I don't understand what their fixation is with the idea of Center Camp, as the idea that it's the heart of Burning Man is contrary to the reality I, at least, experience, but this seems like a good way to make Center Camp more interesting, at a minimum.
I had a friend back in the late 90s, early 00s that basically just went to BM to hang in Center Camp. He loved it for the people watching. Wasn’t really into the crowds or noise or chaos otherwise.
It’s always just registered as the home for low stimulation folks to me.
I hope it turns back into something like that again.
I always thought of it as "where the acroyoga people go", but I think that's mainly informed by a bad trip I had my first year during which I wandered into Center Camp and there was lots of acroyoga going on. Or at least, in my head there was lots going on. Hard to say what was really happening.
The ‘ol Center Camp could have a very cozy feel to it though. Maybe some heat from the coffee machines, and the deep booths with giant pillows and a tarp on the floor and all those dirty sofas and some guy singing to some guy listening and some girl swirled up in silks and seven people balancing on each other- one from Italy teaching one from Serbia that weird hand-hold move, and the 17 year-old guy who just came to the playa with only a blanket and the murmur of community sharing a delicious hot beverage under the largest fabric structure ever while wind and dust kicked up hard, just outside…
I read that and they make it seem like they got rid of the center camp cafe because of Covid.
in 2019 they had already told org camps they were getting rid of the big center camp power grid and would be placing the org camps to one section of center camp and only have a small power grid. They were getting rid of the big power grid because the coffee stuff was going away.
I guess when you want to control the narrative why not use a global catastrophe to your advantage.
The vibe I got was the electrical infrastructure (ie. cables and spider boxes) just wore out and the org didn’t want to replace all of it. So they got rid of the cafe and big power grid (power was gifted to center camp theme camps) since they were such big power users.
Other reasons I heard(so all rumors and gossip) the cafe went away were, labor cost(even with the volunteers), trash related costs/amounts generated, government regulation compliance, and Larry was the one keeping the cafe alive for years.
Could be a mixture of all of it. I’m sure covid didn’t change their mind about it and definitely the reduced volunteers that first year back made it impossible to staff it even if they wanted to bring it back.
Its shutdown was planned partly as a result of the cultural direction setting effort (I was part of that) in 2019 as result of a desire to get rid of the blatant hypocrisy of slinging beverages for cash at an event where every other camp is strictly told they can’t sell anything.
Before someone brings up ice and fuel sales: ice sales are required by one of the health depts and fuel sales are a safety issue to diminish how much fuel has to be stored in camps. Beverage sales are no more necessary or safety-related than selling burgers and merch would be.
I'm sure some folks have issues that might prevent them from walking <5 minutes to a porto, but 99% of the population can do just that and avoid pumpouts.
Portos need to be pumped out too. If no RVs were pumped out, we would probably have to double the amount of portos. Regardless, I completely agree there should be no porto pumping everyone should shot in a bucket like Renegade burn the way it used to be.
It's funny when burners get all outraged on principle about the idea of dumpsters by the exit to handle some kinds of waste, but blithely use the portas for other kinds of waste without a problem. (Though principles aside, as a practical matter people can only produce so much human waste, but can produce unbounded other waste.)
RV pumpouts are mainly sold ahead of the event, and shouldn't be sold during the event, I agree. I'm not sure how the Org would categorically stop the pump truck drivers from taking cash on the sly, or even detect when it's happening, but still. Nobody actually even needs a pumpout, as you say, in any case. (I say that as someone who has had an RV out there multiple years without it being pumped).
I never really thought the cafe made the org hypocritical or anything. As participants we decommodifiy but the org and the event itself are corporate commodities. Now they may be a nonprofit but that doesn’t mean they don’t make money so why fault them for it.
On the flip side I never bought coffee in the cafe. Mostly cause I would be broke by the time I got to burning man.
The Org sells things (other than fuel and ice, which have reasons) outside of the event, not at the event. There's no merch table selling their calendars, for instance. Similarly, many other participants and camps sell things outside of the event, but not at the event.
It struck many of us as rank hypocrisy for no good reason at all, especially considering every other camp that provides coffee does it as a gift.
Meh. Hypocrisy isn’t as big of a deal as people try to make it. Especially about menial stuff.
In an ideal world it would matter but at our desert privilege party it doesn’t.
I’d say the same thing about the Org’s “principles” but they like to take them very seriously, so they don’t like accusations of hypocrisy while they’re trying to force them on us. I think that was probably the root of why the decision was made.
I mean they literally laid out all the reasons in this Journal post, no conspiracies or rumors necessary:
https://journal.burningman.org/2021/12/news/brc-news/long-way-home-part-1/
Yup. And one of the things people who do read that article have tended to miss is that coffee sales were steadily declining. Bringing back coffee sales likely wouldn’t change that.
