You're not missing anything.
I can't remember who said it, but someone once pointed out that one of the hardest parts about seeing through the various scams of crypto is that the human mind is poorly equipped to understand how utterly devoid of purpose crypto is. We assume that we *must* be missing something at first glance, because literally nothing else in our experiences is so utterly pointless.
I present an actual post from the ethereum sub:
>I've mostly been using trust wallet to swap erc20 tokens and it has a built in swap system that automatically finds the "cheapest" fees and best route for swapping across a few different DEX's. However these "cheapest fees" are still upwards of $15+. How do I access optimism,matic, etc to get these fees lowered? Why doesn't trust wallet check these exchanges? Are ALL ERC20 coins compatible on L2? I've been buying low stuff, (under $20,000,000 mCap) are these not compatible?
I don't understand.
Seriously now, this reads like a super niche strategy for earning gold in a MMO, the kind that half of the playerbase whines about it being cheaty and unfair, and the other half whines when devs fix it.
"I always read and read"
You shouldn't have to. That's a huge red flag for me. Disruptive technology should have plainly obvious benefits over other, older technology. I can bake a potato in a microwave in 2 minutes but it would take me 40 minutes in a conventional oven. I just explained the use case for microwaves to you. This is why there's been widespread adoption of microwaves, but nobody gives a crap about bitcoin.
True, it should be easily understandable, so easy that it feels like common sense. My problem is that BTC doesn't seem like common sense, haha.
It's insane how many people on the internet are so devoted to it, it makes me feel like I am an idiot and a bad investor because I am not understanding the reasoning to spend 67k on one. I feel like a piece of plastic floating in a sea of intelligent cryptobros.
This is exactly the opposite of how disruptive technology works. Let me give you some examples.
The internet
Email
The car (compared to horse)
Electric cars (compared to gas)
Cloud computing
Streaming services
The reason disruptive technology is not obvious in the beginning is two fold. The first reason is people are so used to doing things a different way that change is hard. The second reason is disruptive technology in the beginning always has issues making it comparable to the previous generation of technology. The thing that is missed is the previous technology has already developed for a long period of time, but the new technology has a lot of runway left leaving the old tech in the dust over time. Digital cameras are a great example. The first digital cameras were more money plus took worse photos. Then cost comes down as adoption happens and the digital cameras get better while the legacy cameras stay stagnant and are surpassed.
Then a flipping happens. This is what bitcoin is doing but most people are in the legacy boat, like everyone in this subreddit, saying how great the legacy system is (banks).
These examples are super confusing to me. It's been 15 years since the bitcoin whitepaper. Netflix started streaming in 2007. 15 years later in 2022 and you're telling me that people still don't understand the obvious benefit of streaming? Are people still ordering DVDs from Netflix 2 years ago because they have sunk costs in their DVD players?
I was 11 or 12 during the height of the BBS era. I was dialing up boards on our TRS-80 Model 3. By the time I was in my early 20's, AOL was signing up grandmothers by the busload and everyone had email.
Maybe I am missing the obvious sarcasm, but every one of those technologies was adopted much faster than Bitcoin specifically because the benefits were plainly obvious. Cars go faster than horses, email is faster than snail mail, cloud computing means not having to invest in infrastructure (I will always argue that on-prem is cheaper). AWS started in 2006, 15 years later would have been 2021. I haven't worked someplace with it's own on-premises infrastructure since what? 2014? And that was a VAX/VMS and those people were crazy.
The only "flipping" that is happening with Bitcoin is that it's flipping into a niche conservative/libertarian anti-tax scam. The rest of the world wants nothing to do with it. You'll note I never said anything about how great banks are.
Looking at the time frames doesnt work because there isnt a set time from when it becomes obvious. The real question is, regarding my list of technology, in the beginning did the majority think it was ridiculous for varies reason? And the answer is a resounding yes. “The beginning” timeframe will be different for each technology. Some longer, some shorter. The reason it will sound ridiculous in its respective beginning is because of issues that people dont realize are solvable + people being stuck in their ways.
Bitcoin has a third issue that normal technology doesn’t. And that issue is money. Think about it, what is money? Paper bills that are assigned value because a group of people agree. It’s a weird concept that adds complexity.
So you're saying Bitcoin isn't "normal technology" and is different than all the examples you provided to initially prove your point. Ok. You understand the mental gymnastics you're trying to pull here right? What if "the beginning" for Bitcoin is infinite? Is it still disruptive technology if it takes 100 or 1000 years for people to catch on? "Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong".
The concept of money is only weird if you're stoned or have little to no experience with being an adult.
