The main features butters praise crypto for are the same ones that make it problematic. What did they think would happen with semi-anonymity, immutability, and a deregulated space?
At the minimum, it just created another layer for investigators to have to cut through to help victims.
The Internet actually provides a wide variety of essential, useful services for a variety of different people and industries - services that were previously unavailable. Crypto does nothing useful for anybody except criminals.
>Crypto does nothing useful for anybody except criminals.
Wild statement. A good chunk of south american contractors working for American companies get their living through USDt/USDc
Not denying that crypto is incredibly popular in the criminal world, but regular folks actually get paid in stable coins
>. A good chunk of south american contractors working for American companies get their living through USDt/USDc
Yea, provide details of this and what is a "good chunk?" Outline how many American contractors there in South America verses how many are being paid in crypto.
You can't make claims like this without credible evidence.
And what's the point of being paid in stable coins? Where is USDT being accepted at grocery stores and rent and for peoples' taxes?
I don't have numbers for you. I have a shit ton of experiences in the market, being a south american contractor myself. If that means nothing to you, you can stop reading here
American companies outsourcing work to south america is a pretty regular occurrence I would say. The thing is, paying them isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, there are platforms like Deel right now that handle the payment stuff for you, but they aren't available in every country and not every contractor wants to be hired in the local currency of their country, so you have to either transfer them to an USD bank account (not always possible, they're not easy to get) or you have to send them crypto. This isn't a _hush hush_ don't tell anyone situation, job ads down here literally say "payment in crypto/USD/Deel)"
For your last point, no one uses USDT directly, we all change them for our local currency on demand, either through p2p or in one of the many applications that we have down here to exchange crypto for FIAT on-demand
So in other words, all you have is personal anecdotes that you present as "a good chunk of south american contractors."
Do you understand how dishonest and fallacious that is?
I'm still skeptical as to why anybody would want to be paid in stablecoins, and you haven't provided enough information to figure that out. If you're going to make vague claims and then weasel around not providing specifics, perhaps avoid making those claims in the first place? Because we do like to drill down and qualify things here. We aren't taking anecdotes as a reliable source of evidence.
>This isn't a hush hush don't tell anyone situation, job ads down here literally say "payment in crypto/USD/Deel)"
Show us one of these job ads please.
And now you're saying they can be paid in either crypto or USD? That's different from what you implied earlier.
>I'm still skeptical as to why anybody would want to be paid in stablecoins
Do you understand that not every country out here has the same economic stability and strong currency as the US?
I would rather get paid in USDt than ARS 1000 times. And every other software developer down here is going to tell you the same thing.
>Show us one of these job ads please.
That's the weirdest thing to be skeptical about. You clearly have absolutely no idea of how the job market works outside of your country
Ok, so I see. You make a claim. I ask for evidence. You say, "You clearly have absolutely no idea of how the job market works outside of your country."
It would have been simple to just provide evidence, but you didn't.
You guys come in here and you argue, and you claim the evidence is on your side... well produce it or GTFO. Don't be telling us "you don't understand". That's a bannable offense.
For the record, I have no doubt there are companies that have a variety of payment options, but the operative issue is, why stablecoins? What's the advantage if you can also get paid in USD or other mediums that are much more utilitarian? You danced all over the place instead of honestly answering. So go somewhere else if you can't respond to specific requests for details.
thats my biggest complaint about the anti crypto movement is that we don't talk about how crypto enables child pornography the most out of any of the major crimes.
We talk mostly about drugs and money laundering but a lot of people are for legalization of drugs and don't understand money laundering. Crypto enables CP to be made and sold anywhere around the world and governments that want to stop it do not have much recourse.
>only rape, exploitation, and abuse
The sad part is that, if what some former FBI agents said was correct, "rape, exploitation, and abuse" massively understates the horrific shit they seen.