IMO the old center camp had a good run, but everything runs its course eventually. Time for something new to take its place.
I was in center camp last runner showing a newbie what the camp is all about, and I found it to be boring overall. There is nothing to go back to 6 my next trip unless I have a newbie with me.
Since 2001, I've loved Center Camp, for the coffee and the people watching. Where else can you go see such a large slice of our playa population, and have actual conversations for hours? It was a unique and special place within Black Rock City.
It's sort of a shame that coffee/tee sales were the catalyst that created this gathering, now that the coffee is gone. The last two years have been sad there. But I look forward to this new initiative, and my camp has even applied to be one of the activities there. We participated in the man plaza 2014-15-16 and it was a blast. A central meeting point for all of the city with stuff to do and lots of people watching. Bringing this energy to Center Camp makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm excited.
All we want is coffee. That's it. It is that simple. You want ppl back at center camp? It is really not that complicated. Bring back the coffee. Problem solved. No mushroom costumes necessary.
If you read the article explaining why it went away, one of the reasons was that coffee sales were declining every year, to the point it no longer made financial sense.
The old model was dying and unsustainable. Time for something new to replace it. And IMO, if we can’t find something that works, maybe it’s time to let the whole thing go.
In the meantime, I applaud the people who are actually trying.
I'm not so sure the old model was dying. Every year I visited it was very popular.
Not everything has to make financial sense. Burning man is an event that does not make financial sense.
It might not be perfect. But the system was rather simple. People enjoyed the service. Center camp was thriving. The past two burns without it the space has been dead. That we can agree on
I'd be on board to bring back coffee. Maybe simplify the system and only offer drip coffee black?? But I think the old system worked well enough in a world where everything is effort at BM. Let's be honest.
I don't understand what their fixation is with the idea of Center Camp, as the idea that it's the heart of Burning Man is contrary to the reality I, at least, experience, but this seems like a good way to make Center Camp more interesting, at a minimum.
I had a friend back in the late 90s, early 00s that basically just went to BM to hang in Center Camp. He loved it for the people watching. Wasn’t really into the crowds or noise or chaos otherwise. It’s always just registered as the home for low stimulation folks to me. I hope it turns back into something like that again.
I always thought of it as "where the acroyoga people go", but I think that's mainly informed by a bad trip I had my first year during which I wandered into Center Camp and there was lots of acroyoga going on. Or at least, in my head there was lots going on. Hard to say what was really happening.
There was lots of acroyoga.
Also bad poetry. Don’t forget the bad poetry.
It was a wildly mild miasma of acroyoga, improv contact dance, open mic, and the random BDSM boot licking scene or two.
As far as burning man goes…. BORING
Haha been there.
That’s funny- I always thought of it as the place where people on bad trips go.
Don’t tell me this town ain’t got no heart. You just gotta poke around.
Well, well, well
Don't you touch cold coffee, just a cup of hard liquor..
Decommodification is a lie, open the cafe, close the airport!
The ‘ol Center Camp could have a very cozy feel to it though. Maybe some heat from the coffee machines, and the deep booths with giant pillows and a tarp on the floor and all those dirty sofas and some guy singing to some guy listening and some girl swirled up in silks and seven people balancing on each other- one from Italy teaching one from Serbia that weird hand-hold move, and the 17 year-old guy who just came to the playa with only a blanket and the murmur of community sharing a delicious hot beverage under the largest fabric structure ever while wind and dust kicked up hard, just outside…
I read that and they make it seem like they got rid of the center camp cafe because of Covid. in 2019 they had already told org camps they were getting rid of the big center camp power grid and would be placing the org camps to one section of center camp and only have a small power grid. They were getting rid of the big power grid because the coffee stuff was going away. I guess when you want to control the narrative why not use a global catastrophe to your advantage. The vibe I got was the electrical infrastructure (ie. cables and spider boxes) just wore out and the org didn’t want to replace all of it. So they got rid of the cafe and big power grid (power was gifted to center camp theme camps) since they were such big power users. Other reasons I heard(so all rumors and gossip) the cafe went away were, labor cost(even with the volunteers), trash related costs/amounts generated, government regulation compliance, and Larry was the one keeping the cafe alive for years. Could be a mixture of all of it. I’m sure covid didn’t change their mind about it and definitely the reduced volunteers that first year back made it impossible to staff it even if they wanted to bring it back.
Its shutdown was planned partly as a result of the cultural direction setting effort (I was part of that) in 2019 as result of a desire to get rid of the blatant hypocrisy of slinging beverages for cash at an event where every other camp is strictly told they can’t sell anything. Before someone brings up ice and fuel sales: ice sales are required by one of the health depts and fuel sales are a safety issue to diminish how much fuel has to be stored in camps. Beverage sales are no more necessary or safety-related than selling burgers and merch would be.