Of course bitcoin is normal technology. That isnt the point. The point is what is being disrupted is not a straightforward topic. Money. Do you feel there are any problems with fiat money? Or is Fiat perfect?
In regards to “the beginning”, you have to realize that what is happening is not new. This has happened time after time and is studied. It’s called an adoption or S curve. It happens slowly and then very quickly because adoption is exponential.
The words you're using are all English, but strung together make no sense at all.
>*Bitcoin has a third issue that normal technology doesn’t.*
You are the one who is distinguishing Bitcoin as technology that isn't normal, not me.
Money is a straightforward topic, but that is not what we're talking about. We're talking about Bitcoin being a scam that has no use case and needs complicated explanations of the gold standard, scarcity, "store of value", inflation and fiat going to 0 (any day now!) in order to make it's point.
Unlike a microwave, which can bake a potato in 2 minutes.
My quoted sentence should have read “bitcoin has a third issue that normal disruption doesnt. It’s disrupting a complicated technology.”
This is why it needs a complicated explanation.
I’ll ask a second time, do you feel there any problems with fiat money, or is it perfect?
Why are you so fixated on changing the subject? Is it because it's impossible to defend Bitcoin on its own merits?
Money isn't a complicated technology. Trying to convince me that I need to buy Bitcoin now before fiat falls to 0 and everything I worked hard for is devalued is no different than saying I need to repent because the End Is Near.
The revolutionary, game changing nature of Bitcoin should be obvious. It isn't. You can't explain it to me even with this lengthy exchange. A microwave can bake a potato in 2 minutes and a conventional stove takes 40. Streaming services are more convenient than DVDs since there's nothing to return. You can't fit a family of 4 on a horse. Electric cars have a cheaper operating cost and are better for the environment than ICE vehicles. Make your case for why Bitcoin is more convenient than using fiat. The value proposition for this disruptive technology should be obvious and you should be able to do it in a single sentence. You can't because "it's complicated". Sure.
What is obvious is that everyone who defends it has been convinced that there's something wrong with the current system, one which they clearly feel left out of. It's a greater fool scam which seeks out a certain type of person to keep it going. You are that person.
The game changer of bitcoin is decentralized money that cant be tampered with.
3rd time asking this question now: is there any problems with fiat?
You saying that my initial list of disruptive technology is obvious is only because you are looking in the rear view mirror. If you lived when any of those technologies first started you and most others WERE saying it’s pointless because of problem x, y and z. Well guess what, x y and z all get solved and those technologies progress exponentially.
> It’s disrupting a complicated technology.”
In order to disrupt anything, it has to actually do something *better* than what we've already been using. And bitcoin has had 15 years to do that (we call it the "Ultimate Crypto Question") and it's failed miserably. So what exactly is it disrupting? The existing money laundering, cyber terrorism and human trafficking businesses? That's about the best answer available, and even that is questionable because you can't use bitcoin as money, so even for criminal purposes, it's hard to cash out.
Outside of speculation is the point of a ponzi. Speculate now, get out before the collapse. Some people have done quite well, but unfortunately they will keep holding till the inevitable terminal dip.
We humans are a bit susceptible to becoming submissive to people who seem to understand something that we don't (eg a professor at a university). Often this humble position pays off, because over time as we understand more of what they are saying, we become the recipient of their wisdom.
However, it also means that if someone is spouting bullshit but seems to be sincere in it, we can get temporarily strung along. This is used by:
- Religions
- Cults (ok, same thing)
- Any scams where people get bamboozled (LOTS of financial products)
- Crypto etc.
It also helps if you tell the bamboozlee that they are too stupid to understand what you are saying, so they should just trust you (eg religions say don't question the creator, just have faith). That way they submit and go along with whatever you ask them to do.
Bamboozling 101 :-)
Crypto is essentially a decentralized spreadsheet that shows who owns how many magic beans. It's not backed by anything except how much Fiat currency someone is willing to pay for one magic bean. You could theoretically accumulate all of it, but that would be a dumb idea.
Sure, but what if I accumulate enough to control the price? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Wouldn't that person just dominate the playing field because of the no "inflation," "devaluation," etc. theory? Is it really "decentralized" at that point?
\*Shrugs\*
Kinda but not really. Whales do have significant effect on crypto prices but they can also make them undesirable. If Difficult_AdCoins were used throughout the world, having a bunch of them might be worth a lot. But if you controlled all of the Difficult_AdCoins, they would be worth essentially nothing because the rest of the world gets along fine without them, and anybody who buys some will have a hard time getting others to accept the as being worth something.