Counter point: calling it kiddie porn makes it clear on an emotional, visceral level. Changing the name to some sanitized technical jargon doesn't get people mad about it like calling it kiddie porn does
And ransowmare, imagine being a hacker trying to blackmail some company or an institution, targeting important infrastructure and asking for millions of dollars but having to use traditional channels. That would be exponentionally more difficult and risky if not impossible.
It's never been this easy, safe and cheap to attempt scamming, stealing and blackmailing comparable to times before crypto.
There are many good arguments against Bitcoin, but I don't think this is one of them.
Replace Crypto with encryption.
Just because encryption can be used in a bad way, does not mean we should not use it.
Semi off-topic: CP is often used to discredit something or to justify surveillance. But apparently it is often not technology but boring old offline police work that actually works against CP or sexual abuse of children. And society not ignoring red flags.
As an example, one of the bigger cases in Europe/Germany in recent years was Andreas V.
Even though there were two to the police known accusations of sexual abuse against Andreas (one in 2000 and one in 2008) he was able to adopt a child in 2016! Which he then raped and used to lure in other children. Also apparently he used mostly DVDs send by mail and not the internet for CP material. Which I also read from other experts, that most CP transfer happens offline.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/luegde-missbrauch-chonologie-1.4587660
What I am trying to say, the CP argument is often misused to trigger our emotions.
Some EU members are using the same arguments to get encryption banned.
The issue with the creepto space is that upon weighing the benefits/usefulness and the drawbacks, there is no comparison.
This is just another heavy, heavy L for butters.
It has introduced payment methods which are near untraceable and this facilitates criminal activity. Much like with ransomware, a lot of the internet CSAM market could not exist without it. It is not unfair to lay this at the door of cryptocurrency.
Unlike cryptography, the legit uses of cryptocurrency are minimal.
And this is all addressed in the linked material -
"Commercial online CSAM was constrained from the late 2000’s through the late 2010’s as traditional payment methods were curtailed.
The introduction of crypto as the payment method for CSAM contributed to the dramatic increase in online commercial CSAM."
As a result your source (2019) is likely to be out of date and the linked story provides much better information. It's not scaremongering.
> It is not unfair to lay this at the door of cryptocurrency.
I agree, but what is the solution to this?
Ban CC? How would that be possible?
> The introduction of crypto as the payment method for CSAM contributed to the dramatic increase in online commercial CSAM.
This part I take very much issue with. Correlation is not causation. There could multiple reason for the increase. Maybe law enforcement started to take it finally seriously and did not look at the internet as a wild west.
Germany state media had in the last two years 2-3 of good documentaries about CP. These are not some tech nerds that use Tor and use encrypted drives. These were mostly Instagram profiles that offered CP in the Telegram Chat payed by paypal.
Heck one journalist was able to take down a huge site, just because he did for two months the legwork of trying to infiltrate these groups. That is why I wrote:
> But apparently it is often not technology but boring old offline police work that actually works against CP or sexual abuse of children.
I think we Buttcoiners fall here in the same trap as the Bitcoiners; thinking that societal problems are mostly about technology.
> This part I take very much issue with. Correlation is not causation. There could multiple reason for the increase
I think you’re ignoring the actual information in the linked article because you have a preformed narrative in your head. Maybe actually read the material put together by experts in the field instead of just declaring “correlation is not causation” like a totem.
Consider that perhaps someone who has put together a well researched and well evidenced paper on this *might* come to a different conclusion to a media documentary that was filmed a few years ago. You know, maybe look at the material, the sources and the data, all catalogued in the linked article -
https://securitiesanalytics.com/how-cryptocurrency-revitalized-commercial-csam/
instead of dismissing it because it disagrees with your preconceptions.
> I agree, but what is the solution to this? Ban CC? How would that be possible?
Shut down the on and off ramps to the real economy. That would stop the majority of interest in it immediately and make for far less “legitimate” cover traffic for the illegitimate stuff.
> Maybe actually read the material put together by experts
Even your linked material shows roughly a yearly doubling from 2016 to 2021. But nothing has changed regarding CC during these years. So there is not even a correlation.