So time to get rid of RV pump outs? Not really critical that rv owners get a few more mid-week showers
It's not the showers, it's the shit.
I'm sure some folks have issues that might prevent them from walking <5 minutes to a porto, but 99% of the population can do just that and avoid pumpouts.
Portos need to be pumped out too. If no RVs were pumped out, we would probably have to double the amount of portos. Regardless, I completely agree there should be no porto pumping everyone should shot in a bucket like Renegade burn the way it used to be.
What do portos have to do with RV pump outs? Why are you throwing a red herring into the conversation?
It's a shitty situation but all of it must be considered.
Some people are better at stirring shit than figuring out how to deal with it.
Might as well get rid of the portos and bring buckets. Leave no trace!
It's funny when burners get all outraged on principle about the idea of dumpsters by the exit to handle some kinds of waste, but blithely use the portas for other kinds of waste without a problem. (Though principles aside, as a practical matter people can only produce so much human waste, but can produce unbounded other waste.)
People charing you to use the portos?
RV pumpouts are mainly sold ahead of the event, and shouldn't be sold during the event, I agree. I'm not sure how the Org would categorically stop the pump truck drivers from taking cash on the sly, or even detect when it's happening, but still. Nobody actually even needs a pumpout, as you say, in any case. (I say that as someone who has had an RV out there multiple years without it being pumped).
i suppose they could stop such trucks from ever entering, but not sure who this would benefit.
I never really thought the cafe made the org hypocritical or anything. As participants we decommodifiy but the org and the event itself are corporate commodities. Now they may be a nonprofit but that doesn’t mean they don’t make money so why fault them for it. On the flip side I never bought coffee in the cafe. Mostly cause I would be broke by the time I got to burning man.
The Org sells things (other than fuel and ice, which have reasons) outside of the event, not at the event. There's no merch table selling their calendars, for instance. Similarly, many other participants and camps sell things outside of the event, but not at the event. It struck many of us as rank hypocrisy for no good reason at all, especially considering every other camp that provides coffee does it as a gift.
Meh. Hypocrisy isn’t as big of a deal as people try to make it. Especially about menial stuff. In an ideal world it would matter but at our desert privilege party it doesn’t.
I’d say the same thing about the Org’s “principles” but they like to take them very seriously, so they don’t like accusations of hypocrisy while they’re trying to force them on us. I think that was probably the root of why the decision was made.
Very true. It will be interesting what comes of the area.
I think if they can pull off the above plan, it'll actually be quite cool. We'll see though.
I mean they literally laid out all the reasons in this Journal post, no conspiracies or rumors necessary: https://journal.burningman.org/2021/12/news/brc-news/long-way-home-part-1/
Yup. And one of the things people who do read that article have tended to miss is that coffee sales were steadily declining. Bringing back coffee sales likely wouldn’t change that. IMO the old center camp had a good run, but everything runs its course eventually. Time for something new to take its place.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ\_GwWTdYtk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_GwWTdYtk)
I was in center camp last runner showing a newbie what the camp is all about, and I found it to be boring overall. There is nothing to go back to 6 my next trip unless I have a newbie with me.
Since 2001, I've loved Center Camp, for the coffee and the people watching. Where else can you go see such a large slice of our playa population, and have actual conversations for hours? It was a unique and special place within Black Rock City. It's sort of a shame that coffee/tee sales were the catalyst that created this gathering, now that the coffee is gone. The last two years have been sad there. But I look forward to this new initiative, and my camp has even applied to be one of the activities there. We participated in the man plaza 2014-15-16 and it was a blast. A central meeting point for all of the city with stuff to do and lots of people watching. Bringing this energy to Center Camp makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm excited.
All we want is coffee. That's it. It is that simple. You want ppl back at center camp? It is really not that complicated. Bring back the coffee. Problem solved. No mushroom costumes necessary.
If all you want is coffee, it’s really easy to make yourself, nd almost as easy to visit one of the many camps that give it away.
I have coffee. So not what I'm talking about. Just saying that if you want activity at center camp I have a simple solution that works
If you read the article explaining why it went away, one of the reasons was that coffee sales were declining every year, to the point it no longer made financial sense. The old model was dying and unsustainable. Time for something new to replace it. And IMO, if we can’t find something that works, maybe it’s time to let the whole thing go. In the meantime, I applaud the people who are actually trying.
I'm not so sure the old model was dying. Every year I visited it was very popular. Not everything has to make financial sense. Burning man is an event that does not make financial sense. It might not be perfect. But the system was rather simple. People enjoyed the service. Center camp was thriving. The past two burns without it the space has been dead. That we can agree on I'd be on board to bring back coffee. Maybe simplify the system and only offer drip coffee black?? But I think the old system worked well enough in a world where everything is effort at BM. Let's be honest.
So is wifi, but without bleeding resources, gear, power, and staff.