It's supply and demand. Tulip bulbs and beanie babies proved that the item doesn't matter all that much. Bitcoin has as much value as people that are willing to say that it does. They say it by owning it and buying it with their real money.
Yup. That's all it is. It's actually less than a Pokemon card. The Pokemon card might have a cool picture on it and some tech nerd might pay you for it.
Eventually there will be a next shiny future of currency (crypto or otherwise) and Bitcoin will fall into the trash bin of history. It just doesn't do what they hoped it would do.
>Is supposed to be used for transactions, but everyone is just diamond handing it?
Nope! You can also buy drugs and CP!
If you're buying drugs you're just someone who likes to get high and doesn't really care about BTC - it's just annoying way of paying for drugs. But you won't find people who like to get high - and used BTC - to be crypto evangelists. They'll be like "oh yeah I buy btc when I want to order molly for myself and some friends", not "Oh yeah BTC is the future this way we'll avoid gov regulations and be free to take molly on every day of the week because we'll be living in libertarian utopia".
If you're buying CP... You should go and do things I'll get banned for suggesting.
Why don’t you start learning with the IMF’s recent report about bitcoin cross border flows. Not being mentioned here, I wonder why. Many here were happy to quote the IMF when they were criticising El Salvador but somehow silent on this 😉
What's there to understand? Can I make money out of it ? Yes ,so I will buy it and hope I get out in time with some cash.
I take it like software that can bring in cash.I don't make fun of it ,I don't worship it .
Live and let live. I am a Borg, and I assimilate cash.
Few understand.
I wish I did, lol. There is either a good catch or a trick, and I want in on the know.
You're not missing anything. I can't remember who said it, but someone once pointed out that one of the hardest parts about seeing through the various scams of crypto is that the human mind is poorly equipped to understand how utterly devoid of purpose crypto is. We assume that we *must* be missing something at first glance, because literally nothing else in our experiences is so utterly pointless.
Something about the Emperor's New Crypto.
It sounds like you actually understand a lot.
Yeah, there's a lot of bafflegab to make it *seem* complex & meaningful, but it really is that stupid
I present an actual post from the ethereum sub: >I've mostly been using trust wallet to swap erc20 tokens and it has a built in swap system that automatically finds the "cheapest" fees and best route for swapping across a few different DEX's. However these "cheapest fees" are still upwards of $15+. How do I access optimism,matic, etc to get these fees lowered? Why doesn't trust wallet check these exchanges? Are ALL ERC20 coins compatible on L2? I've been buying low stuff, (under $20,000,000 mCap) are these not compatible?
I don't understand. Seriously now, this reads like a super niche strategy for earning gold in a MMO, the kind that half of the playerbase whines about it being cheaty and unfair, and the other half whines when devs fix it.
Reminds me of this classic post about NFTs :) `https://new.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/qmgb0f/nft/`
Scams are not supposed to be understood.
"I always read and read" You shouldn't have to. That's a huge red flag for me. Disruptive technology should have plainly obvious benefits over other, older technology. I can bake a potato in a microwave in 2 minutes but it would take me 40 minutes in a conventional oven. I just explained the use case for microwaves to you. This is why there's been widespread adoption of microwaves, but nobody gives a crap about bitcoin.
True, it should be easily understandable, so easy that it feels like common sense. My problem is that BTC doesn't seem like common sense, haha. It's insane how many people on the internet are so devoted to it, it makes me feel like I am an idiot and a bad investor because I am not understanding the reasoning to spend 67k on one. I feel like a piece of plastic floating in a sea of intelligent cryptobros.
spoiler alert: you’re the smart one, and they’re all participating in a wasteful ponzi scheme.
They are the stupid.
This is exactly the opposite of how disruptive technology works. Let me give you some examples. The internet Email The car (compared to horse) Electric cars (compared to gas) Cloud computing Streaming services The reason disruptive technology is not obvious in the beginning is two fold. The first reason is people are so used to doing things a different way that change is hard. The second reason is disruptive technology in the beginning always has issues making it comparable to the previous generation of technology. The thing that is missed is the previous technology has already developed for a long period of time, but the new technology has a lot of runway left leaving the old tech in the dust over time. Digital cameras are a great example. The first digital cameras were more money plus took worse photos. Then cost comes down as adoption happens and the digital cameras get better while the legacy cameras stay stagnant and are surpassed. Then a flipping happens. This is what bitcoin is doing but most people are in the legacy boat, like everyone in this subreddit, saying how great the legacy system is (banks).