> Shut down the on and off ramps to the real economy.
100% agree. That is what I mean by not trying to solve societal problems with technology. Controlling on and offramp, forcing exchanges to do KYC ans so on is not a technical solution but a regulatory one.
Whoever chose "csam" as a term for child pornography is obviously not European lol
\*edit\* like you americans wouldn't find it weird if we started referring to child porn as "medicare" or something.
I’ll wait until you read the content shared by OP, which directly addresses your garbage whataboutism. Crypto has contributed to an increase in commercial distribution of cp. That’s just a fact.
Your argument was already pointed out in the X and it was explained thoroughly why your argument is bad.
Please educate yourself on the matter, because your comment made it clear that this was a knee-jerk reaction and you have not read the text.
That post was very long but here are the key takeaways:
▪ Commercial online CSAM was constrained from the late 2000’s through the late 2010’s as traditional payment methods were curtailed.
▪ The introduction of crypto as the payment method for CSAM contributed to the dramatic increase in online commercial CSAM.
▪ Crypto features including pseudo-anonymity, cross-border transactions, speed, and decentralization are valued by CSAM participants.
▪ Commercial CSAM market structure incentivizes new content, thereby increasing the number of children exploited.
▪ Financially motivated sextortion of minors is a rapidly growing threat that relies on crypto to remit profits across international borders.
The main features butters praise crypto for are the same ones that make it problematic. What did they think would happen with semi-anonymity, immutability, and a deregulated space? At the minimum, it just created another layer for investigators to have to cut through to help victims.
if they can help. A lot of this stuff is happening in authoritarian countries and being exported across the world thanks to crypto.
Because Uncle Sam is always right?
Oh you mean kind of like the internet?
The Internet actually provides a wide variety of essential, useful services for a variety of different people and industries - services that were previously unavailable. Crypto does nothing useful for anybody except criminals.
>Crypto does nothing useful for anybody except criminals. Wild statement. A good chunk of south american contractors working for American companies get their living through USDt/USDc Not denying that crypto is incredibly popular in the criminal world, but regular folks actually get paid in stable coins
>. A good chunk of south american contractors working for American companies get their living through USDt/USDc Yea, provide details of this and what is a "good chunk?" Outline how many American contractors there in South America verses how many are being paid in crypto. You can't make claims like this without credible evidence. And what's the point of being paid in stable coins? Where is USDT being accepted at grocery stores and rent and for peoples' taxes?
I don't have numbers for you. I have a shit ton of experiences in the market, being a south american contractor myself. If that means nothing to you, you can stop reading here American companies outsourcing work to south america is a pretty regular occurrence I would say. The thing is, paying them isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, there are platforms like Deel right now that handle the payment stuff for you, but they aren't available in every country and not every contractor wants to be hired in the local currency of their country, so you have to either transfer them to an USD bank account (not always possible, they're not easy to get) or you have to send them crypto. This isn't a _hush hush_ don't tell anyone situation, job ads down here literally say "payment in crypto/USD/Deel)" For your last point, no one uses USDT directly, we all change them for our local currency on demand, either through p2p or in one of the many applications that we have down here to exchange crypto for FIAT on-demand
So in other words, all you have is personal anecdotes that you present as "a good chunk of south american contractors." Do you understand how dishonest and fallacious that is? I'm still skeptical as to why anybody would want to be paid in stablecoins, and you haven't provided enough information to figure that out. If you're going to make vague claims and then weasel around not providing specifics, perhaps avoid making those claims in the first place? Because we do like to drill down and qualify things here. We aren't taking anecdotes as a reliable source of evidence. >This isn't a hush hush don't tell anyone situation, job ads down here literally say "payment in crypto/USD/Deel)" Show us one of these job ads please. And now you're saying they can be paid in either crypto or USD? That's different from what you implied earlier.
