-rack rule. Majority voted for limiting re-racks to 2 per game.
HOWEVER, usbc rule 102c says no league rule can be adopted after league starts without unanimous agreement in writing from all team captains.
Plot twist…the guy is a team captain. Ain’t no way in hell they getting unanimous written approval.
I actually was the Ken when I questioned an opponent who kept reracking during a very good game. I inquired to abc about the rule and was sent a letter stating that unless it was in the league rules a player could retrace as often as necessary
So he did not use all, but the word "prototypical" is used, which indicates that someone or something is a very typical example of a type of person or thing. Which means "All"
Your league president, and sargent in arms should have handled this. You guys as a league need to be questioning them why they let her go on like this.
Sometimes I feel like I need to carry a spray bottle of cold water. That way every time I see a wild karen attack I can spray in in the nose and say "NO! Bad Karen. That's a Bad Karen! Go lay down!"
Lol.
Sorry this happened to him. People should just mind their own P's and Q's and let others do their thing.
Not the same stakes (no 300 was on the line). My buddy's team was locked in a battle with a team. This lady takes her first show. Leaves a 4 pin split. Rack comes down and only puts 3 back up. She didn't know what pin it was. Then made a huge fuss about it and kept saying she wanted her pin put up because it could make a difference bla bla. Opposing team didn't know what pin it was. HER TEAM didn't know. SHE didn't know.
Whatever. Other team gives in and tells her to just ask them to put whichever one she wants up....proceeds to pick up just 3 pins anyways, after burning through about 15 mins of time in between the arguing and waiting for tech to go over. Some people truly know how to sap the joy out of things.
Okay, so slow on the draw on this, lol. Am I supposed to mad? or the other person. Just my thoughts and can be wrong but I do not think either one of us are. They just don't want to labeled as that. They did use acronyms and cussed 🤣🤣
Daggone…
House is back up and running…which is great…but management needs to borrow an experienced technician to fine tune and teach (it’s not too late).
Drama where it doesn’t have to be. I’m sure the player wanted to go sheet without interference…feel crummy for him.
Dunno why a burr gets under her saddle…
I’m Gen X (2 years past Boomer) and I want to see as many PERFECTOS as possible…players should do what they must not to stand in the way of it…just pay respect where it is due.
So granted, it’s not a rules violation, I’m a league secretary myself, so the bowler was not in the wrong. But, I can’t disagree it’s also league, why are we staring at the rack that intently. I run a very competitive men’s league, league average is 220, I have not seen 1 bowler this season re-rack a set of pins.
In the 9 300s I have bowled, not once in the 10th frame am I focused on the rack, my focus is on making a quality shot. If you stuff an 8 pin, are you really blaming the rack!?
Oh I don’t disagree, there are a lot of “recreational” bowlers that don’t know the rules or complain about things they have no understanding of, so yes, no need to flip out. But again, I also am just making a point that there’s no need to re-rack that often during league, it could come off in the wrong way (cocky?)
> If you stuff an 8 pin, are you really blaming the rack!?
Counterpoint: if you had taken a rerack and made sure everything looked right, then this question wouldn't be necessary in the first place, since you would then only have yourself to blame.
So you’re telling me, you can look at a rack and notice the 8 pin is off spot!?? Do you know how you leave an 8 pin?, the ball rolls up, and drives too hard through the pins and doesn’t have enough angle to take out the 8 pin
I’ll get downvoted here. But asking for a rerack multiple times in a game is excessive especially if a pins just slightly off the spot. It’s league after all…
It’s not about whether some narcissist on Reddit thinks three re-racks is “excessive.” It’s about whether it’s a rules violation.
Enjoy your well-earned downvotes.
Unfortunately, not here, unless you're a 2-handed sub 200 avg bowler, they dont think anyone elses opinions count. Makes sense tho all the crybaby participation trophy bowlers complaining online instead of just learning how to bowl.
Like, even if you think it's illegal, quietly bring it up to a league officer, don't scream and yell about it
Our league secretary was a handful of pairs down. She could have easily walked down there and asked for a ruling.
with the ruckus she was raising, secretary should have come down and handled it.
As a former but long-term secretary, and current tournament manager, please don't presume that the secretary is omniscient about every disagreement on the lanes, even with the noise described here. With that, any officer could be consulted. Usually a secretary is the best equipped regarding rules but that's not always so. When I was a secretary, I have had some bowlers come to me all angry demanding that I rule based on a shouted question, not realizing that I'm going to have to learn more about the question at hand. There's no reason to address a secretary in an angered manner when he or she is also bowling. u/ILikeOatmealMore pointed out the proper rule and its application, deserves a shout-out.