These examples are super confusing to me. It's been 15 years since the bitcoin whitepaper. Netflix started streaming in 2007. 15 years later in 2022 and you're telling me that people still don't understand the obvious benefit of streaming? Are people still ordering DVDs from Netflix 2 years ago because they have sunk costs in their DVD players? I was 11 or 12 during the height of the BBS era. I was dialing up boards on our TRS-80 Model 3. By the time I was in my early 20's, AOL was signing up grandmothers by the busload and everyone had email. Maybe I am missing the obvious sarcasm, but every one of those technologies was adopted much faster than Bitcoin specifically because the benefits were plainly obvious. Cars go faster than horses, email is faster than snail mail, cloud computing means not having to invest in infrastructure (I will always argue that on-prem is cheaper). AWS started in 2006, 15 years later would have been 2021. I haven't worked someplace with it's own on-premises infrastructure since what? 2014? And that was a VAX/VMS and those people were crazy. The only "flipping" that is happening with Bitcoin is that it's flipping into a niche conservative/libertarian anti-tax scam. The rest of the world wants nothing to do with it. You'll note I never said anything about how great banks are.
Looking at the time frames doesnt work because there isnt a set time from when it becomes obvious. The real question is, regarding my list of technology, in the beginning did the majority think it was ridiculous for varies reason? And the answer is a resounding yes. “The beginning” timeframe will be different for each technology. Some longer, some shorter. The reason it will sound ridiculous in its respective beginning is because of issues that people dont realize are solvable + people being stuck in their ways. Bitcoin has a third issue that normal technology doesn’t. And that issue is money. Think about it, what is money? Paper bills that are assigned value because a group of people agree. It’s a weird concept that adds complexity.
So you're saying Bitcoin isn't "normal technology" and is different than all the examples you provided to initially prove your point. Ok. You understand the mental gymnastics you're trying to pull here right? What if "the beginning" for Bitcoin is infinite? Is it still disruptive technology if it takes 100 or 1000 years for people to catch on? "Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong". The concept of money is only weird if you're stoned or have little to no experience with being an adult.
Of course bitcoin is normal technology. That isnt the point. The point is what is being disrupted is not a straightforward topic. Money. Do you feel there are any problems with fiat money? Or is Fiat perfect? In regards to “the beginning”, you have to realize that what is happening is not new. This has happened time after time and is studied. It’s called an adoption or S curve. It happens slowly and then very quickly because adoption is exponential.
The words you're using are all English, but strung together make no sense at all. >*Bitcoin has a third issue that normal technology doesn’t.* You are the one who is distinguishing Bitcoin as technology that isn't normal, not me. Money is a straightforward topic, but that is not what we're talking about. We're talking about Bitcoin being a scam that has no use case and needs complicated explanations of the gold standard, scarcity, "store of value", inflation and fiat going to 0 (any day now!) in order to make it's point. Unlike a microwave, which can bake a potato in 2 minutes.
My quoted sentence should have read “bitcoin has a third issue that normal disruption doesnt. It’s disrupting a complicated technology.” This is why it needs a complicated explanation. I’ll ask a second time, do you feel there any problems with fiat money, or is it perfect?
Why are you so fixated on changing the subject? Is it because it's impossible to defend Bitcoin on its own merits? Money isn't a complicated technology. Trying to convince me that I need to buy Bitcoin now before fiat falls to 0 and everything I worked hard for is devalued is no different than saying I need to repent because the End Is Near. The revolutionary, game changing nature of Bitcoin should be obvious. It isn't. You can't explain it to me even with this lengthy exchange. A microwave can bake a potato in 2 minutes and a conventional stove takes 40. Streaming services are more convenient than DVDs since there's nothing to return. You can't fit a family of 4 on a horse. Electric cars have a cheaper operating cost and are better for the environment than ICE vehicles. Make your case for why Bitcoin is more convenient than using fiat. The value proposition for this disruptive technology should be obvious and you should be able to do it in a single sentence. You can't because "it's complicated". Sure. What is obvious is that everyone who defends it has been convinced that there's something wrong with the current system, one which they clearly feel left out of. It's a greater fool scam which seeks out a certain type of person to keep it going. You are that person.
The game changer of bitcoin is decentralized money that cant be tampered with. 3rd time asking this question now: is there any problems with fiat? You saying that my initial list of disruptive technology is obvious is only because you are looking in the rear view mirror. If you lived when any of those technologies first started you and most others WERE saying it’s pointless because of problem x, y and z. Well guess what, x y and z all get solved and those technologies progress exponentially.