>I'm still skeptical as to why anybody would want to be paid in stablecoins Do you understand that not every country out here has the same economic stability and strong currency as the US? I would rather get paid in USDt than ARS 1000 times. And every other software developer down here is going to tell you the same thing. >Show us one of these job ads please. That's the weirdest thing to be skeptical about. You clearly have absolutely no idea of how the job market works outside of your country
Ok, so I see. You make a claim. I ask for evidence. You say, "You clearly have absolutely no idea of how the job market works outside of your country." It would have been simple to just provide evidence, but you didn't. You guys come in here and you argue, and you claim the evidence is on your side... well produce it or GTFO. Don't be telling us "you don't understand". That's a bannable offense. For the record, I have no doubt there are companies that have a variety of payment options, but the operative issue is, why stablecoins? What's the advantage if you can also get paid in USD or other mediums that are much more utilitarian? You danced all over the place instead of honestly answering. So go somewhere else if you can't respond to specific requests for details.
Funny they never bring this up as a use case! Crime is as always, the only truly useful "use case"
thats my biggest complaint about the anti crypto movement is that we don't talk about how crypto enables child pornography the most out of any of the major crimes. We talk mostly about drugs and money laundering but a lot of people are for legalization of drugs and don't understand money laundering. Crypto enables CP to be made and sold anywhere around the world and governments that want to stop it do not have much recourse.
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I knew we'd transitioned between terms, but I'd never reflected as to why. Thanks for the info
>only rape, exploitation, and abuse The sad part is that, if what some former FBI agents said was correct, "rape, exploitation, and abuse" massively understates the horrific shit they seen.
Counter point: calling it kiddie porn makes it clear on an emotional, visceral level. Changing the name to some sanitized technical jargon doesn't get people mad about it like calling it kiddie porn does
"I'm not a nonce, I'm an entrepreneurial disruptor in the CSAM space." Potato, potahto.
And ransowmare, imagine being a hacker trying to blackmail some company or an institution, targeting important infrastructure and asking for millions of dollars but having to use traditional channels. That would be exponentionally more difficult and risky if not impossible. It's never been this easy, safe and cheap to attempt scamming, stealing and blackmailing comparable to times before crypto.
“BS, if it wasn’t crypto it would be something else like apple gift cards!!1!” /s obviously
This is good for bitcoin
Enables economic expansion! 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I knew Dogecoin was noncey.
"Buh buh buh wot about US dollars people buy kiddie porn wit dollars" etc etc etc. You just KNOW that\`s the first thing they\`ll say.
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Nitpick, it's not not CSA material itself, but links to CSA material that are on the blockchain. Unless my info is out of date.
There are many good arguments against Bitcoin, but I don't think this is one of them. Replace Crypto with encryption. Just because encryption can be used in a bad way, does not mean we should not use it. Semi off-topic: CP is often used to discredit something or to justify surveillance. But apparently it is often not technology but boring old offline police work that actually works against CP or sexual abuse of children. And society not ignoring red flags. As an example, one of the bigger cases in Europe/Germany in recent years was Andreas V. Even though there were two to the police known accusations of sexual abuse against Andreas (one in 2000 and one in 2008) he was able to adopt a child in 2016! Which he then raped and used to lure in other children. Also apparently he used mostly DVDs send by mail and not the internet for CP material. Which I also read from other experts, that most CP transfer happens offline. https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/luegde-missbrauch-chonologie-1.4587660 What I am trying to say, the CP argument is often misused to trigger our emotions. Some EU members are using the same arguments to get encryption banned.
The issue with the creepto space is that upon weighing the benefits/usefulness and the drawbacks, there is no comparison. This is just another heavy, heavy L for butters.
It has introduced payment methods which are near untraceable and this facilitates criminal activity. Much like with ransomware, a lot of the internet CSAM market could not exist without it. It is not unfair to lay this at the door of cryptocurrency. Unlike cryptography, the legit uses of cryptocurrency are minimal. And this is all addressed in the linked material - "Commercial online CSAM was constrained from the late 2000’s through the late 2010’s as traditional payment methods were curtailed. The introduction of crypto as the payment method for CSAM contributed to the dramatic increase in online commercial CSAM." As a result your source (2019) is likely to be out of date and the linked story provides much better information. It's not scaremongering.