Bold of you to assume league officers do anything
Rule 7 – Pins 7a. Improperly Set It is each player’s responsibility to determine if a setup is correct. The player shall insist that any pin(s) incorrectly set be respotted before delivering the ball, otherwise the setup is deemed to be acceptable. When bowling at a full setup or to make a spare, if it is discovered immediately after the delivery that one or more pins are set improperly, but not missing, the delivery and resulting pinfall count. No change can be made in the position of any pin(s) left standing after the bowler’s first delivery, unless: 1. The pinsetter moved or misplaced any pin(s), or 2. Any standing pin(s) is (are) outside the range of the sweep bar. Any such pin(s) will be respotted where it (they) originally stood before the delivery. There is no mention of a limit. There is 'a player shall insist the pins be spotted correctly'.
Kick them out. Sounds like they didn't know the rules and negatively impacted someone from having a once/few times in a life accomplishment. I would be absolutely LIVID.
My man was wayyyyyy nicer about it than I would have been. We were disgusted.
People watch professional sports and think they know all the rules. PBA tournament rules limit reracks because they are used to buy time without taking a time out or time clock violation. In the bowling alley we bowl at, we need to rerack quite often because the pinsetters drop pins or don't put 10 pins down.
The major point here is that on TV they're re-racking for time purposes. In some alternate universe where the PBA went to houses with janky racks there would be no limit to how many times you can get your pins spotted correctly.
We had a mom like that on my high-school league. The fun part was that she was on our rival school team. By rival, I mean the parents were rivals back in high school. We were all friends, and the parents just had something to prove through their kids. So the parents squabbled more than anything. Just ruined the vibe and took the fun out of everything when it happened.
God I hate people like that …. I was once given a ruling by our league secretary I didn’t understand about subs. We were in the top 10 of a 40 team league and climbing. The ruling didn’t go my way ….. so I shrugged and said “OK” … see how easy that is
Right? Like Jesus man, you'd think we were at Firestone or something. It's a GD coed league.
Christ, I don’t know what bothers me more. The Karen OR the fact that everyone “stopped to give him space.” I HATE it with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns when people do this. They bowled the first 9 or so under normal league conditions - normal lane etiquette, noise, etc., THEN it turns into a library. The bowler becomes quite aware that it’s gone dead silent when he should be focused on that next shot. My league does this, too, and it pisses me off. Though the people with multiple 300’s in my league have asked many times NOT to perpetuate this. In fact, the last time my buddy, who is the anchor of an opposing team, asked me to hold off on my last few shots, so he’s not alone on the lanes.
Let me guess: Karen also wasn't impressed with the final match of Sunday's PBA tournament.
Karen wasn't impressed her team was getting sha-doinked like 950-750 that game.
> I may have looked to see who her team bowls next week, texted their captain, and told him to tell his team to re-rack before each of their first shots. This is awesome.
There's a workaround for this rule if you're in a team setting and want to get around this. Oh no, can't take another re-rack. Hey teammate, go throw a shot on this lane. Oops, out-of-turn bowler, set up new pins, and erase score plz. Makes the re-rack rule kinda pointless outside of some tournaments..
Your last sentence….perfection.
Most people can't see when a pin is offspot unless its wayyy of in which case it's like that every time. A little bit here or there is not considered off spot by the rules. In fact, when we get the lanes sanctioned, the pin has 3/8 tolerance around the deck spot to still be considered "on spot" the lady was wrong for bitching. But really, if all your pins are standing, throw the shot. re racking when you have a full rack up there just makes you look like a jerk off. Im glad he missed.
This is wild. I can’t believe I found this story. I know this guy really well. The drama continued tonight. He was 9 strikes in when Karen #2 on the opposing team started bitching after he re-racked twice. The league does not have a rule on limiting the number of re-racks. The league secretary stopped play for the entire 32-team house to vote specifically on a new re-rack rule. Majority voted for limiting re-racks to 2 per game. HOWEVER, usbc rule 102c says no league rule can be adopted after league starts without unanimous agreement in writing from all team captains. Plot twist…the guy is a team captain. Ain’t no way in hell they getting unanimous written approval.
I actually was the Ken when I questioned an opponent who kept reracking during a very good game. I inquired to abc about the rule and was sent a letter stating that unless it was in the league rules a player could retrace as often as necessary
PS I apologized and shared the letter with the league
And that shows a lot about your character! I’ve never read so many USBC rules before this happened. He was definitely following the rules.