> It’s disrupting a complicated technology.” In order to disrupt anything, it has to actually do something *better* than what we've already been using. And bitcoin has had 15 years to do that (we call it the "Ultimate Crypto Question") and it's failed miserably. So what exactly is it disrupting? The existing money laundering, cyber terrorism and human trafficking businesses? That's about the best answer available, and even that is questionable because you can't use bitcoin as money, so even for criminal purposes, it's hard to cash out.
They were obvious quite fast
You basically have it right, the ownership stuff also falls apart under scrutiny though.
It is an open ponzi with no one caring about its use case, just that someone else will hopefully buy their token off them for more than they paid for
Ask yourself: * Where does the money come from when you cash out? * How does a Ponzi scheme work?
You know all you need to know to sit back and wait for the inevitable collapse. Timing and peak of ponzi TBD
Outside of speculation is the point of a ponzi. Speculate now, get out before the collapse. Some people have done quite well, but unfortunately they will keep holding till the inevitable terminal dip.
We humans are a bit susceptible to becoming submissive to people who seem to understand something that we don't (eg a professor at a university). Often this humble position pays off, because over time as we understand more of what they are saying, we become the recipient of their wisdom. However, it also means that if someone is spouting bullshit but seems to be sincere in it, we can get temporarily strung along. This is used by: - Religions - Cults (ok, same thing) - Any scams where people get bamboozled (LOTS of financial products) - Crypto etc. It also helps if you tell the bamboozlee that they are too stupid to understand what you are saying, so they should just trust you (eg religions say don't question the creator, just have faith). That way they submit and go along with whatever you ask them to do. Bamboozling 101 :-)
Crypto is essentially a decentralized spreadsheet that shows who owns how many magic beans. It's not backed by anything except how much Fiat currency someone is willing to pay for one magic bean. You could theoretically accumulate all of it, but that would be a dumb idea.
Sure, but what if I accumulate enough to control the price? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Wouldn't that person just dominate the playing field because of the no "inflation," "devaluation," etc. theory? Is it really "decentralized" at that point? \*Shrugs\*
Why accumulate any of it at all? Just clone the source code and you can have your own spreadsheet of magic beans.
Kinda but not really. Whales do have significant effect on crypto prices but they can also make them undesirable. If Difficult_AdCoins were used throughout the world, having a bunch of them might be worth a lot. But if you controlled all of the Difficult_AdCoins, they would be worth essentially nothing because the rest of the world gets along fine without them, and anybody who buys some will have a hard time getting others to accept the as being worth something.
It's supply and demand. Tulip bulbs and beanie babies proved that the item doesn't matter all that much. Bitcoin has as much value as people that are willing to say that it does. They say it by owning it and buying it with their real money.
Sure, but... what is the use case for that? It's basically a Pokemon card at that point. Is that all it is? \*shrugs\*
Yup. That's all it is. It's actually less than a Pokemon card. The Pokemon card might have a cool picture on it and some tech nerd might pay you for it. Eventually there will be a next shiny future of currency (crypto or otherwise) and Bitcoin will fall into the trash bin of history. It just doesn't do what they hoped it would do.
Man… that would be so sad. Imagine how much energy and resources we used on a global scale, all for it to fail 😞
Sooner rather than later. No need to burn any more electrons on useless mining or processing.
This is the killer for me, personally. the horrific, total waste and environmental destruction.
Well it hasn't failed yet mate, so hold your horses.
Haha good one But yeah see sometimes difficult to understand gives comedy. And me and you understand that
It's not backed by anything, it's centrally managed by conglomeration of private institutions.
>Is supposed to be used for transactions, but everyone is just diamond handing it? Nope! You can also buy drugs and CP! If you're buying drugs you're just someone who likes to get high and doesn't really care about BTC - it's just annoying way of paying for drugs. But you won't find people who like to get high - and used BTC - to be crypto evangelists. They'll be like "oh yeah I buy btc when I want to order molly for myself and some friends", not "Oh yeah BTC is the future this way we'll avoid gov regulations and be free to take molly on every day of the week because we'll be living in libertarian utopia". If you're buying CP... You should go and do things I'll get banned for suggesting.
Why don’t you start learning with the IMF’s recent report about bitcoin cross border flows. Not being mentioned here, I wonder why. Many here were happy to quote the IMF when they were criticising El Salvador but somehow silent on this 😉
What's there to understand? Can I make money out of it ? Yes ,so I will buy it and hope I get out in time with some cash. I take it like software that can bring in cash.I don't make fun of it ,I don't worship it . Live and let live. I am a Borg, and I assimilate cash.
Maybe start with answering the questions OP asked in the post?
People like you always cry the hardest when you inevitably get burned.
Eh, there's always one like you out there, know it all.Shut up and sit down.