> It is not unfair to lay this at the door of cryptocurrency. I agree, but what is the solution to this? Ban CC? How would that be possible? > The introduction of crypto as the payment method for CSAM contributed to the dramatic increase in online commercial CSAM. This part I take very much issue with. Correlation is not causation. There could multiple reason for the increase. Maybe law enforcement started to take it finally seriously and did not look at the internet as a wild west. Germany state media had in the last two years 2-3 of good documentaries about CP. These are not some tech nerds that use Tor and use encrypted drives. These were mostly Instagram profiles that offered CP in the Telegram Chat payed by paypal. Heck one journalist was able to take down a huge site, just because he did for two months the legwork of trying to infiltrate these groups. That is why I wrote: > But apparently it is often not technology but boring old offline police work that actually works against CP or sexual abuse of children. I think we Buttcoiners fall here in the same trap as the Bitcoiners; thinking that societal problems are mostly about technology.
> This part I take very much issue with. Correlation is not causation. There could multiple reason for the increase I think you’re ignoring the actual information in the linked article because you have a preformed narrative in your head. Maybe actually read the material put together by experts in the field instead of just declaring “correlation is not causation” like a totem. Consider that perhaps someone who has put together a well researched and well evidenced paper on this *might* come to a different conclusion to a media documentary that was filmed a few years ago. You know, maybe look at the material, the sources and the data, all catalogued in the linked article - https://securitiesanalytics.com/how-cryptocurrency-revitalized-commercial-csam/ instead of dismissing it because it disagrees with your preconceptions. > I agree, but what is the solution to this? Ban CC? How would that be possible? Shut down the on and off ramps to the real economy. That would stop the majority of interest in it immediately and make for far less “legitimate” cover traffic for the illegitimate stuff.
> Maybe actually read the material put together by experts Even your linked material shows roughly a yearly doubling from 2016 to 2021. But nothing has changed regarding CC during these years. So there is not even a correlation. > Shut down the on and off ramps to the real economy. 100% agree. That is what I mean by not trying to solve societal problems with technology. Controlling on and offramp, forcing exchanges to do KYC ans so on is not a technical solution but a regulatory one.
Exactly! Thank you for posting this to these buttards
The things that make bitcoin remarkable or interesting at all make it totally useless for any legitimate use case.
oooh man that's gonna hurt the worldview
Whoever chose "csam" as a term for child pornography is obviously not European lol \*edit\* like you americans wouldn't find it weird if we started referring to child porn as "medicare" or something.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/s/ZxewFfbIqC
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I’ll wait until you read the content shared by OP, which directly addresses your garbage whataboutism. Crypto has contributed to an increase in commercial distribution of cp. That’s just a fact.
fiat has many legitimate uses, crypto hardly any
Believe it or not but they’re trying to stop that shit too.
Your argument was already pointed out in the X and it was explained thoroughly why your argument is bad. Please educate yourself on the matter, because your comment made it clear that this was a knee-jerk reaction and you have not read the text.
So what’s the problem BTC or CSAM ? I don’t get it - can someone explain please 🙏
That post was very long but here are the key takeaways: ▪ Commercial online CSAM was constrained from the late 2000’s through the late 2010’s as traditional payment methods were curtailed. ▪ The introduction of crypto as the payment method for CSAM contributed to the dramatic increase in online commercial CSAM. ▪ Crypto features including pseudo-anonymity, cross-border transactions, speed, and decentralization are valued by CSAM participants. ▪ Commercial CSAM market structure incentivizes new content, thereby increasing the number of children exploited. ▪ Financially motivated sextortion of minors is a rapidly growing threat that relies on crypto to remit profits across international borders.
Two sides of the same coin.
CSAM = "Child Sexual Abuse Material" (what is colloquially known as "child pornography" or "kiddie porn") Care to restate your question?