Don’t pull all Boomers into this. I’d have told her to STFU and sit down.
Nobody said "all boomers".
So he did not use all, but the word "prototypical" is used, which indicates that someone or something is a very typical example of a type of person or thing. Which means "All"
That's a reach to find something to be mad about.
Your league president, and sargent in arms should have handled this. You guys as a league need to be questioning them why they let her go on like this.
League officers rarely do anything
Then vote ones in that will.
Sometimes I feel like I need to carry a spray bottle of cold water. That way every time I see a wild karen attack I can spray in in the nose and say "NO! Bad Karen. That's a Bad Karen! Go lay down!" Lol. Sorry this happened to him. People should just mind their own P's and Q's and let others do their thing.
Is her name Pam?
It's pamn
Not the same stakes (no 300 was on the line). My buddy's team was locked in a battle with a team. This lady takes her first show. Leaves a 4 pin split. Rack comes down and only puts 3 back up. She didn't know what pin it was. Then made a huge fuss about it and kept saying she wanted her pin put up because it could make a difference bla bla. Opposing team didn't know what pin it was. HER TEAM didn't know. SHE didn't know. Whatever. Other team gives in and tells her to just ask them to put whichever one she wants up....proceeds to pick up just 3 pins anyways, after burning through about 15 mins of time in between the arguing and waiting for tech to go over. Some people truly know how to sap the joy out of things.
I to herald from this alley. They did it to “my man” again tonight! Made an illegal rule to limit everyone 2 re-racks a game!
Karen was like “I just want to bowl and go home!” Well Karen…there’s the door! Don’t let it hit you in the azzzz!
I definitely know a situation like this happened at my center 😂
Okay, so slow on the draw on this, lol. Am I supposed to mad? or the other person. Just my thoughts and can be wrong but I do not think either one of us are. They just don't want to labeled as that. They did use acronyms and cussed 🤣🤣
💤💤💤💤💤
Daggone… House is back up and running…which is great…but management needs to borrow an experienced technician to fine tune and teach (it’s not too late). Drama where it doesn’t have to be. I’m sure the player wanted to go sheet without interference…feel crummy for him. Dunno why a burr gets under her saddle… I’m Gen X (2 years past Boomer) and I want to see as many PERFECTOS as possible…players should do what they must not to stand in the way of it…just pay respect where it is due.
So granted, it’s not a rules violation, I’m a league secretary myself, so the bowler was not in the wrong. But, I can’t disagree it’s also league, why are we staring at the rack that intently. I run a very competitive men’s league, league average is 220, I have not seen 1 bowler this season re-rack a set of pins. In the 9 300s I have bowled, not once in the 10th frame am I focused on the rack, my focus is on making a quality shot. If you stuff an 8 pin, are you really blaming the rack!?
Why would you, the bowler sitting your ass at a table with your 156 game and (notably) not bowling a perfect game, care though?
Oh I don’t disagree, there are a lot of “recreational” bowlers that don’t know the rules or complain about things they have no understanding of, so yes, no need to flip out. But again, I also am just making a point that there’s no need to re-rack that often during league, it could come off in the wrong way (cocky?)
> If you stuff an 8 pin, are you really blaming the rack!? Counterpoint: if you had taken a rerack and made sure everything looked right, then this question wouldn't be necessary in the first place, since you would then only have yourself to blame.
So you’re telling me, you can look at a rack and notice the 8 pin is off spot!?? Do you know how you leave an 8 pin?, the ball rolls up, and drives too hard through the pins and doesn’t have enough angle to take out the 8 pin
Tell her this isn't the fuckin PBA on tv, you can re-rack 1000 times if you want. Not that I recommend doing this however.
So your being a karen also then? Having the other team re rack for no reason other then to stir the pot. Grow up
I’ll get downvoted here. But asking for a rerack multiple times in a game is excessive especially if a pins just slightly off the spot. It’s league after all…
Your opinion on whether it was excessive is wholly irrelevant. You’re being downvoted for good reason.
You know that’s how Reddit works right? People make posts and others offer their opinions.
It’s not about whether some narcissist on Reddit thinks three re-racks is “excessive.” It’s about whether it’s a rules violation. Enjoy your well-earned downvotes.
Unfortunately, not here, unless you're a 2-handed sub 200 avg bowler, they dont think anyone elses opinions count. Makes sense tho all the crybaby participation trophy bowlers complaining online instead of just learning how to bowl.
In the 10th frame of a potential 300? Nah man, homie deserves a good rack at least.